Okie dokie. Can I have a roll call, please? >> Mayor Nlutani >> here. >> Deputy Mayor Fischer >> here. >> Council member Zachera >> here. >> Kaplan and Telerica >> here.
>> Can we please stand and do a pledge of allegiance and remain standing as we do a silent prayer? >> Fisher, find a flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands.
>> One nation under God, >> indivisible, liberty and justice for all. Please remain standing. I'd like to do a moment of silence in memory of Marge Eden, who we are doing a St. Patrick's Day celebration
this evening for Marge. You may be seated or whatever you're doing right now as we're doing this online. Uh not not a big fan of the online stuff, but here we are. We have to get this meeting in. The notice requirements of the open public
meetings act for this meeting have been satisfied and a copy of the annual notice was sent to the Asbury Park Press posted in town hall and filed with the municipal clerk on March 9th, 2026. We have individual action which is B1
approving the introduction of the 2026 municipal budget. Can someone please offer? I'll make a motion to introduce the 2026 municipal budget. >> Second. >> Second. >> Roll call.
>> Aera. >> Yes. >> Fisher. >> Yes. >> Telerico. >> Yes. >> And Nepotani? >> Yes. Um, all matters listed under the consent agenda are considered routine by
the township council and will be enacted by one motion in the form listed below. There will be no separate discussion on these items. If discussion is desired on any item, that item will be considered separately. The purpose of the public portion is to solely ask questions and
understand resolutions that appear on this agenda. One quick statement before I open it up for public comment. There has been some questions in regard to the overlay zone. We have our professionals on here, uh, Mary Beth Lanigan, that's
going to, uh, answer most of those questions today. I just want to preface this by stating that there is an overlay zone in the English Manor area and I can assure you that there has been nothing in the municipality brought to us or
from English Manor that they are looking to redevelop any of their property at this point. Quite the contrary, they just spent a fortune renovating it, which they will be having a uh probably a ribbon cutting at some point and it's absolutely magnificent. So, there has
been nothing on the table for an affordable project over there. I just wanted to open up the meeting with that. And now what I'll do is open it up for public questions. Jesse, just please let us know uh you know if there's people on there. Understand we have a limit and we
will open the questions now. For the resolutions only. >> For the resolutions only. Yes. >> Does anybody Oh, got something. >> Yes. Mike, you want to unmute yourself?
>> Sure. Uh, first of all, uh, thank you, Mayor Nalanian board. Um, I appreciate >> Hi, Michael. How are you, bud? >> I'm I'm good. Yeah. >> Um I I was sort of chosen as the duly appointed representative for the entire residence of just May I just interrupt
you? This isn't about the resolutions right now. This is just the the uh the ordinance rather. It's just about the resolutions. The ordinances will be >> okay. Then then I'll then I'll be back on later. Thank >> Perfect. Thank you. Anybody
else want to to be heard on the resolutions? >> Say yes. >> Yes. >> John Waldron. >> Okay. >> Hi John. >> Hi John. >> Hi. Hi. Uh I'm not sure but I just want
to clarify. Uh is this regard the the the resolution is is what >> is different than the ordinances? The resolutions were just >> the ordinances are what we as residents
received uh in the mail. So I that everything has to be has to wait for that. >> Yes, we have to wait for we'll have time for question and answers on adop on the adoption of the ordinances. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. >> Yes, sir. Anyone else wishing to be
heard on any of the resolutions on the agenda? >> Seeing here none, do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda of the resolutions? >> I move to approve the consent agenda. >> Second. >> Second.
>> Roll call. >> Aera. >> Yes. >> Fisher. >> Yes. >> Kaplan. Yes, >> Telerico. >> Uh, yes for 056 and yes for 057, no for 058.
>> Okay, thank you. >> And Neatani. >> Yes. Ordinances up for adoption in uh ordinance 2535 which is an ordinance to repeal and replace ordinance 25 21-9A
affordable housing redevelopment fees and section 21-B affordable housing. Can someone please open up public comment on ordinance 2535? >> Like to make a motion to open up public comment on uh ordinance 2535.
>> Second. >> Second. Roll call. >> Aera, >> yes. >> Fisher, >> yes. >> Kaplan, >> yes. >> Terrico, >> yes. And Nepali, >> yes. Anyone wishing to speak on
ordinance 2535, please state your name and address for the record. You have five minutes. John, Mike, this might be your shot. No, this is the one they want. 2538, Rob. >> Got it. Very good.
>> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Seeing here. None. Do I have a motion to close public comment on ordinance 2535? >> Like to make a motion to close the public comment on ordinance 2535. >> Second. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Aera.
>> Yes. >> Fisher. >> Yes. >> Kaplan. >> Yes. >> Terrier. I I have a just a quick question. I don't know if the attorney's on, but can I vote yes just for the 20% of the affordable housing units and no for the
other 80%. >> I I'm not sure I understand the question. Um the ordinance itself is not just about what the set aides are. It's how the entirety of the affordable housing um process is going to be is governed. It's a repeal and replace to
reflect the new regulations that were adopted by the state um as part of the round four updates. They were just adopted in uh December. And it the set aides in there are don't prohibit the opportunity for 100%
affordable projects if if you're opposed to having the 80% market rates that go with a project. >> Yes. >> Yeah. that that would be something that could also be sight specific, but it's not something that you could break up in the um voting on the ordinance over
>> in the ordinance. Okay. Uh so, no for me. Thank you. >> Wait, you're voting no to close public comment? >> No, I'm voting no for the adoption. I'm sorry. >> We didn't we didn't have take action yet. >> Okay. I apologize. Uh yes, for closing the public comment. I apologize.
>> Yeah, because we definitely want to close the public comment. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> And >> yes, action on ordinance 2535. >> I'd like to move to adopt ordinance 2535 and publish according to law. >> Second.
>> Second. >> Roll call. >> Ara, >> yes. >> Fisher, >> yes. >> Kaplan, >> yes. >> And Telerico, >> no. >> And Neblateni, >> yes.
>> Ordinance 2535 passes. Ordinance 2538, which is an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 21, the comprehensive land development ordinance of the township of ocean, article 4, zoning provision section 21-17, establishment of zones, section 21-18,
official tax map. Can someone please open public discussion on ordinance 2538? >> Like to make a motion to open public uh discussion on ordinance 2538. Second. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Aera.
>> Yes. >> Fisher. >> Yes. >> Kaplan. >> Yes. >> Telerico. >> Yes. >> And Neutenni. >> Yes. Anyone wishing to speak on ordinance >> anyone wishing to speak on ordinance
>> 2538. >> Please state your name and address for the record. You have a fiveminut limit. >> Right. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Napalani. Uh, Michael Popio, Mike Popio, 21 Dorset Road. I'm speaking on behalf
of the entire Dorset Road community. Uh, we met as a a thing. I can I can read their entire the entire list into the record if you would like, but that would probably take up a good portion of my time. >> Mike, you're you're fine. We we that's good. As long as we have one representative, I'm glad to hear that.
>> Okay, great. Um, thank you first of all for letting us know about any the lack of any potential development given what English Manor is doing. Be that being said, we still have a number of concerns that would come with the creation of that overlay zone
as it pertains to any future development should English Manor decide to sell or or develop. Um, again, that a lot of this will probably take most of my more than my allotted five minutes of time. I would like to present these to the board
um because these concerns ensure are about around ensuring infrastructure and safety considerations for the existing Dorset Road English Matter neighborhood. Making sure all of that is fully evaluated before any potential
development in 5 10 15 20 years is under effect. things as it refers to emergency access, flooding, storm water management, um building height density. We have a very long list of of questions,
situations, concerns, and key questions that surround that. Um obviously, we had a specific plan, but given the limitations, we can't enact that. So, how would we bring that to the board as far as enacting of this ordinance
goes? >> Okay, Mike, you want to just ask all your questions and then, you know, we have our attorneys on here this week and get it all out and then >> Yeah. >> this way, you know, we're we're we're set. You know what I mean? >> Sure. the
you know the the fir the one of the biggest ones is that a large section of the overlay zone as it was mapped out is in a FEMA ae designated flood zone. uh the un the unnamed road and that entire grass area up to that street that street
is part of a flood zone uh Logan Road between 11:15 and 1113 frequently floods during storms as well as English Manners drain and any any potential development that could come from this zone would seem to only exacerbate that
specific problem. Uh we also did have a sinkhole that was just fixed over by the bridge on Logan Road. Um and we have concerns that that would also end up being weakened by any potential development. Um the existing streets
that we have are very narrow. Um emergency access can often be blocked because of deliveries to English Manor. Um we need we would like an evaluation of any emergency vehicle access and turning radiis. uh uh the storm water management
development obviously increases imperous surfaces and runoff. Um that will the township require any kind of comprehensive storm water management plan to evaluate downstream impacts? Um will drainage calculations be independently reviewed?
Um uh just general safety. There is currently no safe access for the Dorset Road area to get out to Logan Road. There's a blind curve on Logan Road leading to the eventual sidewalk. Um, children bike on that street. We walk on
that street. That's the only way that we can get there. Um, increase density from any potential development would increase pedestrian and bicycle traffic. And if that unnamed street were eventually eliminated, the bus pickup and turning area where the children currently have
their bus stop would be affected. Uh we'd like to know if the township would consider adding sidewalks or pedestrian improvements along that small stretch of Logan Road. Um the there are let me see what else do
they have here. the the current parking situation between English Manor and the overflow from the funeral home across the street turns English Lane and the unlamed road in effectively into a into oneway streets and one lane. Um the
ordinance overlay zone proposes eliminating that unnamed street which would rem eventually remove the existing parking supply. Um, how would the township address this loss of off- streetet parking, off Logan Road parking I should say, and that
parking along English Lane? Um, have you evaluated the funeral homes overflow parking impacts? These are just some of the key ones. I can I can provide uh an entire list to the board. I don't want to chew up your
entire meeting time. Michael, >> there are a lot that comes with this. >> So, Mike, what what I can say and I'm gonna let our professionals, our attorney answer, you know, your questions. I I I think that they're
thinking I I understand thinking ahead. I'm I totally agree with you being concerned. Um, right now, again, like I said, there is nothing in front of the township. Uh, there is nothing from English Manor. there is nothing on the on the docket that's saying that they're
going to sell and redevelop. Um, all of your issues obviously would be addressed to the board, which would be the planning board at the time if a development ever did come into play. Now, I'm going to lob it over to Mary
Beth and our professionals so that they can, you know, answer this appropriately. Mary Beth, do you want to take this or do we want uh who else would take it? Is Mary Beth on? >> Sure. Uh good afternoon.
>> Mary Beth Lanigan. Yes. Thank you. >> Yes. Good afternoon. Um my name is Mary Beth Lanigan. I'm the township's affordable housing planner. I'm a partner at Clark Kaitton Hints and we've been the township's affordable housing planner for about 20 years now. Um just
wanted to provide just a little background on these overlay zones. So this ordinance before you this afternoon um includes not only the English Manor site but also another site. Um the the
overlay zones as the mayor had had noted uh there's a number of overlay zones throughout the township and uh the overlay zoning is a requirement of the court approved housing element in
fair share plan as well as a settlement agreement with fair share housing center and these overlay zones really as the mayor noted um they are put in place uh the underlying zoning
remains but um the and for the English manor site that underlying zoning is uh C3 commercial uh so that underlying zoning remains in place um overlay zoning as I'm sure many
of you are aware is put in place to really um potentially produce additional afford affordable housing as part of an inclusionary development which is noted earlier. It's 80% market rate housing
and 20% affordable housing. Um that's a real brief background. Um I wanted wanted to be clear that this proposed uh English Manor overlay zone is approximately about 1 acre. It includes
uh block 139, lot one and what we have uh shown as um an unnamed street that I appreciate has um overflow parking for English Manor and um and other businesses.
The the site does not include the English Manor own lot. It's uh block 140 and I believe it's uh lot 65.02 that is not included as as part of this
overlay zone. I I'd like to now if if I may address uh uh the residents your your general concerns as as the mayor noted the majority of your concerns would be fully detailed
and addressed as part of the planning board. um any type of future site plan application in in in front of the planning board. Um it it is important to know that inclusionary zoning does not allow a
developer to bypass D regulations. So any regulations for flood hazard, any storm water control regulations, um RSIs, residential site improvement, parking standards, emergency access, all
of those issues um are still in play and would have to be addressed by any developer or any development proposed for this site. Um to be clear, this again, the site is approximately one acre.
um with the proposed zoning, even if uh potentially anywhere from 10 to 12 total housing units are proposed on if if um if permitted. The what what you're looking at is
you're looking at 20% of these units to be affordable. Um, so if there's 10 total units, eight market, two affordable, it it um I'm going to stop there and ask
if you'd like to ask any other specific questions beyond um something that's more related to would be more uh related to the planning board's review. uh you know the the planning board
engineer and the planning board planner would be going over the vast majority of your of the concerns as as they're reviewing the development application. >> Yeah. So Dan Coco here at 29 Dorsa Road.
>> Excuse me just for one second. There's residents that can't get into the Zoom. Is there a phone number that they can call >> Trying to see if I can find a phone? >> It's on the website. I just checked. It's um if you go to the website where it says special council meeting under
Township News, the one tap mobile is there. >> Okay, thanks. >> Okay. Uh Dan Koko, 29 Dorset Road. I do have a few additional questions. Um question number one,
heard a few times here that this is not going to happen. Well, the obvious question is why is it being proposed in the first place? And were other sites considered before choosing this? >> That's the only question, Dan. >> Uh, nope. There are multiple, but I just
don't want >> get get them all out only because you have a limit and this way Mary Beth can answer them. >> Okay, so that's question number one. Question number two, you said approximately one acre. Can you confirm the exact acreage?
Question number three, the ordinance uh allows for both 12 a.5 units per acre for town homes and 15 units per acre for multif family apartments. What is the intent or plan for development on this
site? Is it town homes or apartments? Both? Which one? And what is the maximum unit count that the township anticipates? That was a multi-art question. Uh number three, the ordinance allows 45
ft and three levels of living space for the building height. That could be interpreted as a parking level at the ground level plus three additional heights above or three additional floors above that. How will the township interpret that 45 ft height?
Uh question or comment number four. Uh a few times I heard the phrase overflow parking on the unnamed street. I would like to clarify that uh it is very frequently used as parking. Uh it's not
overflow. So literally any event that happens at the English manor uh or the funeral home that is between Dorset Road and Route 35, that unnamed road is used as parking, >> not overflow.
Uh question number five um about parking standards. English matter overlay references township parking rules why the while the other overlay references New Jersey residential site improvement standards and parking requirements are often based on bedroom count per unit.
Why are there different parking standards apply to the two overlay zones? Question number six, is there a limit on the number of bedrooms per unit? Question number seven, will the parking requirements scale with the bedroom count? Question number eight,
how many parking units uh how many parking spaces are allotted per unit? Uh question number nine, how will the township specifically address the loss of existing street parking? Question number 10, will additional off- streetet
parking be required beyond the minimum standards? Question number 10. Has the township evaluated the funeral home uh specifically in its evaluation and consideration of this space for both its parking and
you know apparent overflow parking. >> That's it. >> Anything Mary Beth? Uh again I you you know you can answer the questions but like I said there is no plan here so we really can't address anything that's not in front of us. But Mary Beth I'll lob
it over to you. Certainly. Um I'm I've tried to uh take notes. Um other sites so other sites were were reviewed and to be clear there are other um overlay zoning sites including uh the
both golf courses. Uh deal is about 96 acres. Hollywood's about 180 acres. There's overlay zoning on on both of those. Norward Avenue has about a 14 acre overlay zone. The Herbert Avenue site is just a shade under six acres and
this is about one acre. Um there was overlay zoning um in play on the CV Square Mall but um that had to be eliminated due to the um uh uh existing
ongoing remediation efforts at the site. The exact acreage is 1.03 acres gross acres. Um, again, that is
we're looking at the unnamed street that would have to be vacated that is included in that acreage. Um, so if if you know that that acreage actually may
be um further defined as part of um the the actual reszoning, but but we have um called out a a portion of that unname um unnamed street.
Which type of units? Um the ordinance is set up to allow either uh town houses or uh apartment flats. The maximum unit count, it's not known that that would not be known until uh an
engineer and developer um look at again uh storm water um on-site storm water requirements, uh parking requirements and and so forth. So many of your questions I'm would
really still have to wait for any type of site plan developed for a future development. The 45 ft height um I I will get back to you. I will um work
with the township's engineer to uh see as far as the how the township um planning board defines height. I I it was intended to be uh
three floors I mean uh three stories 45 foot height. I appreciate you're saying you are concerned if it would be one story of parking with three stories above. Um I don't have a uh I don't have
an interpretation for you. Uh the parking standards, it's uh common throughout the township's overlay, current overlay zoning. As far as the parking standards um rely on the RSIS
requirements, there are RSIS requirements as I'm sure you're aware of parking per unit by bedroom count. There is no limit on bedrooms for the
market housing and there is a um a ratio of bedroom counts for the affordable units. Um a a rough uh guide is typically developers provide 20% of
the units as onebedrooms. um 20% must be three bedrooms and the balance are typically uh two bedrooms. the I'd say the last three or four
comments provided were were really um nittygritty site plan concerns for the planning board that aren't that that really cannot be answered at this
uh reszoning stage. >> Okay. Yeah, thank you. And I appreciate your responses and good job keeping track of everything I said because I think you did a better job than I did. Even I do have a follow-up question to your response to my first question about
the why. Um, and especially con considering you mentioned multiple other sites with many acres available and this little lonely parcel here of just over one acre. Um, why why do you need it?
>> Yeah. So, there was um an amendment to the New Jersey Fair Housing Act uh that came into play two years ago and there's very specific requirements for
towns such as Ocean Township where uh Ocean, your community, you have a vacant land adjustment and simply put um the state had assigned a much larger affordable housing
obligation to the township. Uh we prepared what's called a vacant land analysis, created a realistic development potential of what you could um uh realistically address and
the balance of what you potentially could not address. um realistically in the h in the uh township's housing element and fair share plan from from last uh last May uh adopted in June.
It's called unmet need. And the unmet need again is that this is really what we've been talking about where these overlay zones are put into place to uh potentially provide an opportunity for
future development to address this unmet need of affordable housing. What happened uh two years ago is that there's a very specific um con uh requirement for 25%
of of a town's unmet need to be addressed through um the the phrasing is realistic zoning. So the it was important for the township to
um provide a calculation of how the town would be addressing uh this 25% requirement and um that is reflected in a settlement agreement that was entered into between the
township and fair share housing center. Uh Fairshair Housing Center is a statewide housing advocacy group and they have held virtually every town including Ocean Township um to meeting
this requirement. So I'm sorry that's a long answer a long answer to come back to say um yes this this uh overlay zone is is is needed.
>> Yeah. Thank you, Mary Beth. Anybody else wishing to be >> still got a window within my five minutes? >> Yep. But Dan, I have to let other people I asked you, you know, before I have to let other people speak now. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, I I still have some time within my
five I didn't speak for five minutes. >> Dan, when I asked you if you had other questions, I asked you to lay them out for me. That's why >> No, those were all my questions. But Mary Beth used the phrase realistic zoning. I would like to express on behalf of all my neighbors uh this area
is unrealistic for the zoning opportunity and I would like to reiterate and stress that especially since it is just one acre that you are considering here uh we encourage the board to explore any and all other opportunities for that realistic zoning
opportunity because this is not that. Thank you. >> Thank you Dan. Anybody else wishing to be heard? >> Yes, John Waldron. >> Yes, John. Okay, >> John name and address for >> John Waldron, 1207 Herbert Avenue here
in Ocean Township. And obviously my overlay concerns are the Herbert Avenue whole possibility. >> Uh I first of all just ask why I mean Wana Massa is a working neighborhood,
you know, a bunch of working people. And I ask uh why this meeting is at 3:00 when I personally had to take off of work for that you know to just to be here and to find out and a lot of people
that work are not able to come to this you know and that that's it's kind of a a difficult thing for all of us to express ourselves when this you know at this early a meeting
Other questions are uh obviously we're all on the same page. We're all worried about the impact in the future. Um, and the the uh one of the things specific to
the Herbert Avenue area, I I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but where Rosseld Avenue meets Herbert Avenue, that used to be a road and it used to be back in the 60s, uh, a town dump, you know, so
there's a lot of, uh, uh, this was before regulations. Who knows? And I it was used for many many years as the town dump. Um and I know I just can't imagine disturbing
that uh and creating some sort of toxic mess. Uh that's one thing. Uh obviously the uh uh the water in this area is is very
difficult. uh it floods a great deal and that has already been mentioned and I think the whole area is is is subject to that kind of uh flooding. Uh the the street parallel to Herbert Avenue um uh
Allenhurst Avenue floods completely. Uh it's very very uh difficult area and then to go and change by adding more uh buildings, taking away
more trees which we all know as much as trees are being ripped down here in town. They're needed as as as giant sponges, if you will, taking a lot of that water away from, you know,
flooding areas. And uh the the other uh a lot of this was already covered. I I do I did want to ask if if there were and it kind of has been covered perhaps, but
I I'll ask anyway. Is there uh a a specific plan for this particular overlay area? You know, have has has this been uh further well have is there a plan for anything
right now for this area? Are there thoughts on that? And um has are are considerations of housing density uh you know uh cons is is that
considered uh just it's already a very very crowded area. Logan Road is is is very tough now. Uh it's tough to cross Logan Road on side streets. Uh
I've been here for a very long long time and I have seen a great deal of changes as there will be in any town but this is be seems to be less uh of a uh a suburban type neighborhood and seems to
be heading more toward an urban congestion and and uh uh density that it just doesn't it isn't Ocean Township, you know, I at least that's the way I
look at it. Um, and I think everything about infrastructure and all that has already been brought up. So, and I understand that you don't have that kind of information at this time. So, uh,
basically I think that that's those are my concerns. >> That Thank you, John. Um, just to um just to uh answer that on the development plans and such, there are no
plans there either. Again, I'm going to lob this one back over to Mary Beth. Um, so >> this this site uh does have some um preliminary plans from a developer and and I want to
be clear that this this site the development plans are coming from an owner of right along Route 35. Um, and this is kind of the back of the I just want to make sure that we're on
the same page where this site is. It's literally the the lots that are just behind all of the the commercial properties fronting on the east side. Yes, the east side of northbound uh 35.
So um this is a shade under as I said shade under 6 acres um there it is a about half an acre of um shown DP wetlands. So you know closer closer to
uh 5 acres net. Um but again this is so this um this site does come out to 35. Um so the proposal and again this would all be
much of this would be site plan um review as far as you know appropriate access. There's a number of lots here. Um the potential developer u may or may not have access to Herbert Avenue. Um
there are some paper streets that would be um vacated. Um so I I wanted to um also talk to you about density. So, it's the same density uh
uh allow allowances as part of this overlay zone. Again, it's um 12.5 to the acre for town houses and up to 15 for multifamily flats. You also talked about storm water
requirements and again I just want to reiterate um there is there's no doubt that any developer would have to address D's storm water requirements and uh what you have seen and what you know I've been
doing this for a you know decades and um typically the storm water runoff well not typically D requires this storm water runoff um to be contained on site. Um so in in in
many instances it actually helps in some cases it helps neighborhood storm water issues. Um and uh one other thing Mary Beth John mentioned uh it was a potential dump at one time back in uh you know way before
any of our time. uh the municipality is dealing with our own piece of property on Cydney Lane and I can assure you that if that's the case and uh there's any trace of that whoever owns it, whoever decides to put in a a proposal, they're
going to have to break through EPA and D well before they even get to our level. I assure you that because we're having a major problem on Cindy Lane right now. >> Can that very bad. Sorry about that. Can I just say can that be on record that
there was a dump there? Because as I as a kid I used to come here and I remember >> John the only John the only way it would be on uh I I I that's question out of my hands. I would have to uh send that to the engineer for that one or our professionals
>> because it w that was a a a big issue for for a long time back then. got married. >> I want people to be aware of it. I'd like it to be on record that that's at least >> I'm aware of it. You know that, you
know, that you you know that >> John Duly noted on that. Um our manager's on here, he uh uh Dave Brown, if you can note that with what John's saying, that would be great. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Mary Beth, are are you
>> Mary Beth? Are you finished? >> I was I was finished. um answering this gentleman. >> Good question. Anybody else wishing to be heard? Please state your name. >> Questions. >> Okay. Uh name and address for the record. >> Sure. I don't have to give my address,
but it's Alex Hayes Oakst. Um so, kind of what I do generally, as you all know, since I come to meetings is I just kind of rattle off my questions um to save time since you only give us five minutes. Um, I just want to reiterate the frustration that others have said
about a 3pm meeting on a Thursday. This meeting was hardly publicized. It's horrible timing. I also had to take off for this. And I must say, while you do finally have the link to Zoom online, you don't have the phone numbers. Not
everybody has access to Wi-Fi. I left my office, went in my car, and I still couldn't log in. I had no way to physically call in. Any Zoom meeting should have instructions on how anybody can call in with the password and the meeting ID number. So, I feel like that
was poor planning. There's also no chat and I see no way to raise hands. Um, okay. So, getting back to my questions, I asked at the last um board meeting, the two overlay zones, the Herbert A and the English Manor, since your affordable
housing plan discusses how many units per acre. Um I asked at that meeting a couple weeks ago, how many units in total are we talking about? I still haven't heard back, so hopefully somebody can answer that today. Um, so
acreage and how many units total are possible for those two. Um, I also wanted to express my disapproval of any type of apartments going just north of the middle school where the Anora location is. I understand that a
prominent affordable housing builder is looking to redevelop that site, take those two buildings down and, you know, have a multilevel apartment structure. I don't think that intersection, the area by the middle school can handle that type of traffic.
Excuse me. Um, I think it's imperative in all that you discuss that everybody knows the potential of units. You all say right now, English Manor, you know, it might not ever, you know, become units down the road. They just redid it. Gorgeous. Okay, that's great. But what
if they decide to sell it? I think we all need to know. Are we looking at 20 houses, 67 apartments, 127 apartments? Um, I think there were not being as transparent as we should be with um
taxpayers and residents. And speaking of residents that I think are absent from today, um there is also an affordable housing um part of one of the ordinances today that states current apartment
complex owners can rehab units and then raise the rental fees. So if you're looking at Twinbrook, Middlebrook, Continental Gardens, want to massive gardens, I don't see any of, you know, folks represented by um renters.
And I don't think this entire concept that their rates and rental fees might go up if their complex owners decide to like renovate. Um so I think that is missing from the public discourse. Some of these are questions, some of
these are statements. Um uh two other questions. Um the town has a number of pilots payment in lie of taxes. For one thing, those pilot revenues do not affect the school district. And I
have a huge problem with that because money for pilots should go to that. So, I'm wondering, are we working on any new pilots in the next two years? Um, and then how does the current budget proposed today take into effect current
pilots? And also, um, the mayor has discussed in previous meetings like a combo, um, plan with the school board for the Cindy Lane property, although like is shrouded in mystery. So, I'm wondering if there is
any further developments on what kind of Cindy Lane area combo plan with the schoolboard can be released today and if that in fact is in any of the budget stuff. Thanks. >> Thank you. Uh Mary Beth,
>> um here we go. So, I'm going to address uh I'm going to focus on the questions related to this ordinance and I'll let the mayor or anyone else or um address
>> just just just the ordinance, Mary Beth. That's all. Thank you. So the um the specific question for gross acreage of the Herbert Avenue site uh the gross acreage is 5.66
acres. Um the highest density that could be um if that's multifamily flats that's 15 to the acres. So that could generate approximately 84 total housing units. the uh uh English Manor site again 1.03
acres that could generate uh approximately 15 total housing units. Both would have a 20% affordable housing set aside. Uh you had asked a question about the
rental. Well, actually that's that was the the ordinance that was just adopted. um had to do with the rental rehab. Uh I don't think you really asked any other specific questions of the of either of
these two sites. >> Thank Thank you, Mary Beth. Anyone else wishing to be heard? >> Jesse, you >> y >> I don't see anybody else's hand. I you still you you're making the
English manner place. I want it not oh hold on a second court and you still for one acre you're sitting here saying you're going to have 15 family homes sitting in my backyard on wetlands. That's what you're saying.
And that there's no no way to stop this at this point because you've decided for the entire community here that we have to have this in our backyard. >> Again, is that what you're saying? >> You can say that all you want. Once you
pass this variance, it is go there is a possibility. I don't want that possibility for my my neighbors who have small children who have we are on a little culde-sac. I have an 80-year-old man and I can't get to my house some
days and you want to put 15 more people here families here. That's what you want to do. >> Mary Beth, can you respond please? I I I would say um
our our environmental constraints mapping. We don't show any wetlands on this this site. >> It's outside my window. There is a creek outside my window. It is wetlands. It is marshlands. I know it. >> It
>> I understand that you don't see it. I don't know where you live. I live here. >> It is wetlands. >> Understood. Thank Thank you. And the again the the D requirements that are implemented by the township's planning
board would require um a full analysis of wetland. >> You're going to wait and a developer and then you're going to say oh well we I'm sorry because we didn't do due diligence before I answer. It's it's common to have
>> I'm asking the question did not do your due diligence. You did not do your due diligence and now you want to sit here and say, "Oh, we're going to pass this and allow 15 more units and have flooding and then wonder why people are going to h have problems."
>> I will just simply say we did the analysis of the environmental constraints and any developer would have to address those re those environmental constraints as part of site plan approval. >> May you're just going to whitewash it.
Okay. Wendy, your affordable housing attorney. May I just add something to what Mary Beth just said there? Sure. There's been a lot of questions of of folks who feel that uh perhaps they haven't been given an exact unit count on some of these overlays and these types of issues that you're raising
ma'am with potential wetlands or if there is anything that is found to be an environmental conraint or some other constraint if and when at the time that somebody comes in with a site plan. Those those are the reasons why we can't
give you an exact number of the number of units because if there are constraints then obviously the building envelope gets smaller but those constraints would need to be looked at and the proper and appropriate time for that is at this at the planning board
with a site plan application when the township is tasked with having to do these overlays to meet these numbers that are are provided through the affordable housing um calculations, you know, from the state all the way down to
the local level. The state does not provide the opportunity, nor does the statutes give us the opportunity to say that that level of due diligence has to happen first. In fact, in this round four
process, everything has been brought down to a even shorter time frame than any other point in history during the Mount Laurel doctrine because everything had to be started on January 1 of 2025
and ended by March 15th, which is actually March 16th because it lands on a Sunday of 2026. So, I understand your frustration. I feel your frustration. I feel for each one of my clients that I represent as an affordable housing attorney because the onus that has been
put on every governing body member and on each municipality to get through this process in order to protect the town from an even larger potential um onlay of units based on a builder's remedy litigation if you don't go through the
process is really tough and I believe every member of the governing body shares your frustration ma'am but this is the game that we were forced to play in. >> Thank you. Anyone else wishing to be heard?
>> Jesse, uh, monitor the hand raises, please. >> I don't. >> There we go. >> I see Kyle. Kyle Trumale. Go ahead, Kyle. You're You're not muted. Go ahead. I can't hear you, Kyle.
You got You want to check your uh settings on the Zoom? >> I don't I don't even see him. >> He's up. I see him up on top. Kyle's Kyle Trudale, right? You can hear me. >> I can see your hand, but I I can't hear
you. >> Maybe you can unmute. >> I I don't have I I I don't have him muted. Oh, >> no. He's muted. Okay, let's Okay, let's see if we can >> Now he's muted. Kyle, you're muted. Unmute.
Wait a I think you might have a setting on your computer possibly. He can maybe he can ask us to unute it. >> Kyle, can we come back to you if you can look for a setting on your uh or use the phone number to call in? It says ask to
unmute. Let's >> I I I'm not the administrator. >> No, I have no idea. Where's Tom? >> Okay. >> I don't I don't think he's muted though. >> He's not muted because I He doesn't
>> I'll put from the website I'll put from the website the full Zoom link including the phone numbers. So, okay. Anyone else before we, you know, until we get to Kyle? >> There's there's something on Kyle's computer. Tom just called. Our IT guy. >> Yep.
>> Yeah. Can you hold up a >> Can you Can you call? Do you That's what Peter was saying. Does he have the number to call? >> Um, I'm just looking for the comment. Let me see. >> Can you hear me now?
>> Oh, yeah. There you go, Kyle. >> You hear me? >> Yes, sir. >> This is the owner of the English Matter. >> Hi, everybody. Um, >> how you doing, Kyle? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Good. >> So, I just have a couple questions about what it means for English matters
future. Um, so we're at C3 commercial use right now and then we're going to have this affordable housing use. Does that be an additional use for us? So it'll be like a dual use in the future if we do want to develop the property. Um, will there be any limitations to us that would be have to develop it with
affordable housing or if we want to do something like commercial use? Um, that would be fine. Or if we did want to put up residential um like individual houses in the future, would this would this have any limitations that would hold us back from doing so? just the fact that we now have an overlay use for the
affordable housing. >> Anything else, Kyle? >> Um, no, that's it. >> Thanks, man. Uh, Mary Beth. >> Yep. So, the, um, to be clear, your C3 underlying zoning remains in place. Um,
so you don't have to develop this residentially. You can still have full access to the underlying C3 zone. Um the overlay is an additional option for development.
The uh overlay zoning would not permit well sorry let me C3 zoning does not permit residential. The overlay zone would not permit single family detached residential. It permits single family attached
residential and multifamily residential. >> I think that answered your questions. >> Don't do it, Kyle. Don't do it. >> We're not put on nothing. >> Um, yes, it does. Thank you. I appreciate it. >> Thanks, Kyle. Anyone else wishing to be
heard? Can I just ask the one question that I asked before >> you at uh >> uh about the 300 p.m. Uh uh meeting, why was it called? >> Yeah, we had to get we this meeting was
originally going to be cancelled, but as you was explained by our attorney, we had to have this meeting before Sunday. This was the only day and time that we could do it. I see there are a lot of other people though just to that should be
represented at these you know that live in this area that feel strongly about these kinds of things that should be represented >> duly noted. >> Yes. >> Seeing no more comments. Do I have a motion to close public comment on the ordinance?
>> Like to make a motion to close the public hearing to ordinance 2538. 2583 >> 2538 >> 2530 sorry >> second >> second >> roll call a >> is he still mute
>> he is muted yes >> okay thank you Kaplan >> yes >> Telerico >> yes >> and Nepalani >> yes um open up for public comment that.
>> No, no, no. A motion to public. >> Oh, yeah. Motion. Uh, do I have action on ordinance 2538? >> I'd like to move to adopt ordinance 2538 and publish according to law. >> Second. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Aera,
>> no. >> Fisher, >> yes. >> Kaplan, >> yes. >> Telerico, >> no. And Nepali, >> yes. Um, additional comments, public comments
in regard to Ocean Township. Anything Germaine to the Township of Ocean? Please state your name and address for the record. >> Is this the one on the fees and the apartment rehabs? I don't go by numbers because I don't have that in front of me.
>> The fee. Uh well, we had public comment on that before, but you have uh questions on >> what is the topic of this ordinance since >> or >> calling from a office? >> It's general comments right now.
>> Oh, general comments. Can you guys answer any of my questions? I didn't realize that I was in the ordinance public comments, so I apologize earlier. >> Okay. You want to go take get them all? Add again. >> Um I'll go really quickly. um how have
you engaged the apartment um residents? It's my understanding that for, you know, the Herbert and the um English Manor that maybe some people got some letters about what's happening today. But I'm curious how residents, the
thousands of residents of our various apartments in town have been made aware that um you know, their rents could go up and there could be some rehabbing of their So that's one. Um and then I had a question about the budget. Um are you
working on additional pilots and what are the pilot slash pilot financial implications of the budget now? Um and then um can you shed any more light on the combo deal or whatever it is
that's kind of been worked on and hush hush for so long for many months about are you guys working with the board of ed on some kind of shared service place or mayor you mentioned it once and I believe you said it was a Cindy Lane
property so I think that's it. Um that's it. >> Okay. Uh first question with the apartments and engaging them. Dave Brown, if we can get a connection with those individual apartments, I know we
have half of Continental contact. Uh the other half we have to locate. We have a Middlebrook contact. We need a West Park Manor contact and we need a one and Massa Gardens contact. Uh, >> not for the not for the owners, for the residents. Like,
>> well, we need a contact so we can get to the residents. So, if >> we just send a blanket um uh letter to all residents, we know what apartment members and everybody. >> We Dave, we can work on that, right? >> Yes, Mayor. We'll take care of that.
>> Thank you. As for the pilots, that would be a Ricky Gart's question. So, I would suggest that you contact um the office tomorrow when Ricky's in. Um pilot revenue, I believe anticipated
is $136,000 as per our CFO. Um but if you'd like further clarification, I would contact him. And a combo deal with the board of ed, we would love to do something in conjunction with the board of ed. Unfortunately, we do not have any
approvals on Cindy Lane currently right now due to the fact that uh we're trying to get it delineated by the D right now. >> D. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um but so my followup would be so we're discussing the annual budget and
the town CFO is not present. >> We are not discussing the budget. The budget will be discussed at the next meeting. This was the introduction of the budget. >> April 9th. April 9th meeting. April 9th meeting. >> So he doesn't feel it's need necessary to come for the introduction to >> when there's there really is no
budgetary questions until the budget's actually going to be adopted on April 9th. >> Okay. >> Yep. Anyone else wishing to be heard, please state your name and address for the record.
>> All right. Dan Koko, 29 Dorsa Road. Yeah. Um I don't see Councilwoman Grace Anne on the call still, but I would just like to acknowledge my appreciation. >> She's still here. >> Oh, okay. She's still on. Well, um,
thank you for being the only council member to, uh, not just blindly pass these motions through and, um, seeming to consider all logical concern and, uh, use your brain to understand what's
being raised during these meetings. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Dan. With all due respect, just so you know, Councilman Asa also voted no on that. >> Um, and we are not operating blindly. We have several professionals that guide
us, including engineers, attorneys, and affordable housing professionals. So, nobody's doing anything blindly. Thank you. >> I believe it was stated during this initial >> No, I believe it was stated that you don't consult the professionals yet. >> This is just first step and then later
this this ordinance was consulted with the professionals. That's why it's on the agenda tonight. >> Do you have the names of those professionals? I just said you were just answering. One of them was Mary Beth Lan. She's on here.
>> Okay. >> Anyone else? Any other questions? State your name and address for the record. >> Since this is a videotaped proceeding, will this be linked publicly? >> Jesse? Yes. Yes. All right. Seeing no
other questions, do I have a motion to close the meeting? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I mean meeting journs. >> Opposed. >> Thank you very much. Have a great
evening.