Evening everyone. Welcome to the joint meeting of the select board and school committee Wednesday January 21st. Uh we have with us for the select board uh Kevin O'Neal, Denise Luciano, Bob Kimell, Roger Marson, and myself.
Mr. Chair. Uh Dan, if you would call your meeting to order, please. >> Probably have to go to the mic. >> Present is >> okay. Thank you, sir. Let's start with the pledge of allegiance, please. I >> pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Joint committee business, we have the appointment of Permanent Building
Committee Member Steven L. Bernstein. Mr. Bernstein, if you could come up to the podium, please introduce yourself and give a background of Sure. >> experience. So, I'm Steven Bernstein. I
live at 18 Nuland Street in Norton, at Redm Mill Village. I am a registered professional civil engineer. been in the business for 50 plus years mostly in infrastructure meaning horizontal construction but I also have experience in vertical construction which of course
what the Burman perman building committee is all about. I um as I said I'm retired. I don't know if I mentioned that but I'm also the Norton water commissioner. I'm the last one that was elected as water commissioner and I am also on the
traffic safety committee with Bob and others. So, I I believe that my experience I can uh be an asset to the committee. I've already attended three meetings even though I'm not even a member and I look forward to helping out the town.
>> Okay. Thank you, sir. Dan, any questions from your board? >> Okay, Mr. Chairman. >> Yep. I just like to uh Steve has come to a number of our meetings and like you said we we serve together on the traffic safety also but I I find this he'll have you bring a lot of experience to the
board that we need on the tra on the U building committee especially with the redesign of the middle school roof which we're in the process of getting ready to discuss have uh it' be great to have someone with his experience on there to kind of guide us on what we should and should not be doing. So I think it'd be
a great great asset to it. Okay, >> Mr. Chair, I just wanted to thank you, Steve, for stepping up and volunteering for this for this committee. Um, or as well as the other two that you uh the volunteer work that you do in town as well. Um, especially for retired
gentlemen like yourself. I don't know what I'm going to do when I'm in retirement, but I may not serve on three committees in town. Um, so thank you for all of your uh support in town and your volunteer uh work. >> Okay. Do you want to go through it
first? >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> I make a motion that we approve Steven Bernstein to the permanent building committee. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Welcome, Mr. Bernstein. >> Thank you very much. >> Good luck.
>> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you. You need to adjourn. >> Best meeting ever. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys. >> Nailed it. >> Have a good night. Thank you guys. All right. So, we don't have any
appointments, resignations, or retirements. So, we'll go right to minutes. Everybody review them. Questions, comments, concerns? Chairman, may I make a motion we approve the minutes of January 8th, 2026 as written? >> Second. >> Motion and a second. All in favor?
>> I. >> Thank you. No licenses and permits. We have some announcements, Mr. Clerk. I don't have anything. Excellent. >> Just the the the one on the uh the reminder on agenda. >> Yeah. The reminder is the Springtown
meeting warrant articles will be accepted until 400 p.m. on February 10th, 2026 at the um select board's office. And we also have a letter from um town manager.
I can read yours from Melissa. >> We do >> from Melissa uh Narwick from Park and Wreck. She wants to thank everyone for assistance in securing the funding for the at the fall town meeting for the money to do the repairs at the playground structures at the Ever
Leonard Park and the community playground in front of the middle school. Company came out last week and replaced other damaged pieces, installed the new equipment, and took care of other miscellaneous things. In conjunction with the new mulch that was put down in the fall, the playgrounds have come a long way to be being safe
and fun for the kids to play on. Again, I feel much better knowing the playgrounds are safe and our little residents can play without me worrying about them getting hurt on the aging equipment. The crew was able to tell me that the structures in the community playground were installed around 2002
and that the one at the average learner was put in around 1998 based on the parts they needed and how far back they go with the inventory to find them. So, she wanted to say thank you and she sent us some nice very nice pictures. So, if you get a chance, go on over there and check it out. It looks nice. >> Can I see the picture?
>> Sure. >> Okay. Thank you, sir. Um, new business, police department update on Norton's police outreach program. Don Martinson and Christopher McCarthy. Chief, >> thank you, sir.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Chief. All right, good evening. Um, what I wanted to do is just uh put a like a quick PowerPoint together um kind of talk about uh problem oriented policing
team and really how we started and and uh where we are now and and Patrolling McCarthy and Donald kind of explained that. So, we got we looked at this in 2015 um and knew that we had to do something a
little different when Norton was number 26 per capita for opioid overdoses. Um, and at that time we we put together a problem orientated policing team to do more follow-ups and uh get to the the
root of the issue and and um put some uh put some some resources out there. So, we put a a team of officers together to do follow-ups. Um they they did a lot of outreach going to a lot of uh community crisis intervention team meetings, made
a lot of contacts. Um, and we also saw that with the opioid addiction, there was a lot of mental health issues as well. So, I'd be remissed if I didn't, you know, talk about these two gentlemen, uh, Detective Sergeant Jesse Winters and and Detective Nick Precook, cuz they
were really they set the foundation for this whole program. Um, they did a lot of leg work. They did a lot of, uh, this was new to the area at the time. um they got a lot of accolades and um it just the the program itself just morphed um
because of the groundwork that they they put into it. Um we did have at the time we had Congressman Kennedy visit the Norton Police Department to talk about the opioid issues and and mental health issues. Um and we brought a a group of uh chiefs and and officers from
surrounding towns to to discuss that. Uh as far as training, the International Association of Chiefs of Police had a one- mind campaign and uh and we all every officer went through uh mental health first aid. Uh we we put a policy
together. We collaborated with the community counseling center of Bristol County, which was really um we'll talk more about that, but was has been really beneficial for us. You know how this started is that myself, Jesse and and Nick Precourt basically knocked on the door of CCBC at 10 West 108 West Maine
and said, "Hey, can we build a partnership?" And they were they were really fantastic and they've they've been fantastic to this day. So, um we really started in 2017 with this with this uh this partnership. Um it was
basically one day a month at the time. Um and it's a team approach and you know one of the big things is to uh you know to to give resources to people but also to divert them from the criminal justice system as well as the hospital setting. So
um she'd probably kill me if she was here but uh Corey was our first clinician. She's actually now Dawn's boss. So she hasn't gone away but she's really valuable. She uh she comes to our Nope meeting still. Um and uh as I said,
you know, she they've done a lot of education for us. We we became quite busy um doing this. I think uh what they'll talk about a little bit more as well. And then finally, we we got a grant a couple years ago with the town of
Rainham. And the grant is a $200,000 grant per year where we get $100,000 that we're able to do the follow-up. we're able to have a clinician and do uh and do outside follow-ups. And um there, you know, I say there's hundreds of
follow-ups. I mean, we're probably we're probably almost at a thousand follow-ups since we started. So, um and with that, I'm going to turn it over to uh to Chris and Don to talk a little bit more about the program. >> Thank you, Chief. Good evening, ladies
and gentlemen. My name is Officer Chris McCarthy. I've been on the Norton Police Department for 15 years and thank you for this great opportunity to inform you about our program. The POW program is essentially a problem orientated policing with a strong emphasis on
community outreach. We believe in a soft approach unmarked cruiser in plain clothes. This provides a non-confrontational setting where uniforms, cruisers, and ambulances may bring up past trauma and potentially elicit a negative interaction.
We are afforded the time, means, and availability to form trusted bonds with our town's most vulnerable citizens. We believe in deescalation to avoid a potential greater issue where we can literally slow the momentum of an incident down to ensure the individual
in need is both heard, fully understood, and a viable outcome is obtained. Where criminal charges and handcuffs may not be the appropriate solution. Our calls for service range from children in crisis, domestic violence, elder abuse,
and real-time mental health crisises. Also with an emphasis on individuals suffering from substance abuse, we respond both proactively and reactively where we encounter an issue and see it through by ensuring those in need are able to receive the appropriate assets
and resources available and continue to follow up to ensure every encounter is a success story. Mental health related calls for service service are up exponentially in recent years. Don and I continue to respond and gain positive rapports and offer the
best possible police and clinical services we can provide for those affected as well as their families. We work directly with the patrol division, Norton detectives, pop units from the surrounding communities. We are very fortunate to have an
exceptional fire department who is on board and assists us in our mission. We work handinhand with the Norton public schools faculty, administration, and staff as well as with the school resource officers. We are in constant communication with Norton Glenn Management and perform community
functions alongside them. We are assisted by Beth Rossi, the director for the senior center, Missy Williams from the housing authority, and Estelle Fleet, our very own veterans agent, who truly care and take pride in their work. We assist the Department of Children and
Family Services, DCF, the District Attorney's Office Special Victims Unit, the Norton Opioid Prevention Education Committee. In closing, we are committed and dedicated to providing the highest level of service to our community. Lastly, we are very fortunate to have
Dawn working with our department. Her professionalism, knowledge, and expertise are second to none, and our community greatly benefits for having her on board and serving our community. Thank you. And with that, I'll leave it to Don. >> Good evening, everyone. To piggyback off
of everything that Chief and Chris have said so far, my name is Don Martinson. I have been in this role now for about two and a half years. I am a licensed social worker through the Community Counseling of Bristol County, otherwise known as CCBC. Um, I'm contracted out into the Norton Police Department 3 days a week
and the Rainham Police Department 2 days a week through a Department of Mental Health funded co-response program. As Chief had explained, this program began as a jail diversion program to keep the folks um that are experiencing mental health crises out of prisons and keeping
them in the mental health treatment that these individuals desperately need. Um, since then we've transitioned more from a jail diversion program to also an emergency room diversion program because unfortunately our emergency rooms are filled with mental health crises. Um,
and this way pop teams such as us, mobile crisis teams were able to complete intensive mental health evaluations at the crisis office in the community, um, even over Zoom to prevent our clients from sitting in these emergency rooms which can often worsen their mental status. uh we were able to
assess for risk safety plan and come up with the correct level of care at a rapid rate. Having clinicians like myself riding in cruisers with police officers were able to get there um within minutes instead of having to wait hours on the phone or in the emergency room. Um, we also work alongside the
community crisis intervention team, CCIT, which is a team of stakeholders throughout Bristol Countyy's courts, hospitals, mental health providers, and many other agencies to brainstorm solutions for community members who may be struggling with either substance use or mental health, and they just don't know what to do when they don't know
where to go. So, that's where we kind of fall into place. Um, since the co-response program started, we have responded to upwards of almost we're almost at thousands of calls at this point. Personally, since December of 2025, I have responded to 251 calls for
service, whether that be follow-ups or active 911 calls. Um, thank you so much everybody for your time this evening. We're happy to answer any questions you have for us now or you can always call the police department and we're happy to answer them then. >> Thank you very much. Uh I have one quick
question uh regarding probably maybe for you chief the grant um how how does that exactly work between us and uh Rainham? >> Yes. So it's we're in a third year of it. It uh we basically send vouchers
into Rainham and then they they uh they do all the the paperwork and then they reimburse us. It's a reimbursement grant and uh CCBC sends us a monthly bill. So, uh, we we will cut them a check and then we get reimbursed for that. >> Um, there was a little I'll be honest
with you, last year there was a little, um, question on if that grant was going to be renewed. It didn't get actually renewed until September. So, it caused a little angst. Um, but we do, you know, I've talked to the town manager. I might have mentioned it, you know, to you in
the summer that we do have opioid funds that would Yeah., you know, would be useful if that if the grants pulled out from under us. So, but I think one, you know, one of the the spotlights we're here for today is, you know, the town manager saw that um these two were were
spotlighted in a rapport magazine from William James College um about the problem orientated policing co-response and uh the work that they they do. I mean, they're very they're very well known. They're asked all the time to go and speak places um colleges, other uh
other departments. So, they really do a fantastic job for us. Thank you, Chief. And they do. Thank you very much, guys. It's very wellreceived in the community, people that, you know, we've heard. So, >> thank you. >> Yeah. >> Yes, sir.
>> Chief, what's our ranking now? You mentioned our ranking was 26. >> Yeah, it's I, >> you know, it's higher than 26. So the so um you know at the height of the crisis I think we've had you know upwards of 35
overdoses in a year and we're down you know we still have them but they're like maybe five and we we had like seven or eight deaths in one year and you know we might have one. Um >> so there considerably to where they they were but the mental health is really you
know the bigger aspect now. Yeah, it it has been for a long time since they closed all the facilities in the Commonwealth. So the uh question on the fire department though, they're obviously partners. So when you guys do have a situation, they pretty much know how to handle it when they get there and
you you'd advise them ahead of time. So they pretty much know what they're getting into, which is probably a good thing. As far as the grant goes, um I hope you continue to get it. Mhm. >> But if there's anything this board can do to help with a letter to a certain person or whoever that might be, uh, we
want you to know that we're here to do that. We don't want I I think this program is very important. And it brings to mind two years ago, I was coming up Pine Street and I saw a young man on the side of the road banging his head into the ground. And I called the police and
I said, "This guy's got a problem. I don't know what it is, but you need to come down and help." and they came down and they they did a nice job of calming him down and they took him somewhere, you know, where he needed he needed to go somewhere. So, I think that's a perfectly a good example of how that
that system can work. The um I know way back when in the early days of your programs, the young men that were involved in it were very much involved in it. And this looks like it sounds like the next step up from what they what they started and created,
which is great. Uh especially for towns. But um again, if there's anything we can do, uh feel free to write the letter and we'll sign it. I mean, we want to make sure that programs like this continue to exist and it's even better when the town
doesn't have to come up with the money themselves, you know, based on what what's going on. But problem's still out there. We need the help. as much as >> there's there's a lot of people now that'll uh that'll call either one of these people when they're having a crisis to even avoid calling 911 or
anything. They call them right away. So, this is the rapport that they've they've built with with people in the community. So, >> Mr. Chair, >> yes, sir. Um I would just uh like to thank both of you or all three of you actually for the uh your professionalism
in this manner and the compassion that you have for uh people who are like you say in the most need in in town. So um it's you're really an asset to the community and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the work that you do. Thank you. >> Thank you,
>> Mr. Chair. Any other? >> Yes. So, I'm not going to try to summarize what you folks very articulately presented tonight because I'll probably sound I'm going to oversimplify how wonderful this program is. Um, I just wanted to ask um is Dawn dedicated to
the town of Norton? >> Yes. Well, three days three days a week. >> And what are the hours that that you work? Because I know a lot of situations occur at night. Um, yeah, >> right now we we switched it to a 9 to5
type of schedule that um it's when we can do the most follow-ups. It seems like it's working out the best. Actually, you know, about a week ago, our schedule was 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., but we switched it because we think it would be better. Um, but you know the partnership with CCBC like if
we have a problem like we can call Dawn after hours, we can call Corey after hours, we can call, you know, and they walk us through stuff and it's um I can't say enough about, you know, them as an organization, the help they've provided us. Chief, you had mentioned back in the summertime when you were talking about the opio opioid settlement
funds. By the way, when they first came out, the first round, I remember you being quoted in the paper that you weren't quite sure how you wanted to spend them. And you were very prudent in in saving them and not spending them. And I don't know if that's still the case. Sounds like it is, but if this
grant runs out for Dawn, then you have that to fall back on, which is very uh, you know, forward thinking. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Um maybe this was a blessing in disguise being number 26 because it was 10 years
ago and then as we all know just a few years after you've built this support foundation we had the pandemic which I'm sure the mental health issues got even worse and people couldn't find resources to help them if they had mental health issues beyond um you know opioids. Um, I
don't know if you saw that or your predecessor, your boss did, Don, but you kind of got it in place just in time, right, for the not knowing that the pandemic was coming. So, um, sometimes things turn out to be a blessing in disguise, right?
Um, I wanted to ask if somebody were to call and need this type of support, if they how do they request it? like if they dial 911 if there's an emergency or a violent act occurring at a home and somebody is struggling with mental
health um concerns, can they request, you know, the POP when they dial 911 or how do they get that that support? >> Yeah, that that would be I mean it would be triaged based on the need. So, you know, we may send a police car or you know have a response go. Um, you know,
usually a lot of people now there is a dedicated phone line that we have now that uh, Officer McCarthy has. I don't know if you want to mention that. >> Absolutely. >> So, like the chief was mentioning that absolutely happens on a daily basis. We'll receive calls for service. They'll say, "Hey, we didn't know if this was
the right number to call. We heard through the grapevine, but is there any way that you can help with my mom or my brother's suffering?" And that's how we respond. I can give you the number and I can also give you our email. And a lot of times too they'll calls we'll come right to the front desk and the desk
officer has our number posted and he'll give it to the people in need and then they'll reach out directly. >> Great. And does through you chair does the Foxboro dispatch office have your number as well where they can refer folks to you directly? >> I'm sure they do, but most times like
the chief was mentioning if it needs a if it needs police service right away. Yeah. They'll the dispatch will dispatch the police units just to ensure everybody's safety, >> assess the scene, make sure they don't they're not needed, the ambulance isn't needed, the fire department's not
needed, etc. And then they'll say, "Okay, this is Chris and Don's phone number. Feel free to reach out and we'll also advise them as well." And then in their report, they'll write a report and they'll leave it with us. So that way it's covered on both sides.
>> That's great. And and I love how the um stigma the perception of mental health issues is changing. People are understanding that there are a lot of aspects to it and the substance use disorder is one of the terminologies now that's being used
instead of you know um some of the other past ones that may have been a little prejudicial you know as far as understanding the challenges that people are going through. So I think this is uh this is really great. I I wish we had the Norton, not the Norton, but the uh
Sun Chronicle on this uh Zoom cuz I the next step I I really want to hope that I hope that we get some kind of a PSA out beyond what you folks are doing. Like I wish somebody was reporting on this meeting tonight where we could get some front page news in the
paper or at least some public recognition of the work that you're doing and let the community know that we have the support channel in town. So, I don't know, Mr. Town Manager, if there's anything we can do through a social media post, uh, through the town of
Norton or on our website or maybe just reach out to, uh, the Sign Chronicle and refer them to the, you know, this taping of this meeting tonight so that we can get the word out cuz very few people watch these meetings and this is too important not to uh,
promote. On that note, it might be if we haven't done in a little while, it might be a good time. um in particular to reach out to Norton Cable and do a little segment on that and then we can link it to our social media pages and >> and put something out. So >> that's great.
>> Great idea. >> Thank you, Chief. >> Anybody else? >> No, >> I echo all of that. >> Okay. Well, thank you very much, guys. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Great job. >> Okay. So, we're going to jump to um uh
jump over all business and do one line item of the town manager report uh out of consideration for the person being appointed. Uh and then move back up to the item B of new business. So, Mr. Town Manager. >> Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Um so, as was
mentioned, Mr. Basama is here with us this evening. This notice of appointment is a long time coming. This is our first IT director for the town of Norton. We couldn't be more pleased with our choice. After a
extensive process, Mr. AAD rose to the top and he has experience in other towns doing the exact same thing that that we need here. Um, and I I couldn't be more happy to introduce everyone to uh Mr.
Wad. I I don't know if we should have him say a few words or >> I uh wait are you Mr. Road? If you could come up to the podium please sir. Welcome. Uh good evening um
uh Mr. Chair, board of selectman and um town manager Mr. proud. Um it's um it's my pleasure to be here today appointed for this position. Um again, my name is Basim Wad and I have it's my honor to be
here today um to serve the town and um solve most of the problem you guys have here that Mr. Cloud already give me a list of uh projects to work on. Um I have about more than 20 years of
municipal IT experience. I served other towns surrounding towns and um my focus is realable systems cyber security and serve the rest of the departments uh town departments to to
help them to succeed in their daily um work. Um, thank you. >> Okay, great. Well, thank you, Mr. Town Manager. Elaborate. >> Uh, so yes, um, he has extensive experience with, uh, the towns of
Townsend, Wemouth, and Denim, and we are looking to schedule a meet and greet drop in February 2nd. Time to be announced, but stay tuned. >> Okay. >> Three through your chair. >> Any member? Yep. >> I was just curious. Uh you mentioned
that you've had a chance to look at um our systems and that Mark's given you a long laundry list. What would you say are the top three things you're looking to tackle? Um um I need to understand the network system that you have right now. Uh I
want to see what's in place for uh cyber security. That's the most important thing. um and actually go through you know walk through each department and see what they have for equipments and and then pro uh definitely I will be um
summarizing uh a pre-port to Mr. Cloud about the systems and what needs to be taken care right away. >> Yeah. >> Right. Right. I would add if if it's okay with Mr. Chair. >> Absolutely. A couple of priorities are inventorying the technology assets
besides vehicles u laptops, monitors and accessories are we need to keep track of those a lot better than we are >> and also implementing a ticketing system so when somebody makes a request to it it's recorded and tracked. We've
received your request and that way we're keeping track of the the great work it is doing. So those two things are on top of the list and in addition to what was mentioned. >> Sure. >> I say there's probably some um some a lot of space for technology advancements
to help make uh life simpler for a lot of people. Um you know, use of AI certainly is becoming a big thing. Um more scanning and electronic use of documentation. Um so yeah, I look forward to seeing what you can do.
>> Sure. That's that's the most important that I'm going to be evaluating what you have right now. Yeah. And then I'll be making recommendation what needs to be taken place or what we have to purchase. Uh ticketing system is very important because that's how we can you know
communicate with the user keep a record of what the department did will be doing. Um in the meantime, uh you can do a lot of stuff with the ticketing system that you can um schedule patches,
updates, Windows updates, um antivirus update, and so a lot of stuff that you can do with the ticketing system. So >> great, look forward to it. >> So Mr. Chair, um the proper pronunciation of your name just so we get it right. >> Sure. Bassim, it's B A S E M and last
name Awat. A W A D. >> Well, Mr. So, we'll probably start calling you blossom once you get started. Uh, if you don't mind, we're pretty we're friendly around here and we're informal and we all have we're all dressed because we had our picture taken for the town report tonight. We normally
don't dress. At least Alec doesn't. >> I thought it was because I thought it was because Bassum was coming. >> What's that? >> I thought it was because Mr. We dressed up for you. as I >> um I I love the way you responded to um to the question Denise's question
because I love that approach. You need to assess where we are today. Evaluate kind of go through discovery before and what M with the town manager mentioned obviously those things need to be done but somebody in your position it's good that you have that perspective to
understand where we are now first assess the current state if you would right and then and then kind of layer on top of that what the solutions are. So that was a very good response and we're we're very lucky to have you as the town manager probably indicated. So welcome
and uh we enjoy meeting you and we look forward to working with you. >> Sure. Thank you. >> All right. I think one of the critical things for me may me the not that long ago the uh school IT
system was compromised and it uh wre havoc and cost some money. So that would be more of a uh priority, you know, from my standpoint. Um, and I'm sure that's probably going to be conveyed um, and
dealt with as well to make sure that our information is protected um, in the event uh, that someone does try and hack in, they it will be thwarted. So, but thank you very much. Appreciate it. Anything else? Anybody else?
>> You want me to read the um, do we want to go through the process or not? >> No. >> Okay. >> No thanks. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Yep. >> Thank you. Can't wait for you to start. >> Yep. Good luck. >> Thank you. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Okay, so let's jump back to uh item B of
new business 2026 Springtown meeting warrant proposal for district improvement finance consultant from town planner. >> He's been waiting patiently. >> Come on down, Paul. >> Thank you. >> Hi everyone. I'm Paul D. Jazeppi and the
town planner and I'm just going to share the screen and then um let's get started. I I have a short presentation but also as I'm going along uh please uh feel free to ask questions at at any time uh always find that presentations
I know when I'm listening to them I'd really like to ask it when I'm when someone is speaking anyway. So, um there's there's a couple of reasons why I'm putting this forward. Um one is there has been a tool available
to municipalities to finance infrastructure for a long time. Uh and it's this district improvement financing and I so I'm going going to talk about that. But what's also driving this is in my role as economic development director
um you know I work with other departments to figure out you know what can we do to bring development in and many of you heard me have heard me say this but sewer is the key driver. So the purpose of this whole initiative is to seek is there a tool is this tool
something we would be considered that we could consider to do um to help finance sewer expansion and and in particular one of the areas the area we've talked about a lot internally as staff is extending the sewer from where it exists
now at the housing authority and getting it to the middle school. Uh and I'm not the engineer. not public works director or the uh you know sewer superintendent, but that has been a discussion I've had with the sew the sewer superintendent
and some other staff. So, we wanted to get going. In fact, we applied for a grant to finance this last year, but we did not get it. Um and so now I'm trying to see if there's another way we can approach this. And again, I'm just
seeing if this is a something that the select board would like to see on the on the U town meeting warrant and if not, if there's some way we can work to together to figure out how we can get sewer financed to extend it u because there's pretty significant economic
benefits. So, I'm looking at $50,000 request to find uh to fund Serpent, our regional planning agency, to help us do the plan. Um and you'll see at the end um and in your attachments there is a proposal from them. Um so so I'm going
to briefly go over what is district improvement financing and then what are the benefits and then talk about the comparison between financing with a dis with a diff and not and the way you know which is the way we've done it before. So simply put, district improvement
financing allows any municipality to capture in a district that's defined where you say we're going to look at, let's say, West Main Street. Let's let's look at the area between the housing authority and the middle school. We want to designate
that as a defined area. and any new growth that happens in that area after this plan has been adopted. Um the new growth can be allocated for uh the the just the incremental
growth could be allocated back to pay off the bond for the sewer. Um doesn't have to be 100%. The town would define if it's 50% of new growth, 75% or 100%. Um, but it gives a chance to help pay
back the loan. So, it's a new tool that we haven't used before, but it's reinvested to to help with the with the sewer. And I keep saying sewer because this really works best when it's paying for an infrastructure that attracts growth. And sewer really is that one.
You know, it's not going to be sidewalks. It's not storm water. Those are important things, but those don't attract growth. Um, the existing tax revenue is still protected. So if that area was let's say we were bringing in a million dollars a year for it we would
still get that it would still grow and in fact even if it gets re as it gets reassessed down the road if its reassessment goes if its assessment goes up but it had nothing to do with them adding uh development there that would
still go to the general fund. Um the diff, it's not a tax, it's not an increase, a tax increase. It's just a tool. It's just a way of allocating new grow uh new growth in uh property taxes. And the diff has been used by a lot of
towns uh throughout the state. In fact, throughout the country uh but Mansfield, Easton, Taon, in fact, the Cape now is looking a lot of communities there because of the septic issues they have. So why are we proposing it? Again, my
job as economic development director, I'm trying to help our budget by attracting development to the town so we can get more real estate taxes and even motor vehicle excise tax. So funding sewer is a big part of it. U and I
believe and I think you can see where we've had sewer investments on our commercial corridors, we're starting to see a big positive impact on our, you know, real estate and excise taxes. When you think about like Blueest Star Business Park or even Mansfield A, the segment that has sewer, we have some of
our largest buildings and employers there. And so there are a number of benefits to a diff. Um I'll just go through this quickly, but again as you have questions, there's no ex no impact on the existing tax base that stays with
the uh uh general fund. Um it also makes projects potenti you know more feasible without raising taxes because again it's going to take that new growth to help pay the bond back. Um also it's all local it's all local control. This the
commonwealth does not have any approval process in any of this. The the town defines the district boundaries our infrastructure priorities and how much of that new growth would get allocated to the infrastructure and how much would go back to the general fund. uh a plan
as it's adopted would have to go to town meeting for approval. Uh and finally, there's a number of other things, but it also supports the master plan, which the master plan talked about the need to use infrastructure to promote economic development, particularly in key uh
corridors and uh economic uh development areas, underutilized sites. Um so I just briefly want to talk about the difference between a diff with traditional infrastructure financing that we've done. How do they work? What
are the advantages? Uh tradeoffs and so forth and ultimately you know when when is the right time to use a diff. Um so with a traditional uh financing without a diff which we've done to finance other projects. We issue a bond
uh to construct sewer and the debt service is paid from the sewer enterprise fund and there are betterments or it's paid back out of betterments and rates. Um there are a number of advantages to doing this. It's a it's a certainly a great way. We've done it before. It's we're familiar with it. It's relatively fast implement. Once
we get the money, we can start spending and we control it. Um but there are considerations as part of the trade-off. There's existing taxpayers and rateayers bear the pay for it. So they and they bear the risk the debt that that we
would spend. Of course, it competes with schools and public safety. It's it's what the board and the public would ultimately prioritize where they want to see their investments go. And that's not any different with a diff either. Um but the town's going to pay regardless of whether development occurs, but again,
that's why we want sewer to make sure that we can get it. So with a diff, you still issue a bond. Um but then the new tax revenue generated by the development uh would pay for the debt service and reduce bond size or the term. Uh the
again uh betterments are also collected even with a diff. So that's in effect. You can still do tiffs within a diff. Um the advantages the growth helps pay for growth which you know what the bond does bond without the diff does that too. Um it reduces reliance on the sewer
enterprise fund. It aligns the cost with the beneficiaries where here the the people who bear the cost the most are the developments that are directly affected by it whereas with the bond the all the rateayers eventually uh contribute to
that debt. Um and then considerations this does again trade-off it requires much more upfront planning which is why we're in this case seeking to get a serpent to help us. And just like with the other, you know, it depends on the
development. We, you know, the goal is to try to promote more development to pay it back, but as you know, it can take a few years, could take more than a few years even with sewer to get development depending on markets and economic conditions. So, there's a lot on this slide. There's
a couple things I just want to point out. And this is, you know, when would you use a diff or not a diff? And just in looking at research, you know, we would want to consider a diff where it enables and promotes economic
development, which I would say where we're proposing here would be, but I know that there's also concern to make sure we have budget flexibility that all new growth would go to, you know, into
the uh general fund. And if that's the priority, then we, you know, the, you know, would advise that the bond go with go forward with a bond with no diff. I should say too with with the proposal with the diff, I'm just putting out
there what area I would like to see, but we would have to work with a lot of departments to determine what are the areas that we want to see that infrastructure go in. Um, for me, I think a big bang for the buck is that segment from the housing authority to
the middle school. But, uh, we have a new, you know, a new, uh, public works director. Uh, we would need to work with people. But, um, so, you know, there's no better option than the other. It really is what option
best aligns with the town's priorities for for this. Um, and then I just wanted to put here up here was the proposal that Serpent had provided. Uh, you'll see that the grand total was $65,000, but they're proposing that we could use
municipal assistance hours and uh, direct local technical assistance. If we agreed to use that, that would reduce it by $18,000 and it would be a roughly $47,000. But I just put in some for some contingencies. So,
um, that is the end of my presentation and I'll be happy to answer any questions. So, Paul, thank you very much for running that down. Um, one one thing that just sticks out to me
is uh probably the biggest thing I mean I have a couple point couple notes that I jotted. Um, what do we need to pay Serpent 50 grand for when you know this is this is part of your job as well as our new TBW director identifying we know
the areas that we need to update our infrastructure or expand. We already know that we don't need a I mean we can put a plan together. Um, you know, it it that's that's one of the main things, you know, besides having our new DPW director, I think in
conjunction with the DPW director, putting this on paper, uh, and I just I don't see the just first glance and and I'm just throwing this stuff out there. Um, you know, I I just don't see why we
would in bring Serpent in that would completely sloww walk the whole program. Um, >> you know, we can we can set up a vehicle or an account, you know, it to to identify that, sell it at, you know, or, you know, lack of a better term, if a
project comes in, we can set that up that identified for that project on our own. I don't I don't know why we need Serpent to pay Serpent 50 grand to do it. Uh that's just my assessment. Um and then why would we still need a betterment? This is probably more or
more relevant. Why why would we even need a betterment if we're not why couldn't we identify those taxes on that new development? you know, depending on the size and scope of the project. But why why
couldn't those offset a betterment if we if I'm not not mistaken, that's one of the reasons why some of the other recent things didn't didn't end up going through. And I don't want to keep make, you know, this is, you know, going a squirrel going in a squirrel cage. I
don't think Sepid is a just just my my two cents from a de, you know, as a developer standpoint, >> right? So to your first point, a big part of it is is the resources. This is intensive. If you look at some of the uh diff plans that are there, there's a lot
of technical work that I I certainly don't have the capability of doing. They that you have to look at properties and try to estimate their redevelopment potential and and then you have to try to do revenue projections because part of this report you're projecting revenues that
you're, you know, you hope will come to fruition or you can exceed them to help pay back the loan. I don't know that we have the horses here to be able to do that. I I don't feel particularly comfortable
with that with that tech with the capabilities that we have for it. I understand that and I appreciate that and respect that. Um but you know, a developer that's going to bring a project to the table, they already know that. We make them do the calculations. I mean, I do this for stuff that I do. I
have to. It's part of being a developer. um we put the onus on them and then we set up the program our our own in-house GIF and um you know if you will where that tax base
increase you know whatever that value is when that >> project is fully built out uh that can be used to pay down that bond. That's that's I don't know of any is there anything missing?
>> I think there's a lot more detail into this plan. I mean there's going to be a lot of things we can do but there are the fiscal ends of it that I don't know of any town every town I've looked at has consultants helping them put this together and and the reports
I've seen again when you get into fiscal projections on revenue that's out of my league. I I mean I can identif I can contribute some aspect of determining what a property might be able to do for redevelopment but we don't even have
this the the software to do that >> and a developer does it. They already know the value of the project building. >> They have the resources. I'm a twoerson planning department. >> Oh yeah. >> I just don't have I hate saying that because >> I understand that's that's how we get the information. We don't have to
develop we don't have to find out that information. that's right at our fingertips. >> Well, we can certainly look and take a hard look as a team and see is that if that's information, but it's it, you know, and again, I'm
not trying to avoid work cuz I, you know, not at all. I just want a I want to make sure it's accurate because we're dealing with projections on taxes and whatnot. We need to make sure that that's, >> you know, professionally done. And um
you know we want to make sure it's accurate. We don't want to really miss on that because that could be a very >> you know that absolutely understood. I do think uh the new TBW director once he gets his plan in place and starts you
know getting getting a good um getting a good baseline of the infrastructure we have and the infrastructure that we we need. Uh I'm sure he's doing someformational meetings with community members, all stakeholders and everything to know where our deficiencies are and
where our priorities may may be. And um I think uh he has the experience um to be to to be able to identify and know that these commercial and industrial properties are probably top
of uh top of a priority list uh as they they're the biggest taxpayers. >> Yeah. And I can do some assessments on that too. And some of it's just >> the eye test, right? When you go down through route, you know, when we where
we have sewer and there's a single family home or very underutilized property, that sewer change the land value. That's why we're starting to see even on Oh, sure. That's changing it. >> I mean, we can I can go back and talk
with some of the staff and go over this and see is that something we might be able to do inhouse. it and that's >> you know I don't want to overpromise because I look at I'm like oh this is >> if I didn't have to do planning board
work maybe so >> but I get it I I understand that's just my first take on it and it's obviously there very well may be some stuff I I I don't know >> and that's why we're seeking you know this a this you know conversation and
then your your guidance on it. I want to make sure that there's support from the select board to move forward on this. At the end of the day, I hope we just have support to move forward on sewer for economic development purposes. Whether it's the diff, I I don't I don't want to
come across as saying diff is the tool we need to use. I just a wanted to introduce this as a as a tool because we haven't used it. But at the end, I I would to me in my position to be able to have sewer go in and expand it elsewhere
along one of our two major corridors. That's a win. >> That's that's what I'm looking for. >> Absolutely. whether it's a diff or not if we don't have to do this and we can go another you know if we wanted to take the approach we took
>> uh with West Main Street you know 5 years ago or well it was constructed 5 years ago that's that's great that's that's you know that's a terrific it's just you know looking at a few just providing you all with some other potential tools out there
>> Mr. chair. >> Yes, sir. >> If you don't mind, I'll I just have a couple questions. Um, >> so Paul, >> I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I probably shouldn't have been looking at your slides while I was trying to listen to you at the same time because one got in the way of the other, but that's what happens when you're over 60.
Um, the diff. >> Thanks for letting me know. I'm almost there. So help me under understand how the diff differs from what we traditionally do are doing today when when there's a a sewer line put in and and you have the Betterments and you
have the tie-in fees and the the initial bonding comes out of the sewer funds and then it's paid back. Is is the diff like an actual overlay district or does it require the developer to pay more of the upfront cost? Just explain it.
>> No, it it's not. But it is a district but it's a it's a district for where you are identifying those properties from which you will uh absorb or use the revenues from new growth to be reinvested back in. But it doesn't make
the developer property owner contribute any more to it >> or less. >> The businesses that tie in do um where's the where's the extra revenue come from? Again, there's no uh there's no new tax and it's not a tax increase. The
difference is is >> where where if you do a bond without a diff, all the new growth comes back to the town in the general fund and but you're still using the uh sewer enterprise fund to pay off the bond or
you know there may be some other bond methods that we use. In this case, if we if we floated a bond, you would use that new growth or some percentage of the new growth from that district to pay back the bond. >> Okay?
>> And that's really at its heart what that what it is. >> So, for example, so let's use a housing authority to the middle school line, which by the way, I years ago we had the housing authority pumped to the middle school on site septic. And then when we had the line rampant run down through
Weaten College and to the treatment plant, then I thought it was reversed and I thought everything was flowing in the other direction from the middle school pass the housing authority to the treatment plant. That's not happening. >> Um I I well now that the high school and the and the housing authority around
sewer I mean I I can't answer that but there was a there there was effluent going from one to the other and getting treated. The middle school is not tied into the treatment plant. Now the one down in >> it is my understanding is it is not.
>> I I I disagree. Um the pumping station behind the new middle school was that was designed to pump out into the leeching field. >> It was failing a few years ago. We took an abandoned water pipe, ran a line through it, put it up to the middle school, and by doing so we're pumping
sewage now from the middle school to the new treatment plant in front of the U >> housing authority. opposing authority, >> right? >> It goes into there and then continues to come down >> and then it goes into the sewer. Okay. Okay. >> The downside to it is nobody can touch it because it's a it's a it's a forced.
>> So force main. So it's it's under the street but it's only utilized for the middle school. >> Right. And it's sized it was only sized to make that connection. So >> and there's there's a pumping station behind the yellow school too that feeds it up to Plain Street and beyond. So is
that a bad example invol now that we know this that the the trying to increase business on between the housing authority and the middle school to create this economic development for this particular >> well I think there's there's great opportunities >> but if it's main does it does it even
work >> well we can't use it >> right >> we would have to >> do another line >> replace it or something that >> that force man is inside the abandoned I think it's a 6 in water line water that was on that when Dwayne Nap was superintendent, um he elected to abandon
that line and install a new one in hopes of using that abandoned one in the future, which was done. You know, God rest his soul. He had that foresight way back when. Um I was a water sewer commissioner then, way back when. >> Good. >> Um >> I remember that, Alec. I thought it was
Yeah. >> But I think uh what maybe this will clarify it a little bit, Paul. So if there is you know an area say um you know from from Wheaten Pine Street to here so anything built in this area that
new growth tax revenue realized once that asset is built and fully taxed that's the revenue that will be identified to pay off the bond for whatever infrastructure upgrades were put out there am I correct Paul >> right >> and how is that determined is it a portion of the
like this the uh um real estate taxes only we can touch like sales revenue we can't touch. So, how how is that determined? >> How much of that incremental business can be attributed to the sewer and allocated to the diff? >> Well, it's a it's a finite you know what
you know what the project is going to be valued when it's when it's built when it's when it's done. um you know I see I I heard it different and then what I'm hearing is um it's new growth and new growth comes back to us at the end of
every calendar year certified and all that stuff. What I'm hearing I think is a portion of that new growth based on the construction of the new program the new property will be utilized to pay down the debt of of the infrastructure for the for the sewer line >> improvement. So, if you think about it
that way, we're going to pay for it one way or the other. We're either going to get it through new growth or we're going to take a portion of the new growth factor that we're going to be getting from that new property, the value, and paying for it the other way. So, one way or the other, we're going to pay for it. >> Absolutely. >> A new growth, a new growth won't be as
as high as we don't want it to be because that new growth is then utilized to offset some of the cost of doing a day-to-day business. So, you know, it's it's one hand washing the other, but they they're both coming from the same hand. I >> I think probably the most uh you know,
valid point when a project goes in front of planning that they know that they're, you know, doing a diff and you know, this could be a potential benefit, you know, knowing that, you know, uh or getting community support. they they you know other tax rateayers
>> that are not within that area you know in effectively in essence they're not paying for the betterment of that property or that >> that that you in that area. >> Yeah. >> I think that is the uh
optics of it. It's it it is I mean there's again there's trade-offs to both to both of them. You know, I don't want to come across that diff is the magic pill that, you know, fixes all of it. It's just again, it's a it's a different way how to use the the financing.
>> Yeah. How to be able to get a project across the finish line, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, really, you know, that's >> right. >> You know, with the town meeting uh type stuff or, you know, plan getting project through planning board. I mean, that's right. >> That's it in a nutshell. Other than
that, I think and you know, I I don't want you to think I was trying to attack it. Just questions, you know, but I think you Justin, town manager, I think you guys have the capability and know how to do this without paying serpent 50 grand. That's that's my point >> for for you, chair. Just >> Yep.
>> Uh I just wanted to say I do know like from sitting on economic development committee that the the two biggest barriers to new businesses coming in are sewer and and lack of availability of land. So >> my concern is the the corridor that you pinpointed I know there other options as
well but a wellestablished corridor where there's businesses that already exist don't I don't see a lot of growth that's probably going to happen in that unless they decide to sell the building and someone purchases the property and turns it into something else. Right. Mhm. >> It would it sounds like we'd be still
hurting for the finances to be able to fund this diff fund because we wouldn't get a lot of new growth based on established businesses in an already established tight corridor with no land really. It'd be great if it was someplace where we had a big swath of
land availability where we could truly have like more of a, you know, maybe what we planned before and whatever the name of that street is with the industrial area, right? But never came to fruition, but something like that that would have been beautiful there, right? >> Yeah. And and I'm glad you're bringing
this up because I think you all know you you just said it. Um, you know, 5 years ago we were building out Blueest Star Business Park. We we don't have that left. We have really one big property and we're waiting for MASDOT to finally
get out get it out on the market. I I maintain a vacant land inventory of commercially and industrial zoned land. I mean, there's a little bit left, but it's all on septic. It's got wetland issues. They I mean, a number of these properties, we have to be thinking of a with a
redevelopment mindset. And you know, we hit our home runs with Business Park and with Blue Star. I think just using a baseball analogy, I think, you know, you can win a baseball game with singles and and doubles. I I just don't know that we have any grand slam. You know, I think
we have one grand slam left. >> And even that's a you know, would have been nice if that came on board four years ago when we were still building warehouses in this state. Um, so I just think that we can get even
even if you see a, you know, an a property that has, let's say it just goes from one to two stories or even three stories, that's still when you look at it on that basis, it still could be a 25% increase. It's not a overall
number is not going to be huge, but if you start to see a number of these number of these properties improving themselves, even if they just go in and rehab it, we're going to assess it at a higher level. That's still a win. Um, and you know, we have properties like
Valentine and, you know, even even uh uh 184 West Main. they'd like to they've approached us about helping out because they'd like to see development in those areas. Those could be more substantial. That
would be, you know, uh bigger than a, you know, that'd be a double. >> Or if you get both of them, that could be a home run combined, you know. Um, >> Mr. chairman. >> So yeah, I think just looking at it from
the perspective of, you know, what can we do to promote redevelopment of of limited areas and areas on the corridors which, you know, not in the neighborhoods and hopefully direct certain things to those areas and it wouldn't be impactful to the to the
neighborhoods >> unlike some projects that come in front of the planning board. >> Mr. Chairman, the um first of all, Seren, I I've had the experience of working with them the past couple years on three different projects um with the
traffic safety committee. And fortunately, I got it for nothing. And they they've worked with me and helped me do some traffic safety studies and um some other stuff that was very very beneficial. We got finally got Wooden Street designated as a no trucking zone,
that kind of stuff. >> So, can't I can't say enough good things about Serpent. And in my mind, if Serpent is advertised to do this project, we'll get more than our dollars worth. I think they'll come back with a very complete report. No question about it. Um,
part of the issue we have with additional storage and we're starting to we're starting to see that now especially in the VCC is the village commercial core is the fact that plane sewage also allows and encourages
additional housing in the town. And I'm looking at some of the uh the new growth that's going on in town right now. And I think I I'll probably bring up I I was with you last night at a meeting, one of your planning board meetings, and we're talking about zero Mansfield A. I think that's a perfect example of what you're
talking about right now. If this program were in place, working with the developer instead of putting a forced line down >> Mansfield A to the center of town and connecting, I believe what you're saying is this program would allow us to go to
the developer and say, "Look, you're going to go to this expense anyway. Why don't you put up your cash? We'll put up our cash and we'll make this thing a gravityfed system that would make sense if we wanted ever and develop any section of Mansfield Avenue from the res
down to the center. When it comes to West Main Street, that's pretty obvious. Um because you do have Valentine to that hasn't a p piece of land there, but there's other parcels along the way there that are that are pretty much not going to go anywhere as long as they
don't have storage. And more importantly, we need the storage at the at the middle school. So, I understand all that. We've already been talking about the middle school and making that connection. That has to be the next step. We have to go from the housing authority down to the middle school in order to do that because we have
businesses there that want to flourish and want to expand and want to do things, but their septic systems are failing and they're not going to do anything. It's not going to go anywhere. Um, the other problem and I I just talked to the new D uh D
um the new um Justin. I spoke to him recently um and talked about, you know, if we were to go, we talked about Betterments for for a minute. If we were going to say go to zero Mansfield out
and say, "Okay, you you're going to spend so much money to put the sewer line in, we're going to come back and we're going to work with you and put in a a proper sewer line, a gravityfed sewer system. Um, I'm opposed to any more of these
forced uh systems because they're not doing us any good. We're tearing up our streets. We're putting them down. And I'm a perfect example of it on men's on Pine Street. I have a solar line that I gave I gave the town a betterment to put the solar line through. It runs right in
front of my house, but I can't connect to it. Not that I need to, but I would have if I could have. Sure. You know, that kind of stuff. So, I think we need to start looking at some of that, but um >> I can't not I I can't say enough good things about Syria. I just want to be clear on that. >> Me, too. Um, and I think they're they've
been very very good to us in the as a town and helped us out a lot. Um, so as an example, just so I'm clear on this, if we took zero Mansfield app as an example and you had this program already
in place, what would that do for us as far as surge goes? Well, if we had any difference, >> if we had a diff here. >> Um, >> well, again, any new growth that was occurring I I think one difference
>> Well, again, any new growth that occurred after that district was formed would be would be um generated toward um you know, paying the sewer back um
that area. And again, I think that's a a I would love to see the whole line connected up to up to Mansfield to the uh to the shopping center. So, I think it's the same thing. It's a question of I guess the I'm not sure I'm answering your question, but as I look at it, I go
is if we, you know, we have limited resources, where do we think the biggest bang for the buck is? And it could be that area. I myself think it's, and I may be fixated on, but I think it's that connection to the middle school. Um, but same, it's still the same concept. If
you put it there, if you extended it and you had a diff there, you could you would see properties start to redevelop. Now, some of those properties are zoned residential. Uh but from the the Pern property north that's all zone
village commercial and there are a lot of commercial properties there already and some vacant property that you know septic systems have problems there you're right near the reservoir the water tables are high so it could really open up some of that land
>> Mr. I think the downside on the zero Mansfield property is as a town we probably should have been more um focus on what was going on over there. And you talk about development of property.
That's probably one of the few commercial properties we might have had a chance to do something with. There's a lot of wetlands in there. I understand that. But with the proper sewage and the proper, you know, uh, process, I believe that that probably could have been
utilized for other something other than housing, which is what's going in now. And it's unfortunate that we we lost that. >> Well, the other aspect of with the diff that we would be looking at and and this is something we can still do in house
is look at our zoning. Um I think we need to I know some of my uh board members we really want to look at that because if if the goal say for example in that area was to say we just want it as commercial but not all residential.
Now, right now the laws, the zoning says you can do that, but down the road as part of this, we we really need to take a look at the zoning, take a look at the uses and go, can we live with that if this comes in? Cuz we might go, we don't want to. So, there are things
we could do with zoning like create a new zoning district or say put footnotes in the use table to say you can do this only if there's sewer, you know, something like that. But to look at an area and try to determine what its
essence is and what we would like to see there because yeah I agree we you know we right now with village commercial extending so far down at 123 you know you could see theoretically I mean the possibility of a lot of
residential because it's it's allowed there by special permit or some multif family is anyway. So >> Mr. here if I'm so I got to I got to get back on track here with my mind. So the the funding of this would it be through the sewer and water enterprise account
at the town meeting >> it would be through a a bond or some other mechanism but it wouldn't be out of the enterprise fund. >> It would not right. Okay. So, for the Serpentid expense, I'm referring to >> Oh, I'm sorry. For Serpentid, um,
>> the the funding source hasn't been identified. Um, might be free cash. If if this is something We're not asking for any action tonight. Just wanted to get your this the board's take on it. >> Okay. And h have you reviewed this um concept with the water and sewer
commission because this is really if it wasn't for SER and the econom economic development component, this would really be in their camp, right? Uh I I have not yet >> okay >> with I've again I was talking with the water and sewer superintendent but
didn't get to their board. Yeah, I completely agree that um sewer is the mechanism for more growth. I'm trying to understand Bob made a point that so so if you it's it is a um
a zone, right? An overlay zone. It sounds like >> it >> it's a district but in my world when you say overlay zoning overlay. >> So it's a district. So we we on the front end we define the district. Serped will probably help us identify whether it's the housing authority to the middle
school or even all the way down to Chartley because there are a lot of businesses down there as well. Whatever that district is as development occurs, somebody will determine the increase in property values and personal property and such if it's a business and then a
portion of that growth will be utilized through the diff to pay off the bond. Is that how you're referring to? So to Bob's point, how does that differ from just running it through h how does a general water and sewer payer in town,
how are they how do they benefit? How are they excluded from the cost of that what's happening in that district? Because the way the mechanism as I understand it and I'm I haven't done one of these before is that
by contributing back the new growth I think that changes the funding mechanism for it but I I I I can certainly explore that make sure I understand that better. I think what's h what's happening here is you're taking
new growth money that's coming to us that would normally go into the general fund to be utilized for other expenses. >> On the other side of that you have a sewer line that is could be paid for through uh betterments or through sew
fees or and all the other stuff. So in this case what we're happening is instead of the sewer line using their capital account and trying to fund the system through the sewer water sewer >> department enterprise account. >> Mhm.
>> It's coming the money's coming out of the >> available free cash because it's part of our new growth number. So we're actually taking town money to pay for this and that could be dangerous in my opinion. Um >> and that's what >> could be dangerous.
>> Okay. Because there's two things >> that I think we need to do before we even talk about putting shore down West Main, and that's to reszone it >> and make sure we're moving in the right direction. Because what I don't want to see happen is we redesign and re re uh
redo West Main and we put a sewer line in and then suddenly we've got fourstory housing projects going up all the way down West Main Street. That's not in our best interest. our best interest is to figure out a way to make that property desirable for light industry industry or
retail or whatever commercial process we can come up with. >> Sure. >> Um so if we do decide to do West Main, the first thing we need to do is look at the zoning. I know most of it's in the village commercial. >> Um and that puts it in a whole different category where you >> you've got village commercial on the on
the first floor and you've got housing above it. So, we have to be very careful about how we approach it if we're concerned about new growth. >> Sure. And village commercial allows a lot. I think of it as the the jumboire of zoning. Th you've had Louisiana food,
but uh throw everything in the pot and that's kind of what this is. that allows it's our most permissive district which is a good thing but it's if you're targeting like you're talking about then that needs to be more we need to be more strategic than what village commercial
has >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes sir. >> So there are a couple of things I have questions about. Um one I agree with uh Mr. Kimble and the planner when they say that zoning is
much more important than this diff program right now because if we determine that West Main Street is the place to put it, we don't have to look any further than look at the developments that are before the planning board right now to know
that if there is a sewer line that goes by someplace, a developer is going to come in and pay whatever he needs to pay and he's going to put up whatever building he has to to get the most bang for his buck out of it. And for that s make, it's probably going to be more of these fourstory buildings in our village
commercial area. And I'm not sure that's the route that we should be looking at going. So I think before we I am all for building infrastructure and I've said that since day one >> I started campaigning. But
we have to be logical about it. So that if we're saying we want to have infrastructure to support uh commercial growth, we have to zone it for commercial growth. We can't allow housing to be put all through an area
where we would like to see commercial growth. We need to zone it that way. Um, some of the questions I have about these this diff program is we keep talking about it like it's different money and you say it's not coming from the
taxpayer. Every taxpayer is coming out of that zone. Well, if not for identifying that zone, it would go into the general fund and it would benefit the whole town to have that money in there in the general fund and they could use it. we could use it wherever we
thought would be best used as opposed to just saying that that money is goes to whatever project we're going to put it towards. We may be in a financial situation where we need that money to uh keep Charlie fire station open or to
have another teacher or to buy another cruiser, but if we have that money locked up someplace that we can't use it, then it's not doing us any good except for in that one area. So, those are some of my concerns I have about the
diff program. >> So, Paul, one quick question. It just dawned on me. Are there any grants that are conditional upon having this program in place >> that are conditional upon having uh the diff,
>> but yeah, usually that you know the carrot's out there and it's some sort of component that we need to comply with to be able to >> No, there there isn't anything that we wouldn't be eligible for because we don't have it. Okay. It could having a diff might make a some grant make us
more eligible because they'll see that we have a funding mechanism. But I I don't know quite how that works. But in the literature that was brought up, but but no, there's nothing that it's not like Mass Works is going to say you don't have a diff, we're not funding
you. >> Oh, well that that's what I was getting at. you know, does this line up any any you know, grants that that could possibly be available, but if there's >> No, I I wouldn't say it does. >> Not aware that it does. >> Got the chair.
>> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And you know, I know we've been talking about this quite a bit and you know, some of the paranoia I have and I know you you're aware of it because I've been talking around town, but people have been questioning why these four build story buildings are going up.
where you know what we have the new surge and the village uh center core district which we adopted back in 20 um was um in the middle of the pandemic and we're now seeing the fruits of that
waiver. So, what I'm going to suggest to the board uh while I'm thinking of it is that we ask that the planning board come to our next meeting um a joint meeting with the pling board so we can talk about the village center core district so people understand what's going on now
when they're coming up and asking us about these four buildings fourtory structures going up where honeydew donus is and where um the old rich property is and more importantly in the actual center of town at number and which is finally the guy is finally in there and
he's able to build something but through the actions of the historic district commission and through the cooperation of Mr. Pernoch the building has been reduced to two stories. So um it would have been a fourtory building which would have been above the structure of
the church that's there now. So, I think it's important that we we sit down with the pling board, and this just brings it up because if we do West Main Street the same way we did the center with the village core, we're going to have the same problem. We're going to have all these
so-called commercial buildings on the first floor, which now I'm finding out aren't the entire first floor. It's only a portion of the first floor, and then we're allowing parking underneath it beyond that. It's not working out the way I think it was going to work out. So, Mr. um
town manager, if Mr. Go, if you wouldn't mind uh setting up you, Mr. Chairman, a joint meeting between the two groups, we need to talk about this because I think the people in town now have are starting to ask questions about what's going on there. And when they have to understand that in the middle of a pandemic and a
ball field, we voted for this. And I think they have to understand the magn magnitude of what we did where some of us tried not to but we we did it and we have to be be clear on what's happening. So um if we can do that appreciate it but if we don't do
something like that on West Main from housing down to this the high to the middle school. Uh I don't want to create another BCC there. I want to make sure we have commercial property. Sure. If >> if we're going to do this, it's got to be commercial property.
>> Yeah. No. And and right, understood. Um, Village Center Core was was a different animal. Um, you know, I don't think anyone's looking at extending that anywhere. Uh, but we can look at it. One one point of clarification or correction, the
original approval of 10 West Main was three stories, not four. >> Okay. >> So, it went from three down to two. So, >> he he had he had discussed the possibility of going four. He went to three before he came to the planning board and then he went down to two. Um,
but we can look right up over the hill at at Honeydew Donut. >> Yep. >> There's going to be a four fourstory building there. And by the way, this three-story building that he's proposing at number 10, if it was three stories, was going to be uh 28 28 condos with
parking underneath it on less than an acre of land. >> 18. >> That shows the density of what we're talking about. It it was 18 at at 10 West Main. >> Yeah, >> it was 18 units. >> Sorry, it's 18. >> 18. Now it's 12. >> Now it's 12. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The chair. So, this has been a long
discussion here, but this is good. Um, so just in general, in my opinion, if it we if this does come to a vote at one of our future meetings, the funding source does matter a lot to me. If if you can convince the water and sewer commission to fund this through their own enterprise account, I'm okay with it. I
have no problem having Serp put a plan together, a study for the future. I do believe that the zoning is more important than than the diff. Um, but if they want to self-fund it, I'm cool with that. I I don't agree with using free cash because it was just a couple years
ago that we the library budget was short $17,000 and we just came up with 17,000 to keep them to get them back to being fully accredited after 10 years of losing their accreditation. So they didn't qualify for grants all that time. Um and it was just a matter of I think 4
hours a week or something of additional hours of operation and it was only 17. So we talk 50,000 that could come down to a decision like that. So, if it's going to come from the general fund in free cash, I I don't support it. If you can convince Water and Sewer to pay for it themselves, selfund it, um I'm okay
with that because I don't think it'll harm us going forward. But to everybody's point, if even if it's village commercial that we're talking about, I don't know how far a village commercial extends. I if if this diff
in sewer extension is going to promote more residential development and not more commercial development then we're not getting what we want out of this. Right. So we have to be that's where the zoning comes into place. We have to kind of be careful. >> Right. >> Mr. Chairman, if I hear him this way
too, if we if we adopt a diff, it's taking money from our free cash from our new growth. >> Well, yeah. Potential. >> Yes. Right. >> From the new growth. So, why even talk about a diff? Why not just go to the conventional route of looking
at what we need, make sure we're zoning properly, and make sure everything is done properly. Because if we do adopt a diff the way I think it's been explained to us, a portion of the new growth will come out of that. It doesn't come out of the enterprise account. It doesn't come out of the water sewer accounts. So we
have to be careful about that >> and restricts our use of that money and other means like Roger had mentioned. The only reason I say I'd be okay with it is if you can convince the water and sewer then I'm not going to argue with them because it's their money. But um but yeah, I agree the limit. You take
that new growth revenue and now you earmark it and that removes us from the decision process and the finance committee for utilizing it maybe in in better ways. So >> yeah, one one last point. Sorry through through chair. Um I agree with much of
what was said here today. I'm not afraid of housing, but um I agree with much of what was said here tonight. My only concern is I don't understand the benefit because the growth won't happen until the sewer lines are in. So, we've got to pay for that upfront and we won't
realize the growth in those established areas for a long time cuz you're assuming that there's turnover or something that's going to generate that growth, right? So I I guess I'm not I'm not realizing or seeing how that's going to benefit the taxpayers because we
still have to pay for that septic system in the meantime. Right. >> Sure. >> Until that growth occurs which was going to come at some point later. >> So that's a a great question or comment. Um you know we realize it was the sewer line. When was that completed over on
West M? Was it 20? It was 2020 wasn't it? Or 21. It would have been >> I think it was before that >> it >> I was here when so maybe 19. So my point is >> it's it was constructed around 19 or 20
and here we are and you know well 26 but 2025 now all of a sudden we started seeing proposals there. >> So does mean that will happen in the future? You know we don't know. I mean, we no one has a crystal ball to see what our economy is going to look like, but
um we um you know, one of the things I'm focusing on now as I'm learning more about the economic development role is reaching out to realtors, developers, and pointing out these properties that are on sewer in the well, Mansfield A
and West Main Street because it, you know, maybe if I done a better job 5 years ago of promoting it to people. We might have seen more happening, but things will take time. But 5 years, it, you know, when we look at where we were in 2020,
>> it's a short time frame. >> It's a short time frame, but again, if we don't do anything, we're probably going to continue to see what we have. We're It's an investment. >> Yeah. >> Sewer is really the the investment and it's a financial one that has the
ability to give us a return. And is it a risk? Sure. like any investment it is, but you can you know you're you are we by putting sewer out we're we're telling we're telling the community we're ready to see this get developed. I mean unless obviously when you're talking about
places like Wakonnet that or like you know want to or reservoir that was that was for environmental reasons but if we're putting it out on Mansfield or or uh West Main Street or wherever else on
Main Roads we're we are sending a message that things are changing and that we're investing in this area and we'd like to see some areas get redeveloped cuz developers will go Okay, my cap my my capacity just went or my development
capacity just went way up because I'm getting off of sewer with all the restrictions you have with that. That's going to be an important thing. So, as a town, we need to we need to we need to do I need to do a better job of
promoting. So, hoping that that happens with our existing system and that can help give us momentum and get support for extending it elsewhere. Yeah, there's no doubt we need it. Yeah, >> I think there's some like a couple members have already mentioned, I think
there's some zoning housekeeping that needs to be uh done first. Um what that looks like in its finality to be determined, but I think the main corridors uh are pretty understood. And then you know with that being said that
you know that will streamline um probably a vehicle for a lot more uh pre-planning >> Mhm. >> with potential developers with expectations
of partnering with them. Uh they're more PPP type of type of things. uh developers know that there's there's an expectation that they're going to contribute to update some infrastructure to get their project in. And I think
there's a lot of pre-planning that we may need to uh engage in uh some way, shape, or form. Uh more than happy to share with the town manager how some of the communities that I do it in, how they do it. And um it it streamlines a
project a lot uh it it's conducive to a lot um faster and expectation of who's going to cover the cost of some of these uh items moving forward. And I think a lot of people will be surprised at how much developers are willing to
contribute to updates to infrastructure, whether it be power, water, sewer, what have you, roads, intersections, lighting, all kinds of things. Um that uh I think if we put a better plan of that together that you know I think you
know we can't do the cop before the horse. We need to get the zoning straightened out. um you know what whatever whatever it whatever it's called you know recotification what whatever it needs to be started at some level and once that's cleaned up um the
developers will be in line uh in in as long as the zoning is cleaned up to what the town wants and I think you know loud and clear uh I hear it on the street as well it's a lot of uh housing is housing uh but a lot of people are more
conducive to the commercial component, albeit the the residential buildings are very highly um valued. >> They fill up. >> They bring a a very high tax revenue. Um I mean, you can tell by
>> East Main Street. What is that? Two uh 270 274 East Main. >> You know, the new one up next to Roach Brothers. I mean, I think the taxable value on those things, it's just mind-blowing what they bring in tax revenue because of the valuation of them, right?
>> But, you know, air to the ground, the residents don't want >> apartments. They just don't want them. So, we have to do what the residents want and we have to listen to them. And I think the zoning is the natural next step. We got to clean that up first and then move forward with and initiate
other programs like that like we spoke about before too with the you know the developer contributing to a fund uh you know on their own never mind paying for projects themselves >> right but it needs to align with having sewer and making sure too that the water
and electric and all the other utilities are are available um but >> sewer yeah I mean I think that's It's a smart move for us to be examining changes to the bylaw in those areas that
we're looking to extend infrastructure to or the sewer to it. It's a smart move. >> And Mr. Chair, I just I know we want to wrap this up, but the >> um sewer is good. We all agree on that. The more sewer the better as long as we
have capacity in the plant. Um this diff is a is a finance finance plan. So that that's kind of what we're should be debating mainly, right, is the diff. Um I'm not completely sold on it, but I want to ask you the 47 Elm Street, let's say that that was part of the diff
district. Would anything had been different there? Would like the residents on up and down Elm Street, they didn't want to tie in and have to pay the veteran fees and that kind of thing. Would if that wasn't a a diff, would anything have been different with 47 Elm? I mean based on the what we
heard I don't think so because when we first proposed it they didn't want to pay a betterment and then when we did when they the second vote I mean what I was hearing from the audience was they didn't want the project and I don't think this changes any of that although
one thing we could I it's a technical thing but the the diff itself could even though if we're looking at funding on West Main Street we could for uh areas for the taxation aspects. We could
actually bring in 47 Elm and the DOT property to help any new growth fund the infrastructure on let's say the West Main Street, even though they're not part of the improvement, the state does allow you to
pick properties outside of the district to for where you can get new growth. So, uh, >> do that now, >> right? I mean, you can you would get the new growth anyway, but it's the new growth could be tied to projects or
properties outside of the district itself. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I get it. I just it >> so the diff wouldn't really help us. >> Over and above. Do you me as you mentioned we we we we've we're getting to the end of economic development with the lack of land or whatever the case is or maybe lack of sewer infrastructure
but um I guess what I'm struggling with is how is diff going to going to uh change that. It's just a funding source that's going to reallocate the the funding to pay off the debt. I don't >> but that's >> and how it's going to help unlock the
our our growth uh uh uh obstacles. >> Yep. But >> so I I didn't hear the last part. >> So you you were talking earlier on how we have had all infrastructure growth on Leonard Street and up and down on the other um highway access and areas where
we have sewer. We need to invest in more sewer. I guess my question is how's this diff program going to unlock more economic development opportunity? It's just a funding source. Doesn't mean we can put any more sewer in. It doesn't give us any more funds to do that. It's
just how we pay for it later. >> It It's not even a funding source. All it is is reallocation classifying from one bucket to another. >> Yeah, that's right. Thank you for that. >> It's a Christmas club. >> Well, in in light of uh moving on, if we
could Paul, thank you very much for the presentation. Um, you know, definitely the board will take it under advisement. Um, and maybe I'd like to see uh Justin engaged um to an extent being that's it's it's under his umbrella uh now as well as
yours, Paul. >> Um, and I think maybe he has some recommendations and ideas too. >> Yeah, we I've talked briefly about it and we're going to just continue to work through this andever the recommendation to get sewer on
whatever the top priority area will be. >> Yeah. No, we're in agreement. And I'd like to see what Justin's thoughts are as well once he gets more familiar with our system >> and see what his recommendations might be. >> Perfect. Sounds good. Thank you, Paul. >> Thank you, Paul. >> Thank you, Paul. >> Thank you, Paul.
>> Thanks, Paul. >> All right. Uh, we have more of the town manager report. >> Uh, just just briefly, we are hitting the ground hard. We're preparing
for budget season, internal coordination, process stabilization. We're putting systems in place, regular department head meetings, regular uh key operational department head meetings. Uh a lot more coordination, communication,
sharing personnel, sharing equipment is is happening. We're developing the the budget um proposals. In fact, that's where most of my time is going. on meeting marathon meetings with department heads trying to
produce the most effective efficient uh budget for next year as well as planning for town meeting. Um so keep the town meeting proposals coming and uh stay tuned on a time to to drop in to meet
our new IT director and uh assistant town manager who both start on the same day, February 2nd. Thank you >> through through your chair. >> Yes. >> Just one thing, Mark, as you're preparing the budget for the spring town meeting. Uh, one thing I would love to see, which we've not been able to get in
prior years, is understand uh, in this year's budget for each line item, each department, what the headcount is, and then in the proposed budget for the future year, what the proposed headcount is. I want to see where there's changes, either a reduction or an addition to as
a comparison um, for the budget. That' be great. We did include that on the department uh submissions this year for the first time. >> Beautiful. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh thank you, Mr. Town Manager. Mr.
>> Chair, if I may ask um of you, >> this is probably a good time to to have a standing um agenda article on I mean agenda on our on our select board meetings um budget discussion so that we can start talking about the budget every meeting and have it on the agenda. So
the people in town see that we're, you know, it's top of mind and whatever the town manager may have that he can share with us that that's fine. But I know we did that on the school committee. You know, this time of year we would have a a standing agenda item, a budget
discussion, and that way the people know that it's going to come up because it's on the agenda. like we can talk about it in town manager report, but the general public doesn't know that we're going to talk about the budget in the town manager report every meeting. I think at
this point for the next four months, it's probably a good idea to have it on the agenda. It's my opinion. >> I um thank you for that, Kevin. I um I would leave that entirely up to the town manager what he would be interested in,
you know, any progress on it. Um the only thing I have a concern with is you know fincom that's kind of their thing to do. Uh so maybe just updates if if that's what you're asking from the town manager. >> So high level things. Um anyone who read
the Sun Chronicle today um saw those big article about Mansfield um and they already have a good uh vision of what their budget's going to look like and how bad it's going to be. And it all starts with um the healthcare increases and then the retiree um uh increases too
for their healthcare and then it kind of trickles down from there and they already have a handle on what their town budget would be for level services and their schools. So health insurance they're looking at like an 18% increase for uh current employees. So they they have a general concept.
Um and then you have the cherry sheets. I think they're still called that the revenue estimates at the at the state level. I don't know when they come out, but a lot of times the select board talks about these things even though the finance committee does the detailed work. I
>> Mr. Chairman, I I I agree to a certain extent. I think the town manager should give us an update. I I'm concerned about putting it on the agenda, but I don't want people to come into a meeting and think we're going to sit here and talk about budgets every week. If the town manager wants to give us an update on,
you know, just so you know, this week we ran into this, uh, it's going to cost us another million dollars for health insurance. We're trying to figure out how blah blah blah blah. You know, that's fine, but I don't know that I want to have it as an a standing agenda item where people think we're going to be talking about it, want to come in. I
don't want 50 people here in front of me think we're going to talk about something and then we skip over it. So, I think it'd be more important to have the manager decide >> what he needs to keep us up to speed with. And I agree to a certain extent that I don't want to be blindsided either. At the end of the scenario, I
don't want suddenly to have a package in front of me that says, "Hey, by the way, this is what's happening. Why weren't we informed of it?" So, that's that's the other side of it. >> Mr. Chair. >> Yep. Um maybe the town manager could just put a bullet point on town manager's report and till after budget
season just put an update of budget. >> And where I'm coming from, Mr. chair is I'm looking at it from the people. I don't care if there are 50 people here. If come May, everybody it knows what to expect with the budget situation because it's been
on our agenda every meeting and they've come and heard small little tidbits of updates in May. At least they know that we've been talking about it for 4 months. if we don't have it on the agenda, people are not going to show up or watch and then they're going to be surprised when we have cuts and such.
Um, you know, Mansfield article, Mansfield's article was was good because the people in Mansfield know what to expect. They're asking for another override. Obviously, we know not we can't do that. But they went for one last year. It failed. They're asking for another one this year. There was going
to be no surprises at the Mtown meeting in Mansfield. But I'm afraid that if we don't keep it as an ongoing topic, there may be surprises in Norton at the Mattown meeting. >> I I don't disagree, Kevin, but I do I do think you know, adding it as as you
know, Mr. Kimell alluded to as well as you know, in Mr. Mosan recommended. I do believe um you know maybe under town manager's report an update from the town manager uh on you know potential deficiencies any any updates that you
deem relevant for us uh to try and affect what Mr. O'Neal is trying to avoid come May. >> Well, we'll know. I don't mean to drop you, but so the five of us will know. That's great. and anybody on Zoom and anybody in the audience will know, which
is zero. My my point is there's got to be more than just the five of us that know what's going on. And the only way you can encourage um participation in and uh you know, people watching this and following it is to have it on the agenda.
As as painful as that may be to have 50 people sitting here and asking questions, it won't be an open meeting. >> That wasn't that wasn't what I was suggesting. And what I was suggesting is it's on the agenda. The town manager hasn't have doesn't have anything new or an update of any sort. They've come to talk about the budget and we have
nothing. We have we're going to skip over it because we don't have anything to talk about. I think it's just cleaner to have the town manager keep us informed as things happen. >> I agree. >> Yeah. I I would say as a solution, maybe not necessarily put it automatically in
every single agenda going forward, but Mark is hearing us that we're it's top of mind for us. So if there's anything that needs to be reported, you'll know in advance of the agenda to add something on there for that discussion, right? So we'll so it'll be in the agenda so people know and also we'll
we'll have some discussion about whatever top level stuff that you can share with us. >> It's it's always on the top of my mind. Yeah. I mean, I can give you a brief report now if if you like in a word. It's tight. >> Yeah. >> Um, we're reing in expenses and trying
not to have layoffs to the best of our ability. Um, we there's a lot lot lot of moving parts. The charter does require regular updates as budget season progresses. So, over the next week or two, I have a goal to get this the board
a schedule of of meetings. When the preliminary budget's going to come out, when the the final budget's going to come out, it's going to involve uh when the finance committee hearings are, um you know, multiple hearings, at least three or four. I'll get with the chair,
come to you with a a schedule of how the progression will be. I agree there should be no surprises come town meeting and you know leading up to it. Um every day I mean for example tomorrow I have a meeting with the health care group and
we're going to find out what the projected increase is in health insurance one of the biggest budget drivers. Um we're looking at 10 to 12%. We'll have a more firm number tomorrow. Um, every day we're receiving updates from the state, from state aid. Um, that
we're going to track the budget as it progresses, from the governor's proposal, which I understand is about a week away, as it moves through the House, through the Senate. We're negotiating eight collective bargaining agreements in addition to
uh a lot of moving parts. There's over a thousand line items, and I'm not trying to do a cut and paste like Mansfield did. I'm digging deep into every dollar and finding where to best allocate those. So, um that's where we are on a
high level. Uh happy to take any questions during town manager report. Maybe adding a bullet point um is a good idea, but even if it's not there, feel free to ask. And anyone can come and you know come to my office anytime. happy to
take input from board members, from public. >> So, thank you, Mr. Town Manager. I think if you um you know, can uh if there's anything relevant during during your town manager's report, um if you can uh
you know, present that and elaborate on that, explain it to the board. Uh not as a discussion item, but just as a information uh information point for the board and any >> Sure. residents any you know members of the community watching.
>> Sure. And it might start high level as we're baking the cake. We don't want to show the finished product while the process is ongoing and have to walk back any any numbers. So we are, you know, sharing information as it's solidified.
>> I I think the board trust your judgment in what to uh present in uh you know in any in any kind of detail whatsoever. So, um, I'll leave that up to your discretion. Uh, but I I I I do think any
information that you think is relevant pertaining to the budget, um, you know, to be conveyed to us at during your town manager's report will be, I think, appreciated by the board. And if I could add to that, an example, and
Mr. Neil and I will probably bring you up to speed on it real fast, but we have a um 98 or$9 million debt exclusion we may be looking at come springtime and it's involves the middle school roof. So
that's going to have an impact on the finances for a while too. So as we get into the season, we need to talk more about this stuff publicly so people are aware of it. But we're uh we're at a point now where the building committee current building committee is looking at
this thing. You know, we've got to replace the roof and the only way we can't take it from available funds. We don't have the revenue to do it. So, it has to come from somewhere. So, it's going to be a debt exclusion. And I know people out there have to start hearing it more. So, they're not hearing it in
our permanent building committee because there's nobody there. And the people that are watching at home, there might be one or two that are doing that. So, we need to start talking more about those kind of things also because that that debt exclusion uh will have to be
paid from our available funds and it's going to have an impact on our future budgets. So, as we get more information, uh Kevin and I will bring everyone up to speed. We're still pretty much up in the air on what's going on with it, but we don't have any solid numbers to to deal with,
but it is going to be a major major construction project that we're going to have to either decide to fund or we're going to have to decide how we're going to repair the roofs for the next few years, which is already in pretty bad shape, keeping in mind that the building is around 30 years old now. So, the roof
has to be replaced. So, um but that kind of conversation has should be held as much as possible. Yeah, Mr. Chair, to that point, I think the articles for the town meeting have to be um at least placeholders by February 10th, I believe, which is
probably a little after our next meeting. So, you know where we're coming from with the building committee. Obviously, it's a board decision, but you have the April 11th election. The way to make sure that it doesn't impact our budget is through a debt
exclusion um override. So that would have to happen on April 11th and then the then the May time meeting allocate the money. Um so I know none of us want to talk about this but it but it has to be brought up because if we don't everything as far as
the middle school roof and the timeline with the MSBA, they already gave us an extension. If we don't tackle it this budget season, it's not going to happen. And that that like Mr. Kimble mentioned is a 30-y old roof. Regardless of the history, it's still a 30-y old roof, and
it's a very complicated, large, complex roof. The amount that we'll ask for is up to. Hopefully, it'll won't come in anywhere near that. And we're getting 55% reimbursement, which by the way, if we don't address it now, that reimbursement is not guaranteed if we
decide to do it in two or three years. So, um they'll go to another school district. Uh next one's in line. So, we I I think it's up to you, Mr. chair how we handle that on future agenda items uh for these meetings, but we can't uh ignore it.
>> Okay. Thank you. Noted, >> Mr. Town Manager. >> Um just on the roof, it'll probably require a vote from the select board to put that on April's ballot. >> Yes, that's why I brought it up. >> Yeah. Right. Yep. >> And unfortunately, if we want to get the
55% reimbursement, which is still up in the air, but right as of right now, we're going to get it. We have to take two steps immediately to make that happen. First step is the April 8th election. >> 11th, I'm sorry, April 11th election.
And then the May town meeting is the second step. Those are the two steps that we have to do for to to approve a debt exclusion uh for next year. We're not going to have the roof repaired this summer. It's not going to be we're not going to be ready to do so. So, it's they're looking
at doing the repairs in u the summer of 27 and they do it the repairs when there's nobody in school obviously for obvious reasons. We don't want even get hurt either. So, uh, just so people know that we're going to be we've got to take those two steps in order to make it all
happen, including the ballot and then the town meeting. >> And right now, we're at a pause. We had our meeting last night, so just so everybody here knows, we there's nothing more we can do. Um, Dr. O'Neal gave us an update on the um short-term repairs that they've been making um to get
through the next couple of winters. They're they're done there. she's going to be looking for financing reimbursement through the fincom, but um and then they pay for the feasibility study already. So, they have all of the information available to present to the town um for you know for
um I guess the proposal or solicitation of approval at the uh town meeting and for the debt exclusion for the election. So, they have everything ready for that. We we Bob and I have our hands tied um between now and April and May. There's
nothing else we can do in our meetings around the middle school roof um because we don't have the funding to move forward. Even the architects can't do any further design work until we have the you know a larger amount of funding. And so we're and then once if the money is approved and we're moving forward and
everything is a go, then they have some design development work and architectural um you know uh construction documents they have to work on and they go out to bid. All of that happens in the fall and the winter and like Mr. Kimble mentioned the actual project uh work will happen next uh
summer. So there's a timeline already established. We just need this board's uh support in order to put it in front of the town. So, who's going to present that? >> PBC school committee. >> The school committee is going to Yeah,
Dr. O'Neal offered to present it to the fincom to us. Um, >> so she needs to request to get on the uh agenda >> for the ballot. >> For the B. Yeah, that's right. >> For our agenda, >> she'll she was going to ask be put on our agenda as well. Y >> Okay. she's taken that on and
but we just I think we're all waiting for this board to make the decision to put it on the April ballot and the May town meeting. So obviously if that if we don't do that then there's no point in having any presentations.
>> Well I think the next meeting may perhaps we could get >> well well that yeah that's my point of my question. And we let her have her come in to us. >> Have her give her the pres presentation that she gave us >> so you can see what the uh >> I say when's the deadline for the ballot. >> Um article >> we got time.
>> I understand it's generally 35 days before the election. >> Okay. >> March of we have time. >> Oh yeah. >> Make sure we weren't. >> Oh yeah. No, we have plenty of time. >> Okay. >> So maybe in the next meeting reach out to her, Miss Town Manager, and ask if she can give a a quick presentation.
>> Yeah. I'm in regular communication with uh Dr. O'Neal, so I'll see when it's best for her if that's next meeting or the you know the meeting after. But >> perfect. >> We will we will not forget about the school roof. >> Well, I don't want to miss our our deadline too of uh February 10th is it
to to get articles on the town meeting >> or we can put a place. >> I think a placeholder should be put that'll be fine >> regardless. Gotcha. Good. Good. Good. >> That's just for the placeholder. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Noted. Uh thank you Mr. Towner. Thank you, Kevin. Um,
moving on. Warrants. Can we get some motions, Mr. Chairman? There's no questions. >> Make a motion we approve in English warrant AP26-28 dated January 8th, 2026. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I, >> Chairman, I make a motion we approve
payroll warrant PR26-14 ending January 3rd, 2026. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. I, >> Mr. Chairman, make a motion we approve the invoice warrant AP26-29 dated January 15, 2026.
>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I >> Okay, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> Uh, while we're talking about these warrants, um, we all noticed how thick the, uh, stack of, uh, warrants would be
um, to have them printed up. in the future, can we just get the warrants emailed to us and maybe if we want one copy to bring to the um meeting if we need to look through it while we're here? >> I did bring one copy and yeah, I think that's a great idea.
>> So, that would be my suggestion. I don't know if that's uh something that we need to just agree on so that we're not killing a tree every meeting for >> two. Have you seen the the finance committee
packets that have historically gone out? >> So that would be my suggestion. Mr. Chair, >> I second. >> Third. >> Well, there we go. >> Yeah. The only one that I'd want to see printed is the budget one.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh any report in mail? Board report in mail. >> The only the only thing I have on the report is the uh again asking him for the joint meeting with the u >> planning board to talk about the village
center core district so people understand what's happening in the central town >> planning board regarding VCC. Mr. town manager. I know you already have those notes. And um also asking a representative from school, whether it be the superintendent or whatever, to
present the uh uh PBC recommendation for the roof. >> Great. >> Okay. No executive. So motion to chair. >> Yes, sir. >> Make a motion to adjurnn. >> That was fast. Roger. >> All in favor? I. >> Thank you, everyone.
>> Nice picture, y'all, too.