um call the meeting to order we have uh Mr Snider Mr Maran Mr rich and myself I believe Denise is on our way uh she should be here shortly and as always we're going to start with a pledge of allegiance pledge allegiance to the plan
of United States of America Republic by which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you Mr Mayor welcome welcome so we're going to start off with
appointments of resignations retirements um and the appointment of Stella young as a full-time assistant town clerk um Mr to do you want to say anything on this so uh we have a lot of candidates that uh Jay and I interviewed
and uh we're glad to uh bring Stella tonight to uh she's willing to accept this position and we think she'll be great Dr yep we interviewed about 15 or so applicants and Stella came highly
recommended she has extensive experience as a admin assistant of customer service and recordkeeping um she lives in Bridgewater so that's part commute and we're excited to have her on board excellent Mr snedger anything
El uh sure Mr chair uh I'd like to make a motion uh to accept the appointment of Stella young as full-time assistant town clerk second okay motion a second all in
favor opposed all right excellent than welcome thank you okay and now we have the appointment of Michael Harrington I'm sorry hington as Constable yeah
uh Michael has a number of letters that are in your packet from uh people that uh have spoken and I about his character and Michael also uh had a background check done by the police department okay excellent um any
questions from the board on this Mr chair um this is for Mike Mike how many constables do we have this will be our four and that's the max perfect and uh Michael it looks like you're a uh reading your letters it
looks like you're a uh what's that number five and we have five Max okay um it looks like you're a great neighbor you got uh your neighbors uh speak highly of you in in your letters thank you um I don't have any other questions
no Mr chair for you just thank you for all the all the letters and for your uh uh the letters from your references and also your letter that you typed out thank you appreciate that you're welcome
y Mr chair Mr I'd like to make a motion to uh accept the appointment of Michael Hanigan uh as the town coun second all in favor I I opposed okay congratulations and thank you thank you okay uh we have an appointment of
Janice burkart as Town historian J here PA would you like to I think she she does I'm not sure if she's aware if she's supposed to be here but uh Jan is
the president of the historical society and the board of directors decided that from now on we probably should historians should probably be the president of the society so we we nominated Jan to take the we uh position
uh George y as we all know passed away about a year ago and he was he was amazing he had he he knew so much about the town he was a a great loss the community with somebody with that amount of of uh vast amount of information he had in his head and he
had it to the day he passed so but Jan's second runner up she uh she's very good she's very uh very much involved in town she grew up here she was born here so she's uh going to bring a lot of credibility to that position and I think it's great that she was
nominated so I would think that any motion would be uh with the stipulation that she's agreed and approved that she wants to be in this position she want okay Mr chair and Mr I'd like to make a mo a motion to um accept the appointment
of Janice Burkhart as the town historian second okay all in favor I I opposed all right excellent next up is the appointment of uh Conor um hcky as a civilian traffic control
Personnel good good evening uh Mr heg is not here tonight but it's uh it's just an appointment to the civilian traffic control unit um as you know we established it a couple of years ago uh heg a Norton resident is a is a current student at BCC and actually has some
experience doing this working for another Community okay any questions Mr chair Mr SM i' like to make a motion to accept the appointment of Connor hegy as a civilian traffic control Personnel person second all in
favor I I oppos all right thank you thank you okay now next up is appointment of Alisa v v to the Recreation Commission did I say that right she no she can't and um I just
wanted to say that um Melissa um recommends this appointment and she currently serves on um the town uh tricentennial committee our Founders Day
committee and this way it'll it'll be easier they only have two people on there and they both agree to become on Recreation Commission okay any questions Mr chair Mr SM I'd like to make a motion uh to accept the
appointment of Alish Shi uh to the Recreation Commission second all in favor I I post all right excellent and now we have the appointment of the time recording secretary I'm going to let Mr unit pronounce
this L Lindsay lindsy Dex all right Lindsay let me try Lindsay dexra Close Dexter there okay and uh this position is um a part-time recording secretary so mainly for the
finance committee and uh if uh we need anyone to do any uh meetings at any time she could do do that too but mainly the finance committee meetings okay any questions folks all right Mr chair Mr i' like to
make a a motion to accept the appointment of Lindsay Dex Strater um as a part-time recording secretary second all in favor I I oppos excellent thank you
excuse all right and finally we have the resignation of the Building Commissioner Mr un would you like to speak to this y uh unfortunately uh Nick AFR is going to be leaving us shortly to take a position in another
Community uh Nick's done a great job uh in the position and has been very helpful throughout the building projects and uh it's just been a great person to work with I think everyone in the town hall will tell you that and uh we are going to miss
Nick um I I can say my personal experience with Nick uh started when he first came on with a property I manage professionally with my my business um he's been fantastic with that and then when I came on the select board he's been nothing but but um I believe phenomenal in this job so I definely
going be missed definitely Mr chair Mr Mar um I would uh just like to thank Nick for your years of service here um sometimes you're uh the work you do isn't appreciated by some but I can tell
you that I know that I do and U you are going to be solely missed and hard to replace so thank youate so I got a question for Mike if we don't accept this does he have to say I think that's the rules I don't know Nick thank you very much you've
been phenomenal thank you good luck in thank you the community you're going thank you yeah Mr chair I'll just Echo everyone's comments that Nick's been great to work with so we are going to miss him absolutely thanks Nick all right anyone else no all right thank you
Nick um thank you for everything thank you okay next up we have the the minutes for January 16th and January 30th um everybody get a chance to look these over Mr chair Mr Maron I make a motion
that we accept the minutes of January 16th second uh all in fer opposed okay Mr chair Mr s um I hate to go backwards but I just had a question about the Building Commissioner
resignation for Mike um sorry about that um but uh so we're obviously post this position because it's an important position do we have any thoughts on candidates internal candidates anything like that is it too soon for all that um we don't have any intern internal
candidates cuz we don't have a local right now uh Nick was the local inspector at one point and moved up um so we are hoping people come forward okay thank you thanks Mr chair sorry Mr chair Mr I make a motion we
accept am minut of January 30th second all in favor opposed all right next up we have the review and discuss a vote to approve the special events uh parade permit for um oh R for
kids uh the r ride for kids schedule for Saturday May 17th with a rain date of Sunday May 18th 2025 from 8:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Mr CH Mary Ellen blue is on if she uh wants to speak about
it well this is the 35th ride that Rodman is holding so um it begins in Foxboro and it ends in Foxboro there's a 25 and a 50 mile uh bike ride fundraiser and I believe we just go through the
town of Norton there's no signs or banners and I know they have the police detail and um it's a great event you raise a lot of money for all the Charities I think it's a fantastic event
and I believe the past couple years it's caused um what zero delays in traffic or something like that there's been no complaints um which never happens so uh I'm a fan of this so go ahead anyone else uh Mr chair Mr Mery um I know that
it uh only affects the uh Bay Road area in town it comes into town on Bay Road and leaves on Bay Road so it doesn't have any uh impact on the center of town at all or any other part of town so um
and I also um think that the uh ride for kids is is an amazing event put on by a group of uh amazing people so u i unless anybody has any other thing to say I would make a motion that we
uh approve the uh special events and grade permit application for Rod and ride for kids for Saturday May 17th 2025 second okay motion to the second all in favor hi I post all right so
thank you so much great okay thank you okay uh next we're going to open the public hearing for the application of turnike Auto Sales DVA Furnace Brook motors for a class two license to buy sell exchange or assemble secondhand Motor Vehicles or parts thereof in
accordance with the provisions of chapter 140 and the mass J allows to be utilized at 50 Pleasant Street Norton and who do we have here my name is Jacob Stone J how are you today how are you you can go ahead and let us know what
you're yeah I purchased a property located at 50 Pleasant Street in Norton and my intent is to put a second used car dealership there I have one location right now in Easton right on Route 106 and I found that this property would be great to open up the second location uh
currently it was the Oasis they will no longer be there and how would hope to put a Ed car dealership there and in the future the near future hoping the property is larger than what I need it to be so I'd like to look for other tenants such as urgent cares or
something that benefits the community um any questions from the board here um I do have a question hang on a second I'm looking for a page here um so will you be doing any work on any Vehicles there no sir
okay so you you basically just bringing in vehicles selling them and well we have a a mechanic right up the street electrical motor um uh specialist he's located at 1076 out in Ador 1076 Pleasant Street in
adoro and it's about a 1 minute drive from 50 Pleasant Street so it' be very convenient and he's very thorough he's a licensed mechanic currently using him for all the cars that I sell in Easton got you Mr
chair uh is did you close on the property yes I have you did close well congratulations I appreciate that and uh do you have any improvements planned for the property in the future yes um small things like Windows flooring things like
that and hoping when I do find a second tenant if I do find a second tenant that they'd be willing to do some of the improvements as well okay excellent um any of questions for the board so um if I could um when you do um if
you make your motion to approve um I would based on uh the plan that we have in the parking spaces I would uh recommend that you set a limit of no more than 73 vehicles why is that
like um so there's a couple handicap spots or four handicap spots and then there's um spots in back that should be used for the U workers at the site and
that would leave 73 spaces left for used cars so in in the event he uh does get a tenant they're going to need some pocking as well I'm sure accommodate that when that time comes of course yeah
so Mr chair Mr Mar um are you looking to put 100 vehicles on to for sale on this lot and the here now today it would be ideal um but if you could a tenant you wouldn't be able to that would be
correct if if I'm not mistaken your your current dealership is right near the uh the dam right that's y That's a tight spot you said that's a tight spot it's a tight spot how many veh are there cuz I know that dealership it's um licensed for 27
[Music] cars it's been there forever how long have you owned it it's been about 10 years yeah it's a good name as far as I know we're trying to be that's what we try to be yeah and it should continue that way yeah are you familiar with no
we all right any further questions on the board if not I'll open up to the uh audience if anybody has any questions on this no all right then I'll look to close a public hearing Mr chair Mr Maron make a motion
we close the public hearing for furnish Brook Motors second all right all in favor I I post all right thank you very much thank you guys I'm just going to abstain cuz I missed the
conversation okay uh any discussion or motions Mr chair Mr rich I guess to Mike 73 spaces would be recommended as as Nick seen this and yeah
[Music] Nick I'm sorry since we close the public hearing we can't have you come up and speak to it official up to you me I know I'm sorry don't be sorry you don't we we I would to go through Mike
because Mike has part and I see everybody signed off this was uh reviewed that's where the recommendation came from okay the yellow spots would be handicap and
uh workers atly okay that see I believe I have the same copy right here okay Mr chair Mr s um just through you so you know Mike this would still be subject to inspection and safety and all that kind of stuff on the building
inspector so it's not like it's 73 spaces in perpetuity if there's an issue right okay okay Mr chair Mr Senator um I'd like to make a motion um
to accept the application of Turnpike Auto Sales Incorporated DBA Furnace Brook motors for Class 2 license to buy sell exchange or assemble secondhand Motor Vehicles for parts thereof in accordance with the provisions of chapter 140 of the
Massachusetts general laws to be utilized at 50 Pleasant Street noron Massachusetts uh with a um capacity of 73 vehicles for display and sale okay second okay uh Motion in
second all in favor I I opposed extensions I thank you very much congratul good luck thank you good luck welcome to Norton thank you all right I know it's under new business but this has been on the agenda
and off the agenda 500 times maybe so far um building permit fees and Department fees [Music] umig if you look in your packets it's it's pretty much a lot of what we have
we've had before I know um we have a resident here that actually brought this to our attention um my position on this last time was that we should start if we're going to do any changes we should start slow um and kind of do a little bit closer to
what Manfield does I think it was the what was it the roofing siding in um Windows um to remove the flat fee and to just have it as the uh the per the per
thousand um so does anybody have any thoughts on these Mr chairman Mr just as I've said before um when Nick was here previously um I
believe uh he gave a good presentation that we are um comparable to other communities our size and uh we haven't raised our Fe in six years and later on tonight we'll I'll be reviewing uh
budget with you which we're having trouble to even fund a 3% budget and now we're going to uh reduce our fees I I just don't think it's wise okay anyone else have U questions
on this or comments yeah U Mr chair um Mike have we had any complaints or Communications from contractors about our fees being you know out of line with other communities
only from one contractor no one else has complained to me about it okay Mr chair okay Mr Rich do we have numbers of what the actual difference would be on an annual basis if we were do
uh adting I know we got a spreadsheet here um and it really kidding to that yeah come yeah please I know this is something we were going back and forth on and initially
there you weren't able because of the systems to to get an exact number but now spend some time yeah so I ran a report I say I myself and Kathy in my office ran a quick report so from July 1st of
2024 through February 25th believe that was yesterday or the day before um I pulled a report of all what we call now is a residential short form application so it's a simple
form for roofing siding windows and doors um the total number number of permits that we've issued in that time frame were 289 permits total fees collected was $ 67,5 so that fee calculation right now
is a per thousand the $50 base fee and then $10 per th000 based off the overall cost of construction on the project which the contractors are obligated to supply that number as part of the application process then we ran some numbers so if if I took
289 permits for those four scopes of work and we did it as a flat fee of $50 we would have collected $4,450 for a total difference of $3,300 if we did a flat fee of $75 per
application for those four Scopes we would have collected $2,675 for a difference of $46,500 and then if we did a flat fee of $100 per application for those four for those four Scopes we would have collected
$28,900 for a difference of $38,750 so I was asked to do this I told you in the last meeting and every other meeting we've talked about this before my opinion makes no difference here because it's of no gain or loss to my
professional job in this town based off what the perit fees are my myob job and my weekly paycheck is my weekly paycheck whether we bring in $5 in the permitting department or we bring in 5 million so personally it's really not up to me um
and again we've goone back and forth I think 12 plus months on this easily yeah um I think like Mike said there there's two ways to look at this um it's been six years since this board
obviously made up of other people at that time but since this board with we'll call the suggestion of the building commission at the time um voted to create the fee schedule the way it was um and I said before every 3 to four
years we're asked to review our fees to make sure that we line with other communities as a whole um we found no need to do that due to the you know the the climate for lack of
better term with the pandemic and everything else and when we did do that we kind of aligned I think Lucas had ran his own report I took his and then elaborated on it and I think I ran about 22 towns um a budding towns
and some that were comparable and others that he had in his report and based off of my calculations out of 22 towns we landed number 11 so for what it's worth I guess now that my resignation is given my opinion
to be honest with you is you should want to land right in the middle you don't want to be the most expensive but the same time that's it's up to you if you want to be the cheapest that's not up to me as the board you can make that decision but these numbers based off of the most recent discussion of what
permit fees we should really be taking a look at which are those for Windows roof insiding indoors um you can see kind of a rough estimate as to where you'll be with what you'll gain if you leave it the way it is and what you lose if you change to a
5 ft so again those numbers were all for residential not commercial rate just residential I didn't pull anything for commercial okay so what you're saying is if you're just going on just the base fee um it would have been 14,000 rather
than 67 is what you said mhm if we did a flat fee so right now we do a base fee so your minimum permit fee is $50 right then if if your permit is under a th000 if your cost of construction is under 1,000 bucks your
your minimum fee is $50 so anything over ,000 we add $10 per thousand to that essentially so if you did just a flat fee of $50 and charge no more no matter what the cost of the project was it's 50 bucks to do roof ins siding windows or
doors you would have collected $4,450 okay um so so so the percentage above you know was $10 per th000 for those right so that would end up being 53,000 so um if we got rid my my contention would be to get rid of the
base fee um unless it's under a th000 and just have a plat fee of $10 whatever it is um we'd still be bringing in 53,000 rather than 67 so it's only really a a shortfall of 14,000 if we got rid of the base fees just for those so
that I mean that's my recommend but um you know again I'll open it up to anybody who wants to discuss that too explain that again because I'm saying that okay so so um Nick had said that if you're just doing the base fee you're taking in
14,000 but with the base fee plus the the per th000 you're taking in 67,000 so that says that says the base fee is $144,000 so we get rid of the base fee and you're still taking $53,000
that's that to me reasonable I me I think it's reasonable well I guess I'd have to do the math I'm a little confused by that because what I'm looking you said that the base feed if we were just going by the base feed it's $144,000 yeah but so so not to
interrupt you so basically if you took 289 permits currently the number is 67750 right you you I'd have to sit down I again ultimately it's up to you guys so I this
is just the num I'm going by your numbers if you said the base fees were $14,000 if we just get base fees alone is 14 grand um then I would say let's get rid of the base fees and just stick to the per thousand and that leaves us with 53,000 still um on under those
which again I think is very more than reasonable um what is that but but I would I would also say that there would be a minimum if there's like like um Nick said if there's anything under a th000 um there should be a minimum of at least $10 but through your chair go ahead I'm sorry
just my my opinion is I think uh middle of the pack is where we want to be um so I'm comfortable with keeping things uh the way they are and I think the data that we've seen shows that we might be a little bit higher in some areas a little bit lower in some areas but overall
we're middle of the pack um amongst the area towns Mr chair good Mr yeah um I you know I'm more leaning towards just leaving them the way they are for the reasons that Denise mentioned also um considering what Mike said about about
the budget um you know every dollar counts um and the other concern I have is that this 14,000 let's say we just did the got rid of the base grate so that $ 14,000 $450 is money that the town would be
giving up and I'm not convinced that that money would be going to the homeowners to save them $4,450 because the contractor can still charge what he's going to charge for the job um and pocket that
$4,450 so to me what you're really doing is just taking money from the town and giving it to to the contractors um because I have I highly doubt that they're going to say if a roof cost $30,000 they're suddenly going to
charge [Music] $229,950 they're going to continue to charge $30,000 and then that's just increasing their profit margin so to me it's kind of a solution in search of a problem nobody's complaining about
this well we have one um person who has brought this to us and we appreciate that um but I haven't heard any residents complaining about it I don't think Mike has um so I would just just assume leave the fees as
is all right anyone else anyone in the audience um I think Lucas was first and then yeah Mr Kim I'd like to ask a questions yeah come on up all right so couple things in regards
to the building permit fees um I you know done extensive research on this Sharon is the only surrounding town in like 30 surrounding miles that has a base feed Norton is the Norton and Sharon are the only two towns that have a base fee so a lot of towns do go per
thousand $10 or $12 per thousand but they don't have the base fee so eliminating the base fee only makes sense I mean we just us and Sharon the only town that have the base Fe so couple other questions I got the
Mansfield um is $50 for roofing siding per um Windows eastn charges $75 Fox Pro charges $75 nor charges per thousand on small projects like Roofing siding
Windows um you know Mr I FR mentioned you know the permits you guys generated about $67,000 worth of roof permits and sociiety windows about 25% of those were permits that I pull in the last 2 years
so you know I'm aware of how much money the town's generating on those fees and I'd also like to mention that the state of Massachusetts you know the laws you know the building department is not supposed to profit the town is not supposed to profit off the fees the fees are supposed to cover the expenses for
the department and clearly the town is um profiting off the fees you know as you guys are speaking about it right now you made $67,000 off of roof anxiety and window permits um you know I've done probably 100 roofs in the last couple years in in
town and I've never seen the building inspector inpector I know that under comic he like to close them out but comik was also the ones that raise the permits raise the permit to begin with um you know I closed out I think nichel tell you I closed out almost 200 permits
in one shot which you know the building department had a stroke on but you know but you know we typically we don't even see the inspector on roofs and I talked to Nick about this and there really is no point in the build inspector coming out to see the roofs because there's nothing to look at so the fact that
you're generating thousands and thousands of dollars on roof fees doesn't make sense it only hurts the the homeowners CU they're they're paying more and as Mr Snider said I completely disagree with Mr SN on the fact that the contract is going to make more money so
I'm building the house right now in charad AV the permit fee for that build was $8,000 I'm building the same exact size house in Foxboro same exact dollar amount as the one in Norton that permit fee was
$1,500 so that's $65 almost $7,000 difference between Norton and Foxboro for the same exact home same size same bill same dollar amount we're paying almost $77,000 more to build that home not to mention the $4,000 we got charged by the water department and the house
was already tied in but that's a whole another animal um you know so you know I think that the board should consider you know if you're not going to consider matching our closest town Mansfield or east to all the fees I think you should at least consider the roofing siding and
windows fees to drop down to a a base speed and eliminate you know a flat rate you know and eliminate the base and I'd be happy to answer any questions CU I'm you know pretty knowledgeable and so so all right thank you app question
um and I think U Mr Kimble so I'm one of the people who was involved in the six years ago increasing these rates that way they are today um no different today than when been back then we did a comparison we forget all what other towns are doing thought it
was a logical way to approach it and there are costs of running into problem no matter how you look at it you don't look at the uh the expenses at least look at the cost of personnel that takes to run that department um no different than any
other fee that we charge if you think about it we have people come around time they use our restaurants they pay they pay a tax on that they come in and they do uh if you have to you have to have a put on or have to have something done on your
property it's a nice in it's not like we're all paying for it the person who's actually doing it as the one that has to pay for and I just had a move some stuff done in my house a few years ago and yeah I had to pay for it um anytime we talk about these we always
talk about compatible being compatible surrounding towns I don't particularly care anymore what other towns are doing I think we need to do what's best for us and in the climate we're in now financially just makes sense to not go
backwards uh I'd be more inclined to go the other way if if was possible sounds like we're in a pretty good location at number 11 I probably should leave it alone but just my own personal opinion but back then 6 years ago we did look at all this we did do we did the comparison
and we felt that we were pretty much in the right right Avenue right about where we should be thank you Mr C all right anyone else have anything to add oh she said got a question uh St uh Mr
chair the elimination of the base fee for to to bring in line with the rest of the surrounding communities you know with that being said the the amount per per thousand valuation seems to be the lowest of
everywhere around you know is there um inent mitigation if we if we were to you raise that amount which would be you know the only other Town that's 10 bucks is Middle you know the and I do agree with Mr Kimble as far as you know it's
not really it doesn't make a difference really but other towns do we got to worry about our town but you know to they keep it in line um you know with what's reasonable because I do believe and I do know when I used to do work
years ago for as a contractor for homeowners um the the residents uh the homeowner would write write the check directly to the town you know and so it depends on
the contractor but there they're definitely are contractors that do that they have the homeowner right the check for those fees and whatnot and they aren't backed into um the actual price for the job so I know there is that component to it uh but is that a
possible uh you know mitigation effort with you know if we eliminate That Base fee itself but bring up the uh price dollar amount per th000 valuation yeah personally I'm open to whatever my my initial thought when we first brought
this up over a year ago was you know we we should revamp this whole thing um and then we kind of whittel it down and and my last take on it was let's let's do these these four key areas here the windows roof and siding and doors um
bring them down lower the base fee um and see how that works out for the next year it's not going to impact the budget dramatically um I I don't think at all um but I'm you know I'm open to to Raising Me per thousand you know I think the closest
one right now is Titan and Middleboro Titan's nine middleb is 10 um Ado has no BC you know random has no Bas Fe um yeah it's only Norton and Sharon with the base fee yeah
so I mean you know I'd be open to to you know removing the vity and having it you know 11 per thousand or 12 per I that's again that's up to how you guys want to proceed I would say this is this isn't all the surrounding towns either
right handful got yeah we've been we've been given these a couple dozen times yeah no I know I know I'm just a sorry so my my thought on getting this on the agenda is to finally put it to bed you
know I hate things lingering and not being in done so either we do something or we don't you know to the board excuse me I just got one more thing I don't want to be out of line but I I got to correct youni what Mr Richard said was you were
you know the towns you you raise the raise the per thousand so right now we're at $12 per thousand on new construction editions um accessory garages is $10 per th000 that falls in line I think there's a couple towns like Alex said um that are $9 per th000 but
if you guys raise the per th000 and eliminate the $100 base fee that's even worse the situation than we're in now let say I do a $20,000 roof and you guys rais $2 per th000 on the base fee you just rais that $200 permit
that's $200 what what are you looking at luk different numbers so you're eliminating a base fee of $100 well I get what you're talking about but we have different numbers here we have the $10 and the $15 for commercial yeah I'm looking at residential so $10 oh $50
it's a $50 base fee so you eliminate say you lift eliminate the $50 Bas Fe but you make that $10 $12 so that's $2 per 000 so yeah what it's the math what's the math it's you know $30,000 roof you're going to spend more
money you know than just leaving it the way it is you know not a$ 20,000 you know it didn't matter you know $40 $50,000 job you know we do them all the time here in town you're going to actually spend more money so keep your base fee and leave the $10 per thousand if we're going to do that I mean
it's you know it's it doesn't make sense to eliminate the base Fey but then raise it for a th000 you know that makes no sense at at this point I mean eliminating the base fee seems like the only L moving forward eliminate the Bas feed but don't
increase the per thousand doesn't sense I'm I'm amenable to that because it still is in line we're at the bottom of the I mean towards the lower end of the you were saying 12 but I have 10 it is it's 10 but new construction is 12 but you know that's that's in line with you
know surrounding towns but like I said me the closest town man Fox bro these surrounding towns are you know are doing a flat rate fee for roof and again just to be clear this is just for residential and not commercial so only strictly residential but if you guys eliminate the base fee and then you increase the
per thousand you know yeah maybe on a $10,000 job it's a $30 difference you $50,000 job the how makes more money than just leaving it the way it is makes more sense all right thank you Mr chair
Mr senat yeah just I want to make comment further to what Mr Kimble said um the town's not making a profit off of this um I would suspect that it costs more money to have to hire someone pay
benefits um pay for gas and trucks equipment that would cost more than $ 67,5 so if we presume that we're not profiting off of this which I don't think we are um you know we're we're costing the town
$4,450 which is fine not but the the $67,000 is strictly for the roof siding and uh Windows roof siding doors uh for residential That's not including all the other permit fees and everything else like that and you know from from what Mr Ray said um you know none of these are
even inspected anyways so that's not really okay I mean I don't want yeah I don't want to get into a a back and forth of about you know we don't have numbers in front of us to look at so I'm making an assumption that we're not
profiting off of it if you don't mind sorry I don't your just you finish with thought yeah so [Music] um we can hear comments about that but my point being you know if we are deciding to
take $4,450 out of the budget just thinking back to previous budget discussions that we've had you know that that could be the difference between getting the library certified or you know whatever other small expenses
may seem small in the grand scheme of a large budget of our budget but those are still things that the town would like to fund um so you know I know it doesn't seem like a lot of money in the grand scheme but with the budget as tight as it is we've
we've had to make tough decisions around $10,000 or $15,000 so you know I guess what I'm saying is is that when budget time comes around and we're looking for $15,000 to fund something we might not have it I I
understand your point and I and I do agree with you to a point um you know but also we're going to have a special town meeting coming up and that's going to cost some money too so those are things that you know um that happen Mr R so lastly I just want to say that you
know the the state large it it does say pretty clearly that the towns are not supposed to profit off the permit fees the fees are supposed to be to cover the expenses of that department I think Norton brought in can confirm I think Norton brought in close to a million dollars um in permit fees and pretty
sure you know when I paying was di Fred and Kathy you know and some gas and trucks a million it's I'm sure the expense is on a million dollar in that the PO so since um you know since these fees have been risen you know risen The Last 5 Years and the town's taken in
significantly more fund um funds for these permits um so and you're not supposed to be profiting and to be honest with you this doesn't affect me and I've made that clear it doesn't affect the contracts it affects the homeowners it affects the 80-year-old lady on West Main Street that still owes
me money um you know her permit Fe was $700 inside her house and throw some windows in so you know it affects her it doesn't affect me it's doesn't affect contract and we're not going to profit off this Mr snip so you know I I my for me personally I would adjust my quotes
you know we're already in a a tough economy where we're we're grinding against other guys so a difference of $5 $600 makes a difference in getting a job announcer for me personally I would make the adjustments on my jobs thank you thanks Bri Car Oak Street um my question
is for the town manager I think a couple weeks ago or two meetings ago you mentioned that the special town meeting would have no additional cost to the town I was wondering if you could confirm that or alter uh there will be no cost to the town okay great and also I I don't
really believe that we would be making a profit off of anything personally based on what I've seen from literally any Town Meeting thank you okay anything else through through jack go ahead um
um um just as an alternative suggestion some of the towns in here had um no base fee but they had a minimum fee of $50 um so if you did the $10 per thousand and then at least had a minimum
of $50 it may recapture some of that loss that's a suggestion is that a motion no all right do we have a motion we don't have what one okay one so so essentially say
eliminate the BSB um that would be but instead put a minimum fee a of I was I was throwing another option in the pool but that wouldn't be my motion Mr chair Mr I'm sorry did
somebody um I'll go ahead and make a motion um uh to uh uh keep the current uh fee scheduled second okay motion a second all in favor I I
opposed okay so that means we have to change it apparently well I don't have to change it I know you don't so Mr chair no Mr rich I make a motion to be adjust the residential rate
schedule um to eliminate for the windows for the windows Roofing siding IND doors you'll eliminate the base fee but have a minimum fee of $50 okay is there a second second okay
all in favor I I opposed I extensions all right uh that passes do you get all that okay all right thank you all right and this is finally off of our agenda now so thank you all um next up we have the hero act
um I I don't think we're going to vote on this tonight because there's a few procedures that have to happen first before this passes but um I I wanted to make sure you guys got some information on this so I I had to put in the packet somebody brought it to my attention right before our last meeting
um and it increases the let's see it this bill allows municipalities to double the property tax exemptions with local options and ties to annual property tax abatement amount okay doesn't make sense to me
um it allows to double the property tax exemptions for uh certain veterans that qualify um I know Estelle was going to be here tonight to speak on it she knows a lot more more than I but she's not able to so I'm going to um we'll put
this on our next agenda um Mr chair um if it's something you're interested in I'll reach out um to the department heads the assessor uh Estelle and the town accountant to review uh what the
cost would be on the town um just off the top um quickly looking at it um Estelle and the assessor came up with a cost of of 150,000 to the town um and if this is something that you think um you're interested in it's something that
the board of assessors should bring forward so I'll let them know that um you're looking at this and have them analyze it and come come forward yeah I I'd like to know um how many because it's for qualified disabled veterans um
I believe and so I'd like to know how many are are are taking advantage of it and 150,000 price t on this seems quite High to me um it seems absurdly high so um yeah I'd like to have them come speak to
this Mr chair Mr Mar um yeah I'd really like to uh have for sure have the assessor Department take a look at this and uh see where where it falls as far as uh who it's going to affect um and how much it's going to
cost yeah and ideally I know we spoke um we can get it on the the special town meeting for May I believe so as long as there's still time for that um I'm I'm fine to postponing the next meeting all right um we have a long one
next um discussion or vote on special town meeting articles okay um so we have uh two articles that have been submitted and um one is article one is um Elm Street improvements Water and
Wastewater Engineering Services and construction and article two is a water tank Iration system um if I can I'll share my screen and uh just go over Elm Street I know we've
looked at it a number of times so I won't go over the entire uh project just to refresh let's go through it home so as you know uh the project is
400 4,800 linear feet of uh 8 in gravity soore that would run down uh Elm Street and militaris approximately 50 properties are along there and it would be one Municipal Wastewater Pump Station
and the potential site is up by um Library Park and uh 4,500 linear feet of water man improvements on Elm Street um so some of the considerations
obviously um it'd be uh one benefit of this project obviously would be an improvement to uh take down an unsafe building at 47 Elm Street and develop that property and it's a priority
economic Target area um existing infrastructure uh on that street right now uh limits any development at that site um we did receive 3.5 million in grant money as you know and uh if it'll
never be more cost effective to develop have that site cleaned up and developed whether it's this developer or another developer um unless so goes down that street that property is never getting touched um and the impacts to the local
residents obviously uh you have to look at um there'll be uh there's a public bid process and we'll go over later on what the bids came in at uh the 3.5 million that we received in grant money um and
residents um that tie into the store uh well they'll have a betterment as we've talked about previously and uh when they tie into the sore they'd have to hire a contractor to tie them in but there'd be no sore tie in fee so um you can see what the estimated
costs were and when the bids came in they came in at 5.63 million um with a 10% contingency and uh for and Public Safety uh needs it's estimated that it would be
7.54 million for the entire project that includes water and sore and so the request right now is uh 8 million and that would uh the betterment range would be um from 10 to a Max of 12,000 per uh
unit I know at one point you did ask about um if there was uh just a force main of 47 Elm Street um so we still would be digging up the entire Street to put the water M down
and um later on this would be a force main so it would just go to 47 Elm Street so anyone any of the properties along there would not be able to tie in sore if their septic systems failed um and the cost savings there mainly would
be to the developer because their betterment would be reduced um by [Music] that so just uh the preferred option obviously is the gravity
soar um so each property on Elm Street militaris um would be fronted by gravity sore um they're you know they if the people along the way are going to be selling the houses at any point it
obviously is a is a plus and um the cost they'll have to pay a betterment fee over 20 years or when they sell the property they would get paid off and right now the uh by law of the town is that there's a 7year requirement to tie
in um construction the entire length of the road is dug up for Gravity sore and water improvements the alternate the Force main only there'd be no gravity sore and no connections other than 47 Elm
Street um would would have no impact on property values uh later on people if their systems fail they'll have to pay to replace the septic system in the future and the entire length of the road is dug
up for a for Main and the water improvements so that old factory has been discussion for years about the condition of it the blight on the neighborhood and um neighbors down there have uh come to us they're very
organized at points looking for something to be done with that property so this is the benefit to the entire town um it enhanced property values expanded tax base by now developing that
property getting it back on the tax rows and um a relief from potentially expensive Title Five repairs and replacement later on for the people along the way not approving the project we result
in a loss of 3.5 million a mass Works Grant delay will in increase the short and long-term costs and uh it's unlikely we'll ever see the $3.5 million Grant again would be tough for us to get
another Mass Works Grant if we don't follow through on this questions anyone M uh the cost of the town and the two options if I remember correctly was
about 85 million for the full boat and 65 million for the force me is that correct um the cost of the project would be 8 and2 eight what do we say on the slide8 8 million um for the project to do the
whole thing and if it was just the force me it would be 6 million so the 6 million would be reduced by the 3 5 so about 2 and a half to the taxpayers and then we have the water main project that isn't
reduced um and uh the the betterment would only be on that one property and the betterment will be lower because the cost of the project would be lower and the developer is here if you want to something say
um so Mike has uh anything changed as far as uh negotiations with the developer or as far as helping with the betters we went ahead and we did um so far we've
submitted a draft of the OIP agreement and we uh put together a letter of commitment for the overall projects um again I think the last time I spoke to you I put us in the position of being a developer who is at the beginning stages
to some extent of the financing process um where you have to do all the permitting you have to go through this entire process um and you have to make sure that it's it's okay and approved by your financing source and so um the hurdle that we have is financing so we
can put everything together the tip was obviously designed um to meet the the needs of the town and our project to make it viable um so we are flexible with the Tiff um and that's important to understand because when you're talking
about uh commitments to take on more of the cost of the project uh it's math um you know the the larger Tiff we can receive um the more flexibility we will
have to be able to put funds into um the sewer project so if you wouldn't mind could you please explain the Tiff that you're talking about and just make sure that people understand that this does not affect any tax rate that the town
would have there no tax income being um alleviated there would be I'm sorry say that again so the tip that you're applying for is not a normal tip like we do with commercial properties it's very similar
but could you just explain how that's going to work and how that money is going to be spent uh so the money goes towards the project we Finance it from the front within the project at construction um so there is obviously
specific um taxes that any project is going to accumulate once the valuation is is re-evaluated so right now a piece of land like that with um contamination You could argue as a negative value because
because um the actual value of it would include the future cleanup and the future buildout of uh the sewer and so it's actually worth less than $0 um once we put the the um project together and we do the construction then
obviously there's a new valuation on the property because it's 150 unit development project and um at stabilization it even goes up more and of course those are dollars that would normally go um all go to the town so to
offset the costs of putting money into the the uh water and sewer we we receive a relief of some of those taxes throughout a 20e it's again we have to negotiate it so I think the town said 10 we said 20 years um So within that
period whatever we agree on um and is acceptable to both of us uh we're essentially recouping that Capital that we put out in the front through a reduction of taxes in the future why is that can I just explain
one really important reason why um they do this so the upsp is a very specific program and it's designed for these exact projects and the reason is because people get stuck and towns get stuck in a situation where it's a chicken or an egg the developer essentially comes to
the town and says I can't afford to do this project because I literally am putting more money into this project at the front than I will see over the next 20 years and so this is an ability to take advantage of that system and say okay well you know how much do you need
right now and let's offset that in the future thank you Mr chair so surviving so with that being said the chicken or the egg if you don't
get the financing projects then it's not feasible but it has to be approved at town meeting through this process for you to be able to even qualified to accept yes this just to put it in perspective by the time we're at the
financing level and doing the construction cost we will put in more I would assume more than half a million dollars so um we're not going to be looking to fail if there's a moment where it feels like we're going to fail we're going to come to you guys and say you know here's our problem spot and I
hate to say that we're in it together but we kind of are so the the surprises in the future that could jeopardize it um would be things that are Environ environmental all things that are there right now that aren't really caused by
us that we have to take on um but yes this is the only way to make this possible and there's nothing set in stone until that is once once that is secured correct Town me town meeting has to approve it for us for that the what a process town meeting has to approve it
for you to be able to even get that funding correct and that funding the dollar amount would be to mitigate the cost to the residents that would be directly affected on home sh yes and a lot of that has to do with our decision
as a as two parties to this because if you guys said you know what we don't want any costs to the residents then we would have to work that out and you guys would have to weigh what that looked like you know again I hate to say it but we're kind of all in on it together um
while you're going through that parallel we're going through our parallel right now the acti Consultants they are not cheap they are about seven in the state right now seven that can do this so if you can imagine being in that kind of niche
market and that's what I'm doing while you guys are doing this voting you yeah and I just wanted to um say that on that property um when the property does sell the base taxes owed
are $12,988 and interest and penalties are $233,900 th000 another point of note you the development do so when the developer
yeah you know Marco builds it it let's look forward fast forward it's built sustainable he holds it for the term that he has to for the tax benefits 10 years from now that that upd is still in play it's a 20 let's say it's a 20- year
upd is there a um is there a clause where that balance of the up top be pay brought back to you guys I doubt it I'm I'm going to be honest with you because we've already paid for the for our portion of it at the front right so we did it at construction so we're just
recouping during that period of time so when um when we're going to sell it they're going to be like hey this cost you a lot more our our cost in the overall project will be higher so when we go to sell it we're going to want to make sure that we're passing any benefit of that property to that new owner right
well I was looking at it from the eyes of the Town passing it to the town that's yeah oh I get I see you know and the residents on the street yeah you know that that you know as you know from you know from the Geto that was my main
concern to mitigate the direct effect to the resident on that SHP yeah you know this this you know there's two ways to look at it this project is forcing their hand to spend money you know in edent and whatnot so mitigating the edent that expense up front even though you know this is how you do infrastructure this
is how what the structure in all municipalities it's how it's done but how do we you know mitigate that effect to the residents that that are directly going to feel it you know immediately uh I think the if I could do it my way you
know and I was had a gabble and could just decide I would probably do uh the front as debt any any um any cost to the town as debt um cut a deal with us to service that debt until we paid it off
and then we paid off and uh we would receive um that repayment of that amount over the next 20 years but that's how I do it that's that's interesting that's a
very good angle on good day it's we're both going to do well if we do it right so it's it's unfortunately contracts and unfortunately we're in a position where there's a lot of timing timing I got I got until June I have I think I
mentioned this I have the middle of June you mention last yeah that's that's that's exactly yeah we have we're up against that with that mass work man as well so you know you know from you know how I see it is like you originally
stated it's the Chicken and the Egg we have to formally you know the town has to you know Vote for This approve of that town meeting and then and only then you're able to do that Finance component of it which you know it is what it is
you know so these details leading up to it they have to be done di in one um thing that I think is really important to understand is what we specialize in is taking projects that can't be done yet to the average developer so that's what we specialize in there's not many
people like us and when we do that we do things like write letters of support for specific grants which helps towns get that $3.5 million so if that goes away you're going to need to find somebody in the future who's willing to do that and
put that cost in and and it's really about reading through everything because it was if you looked at it from a developer there was no way any normal developer would have taken this on it took me a over at least over a year to get the project
read through and understood well enough and explained in a simple format for a group like uh kral to even look at it so in the future if you lose this you're going to need to find very unique person I'll give you my cliff notes and help in
any way I can but at the same time that's the reality we understand you've done this quite a while I mean this goes back to Paul's first term as planning director so yeah the first time yeah def right any questions um Mr chair um Mike how
much money has the town already spent on that property 500,000 so by the time we get to before we even put a shovel in the ground over there between the two of us we're probably going to have close to a million dollars
in in that property and that's just direct cost yeah right that's not lost taxes or anything Public Safety Public Safety all those things through your chair good from your perspective does it matter to
you what type if it's a forc if it's just a direct line or if there's sewage off of it to make a difference you I'm going to I would have to analyze that and come back to you with that okay anyone else board it was open up to
the come on have the hi Debbie Winston Elm Street I need a little clarification this went to town meeting last time and am I correct that it was
decided that it would not be forced upon all of Elm Street residents and that we had just decided if we went forward it would just be the 47 Elm Street I'll stop there that's that's not what happened
to um I don't think what everything was table that town meeting yeah this didn't come up in town meeting yeah it was it was tabled that we were trying to lower the betterment cost for I know that was my contention is as well as everybody else um to lower the vment cost as much as possible well here's my concern and
it's related to the planning board as well when they're trying to pick the MBTA overlay for those twave people it would force them also to go on sewer it is very disheartening and upsetting that
the town would expect a small percentage of the citizens to help Rectify such a huge issue so I beseech every one of you not
to put this burden on all of Elm Street residents and I ask the residents not to do it they wouldn't want to be forced to do it themselves so the twe residents people shouldn't be forced and neither
should Elm Street this is a horrific situation that the residents didn't cause where were our leaders monitoring the contamination and I can't remember exactly when we were having all these
meetings before Mo you might have to help me here that there was like aund maybe this is the tax that's owed on it I don't remember chairman steeve um was it $170,000 that would be given back to the
town so then the whole town would benefit from that rather than help the residents who are putting in the sewer do you understand if if you're referring to the the the pass through taxes I think it was about Mr unit said about 400,000 um but that's the taxes that
were on that property that have been unpaid because there was no owner no it was a 1.7 million de was coming back to the town that was going to be put onto the property of the people that buy it yes that it was the 1.7 not 170,000
sorry talking about the betterment cost if the project wasn't didn't go through if eure wasn't Al so it would have ended up being 1.7 million Le against the problem yep okay oh okay so can somebody and why would it go back to the
town and not to the residents who are helping to move this project forward do you want to explain yeah I'll try and explain so the betterment for the 47 El Street project is based on a
proposal for 150 units and the betterment um for that project was 1.5 1.75 1.75 so they would pay 1 .75 to this
project what we were saying was so that's how the betterments for the Neighbors were all reduced because 1.75 million of the entire project is going to 47 Elm Street and what we discussed before was well what happens if we
approve this we do the borrowing and then property doesn't get developed but we don't want to raise the betterments on Elm Street residence now so that would leave a $1.75
million hold the fill and because the loan's got to be paid off so that's when we talked about that the town would have to pay that note until someone finally buys the property and then we get the town residents would get the money
back and my last question is is there any building business in town that could contaminate land and who is watching that so that we don't repeat this
stupidity in the future um to help some clarification on the betterments right now it looks like you know 10 to 12,000 per unit for the the homeowners um but the project itself that 47 LM would pay 1.7 is that right so they're paying 1.7 in every unit
would paid 10 to 12 and again my contention from the beginning was to lower that that 10 to 12 down to as low as possible which is what we're working on with the Tiff if that makes sense you know personally I would like to see that site cleaned up I don't want to be forced to
do it I had another Point what was it um I don't remember all right thank you um and and if if folks recall I mean when when this was done I wasn't on the select board back then but um when it was in on West Main
Street that sewer development every single property got a betterment fee too and and it was quite a bit more 16,000 per unit 16,000 yeah um so that's that's where we're at now
and and my you know my vote at town meeting could be different than it is tonight depending on how much they can come up and say we're going to reduce these vents to you know however it is I don't think you have a number yet right so it's just
it's it's completely connected to the tip yeah so we have to negotiate that okay and how is this going to be done before town meeting question come on up I think you were
first um Str in six Miller Terrace the question that I have is the betterman fee is going in for Elm Street and Miller Terrace but when I resell my home when my septic tank fails or what have you I also then have to tell the
home buyer that my water has not been rectified because there's no water piping coming onto my street and I still only have 1 in piping coming into my street and brown Water that's requiring my filtering system to be Chang changed every 2 months unless you guys do a
project anywhere in town in which case then I have to fix it right away because then I have brown water so the betterment fee isn't helping with my resale at all due to the contamination of the water pipe that will not be fixed so can you guys change the wording on
the project so that it specifies that the houses on militaris are not benefiting from the water pipe thank you so yeah John you want to speak to that um and I can I feel your pain with the water
because my house still has it brown through my filter and everything so it just sucks for refal Pur let let John answer that so as far as the veterans themselves go the veterans are only for the sewer costs related to the project all water costs
from the project are being paid out of water receipts they're not being paid out of the sewer par portion mode so the betterment is deci is determined at the end of the project for what the grant does not cover as part of the sewer
portion of the project um I have brought up the possibility of a water man going down no Terrace it's something that could possibly be looked at it's not a very large road but cost probably have to
change probably be a chang all right thank you one here and then we have Mr Kimble next all right I remember my question and this fine gentleman can maybe answer
it the other egregious piece of this is once you do hook up with the sewer your water rates triple so my question is why do we have enough
funds because uh rates on the water are absorbing it compared to other towns why can't we use some of that fund to do what you want I understand we want to improve our infrastructure so that's what I mean when I say I would like to
see it done but done in a fiscally fair and reasonable manner so could he address or somebody address why can't we use some of the where is all that money going that the water rates I can answer
that and then I'll let John back me up if if I'm wrong um I believe a good portion is coming from the water sewer receipts um what was it do we have the total of it water M yeah that's right like how much was raised last year for
that well a lot of the water sewer receipts are being put to this project so there's 70% um 70% yeah so the the water sewer bills usually if you add sewer to a property your water bill usually doubles
CU you're paying your sewer you're paying your sewer bill based on your water usage so most it's usually about double the bill because you're paying for water and you're paying for sewer disposal um as far as why the whole
project is not being covered by sewer I mean Water and Sewer rates I guess it's a you know the view is you can do the project and just sewer at 47 Elm Street and the residents don't have to pay anything if you get sewer to the
house if you get sewer to the properties they have to pay for the sewer and it's an improvement of getting rid of the eyesore that's there now so it's that's where the betterment comes from as far as if you don't want sewer I
you know go vot against the article and you know that's doesn't cost anything to your property but if you do want sewer it's going to cost something to get and it's costing less than it did on West M Street so thank you John and we had Mr
Kim I think you had his hand up and if anybody else has any questions we're going to try to wrap this up I think the big picture is we have we have an issue we have Beyond storage we have an issue we have a building but the town spent half a million
dollars on of money that we could have used for something else to help subsidize the uh improvements on that property tore down half of it and the ep the EPA spent millions of dollars that we didn't have to spend just because we spent
$500,000 they picked up the rest of the tab if we don't do something we're going to end up with a building that's sitting there that is could be still contaminated we don't know that we don't know what's underneath it they can't
drill in the concrete that's there now because the building is so in such disrepair if they they don't dare to go in to even do any kind of exploration of what's going on in there I live on Pine Street a last s project down West Main
that uh Forest main goes right in front of my house I wanted to attach to it could for horse M if I want to attach to it I got to wait for the next project which is going to cost $2 million in today's numbers to get me back up to the
LG nor school so they can grab me Fe down the hill the problem is you got other homes on Elm Street that are failing youve got a multi-unit housing project there just beyond 47 on the left that has a failing
system that's been failing for ever and ever it's important to deal with that and it's important to deal with the property because we're going to end up paying for it one way or the other I do have one suggestion there are three pels involved I understand one has been sold
already to parking lot across the street has been sold 47 will be the next one the third one is the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about and I wouldn't at all expect a developer to even consider buying that property 3
and2 acres of contaminated soil that the no one is going to claim and no one's going to own so I would expect the board SEL board to immediately start reaching out to the
bankruptcy court to find out exactly what their intentions are because I'm concerned that 5 years from now when no one's testing it or 10 years from now we find contamination we're going to have another monster like we had years ago with the scra landfill we can't take the
property if you take it no's paying taxes if you take it for tax foreclosure you own it Town can't do that so I would encourage the select board to find out what the bankruptcy Court's intentions
are on that 3 and2 acres of land before they wipe their hands and walk away they're making money bankruptcy cour his money make some money at the very least they should be testing that 3 and half Aces to make sure it doesn't uh in the
future have any kind of examination we don't know what's going to happen when they turn down that old building things can move we don't know we don't know what's there so what happens if she doesn't follow
so if we don't follow through on taking down that building and working with the developers willing to take on the responsibility of doing that we are all going to pay for it and that's that's that's the bottom line we going to pay for it and we've already paid half a
million dollars and I know sometimes it's tough for people understand it I know when I was on the SW board for many years A lot of times I made decision based on what was best for the town I think you all you have done the same sometimes you got to do what's best for the town not best for what what's
important to you and I'm Tor about this but I also understand it's important to deal with two problems we have a problem with SSM industry the water is definitely definitely in bad shape as it
is in other areas of town the Enterprise money the Enterprise account money will be utilized to to make improvements on the water line which will benefit probably all of us in in the big in the big picture of it um militares I don't understand why that's not being done
this far of the project you're ripping it all up you might as well run a few hundred extra feet and make sure that happens and by the way militar is right there right next to our reaching field where our brand new building sitting over here is someday we may have to attach to so you know I I think it's
important to and I understand where the neighbors are coming from I I get it but I think it's important as a town we have to look at this and say what's best for us and how can we deal with and unfortunately we don't all have to agree with that but that's what happens regarding twe and this is entirely
different conversation I understand that but the problem with chle is is all under wedge it's a big problem over there we barely got water over there years ago putting in swer lines I don't see that ever happen it's never going to happen so uh
I would encourage you to work with this young way and try to get this project uh bwise in some manner because we can't afford to pay for any more in in the property and it's got to come down some before somebody gets killed or the thing burns down it burns down the
neighborhood with it or whatever it takes but it's got to get done and if we're on a time line it has to be done we need to we need to react to it but I would ask you to look at that 3 and a half acres all right thank you Mr Mr yeah on that property I just want to make it clear that that isn't just a
dump site that those are cap lagoons that were capped under D's guidelines and we did have D here this week on something else and uh I did mention to them about those and we'll find out what
we can on those and who modern is it just uh quickly speaking with our engineer I told you I mentioned the idea before of running water down Miller Terrace in the 8 million that's being asked to be appropriated we can fit that in there and we can add that to the
article it would just have to be a change order on the but it can be done within the budget I'm going to hold you to that could you do that would been the other option too cuz there's two options right there's one that is eight and one that's six it's not
it's not in we're not going to be on mil would aome appreciate that all right um any further questions from the board so maybe we need to through CH can I just say one thing uh John I don't
think we have to change the article because uh the article I'll read the article if you don't mind right uh to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate and or appropriate and or transfer from available funds and or borrow the amount of 8 million for the
purpose of constructing water mains water services soes so laterals pump stations Force Mains and related infrastructure land acquisition and for related legal administrative engineering and other pertinent expenses associated
with the construction of public SES and water mains required to serve public and private properties on Elm Street and militaris including without limitation all costs thereof and to authorize the select board to carry out the purpose of this vote that to meet this
appropriation the treasur with the approval of the select board is authorized to borrow up to $8 million and issue bonds or notes therefore in accordance with General L chapter 44 or any other enabling Authority that such boards or not shall be General Obligations of the town unless the
treasurer with the approval will select board mment that they should be issued as limited obligations and may be secured by local system revenues that the noron Water and Sewer Commission B and is authorized to acquire land and permanent temporary easements for the
foregoing purposes by purchase gift in our eminent domain and to apply for accept and expend any state and our federal grants and Loans or other public or private funds that may be available for the project that the water and seore
commission be authorized to utilize all funding sources such as bonds notes barrings and our retained earnings to cover all or portion of the water projects and the water and sore commission be authorized to assess sore betterments and privilege fees in
accordance with Mass General Law chapter 80 and 83 and town sord department rules and regulations by such methods as said commission deems appropriate to cover all or a portion of the sord project costs not reimbursed by the 3.5 million
executive office of Economic Development infrastructure Grant and other state federal grants that may be available or town of Norton property tax contributions with any such town of Norton tax contributions to be determined by the Norton select board in
collaboration with the Norton water and sore commission and to take any other action relative here to all that just to let you know militarist is including John okay so um I guess we'll see a vote on this this article
through you Steve sorry good just to clarify Mike the way this article is written is it is only for the option with Italians right for the whole the whole project yeah I mean my personal preference is I think that the direct
line um is better for the taxpayers for a number of reasons that the folks aren't forced to tie in if a million possible external factors play in and this doesn't become a viable project it's less burden for us to have to pick up if
developer decides that it's not viable right um and although I see the utility in sewer lines for me the utility is more about the main roads to get businesses that need to have sewer than
it is for the more more important for them than it is for the individual homeowners I know we had one homeowner that spoke up and said they wanted the sewer line tie in um but it's just it's a lot of money to have to expend up front and
ongoing um into the future to expect those taxpayers to have to pay that burden thank you anyone else okay do we have a motion on this article oh oh you're going to make me do
this that's why I'm looking at you um I suppose before I make a motion I would just um I would just like to Echo a lot of what um Mr Kimble said with regards to this with regards specific to the Elm Street project I couldn't agree more with what you said so we'll leave it at that for now I know may I made a comment at the last select board meeting
regarding it so um so that said I will make a motion um to um approve article U uh sorry I'll make a motion to recommend amend article one um for the
Elm Street improvements for water and wastewater Engineering Services and construction second okay all in favor I opposed no and just to be clear and I want this project to move forward I want Elm Street to be developed I just don't
think this is the right path okay and the next article is article two and John can come up and talk about this it's it's looking for $100,000 for engineering planning design perime into our construction to of a
ination system in the water tower yes so um our C tree ground storage tank um Services a large majority of the system especially on the west end of town um the addition of this Air Raider mixer
will um the the purpose is not only water turnover but to uh alleviate the amount of tthms that are in the water and we all postcards quarterly of tthms down on RAV it's a high water age area um tthms
are formed when um uh carbon total organic carbon mixes with chlorine for a significant amount of time um so this air this air Rader mixer will greatly reduce the amount
because of the type of THM we have um we originally asked for $375,000 for this um we only had one bidder for the project DN tanks um the gist I kind of get is it's kind
of I'll just say I I I was surprised we didn't have more than one bit um and uh so the C I actually have have break down right here bear with me
um so the total cost of the uh project an alternate a which is to add a air Rader along with a mixer mixer is the main part Aira there's a small addition to that um total cost is uh
463,000 um based on uh any change orders engineering contingencies we were going to request an additional 250,000 um however uh going through articles coming through our records we
had actually found that in uh May of 2019 town meeting article 10 150,000 was appropriated for The Cottage Street tank for for Eng engineering purposes so that uh can be used for this project um so
we're actually lowered our request to $100,000 for this article um we're in negotiations with d right now that uh they really want to see this project move forward um and we're going to eventually come to a sign agreement that
we have to rectify the tthms on that end of town and this is by far the best way to do that at least as a not a I don't know say a short-term solution it's a long-term solution but um it's it's treating a major issue we have you know
we'll continue to work towards getting rid of the root cause of it but the root cause of it on its own isn't a problem it's the formation of dthm is just the problem so um as I mean as far as I'm concerned I I I need this article to pass more than I needed the first
article F by a wi Mar um so that's what we're asking for um you know I it's kind of unfortunate that we only had one bid but it it is really this so and the uh the uh DN tanks had
extended their bit to the end of March so once you know Ward willing we get the approval and can get the vote at town meeting we can move on this right away get the wheels moving and uh hopefully start the project in probably fall of 25
uh you know it's kind of hard to take a large storage tank off and high water demand Dro um but So the plan is to start this in early fall 25 if we can get this approved okay thank you John you answered my question so um anyone
else I just wanted to say we did we did have a conference uh with d this week and they do want this sooner than later yeah okay Mr chair I'd like to make a M
to recommend article two for the special town meeting second second all in favor I I I I opposed extensions all right excellent all right next up we have the discussion on the search committee for the town manager position as everyone
knows we talked about last meeting uh Mr un is retiring um so the search committee according to our bylaw section 4 point 4-2 um search committee consists of nine people chosen as follows a member of the
select board member of the school committee member of the board of assessors a member of the planning board and of the finance committee um each will designate one person uh four will be chosen by the moderator three of those people appointed by the moderator must not hold any other appointed or
elected Town position so we are hoping to get this moving as quickly as possible because um it's my understanding it's going to take quite a bit of time to find anybody remotely as capable as Mr units here so
um it's our request I guess you can stop me if I'm wrong but I think we're requesting all these boards to make these appointments as soon as possible and um we can make one tonight for us do we um sorry Mr chair y Mr I would suggest we give the other boards a
deadline okay um that way we can make sure it's moving okay so I would say prior to our next meeting the what's it 13th 13th yeah yeah fair enough okay so
um um well I will um well Mr chair sorry um as you guys know I'm not running for reelection so I would take myself out of the search committee because I'm not going to be here after April whatever it is and I'm running for re-election and I fully expect to be back here but just in
case I'll take myself up to so that leasts a three of you was it going to be happy to do it I don't mind I'll do it problem nomination Mr chair Mr meron I uh would
like to nominate uh Mr Rich to serve on that committee for the uh search committee for the new town manager second second all right all in favor I iOS all right congrats luck good luck
with that all right oh and then should we should we uh memorialize our recommendation for the for the other boards to give us something for 2 weeks like should we vote on let's make it very persuasive and vote on that yes I think that's a
good idea I'm going to make a motion to um uh for I suppose the town manager to notify the other boards um so I'll make a motion to uh to ask the town manager to uh notify the other boards um who will make up this committee uh to uh um
provide us with a um uh represent a representative thank you um before March 13th 2025 um if they don't have any meetings between now and then where they can vote on it um they should probably hold a
special meeting I would think yeah that does your motion include the um uh the town moderator yes okay and it's four appointments M okay yeah second we all that all right uh all in favor I I
opposed all right Jack's going to be thrilled about that one it's quite a deine you should see in yeah okay um okay next step is to discuss indor vote on a memorandum of
understanding between Town departments regarding the use of facilities um this came up because the the last time we used the school for um a meeting or a town meeting we were build like $800 or something for oh it was veterany too
veterancy per was was built for for that um so time election yeah so all those times um the town's being built for use of those um the school property and you know we have them in here using this meeting
room all the time we're not building them so I think it should be a memorandum of understanding uh in my mind between all departments that there should be free usage of the buildings I don't think there we should be billing each other for that but someone else to speak to it I just think that you know
the reciprocity you know we all all these proper are own M the tax is uh it doesn't matter what what department fits on there so you know I think the people that organize some of these events and meetings and things of that nature may
want to rethink some of the triggers that um cause some cost like some of the you know janitors that have to come in open up the building and close it up you know things things of that nature um you know moving forward just to uh mitigate
the possibility of incurring in expense some of it they're not going to be able to get around but some of it uh should be more uh Common Sense type stuff instead of sending bills back and forth it only costs the taxpayers more money
and it just it doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever okay so you know my thoughts on this would be um have the town manager draft something up for us to review and and approve the point in the future I'll have my paralal DOTA
[Music] okay okay all right all right next up we have discussion oh no no discussion and vote to award the DPW service contract for 5125 to 2026 so in front of you you have uh the
bids that came in and the awards uh excuse me the awards from Southeastern Regional Services Group this is for um permanent trench patch super pave hot mix crack
sailing um installation of God rails snow shoveling on flat roofs tub grinding lone compost and gravel screening medium class excavator Services CAT Excavator with foreman and
crew and uh sidewalk construction and the board um has any questions I i' ask that you authorize me to uh sign the DBW Services awards for May 1st 2025 through February 28th
[Music] 2026 any questions Mr chair um Mike these are all um quotes jar uh the these yeah these are he gives
his quantities and the bids are all done by the soue regional Services Group all standard names that I see so yeah keeping uh on their uh pricing um on what they're doing the super hot mix
exact same as last year changing price Mr chair that's what I was going to ask have many of these gone up or they have um you know I'm surprised that that one that stayed the same um let me
try and find some others here um so the crack sailing uh was $11.83 per gallon last year and it's now $130 per gallon this year U so some went
up some went down [Applause] s shoveling um I think that stayed the same let me check well it went up $5 TP grinding went down from 493 to
487 see touch upon some of this in my world is you know Stu that I sidewalk constructions the exact same no change Jared V yes he's he's part of the uh High
group that means I'm okay with it but his stand okay well Mr chair Mr sen like to make a motion to uh uh authorize the town manager to award the DPW service
contract uh for May 1st 2025 to February 28 2026 got second okay motion a second all in favor I I opposed all right I don't believe we have any other business not
reasonably anticipated tonight so we'll get on to the town manager's report um just I wanted to let you know that uh we did receive a 54,2 $40 Grant from the community planning grant program and uh so that'll
be good uh for the planning board and all BEP you to work with um might just clarify that's contingent Upon Us passing MBTA o yeah thank you Mr chair just through
through you um mik just so everybody knows the mass Works Grant is not contingent upon the NBTA over is it um right now I don't think so it's not one we have okay all right want head off question that might be coming
yeah those what your okay um just um wanted to get back to you on the uh is everyone in agreement uh to meet on April 1st at 715 a joint meeting with the finance
committee and planning board first is it Tuesday right I personally would be better on a Thursday but if if everybody's already accepted that M be difficult the other two boards already set that dat um I don't
[Music] know yeah I'm good i' prefer the third but it's already said I mean I'm okay with the first either either but problem I'm not
going to shift everybody just for do that to you you know that fool St right MH so we'll show up definitely why Kevin there to make a motion if it needs to be made I'll be there I'll be there for motion making you know it I'll be question how about
that how about this um what time of that 7:15 7:15 can we change that time we had earlier um let me check oh all say yeah I
mean you came back yeah I I if if I'm going to be stuck to your date people I think we should do sooner um maybe 6:00 a.m. or 600 p.m. 600 a.m. yeah I'd be ready for that I'm good with whatever I can make it anytime
so just that one can tend to go long and and um yeah I like being married so without having the rest of the boards here my guess is they chose 7:15 for reason a little bit of that's what planning board normally that's their normal meeting time it
is can you weigh in on that can you make an executive decision Paul seriously 7:15 come on been trying to tell them move it back the latest board out there seriously um that's crazy I we have a
m we can check what I'll do is I'll I'll coordinate with Mike and see if we can move that back 7:15 is their normal time but I think because this is a joint meeting we'll we'll try to move it back these are not normal circumstances so right these are not normal circum
so we'll we'll see we'll start with 6:00 and see where we can go from that from there thanks Pa thank you and we'll check with make a motion let's
just don't overdo it with the motion yeah okay go ahead make all right just wanted to um as we move along as we find out something with the budget um just to keep you
informed um so since we last met um we did get our numbers from Bristol ay and uh southeastern regional um they've both gone down those are the numbers uh for
next year um we haven't put it in here yet because we just got it today on the fixed and shared the largest expense on the fixed and shared obviously is um health insurance and we had put in there a 9% um increase for the health
insurance and it did come in at 8.2 so slight slightly less so there'll be some more money uh there when we reduce that um right now we're using um I'm proposing to use 1,500,000 of the free
cash we currently have a balance in free cash of 2,171 $281 um and so some of the variables that we have going forward um we're waiting to see on the snow and ice to see if there's any possibility using
more free cash uh right now uh the snow and ice has gone 990,000 over mostly due to all the little pesty salt we had to keep salting so when we get a final number on that we'll know more of that on that and also
our local receipts waiting to see um how the excise comes in this is the month when most of the excise taxes are paid so we'll get a good reading on that so we'll then look at our local receipts again and uh see if we can up the local
receipts so with that um right now um they'd be a deficit of 691 th000 on a budget for 3% but as I said the numbers are still moving around we're looking at those local receipts if we can get more money there and we'll be reducing that
fixed and shared [Music] number thank you m I just wanted to thank uh blue stone Bank um they contributed to the Norton energy fund and they were they were
asked um for a contribution of 10,000 and they they gave $122,000 they said because uh energy bills are so high right now they wanted to do whatever they could to help out people that needed it and they donated
$112,000 to the non energy fund that was great that's great all right uh select cours report in mail does anyone have anything so I approve the Lawrence rck Mr chair Mr SN like to make a motion to
adjourn second all in favor I iOS all right thank you all