All right, good evening everybody. It is Thursday, October 23rd, uh 6 pm select board meeting. Uh with us tonight is Kevin, Denise, Bob, Roger, and myself. Please join me in the pledge of allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay.
So, we'll start with appointments, resignations, retirements. We have a retirement of Eddie Burgess from the Norton Fire Department. Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a notification that firefighter Burgess has submitted notice of retirement after
40 plus years of service to the town. His last day is Monday, November 3rd. The fire department invites anyone that would like to stop by fire headquarters on Monday, November 3rd, uh, from 11 to 1. There will be light refreshments.
We're actually planning to give him a citation at the November 20th select board meeting. Um because fire chief is has a couple new appointments that day as well. >> Perfect. Okay. So on the 3rd, what time is it at the fire department?
>> Um 11 to 1. >> 11 to one. Thank you, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. >> I I would just add to that, you know, the Burgess family's been involved a long time, but Edward's been there a very very long time. longer than I've been around. So, it would be u only a proper thing to do and make sure he
comes in and we recognize his years of service. >> Noted. Thank you, sir. So, minutes. Everybody look at the minutes. >> Questions? Yes, sir. >> Make a motion we accept the minutes of
September 23rd, 2025 as written. >> Second. Motion and a second. Uh Kevin. Yes. >> Denise. >> Yes. >> Bob. >> Yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> And I myself am. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> No licenses and permits. >> We have one more, Mr. Chairman. >> One more minute. >> We have one um one more. The um make a motion we accept the minutes of October 9th, 2025 as written. >> Second. >> Motion in a second. Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes.
>> Rob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. Okay. >> And I am a yes. >> Thank you. No licenses and permits. Uh announcements, Mr. Clerk. We have the
uh 32nd annual Halloween parade. Rain of Shine starts on the Sunday at 12:00 noon. Uh the parade starts at the Edible line and proceeds along Route 123 to Power Street uh where just where St. Mary's and the North School are. So
again, that's this coming Sunday, October 26th, uh from 12:00 noon to usually it's about 1:30 by the time we're done, but we'd love to have you come by. Another reminder is the Norton Veterans Council wishes accordingly invite you to an invitation to
participate in our historic Veterans Day parade. This year's parade marshall is Norton High School teacher Eric Pace. The parade will be held on th on Tuesday, November 11th, 2025. In the event of mcclimate weather, the ceremonies will be held inside the Henry
Aal gymnasium. The participations in the par participants in the parade, including the VFW Post Air For assemble at the Norton High School parking lot, 66 West Main Street at 9:30
a.m. and stop off at 10:00 a.m. All military personnel are welcome to march or ride on the Veterans Day float. The parade will proceed out of Norton High School bus access road which is across from Freeman Street. Continue east on Main Street to the stone monument at the
corner of Pine and East Main Street for a brief ceremony. Upon completion, the compress procession procession will reform and proceed west to the town common for a continued veterans day ceremonies. Upon completion of all events formation
will reform and return to the Henry Ael school to disband. Repressments will be available in the school cafeteria. And one more uh there's going to be a joint ebike community forum
and Mansfield rail trail. It's going to be held uh Thursday, next Thursday, October 30th from 6 pm here in the crane room at the Norton Town Hall if anyone would like to come by. And that's what I have, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> I have uh one announcement I'd like to
make. >> Sure. >> Um so, tomorrow and Saturday, the uh Norton VFW Post 8049 will be putting on their annual Halloween spooktacular. It's runs from 6:00 to 10:00 p.m. There
is a haunted house, a haunted hayride. Food is available. Um, tickets can be purchased in advance or they can be purchased at onsite. Uh, parking will be at the Yell School and there will be a shuttle running from the Yell School to
the VFW and back constantly all night so that you can get back and forth. Um, if anybody would like to come, we'd love to see you show up. And if anybody is interested or know students or anyone who would like to volunteer, volunteers are always needed and they can contact
the VFW for more information. Thank you, sir. On to business, new business. Um, Mr. Town Manager, would you like to speak to the basis open meeting law complaints?
>> Yes, very briefly. Uh we have reviewed an open law complaint from Joseph Kaggliano. It's in your packets. Uh we have found no merit to this complaint. Legal council reviewed this complaint.
Also found no no merit at all to it. Uh the select board may at its discretion discuss and may vote to authorize our attorney to send the response letter as provided in the packet, which I would recommend the board do.
Okay. Any dis discussion, questions, Mr. Chair? >> Yes, sir. >> I uh like to make a motion that we uh uh send a letter um
what's it called again there, Mark? >> The response letter. >> Response letter. >> Yeah. >> To uh Joseph Klaniano about the open meeting law violation. Second. Motion in a second. Kevin,
>> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger, >> yes. >> And I am a yes as well. Unanimous. Jen, >> could I get a motion for the second one from Mrs. Gallagher?
>> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. I uh make the same motion that we send a letter to uh Kelly Gallagher um in response to the open meeting law violation. >> Second >> motion and a second. Kevin, >> yes.
>> Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> And I am a yes. Thank you. Next up, item three, set date for annual town election. Would you like to speak to it, Joe? Come
on down. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening, Jill Sappa, town clerk. Um, so after reviewing feedback from last year's election where we um
received feedback that having the election during at the end of school vacation week, some residents suggested that maybe we move the election. Um, and looking at the April calendar, that
first weekend is Easter weekend. and the third and fourth weekends would be around school vacation. So, um if it pleases the select board and the town manager, I'm recommending April 11th.
Um, last year I came before you to request a limit on the hours and you asked for data regarding what the hourly um influx was and so you have that on
page two. I am suggesting a limit of reducing the hours by 1 hour. So having the election from 8 to 4 versus 8 to 5 and um last year I came before you to do an
opt out of mailin but I'm not requesting that this year. >> Okay. Thank you Jill. Any questions from the board? >> Chairman. >> Yes sir. >> Early voting anything I know I know you can you can uh absentee vote now right
and just about anyone can do that. >> Yes. Yep. There's no early voting for local elections, but we would like to keep I would like to keep mail-in voting in place for the local annual election this year. So absentee is an option as
well as mailin. >> So in the past, absentee ballots were not allowed unless you were you almost have to justify why you wouldn't be in town to do it. But under today's rules, it's my understanding that you can uh come in and request an absentee ballot way in advance prior to the the meeting.
I'm not sure how much in advance, but >> yep, there's three reasons under Mass General law that you can qualify for an absentee vote. You can fill out for mailin and absentee now. And that request is good for one year. So any
elections that happen or if there's any special elections, anything like that, voters would be automatically sent a ballot because that request would be good for one year. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Okay. Any others >> through through your chair? Yep.
>> Uh two things. One is can we send out like uh one of those alerts? Doesn't have to be right now. when it gets closer to let people know about the options for voting so they know all the available options to get absentee mail and ballots etc. Um to make sure that
they're well aware of that and then the second I guess comment would be my personal preference and I apologize would be just to keep it till five. >> I mean I think 55 people is not insignificant. >> Um and so I I'm all in favor of more is
better. Mhm. >> So that's just my personal um thoughts on that. >> Um so in response to your question, I have been working with the tax collector treasurer to send out notices with the tax bill that's going out in December
for a notification of the election. And then I'm also a change in this year's protocol for the census. I'm currently getting a quote to add um an announcement with the definitions of early um not early mail-in voting and
absentee voting to be included in the census that's set out. So, this is helpful that we're doing this a little bit earlier so we have the location, date, time, all set so I can get that printed and sent out to the community so they'll have two reminders about the
election. Hopefully making it more accessible. Perfect. Thank you. Yep. >> And how about the the Norton alerts? I think that's what Denise you're referring to that the the text alert or email alerts. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um you know, is that something that can be done to notify people as well?
>> Mhm. Yeah, we can work on that. We didn't do that last year, but we can work on that. >> Who who controls those? >> Um >> not to put you on the spot, >> it's the it with >> I think Ray does does it. >> Okay. We'll we'll look into that.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Are you talking about Sorry, just for clarification. Are you talking about on the website or >> the real call? >> Yeah. >> Phone calls, emails. They they send out messages various various ways.
>> We got two or three of them today about something. >> Yeah. >> Did you get one? >> Don't ask me what they were for. I signed up on the >> I already forgot. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I think it goes through through the website and through it, but I think the clerk's office also has
access to that cuz I think I sent the ones that you got >> without knowing exactly what they are. I can't verify. >> We get them from the board of health as well. You know, when it, you know, the E and water department, >> it's the I think it's the eubscriber
list on the website. So, that can get sent out. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Who whoever does it? I I don't know. Um, oh yeah, go ahead. Uh, Joe, just a quick question. Um, what was the reasoning that you thought that 4:00 would be better than five because we had
5% of the voters came in between four and five. >> Well, I I'm not looking to negate those voters. Every single vote counts and that's important. My mission is to have a higher voter turnout. So, I'm not looking to limit the voter turnout. My
thought in limiting the hours by one hour one is that if it was posted and advertised that it ended by four o'clock that those 55 voters would find a way to get here between those hours. It's not necess it's not necessarily definite
that those 55 voters only came here because that was the only time they could come here. Um and it helps with our staffing resources, our police detail. It tends to be um you know we have a lot of people working that day
working to keep the building open, traffic control, and we would also get the election results um which people are often waiting in the lobby for a little bit sooner if we ended them an hour much anticipated results.
We would be able to, you know, finish up the counts and offer an unofficial result a little bit sooner. It was um it a a top of- mind topic. I I was asked
uh several times about it from the pole workers. It's a long day for them and they're doing it for nothing. Uh volunteering um and um so I understand you know your
ask. I would hope that, you know, those 55 or so would be able to get there sooner. I mean, with mailin, um, you know, it's definitely an option if for some reason they can and they know ahead of time with these alerts and notifications, you know, that that we
get, you know, this is election day and this is, you know, the times. Um, that's it was something that I heard uh more than once or, you know, recently after the election. So, I understand your ask on that.
>> Yeah, I'm not looking to um exclude anyone. I'd like to see a higher turnout. I'd like to see the election more available to residents. So, it's not that it's that there's a lot of work that happens afterwards to get the
results in terms of um counting writeins and things like that. So, >> Mr. Chairman, >> yes, sir. And again, I would stress when you sent out your mail, it wasn't stuffable. One complaint I heard the last time was the people worked 9 to5,
you know, being able to get in in time to vote. And I I was instructing all of them that the absentee ballot was available because they, you know, most people some people work Saturdays, you know, a lot of people work Saturdays and they don't always are not always
able to get here. But if we can stress to the uh people through your mailings that those absentee uh ballots are available, that might be helpful to to get more people involved. >> Yeah. And we did have quite a few people at the door when we opened the polls
this year who were trying to vote before they left for work. >> Right. I would also just be conscious that that is uh uh spring soccer, sometimes baseball, whatever season. So the sports are starting to ramp up. So, we're often battling the soccer fields
in the back as well. >> Well, this year it's going to be here, right? >> I did propose that as the location to do here. Um, that seemed to work really well last year and the community seemed to really appreciate to be able to use the building. The traffic did such a
traffic control did a great job and the parking lot wasn't fully open last year. So, this year we would enjoy having this side parking fully open. So, that would be great. Perfect. Yeah, great. I think it worked extremely well >> last election, >> Mr. Chair.
>> Yes, sir. >> Um Joe, I didn't want you to think that I am uh looking to go against your recommendation. I just wanted to give you the opportunity to let people know why we you were suggesting it move to 4:00 instead of 5:00 as a finishing time.
>> You all make the the best decisions for the residents. So, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. >> Um Mr. Mr. Chair, I'm sorry about make a motion. Just one last comment, Jill. It's not on the calendar and it's kind of a little bit outside of your um proposal. Um when people take out
papers, nomination papers, and they get their signatures and they turn them in, I know that it's it it's extra resources for you to certify those nomination papers. Takes time. Check all of the signatures and the addresses and that
kind of thing. And I know you did this this past year. Um, but the earlier when people turn them in early, if they have their signatures and they turn them in early, and I know you don't always have the staffing to um, validate them prior to
the in this case it will be February 20th uh, deadline, but whenever you can do it earlier, the better because what happens is, and it was in my case in particular, I had a lot of, um, signatures that were not valid for whatever reason. um they
couldn't read them or whatever the case is. I I made it by one um person. I got on the the ballot with one I think I had 51. >> So, and you were able to certify those early enough where if I had 49, I could go back and get that last one somehow,
right? And still be on the ballot. So, I just wanted to mention that if there's anything you can do to to try to gather your resources early so when people submit their papers well be before the deadline at least they can get their results before the deadline. >> That makes sense. >> Absolutely. I don't anticipate any Well,
we didn't have any delays last year, but I don't anticipate a problem with that last year. I was the only full-time staff member and now I have an assistant. Perfect. I think she came on board and I was training her while also verifying signatures. So, um I think
that that will go even smoother this year. >> Thank you. >> And you did a good job this past year, by the way. >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. Make a motion we have our annual local town election rescheduled for Saturday, April 11th, 2026 here at
Neworton Town Hall, 72 East Main Street with polling hours from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. >> Second motion and a second. Kelly, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger, >> yes.
>> And I am a yes as well. Thank you, Joe. >> Thank you for your time. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. Okay. So, next item is planning board vacancy candidate, Mr. Jim Shabet. Uh, Mr.
Shabet has expressed interest, Mr. Town Manager. Yes, we received a a letter of expressing interest from Jim Shabet to be a member appointed a member of the planning board. I understand that's would be a joint uh appointment between select
board and planning board. Happy to look into when you like that scheduled if that's something the board is looking to advance. >> Mr. Chairman, can't see when. >> Yeah, that yes, I would support that, but I just want to make clear that the
person that's being uh appointed would only serve until April 4th now until the next election just to serve out the remainder remain in this year's term. >> Yep. Yep. Okay. So, yes, Mr. town manager if you could reach out to the
planning board chair and set that up if they can maybe join us the next meeting or or or whatever whatever works whatever works with the planning board chair please >> no problem Mr. Chair, if I may ask uh
the two that are here, do you folks have any special permits that are right around the corner, applications, we would want Jim on the planning board earlier rather than later so they he can participate and listen in on I guess they they couldn't things that have not
started yet, but you expect coming up soon. >> We have stuff coming. >> Yeah. There's nothing particular. There's not like something heavy. >> And I believe there is a an allowance where if a member misses one meeting,
they can watch it um the recording and still participate in the special permit >> voting. Okay. >> Yes. >> Whatever. >> Okay. >> For us. >> Great. So, if that happens, if by chance he's not on the planning board yet,
either ask him to join in from the audience or watch the replay. >> Yeah, perfect. Thank you. >> All set. >> Okay, next item. Retirees Health Insurance Etna to Bluec Cross/Medics
Transition. >> Take it away for this. >> Good evening. I'm Jennifer Stroker from Payroll and Benefits. Uh we have an upcoming change for our Medicare eligible retirees for January 1st. Um we currently have 409 retirees on our
health insurance plan and this change is going to affect 324 of them. Um we are part of the Southern Mass Health Group with 10 other towns and that group decides together uh what options will be provided to our active
and retirees. Um, so just to backtrack a little bit to give you a a recap of how we've got to where we are today. Back in 2023, the Health Group board was provided
information to make a change to a Medicare Advantage plan versus the existing Medicare supplemental plan. They looked at two different plans. And in October of 2023, the board voted to
switch all of our retirees from Medex Blue Cross, the supplemental plan to the Etna Advantage Medicare plan. Um, so everybody was moved in January of 2024.
There was about,00 people combined from all of the towns. Um, the majority of the people were happy with Etna. uh there was a significant number who were not. Um so that led to the board bringing
back the the discussion to bring back Medex throughout the year of 2024. Um in August they decided to bring back medics for a January 1st start. So all of the retirees in the health group got to
choose between the ETNA or the medics. We had about 65 people here in Norton move back to the medex, still leaving over 300 people on the Etna plan. When that happened, that allowed Etna the opportunity to rerate the 2005
premium and they did that after the deadline um of the open enrollment for Medicare supplemental plans. So, they came back to the health group in December of 2024 and said they wanted to increase the
rate um because they missed that deadline. Gallagher, who administers our health insurance group, was able to block that at least for the 6 months, first 6 months of 2025.
Etna did come back and say that July 1st they were raising the rate from 3.4419 4419 per month to $44419 per month. What the Southern Health Mass Southern Mass Health Group did was
they used funds from the trust and paid the increase in the rate for all of the towns for the members enrolled in Etna for July 1st, 2025 through December
31st, 2025. Then this summer they came back with their new rate for 2026 raising it from the 4.49 up to well they had came back with two plans. The first if we kept the plan
exactly how it is the existing Etna plan it was going to raise to 729. >> Wow. >> A month. They came in with a lower option of that that would include a different prescription drug provider which would be 67076 a month. >> Wow. This would change the monthly
premium for those retirees here in Norton from $86 a month to $1 and believe $67 which led the Gallagher to bring in quotes from other companies. Uh the Blue
Cross Medics, which we did bring back in 2025, came in with an increase originally a little bit higher than what's on in your packets. Um they came in with two options of whether we wanted to be self-insured or fully insured. And
then they also accepted a quote from United American plan that was would have the Etna drug option. And then they also accepted bids from
Mass General Bighgam Health, Harvard Pilgrim, Humanana that didn't quite meet the expectations or the same offerings as our existing plans. Um, so they weren't included in the options that were provided to the
board to compare. So in September the board was given five options. The existing Etna Medicare Advantage plan at 72969 per month. The Etna Medicare Advantage with a different
prescription for $6776. And then two options for the same exact Medicare I mean Medex from Bluec Cross plan that we have now but with the difference between whether we wanted to go in fully insured or self-insured and that would have been 529.96 or 54069 per
month and then the United American Health Plan. Gallagher Insurance recommended that the Southern Mass Health Group did not renew with Etna due to the significant increase in the premium that would be a hardship to both the all of the towns as
well as all of the 1100 retirees on the plan as well as concerns with the financial struggles for the Etna company with their parent company of CVS Health. Gallagher recommended that the Southern
Mouse Health Group move to option three, which would have been the Blue Cross Blue Shield Medics with the self-insured option, leaving open the opportunity um for potential savings of the group if the claims experience went well.
There are two um three new towns in the Southern Mass Health Group as of July 1st. So there was some concern from the new three towns um because this was kind of a very quick presentation by the by Gallader to the
health group uh about not wanting to go in as self-insured and to with the $10 a month difference just to go with the fully insured option. So on September 25th, the Southern Mass
Health Group board voted unanimous unanimously to go with the option four of the Blue Cross Medics with the prescription coverage uh fully insured. So what happens now is
I have already sent out a mailing to all of our retirees. Um, one about open enrollment, uh, separate mailing to the people currently enrolled in the existing Medics plan, just letting them know of their rate increase and letting them know that this is not going to affect
their plan at all. And then a separate mailing and email to all of our uh, retirees on the Etna plan just giving them a brief warning and some communication of what is to come. Um, one of the
benefits of switching to Etna back in 2024 is it came with this company called Retirey First. It is a retired retiree benefit advocate management company. So, all of our
retirees can call Retire First at any time to help with bills, claims, referrals, medication coverage questions. Uh Gallagher over the summer was able to negotiate a
contract to bring Retirey First onto the Southern Mass Health Group no matter what choice we made. So Retirey First uh today actually sent out documentation which is at the back of your packet is a sample of the letter that is going to go well first is the
letter that I sent out to the Yetna people in your packet that went out last week. The letter from Retirey First is going to go out next week with a little more detail of what's going to happen. All of those retirees are going to be electronically transferred from Etna to
Medex. They won't have to do any work on their own. And then there's I've included a timeline of kind of the back end of the process of what's going to happen. Um there is still a significant increase
for the retirees on Etna going from $86 a month to $135. Um but in moving everybody from Etna Medex Blue Cross was able to lower that their rate a little bit lower than their
initial um bid that they put in during the summer. Mr. Chairman. Uh yes. So from a personal experience uh the Etna program did not work for myself or a lot of my friends retirees
and who had were were eligible for the program. And um we spent a lot of time working with the insurance company through the uh retirey first program and we're getting nowhere with them. Uh came back to your
office and asked that we consider going back to getting rid of that entire way and a lot of us took advantage of that. The um program was was was day and night. I mean, it was they were not covering a lot of the prescriptions that most of us
already had and we were about out of pocket costs or just total denial and we're not able to get it. So, I for one am pleased to see that u I already have the blue cross program anyway, but I'm glad to see that it's um now going to be
available to everybody because it just didn't didn't work for us at all. And if we have to pay a few more dollars for it, that's okay because between the co-pays and the out of pocket expenses, it was a total loss. So, at least we I
think we're better off to pay a bit more in premiums and get more out of our buck than what that was offering. So, I'm glad the u the group uh took a look at it and came back with a with a solution. So, thank you for that.
Unfortunately, we didn't throughout 2004. Um, a lot of the retirees did not reach out to us um as much as the other towns did. So, once we did announce that we were going to bring back medics as an option is when
the majority of the retirees who were not happy with Etna began to to call or come in. Um so that was unfortunate that we did not know for the majority of the beginning of 2024 um what a negative effect the change did
have on the retirees. >> Okay. With that being said, Jen, so what what is the I see that the new plan is going to be 54069 a month. Yes. >> Correct. What is the current value that the retirees are paying now each? What is
that? >> Um, so the people on the this plan, the Medex right now are paying 117 and they're going to pay 135 because the town pays 75%. >> Okay. So they're going to realize, you know, the $78
>> difference. the town. It looks like the impact for the town um for FY26 budget is going to be about 265,000. >> Yes. >> Additional. >> Yes. >> That Mr. Town manager needs to figure
out how to >> So, we were informed of this before town meetings. So, we put it on the warrant as part of the the transfers that was that was voted to to supplement that. >> Okay. from available funds.
>> Okay. So, you already have that accounted for. >> Yes, we we panicked a month ago and and solved that. >> Gotcha. >> And next year we will budget appropriately for this health insurance environment. >> I think all health insurance is in a all
insurance in general. The whole industry is a mess. >> Yes. Um, for the active employees, it was supposed to go up 16% and the Southern Mass Health Group voted to use reserves from the trust >> to lower it down to an 8% for the active
employees. So, it it is an overall issue with the health insurance premiums. >> They're going to do that next year, too. >> Let's hope. >> Uh, can't do it forever. >> Yeah. Okay. at some at some point we're going to have to bite the bullet and do it uh
pay for ourselves. The subject of health insurance is is be going to become even more prominent. When people talk about how much money we're paying town employees and you know and and the cost of everything, they what they're not looking at is the fixed cost of what's costing us for this
health insurance programs. And we're paying 75% of the budget of their premium, retiree or or uh active employees. So, at some point in the future, the town's going to have to take a look at this and say,
"We need to do something about this. It's too much money." And um it's going to have to be negotiated obviously and then and brought down a bit more than it was the last time we did it. We reduced it from 90 to 75%.
And when we did that we did bump up some of the salaries to compensate for the uh for the insurance the cost but um again it's becoming very very expensive. I don't know what the total expenditure was Mr. Tom man. Do you know what we
paid for health insurance this year? >> 9.5 million. >> Yeah. Townwide. It's a lot of money. So >> 9 9.5 >> million. >> Yes. >> So it's it's a lot of money. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Well, any other questions from any
other members of the board? >> I just have one comment. Uh Jennifer, one thing I've noticed personally is that there's a new um variable now. If you have a spouse who has their own insurance and um you have to declare that and then if you want them on your
insurance then there's a search charge. So, for example, if both spouses have their own private insurance through their own independent companies, but one of them wants to be on one or the other's plan, that plan has to pay an extra amount to be able to do that
because apparently what's happened is the the insurance costs themselves um are skewed a lot more with um with the spouse, I guess, than with the actual employer. So like if my wife was
on my plan, apparently my wife would cost more to my company than I do to be on my insurance plan. So the so the way to offset that is now they have a um a spousal search charge if both um you know spouses uh have their own option to have their own private insurance through
their own independent companies. Have they looked into anything like this at all? >> Um I'm fairly new to attending the Southern Ros Health Group meetings. Um I've been there since January. uh that has not been something they've brought up. Uh they have brought up we do offer
a high deductible plan um that most of the employees are are shying away from and that is it is a cost savings for the town if we could move more people onto the high deductible plan. Um but that is that's
where the focus at the um health group meetings has been is on trying to move more people onto the that plan away from the the standard HMO. >> Good. And I know we're talking about Medicare supplemental health insurance, but maybe if if one spouse is still working and is 60 years old and the
other one is 65 collecting Medicare. I mean, there's all these creative ways now that uh every year um companies try to find a way to uh save a little bit of money so the impact isn't as much. So, thank you. This is good information by the way. Appreciate it. >> Thank you,
>> Jen. Real quick, it seems like there's 10 entities as a whole as part of this SMHG. >> Uh I think there's 11 >> or 11 10 or 11. So, are they actively pursuing other communities, organizations? Looks like there's a couple schools here, school districts.
Are they actively pursuing trying to >> um take on >> they are more entities? >> Um they they interviewed other towns this summer. Um but those are the three they looked at the claims experiences from the the towns and the schools before
they allowed them in to make sure that you know bringing them in wouldn't >> you >> make us lose money out of our trust. So, uh, those they did bring in three new ones July 1st. Um, I don't know exactly how many people they did interview. Um,
I know Maya is the biggest um, group in Massachusetts that most towns are part of and they they had a very large increase ac across the board >> and a lot of towns did start to look at other >> to drop >> other options. Yeah.
>> Okay. Fair enough. And you're a rep that goes to these meetings for us for the town. >> I'm the backup. >> The backup. Who's the primary? >> Town manager. >> Mr. Town Manager. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I'm there. >> Fair enough. Okay. So, everybody can any
anybody that has questions, they come to the town manager. >> Okay. All right. Anything else? >> They do. They find they find the office and then they >> All right, Jen, thank you very much. appreciate all your work on it. >> Good night.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Other business topics not reasonably anticipated 48 hours in advance. Mr. Town Manager, anybody? >> No, sir. >> No. Okay.
Old business policies regarding town building use the Norton Town Hall in Senior Nelson Senior and Community Center. Um I believe >> Mark will take care of that. Okay, Mr. Thmon is going to report on that. Okay,
>> excellent. So, me, Mr. Marson, and Mr. O'Neal um discussed this at length with our senior center director. We came to the conclusion that these policies, as written before you this
evening, are solid policies. They ensure the facilities are well-maintained, accessible to the public and to the community. This is a way to get the ball rolling to start having the public come in and and use the buildings in an organized
fashion. And it's for free. So during hours when we're staffed here, both at town hall and at the senior center, priority obviously goes to the departments and boards for for meetings doing town business. But when rooms are
available on a first come, first- serve basis, um they'll be available to be scheduled and on Thursday evenings um until the closing time. What is it? 7:30 at the senior center and here um groups
for the benefit of the community will be able to schedule time at no cost. And there will only be a fee if the room is left not cleaned. if we need to clean the room, uh, we ask people to leave the room in the same condition they found
it. Um, so this is a great thing that we can do for the community. >> Okay. >> Question. Time frames again. >> Um, so it's it's normal town hall hours, I believe, 8:30 to 7:30 on Thursdays and
8:30 to 4:30 the rest of the weekdays >> except for Friday. Friday 8:30 to 12:30. >> Correct. Correct. >> Through you, chair. >> Yep. I >> I thought there was in one of the drafts that I saw maybe uh the ability to use
it after hours with someone from the town that had a key fob already letting them in and out. Is that is that no longer an option based on what you just said? >> I don't understand. Or for boards and committees, yes. But for community
groups, no. I I don't understand that that's been >> I mean surely you can understand that community groups often are groups that are meeting after regular working hours, right? So that means really the only day you're offering is Thursdays from 5 to
7:30. That's not really going to help anybody. I I mean it is a start and we can surely look at this policy as as things move on. It's just if we want to cover additional days,
I'm not necessarily comfortable having a non-employee let people in and out of the buildings for security liability reasons and employees um typically work for pay and want overtime to do it to do
that. So that would require um and and maybe that's something we look at in the future. I mean, having people pay and then the employee stays an extra two hours and they get that money in their paychecks. Um, this just gets the ball rolling. It seemed that like the
seamless way to start getting people in and using the facilities, but I understand what you're saying. >> It it's obstructive to anyone be able to to use it. Honestly, and I think I've made that point clear in a couple of occasions that we asked the town for
money with the with the caveat that these will be great spaces that the community can use for your meetings. Was said multiple times when we're asking for money for these buildings. And now we're pulling the rug out and saying only until 3:30 most of the time, 7:30
on Thursdays and that's it. I just think it's unfair and not what we intended. U Mr. Chair, one one thing that uh we had a discussion about was with um the senior and community center with Beth now that she has an assistant. Um
they're they're going to make uh an effort to be open late on Thursday nights, which right now, you know, they're not they're they're open till 3:30 every day of the week. So that's a scheduling thing. I think right now they might have every other Thursday covered. Um, but that's something that she she's
going to try to work out with her staff so that somebody starts later in the day on Thursday perhaps and works until 7:30 on Thursday. So that'll open up and correct me if I'm wrong, Mark, but that'll open up both facilities on Thursday night. So that's two conference
rooms, two rooms over there and then potentially two here uh every Thursday night. So four rooms every Thursday night. So any group, you know, they have that option. And um I know it's not what you're asking for, but yeah, it's four rooms that they don't have today at night. >> That assumes people have Thursdays
available, right? And that's not a workable night for a lot of organizations. So, yeah. >> May I make a comment? >> Sure. >> Cuz I spoke to I think I spoke to multiple Oh, Bridget Car 113 Oak Street. Um I spoke about this with I think Beth
potentially last year when it was when the hours were announced at the opening. I had mentioned, you know, most people like me like it is a community center. I just went in it for the first time last Monday and a lot of you were there and I was taking pictures of everything cuz it's really great and it's nice and it's awesome but I I work during the day um
between the hours of 9 to 3:30 so it is hard. Um, I'm glad to hear that we're extending it a little bit on Thursdays, but I would like to see some more um flexibility, maybe even a weekend during the month. Um, because I think there's a lot of great spaces in there that like
families can use as well in addition and they've done such great work there and it looks like a lot of fun, but um it is just kind of inaccessible to the general public I feel like at this time. So I like the step on Thursday nights but
more please. That's all. >> Thank you Bridget. >> Mr. Chair. So um Mr. Town Manager per perhaps the avenue to pursue going forward and I understand the philosophy on um not having volunteers open this building
up and not paying employees overtime and that kind of thing or cleaners. Um, but perhaps as time goes on, as employees look for more flexible work schedules, you know, maybe other nights can be extended till 7:30, for example, if it
works out for everybody. Like, for example, if you have an employee here in the building who says, "Listen, I, you know, I like to bring my kids to preschool on Tuesday mornings. I'd rather work 12 to 7:30 instead of 8:30 to 5:30 or 4:30, whatever the case is.
Maybe that's an option too to look at where you still have that coverage. You don't have to give out the FOBs and employee will be managing it during their regular workday and then maybe a way to open up more nights of the week if that makes sense.
It we can look into that. It was a challenge to get employees to open the senior center for four more hours on Thursdays. Uh but I mean certainly as long as we can provide counter service so people are here uh when they come to
say in you know any department the board of health that somebody's behind the counter whenever we're open. Uh but if we could stagger that to have someone come in late and stay late. >> Sure. Yeah. That's a good point. um
public facing departments will be tough, but if you have somebody who I I'm thinking James, for example, I'm not just I don't want to pick on him, but somebody like him who does all of their work themselves and they don't, you know, converse with the public, they don't need to be here during regular
business hours, you know, just just a thought in the future. So, Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. So, I'm looking at the hours of community building and I'm just curious. I mean, I know that we're limited staff over there, but now we've
added another full-time assistant to the facility. How many hours do these uh employees work, Mr. Mark? >> Are they 35 or 40 hours a week?
>> I understand the senior center employees work 40 hours a week. We have not backfilled the senior center position yet. Um, we're in a bit of a, you know, due to financial constraints.
So, the reason I'm asking is the building is open 6 and 1/2 hours a day according to this. Now, they may be in there more than that, but that's what I'm reading. If you do that times five, that's 32 and a half hours.
So, I guess my question would be why at why aren't we running that building the same way we run our town hall with the same hours? I mean, it just gives more gives people more of an opportunity to to use a building that
normally wouldn't. I know that we close here on Friday at 12:30. I'm not so sure you couldn't close the uh community building at 12:30 on a Friday, too. But I'm just curious about why we've got two 40hour persons working over there, but the building's only open
32 and 1/2 hours. Just doesn't add up, if you know what I mean. Just something to look at, that's all. >> Yeah. Yeah. I can talk to the senior center director or we can invite her here to chat with the board. >> Sounds good, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, I understand all of the concerns
that everybody has spoken about. Um, I would suggest that we accept this policy now so that we have at least some policy in place so that people can start using these buildings and if we want to make changes to it, we can do that. But as of
now, we have no policy whatsoever. Thank you. So, I'd like to make a point of note, too. I understand all the asks and uh questions and concerns. Uh I'd like to contribute u you know possibility and I don't know if Kevin
and and Roger had thought of it uh maybe they have but the um senior uh you know tax liability work program um I don't know if there's a way that we can integrate that as well in as
as as well as being greeters here at the town hall. um maybe we can integrate that program to cover some of these you know when there's to meet I don't know if there's been any even asks for some of those off hours or or you know the
other hours that aren't listed here um but when that when that arises I don't know if we can uh you know if that could be an option where uh some of the seniors that are working you know their tax liability off if if that can be uh
if that can be done you know I don't from a liability standpoint or what. But >> that that is my initial concern. I mean, I I don't want to be inflexible. If there's people banging down the door and they want to come in, um I I personally haven't had any requests since I've been
here. Um if there was, I'd be more diligently, not saying I'm not diligently, but saying I'd be more trying to find a solution. Um >> yeah, if they Yeah. If there's no ask, there's no >> through your chair >> rush. I guess
>> there hasn't been any ask because there's no policy in place yet. But I can tell you I'm fully aware that the Girl Scouts are interested, sports teams are interested in the Winter Cunn room uh the Winn group or whatever that condo association. >> They want to play sports. >> They were here last they were here last
um meeting specifically asking for Wednesday evenings being available. So, I know there have been groups that expressed interest. >> I I mean, we would have to have a not
saying they're not responsible. I just our employees are liable and we can hold them accountable if say we gave a FOB to a board member. Um, I suppose we could take it back if there was improper use.
I mean, I'd be open to looking into that as a future. I I think we should put this in place now. Um maybe see if other towns allow non-employees to manage the facility.
>> And Mr. Chair, I know I remember now, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe you had asked the gentleman from Winnottton Shores to to do do a little bit of independent research and I think he came back with the surrounding towns that he spoke with that they were pretty pretty much the same as this that they were
open to the public during the regular business hours so that they could use the rooms just basically like our policies reading but after business hours they were not like Rainom think that was the case there and maybe Easton or whatever but I I t we talked about
this at a couple meetings ago and I think we everyone nodded their heads that let's go with a policy like this for a year not knowing what the demand is going to be for the conference rooms in the future and then re-evaluating it
you know um then the things may shake out over time like um like you know for example we talked about the schools um use of facility policy And there should not be any charge if the custodian is not impacted.
I think some of the sports groups didn't don't realize that probably you know so when they realize that and they they they find that there are other school facilities that can have their meetings in free of charge as well maybe some of the demand will will uh subside
>> through you chair. Again I've worked with some of the school sports um organizations and they have been charged janitorial fees. they have >> even when they weren't >> and that's not that's not our issue. I think they need to go back to the policy that the school department has and
>> I am telling you >> take ex exception to it because that's not according to the business manager they should not be charged. >> They have been so so two other points that I wanted to make and I appreciate the comparison to other town communities but that doesn't dismiss the fact that we explicitly stated when we're asking
for exclusion that this would be useful for the town communities to have their meetings in. And that second point was on the town hall one. I noticed that the only evening that's open later was Thursday evenings at 7:30. Do we not have like planning board meetings and
other meetings here other than evenings that we can't have them open those evenings as well? >> You mean so if we're open in one room, have the other room open? >> Why not? I I don't have an issue with that. As
long as, you know, the the board locks up after their meeting, if if the other meetings going on, someone's going to have to stay and have responsibility to lock up. I I I I'm not trying to be a downer. I just
don't want to come in here and see the place graffitied on on my watch. >> I understand. But I I hope you can understand that this policy as it's written is not going to be useful for anybody that actually needs to use it. >> I mean, one day a week is is better than none.
>> Okay. >> For now. >> Well, the reason why we have um subcommittees of less than a quorum is so that we can come back and three people can vote against Roger and I if they choose to. So that's why we take these things to a vote. Um, and I will
say though on the policy, I noticed a um a grammatical question. Actually, I'm not I was very bad at English, but the second paragraph in accordance with the town charter, the town manager, and then there's another comma. Um, I don't think that second comma should be there
because it's implying that the town charter is going to have full jurisdiction and I think it's meant to read the town manager is going to have full has full jurisdiction. Maybe strike that comma. Why are you smiling? Okay, we'll make that. That must have been a scrivener's error. >> No. Am I right? I don't I'm not a good
Not good at English. Think you're right. >> Yeah. Extra comma. >> I think you're right, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah, I agree with it. I We need to have a policy in place. I don't entirely agree with the policy, but I I'm 99% in favor of what we're trying to do. And
and as has been said, it may not be a year from now. Maybe 6 months from now we have to take a objective look at other ways to get these buildings opened up and I'm not sure we can do that financially but I think we have to look at it. So I'm okay with with getting the
ball rolling here but I I think we all can agree that this is not the final document that we'll probably end up having in the next year by by the end of next year. I agree it can be fluid you know based on demand and whatnot. This this this
covers the liability aspect. So now anybody that does ask it, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Town Manager, anybody that does ask, you can tell them what's available, what times for the time being. If they can't manage that and they request something different, then you can um you know, inform the board
and we can take up other options. if you don't think of an option yourself with some of the some of the things that we've mentioned for possible options. You know, I agree with Denise. These are town uh properties paid for by the
taxpayer and they should be available. Um but I think within within reason based on you know that that today's world is the liability world and we got to have somebody there obviously I think everybody understands that. So I think
if you were able to um you know manage it and let us know if it becomes a problem if someone you know one one commission board whatever needs it a a certain night and it has to be then it maybe you can shuffle around some of the
some of the staff. Um >> I believe the boards and commissions can have it any night of the week. >> No. So like >> you're not going to see any demand because you you put on a policy that says it's only available till 3:30. So no one's going to ask for it if they know they want it at 6.
>> We can't put it in we can't put 24/7. >> But what I'm saying is you're not going to see demand because there's there's no need to to ask a question at the policy. >> I disagree. People will ask if that's if their normal meeting night is Wednesday. You're saying it yourself when a county commission meets on Wednesday nights. They're going to ask for Wednesday night. >> They already here asking for it.
>> Well, that's what I mean. So of course they're going to ask for Wednesday night. Even if it even if it does say that any chance >> they may they may opt over as time goes on to hold their meetings on Thursday nights in the winter room and they're good. >> I think they actually said they couldn't do other nights that Wednesday was the night that they met.
>> Yeah, I I can't speak for them, but Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> I make a motion that we accept the uh town building use policy as written. >> Mr. Town Hall, >> the town building use policy. >> All right. Second. It's just to clarify,
there's two policies, right? So, the town hall and the senior community center. >> Second. >> Okay. Motion in a second. Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> no. >> Bob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> And I am a yes.
Okay. Thank you. Next item. Town manager report. Thank you. Um, just favorably report back on town meeting. 18 of 19 or 17 of 18 articles were favorably approved. All
articles save one. Uh, we're moving forward on having it um assistance to come with with the crane room with continuity of IT services. We're
um moving forward on filling the gap. Um we are moving forward on infrastructure projects. The fire department's roof is starting soon. The highway department had uh there were a handful of contractors out there. It was look at the roof day and they'll get their bids
in shortly. And um in addition to all the events that clerk Kimble already informed us about. Thank you. >> That's it. >> That's it. >> Thank you, sir. Okay. Select boards report in mail. We
don't have any. >> Nope. >> Okay. So, what? >> Sorry. >> Yep. Go ahead, Denise. >> One thing. Uh, just in a serpent meeting yesterday, there was some conversation about a new um Massachusetts regulation coming out for solar um bylaws. Um and
it was would require the towns to I think um have it in their um bylaws by July. Uh which we know obviously is a challenge, right? >> We tried. We really did. >> Correct. And so I did ask the question what the penalty would be if despite
best efforts we couldn't update our bylaws and they said as of now there are no penalties they're aware of. It just obviously will leave us open to litigation >> if if someone uh >> if someone wants to challenge it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly.
>> Okay. Thank you, Denise. So, warrants, I believe they're already approved, but I'd like to make note that warrants now are going to be able to be viewed um full list of warrants, full payables, all the payable warrants, uh
as part of the agenda packet. and also that agenda packet uh you know that's posted to the town website as well um for full transparency of all expenses that thank you.
>> So um with that being said, Mr. Town Manager, do you have any followup to that? >> Yes. Um thank you. Just just to add, this is a change in practice and this is the most transparent um I've ever seen uh a town put the warrants publicly
available. I haven't really seen that anywhere, but it's there's no reason not to. It's a public document. Um I myself have had questions and I've had to go into the the records and and make sure everything is is clear. So, we're I
think it's a great thing. It's Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. Um, I would just like to make note and uh thank Mr. Kimell for um he is uh when he first uh got reelected to the board, he made note of uh how we
used to how the town used to look at warrants and how they used to uh be able to see more um of where the money is going. And um I would just like to thank him for his diligence in uh seeing this through.
Thank you. But I would add to that that this is far more transparent than we ever used to be. So, thank you, Mr. Gold, for making this additional information available publicly. We're all able to look at these documents ourselves and sign off. But with this
new new procedure, it's uh open to the public, much more open to the public, and I think that's a great thing. So, thank you for doing that. >> All right. any any resident can perform their own audit from the comfort of their living room. Click on the direct
questions. >> Who's taking the questions? Because there's going to be a lot of questions. So, >> who's going to do that? I >> Okay. So, the uh warrants are all all approved. Next meeting agenda November
6, 2025. >> Mr. share. One thing the so we have the permanent building committee meeting next Wednesday I believe and we have um uh an applicant to be um appointed um and uh it has to be done through a joint
meeting with us and the school committee. So I just wanted to make sure that we don't overlook that because we I suspect that with a middle school roof being uh delayed this doesn't give us just gives us a little bit more time. I don't know how long they got an extension with the MSBA or if they even
got an extension yet, but I want to make sure that that uh that we fill that permanent building committee with all with five active members. So, I would just ask if we can have that joint meeting with the school committee, you know, sooner rather than later so we can get that fifth uh seat filled.
>> I mean, does is two weeks from today. Is does that >> Well, we're not going to make it our meeting is next Wednesday, I think the >> 29th. So, we're not going to do it before then, but >> then a month after that, but um I don't
want to wait too long. >> I I agree. I I know I ser on the same same board myself, but very important that we get enough people in place. The school building project is is a has to be our number one priority. And I totally agree. It has to get done, but we've got to make sure we expedite it in
every way we can, including having a full board to review it and and go through it. So, um, the sooner we get a full board in place, this board, the select board, may want to even add an additional person to represent them.
Even though there are two members of us on there now, we weren't members of the select board when when we were appointed. We are now. So, you've got two members of the select board on there, but that doesn't mean that you can't ask for a third person to be appointed as a as a representative of
the board if you if you so desire. you think if you can think of someone who has the kind of background that would uh help u support and direct the building committee that would be helpful to us. I think the bylaw allows for like subject
matter experts depending on the project and we should have an active um liaison from the school committee the school committee right >> um attending all the meetings Mark so if you could talk to Jen um there should be for this middle school actually we should always have a fincom leazison on
a school community lison but we haven't had that in many for a long time >> we haven't had a selectman's representative either >> that's right >> rep is not because this is a middle school project, we they should definitely have an active school committee member attending all of the
meetings as a um and they'll have voting uh ability on on the roof project cuz it's under their jurisdiction, right? >> But we can also have any other member from the community who happens to have expertise in whatever project we're working on. So if we have anybody that
is a roofer, um they can attend our meetings and be a consultant. They don't have voting cap capacity, but they can certainly um help us along. So, >> um so there is a Laura Gustafson from
the the school committees representative to the permanent building committee. It looks like I I did request the list. I I just um need to review it and make sure the appointments have been falling off each year and being put added on each year because they're supposed to be
staggered for X years. Okay, good. Yeah, Larara Lara Augustus just got appointed to the school committee this past April. As long as they have somebody to report back to the school committee and kind of be the uh integrator so >> we don't have to meet all the time with boards, they have one representative who
can report back to their to their school committee and then um but also knowledge. We need knowledge because people that have the experience, especially with a roofing project, I I'm familiar with working with the MSBA with
a high school project, but um you know, we have right now we don't really have the makeup that we need. Ideally, you know, we fill the the building committee with the best that we can. Um, whenever possible, we should
have an architect. We should have a construction person. We should have um an engineer. We should have an attorney. We we don't have any of those right now. So, this new member is going to fill one of the roles as an engineer, a civil
engineer. So, that's why I want to get him on board as soon as possible because he's probably going to be the smartest in the group when it comes to this middle school roof project. But um any other folks out there that are that want to participate that have a background in roofing would love to have you join the
meetings and what are your thoughts? What do you >> There was a gentleman I I can't recall who it was. Somebody it just kept talking about roofs. He Yeah, maybe I'll have to follow up and think of who that was. >> Yeah, that's who I'm thinking of as well. So if anybody knows him, talk to
him and ask him if he wants to help out. I know who we're talking about. would love to have him. Anybody anybody who has experience >> to to to that point or I guess Mr. Kimble's point um I myself I don't know
if anybody else is interested or anybody is interested from this board but I think it would be a I'm I tr fully trust Mr. Kimble and Mr. O'Neal as our representatives myself. Well, some it's that's cautionary. Obviously, we'd have a quorum. We we can't do that. But but
even with just the two of us, to be honest with you, I feel a lot a little uncomfortable because >> it it's a subset of the select board. And um honestly, if there was another member who came forward who was an attorney or an architect, I would step down because
I want to make sure we have a a better mix on on the board. So, >> it's funny you read my mind, but I was thinking the same thing. >> All right. Yeah, I was going to say I was just caution against the three because it's a quorum. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What I what I meant by that was if we
had an expert on votes, >> the board could appoint that person. Yep. >> Not one of us. >> Yep. >> Someone else that has the expertise. >> I got you. Yeah. >> Is what I was trying to say. >> Yep. To add an additional position,
>> uh, you know, at large. >> Yeah. >> Gotcha. >> Okay. Yes. All right. >> Fair enough. No executive. So, moving on. Motion to adjurnn. >> Anything else? Anybody
>> see everybody at the Halloween parade, Mr. Chair? >> Yes, sir. >> Tax classification hearing next in two weeks. >> You want Should the clerk read those two agenda items? Do you want him to? >> I don't
I don't think we have to. the tax classification and the public hearing. And >> we have a we just just to be clear, we have a public hearing uh at our next meeting on November 6th. That's 6:30. >> There we go. >> Okay, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> Make a motion to adjurnn.
>> Second motion in a second. Kevin, >> yes. >> Denise, >> yes. Bob, >> yes. >> Roger. >> Yes. >> And I am a yes. Thank you, everybody.