Okay. Uh, I'd like to call uh the board of assessors meeting to order. Uh, it's Wednesday, um, May 13th. It is 5:32. And um I'd like to uh uh the people present this evening are the director of
assessing uh Denise Ellis uh Lucas Ray member and our newest member who just recently got elected in uh the election in uh April. Uh Jim Shabet who um welcome Jim. >> Thank you. A
>> lot of institutional knowledge he has in town. So, welcome and uh report this early. Miss Lucas is welcome. Um okay. Did uh we'll go right into the acceptance of minutes. Did you get a chance? >> Yes, I did.
>> Okay. You okay? >> Yep. >> All right. Like to make a motion >> point not not to start early, but point of order. >> Um I believe we have to start with reorganization. Um, >> which you have nothing to worry about. But that's according to the
>> um, no, Don, for new business. Ed's new business. >> Yeah, but you can't do it that way. You have to do reorganization first after an election. >> I know that you have to >> Let me do a different way then. Uh, motion to take reorganization out of order. >> Is there a second? Okay.
>> Okay. Just I know that Rich D is chairman. I told you nothing to worry about. Just >> All right. Well, um, with that said, why don't we just, uh, go over the minutes of >> You got to finish this. >> Yep. >> You got a chairman and a clerk.
>> Yeah. >> So, what do you want to do? The rework first. Is that what you said? >> Is that what you said? >> You have to do that first. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. All right. I thought you were making a motion. >> No. Well, motion to take it out of order and then a motion for you to be chairman. >> Okay. Um,
but that I'm a little Okay. Um then we need to make a motion. Uh did you make a motion for chair? >> You would be a chairman. Lucas seconded it. >> Okay. Um all those in favor. >> I. >> Okay. I'll abstain.
Um and then um clerk >> make a motion to have Jim Shave as clerk. >> Okay. >> Second. Okay. >> All in favor? 300. All right. That is taken care of. >> Can I see that? >> I apologize. back to normal. Sorry.
>> Okay. Yeah. What do you got? The paper and the pen. >> And um catch um and uh Okay. So, also I I going back Jim um present also
um is um the Arnolds were residents at Six Todd Drive. Uh Linder and Keith. Um thank you. and um we'll be hearing from you. >> Will you send a watch me? >> Um okay. So, the acceptance of minutes. Uh
is there a motion to accept the uh meeting minutes of Wednesday, April 8th? >> Second. >> Okay. All those in favor? 20. And you have to right. >> Okay. Very good.
Thank you. Um any old business, Denise? Um, no. >> Business. >> Okay. And um All right. Then we'll get into the other business um that's on the
agenda. This was um uh given to us by the uh Denise's off the assessor's office. Um actually came from I think it was Kelly that >> Yep. So those go to Kelly. >> So it's um it's I think it's clause 18.
It's a hardship. We talked about um you know we addressed that at a last meeting uh particular resident. This is a new resident and um it's just that she was late in applying so there's really any nothing we can do now. But we sent a
letter and explained it um and um she can um submit um again next year >> but >> yeah but she did request at least we can read her letter um and that's what she
just requested. So, um, >> do we have copies or we just pass it on? >> Just pass it on. I read it. And so, >> and it goes in order. It's her letter and then it's the Kelly's letter back to her and then she wrote another letter. >> I can make copies. Do you want copies?
Is that easier? >> No, cuz I guess we're just going to look at it. >> It's just looking at it. Um, and um, >> just a it was just a request from from her. So, so what we will do is send her another letter explaining it again and um have a
talk to the tax collector, see if she can make arrangement with them and then get her situated for next year. >> Y Yeah, >> that makes sense. Uh >> yeah, >> she does have a hardship, but >> correct. There's nothing we can do.
>> Yeah, and she actually didn't even fill out in the form. She just sent the letter in, but feel bad, but it's just too late. Well, maybe maybe next year we can help her a little bit, but you can't wave the statutory deadline. Correct. Correct. >> Okay. Good. >> Yeah.
>> Thanks. >> All right. Um, next is um we did that that I guess for new business, I'll just mention that we do have this Monday evening the annual town meeting. It's uh town hall. at 7:00
um at the high school rather. Um and the board uh does have a warrant article. I think it's uh number 19, >> I think. So, yes, >> it's the uh this is the clause 22G we talked about. We voted back on December
16th. We uh voted unanimously to uh put this to a town meeting vote. This is for the veterans. It allows them to um put their home uh in a trust
and um get the appropriate exemption for them. Um and but the requirement is that they would live there in the home, >> right? That that's alliterated in state law and we're just adopting the provision.
>> Yep. It's a local adoption required. >> Um the elig eligibility is for the exemption is for real estate that serves as a person's doicile their their primary residence. >> Uh fidiciary ownership uh even if the property is owned by a trustee
conservator or other fidiciary for the person's benefit still qualifies. So um it's just um adding on and gives them a little more latitude >> to protect their their investment >> without that if they put it in the trust they have to forego the the exemption
>> the exemption >> if they're not listed as a trustee >> that's right so this will even if so if they're not listed as trustee for the veterans they can still do it >> so clause 22G will allow the Tom to grant the exemption >> okay so again the main purpose of the
clause is to provide property tax relief to veterans and their surviving spouses who own their homes but have placed the property into a trust for estate planning or other purposes preventing them from being denied a deserved tax
benefit due to the trust's legal ownership. So that will be um at u Monday's uh meeting uh at the high school 7:00. Um, and I just wanted to bring that and let
people know. Um, okay. What do we have, Denise? Uh, for new business continue. We got monthly lists. >> Monthly list. We have um motor vehicle um turnovers and the last of the
abatements and exemptions. >> Okay. >> So, motor vehicle and then abatement and exemptions. >> Okay. Are you familiar with these, Jim? I am okay. So we look at what you expect. >> So what we do um
>> to a point I guess when someone um trades in their car in the middle of the year they come in for an abatement. >> Exactly. Exactly. So we do these daily weekly it depends on the time of year. They're busy. We're busier other times. Um so then we'll have a monthly list at the end of the month and you guys are
just reviewing it and signing off on it. >> The last time I went and did one of those was 40ome years ago. A lot of people don't even realize they can do it. >> I realize they can do it, but I look at it's like, oh, >> yeah, >> it's not enough to >> Sometimes it's just too much paperwork.
>> And then the other one is for all the abatements and exemptions that we did. Um, so that'll be the last of those. >> Okay. So, these uh Oh, these are the motor vehicle ones. >> Those are the motor vehicle. Yep.
>> Cuz I I'm guessing the property ones I wasn't here. I can't sign those. How does that >> uh correct? >> Okay, which is this one here? >> Yeah. >> So, leave that one off. >> Okay. All right. There you go, Lucas.
>> That's Yeah, that. And I think we have next a chapter land. >> So, it's next chapter land. We actually have um the motor vehicle commitment first. >> Oh, okay. Um, and this is the commitment, the
second commitment that just went out for 375,000. This is the second one. We just had one that went out in So, our big one goes out around February every year. That's the big one for the year. >> And then we'll start getting more throughout the years. And this is all everybody that's buying new cars
throughout the years. >> So, every month they get added. >> It's not every month. It depends when the registry sends us the file, but usually every two to three months we'll send another one out. We can end up with like eight or nine by the end of the year. >> And this is what this is the what
representation we make to the treasurer that it's coming or >> Yes. Yep. Ian will um I think we also give one to the town accountant. Okay. >> Because he'll have to, you know, update his his accounts as well. >> Goes to the collector of taxes. >> So it's it just lets them know that that's part of their budget. >> Yeah.
>> Exactly. Yep. What's this? I guess $74.32. Two cents is important. >> Got to get right to the penny. >> Yep. Like getting a bill for a interest of
$160 and you got to write a check and put a 50 cent stamp on it. But you got to do it now. Okay. And then we just this is a um a forest this is a chapter land um it's a forest um application they've we've
actually already approved the application this is just the paperwork um every 10 years if they're in the forest chapter 61 they have to be reertified >> right >> so um the application was done but we finally got the paperwork from the state because it takes forever it takes over a year for this paperwork to get done
>> if you're in the forest program for 5 years you got to wait five more to sell it or you going to pay it back. >> Well, actually, you if you if you ran it for 5 years, then you have to pay the roll back taxes no matter what. >> That's what I mean. Or wait, >> um >> until you come up on the renewal again
>> or renew it, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Exactly. >> So, we just I think it's just your signature, Rick, on that one. I think the application's already in there. Ch I think you signed that already. >> Good thing we did reorganization. You couldn't sign it.
Good point. >> So, I think it's just down the bottom. We have to sign. >> She has a couple spots for you. >> Yeah, it's just uh just myself. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. You're familiar, Jim, with uh Chapter Land.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. tried to buy some here and there and people had to wait for so many years before they could sell it. >> Right. >> And um once you you'll start your modules, you'll see that's Yeah, there's like 10 modules.
>> Actually, we have a former assessor who has 18 acres in that >> just so you know. >> Okay. >> All right. Okay. So, >> the board needs to sign the actual application. >> Oh, okay. I thought you guys already did that one. Sorry.
>> I thought police said you already did it. >> Yeah. Is that also of a prior vote? That's just you two or >> um >> What does it need to be? >> Oh, you that was uh you can
>> Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. So he can review it and um then sign from the green application >> and then the two uh following and Lucas can sign it.
>> I know the guy. Yeah, he's been in there for a while, I believe. >> H >> think he's been in there for a while. >> Oh, yeah. Pretty sure his father was in it before him. books
and I guess that >> Sure. That's all I have. Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. All right. >> Um, so anything the agenda has been met? We have everything. >> Yep. Everything. >> So business is
>> everything I have is all completed. >> All right. Okay. So, um, we do have the Arnolds here and, uh, I and I guess, um, we'll let you have the floor and then we can >> Thank you.
>> Um, >> just your name and addresses. >> All right. Linda Arnold has and um we just came in to request a new um APA
application be submitted because we don't feel it was submitted I mean what do we know fairly enough but anyway um so we had our 2026 abatement was approved
um because Denise came out and um acknowledged the data error that was on there and and the board approved and everything. So, the error was there since we built it and
um we wanted to originally we filed an abatement in 24 that was for the valuation of the garage. The error wasn't there. We didn't know about the error. And so when Denise came out, we talked about the
error and um we're like, okay. And I I submitted a lot of um with my 2026 abatement on the cover. It's, you know, 26 pages in the application because the front page of it says there's two
date errors on it. And that's what we wanted the three-year look back for was the date errors. and >> Mhm. >> what was submitted was the 2024 abatement which was for evaluation
and that was denied. So I don't know why that that had nothing to do with our data error being submitted for um taxes that we paid on something that wasn't there. Um,
>> so, >> so basically we just wanted to have the board or the town manager be filed for us with the attached documents because um, Denise didn't Denise didn't
attach any of my information that I had sent in asking her to attach explaining our case that we're allowed to do. I thought I read we're allowed to explain our case to the state and let the state decide okay maybe it'll be
denied but at least we know that the 2026 that the the state has yes there's a data error because on the property card there's a diagram of the upstairs it says upper story finished on the
diagram underneath on the base charge it says um you know base charge for it's an erroneous amount of Yeah. >> Square footage. So anyway, we want the state to be aware of that and that's the whole basis of it. And um Denise had
written a letter that said the the plans changed um which they never have. We it's our home. We don't >> so >> and so when I called the first time um one of the girls back in 24 I called
23. One of the girls said, "Well, it's a uh I have it all in my records, the date and what they said on the phone." Well, it's a uh upscale garage, so that's why it's that price. So, I'm like, "All right, so let it go." 24, I called again
and different person answered. Um, and same thing. 25, we got the tax bill, we paid it. we you know whatever was going on our family stuff has you know forget what happened but we okay we paid our taxes 26 comes and I'm like wow it went
up again so I'm like I called Denise answers the phone >> gratefully she said base the base level I asked what's the base level charge she said well that's an office that's in there I said there's no office well we just thought there was an office because there's an overhang it's a gorgeous garage I'm like no come on out right
away came out checked it out. No office. Everything's approved. Okay. Please submit my 2026 abatement to the state. If data error is approved, thank you. But no, I got a denial because there was no error submitted.
They approved them usually if there's an error. But let at least let me have a chance. >> Yeah. >> You know, that's my case. >> Anything Denise you want to say? No, I just want to explain like what do you think a clerical era is?
>> Well, when a clerical era would on my property card obvious it it says the picture says upper story, >> right? Which it is, >> right? 360 square ft upper >> and then underneath it says base charge.
Why am I getting charged? >> So, let me read to you what a clerical error is with the state for something like this. So explain you just asking you question but explain what the base is. >> So on a garage like that when I look at the plan. So first of all let me just
say I'm an assessor. I'm not a builder. I'm not an architect. I'm not an engineer. I've never been trained in reading plans. We read them as best we can. And then from there we have to go out and inspect it to make sure we have all the measurements right. That's what we do as assessors. Again I'm not a I I
don't read plans that well. I can only read the the dimensions on it. So, with that said, when I see these garages and I see the way your garage is set up, you have that doorway with the overhang on the outside and a half bath and the way it was um cut out on the plans
being in many garages like that, that's usually a finished area. It's not usually part of the garage, right? So, that would be separate from the garage. It wouldn't be a bay. It would be separate, right? Then on the second floor, you have is finished. So, now how much is it finished? When we when we do
a finished upper story, we start off it's either a full finished, 3/4 finished, or a half story finished. In your particular garage, kind of looks like a half story, but then you have the windows and it bumps out. So, we would go 3/4. And then from there, once we
inspect it and kind of do some measurements, then we'll figure out how much square footage is up there. >> Right. But so, I I agree. I get what you're saying, what a data data error is. But you approved it. You approved you approved that. Yes, the base comes off. You approved it. So, we're all set
there, right? >> So, you did a great job. Everything's fine. Anybody can make a mist. It's who knows how it got in there. But now, the next step is to submit this. Let the state say there's no data error. >> Just let them say that. Then we'll be happy. That's all we wanted from
>> Well, I think they said that on your on your sheet. >> But they said that because they didn't have any of my information. They had false information. They had they had a letter from you and I underlined it and I made copies for everybody
>> stating that our our plans have changed which wasn't true. We have one builder I I can get an affidavit from him and I if I have to and the plans have changed which never happened. Um what else is on here? The garage would include an
office. Absolutely never imagined an office being in there. It's his >> what she's done. The next one says um that this this was submitted and they denied it because of valuation
not because the state never even had it says in the first paragraph. This was submitted. This is my 2024 one. Why? >> Because let me explain why. >> Can I get some clarification first? >> Yeah, that's why I thought I just did.
Oh, okay. >> Sorry. It's okay. >> Um, I'm seeing a couple of things here and I and I understand the part about written plans. I'm not trying to cast any espersions or anything, but what I'm seeing here is a garage built according
to the plans and the property card is reversed >> from what the plans show. >> Exactly. >> What do you mean? I don't know what you mean. >> Okay. the the plans are showing um a beam and a raised area um above that the taller garage door.
>> Right. Right. >> Right. And the card is showing it flipped over. It's showing the picture of the garage and then the >> No. No. What that's cutting out. It's cutting out um where I was saying that looked like on the first floor beside the base. When you look at that picture,
you see the doorway. Okay. >> So that's what that is. >> That has nothing to do with the other side. >> Yes. It has it says on hang on. >> Um >> Okay. So, >> so what we do when we do the plans, we
we break them out. We break out the sketch. So, cuz we had to do first floor >> and second floor. So, on that part that you're seeing on that sketch, was it 12 by >> 12 by? So, that's where the door is going in. So, that's what we assumed was going to be
>> like a sitting area, office, whatever you're going to use because the bathroom was there. Usually it's blocked off. >> Didn't show one there. >> No, >> it says it says upper story. It says USF right on >> up a story. Yeah. Well, it is up a story finished. >> I'm getting charged
>> because I just explained why I just said did that because it look I just said that what happens when I'm in all these garages cuz plans change all the time. When I'm in these garages and we see the half bathroom there and the staircase is there, usually there's a wall there, especially where that door is set up and
we didn't get in. So, we're assuming that's what it's going to look like because usually that's what it is. I've never seen >> an error. >> I'm not saying that's an error at all. I'm saying that's my opinion. >> I haven't finished yet. If I could take this. >> Okay. Thanks. Um, yeah. And like I said,
I'm not cast any aspirations about reading plans or anything like that. just trying to >> see if there's a way forward. >> Um >> but I guess I and I guess um I guess what I'm saying is though we do have an actual
error. >> It's not an error. So technically by the state it's not an error because it's my opinion of value. All right. So >> no I understand that we're talking about according to the state >> but that part was fixed. So it >> that's Yes, that's that's the what I'm
trying to get at. >> Oh yeah, it's all been fixed. >> That's what I'm trying to get at. So since >> Yeah, >> we had that there. >> Um and I'd rather use another word cuz I'm not trying to I'm not trying to throw stones, but >> No. So let me let me explain.
>> So there was assumed to be an office there and it wasn't there for whatever reason. >> Right. >> Okay. And in at this abatement request, we said, "Yeah, it's not there." And we fixed it. Right. Is that correct? >> On the on the 26. Yes.
>> Okay. So, what they're saying is under >> 58 section six, I think. >> 58. >> Okay. >> That because of the nature >> Yeah. >> of it, they're entitled to appeal to the
state to get two more years back. And I I I think we should tell the state what what happened. And >> so one thing I'd like to say about this case too, Jim, and um so 2026 we f you know the the Arnolds filed their
abatement. We approved their abatement. Mrs. Ellis was able to uh do an inspection inside the garage. She she realized that there were errors on the property card which then you know the board decided they have been getting overcharged. um there was errors on the card, you know, whether it be they
couldn't read the plans or whatever the issue was. >> So, they were entitled to file, you know, 588 application. >> Mr. Sheen, that's one thing I want to make clear. However the errors got there, >> doesn't matter. >> Not worry about it. That's okay. >> There was a $200,000 adjustment.
>> I sense you're getting defensive about >> No, I'm not getting defense. I'm just trying I want to try to explain to him like this is more stealing. So, >> but but mistakes happen. Error's happening. >> Absolutely. the the there was an inspection by Felicia, an initial inspection um you know on
this property before the garage was finished. So she was Felicia did get in there um in 23 or 24 when they were building the garage. So you know how many inspections does the assessor have to get into see a simple garage? I mean I mean >> until it's complete.
>> Okay. Well I mean it's a simple square box. So my opinion you know they should just review the plans. The bottom line is there was an error on the property card. We approved an abatement. We then submitted a 588 application. It's my, you know, it's my opinion that,
you know, the Arnolds weren't, we didn't, you know, submit everything we should have. We should have submitted all their information. We should have submitted the 2026 uh approved abatement to the state. So, the state had all the information. uh the the submission the submission that
uh Denise filed with the state. You can see right there it says that you know they they denied entry and you know she wasn't able to access the the building. But the bottom line is that was for the valuation of the garage in 23 or 24. You know the error was found in 26. Correct? Yeah.
>> Yeah. So the error was found in 26. >> Mr. Chair, >> I got it. Yeah. I I also saw and and there's probably an explanation, but uh there was a denial letter >> in February. >> So, in 2020 in 2024, they filed for an
abatement. >> Part of the abatement process is to do a full inspection on the property. If they refuse entry, we there's nothing we can do. >> Correct. >> So, it's denied. >> Well, it's denied. It's denied by the law. Well, according to the law, we can approve it or deny it, but they cannot
appeal it. >> It's at the discretion of the board whether or not but but the refusal of inspection >> takes away your appeal to the appellet. >> To the appellet. Yes. >> Right. But how do you how do you abate something that you don't see? That's
what I'm saying. Just not >> refusal of entry does not guarantee a denial. It's up to the discretion board. What I've noticed though, and I just curious that the denial letter was in February of 24. It said vote of the
assessor February 24. Then it says the attempted inspection was May of 24. I don't know. Is that a typo or >> um No. So she we were out there twice. >> Okay. >> We were out there twice. So three times actually. The first time was under
construction >> and Felicia came in. >> The second time I met her. >> The second time she was there. there was nobody nobody home. She left a card. You called and you said, "No, you can't come in." My husband, >> right? And then the abatement. So those were two times in one year that we were denied entry. >> Um
>> and that was just curiosity. But as a statement, I would I would say that anything to do with anything in the past shouldn't be on the letter to the state, >> right? Well, it should be because that's an important part of it. They're going back for 24 and 25. They want money back for those years. So yes, you have to put
that in. So here's the deal. If we've been overcharging, if we've been overcharging a a taxpayer for the last 3 years because of a clerical error made by the town, I don't care if Mrs. Ellis had access to that building at all. It doesn't matter to me. We were making an error. We made an error as a town. We
overcharged these folks. We should submit their refund and they should be approved. >> I don't see an issue. >> 100%. It's, you know, I I want to make a motion to resubmit this. >> Wait, I don't give you a new >> a new application. That was my question.
Do we have to do what's the mechanism? Can we resubmit the off the denial? >> No, that isn't preferred because that wouldn't be fair because this is a whole new issue. with a whole new abatement
following new year and we we would be requesting that the three gentlemen please file it because back in March I sent the town manager an email because I I had heard uh
either in probably in Denise's office or some I've been in there a few times because we wouldn't let her in. I had a bad feeling. Um, and I didn't think she was going to file the 58A on our behalf. The the uh the the citizen of the town
can't get in the DLS. I can't get in there. So, I I'm at the mercy of her to file my documents the way that it really happened for me. I have it all written down. January 27th, January 30th, February 18th, I have it right here. She wouldn't file, she didn't file anything.
I asked the town manager in March for oversight. I said, "Uh, Mr. G, please go. Please check with make sure Denise submitted everything with my approved abatement for 2026. He didn't even read my email. This is another layer of of u
issue that we're having. He didn't read my email. He didn't know even know who we were when we went in to meet him for the first time and welcome him to the town. Uh very nice, you know, maybe he was just too busy, but whatever. So he I didn't get oversight from him. So now I'm requesting you three gentlemen or
one of you, you can get in the DLS, file the 58, attach the documents. If they say no, they say if they say no, it's not the date, then fine. We're okay then. I understand. But submitting something from 24 that was way back in
our file and and not submitting any of anything about the error. The whole point was for the error. >> That's not true. It is in there. that the all the property right cards are in there and I already >> It does. It says in the letters are in there but her letter says in the letter
was not in that excuse me I'm talking >> her letter was not in that filing and her 2026 abatement approval was not in that filing. You should have filed that. Okay. You did that intentionally. >> Punish usually. Wait a second. Let's get let's get let's just
>> can we stick together the actual >> so let's let's try to >> um get a solution >> I would like it refiled I would like even if Denise does the template and then we look at the template before submitted I think it should have been brought the filing should have been
brought in front of the board so we could have reviewed it before we filed it and I certainly would have picked up that you know some of the information was missing and I'm sure you would have as well Rick so you know and then we could have added that information we could have added the 2026 abatement. We could have added all the information that the Arnolds provided to the state
and let the state make a decision and it is what it is with the state. If they approve it or deny it, it's up to them. We shouldn't be putting our finger on the scale with the state. So, >> I don't care if you resubmit. It doesn't matter to me. I don't >> Let's M Mr. Y >> I I earlier I had said something about let's just get to the facts and I'm just
hoping that we can look at this and and other things as what are the facts and make sure they're right and whatever happened or whatever we we don't worry about that and just if it helps the
Arnolds I I can remember a time I was on the planning board and we were um working on a modification to allow Dunkin Donuts in the Roach Brothers Plaza and people came in from the um trailer park out back complaining that trucks were parked out back idling and
they literally couldn't breathe. And I said, "Well, this is the planning board and what you need to do is go to the board of health." >> And they immediately started screaming, "You don't care." >> And it wasn't the case. And same with the town manager. He really
>> he can't get into every department in the town. Um and and here same thing. Um that's what we're here for. Um and let let's see if we can get the facts straight and and go forward. Does that
does that make sense? >> I think. >> Yeah. But part of the facts are that they didn't let us in. That's very important in the assessing world. We have to get into to to make sure all this information is right. >> I understand that. But for the purposes of section 8,
>> that is up to the that's up to the state. So all we can do is give them the information. They have to have the information that we didn't get in >> all the information. >> I I had already submitted everything when you sent everything. I had no problem submitting everything. I I submitted the property record cards with
the new values. >> You submitted a native letter. >> Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Lucas, you've been my >> All we're going to do is raise the temperature. Let's not >> let's not do right. >> Sorry, I'm not the champ. >> Let's um try to help. >> Let's
>> There's one person raising the >> Let's do this. Lucas, you've been the contact for the house. >> Get the information that they um are recommending to be put together. Submit for submittal.
>> We'll sit sit at it, review it. Denise, are you okay with submitting it? >> Submitting it. Okay. >> Okay. So this time we'll write it up, >> right? >> We'll discuss it and vote. >> Yep. >> And >> Yep. >> And this really is is going to be going forward. It's the
>> And if we get if we get it wrong this time, you can hang all of us. >> Right. But >> Right. >> And you'll be and you'll be satisfied. >> Yeah. >> Whatever. >> And before we submit anything, um we're going to review it as a board. We're going to review the submission >> and decide whether or not, you know,
it's appropriate and it >> Yeah. and then we submit it accordingly and the state you know votes how the state votes that's it >> just towards that if I could add just one second >> sorry I just wanted to introduce myself
I apologize for walking in late Shannon McMahon I'm the assistant town manager I just wanted to address I had emailed you um and I know I got your email back um the town manager did ask me to look into this and I have an attorney um I was able to um and I believe that everything
that's being said right now is exactly what was in the letter. Um resubmission is absolutely appropriate if you think there's additional um or is same um as I said to you in the email uh a
friend of mine is on the ATV um and he said in his honest opinion that it may be you may have a better chance at an ATB because you're in front of a single justice and you have more of time to plead your case. Now, that doesn't mean you can't do the 58.
>> Yeah. >> Again, >> but you should also keep that in mind as another revenue. >> But does the ATB allow you to go back the additional two years? >> I they >> I don't think they do. >> They haven't banned it. And he said he's it's never been
>> it's never been done. But >> I think we should stick with the 58. >> I tend to agree with the resubmission, but that's also another avenue you can take. Um, >> but I also agree that the prior I mean because what the state is going to look for as is to whether or not there was an
abatement in the past that was applied for and whether it was rejected on walkounds. So the 24 and the 25 would have to go in the package. But I can also understand that you feel that there's additional information that you wish had gone in the package. Is that
accurate? It is, but I'm not sure that an abatement for valuation would have why would they need any now the data error was just discovered and it was still there even though we didn't
let them. >> So, it's because of the burden shifting. So, what 59 does is it takes the burden over and puts it on you upon applying for the abatement. And that's where that um that's where the burden shifts to the homeowner to allow the assessor to come in effect.
>> I get it. >> If that doesn't happen, then it's kind of dead water. >> Um and that's what they look for. They look for the rationale behind >> the denial, which would be >> that. So it has to go in otherwise it's not giving the state proper picture of
why it was denied. >> So I do agree that the priors have to go in. I can also see your perspective that you have some subjective information that you would like shared if that helps your cause. Um, so I think all of these things can be met. It sounds like >> The other thing I'd like to say is um in
the initial submission by Denise, she said that the plans changed. >> I'd like confirmation on that. I'd like to see some sort of confirmation. >> In my opinion, so excuse me. In my opinion, they were because that's how I read them. So, and again it's it's
>> I said that right away. I'm not So, this is how I read them. So, it's not an erans did not change. So, if the plans did not change the way and you can't you don't know how to read the plans, that's a different situation one way or the other. >> I know how to I know how to read plans,
but when it comes to the second floor in different things, it's it's my opinion of what I think it's there. So, it's not a clerical error on my opinion. But you said the plans changed. >> In my opinion, I thought they had because I thought
I think that's the point that factually they didn't change. Can't say they did >> to the state. If we could No, he can change all that. That's fine. I Whatever you guys want to do, it doesn't matter to me. >> We should not be telling the state. >> I mean, you wanted me to write a letter, so I wrote the letter. So,
>> we just want to do the right thing in the city. We don't want >> I totally agree with you. >> Okay. >> Sure. I'm not against any of it. Um, whatever you guys want to do. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you for listening. >> Yeah, cuz I Well, we're going to beat
this around and around, but I think I think the right solution would be to >> we'll have another go at it and let's all agree. >> Yeah, >> sure. Sounds like a plan to me. So, I'll get the information from the Arnolds that they, you know, the information
they want submitted and then um, you know, I'll pass it on to you guys and then then we'll have to resubmit as a new application. >> And that was you might be better. We can resubmit. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. I didn't want to I didn't
want to be talking about something we can't do. I mean, that doesn't make any sense. >> Under under a new, not a resubmitt, a new a brand. I think we should do a brand new submission because the state's under the impression that the plans changed what they did not you know that there wasn't you know and that's that's
a critical think that's an important >> that could be a concern with filing they're aware of the first one >> right I think we need to amend you >> otherwise the state's going to look at it like >> is >> you got the same guys telling me what they're telling me I think >> there should be a new submission
>> then there should be a new submission admitting the error like something like oh well we're you know Denise should admit that the plans did not change. We could go to the build inspector. We could look at the original submission for the building of this property and we can look at the final product and we can prove that the plans didn't change.
>> Okay. That's not what it's said at issue though whether we amend or file new. >> Yeah. >> And my concern with filing new is it creates confusion. Amending is saying to >> something drastic >> is saying to the whoever it is at the state, look
>> what we sent you before, we're changing our testimony. Well, let me look into it tonight and I can email the board. Um I think I've all the information see if um see which avenue >> may be better for for for you folks.
>> Luke, you know what I'm saying? We're saying the same thing. It's just >> I don't think it matters if you do a new submission. If you had an abatement request and something changed and they wanted to amend it before we heard it. Okay. But if they submitted another one, we'd
probably look at it go, "What are you doing?" So that that was my concern there. >> Yeah. You don't want it to get thrown away. >> I don't think making amendment. >> Yeah. We don't want to get thrown away because we asked, Ron. >> Yeah. I don't think making an amendment makes a difference. I mean, it's you know, we're we're including additional information that wasn't on the first
submission. >> Well, Shannon will clarify. I'll >> clarify. Okay. >> All right. >> All right. >> And again, I apologize if anyone introduce myself cuz I know we've emailed each other back and forth and I know I came in late and I didn't get a chance to introduce myself.
>> All right. >> Do you want to have you have copy anything you want? >> Is this what you want submitted? >> So I we got to go through this email address. >> Do you want to email You want to email it over?
So, everything you want, yeah, just email it to the full board and >> everything you want submitted, just email to the board and >> we'll review it. >> We'll make we'll review it and >> All right. >> Okay. If there's any changes or any updates, so we'll let you know. >> I mean, it's a slim chance, but at least we feel like we gave it,
>> you know, they got the info and >> Yep. >> All right. Good luck to you. >> Have a good night. >> All right. Um, I think that should uh be it for tonight's meeting. One other thing I want to bring up. What about the property codes? I still haven't seen
those on the uh website. Uh >> oh, we're switching over websites. I haven't done anything. That that's been a nightmare. >> A couple months ago, so I can't update the website because if I do, when they turn the new website over, none of it's going to be there. >> So, I'm going to have to double
everything. Um, >> so what we're doing is writing the future one. >> No, they can't touch other words right now. Yeah, >> they can't touch the >> No, that's what I mean. The existing one is done because we're writing the future one. >> We are, but because I I just don't want
to have this conversation all >> Oh, so do you want to? >> So, Jim, but one thing, you know, I want to just mention to Jim. So, what I was saying is the the property cards, you know, there's a lot of codes there, three-digit codes, and you know, >> I don't even know what some of them are.
So I'd like I'd like for you know all those codes to be described the definition in on the town site. So when someone's reading the property card they can say what is this? What does USF mean? You know what is you know >> Yep. >> And and it's just common sense. >> We agreed that would sense that could
cause somebody to file an abatement but could also cause somebody who's thinking of filing abatement reading the whole thing and saying no. >> Which >> Sure. >> Yep. Yep. >> Yeah. Any suggestions for the website? I've got it all in a folder ready to put on there once everything's all set. So, >> yeah,
>> when that's going to be hopefully soon. >> Well, I noticed even the emails are changing, too. >> Our emails >> y >> Okay, >> you're all set. You got the new one. >> Right. All right. I think we're all set. Is that Can we hear have a motion to adjourn? A second.
>> Okay. All those in favor? >> Unanimous. >> Uh, next meeting. Can we put policies