Welcome to tonight's meeting, Thursday, November 6, 6 p.m. Uh, let's start with the pledge of allegiance, please. I pledge >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Yeah. Okay. So, this is this the one. These are not on.
They're not. >> Hello. >> All right. So, this is a joint meeting of select board planning board and board of assessors. Uh for the select board tonight, we have a full board, Kevin, Denise, Bob, Roger, and myself.
and I turn it to the chair of the planning board to open his meeting. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good evening. I'd like to open up the Thursday, November 6 joint meeting with the of the Noan Planning Board with the select board. We have four members in person. And could someone check if we have
anyone remote, please? Maybe Rob Welsh. No one. >> No. Rob Welch. >> Okay. Four members in person. Okay. So your meeting that called to order and Rick if you could call uh your
meeting to order please. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you, sir. So, uh we are looking at uh appointing Mr. Jim Shabet to the planning board.
>> Uh that's correct. Thank you. We received a request from the microphone does feel low from Mr. Shabet uh to join the planning board. He comes highly recommended with a vast knowledge of zoning experience with the planning
board and would be a great recom addition to the planning board if the joint committee so chooses. So this would be a joint vote and would have to carry a majority of both boards combined. >> Okay. So, I'm looking for a motion from
my board. >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> I make a motion that we appoint Jim Shabet to uh for the open seat on the planning board. >> Okay. Any discussion? >> I just like to add to uh what Mr.
Tom just indicated that was the um but he is my I've worked with Jim in the past and he is a very very knowledgeable person when it comes to zoning. He runs his own business. He pretty much knows what's going on and I can't think of a better candidate to to backfill his
position at this time. Thank you. >> Right. Absolutely. So, uh Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> And I am a yes. Unanimous for the select board. Mr. Chair,
>> thank you, Mr. Chair. The the chairman would entertain a motion to appoint Jim Shaba to the planning board. And to clarify, this would be until the next election. >> I'd like to make a motion to appoint Jim Javet to the planning board. >> Second. >> We have a motion and second. All in
favor? >> I opposed. >> Would you account there? >> No. >> You want a roll call? >> Can I? >> Sure. Steve, >> yes. >> Bridget, >> no. >> Eric, >> no. I'm a Yes.
What's that tally? It >> passes. Yeah. Majority of the votes. >> Okay. No one else on Zoom or anything? >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> You can You can close your meeting, Mr. Chair. >> Chair would entertain a motion to close the planning board meeting.
>> Motion to close the planning board meeting. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. I'll do a roll call vote. Steve, >> yes. >> Bridget, >> yes. >> Eric, yes. And I'm a yes. Thank you. >> Thank you guys meeting >> and congratulations Mr. Shabet.
>> Okay. So minutes. Any discussion on the minutes? >> Anyone? >> Chair make a motion we approve the minutes of October 23rd, 2025 as written. >> Second. >> Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger.
>> Yes. >> And I am a yes. >> Okay. Thank you. So, we are moving right along. I'd like to skip over licenses and permits real quick and go to new business for recognition of Edward El
Burgess for years of dedicated service for the Norton Fire Department. Mr. Burgess, can you come up please? Sir, let's go. Congratulations. >> Okay, so Ed, this Hang on. Got to put my
eyes back on. >> So Ed, this certificate of appreciation. May it be known that this certificate is hereby presented to firefighter Ed Edward Burgess in recognition of more than 40 years of dedicated dedication, leadership, and service to the people of the town of Norton. We thank you for
your tireless work ethic and your achievements in the protection and betterment of our community. We wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors. Presented November 6, 2025 by the select board of the town of Norton. >> Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Enjoy. You're welld deserved. >> Congratulations. Well done, sir. >> Is a good painter, too, by >> I painted the ceiling. >> Firefighter Ed Burgess has been a member of our department for more than 40 years. I want to say thank you for all
that you have done for us over your long career. In addition to your work as a firefighter paramedic, you have led our dive team, our fire alarm division, been an honor guard member and worked on many projects and volunteered for countless community events. Your contributions over the years have undoubtedly made our
department and our community a better place. As you move forward with this new chapter in your life, I hope that you do so not only with a great sense of pride of what what you have accomplished during your time here, but also knowing that we recognize and truly appreciate all that you have done. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You want to say something? >> Yeah. Say something. Come on. >> Speech. I just want to say uh >> do it since >> it's been an honor serving the people of Norton for all these years. It's a dream
come true that I was able to do my what I always wanted to do my whole life and uh and I I'll never forget I'm I'm still around. I'll be in Norton forever and uh I I appreciate everything and uh it's it's very very hard hard time for
me right now but um I'll get through it. Thank you. >> Congratulations. Thank you. >> Thank you, Ed. >> All right, Mr. Chairman, I believe when Ed first started, there were no EMTs. Do we have any EMTs back 40 years ago?
Paramedics who came later on, right? >> Yeah. But you seen I'm sure you've seen a lot of changes in the department and uh the Burgess family has a long history of uh serving the community. So, uh we thank you for all your years of service. You did a did a great job and
>> you're looking more like Santa Claus every day. So, thank you. >> Don't avoid the guy. >> I mean, there are no cell phones. >> Just this one. >> You just speak to it and say this is okay. >> Okay. Thank you, Ed, and congratulations.
Uh skipping around a little bit because we have a public meeting um a um >> public hearing coming >> public hearing at 6:15 that we have to open promptly but uh we have time for uh under licenses and permits change of hours application regarding Champions
Indoor Golf for Inc. DBA Champions Indoor Golf located at 253 Mansfield Avenue. Mr. Town Manager, >> thank you. This is a license that was already approved by the select board in the alcohol beverages control commission. The original application
just had an a scrier's error where they put the wrong hours. They put the summer hours by accident instead of the winter hours. So, we're just looking to correct that from it was listed at 5:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. Now it will be Monday through
Thursday 10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. and Friday through Saturday 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Sunday 10:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. as outlined in the change of application. Um, so it looks straightforward.
>> Okay, Mr. Chair, any questions? I make a motion that we uh approve the uh change of hours for the uh retail alcohol beverage license application for Champions Indoor Golf.
>> Second. >> Okay. No further discussion. Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. >> Rob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> And I am a yes. >> Perfect. Rip through that one.
All right. Uh, another one. We could get do number three quickly if if you think we have time. Two minutes. We could >> Which one's that one? >> Wait. Or do number three. Puff and pour. >> They're just looking at >> We can't Well, that's 6:30 public hearing. >> Oh, right. Right. Right. We can't do that one.
>> Yeah. >> I just I worry that number one might take more than a minute. We could >> we could try. Up to you. >> N we don't need to we don't need to force it. We're waiting until 6:15 on the dot for the public hearing. Okay.
>> Do we have any announcements, Mr. Mr. Clerk? >> I don't. Um I do I do want to remind everyone that Well, I do have for you. I want to remind everyone that uh Veterans Day is the 11th. This is Tuesday. And uh we'll be having our annual uh Veterans
Day parade signing commencing at the high school and going down the West Main Street, the East Main Street, down to Pine Street, turning around and coming back. So uh hopefully you you folks will be available and be aware of the fact that we do start now just across from
Freeman Street and come down that way. So again, that is Tuesday, starts at promptly at 10:00 in the morning. So, um, we'd like to see you all out there support our veterans. >> Um, Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> I'd just like to add that, uh, any
veterans who would like to participate in the parade are welcome to either march in the parade or we have a float. If they're not able to march, they're uh, welcome to come to the high school and they can ride in the float for the parade as well. >> Thank you, sir.
>> Mr. chair. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, this was obviously your your um choice as you just made as a chair, but I I wanted to note that the public hearing for the tax classification, it can occur anytime after 6:15. So, I I
overheard you speaking. I think the turnpike auto sales you think it might take some time, but it's probably going to be a good half hour, 45 minutes before we get through the tax discussion. So, out of courtesy for those applicants, I'd like to ask if you
could reconsider that >> would be number one under licenses and permits. >> I I I I understand. Does any any anyone else on the board have any thoughts on that? I'd like to give respect to the uh board
of assessors as well. >> Yeah, Mr. Mr. Chairman, the only we could do that is to open up the meeting at 6:15 and adjourn the meeting. >> Yeah. >> For further discussion at a later time, but that's really the only way we can change it. >> Yeah, >> it's 615.
>> I' I'd like I mean it's 6:15 now, so we have to open up the um FY 2026 tax classification hearing. chairman door.
>> You have to vote to open the public hearing portion of it, >> Mr. Chair, >> which you could do before or after the presentation. >> Okay. >> Um I make a motion that we open the public hearing for the fiscal year 2026 tax classification hearing.
>> Second. All in favor? >> I >> I >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. The slate board will conducted a public hearing in accordance with mass general law chapter 40 section 56 on Thursday, November 6, 2025 at 6 p.m. in the crane meeting room of the Norton
town hall located at 72 East Main Street, Northern Massachusetts 02766 for the purpose of determining the percentage of the fiscal year 2026 local property tax levy to be born on each class of real and personal property.
Okay, good. This is Ellis. >> Hey, hello everybody. Good evening. Close. I know we're going to Do you want to put this up there? I mean, let me just read it.
>> Um, sure. We can do that. >> So, I just have a PowerPoint presentation that we'll put up. one for you. >> No, I can just read it. I just read it. Okay. All right. I'll just start. So, um, tonight we are doing
the classification hearing. Um, I'm Denise Ellis, director of assessing along with board members Richard Dornney and Mike Mason. The purpose of the hearing tonight is um to adopt the town's tax policy by
allocating the and classifying the tax levy among the five property types. And the five property types are residential, open space, commercial, industrial, and personal property. Um in the packet I gave you um the
schedule of how we do our classification and we start January 1st starts the property evaluation and from there um we're down now to the classification hearing after this um hopefully the do
will approve everything and we'll get the tax bills out in December. So I am on number four. Okay. So um tonight um for the select board um you'll need to um vote on a few things. Um first of all, you're going to
we're going to you're going to vote to maintain um either we have a the shift, right? So let me back up. We did a split split tax rate back in 2023. Um so now we have um residential and commercial industrial and personal property. So right now we are at a um
1.05 shift which can go up to 150. Um so tonight it's up to the board to decide how they want to shift it. That's one of the things we need to do. The other thing we need to do is um you're going to vote on a residential exemption, a
small commercial exemption, and then we'll talk about um open space. Just to remind everybody, um, by shifting the tax rate does not mean that more taxes are coming in. We're just allocating the taxes a different way
and the property assessment review. In order to get our assessments, we are looking at all arms length sales that occurred during the calendar year of 2024 for the um assessments for 2026.
The state requires us to do a um um minimum assessment of 90 to 110% of the sales. And this year we came in at 93.5, which is pretty low, which is good. New growth this year came in at 861 076
and out of that the new growth for residential was 447,410 commercial was 39,86 industrial was 247,777 and personal property was 126,083.
This graph is just um it's just a graph of a historical growth just to give you an idea of how the growth is going. You'll notice last year was pretty big. Um that is because we had some of the warehouses that were completed along with an apartment complex
and that's why it came in so high. This year we're back down to the 861 which is around average for us. The next page gives you the total valuation. um for the residential class, the commercial class, industrial class
and personal property. So we are now at 81.34% for residential this year. Then that's just another graph showing you um what has happened between 2020 and 2026
for for the growth and for the assessments. And these are just a couple of graphs to give you a better idea of how much we have for residential properties, what the personal property is in commercial and industrial.
Okay, this is the important page. On the left hand side, you'll see that the grid, this is called the LA4. This is what we send into the state. This gives us a total valuation of the properties for 2026.
I'll give you we have the residential um commercial industrial and personal property. So in from here what we do is on the left hand on the right hand side you'll see the levy limit. This is how we get to our tax rate. So we take um the
maximum allowable levy that we have. We divide that by the total valuation of all the property in town and that gives us a single tax rate which is around 1319. And now from there we're going to we're at we are at um 105 right now.
And the with that the tax rate for residential would be 1304 for this year and then 1385 for the commercial industrial and personal property. From here these are all the some of the different shifts
that we can look at and decide if you want to do any of those shifts or if you want to just stay at the 105. This will give you an idea of what the tax bills would be on the average value of the home. So a single family value for 2026, the average family home is at
565417. The average condominium value is at 425,247 and the average commercial industrial and personal property is 1,89560. So the average so for um at 105 with the
average being for a single family of 565,417 with uh tax rate of 1304 the average tax bill will be $7,373. The condominium will be 5545
and the average CIP would be 25,62. This grid just gives you um a look at the average of the assessments over the last few years from 2020 to 2026. You'll see that everything is pretty much going up um except for the CIP which has gone
down for this year which I explained earlier. This has been the average tax bill over the last few years from 24, 25, and 26 to give you an idea of how things are increasing. And this is um the average tax bill with
the different shifts that you could choose from. For instance, if you decide to go with a shift of 110 instead of 105 for the average family, if you went to the 110,
you would um save $85 for the residential. And then the commercial would go up 1,194. And as you're going on um going down to the different shifts, you'll see that the residential will actually drop where
the commercial will increase. The next page is just um tax rates for the surrounding towns from FY25. um we don't have FI26 because everybody's just doing their tax rates now. But that'll give you an idea of where we fall within um the other towns
surrounding us. And here are the top 10 taxpayers for 2026. So that is all part of the um tax rate. And the next items that you guys would vote on would be a residential exemption. This is an exemption that
really isn't for the town of Norton. It's for um cities and coastal communities. I mean the towns can opt to adopt it but what would happen is um the lower value homes in these areas would um
their value would go on to they would get a I'm sorry let me start over again by shifting the rate it would increase the taxes for the um vacation homes the rental properties and the higher value homes and the lower value homes would have a lower tax rate
this like I said it's usually for coastal communities in cities cities. It has to be your primary residence. Then the small commercial exemption, it's an exemption up to 10% of the valuation of the commercial property.
You cannot have more than 10 employees. Um, all the businesses would have to qualify within the building. And the exemption goes to the building owner, not necessarily to the business itself. Um, right now I just gone through the list. is really we don't really have too many that would qualify for this
exemption. Um and again it would go to the businesses that we do have the business owner not the the building owner not the business itself. And as for open space um we actually don't have any open space in Norton as that I know of. All the land that we
have in Norton um is owned or donated to the Land Preservation Society. So, we don't have any open space in Norton. And then the last page is just an idea. I'm just giving you um all the classification terms
so you have an idea what they all mean within the packet. And that's my presentation. >> Thank you, Denise. >> Questions? >> Any questions from the board? I do have a question actually. Thank you. Um, so Denise, this is my first
time uh with this uh tax classification hearing of course. Um, so I wanted to learn a little more about it before asking dumb questions uh tonight. So Denise was uh gracious enough to um uh spend about an hour with me yesterday
uh explaining all of the process and and patience with uh with all my questions. So I I just wanted to say I I appreciate that and thank You're welcome. Anytime. >> I I wanted to ask if the board of assessors has any recommendation on what
shift that they feel they support. Yeah, we um we met at our last meeting and it was uh agreed upon just based on um our prior uh presentations what we see as far as um you know small
business versus large business in town with the planning board and the town and generally is moving towards um we thought maybe a 1.10 10 would be fair um and in line uh with I think the
town's general movement and um you know obviously the residents are 80 81% 82% of uh the tax base but we want to keep that in check um you know so and
remember um you know small business is a big part of our community as well. There's many companies that have been around for a long long time. Uh and you know, if you think about it, um Cumberland Farms, I think, is a perfect
example. Um that's really uh is about four years in the making to get that built, but every time it drives by, I drive by, it's busy. It's uh showing value to the community. And um so you know I think you want to be in that in
that area of a 1.10 10 and um you know and again you still want to attract um the bigger bigger companies. Um I know we were close what about 3 years ago maybe Bob would know this but I think it was Thermo Fisher
Scientific was trying to uh was interested on South Washington Street the old Toyota building and um you know gave it a >> Mazda >> Mazda. Okay. Sorry. Um
yeah and um and it came up short and um you know we gave it our good shot. Um but uh you know I think you just got to weigh all that. So in short I mean we all agreed that was a uh a fair number. >> Very good. Thank you Richard. Mr. Chair,
I I wanted to mention also um that if naturally given the growth chart that you showed with the average assessments by commercial, residential, condo, you can see how the commercial assessment has outpaced by far residential
assessment. the average. I think a lot of that is probably weighted based on the the the large new projects we've had like on Lennard Street for example, which as you can see they're our number one um taxpayer almost a million dollars a year. So you would think that if you
did nothing that your percentage of taxes collected from commercial and industrial would outpace would grow higher than 80% 81%. When you consider that Blueest Star Business Park is um
around 2% of our tax receipts as it is, that alone would as well as these other ones would naturally increase our business tax base over time. So, um
so that's what we should hope to see as we see more business growth in town just because of sheer number of businesses, not because of how they're taxed, but just because there are more of them. uh if you know what I'm saying and larger ones at that. >> So, um I I wanted to to mention that I
I'm a a fan of the dual tax rate years ago and I'll tell you why. And it has little to do with shifting the burden to businesses. It it doesn't have to do with that. um commercial property and residential property
um increase at different rates, different cycles, you know, based on the economy, the real estate market, that kind of thing. So, if you go back to 2004, 2005, when the real estate market was at a bubble and then we had a crash
and then we had the great recession, real estate values declined and commercial properties, some of them increased. And I remember listening to the slight board meetings back then. They wanted to stay with a single tax rate because they wanted to protect the businesses. Ironically, if you look at
the tax bills from the businesses during that time period, the business's tax bills went up much higher than the residential tax bills because it's a factor of the tax rate and the assessment. And when the assessments go
up, um, your tax bill is going to go up regard, you know, if you don't change the the rate. And, um, and the same thing happened with the residential, the tax bills kind of leveled off. Um, so I always found it interesting that the decision was to stay with a single tax
rate so that we wouldn't shift the burden to the businesses. And in effect, what happened was because we only had one tax rate, that's exactly what happened. The the shift was pushed to the businesses. So I think with two tax rates I think that's the right way to
go. I wanted to point out that on this average tax bill sheet you can see that the average uh single family assessment was up 5% uh 06 to I mean 26 to 25 condo is up
about 5.8%. And the average um value for commercial and industrial if you it's 2.123 went down to 1.809 that's a a 15% decrease.
So to my earlier point and what Denise had mentioned that the the average assessment for commercial and industrial went down quite quite a bit. So if we had a single tax rate today, businesses would be seeing a 15% decrease in their
tax bill and homes would be seeing a 5 to 6% increase. So I'm with um with Rich when it comes to the shift for those reasons and to level it off a little bit given that the the
shift in the assessments. I I um I'm all uh in agreement with either the 1.1 Z or even the 1.15 because I think the 1.15 levels things off even more uh between
businesses and uh residential. So either one of those I would be fine with. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Anybody else from the board? Questions for Denise? I I guess I'm the I'm the one with the history here. So I'm I'm the one with a
factor of one for many many years. The reason the British board of select members used to hold maintained that one one level was because we were trying to encourage additional industrial commercial property in in Lorton. Uh I
still believe to this day we still are trying to do that. Now back in I believe you said 2022 was when you split the rate. Um, I was not aware of that until, you know, recently that the the rate had actually split. Um, if we were to continue to
draw new businesses to town, keep in mind that the businesses in town not only have a minimum impact on our our expenses. First of all, they might have a call for a fire or perhaps an ambulance which they'll have to pay for
anyway. Uh but if we want to become more res less residential, more commercial, we need to start thinking a bit more about that and how we can achieve that. Now, I know $84 doesn't sound like a lot of money for the most part. Um and
obviously, even though I wouldn't have supported the increase of 1.05, it is there. And I'm not going to suggest we go backwards either. I'm not going to suggest that at all. But I think we have to maintain a certain level of of uh property value
and the property values. If you look at the the new village core commercial districts we have and the village commercial districts uh every one of those is is required to maintain the service on the first floor. Commercial service on the first floor and
residential above it. We want to encourage more of that. I'm not sure. I'm not I'm not pleased about the the residential half of that. Although I am pleased about the commercial side. I don't think we should touch this at this point because we have other parcels now
that are starting to look attractive to us that we might be able to encourage further development. I was on the board of selectman that that railroaded and pushed hard for the blue
star. We were the ones that started the process and as you can see from the from the rate chart uh we we benefited great way by that that increase where the top three taxpayers now coming from that area. We want to do more of that and we don't want to scare anyone away. Now, it
doesn't sound like a lot, but if you think about our businesses in town and what they do for our town through baseball, sponsorship donations that were always all of us are always out knocking on doors trying to get stuff and all the other value that they they
serve uh to our community. We, like I said, relatively very very low um cost to the town, the town itself. It only makes sense that we tried to encourage more of that to happen. 17% of our tax bait base base is,
you know, commercial and industrial. Um, that's not good. If you if you did a comparison of neighboring towns, you'd find that we're in the one on a very very low end of that. So, us residents are all paying the taxes that because we don't have that commercial tax base.
Personally, if it was at 25%, I'd go to 110, 115 without even without any objection. But we're not there yet. We've got a ways to go. And the other part of the process is as a business a previous business owner myself I can tell you that personal property taxes
can get be could be very expensive also. Um if you're doing well and you have a lot of inventory you're going to pay dearly on your taxes. So that's another factor that we have to keep in mind. talking about a commercial tax rate because that personal property can also
be uh increased quite a bit because if you're having a good year, you're going to be you're going to have, you know, a lot more um inventory and that type of stuff available. So, I'm not inclined to change it one way or the other. I think the 1.05 is is probably the right number
for right now, but I don't think that I'm ready to uh to bump that another five or 10%. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kimell. Any others, >> Mr. Chair? >> Yes, sir. >> Um, so there's a lot of numbers
obviously. Um, so I'm looking at the average um commercial and industrial value is 1.8, but then I'm looking at the top 10 is 20 30 times that.
So I'm looking at what just by changing it from 1.05 to 1.10 that 1194 that the average industrial bill will increase
will be 20 30 times that for some of these businesses that is that correct? >> I'm sorry. Say that again. >> So the I'm looking at the uh average tax bill with the shifts. >> Mhm. And I'm looking at what the average
commercial and industrial value is. It looks like it's 1.8. But then you gave us this top 10 taxpayers and those are some of them are valued at 20 times that.
So they'll be paying $20,000 more. Is that correct? >> That's right. I know what you're saying. Yes. Yeah. So it I'm not inclined to change it only because I think it's it's a big shift to
the industrial side to a smaller portion of the pie that we're trying to cultivate here in town. And as opposed to the $85 that which is the average tax bill that uh we would save, some of
these people will be paying way more than the uh average that's here. And >> how many of these um the average home, how many fall into that range? And do we
have more that are less than that? Do we have more that are more a lot more that are more than that? Do we have any idea? I mean, I understand it's an average tax range, but I don't think my house is valued at that. And I don't know whose houses are or where how many we have and how much they're worth. So, if if we're
saying that the average taxpayer is going to save $85 if we make this change, it might be less than that if they're, you know, whatever, depending on what their value is. Right. >> Right. That's all. Thank you. >> I'll just add to that, Roger. Um,
>> you know, we our intent was to do it a cautious step to 1.1. Um, if you looked at the growth last from FY23 to today, I think it averaged just a little over a million dollars. Million dollars. you break that out. I think a lot of it was
with new growth from housing permitting. You know, does that continue? I don't have a crystal ball. You know, you hear there might be a little bit of a patch in the economy. Um so, you know, we we just were, you know, keeping an eye on
our residents and uh trying to make a judicial decision or, you know, something that would be acceptable. Um, but I think all these numbers what we're talking tonight, you know, it's ultimately your decision and um I think that they all they're all logical.
>> Um, I'm not saying that any of it is illogical. I'm just saying that uh I don't know that shifting more to a smaller piece of the pie is the way to go. And everybody wants to look out for the taxpayer for
sure. Nobody wants anybody's tax bill to go up. Um, we'd love it for everybody's tax bill to go down, >> but if we're going to be trying to increase our commercial and industrial base, then putting more of a burden on
them, I think, is a bad trend because the only trend we've seen is it going up. >> Yeah. Yeah. Mr. I mean this would be at least I think we're all in agreement that the split is the right direction and um you know if we went back this would be the fourth year with the split
rate um you know FY22 um you know was the single single rate of 1427 so you know it you know it all adds up at the end but um yeah I think um you
know you guys decide that was our recommend commendation but um you know >> if I may Mr. Chair. >> Yeah Kevin >> um so what's really important to under first of all when we had a single tax rate the year we went to a a split dual
tax rate both tax rates went down from what the single was the year prior. So it's it's not the tax rate itself that drives the tax bill. It's more the assessment. is the values >> value is the value if you if you go back
in history that >> in even the past three years with the dual the split tax rate it's been very very stable it's like only a couple clicks different year to year it's the assessment that really drives the tax bill more than the than the rate itself and
this year in particular which is really something that we should all look at is the average commercial and industrial value dropped from 2.1 2 um million to 1.809 million.
>> So, so the average commercial and industrial val valuation dropped 15% last year to this year. So, like I said, if we do nothing and we leave it at 1.05, even the average commercial
industrial business is going to see a 15% decrease in their tax bill. in the in the residential increased >> in the residential have a 5 to 6% increase. So if we if we go with the 1.10 shift, businesses are going to see
an 18.5% decrease. We go with the 1.10 shift, businesses are going to see a 10% decrease. So that's why I'm recommending the 1.1. If you go to 1.15, businesses are still going to see about a 6% decrease. So given that the the average
assessed value has decreased so much every year you have to reassess it of course because the shifts right next year might be the other way you might have to correct it the other way next year. >> Yeah. So normally like when the when the assessments go up the tax rate will go down and when the values go down the tax
rate will go up higher. So they they have to balance out. >> So next year we might be having a completely opposite discussion but we'll have to we don't know until we see what the assess assessments are for next year. But if you go with a 1.05, the average business is going to see a 15%
decrease and the average uh homeowner is going to see a 5 to 6% increase. So that's why I was going with Rich's suggestion to go with 1.10. At least we kind of balance it off a little bit. Businesses still going to see a 10% decrease, but homes are only going to
see a four to 5% uh uh increase. So I I guess I can't say it any more than that. That's kind of where I'm coming from. >> Thank you, Kevin. >> Sure. >> Anybody else? >> Except for Zach. Anybody but Zack? >> Zach Tillis. Three Richmond. Two
questions. One, um, to piggy back on what Mr. Masan said on the industrial businesses, how many of them do we have a number on how many of them are classified as manufacturers and are exempt from personal property taxes? It's my first question. My second question is, where are these rates
compared to the immediate surrounding towns? That was one of the slides. >> So, we have last year's rates. We don't have this year's rates because people are starting to get their numbers in now. Um, and I'm sorry, what was the first question?
>> Oh, manufacturers. Um, we I don't have that number, but it depends on the manufacturer. If they're registered with their state, then they're exempt. >> Correct. >> Right. So, I don't have that number. >> I don't know how many that is. No, I'm sorry. industrial they're getting a break already with this designated
manufacturer. >> Correct. >> Like Nylon, the big pharmaceutical, that's a manufacturer, right? >> Not paying any personal property. >> Correct. Correct. Probably most of the the big ones are not paying them at all if they're registered. >> Well, they shouldn't be. And is paying
443 grand a year in real estate tax. >> They're still under a tip. >> Yeah. >> You'll see you'll see that increasing as the years go on. So they'll be paying more. >> And Denise threw you chair. Also speaking of that, um there are a lot lot
of other new businesses that are not on this uh top 10 taxpayer because they because they have it they're under an early tiff right now. For example, um Yale Appliance is is a big one. So yeah, >> that might be one of those uh blue stars. >> No, it's not. We were checking that yesterday.
>> Yeah, there's only there's only two tiffs on on the top 10, >> but there are tiffs that are not on the top 10. Yes, there are tips that are not on there. Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I have a question, Mr. Chair. >> Sure. >> When you talk about tax rates and
surrounding communities, >> it's not really a great assessment to be able to do that because if their property values, if their value is higher than ours, their rates going to be different. Correct. So when you do a comparison of what other towns are doing in the neighborhood, it doesn't really
make any sense because if they're more affluent, they're going to have a, you know, maybe maybe they'll have a bit of a lower tax rate. Uh, but their value is higher, right? >> So I mean there's so many different ways to look at it, but >> Yeah. And their budgets are different. So that, you know, that's makes a huge difference. >> A lot of them have different splits,
too. >> Correct. A lot more commercial. Yeah. >> Right. Right. And to that point, Mansfield's tax rate is just a little more than ours for residential, but their assessment uh is probably 15 20% higher. Their tax bill is about 20% higher, even though the rate doesn't reflect that.
>> To to Bob's point, >> is it the valuation, >> right? >> It's all valuation driven. >> Lucas Ray, I'd like to hand these out for you. Sure. I think six.
>> So that's just a little chart that I did. I pulled it off the DLS. It compares the 25 surrounding towns. Interesting. >> And if you look at, you know, if we do the math, you average out the 25 surrounding towns, the rate is 11.55.
where Norton was 12.97 for the residential the commercial. So that's about what a point and a half uh different if you look at the commercial average the 25 surrounding towns the average is 17.22 Norton is 13.79.
So that's like three and a half points different. So you know we we definitely get a juicy commercial industrial rate here at at the 13.79. almost four points lower than every single surrounding town on average. And on the residential rate, we're a point and a half higher if you
average it out. So, you know, if you move the shift up to the 1.10, then the residential rate goes to 12.89. So, it comes down a couple ticks. If you leave it at the 1.05, it goes up a
couple ticks. So, you know, I think we uh the 1.10 is fair. I actually agree with Kevin. I think we should go to 1.15. You know, I know we got a lot of mom and pop shops, but we also got a lot of mom and pops, too. So, and uh you know, there's a lot of big businesses
that are getting tax breaks. You know, specifically some of these solar farms that are getting abatements and, you know, there's a lot of big businesses that come into town and you know, we grew up the you know, this this town is a residential town, not a commercial town. We're not Mansfield. We're not Foxboro. you know, we don't want to turn
Norton Center into Mansfield Center. So, you know, we already got a juicy rate. So, there is a little bit of room to um increase the commercial industrial rate, you know, if we're three and a half points lower on average. All we're doing is enticing, you know, these huge builders and and factories from to move
into Norton because we got such a juicy rate. So, I say we give the homeowners a break and adjust the shift up a little bit. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. Um, thank you for this, Lucas. Um, I don't think that what this takes
into account is the amount of commercial properties in each of these uh surrounding towns and communities as well and how much commercial base they have and what their split is on what they're um collecting as well. So,
looking at these numbers, it looks like we're kind of in the middle of the road. We're not uh we're not way above anybody and we're not way below anybody. We're not uh taxing people out of their homes and we're not giving huge tax breaks to
anyone either. Um I just go back to just making sure that whatever we do that we take into consideration all of the taxpayers in Norton. So thanks. >> Thank you.
So one point I have to piggyback on that you know everyone needs to understand that that the rates the tax rates commercial industrial personal property residential all driven by the value base so it's all the value so if there's you know double the
valuation to your point Mr. from us and you know the valuation of the homes in Mansfield, Foxboro East and it that you know much higher than Norton. Norton it is what it is. So um you know the the rates the rate because we have to stay within the levy. So it it just doesn't
matter what the you know the the the values determine the rate and you know with from a commercial standpoint um you know we the the commercial payers are paying between three and 4x
total dollar value comparative to the homes already. So, um you know that's my major point. They already have a uh because of the the value of their asset is that much greater. So, they have the
privilege to pay 3 to 4x more. It doesn't matter what the rate is. Again, I we we shouldn't be focusing on the rate at all. It just doesn't matter. It's the valuation, right? and um you know the the commercial properties commercial industrial and per personal property fall in that bucket as well.
>> It does. Yes. >> So so with that you know it's a it's between a three and 4x of total dollar volume that they are paying in tax. So I think that's probably the most important part to understand. Um and I think of
one 1.05 5 myself. I I think that is um you know the past two years we had the you know the same hearing and um I voted in favor of keeping that. Um it's a little bit of an edge. Um I got on the board right after it was split. It was
split by the board previous to me being elected. Um, so that's that's my I pay a lot of real estate tax, both residential and commercial in multiple states. So I know it intimately and the valuation is it
and it >> correct >> tax rate means nothing. It's the valuation >> value. Yes. >> And the like I said the commercial industrial and personal property are paying a 3 to 4x more >> than the homeowners just because of valuation. And like I said, they're they're privileged to be able to own the
property and have a high valuation, so they get to pay more. So, >> I'm in Yep. >> Go ahead. Finish. >> You're done. >> I I'm in favor of keeping the rate at the 1.05 as well. >> Danish, can we talk a bit about personal property?
>> Sure. >> So, can you give us just an overview of what that is and what basically what you uh what you tax? >> Sure. So personal property um is depending on what your business is. So say you're a salon um in your salon it would be like you know your chairs um
all your inventory anything that you need to use for that. Um restaurant it would be all the equipment like your tables your chairs your coke machines your coffee machines things like that. Um, it so it all depends what the business is, but um,
>> so, so the last I knew, unless it's changed, if you had a pre-manufactured home, a mobile home. >> Mhm. >> Those were taxed on the personal property tax. They were not taxed under the normal >> Well, like a mobile park, you mean? So, that is um like Yeah. So, it's personal
property, I believe. We bill the the the landlord for everything and then they divide it up between the mobile homes. So it's just >> Would you agree that most of that bill is based on the value of the property itself, not on the the units that are sitting on it, >> right? So it's valued on the property,
but we also have an area that we have like how many units are there and then we we tax that. So we figure that out as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Another concern I have about personal property is if I'm a property owner now and I have to have inventory, the salon, my own store, I had a retail
store, right? >> Um, and I'm buying from overseas, I'm not now I'm going to have to pay these tariffs on top of it. So, another factor that I would take into consideration is I'm going to be paying more for the product I'm bringing in. Therefore, I'm
bringing in less. So, what do we do when our personal property taxes start dropping? because the businesses just don't maintain the amount of normal inventory they might normally have. I mean, is that how's that how does that adjust things
in any way? >> Um, I mean, we're using I guess what I'm trying to say is we're using values on your on your spread on your sheet that's showing us what you think we're going to take in personal property tax for the year, but it may be less
>> because inventory is down. >> Yeah. I mean, we'll have our company go out and take, you know, they go out and they review all the personal property. Um, and it get does get depreciated over the years, so that does go down. >> Um, but yeah, they do get hit twice, those businesses.
>> Okay. >> So, Mr. Chair, I I just one last question I forgot to ask you yesterday, Denise. Um, so the real estate um valuation, you you use actual sales price as kind of like the baseline, right? Right. And then you mentioned
it's like 93%. You kind of resettles the the assessment across the board. You use those as the reference points I guess when you reassess every. >> So we have to use um we're always two years behind. So we used all the sales from 24 2024. They set the values for
2026. All those home buyers to then which by the way I got this from a realtor. That's how many homes sold in Norton in 2024. >> I mean we're talking 180 200 homes. Yes. >> Now, how do you manage it with commercial and industrial? Because you
we don't have nearly as many sales. >> Um so the valuation company does that. Um I'm not a commercial appraiser. Um but they they look out they look around everywhere. They're not just looking at Norton. They're looking at what warehouses are selling for. Gotcha. >> Um things like that. So yeah, they're
not just staying within the community. >> And they have all different websites that that they use to get all their valuations. Very good. Okay. My last point, Mr. Chair. So, if we select the 1.05, then the average residential homeowner is going to see a 5.5% increase in their
tax bill. The average condo is going to see around a 6.2% increase in their tax bill. And the average business is going to see a 15% decrease in their tax bill. That's based on the 1.05. The 1.10
is softened on both sides. So it's you for 1.010 it's 4.6 5.0 and a 10% decrease for businesses. That's why I'm leaning towards 1.10 because not only um your board is
recommending it but um which you're much in more in tune with this than we are but also I think it's fair across the board still giving businesses a break um by the way. So >> that's what I was going to say even with
the 1.10 10. With the changes in the valuations of residentials going up and commercials coming down, it almost is like a status quo to what they're paying this year. >> Yeah. >> Compared to last year. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. If >> I could add to that,
>> that's good for this year. Next year could be the other way around. >> Could be. >> It could be commercial, could be higher, residential, could be lower. And >> it's going to be >> I can tell you that I'm not going to be the guy to say let's drop it from 110 to 105. >> Yeah. >> You know, I I think we need to look at
this at a not on a yearly basis, but kind of project ahead what we we anticipate is going to happen in the very near future. >> So, our sales haven't gone down yet, just to let you know. They're still in increasing. They haven't even flattened out yet. We might see that come going
forward now, but for 25, they haven't decreased. They're still increasing. >> Yeah. Again, >> just to let you guys know that >> my concern is I don't >> No, I know. >> 2023 I wouldn't have gone 1.05. >> Yeah. >> But now we're here. I'm not going to be
the guy to say, "Okay, if you want a $565,000 house, I'm going to now take you 85 bucks back." I'm not going to do that. We're there now, but I don't feel comfortable going up that extra five or 10% at this point. That's that's my only concern
>> based on what's going on in the world today. I I have a concern about that. >> Would >> anybody else? >> We'd have to make a motion. >> I think we took care of that. You've been beaten down. >> How do you do the vote now, Mrs.? >> So, we do Well, do we take the vote? We
close the public hearing for discussion. >> I should close the public. >> So, I'll take the motion to close the public hearing, >> Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. >> I make a motion that we close the public hearing. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> Mr. Chair, so this is a public hearing,
so the public can ask questions. You may want to ask if there's any questions or any comments from the public first. >> There any questions from the public? Anybody? >> I thought I everybody that wanted to speak already spoke. >> Yep. Fine. Thank you. >> It's just Okay.
>> Good point though. It's only one. >> We see you. >> Oh, no. >> Chained him into it. >> Bob Brisco, three Brenda Road. Um, I listen to a lot of information. I don't
really have the presentation, but I am a homeowner and I'm also, you know, looking at the businesses in town and looking where we are as homeowners and I think it affects all of us and we all know that we need to have more industry
in town to help us. And but we also need to keep a level plane here. And I don't know about how everybody feels here, but the crystal ball tells me that we're going to see a decline in um business
and revenues and stuff as we move forward and um it's going to hurt a lot of companies. So I think we just ought to pedal very lightly on what we do and um try to keep things as level as we can and hope for the best as we move forward
because you could you know you can go forward but um it's hard to go backwards. So I know that's just my thoughts and a lot of good a lot of good information from you folks. Good. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Mr. Briska.
Okay. So public hearing is closed, right? Anybody else? No. Closed. Okay. >> So, yes. Yes. On the closing the public hearing. >> We already took that. We took that. >> Did we take a vote? >> Yeah. Okay. Vote. >> Yep.
>> So, >> okay, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, I make a motion that we uh leave the split at 1.05%. >> Second. >> Okay. motion in a second
discussion. Kevin might come back to this, but I'll say no for now. >> Denise on the fence. Um >> and no, >> I'm going to say yes.
>> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> And I am a yes. >> Mr. Chair, >> yes, sir. >> Uh reconsider uh the vote, please. Okay, >> I'll vote yes. >> Okay, Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, Roger, >> yes.
>> And I'm a yes. >> So, u Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> I would just really like to thank uh the assessor's board and the assessor's office for all their work that they put into this. This is a uh a labor a laborers's task that you go through every year. Um, if I could make a
suggestion that um, so if we as two boards could get together earlier in the process, I think it would help the select board um, more um, so that we're not trying to absorb all this information.
>> Sure. shortly before we move. >> The one issue that we do have is that everything is on a time restraint because by the time we get the new growth in and hear back from the state and get the this hearing in and get it in before the holiday before Thanksgiving, um it's tough because
that's when everybody puts theirs in and there's a long waiting line. So, we just want to we like to do it early so that we don't have an issue with them not getting set in time. So, we can try to do that. Definitely. I I'll definitely try to get the um valuation company to get the new growth in earlier so that we
can get into the state earlier >> and you know it's almost incumbent upon us. I mean we could go to your meetings as well and sit in the audience and listen to the information too. So you know we should be doing that. >> Yeah absolutely. >> Yeah. All right. Mr. Chair. >> Yes sir. >> The uh Denise we have three more votes
you need to >> Yes. Okay. I was just going to say that. >> Yeah. >> Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion that we that we adopt the residential exemption. I guess I'll do it in the positive. So my my motion is to adopt a residential exemption.
>> Second. >> U remind me again what that was. >> So okay. So I'll just remind you if you're if when Bob says he wants to adopt it, if you don't want it, then you want to vote no. >> Vote no. >> But but the residential exemption was what exactly? So the residential
exemption would be um >> water >> you it you it would put for the lower homes their tax their tax rate would go to the higher homes. So if you're in a a low below the average home
their their rate would decrease but the upper value homes would increase. >> So you're putting that there you're going to allocate it to the upper level homes. >> Okay, >> the most expensive homes. Does it? So, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think we actually need to vote on these other
exemptions unless we're adopting them. >> I believe we have to vote on >> the small exemp small business and the open space. >> We vote we always did adopt we always did vote on them and I think it's the court being to give the assessor a clear
defined example. I mean just just so she knows what what the board is thinking. >> I I mean you're you're welcome to. There's no no harm in it. I I'll just clarify with the the residential exemption that would shift taxes from
the >> lower value homes to the higher value homes. >> From the residents to the landlords. >> Well, I suppose it could happen that way. If if you if your landlord's rent goes up, then you're going to end up
paying more tax down to their tenants right through. >> Yeah. I mean, what I'm what I'm suggesting is when I suggest we adopt a residential exemption, I'm voting no. >> I'm not voting yes for it. I'm just following the process that we've done in
the past. We've always had to take these four votes and I would encourage you to do so. >> But you're making the motion in favor, but no. >> I'm making a favorable motion, but I'm voting no for >> correct. >> And I probably do the same on the other two also.
>> Okay. Did you already make the motion? >> We have a motion. Second. >> Okay, Kevin. >> Um, so discussion. Um, I I believe that a no action, same thing as a no vote, but I'll I'll follow Bob's lead. He's got all the 24 years of
experience. Um, I'll vote no on this. >> Okay. Denise, >> no. >> Bob, >> no. >> Roger. >> No. >> And I am a no as well. >> Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion that we adopt a small commercial exemption. >> Second. I have a second. Yep. Okay. Kevin,
>> no. >> Denise? >> No. >> Bob? >> No. >> Roger? >> No. >> Did we adopt this last year? >> No. >> No. >> No. So, this is something that you vote on every like you can change this every year. You know, if you want to take it
one year, you can, the next year, you don't have to vote. >> Yeah. >> For it. >> Okay. >> Open space. We don't even have any. So, you really probably don't have to vote on that because we don't even have any to vote on. >> Okay. Okay. >> I just let you know what it is because it's part of the whole thing. >> Yep. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you, Dennis. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all. >> Now we have everyone to sleep out there. >> Okay. >> Now, we're going to um >> Do they want to um Excuse me. Mr. Dornney, >> do you want to close your meeting?
>> Yeah. Close the meeting. >> Good call. >> He's adjourned. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay. Next up, we have the 6:30 p.m. public hearing. >> Nailed it. Right on time.
>> Uh public hearing on the application of Puff and Pour, Inc. DBA. Puff and pour beer, wine, and smoke manager Niha Patel for the transfer and change of manager of the section 15 off- premises wines and malt beverages license from Aron
Aronita Aronia Spirits LLC DBA 123 Beer Wine and Smoke Manager Jerry Allesandra to be utilized at 57 West Main Street, Unit C Norton, Mass 02766.
>> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. I make a motion that we open the stated uh public hearing. >> Second. >> Second. Motion in a second. >> Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Normally, yes.
>> Okay. So, we're open. Mr. Tell manager, can you walk us through this? >> Thank you. So, as stated, it's simply changing the current manager of record from Niha Patel to
Jerry Alisandratoss. Um, it's merely a package store. There's no consumption of any alcohol in the premises. Um, they also have a tobacco license through the board of health. And I believe we have a representative here.
>> Someone here. Okay. Good evening, collect board. My name is attorney Thomas Dfarian. Uh behind me here is Miss Patel actually who will be the change of manager but also just to for for a correction uh it's also for a transfer of license as well not just the change of manager.
>> Is that >> yes >> correct? >> Okay. Um so just a couple of quick questions if you don't mind. Um, so this is the I see puff and pour on here a lot, but I
haven't seen I I don't see that on any signs down at your property. It says 123 Beer and Wine. Is that the place? >> Yes. >> 123 Beer and Wine. Yeah, >> but it's under It's goes by a different name, but that's the name that you use
cuz I don't see 123 Beer and Wine on here anyway. >> It It's one It's doing business advertise. So this is a this is a change of ownership. This is uh Miss Patel is buying the premises, changing the name to Puff and Pour. It's currently 123. So
>> okay currently um without the ABCC uh's approval of this uh the uh the transaction would not go through nor would the lease that has there's an intent to p intent for the lease that has that won't go through yet is either
that's this is all contingent upon approval by you fine folks and as well as the ABCC and um didn't the the owners just open that place, didn't we? Just we we didn't I think we just recently gave the license
to this place. It wasn't that long ago. It was within the last year, I think. Right. Didn't >> far as the current owners, >> yeah, >> that I'm unsure of. No, I believe they've been in business for quite some time. >> Okay. >> They did recently get that license not
too long ago. It was in prior ownership before this current owner. So, it has changed hands since we have put it in place. So this is the second change. >> So this will be the third >> the third change for the same location. Yes. Okay. >> Thank you. I just I just I I see the
licenses come and go and I see the address and I'm saying wait a minute. Didn't we just do that? >> I I wasn't aware of that, sir, but thank you. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh Jen, we have all the sign offs from all town departments. >> Yes. >> Okay,
>> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. So, the wine and malt that you're going to be opening, when you say smoke, are you selling tobacco products also? >> The tobacco products as well. Correct. Yes. >> Okay. Anything else other than tobacco and
wine and beer? >> Beer, wine, tobacco, and uh the lottery, state lottery. >> Okay. All right. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. that right now. >> I mean if it clears everything now please
>> Jen everything is >> square with all building all the building department board of health everybody signed off. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. All right. >> That's all I need to know. As long as the department heads are good.
Okay. Any discussion, questions? Okay, I'm looking for a motion, Mr. Chair. >> Motion to close the hearing. >> I make a motion that we close the public hearing. Motion in a second. All in favor? >> I >> I
>> Okay, public hearing is closed. Any further discussion? Still none. Okay, let's do a motion. >> Make a motion. >> Just draws. Okay, >> I'll make a motion that we approve the application of Puff and Pour
Incorporation DBA Puff and Pour Bay Wine and Smoke Manager Nia Patel for the transfer change of manager of the section 15 our premises wine and malt beverage license from Antoniath Spirits
LLC. >> Second more. >> I was going to say there's >> Oh, >> there's got to be more. Yeah. Doing business >> on the Yeah. But wait, there's more. >> Okay. DBA123 Wine and Smoke Manager Jerry. Oh my god. Alice Zantis
to be utilized at 57 West Main Street, New Massachusetts. >> I'll second. >> Okay. >> Motion in a second. >> Discussion. Did we include the transfer of the license in that motion? >> She did. >> He did. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Motion in a second. All in favor? Hi.
>> Hi. >> Hi. >> Congratulations. >> You need a need a roll call. >> Yeah, I think you need a roll call. Need a roll call. We do >> Kevin. >> Yes. >> Denise. >> Yes. >> Bob. >> Yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> And I am a yes as well. >> Congratulations. Good luck.
>> Members of the select board. I thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. Back in my doc days, prior to 2019, this board had a policy on what would happen if a uh if any kind of violation happened on the property when it came to
liquor licenses. It was a very stringent policy. It was adopted by the board. I have not heard or seen of it since then and I'm wondering if we can look back and find out uh what happened to that policy if it was abandoned at some point or just forgotten. But it was a it was a
policy where we had certain guidelines. If you if you had a violation, there were certain amount of days that would be included in it. >> Was this a select board policy? >> It was a select board policy. >> Roughly when >> it was from it was 2019 and before it was we had it for many years. So,
anytime an applicant would come, we would remind them to be careful because we had a very stringent policy on if you're a first-time violator, you could lose your license for 3 days. If you came back again, it could be 15 days. It
could be revocation at some point. So, I don't know what happened to that policy, but it's going to be in an archive here somewhere. And I don't think it was ever abolished. I just think was forgotten. >> We don't have it in a bylaw. >> It was a bylaw. It was a bylaw. >> Yeah.
>> Should still be in there. I don't know. >> Oh, if it's a bylaw, that's a lot easier to look up than a potential policy. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But we will look into it and report back. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, back to licenses and permits
application of Turnpike Auto Sales DBA Furnersburg Motors to amend class 2 license. Mr. Tell manager. >> Yes. So, this is um the owner, Jacob Stone, is looking to amend his class 2 license, a used car dealership to create
two separate addresses in order to lease out a portion of the premises. So, the long-term plan is to have another used car dealership and half of the the law and to split this law in half before you this evening
is just to reduce his license to half of the property. So, at a future date, the other owner of half of the lot would come back and ask for a license. And the applicant is here this evening if you'd like to hear from him, Mr. Chair.
>> Yeah. Go ahead. >> How's everybody doing? >> Welcome. >> Thank you. >> Did you have some questions or >> do you want me to just explain what you summarized? >> Yeah, >> sure. I think what he just said was pretty accurate for the most part. Um it
wasn't my intentions to talk about all that tonight. All I was trying to do right this second was amend my license and um the amendment would be to reduce the car count to um tenant A which is the side that is exposed on Pleasant
Street. Uh currently we're occupying the whole space. We have a certificate of occupancy for the whole space and it's a 73 car lot license. We're looking to just amend that right now, reducing it down to whatever you see fit. Um hopefully you guys all have a copy of
it. If not, I can I have one or couple copies I can share with you. >> We have we have >> um so yeah, on Pleasant Street side, whatever you guys see fit for um our license count would be great. And that's really all that I'm looking to do today.
>> Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Um >> I would agree. >> Yeah, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. I I just Well, I don't know how cut and dry it is, but I I'm I want to make sure I understand this. There's a building on the property now. >> Yes, sir. >> It's the old uh Yeah. Um are you
planning on doing anything with that or >> in regard to what? Just >> either either one either either business. >> Oh, you going to share that? Yeah. >> I'm sorry. >> How would you share that? >> The only been I believe I'm under the impression that it's already been separated. I've talked to Deputy Chief
Robbins about it, the building inspector, um Nick is gone now, but I've spoken with Ed quite frequently. We've already gone through a bunch of permits that have all been closed out. We uh I believe he notified the state and whomever it's concerns to to have two
tenants available. We've separated the space. Now, there is a tenant A and tenant B. So, I'm going as the business pro the property owner and the business owner, I'm going to move my business to tenant A and leaving a space that will
be hopefully another tenant which is I'm referring to as tenant B. >> So, on Colony Road, you've got parking spaces there. >> Yep. >> That's to what you're going to abandon at this point. >> That is correct. >> The building itself. >> Yep. >> What are your intentions to do with that
building? Well, currently I have a certificate of occupancy for the entire building. Uh, for right now it will be used as an office space. >> Okay. That's what I'm trying to find out. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Just to be clear. So, you're going to keep you're going to maintain the building and everything on Pleasant
Street and then you lease out the other property on Old Colony to someone else. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> That's my intentions. >> So, and how many parking spaces do you have now? Um there's a total I believe of 90
98 I believe >> for the whole property. >> Uh yes. >> And how many you how many are you licensed to have? >> 73. >> So you want to reduce that? >> I'd like to reduce it for Yes. For the Pleasant Street side. >> Do you have a recommendation?
>> I would I would like I mean there's 48 parking spaces available. I think 40 would be ideal. >> Mhm. Uh, if you want more would be great, but I'm not expecting more than 40. >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir.
>> Um, I believe when we gave you the license to begin with that some of the parking had to go with the building. We had to have some parking available for the building. I think that you were requesting more parking spaces. >> That's why I believe we settled on 73,
>> right? as opposed to the I think there's like 20 something that's available for the building there already. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Mr. Chair, so I've been doing a little math. I think we're all aligned here because there are parking spaces and there are uh spaces that he wants for um
his vehicles. So the ratio if we keep the same ratio um 40 is a good number. >> Okay. >> For your for your uh vehicles. So that that's what will be my recommendation is we approve 40. >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes sir.
>> I believe in the past anytime a business like this came before us. I don't care if it's 40 or 48. I don't care. >> Sure. >> Uh but usually B building commissioner building inspector would give us some guidance on what was allowed there. You
know what I mean? It wasn't we didn't make that decision. They would come before us and say this is what we recommend you do. I don't have a problem with the 48. If you got space for a 48, that's fine with me. Um, as long as the building inspector
doesn't have an issue in the future. >> Sure. >> You know, he didn't indicate there's a >> Oh, no. Ed's been to the property several times. >> Okay. >> So, that was going to be my question. agenda. This is all signed off by everybody with recommendations from
>> So I did ask I did ask Ed the building commissioner to specify and he said if both are going to be caller dealerships, unit A would need 16 spots for employees and customers and 50 per applicant. The number of cars allowed under their license total of 66. The small rear office would need two spots for
employees and customers and the number of cars allowed under their license but no more than 23. As per the applicant said, there are 73 spaces. >> So, what does that mean? That's a that's a lot of sounds. >> Out of the 48, he wants 16 spots to be
for employees and customers. >> Okay. >> Of the 48, >> it says unit A would need 16 spots for employees and customers. >> 16. Unit A 16 spots for and then 40. >> There were 48 total there. So 32 spots
he's allowing >> 32. >> So Ed wants 32 parking spots plus 16 for employees. >> That's this is the first I'm hearing of it. But that math, yeah, that is correct based off of his 16 that he's saying he wants for employees and
parking customers >> for your chair. >> I think that's a little high. I mean, I don't think that there's many people constantly there. It's uh not not many employees. >> Only during the Halloween parade. >> Yeah, exactly. which was nice. >> Uh, quick question on the map with the
building. The majority of the building is unit A that you'd be maintaining. There's just a small look was like 300 and something square ft. >> Yeah. 365ish, I think. >> And they So, they have separate entrances for both of those like >> Yeah, there's one entrance on Old Colony and another entrance on Pleasant Street.
>> Okay. So, um I'm uh I'm inclined to uh go with the uh building inspector's recommendation. >> 32 spots. Yeah. >> 32 spots for the business and 16 for um >> customers
>> customers and employees. Um and making that change and that's going to be on that on that Pleasant Street side. >> Okay. Is that a motion? That >> Yeah, I make that I make a motion that we allow that we change the uh license
to have uh split the unit and uh make the Pleasant Street side 32 units for the business and 16 um for employees and for the public >> and amend the class 2 license
accordingly. Yeah, >> that second I'll second. >> Okay. >> I still have another question. So, I'm looking at the at the plan that you gave us and you're showing 48 on the Pleasant Street side. It looks like you
have a combination of 48 again on the old colony side. >> I think it's 38. >> 38. So, for a total of uh >> it's 41 >> 86 >> 5 86. Yeah. So, um,
for our whole business side of it, I don't want you to be short-handed either. So, if for some reason this other >> you get 48 >> idea doesn't work out, I don't want I don't want us to restrict it to 32 when you've got plenty of space to put more. >> Yeah, I would hope that would be I would
be able to remend it if anything were to change in the future and go back to the 73 if ever needed. If I you could always come back and go through the process again. >> I understand that. >> Yeah, >> which I would. >> Yeah, I would encourage you to do that if you're not successful at on the other
side. If say somebody doesn't want all that space, >> correct? >> And you can utilize the back of the building for your employee parking and customer parking, right? >> You know, and you utilize the front of it for selling. >> I mean, I would encourage you to come back and and talk to us about that. >> Absolutely. Thank you.
>> Yeah. Any others? So the motion >> we have a motion in a second. All in favor? >> I >> I >> I >> I >> unanimous. Okay. >> Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you. Good luck. >> Thank you. >> Have a good night. >> Okay. I don't want that one. >> We are on to Lucky Green Ladies. >> Yep. Lucky Green Ladies. Amend host community agreement between the
town of Norton and Lucky Green Ladies LLC. >> Where is that? >> Okay. >> So, this is as background. There are three um marijuana cannabis licenses
available as a whole. Um, Lucky Green Ladies does hold one. Nova holds one and there's one available. This before you this evening actually does not pertain to any of the retail. This is a delivery
that's requesting amending their current delivery license to a crier license. So, this does not count against the three licenses the town has. Um, so this one uh should be straightforward because the lucky green lady's lease is ending. So
they need to not use the property anymore. And the the difference will be they will pick up the the merchandise from another store and deliver it from to another store
whether that's located in in Norton or or another community depending on where the the delivery is called for. If it's in Norton we get the 3%. If not we don't >> through you chair. >> Yes. >> So I was just going to clarify Mark. So
changing from the delivery operator which would have been home deliveries to courier which is business to business. Is that fair to say? >> Um b business too. It could be a home. >> Okay. >> So Mr. Chair.
>> Yes sir. >> Um the way I understand it is that they are no longer are going to have an establishment that they're going to be storing the their product at and delivering it. All they are is transporting it from whatever uh
dispensary has it to somebody's home. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> And Mr. Chair, I believe was she with here a couple couple meetings ago when we had the disc discussion and she >> mentioned that she was going to come back with this further amendment and
>> we advised her to talk to Jen and accelerate it which apparently we did. Am I right there? >> Yes, that's exactly what she was asking for that night. and our attorney reviewed it and approved it. It's in line with the other HCAS. >> Great.
>> That was my question. >> KP, bless it. Went over it, drafted this, done. >> Um, yes, it's it's a a very slight amendment to the existing HCA. KP law is good with it. >> Okay,
>> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. I make a motion that we uh allow the change of lucky green ladies to go from a marijuana delivery operator to a marijuana delivery courier changing their license to state that.
>> Is that accurate? >> Um yes, as to approve the HCA that that says that essentially >> just approve the HCA. >> All right. to approve the HCA that allows Lucky Green Ladies LLC to go from a marijuana delivery operator to a
marijuana delivery courier. >> Mr. Chair, >> so to to add on to Roger's um motion basically to amend the host community agreement uh as written in the in the contract here. >> Okay. Motion second.
>> Second. >> Okay. Uh Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. And I am a yes as well. >> Mr. Chairman, >> yes, sir. >> One question we do have and we all have is who signs this? Because the way the
back page is written, it's not us. >> I think it's Is it you, Mark? >> It's it's the town manager. Okay. So, >> thank you. >> Yeah. One last thing to say. >> Okay. Uh, next item is a host community
agreement between the town of Norton and Marudi Norton LLC. I have to um recuse myself. So, Mr. Vice Chair, >> Mr. Manager, >> Mr. Town Manager, you want to give us some background on this, please?
>> Sure. Um, we h uh this is an application for our last host community agreement. Um, this would be the third. Um, it has been reviewed by legal, approved by KP Law. Um, everything's in order. I've reviewed the the finances,
um, the HCA in in a level of detail. I'm satisfied. Um, I've actually worked with Attorney Romano before and, uh, he's he's here this evening to answer any questions you might have. This looks like a an application that is also
straightforward, has been approved by our legal council. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And um Jen, all the uh necessary uh signatures have been uh received from
this. Have we gone through everything on this >> um in in painstaking detail? >> Okay. How are you? would you uh like to introduce yourself and just to give us a a quick rundown on uh what the proposal is?
>> Of course. Thank you very much. U my name is Valerio Romano. I'm an attorney with Omnis Law. Uh I uh am I I don't know if we want to do the the PowerPoint that I pres >> We don't have to belabor it if if the if you think it would be >> I don't think we need to. You we've got
all of the paper here that uh >> yeah I agree. So, um, I was a co-author of the ballot initiative, which ended cannabis prohibition in mass. I've cited well over a hundred cannabis businesses in Massachusetts. I've worked with some members of this group on a number of them. This is an excellent group that we
bring before you. And I want to thank you to the vice chair, the chair's not here, and to the town manager for I've been working with the town manager for some days on this. And Nicole Castanzo, your your attorney for the town as well. Um, what I bring before you is a great team and a great location. And we have
local representation on the team. Uh we have extensive cannabis experience. Uh we have uh doctors, cardiologists, far uh pharmacists. Uh we we really bring a really strong team uh for you. We have more than enough uh financing on our
own. We don't have to go raise money. Uh we've opened a number of other retailers, this team and our sister companies as well across the Commonwealth. Uh with the host community agreement, we'll be off to the races. uh we have the engineers and architects and builders uh ready to go. It's a simple
project. It's really just revamping a portion of the strip mall that's there at 246 East Main Street. Um, one of the things I heard earlier just briefly was, uh, you know, either a policy or it might be in your zoning bylaw maybe from 2019, uh, the alcohol policy where if a
liquor store sells to a minor, they might lose their their license for 3 days and multiple events, maybe 15 days, and it just takes a lot of effort. I for these guys, if they sold cannabis to a minor, they would get shut down on on the very first time, right? So, this is
a far more regulated industry. uh cannabis. So, that's really what I bring you. And the host community agreement is still just the first step in the process. It's really almost like a stamp from you guys. Hey, go ahead and apply. We still the planning board is a special permit granting authority here. So, we still have to go before the planning
board for a special permit. This is just kind of like a ticket to to keep applying. Uh with this, we'll be able to go to the cannabis control commission and they have extensive oversight. I know this isn't your first uh rodeo here with cannabis. I actually participated a
long time ago in your RFI process as well. So, I've been working in Norton and uh we really look forward to a favorable vote and I'm really happy to answer any questions about the location or the team or uh the way we intend to implement it. >> Questions?
>> Yes. Uh the first one's for the town manager. Is this the only applicant that we've received for marijuana uh retail for the third license? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um and then for attorney, I'm sorry, I forget your name.
>> Bono like the cheese. >> Is this just the retail location or is there any sort of manufacturing or or packaging and nothing else? >> Purely retail. No on-site consumption, no manufacturing, just purely retail in the 2,000 square feet. >> Okay, great.
Tony, you mentioned that you had um they had other locations. >> Yes. So, our our sister Well, we uh the the the primary the managing member has a location in Fall River which is open and successful. Uh we been open for at
least a year now. Uh not longer. Uh and then our sister company has uh one in Peril uh and one in Waltham. Um, and so we have they're they're separate companies, but you know, they're family and they know each other. Um, and so we have a lot of experience doing this.
They're all successful in we have letters from in Peril where we're open. We have a letter from the police chief and the town manager saying that the sister company is absolutely a pleasure to do business with and have no issues whatsoever. Um, we so we've, you know,
we we with our experience, uh, we are an incredibly compliant company. Um, and we we really knock it out of the park. It's like an Apple store. Um, it's it's really a step above what, you know, some other locations. I've been doing this for a long time. I did this in California back when it was just
dispensaries opening up in Oakland and Venice Beach. And that was a lot different than uh the oversight that Massachusetts has. So, um, and then Taton as well. I, you know, did some. So, >> yep. >> One one more question. Sorry. Uh, I know
there I know no doubt you guys will comply with the Cameas Commission's requirements, but I'm just kind of trying to visualize how would you handle the security of the delivery of the retail goods into the facility that come through the back door? Would how would that how would that
>> Yeah. And and some of that will be worked out with the planning board as a special permit granting authority, but we would certainly um make sure so when there's a delivery, they have to have a manifest. >> We have to know ahead of time that the delivery is coming. Um, and then when the delivery comes, the deliver the
agent will um be badged and escorted by one of our staff the whole time. Hopefully, we'll be able to get them in the back door. If not, we'll work with the planning board on making sure there's a secure route through the front. But I've opened these in Harvard Square where there was no parking, you know, and we you you really just make
sure that it's secure and you have totes and you can bring them in that are locked up. So, we'll make sure that the deliveries are secure. Um, >> this is in the same closet as Dunkin Donuts, right? Yes. >> Yeah. It's a very busy location. That's why that's why I was asking. >> Yeah. And that's why we're we're lucky enough to have 46 parking spaces there,
too. So, you know, we'll have ample parking and we'll be able to, you know, have a parking space dedicated for when the delivery comes right in front uh if the planning board requires, you know, we'll do whatever we need to do to make sure. And we've never had a problem with any delivery at any of our dispensaries. Uh we have another one in sort of a
strip mall, the one in Peral that we have a letter from the police chief and the town manager saying how well operation is. It's also in a strip mall uh with tight much tighter parking than this and we've never had any issues with delivery. So, we'll continue the same level of security. >> Great. Thanks,
>> Mr. Chair. It appears from our map, our zoning map, and it's really hard to see on my phone that this is in the marijuana overlay district. >> It is, and I've checked it four different ways, and I can explain that to you if you'd like, but it is. >> It looks like it. Thank you. >> It is. >> You would they would let you know at the planning board for sure if they
>> And I spoke with the planner, and he said, "You're good to go. Next stop is Mr. Gold. >> Um, I noticed that uh one of the co-founders is also a uh manager owner of the Quickstock that's right next
door, right? It's in and kind of in the same parking lot. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. That's why we, you know, we bring local business as part of our team as well. It's not just an outside group from Colorado coming in to try to make money in Norton, right? It's it's it's local folks as well. So, we bring the
the local team and the and the expertise uh that we that we need to really do one of these exceptionally. >> Thank you. >> Looking for a motion. >> I'd like to make a motion to approve the host community agreement between the
town of Norton and Marudi Wellness Norton LLC. >> Second. >> Uh motion and a second. Uh Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> And I am a yes as well. Thank you very much. >> Congratulations. Good luck. >> Thanks for hanging out. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Congratulations.
>> Oh, one last question. What's the timeline you're thinking? >> Well, I mean, with the Cannabis Control Commission, they can it can be slow. We probably wouldn't be open for 9 months, you know. Yeah. I I I can't imagine it being a lot quicker than that given the number of votes that we have to get through at the commission level and all
the different inspections in between. I mean, we can hustle that. Nobody can do it faster than we can, but it just is the way the CCC is. >> Great. Thanks. >> Of course, Mr. Mr. Chairman, that brings up a suggestion I made in a meeting a few a while back. We should probably put a time limitation on these.
>> Our attorney did. >> Did he What was it? What was it? >> It was 9 months for CCC and 16 months for final approval if I recall correctly. >> Yeah, it's nine months for our provisional approval and then 16 months for our final with it with the option
for you to give us up to another 16 months. Let's say we come back in 16 and we're not open for some reason. if we've made significant forward progress and you're like, "These guys are working on it. They're not just sitting on this HCA. You may give us some more time, but that you uh uh Attorney Castanzo did do that in the HCA."
>> Yeah. I just I just bring that up because I don't want to have a license hanging around out there forever and not >> I don't want to either be taking advantage of it. >> I mean, my my success rate is getting >> We have a couple out there now. We're keeping an eye on the liquor side. >> Yeah. This we'll be open as quickly as
anybody can be. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you to the board. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Gold. Thank you. Thank you. >> Fine. >> Anybody want to yell to Alec if he's still out in the hallway? >> Don't have to ask him twice.
>> So, um, next up is the, uh, declaration that the highway department's 1994 Elgen sweeper surplus. >> So, I'm guessing, is this the one that's sitting out, Beck? >> I have so many questions about this. I'm just kidding. >> Yeah.
>> Yes, sir. This is the Elgen sweeper is in its second life. Has high mileage, high hours, and has been repurposed uh multiple times. It we it was replaced in 2024. It needs a lot of repairs. Um that
along with uh the police department will have a couple other vehicles for surplus in on the next agenda to add to this. Um, but that's the the scoop with this Elgen that has done >> we're not going to see this uh over in
Mansfield being used for something else, right? >> I mean, unless they are um you know, looking for the bottom of the barrel. Um but but yes, you know, whoever's bidding on the auction bid, give us a good price. We we're hoping for $5,000.
>> Okay, Mr. >> Chairman. >> Yep. >> Yeah, I would obviously I remember this thing when we bought it actually. Um, and it has been a true three or four lives, I think, through the department. They have an ability down there at the highway department to keep these things
going when they shouldn't be going, but probably long overdue. But while on the subject of surplus, I believe that we should start looking at some of the other products and vehicles we have in town, too. I think that's something you've got got an eye on, um, Mark, as
far as finding out what we need and what we don't need. Um, from what I can gather in in the last few years, I've noticed that our fleet has increased. And what we used to specify and insist
on was when we buy a new vehicle, it has to go. The old one has to go. And what I'm seeing is a lot of them being repurposed. So, our fleet continues to grow and grow and grow. And I think we need to u get an assessment of what we own, what we
need, and what we don't need. Obviously, it's not not because we own them, which is fine, but we're paying taxes and paying insurance on it, registration, you know. I just think there's a lot of stuff out there we don't need. But this one here uh definitely is uh has done it
as tour. Thank you, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. I make a motion that we declare the highway department's 1994 Elgent Sweeper as surplus. >> Second. >> Motion in a second. All in favor? I >> I >> I
unanimous. >> Thank you. And um I will reassure you that we are not adding to the fleet anytime soon. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> Okay, last but most certainly not least,
Reese Across America, Mrs. Is Pat Tarantino going to do a presentation for us? >> Thank you so much for your patience tonight. >> Yes. Thank you. >> It's always interesting. >> You know, I used to sit with the Fin, >> all that stuff. But yes, I'm Pat
Tarantino and this is our seventh year. >> Pull the microphone down. >> I hate these things. Seventh year and happy to say we have full coverage again this year. Thanks to many of the people in this room and the ones that were here before
the this is our seventh year but it's like the 30th for Reese across America in itself and I was just looking it up they have over 5,200 locations last year and that's at sea international and in
this in this country. So in case any of you do not know what it is because I'm hoping people out there are going to come. We >> mayor will be there, Mr. Ghoul will be there and all all of you obviously are
welcome to come. You're welcome to speak and we have uh Representative Howitt coming so far waiting to hear from some of the others. But this is a program that we raised money all year. So even though we have raised enough for this
year, we're still collecting for next year. Um, we purchased wreaths on December 13th. I don't know if you can zoom in on that instead of me. I'd love it. >> Yeah. >> Can you do that? So, December 13th is a
Saturday. We get together and the event starts. There you go. Which way should I turn it? >> Press my good ticket. December 13th at noon, we start at the
Common Cemetery, which is a cemetery right across from St. Mary's Church. There is a script that is pre-written. We do add stuff to it, take some out. Um, we have a wonderful MC, Mr. Kimble, who does us for us. And the same script
is written and spoken out loud across the country at the same time. So we start at noon and figure the savings, you know, the eastern savings time, whatever, central mountain at the same time throughout the country, which is
pretty powerful to me. We then finish the ceremony and everyone who is there is welcome to bring a wreath to a veteran's grave site. We say their name out loud. We thank them for their service and we take a moment to just think about their life. We in this state
we have pre-revolutionary cemetery plots and then we place the wreaths and then we go on to the next one. That's basically it. I've been told people find it a moving ceremony. It's
my joy to do this in memory of my f husband and um all the other veterans in town. So I thank you for letting me bring this forward so the town can see. I thank you all for your support every year. And um
what else I was gonna say? Town hall. Oh, if anybody does want to stop by and drop off money, they're $17 a wreath. You can drop them off at Estelle's going to love me for this. She's at home sick. But um you can drop it off at Estelle's
office. She then will get them to me. You can also go on Facebook. Race Across America and Norton has their own site. You can get in touch with me. I'll tell you how you can get them to me. I pro I might need a truck this year to
help with some of the other things that we move around. I know I had several volunteers last year. Um yeah, once we're done with that, we go on to the other cemeteries. >> Thank you and good night, >> Miss Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. Um, I would encourage
everybody in town that is available on that date and at that time to just come and uh witness the ceremony that's put on and uh participate if they'd like. It is uh powerful and it's moving and it's
well done by Pat and the group of people she has working for her. So, I thank you Pat for all of your hard work on that. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you very much. All right. Other business topics not reasonably anticipated 48 hours in advance. Mr.
Town Manager. >> Uh, none. >> None. >> None, sir. >> No old business. So, town manager report. >> Uh, just briefly, I'd like to thank everyone involved with the 32nd annual Charlie Parade. There were over 60
groups. Thank everyone that participated. Uh, I think I'm still recovering from the the sugar high thanks to Chair Rich's contribution and and others. Um, also the just reporting back on the DeFosus Peterson uh food
drive that was a huge success. Over 6,000 lbs of food uh co-sponsored by Marson's upholstery shop, C2 Foundation, and the Norton Police. Uh, if anyone has any donations um, you know, keep them coming to to cupboardindness.org.
org and that will help local people here in Norton. And just echo Mr. Kimell's announcement that the Veterans Day parade is is coming up Tuesday. And here in Norton, we appreciate and honor our veterans, which is such a wonderful thing.
>> Mr. Chairman, >> thank you. If I could add to the food pantry, the I spoke to Gloria Baker down there and the obviously with the um the government at a standstill right now, there's some concern about Thanksgiving coming very soon and some
of the concerns they have about having to feed additional people that they would normally not have to. So, if anyone out there has um anything, obviously they're continuing to look for additional donations. Uh, I know they're going to meet again, I think around the
17th. They're going to have another another event, but the food drive that was done last weekend definitely gave them a major boost on what they needed, but they still need more because they don't know. All you have to do, by the way, if you're a Norton resident, is
show up and show that you're a resident of Norton. either bring a bill. You don't have to give your license, but something that that shows that you actually do live in town and you you you can take advantage of this program. So, there'll be one of those folks that's
out there high and dry and has, you know, limited resources. The the product is available. The food is available. Thanks to Mr. Maran and and the C2 Foundation and and the groups that got together and got all that to happen. There's a lot more food there now than
there has been in previous years. But I believe there's going to be a lot more people looking for it. So if you have anything, dry foods, anything that's non-p perishable that could be brought down, uh I'm sure they'd be more than pleased to to take it. Mr. Mouse, are
there any uh drop offs locations in town? >> Um thank you for that, uh Miss Kimell. Um, I know that uh they can drop anything at the senior center and it will make its way into the cupboard of kindness. There's a dropbox right at the senior center. Anybody can drop off food
there. Um, if anybody goes to any of the locations where there were dropboxes and just say, "Hey, I've got some food." They'd be happy to take it. you did a list on the >> um on the Facebook site the all the businesses that participated this year
as well as all of the uh communities that uh neighborhoods the people that got involved in. Um just to echo what you said um if anybody has any food insecurities in town and is in need there are no questions asked. If you
live in Norton and you need help there are people here to help you. So, um I would encourage you to get in touch with um Beth Rossy over at the senior center. Yep. Go ahead, Bob. >> They just had a lot of glutenfree
products dropped off. >> Gluten-free products. >> Yep. Gluten-free products were dropped off. And um one of the things that would be really helpful to people that if you're looking to make some sort of a monetary donation, whether it be um a gift card from Stop and Shop or
something, those are always helpful because it lets people go buy what they need, not necessarily what's available in the Cupboard of kindness. Um and the the work that they do over there is just amazing, the volunteers that work there. So, it's uh it's an amazing program that
we have and we're very lucky to have it here in town >> for sure. >> And Mr. Chair, also if you want to make a donation, you can write a check to their if you go on their um cumber cupboard of kindness uh site, there's a PO box in Norton where you can write a check and donate as well as donate
through uh PayPal as well. >> Sure. >> So, and um they get a lot of their food that they purchase with the donations from the Greater Boston Food Bank as well. So, a lot of food comes through those donations. >> Mr. Go, do you think we could put a Do we have a box out front? Do you think we
could put a box out there? >> I could put one out there tomorrow >> at the town hall. I believe the library also. >> There isn't a box out there where we'll get one. >> I was going to say, I know this collection box is the library and the post office at least. >> Post office. Definitely. Yeah. >> Yeah, there could be others, but at least those two locations I'm aware of.
>> And there are um organizations um in town that are collecting food constantly. I know the congregational church does a a monthly uh food donations that they donate. So, um there are resources available if people need them or if you're looking to make a
donation. >> Yeah. >> And St. Mary's. Yeah. St. S. Vincent Depal Society at St. Mary's Church as well. Yeah. >> Outlooks Salona as well. Yeah. Beth put together Beth put together Beth Rossy put
together a whole sheet of food sources for and it's sitting right on the desk when you go in. >> You didn't have to ask anybody. Just go in and pick it up >> cuz it's it's humiliating for a lot of people. They don't want to admit that they're in that situation even though it's out of their control. You know, I
can understand that. You can come in and just kind of grab one of those and head out the door >> at the senior center. >> Yes, at the senior center. >> Is that available electronically, too? Not everyone has >> uh ability to get there during the opening hours. Number one, and
>> I have it right here. I can post it on the the town's website and social media. >> There you go. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> There you go. Thank you. >> Perfect. >> Thank you. in the uh Trinitarian Church across the street here from the town hall, the corner of Pine and East Maine.
They every third Tuesday they have dinner there also at 5:00 p.m. Yeah. >> 5:00 p.m. Everyone's welcome, by the way. Anyone who wants to go is I've gone a couple times. >> And you know, this the food is very good. Um everyone's uh no questions
asked. I don't care who you are, where you came from. Uh and they they do a very nice job. Good. Okay. Thank you. So, next up are the warrants. Um I'm hope everyone has seen them as part of the agenda packet
now and on the town website as part of the agenda packet. Um they have been approved already. Correct. Sir, >> do you want to >> Yes, sir. >> We're going to make a motion for each
one and vote. Do we want to do that? >> For the record, it's not necessary, but if if the board's so inclined, >> if the board wants to >> otherwise, >> hey, Bob, if you want to make a motion. >> Okay. Just like the old days, I make a motion that we approve uh invoice
warrant AP26-18 dated October 30th, 2025. >> Second. All in favor? >> I I >> make a motion we pay the we Yeah. Make a motion to payroll warrant PR26-09
for the week ending October 25th, 2025 warrant dated October 30th, 2025. >> Second >> motion in a second. All in favor? >> I >> I >> motion to approve invoice warrant AP26-9 dated November 6, 2025.
>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Thank you. >> Okay. Next meeting agenda, November 20th, we have 2026 license renewals. Oh boy. >> Boy. >> Oh boy.
>> Make sure you uh >> uh No, exact your friends. >> Yeah. Um so I just wanted to mention uh we had a a really good um permanent building committee meeting last week. Bob and I did and thank you uh Mark and
Jenna whoever got gathered the the the troops and it was a fully um packed full attendance uh meeting with um representatives from the the finance committee, the school committee and also the entire school administration was there to talk about the middle school roof. Uh and um and then the uh fire
chief and uh one of the assistants um was there to talk about their project at the fire uh station. And it was it was a very fruitful meeting. It was about a three-hour meeting. Mark was there. We had a very long discussion about both projects. And at this point, just to give everybody the kind of the punch line at
the end, the middle school roof, um, they they have an inland project manager and a designer or or an architect. And they're they don't choose them. They're provided by the MSBA. So, they're already selected. They both know each
other. There's no requirement for us to confirm their appointments. They've already done a little bit of work. So, we have asked that both of them attend the next uh permanent building committee meeting and present to us to kind of get us caught up to speed with what they've done so far.
The um middle school roof uh has uh patches, holes, uh water issues right now. So, we discussed the school department is going to continue to patch and fix and uh repair the best that they can uh to get us through the winter,
actually the next two winters. We had discussed a timeline to get the um the roof uh approved through the town meeting with the assumption that it'll require uh a debt exclusion override. That was pretty much the consensus. I think it is here as well. Um so with
that timeline, we want to make sure we select um a good um you know good uh project manager, good uh uh uh subs. So to rush this to try to get it done by next summer, everyone agreed was uh
unrealistic. It has to be done during the summertime. It's a massive roof project. It can't be done while school's in session. So the consensus was that the project would actually happen in 2027 during the summer. So really where we are now is uh
short-term uh repair work through the school department's um emergency uh repair budget, whatever that is between 15 and $50,000. Have to has to be under $50,000. So they're going to patch it up, try to get it to last the next year and a half without major issues and then
go through the approval process. Um probably ask for approval at this Mtown meeting for a general override and that's up to us. We'll have to get into that discussion later with the intent that um there'll be plenty of lead time
to select a good uh project manager and subs to do the project the following summer. So, we want to make sure we don't rush it and get end up with poor quality workmanship because that's all that's left in the marketplace, right? So, that's well that was one thing. As
far as the fire station, um if you remember when for the um October town meeting, their request through the capital improvement budget was for $900,000. We only approved $300,000. We had a discussion about the amount that it would take to to complete
the entire scope of the project at the fire station. And um we don't know how that scope evolved. uh we've asked uh for that information but nonetheless if you remember it was 1.4 million to do the complete scope all at once. It was
3.2 million to do it peacemail in phases. So we talked a lot about that and everyone decided that we can't spend whatever the difference is $2 and a half $3 million $2 million more for the same
work because we can't do it all at once. So the decision was made for them to um in the design work which hasn't been done for the complete project yet which would show the whole building committee and everybody else what the full scope of work would be um that uh they're going to go forward with that. It's
about a 10% of the overall project cost is for design work. So they're going to go forward with the full-blown uh design work so they have it done. They can review it with everybody and they can go to the Maytown meeting asking for any incremental money if it's available. We'll see what the budget looks like in
order to fund the whole project so it can be done all at once and not peace meal. So basically the 600,000 that we couldn't come up with this past October um it probably will be a little less than that. But that will be what the ask will be for May. If it's approved in
May, then the intent is to get the project done in a shorter time period, not peacemail, keep it under the $1.4 $4 million and then uh and and then kind of go forward with that. So that's where we left it. Then we had a long discussion
about the um protocol on when to engage the permanent building committee. Um and we kind of decided that it has to go through the town manager on when the permanent building committee should be engaged with any project. Of course, there are tiers um in spending. Anything
over 10,000 we know has to go to the capital improvement committee. Anything more than 25,000 should come before the per building committee per our bylaw. But we don't know if that just means a simple approval and no involvement. You know, come before us. Yes, we bless you. Go back and do it. Anything more than a
million and a half requires an OPM and owners project manager, which certainly would require the permanent building committee's involvement. So, we talked a lot about that. The the fire department was unsure, you know, going forward. We clear things up a lot
on on the process on when and they they know and you know they know and I know the town manager uh is knows when how it should work going forward with any project in town. So I don't know Bob if you want to add anything or Mark if you want anything yourself. I just add that
the next meeting is November 25th, 6 o'clock at the winter account room if anyone wants to attend. And the process for doing the um that exclusion override would be to probably have a vote in the April election and then go to this May town
meeting for the second P. You have to do both. You have to have an election and and a town meeting vote. So rather than call for a special either way, you know, we'll try to incorporate those in the in the uh what we already have coming so we don't have
to spend the extra money, but we'll have to go through the process. We're getting a 55% >> yes, >> reimbursement on the school roof, but we still don't know what that how much that is. We've we've heard 9.9 million, but that could come down uh based on some of
the information we're getting now. And that's where the permanent building committee comes into it. We start looking at what their proposal is and what we're not talking about taking any shortcuts, but sometimes there are better ways, better options, you know, to get the job
done. So, but yeah, we're we're working on it, >> right? And so, permanent building committee declined its opportunity, which is within their purview, their rights to hear more about the fire renovation. And so I'm getting with Chief Simmons and we're discussing the
scope, maybe some value engineering um as Mr. O'Neal said and um the other thing and but they did exercise their ability to hear about the school roof and and everyone understands that that permanent building committee
will help with that process to monitor costs as we batten the hatches for winter. Um, and just one other thing while I have the microphone. We had a couple successful bike path uh meetings both here and in Man Mansfield. Um, many
members of the public showed up. There was consensus to keep the path safe and available for whoever wants to use them. Um, so no changes are being proposed at this time. >> Great.
Thank you. Anybody else, >> Mr. here. >> Yes, sir. >> Make a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Good night, everyone. Thank you. >> Thank you.