##VIDEO ID:Gt-cHUW_55c## all right everybody Welcome to the select board meeting of Thursday December 12th 2024 um we're going to do a roll call first we have Kevin Roger Alec and myself uh Denise could not make it tonight and as always we're going to start with the pled Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the repic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all so we're going switch a few items up here and begin with um something that I've been kind of looking forward to here is recognizing um representative J barrows um he has served as our state rep for the past 18 years from what I understand and what I know he's always been extremely responsive to the town of nordon uh extremely helpful um and I did find out that his first election he only won by what a percent or something like that wasn't even 1% too it was too close so you know we're very we were very lucky to have had you and um very much appreciative and um I personally I knew you before I even got into town politics through Insurance yeah um through my business and so I I have nothing but praise for you and and and uh thanks for everything you've done for the town of Norton so if if anybody would else would like to say something else I welcome that so um I would just like to say that U I've known Jay for a a long time probably 35 years from uh when we were uh businesses across the street from each other I knew his mom well when she was running the business he was next door to a Fen Pharmacy instead of right um and he has been involved in um local issues for longer than he's been a state and he's helped everybody that's come in contact with him and asked him for something he's always been receptive and um we couldn't have been uh luckier to have somebody like Jay representing Us in the at the state house so Jay thank you very much for all your years of service I really appreciate it yes thank you very much Mr baros uh everything that you've done for the town and surrounding communities has been unbelievable when I first met you I was a watur commissioner and you were putting together um or working on the formation of the regional mfn uh Sewer District from Mansfield Foxboro and nor I couldn't believe um you know I was young at that point and I learned a lot still I learned a lot watching and listening to you and um it was pretty impressive because you carried a lot of weight back then with um and showed everybody how to get stuff done which now it's as successful as it gets as as a regional plan so thank you congratulations thank you and we do have sorry sorry Kev um well I I haven't known Jay very long but seems like a good guy um and um but um uh I uh I do want to thank you for for all of your help and all of your um support of the town of Norton and um uh I'm kind of disappointed that you're uh that you're uh moving on because um I have this really great picture of you at Al Al nyum um in the clean suit um so I was planning on using that against J something but uh but no thank you very much um and uh we we very much appreciate everything you've done for us thank you appreciate it okay so a couple things we want to to give to you tonight oh um before you do that yeah give me one give me one second um we're going to do a certificate of appreciation I'm going to have the clerk read that but if anybody in the audience would like to come up and say something about Mr Barrow they're welcome to do use the microphone absolutely actually this is a tag team and you really Steve Howard get wait a minute Steve Howard gets the accolades also because when we needed something here in Norton or for whatever the TR town was he took that wording of TR town and made it into a grand money-making machine like our sewage like our housing and I just want to thank him because he always answers the phone or 10 seconds later he's back to you going to miss you and as we reach out in our Housing Authority where do you think we turned right to him because he knew the doors that needed knocking on we're going to miss you but you know what you picked a good somebody to Mentor Michael Michael representative P what can we say about Jay well one thing it's hard to believe that I'm six months younger than Jay his white hair although I I tend to look quite a bit younger than Jay but uh uh it's it's been a pleasure I've been been your representative for 14 years which is really hard to believe and when I came in Jay was there for me to Mentor me as I hope to do with Michael Chason who's your incoming State Rep uh it many things have changed we've gone through different Governors but the one constant is that our communities that we represent while we may not live here physically we are part of the community and we take everything that comes to us from the citizens of Norton and in my case I have secon Kobi and Swansea we it's very important that we respond as quickly whether it be a constituent or someone from the government and Jay has set the bar for that and uh I I truly appreciate it I was disappointed when he said that he was retiring because as uh as it's been said we've been a good tag team and uh by the way uh Senator feny senses regrets he had another appointment tonight ha but uh no we have we have a very good uh bipartisan representation for uh the town of Norton and uh Jay uh you know I just wish you the best in your retirement a long time that hopefully you have another 16 years to enjoy your retirement or better so uh all I can say is thank you for uh what you've done for me and uh you're going to be missed in the legislature as well thank thank you um y go I had an opportunity to uh meet representative barrows in 2016 uh he actually mocked the floor with me when I ran against him as as an opponent but uh that's when our relationship began and it's been a it's been a true friendship and as a former select board member Jay was very helpful on understanding and helping the kind of explain how advocacy for the town at the state level and he's been a true Ally but he really is where he shines is he defines constituent services that is where he def you know you call Jay he will help you and guide you for any problem and for that the residents really you know and representative how you are just as good so I don't want to take e miss you any love but Chay you've been great and on behalf of the residents you know obviously this through the select board obviously thank you very much for your service really it will be and I know Michael chasa will do a great job good thanks all right Mr K a roast hold on you have the right people up here for that if you'd like J and Steve I mean you guys have been great obviously we served together from 2006 on so you know seems like yesterday it doesn't but um always knew I could rely on both of you to get anything done in town and and make that phone call and make it happen so I'm glad to see you retiring and have some good time with yourself and your family you know we make sure that all happens the regionalization was probably one of the biggest hatch we probably would carry forward you know getting us involved in the TR toown with the seage and in addition to that now the new Regional um communications center which is uh something that's very uh very important to us in it's actually Sav the town a lot of money hopefully we'll continue to look at other regionalization processes along the way because it seems to be the way to go you know whether it be electricity or cable TV or you know whatever else possibly we can we can look into we might uh hopefully carry that ball forward and make that happen but congratulations in retirement and um why you uh you uh great you I'm glad you're retiring young enough to appreciate it but thank you for your service thanks all right anyone else okay so yep okay so we're we're going to we're going to read the St appreciation and then we have something else to give to you and again I just want to note how how how important this is um I only put a tie on for the very most important as anyone who here who knows me I do not do that and um go ahead Roger thank you so J this is a certificate of appreciation may it be known that this certificate is hereby presented to Jay baros in recognition of his 18 years of dedicated service to the people of Norton as state representative of the first Bristol District we wish you all the best in your future endeavors and hereby extend our deepest gratitude to you for your friendship and your contributions to our community thank you thank you [Applause] so we have we have one more item for you um and I'm going to come up and help hand this to you but um I think it's the first in the town of Norton we're going to give you the key to the town oh wow that is cool beautiful that is fantastic it's for the old it's for the Old Town Hall that is wonderful never seen thank you so much I appreciate thank you good man than good to see you thank you you we just make a couple of words real quick yeah jumping really good with this that is awesome that is cool one piece and I just m wow that is great oh thank you well that is really special and thank you everybody for the kind words and um the memories but it's we've come so far it's like amazing to be standing here today in this beautiful Town Hall that was a dream many many years ago and all of you and those that came before you pulled it off and I have to thank um Town manery units for his leadership um envision and passion and it's important to have a good leader got a great police chief great fire chief assistant fire chief we got a great town it's really it's been awesome and um I always kind of relied on Norton helping me get elected um and it meant a lot we knocked on thousands of doors um way back in 2006 when I was young like you Al um but the people here have a great passion and a great passion in history and um community and it's truly been an honor to represent this town and it and it was funny we started with a sewer thing and Alex you can attest and Bob when we all sat down with the three towns I thought it was the Hatfields and McCoy and another McCoy um it was really interesting and it was it was entertaining too because the the three communities had that's all they did was Sue each other like can we just stop with that nonsense and let's work together and and we did and we had a lot of different dance Partners along the way um Town managers couple changes in in both the community all three communities um changing leadership on Boards of Select you know select boards I think we call it selectman back then um but it was always kind of a change and it took 10 years to to pull it off and one of the things that I thought was important that Norton's hosting of that facility I mean I can't imagine what it was like in the 80s when you know Five Guys from Mansfield smoking cigars drove to an Ord said let's put the sewer treatment plant right here and it would be ours like it just that never made any sense but they did it uh and so some of those years of angst we were able to unwind and and now the town is is compensated for hosting that and hopefully it feels very fair uh how we did it and how we structured that whole deal but it was a it was a great um a great thing to start and then to see with the 911 the work that um Chief Clark did with that and Fire Chiefs to make that happen again regionally unheard of I mean in the state of Massachusetts in the land of parochialism it just doesn't happen so to pull that off it really made a huge difference but uh people have been uh fantastic you folks have been very welcoming as have all the other boards through the years and we appreciate the partnership that we had and I will always have a fun place in my heart for Norton so thank [Applause] you all right thank you very much Jay thank you can't can't say it enough all right now I'm going to take my tie off and we're going to get going here so next up we have the public hearing to determine whether the live entertainment come and vict license uh issued to New England rodo LLC should be modified rescinded or non-renewed um so I'm going to open up the hearing and before you do that we can do that first so I'm not going to open that public hearing just yet um sorry where are we okay uh we have appointment of Jill mudley to the part-time accounting clerk position in the town accountant's office um so Jill is here tonight Jill is a resident of Norton and she's going to fill a long vacant uh part-time position in the town accountant office so it'll be 18 hours per week and chill has a background in bookkeeping and is also currently working as a substitute teacher in Norton and we look forward to uh have Jill help us out in processing bills and other functions around the town account office okay excellent any questions uh from the board if not I'll I'll take a motion Mr chair Mr Maron I make a motion that we appoint Jill and godly as a parttime county clerk second okay all in favor I opposed no all right excellent thank you very much congratulations thank you Joe conrat okay so now I will open the public hearing UMO LLC Mr uh go ah Mr do we need a motion to open or I don't think we need a motion to open okay um yeah do we yeah we take a motion to open okay I I'll take one how would I'll do it then um make make a motion to uh open the public hearing to determine whether the live entertainment and common big licenses issued to New England Rodeo should be modified that are not rened second all in favor I I okay all right excellent so we're going to have um um attorney cor go through this great thank you through you Mr chair good evening my name is Greg corbo Town Council for the town of Norton and we're here this evening for a public hearing for the board to determine whether the entertainment and common vist licenses for New England Rodeo should be renewed for um calendar year 2025 um although these licenses are typically um renew as a matter of course um as members of the board may be aware um Town officials have had numerous issues with the rodeo during calendar year 2024 um concerning health and safety issues traffic um and things of that nature um so the it was recommended that the board before renewing the license conduct a public hearing to determine a whether or not the licenses should be renewed um and and if the answer to that question is yes what if any conditions should be imposed on the licenses going forward um so um through you Mr chair uh what I would suggest is that you first hear from um health building and um police and fire officials as to their experiences with the rodeo over the past year U then you give um anyone who is here on behalf of the rodeo to respond um and then I can um talk to you further about what your options are for um taking a vote tonight okay sounds good to me um so anyone from the who would like to start Nick good evening um so like attorney Kobo said as many of you know um there were a couple hiccups over the course of the past season um at the rodeo with um overpopulated events parking on the streets and public safety concerns that we had um as Town officials um um and I think at some point in the in August late August there was a letter um from my department with some other department heads um again through the discuss of attorney corbo with some correction orders we had asked for um to get completed prior to the end of their season um so basically what we're looking for and I I think we all gave provided some letters with hopefully some suggestions um that you can take into consideration um as part of this application from the rodeo um but there's some stuff that we'd like to see happen uh from my standpoint um the bleachers the grand stands um which we've talked over the course of the last couple months um you know some register design professional reviews on a a valid occupancy load um a proper site plan showing adequate parking um on the site for the events um and so over with through my in my letter um from my standpoint that's I would hope to have happen prior to them um having their first event of the season if you choose to um renew their licenses um I'll let the Board of Health agent the deputy Fire Chief and chief Clark speak to their specifics but um for my end there there's a a list in my letter that I would hope to have done before um and I would like to be able to issue a valid occupancy permit because I don't believe we ever issue going through the town since they started um so there is some stuff I'd like to validate and and more legitimize than we have in the past and kind of get up to speed with everything so that's R in and then these guys can kind of follow up on their own if you have any questions for me I'd be happy to answer good so they don't have a valid occupancy uh no we do not have an occupancy permit or occupant load for that event okay thank you anyone else okay thank thank you name Chris honor Board of Health agent um so over the years um what what we found with the event and it's a good event I don't want anybody to think that we don't like the RO the rodeo it's not the case here um it's just that over the years years it's gotten bigger and bigger and bigger um and concerns have gotten greater and greater and greater um so uh some of the things that we're looking through looking for rather on the on the health department side um the wellwater testing um needs to happen on an annual basis uh and the flushing of the water system that they use for the cooking area um the kitchen area that they have there always needs to be properly made maintain just like any other kitchen these are all just uh on my end of things these are um commonly known things and they they've actually been very good about a lot of them um the one big issue that I have when it comes to the larger events is well number one we're never notified we haven't ever been really notified that they're going to be as big as they are so we would like to have some heads up on that that would be great but um you know some of the things that can really be an issue when you start to bring in more and more people is things like portable toilets and the amount of them amount of toilets you have on site if you have you know half a dozen there for your typical Friday night or Saturday night event um and then you have a special event on a Sunday and there's still only the typical six of them that's not enough um you know just to give you an idea on portable toilets not that it's a fun topic to talk about but uh you know when you start to get a crowd of upwards of 2,000 people you need 19 portable toilets to handle that um that way you don't have people urinating in in the woods and uh in people's backyards are on the bike PA bike path while they're parking their cars um so um the other thing I would like to see which I never have gotten from them and I would like to see it in the future is just a copy of their dumpster contract for the proper disposal is solid waste but I can talk to them about that I I feel confident that they'll come through so but these are just some of my concerns thank you all right thank you Chris gentlemen thank you Chief uh good evening I think as it was stated before there's been a couple hiccups this year um in particular about the number of cars that are parked on the street on North Washington Street all the way from cross street down the goodwi drive as along with PE people parked in the new bike path um and uh similar to what we've had in the past with xinity there's been some public Ur urination concerned private Vehicles going to the uh to the event that are parked on private property people's own property so it is uh you know it has been a little concerning um the music being loud is is probably one more thing um you know from from my perspective it's no different I think we've had some discussions about a couple things we'd like to see there has to be something about an appropriate number of ticket sales it can't just be open-ended that people can come and and let them in because it's it's it's definitely an issue I've had offices that have gone there on their own time and then come back to me and said this is this is serious it's a public safety issue so um certainly a parking plan um on what they're going to do uh I think as the the Board of Health director mentioned we don't always get notified of the events I'd like to see at least um proper notification and details required police details required as necessary and then uh I don't think there's a safety plan on what they're going to do if there's civil unrest if there's weather or anything like that um I think everybody's probably seen some photos that we've we've had taken so with those but from the police thank you Chief thank you all um these guys have touched on a lot of it we've had um we've had some meetings with with the rodeo over the past we had these two major events um Memorial Day weekend and Columbus Day weekend where we put uh the residents in public safety at dire risk um we spoke to them after the first one Memorial Day they promised us some changes those changes never took place um you know we've we've spoken with them we've had a good relationship we want to see them continue but certainly as the chief and these guys have said things have to change we can't keep going the way we're going um again as they talked about some hiring some details um a comprehensive safety plan access roads for us extra lighting um in eous passageway a second one should there be whether it be civil unrest or or car fire or something like that right now the way we have it set up is that if if all the traffic is going in that's great but you can't you can't go the opposite way whether it's going in or out so it's certainly putting uh the patrons and Public Safety at risk with that um again the certified parking plan that that Nick touched on and stuff like that I know they're working through some of that um and the amount of parking the ticket sales again is is um you know we we kind of get we kind of get some soft answers as to why what's happened and and the amount of people that show up and that they can't control it and I think they can and they can do better that's that's well I get there all right any questions for deputy chief no right thank you very much okay so now we can um we can hear from anybody from from the radio if you would like to come up good evening my name is Ed Pina I help out at the rodeo um we definitely want to continue to work here in um we are trying to proceed with some of the suggestions um we did get a parking um done by an engineer it was turned in um it was never approved yet because I think they want a couple more things on our end but we did submit that to the town with the engineer then we had the engineer come in to do our eval on all our equipment um the engineer said we could use our trailers we were suggested not to use the trailer so we did close them off at the end of the year and did not continue using them one of them we actually ripped out and completely got rid of um we're always going to grow we're always going to try to do better um we're hoping to continue to do better as we go through the the season we're not new anymore and I understand that guys and we one of our our talks of is maybe hiring um two detail cops or one detail cop to be on with a cruiser up on the street and if anyone is parked on the street tow them I mean maybe we should have some temporary no parking signs or something put up along the street um I don't know if that would come from us or from the town because it's going to be approved by you guys I believe and the chief um that's something we could also do um we're always looking for suggestions to make make ourselves better um open air nobody can seem to give us any type of formula from the engineers to the town about open air occupany permits there is no I don't know if there is or isn't one but I don't believe Massachusetts has an occupancy permit for open air um we're not asking for a million people um if if there is please you know if there is an occupancy permit or a way of figuring that out um our engineer did try to call and talk to about that I didn't get much of a response from the engineer I don't know if they ever got back to you Nick I can only go so far our we did hire a contractor to try to do all the um engineering thing our biggest thing is we couldn't rip anything like can't pull everything apart with two weeks left of our rodeo we're hoping this year before we open we can get it all said and done and up to Cod to where they're happy and we're happy you know the tough part for us is we're not trying but we're trying to charge as little as possible and there's many of families that come from Norton and surrounding towns that come in and they can't even afford to come in and we're just like here just come in enjoy we we give free tickets out on a regular basis to to people in the community that can't afford it we don't charge for children cuz parents don't have the money to pay for everything this day and age with inflation and everything so we're trying to do what we can do and what we can afford to do um they did make mention about PTO John anytime that we've ever done a big event we bring in a ton of pons I just wanted to let you know nobody's come down I didn't know they wanted to be you know when you get the the permit to say you can run it for the year you usually don't have to tell anybody hey we're going to have 500 people hey we're going to have 1,000 if it's something that the town would like we'd gladly you know we'll try to work with you um our last Rodeo it was it started getting out of hand cuz North Ado tried to have a rodeo in their town and then the the cow the Bulls got loose us as a as a rodeo Community from Norton actually went up there in assist with policeing fire to capture those those bulls that were running loose for two days um so everybody showed up you know so we did call in for an emergency detail to try to help out with that um in hindsight we probably should have saw that all that news come out but I'm just a dumb farm boy that works in the sewer department of adoro I'm not a lawyer I'm not you know I'm not a doctor that does paperwork for I'm just a guy that enjoys announcing at a rodeo and I work for the town of adoro hindsight says we should have done we probably should have had two officers up there with Cruisers so when we closed our gates it was sold out just like any other event they close their Gates they you can't let anyone in if a nightclub comes to capacity and there's a line outside they just tell them go home we we're full you know you can't we can't pre-sale tickets all the time to get into pre-sale tickets it would cost more than we can afford to to get into um with that being said we can we can attempt to do something for our first and our last Rodeo those are usually our biggest events it's the first one of the Season everybody wants to come the last one is the finals of our rodeo and it seems like everybody says oh no I haven't made it this year this year I better get there you know it's it's a great Community Fund we usually do one fundraiser a year to try to donate some money back into the town we've offered many of the the football baseball whoever whatever sport or Town Event if they want to do a fundraiser at our rodeo they're more than welcome to and last year we did talk about possibly having the um Park and recck commission if they wanted to do like a fair with us at our rodeo grounds and try to promote some more Town business to be made know we're trying to do our best again hindsight's always 2020 we're going to try to get better with the the help of all these gentlemen that have been working with us you know which we'd like to continue to with our rud for the 2025 season all right thank you very much I appreciate it um so I I can anybody have any questions before I say anything I kind of do all right y are you the owner you're I am not the owner I'm is he the owner Elias is the owner yes I'm the yeah his second language his first language is Portuguese his second language is English so it's just easier for kind of for me to talk fa fair enough do you do you have legal representation uh no how come oh for the rodeo yeah no for this situation oh no tell me I think that's the best money you're ever going to spend because they're going to guide you uh the right way dealing with the municipalities and our Public Safety officials and it gets to the end much quicker for you um these guys are the best of the best and we're going to take their recommendations as gos and these are these are basic public safety requirements that they've given you a lot of leniency on excuse me and if these requirements that these guys I'm going to cut to the end right now instead of going back and forth with the get out of jail free cards that you've already had if you don't comply by you know when you want to have your first event and it these guys don't unen happppppy with the basic public safety requirements I you know speaking for myself I'm not going to be able to support renewing a license for you um do you operate in any other municipalities cities towns no okay so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt um and as these guys have significantly this past year and um just the end game is get somebody that knows how to deal with these guys the right way and that's going to get you to a favorable position much quicker it's going to be the best money that you're going to spend I get that you guys want to do stuff for the community and all that I mean everybody does yeah but um given what's transpired over the past you know this past season we're at the same point we were the last few times and I don't see any forward movement and it's not to waste people's time and you guys need to open or you guys need to get this stuff done that's just all I see it um whether you have legal representation or not which I highly recommend so they can they deal with these guys all the time and they know how to get you where you need to be much faster with a lot less money and just my recommendation for you we we we have a lot of people in town like you said that do attend the event and it's a great event but these are basic Public Safety things that we have you know zero discretion with at this point there's zero discretion from how I see it what these guys say is the letter of to me you know and I speak it for myself not the rest of the board yeah I understand where you're com you know and I know you're trying to help and all that but um which you did a good job up speaker um and uh I just think that's your best path moving forward um just my opinion thank uh anyone else on the board no okay um I was basically going to say a little bit of the same um you know my family and I enjoy the event we go every year a couple times a year um and what these four gentlemen said I I again I I can't say it enough I put my 100% faith in what they say um and if they're saying something's not safe then they're doing it for a reason and I've known all four of these guys to be uh lenient when possible um but when they're when they're putting their foot down on something then it's it's something I pay attention to immediately so um I I think for me at least um you need to you need to get on the same page with what they're requesting um otherwise it's it's there's going to be an issue and I and I I I'm the biggest businessman Norton businessman there is and and I don't want to see anything I don't want to I don't want to not renew a permit because of of misunderstandings of this I want to see this succeed I want you guys to succeed yeah so no I I totally understand it it would it definitely be helpful if you know instead of having a meeting and it's just verbally said maybe have it written out on Norton letterhead that what exactly is required of us it has it's only been it has been a couple times the first couple times it wasn't now that has so let's so let's do this I mean let's get on the same page and I think so hang hang on one second so I know the last time we talked about this um there was something in Reading correct gentlemen there was something yeah so and that was before the last event and I and I I do believe one of the requests and this is I think I made this personally was that um you know I know you don't know if there's going to be million people there or 50 um but when you see that becoming an issue to call and let the police know so they get somebody down there I think that happened last time was corre yes it did call I think I remember that late it was a couple hours way too late so yeah so let's you know that's let's let's go that let's update that list and well let's go through and see what we're going to do now but um yeah go ah um just one quick question what is the long-term plan there you guys did you guys put a Sak in the ground you there for long term one year just one year well the owner the owner is uh working with a developer right now to the owner of the property to develop that property and he's more he more or less told us they have one year and then he's developing the property he's getting his plans together now so with that being said yeah the you got fortun you got to put into it for one year yeah the honest say probably next year going to the end of next year is going to do you have another site identified to run the road uh yeah you do yeah is it ready this year is it in town sorry say again is it in town yeah in nor in Norton yeah so yeah so the same problems you're going to have here you're going to have the other side too so it's I think I think the sooner we get everybody gets on the the same page the better here um so if there's any questions from R we're going to if there's any questions from the audience um we'll take them now and then we'll um I'll turn it back over to attorney Coro was that you have do you have a question yes on when say your name and address for the record thank you Ralph Stephan La 12 James Street Norton was the owner through the chair through the chair I'm sorry Robert thres through the chair please through you to them do you give me approval to ask one question yeah ask me the question ask you the question thank you was the owner rambling when he said yes we have another site but wouldn't give it up that's my concern in other words are we being told hey I got another site and we're stuck with a one-year contract with all of our help and and energy that's put in by our professionals it's a good question but but the answer was that it's another site in Norton and so no matter what no matter what site we're going to that's for the record yeah that's but he didn't it wasn't answered that way it doesn't matter what matters is is this site right now has to be okay I in my radar up that's all thank you thank you R okay um do we you want to close public hearing first or do you want to I know I think we can stay in public hearing at this point um all right well thank you through you Mr chair um so and just to clarify this is a one-year license for calendar year 2025 um and it is not transferable to any other location um so any license that you grant um is for this coming calendar year 2025 and this location only um the owner would have to come back in um and ask for um either renewal to 2026 or for a transfer to another location so you know only dealing with what the site is here um and you know the information that you've heard was that this site has had problems um in terms of overcrowding not enough parking traffic um and other public safety issues and you know the purpose of you issuing this license is to make sure that the events are conducted according to the statute in a way that will protect employees patrons and members of the public inside or outside the premises from disruptive conduct or from health safety or fire hazards um and it appears that the way that the events are being held now that maybe they're not achieving that goal um and I think it is very clear from um the department heads that are here that that there needs to be safeguards in place before these events occur not as they're going on or and not well we know we had a problem this week but next week we'll try to do better um I think in my opinion there needs to be um you know clearly established benchmarks that say you know this is how many people that you can have for an event and once you get to that number of people the gates have to close um and you know you need to have a certain number of detail officers in place before you start and maybe for this event you only get 10 people and we don't need that many but it's always better to take away for detail officers than to have to try to add them while the event is going on um and you know then there are other things that are more um concrete like you know the the safety of of the bleachers and the grand stands and um I understand the portable bull was a was an issue last year so these are all things that um are appropriate to have addressed in a license um and so you know my recommendation to you would be that um you know you essentially have um three options here you can you could deny the license um and make them come back with a new application at some later time you can approve the license as you've always done and hope that they will work more closely that they've heard the warnings and will work more closely with your public officials or you can you know continue the matter um pending um submission of um operations parking and safety plans approved by Town officials with recommended conditions before you act on the license um or finally you can sort of Grant the license but with the condition that they not be allowed to open until public officials have signed off on it okay um any any questions from the board yeah Mr chair um this might be a question for the town officials um but what what does inforcement look like um you know if the day of an event there's a thousand people on the property and there's two Port potties and you know we have someone there and see this is this a all right everybody get out we're closing the place down type of thing or you know so that's that's my question because we can put all these things in place but then I want to know what the enforcement looks like if I could speak on that a little bit I'm hoping that part of again through you Mr chair um I'm hoping that we can get to the point where we have an an occupany number um one that is their regular routine um events and if they're going to have a larger event we have preliminary meetings ahead of time to know and we can discuss these matters um obviously I'm not going to be at every Rodeo to watch the pter ons um but at the same token I also know that you know we can't just keep winging it along like we are you know what I mean um so if we can set this up in such a way where we have that ticket com we have that head that headon we know you know on the average how many people are going to be there and if we're going to have a larger event um we need to be made aware of it and we need we need to have a preliminary sit down with them to it maybe it probably will be quick if everything's in place but we need to be able to do it talk to them and make sure these things are in place and right now to to bring you back to how we even found out about this Ro Rodeo I got to complain about noise that's how we found the rodeo and I chased it and chased it and chased it and and took a ride down this dirt road and came across New England Rodeo that's how we found out and that's how this thing started years ago and um you know the town has worked very hard to try to help them stay going we understand it's a great event for the public uh but we need to bring this into into control it's out of control and um yeah if to me I'm not speaking for all these guys but I'm pretty sure they agree me agree with me that um things like that happened on Columbus Day and uh Memorial Day um they should just be automatic shutdowns done if that happens again shut it down everybody go home uh because these guys need to know that we can't just keep going all right we'll look aside and we'll talk about it after it can't happen to anymore uh because something serious is going to happen there and it's going to come down on all of us so thank you thank you very much thanks any other questions um I guess it's more directed at Nick as well too there uh there's no occupancy permit requirement there's got to be some you know I guess my question is I you know I'm at in Florida and these are all over the place as well as the car auctions all over the country that I go to and they're all Outdoors yep and they're very organized but one thing you have to do is have they they know the count by the admission tickets or registrations um so that gives them a guide there's always people that stop in you know Walkins C but there needs to be some sort of guide to be able to produce parking uh plant you know pter John's a seed in you know and all that stuff I I you know I don't know is there any other yeah so um so basically it's it's really not an open air event um we have we have fixed heating with bleachers um over the last couple years has been as he noted there's been some trailers you know like a 52t trailer on the back of a Mac truck um that have been dropped on site with some holes cut in the side and some pressure treated St built just kind of in front of them and that's how people get in um so yeah those bleachers all should be certified um tied down to a footing a certain way to meet the wind Zone compliance of our area right each bleacher there's a calculation the building code that his engineer should be able to figure out pretty easily based off of how wide the bleaches are how big they are how many rows you have your your your stairs going down off the bleachers there's a certain calculation square footage per person that's allowed in that that blueair in that grand s we'll call it right um and they they accomplished some of that late summer I believe when they had their architectural firm go out and give us their preliminary um plan which again to his point was before their last event they knew I'll say two weeks generously at least two weeks before they knew um what they were up against with needing to to install some tie down footings for these bleaches needing to um there were certain sections of the trailers that in their report noted either structurally had to be repaired or be blocked off completely um none of that was done none of that was taken into consideration for that last big event that happened um we did talk about it we absolutely did talk about it and we shut we did shut down all the all the trailers the trailers were shut just sorry I'm just so yeah to his point I can't confirm I I didn't either way um but but to answer your question Alec yes there there there is there is a a an Avenue through the building code um to come up with an actual number of safe occupant load of that event I mean you have you have standing room only that there's a calculation in the building code each like I said previous each bleacher Grand St area is going to have a specific number to them you know so for instance if you have a if you have three Grant stands that allow for 50 people in each grand stand that's very simple math right um this The Standing Room is based off of the squ footage of of The Standing Room space just like at the TD Garden right for example you have TC Standing Room TPC you standing so so it's not a fair per se it's not a carnival per se where you may not have um an occupant load like the the the VA the VFW does you know in the summertime you know that great event that we do I say we they do you're not going to get an occupant count for that event it's an open air Carnival for like a better term this is a little bit more than that um there are specific calculations that can be made and be completed and that's what we're looking for so that's what we originally spoke about is if we can get a number say the number if the number is 400 people if the number is 200 people if it's a th000 people then we can almost work the next step would be to come up with a parking plan based off of the allowable occupant load of that right so they gave us a preliminary parking plan over the summer that showed 980 something Vehicles if you average four people per vehicle at nine let's give or take a th000 Vehicles that's 4,000 people in this event with one way in and out of this event like the deputy chief and chief Clark both talk about God forbid there's a car fire there or a mass event um that they have to get into and you have 4,000 people trying to get get out of this event in a one-way road while they're trying to get in with a fire engine an ambulance three four five potential police cruises I I'm thinking hypothetically worst case scenario we're all going to have issues so we need some type of a limitation we need some type of a cap to these events um you know and that's what we're hoping for my goal from a building code standpoint my goal and I told you this I said this multiple times is if we can get a legitimate certification of Grant sends or bleachers with an occupant load I can then go in and and work on issuing a valid occupancy permit for this event a seasonal occupancy permit that says you are able to have X amount of people in this section of bleachers this section of bleachers this section of bleachers and they're they got to be labeled they got to be numbered and that count has to be posted on each section of the grand stand um then legitimate ability purposes right for for the town and the event we have an occupancy per you can legitimately occupy these spaces and have these events you know in conjunction with a potential license from you and the approvals from these department heads we haven't I I've been here since 2020 we haven't had that okay um every year certain events certain certain businesses certain buildings we have to do yearly inspections through the building code I have to do a yearly inspection as we complete those inspections we issue yearly certificates of inspection that basically is a you know for like of about term it's a certificate of good standing from the building department that says hey for the year 2025 we did our inspection and you meet all the requirements that you need to meet and they can post that next to their occupancy permit every year we've never done that we've never got to that point because and this is this isn't a a a bash a dig at anybody when I came in in 201 20 this is how things happen right wrong good or bad so we would go and we would check out the beginning of the season and every season like Chris said there would be something new there right there would be a new trailer there would be a new set of bleachers they're they're good people they've always tried to do the right thing for the most part that's not I've never once tried to attack them personally I'm not trying to attack them now um but it's got to the point where we're at a Crossroads where either we need to legitimize this stuff for for liability purposes like I said for the town it's it's also for them um or we need to you know through you guys we need to make a decision to find another location where we can we can have a legitimate event every week um you know I'm the same way I I would love to see them succeed but I also want to see them succeed and I want to put my head on my pillow at night and close both eyes and sleep knowing that I don't have to worry about an issue on a Saturday night in the summertime so follow up question to that Mr chair um so is a seating is going to determine that's going to drive the occupancy not parking plan or anything like no the O the whatever they decide to do for bleachers for um standing room um you know even I mentioned in the letter your announcers booth and stuff like that the that that that all has to be taken into consideration um and that's going to drive no pun in 10 that's going to that's going to determine how many vehicles they going to be allowed to park on site we have a a by a parking bylaw right so they have to meet the requirements of our byar as well um so it's got to be an occupa count first then from there we can come up with a a parking plan where it's going to involve you know Chief Clark and deputy chief Robbins because we have to make sure that we have proper turning ruses for emergency responding vehicles um depending on the situation there's even been potential for maybe a water line for fire hydrants and suppression God forbid something happens but that that's all after we determine how many people we can safely have at these events and and we can certify the bleachers you know what I mean that so there's a there's a path to success and I think we've laid it out more than once at this point um more than twice at this point but for some reason like he said they had two weeks left in the season and they didn't feel it was necessary for them to have to really make many of these adjustments because they wanted to get through the season so in my opinion with all due respect in my opinion they threw us to the Wi because they wanted to get through their season and said well we'll deal with it later after we get through our season get we so when does the season start this starts in May and ends in September May okay so we have some time um so that was my question M Mr chair can can I just add like a a word of clarification so the building department is going to establish the maximum person occupancy that can be on the site based on the the structures that are there right that's the going to be the maximum it could very well be that the parking plan will determine that the true maximum is much less than that because you can't park enough cars to get the maximum number of people in right so these things are all going to work in conjunction with each other and um you know as as Nick said like you know you're going to have to look at things like fire lanes and turning radiuses for for fire trucks um you know determining where there is available parking I would imagine that you don't want the bike lane to be um taken up as parking on on weekends and so you know there really needs to be sort of a a multi- you know phased approach to this where um you know each of these departments is going to come in and say okay this is the maximum that that you can have to comply with my requirements and of the four of them the lowest number is going to be what the maximum is um and you know and these guys have all worked very well together to try to manage this thing but you know I think that it's time really that the applicant come forward and take some responsibility for that management and present plans to the town rather than the town having to present plans to them okay so so it seems like we don't have an occupancy number yet obviously that's very obvious um and in my opinion I think that needs to happen before I mean at least personally before I approve anything um yeah good and that's my concern because as Nick said the season ended in September and I know the engineer was supposedly hired even before that and we still don't have this done and now we've got how many months till May and this is what happens every year we're going to do it we're going to do it so let's so let's break that cycle let's break that cycle and and you know no more you know supposedly and this this some they're going to do this they're going to do this I think everybody get together come up with a plan and then we revisit I mean that's going to be my recommendation is to table this but um you know I think I think I personally want to see them succeed I think everybody here I could probably speak for everybody we want to see him succeed uh that's not going to happen unless everybody gets together and the plan is actually followed um I want to see a plan followed before I vote on on this personally yeah and if I can um like Mike said we did get an initial review from from an architectural firm that gave us that gave us occupant counts um but that was taken into consideration the existing layup with the trailers with modifications to the trailers with the bleachers with modifications to the bleachers last ation we had that's all changed so unless they're going to keep the site exactly the way it was when that architect did that review it's null and vo if we're going to change it yeah so I I would say revisit it and and meet together and that's I just I mean that's that's my recommendation um again I take I take everything into account and and if if you're saying it's not safe or you don't believe it's safe um I mean I wouldn't sleep at night either so than um if I can ask the board one thing if just to keep in mind when they do this and they come up with the the amount of people that are allowed on the property in the past they they pulled special permits through through your board uh with approval through the fire department the police the building and stuff like that with their their amount of people and we've blatantly gone over that without any any any regard of of Public Safety could we Institute a what I would suggest a very harsh penalty to to the rodeo if they go over that capacity now we have the ability I have the ability through through the fire code or Nick does through the building to completely shut down the property again not really where we want to go but I think that we also need to to Really hold a harsh penalty for them so they know that that it's not okay what they've been doing in the past personally I'm I'm 100% for that I think that's I think that's reasonable um but I think that's something for again once we close the public hearing I'm going to probably look to to table this but U that's something I would I would love to see included I would just be careful about that because if you're singling out one business over another for what they're doing we we might get ourselves into a can of worms by doing that um if we want to have a townwide um policy for that I think that would be fine um if people you know don't follow uh their permitting that would be fine I just uh I don't want to single out one necessarily one business it might just give us a a problem legally um um I would also like to say that um I couldn't be more Pro business for our town but my first concern is the safety of the people in the town um so I have a problem with back in August we had a meeting and got a letter from uh the building inspector out all these things that if it they didn't follow these things these steps then they weren't going to be able to open and now I'm finding out that they didn't follow all those steps and they still finished out the season so I'm I'm really concerned with that that um and I'm concerned that no matter what we say it's it's an Enforcement issue if no M it doesn't matter what we say if they're going to do whatever they want to do then it's going to be a problem um I don't know how we fix that so I don't know I agree with you uh deputy chief that there needs to be some consequence for not uh doing what you say you're going to do um and not living up to the standards that are set for you but I'm just uh I'm not sure how we fix that yeah well I mean if the enforcement is to shut it down at through over capacity then then that would be the enforcement that that would happen to anybody else so Mr chair okay um just on to on that note um you know as an event is occurring um Public Safety officials certainly have the authority to you know shut the event down or order that corrective measures be taken right then and there but in addition to that you know looking sort of more forward this is a an event that occurs on weekends and so you know if you have a um violations during the first weekend of June you can bring them in for hearing and say you are not opening again until all of these um deficiencies are corrected um so you know there is strong incentive from that respect because you know if they're going to be subject to tighter constraints um they're going to be at risk that if they violate in their first event that first event will be their last event um in addition the statute provides for criminal penalties for anybody who is responsible for violating the terms of this license which would include um punishment of a fine of up to $1,000 for each offense or imprisonment for one year or both um so you know there are serious penalties um if you are to um create conditions on this license and those conditions are not comping with all right thank you any other questions yeah Mr chair through you um to attorney corbo um so the idea I think we're we're talking about here is uh tabling this or moving this forward um until such time as certain conditions are met um could we um also is it possible to put a time frame on there so to say if these conditions are not met by just pulling out of thin air April 1st um then um we will not approve the license for the season in other words I'm trying to put sort of a finite end on the time frame here rather than just saying we want this all done at some point before the season starts I'd much rather be able to say as you know if if this stuff isn't all done by April 1st you're not getting your license for the season I agree I I do think that you should you know my suggestion would be to continue the hearing to a date certain um and with the understanding that in between now and that date um there is going to be um you know a an operations um operation parking and safety plan that is approved by Town staff have and if you don't have that on that date then it's likely that the license is going to be denied um and so you know I would I would leave it to you know the the department heads and the applicant to try to figure out what that date should be um and you know I also think that you want to you're go or you're going to want to work in some sort of you know pre first event inspection you know that occurs right before that event um and so you might want to work that into your timeline as well thank you um I just a point of note for me I think this guy's a businessman and it's in my opinion it's not I drop the babysit him and make sure he does what he needs to do for the for the permit it's it's up to him if he doesn't have it by the time this first event and we don't we don't get it if these guys aren happy then it's it's all on you guys it's not on us or these guys that's how that's just how I say you're businessman you need to make money so you need to make sure that it happens and that's why I say you to in in a turn to keep you ahead of the the game so you're not falling behind I just don't want to see what what happened to you this past year happen again that's just my my opinion I have a question if I have my capacity but if I sell the tickets while people try to come in I have to shut my gate because more people try to come here what am I going to do so I think okay I think there's a quick remedy you have couple people counters at the at the gate how they get in right do you have that now yeah but if I have if I have my capacity every and uh I have my capacity already full then more people try right to come and what am I going to do that's going I think he's saying we can we can control once we close our gates and it's it's off we can't help that if people are parking on the street without that's that's when that's when you contact the police and this is something that or the fire department this is something that can be worked out beforehand and you there should be a plan in place for what you should do so so those questions you don't have to ask on the night of you you know beforehand you're people at the ticket booth know okay if we have to close and there's still 500 people out here what are we going to do you this is the plan this is what you do exactly so I think that's I think that's what we're getting at here is we want we want to have a plan together so that you don't we want we want to help you succeed and and to do that you need to follow these guys Direction and and have a plan another recommendation is you know the wrist pants you if you know, of50 bucks on Amazon so you you know you can count that way in people that don't have a wristband you have people that walking walking through if they don't have a wristband they got to go you know that's up to you guys to monitor that stuff we do that already we definitely do that already we just how Mr chair if if I can how do you guys sell most of your tickets you sell them mostly online or walk up or walk up so walk up so that so yeah so once you hit the certain Max you just you have to turn people away at that point so Mr chair Mr I think I understand what you're saying about once you close your gate how do you control the people outside the gate so that's where you need to have a police detail out there to help you you need them out you may need to have an extra detail if you're going to have a larger event get you might need two extra details however many you need um so that's something you have to work out but we can't have what happened in that Community happen anymore that can't happen no we totally understand so this this is nor really the point in the meeting where I'd say like I'm looking to close public hearing but I don't think we should do that I think we should continue it um to a later date I think I I was looking at the calendar February 27th is a couple months away should give everybody time to have gotten together um do we think that's fair get an update yeah or at least you know continue to the 27th it still has plenty of time before the season opens uh that way we get an update make sure everything's going the right way and we'll get recommendation if these guys are happy I'm sure I'll be happy I'm sure these guys will be happy too so um so with that I'd look to continue this to the 27th I need a motion for that though not February 27th Mr chair Mr Maron I make a motion we continue to public February 2 second all in favor I I I oppos all right this is continued till February 27 2025 thank you thank you thank you all for coming in thank you thank you very much all right thank you guys for your time how are we only at minutes approval of minutes including Ben not lied to October 24th and November 7th Mr chair Mr SN I'd like to make a motion oh I would love it to approve the minutes including the N limited to October 24th 2024 and November 20 November 7th 2024 open and executive sessions second second all in favor I okay uh 2025 license renewals we have a few or just one I think we have have good night everybody all right thank you thank you all right great thanks guys thank you oh you didn't want to stick around for the fun stuff I thought that was the fun stuff guys set me up here I'd like to thank Ralph stefanelli for sticking around yes second my second test always Mr chair Mr President um are we going to approve the license for uh New England R is that the only one no there's one other okay no so we'll just do read the other one okay Mr chair Mr meron I make a motion that we approve the CV license for Tasty n LLC doing business as tasty Bagels cold streets and more 103 West Main Street second okay all in favor I opposed excellent uh the 2025 seasonal population increase estimation form for alcoholic beverages uh uh Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission this um I believe is for seasonal issues and we usually just put zero on this correct it's uh as you said earlier when we talking it's based on down the towns like down the cape that double their population in the summer they get extra licenses issue by the abcc but we we don't have that so do we vote to just put zero on this um I talk to attorney Caro you you don't have to vote just as long as you know moving on acknowledge do that okay review discuss or vote to approve the release of assignment and pledge of liquor license and alcohol inventory regarding uh uh Maria Spirits LLC doing business as 123 beer wine and smoke I wish that they were here because that place just open he was planning to be here I thought right what is the deal with is just sell go ahead um my understanding of it is that they had a pledge of the license that they're just trying to release at this point this the same ownership is just as simple change that they're no longer doing that and there's a letter included the packet explain that all right any questions Mr chair Mr Mery I make a motion that we approve the release of assignment and pledge of liquor license and alcohol inventory regarding orenia Spirits LLC doing business as 123 beer wine and smoke second okay all in favor I I opposed okay uh next up we have announcements Mr chair Mr Maron I'd like to make an announcement uh for National re Across America day is going to be December 14th 2024 that's this Saturday um on at the Norton common Cemetery um you could sponsor every today by placing to be placed on a veterans grave this December 24th you can scan the QR code or make a donation at re across am.org correction is the 14th it's this Saturday I believe Satur that's right didn't I say Saturday thought that's what I thought you said oh you might have said 2024 I thought you said 24 okay apologize go ahead I'd like to also make an announcement that the town is having a Cod drive now through December 20th coats only please all sizes a welcome at Norton Town Hall Library did you say Lobby the Norton Town Hall Lobby sorry okay I'm okay um next up um and and with all the Hue with J barrows um I should have recognized this right afterwards but uh we wanted to give thanks to the Norton Housing Authority for the use of their facilities so we put a letter to together um and Roger uh if you don't mind could read that into the record sure Dear Mrs salby and the Norton Housing Authority Board of Commissioners on behalf of the select board we would like to express our deepest gratitude for allowing us to use the Woodland Meadows community room of the Norton Housing Authority for our meetings while we were waiting for the construction of the new Hall town hall to come to completion your authorization to host our meetings at your premises gave us space to hold productive and effective meetings for the public to attend safely and comfortably thank you again for your hospitality yours sincerely Norton select board Mr chair please I humbly accept I had nothing to do with it uh Mr chair Mr SN I certainly appreciate the nor Norton housing authority and that's that's awesome um we also had some other folks right like the Li and nor Media Center um so I just want to suggest that we also maybe do a thank you to those folks as well absolutely I think everybody's been very uh um accommodating of all of the boards in town for a long time so I think that'd be a nice gesture oh absolutely yeah I mean the library let's we go the library has been fantastic um the senior center the the old Senior Center we we used for quite a few meetings um the Middle School we've used we've used bog iron B okay fair enough we about us but other board yeah so thank you to the Norton housing authority and anybody else yeah is very much appreciated yeah um okay next up we have the mass Community electric aggregation renewal so yeah I just wanted to let you know that um it's we still have a year to go on our current agreement um but we're going to start the process of going out to B again and um the program since it started in January 2016 um we've had three contracts um and the current contract started in December of 23 and will end in November of 25 and our current rate is uh 0.578 4 kilowatt and this is far the supply side only on your bill and um so since this program uh went through um so through September of 2024 uh residents and have saved $9.8 million in electric bills small commercial industrial $ 85,000 and large commercial industrial 1.8 million are a total of 12, 510,000 in savings um I don't know if I think you have this in your packet there also a CH that shows uh where our fixed rate has been over the years versus National Grids up and down rate with the seasons and uh so as I said the timeline now is we're going to begin the process and uh hope to go out to bid in February and uh have a good rate for the next renewal all right excellent um any other business no okay I approve the warrants as written just one thing under Tom's report oh um as we uh finished up the end of our licenses I want to thank Jen for all the work she's done on those licenses um a lot of work as well as paying all the bills for the two projects at the same time and uh I appreciate uh I can hear the people come in and talk the way Jen has to talk them through filling off the paperwork out and uh she's uh very professional and uh I appreciate it thank you than Jen thank you Jen Mr chair Mr s since we're all doing thank yous um uh we had a pretty nasty Storm come through the other night um I was uh uh driving my daughter probably shouldn't have been on the road but I was driving my daughter to her friend's house um and um you know Nemo was out there emergency manager was out there doing their thing the police fire um the folks who do the works on power lines um so you know this that was pretty nasty stuff the other night so I just wanted to um say thank you maybe on behalf of the board if I can to all those folks um who uh you know get get us keep us safe and keep things running in the town so thank you to all of those people cuz that was pretty crazy well said very well and that's it we're about to do my favorite motion here you friendly Ralph s 12 James Street friendly is BET Rossy on the agenda like she should be or is it coming up or did I miss something no we're moving that to um to an appropriate meeting where we're going to deal with the budgets thank you I could have left with the other guys so that's the only reason you didn't stay cuz you wanted to stay well I wanted to read the letter that I had written along with our manager at the Housing Authority but it's not proper now sorry well I'll get even with you in my mind about that my okay so now I'm looking for a final motion motion to agend Second all in favor hi thank you all very much [Music]