##VIDEO ID:0YFR5utetGc## okay um uh I guess first we'll do the let me see what I have here um let me bring this to order first let's do the Pledge of Allegiance all stand I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay hi everyone um okay uh can we have a um roll call Claire thanks here here here here here here good okay all right um uh the notice requirements of the open public meeting act law for this meeting have been satisfied a cop copy of the notice having been sent to the Asbury Park Press and the coaster and filed in the ocean in the office of the of the Township Clerk um there's an emergency exit through the courtroom doors and two exits at the right of the room no smoking uh no new cases will be started after 10:30 p.m. and no new testimony taken after 11: p.m. all meetings will be video and audio taped and shown on the township of Ocean's Community cable channel channel 22 on Verizon FiOS and channel 77 on cable vision all cell phones must be turned off or if you need to make a call please make your call outside the meeting room okay um we had a minor site plan subcommittee application and I think um I'm going to read this but I'm going to recuse myself from this okay um Hollywood golf club Block 40 l123 1234 82 83 8488 100 and 101 51 510 Ros elev ocean 07712 Zone R1 attorney um Miss crico applicants seek approval from the minor sub planning committee to demolition approximately 800 ft of area from the existing Clubhouse and construct new one story Edition totaling 3,686 ftet to the clubhouse um Mr def figle would you like to um talk through this and sure the minor site plan subcommittee reviewed this application and is unanimously recommending to the board to approve it so I would ask for a motion to accept and approve this minor sight plan application I'll second well I'll make the motion oh sorry moved by Mr paluta seconded by Mr Monty um roll call vote please Claire yes yes yes yes yes I'm going to recuse myself okay um there's a correspondence on uh 7 720 cor corus Avenue block 7 do I need to look at this or make a a motion about this or I think it's just for information just information that that we received this it's just for yeah okay we received this letter around um an application for flood Hazard uh area verification okay can I get um uh approval of minutes for August 26 2024 and September 23 2024 can I get a second I'll second thank you I made the motion that can be in all in favor for the minutes all in favor ibody posos okay so we have our continued case uh of 3200 Sunset Commons LLC block 137 laot 23 uh 3200 Sunset Avenue ocean 07712 zone C3 um just for this case um Mr palus uh did listen to the um last hearing and uh has certified that in writing that he is up to date on all the discussions so Mr plutus can uh vote and uh on this as well yeah Mr chairman I believe the only issue that we did not finish at the last meeting where there were concerns about the traffic along Logan correct right and I think that's the really the sole reason we're here tonight yes correct I think that was the only thing we were not comfortable I think we settled all other matters right correct yep yep excuse me watch yourself I I'm trying to break my other arm a little equilibrium problem there yeah no it's a whole story Jeff uh for the record Jennifer kmco from from evanel Grim and Aaron be on behalf of the applicant we did not present a planning testimony for the minor variances I'll defer to the board whether or not that's necessary the variances though however had nothing to do with the access at the board meeting uh we had proposed alternative access to Logan Road and one of the board members I think board member Duffy had suggested limiting it to write in write out only on Logan Road in an effort to avoid any issues from the objecting neighbors who lived across the street uh Ben had indicated in his mind can't hurt but he's not a traffic engineer so we hired a traffic engineer to examine a couple of things first to examine the existing roadways the traffic patterns on the existing roadways whether or not adding traffic onto Logan Road is appropriate or whether or not it would become a problem um and again and I don't remember I think Mark brought it up I mean it's a permitted use we're entitled to the access but because the neighbors were concerned we wanted to give the board that comfort um and also to look at uh accident reports to see what's going on there so Justin uh Taylor did prepare a traffic uh State traffic impact study it was submitted to the board I'd like to move that in as A7 and I will just I will just say at the outet that um Ben did review the report and took no exception to it in his review letter um uh he did put in his letter he made this suggestion with regard to restricting the Sunset Avenue uh driveway and we did have an opportunity to speak with our expert and we spoke with Ben and uh we're not opposed to a uh partial restriction but as you're going to hear a full restriction will one cause confusion for cars that travel and sunset looking to come to our site and two more importantly we'll push all traffic uh onto Logan which as you know is not not what the neighbors wanted so as we go through the testimony just so the board can keep in the back of their minds what we would agree to is a no left turnout onto Sunset Avenue during the uh peak hour which is from 4: to 7: which is the reason why we want this alternative exit in the first place so I would just use that as the framework to introduce Justin have him sworn and qualified and then go through uh what his findings are and just to clarify one thing I didn't say that the board couldn't R you from going out on the road what I think what I said was it's a permitted use we can't take offside traffic into consideration but that doesn't mean that you're automatically that you're allowed onto access onto there 100% I didn't I I I certainly didn't mean to represent it any other way what I was what I was suggesting was it we weren't responsible to show that the roads can accommodate it but because we're asking for this access on this lesser roadway which we believe we're entitled to we want to bring a traffic engineer just really to speak about restrict that Logan Road and more importantly to give you guys the comfort that Logan Road has the capacity and it will not cause a problem for the neighbors across the street okay and we agreed that that's where we were okay so St you swear that any testimony about to give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth self you got I do and just State your names for the record Justin Taylor t y l r and you are a licensed engineer state of New Jersey specializing in traffic yes thank you go ahead okay so Justin you you had the opportunity to tr traffic counts um and you prepared a report which we moved in as A7 so well I'm sure the board members read it could you just summarize your findings and your recommendations sure so after hearing the the concerns of the board the last hearing um I was commissioned to take a look at both the existing conditions along both Sunset Avenue and Logan Road as well as the potential impact of creating a driveway out to uh to Logan Road uh by way of background what we did was we went out we conducted traffic counts to figure out the Baseline volumes are going on out there today um we typically in the traffic engineering world look during the am and the PM peak hours because that tends to be the highest volume of traffic on these type of roadways so we looked from 7:00 to 9: in the morning and from 4:30 to 6:30 p.m. um and just interrupt that's generally also the peak hours for medical office building so they did coincide that is correct we also consulted with the applicant to find out the busiest day that they have on their site when all the doctors are there and it turns out Thursday afternoons or Thursdays are their busiest days so we went out and made sure that we were collecting data during the busiest time of that existing use um we then also analyzed the driveway of their site we wanted to know who was coming to and from the site and realistically where are they going where they're trying to get to whether they're back to 35 whether they're heading East on Sunset up and down Logan because we really want to have a good picture of what the impact and the re routing traffic would be from that Sunset driveway to that Logan Road driveway so we collected the data at those two locations we then routed it out to the Logan Road driver a portion of it now not all the traffic is going to reroute um initially when we were looking at it we hadn't contemplated turning restrictions at Sunset Avenue but rather what was more convenient what was easier for people to get out and do you really want to wait for a gap in the eastbound traffic that's stuck at the traffic light or do you want to come out make an an easier left on the Logan Road and utilize the traffic signal that's there to make the left to head back to Route 35 and Justin when you did your studies you found that during the peak hours there was a queue from the traffic light that went past our driveway yes on heading eastbound on Sunset it routinely would back up from the signal past the driveway of the the proposed develop so there was testimony to that effect and the difficulty but um eastbound eastbound on Sunset eastbound on Sunset that's correct so when that light was on then backed up and it backs up potentially you know past the driveway P into the uh the garden center um and so what that means is as you are making a can we just announce that the newest arrival uh yeah um Jack m is here our newest arrival right um Jack he's joined the meeting at 7 and Jack you were here the last meeting for this as well he just signed we just signed that okay so Jack signed his um confirmation that you have watched the video of the last meeting correct okay great and just Jack by way very brief summary we moved the traffic impact study in we've introduced the traffic engineer and he just explained that he counted the traffic both on both roadways the intersection as well as in and out of our driveway and he's just talking about his findings just to catch up perfect great so where I was essentially we wanted to take a look at the traffic that was currently entering eggs in the site and then who would reroute to this new driveway um as I mentioned the left turn out onto some on set is a major component of this because the cues coming on northbound Logan do not back up past the driveway so you have that while you have to wait potentially for people going north south you're not waiting for that Quee to clear to be able to get out so that was the major Movement we anticipated but you also had people that are traveling north on Logan Road turning left on a Sunset and turning left into the site currently today just from where they live or if they find it more convenient on 35 Northbound to come up Logan Road because we counted with cameras we able to track these vehicles to figure out where they were coming from where they're going to so then we rerouted them to the Logan Road driveway and in order to ensure that there is sufficient capacity in that drive we ran capacity analyses utilizing the existing volume on uh Logan Road and then this rerouted traffic and what we find is that new driveway is going to operate with levels of service b or better during both of those Peak Community hours there is capacity in Logan Road to accommodate this additional traffic now I would note that the volumes we're talking about are not really all that high we're talking about 18 cars maybe maybe 15 cars during the peak hour um but it's so it's not necessarily 18 cars at once it's 18 cars over the course of an hour over the whole hour that's correct you saying 18 cars went a long long road no no no in in out of our driveway oh in out of the driveway okay right so these are the volumes that we anticipate there's about in the morning there about 35 cars coming into the site okay we anticipated about eight of them would reroute to this new driveway okay right same thing so we anticipate eight in and 10 out in the morning peak hour and three in and eight out in the evening peak hour that would then be on the Logan Road that weren't some of them were already there but really wouldn't be making that left or the right out of Road and based on those volumes would that have any impact on either the Queue at the light or any impact on the traffic level on Logan Road meaning you said the driveway would continue to operate at B would it change the level of service at that intersection on Logan Road no that was the other piece that we analyzed was the operation of the signal at Sunset and Logan Road just to determine the type of impact it would have and none of the levels of service change none of the delays even change really because we're talking about a car every I don't know 10 minutes right um and of the accidents you analyzed as it related to this site uh the there were no accidents on Logan Road but there were three accidents involved left inss or left outs on our property so we had the conversation earlier I actually went back and dug through the uh the crash records that we obtained we got crash records from the police department from January of 2021 all the way through August of 2024 right the longest extent that we can look at to identify if there were any type of Crash history that would be concerning either along Logan Road or also the driveway there were two crashes associated with vehicles exiting the driveway one left and one right the other one we were talking about earlier actually had nothing to do even though it was westbound on Sunset it was actually somebody it was the queue coming back from 35 and somebody rended somebody else had nothing to do with the operation the so in your opinion if we were to provide this other driveway and require cars to use it for a left out during the peak afternoon hour in your opinion would that create a safer situation both for Sunset Avenue and for the site and not cause any detrimental impact to the Logan road traffic absolutely I mean I think it it provides that pressure relief valve so you don't need to have a trying to make a left out through the queue um and then Peak your way looking at westbound Sunset and and based on the analysis that we've done there's no impact no negative impact Logan Road okay okay any questions for Justin um yeah before I go to T to you sir um Ben did you have a comment did you want to make about anas uh yeah so um I I agree with the testimony uh I I reviewed the report and I had my my traffic engineer review the report and and we we generated uh our review comments um for this so the I'm fine with the condition of uh restricting left turns out of the site onto Sunset um during the afternoon Peak and what did you say that was four seven yep um I'm I'm fine with that um and then I I just want to get a little little more clarification on I know it's in the report but I think for the for the board's benefit um there was some concern I think by some board members that there would be traffic backed up on Logan Road uh that would I guess restrict people from coming out of the new driveway uh can you explain the the Q length there at the the light um that's going northbound on Logan and while he's looking for that Mr chair we would if the board would approve this we would Grant title 39 which as you know gives the police the ability to ticket people who are making left turns out during the hours that they're not supposed to okay so um it's a great question Ben thank you for I should have probably touched on this in the direct um we did analyze the cues we observed the cues we also used the traffic analysis software um to come up with what we determined the 95th percentile Q length now that's approximately 185 ft from the Stop Bar to where this new driver would be along Logan Road and the calculated 95th percentile cues with the addition of the traffic uh that we are proposing to relocate was 178 ft so just shy of where that driveway is so what that shows is the 95th percentile or happens 5% during that busiest peak hour is just to the edge of where the driveway is on average what it is about 65 ft so most of the day the average queue is way was much closer to the intersection so there would be no um no impediments to coming out of the driveway and how at the 95th percentile how far is the queue on Sunset Avenue and when does it potentially clear in from our driveway so Sunset Avenue to the driveway um is 140 ft so it's actually closer to the signal uh the 95th per tiqs we see are um 215 or 357 feet in the evening right so Way Beyond where that actual driveway is so it could take a few light cycles to to get those gaps even the average cues extend we have 158 ft where it's um to the three right so so it's not extraordinary situation it's almost always blocked during the peak hour that's correct so basically for both during those peak hours is what you're saying is 4 to s yes 4 to s that both of those lanes are pretty saturated the eastbound approach coming uh on Sunset a yes and the Logan Road one also going so Logan Road on average it's not right so Logan Road what we saw during the build condition the average is about 50 or 60 feet so 9 even during the peak time yep 95 percentile we're seeing uh maximum 178 so worst case scenario at a 5% of the time during that it'll be that way but on average it's not that's okay okay okay did you want to no that was the the main uh concern uh that I had was was making sure that was that was clear um yeah I didn't have any other issues with it okay so just from a a board standpoint would anybody like to ask some questions I have a question how are we notifying drivers that they can't make a left turn on Sunset we're going to have between four and seven we'll put signage up on the site and indicate it'll be enforced so a sign like a like a like a node like say no left turn and it say with the time time on there yep just like you see um I think there's a similar sign going into the golf course I think there's limit there's a few other sites where there's some limitations like that okay yeah okay anybody else have uh would you consider three to seven and the reason why I asked that is because now that's when all the bus traffic and I heard during the testimony you know last time that's where it seems to be a lot the backup around that 3:00 time you know the schools get out ocean H Schools get out at 2:45 and they start hitting the wamas area around 3:00 and then it's a continuous loop till about four o'clock or so what did you find by way of um the cues and the issues at three versus four so what we saw is if the peak time of the uh eastbound Sunset was 5 to six as we went to either side it dropped by about 10 to 15% when you got down to about that 3:00 hour you were about uh 30% lower than what the peak that we saw at 5:00 was so in my opinion it wasn't wholeheartedly necessary to limit it at that point because we because the eastbound traffic has dropped uh significantly 30% I didn't think it was absolutely necessary to limit at that point but the westbound coming off of sunset you know Crossing Logan and going from Logan there's been a I mean it's back up to you know fave the Rouge Park that way too so I live around the that's why I'm you know experienced it you know trying to get across 35 at that time and you know you always see that exactly what's happening someone's trying to make that right turnout right but we're not so that and I understand what Mr plutus is saying we're not affecting the cars heading off on Logan Road to make the right turn onto Sunset because we're coming from the other way but it is if you're I mean well if you're making a left out of the site if you're making I'm sorry I said I said right you're right a left out of it and then a left on a Sunset and then you're trying to make a right on to Sunset from Logan Road it does cause that right in that intersection there and it's usually around like said it does it does taper off and it's so again we counted the cues during that time my expert is saying it's not necessary we would like to we we we understood the boarded concerns we hired the traffic engineer for the purpose of having an expert offer that testimony we're offering the 4 to7 based on the time frame when it is the wor based on his testimony it's not necessary from an expert standpoint was the test all a I thought I heard you say between 4:30 and 7:30 earlier so what what we did was we specifically counted the Turning movements from 4:30 to 6:30 and 7 to 9: but what we did was take a look at a 24-hour span of when the the traffic spiked and then dropped to sure that we were also encompassing those highest hours so when we looked at the movements on Sunset that's when that Spike was that 5 PM and then dropping about 15 20% every hour and an hour on the outside of so you counted cars in and out of our site from 4 to from but you looked at the roadway movements 24 hours that's correct um how many days did that span the um the Turney movement counts were done on one Thursday in September um um the 24-hour period we actually used metadata uh produced by smat and it was actually monthly over the entire year so it included summer traffic that well to dive a little further in counting of September I know we were lower than what you would see in the summer so we wanted to be able to Encompass that so we used the monthly variations to increase the traffic it was actually went up by about 36% from what we counted to to the peak summer so all that analysis all those levels of service that I quoted to you were all based on that inflated summertime counts when we looked at the 24-hour daily uh variation that took in uh basically the entire year and looked at the the 24 peak hour variation and just to clarify because I've heard this testimony before and I know how that works I just want to make sure that we're explaining it in in Lay terms you essentially looked at the traffic throughout the year and you analyzed how much more traffic was on these roadways In The Heat Of Summer and heat upon non-intended at the height of Summer versus September and you found a 36% increase in traffic on those roads during those peak hours that is correct what so just let me and so the numbers that you used are not based on the numbers you actually found out on the roads in September it's based on the numbers you found out on the Run September plus 36% yes that's correct so you basically looked at it worst case scenario peak of Summer that's correct okay um just just to take Mike's uh comment here does anybody else want to talk about Mike's comment about moving it to 3:00 does anybody I mean to me I mean just my opinion here based on what these experts saying it doesn't sound warranted to move it to from four to three just my but if anybody else has a a comment about it no okay I if if I I can just add that I don't have an issue with with what the applicant is offering four to seven I I think that does based on the data does encompass the the peak that that they're talking about great okay um does anybody else have any questions or for this person for this I'm curious to see that there's a sign exting bimbler onto wipo to see what that time frame is it's probably 3/4 of a month M from the subject location and I'm thinking that is 4:30 to 7:30 but I could be wrong maybe we could check and say I certainly can't check tonight and and I don't I my intention is to wrap up tonight and again when that sign went in I don't know what factors they relied on for that it may have been based on when they're busiest as opposed to when the roadways are busy I don't know if there was a traffic study or not so I'd respectfully just suggest that we rely on the expert yeah I also think we want to take into account that the um that um we're asking this group to work with us on this right and uh you know we are taking account that it's a you know a medical office building that has different restrictions than any than another road possibly right and also I'm going a little bit by Ben Ben's analysis here as well gu that's what day on September that was your traffic you did the traffic study the day uh uh it was uh September 19th which was a Thursday okay so does anybody else have any questions for this um individual no no um anybody from the public like to uh make a comment or uh um and talk and ask a question to about this would you like to step up and um and be heard I think you'd have I think you have to come up here and Mr chair is it just questions of this witness comments would be at the end yes this is just questions right okay you might as well just open it up and and yeah I think it's easier because I think they're going to say the same thing okay great questions and comments I'm not so I live ma'am I'm just GNA have to get your name again for the record Nancy we w h e a r y right all right you were sworn at the last hearing you're still on the road okay I'm trying to understand so about the Logan Road driveway what you're saying because right now at the hours of 4 to 7 the traffic backs up back toward uh 35 you know to cut through so I I just I just don't understand the numbers that you that it's going to take us forever to get out of our driveway I guess is what I'm saying and a lot of times we do wait through a couple lights in our driveway to get onto Logan Road to go either you know up Sunset down wherever we're going and you have the traffic coming in from 35 up by the qu dealership so that always backs up that's so can you can he answer that I would like to I'm not quite understanding what you're saying say that there is actually a backup of 170 ft right so and it's probably more than that we counted it okay because the light the traffic light appears to be pretty close to where you want to put that driveway so Mrs we I don't know if you're the testimony the driveway was at just an approximately 185 ft from the light yes that's correct so our driveway is approximately 185 ft from the light and at the worst case it was projected out at70 ft okay so it the backup does not go to our driveway it stops 15 feet short of our driveway I'm doing the math wrong maybe 10 so when they come out of onto they can only make the right or only make the left they can go either right or left coming out of the driveway so you can turn north onto Logan Road or south on the Logan Road okay and the analysis that we did shows that given the level of traffic that we have on Logan Road currently and the rerouted volumes that we're operating with levels of service well speak in English for me when you say the rerouted Vols how many cars are you talking about would be making the left out of our site towards the light towards Mrs we's property I think that's your question right how many cars are we adding coming that way right because um we Pro get out now we can't get out any of those homes we project 9 in the morning and 8 in the evening over our period over a period of one hour right right so that's a car every six minutes has to work their way into the flow of existing traffic on Logan Road going out to Sunset and wherever that's correct yep and that's the analysis that we performed showing the levels of service okay well I I'm against it that's all I can say okay thank you no I'm the husband I'm Gary thank you and Sir you're still under Ro from last meeting also I mean again we experienced the traffic traff there's a lot of traffic down there I don't care what the study says that is a low that is a very narrow road you have people that Park on either side of those things because people have more than two cars and there are cars on that thing and you better not drive fast down that road or you're going to hit somebody when somebody's coming this way and you're coming this way and your's par cards you better stop and you have to be very careful or you're going to hit everybody and there's traffic there and when we get traffic from the from Logan Road we get it off the Highway there's also the uh we get it from the uh when there's ever a concert in Asbury Park you get it from Logan there's a lot of road I mean I don't this room is bigger than the road that we have on you take that thing the two uh the desk that's probably the size of the road put now a couple cars on each front of these houses and each one of these houses I guarantee you has two or three cars on there and you cannot drive down that car drive down that thing at regular speed you have to slow down and there are times that I have to physically stop and let somebody go right by me because you're going to go this close and that's just with regular traffic and now you're going to and the fact you can put up a sign all you want we have signs there now we had a sign there now that said you couldn't park at a certain spot of thing and people do it and we've gone out and told people don't park there because number one you'll get a ticket and number two you're going to get hit my car as I said the last time got hit I had a park on the street one night so Mr W let me ask you a question what what what what is your suggestion is your suggestion that no cars go out on the Logan and everything go out on don't do it at all just come down 35 so everything should go down Sunset onto Sunset yes go down 35 then if they want to go to the office they can go down 35 make the turn and go in there's already a path to go in there I mean this is a neighborhood this is a neighborhood block you don't need it I mean I'm not even going to go under the thing that yeah you need uh they have the variance they can add 50 more CS that's right they can do whatever they want they can put 100 cars in there if they want to put it in there just don't do it down my driveway do go down 35 make them turn at the light at the sonoko station they go in they can go right into that exit they can go right into that entrance and they go out that way that way and that's it I mean you don't need this thing it's a lot of traffic and i' I've lived there for 20 years and there's always an accident there there's always accident there's always problems there and until you put that light on there there was an accident there every other every other minute cuz people would just go through the um okay I mean I'm not just trying to be it's just it's frustrating yeah I think I I appreciate what you're saying I think first of all there was a couple of things that came to light the number of accidents that did occur in in a two and a half year period right which was which years years was only sunet the other is that I believe that I you know they're trying to make their building more efficient for also all the people that visit their building right right if all people come in and out right so and they have I believe some legitimately stake to be able to do that I'm not saying they don't have a right to do what they was with their business I think it's I think it's unfortunate that the road that Logan Road was built as narrow as it was right I don't know if that's in my purview to hinder the applicant from what they're trying to do so I can't solve that I can't solve the problem on the fact that the road is very narrow well I like them to be maybe good neighbors I mean again they're part of that neighborhood we try to be good neighbors and I mean it's not I had an issue unrelated to this but they were cutting down the trees one night and they cut out my power on my uh they hit my line okay and then of course I tried to tell that then of course they wanted to deny it I finally they finally fixed it so again I'm trying to be a good neighbor with them they're trying to be good neighbors with us and the thing is too before they even put the sign up there that you couldn't Park in their parking lot people used to park in there all the time because there was no parking on the street if you came down Logan Road if you were having the house party you would tell your guests park in that parking lot I I I understand what you're saying so just just to just to appreciate right our position I understand look is that is that you know if it if it meets if it meets the use case of the what's allowable right and they and we also find that people are actually trying to make some kind of um consideration for what we're asking for right then we want to take advantage of that as opposed to all of a sudden it's um we're not we're not we don't have that opportunity right so uh um I'm not Mr chair May yeah sure you can talk to so the other problem is the only variances that we need with regard to the driveway are one that we have two instead of one and two the location of the curb cut and we can solve those variances but it would be in a way that I think would upset the wearies even more would be if we close Sunset Avenue altogether because again which I'm not suggesting we're going to do but the town has an ordinance that they want the drivers on the Lesser roadways and there's no question that Logan Road is a lesser roadway as it relates to traffic so to avoid those variances we would put the Lo only a Logan Road driveway and put it on the center of the lot which which would bring it closer to the wearies so the only variances we need with regard to this are really helping what the concern is and and well I I understand and I'm and I'm empathetic to what the wearies are going through at the same time we're a citiz well not a residential citizen a corporate citizen of Ocean Township and we're looking to uh Avail ourselves of of all of the same rights and yeah I appreciate you saying all that and clarify the record there Jennifer got confused because there are two standards in the ordinance for a residential Zone the driveway has to be on the street of lesser classification and the commercial Zone has to be on the street of higher classification so actually the sunset would be the one that's the correct one however one thing that nobody has brought up and I'm I'm a very lazy driver I always look for the path of lease resistance and what's going to get me to work can go the quickest if I'm coming out of that site as it exists now during the rush hour and I can't make a left-hand turn I'm going to make a right-and turn on the sunset go down to Turner take Turner down to applebe applebe to Logan and come back up Logan and accomplish basically the same thing that's going to be accomplished by this proposed driveway I'm just going to there going to be traffic coming on to Logan I think some of the traffic on Logan right now is that's what's happening and it's also putting more traffic onto Turner and Applebee because of that so you it's a very it's a very simple move to to turn out of that driveway on Sunset go east on Sunset to Turner make a right on to Turner go down to Applebee a right on Apple B and then and then a right up Logan so Jimmy you're suggesting that what we're proposing is a good thing yeah yeah but you're propos that's what it was hard to tell much different than what exists now except you don't have the Turner right you're proposing that it uncomplicates a lot of things and right okay well thanks for that comment even though I didn't call on yet but thanks um Ben after listening to this you have anything you want to say um I I agree with what Jim said and kind of uh to piggyback on that one of the the things that was brought up last time was restricting uh turns out of the driveway on Logan road to right out only and it would be the exact same thing in Reverse yeah cars would turn on to Logan then left onto applebe and then downturn would nothing be solved right right right I looked at that when we were before this right um okay uh anybody else from the um um from the audience like to make a comment or ask a question n z a I spoke last time as well yes and you're still on yes just respell your last zle zebra Au n e r e thank you um so I just you know wanted to revisit the comment I made last time is which if we look at that dental office that's right on the other side of the highway that has a very short distance as well to go out to make the left on to 35 North which is the way a lot of people are traveling there is a sign that clearly says don't block the intersection and that seems to solve their issue without having to have an extra entrance yes there's two entrances but it's a southbound only so anybody who's trying to make a left to go up 35 North there's a sign that clearly says don't block the driveway and that's sufficient to serve their needs for serving their population um the other comment is you're talking about the you're talking about the um dentist on on the other side yeah there's a sign that says don't block the on the other side of sunset yes exactly and it's a shorter distance from that exit to the light then from Sunset to the light so it serves the purpose on that office building I don't understand why I can't serve the purpose on the sunset building um the second point is that what's going to stop people from cutting through traffic's backed up trying to go into Asbury they're all going to just keep cutting through the parking lot so what's going to help stop then overflow traffic that's going to cut use that as a cut through to get through past the lights which right I'm just saying so it's not necessarily eight cars it could be substantially more that are using that to cut through so I just want to cars was to make a left turn towards the other way I just want to remind the board again this is a permitted use yes correct you can't all this out excuse me offsite traffic isn't really relevant to the application you're limited you're very much limited to the site plan issues and whether it makes sense from a site plan perspective to allow cars to exit out on the Logan it isn't a question of the number of vehicles that are going up and down Logan and going down Sunset yeah no I I I I understand I think we understand I think I think but understood from his comment that actually Sunset is the appropriate exit then based on the comment of the commercial zoning so I mean yes understood but then that's that would indicate that's the proper driveway and there's ways to solve for that exit issue the two driveways you didn't did you did so I mean so there's other ways to solve that like signage and making sure that people are respectful to leave access and Mrs zir I think that the testimony also was though it's not waiting for the space necessarily to only to get through the queue that's waiting to go eastbound it was also waiting for that and then being able to hop over and make the left so so not blocking the driveway doesn't help well but that's the same purpose is Aspen Aspen is trying to make the left the light there is significantly longer because it's a highway so the Gap in between when the cars are coming and it's also a it's also a dedicated left turn on the other way so it's a much different Sunset though that's a dedicated left turn lane and yes there's no turning light but there is a lot more traffic coming from the industrial areas across I I mean I understand but I mean you live there my office is there I think we can both agree that that driveway is almost always blocked so I'm going to correct what I just said I mean based upon the fact that it is a variance you do have to find the benefits of allowing the logal the Logan exit outweigh the detriment excuse me outweigh the detriment of allowing the exit onto Logan mhm so that is something you do have to uh put into perspective right which is why we conceded and expert to give you all the testimony and you gentleman think it does the benefits outweigh the negatives is that is that a fair yeah I think it's a better solution to what currently exist now yeah and I know that you said the same thing so and obviously for the people who run the building and obviously for the people who run the bill obious their their opinion doesn't matter no I'm tell here that it we have to show that it's a benefit to the traffic overall mhm yeah um anybody have any okay so is anybody else in the in the in the audience like to make a comment or come up and make a statement or have a question no okay before so I'm going to end that part of our discussion I'm going to bring it back up to you do anybody else have any questions or any discussion you want to have up here about this no okay Mr chair I do have a planner but it's only really to discuss those two variances that I mean the landscaped area is not really changing uh we're adding a lot of landscaping it's the curb cut location and the number of curb cuts the parking isn't changing and the parking space with isn't changing yeah I don't I personally don't think it's necessary mean you have Jim testifying as a planner that he feels I want that option I think yeah I'm not sure where everybody feels right now so I think I think we could kind of uh can I get motion from somebody either on the affirmative or the negative right now about this uh app I don't know you're asking I'm sorry I want somebody to make a motion here to either approve or deny the to either approve or deny I'll make a motion to approve you make a motion to approve can I get a second a second you got a second okay so um well we have on the table right now is a motion to approve the applicant there's a positive resolution correct did I did close the conversation yes yes yes I seconded yes yes yes I think you forgot forgot me yeah I I seconded and and yeah yes yes thank you okay thank you and thank everybody for your comments there I think you asked me for this I printed it for you okay we have a we have a new um we have a new case um Moren Cliff trustee block uh F let me know if 5.02 Lot 27 465 West Park Avenue Ur 07 75 Zone R4 um the applicant seeks a minor subdivision to subdivide the existing single family residential lot in two uh two single family residential lots I know I don't look like Rick uh not at all actually I don't know what Rick looks like so I have no idea what Rick looks like I don't think I might I might well not the Mr Miss somont has stepped down and thank you for the record Jennifer crico from here on behalf of the applicant I'm filling in for Rick Brodsky since I was here this application hopefully will be uh a bit simpler we have a lot that is extraordinarily oversized almost four times the size that the Zone requires we're not looking to even subdivide it into three lots which we would be able to by density we're just looking to subdivide it into two lots by drawing a line down the center because of the size and shape of the lot in that it's narrower but very very deep uh we require variances as it relates to lot width um and we Mark in the following exhibits exhibit A1 will be the application itself exhibit A2 is the minor subdivision plan and those are the only exhibits I have from the applicant and then have exhibit B1 is in board one will be the board planners report exhibit B2 will be the board Engineers original report exhibit B3 will be the board Engineers Revis report exhibit B4 will be the crime prevention report exhibit B5 will be the traffic safety Bureau report exhibit B6 will be the code enforcement report exhibit B7 will be the fire marshal report and exhibit B8 will be the Department of Public Works report okay just a quick uh note um uh Miss Sante has uh decided to has recused herself from this uh this um case because our uh engineer looks strangely like she does uh and thank you and as I indicated and also I just wanted to note that uh we're not proposing any construction at this time at all it's just purely to subdivide it uh so I'm going to turn it over to Chad have him sworn and just walk through the numbers as it relates to the bulk standards okay sir do you swear any testimony you're going to give tonight will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth help you got yes I do thank you very much and you are licensed Lance of state of New Jersey I am and a licensed professional engineer and a liced professional engineer I don't take that away from apologize never okay so just if you could go through the dimensions of the lot as it exists what the Zone requires and what the lot configurations will be as proposed the lot is it presently exists has a frontage of 160 ft and a depth of 260 to 300 ft has a total area of 40 47,000 116 Square ft um property is in the R4 Zone which requires 10,000 ft of lot area 90 ft of width and 100 ft of depth um the lots have been proposed to be divided almost equally each lot's about 23,500 Square ft uh but each lot does require a lot width variance um the lot to the the lot to the east has a width of 81.5 ft the lot to the West has a width of 80.6 Ft so even though the the lot width doesn't meet the requirement the lot area is more than twice what the ordinance requires yes and not withstanding the lot width you're showing a building footprint that fully complies so if the board grants this when these lots are developed it can be done without any variance relief that's right okay and then um I think it was in Jim's letter there was a suggestion that the non-conforming driveway uh on the property on the East be removed uh in that there's some gravel that kind of goes up to the property line and one of the things that I asked Jim before the meeting and I'll ask the board is we're happy to remove it we agree that any new home will have to have a conforming drivew come back to this board we would just ask that it be a condition of building permit as opposed to subdivision so we don't get held up in bonding and going to the county and all kinds of other things I did run it by uh both Colleen and uh Jim before the meeting so short of that um I'm sorry so so you want to be a condition of what building permit for construction of Home gotcha gotcha that variant not be granted basically totally understand then the driveway has to be right to and I have one other minor comment which I realized today that I miss when I was reviewing the application the ordinance requires that the front setback be drawn be be measured from the right of way that is recommended in the master plan for the type of road I don't know who the guy is he he definitely I gotta have a talk with him so what is that now but but the what can you repeat it yeah the front setback has to be measured from the right of way as recommended in the master plan for the street in this case the recommended uh right of way width for West Park Avenue is 66 feet in the master plan okay so we'll move it back that would the existing right of way is 50 ft so if you take half of the 16t difference the recommended right of way on the North North Side would be 8 ft in from the front property line so the front setback would have to be the 30 foot required setback plus the 8 foot setback okay which still would fully conform it just means that 30 foot front setback line should be 38 and I have a question Jim and again this is wait wait hold your question just so I fully understand this for the resolution yeah what is thatly that they're proposing how much they're proposing 30 from the front property line and 66 feet is and it should be 38t okay and we're going to propose 38 can I just change let me yeah just one thing is that because this is a county road yeah the county has 15 yeah they yeah the county has a right of way is 50 ft so the municip how does the municipality have a right of way with on a county road that they don't have and I'm just I don't necessarily object to the it's been that way in the master plan since 80 and when we updated the master plan I didn't that okay but I mean you'd agree that the because it's a County Road they're never going to widen it wider than I I don't think it's ever going to be widen any wider than it is right now no no no but at at worst it's going to be where we're propos so we are proposing to dedicate 15 fet by way of easement to the county for Road widening the town I don't think would have the right to widen those additional 8 ft no no but the master plan it's it's the way the ordinance is written it's a technical variance so so but you're saying you're going to give the 38 did I hear you say that I'm already giving you 45 but if you only want 38 so they're giving more than was required I I'm proposing it as are you giving 30 ft from the eement line from the easement oh okay you're fine so there no Varian assume that's what Crossing out everything I just Tred to write down that's right you're fine then okay you're given 45 so you're fine okay so right now the only issue is why say the only what is is is lot which that's it instead of it being 90 it's 88 and 80 or something like that 0 and 81 and 80 so so because the driveway step back is going to be dealt with construction and the lot Frontage actually conforms because the frontage can be 65% of the lot width so the frontage conforms okay and the other and the other statement is that the um the lot itself is uh exceeds the average the well no not the average it actually each of the lots are more than double the size of the ordinance requires okay okay is there any other thing to talk about not in my opinion all right do you guys have anything you want to discuss on this what's the what's the um what what does it look like uh for their neighbors is it uh I do have a planner here the most of the Lots in the neighborhood are smaller than these proposed lots and a number of them have widths that are very similar to what's proposed directly across the street just about all the LDS all the lots are much smaller and have widths that are similar to what's being proposed and on the same side they're not quite as deep and again the widths vary but they're pretty close to what's being proposed here okay do do you have any other comments you guys want to make no engineering wise there I I don't have any issues with it okay anybody have any things that they want to ask here I just have the clarification the driveway removal includes soil decompaction right I'm not sure I know what that means but yes I mean it's a driveway so it's essentially impervious cuz the soil has been compacted it's my understanding that from the T that the that the Stone Drive was just gravel it's not even there nothing this used to be a two family home M nothing's been on this property in decades as I understand it so to the extent that it was compacted it may have un decompacted by itself but yes it will most definitely include decompaction and I learned something new today so so for the record Miss crico actually said something humorous at both sides actually left that the history being made where where is that driveway there's one hugging the east side of the property line each side of the property it says Stone Drive Mr Rus asphalt drive it says maybe no no no it say Stone Drive running up the right side asphalt Drive is on the neighbor's side St right there that's a Stone Drive got it that is a stone joint right there okay yep yep thank you okay does anybody um do anybody have any any questions or anything they' like to ask on the board no no anybody from the community have anything they like to say or make a comment about or ask a question no I do have a planner here I'm sure he'd like to comment but I'm assuming the board doesn't need to hear based on Jim's testimony I think we're we're so that so I think we're going to close the uh um the big comment session we have from the public kind to close that um and uh anybody want to make a motion on this application I'll make a motion for approval Al second the variances variance variance noted there's actually two variances two lots right right okay Varian ringer variance yeah same VAR for both I'll second great he made the motion he second it's okay yes yes yes yes I think you missed uh yes yes oh I forgot the Yankees game is on isn't it no that's not no that's not we're not we're not going to rush um okay so I I guess we're all done here thank you um can I get a motion to um I'm all done toj can I get a motion to adjourn I'll second okay great have a nice night everybody thank you all right