WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=kCku-2JtgKQ

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: kCku-2JtgKQ):
- 00:00:00: Flag Salute, Roll Call, Meeting Notice, and Minutes Approval
- 00:01:54: Approval of Meeting Minutes and Communication Bills
- 00:03:09: Adjourning Franklin Avenue Hearing and Short-Term Rental Discussion
- 00:06:11: Airbnb Incentives, Enforcement Concerns, and Potential Legal Challenges
- 00:08:49: Focusing on Short Term Rentals, Impact on Nutley
- 00:11:39: Formalizing Short Term Rental Stance and Illegal Apartments
- 00:14:51: World Cup Concerns, Backyard Rentals, and House Sitters
- 00:17:18: Stormwater Management Notes and Reviewing Parking Requirements
- 00:20:02: Off-Site Parking, Conditional Use Permits, and Variance Authority
- 00:22:27: Shared Parking Agreements, Zoning Code, and Restaurant Parking
- 00:24:48: Legally Getting Around Parking Requirements and No Parking Downsides
- 00:27:12: Revoking Conditional Use Permits and MRNJ Radiology Example
- 00:29:39: Residential Parking Headache and Difficult Enforcement
- 00:31:15: Commercial Building Parking and Restaurants, Foot Traffic
- 00:33:54: Mixed Use Property, Restaurant Economy, Montclair
- 00:36:38: Successful Restaurants and Uber, Restaurant Business
- 00:39:19: Service Establishments, Uber Eats, New Buildings
- 00:41:41: Franklin Avenue, Parking Variances and Grandfathering
- 00:44:01: B3, B3A,Franklin Steakhouse Franklin Avenue Variances Granted
- 00:46:24: New Restaurant and Parking Acceptability
- 00:48:18: Restaurant Decisions and Improved What We Have
- 00:50:11: Uber Eats, Society, Door Dash, Picking Up Food
- 00:52:21: Park Avenue Zoning, Spot Zoning and B1, B2 Areas
- 00:55:00: On-site Parking, Residential vs Office, Lower Density
- 00:57:10: Office space requirements, Off-Site Parking vs Variance
- 00:59:20: Percentage of Off-Site Parking
- 01:01:45: Towns Offering Parking Off Premise
- 01:04:08: Off-Site Premises Parking, Conditional Use, Motion
- 01:06:15: Modify Section and Relax Parking
- 01:08:24: Conditional Use List and Commercial Zone, Borrow Parking
- 01:10:38: Gardens Apartments and Offsite Parking, Conditional Use Permit
- 01:12:48: Adding Off-Premise Auto Parking, Conditional Use, All Zones
- 01:15:13: Bypassing Planning, Straight Through Process, List Addition
- 01:17:38: Workshop and Washington Avenue Study


Part: 1

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Everybody please stand for the flag salute. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and

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please call the roll. Uh he will be walking in the door in a minute in the door any minute. He just texted Excused. Excused. >> Here. >> Here. >> Here.

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>> Excused. >> Here. >> Excused. Here. Here. Thank you. Uh, let's see. Um Kathy, will you sit for uh

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uh Mayor Kelly? No, >> Mr. Smith. >> Okay, >> that's it, right? Yeah, that's it. Pursuant to the requirements of the Open Public Meetings Act, notice of this meeting was in included in the annual notice of regular meetings for the year

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2026 as advertised in the Star Ledger on February 5th, 2026 and in the Herald News in the Nutly Sun on November 20th, 2025 with a copy posted on the Township of Nutley bulletin board first floor town hall. A copy is filed in the office of the township clerk and copies are

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available to all members of the general public. Uh, did we did we get minutes? We did get minutes, right? Anybody had a chance to approve those minutes, take a look at them? Any questions, discussion? I'll hear a motion. >> Move. >> Second. All in favor?

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>> I communications and bills. I have two bills for approval this evening. The first is from uh Ms. Blank whose attendance and preparation of the meeting minutes for April 29, 2026. It's in the amount of $150. Those minutes

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were just approved. I find that to be fair and reasonable. >> I hear a motion move to pay. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I thank you. And the second one is a uh bill from uh Ricky Planning for it's his Paul's review with respect to the

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application uh at uh 590 see yes for for 590 Franklin Avenue. >> 530 >> 530 530 Franklin Avenue. I'm sorry I'm transposing. It's in the amount of $650

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which I find to be fair and reasonable. >> Motion second. Hi. >> Yep. Please. And those are the only communication the bills I do have for this even. >> Okay.

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>> Okay. Um we are you were supposed to be hearing 5:30 Franklin Avenue today. We're gonna going to adjourn it to uh June June 17th. Let the record show Mr. mouth town just walked in the door. Um we're we're we're adjourning it to

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617 assuming that um all necessary documents and plans will be in uh in our position in a timely fashion, but I've uh secured that meeting for that. Welcome back, Anthony. >> Thank you. Good to be back smiling faces. Happy to see you.

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>> Yes, we're happy to see you. >> Uh but not my uh opinions, right? Ah, that >> you're a package deal. >> Okay. And we have no resolutions. We have no application. Uh, old

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business. Um, Commissioner, um, do did we finalize the warehouse ordinance? >> Believe we did. >> We did, right? I thought I said, but we didn't add Did we add the accessory warehouse thing yet? No. Okay. Um, the only other one I wanted to bring up was

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the short-term rental thing. I don't that was probably never introduced, right? Okay. The reason I'm bringing it up is because everybody >> was that >> all right. The World Cup's coming. >> So, >> I know you know some some municipalities have banned them banned short-term

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rentals. Well, we're we're basically we banned them because it's not listed as a permitted use, but as I had a conversation with Dave today, there are when I put them there's three um Airbnbs advertised on their website

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available in Nutley. Uh one of them's on High Street just past uh Ardos. One of them is 481 Center Street, which is just west of Prospect Street. And there's one on center street each of east of Union Avenue, but that was the only one that didn't have a picture of the building, so I couldn't find it. Um, those are

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three that are available. This is only for the weekend of the final, the 16th to the 20th. There's only three available. I mean, there could have been seven rented already, >> right? >> Okay. >> And the concern that I'm breathing, the reason I'm bringing it up is obviously I want everybody to know because we have

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an opportunity for enforcement. We've done it before. We've cited people and find them. But I read an article in the Nutly Sun I make maybe a month ago. Uh it's still hanging in my office. As a matter of fact, Airbnb is giving the renter $750 rebate during fighter.

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Really? >> Not just Nutley, just the area. So these people have $750. And let me give let me tell you this. The center street one is $1,700 for four nights. The the other seven center street one that's by prospect is $4,600 for four nights. And

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the one on High Street is $6,100 for four nights plus the 750 VI. Okay. So, my feeling is because Airbnb is starting to incentivize these people, Airbnb's got the money and the time and the lawyers to challenge something like

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this. If we if if we were to shut down all three of these and who knows how many other ones we find, they might decide, "All right, let's go talk to Nutley and let's challenge their their uh their position." We get challenged, we're going to lose. Well, I still think we'll look. >> But why? Yeah.

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>> Well, well, because I don't I think I don't think it's pretty I don't think it's strong enough to say if it's not listed, it's not allowed. >> Well, I So, your point is that we should ban >> We should ban them. There should be a specific ordinance saying so. And we have a definition and all that stuff. I That's why I'm bringing it up because um

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I think it starts in May sometime, doesn't it? There starts in >> I'm sorry, it's not June, it's July. >> The finals are other, >> but it goes for 30 days. June June 13th. >> Yeah. >> Here. So, it's going to be on going on for a month at Metife.

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>> Yeah. >> Right. >> Off and on. Yeah. >> Off and on. >> Okay. Well, I just thought I >> We've been in the municipal court several times. Several times for Airbnbs on complaints and investigations, and we've been successful every time. We've

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never got challenged yet. >> No. But this might bring up volume that might that might shine might it might shine a light on it. have a as a zoning officer, I am perfect that it's not a permitted use and it's not allowed. So when I get a complaint from a resident

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or from anybody, I pursue the complaint. I look into it. I send a violation. I placard the door and I and I write a summon when we go into a court. We pro we give the judge our presentation and we have been successful every time so far.

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>> What happens to the people that are there Dave? >> Like if you obviously if there's a complaint So it's always after, right? >> The there has been several occasions where residents will call where there's

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a party going and the police go there and then the next day code enforcement gets to complain and then we act on it. >> But obviously it would be better if you had something that was proactive. I mean we we've had this discussion before. uh you know Dave's doing his job and do

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with with the interpretation and that's fine and that'll hold up if nobody challenges it. On the other hand, to your point, if you had something on the books that said you can't do it, it'll be strictly an enforcement matter for the police with follow through by the town with the specific definition that

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we've already >> put up there. So, it's there. So, >> can I ask you anybody come to your office asking different? Yeah. A lot. Real. >> So then having the audience would already sit. >> I just better down at the mic here. >> Yeah.

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>> Pull it down or we got to move down. >> Well, you if you move down it'd be easy. >> You afraid I'm gonna bite down. >> You can try to pick up. Okay.

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sat next to him. My shirt took off that >> bl usually sits there. >> Yeah, >> you lost your spot on. >> You guys can share that. Uh I'm gonna buy you. >> No, I say lost your own stuff.

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>> Yeah, you you can leave the hat down. >> So anyway, so I just I just thought I'd uh try to get a little focus on that. Uh because I don't know I I I just feel like >> somebody who goes with has a house in Nutland and goes to Airbnb and wants to

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use it every once in a while as a renter, >> it's not that big of a deal. Not that it's not a big deal to the h to the town, but it's not a big deal to um Airbnb. But if Airbnb finds out from their renters, four, five, six or seven of them, that the township Bernutly is shutting them down, they might decide to

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pay a lawyer a couple dollars to see if they can challenge it. >> I don't think so. It's too small potatoes. >> Yeah. >> You think so? >> Yeah. >> Can you challenge if we have a law that says you can't >> and having but by the time we catch up to it,

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>> it's over. >> That's the other problem. Yeah. issue. >> I mean, what if somebody individually just >> what if somebody individually knows somebody, you know, who's looking for something and they rent to them for a

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few weeks? Airbnb not involved. >> Well, it's not I shouldn't say Airbnb. It's not Airbnb. Short-term rentals. >> Okay. Period. >> People people could be going on Facebook Marketplace. They could be going on Craigslist. Exactly. >> And I understand there could be a situation where

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>> somebody's coming who who works out of Montana has to come to New York and work out of New York for a month. They need a place to live, you know, but there's other towns. So, you being in real estate, you see a lot. Do you see a lot of that? >> Learned anything? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. >> I don't either.

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>> No. >> Okay. All right. So, everybody's aware. Um, there are legitimate short-term rentals that are actually listed. I mean, especially in Monontlair where people will, you know, go away for the summer

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and rent their house and have for years and that would probably would be like for two months or so >> probably >> that would be okay because it's 30. It's less than 30 days. So, in that would be okay. And I just wanted to touch base on

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>> excuse me, regardless of the situation that's happening in June, I think you have a very good idea that we take this situation very >> importantly and get something on the books or decide do we want something on the books or not because we've been having that for years now and it's more

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of a severe issue because people don't want to just rent out legitimate spaces. They think that, oh, I can make a little bit extra money. I finish my basement and I can have somebody stay in my basement. We caught more illegal basic apartments through Airbnb than regular

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full-fledged renting out a whole apartment. I don't know if you ever recall couple of the meetings that we had uh combined meetings we had a couple years ago. >> There was a lady sitting right next to me and she reminded me I sent her a violation. Oh, I stayed in that basement

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apartment um for an Airbnb. She had family around the area. She stayed there. So um >> I don't remember that. I don't know. Yeah, it was a funny story, but seriously, if the town takes the position that we don't want these, we should clear it up. We should get it clear. It should be specific. There

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should be language. This way, we don't have struggles. Someday I'm going to go into court and I'm going to have a little bit of a hard time. >> Was Wasn't there a discussion, Dave, that included, you know, uh people that were uh boarding houses also that had a

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time limit? And wasn't there a a a sort of similarity between uh short-term rentals and things of that nature that you know people are using uh you know I hate to use the word boarding house but I don't even know if that's

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the proper term anymore uh for short-term rentals you know in between things >> more so somebody that is renting out there they have a nice fake basement apartment yes >> and they don't realize and they just listed where we have somebody that has

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an apartment building who has five units and you know one of them may just leave as they want to have you know rather than rent it out regular they want to use it as a short permit because they generate maybe a little bit more money so I think it's very important that we think this not just because the event's

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happening but once that's going to be long and gone we're still gonna this this problem is still going to be in our town >> does it matter if they're related short-term rental to a family member because you Well, you can't I don't think you can make that a stipulation in the in your

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in your ordinance, but if I if you were my my cousin or my brother and you needed to live in my house for a month, I wouldn't charge you. >> Yeah, that would be considered. >> Huh? >> Our code would allow it. >> Yeah, that's a family member sitting in in the unit together.

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>> Yeah. And a family member. A friend >> or a friend. I mean, and that's different. you're not advertising and get I think it's a I think it's more than anything with the with transients coming in for a few days it's a public safety issue too >> especially during during this this bea

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thing I mean they're they're gearing up for trafficking issues all kinds of >> global event for for world cup is going to bring people it could be anybody from anywhere >> yeah no I think it's a public safety issue >> we don't need them here >> and all all those times that I recommend

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you find out when those games are going to be. You just stay home. >> Yeah. >> I'm going out of town. >> Qu order in. Just stay home. >> Yeah. >> And the short-term rentals can't just include a Well, >> it has to be clear that you can't rent out your backyard to a party. We have other other situations

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their whole back >> and on a Friday afternoon I would get a call from a neighbor. Hey Dave, there's a portage John at the house. >> It's true. It happens. So to get >> that would be a telltale sign. That's why.

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>> Yeah, I didn't even think of that. >> Well, how do you distinguish between that and a house sitter? I'm going away for two months. Stay in my house. I'll pay you to stay in my house. >> I don't think because that >> but I don't think the intent I don't

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>> if you look at the real situation that's an innocent >> Yeah. Okay. scenario where you need a house sitter and it's once in a while >> and that and and first of all if it was that specific scenario be more than 30 days and you're paying them to stay there maybe it's a month maybe it's

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three weeks but you're paying them >> we actually did that one year and we were at the shore for a month >> cash would go around and tell >> there's no money >> you would probably tell all your neighbors hey by the way my friends sitting here be aware you know they're not alerting their neighbors that

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they're gonna have you party. >> Five five guys saying it. >> Yeah. >> Drinking beer on their porch. >> E fraternity guy absolutely likes to have a party. >> Yeah. Right. That's a different story. >> Yeah. Interesting. >> The yard gets rented as well

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>> with a pool and then there's a pool party. >> Pool party. There's there's actual >> I don't know it's called splash or something like that where you can rent out your pool. >> Wow. >> God a liability. I mean, the attorneys in the room and is not a huge liability.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> We should I'm going to look at the de the definition that we sent up too and see if we I don't think we said anything about a pool or a backyard or anything. We said just anything rented for less than 30 days.

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>> I may curious. >> Okay. >> For for short-term rental. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. So when >> when when commissioners talking about it, they might John Bruno might have to modify. >> What? >> That's okay too. As long as we as long as we prohibit it. >> Swiftly.

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>> S wimply. It's not splash. I thought >> if I yelled it, it would be something there. >> Well, I need the pool. >> Okay. Um, moving on real quick. the uh

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conversation we had about the joint meeting notes specifically for the drainage and the uh uh storm water management stuff for the single family. I sent an email and copied Dave to S uh and Dave and I'm assuming you forwarded it to the the Penoni guy because I

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didn't have his his information. So, they know about it and they're they're working on trying to get some kind of study put together. So, we'll follow up on on that a little bit later if they have a little chance to uh to work on that. Okay. Did everybody get the my suggestions for the parking

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requirements? Anybody? Everybody, >> do you have another copy of that by any chance? >> I brought three just in case. >> Okay. >> Let me see what it looks like on >> the read. >> You sent that by

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>> email. I think >> Barry sent. >> Yeah. Well, I sent it to Barry because I don't not allow him to go direct. >> One more. >> I'm going to look. I got scolded this. >> I don't like scolding. >> Mark, do you have one more? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> If available.

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>> If not, I could share with someone. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, we have that and then I just handed out uh this one uh chapter 7 uh 700 zoning permitted uses and return to the second page and you will see uh section A.

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All right. And I also the other day sent out a copy of the conditional uses. Now Dave, you're going to have to help me out in this case. I don't >> copy last. >> What's that? What >> that? >> The one that >> what the one parking Dave >> the new one. >> Yeah.

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>> No, I just had asked Jess to because I didn't I didn't have time to get the account. So anyway, this is all this is all uh connected. So right now the copy of the of the conditional uses that we have calls for off premises auto auto parking lots which is what we talked

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about for the 530 Franklin Avenue where the guy has supposed to have nine spots he only has four. So he could solve that issue right now by getting by let's just use the example of the if uh Mickey decides to let him lease from her five

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spots. it's within 500 feet. It's on the same street that satisfies his parking. And that right now, that's the way we have it. And we'll discuss that further. But the concerning part of it to me is because it's not listed on a conditional use list anymore. They can take that

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stuff, they take that document to Dave with their application and Dave issues conditional use permit, now it's not a variance anymore and it's out of our hands. So the the parking requirement can be satisfied without it ever even coming in front of us. So the solve to that I'm being told is we have to add

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off-site parking back to the conditional use and then it Dave cannot supersede the uh uh the variance for the planning board. That would be step one. >> Uh step two is this uh ordinance end. Now you telling me Dave that we need to modify that or get rid of it or how does

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that how how does that work with that? Because the only thing I saw was number one, it says the zoning official must review propose off- premises site and make uh determination of suitability which gives you the power to say yes or no. Can we just take that out? >> Well, hold up. Okay.

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>> Does everybody understand what conditional use application this conditional use the term conditional use? >> Explain it, D. >> Okay. A conditional use application is an application that the town has set

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through ordinance that the zoning officer is not allowed to give unless it goes in front of one of the boards, either the planning board or the zoning board or a site plan application. So any of the conditional uses that the

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town establishes are set up in a list and then there's a section in the code that has specifications on it. Those specifications have to be met or it has to go to a zoning board. But I'm not allowed to give a zoning permit on a

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conditional use application. That has to go in front of the board. So, a couple of years ago, for some thought, there was this parking automobile parking lots. It was basically a a shared parking agreement

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where somebody could go to another property and they could work an agreement out and they could get borrow parking from that space if they have extra parking. And that was always done with the planning board as a conditional use application. So all those

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applications that the planning board worked on many many moons ago where a lot of those establishments the big restaurants on Franklin Avenue didn't have a parking requirement. Well, they came in front of the planning board. They showed the planning award where they were going to park, how there was,

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you know, they presented to the board this application and then the board granted an approval based upon a conditional use application. In 2015, that was taken out of the code as a conditional use and it was put in the

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zoning code that would allow the zoning officer to give that approval >> without the planning board. So basically what that means is if that guy who has 530 Franklin Avenue had a lease lease assigned lease from Mickey

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Beyond for five spots that that that variance for uh parking for that building wouldn't even be part of the application. So it would have been okay for us for them to build it the way they built it and have four tandem spots. Now, what happens if Mickey Beyond sells

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her property and then >> if I were talking about because I will tell you that what happens is I don't I don't want to judge this guy, but there was a guy who had opened up a restaurant on on Pak Avenue many years ago, leased some uh spots from uh J Pyro and never paid him.

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>> Yes, that's >> okay. Now, I mean, what I mean if he finds out about that, what's he going to close the restaurant? So, we have to come up with a better a better system. So there's there's other ones besides >> that's just that's the one that pops into my head because I remember it specifically.

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>> Well, years ago um where meal was and whatever was there like two or three times before. >> Yes. They had we had granted a a conditional use for them to use the chalini lot, >> right? >> That was to deal with that. >> Yeah.

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>> Upon the sale and I obviously dealt with land use council. What was I supposed to do? But like what you know >> let the sale trend let the sale go through. You know it it wasn't easy because these agreements were in place

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for them to park and then now the propertyy's not there anymore. So it becomes a you know >> it's basically worthless because >> couldn't there couldn't there be language that it would not survive um you know >> it's a way to get the property were sold.

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The only as the zoning officer, the only way I see it is it's a way to legally on the books get around the parking requirement. >> Obviously, parking is exactly >> We have no parking. But we have no parking. And if somebody has a vacant

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space, Beyond for example, what's so terrible about that? >> I'm not saying it's terrible. What I'm saying is >> I don't see a downside. >> I'm saying No, what's the point? What I'm saying is the old method in Nutley to get a conditional use application

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before 2015 was to apply to the board for a site plan application. >> Now in the code, you could apply to the zoning officer and meet the same criteria as you did before. It's just I have the authority to grant the approval.

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>> The first order of business is to get off-site parking back on the conditional use list. So that that scenario goes away. is if if if any application wants to build an apartment or any kind of project that that needs a parking

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requirement and let's just say they're lucky enough that >> the neighbor has a big parking lot >> and you know in that area there are a lot of neighbors that have parking lots frankly out there within 500 people >> if you satisfy all of the specs in the

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ordinance I would not cite that for a variance that's the point that I think Mark's trying Exactly. That's step one. >> Wait, can I just ask a question? So, in in um what Carol said, like what's so

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bad if the parking's there, but again, so if we give this person a variance where he doesn't have enough parking, but he enters into an agreement >> it's a conditional use. >> A conditional use. >> It's a it's a conditional it's like an approved permit that comes before the board. You put conditions on it. you you

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know >> would be you guys just saying >> so okay you're asking for a variance worth granting you you don't need that parking >> okay so I understand so we give the conditional allow the conditional use but now beyond these cells

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>> and they say I'm not going to let them park there now where do those >> that's your problem that's >> exactly >> no but we can address that problem >> well not really beyond wants to can't I can't >> I got I have I I unfortunately you can

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see how many emails I sent >> I didn't have a whole lot going on that's just what I >> Okay, >> tomorrow's a different story. >> Tomorrow you won't hear from me at all. >> Wait, wait, wait. So, let me let me let me talk about what Kathy said because

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once they once they decide that once there isn't that parking that conditional use is is no longer valid because they don't have enough parking to satisfy. So, he can revoke the Cup. >> That's the problem. >> But is he going to No,

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>> honestly, I would I would pro I would want to avoid that. I mean, >> if it's if it's a really good restaurant and and and everybody likes to go there and people come from out of town, you're not going to close it down because because now it's a >> I'm gonna give you another one. And and in the years ago,

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>> the the was MRNJ, right, which is the radiology place on Center Street >> adjacent to the the parking lot that's behind Luna. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. 13 spots >> that they leased from the town.

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>> How much are they in your ears? >> This is a good example. >> Wow. >> This is a This is an application that came in front of a land use board >> that didn't have the right amount of parking that said, "Okay, I'm going to build this building. The building requires a certain amount of building, a

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certain amount of parking spaces. We don't have the parking, but you know what? We're going to rent these spaces from the town." So at the time um you know the DPW gave approval and they came up with these this this parking agreement it's a condition in the

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variance that they every year um pay for these 13 spaces >> but they didn't so they they leased they technically >> and sold the building and left the new owner with the the bill >> for that reason they do you have to keep

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those spots open for that. >> Yeah. Are they paying that? >> I can't tell you that for sure. >> I will leave it open for them. >> What What kind of agreement is it with the town Joe? Is it a lease or is it uh >> It was a condition that Okay. >> predates

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that building a long time. >> A long time. Dave, does it ever happen with residential? You're talking about commercial >> examples. Has it ever happened with an apartment building that you know >> could >> definitely >> they didn't have enough parking >> based on the

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one 22 family? >> Well, that's that's a classical here in town in this area. >> Yeah. Parts >> property right now on Washington Avenue that borrow parts to BFW. They're gone and done. And there was an agreement on

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a on a napkin that you know that they said they would allow parking. It's a big headache. >> So, it's a lot lot harder to kick someone out of an apartment than it is to say to a restaurant or a medical use. You can't >> Yeah.

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>> town, the board, the board and and the planning board has to be real careful with these goals because these legacy down the line >> 30 years from now if it comes out and then it's it's creates issues. So, we're talking about parking, how important

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parking, what was it, it was important 30 years ago. You know, you got to really think in Look, you should know as a matter of thought that that whoever's supplying the parking enters into a contract with whoever it is who needs the park. >> Yeah. >> And the reality is, I think most lawyers

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would agree, we could talk about that, whatever, >> somebody will break the contract at some point, either the supplier or the payer. you know, it can be challenged and broken. Uh the question is what do you do when that happens? You know, you and

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I hear the board sentiment. You don't want to push people out of apartments. You don't want to push a successful business out of town, whatever. But you can try to enforce it monetarily. That's really the only thing you can do. And the owners have the same problem.

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Whether it's the township renting the space or somebody who's got, you know, five spaces or 10 spaces, you're they're always going to have the problem. It's an enforcement issue and there's no perfect way of preserving. >> It's very difficult. >> Just it's just the way it is. >> But Mark, can you repeat what you're

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proposing about this? >> I I'm going to in a minute, but let me just address that uh that commercial building. Um the only thing about that that has like a silver lining is it's a business. They show up at 9:00 in the morning, they leave at 5:00. It's not like it's somebody that lives there, they need to park it overnight.

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>> So, it's it's it's an issue, but it's not as big of an issue. So, let me let me let me just tell you read what I sent out. Some of you guys have it, some of you don't. All right. Now, in the example of a restaurant or a retail, any business that has that depends their their business depends on foot traffic, there should be zero parking

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requirements for business. If somebody wants to invest a half a million dollars in a building in Nutley and open up a restaurant and if the restaurant is good, if the food is good, if the service is good, they're going to go. There's a lot of places in Nutley that are very successful businesses that have no parking because we have a fair amount

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of a fair amount of public parking for people. And if you want to go get the raviolis at this store, at this restaurant, you're going to go one way or another. You'll park. And the same thing with if a guy opens up a a retail store selling widgets. If you have the best widgets in New Jersey, people are going to come. They'll find a place to

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park. And the reason why I like that idea is because the residential if assuming it's a mixeduse, the residential requirement of 1.8 for a onebedroom and 2.3 for a two-bedroom, every parking space necessary for that building should be on the premises. They

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should not be allowed to get off-site parking residential. So the people who live there always have a place to park. And then you go to office space where it's one space for 300 ft. 1,240 3 ft equals four spaces.

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I think that in that case the the owner should be able to find off- streetet park off-site parking and and with similar parameters 500 feet on the same street. I mean that 500 feet is a long way but if it's an office and it's your

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and it's your law office and you have need you need 12 spots and you've only got eight, you you could find four spaces for your employees to park at 9:00 in the morning and leave at 5:'lock in the afternoon. if you had to. But and which is the other thing I thought about

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whatever the requirement is, we can also have a maximum percentage. If it is 12, they're only allowed to only allow to lease out 30%. Whatever the number is, we could discuss that. So, if it's if it's if it's 12 spaces, uh 25% would be

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uh would be three. They can lease three spots. And that's just an example. But if if a if a retail store or a restaurant, you if you're building a a mixeduse building and you want to put a 1,200 square foot restaurant in here, you don't have to worry about parking for your restaurant, which gives you

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plenty of room to make a make parking for your four apartments on the second and third floor or whatever. And if and you do the math, if it seems if you want to provide parking for your employees, great. That means you have to have less appointment less apartments. And it'll indirectly lower the density if they want to have parking for their

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employees. I have two comments just as I'm thinking and I I agree with you about the restaurants that you shouldn't look at Montlair. There's no parking anywhere. So, but when I go to Montlair to have dinner or take an Uber so you know when

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you park in that parking garage or or you just get dropped off and then picked up. I can't tell you how many times I've done that. So, I mean that's an option. And if we want to be known as a restaurant town or we want to encourage our, you know, our economy here, that's

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an option. But if you look at a mixeduse piece of property, if they have a restaurant below them, but you still have the apartments, I mean, I think you have to have and you have to have enough room for the people to park. And then if you're a store or

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whatever, where are the employees parking? So, do they get a bi do they get a pass? if it's a restaurant. >> Excuse me. Right now, our ordinance is a little helpful with the business loan. So, right now in our ordinance in like a B3

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zone, there's no parking requirement for retail. If it's in a B3, if you go to like a B1, a B2, a B4, retail is different. But in a in a B3 zone and a B3A zone, there's no parking compartment for that >> downtown. downtown.

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>> Okay. >> Restaurant was on Franklin Avenue. >> Restaurants requirement. >> Restaurants too. >> No restaurants. The commissioners, thank you. A few many moons ago took the requirement from two park two parking spaces for every five seats to one park

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space for for 10 seats which relax the requirement which was very good. So right now it's one parking space for 10 for 10 seats. Every 10 seats you need one spot. So, if you have a if you have a restaurant that maxes out at 100 people, you need 10 spots. >> Yeah.

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>> I just don't think that's realistic. >> I don't know a single place that has that. >> That's what I'm trying to think of >> other than street parking. >> Park at Soma or, you know, places like that if you want to go there. >> Yeah. >> Soma started with the conditional use

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application, >> right? It was that was one. >> Well, that's where Sonoma is. That's where the restaurant was that leased from J Pyro and then bailed and then bailed. >> That was the same guy who owned Papia. >> But I think if you want to have a successful restaurant business in town,

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you know, you either have to build a building a garage like Montlair has which is what we should have put in Chalini, but that's another story for another day. But um or you have to just say no, just, you know, there's no requirement. Let the people Uber in.

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>> I agree. That's what I'm saying. I don't think a restaurant or a retail establishment that is solely based on people walking through the door should be required to have any kind of parking. So this way that leaves if it is a mixeduse gives it leaves them more room for parking for their residents because

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if it's a mixeduse building and based on the amount of apartments they need 20 spaces all 20 of those spaces have to be on that piece of property. You cannot lease parking spaces for residential. people who live there should be able to park. And the the office thing is different. You have an office with six

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or seven employees. You know, you let them walk from one place to another. They can if it's in downtown if it's downtown, they can lease a park space in uh in the parking lot by uh by by blank if they have to. Let them work it out. Let them work it out. I just I just

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don't and and by doing this you don't have to worry about that conditional use thing except if except if it's a office uh uh scenario. >> Mark, you're you're looking at it totally from um it's just devil's

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advocate. You're looking at it from a customer point of view. What about the servers, the bartenders, the owner? Where are they going to park? >> And the neighbors and neighbors. That's where the real opposition. >> What do you mean the neighbors? >> Well, it's the neighbors when you suck

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up all the parking for a restaurant or a business. It's the neighbors who lose their parking capacity. We've had many times neighbors coming in to complain saying, "Hey, you know, the business is there. We're happy it's successful, but we can't park on our streets anymore because there too many cars coming." It

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doesn't matter really what the business is. We've had a lot of different businesses successful that do that. So you know you're you are looking at it from you want to look at from the from the restaurants point of view customer's point of view but the neighbors too you have to remember some of these have bought onto residential neighborhoods

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>> so there's no simple answer >> but but in the downtown little different little different >> I have more parking spaces yeah I didn't realize that retail didn't have any requirement for already

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>> three under 20,000 square B3 and 3A, right? You say? >> Yeah. >> Yes. It's it's a retail and a service establishment. >> How much retail do we really even have left? >> Um any any store >> building

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Washington? >> Yeah. >> Center Street D. I'm sorry. Repeat what you just said. Service. >> What would be example of a service? The popular uses on Franklin Avenue are as a retail service establishment and the other one a retail establishment and

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then the other one is a service establishment. >> Give me an example of a service >> like haircut. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> Okay. >> Something that provides a service. Okay. Okay. >> That makes sense. Okay. >> And the thing is is I'm just thinking

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out loud. So, most restaurants are busy at night and even more busy on a Friday and a Saturday night, whatever, when your retail isn't, you don't need the spaces. The retail isn't operating that. I just I just think like after seeing

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some of these restaurants close that maybe we need to make it uh better for them to be able to operate. And I don't know, I just think in this world today at Uber, um, people don't, most people if they got more than two drinks, they don't drive, which is good, you know,

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which is smart. We've got, we've come a long way. And, um, and, you know, get getting dropped off and picked up is makes it a lot easier. >> What if you're talking existing buildings and stuff like that? Uh, someone is building something new and they have the ability to provide

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parking. Are you saying you don't need it >> for a restaurant or a retail store? Yes. >> Uh building something from scratch. Yeah. But they have market. >> If we if we if we were to try to adopt something like this or similar to this, it would be obviously for everything new

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that was built going forward. >> And I would imagine if somebody moved out of an empty space on Franklin Avenue, somebody moved in, they would be >> they would be required to follow this and not what was >> if it was the same use. it would be a half they would they would be able to say stay into that whatever that

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previous use was if there's a previous use on Franklin Avenue or restaurant that's pre-existing or it's grandfathered in and it's the same use the use would stay the same there's no change then >> I'm not talking about the use if the I'm not I'm talking about the parking requirement

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>> based upon the use >> understood but what I'm all right so let's say um um what's the name of that place where pags used to be let's say somebody somebody buys that Yeah. >> Okay. And this now it's not the old rules anymore. It's the new rules. Somebody buys that restaurant.

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>> Doesn't go by that so much. There was a previous use there, right? >> It's a whatever the heck it is now. >> There's been uses there. >> There's no parking requirement now. >> Oh, that's right. Because it's downtown. No, wait. That's a restaurant, though. >> That restaurant. >> That's a restaurant. >> That restaurant went for Barianes many moons ago.

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>> So, they would be governed by that approval at that time. That would be that. But now you have a new owner and the new owner doesn't matter. >> Okay. So the use is is the same. So that means that one parking space for every

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10 seats would apply to the guy who bought >> new use that new owners that property is governed by that previous approval when they got variances to to build the old um whatever it was. >> Yeah.

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The variance goes with the property. I understand that. >> So the place that's in there now, what was the what was their parking requirement? Was it one for 10 seats? >> No, they got approved the variance >> for less

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>> for that for that address, you know, 25, 30 years ago. >> And what was the variance? That they could have as many parking. They didn't have to abide by the one for five or 10 or whatever. >> Back then it was two for five. >> Okay. So, but they didn't have to abide by that is what you're saying. No, but

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they got a variance. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, but the new based on what I'm trying to >> work out here is the new >> I buy that restaurant, >> would I be able to say I don't need I don't need park to provide parking spaces for my restaurant.

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>> Buy that restaurant whatever if it's the same use and there's no change of use. The same exact parking requirement that previous owning permit was issued that going to go into effect with the new use unless you propose to make changes to that. make it bigger increase. >> So no matter what so so so no matter

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what we change >> you're changing for application >> any any previous approvals will still remain in in place. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Like Anthony said building a new building a change in use um a new application.

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>> Okay. >> When it was the old Franklin steakhouse and Hudson Rose came, we did research. We looked at the previous approvals. the uh the before the Franklin steakhouse they got variances. All the broccol everyone all their businesses on

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Franklin Avenue got variances. How are they there? The town had this real strict personal requirement back in that day. So strict >> if you would go in front of the board get a variance every every application. Mama Victorious would have never been there without variances granted. The

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Franklin steakhouse would have never been there. I can't name them all. You know, Jim Dandandy would have never been there without up and down Franklin Avenue. Variances are the reason why we have establishments there, which to your

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point, why have a parking car? Hope doesn't, Montlair doesn't. Why does Nelly have this on Franklin Avenue? >> Understood. So, so let's take us off of Franklin Avenue, B3 and B3N. Where in where are there like where Sonoma is? What is that? the boundaries point and

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the neighbors those are the establishments that are around the neighbor. >> Okay. So, what zone is now? >> B2. They're B3. >> All right. So, they would >> which is a unique because B3 you would think is Franklin Avenue, but normally throughout the town, if you look at the

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town, a V2 is an area where you have the residential and it comes to the corner. >> It's typically a corner deli or something like that or like I I got born there used to be Rockies. I think it's called now. Oh, there used to be rockets up. >> Ask him to leave.

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>> Latin point. >> Latin point. There you go. That's really a restaurant. >> Cleveland and uh see >> that's a B2. Yeah. And that's really a restaurant as a use. It's a restaurant. Yeah. >> So what being a restaurant and a B2? Obviously right next door to people's

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homes. What parking requirement? >> One for 10. >> That would be a one for 10. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And that's a good example of the change of use. Before you have this delicate test in or this quick shop and now I'm looking at a potential takeout food establishment, restaurant type

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place. So that's where I would look at the zoning code to see what's the parking requirement and obviously there's not a lot of tables in there if you ever been in there. So they only need they don't really have a big parking requirement. So that's how we were able to assign a zoning permit for that.

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>> So can I give an example? Pete's deli decides to uh change to a restaurant and there's well he's got five 10 tables no parking but that's you know five six seven cars rotating you know during the

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course of three four hours they're going to park on Prospect Street and Stagger and you know in front of people's homes that's acceptable that would be acceptable if you show me well there's an apartment above >> so I'd have to figure out how many bedrooms are above. Okay, that's one

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apartment. If there's two bedrooms, there could be two spaces. And if just say they could see two other spaces somehow on that on their driveway, that's 20 seats. So they could put four tables there or five maybe. No. >> Yeah. Five, six, seven tables.

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>> Yeah. >> So going back to that other question, something new. I come in and I want to build a new building. It's going to be my restaurant. No. Or no apartments upstairs, just rest without a parking requirement. I can maximize that building to say I can why not build a

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much larger retail or commercial and I don't need parking so I'm going to just enlarge it and then >> that's how a lot of the mixed use buildings on Franklin Avenue over the past 15 years got built using that parking calculation and not having to

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put parking for a retail store. >> Well fortunately on Franklin A you have the parking lot behind them there. We're all benefiting from that on both sides of Franklin. >> That's the intentwise it was a lot smart on Franklin. >> Yeah. Yeah. For those areas. Yes. I

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agree. >> It's one of those It's one of those tough decisions, right? Because if a guy's going to go build something new, right? >> Yeah. >> And go to what Mark said previous. And he's taking the risk, right? He's like saying, "Well, I think I can make it work without barking." Right.

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>> He may be wrong, >> right? Exactly. >> But he's taking a big risk. >> Exactly. Some people will be turned off by it. >> Is it like is it is it you know whatever the market could bear or are we smarter than the business owner say no no no you

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need one. >> Couple comments. So so the new person who comes in and builds a restaurant will has an open board. They can do whatever they want. They they they don't have to worry about parking spaces. the person who opened a restaurant 10 years ago had to hire

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lawyers, get variances, go through a whole bunch of stuff. Are they still held to what they're that they can only have one for 10? How's that fair? >> Has nothing to do with fair. We're just trying to improve improve what we have. >> No. What what it has to do with now this guy

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>> deal that they bought. That's Yeah. It's like >> everybody you can't not make what you can look probably come back and look for relief from the variance. >> Yes. >> And the other thing that I think that we really need to really really really as a

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board start looking into and I brought it up with the the apartment building on that's going to come up off Franklin Avenue is a whole new phenomena. Uber Eatats and Door Dash. Those people you ever see in front of Cacina, especially

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on a Friday or Saturday night, they're lined up in the bus line. They're lined up all the way down Franklin Avenue because they're running in and that's you know the Door Dash people are coming from all over. It's really blocking up a lot of traffic. >> But that's that's an enforcement because

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they're parking illegally together. You're right about that. I think we've probably all seen that different location. But yeah, but that's an enforcement. So I mean that's you know so if you open up restaurants and it's with restaurants like Ralph's >> Ralph you know his credit but to his

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credit though >> he doesn't deliver he doesn't do door do dash and he doesn't do Uber Eatats >> he couldn't possibly make enough sandwich if he ever started delivering he'd have to open up another kitchen >> but he doesn't he doesn't eat and he doesn't do door dish right >> so some people we're we're becoming a

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society we're like well I don't even want to go pick it up so I'll find a restaurant that's going to door dish to So, I've never done Door Dash and I've never done Uber Eats, but um I just think it's something that we need to start putting out there. I

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>> go to that Cath is I heard one of the restaurants that recently closed >> blame some of that on not not doing as well because people are picking up food, right? They're not coming in. They're not sitting down. They're not having drinks. They're just >> Yeah.

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>> pick it up and go. >> Yeah. you know, they're not sitting down and, you know, I mean, because if you have a a liquor license, >> yeah, you want that's what you're going to make your money, right? You're not making all the money on the food, >> right? So, >> I'll go help them make money.

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>> Not much. There's a big article in the Star Ledger a couple of Sundays ago talking about that. Exactly. Why the restaurants are having a rough time and people are more health consscious. People aren't drinking as much >> to the food. >> Yeah. That's it. I want to drink it. Try it. >> But I I I left myself, but I'm going to send Paul Ricky an email and see if

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other if how if the other towns might be handling that for future restaurants and see if there's a however I'm going to let him do the research. >> Is there a difference between retail and restaurants, Dave? >> Yeah. >> And business. So Mark put them all in the same line here. But should that

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>> I put retail and restaurants. Any business that counts on that that depends on foot. when I was thinking of business is legal. >> That's that's the third section office space. >> The only thing >> okay down at the bottom >> is the zone like >> yes

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>> the B3 zone is the downtown Franklin Avenue to B3. I think you got to think about >> B1, B2, these are the areas, the neighborhoods and in my experience and not telling the stories. Those are where the where the problems are on on

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on these restaurants that are that come in new and they f up Grant Avenue and Washington Avenue. The police are there and you know, so that might may still want to keep a requirement on those zones. relax them a little bit like they are relaxed now.

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>> Well, if they weren't relaxed, I never would have been able to make that Latin point place, >> right? I think I think the uh >> zero parking requirements for even restaurants in B3 and 38, I think that's just something that we should should consider, but I think maybe the B1 and B2 we should leave it the way it is

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>> to give a little bit of relief to the neighbors. I mean I I live real close to that place and cafe day I can tell you one thing Chestnut Street's pack every time I drive by first game there I get so many heavy

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duty park those people are >> heavy heavy duty >> and I get them on liquor bottles kind of parapernelia and people out there it was bad but that's when it was like a sports bar Yeah,

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>> the huddle. It was >> the huddle. The huddle is bit. >> Yeah. Yeah. Mrs. Mrs. DeFeo would email me every Saturday. >> Yeah. >> I know. Because they're like every once in a while a couple of biker guys would come in and then, you know, not that they cause a lot of trouble, but they're

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loud and you know, shut a bike up at 2 o'clock in the morning. You know, >> I think Mrs. DeFa was out there with a cat. >> They're having sex in the car. All kinds of things. ask you to describe good friends.

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>> Is she still alive? >> Yeah, >> she is. I remember that name going way back. >> She actually had the police chief's cell phone number. >> Who's chief at the time? >> Holland. >> Who was Holland? Yeah. >> She's piece she's piece of work. So I

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think I like the idea of B1 B2 being being some kind of requirement for a restaurant or retail. Just give a little like Sonoma. >> That would be a B3. You said >> that's a B3. >> That's a B3. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So there would be no requirement is what

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you're saying over there. >> And that particular >> goes all the way up. Goes all the way up Chestnut. >> Yeah. Through Old Nutley. >> And it goes left on Yeah. the Old Nut. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that I think that >> dark green,

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>> what about the idea of not allow not allowing off-site parking for anything residential and a mixed use because I don't think that's right. >> Say that again. >> All right. So, for example, let's use 530 Franklin the guy who lives here. Uh

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I don't think he had four two-bedroom apartments. >> That's what he was proposing. He was a single single >> 530 two and then and then the off was only two. >> That's one right there. >> Okay. I bet I let me finish.

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>> No, it had two twobedroom apartments. >> Yeah. >> Which is uh >> five spots. >> All right. Well, they only had four on that piece of property. >> So, he would have to either get the variance for one short from us or try to get off-site parking. I don't think I

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don't think any I don't think any parking requirement should be satisfied by an offsite parking. >> When you talk about parking, the definition base >> in Nutley, our definition says that you have to have direct access. So the thought of tandem parking,

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>> yeah, I know, but that's not allowed. I understand that. But the subject we're talking about right now is not being allowed to contract additional parking to satisfy a shortfall of parking requirement for residential. If you're building whatever you're building calls for 12 parking spaces for the

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residential, you have to have 12 on that piece of property. You can't lease it out because >> reduce the size. >> Or reduce the size. Exactly. It was my feeling that might actually help lower the density uh even more than we've already tried to do going forward. Well, I mean, that's makes sense because why

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even build it if you know you're building it and it doesn't what you're building isn't right, it doesn't fit in. It's it's breaking the law. Basically, the zoning laws. >> Well, that's why we have variances. >> I know, but var variances are for certain reasons. So, if you just go ahead and get an architect to come out

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and build a building that you know doesn't comply with the zoning laws, what >> then they put the application in, they get denied. They come in front of us and we listen and we let them tell her tell their story and we make a determination. >> Yeah. Well, but I mean I don't think we should back off then. >> Keep in mind they often try to say it's

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a hardship. It's not a hardship. >> No, but they have to prove a hardship. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And they won't be able to because you buy into it. you're buy and trying to use that as a real excuse >> regardless of regardless of what we put on paper. Anybody's going to try to build anything they want to build and then everybody's going to try to squeeze

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as much out of as they can and they're going to try for variances. Whether they get them or not is based on the testimony for that specific application >> and the law >> and the law and I have the law right next to um and then the office space stuff. I mean, again, I think that we should

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allow somebody uh to get off-site parking for offices again because it's from 9 in the morning till 10 o'clock at night. Most I mean, I'm sorry, 9 in the morning till 5:00. Sorry. They should use application support for all use. If I was building a manufacturing facility

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and I didn't have parking, I could apply I well I could apply for a zoning permit for meeting any of the parking requirements but for any of the use res you know if I was building a bar you know not just at all. So it's really think about it in

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total all uses in Nutley. All uses if you didn't meet a parking requirement you could file for a zoning permit to meet that criteria. >> Right. As I said before though, the first order of business is to get off-site parking back on the conditional list. So that

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>> opportunity goes away. >> Yeah. >> And if we put on the if we if we adopt that we're not allowing for off-site parking to satisfy residential requirements, that takes that away. Yeah. >> And now all the other ones that are businesses where typically people are getting there at 9:00 in the morning or

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leaving at 5:00, you give them a little bit of a bus and see, you know, as long as it makes sense. But as I as I put in my note, you you want to figure if it's requires 10 and the parking is they only have one spot. Are we going to let them farm out nine spots? I mean, you might want to come up with a a percentage of

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the requirement. But again, you're still going into that scenario where you could say, "Okay, if that 307 or 507 building, I can't remember a number on Franklin Avenue, is going to be all office spaces and they don't have the right parking and Mickey Beyond is going to give them

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spaces that they're going to lease from them and then they sell Beyond and the people that buy it say no." >> So then where are they parking? >> Well, I think we should ease up on it. >> That's a risk that they're taking. >> That's a risk that they're taking. Also, it's also the risk that the town is taking. I'm sorry. But but that's why

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I'm think my feeling is because it's a business where it's a 40hour week. It's not like it's a restaurant that closes at 11:00 at night. Right. >> Okay. It's a business >> open 6% office that they place empty by 5:00. >> You know what I mean? Give them a little bit of I don't know that I mean do you

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think it it makes sense to say you you can't have uh offsite contract for off-site parking for any use? I mean we could do that if you want. >> Yeah. >> But I don't think I I think that's a little harsh. I think your percentage idea is something to look into. >> Yeah,

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>> sites for up to 25% or 20%. >> Exactly. Yeah, exactly. >> I mean then again we're talking this out you look at Payic Avenue and Pyroa let's after office hours people from I think

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is it just a rainforest cafe or >> I don't I don't know >> just Soma is the only thing open at that point. >> Yeah. So they allow them to park there which is nice because it gives parking. So you know I don't know >> but it being a restaurant and a B3 they

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don't it if if Sonoma went away and somebody wanted to move into that spot as a restaurant new application and based on this they wouldn't need that to get their se up. >> Okay. >> All right. But if you know if they if they spoke to Allan or or Jay and said,

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"Hey, listen. You mind if my folks after six o'clock use your lot?" They say, "Okay." Then no money changes hands. It's not a it's not a a legal document that's going to get ripped up someday because nobody paid, you know, but the requirement for the restaurant or the retail spot is zero in three and 3.

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>> That's what I That's what I did. >> Got to be careful because at this particular property in Sonoma Grill, an old owner, I caught him illegally. Bford out of bed. A whole attic. He built a whole office up in the attic. The whole entire third floor is sheetrock. And he

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was and and he was going to build an attic. It was his building. He just thought he could do it. And I could never sign a zoning permit because he's got no parking. There's not even parking for the bar. How are you going to have it's one space for every 300 square feet. It was probably 1,200 square feet

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or 1500 square feet up in that attic. It's a really big attic. So this parking requirement that to attack these like it's important to have parking for like office uses and in in that in those areas because if then you have more cars parking on enclosure.

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>> Agreed. Agreed. >> That's why we we should keep it the way it is but you limit the amount of the percentage of spaces that they can form out. >> Yeah. >> I'm not sure and maybe we should find out this answer. I look at a lot of

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zoning ordinances. I don't think every town offers a parking off premise in version in their code. I feel some towns should take the position. >> You have an ordinance to comply with parking. If you don't have enough parking, either ask for a variance or

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don't build it. I think this is something that Nutley built 30 years ago that says, you know what, we got this really cool idea to allow to fix the parking problem. Let's make this conditional use application for automobiles off premise and put it in as

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a conditional use. This way we have the vote. I don't think every town has this in their ordinance. >> Probably not. Maybe maybe they do, maybe they don't. I just want I just want us to be >> I think it goes back to what you said, Dave. That was a >> Yeah, it's an idea somebody had. Hey, I got

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>> I can think I can think of two or three people. >> One always pops in my head. Let me raise something that was Diana McGovern raised with me and I don't know if you want to discuss this tonight or do it some other time. She she was focused uh into conversations with me

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just recently about Park Avenue and the zoning over there and what it's zoned for and she pointed out if there's an area over there that's zoned for B3 according to her. She said maybe we should consider looking to make that B1 or B2 because it's it's too intense of a

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use for the >> area. >> She she mentioned Park Avenue. >> Okay. >> Maybe spot zoning. >> Well, that's what I said. I spoke to her about she she doesn't she didn't seem to think so. She didn't seem to >> you know what she what property she >> No, we didn't talk about a specific

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property because that would spot something. >> Yeah. But we didn't have to that's she just thought that well there's not that much property. >> I guess they want piece of property >> that's again back big piece of property in the back next to the shack. What was your

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question again that she had to whe >> I don't know what >> Dunkin Donuts maybe is a B3 where else >> Dunkin Donuts probably B4 by >> what about the on the corner owner of Park and

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Weston. That those little shops there. >> So, what about the Frank's old place? >> Across the street from Anx. >> So, like a garage. >> There's a signing map right there. >> Whatever that is. >> Is the ambient still functioning? Are

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they Do they still use that building? I don't know if the ambass somebody >> think it's a church on Sundays. >> That's partly church or whatever you said. >> Some churches in there. >> Some churches, >> but there's no I don't think there's an

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organization anymore. >> Is that right? Does Anvets actually own that property? >> This is the bar restaurant. >> My uncle Bill said, >> is that right? B2 Frank's old property is B2.

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>> Okay. >> I'm running out. I'm running out of space. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. So, counselor, how do we proceed to get step one done? Getting off site parking back.

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Well, if this or determines that we want that ordinance change, make the recommend. >> Okay. It would the change would simply be >> adding offsite premises uh parking uh to the conditional

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>> and that would be step one and we'll work on the any adjustments to the current per uh parking requirements after after another workshop. That make sense? >> That's fine. is now when you say adding it that's all zone or Thank you. Are you

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limiting it certain zone? >> I will now if we if we make a motion and approve uh uh just simply adding off-site parking to the conditional use list. How would this section N have to be modified?

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That's part of our communication. Thank you. >> Yeah, we're going down as a traditional use. I I'll I'll say it. I'll do the rap.

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Uh B1, B2, B3, uh A M O M. >> Well, no. Yeah, I'm saying that's all you

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>> all when I when I hit the mist. >> So, you relaxing the >> and >> you're going to relax the parking on >> All we're going to do is get >> Yeah. All we're going to do is get

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offsite parking uh off premises auto parking lot dots which is which is farm it out to parking to make parking time for your building back onto the back onto the condition of use list. Okay. >> So if anybody needs it and needs a

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barrier with building a variance for parking they have to come in front of the board. can't go through v code enforcement and we all the current parking requirements will stay as they are for now. Um because obviously we're going to need a little bit more conversation uh to get something uh more

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concrete. >> So so for example an M1 garden apartment somebody >> well it says it here. I'm just looking. >> So, it's in section, it's in article

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>> 175. >> Well, garden apartments are only allowed that were built for 2018. >> Okay. >> So, that's an M1. So, it says, but >> so this only would apply to new construction

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>> or change of use >> because I'm just looking M1 is industry and garden. So, if you're the Orla Apartments and you want to start letting people have two parking spots instead of one parking spot, now are they going to apply for a conditional use because they don't have enough parking on this on

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their block? All we're doing is forcing them to bring that to us, >> right? >> Yeah. Okay. >> We could say yes if we want to, >> but if you don't do this, they can they can come up with a document that says Mark Rit's leasing me 10 spots. Okay,

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good. Goes to D. They can't do it without coming before us. >> They can't. That's what we're doing right now. >> Okay. Right. >> Right now in every commercial zone every commercial. >> What you're changing is >> in every zone you would not be able to

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apply the zoning off. You have to apply the planning board for sharing and borrowing park. >> Right. >> And it would be a site plan application. Well, that makes sense. Let me ask you something. Uh, so we know that art in

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the R3 zone, garden apartments, garden apartments aren't allowed in. They weren't built. They had to be built before 202. But let's say in an R3, somebody wants to do town houses. It's like I think it's 24 for anything. >> I'm sorry.

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>> That shows it's a permitted. >> No, it is a permitted use. I'm talking about the park. They want to build town houses that require 50 parking spaces, but there's only 40. If we don't make make it a conditional use in that zone, they can form out the parking someplace else and bring it to you and you can

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give a permission conditional use permit. >> No. No. If you are going to you going to design a property in an R3, you have to meet the requirements for a multiple dwelling or bedroom in that for

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that property. And then if you didn't have parking, you would apply to the planning board like if the neighbor had a big parking lot or something. >> What? That's what I just said. If you >> Well, I guess the solution would if you're that applicant, shouldn't be a variance to say I don't need it. One or

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to say I believe I've got to deal with a neighbor who give me 10 spaces and I want to make that a condition. >> Right? If we are the two ways to do it, >> it would be a conditional. They have to add that >> but they can buy because if they get the the lease the document from the neighbor

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for the 10 spots they can bring it to you and you can give them the permit and that part of that that varies. >> Yeah. Well, based on this document that you gave, which is the old conditional uses, it doesn't say you have to do that in R3's own, but

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there's no X there >> in in so we should just >> I'm reading the schedule of conditional uses that you gave. This is the old one with the offsite still on it. Yeah. >> Okay. So, we would want to do all the B's and the O and the O's uh and the

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M's, I mean, and and R3 Because if if it's a if it's a townhouse, somebody buys uh somebody buys ambassets and they want to put up 30 town houses. They have to have the >> I have to think a little bit about why it's not. >> Well, it's going to be because I'm about

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to make a move. >> It could be a theory why it's not. It could be that it's not But hey, Mark, it's not permitted that they're not allowed to ask for condition to your point. If I'm building a town home in an R3,

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>> there is no I have to be the partner, >> right? That's what I don't understand. I mean, so if you're building a town home in an R3 and this is what the originals are. It's like that guy who came before us last time who who was >> so you got >> who had no he had nothing. >> Back to what Dave is saying. The choice

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there. You either meet the meet the condition. Let's say they're one ship that make makes them. You either meet the condition to have all 30 spaces that you're required to have or you have 29. You're not going to have to get a barance for the missing space. >> Yeah. That's >> So they can't they they can't they can't get it through you.

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>> I'll get it through you either back then, >> right? You said it's too you said in an R3 back in 2015 and it's not listed, >> right? >> Well, in 2015, you wouldn't be able to apply to the planning board. I just want to make sure that in an R3 zone, if

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somebody wants to put up the maximum amount of town houses on a piece of property and they don't have the required parking available on that piece of property, they can't go they can't bypass the planning. That's all I want to make sure happens. >> They can't even they would have to come for a

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>> because they you wouldn't give them a permit to build it because they're not they're not abiding by the the code. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. All right. So, I'm going to make a motion that we add off- premise auto parking lots back to our conditional use

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uh schedule of conditional uses in the following zones. R3, B1, B2, D3, E3A, B4, M O and M1. >> Second. >> Say that again. R3

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R3 >> R2. >> No, no, no. Just three. >> Okay. Uh then all the B's and >> all the B and I included three >> and I have a second. >> Um yeah, I'll call the RO please. >> Can you just explain just go over it one

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more time? So you're just in very simple terms explain to me again what you're doing. >> We're adding the possibility of leasing parking offsite of a building of a of a piece of property to satisfy the parking requirements for that building back on

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this list. So that means if they want to do that they have to come in front of us. They could the way it is now they could bypass us and go straight straight through. Now they won't be able to do that in >> Okay. So but what you're saying with new construction they have to abide by every

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comply with everything. >> They seem to think that if if if it's a if it's a townhouse they don't they can't go for it. But if it's a if it listen if if if 5:30 Franklin Avenue when he when they came here last time had a lease for 10 spots from from uh

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Mickey, we wouldn't that would not have been part of our of our of our application. >> No, you guys would hear an application just for a site plan application, >> right? But we could >> be not a parking variance. There would be no talk about parking. >> That's what I just said. Okay. So now we

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don't want that to happen. We want to be in control of what happens with the parking by adding it to this list. Anytime that situation comes in an application, that parking information has to come to us and we have to say, >> but we I thought by him standing there and saying to us that testifying that he

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didn't have the parking and we said, "Well, you don't have to park it." So, I mean, is isn't that coming before us? >> No, because he didn't come up with the contract to lease the spots. >> Okay. >> If he show if he put that application in with a lease for 10 spots from Beyond, it's not part of the application. But now he won't nobody will be able to do

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that because it'll be a conditional use now. So you can't bypass the planning board or zoning. >> Okay. Okay. >> It's amazing. It got removed all the requirements. >> I have the the >> not that amazing.

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>> 2015 not that long before they >> changed. It was it was introduced in November of 2014. Public hearing was December of 2014. >> But it doesn't matter. We're fixated there. Okay. G, please call the roll.

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>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Call uh Mr. Gb. I can see you for the for he's he's a mayor's designate.

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He gets the vote. >> I did. >> You said Mr. Gb. >> I need to pay attention more. >> Or I need to be louder. >> Maybe you need to be louder. >> 20 years ago, I wouldn't have missed that. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Oh, easy. I'll repeat.

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>> Okay. Thank you. It passes. Thank you. Now, we've had a lot of conversation about parking. I we sent out some stuff. Next time we decide to have a workshop, which might be the next meeting, we'll we'll try to dig into it. Any notes you can come up with, any information you can come up with, any research you could do will be more than helpful.

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And real quick, um I got a draft of a u potential Washington Avenue study uh that we're going to put out for uh for bid. Uh I haven't read it yet. So once I review it, I'll review it with Barry once we come up with a final uh edition of it. Uh then we're going to uh we'll

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start that movement with uh whoever wins the bid. >> What Washington Avenue property? >> Oh, you're right. You know, I'm here. Um we're gonna we're putting together a remember what we did at East Street with Cameron? We're going to do something similar >> from uh the double boiler to granite

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just to get an idea what we can do with all that stuff. It's I just got we just got a draft. Jerry just put together a draft. It's great by the way, but I'm going to read it really uh really in detail. Uh, counselor, are you uh have anything else to report? >> Uh, no. That should be this evening.

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Yeah. >> Any other conversations, questions, answers, mood remarks? >> No. I'll entertain a motion. >> I move, sir. >> I second it. Let's go. Watch some I have a patient.