##VIDEO ID:iDQUW0YcL70## tonight greetings and welcome to the Planning Commission regular meeting November 7th 2024 uh call to order and call for rooll Pearson here Will and bring here Campbell here moli is absent had a personal issue to address uh Wilson here diata also had a personal issue to address and Hagen here okay thank you very much Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of aliance to the United States of America stand na indivisible withy and justice for all uh there's a modification would like to do for the agenda is move council member Inger brion's update up to uh item right after open Forum so move second all in favor I uh pass the agenda as approved uh approval of the minutes anyone have any comments or changes to the minutes these are for August 1st 2024 hearing none I'll look for a motion to approve the minutes so moved second second thank you all those in favor I all those opposed you'll abstain okay uh open four Forum uh this is the time when people can come forward to speak to any item that's not on the agenda so I will open the Forum see no one in the audience I guess I'll close the open Forum right now thank you council member gson just a couple of quick updates um the Tanner Lake Pro development uh continues to move ahead uh we're working diligently to get that done as soon as possible and uh the other thing um we did uh we did have a workshop item for was it a PUD Amendment behind Forefront for the apartments or was it just zoning which one um the Forefront PUD Amendment yeah um developer is interested in putting Apartments actually behind the Forefront building basically between the building and the Willowbrook homes um there's a parcel land there that's not great for commercial or Warehouse so uh the council seem pretty receptive to it so those are the two updates I have you guys have anything for me thank you y uh Planning Commission review this new business a public hearing on an ordinance amendment to add definitions and designate appropriate zoning districts for cannabis businesses thank you chair so I will Tee It Up and then I'll hand it over to to Max who actually knows what he's talking about on this topic um in terms of the regulations so uh yeah let me clarify that uh so a little bit of introduction here so the the state approved an adult use cannabis bill last year to legalize cannabis businesses and adult use of cannabis the legislature also created the ocm so that's the office of cannabis management the state agency responsible for um regulating the industry and state statute limits the regulations that cities can impose on uh adult use cannabis type uses but however uh cities can still adopt reasonable restrictions on the operations for these businesses and limit the number of establishments in their corporate boundaries but the use itself cannot be prohibited so in other words the city cannot outright zone or the city can't zone out this type of use uh the city of Oakdale adopted a moratorium for cannabis related businesses in September of 2023 and this um act it was done in anticipation of the state establishing applicable regulations and ahead of cannabis businesses being able to operate in Oakdale the city is bringing forward proposed an excuse me a proposed amendment for new cannabis related definitions and also designating certain zoning districts where uses would be appropriate so the uh there is a draft ordinance that we'll go through in just a moment and it follows the ocm guidelines and also State the the cannabis bill the draft was prepared by the city attorney's office and a couple other things here cannabis businesses must be properly licensed through the state and when the state receives an application they will notify the city of the request and the city will have to certify that the zoning is appropriate for the business and the location and also U building and fire code if that's applicable to the site as well just for compliance so other portions of the Cities ordinance uh for example chapter n that's business license regulations that will be updated as well to address this type of use um and and those chapters will be reviewed by the city council so essentially we're just focusing on chapter 25 the zoning section of our ordinance and with that I will hand it off to Max yep thanks Luke and I'll just walk through some components of the ordinance and exactly what is changing and uh just as a reminder this is in particular looking at uh the definitions of cannabis and then which districts within the city are appropriate for it other components that will be um govern cannabis that cities are allowed to change including operation of business hours the number of stores and then any buffer requirements from certain types of businesses uh those will be handled by our City's licensing department and uh that chapter is likely to be amended at the Second City counc council meeting later this month so walking through um here we have the general zoning districts for the city of Oakdale so we've added in a few definitions sorry to interrupt you um so what you're seeing there on the screen the the red text that's underlined that is new proposed text and the um existing sections of the ordinance that is just in the regular black text so we have a number of new business types that we're adding into the definitions and these definitions come directly from the state and pertain to the various types of licenses that will be given out by the office of cannabis management first we have cannabis cultivation business um so that's going to be anyone growing operating in the growth of cannabis curing packaging Etc um that also does include cannabis meso businesses which uh functions similarly to in a way where how breweries uh create the liquor on site and then also sell it on site uh a meso business would grow on site and then sell the product directly to Consumers on site as well cannabis delivery is another definition we have here so that's going to be wholesale or a direct consumer Transportation cannabis combination um that's similar to that meso bus um component where that would include both growth and direct retail sales cannabis lounges so this is not like a smoking lounge or a hookah lounge this would be solely for uh consuming cannabis via Edibles drinks or other forms of um hemper cannabis products that are not smoked cannabis or hemp industrial businesses so that's going Encompass generally that production process and uh deliveries Manufacturing ing packaging um medical growing Etc uh just a note that we're not likely to see much in way of cultivation here in the Metro uh given that we don't have much Farmland available uh within the more urban and Suburban cities in the seven County area uh however it is possible that we could see a request for uh cultivation and growth in a industrial setting so that that's why we have included these additionally we have cannabis retailer or hemp retailers so that's just going to be your direct to Consumer uh retail operations and that includes uh lower potency hemp Edibles so those are the products that you are seeing now on the market say at liquor stores or gas stations those are not technically cannabis products they are derived from the hemp plant and have to meet various regulations to be under a certain percentage of THC by weight so as we move on um we can look at where these businesses are proposed to be located um so someone had asked about where our districts line up in the city I did pull up a copy of the zoning map so here we have um the city's zoning map uh generally these red areas are going to be our commercial districts so that's neighborhood commercial and Community commercial and then up here is where most of our heavy industry is concentrated and the other lighter gray throughout the city that's going to be industrial office so with that in mind um in the neighborhood commercial setting uh we are proposing that cannabis lounges be permitted as well as general cannabis retail C2 is what the majority of our commercial Parcels are so that allows for the majority of consumer facing uh retail products goods and services so here we have cannabis Lounge as well in addition to cannabis or hemp retailer and these do not include the meso businesses that contain both growth and Retail operations in addition uh we have some proposals for the industrial office District so that's includes cannabis delivery and transportation and cannabis lounges as well um and for the general industrial district which functions similar to a heavy industrial district that is where uh we would allow um growth operations including cannabis combination businesses and general uh cannabis or hemp industrial businesses which includes that growth component so that sums up the majority of or that sums up all of the changes that are being proposed within the zoning ordinance and with that I'd be happy to take any questions and as a reminder this is a public hearing you've got references all throughout this about city code 918 - 185 what's that say why is it in here in all these what's what's what's that restricting that we can't see right now yeah so that is a chap that has not been finalized yet um there's an early draft available in a council Workshop packet from a while ago but uh ultimately that would be the licensing component that we described earlier which would pertain to the actual business regulations State Statute states that uh those need to be handled through licensing rather than zoning and that's going to include the components such as the hours of which those businesses can operate how far they should be from uh certain businesses or including schools parks where children might play um Child Care Centers uh treatment facilities so there's a buffer component that we're allowed to put in um that draft will include that as well as um whether or not there will be a uh limit on the number of businesses within the city and again that has to be handled through licensing rather than zoning now this sort of crosses over into our next area the night but I see in the current one cannabis is allowed in C1 it's allowed in C2 it's allowed in general industrial but I noticed that in the one coming up tonight it's not allowed under mixed use where we have like clubs lodges breweries distilleries uh taverns tap rooms they're all allowed in mixed use so they conform over to what we're looking at now now but cannabis doesn't go into mix use in the future one so why is that an outlier from these related businesses thank you Vice chair that's a really good question um with the H KGI comprehensive code update project when we first started that project we weren't sure what cannabis regulations the city would take on um so we were looking to update those in the districts later on once the city um Council had determined some direction um so ultimately we drafted those those um use tables that say the different types of businesses that are permitted uh we first started that about a month ago when we weren't sure where this ordinance would be headed we can absolutely update that to accommodate it because again part of part of the component with State Statute is we can't Zone these businesses out of business um so we want to make sure that we do address that in the zoning code update and has there been anything added into our ordinance right now that the city added that deviates from what the state has been proposing or is this pretty much boiler plate from the state on everything here this is largely um from the state and it was drafted by our legal department um so this is in compliance with everything that's listed in the adult use cannabis act since you covered all my questions I have a question um so what about people growing it in their yards so that would be handled by the state um that's not okay yeah uh generally here we're looking at business regulations um in terms of home home growth or anything like that uh that's largely handled by the office of cannabis management the city does have an ordinance that was passed in Fall of 2023 um that restricts where you can smoke cannabis um to P only in private areas not public are areas so not sidewalks not parking lots that are accessible to the general public um not businesses much more of a residential setting we do have that uh regulation on personal consumption but otherwise most regulations are handled by the state I have a comment um looking at the different districts it doesn't look like we call out any district for cannabis cultivation business uh I was I noticed that also but it's I think both cultivation falls under cultivation and the last category of business activity yeah cultivation also falls under the definition for um cannabis or hemp industrial business which is allowed uh as proposed in the general industrial district it's right here I just no I I understand that but we have a specific definition for cannabis cultivation business in all of the zoning districts we call out all of the other definitions this is the one definition that we don't call out just as as somebody who deals with cities and technicalities and I'm I'm trying to find the Nuance if we are o if we're comfortable with a cannabis cultivation business in the industrial district then I would propose we just add it as you know number eight cannabis cultivation business as we've defined it in the definitions mhm yeah if you'd like to recommend that for um the general industrial district I think that's something staff would be open to we'd want to make sure to check with City legal um given that they were the primary writers of this ordinance as drafted and it is still in that draft form so um we can check with them after this and make sure that that uh either it's intentional or it's an error and then we add it in yep and I'm fine if you just check and then update Council when they look to adopt no that's a that's a good catch thank you anyone else since it's a uh public hearing I now open the public hearing uh again seeing there there's no one in the in the public in the room I will close the public hearing BR back any final comments from anyone I look for the motion then to recommend approval of an ordinance amendment to chapter 25 zoning amending articles 2 12 13 14 and 15 to add definitions and designate appropriate zoning districts for cannabis businesses did you want to amend that I'm okay as is so long as staff talks with legal and then if it needs to go in there they'll ad update it before Council I look for someone to to move and second then so move I will second all those in favor I I any opposed motion passes next is the zoning subdivision code update discussion thank you chair so have the slides up here in just a moment so as the commission may recall the city has been working on updating our zoning and subdivision regulations since earlier this here um we've been working with a consultant on this project it's quite an extensive project um kind of a daunting project and but um we're we're coming back to the Planning Commission for some some feedback and there'll be another opportunity or more opportunities in the uh in the days to come for this project and providing feedback on it so the things that we want to talk about this this evening with the commission are there on the screen so number one is the zoning districts and then Ed tap and specific standards dimensional standards including lots and building standards and also U just some other key development standards that we want to touch on so like I said we've been working with a consultant H KGI they're planning in design consulting firm they have a lot of experience with these uh code updates and code audits if you will uh and uh we've been um focused on primarily chapter 25 zoning and uh chapter 21 subdivision but we also look at other chapters uh as well including uh the planning and uh Planning Development section of our code and our trees so here is just a high Lev look at the schedule so the code diagnosis that began earlier this year back in March and it concluded in June uh staff and H KGI have been drafting portions of the code since June and that continues to be on going and then we're kind of in this phase three where we're bringing uh the updates to the Planning Commission and city council for review and feedback and then we anticipate adoption early next year so um before moving on to the proposed changes we just kind of want to cover some of the community engagement that we've done to date and admittedly obtaining feedback on this project is pretty difficult given the highly technical nature of the the city's zoning Ordnance uh but we have met with developers and realators Builders Architects Engineers um and um Landscape Architects in particular too businesses folks who have done projects in Oakdale they they've went through the land use approval process we we really wanted to engage with them and get their feedback um we've been working with the Chamber of course advisory bodies Planning Commission e uh Economic Development commission and the tree board and uh like I mentioned we we engage past applicants who who have gone through our process so they they've um kind of discovered where some portions of the code just don't make sense or maybe some portions which which they like we do currently have an online questionnaire that is open to the public through November 15th and that the link for that survey is included in the agenda packet and um yeah as Commissioners you're more than welcome to take the the questionnaire the survey so uh one of the big things that we've done is to revise the zoning districts um currently if you look at at our ordinance it's all in text form um each chapter is kind of like a standalone PDF and what HGI kind of specializes in is uh formatting things into tables that way it's very easy to see understand and compare across from one zoning District to to another so as you can see here um the the table there the left hand side are existing zoning districts there are 14 of them and then on the right hand side or the right column are the proposed zoning districts and we're proposing uh reducing those down to 10 uh so we propose reducing the residential districts from six to 5 and that is really done also to better align the uh the use the zoning districts with the future land use categories of the city's comprehensive plan we're proposing a mixed use zoning District to align with the um the comp plan as well which calls for mixed use future land which contains a mixed use uh future land use category and uh that type of a zoning District would provide a lot of flexibility that developers are seeking we're proposing to consolidate the C1 and C2 districts and those are our um commercial zoning districts and we also want to consolidate the lb that's limited business and G Gateway districts there's very few of those Parcels throughout Oakdale and we want to consolidate them we want to eliminate the tower district and uh simplify that by just allowing Communications Towers in certain zoning districts mainly the um heavy heavy industrial and general industrial zoning districts or or what's we're going to refer to as B3 and B4 we also want to convert Wetland based districts to an overlay District I mean that's kind of a best practice in uh most communities and finally we want to update districts with our abbreviations to follow a consistent naming practice so for example B1 2 three and so on yeah so I'll walk through some of the use tables um and these are included in your packet it's it can be very hard to see this level of detail on with the tables um on the screen there so I'd recommend taking a look at those and there's so much information included in those so if you you look through that and later tonight you think this seems out of line or I'd like to see this included or perhaps why did you include this and not that um please feel free to email me or Luke and we can get that feedback and then make changes from there as this is all still in draft State maybe I'm um saying this too soon but what do the P's and the C's mean should they've added the key for us on the display not in the do document unfortunately yeah I was confused by that as well yeah I can walk through that quick as well um so p is permitted by right um so that's a use where it's allowed within that zoning district with no special standards PS is permitted with standards so it's allowed if you can meet certain criteria so there might be extra regulations say if for um different types of businesses depending in on the nature of the business C is conditional use those are the permits that um where it's allowed but we have to make sure that it's a good fit and it meets specific criteria we hold public hearings for those if you recall um Planning Commission meetings where people came in to build oversized garages or second garages or home businesses um those are all conditional use permits we've done in the past so here we really focused on putting it into a more readable table format right now they're all separate PDFs and then we tried to consolidate our existing standards into just one article uh this reflects a lot of best modern practices we're seeing cities change to this table approach quite a bit um we also updated the dimensional standards so th that's the lot size lot width Etc um of Any Given lot in the city based on what zoning District it's in and that's included in the packet as well and somewhat hard to see on screen um here we tried to make that easier to read again right now those are all in separate PDF files um and we did make a few changes that I'll go over in a moment sorry um is there a map we can look at to see where these zones are um I can switch uh we still have that zoning map um pulled up give me just a moment it's hard to see so I recommend taking a taking a look at this maybe after the meeting as this can really give a good idea of where the different zones of the city are located um this map is admittedly some of the colors blend together especially on a screen far away um so I can also send you an easierto read map after this meeting thank you uh generally the yellows and oranges are residential um so that orange forgive me I have to do this just looking at the projector so that's a more intensive residential district whereas the lighter ones are um less intensive and are they um labeled R1 R2 they are on the map they are um right now for some reason it's rendering in the smartphone version uh so it's hard to click on these individual ones um commercial is red green is PUD those are special zoning districts with a bit more flexibility um and purple down here that's that's Gateway District that one Luke brought up where there's just a handful so we're looking to consolidate that and what is the Gateway District uh the Gateway district is a special district that's only on this part uh just Northwest W of the intersection of 94 and 694 um that's been an empty lot for quite a long time I think the intent behind the gateway district and Again Luke and I weren't here when the Gateway District was first drafted was to try to attract and restrict it to more of a um large corporate office campus or um large state-of-the-art office facility uh with postco realities um we're not sure as staff that that can still will happen um so we're looking at still allowing that but maybe expanding it a bit that all hop back into the presentation so these dimensional standards have again been updated uh to be a bit easier to read we did make some changes that'll go over in a moment so we tried to improved the clarity and consistency um right now there are some standards that are Inc districts and aren't and others for example um some of the existing R districts the residential districts uh require a c maximum amount of impervious surfaces and others do not um and there isn't a lot of consistency there so we've tried to update that uh we're trying to accommodate more modern infill developments um that have really shifted in the market in recent years so if you think of the Willowbrook neighborhood those are on narrower Lots than a lot of the city most of the city is 80 ft wide um and a lot of those are 4050 60 so we're exploring the idea of allowing 50ft Lots in some of the denser single family neighborhoods of Oakdale um not all districts uh we're looking to provide flexibility while still offering City discretion on larger projects and uh just generally better differentiate things so I mentioned that a little bit we're proposing A reduced minimum lot size in the denser single family District R3 which does allow some other uses as well as well as reducing that requirement for the um dense multifam District R4 we are proposing increasing the maximum Building height uh for the densest District up to 60 ft but only with a conditional use permit this is to accommodate right now it's 40 feet um under any conditions so it's made it so that all all of the apartments we're seeing in Oakdale right now are only located in planned unit developments uh the we've heard that it's very hard to meet the requirements in that multif family District uh without needing a lot of variances and generally variances are hard to get from the state uh per state statute uh you have to really show that there's something related to the property uh that's preventing you from being able to meet those requirements so we're exploring the idea of uh making that a bit more flexible we eliminated the minimum lot depth just in that if you have a minimum lot width and you have a minimum lot size largely the depth doesn't really serve a purpose uh just in that you're already governing the shape and size of that lot that's just another constraint there we added minimum distances between buildings to all districts uh previously that was only in a few and again we mentioned this earlier but added a maximum impervious surface coverage limit to um residential districts that previously did not Happ it maybe we we can pause there if there is any questions on the zoning districts or the dimensional standards I got one question this is just in the back of my head from what I thought I heard r in the legislature last year that they were going to not allow cities to keep high density out of residential area is do you know anything more on that on where that's at with the legislature and how that would affect us yeah I was following that bill um earlier when it was being proposed ultimately it fell through as there wasn't enough support in either the house or Senate um to get that passed and that would have required um duplex and anywhere where single family homes are allowed and would have allowed uh apartments by right anywhere where you can build commercial structures like strip malls or single tenant commercial buildings um we don't need to worry about that anymore then right yeah least not now it does not apply um and again we can we don't know about future legislative sessions again that's always up in the air but um if I had to guess I'd say it's something pretty unlikely I do just a vocabulary again infill development what does that mean yeah infill um regard references uh development in areas where there's already quite a bit of development but maybe there was a lot that sat empty for a long time or there was an unusually large lot that someone split off so sometime we had one last year for example where we had a very very old lot that forever for whatever reason had been empty for a long time in Oakdale and we had someone come in and build a single family home there in an existing neighborhood one question on your maximum impervious surface coverage mhm 24% for a single unit uh home seems seems to be tight do we have anybody that would be negatively impacted by that at this moment so I believe that's for the proposed R1 district is that right the the 24% so and I do believe that's already in place the I would argue that that's actually quite High I if you had a you think about a 1acre lot you would have almost a 10,000 foot home just on one level and you could still comply with that 24% it just seemed it seemed tight in in thinking about people with a pad for RV or something as well as a detached garage and a home it seemed that that might be a little tight for a number of lots I just was wondering if there's anybody would be hit by that now we have had very few instances where a homeowner or a builder is trying or they want to Pro propose some type of new Improvement and they're they're running into that um maximum lot coverage we've seen that very few times and in particular the R1 District those are our largest single family home uh properties in Oakdale so um they they tend to be quite large as and just to clarify though any of these changes if you are an existing residential home business what have you and you no longer fit into these new requirements you become a legally non-conforming use so we don't go in and we don't tell you hey sorry your house is too too big now you got to knock it down or hey you got to do such and such you just you're kind of grandfathered in correct that would be correct we've also added language into the introductory Provisions chapter and this text will become available once we've um finalized the draft we'll send it to everyone on a platform that allows you to comment directly on what we've written um we've added language that states that um these rules that we're adopting today apply to every development starting today and everything passed before this um is legal within the previous ones and this is also something I think we've worried about as staff and we've tried to take care to make sure that um we aren't creating those non-conforming properties I would say for the vast vast majority of districts uh we would actually be accommodating more current non-conforming properties and bringing them into Conformity um for example a lot of the uh Tanner lake neighborhood um many many of those lots can't meet the current standards and we can't guarantee that all of them would but there would be ones that would meet that standard after some of these changes okay I have a couple questions here sure uh 27 foot side setback for manufactured home parks it just seems an odd number I'm curious how we got to that versus 25 or 30 P yeah that um is an error I apologize um we must have used an old spreadsheet by accident uh because we went through and noticed that that is a very very odd number and specifically corrected those in our most recent draft um so that should read uh I want to say we set it to 10 to be consistent with other districts because we want to make sure we're not singling out any specific district and then for Building height do we have any mechanism to allow um the height to be exceeded via Towers or you know anything it's something that I just run into my job we have we have Towers on the building and it always trips us up because they take the the height of that versus you know 90% of the building is at 20 ft or as an example yeah we're looking to clarify the way that we measure um from top to bottom and also we do have a provision right now in the existing code that allows Towers spires other architectural features and religious uses um we were considering removing that religious component anyone else have questions I think the only comment I had was just the eliminating of lot depth for some reason I think about like a new apartment complex coming up and having I know the height for a car to park underneath the complex I of maybe just a like reasoning there or yeah we do have minimum parking requirements so that way they based on the number of units they have to provide um a certain amount of parking uh and there's other components as well to make sure that we're not just creating a sea of asphalt okay you another component would be a required building setback or the the required distance that a building has to be from a lot the nearest lot line uh so by default those types of Provisions would ensure that you know you're not getting a a building that that's just there's no no wiggle room there so have we considered any parking setbacks as well parking setbacks let me check here to I mean just kind of to force that Landscaping you know landscape buffer around a property I believe the some of the existing industrial districts have that um something we can look into primarily for the business districts obviously okay we'll chot that down yeah as Max was alluding to we actually have some um parking lot setback requirements currently so we'll just make sure that they they do follow follow through and and get relayed into this new code update okay okay unless for any any questions we can move on to the next section here the 2025 draft Planning Commission work plan oh I'm sorry we're still on this one oh he just paused okay we got a seven more slides so bear with us just just a moment yeah this is this is very dense material and we recognize that so so um speaking my language we have a handful of uh General development standards that we're also looking at updating along with with the zoning districts and those dimensional standards so performance standards exterior design standards or architecture parking loading circulation sidewalks and U similar infrastructure tree preservation Landscaping screening fencing and lighting and in particular we want to focus on three of those so the exterior design standards the parking and the landscaping and we have a series of questions um but but first U maybe some information to kind of Tee It Up here uh for parking So currently we calculate Park uh calculating parking can be quite difficult with our current uh zoning code uh for example in the if you take the industrial warehousing parking requirements those are based on Peak employment shifts which can vary and can change when whenever one business um uh moves out and a new business comes in another example would be multifam parking requirements is is done by or calculated by by uh bedroom units as opposed to dwelling units so the the breakdown can be a little tricky to work with at times um so through our analysis and working with h KGI we've identified that the current requirements for parking appear to exceed modern needs and we're proposing also consolidating parking standards uh again from that PDF format you know one page uh and containing a bunch of text and organizing it into a table so you can uh quickly turn to that section and compare you know one category to the next it just helps um with readability usability and uh kind of alluding to this item here is that we're proposing to reduce the minimum spaces so any thoughts from the commission on just generally reducing the number of parking spaces for development been a hot topic for most of the people who building last couple of years so I think we've gone over this quite often so I would I I think it's important that we have a mechanism to be able to modify the parking requirements I've worked in municipalities where you know they're because of some of the old stand you know the old language hey you have to have six or 800 parks for your business which is just just way Overkill now it's a specific type of business but those municipalities did not have any mechanism to adjust so you end up building this excess sea of parking um even in here I think there's still quite a bit you know under apartment dwelling as an example an additional half space per unit should be provided for visitor visitor parking 100 unit building with 50 visitor stalls plus all of your standard you know tenant stalls that seems like a lot um so maybe something for that you maybe it's a graduated scale you know under 50 units you have x 75 units you have y 100 units and and it goes kind of down as those unit counts go up but generally speaking lowering parking counts I'm not inherently opposed to one thing um with that uh the spaces listed in here um the new ones we unfortunately got that pretty close to when this meeting was happening um but Luke and I have already identified uh we'd like to explore like for a flat r rate for units and apartment buildings to simplify that while we can still accommodate guest parking we don't want to call it out separately we'd rather roll that into one if we can um otherwise looking into mechanisms we can absolutely ask our um consultant if they've done that before and what other cities might be a good model into allowing for flexibility if it just the type of business doesn't work with that amount of parking I don't know if this makes sense but I've seen a number of codes that really simplify this down and you know say like retail one per 250 or you and it's just this big catchall for a lot of these uses again I don't know that we want to get that specific but maybe something to consider yeah I think I think we're headed in that direction in some ways for example in the this is somewhat related to the uses um use table but in our existing zoning code it calls out every single kind of business specifically we call out things as specific as um sheet music stores and uh Photo Labs so we're moving to just a definition that encompasses just retail and then business services and so we'd hope to do that with some other categories and streamline the parking requirements that go with it any other thoughts on parking before we move on okay so Landscaping one of the things that we're looking at doing is to consolidate and clarify the standards um we've heard it from some experts Landscape Architects that our regulations can be a little bit challenging to to work with even to interpret we want to right siiz the minimum number of trees that are required for development so our current standard is One Tree per 800 square feet of landscape green area uh like I said that can be difficult to calculate and that can um also vary by veryy U by the site the the the layout of the site the design um we want to consider reducing the requirements or explore a different metric just for um ease of understanding and a couple things that we're proposing here or kicking around the idea of is utilizing the the building footprint size to determine the number of trees that would have to be planted or the site perimeter being the uh just uh the boundaries of a a site has to be um provided X number of trees so any strong opinions on the proposed metrics that we're using just to give an example of a complexity with the one tree per 800 square ft in a lot of the commercial districts you're allowed to build up to say 90% impervious surface um leaving just 10% of landscape green area on a smaller site that can lead to actually very few trees being required site perimeter seems a a bit vague as well because the perimeter could be all four sides on a one building and one side on another so that may have to be a little more defined than that okay I think you're you're talking though I mean any any site it has generally four sides you're just adding up the perimeter of that and then C it's just a simple calculation I I'm more in favor of the site perimeter versus building size because I think you know if I put a 10 ,000 foot building or a 30,000 foot building my site is still the same I should I feel to some extent I should have to landscape it the same regardless of the size of the building I put on there because I don't want to don't want to put a a tiny little building on this big site and then it's just a sea of sod because I didn't have to my building was so small I only needed to put in three trees like that do we have a fee in L uh I don't believe that we have a fee in L but you have to if you're going to deviate from from the requirements and you would have to um seek a variance from Council for this because that's something that I've seen before is you know we couldn't we just physically couldn't fit any more trees on the site and so I think we were short six or eight or something like that and the city had a fe andl program where we wrote them a check they put it into their tree fund and then plant trees somewhere else within the community it's interesting that that that that's an interesting point because we do have a a fe andl for our tree preservation requirements which is not quite what we're talking about in this context um but yeah so there is precedent in other Parks yeah yeah we can keep rolling along here so exterior design standards or architecture of buildings and currently our standards apply to commercial industrial and public buildings we allow or we have three categories or classes for uh exterior surface materials and um U they are classes one two and three they're at the bottom um how the classes work class one is is understood to be as some of the more durable materials that you could have on the exterior of a building such as brick or stone and then as you move down the down the classifications two and three so an example of class two would be um eephus or exterior uh insulation finishing systems um some of that uh kind of uh basically like stucko stucko thank you yep and then class three would be uh wood for example is is would fall under that category uh so as you can see from that table office and Commercial requires a minimum of 70% class one and then uh it can consist of 30% Class 2 or three and then industrial Warehouse minimum 60% uh and that can be class one or two and then a maximum of only 40% class three uh so you may recall that there have been uh deviations from these requirements for uh recent development proposals and they've kind of been a topic of interest between both staff and and the commission and the city council so we do have a series of question questions for you here um so the first one are some of the minimum and maximum requirements a little too specific yes should there be more flexibility to allow allow fewer classer one materials on building facades that are less visible from the public right away that was one of my thoughts hey if you can't see it you know can I just do a class two ephas along the back of the building you know that seems to make a lot of sense doesn't negate the need to to have your 70% on your public facing facades but and and things like that dog shelter we just had up recently I mean they only needed doggy doors on it and they wanted them to put materials around these doors that the dogs are going to ruin anyways and it's like the code didn't really give any leeway to get around that it's like I think besides the building itself what is the purpose of the building and you should have maybe a way to your do your design standards around the purpose of the building too I recall on that one we had a problem on the face Street facing side as well that was it like 2 or 3% of the materials she was short on something but it was glass Windows uh that one was too tight I think that she that that should the design as prepared there I think should have been allowed because it was meeting appearance requirements basically but not this the letter of the the rule right I think the technicality was that the materials around the the door frames and the windows do not count towards your your class one requirements [Music] uh the next question here is there interest in the uh exterior surface materials requirements for U being applied to residential buildings so for example multifam or possibly single family um and also accessory buildings such as sheds and garages I guess I wouldn't the way I would interpret it is multif family is falling into that kind of business Commercial type category and so they're required to meet those types of criteria I don't think it doesn't appear to be an issue in single family residential or like duplexes or anything like that so I don't know that we need to chase a solution for a problem that isn't there same with the accessory buildings stepping back to that last question though too about class materials materials are changing all the time you have new materials come online and I think we need to have a better way when something meets a standard but it's not listed in our thing to be able to get that in there agre one of the one of the questions that's always been in mind mind we select three three categories of them why are we selecting it is it mostly for appearance and trying to keep Conformity uh maybe there's a better way of expressing it so that it doesn't so that new materials don't necessarily fall outside of the category and be and not be allowed I think the the original uh thought process behind it was durability more so than appearance but appearance is also a big factor with the types of materials that are are required for the um particularly commercial buildings one of the again and I apologize it's just my experience so it's what I can go back to um you know the the product that I work on we use an aluminum metal paneling on our building and we find that in a lot of cities we get hung up on it and they want us to you they don't allow it they want us to use a different material and to Tom's point it's a durable long-term material that's going to be on that building for the next 25 30 years without any problems so we need to make sure that we have a mechanism to allow those types of things um with to your question about accessory buildings I would just say the accessory building needs to be comparable and kind of use the same materials as the primary structure if your primary structure 70% class one and brick stone and glass and things like that that's what your accessory building has to be if you're accessory building or if your primary structure is a residential home and you've got you know vinyl sighing your accessory building should be something comparable is there maybe a percentage that you might have in mind I am not a big fan of limiting what residents can do on their own homes City's already in your business enough so I mean that's getting down to like do we want to make them use aluminum sighting or steel sighing you know it's starting to get new picky on N residential I think I think at least on the commercial side I don't it's just you know whatever the standard is on the primary structure that's your standard on the accessory structure okay no those are good points more questions here and again these pertain to exterior design standards so should some additional surface materials be allowed based on appearance durability and lower environmental impacts and we have a series of examples here architectural metal wall panel systems fiber cement wall panel systems Eis as I mentioned earlier veneer masonry Wall Systems both full and thin veneer uh so to be clear the example shown on the screen right now we do not consider those class one materials but open open to your suggestions if you maybe this would would fall under the class one category guess I go back to my metal example I would argue architectural metal wall panel systems could fall into a class one I think everything else is is probably still a solidly class two material ephus feels like it needs to be at least you know above a 42 in plane just because it's you know it's it's essentially just a thin layer of Stucco over a sheet of insulation you know and so it's easily damaged and if you make it too accessible then you're just creating I mean what we're trying to get to is as you said Longevity if I bring that down to the grade you know it's easily damaged and then now you've got to have the property owner repairing it and it becomes issues and things like that so there's still there's still at least again on the commercial side a base level of those class one solid materials that we need to have okay realize we don't have Mike here and he would have some expertise and a lot of thoughts on this uh discussion as well one more set of questions for exterior design standards So currently our zoning code prohibits pre-engineered B metal buildings um yet they are not defined and uh kind of similarly as U or not similarly but um on the topic of metals Superior Metals are considered class one materials how should these types of metals be defined we've struggled with this as staff as proposals have come through recently and what a limitation on the amount of metal on the exterior of a building be more appropriate so for example know building cannot have more than 25% metal and maybe that'd be a way of simplifying allowing metal on the exterior of a building are you talking about like um shipping containers or some of these things you can see on Amazon the tiny homes weab is that what you mean not necessarily the shipping container situation um but like a commercial building that is uh What uh would be con it would consist mostly of metal and sometimes uh the the developers definition of the metal material used does not align with uh what staff interprets to be a class one metal for example I don't know if that makes sense um there's just a discrepancy or um a disagreement in terms of what metal is classified as as a class one which is why I was coming with the same is it based on appearance or durability as you brought up where in there are we really trying to draw a line mhm and then those two considerations kind of blend together they kind of conflict at times as well and so so if we allowed a preab metal building I'm thinking like the Morton Building Systems those types of things um you could inherently I mean you could presumably still say you have to meet the 70% class one materials so you can drop this prefab building in but you're going to have to clad the whole thing in Brick Stone glass and you know decorative Metals so it's it's it's almost a way of allowing it but you're still forcing ultimately traditional architecture because you lose some of the savings when you have to clad it back in those materials right is it is that a big issue have you had a lot of have we had a lot of people come in trying to do kind of preab metal buildings I would say uh just within the last year you know we've struggled with this the most uh just with a a couple developments you know the developer saying that you know arguing the point that what they're proposing is is not pre like a pre-engineered type structure it's a superior metal whereas staff uh don't does not quite see it that way Ian even on um our um a recent multif family proposal con uh the exterior of that building consisted of a a portion of um I'm forgetting what type of metal it was but um there there is still kind of that dispute or um conflicting viewpoints that you know the material the developer saying it's it's a higher level of material and staff interpreting it um differently so how do you ultimately decide what's a superior metal and what's not do you have a is there a guide book that tells you what it is or is it subjective or so under our current code were you going to say some Ma I I think that's something we're struggling with as staff as we look at these components of the code So currently if there is a proposal on the table the first thing that we do is as staff is take it to our development Review Committee and that just consists of you know planning staff building engineering uh Public Safety none of us are Architects so we we just don't have quite that specialty um some if a development proposal goes through the process you know the developer could make the case to the city council that you know a material is a Class one or it's a superior metal type um the other thing that we've done as staff is for some of these proposals we've worked with a consultant to get a third um third party outside opinion on it but we're yeah we're still struggling with this I am I guess I'm more concerned about Metals as part of the Finish system versus a prefab metal building I I just to me it does that doesn't seem like it's a huge issue yeah there's probably going to be some developers that want to do it but you maybe we're not the right City for you but I would like to be able to allow metal finishes because as again to Tom's Point materials are continually changing and there's always new Innovations and I don't want to have to tell people it just has to be brick and Stone besides that then your city looks like brick and stone and everything looks the same that's kind of what it's kind of what we're going for to some extent though a little bit but yeah if everything looked like your beline station and you got them on you know so I think that wraps it up for the questions that we have but happy to hear more thoughts or if you have questions um I'm just wondering is there a a rule about sidewalks and when they have to put in sidewalks and developments um and just when I first moved here that was a huge problem because we 50th Street didn't have a sidewalk and my kids I mean we lived really close to the school but it was too dangerous for them to walk there and and then you see what's happened on Century it's like a nightmare people try to walk and they're risking their life I'm just wondering is are there ordinances or rules about that putting in sidewalks when you have a lot of especially with density but even without take yeah um so we do have some requirements including uh when land is subdivided the issue there is most of the land has been subdivided in the city um a lot of our planed unit developments so um think by Target or down by the bus Rapid Transit stations um the Tanner site we have required that um sidewalks be installed comprehensively in um particularly in the bus areas as well as Tanners um and with each new project in Oakdale uh Marketplace that's uh where Target is we've required additional sidewalks be installed um I also worked on a project for for our um bike and pedestrian plan for the city I'd be happy to send you a copy um in which we analyzed as a part of that project where are our sidewalks where are our Trails where are we seeing the most accidents fatalities and what gaps are we seeing where are the destinations where we really need this so each time a project comes up in one of those areas where there's a big gap that's something that we really try to prioritize is making sure that the Gap is filled um Century Avenue was the biggest takeaway from that study it has a very high accident rate a high fatality rate um it's where the majority of pedestrian accidents were concentrated throughout the entire city uh the issue there is it's a state road um they will be studying that road uh in the next few years for an eventual um Road Project the state will and so we're hoping to really engage and be hard to make sure that we get some sort of pedestrian infrastructure along that Corridor just given what we hear from the community and all of the issues we've had along there thank you other questions before we wrap up here comments you said there was a survey online somewhere yes and the survey link is actually in the packet let's see if I can find that really quick if you also go to the front page of Oakdale am.gov um it's towards the there's some squares towards the bottom and it should be one of the first ones it's a quick survey and we made it for the general population or general public using a lot of images trying to just make it as understandable easy to use as possible yeah the park sa survey was a bear to get through much simpler than than that one yes I think we estimate this one at about five minutes uh it's nowhere near the level of in the weeds detail that we've had tonight so to conclude up this um again we're working on writing the actual text and we will share that once the code text has been drafted um we're looking to review that again November and December and hopefully adopt in the early part of next year uh happy to take any additional code update questions otherwise uh we can move on as well to the next business anyone have any further questions didn't see anything in here about chicken coops technically within the animals chapter so uh outside of the scale of this different chapter yes okay moving on then to the 2025 draft plan Planning Commission work plan thank you so the purpose of the the work plan is to give the Planning Commission some guidance and uh for their efforts throughout the year 2025 the Planning Commission is a little unique when you compare to other advisory bodies of the city in that state statute specifies Your Role particularly for land use applications and other things like U the compreh the city's comprehensive plan um so in that sense it does make this work plan um pretty standardized and very much looks like the work plan that we saw in 2024 so so not much has changed and I'll just walk through this work plan briefly so on the the left column there is the title for various action or activities that the Planning Commission does so the first one development applications which is Guided by our ordinance our zoning and subdivision regulations as um as most of you know the the role of the Planning Commission is to review land use applications so resoning subdivision site plans and so on and you provide a recommendation to the city council again that's uh spelled out very clearly in State Statute moving on to studies plans and programs that is Guided by the comp plan and uh one thing that we anticipate probably what early next year right Max is we anticipate having a a small area plan for the area that is roughly at in the 12th in Geneva area so think that a commercial area with uh MC's pubs MC Pub um we're looking at uh studying that area and possibly proposing some future land use options there um number two there is conduct some early prep work for the the next comp plan update um more more details to to come on that and I I don't know if any of the commissioners around for the previous comp plan update Dallas nope no no one else so Lee was the only other one who was here okay so we're actually uh going to be gearing up for the next comp plan update here soon enough and then other long range plans that the city might be bringing forward uh we don't quite know if we have any uh schedule for next year but it's always a possibility that something might pop up so moving on to ordinance updates the comp plan and uh the league of Minnesota cities those ref sources of information provide guidance here uh the the first kind of subtask is you know hold a public hearing for any changes to the zoning and subdivision regulations and then provide a recommendation to the city council for those updates and the last is commissioner education um on certain years it seems to be like every other year now that we've kind of gotten into a rhythm we'll uh we'll do educational events uh trainings um recent or earlier this year we had the development bus tour some of you were on that bus tour it was a just an opportunity to actually get in the community and see new developments um and and staff we were talking through some of the details about those developments um we might have some educational Opportunities Incorporated into our regular meetings I believe there might be something scheduled for early next year we'll have to confirm with our city clerk and then on occasion staff will prepare some informational memos on various topics uh that kind of hot hot topics that uh might be of interest to the to the commission and we try to get ahead of those U topics before we we start seeing a bunch of land use applications on those so like I said not much has changed really from the 2024 work plan and in terms of next steps we'd like to incorporate any feedback that you have uh into the work plan before it would be brought forward to the city council for approval so I know I brought this up before in the commissioner education this when I started uh there was was a class online class taught through the league of Minnesota cities that covered the legal responsibilities of planning commissions is that no longer available or over dropped participation in that I'm unsure if the class is available but um they've created a handbook for people in planning commissions uh that's free and fully available on the website and then they also have a handbook for City staff that looks at different Minnesota specific components of um the applications we see in Planning Commission and that can be worth a look as well for additional detail okay I just recall I had to pass their test at the end of it that's the main thing Bo did you have to pass any tests to get on the board here or the commission okay it's an interview Council interview so yeah and show up yeah I'll take a test though that sounds nice I'll take the test see pass fail right well yeah it was they gave you a percentage but it was a the class was basically legal responsibilities and and uh laws covering land use so it was very useful h is the name of the league of Minnesota cities Le Minnesota City okay it'll determine if we vote you off the island or not apparently not though on that case anything else from anyone on this no I think this looks good it's fine I'm hoping to get on one of these bus tours one of these years I know actually pretty neat is that what the like rest of the city council or just the other commissions the bus tour it was a combination of all of them okay city council members and all any Commissioners that wish to come okay fill the bus fill the bus nice yeah only tell me I had was just this last the various topics of interest and we were talking about all the superior medals staying ahead of that that's just something to learn more about I suppose it's not a bad idea I've seen no other comments I guess we can move on to staff leaon updates thank you chair just a few updates here very quickly so council member um our Council liaison already touched on this the Tanner Lake Redevelopment so the land use applications was approved by the city council on October 8th if you recall of the last Planning Commission meeting the request for Enclave helmo station that uh is expected to go to the City Council on November 26 they're working on some updates to their plans uh they they really took the feedback that they received from the Planning Commission at your last meeting um and they're working to address some of those issues uh expect a December 5th Planning Commission meeting we have two uh land use applications uh one is for a pylon sign and then another is for home occupation and last thing just have a good Thanksgiving thank you very much Commissioners updates anyone have any updates they wish to present no updates but do I can I ask a staff a question sure I had heard at one point that the city was something like 96 97% built out do we know what that number is seems pretty high but I'd need to take a look um certainly we've had more of the City built out with the willbrook neighborhood but even that is about halfway built out and that's a pretty sizable chunk of the city but um I imagine that's something that I'll run map analysis of once we get more into the comp plan uh process sounds good that's all I got okay any other questions when's all these opening that depends on all these de much more important question yeah yeah uh we're hearing spring 2025 but that's always subject to change and we have already had our counil aison update so I ask for a motion to adjourn so moved second all those in favor I I any opposed thank you very much good night thank you for