Welcome everybody to the Norton Planning Board's meeting of Tuesday, May the 6th. Again, this is a hybrid public meeting, so members of the public are welcome to participate remotely or in person. To join online via Zoom, you can use the meeting ID
638-9291060. There's also a phone number if you wish to dial in directly. The meeting will also be available afterwards on cable access media cent's YouTube page. for future meetings. Please feel free to email questions for the board ahead of the meeting to Brian
Carmichael, town staff, so they can be shared with the members in advance. So, with that out of the way, we'll dive into our agenda today. And it is go does go on to a second page. So, we got a little bit to get through here. Um, I'll start out by welcoming our two
new members here for the board, Ken and Bridget. Welcome to the planning board and all of the craziness that will ensue. So we'll go into our general business here and get started. Um with a new
board, uh we have to go through uh elections of um actually we have that as item D here in terms of playing board business and policies. I think we can just dive right in here. Um and I think elections are probably the first thing that we want to cover tonight. Um, so
we'll be looking to elect a chair, vice chair, and clerk in terms of elected positions among the board. And then we have other appointed or elected positions as well. Um, and those are Brian or Paul if you want to just summarize those
specifically. Sure. Uh you also need to appoint a representative to the capital improvement committee and then um authorize u a primary and and alternate to sign payroll and uh uh warrants or bills.
Okay. Yes. So the most important role is that is signing Paul's paychecks. So and Brian um so we can go through that. I think the order of operations that makes sense is probably to start with the chair and then go down to vice chair and clerk
unless anybody has anything further. I know I've said that um and I've been serving as the chair for about the last 5 years and I said pretty uh bluntly in the last couple of meetings that I'm not interested in continuing. Um but al I'll say I am
still willing to present our two articles at town meeting if the new chair and the board would like. Um, if you say yes, I'll do it. If you say no, you get a fully built presentation I've worked on with Paul and my long prepared notes to uh do with what you will.
So, I I'd like to nominate Allan for chair. Seconded. Okay, we have a motion nomination and a second. Alan, would you accept? Yes. Okay. Are there any other nominations
for chair at this time? Okay, I guess we can do this with a voice vote here. All in favor of Allen's nomination of chair, please say I. I. I. All opposed? Abstensions. Okay. And now it's yours,
Alan. Have fun. Thank you. Any nominations for vice chair? Cam, are you willing to be vice chair? I would be if there are no other nominations. Eric, do you want to be vice chair?
Not at the moment. I nominate Tim for vice chair. Seconded. Motion and second. Voice call. All in favor? I I I
abstensions. Congrats. Okay. Any nominations for a clerk? Clerk involves signing um all the documents basically that we're not going to vote on. Yeah, I'm going to nominate
myself as clerk. Seconded. We have a motion and a second for Eric for clerk. Any other nomine any other nominations? Stop talking. No. All in favor? I
opposed extensions. Congrats, Eric. Paul, capital improvement committees. Is that what you like? So, any nominations for the member of the capital improvement committee? Paul, do you want to just say when they meet and uh what's involved, please? Well, they
um I don't they they meet more on a on a a seasonal basis when budgets coming around. So, they'll be looking at items that would qualify as a capital improvement and that's typically any item I believe over $10,000. So, certainly when we're getting into town meeting like we are
now, they're meeting to um vote. And then there are other times when a specific project could be coming along that they will meet, but uh they don't typically meet all year long. And this is a a board with nominees from all the different town boards basically
as well as straight up numbers. Correct. Any nominations? Eric, are you interested in adding this to your clerk? I'm interested. I nominate Eric.
Is there a second? Second. We have a nomination with a second. Are there any other nominations? We're good. All in favor? I posted extensions. Congrats, Eric. Thank you.
Uh and primary signer primary and alternate for yeah primary signer for it doesn't necessarily have to be the chair. It can be anyone. Correct. Correct. So it's whoever signs the payroll who signs everything basis. I'm going to do it if
nobody else wants to. Payroll is every two weeks and then everything else comes after our meetings. I might recommend not to add this to the things that you've nominated for, Eric, but if you're going to be here signing stuff anyway as a backup that as the secondary
signer, that might make sense. I'm good with that. Nominator for secondary or for primary. Actually, I can I It's fine. Take primary. So, I can I'm going to be signing stuff anyway. Take It's up to
you, Ellen, too. So, I'm violent. Unless there's no Is there a second? I'll second. All right. Motion with a second. All in favor? I opposed.
Sure. You don't want to be chair. You're taking everything else. No, no, no. You can you can run things. I I'll I'll take out the back. We need a secondary signer. I know. I'm going to need Allan as a secondary second. Any other
nominations? Right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? I opposed. Extensions. Is that our list ball for elections? Yes. So, we can do bills and warrants after the meeting.
Yes, you can. And we didn't have any minutes to approve, correct? simply wait till U. Next thing we need to do is set meeting dates. We do not have many meeting dates after this meeting. I believe we have one set for May 20th.
Correct. Everyone look at their calendar. After May 20th, we'd be looking first week in June. June 3rd or June 17th. Does anybody have a problem with that,
Mr. Chairman? Yes, sir. Would this simply be just every two weeks at 7:15 from that point? It depends unless someone has conflicts and we have to work around anyone's anything holidays and such, but generally we can stick with every two weeks. Okay. I prefer meetings not back
to back. No, no, I agree with that. Yeah, I generally try to go every two weeks, like I said, unless we have I don't know. Does town meeting become No, time meeting is not a problem. Time meeting is May 19th. May 19th. No, I'm glad for that. But that's why I
was just bringing that up cuz we could just say agree to every two weeks if everybody is available. So June 3rd and June 17th, everyone's good. I think that's a yes. Yes. Yes. Um July
July 8th and 22nd or I was going to avoid the first week of July. Does that make sense for everyone? Nobody knows what their vacation plans are. Objection. All right. So, July 8th and 22nd and do August 5th and August
19th. I'll be gone the 19th. 26th. So to make it August 5th and August 26th was that it's too far apart. I'm gone the 12th. So that's not going to work. I can get over a 3 week break. 3 week break in the middle of
August. It's only a two week break but yeah the gap. Yeah. Get over it. So let's make it August 5th and 26th. And we begin to do September 9th and
23rd. Everyone's good. We want to stop there or keep going. about one more before the holidays. We'll start with October. Worry about the holiday season
after unless that's too far out for everyone. October 7th and 21st. I'm not hearing any objections, so I just keep going. You guys want to do it in November and December or you want to hold off? No. October as far as I know. That's right.
So maybe come September fall or late the last meeting in August, we'll set the rest of the meeting. If we get all look at our calendars and realize we didn't know something that was on there, bring it up at our next meeting. I'm sure there are things that I am not
aware of throughout my calendar. I probably miss one myself. Um unless there's any objections, does it make sense Paul and Tim want to get your opinion too to take ANR12 for 19 Rock Lane and their definitive plan special permit
altogether or should you take them? So I think you have an option. Either one is fine. Anybody have any preference? We just talk about the project at once and I have no problem talking about them at the same time. They they work together.
Agree. I would agree. The first item on our agenda will be an approv 13 for 50 CL Street. Owner is Donald P. Eisenor. The applicant is Craig Sowski. Sorry, we faked you out.
Good evening. Craigowski Rim Engineering. Uh Donald Eisner, the owner of the property, and his nephew Cameron, who is looking to build on lot two are also in the audience. This is a 50 Clap Street. Uh about 20 acres of property.
We're dividing into three lots. The first lot is the existing house number 50 on Clap Street. Uh built in 1950. That's in the commercial zone. And then the second parcel would be lot 2.
Uh the state lot with 50 ft of frontage, five times the area. So we have 354,000 square ft due to the wetlands. Uh we have 305,000 contiguous upland square ft. And then the third lot would
remain in the ownership of Mr. Eisner. Um assuming we get lot two approved we'll have to go through conservation. Once we do that we'll create an easement that gets back to use of use of that land for Mr. Eisner. So, we're looking right now. We're looking to build uh get
lot two approved as building lots so that Cameron can put his house in the back in the R60 area. Can I ask a question real quick? Is that okay? Yeah. Uh you said there was frontage on the lot two. Where
is the frontage for that? Um yeah. So, did you see lot one? Do you have it on your computers or just on the screen? There. Okay. Well, I have a here. The yellow is live one and three.
Gotcha. Okay. So, the middle. Yeah. So, above. So lot one is just that rectangle in the middle with a point on top. That top lot one is uh
that area where you see zone line and R60 above a Z. That is part of lot two. Lot two has a yeah 50 ft. We're keeping 50 ft wide. It kind of looks like a panhandle. Okay. For sure.
I saw the frontage creek and I guess my first question would have been what are we talking about for access? How are we are we going to consider the car path access considering those wetlands? Yeah, there's an existing culver like I said once we uh get approval for the lot and
we go to conservation. We're going to have to build a new culver. They um tried to get access through the lots off Ruben Drive, but the owners are not interested in creating an easement through there. So, our frontage is on Clap
Street and we can bring a driveway through that 50ft opening and then cross the wetlands. We're probably crossing towards where the car path is. Correct. A big long driveway. Yeah. is, you know, it's been in the family. Uh, the
grandfather of Donald Eisler lived there, so they farmed the backland, so that is a usable usable path. It's an old car. It's an old culvert that needs to be upgraded. How How about how wide is that? Do you know? Well, there it's only about 8 ft, but we'll have to go wider in order to get, you know, the
concrete trucks. We'll have to get back together to build the house and so forth. So, but as far as conservation, as far as I'm aware, if you have buildable lot towards the radar lot, you have to cross conservation way to get there. You do have the right to cross conservation to get to the buildable
lot. Is that am I saying that correctly? That is correct. I mean, they could again we the car path is existing. It isn't a wetland that's filling. We'd just be re rebuilding the the culbert. So I guess for the
information for the two newer members and for everyone when we're looking at an ANR and ANR stands for approval not required. We're just dictating or approving that he's dividing this land into these two lots. And the two real standards that we're looking for is a do they have the
proper frontage in the zone in our zoning. I believe is our 6040 ft. You need 40. Is it 50 for an estate lot? It's 150 for a regular lot or conventional lots. when when you have a
a parcel that's excessively large that's out back behind it, there is a a waiver sort of thing in our bylaw for 50T as long as it's not 50 foot after one after another. And then the other the other uh thing we're looking
at is access or vital access to the uh can you actually access the buildable lot that you're trying to make a lot. Those are our the two standards for an ANR. Unless Paul, you have a better
explanation than I just made. No, it's just what Craig was saying is that the the bylaw or Steve said that the bylaw does make exceptions for these large lots with um narrow frontage as long as they meet the certain standard. Unfortunately, can't access my the
bylaw, but it's five times the area that's in the underlying zone. So, 60,000* 5, we need 300,000. We have 354,000. Seems like you did the math. So, the constructive frontage is wouldbe
considered street. Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. Um, it's a question for the applicant. Are we future thing? Are you potentially intending for whatever you build for access to lot two to turn into a common
driveway for lot three? Not a common driveway. We're not It's a non-building lot. It has no frontage. Lot three. Okay. So, it would be access an easement through the property, but it's not access for
buildable lot. Okay. Board members. Any other questions? Eric, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Um, the access you said that was be right now it's a cover. Yes. Okay. So, is the cover doing any drainage or the cover usually goes
down that up? So, well, a culvert is just a there's a stream that runs through this. So, the culver is just in this case built in the 1950s, it's all out of stone. Okay. So it it isn't it allows it covers the the stream. It
allows Oh, make sure I understand. So I thought you meant that you were going to go up a culvert and use that. The culbert passes under the road that you No, the No, the Well, the culver holds up the road, right? So it's kind of like a stream passes under is what I'm
saying. Stream passes under. Yeah. So we're just going to have to uh improve it. It was built out of stone. We would use box gulp out of concrete. Yeah. No, I've got enough of that. Thanks. Any other
questions? If not, I'd be looking for a motion to approve the ANR. Motion to approve the ANR. Mr. Chair, I believe that's a motion to endorse for an ANR. Thank you, sir. Motion to endorse for the ANR. Seconded. We have a motion and a second.
All in favor? I post abstensions. Okay. Thank you. Pick it up sometimes. Thank you. So for ANRS, we'll put our own
signatures on the signature block on the copies Paul has and then they'll go to the registry. preferably before we leave. Don't forget next in our public hearing list is site plan SPR1 for 361 rear old
colony road. This applicant is requesting a continuence to the May 20th meeting. So the chair would entertain a motion as such. We allow continue it may
second by Steve. All in favor? I opposed extensions. Next thing on the public hearing agenda will be structural permit SP16 for one Dean Street. This applicant has also requested a continuence to the
May 20th meeting. Motion we continue to May 20th. Before we motion, Mr. Chair Paul, did they give a reason for why they want to continue since they still haven't they've continued this would be their
third continuence and they haven't come for us at all. Right. and they haven't remember this is one where they had uh proposed triplexes in R60 which is not allowed. So they're needing to revamp the plan. So keeping an eye on the deadline
because we have to keep an eye on on constructive approval as well. So but they haven't come back with a proposal revision to the plan yet. So what's our time frame look like Paul? It's it's getting close. We have their
continuences in writing. So, I think we're fine. But, um, does it matter that we didn't open the meeting or it doesn't matter at all? That makes it worse because we haven't heard them at all. So, May, constructive approval basically means by not hearing them, they get to
do what they want basically. So, by the May 20th meeting, if we don't hear from them, do we want to communicate to them that we're going to open the hearing and take action? If you need a motion, I'd be all I'd be in favor of that, too. You need a motion.
I don't think so. I think we just understand that that's our as long as we all agree. I think everybody agree. We got to put a step back to Can I also mention like again it was said that they're asking they're requesting something that's not allowed. Why do we have to enter
Japan? Do like does it really have to go to our boat? It should just be my assumption would be they're trying to make that something that is allowed. If they're not, then they're wasting a whole lot of time for that would be my take. We've given them this a little more time. They need to in that
time come back with something is allowed or we're probably going to let nature take its course here with us. So Paul telling a continuence to the May 20th meeting, correct? I'll enter a motion as such. I think we
already have one on the floor. All right. Seconded made by Rob, seconded by Steve. All in favor? I posted. Next on our agenda will be site plan SPR15, which is 0 South Washington
Street. Owner is Chico LLC. Applicant is Legacy Engineering. for our 5,000 ft² storage building. It's also a project we've seen a couple of times. Um, and they're changing what we approved. We
approved a 4,000 ft building with some parking, I believe, in 2023. Perhaps they're coming back with a,000 ft bigger building. They moved the building around on the lot a little bit and uh changed the parking and the applicants are on Zoom.
Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Dan American with Legacy Engineering. Uh can you hear me fine? Yes, Dan. and I put up for you the plan that you approved at the end of 2023 which was for a storage facility
for uh northeast shoring. Uh it involved as you mentioned a 4,000 ft building here on the right side of the property with essentially an open storage yard um for their materials and equipment which they're a shoring company. So, it's road
plates, it's trench boxes, it's shoring equipment, things of that nature. The modification request, and we've reproduced the plan here, uh, slightly different scale, but essentially the modification is to take
the building and to shift it from the right front right corner of the lot here and shift it over to the left and increase it from 4,000 ft to 5,000 ft. As part of that, we uh revised the parking configuration. This area here and this parking area here would be
paved. We reduced it to seven spaces which is what's required uh under zoning for the use. We've also reconfigured the outside storage area and redesigned the storm water management system which is underneath the storage area. uh we've
appeared before conservation conservation commission has engaged a peerreview consultant and that consultant has reviewed and approved the storm water management system and and the plan that I uploaded today and I think we got today reflected some minor changes to that design to accommodate
the um comments of the pure view consultant. Beyond that, there's really not a lot of differences between you approved and and this. We have provided you with all of the uh appropriate uh information. We
have a a landscape buffer strip across the front as required in the bylaw. We also have a lighting plan. The lighting consists of three light bulbs back in the storage yard just to provide some generic lighting in there and then four
wall packs along the building um on the two on the front, one on this and one on each side. And they provide for basically minimal lighting for the facility. So there's not a lot of change. It's essentially just a relocation of the building. Slightly larger building and a um a somewhat
larger storage yard. And we are uh pretty well set with the conservation commission. They've just held this open so that we could appear before you this evening and and make sure that there aren't any other plan changes that you might want for this. And and that's about it. Happy to answer any questions
you have. Mr. Chairman, I I just want to make sure I don't think I see any wetlands concerns anywhere in this plan. Is that correct observation or my we're reviewing the storm water management reviewing storm water but
there's no actual existing wetland issues or anything right there are wetlands there so this whole area on the left side of the plan is the wetland area over this way yeah that's really small yeah I'm sorry yeah that's the screen area so that the permits for this
project previously were your approval and then order of conditions And the applicant has submitted a new notice of intent for a new order of conditions from the conservation commission. We've been working on that with them for a couple of months now and we're here now to request the
modification of your site and approval. I I've spoken with um the conservation director John Thomas and he's mirrored what what Dan had just said. So, and we do have we do have in open gov uh the
latest um superior review um Patren to the conservation commission that these issues have been the storm water issues have been addressed. Could you pull up Dan the uh landscaping plan so we could just go over the buffering in the front? Yeah.
I also see that we kind of line up just like we did before. Are we lining up the entrance way with the same driveway as we did before, or is it a different driveway? We shifted it over because there's not enough room in front of the building to to have the driveway come in
in that location. So, we need enough room. So, the driveway previously was here across from 176 South Washington. We shifted it over basically so that we could get in and be able to maneuver a vehicle or a truck or fire truck um into
the site without you know uh getting into the building frontage there. So the building needs to frank our setback. There really isn't enough room to bring up an entrance driveway in that location. We have uh nine trees and 30 shrubs proposed across the whole
frontage. That's the first 20 ft of the site. So that will all be screened and vegetated. There's no other landscaping proposed for the site and the site is partially under construction based on your prior approval. So the the site prep has been undertaken. It's been
cleared. The area that was previously has been cleared and and it's been rough graded. So this we're kind of uh in the middle of of construction and and just reworking the site plan to reflect the the new um requested changes. Thank you. Could you just zoom in just slightly
more so we can see it here if you can how the how tight the trees are planted and obviously since we're moving the building a lot closer to the road we want to look how we're streeting from the adjacent properties
could you just go through now that we can see a little bit better what the plannings are again please yeah so we we basically allow you scan over here to my planting leg. And we allow for a variety of different options um based on what's available at
um at the landscape company. So for we have a specified nine 2-in minimal trees, red maple, white oak, trembling aspen, American elm, white ash. Um we have specified a variety of shrubs,
aelas, roodendrrons, uh meadow sweet, sheep laurel, which is an evergreen tree, uh spice bush. These are all native native shrubs, native trees, um which we try to do with our landscape designs to utilize
native plant species. Could we make a suggestion? Could I make a suggestion of getting rid of the giant bites and going with something more deer resistant? Yeah, actually, you know, there were there are no giant arbor vies proposed. That is a that was a standardized legend
and we don't have any of those proposed. So, they're not they're not here. The trees that we proposed are deciduous and the shrubs as as noted. So, it' be easy to take them off the list, right? It
will do that, Mr. Chair. Yes. I just Mr. American mentioned the uh the moving of the driveway. I think the original placement of the driveway was more critical when the original original proposed use was much more traffic
intensive. I don't see a a major issue with the shift um as it is. Even though it is a change from something in past life that we were kind of focused on do we have jurisdiction to ask him to move this driveway at all? It's not
connected to anything. Looks like just an entrance. I think to do that to get it to like get it back to where it was, they'd have to put the whole building back where we they had it before. Not where it was, but just where it is exactly
right now. Looks like it's going to be pointing directly at the house opposite like like every time. I don't know if the lights any headlights into the window. Yeah. Um, if it could be offcentered a little bit or shifted one one way or another, a little bit to the
right. I could shift it to the right. I I guess I would just offer that this is a pretty low inensity use. I know you guys had entertained the possibility of a much higher intensity activity here with a lot of truck traffic. This is not going to be a
lot of traffic. You know, there are um talking about maybe a couple of employees here on site. um two to four employees on site and you're talking about a handful of vehicle trips in and out during the course of a normal day. So, we certainly could shift that
driveway over. I I just want you to understand that this is going to be a pretty quiet um low activity use. I I would say just if we could shift the driveway over in case it trades hands to another use, that's where the driveway will be set.
We can do that. Thank you. What were the uh hours of operation also? I know we had them probably in our last decision. We're not proposing any change. I don't recall what you had in the last decision. This is a normal construction,
you know, uh storage activity. So, probably around 7:00 in the morning and they might work until 5:00 at night. I don't The applicant is online here. I don't know if he has any specific hours of operation. I don't think you had anything in your prior
decision on that topic. I'm just trying to get the abuters as much information as possible. They weren't here for the previous meetings or would you like to know the updated proposal? Yeah, the use is the same as you previously approved. It's the same activity. Correct. Just different
configuration. Is it going to change your fire truck turning radius if we if you shift that driveway? I'm not seeing a huge change. Is it going to change your storage method in your yard or your um No. No. It won't change anything in your
conservation, your storm water management though. No. Can you guesstimate how many feet you could shift that? Well, I think you would like it shifted over near this lot line. Correct. Yes, that's what I would think. Yes, please. So, that's what we would do is we would
try to more or less center it on that lot line over there. Uh, so it would shift over probably 40 ft or so. Mr. Chairman. Yes, Rob. If we were to approve this, um, I've got a note here, a direct bait location and hours of
operations. Are there any other conditions people would want to bring out? My position would be that it's a modification of existing incision. So, we would take the existing one and keep whatever we had for standard conditions there.
And I we're going to go to the public for comments in a minute, but Paul and Tim, I'll I'll refer to you. It's being a change on a plan. We could if we was in our purview to approve this tonight, we could probably approve with a condition of shifting the driveway.
Yes. and do a do it in house after instead of coming back to another meeting. You can Yes. What others? Anybody else questions? Rob, good. I have no more questions. Did you? They said they wanted to Oh, no. We have the public,
but there's anyone from the public like we're online. We'll go back and forth if there's anybody that like to speak, but we'll go in the room first if anyone would like to comment on this. Not seeing anyone in the room jumping up. Any hands online, Paul? No
hands. Last chance. I'll take Tim's line. I'll ramble for another minute. Mr. Chairman, while you're rambling, um what exactly? Let's say I was leaving to propose um this and
um what exactly would I say here? Our first motion would be close the public hearing. Okay, we'll vote on that. Once we close the public hearing, we can go to another round of discussion if we wish. Um, when we make the motion to approve, we would approve with our standard
conditions which we had in our last decision. We'll refer to the last decision decision and reference the driveway. Moving the driveway approximately 40 ft to the property line. Okay. Been enough time for me to move to close
the test. Maybe ask the applicants if they have anything else they want to say. Dan, anything else? No, thank you. All said on our end. Motion to close the public hearing. Second. We have a motion to close the
public hearing in a second. All in favor? I opposed. Extensions. Public hearing is closed. Is there any other comment? Any other discussion? There's a motion to approve
um with the standard conditions plus anything you know all our previous conditions plus uh the driveway location. Just make sure the condition includes for the driveway say minimum 40 ft just so we have the number.
I just let's pretend I said minimum 40 ft. Yeah. To the east. to the east. To the east. You all heard me say that, too. I think Steve had the second on that. Steve got second. Yes. All right. We have a motion and a second to
approve SPR 15. All in favor? I opposed. Extensions. Thank you, Dan. Thank you for your time this evening. Take care.
Our last few items on the agenda all apply to the same project. We're going to start with ANR 12 for 19 Rock Lane. The owner is Northtown Properties. The applicant is Field Engineering. The applicant is seeking to create an
additional lot. And Mr. Mr. Chair, as we discuss further, we're also going to discuss SP19 and site plan as PR-12 at the same time. So we can correct not worry about what file something falls under while
we're talking about the project. That's what makes sense. And then our procedure will be we'll vote on the ANR and then on the plan special. Good evening. I'm uh Rich Hillio from Field Engineering on behalf of uh
Northtown Properties LLC. Um I don't know if you want to put the AR plan out for us, the form A. Um we're here before you as they mentioned in the um in the uh agenda for um two filings. One is a for a plan to
cut out the existing house um portion of the lot with with the existing house on it. And then the second um filing is for the um the form C subdivision and uh um special permit to allow duplexes on the two created lots. Um we originally
submitted the form C first and then the the applicants had received um an offer on the portion of the lot where the duplex uh where the existing house is. So we um followed up with the form A knowing the form C may take a little bit of time to get through um the process.
Um, and so we submitted the form a to cut out the the um the house lot. It has um 90,000 square ft. Yeah, it's 90,000 ft of area. Um, it has frontage on Rock Lane. It this the
house was actually constructed uh through a vacance process back in 1977 uh which is noted on the plan. And then um the remaining land which will be the subject of the form C is noted as not a buildable lot on the form A plan um
until the form C is is completed. So for the purposes of the forme, we're just um creating the one lot which has the existing um dwelling on it. Uh meets all the requirements um and um there's no it's not creating any zoning
non-conformities with the existing structures on the property. Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. So, just to clarify, we have the large lot there and the ANR portion is just to carve off what I'm going to call a curvy state of
Nevada right there. Yes. Yes. I I did want to note that the lot one shown on this plan will have sufficient frontage on the form C subdivision when that is approved as well. This is just something to get this
portion taken care of cuz we need a plan to be able to reference in the in the new deed for the parcel for that portion of the parcel. So the frontage now is done through a variance. Yes, it was an approved variance back in 77. What's the required what zone are we in?
This is R60. It's 150. It's 150 ft. It's down the road where everything non-conforming was 50 ft. But you're still using the existing variance frontage for now. Correct. And and then when the subdivision is
constructed, um that'll remain in place. A serious I have a serious question. We're going to take the questions from the boards first. Once we go through the board's question, we'll go right to the public. Yeah. I can. Okay.
So, it's 40 ft now, correct? For the frontage, it's just under 50. Just under 50. Yeah, it was just under the 50. I'll open up to the board. Do we have any questions on the ANR? If not, I'll probably look to go into
the plans for the the additional plans and we'll keep the ANR plan open for now. I'd agree. Do you want to present the uh site plan? Just seat up now. Oh, just before we forget, should we
have that variance in the file for this? We have to dig it up, right? Have to confirm through the registry from that. Should we have time to supply that or we do the due diligence of but we
pull that up won't be the official but we just something about right yeah I didn't I didn't review and and see that variance it is recorded on file um at the registry and
yeah that would be appreciated if you have it to save Paul some time I can probably email it to him tonight Absolutely. Not from the podium. I would say before you leave the room. Yeah. Okay. So, now we're on to the um the form. See, I've got the uh the planer
profile view before you. Um this is to create two um buildable lots from the remaining land that was shown on the on the form plan. Um each of the two lots has uh over 80,000 square ft of um
upwind area which is what's required to allow duplex construction on the process. Uh we're proposing approximately 200 foot extension of Birch Lane, maintaining the existing width of the paved um access way of the
paved roadway with a culde-sac um turnaround at the end of the at the end of the road to provide um emergency access. Um, we'll be extending the the 8 in water lane water map main to the end of the road to provide water service to
the two lots and proposing a low pressure force main for the sewer um to sewer the two lots. We have a um if you go to the next next sheet actually we're proposing a um a storm water management system which will
consist of a piped um deep sump catch basins um to a water quality inlet followed by an infiltration basin as shown on the uh far right of the screen. Um yeah that the circle the circular section just to your left. the arrow
there down. Yep. Yeah, that's that's a settling uh infiltration basin um to take the to the take the runoff from the roadway and the existing the existing development.
Um we have uh a number of waiverss that we that we did request as part of our form C submittal which were um summarized in your planners memo but I can I'll go through them uh briefly here. Um, one of the
waiverss was just the to allow the vertical datam, that's a survey datam for elevation, um, to go with the MEV 1988, that's just the most current standard. Um, the second waiver is to not require a sidewalk on the extension. There's no
sidewalks on Birch Lane or on Reservoir Street in the area. Um the third waiver was to um allow the use of kudm on the sides of the road to match into what's existing
on birch lane. And um once again another labor is just to allow the 20 ft of pavement to to remain consistent with what's existing. Um this remaining portion of the road would remain private as required under your zoning and your
right rules and rigs for for dead ends at this point. Um, I do believe Burks Lane to the end of the constructed portion is public right now, but your requirements require any dead ends to remain private. And what I how I read the read the rules and rags. We have to
um confirm with the highway superintendent about this particular questions because Birch is a public way, but it's it's actually less than the minimum standard. So, we need to see how we how that gets handled. I I looked in
the system. They haven't they haven't reviewed this. Water department hasn't reviewed and I think that department is not reviewed yet. They have not signed off on it. We did we did receive a communication this morning from um from Frank at the water
and sewer department just with a couple minor comments. nothing that would um substantially change the plan other than um we did propose a a 1-in water loop on the on the fire on the water service on the water extension, but he said that that wouldn't be necessary. He was
thinking we were looping around with the with the with the development from rock to birch and uh that's what he wanted the water loop to be, but so that would be that would be removed per his request. Um I I didn't see any sign off from the Bobby. Have you contacted them?
Oh no, he's he he talked about and he I thought he did. Um he said we would talk about the hydrant vocation. Um and then the turnaround meets the minimum requirements for the turnaround in the rules and regs. And I did put a turning template on that as well. We have it in
the packet. I I didn't produce an actual part of that, but I I can. Yeah, I think we're going to need that. Yep. So the the fifth waiver was to allow the extension of a dead end street with less than 1,000 ft of length and less than um
13 residential units. This um following completion of this project, the birch lane will still be less than 1,000 ft and less than 13 units. The applicant is proposing to construct a circular box which would improve existing conditions
out there, provide for emergency access as well. And um the sixth waiver was to allow the use of HTP drain pipe instead of concrete. And the final waiver was to not require a full environmental impact
um study. Um, we did do a a complete storm water management report which has been reviewed by your consultant. We received a letter from him today saying he was satisfied with all of our um responses to his storm water comments
and questions. And um there's it's four blocks. It's a I mean four units is relatively small use. Um, we didn't feel the need to get into the intensive int environmental impact
study. Should feel good on that. Yeah. No, I think I'm just making sure I covered everything else. No, just other, you know, the other things we we provided street trees as required by by the um the rules and rags. We have a a landscaped island in
the middle of the culde-sac which will serve um as obviously a landscaped area and also that's where some of the storm water will collect into a catch basin as well um for for the storm water management purposes. I was going to say if there was anything
Paul in terms of um your memo that you wanted to highlight in terms of things that are still open that we need to work through with other town departments. Um, and then just in terms of because this is a subdivision and what we need to look for from a subdivision rather than
just a site plan even though it's tiny. So, so uh we do need we did receive uh cost estimates for the road and storm water and I've asked the highway superintendent to look at it to confirm
the costs and the the proposed scope of work just to make sure that that's accurate. Uh again, we need to just speak with him regarding that issue about the roadway. Um whether it's something the town would accept or would
we not and what other options are there? I know been talking with the applicant earlier today. Um they they are considering at this point uh condominium association. So if if accepting the roadway is an issue, then the condominium association would be
responsible for maintaining that road. the alternative would be just a shity or something like that, right? So, um especially for the new members, um with subdivision plans, we do require what we call assurityity or a guarantee
and we can take it can take three forms. what it could be and and the shity is there to make sure that the infrastructure projects get built water you know any water sewer roadway and the the shity typically equals the total
cost of construction and the purpose is if a project were not to go start construction and and for whatever reason not complete we would have the money to complete the project. So if a road was started and and the project failed for
whatever reason, we could take that money and finish it. So we can do three different types of shy to uh to to ensure the guarantee. One is you you reserve one of the lots. Say it can't be developed until it's done and in fact
the the lot would be held by the town. We could also take cash or bond. So the treasurer said she's she's flexible. Past treasurers have not been
some have not been some wanted cash to be good. I'm good for now. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. Um I I guess I became confused. How many units are you planning on building back in here? Um two duplexes. Two duplexes. Correct.
Okay. And you're you're just extending um forgive me. I pull it back to you're just going straight back and taking verse laying further from where it ends now. Kind of starting from here.
I'm sorry. No, it's fine. Yes. Y Okay. The reason I'm asking is that looks almost like you run right back right into another person's house. No, that it's when I'm looking through folders. This is an old master. Yeah, the the other house is is like over here. This
this property actually I can show the ex just the conditions on it. Yeah, you do have the house that's down over there, but then there was another one looks like it's more straight back. This area at the end of birch is all is the wooded area. the the the barn opens
up over here um for the house at the end of Fern. And then the other house, this is the one at the end of at the end of rock. Yeah, I guess that guy could be on the end rock as it is. But yeah, that's
that's the um the house that's 19 Rock Lane. That's the one that would be carved off under the Leave the um the log cabin at the end of it, but it looks like Rob's got the uh satellite map pulled up. Does anybody else want to
take a look while it's got it pulled up? Just be careful. Don't touch the screen. The entire screen's a button. Thanks Peter. Before we go down the go down the line, I think Steve has a couple questions I'm sure, but my only comment would be I
always look for in these projects how they fit in with the neighborhood. The existing neighborhood is all single family housing. I believe so. I do. I don't believe there's any duplexes on um Birch. That's my number one concern
is how a project fits in and matches the neighborhood, I guess, is my first comment or thought. Um Steve, if you want or I agree with you, I I I agree with that too. I do have another comment about the project though. Um it looks
like where the culdeac starts there's it's the beginning of a hydraologic collection like a little stream and then that stream follows through where it looks like the driveway goes for the second duplex. If you look at map geo
it's marked under the Massachusetts wetlands as as a hydro logic connection. The stream runs across Cobb Street when it goes a little bit down behind the woods behind all those houses. The original subdivision that was made in the
30s proposed the roads continued further than that. And I think the reason why it stopped where it did is because it met that that line, that waterway. That's why the roads never continued further and connected throughout the back like the original subdivision wanted. Not to
stop you thinking, Steve, but Paul, have we had any conversation with John Thomas? Do you know where this was within conservation jurisdiction? He has reviewed it. I can speak to that. We did meet John Thomas out on site. We walked right over that area and it was
determined that was a drainage um thing that had developed over time from the existing house there. Um our wetlands consultant also did review the site and didn't determine there was any wetland uh jurisdiction to that to that
area with his flagging. um as part of our project. Um back to the SP1 the easel. We're proposing uh to to um intercept that water with a pipe, a culvert under under the driveway for lot
one here and put that into our drainage system which will discharge into the infiltration basin in the back as opposed to how it continues now going down this way. And this will this is sized to accept that water and infiltrate it into the ground. If it
does over top, it'll go towards the the the large wetland in the back along Mass Highway um area uh as opposed to continuing down into the yard over here. Mr. Chair, just so that I want to find
out if that is that stream is that you're dealing with runoff or is that an actual stream? No, it's it's drainage from the runoff from the the development of this walk here coming down this way. Okay. Not an actual street. No. No. So
from a house that we're looking at? Yes. Any thoughts? I If that stream passes conservation, there's not much I can say. I I again, I've grown up down the grove. I've seen it flooded. It runs through Cobb Street. When you go, there's a bridge on Cob Street that you
have to cross. It's a culvert. The water flows underneath it. You can physically I mean you can hear the water but I don't know where it is at that property but how heavy it is. Uh I assume all the water running from the neighborhood and from the wetlands and back just kind of
meets there and it's just the low point. But if conservation says that I I don't know what to do about that. If if my opinion, if conservation's looked at it, our agent has looked at it and their uh wetland scientist has looked at it,
the wetland scientist is putting his license on the line saying it's not a stream and it's been looked at by a few people. So, we would have to in my opinion, I would go with their interpretation of what it is. Other than that, I would I would say
agreeing with the idea of keeping in in the character of the neighborhood there. There aren't any other duplexes. It's not a homeowners association type of neighborhood. It is small single family homes. What can you think of the duplexes in the area of Toronto? There's
one multif family that's up on the hill towards the landscape then it's like a four or six unit something like that but that's the only one. Um yeah, other than that I don't have a terrible complaint
about the project. It fits most of the criteria. You want to talk a little about the duplex reasoning and what the duplex they have concerns with them being duplexes out here. Yeah, we didn't look around to see where the duplex the corner of Cobb I believe has that huge
house on it that has condos or apartments or something. If I could comment on it was it's that's not allowed in that neighborhood. I don't know why it went in. Maybe it was a 4DB or something like that, but that was at one point a laundromat and maybe they
replaced it as a lesser non-conforming use in their mind. I I don't know. Other than that, we never looked around. Most of those houses are in the process of being redone or have been there forever. Um, but we never thought to look around for
other duplex. We thought this was set back so far into the woods that it's really not in the neighborhood. It's certainly quite a bit away from it. Um, but if if the need is to have other duplexes in the area, I mean, we haven't
any look around. We didn't think it was even even in the thought process. I wouldn't say the need is to have any duplexes in the area. Um, as I was saying before, I always just look at how what's being proposed fits into what's there now. That makes sense to you. Not necessarily more of them, but how does
it fit in with the neighbors that have been there forever? Yeah, it's a little bit different. Obviously, you can see it's so far set back in the woods. Um, I mean, it will be different than the houses that be on Bird Street, no doubt. But it's got so much it's it's
sitting on what 80,000 plus ft of of uplane each one of these lots. And the Rock Lane house in the front that we're trying to do the um the airplane on is I think that's close to 93,000 ft of upland. So, I mean, it really is back in the woods. So, it's not like it's
sitting next to any of the houses that run the streets. It' be a great addition to the area. You say this the size of the property and given the the neighborhood, the most
of the lots are 5,000 ft. This land, if it was built as an extension of the neighborhood and it was following the exact same layout, would fit more than six units or five units or four duplexes and then the
house, which wouldn't be allowed anyway. Existing zoning, but it's our existing zoning is out of character with what the neighborhood actually is, which is kind of a problem we can contend with. Um the only other thing beyond that I would say is from the old thought uh
could they have a curve cut to the new frontage? Oh from the from the from from 19 Rock. Yeah. From the the culdeac that's being built. I don't know if there's a curb cut being built there for the for the old lot.
So the driveway to the log cabin. Could we tie that into the road? I don't have 19 rough wings for every come around. Yeah, because Yeah, I think that's what you you mean because that's the the actual frontage now like it just provides the alternate access but it
would be conforming to the actual zoning frontage. The Yeah. No, I I don't see that being an issue as an alternate way out of 19 Rock Lane once the roadway is constructed. Absolutely. So, so that
would give basically 19 lane and access two access points. That's a good idea. And um so you said it's going to be a condo association. Yes. We would set we would build them as um salable condos. Yes. So there's going to be a homeowners association for the
culdeac. Correct. Yes. Uh so how how amenable are they going to be for the community going down that road, the kids playing and running around? not gonna be gated off private. Nobody's gonna the kids are gonna be running around there. They're gonna be stepping in people's yards and stuff
like I don't know how that will work, but there's a lot of land for the kids to be running around. That's not true. I I mean, we live in a tight neighbor. I live down the road myself and the kids have to run in the neighborhood. Like they there's they're going to be running
on the frontage. Like the idea that that that cold is going to be the hangout spot. Mhm. So if if it is going to be in, I would like a public easement on the culus act so that nobody can be booted out.
Does that do Yeah, that's fine. Right. But that gets back to the public private or the way. I mean, we could grant I mean could with dead end streets um in the rules and rags, I just read it. Uh if you approve a dead-end street, it
has to remain private. The street itself, that's right in the rules and rags. This is a little different cuz it's already existing dead end street. But I I would we were, you know, we move forward with this assuming it would be private a private street. Um but that's
button easement wouldn't be an issue. I would like to hear from the rest of the residents. Tim's got one more question. I was just going to say Paul has already said that he wants to talk more with the highway superintendent about how we would handle the roadway
itself. So that I think my expectation and anybody else can speak if they feel differently is that we would potentially act on the ANR tonight, but the rest it would potentially be continued until we checked off some more boxes. But to
Steve's point, I'm ready to hear public comment as well if we don't have anything else. Uh Tim, can I just say like one last thing? I just want to like reiterate that. Yeah, Kyle Bernok. Okay. Yep. I just want to reiterate that um as the
owners and the developers, it's in our best interest to do something that we think would work and like look good on the lot. At the end of the day, I understand you're saying it's mostly single families. Uh I think that's why the zoning requires so much square footage to be able to do a duplex. Um so
that's we have a lot of land so like you know by like that's what we're allowed to do with that square footage obviously with your approval. Um so I just want to reiterate that we're not looking just like some greedy developers looking to like maximize what we can do in a lot. We truly think that these are tucked
away at the end of a culde-sac which is a huge improvement to the street in the area and we're not like I feel like a duplex kind of has a ugly association with it. Um and we'd be looking to do like beautiful like higherend like nice looking things that will obviously
create a lot of tax revenue, create infrastructure upgrades, things like that. So, um I just, you know, want to know that a lot of thought goes into why we do what we do. And we truly think, uh, a duplex is the best fit for that area. And it is very tucked away.
There's, you know, the log cabin 19 Rock Lane that we're selling separately on one side, which is a huge lot. Um, and it's pretty pretty remote back there, you know, for the most part. So, just wanted to say like these aren't just like some duplexes that we're going to
be like adding to our portfolio and renting out. They would be, you know, high-end luxury nice, you know, buildings. Just want to make sure that was understood. Thank you. If you could see the podium and I'll invite members of the public up and then if we need you
to come back up, Rich, if you want to answer any questions after they're done, I'll ask that. Yeah, please leave them. Who wants to speak first? If you want to come and make a line or one at a time, fight your way. If you want to talk from there, absolutely. If we can hear you, just state your name and address,
please, for the record. It's Kathy Backpock, eight broccoli. Go ahead, Kathy. I've lived there since 1972. And one thing I thought in 1979
they made that conservation land which meant nobody was going to build on it. That's why they got a I moved the people in the log cabin and that's why they got a tax break because they made it conservation land. All of a sudden it's not conservation land. You
tore down all the trees at the end of Birch Lane. I just don't understand that. I thought there'd be a meeting on people on our street to unconservate it. Do you follow what I'm saying? I know what you're saying. I don't believe
we have a record of it, Paul. As far as I know, of there being a conservation heat um restriction or anything on the end of Rock Lake, I believe is what she was referring to. Not that we So, so our because the wetlands were stopped back
there, it they made it. We definitely have a plan. We had approval on conservation. We definitely have a plan in front of us that shows where the proposed lot one and lot two are going and they are outside of conservation and outside of the jurisdiction. Uh we could
probably pull that up for you if you want to show you on that. Okay. Um Paul, do you see the plan I'm referring to? Shows where the what's what's the Hold on. I'm trying to scroll down. It's L1.
L1. Which one is that? L1 in the bottom right is the label. Lotting plan. I think it's page four. Page four. Correct. And so to reiterate, we had our conservation agent has looked at it
along with their wetlands engineer. The dotted area is the wetlands area currently. I will endeavor to get a laser pointer for next meeting. I've always wanted one. That sounds like a plan.
Um, so you can see that dotted area is outside. All right. Of where they're proposing those. If you can picture where the propos where it says proposed lot one and proposed lot two is where the structures are
proposed inside those boxes which is outside of the conservation land. So you're correct there is absolutely conservation land back there but their jurisdiction is not reach to their project. It is not under the conservation um it's jurisdiction at
all. they are subject to storm water and everything that we have had a peer reviewer review. So a peer reviewer is an engineer um that the town selects but the applicant pays for to look at all the plans, look at the storm water, make sure when they build that road, they're
not going to be flooding the neighbors, make sure they're capturing all their storm water um issues like that. Anybody else? If you can make it up to the podium, we encourage you. If you're speaking from the room, you won't be heard on the meeting.
We'll see your comments in the video. You'll get my response, but we won't get what you're saying. It's okay. You can come up. We don't You don't have to be shy. And just again, your name and address, please, for the record. Dorothia Hoopy uh North Lancier Lane 23
Road North Lakes Road. Um the objection that I have is the fact that we are all um it's a dead end street and to build um condos there is
going to it just does not fit with the neighborhood. um and any of the neighborhoods in the growth area. It's um you already have children playing on the streets as it is and to have um three condos or whatever their duplex is
with more kids on the streets. It is not um an area that needs to have a lot more children on the street. we are already very um small lots uh full neighborhoods and now you want
to put condos at the end of that street and I personally just don't feel that it is going to match the neighborhood be good for the neighborhood and um serve any purpose except lining somebody's pockets who wants to bring condos out there excuse me I'm sorry I'm not very
good at public speaking I think you're doing fine Um, and that's why I would encourage you not to vote to change the atmosphere and um the Grove area. There are all families in with homes. Uh, we don't
have condos and um uh people that don't have that um doing their yard and doing um having their families and playing in the yards. It's that's what our
neighborhood is right now. And to start putting condos in and filling up all the areas, we're already very crowded in that growth area. And to add that type of condo and those kind of um buildings there is just going to
um make it much harder um and for the families that are already living there. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Uh my only feedback would be any
land owner has a right to use and develop their land as they see fit as long as it fits in with our bylaws. That being said, we have a little discretion with a special permit. Uh we have a set of criteria with a special permit that we are allowed to consider.
Um the use of a duplex in this area is by special permit. So, we have some conditions that we have to be mindful of and consider when voting if that makes sense to you.
Ronaldy, my husband, we've been addressing again, please. Sorry. 23 North Lake. We're a buyers to that property along with several others that are a buyers to my neighbors that are that property back in
the 70s. children that that gentleman was telling about used to come through our lawn to go through as a path to get to other streets back there through the woods. And I'm right at the end. When you come through my road, you've got several houses, but then you've got to
turn left to go to the next street over. So it's a bike called my question was my questions that I have for you guys is I initially thought that when an individual buys property
which the house that was between uh where I live and across from that she has a property from my road north lake view to the following street over. The person that initially voted was trying to divide that property up as well but
couldn't. My question I always thought that once a person buys a property they couldn't subdivide that property. Indonesian I thought when we first moved there that was all Norton's property woods. I knew the person that
had first built that. His children come through my yard and that's part of what they did back then in the 70s. And uh now you're going to build more two duplexes there. Now, am I going to have
to build I have a pool in the back. Does that require me now to build a 6ft fence around that pool? Does it require me to pull a six-foot fence down around my property to keep that out? Because number one, you're going to whether it's
a six family, whether it's an eight family, children's going to visit, families are going to visit, kids are going to be kids. So, you're expecting me to to do something to my property to ex my expense to create something that's
going to happen for me. I like the police staff somebody cuz when individual that bent that up built that log cabin was telling me that he was having water issues. So whether that was a stream that was not I still would like to see or find some
record of some environmental things saying that it's not going to happen or if it is. So that to me is a concern. We've been good neighbors and like I said to me it's going to ruin the aesthetics of the neighborhood.
It's it's it's it's the neighborhood that's always been myth, all you can buy 5,000 square ft. I initially had issues with my neighbor, which was a pie, which was 5,100 square ft. At that point, we
didn't have any sewer. So, you couldn't build because the septic tank would have been right at the pie. It was not enough to build a septic tank till we came. And then because of 5,000 square ft, somebody could build on a little pie and he's
right there next to me. So I to me it's it's it's it's going to ruin a neighborhood that gentleman say that might be, you know, beautiful here or there. Is he going to cut the trees? Am I going to see the commons?
Right now I can't. You sit in my on my back porch. I can't see that log cabin when the leaves are blooming. It's I can't see it. Is he going to knock the trees? No. No. You're going to look at two condos from my backyard. So, for me,
aesthetically, it doesn't fit. So, I bring the engineer up and have them go over land clearing what they're going to clear. I do not believe they're proposing to do any work on the lot that we were talking about for the log cabin. Rock Lane. Rock Lane.
Um there's no work proposed in this project in front of us for that piece of land. What we're talking But the cabin is going to get knocked down though. Correct. No, not not in this project. That's not what's in front of us. No, not in this particular project. That's
not what is in front of us. Correct. So that condo will that log cabin will still be existing when the condos are there? Yes. Yes. We can pull up the plan and um they're they've proposed that they're essentially carving
out, if you look on the map that's on the screen there, what kind of looks like the state of Nevada. They're selling that lot to somebody with the log cabin on it. Yep. Ultimately, what they do with that property is what the new owner is going to do with it. If my neighbor wants to
cut down a tree, he can cut down. Okay. So, that's just that's going to be a separate owner. Yeah. separate piece of property. Exactly. If they if my neighbor wants to cut down a tree, if it gives me great shade, I guess I should have taken a picture. Um, but no, the
duplexes would be on the remainder of that lot. So, the lot with the log cabin, they're proposing to carve out entirely and that would be by itself. Would the log cabin stay? Would somebody put something else in there? Who knows?
But but did we did we have it before where if someone owned that one piece of property that it couldn't be subdivided? You can always sub I mean you can change your lot lines when you want to. You just have to file the paperwork to do
it. It doesn't matter. If I own if I own one it has to be zoning. If I own one acre of a piece of property and I've owned it since the 70s and now I decide to I want to subdivide it and put a so a condo on it. The requirements are up on
the board for any new uh parcels. So for example single family or residential depending on uh where you are in town would be either 40,000 60,000 or 80,000. You would have to abide by the new
zoning to build anything to propose anything if the land you own but res but our complex here they can build on 5,000 square feet because of grandfather clause it's grandfather you can't build any new lots that size I'm saying
existing lots say I I I lived for 72 and 1/2 acre tomorrow I decide to say hey you know what you'd have I want that other acre to be a condo I want to subdivide it you'd have to do exactly what we're doing tonight and you allow but I thought you couldn't
subdivide if it was below requirements you'd have to go to um because of the to the ZBA probably if it's below the minimum requirements that we have on the screen well then you a variance like anything else if you're on a small lot
if you need a variance to put in a pool or do something else so I'll tell you also we're seeing this a lot a lot more lately um residents that have been here for their whole life, parcels that they believed were not developable. Um every
parcel in this town is being looked at to being developed. I'll tell you that right now. There's more and more development coming in. Um it's just urban sprawl coming this way. And like I said before, the the land owner has rights as a land owner to do what they
can to their lot within the what's allowed in the zoning. And it's happening. I want to say every meeting we're having this exact conversation. Okay. Well, if I disapprove because of the aesthetics, I don't agree that ought to do that.
Can I ask what you guys are um telling these people? Are you allowing them to uh build on smaller parts or are you uh trying to um discourage that? May I ask that question?
Thank you. Chairman, do we talk to them at all outside of this meeting? I haven't talked to everything that we do is in our open meeting. Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure. No, everything we talk about is an open meeting. We're not allowed to discuss
anything outside of this meeting. No, I meant you you uh what was our opinion on this project? you've talked to other um homeowners or when they come to the pro you said that uh this comes before you quite often situations like this where
more development of duplexes or more development of single family homes more development in general and you guys have to prove that depending on what it is that has to come before us. Okay. My question is are you approving them or are you um
discouraging? We there's very limited things we can say no to. Um we do typically sometimes say no and a lot of times we end up in court. Um there's very few things this our only thing that we have discretion here is
for the special permit looking at the use of the duplex. He could be proposing right now single family houses in a defendant plan and we'd have much less cur and much less opinion if you feel what I'm saying because he's asking
it's not a buy right use the duplex use um because they're asking for that that gives us a little bit I Paul I saw you scrolling or Brian was scrolling could you just pull up our special permit conditions I saw you had the bylaw up a minute ago which is probably changing
Yeah, but I mean a lot of cases looked at stuff and some of it's been by right, some of it has been not by right, some of it is and we do get a lot of those. I've lived next to this lot for 30 years and they told me it could never be built on and we hear the land the the we hear
it a lot. Put it that way. It's not just your frustration. It's happening a lot more recently and I'm sure it's not just ignored either. If I add that there's a lot of byright uses that could just happen. That property that you're talking about right now could be a school tomorrow and
it wouldn't even come through this board. So it's not residential only. There are many things that are allowed in the residential zone. It's just mostly not commercial. Do you guys have a stay in in it or I don't want to keep if you want to come
back up and and I'm to have a discussion going back and forth just because they can't catch it on the Zoom meeting and no one can hear what you're saying and hear my reply. My one other question would be that uh once the sewer is you just get to the mic just so
please be back from 210 North Lake Bureau. My other question would be is the sewer system, water system. We all end up paying residents because what hap what actually fell for you was the silver factory when that
question came up and it was asked what this person that goes around and it got rejected. So that's going to come to us. If this taxpayers if this project goes through you'll actually pay just a little bit less. They they've proposed extending the water line and paying to
hook up the sewer. They become part of the group of people that pay for the sewer that they're connected to. I'm also on sewer so I pay a portion of the sewers project. Okay. What you're referring to is if say they were proposing to pull sewer down your whole
road or say that not even that say the town was saying we're going to bring sewer down your whole road then you would be forced at a certain period of time to cut to it. But right through the choice question, come right up to the microphone and please name and address.
We still have no hands raised in the Zoom meeting. My name is Linda Ramadoo. I live on 16 Birch Lane. For 47 years, I've been the last house on Birch Lane, which I've loved. In fact, that's why my husband and I bought the place because of the
woods and everything. But I realized that I figured at some time it was going to be developed. I was hoping it was going to be in my lifetime, but evidently I'm going to stick around a little bit longer. So, I guess I guess it is. Pardon me.
No, go ahead. Not so long. But um so I I want to understand this. So, um, right now Birch Lane ends with my house. So, when it extends into the culdeac or whatever, are they also going
to be numbered Birch Lane? The new duplexes will be built. Okay. But now you're saying Birch Lane right now is a public road, but when it goes into the culde-sac, that's going to be private. That is a requirement by our bylaw, but
we're going to talk to the highway superintendent about what we would what they would why they would want us to approach it from that perspective. But if you I mean, like I said, I'm the last house on the street. Do you know how many people come down thinking it's a throughway and turn around in my
driveway? Well, now they're going to go straight through that culde-sac thinking, you know, the road is extended and they're going to get a lot more traffic in there now, too. I'm the last house on Walam Road. It's a dead end also right down the road. So you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. But so I
said I just wanted to you know just throw that little wrench in there that you know they're going to get a lot of traffic in that culdeac because people going to think it's I asked one time if they could put a dead end sign on the end of street and they told me they couldn't do that because there
were too many dead ends down in the grove and it would be too expensive. So, I was going to make one my own, but I don't think I can. Can I They'd have to catch you. Just don't sign it. Just Okay, that's just Okay,
thank you. Thank you very much. I don't see any hand raised and zoomed. We have pulled up our variance of special permit standards. So, if you can see what's highlighted, I'm half blind and can't read it from here, but there you go.
It's highlighted better. Anybody read that to dictate it? Yeah, she could. So as a condition of granting a permit or special permit, the granting authority, that would be us, uh shall find that the petition for exception is socially and
economically desirable, that it would satisfy existing need, that the advantage of the proposal outweigh by far any detrimental effects, and that such effects on the neighborhood and environment should not be significantly greater than could be expected from development if the permit or a special
permit were denied. meaning compared to an as of right use. Personally, I think that covers our area. That's it's not going to make it better. It's going to be to the detriment of the neighborhood. And um as
you read that cuz I can't read it. Um it I really feel that we fall in that category. My name is Jeff Wear. I live on uh 17 Rock Lane, which is the last house in
Rock Lane, right next to Keyboard Cabin, proposed site for the condominiums. Now, I see everybody's, you know, everybody's going back and forth, and I agree 100% what the college is saying. Now, yes, all legally binding.
Yes. about what you guys say outweighs this and outweighs that. But we the people that live there, okay, don't want it. It's going to be an ugly eyesaw. No matter what you think, sir. Now, let me ask you something. Can you don't get
this? Just your questions in the chair. Question. If this was your neighborhood, your house, you were living there all these years. Would you want this in? It's a beautiful piece of land back there. beautiful log cabin and there's so many
other places that you could put in a condominium where it would fit where it wouldn't bother anybody. But you're going to allow these people to put this ugly eyesore and to condominiums and you can beautify it all you want, but it's still a condominium. Going to put it in
this neighborhood where people have lived there the whole lives and upset the whole world. It's not right. And no matter what I was trying to explain earlier, the only thing we can tie to and look at right now under
special is the duplex use. And that's the criteria that we just I've seen last year. Four brand new houses put on the other end of Resident Street coming out into 140. Every one of them houses has
flooded and flooded across the road because people allowed them to build there and giving them the same false promises of, "Oh, it's going to be okay. It's going to be I talked to the people. I pulled over. I took pictures, multiple pictures. I still got them on my phone
of all the flooding that went on for those houses being built in that area on wetlands, conservation land, which is happening all over Norton. And it's just an atrocity. I agree with you loud. I agree with you. There's a lot of building happening. Um
to build on wetlands right now, it it'd be almost impossible. There are so many boards and so many so many boards and our conservation agent looking at every project. Um you can't build just on wetlands. It
doesn't happen. on projects like this, we have we rely on the engineers and there's very certain criteria in the storm water management bylaw that has to be met. Um we have the applicant has an engineer that designs the system and then we do a peer review of it. So the
town picks an engineer, the applicant pays for it to review all the engineering, review all the calculations. It's all in the the package. Somebody dropped the ball that that's I don't know about that. That's not in front of us. too. Just to confirm, you're talking
about the ones on the right hand side dropping it on reservoir off of 140. Yes. Yeah. Actually on the left hand side. The left hand side. Okay. If there's disturbances below I want to say an acre home. The storm water review isn't required and it just goes basically through the building
commissioner. Correct. Right. If it's under Yeah. We didn't see any of those. My point is this is a lot. It's it's going to mess things up and it can make a lot of people that they don't have. I I'll say personally we all weigh our
decisions differently. I weigh neighbors opinions heavily and always have. Um as you can see that's what we have. How does it affect the neighborhood? That's one of the hardest things we take what we say into consideration. We're the ones that we have to sit here and listen to you. We're all your neighbors too. We
all have the same problems. We have to sit here and live with ourselves after no matter which way we go. I have I don't want to go up. That's not very We We need to We need you to come up. Unless there's a This is We have to get
you. You live right there. We made the exception for the Yeah. for the young lady there. Yes. If you would have said that was your I would have accepted it. I made her. Um 17 Rock Lane. Could you say it again? I'm sorry. 17 Rock. What
was your name again, please? Jennifer. What was your last name, Jeff? um I've lived there for over 20 years and um what I've seen now with them tearing down the trees cuz it looked like they were going to make the road go around to
Birch Lane from Rock 19 Rock Lane's driveway like they started cutting down all the trees and it's it's not pretty and it's huge pine trees already taken down land being gone. It's just so sad.
Um he might say this is a beautiful might be beautiful but condos don't fit in that area. We are small houses. We are small community. We are we like we're packed in there tiny. It's not going to fit. And then the extra people
all the extra water that's going to have everything. It's it's just doesn't fit. It doesn't doesn't seem right. I I don't understand how that like we don't it was we thought it was conservation land and we Carl Weber used to live there. He had
that all of I thought it was conservation. He said no one could build on it and now they're doing it. It's just it's just so upsetting. It It just is. I know. I can't fight anything. I can't. I just want It just I don't even know how much longer I can stay there
anyway. And how much of our taxes are going to go up? Are our taxes going to go away up from this? because of that happening. Look at what we don't have a lot of money. You know, we're not a rich neighborhood. We can have big, beautiful, rich condos. We're not a rich neighborhood. We're, you know, none of
us have people are trying to retire these people who have been here for 40 years, 50,70. How are we going to afford to live there if our taxes go up? You know, it's it's a lot. And and like you said, you live, you know, you play you live
there. My kids probably played with you there. You're like about my children's age. I played with my hoopies, you know, and you know the backwoods back there. And yes, the river does run through and go back down into Cob Street and over there. We We all know that. I don't I don't understand it. I don't understand
how it can be approved. You You are going to approve it. You approved all the other buildings in Norton. Um, like you said, it's all building up and it just seems like it's all going away and there's the animals, there's the people, it's community and that doesn't feel
like our community. It doesn't feel right. So, that's what I'm going to say. And I get up here and that's very good for me to do. So, you did a great job. I'll speak I guarantee all of us feel your frustration. We hear we hear it in your
voice. It's just a small cry. I don't see anybody else ready to come up. The only thing I would say is Rich, if you wanted to come up and just I'd say let's point out the limit of tree clearing just was the only thing in my brain that I thought we could point out that might help a little bit explain the
project. Is there a specific sheet we should go to here? Um, this No, I'll go down SP. I just want to let speak to the board. So I met John Thomas out there. We walk the site. We walk everything and that's how we come up with the plan. But uh on the tree clearing, we only treat clear the
trees at the end of Birch uh with the approval of John. Um we did that for the specific reason of selling the 19 lane property. No, we couldn't access it anymore after that. So John was okay with it. So now we can get down down to
the with the tree. We only cleared the trees right at the right at the end of the birch. It was outside the conservation jurisdiction the trees you can cut down. Yes, I know. But we just just to make sure again we check with John to make sure that he was good with and and he said there was no issue with it. So
uh yeah I just want to touch on it's it's unfortunate we hear some you know people that aren't in support but I just want to reiterate that uh you know at the end of the day it's it's I just want to reiterate how tucked away this is at the end of the day in terms of affecting the neighborhood. If you're not familiar with looking at plans it might be just
your condos. you might not understand, but number one, these really do kind of look more like single families at the end of the day than what most people think of as duplexes. So, I do think that is important to note. As you can see, the orientation with, you know, the
splitting out the house and the garage on each side. So, at the end of the day, they really do look like single family houses. Um, and it's it's tough if you're not familiar with looking at plans as much as we are, but these are set. You can see how far set back these
properties are. So, I'm not really sure um how Butters would really be that affected given how far back they are. Um in terms of the concern about people backing up and than the the woman who
lives the last house there, I would only think having this culdeac would be a lot better if people just turn around than use somebody's driveway. Um, and I also know that we would be fine working with the town on putting up, you know, deadend signs or something like that if
that was important as well. Um, so just want to reiterate that these are set far back. They really have more the appearance of single families. We do our due diligence ahead of time and uh, yeah, that was it. Could could you elaborate just a little bit more on square footage of the duplexes and maybe
number of bedrooms if you know if you've gotten that far? Yeah, we don't have official measurements, but um these sizes couldn't be subject to change. Is that correct? You know, um obviously when we do our initial plan, we want to see the maximum size building so we know
our buildable footprint we can work with, but obviously we're not just looking to build the biggest buildings possible. If I had to guess, Dad, I'd say probably like three bedrooms, like 22,000 to 2400 ft. Probably two stories, three stories. Yeah, it'll probably have
the appearance of more of a somewhat of a colonial looking house from the front, but uh you know, it's just it'll be each condo would be managed by you know, that lot just two units really. So, it's and they're pretty long driveways that stem
off of the culde-sac um for that lot too. And then lot three is a little bit more south, but it's pretty long driveway set back in the woods. That's why we feel like it's just a nice fit. So, you're saying you're not going to be going in at the end where you are now, just clear cutting the rest of the lot
to put up the are you going to leave the trees buffering in between the duplexes or we we certainly plan on keeping as much trees as possible. And um I think there was some confusion with the previous gentleman, but yeah, the 19 rock lane, there is a lot of trees that
split up the 19 rock lane house with uh Lake View Street above. So, we're not touching any of that stuff. There's a lot of wood question, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So um yeah I remember previous project where the guest developer there and cut trees and say no cutting trees
cost money. Why would I do that? Exactly. Yeah. The whole appeal is that these are lots that are treated you know in a wooded environment. So we want to keep as many trees as possible. Have a question. One one you can come back up.
almost I mean if you want to take one more question there I know we're going to be you know we still have some department stuff we have to deal with on the the form C um you know we like to move on the ANR tonight at least and I think that's our intention we'll see
what you know we can address more on form C as well there's nothing on the form A that affects what you do on the form C no we we showed an easement on on the 19 propane site just very conservatively just to have have that
shown there in case we needed to to use that and so the the buyers would be aware of that but I I I believe they're well aware of what's going on here Jennifer if you want to come back up absolutely question just wait for the microphone just so
everyone can hear you you're doing fine um when you guys were talking about the culde-sac and and and where 19 Rock Lane is and there was um the driveway for 19 Rock Lane being a pathway through to Birch
Lane. Is that going to happen or are you going to keep it all on Birch Lane and the culde-sac? The the only thing that I was talking about was having an access for the property that's on Rock Lane uh to the new frontage that would be available. be
their own. It would be cuz then it would be coming over from Rock Lane to from Birch Lane to Rock Lane and there would be traffic going all No, no public traffic. It would just be their driveway because where they took down the trees, huge trees at the end of on Rock Lane,
you know, at 19 Rock Lane, right where Birch is, at the end there, they took down a whole lot. I thought they were building a whole road there. It looks like that. Just just an access for a driveway. That's it. There is an easement on their plan. So are they going to have so 19 Rock Lane's
going to have access from Birch Lane to get get through? Is that what you're saying? They'll continue to use Rock Lane probably, but they will have the frontage. They'll have they'll be able to go through and that's why they're, you know, cuz they took down some huge trees back there. So um that's why I was
concerned cuz I didn't know if there were going to be just a road going from birch to rock going straight around, you know, even though. So I didn't want no road. So, I have another quick question. So, they're building these two con well duplexes. Duplexes.
Does that give them later on in years to build more around that area? Will that happen? No. They'd have to meet every requirement to fit new lots in it. They've already question because because it's just it's a lot. It's a lot for
that little road. It's just a tiny little road. They would have to plan out positioning their buildings for a future subdivision, which I don't believe they had done. Okay. I just wanted to ask that question because I wasn't sure and I wasn't cuz when you look cuz I'm at
the very end. When you look down, it just looks like the road's going to go through now and big trees relatively just I would say never say never, but it does not appear that that would be like I probably won't be around. I think there's definitely some projects we've looked at and says this looks like a
phase one and phase two. This is big empty space. I don't see a a feasible path to a phase two, but I may not be that smart. Okay. I just there is wetlands. We could
we could get the distance right behind the duplexes. There is wetlands that would not be built. I hope not. Okay. All right. just ask one more. Sure. One more. Yeah. So, it's Kathy Babcock here. Yeah, this is Kathy Babcock again. Sorry. Hey, Rock
Lane. At the end of Rock Lane in Birch Lane, trying to make a left-hand turn is horrifying trying to see. And I'm just thinking if he does put the duplexes up there, it's even going to be
worse. So, I don't know. If someone I mean there has been accidents there before. I'm not sure. I'm not following where you're saying there's going to be more on Reservoir. Yeah. Going out of those two streets onto Reservoir Street. You trying to
look left. You can't do it. It there's trees all along in the telephone poles that and we have the cemetery there that you can't go into cuz there's a cemetery there. So those trees all kind of you
got to edge out slow and I'm just trying to think safety that's all cuz I know they're existing conditions that won't be touched with this project to do. There'll be added traffic obviously. Um you probably bet at least one two cars per duplex. Just guessing.
Um but there's no proposed tree cutting. There's no proposed work other than on their culde-sac and at the end of the road. Um, we could look at that with Jared with regards to sight distance at the end of Birch and see if there's anything that can be done to improve that within
the town's layout possibly. Um, we did talk about putting a dead end sign at the end of Birch so people know that it's not a throughway. Um, that's that's not a problem. Um, but safety is paramount at all, you know, anyways as it is. You're not required to look at that with Jared, but you're offering.
Well, I mean, yeah, we'll see if there's, you know, something within reason that we can look at with him if there's something that needs to be done. It's all pretty tight in there. No, I know there's not much layout to work with and and stuff, but if there was road layout to work with, then there might be sidewalks and all sorts of
things, but that's not a that's a pipe dream. Thank you. Any other member of the public online in person? Again, we're not acting on the whole project tonight. We're going to take a vote and just separate the log cabin property is our
next vote. The votes after that, we're going to vote to continue the rest of this discussion. They have to go back with town staff, go back to highway, sewer, um, and several other boxes they have to check and then come back to the next meeting. We will be continuing the
meeting to a certain date tonight. So you will know tonight when the next meeting will be. However, it's possible it could get delayed. Um so they can at any time if we continue to the next meeting which is June 20th
May 20th. If we continue to the May 20th at any time they can ask for a continuence to our next meeting in case they haven't had time to check all their boxes. Um, you can find that out calling, asking Paul or Brian in the planning office or all the information
is available online on the planning department page. Um, you can look at the agendas and keep track of what's going on and come back and visit us more if you want. And if they ask before the meeting, we'll update the agenda and it'll say applicant is requesting
continuence to X date just like it does on two of our things tonight. Correct. Yeah. Is there anything else the board wants to ask the applicant tonight? If not, our next procedure will be to act on the
ANR12 for 19 Rockland. I just got one more comment on it. Um, as far as the the the only thing we really have jurisdiction here is the the special permit, correct? And um you know, we're supposed to decide whether
it's desirable or not. And uh we I heard about like the look of it. It's going to look like a single family home or whatever, which is actually not really my priority. It's the function of the building. Is it going to behave like the rest of the
neighborhood? It duplexes and condos tend to be not as homey. Nobody makes a homestead there. It's not something that gets handed down by the generation. People don't really start home businesses there. There's not going to be people
digging their own gardens in the yard. Um, I don't know. It's not necessarily the wrong type of place to exist in Norton, but if it might not fit the character of the neighborhood. I don't believe the behavior of the people that
live there is going to follow the same character as the rest of the neighborhood. Agree. Well said, Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. Um, you're just thinking it's honestly the concept the visual the vision of the concept seems farther along that I was expecting. Do you think it'd be
appropriate to ask for a rendering of what the buildings will look like and potentially uh maybe an overhead rendering of what the streets and the driveways and all that look like. Um, assuming we continue this till another meeting. We'll definitely be continuing the special
permit and the definitive plan. Do a further one. We can definitely ask. We can blow up a um satellite at the next meeting. We can ask them for a rendering rendering. This would take some time. Um we can definitely ask and if they would wish to
wish to give us a rendering of the next meeting, they will they can or they can't. It's up to them. But I think they heard you. Excuse meeting on the 20th at the same time. 7:15. We haven't continued to We haven't picked the date yet. It It won't be at
the It is not the same time as county. I'm sorry. On Monday. What's your What's your next date for you? We're going to ask if they might need more time. We're not sure yet. That would be after we act on the ANR. Then
we'll figure out what date we will be continuing to. So, I can just call and find out. No, you're going to know. You're going to give us like 10 minutes. We're slow. Okay. If there's no I'd like to follow up with what Steve had to say. Um I
think that uh he was right that um what I've heard about this project. I'm fairly new here, but it uh does seem to me that this uh doesn't fit the uh the benefit of the neighborhood, the existing neighborhood. And um and that's
how I got it. And just so the the neighbors know, it's the level for a special permit for a vote to approve a special permit. We have a seven member board tonight. Um they would need five. Correct. Uh we
need five affirmative votes to approve the special permit. They need a super majority. Tim, did you have something else? I was just going to say between Paul and uh Rich, do we think this is two weeks of bar checking or is it or is it more? And
we just continued two things to the 20th this evening. Does that agenda look really long? Those are the only two items at this point. But it is the day after town meeting, so we'll be in recovery. Um yeah, it's probably going to be a long night Monday. But guess the
question is is on the renderings. I think these other things could be done. Now, that one that we could we'd be able to produce a a nice color up of the of the site and some um typical types of the houses that they'd be looking at. Maybe not the final architectural design drawings, but something that you would
would be representative of the type of structure that they want to put on these properties. That that'd be great if you could do a um aerial view with maybe some distances just from distances from the closest house, distances from the end of the existing street. Any as much
information as we can throw on there if you're going to go through the effort anyway? No, that would be appreciated. That's reasonable. So, do we can take these motions unless there's anything else? I I would be looking for a motion to endorse ANR12
for 19 Rock Lane. So moved. I'll second Eric with the motion. Tim with the second for the first second in a long time probably. Um all in favor I opposed abstensions. One opposed. 641 opposed.
No extensions. Second, we're looking to continue definitive plan one and special permit 21 for 19 Rock Lane to our May 20th meeting. So moved. Seconded. Motion
by Tim, second by Eric. All in favor? I opposed. Abstensions. That's all we have. So May 20th, it'll probably be two items before the two items that were before this one tonight that should have been This will probably be right now at least third in
line. So say around 7:15. It's going to be much later than that. The meeting will start at 7:15. Yeah, probably. We probably start not talking about this until I'll call on bad times. I was going to say we never promise it's
7:15 quick. It's never quick. That's all right. But I can still be here at 7:15. You can that if you want some clarification. Yeah. I believe we have one more item on the agenda. We have a view and vote for the
draft decisions for special permit 19 and site plan SPR 1225 South Street. Yeah, I I have it. Um I sent it out on but um couple things I just wanted to
mention because you all had some conditions you wanted to add here. Um and I just want to point out um that I've done that and have also worked with the uh with the occupant um on this. Um, so there were a few things here about
open space because we have the um we have the land set aside for open space. There are conditions in there such as they need to do a maintenance plan and we've identified that there are home owners association with I'm sorry Paul could you guys just go outside if you could. It's so hard to hear. I kick and
yell but it's just hard to hear. Thank you. So that the the condominium association would be the responsible party for the maintenance of the plan and they have to work on the plan itself and it talks about what would be restricted uh in that area in
its passive uses parks, playgrounds. Um also as as you know that they're they're now providing three affordable units. Um after the meeting, the applicant asked me about the possibility of a payment in L, which was one of the
options he could do on-site. He could do payment in L. Um the challenge that we're still trying to work through is there's an option in the bylaw, but when that bylaw was passed 20 years ago, nobody created a trust for it. So, I'm working with town council. He he's aware
of it. he could still potentially do on site, but I'm checking to see that are there ways that we might be able to get the money before everything. I don't know that that's true, but I want to be able to ask town council that. So, we're not going to vote on this or we not going to We can't I've I've laid it out
as an option that they have the choice of doing the pay or or on site. But obviously, we can only do the payment in blue if we have the system set up for it. I need to just go forward because we're going to see this either way. We have to set it up. We have to um I was
going to a few months ago with 10 West Main Street, but when he decided to go onsite, you know, we put that off, especially with everything else going on. But what's the we've never had a payment l? Never have. I swear we had one
on Mansfield Reservoir. Those single f that subdivision close to the water. No. Well, no. Well, that was your modding plan, so you would not have collected at that point. Okay. So, we haven't collected. Okay. Right. What's
the formula, Paul? Again, sorry. What's the formula for the payment in L? 200,000 perf for 40 unit is a payment in blue. So, it would be a check for 600,000. But you have to set up the trust. You know, who administers it? What can that money be used for? So it's
some action by the select board and few others. So we might in the future be having a representative on that committee on that on that. Is that aunt if we're sending the projects in we don't need to as long as the treasurer
gets the money we don't need to be involved. Yeah. So, um, we'll just work forward, but I think if we have this, I'm going to run this through town council as well, but, um, if we get the option, but we have to
have the trust in in effect in order to do it. Uh, but then all the other language about proper proper regulatory agreement and deed restrictions and everything in here to require that requires those units to remain affordable for a long period of time.
Um, additionally, uh, there was a request to, um, put in language, uh, to make sure that, um, uh, pesticides and herbicides were, uh, was identified. That's probably a good standard to just
start using going forward. Um, I looked at the, uh, the language for zero reservoir, which was what was suggested, but it was very general. So I just went ahead and um re did some research and found what some other communities have
said and came up with this condition that the use of pesticides, herbicides and fertilizer shall be minimized to the greatest extent practicable practicable. The applicant is encouraged to prioritize non-chemical and mechanical weed and pest control methods wherever feasible.
So not a lot of teeth, but it's best we can do. Right. In the case of the reservoir, you were on the reservoir here. It's it's a wetland area, but I mean, unless you want me to say they will do it. Um I've seen other communities that have um it just seems
it's not a lot of teeth to it. I guess if you if you want, I can put teeth in it. We can say that they shall u use pesticides or enough herbicides and fertilizer shall be That's correct. It shall be used instead of no reason to
include something that has no teeth. 19 showing use best. Okay. We'll go with Joe's best practices. I'll I'll work that up. Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. in the um
because the mechanism for taking in the payuba is it really in existence today do we have any business agreeing to anything that we don't know if it can be until such time as we know it can be facilitated I'm not really yeah you you
can I think you could direct me and say no to the pilot uh to the payment department if we didn't want it if you don't want it if you're not comfortable at this point I still have to go forward to get this thing set up, but um I think you're well within your rights to say on
site to construct on site. So keep the keep the units affordable, right? It's just the way you want to see it. We only have a certain amount of time to be able to get the decision files for
that. No, we'll tie you to a little bit of a time frame to get the decision. We have a time. Is it 90 days? 60 days or something? 60 or 90 from the day you close the public hearing. You want to just put it off to the next meeting and then we see what you get. Sure. Because
you got nothing else to do before town. I think um Okay. But I think that was making a live. I'm just saying I say I want to distracted. We shouldn't
I'm making a bad joke. I think the intention at the when we approved it wasn't for for the units to be affordable, right? There wasn't a mechanism. There wasn't a specific uh way in which they
were provided. Then the applicant after said, "Well, like so you have this payment in blue option, but it's like, well, we kind of do. It's in the bylaw, but we didn't discuss it." Right. And I one of the questions I have for town council is is the language in the bylaw
says establishing a trust. Well, did we did the language did the bylaw actually do that? But, you know, I know the accountant has said we don't have a fund itself set up. So, and I know that we don't have a a trust
which is actually, you know, we have to identify the individuals to administer it, but at least before the next meeting, we can probably get town counselor to weigh in, get their opinion, how we would do it, is it feasible, and get those answers, right? And then if it's some paperwork, they're
going to take a while anyway to get to that point. Right. but just like to be able to see what options are out there. It is not set up. And you know, again, this could be a great opportunity for I mean, I'm sorry. You know what? It could be a great opportunity for a nonprofit
housing affordable housing developer. We would be able to supplement, you know, some group some communities use that fund to help construct new affordable, renovate housing, do improvement. Yeah. That I guess is there state law or do we make the law what it's used for? No,
there there's there's there are guidance state has guidance on the the establishment of it. Uh I think it's law. I mean because you're handling funds so we can get that too. We'll know what the Yeah. I mean I have to vote for if
we're going to accept this now or not. I I don't think we too many of us would say no to 600,000 but we didn't talk about it in the meeting. I would think going forward we would talk about that more. Right. And you know, because if we accepted money, we need to make sure it
does not go into general revenue because I'd like to know what it'd be good for, right? Because the bylaw itself, the affordable housing bylaw says it has to be used for affordable housing in some it entirely. So, right. So, whether it's
for construction or renovation, if again, if we just accept the money without having been fully set up, it's just going to sit there and do nothing. or or it goes into general revenue and we would be using the money for a purpose that wasn't established
for. So we want we want to avoid that. So um you know again the applicant um was looking at it but if this becomes a big hurdle then we have to you know we won't be able to go back around at this point but I need to I need to set this
up. Either way we'll have some direction by next meeting. They have time to do it. Yeah, I'd asked town council, but they they didn't come back for today. Yes, sir. I'd say, Mr. Chair, my recollection of our vote when we approved this was that the direction was
for the affordable units, not necessarily payment and loo. So, we definitely didn't talk about it, right? I I can I can review the recording. I believe there one of the members specifically said, "I want the unit."
Okay. Um So, right payment and Lou did not come up. It was just we offered or the the applicant offered to construct the three units in the bylaw. He just saw he just saw in the bylaw
that there were several options and saw the the move. Yeah. But absolutely, we did not discuss payment and move. Either way, we need the opinion of how to set it up. We need to set it up. So, Right. Right. So, I'm working on it, but they need to council needs to help guide us
through that. So, we'll vote on that the next meeting or need a motion to continue. It's not it's not a hearing, so we can just table it. Okay. I think there is another motion when we do need though. I was going to say
before we do that, um, when we did all the elections earlier, I said I would offer to present at town meeting if the chair wanted me to. Do you want me to or do you want to present a town meeting on the 19th? Honestly, I'll give you the option. You step down. It shouldn't be on your shoulders. If you don't want to do it, I'll take my best stab at it and
refer to you if I need you. You're in the You're in the chair now, so it's your decision. Well, you were the chair then. So, I mean, you put a ton of You put a ton of work into it. If you don't want to do it, I will I know Paul's going to be doing some obviously. I am prepared to I would recommend that Tim
does it because he put all the work into it so I can speak to it the best but it would not be inappropriate for you both of you to be I will definitely be up there with you and we can I'll say I just you know we can have that discussion I just became chair Tim was chair at the time he did all the work if that's how that's how you want to do it
I'm fine with it but I'll be there right next to you can I ask for an actual motion on that because I believe in our planning handbook it says that you need a vote if somebody other than the chair presents for a planning board. I move that Tim
present and go to the chair. So the motion is for Tim to make the presentation for the MBTPA communities at the next town meeting. Seconded. So that's a motion and a second. All in favor? I oppose.
Nay. Is that an actual vote? 10 6 to1. Okay. If things don't work, I feel ignored. All right. It was all It was up to you. It was up to you. And then I I I will say you're definitely going to do a better job presenting it than I would, but that's fine. You
definitely have more of a handle. I'll send you my notes. Send me my notes. I'll definitely sarcasm included. I I will be there next year is all I can say. Okay. Now, I don't have any other will be presenting us again next year.
in the next few years. You guys are setting me up tonight. Now I'm done. Motion to adjurnn. Thank you. Second. Thank you. There's a motion and a second. All in favor? I And don't forget to sign a few documents
here. Don't forget to sign the myars on the way