All right. Uh, I'm going to call this meeting of the Township of Ocean Planning Board to order. Can we have a roll call, please? Council Chairman here. Vice Chairman, here
Mr. Mr. Here, here. All right. Salute to the flag to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. The notice requirements of the open public meeting law for this meeting have been satisfied. a copy of the notice having been sent to the Asbury Park Press and the coaster and filed in the office of the township
clerk. There is an emergency exit through the courtroom doors and two exits at the rear of the room. There will be no smoking or vaping. No new cases will be started after 10 p.m. and no new testimony taken after 10:30 p.m. In addition, the applicant will be limited to 45 minutes of testimony. All
meetings will be video and audio taped and shown on the Township of Oceanceans Community Cable Channel, channel 22 on Verizon FiOS and channel 77 on cable vision. All cell phones must be turned off or if you need to make a call, please make your call outside the meeting
room. We don't have any resolution memorializations this evening and we have no new cases. However, we do have a resolution of the township council authorizing the planning board to undertake a study of an area in need of uh redevelopment for certain property
known as Township of Ocean. Am I reading this correctly? Nope, never mind. Block 34, lot 11 on the township's tax map and commonly known as 1610 Highway 35 Ocean Township. as to whether all or a portion of the
area here and after described meets the criteria for an area needed redevelopment pursuant to NJSA4A12A-5 and should be designated as such. And for the record, this is I believe condemnation redevelopment. Is that correct? All right. Uh and you want
to introduce yourself to the board? I'm not sure if this is on or how it goes off, but um my name is Phil Abramson. Um, I'm the proprietor of a consulting firm, Topology. Um, we're based in North, New Jersey, and I'm your planner for this evening. All right. So, um,
Mark, we're going to have him present to us the the findings of the report. After the findings of the report are presented, the board will ask questions, then the public will have a chance to ask questions as well. Is that the uh understanding? Yeah, that's the understanding. And I just I know this is
not something that the board does every day. This is not your normal type of application where the board looks for positive and negative criteria and you can more or less decide if you like something or don't like something. Uh this is strictly a here you're serving
as a judge like literally as a judge and you have to find based upon the report presented whether or not the criteria has been met to meet the definition of what is an area need of redevelopment. So that's what you're going to be deciding. You're not to make a decision based upon I hate redevelopment. I don't
like the project. I don't think this property should be redeveloped. That's not your role. You can't You could hate redevelopment to the ends of the earth. You cannot vote no based upon that. You only can vote no based upon the fact that you don't think it meets the criteria that's going to be testified to. Um if you find that it does, then
you're obligated to vote yes. And you can reject aspects of the report. You don't have to accept the report as it is. If you find that you disagree with sections of the report, you can instruct the planner, look, I don't like this. Uh so you're going to have to change this portion of the report because at the end
of the day, this is your report. This is not something that's being uh spoonfed to you and you just have to accept it. It is your report at the end of the day. So you need to feel comfortable with it. But again, this isn't a yes or no issue. This is a have they has the planner who is your professional uh established the
proper criteria to meet the definition of an area need redevelopment. Any questions from the board for our uh board attorney? All right, let's get started. I'm just gonna um that's up to the board and the public whe
as nobody takes a nap, we're good. You could take a nap. Um, again, my name is Phil Abramson. It's nice to be here. Mr. Lex, do you want me to sworn? Sure. Do you swear testimony you're about to give the truth about yourself, guys? I do. Thank you very much. And just tell us who you are again. Yes. And for the
record, it's uh Philip Abramson, AB Ram S. My firm is Topology NJ LLC. We're based um in North New Jersey at 60-64 Union Street. Thank you. Okay. And you did prepare this report, correct? I did. Um I oversaw the preparation of the
report um with two of my employees um having done a lot of the work. Yours. Okay, great. Um and as Mr. Lexine said, uh he he gave a great introduction and um so we're going to I'm going to also speak a little bit about process here. Um a few housekeeping items before I get
started. Um I'm joined this evening by Stephanie Spec um from from my office and uh I just want to acknowledge Gold Aspire who prepared a bulk of of this report. She couldn't be here this evening. um she had a family emergency, had to fly out of state over the weekend, so you have me um this evening.
So um but I just wanted to recognize her and she put a lot of work into this. Um was very proud of the work that she did here and so am I. Um and again, the purpose of this report is really to summarize um uh the purpose of my presentation is to summarize a report that's been on file now um in town hall
township uh burrow, I'm sorry, municipal building. Um so th this presentation is comprehensive but not doesn't necessarily replace that report. Um and that report is part of the record and should be part of the record. Okay. Um so I'm going to talk a
little bit uh I'm going to basically go down this agenda um introduction. I'm going to talk about the redevelopment process. Could you guys let me know like how often? Mr. Lexine said you don't do this every day. Do you do this once a month? Do you do this once a year? Um how often? Uh just so I can kind of understand the level of familiarity. I
think that since I've been on the board, we've done it once before for an area in need of rehabilitation. Okay. Um different criteria. And you've been on the board for a long time. I'm I'm the longest serving member of the board now. So yeah, not that often. So there's there's some people that have never done
this. I'd say basically everyone other than Okay, great. Um helpful to know that. So, I'm going to uh give a background education on kind of what this is and what we're doing and why we do this and why this exists. Um, Mr. Chairman, I have a fast forward button.
So, if you want me to skip the track, just you let me know. I I will do that. Don't worry. You got it. Fair enough. Um, so we're going to go through this and uh and again, I'm not going to necessarily read off everything on every slide. Um, this is supposed to
be a summary overview. Um, so I will go through these things relatively briefly. So here we are to talk about um the Orchard Plaza Shopping Center. Um, it really is one of the largest uh parcels on 35. Um, it contains currently a uh
and that's and that's all this redevelopment area is is is one property. Um, sometimes a redevelopment area can be an entire block. Um, and sometimes it could be one property. In this case, it's one property. Um, so this is really first foundational step
in the redevelopment process. Um, as Mr. Lexian said, it's important that we get this right. Um, it's important that you understand everything that you're asked um to opine on this evening. Um, because getting this right um really protects and insulates the municipality from
future challenges because this is foundational that if there's kind of cracks in the foundation, then whatever is built on top of it could be vulnerable. Um, so we take this part um very seriously. Um, also particularly because this is a condemnation redevelopment
area. Um, there are two different types of redevelopment areas in the state of New Jersey, non-demnation and condemnation. Prior to 2012ish, there was just one type of redevelopment area. Um, they were all condemnation. Um, so basically this and we're going to talk a little bit about what redevelopment
allows to happen um once this property is designated, but it's important that at the beginning of this process and what the New Jersey state law requires is that you specify whether it's condemnation or not in the very beginning so property owners have advanced notice of exactly what to
expect and exactly what kind of rights are at play. Um the the um resolution directing us to undertake the study was adopted by the council January 9. Um we you have a report in front of you dated March 7th. Um again all these things are
part of the record. Um you will ultimately give a report back that's the term in the statute report back to the council um with regard to your recommendation. Um the council can then accept reject or modify your recommendations um based on this report
tonight. that I'm about to give you. Um, so what does an area in need of redevelopment do? In a way, um, a lot of the things that we're used to under the municipal land use law, which is what you typically, uh, play with, uh, as a statutory framework, um, a lot of the
things in there that can't be done are put on pause. We can take pieces of property and create zoning districts for them. um we can do a unique taxation scheme um and not do the regular assessed value times municipal rate equals your tax that you can create a
taxation scheme that's part of the percentage of the revenue. It's called a pilot. Um you can um condemn property. So, a lot of these things that we're not usually um able to do with municipal land use law, the uh the state since the 1940s created this
legal structure um to basically allow municipalities and enable municipalities to fix problematic properties. Understanding that this can be a very difficult task. um that sometimes um a property can have title issues, sometimes a property could have
environmental issues and they're really difficult for someone to solve um or for a municipality to solve. And so rather than wait under this municipal land use framework, the MLUL framework, where you kind of just sit back and say, "All right, who wants to make an application?
When would you like to change this piece of property?" It allows the municipality to come in and say, "No, we're going to change this property now." Like we've had enough. um and this is detrimental to the health, safety, and welfare of our community. So, that's the step that's being taken um today. And this
only gets to happen if properties are uh meet the criteria that we're going to talk about tonight. That is the entry point to pushing pause on some of those policies that typically encompany the municipal land use law. Um so, what did we do? And and I'm
going to talk to you a little bit more about evidence. Um but my obligation to you and to this process um is to create substantial evidence um regarding the claims and conclusions that we'll make this evening. Um what what do we do when we do that? Uh we did two site visits um
used drone uh you know drones to take pictures from above. Um and then we did a site on foot visit um in February. We looked um as Miss Mayor can tell you we looked through a lot of municipal records um on this from which there's a
lot of them. Um environmental maps, historic imagery, um the zoning ordinance, and some market data. Um that's we really try not to leave any um any stone unturned. Um so this is our study area.
It's block 34. Is there any questions on that part? Do we we understand what we're doing? Questions from the board? We're good. Okay, cool. Um, so address 1610 Highway 35, block 34, lot 11. This is uh almost 11 acres. Um, and it's a commercial strip center,
which uniquely kind of has parking in the front and the back of the property, which most strip malls do not. Um, built in around 1980. Um, all vehicular access comes along, uh, Route 35, and it is one of several examples like this.
along the Route 35 corridor. We're in the C2 uh commercial highway zone. Um and so this property was originally uh just over 14 acres. Um it received the first we got you guys have great records and like this is one of the first town halls I've
ever seen where like everything wasn't lost to a flood at some point. Um uh 1979 was the original site plan approval and it contained uh this additional out parcel here um next to Willow
Drive in 1980. That piece was subdivided off um and the site was then later developed with the Autozone. Um over the decades we found in your records, you know, fit outs for restaurants, fit outs for for um different types of retail, um but no
major building expansions, no major changes to this building since it was since it was constructed. And and that'll be relevant um in a moment. I'll show you why. So this is just sort of showing that before in 1979 um the property was basically woods and
then in 1985 uh it's basically in the same configuration as you would be able to find it today. Um it's two buildings uh about 70 just almost almost 72,000 ft. There's 17 different suites, retail stores. Um 332
parking spaces in the front and the back. Um there's a wetland boundary back here. Um, one ingress drive U and one eress drive. Um, so we're going to go now into the the real heart of the presentation
now, which is that criteria. What what does this property need to exhibit under the law to allow these other rights on the municipality um to be conferred? So um I've spoken about the preliminary investigation. this is the
tool that we use um and what the law requires to sort of memorialize all these findings. Um the study develops um or takes a look at eight different criteria that the state has come up with um and to determine whether it's in need
of redevelopment. And again, my obligation to you is substantial evidence on the record. Um we try to leave no stone unturned. We never want to um give anybody a reason to say, "Oh, you didn't look at this. you didn't go inside, you didn't see how great this place was. Um,
I think that we've uh done that here. Um, I hope I hope that you'll agree. Um, but the seminal case um that I think does the best job at explaining what substantial evidence means is a case that I've heard the boy from a number of years ago um that we use to kind of be our checklist to say did we look at the
occupancy rates? Did we do the kind of parcel by parcel type analysis um that the the courts really want us to do? So we determined as laid out in the report that three criteria are met.
Um one criteria H is uh you know not a criteria that I would ever have you be the only criteria. I call it like an accompanying criteria about smart growth. But the real meat of the of the findings here is criteria B and criteria D. Um we're going to go
through these this language in great detail together. Um, but criteria B is basically commercial buildings that aren't really used anymore, right? Just in in a in a nutshell. And and that I'm not going to ask you to rely on that one sentence. Um, we're going to go we're going to parse these letters apart,
these lang this language apart. Um, and then criteria D is things that are dilapidated, things that have fallen into a state of disrepair, things that can't really be used in the way that they were intended to be used um, in the first place. um
and that they've become kind of so bad that they're now having a negative impact on the general welfare. That's criteria D in a nutshell, plain English. Um and then again, criteria H is does this meet smart growth principles. I
would and it's a pretty low bar to be honest and I would never have you designate something based strictly on criteria H. All right, as promised. Um so let's we're going to read criteria B now together. Um the discontinuence of the use of a building or buildings
previously used for commercial retail um shopping malls or plazas, office parks, manufacturing or industrial purposes, the abandonment of such buildings and um significant vacancies of such building or buildings for at least two
consecutive years or the same being allowed to fall into such a great state of repair as to be untenable. So this um all the red stuff is the things that are really apply um to this case. But I'll also note that this
statute was recently updated I would say in the last three or four years um by the legislature um to include this particular sentence significant vacancies of such building or buildings for at least two consecutive years. Um,
this was considered the zombie asset, uh, like zombie malls, like vacant property. This was to help municipalities deal with vacant properties. Um, and that language was added to enable you to create redevelopment areas in places like that. Pause. Does everyone understand that
criteria? Questions on that criteria? Thank you, Mr. Chair, for doing that. Um, all right. So, first thing we have to do is determine what's significant vacancy. what is like how much vacancy is there? Um so again, we don't take anything at face value. We try to use
substantial evidence to demonstrate everything that I'm about to tell you. Um so we found in your records um a lease schedule um which looks at all the different square feet. Um and to make sure that that added back up to the
71,946 um we're about 700 feet off whatever um common or non leasable areas. Um so we believe that this 71215 is basically the number that we're working with. That is the full square
feet of this property. Um we conducted site visits against the lease schedule to determine okay is store number seven is that uh vacant or not vacant? Is store number eight vacant or not vacant? Um and that we then cross referenced
that both vi we did it both visually and we used the records that you guys so excellently keep here in municipal building. Um every year your businesses have to have a business license, right? Um so we made we look at the list of business licenses and we look for the
pro for the suites that don't have a business license associated with it. Lo and behold, there was no business in there also um in reality. So we didn't trust any one thing. We trusted our eyes. who trusted your documents. Um, so kind this is I do I do this a
lot, right? This is a pretty stark finding. Um, 85% vacancy here. 85%. Um, there's these uh just if you could
see this picture. I don't know if I can zoom in or not. I can't. Sorry. Um, these four circles are the only things that are occupied. the only suites that are occupied. So, the vast majority of this space, not 50%, not 75%, 85%
um is vacant. Um and the reason I'm kind of making such a big deal about this um is because the statute, and I'm going to talk more about this, the stat you you read that language. It just said significant vacancies. Nobody said nobody gave us a glossery that said this
is what significant means. Significant has to mean more than 50%. you know, this the legislature gives us vague terms and lets the municipalities try to give them meaning and lets the courts try to give them meaning. So, we're sitting here trying to figure out how do we put meaning to the term significant?
And are we being um too sensitive? Is 85% too sensitive? Is did they not mean that? I think maybe 10% wouldn't be significant, but 85% and we'll talk about why I think is um more than enough vacancy to to pass the bar under
criteria B. Um so I'm not going to go through each one of these, but I am going to leaf through like kind of leave through them quickly. Um but again, we looked at each one of these properties. This is the type of thing you see when you look in the window. um just a place
that was essentially um left alone by the property owner by the former tenant. Um no visible sign on suite one. You could see suite um 1B 1C Autos Bar. Um Rayo Salon empty. Um Shore Fit
Club and Spa empty. Mr. Abrams, just just real go back for one slide. I had a question. Are are these No, one for that one. Are these doors just left unlocked? Was that part of your finding? I don't know the answer. Uh I didn't take this
picture. Okay, that's fine. Not We can go on. Yeah. Yeah. Um sorry, I don't know the answer to that. Um the uh Tandoor Indian restaurant, uh empty. Um no signage. The windows transparency was
not visible. Um sweet 6B, no prior use, unnamed, vacant. Um, Evergreen Market Plant Flowers vacant. Um, 9AB vacant. Um, Takara Restaurant vacant. Or
Orchid Gardening Dining Suite 11 vacant. You get my point, right? Um, that the doors are locked, there's no signage. Um, there's not some of the windows weren't transparent, the dance studio. Um, so I went through all that
and put that all into the record because Again, the local redevelopment and housing law, which is the statute that we deal with, does not provide a meaning of significant vacancies. It's for us to figure it out. Um, so what do we do? Um, when it's probably a little closer. So, our typical practice is we want to
provide context like what if everything's vacant? What if everything's 85% vacant um on the street? Is it significant if Orchard Plaza now we we just single that one out? Um, that's not the case here. Um, but you know, the practice that I go through to make sure that we're not um
being again too precious uh or too sensitive about vacancy is to look along a corridor. So, we looked half a mile either way. Um, along Route 35, we found um I think four or five vacant properties
that are not like this property at all. They're not big shopping centers. There's, you know, there could be a um a commercial building that's vacant. There's um some partial vacancies in a plaza. There's a an old boarded up house. Um former dentist building. I
might say that these meet criteria B as well, right? But the existence of these does not somehow make Orchard Plaza doesn't normalize the type of vacancy that we see in Orchard Plaza. That's my planning conclusion and my um statutory
um analysis here. Um, and I think part of the reason um, for that and like why it's significant is that it's it's about um, percentage vacancy percentages. Um,
but it's also about the size, the sheer size of a place, 72,000 whatever number of square feet. Um, that's a that's significant. 10 11 acres on this uh, one of the largest parcels that you have on this corridor. That's significant. Um
85% that's significant. So that's what makes this these vacancies significant. Um and so kind of giving a foray into the next part of the presentation um that I also have to show that a
property or I also can show because significant vacancy is enough by itself in my opinion um under the under my view of read of that criteria B. Um, but I'm also going to show you how the property has been allowed to fall into a state
such a great state of disrepair that it is no longer tenable that you can't just, you know, throw a coat of paint on and reopen autos, you know, like in a couple weeks, like throw a liquor license in there and start having my ties. Um, so you're going to see in these next
several slides that this property is such a great state of repair that it can't be tenable. Um and my demonstration on criteria B um or criteria D quote criteria. Yeah. So this is
um so this is the last sentence in criteria B. So they're kind of two different um clauses in there. And then criteria D is basically what I'm saying is I'm not going to go into that under this criteria because the whole next thing is
about how poor the condition is of the properties. But if you're if you find that criteria D is met in my view that second part of criteria B also met. Um so now I'm going to kind of do the same thing with you guys on are you are we good on the vacancy part? Yes, Mr.
Chair. Thank you. Um criteria D uh areas of buildings or improvements which by reason of dilapidation, obsolescence, overcrowding, faulty arrangement or design, lack of ventilation, light and sanit lack of ventilation, light and
sanitary facilities, excessive land coverage, delletterious land use or obsolete layout or any combination of these or other factors whatever that means are detrimental to the safety, health, morals and welfare of the community.
Um, so all the things in red, um, as a preview are things that we're going to talk about. Dilapidation, faulty arrangement, excessive land coverage, and the detriments that those things cause, um, to the public. Do we have questions about that definition? Cool. Thanks. You guys are great. Um,
so, uh, dilapidation and the type of dilapidation I I'm seeing here, um, is like an operational dilapidation. Like the building's in has issues. Um, but what I'm also seeing is just uh a lack of care, a lack of maintenance. Um,
where you have uh couch old couches and stuff in the in the back. Um, like does that mean it's a dilapidated building? No. But I'm going to call it dilapidation because I do think a lack of maintenance was is fairly falls within criteria D. Maybe it falls within
quote unquote other factors. I'm going to call them um dilapidation for the moment. Trash and debris. um that we saw um areas of roof damage and roof leaks um which then on the other side in the areas that were publicly accessible. This is inside that
um arcade area. Um evidence of water damage. I'm not a mold expert. I'm not going to say that it's mold, but you certainly are seeing um evidence of water damage. Um we're seeing parking areas that are cracking where the vegetation
is coming through. So dilapidation isn't always just the vertical building itself. It can mean the horizontal improvements upon the property. Um sidewalks that have, you know, probably not been maintained, reporter, repointed since 1980. Um you
know, broken curbing that's probably about that old. Um you know, just very significant potholes. Uh potholes that have been repaired in a kind of slap dash way. um you know, cracked
walls. Um the parking lot, and I'm going to get into this a little bit more later, almost all the parking lot uh striping and all the parking lot like directional painting is gone. Um and it got me thinking about the work that you guys do
every day. Like I sit on boards as well and we review site plans and you know, should how wide should the egress aisle be? Do you want to have an arrow there? Should it say exit only? Think about the amount of care that you put into each site plan. And then for a like, you know, however many years later, all of
that is gone. All that's gone on this property. Um that's what we mean by dilapidation and faulty arrangement. All the things that kept people safe, that kept the public safe are now gone. um the faded and obstructed signage. Um you know, we saw hanging
wires, um you know, graffiti, uh you know, broken broken utility boxes, things like that on the property. Um drainage, the basin, um you know, these
types of storm water management really do require some level of maintenance on a regular basis for them to be functional. Um we saw trash clogging up all the inlets um which really doesn't make it too effective in terms of conveying storm water uh through the
pipes. Um you know we saw found a shopping cart in the stormwater basin. Um so again these it all comes down to maintenance. Like I think this thing was probably built correctly. It was probably designed correctly. It was done under the watchful eye um of the Ocean Township Planning Board. It's just
what's happened in the last 44 years. uh is the problem. Um 45 years the uh and then we see some of the evidence of uh you know that drainage um just where the site does not is not
working as it as it was supposed to. um lights. Some lights work, some lights don't work. You know, I I wouldn't base it all on this. Like, you know, you have a couple light bulbs out. That's not what redevelopment is. That's not what we mean. But when you these things all taken together just kind of tell a story
here. Um that when we saw children um being picked up, it's all happening in a fire lane. Um so de like faulty arrangement could mean operational again. that the
property is not being operated uh correctly and like what's the point of having a fire zone if all the parents are going to be parked in there? Um the ingress and egress um your these are under your code these
ingress and egress drives would be cons like are too wide right um and they shall be located within the center one-third of the frontage of the site and there's a lot more about some of these technical points of circulation in
the report um but we found some issues why did we even look at this because we pulled the accident records and there were a couple um records where I think someone was um hit on a bicycle uh driving down 35 um because of and in my view was probably because of either
overgrown vegetation or the signage um blocked the driver's view. Um that's in our that's in our report. Um and then some of the other things that you'll see here like these these painted um things about like this way.
This is why we know that this is an ingress, but like somebody leaving here something so wide here could easily make this left. Like yeah, at this point they'll probably realize they shouldn't do that. Um but all the other striping is gone on this drive lane like that.
Those arrows, all of that. Same thing here um on the egress lane. just the you know the uh arrows are missing. Um we found at least one of these with a course of a door with a course of cinder
block um between the bottom of the door and the top of this landing here. Um trip hazard uh and again faulty arrangement or design um excessive land coverage. So we calculate the land coverage here to be about acres
it comes to um 78 or if I remember correctly percent like the the zoning here is I think around 27% maximum permitted um so is this excessive I would say uh that it is particularly given its proximity um to a wetland
area and again all that is really listed in in very great detail um in the report. Um so then criteria H uh the designation delineated is consistent with smart growth planning principles. We're almost done. Um and so what are the types of things
that smart growth planning kind of promotes? U mix of land uses, attractive communities with a sense of place. Um I would just say that this area has access to a good road network and an
established commercial uh center. it's capable of handling mixed uses um if that's what the long-term desire was. So I think that redevelopment here could could be consistent um with the smart growth planning principle. This is just
some documentation um about that. But I think you know stabilizing older suburbs um redesigning areas of sprawl. I would consider this uh probably some example of urban sprawl um at the shopping center.
So, um, this is, you know, my conclusion, our recommendation as a team is that it qualifies under criteria BD D&H. I think that you could safely make that conclusion as a board. Um, but I, again, I, as Mr. Lexian said, I encourage you
to have dialogue, ask questions, challenge me on that. Um, and just to kind of let you know about where we're headed. Um, We're here. This is the public hearing on this. Um from here you'll make uh Mr. Lexi will probably
write a report um that'll be transmitted back to the governing body. Governing body will make a resolution um again reject, accept, modify um your conclusions and determine um if it's an area needed redevelopment. For example, for argument sake, let's say it is an area needed of
redevelopment. That's when you could start to do things like creating a redevelopment plan, which is really replaces the zoning for the property. Um, you could do um you could select a developer, um financial agreements, all that stuff. But again, until you do this
and until you do this correctly, um you can't even you're not allowed to work on any of those things, basically. So, I'm going to leave this up just in case anybody has a question about any of the slides. Um, but otherwise I'm available for questions. I had a question on the impervious coverage. If you go back a
few uh so it looked like you kind of traced around the entire outside, but I see the center area has a lot of Yes. I think what we did was we um subtracted the the area that we knew um
was the footprint of the building um from that. So I can get you Yeah. And I had a question on this as well. How exactly did you determine it? Because I looked at other sources that had a slightly higher percentage of coverage.
Give me one second. Thank you. Uh some maybe half a little little less. Yeah. Just so here's what um here's what my notes say. Um 1980 subdivision
um the was the site plan approval included the site plan approval for Orchard Plaza. The property at that point was 14.13 acres um which included that other area on the side 4.285 acres which only had a billboard on it. That was all undisturbed and that's how
coverage was calculated um at that time. And that's really how that property ended up getting approved because there was like kind of a land dedication if you will. Um a review of the records that existing coverage calculations they're unclear in the signature set and the site plans. We could not find a
specific that's why we don't typically do this. We typically just go to an asbel plan. It was not clear in the records that we had. Um and that the analysis is that we're at um 78% coverage, which is 7.9 acres of
coverage. Oh, the reason why is because you say we didn't subtract the building, but it's all impervious. I meant the uh the green areas in the center. Oh, plaza. Yeah. I mean, there may be like I don't know exactly what those are. Um,
so maybe there's a quarter acre there um difference, but it's not going to be close to what um the 27% permitted is. Oh yeah, I was just saying for the sake of accuracy, I think we should Yeah, I think it's a good point. I think it's a good point. I I would suggest you uh
take a look at Ran University's mapping project that has an excellent impervious coverage calculator that I know the environmental commission uses frequently. um has clocks it at 81% coverage split between building road and
other. Okay. So if you can please verify and and check that we want to make sure that to your point we are as accurate as possible. I appreciate that sir. Other comments questions? Oh I have a few. Uh if you want to take a look in
the interest of accuracy, page seven of your report and you mentioned it in the slides, you clocked in the lot size is 10.71 acres. On the following page on page eight, you clocked it in at 10.071
acres, which is over half an acre difference. I think it is that other number on page eight. If you can please verify and update the report. Yeah, based on the accuracy there, can we talk about smart growth
principles for a moment? We'll skip ahead to page 42. I I think and this is something that I want to see added back into this report because unfortunately I think you missed one of the biggest things that this site has when it relates to smart growth. Ocean Township
does not have a rail line. Ocean Township has a highway and despite the fact that there's a sidewalk in front of Orchard Plaza, Route 35 is not exactly what anyone would call walkable. However, there is a bus stop there. This
site has access to public transit that a number of other sites don't, which makes its appeal to smart growth and mixed use higher than most other places on Route 35. there's only a handful of stops and there are a number of people in Ocean Township who use public transit to get
to work and to get home from work. I think it's really important that that gets noted in this report and I think that uh the access to it is it's critical. It changes all of the considerations of whether or not this site is appropriate for smart growth. I think it was originally, but I think it
makes it even more so when we take into the fact that it has public transit. Thank you. The other piece on page 37 going back to transit into these driveways for a second. I I just want to get some clarification here. Our
ordinance talks about uh and I'll read it. All curb cuts must shall be at least 15 feet but not more than 30 feet in width except on county or state roads where applicable county or state requirements are established. 35 is a state highway. So what's the standard
for the state highways? you don't if you don't know that's okay but if you can if you can make a revision and add that into the report I think that's also really critical to make sure that we get this right and not relying on our municipal statute when it's the state that applies there
okay anybody have anything else does this look at you know other the report look at other factors like that, you know, possibly criminal activity on the site, you know, does it look at did it factor that in? Uh um we
did look at and I think it's they're all in here. Um that there was a number of, you know, different complaints, mostly code enforcement. Um but we did pull everything. You know, different departments kind of um provide
different amounts of detail. Okay. Um I don't know that there was a lot of criminal type activity. Okay. But but I I should have said or andor code violations. So there's significant Yes. ongoing code violations discovered.
Maybe not as significant. Um like I think we had like maybe four. Um maybe not as significant as you would have thought, but okay. Um again, like a lot of this goes code enforcement is in different communities can be very
different. Um and sometimes it's very reactive. Sometimes it's when people complain. Um you know, I think a lot of members of the public think that there's like robing patrols of code enforcement. Um not always the case. So um there just may not have been a cause
uh to to do that. Um yeah, but we didn't go and create evidence um as a result of this study either. Um we didn't ask code enforcement to go and do a crackdown. Um I've been in other municipalities where that has been done uh as part of this
process. But has code enforcement been working with this particular property owner? Okay. Anything else from the board before we open it to the public? All right. Uh, Mr. selection, do we need to take a vote to open it to the public or can we just I don't think you
ever need to. All right. Uh so, uh we have a microphone up here. If anyone has any questions, comments that they they want to make, um please just state your name and address and Mr. Lex will swear you in. I'll get up at once.
I don't even know if I need this for You do not need Sounds good. I'll just do it as it is. attorneys are always honest and never I do have to insist you use the microphone. We we are recording so can you hear me? The the audience at home likes to hear our present. Sounds good. I'm just not a performer. So if I
don't know where to hold this I apologize. So Anthony Saro Fagor Drinker B and wreath my firm represents the property owner. We're here tonight just simply because uh candidly I was the one who found out about the hearing tonight
about the preliminary investigation uh uh just by mere chance of looking at the agendas. So apart from any statutory notice that's required to be given uh by the redevelopment law. I'm here just respectfully requesting that the board
table its ultimate decision and the recommendation that it provides to the governing body as to whether the area uh constitutes a need of redevelopment. That way I have an opportunity to review the report with the uh property owner and its team provide our meaningful
participation in this process which I think is paramount given that we're talking about my client's property. and then for both sides uh making sure that all of our uh uh feedback and comments are put into the record. So, and Mr.
Chairman, I would agree um first of all, statutory notice was given and it jurisdiction is with the board tonight. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to have this meeting. But I do agree with councel that if if he's requesting and he does represent the property owner that he carry it one month to the June
25th meeting is when we would carry it to that would be appropriate. Is it to the 23rd? Did I do it wrong? June 25th is a Wednesday. June June 18th is the next meeting. Well, June 12th is the next meeting. We have a special
meeting. Yeah, that's Yeah, I have it down for in my book. I have June 25th. I'm sorry. No, I have a June 23rd. That Monday. Oh, it's June 23rd.
Monday, June 23rd. I apologize. I had it wrong either. I had it wrong originally. All right. So, so Monday, June 23rd when we would carry it to. I think that is appropriate. The only thing I would ask council is that if you're going to produce a report, a counter report that
you do give us the courtesy of submitting that uh paperwork in at least 10 days in advance of the of the hearing to give our professionals an opportunity to take a look at it. I don't like being ambushed as neither do you. Fair enough. And so, we would appreciate that. That's fair enough. Just uh two housekeeping
items. The first being just send me an email, let me know who to distribute it to. That way I could flip out our report at the same time through the call. Okay, that makes it easy. And then the board tonight had a few uh uh very good comments and recommendations that will be an updated report. So I just want to
make sure that we don't have any drafts crossing with with updates to that report. I I agree and Phil you will update your report and get that in. I mean that should be easy to do. Yes. What we're asking that didn't take months. Yes, because that those are the only comments the board had. You just
wanted to see that information in there, correct? Mhm. Okay. So, those are easy revisions. We can end up and we'll we'll use that draft. Sure. Okay. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. You won't render a decision, but if anyone else is here wants to talk, you
should still take that opportunity if you wish. Anyone else from the public have a comment, a question? All right. Bill, come on up to the microphone. Just uh state your name and address for the
record. Okay. Hi, I'm Eti. I live uh over here off of Logan, 11:01 Franklin Avenue. Um I drive by this uh plaza a lot. I'm actually a realtor and I happened to try to fill a
vacant one of the vacant uh stores over there and um it was very hard to me for me to even reach the owner. Uh when I called that number in the front, no one answered. I called the other tenants there, they didn't have any information. So just getting it, you know, up and
going, which would be beneficial to us as the people here. Um I don't think he has any realtor representing him. and we actually know know him very well and uh we've been trying to help him you know revamp and it's been uh a little bit
he's been hesitant so I think hopefully with with this meeting it should uh help him try to get things going at least in one way or the other instead of kind of being hesitant to get things going and keeping it empty. So uh just for your
knowledge I guess. All right. Thank you. Anybody else? All right. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing portion? I'll move to close the public hearing. Do I have a second? Oh, wait. I think there
just for this just for the public hearing tonight. Yes. Well, I have a comment, but it doesn't pertain to this and it has nothing to do with the redevelopment. That that's our only agenda item this evening. We we do have one more agenda item, but yeah, you
decide. You don't have a public comment. No. So, the planning board doesn't have a public comment period. It doesn't It's not required. Yeah. Because And the reason the planning board doesn't have a public comment period is because it's inappropriate to for the planning board to comment on applications if if there or or anything of that nature if council
wasn't here for that property. So, how do how do I resolve a problem that's been going on for years? Well, wouldn't it be you wouldn't have a problem with the planning board? You would have a problem. I think comment three years ago. Well, hold on. Hold on. Let's let's finish one thing and then We can take we can talk. Yeah, that
let's let's do that. All right. So, we have a motion to close the public hearing. Second it. All in favor? I. So, we have a request to not vote on this application tonight to carry it to the next meeting. Ivorate made some requests for Mr. Abramson to make some revisions
to the report. Does anyone feel that holding it to next meeting would be inappropriate? Yeah. All right. Well, then we're going to carry this until the June 25th. 23rd June 23rd meeting. Um, and then we'll we'll go from there. All right. So, we
just need a we need a motion to carry it to June 23rd without Well, there wouldn't be any Well, yeah, without further notice. You don't have to. All right. Do I have a a motion to carry? I'll move. Moved by Jack. Do I? Seconded by Mr. Beal. All in favor? I. All right.
So, anyone who's here on this uh on this presentation, if you want to be heard, you need to return here on June 23rd in this room at 7 p.m. There will not be any further notice. Okay. All right. Uh does anyone have you we do have another agenda item? Yes.
before right on top where it says topology LLC right on top there was a resolution from the town council authorizing the planning board to undertake a study to determine if certain property known as a township ocean municipal complex identified as plot 25 plot two the study area on the tax map to determine whether the study
area meets the criteria set for the redevelopment law and should be designated as an area needed redevelopment without power domain now I'm assuming with this is to hire a planner to do that study correct and it would be topology so we need a motion from the board to uh retain topology to
conduct that study if that's the board's pleasure. I'm just hung up on the lack of eminent domain from the municipality for itself. Seems very meta to me, but okay. Um All right. Do do we have a um we need a motion to accept this resolution? Move
by Mr. Beal. Do a second. Second. Moved by Mr. Minnell. Seconded by Mr. Manell. There should be a roll call. Roll call, please. Okay. Mr. Yes. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Yes.
Did I vote? Mr. Okay. It's been a long day, folks. I I apologize. All right. Then, uh, if there's nothing else, do I have a motion to adjourn? Moved by Miss Valente. Do I have a second? I'll second. Seconded by Mr.
May. All in favor? I. All right. Thank you very much. Have a great evening. Thank you