See, please stay here. Anthony. >> I didn't hear her, but I'll say here. >> Okay. >> Excuse. >> Here. >> Present. >> Here.
>> Here. here. >> Here uh Mr. Canella, please sit for Miss Tangura. >> Pursuant to the requirements of the open public meetings act, notice of this meeting was included in the annual
notice of regular meetings for the year 2026 as advertised in the star ledger on February 5th, 2026. Uh Herald News and the Nutly sign on November 20th, 2025 with a copy posted on the township of Nutley bulletin board. first floor town
hall. A copy of is filed in the office of the township clerk and copies are available for the general public. We will have an opportunity to review the meet the minutes from the last meeting. >> Yes. Any questions? >> Any any uh discussion? I'll enter in a
motion. >> Move it. Second. All in favor? I opposed abstensions. Thank you. Uh before we get to communications and bills, welcome back, Anthony. >> Hey, thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kazera, thanks for
saving me a seat. >> Yes, sir. You look great, A. 25 pounds, huh? >> Yeah. 25 and not an inch taller. At a boy, >> communications and bills.
>> Uh we have one bill for this evening. some necessary for attendance that preparation needed minutes paper 15 2026 which suggest approved by the board in the amount of $150 if they find it fair and reasonable >> repaid second all in favor I thank you >> I did send everybody a copy of the
communication that we had gotten from the township of Belville with respect to a subdivided property that they're seeking approval on over there it's only given to us for purposes we take no further action which is check but it's forformational purposes.
We want to communicate. >> That was King Street, right? >> Yes. >> 98 Little Street Little Street. 98 Little Street. >> That's it. >> That's it for communications. >> Okay. We have no new business. We have no resolutions. Um
more presentations. Real quick went with the um uh warehouse definitions that we approved. Mr. Mayor, has that been uh finalized yet or no? the accessory dwelling one and the >> the accessory dwelling one that was still discussed the uh the warehouse one
been approved >> at least done at the last meeting you said it just had one more read >> I think it was done >> so that one's done >> okay so it's just it's just amending it with the accessory definition that we came up with right oh great okay thank
you >> I I'll just note that the governor has an executive order that she says will increase the affordable housing in New Jersey. Just keep your eyes open. >> I by the way I am aware of that and I
did see if they >> It's very vague. >> Well, that's the whole point. It is very vague in terms of how it's going to be implemented. executive orders were stronger effective as statutes coming from the legislature which uh
hopefully they don't come out much more clear but let's let let's face it it's a national issue affordable housing not surprising that government thinks it's a good idea be a good idea kind of an idea that's the problem any of we'll see what
happens from there but I did see that uh we came up with that How long ago was that? >> This week. >> Yeah, couple days ago. >> Okay. So, might maybe the next uh ordinance or
uh recommendation from the planning board might be the uh uh accessory dwelling uh definition that we sent up. That might be uh that might help us out. Okay. Uh we are uh continuing our uh
hearing for 530 Franklin Avenue and we are adjourning it to May 20th. Uh that's correct. I have not heard from the applicants council at this point as to whether that's going to 20th. I expect I will hear whatever communication I get
on this. >> So no updated plans. Not sure there will be whatever is going to happen for the given notice. I do have uh you'll be given notice of whatever the applicant's decision is.
>> Okay. Well, I should have asked Dave about that today. I was on the phone. Okay. So, we're going to our workshop meeting. So, I figured since we had some time at at our last meeting, so at our last joint meeting, um, a lot of the stuff that the zoning board brought up
was stuff that they brought up a year ago. So, I said I figured since we had at least this me, excuse me, at least this meeting, if not maybe the next meeting. I have redistributed the stuff that they sent, I made out some notes and I also sent them out as well. and I figured we could just take a look at
what they they sent to us and maybe we could pick a specific item to focus on over the next couple of workshops. Um so just let me give you a quick synopsis of my conversation with um Dave Barry today. So the item number one on page one regarding the drainage, we thought
it was the be the best idea to just let um Penoni and Dave and South get together and come up with what they think might be a solution for an issue uh storm water management in small
missions on single parent uh excuse doing is the one that says supposed to say steep slopes. It's my item number three. The guy who typed this put step slopes. Don't know what that means. Um but now what they mean by steep slopes if you
remember just picture everybody knows Margaret Avenue, right? So you're going up Margaret Avenue to Duro Park. You stop in the middle of the hill and you face north and look at a house. If you assume that the the the far front right left hand corner of the house is at zero and you go to the one on the right side
corner, it could be minus 3 ft. So what I'm thinking is let let let's let S and and Poni come up with what they think is a significant enough difference where it might warrant addressing it somehow to to to mitigate any possible drainage
issues down the street to the neighbors uh that are that are below. So, what do you think about that? Anybody? >> It's a good idea. >> Yeah, you should think about >> because um having some somebody look at
that has experience in other municipalities and stuff may help um because they be eventually become neighbor disputes and those are never easy to get in the middle of. >> No. And right now there's really nothing in our in our ordinances uh single
family, two family uh dwelling uh additions and stuff that don't require site plans. So it's a it's a difficult thing to address. You want to try to address it because you want to save the people on the bottom of the hill, but you also don't want to add an unreasonable burden to the homeowner
who's just trying to put a dish on his house. So that's a that's a that's a tough line to walk. Uh that's why I think the experts uh and people like Paul I mean Penoni who have experience in other places can come up with something that kind of makes sense. Uh and then when they when that happens you
know we we'll we'll address it at that time. Um additionally the um the garbage and recycling um situation on the multifamilies and the um uh mixuse etc.
uh we should come up with I think there's a should be a drawing in one of the things that he gave his point. Those were the packets that they left us said there was going to be a drawing but basically um the it's the last page of this it it explains how um the
requirements of the enclosures are and where they're where they're required how big they need to be. Um, but there's no real guidance as to where it needs to be, how big it needs to be, what it needs to look like. So, if you go through,
let me let me get to it real quick. Let's see. It starts on the second page. It's item number three. Uh, dumpster enclosure closure should be fully enclosed. The wall having a minimum height of six feet. Uh, the block for beauty enclosure. The dumpster
enclosure shall match the primary color of the material on the building. Uh, all garbage receptacles and recycling bins not located in the parking garages shall be enclosed in a freestanding enclosure. Uh, two fixed barrier guard posts must
be placed behind the each dumpsters. The enclosure entrance needs to be 12 ft. Uh, it goes to 22 feet if there's two containers in there. Uh, and then it just goes on to masonry closure. uh enclosures and the um uh the gate has to
be opaque. It's just basically you understand what this is but what what basically what it is now according to Dave there's really nothing on the books that show what's required sizes because if you think about it if you have a building that's got four let's say eight units in it and then you have another
building that's got 12 units in it the building with 12 units needs a bigger recycling recycling and garbage area. So the idea is is is to use take this and use it to come up with a what would make sense as far as a size requirement
compared to uh the density. Oh here it is. It's the last page has the drawings what it looks like but we've all seen that before uh now and I think it's a good idea because first of all they the the zoning board doesn't know what to do when they come across a situation like that because
there's nothing in the books. There's no guidance at all. Uh we think that would be something that we we could have Paul maybe well this basically came from Paul. U we could you know we could discuss this definition and these
requirements that he put forth here and maybe we can come up with a a solution or a suggestion. I know we've just got it now. I was lucky enough to get an hour before I got it. Uh let me read through this.
Mark, did you email that or you just handed it out tonight? >> It was emailed and hard copies were handed out tonight. Did you Didn't you get it, Anthony? He handed it. I saw him hand it to you. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's still on its way, Joe. The internet's slow here.
>> Here you go. >> Thanks. Uh, I'll go back and look. Email from you or from Barry? >> It came from Justin. >> Oh, okay. Got it. Let me see if I could find anything else.
So if I may add, you know, considering uh you know, I I deal a lot with uh dumpsters enclosures and you know, on on larger scales, but uh I think you described it well that the buildings that have
internal compactors that take care of internal wet trash eliminates having to make that dumpster that much larger. And it's only for recycling that you need it like
Anthony, can you hear us? >> Yes, I can. >> Okay. >> So, Anthony, I >> I asked a question on the drawing that we have, and it it'll probably be sent to you a little bit. The enclosure is
almost 14 1/2 ft by 23 feet with the two eight cubic yard dumpsters inside is what would you consider that small, medium, large? That's that's a fairly large site thing, Joe. But I I don't
think we use eight yard containers. They're smaller in that 20s something feet. You could fit three gates. You know, they're typically six foot wide, 7 foot wide. The gates, they're double
swing, so you'd have three three com dumpsters there as opposed to two big ones. They're harder to handle, the bigger ones. You know, you got to pull them out of the uh enclosure by hand to get them outside the gate. Typically, that's how those things get damaged.
But um on the smaller apartments that Mark was describing, they become not only used for wet trash or just recycling. >> Probably be both. >> Be both. Yeah, I would take >> be both. I I would I would definitely want your
input on the size. Um, you know, and you know, maybe the size is okay, but two two eight eight yard containers seems like those are big containers. >> Yeah, >> those are big, Joe. >> Those are big. And you can't really roll
them out by hand. They're heavy, especially when they got stuff in it. The smaller ones, and next next meeting I can share some photographs, but that 20s something feet is a large enclosure.
Even 12 foot deep is awfully deep. >> Yeah, you need a lot of space. >> Unless you're going to be that that's a lot of space there. You can fit a lot of stuff in there, you know, like mattresses and furniture and things like that that have to go out.
When people leave apartments, they tend to leave furniture behind. When do you does your company decide to use a compactor as opposed to just regular garbage cans? Is there is there a density that that war that decides that or how do you do
that? >> So everything lately is multis like you're seeing now being built Franklin A and you know threetory, fourtory, fivetory. You got to have a compactor. It's just too much uh volume. you know, Franklin Nav is you got to have an
indoor compactor for that. And we do separate recycling shoots as well. So, one's uh wet trash and one's recycling. So, a lot of times both of them are kept indoors.
>> Is there a density that warrant that that is a a maximum or a minimum where you say right now we have to have a compactor because there's 50 plus 100 plus. Is there a number or or or is it >> I don't think I've done anything that small that would say, "Hey, look, we don't need one." You know, they're
typically your twotory walk up type garden apartments, anything that starts to be multiple floors is tough for a tenant to drag a trash can or trash a bag down three
floors. By then, it usually leaks. So, plus it's an amenity thing to tell people they have indoor disposal and are not having to take their trash to a can outside. >> Wouldn't that be more of a newer type
building? >> What was that? >> Wouldn't that be more of a newer type building? Um, >> yeah, the newer ones have the >> newer ones would have that. >> Yes. So, so what about some of these older ones that we have in town where in
some places you see like at the end of Church Street they bring all the garbage cans out. You know, you may have one of these units where these apartment buildings that has 12 14 units. Um I know uh the one on the corner of Bloomfield and Center, they used to
bring all the garbage cans out. Now they um they stopped doing that and they just pllopped a dumpster in in an area and >> which one on Bloomfield there's three >> AC across from Mecca's new one uh directly AC that would both be across on
the same side as Carol's sweet shop >> the one uh on the opposite corner. >> So from Carol Sweet Shop is it south >> it's the southwest corner >> it used to be called some girl's name I don't know if it still is. Everybody puts their campaign signs on it. >> Okay, that's the one. Okay. Yeah, that's
the Southwest one. >> Exactly. >> So, they stopped putting their garbage cans out and now they just pllopped the dumpster in the back. No gate, nothing. And I know that people were getting rats >> as a result.
>> Um, so are there I know that there's rules for new construction that they have to follow. Is there anything in place for someone who is a older apartment owner that smaller that
decides that they're going to convert from the garbage cans to a dumpster? >> I I think Dave's the one to answer that. >> Okay. But no, that on we had the issue uh because we had a road problem on um
Warren Warren Street and Dave had a public >> Yeah. Dave had to go in there and >> they had to put put containers in there, put put you know enclosed them. >> Yeah. He put a retaining wall. They put a retaining wall. We had that problem
ever. Yeah. And so, but there was nothing really on the books, right? >> Dave just kind of like said, "No, you have to resolve this is and this is the way you're going to resolve it." >> Okay. >> Or else we're going to, you know, find you for, you know, >> health issues property maintenance,
>> right? >> But maybe this is an opportunity to put something on the books and >> and I don't know how we go back to redress that. Maybe the mayor has some some input considering, you know,
who who has to or who doesn't have to have the private contractor versus putting it on the street. So, >> that's another >> that's another tough line to walk because how do you tell an existing guy he's got to change things the law? very
>> you have some restaurants that they're private and and then some restaurants we you know to to tell people >> what about the as far as the use is concerned but if it's a mixed use the first floor is a is a restaurant that's a completely that's a >> that's different >> historically
they put it out at the curb it got picked up >> right so if you put it out at the curb >> and that's the way it's always been and they'll take it because they they're paying taxes they're getting garbage pickup and then if that owner, building owner, suddenly decides that they want
to change that because who's taking all those garbage cans out, you have to hire somebody two times a week to take all the garbage cans out, all the recycling cans out. >> Okay, it's a lot easier if we just throw a dumpster in and have it and have it picked up. >> That's where you fall into a little bit of
>> easier, but an increased cost. If you're a commercial entity >> uh and you we've limited by ordinance the number of can carts that any one residential entity can get or any one commercial entity can get. And I forget
the exact number. It's three or four carts for commercial entities. If they can't fit their garbage in those three or four carts per pickup, then they have to go out on their own and contract to pick it up. Otherwise, the town's not going to subsidize their business by
taking care of their garbage costs for them if they're going over and above beyond those three or four carts, whatever the order. >> Well, when did that change take place? Maybe that's why you're starting to see some of these people now throwing dumpsters in. >> Well, when we went to the new cart system,
>> right? So, we talking within the past 12 months, >> right? >> So, we put some Is there something on the books that says that? Well, if if Yeah, there's so we we passed the ordinance, but if someone's doing they're putting in their own dumpsters
now, that's that's a code issue because they're have to come and they would have to apply to the code office to make sure it's properly sealed and away. And >> I'm just wondering if they know that, you know, if that's laid out for them. So, if they're these oldtime building
owners and they were historically putting out these cans and now they're told they can only limit it to four, three or four cans and they say, "Okay, we'll go and get the dumpster." And it and on top of that, isn't there a law, the Kelly law, that says that um the town reimburse people who have dumpsters
because they're entitled to garbage pickup? >> That's for condominium associations. >> That's only condos. Okay. >> Uh for for this, I I think it's just a matter of enforcement. And so it may be worth having Dave go out and inspect.
>> So I think the only way that comes up is when there's a complaint. Okay. Because how would how would they know they switched? >> Well, no. What I'm what I'm driving at, maybe I'm not articulating it right. If we made a change and we said to them, you can no longer put out 12 cans. You're going to get these new carts and
if you don't like it, you can switch and go get a dumpster. Now, there should be a second section that says, and here are the rules for the dumpsters. You have to go to the code department. Sometimes you have to hold people's hands because they don't know. >> Yeah, I think those the the rules for
the dumpster or the code for the dumpsters have been in place could be wrong. Uh so just a matter of clients. Uh yeah, I guess it's a lot of people don't know what they don't know, >> right? >> Some some know what they knew. >> But some of these older places don't
have room for dumpsters, >> right? And that's a problem. >> Yeah. >> And they're just cramming them in, >> right? and they don't have the barricades around them and they don't right, you know. >> So, if they've got a complaint, I want to speak for Dave. Yeah. If they've got a complaint, then they would go out and
look and say, "Hey, listen. You got to enclose this. You have to do this. This is the rules. You can't just have a dumpster." >> But most of the restaurants that do have the dumpster that the carts more than one or more than two, they they do keep them pretty neat, you know. I'm not going to name any names, but
they do keep them neat, you know. And there there are exceptions because certain buildings and uh establishments pre-exist the code. So if there's no way you could fit a dumpster on your property, then we we
make exceptions for that in in the ordinance. But >> okay, >> it it's mostly limited to Franklin Avenue where there's some of those businesses have like the very narrow strip behind them room for >> and an alley this big in between them. >> Yeah. So the newer the new restaurants
if you you have to do a site plan to code then it goes to the health department gets approved where you're going to put the garbage and so the new new the new places are easily identified. >> Well the new places are not the issue. I'm saying these older places that
>> you know they would pay a kid to go bring their garbage cans out you know and then that I guess now I understand why they stopped doing that because they couldn't be lining up the street with 12 garbage cans. they're limited to the amount and you know whatever and they just decide to go get a dumpster then
but they don't know what the right procedure is because you could tell by the people that have the dumpsters that don't have the fence around them and don't have the proper coverings on them >> they have they have to be covered >> right >> the plat >> so was the zoning board bringing it up
>> I'm sorry I got >> we're talking about it now it's just I drive around I see a lot you know >> I think it's a multiaceted issue Yeah. >> But is it are they bringing it up because of new projects? Because it made it sound like, you know, planning board
be prepared to make sure that you're approving large enough refuge areas and it didn't sound like it was for existing uh restaurants. >> It's prompted by the existing >> by the by the existing. Okay.
>> Yeah. That's why they're suggesting we do something, >> right? They just want something a little bit more clear, a little a little bit easier, I guess, to understand. Um, and that's why I don't know if you got this email yet. That's why this red line regarding what regarding the dumpster
that was, excuse me, that came from Paul and Dave. Um, and they're suggesting that we add this to our current uh ordinance regarding the dumpsters and the uh enclosures. >> I think we're going to have to hear from them on that. >> Yeah. So maybe we should have hopefully
Dave will be back uh we able to show up. We had a little bit of an issue. >> Yeah. >> And uh we should be a picture anyway. Uh okay. Got to be careful. >> Yes, I did get it more. Thanks.
>> All right. Okay. So, look here for that one. Now, there was an issue about the rear fences that they brought up and um the way it was explained to me today. This is we talked about this pretty much more than anything else. If you look at
the handout I g you look at the survey you know the highlighted area is where what's considered the rear yard fence and then the rear obviously the rear uh your property line. So, if somebody wanted a 6-foot solid priv privacy
fence, if they got their immediate adjacent neighbors to sign off on it, they could just do it without a without a barren. If the neighbor next door doesn't like you and you decide you don't want to sign it, all that means is now you got to go in front of the zoning
board and get a get get the barrier. And as you mentioned before, the possibility it's all 99 times out of a 100 when it does happen, it's because they never >> right. Why give them that power? >> Why give them that power? >> Well, because you're allowed to have a sixoot fence. Let them have
>> No, you're not. >> So, what six foot? As of right now, that fence, the only way you can get that fence without a a barriian is if your neighbors agree. But if they don't agree, you got to get a barrier because the the a fence is supposed to be 4 foot
or your rear yard is I'm six foot. It's got to be 50% open. Can't be a solid fence. >> I see. >> No, but if your neighbor says it's okay, then you don't have to go, >> right? That's the way it was explained to me. So, the reason why uh it was even brought up because Johnny's Kofon told
me and Dave told me that no other town does it. Okay? In every other town, if you want to put a six foot solid fence up in your backyard, you can. So, he was suggesting the possibility of of amending our ordinance to allow that six foot solid fence there. Obviously, not not where
your house is, only where your house isn't in the back. And I I mean, so >> I was always a big guy for when I think about like big solid fences, I think of Staten Island. And every every house is in a box with a
fence. >> Mhm. >> And it just looks like crap. So I was always a big guy. A 4 foot or 6 foot 50% open. If you want privacy, plant shrubs. >> That's how I always believe. But it seems to me like there's more to it than
my my old school mentality can handle. So any input will don't laugh at me. Well, I I just think that I I think it, you know, some of it depends on where you are, right? And two, fences have
changed over the years. Like you used to for a solid fence, it used to be like the chain link fence with the slats through it, right? >> And so then the good side of that had to face out to your neighbor. >> Yeah. >> Right. Now
>> you don't see those fences too often being put up anymore. Now you you have other options. You have vinyl fencing, you have composite fencing. Um, what a a you have the same thing. A six-foot solid fence. That's a big fence. >> That's a big fence.
>> Well, you know, it's interesting because you're right. Materials have changed. The sizes of the fences have changed with people liking. Not everybody likes the fence at all. Some people insist on really having them because they want it for security, privacy, direct, keep their dogs in. >> They want to be able to just let the dog
out the backyard. So, you know, it's it's interesting because the zoning board did one of these applications earlier this year and I happened to watch it because I wanted to see how it was being handled. And uh uh new neighbors, let's call, wanted to put up the the new big six foot fence. And the
old neighbor said, "I don't want any fence. I don't like the way they look," etc. There's already enough fences in my neighborhood. And uh they wound up reaching a compromise which was to build a six-foot fence but to put some arborite on the other side of it so that the the neighbor wouldn't have to look
at the fence and they were perfectly happy with looking at the trees because they maintained a look which was probably even better than what was there before. So, you know, every one of these is pretty I think this we've we've struggled with fences over the years with the zoning board because they're
looking for less fence applications and uh the situations are all so different, very subjective of them. So, I don't know if you can come up with a one-sizefits-all solution, but having the neighbor approve it that seems to to
really encourage disputes. >> Yes, that's true. And I and Kath I think what Kathy said too is you're empowering >> you're empowering people. >> I think I think I always go to the experts when I'm struggling with a decision and I know Johnny very well
through the years that Johnny's saying he's been doing these fences for all these years and nobody does this. Nutley has this thing about sticking with this these things to be different but let's think about it and you know me and I'm going to start now. So people are paying
a lot of money for houses in this town. They're paying a lot of money for taxes. They're paying a lot of money for water. They're paying a lot of money for everything. If they save their money and they want to put a white vinyl 6oot fence so they have security and privacy in their home, why do we have to bust
their chops? >> Why? >> Aesthetics. Because it doesn't look terrible. >> No, if it looks >> Yeah, but maybe your neighbor >> in your backyard. In your backyard, >> it's ugly. I think I think they don't look good. I'm I'm with Mark with that. >> I mean, we we're living in a in a
lifetime now where people are jumping over, getting in people's yards, stealing your cars, breaking windows, going in your house, getting your keys. If you could put a little bit more security around your house, why not? I don't think they look ugly. These new vinyl fences. >> Well, it's an opinion. I mean, >> yeah, it's subjective.
>> Well, it's subjective. But my point, going back to what I said, you're paying a lot of money to live here. Do I have to listen to somebody else's opinion? like it's going to things are going to change. You know, things are going to change. I think you're not saying you're putting a change chain link fence in
your front yard. >> Well, >> you know, this is a backyard we're talking about. >> It's it's a debate. >> And you know, is it, you know, what's the right right size, right? Is it five foot with a lattice on the top for that
extra foot? Is it six foot solid? And and things are changing like things are changing also not only with security but those fences are changing. You know you don't see some of those white vinyl fences so much in the new you're seeing
a little bit thicker rugged fence that looks better than the >> Yeah. >> than the white vinyl. >> I don't know. Well, I know, but if you see some of these composite fences, they're they're pretty nice. >> Yeah. Cost a lot.
>> Yeah. And they cost a lot of money. >> You know, it's not like a it's not like a you know, your choices 20 years ago was a stockade fence, which was pretty pretty ugly, right? Or a chain link fence with slats. Then the vinyl fences
came in. But now you're seeing these composite fences and they're they're pretty they're pretty nice. But >> but what our you just see in the ordinance the same section see is that >> under most condition the rear you can put a
>> on the rear. >> That's for the rear a 6ft high fence around your backyard. >> Right. >> But it can't be solid construct. >> No. They're saying you can from the way I understand is you got to get your neighbor's approval. >> No no no. Uh fence erected along the sidelines from the main structure but
excluded >> and along uh said rear property lines with such lines shall not exceed 6 ft in height and not be of solid construction. So we're saying it you could put a sixoot fence but it can't be solid
construction. So, you know, one of those board on board or, you know, the alternating one, something you can see through on an angle, just not a solid white, you know, the solid line fence, >> but just the I believe I didn't read it, Jar, but just the rear yard. >> Yeah,
>> just the the back, not the not on the sides. >> Uh, a fence along the sidelines from the rear line of the main structure. >> Look at >> it's the sidelines. >> Look at the Look at the servant. That's what he told me. Oh
yeah. Well, that's the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's the whole backyard. Like somehow, >> but this guy must have been proposing a solid six foot fence and and that can let me see now for a stock gate fence with no open construction. So, you could put a >> this guy
>> an open this this person. I mean, it seems with a quick review, you know, it seems that we allow a 6ft tall fence around your entire property in the rear as long as it's opened. But a solid fence like Kathy's referring to, one of
those solid vinyl fences, we would allow only if your neighbors agreed to it. >> Exactly. Correct. And >> this became an issue because >> somehow when the property went lined up, the rear yard of this particular citizen bed
right there behind you. It looks like >> so he had to get consent from four people instead of three. The one guy who's a little bit of an issue. >> Yeah. There's a big difference between, you know, a six foot tall solid fence and one that's five feet with a foot of lattice or four feet. There's a big
difference in perception. >> I actually like those fences. >> If you're going to do a solid fence, five with a lattice on top, >> I think is is a better look. Um, >> so wait a minute. So, but bottom line is Dave is suggesting we get rid of this
provision regarding uh >> he he yes he's he's in favor in his mind it was very simple to look at and say it's my backyard I should be able to give us a fence any fence I want >> the money that people are paying
>> I'm not I'm not 100% on that level but I think they might >> I think we should I think we should also look into John's Right. >> Why are we being aware of
the war? >> We we should at least investigate that, right? We need to like make sure because it, you know, sometimes the way you say it may not be the actual
way it's right. So >> you got to remember he's trying to sell fences. >> One question that application was city. So the neighbor agreed to let the neighbor the one with the fence up put
on his property. >> Okay. >> They did it by the person who wanted to put The objective said, "Okay, >> as long as you put our riders on high." >> So the guy paid for the fence and the
200t or 50. Not cheap. No. >> Yeah. >> And that's an interesting question. I don't know who they don't clean on the less paper of my house. So I got to maintain. >> I'm going to buy I'm going to pay for them. What happens? God forbid. What happens
if you don't die? >> Hey, the best deal I got right 18inch or I went hold my son's truck. I loaded them up. I got $450. Planted them because I had no privacy.
my neighbor and I bought those um fertilizer sticks every year. Those things are like 10 ft tall. >> Green every Mark. May I make a comment? >> Absolutely. That's why you're here or
there. I I've worked in many towns where they can already tell you if you're going to use a 4ft fence, a five foot fence, a sixoot fence. Some towns will allow an 8ft fence. And they'll tell you what
your options are. It's not like up to you to choose a a fence company and say, "I'm going to select a six-foot white fence." Because based on the size and different locations, they tell you what your options are. And I can tell you
what towns they are. Go to Ridgewood. Go to uh several other towns in Pamis in uh in Pamis and uh Bergen County. Uh they tell you what fence you're allowed to use.
>> They do. >> Yes. >> That criteria may have to see what the conditions are required. >> Yeah. A lot of it has to do with uh the ground elevation, too. If your property
is 3 feet taller, higher than your neighbors, and you want a six foot fence, now you got 9 feet between you and your neighbor. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> So, Andy, you just me clarify for me. So, there's counts that you know of, it
sounds like you said B County where if I wanted to put up a purple fence, they they say you can't put up a purple fence. You can choose between >> these three fences. That's it. >> Yeah. If you're going to if you're going to put a sixoot fence, they tell you what type of fence it's going to be. Uh
and again, my properties are, you know, for different they're not single family homes, but uh they already tell you what type of fence you're going to be able to use. They don't tell you who you're going to get it from. Just like Joe had
mentioned, these composits are so nice. It's not just a stark white fence. And I think that's what bothers a lot of people. Then it does look like Staten Island, but uh you know they come in wood grain. They come in all different
colors and looks as well. >> So they're specific to material without color. >> Specific in material meaning whether it's wood versus uh vinyl. >> Yeah. Right. Is there is it are they specific to material? for example, a a
nice composite fence, 5 ft with five with a foot of lattice on top in in a material that they approve. But what do they also require certain colors? >> They they'll tell you whether or not depending on where you're at. If you're in a residential area, single family,
they'll tell you that you cannot use a certain color. they'll tell you that. >> But again, a lot of the properties I'm working on are much larger. And you know >> for the same reason the fences get to be
several hundred feet long which then really become an >> uh visual uh issue. But it's just a suggestion maybe if you're looking to uh
speak with Dave that maybe we could uh give a parameter of what type of fence depending on the height. >> I'll call I'm going to call John and I'll talk to Dave. See if I can I'll have Jess check the ordinances in some
other town. >> Tell him to check Ridgewood. I'm I'm sure we could find a compromise and and take out the requirement of of the the neighbor requirement or our neighbor approval. I mean, anything else on the fences?
No. Okay. Um in the packet you'll see a um a couple of pages from our zoning ordinance. topics is 70046 zoning highlight removed in error in 2023. Uh it's been recommended by David and
put that back. Uh I don't even I couldn't even tell you how it happened. I don't know how error you call that. That's more officially out still >> mean changes and they have a list of changes
and this somehow got changed their loans got published. It got published without it technically not there. Although there's only one application so far
but put it back so that >> I have if it was taken out because when when we printed up the new one you just got it got deleted some but there's no resolution from from the governing body to remove no the resolution was a
section is approved without 700-46 probably by by any terrorist or poor Having a floor level no higher than the floor level of the first story of the building and having no railing or other
member higher than 3 ft above the floor level 6 ft. Now that says you can't set that that's essentially how you know what maybe that changes some I'm just trying to think about the
homes. So like down in this section nothing shows the because the homes are old. >> Well that's one of the reasons why but you go up to like above where you have the buy levels there's a lot of those homes that have like you
come out of the kitchen which is higher up and there's I'm just thinking the houses that I sell when I go in the show those newer homes some of them on the buy levels they have coming out of their kitchen which is almost like a second story. They have
decks to it. >> So, so the lower level, for example, would have sliding doors to the backyard, >> right? >> And then, but the the middle level or the second level, whatever, it has sliding doors to a deck. >> That's 8 ft above ground level, right?
>> Because of the style of the house. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because of the style of the house, not considering saying >> that's the way around. >> They're talking about as if there's a third in that example the deck off their bed.
Okay, that's what they privacy. >> Right. Right. >> Um so you think this is sufficient that we can uh just add this what I read and I'll read it again to add this back into our ordinance.
>> I think so. Okay. >> Yeah. You know what I think happened? Uh it they replaced number D with um language about front porch porticos, right? >> Remember we were talking about the so they inserted new language.
>> So you have your notes from 201. >> So they just they they wear. >> So if that Yeah. >> Put back the same language. That's what somebody hit delete. They highlight and delete instead of highlights and uh
what's >> okay so I'll read for the record for the record one more time >> um okay uh 700 46 uh item uh page 12 and 15 item four uh
uh letter D by any terrace or porch having it four level no higher than four level of the first story of the building and have no railings or other member higher than 3 ft above floor level 6 ft.
I'm going to make a motion that we have that verbiage added to our zoning orders. I hear a second call. >> All in favor? >> I oppose extensions. Thank you.
That's going to get sent to the commissioners. Hey, what's up? >> That was an easy one. >> Oh, we started talking about was talking about the two front doors. I started that conversation with Dave today. It morphed into basements, uh, direct
access, bathrooms, kitchens. This is an item, by the way, we've been talking about. Dave's been in that spot for 18 years. We've been talking about it for 18 and a half years about how you're going to how you handle basements and second kitchens and all that stuff, which we've never been able to put together something that
everybody agreed on. So, it was still a thing. That that's how we we got into that for about 40 minutes. And I just want to see if I have anything else. One minute, please. No, I think that's good for me tonight. Anybody have anything else on this type
of subject? If anybody needs any any please. >> I just just to let you know, I'm working on a scope of work for the Washington Avenue planning study. We'll, you know, when I get it, when I get the draft together, we'll share with everybody.
>> Thank you. The camera board we got seven years ago street. >> Yeah. I didn't uh yeah, I saw there's a lot of drawings. I didn't know what I was looking at, frankly. >> I was at the presentation. I remember it, but I I didn't I had to read through it again. But >> yeah, I'm
>> I only wanted that circulated just in case because I didn't remember if you addressed Washington. >> Oh, that's the only reason why, >> you know, we're not I don't think we need anything super fancy. Just, you know, what what's there now? What what's
our current exposure? What's currently allowed? and you know what's our potential what what are potential development opportunities and would be would we be happy with that if not maybe we got to make some changes >> right essentially that's what Kimberly
was doing street he was looking at different pieces the question was what's there what could be there >> there were a few different ways to be he approached it and some of it got
I seem to recall and I think maybe this is just maybe a fuzzy recollection that we actually did look at Washington Avenue but one point the question was what do you do because it's such a big we were looking at it from actually from
Bel there was really quite a good at the time you quite look if you look at how would you situate it >> given what's already there taking into traffic changes and what she ownership was ownership property.
>> Um we didn't get too far because it was considered to take it on and I think it was a rough kind of concept. >> I thought George did but maybe it was I don't see somebody else. >> I don't remember a formal
>> I don't think he did a formal very of Um the rough draft of you know once they are join if you think about we're going to do what from double line to like grand >> that's all B4
>> that's all B4 >> so >> I think That's right. Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not so sure about um you know, south of Park Avenue,
>> right? From Park Avenue, you know, the Dunkin Donuts to Belleville. Um, I'm not sure we have the same unsettling exposure than we have between Park Avenue and Brandt. I mean, if if
Biola sells out, Biola 20 years from now, 30 years from now sells out to a developer, those all are residential behind it and uh, you know, we may want to, you know, just understand what what what's allowed there and if we're happy with we're
happy with it. >> Everything But s >> north of grand that's all >> north of grand is fine. See you got the two you got the proponent bank and u well know you have um the abundant life it's another big piece of if they sell
out what we have by right this big piece of property. Yeah, both sides, you know, and potentially, you know, in E4 is probably not a lot of things
about either development plan or or right well that's been it's natural. I mean, anything can happen, right? So, why is that? We do
have all force. So he has to we have pretty high control what can happen general business no residential nothing like no no manufacturing stuff like that when you get down the other end right there residential
mixed use that probably predates the zone south probably over that building. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I agree. So, we should be prepared for
this not by won't be in business. I mean, they've been for 100 years, but fair enough. And there's other things in life that is a big spot. Um I think it's
but we're going to get where is that's Washington is there like a little apartment building over there too >> maybe >> right next right next to is where the
mill is and that little deli I think it's right next to that there's a building port. Yeah. You know, there's probably a fair amount of density, residential density down there. >> Yeah. You know, we just we want to be prepared. So,
>> yeah. Like, for example, in the B4 zoning district, um, talks about allowing neighborhood retail stores, storage and sales facilities for building materials, bar, restaurants, takeout food establishments, automotive sales
agencies. Who wants that? No offense. Uh, printing established, dying plants, >> dying, and I don't know what a dying plant is. Laundryies, dry cleaning, and dying plants, you know? So, you know, it's kind of like there's no buffer there, right? You
know, that that's I think we should concern ourselves with is there a, you know, a buffer type of use that is acceptable to the residential right next door, but also allowable in a B4 because you don't want to hurt the property owner as well. Yeah,
>> but the people who live behind it, my older brothers have been dealing with people for 100 years. >> Yeah. Right. >> So any any use that's better than that. >> That's right. >> Should be improvement. Uh >> that auto should >> Oh yeah. Yeah.
>> What's blue ribbon blue ribbon fuel? >> Okay. And they're that property. It's an interesting piece of property. But Jim and his wife, they're they didn't sell. They still own the property. >> Yeah. They sold the business.
>> They sold the they Yeah, they sold the business, but they property, but there's that issue with the railroad track with the railroad property back. >> And I don't know how that I don't think it ever resolved.
I don't remember why Joanne was there going back and forth and the attorneys were involved. >> What was the issue? >> The railroad was giving him a problem because >> yes supposed to be 20 ft off the railroad. That building has been there forever. >> It's and I guess when you pull around
the back you can go to the right and then they do the garage doors open and you pull in your car right there. They're saying that area where you pull in that they were on the on the rail program and we were going crazy back then with letters and lawyers and u it
kind of just Do you remember any of that and it kind of just went away and they that was why I think part of the reason why they decided because friendly with them they they were looking to either
leave completely sell property I think they were afraid to deal that if they sold because um it might have devalued the property. >> So right now, you know, by leasing it, they're still doing business. I mean,
the railroad I don't know what go back in legal days, railroads have so much power. >> They do. They do. >> They have so much power. >> They got these properties, some of them they don't even use anymore. >> But they don't give them up. not giving
up for whatever whatever lobby they had years ago was really good. >> Yeah. You know the thing that you know Warren Buffett's a big guy the things they don't recognize is Joe
they use that landing for the state of New Jersey they say well you know we're going to do this we're going to do that over here in the state
have so much into that prison. Yeah. So, because they made a private crossing, public crossing, they wanted to close public
and they You know, so we got a reaper that's known as the line. It's a lot of work. >> Wow. >> So that line comes after cross. So you won't be able to cross on
the railroad track. >> But what was the last time that was that? mutual >> and they don't want to give it up. >> They will not want to give it up. >> They don't want to give up right away. This is the reason why
you see what I was abandoned for years that were and they were using panel off and it took a lot of money
to decommission that wine million dollars a significant >> significant that doesn't happen for a long time. >> Well, I'm sure Jerry will have that we're ready to submit and we'll look at
it. We have to just give it to our planner or if you need to put it out. We're not sure. Okay. You have any committee reports? No. Pastor, you have any uh else? Anyone from the public wish we should speak?
Anthony, how you feeling? >> I feel great. Thanks for inviting me. >> Okay. All right. >> We hope to get you here soon. Anthony, >> maybe another week or two. Joe, >> our next meeting's on 20 on the on the 6th, right? On 6th of May. Next
Wednesday. >> Next Wednesday. Okay. We don't we don't have anything on the agenda yet, but let's see if we come up with something. We'll figure it out. All right, Anthony. >> I make a motion to adjurnn.
>> Thank you. Second. All in favor? I your