All right. Good evening everyone. Um I'd like to call the meeting of July 14th to order. Um let's stand up and invocation will be led by member Kelly and followed by um presitions by me. I'm sorry.
>> Heavenly Father, we ask a blessing on our commission meeting tonight. Please give us the wisdom to make good decisions for our community. We ask a blessing on uh the Grogan family, the passing of our former mayor and
commissioner, John Grogan. We uh ask a blessing for all our first responders, Lord, wherever they are. Keep them safe for us as they go about the job of protecting us. And finally, for our military, Lord, wherever they are in the world, keep them safe and bring them home to us. We ask all of this in your
name. Amen. >> Amen. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
>> Roll call, please. >> Vice Chair Forges >> here. >> Member Keller >> here. >> Member Shakon >> here. >> Member Galvin >> here. >> Member Butler >> here. >> Member Fernandez >> here. >> You have a quorum. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Next time on next item on the agenda is the
annual election. This is where we'll be elected. We'll be electing our chair >> and vice chair. >> Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion that we uh nominate Lou Forges as our uh chair going forward.
>> I would like to second that. >> All right. Motion made by Mr. Keller and second by Mr. Galvin. All in favor, let's vote. Thank you for that. Um and um I'd like Can I make a motion? >> Sure. >> I'd like to make a motion to um and
recommend Mr. Shakon as vice chair. >> I second that. >> Okay. I'm sorry. All in favor? >> Motion carries. Perfect. Thank you for that. >> All right. Uh, next item on the next next item on the agenda is um I'd like
to get a motion for the meeting minutes for the last uh for the June 9th. >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> Okay. >> All right. Second that motion. >> All right. Any discussion? All right. Let's vote. Motion to approve. Perfect. And um
like we have no business. No new business. So Mr. Adam will be discussing the impervious and open space workshop by developer Mr. Lip. Okay, good evening. Um, so last meeting what I brought to you, we had a workshop talking about imperous surface and open
space. Um, and this was kind of due to a situation that we're dealing with with code enforcement. Um, a lot of our uh established uh sub single family subdivisions had an approved impervious surface of 50%. But a lot of the uh activity that's been going on over the
past couple years is after COVID and people spending more time outside, they've been wanting to improve their backyard areas and it's actually come to exceeding that 50% and causing some code issues within uh not only our code but code violations uh where we wanted to look at it what other people were doing
in the area and I brought it back to you all as a couple options to see you know here's what we have. Um, so I've gone back and done a little research actually based on some recommendations that you made to me during that meeting. So I'm going to come to you tonight with kind of this draft policy that we're going to
look to do as an interim as we're updating our land development code. So uh what is impervious surface and what is the coverage? So the imperous surface is actually the percentage of the lot area that's covered up by imperous material. So concrete,
pavement, the house actually is considered uh impervious surface. Um solid decks, the swimming pool, uh patios or tents. Um so that's all compared that's considered as impervious where water cannot percolate through uh
to the ground. Uh lot coverage means the actual lot coverage uh of the um overall square footage. So, if you have a a 10,000 square foot lot, a 50% lot coverage would mean you would be covering it with the house by 5,000
square feet. If you look at our uh minimum zoning descriptions and our permitted uses, a lot of our single family um residential impervious surface is around 50%. And a lot of our PUDs that were adopted or planned unit developments uh were
adopted around 50%. Um previously kind of in the early 90s or even in the I mean uh late 2000s. Um but rate lately we've been looking at impervious surface uh in recommendations around the 70%. Up to 75%.
Um and with the lot coverage of 40% and you have an impervious surface of 50% you only get 10% of that extra space of your yard to actually do something in. So, we were finding that it was a little bit of a disconnect um from not only what we're kind of encouraging people to be more outside and enjoy their yards,
it just really didn't leave a lot of space. And in fact, even if you tried to put a pool in, a lot of times that exceeded the 50% of impervious surface with a swimming pool. So, here's one of the examples um within I'm not telling you where it is within
our community, but here's a house uh in our single family subdivision that meets the 50% impervious surface. This one does not meet the 50% impervious surface. The funny part about it is they're neighbors. So, as the
neighbor that actually meets it right now comes in and says, "Well, I would like a swimming pool like my neighbor has." According to our code, we would have to deny that and say, "No, you can't do it." Well, why did my neighbor get it? Well, now we have a code violation issue where they still have plenty of green space, especially in the
front yard, and it's still kind of meeting the intent. So, this was really an old policy that was kind of put forth that we're still trying to uphold, but it really doesn't make sense nowadays. Um, especially where our other communities and our partners have an impervious surface of at 75%. And that's
actually Orange County currently is at 75% for their single family subdivisions. So, in the June workshop, I asked a couple questions if we wanted to increase it to maybe 70 or 75% uh to comply with kind of existing single
family developments that we have going on. Um, putting in here 75% is kind of recommended to be consistent with a lot of the planned unit developments that we've approved in the past or recently. Um, I was asked what about 65%. What would that get us? Well, several of our
single family subdivisions would still not meet code and we would have some difficulties with some existing violations that we're actually just kind of looking to clean up as these people have developed kind of a paved backyard or put in a extra pool and a little bit more pavers to have them now come in and
tear them all out because it's not meeting code doesn't really seem right. Um, as we're looking at what other people are doing and what could be allowed just by going off of an old code that we haven't updated in several years and we're in the process of updating, it's something that we would like to
kind of consider to relax as a policy right now as we explore in a little bit more detail and make it right to what we're actually seeing in effect currently in the area. Uh, the third question was, do we remove impervious surface and just really talk about lot coverage in open space? I [snorts] think
we can explore this in more detail as we're looking in that new draft to the land development code of how do we really want to categorize this. Um, and then the last one which I got a little bit of attention on, Winter Park actually only requires a a front yard
setback or policy to only have 50% impervious surface of the front yard, not really caring what goes on in the backyard. So 50% impervious maximum of their front yard. So looking at all these and then looking at uh kind of what we have going on in our development
uh kind of came up with a recommendation and based on the conversations that we had last week of for an impervious surface policy recommendation as an interim while we're updating our land development code um for single family planned unit development subdivisions that are already approved. We would look
to have a uh allow up to 75% impervious surface of total lot area with a maximum of 50% of impervious surface in the front yard while still maintaining all land development code setbacks, utility and drainage easements would be the policy that we're going to look to
employ um over this interim basis. So that's what I'm recommending to the planning and zoning uh commission and I would like to have a little bit more discussion and ask any questions before >> yeah I have a question. So by keeping the um drainage easements
would that satisfy the uh the original intent but I guess with where water will be drained properly and all that. So >> yes, a lot of these when I was starting to look at the plan unit developments and some of these subdivisions, they do have that little bit of rise up in the house and a little bit of swell on each
side for those drainage easements. We've always asked for anybody that's putting in a patio or anything to maintain those drainage easements. And it also helps keep that water from rushing out into your neighbor's yard. So within this policy as we're looking at it and as our planners are reviewing it and code enforcement and enforcing it, making
sure that you maintain that 2 to 4 feet depending on what that easement is for those drainage, making sure that that stays pvious and it can retain water. Um but still allowing um you to fill up more most of your backyard up to, you know, up to 75% of your total lot area.
And with the restriction on the front yard, we won't have to worry about a huge driveway in the front yard. you could almost really use most of your backyard up except for these drainage easements and setbacks because we still do require a two-foot setback so you're not going right up against your property
line um for and still meeting that 75% impervious surface while utilizing really a lot of the front for that grass area or landscaping. Uh we still do have a tree ordinance and tree requirements. So, we're not going to let you take down all your trees and completely pave over
your backyard, but if you do have a sufficient amount of area to put in a pool or a paved backyard or even a pergula, uh we would like to allow that as as a policy right now. >> What would if you don't mind going back to the screens, what was the setback in
the front of the property? >> Oh, 25 or >> so, uh maximum. So the uh front yard set back 25 ft. >> Okay. So I was I was just kind of doing like some numbers and just hear Matt if you don't mind. So kind of justify the
50%. >> Um let's say that the the lot is 50 because there's some lots now that are 50. And if the setback is 25, that's going to put us at 1250 square ft, right? >> 50% of that would be what? 675. >> 675. So now if we have the driveway that
goes from the road to the front of the house is going to be 25 ft. If a double car garage the w the width of that is 20 ft of the actual um driveway 20 x 25 is going to
put you at 500. >> And then we have those sidewalks to get to the house. Yep. >> You're going to they're going to be cutting it really close, >> but some driveways have like the roundabouts, >> correct? >> So, those wouldn't meet the 50% in the
front. >> So, they they might have to be some either some variances, but um when you put the 500 just on the driveway, not on the sidewalks to the 625, you're probably going to be like in the 45ish%. >> So, it's going to be a little bit tight. Well, I I do get your point and and I
like it and I agree cuz I mean the back is where you want to enjoy it, >> but um it might be cutting it close at 50% in the front. >> Yeah, because that's the minimum. So, I mean hopefully they are a little bit farther back depending on I mean how you positioned your house and and where. Um
but you're correct. You're going to be very close to that with you have your driveway and your walkway up at 25 ft. But that's still >> it seems to be a nice middle ground. So you have >> your backyard you can develop further
>> and your front yard you're maintaining at only 50% of Yeah. >> trying not to have your driveway too wide. So you don't want to have as a two-car garage. You don't want to have three cars stacked up on the side. >> And also the good thing on that is that the front of the house is not always a straight line. It's always
>> it's 25 to the most. So some of it goes back. So you have you have the additional square footage I can count instead of the 1250 I was just assuming if it was a straight line but you'll probably get like the 1350400 square feet. So you'll go between 40 to 45% which you still
>> and then you kind of have the sideyard. So we would not consider anything really on the sideyard. So you have that existing uh kind of impervious on the side up until halfway back as you started reaching kind of that backyard. Yep. >> I like >> Okay. I I think I have the same
sentiment with with the 50 50% front yard. I'm thinking forcing people to only have two car garages in most cases. You know, you're trying to get cars off the street so that way public services and can do their job. And basically, I think now we're forcing them to minimize,
>> but you will have an issue once you get the threecar garage houses >> and at that point you have still have a lot bigger lot size. So, you are going to be wider. So, you probably still can meet that 50%. What we're looking to not to do is have, you know, most of these are designed for a twocar household. You
got to be able to park those two cars, hopefully one in the garage, but not start having four cars in your front yard or having the whole front space paved over. >> Um, you know, because that's just going to change kind of the aesthetic look of what this planned unit development and what the subdivision was really intended
to be. Uh, and again, a lot of this is in our already approved planned unit developments where we're not getting a lot of the requests to expand their driveways. It's a lot to go in the backyard, but it was something to really help preserve that because we have seen a couple that we
>> have had to go out and code that have decided that they wanted more driveway space, so they just >> put pavers up in the whole front yard, which a lot of the neighbors don't like. You don't have the curb cut there. You don't have it wasn't designed for that. Um, so just to go out and put papavers, this would actually kind of make
something where code would be able to look at it and say, "Well, that looks like more than 50%. Let's check that impervious surface." >> Okay, >> I like the idea. >> So, Mr. Chair, um, I guess my question is for our older subdivisions. Is this going to cause any problems for
the retention ponds? because I'm looking at I'm I'm looking at we still have to have this drainage and obviously we're if as we make more of the area impervious that water's got to go somewhere and the older um subdivisions
were created with this rule in mind that there wasn't going to be any more than 50%. And so when they did all their draining planning um and for their runoffs into um the retention ponds and things like that, everything was considered on a 50%
max. So now that we move it up, what does that do to the retention pond? >> Yeah. So we started looking at our subdivisions and the plan unit developments. Um so a lot of them do have their master storm water system that was planned for their hundred-year events and more extreme events. So,
we're not anticipating anything on these kind of, you know, daily rainstorms that we get here in Florida. Now, they weren't they were all planned on this hundred-year storm event at 50%. Um, have to probably check a little bit more with engineering as we make this into
put this into the land development code as to, you know, what should we do permanently with this? Is it something that we need to look at each one of these subdivisions? But what we're looking to do is just kind of relax um really the the codes that have been violating already um and that's already
out there and we haven't seen any real drainage or you know flooding problems to date. Um but it's something that we can look at as we make this more of a permanent uh solution. >> Okay. >> All right. Any more comments on this?
>> Cool. All right. This is not something we This is just FYI, correct? >> Yes. So this is just a policy that we're looking to bring forward. Uh wanted to get your comments before we bring it up to the commission um and look to uh put it in place as a temporary policy. >> Yeah. One more thing and we did also
discuss about kinds of materials. >> Is that going to be considered now or just trying to add too many things? So, we did just have a new policy that came out, an ordinance because the Florida Department of Environmental Protection had um a ruling on artificial turf and
what's pvious and what's impervious. So, as we're looking at this, we do have to consider there are now new brick pavers and other pavers type of materials that are considered pvious. So, when we start looking at these permits and looking at when people come in to do their expansions, we have to consider what
material it is and is it considered pvious or impervious. the more pvious really just helps out and you still get your same outdoor look and outdoor feel. Uh just a lot of the old stuff that's in there right now is impervious. Uh especially when you're talking about artificial turf and the pavers. But um
the more pvious you have, the better it actually is for your yard. And overall, we're just trying to look to uh said rightsize things to make it a little bit easier for a lot of our residents that have already uh utilized their backyards and put some pools in that don't meet that 50%. Even though the pool was
approved and it's been there since the early 2000s, it's something that we're not looking to, you know, go in and code violate and force somebody to remove. >> Cool. It also could be something where we look at I know Orange County is considered that the pool itself even
though it it is impervious but as it collects water it then just starts draining. So not calculating that under the imperous uh surface calculation. So uh again this is a lot of stuff that we're still exploring in more detail as we do the land development code. We just didn't want to wait
>> uh for months from now as we're starting to pull it all together uh when we're starting to notice that we're having some some codes right now. I think I like where we're going with this. This is growth. >> Cool. All right. Okay. Hi. Let's move on to item two of
the mission agenda. We have a sunshine training by our Mr. Gar. Now I see everyone. All right, most of you have seen a lot of these slides. I did add some some new slides,
so there'll be something new for everyone, but I I think there at least a couple of you who I haven't presented uh this to before. Um, correct me if I'm wrong. >> Have I presented to both of you? >> Yeah, I have. >> Okay, you have. Okay. All right. that I
think everyone else has probably seen some form of this presentation before, but it's really useful information to to remind ourselves of. I'm going to cover the Sunshine Act, the the public records law. I'm going to also cover uh some
provisions of Florida's code of ethics, especially uh conflicts of interest. I thought that would be of some interest to you all. the sources of this Florida sunshine law. It's the Florida Constitution. It's in the Florida statutes and it means that everything
that we do as a collegial body has to be out in the open. It must be open to the public. So, it's all about doing everything with with total transparency. This is the provision in the Florida Constitution, Article 1, Section 24. All
meetings of any collegial body, that's that's you. The planning and zoning board is a collegial body under the Florida statutes at which official acts are to be taken. No official acts tonight, but I know you do on on most other occasions. Or which public
business of such body is to be transacted or discussed, which you did tonight, shall be open and noticed to the public, which Miranda made sure that this was uh noticed to the public. The the clerk's office takes care of that. Uh this is the definition of a collegial
body. It's a governmental entity marked with power or authority vested equally in each of a number of colleagues and that is what we have here with the planning and zoning board. So what is a public meeting under the Florida sunshine law? It's when two or more
members discuss or take action regarding official business or policy. So, if two of you, excuse me, if two of you were to get together outside of this meeting and talk about anything that conceivably Thank you, could come before this board,
you would be in violation of the Sunshine Act unless that meeting was noticed and open to the public. There is an exception for for committees whose sole function is factf finding and
they have no decision-making authority whatsoever. That's not you. Uh the public meeting requirements are found in Florida statutes 286.011 and you can Google any of these Florida statutes. Uh there's there's no mystery
anymore to uh to what's in our statutes. It says that our meetings must be open to the public. There must be reasonable notice to the public and minutes must be taken and and Miranda is is making sure that we're in compliance. So again, these are the three items that you must
take care of to be in compliance. There is a uh this has come up um more than once where you have um uh two members of of say a recommending body such as this uh uh this planning and zoning board. You know, can you attend a
a city commission meeting to express a your opinion on a matter uh coming before the city commission? Can you do that? And and two of you are there. Two of you are there. The answer is yes, you can. You can. Um, and we have a an
opinion by Bob Butterworth, former attorney general of the state of Florida. He says that commissioners in attendance at such meetings may not engage in a discussion or debate about these issues among themselves. So, so long as you're not talking among yourselves, you can address the city
commission about city business. All right? uh the sunshine law uh applies when you're when you discuss with any anyone else on this who's sitting up here with you uh or when a matter may conceivably come before this board for a vote or
discussion. Uh consequences uh they make it real easy. Uh it could be a a noncriminal infraction punishable by a fine not exceeding $500. And this is just a a violation that's
not even knowing. You don't even knew you didn't even know that you you violated it. So, for example, let's say a new um PNZ member is appointed to the board and you talk to that new member. You have no idea that that person has been appointed to this board and you
violated the Sunshine Act. You could be um found uh liable as as having committed a non-coriminal infraction, liable for $500. Uh, now that's section 3A. Then you go down to section 3B. Then then you get to the knowing violation of of of the
provisions and then it becomes a misdemeanor of the second degree. And that's where the penalty goes up. Uh, 60 days imprisonment and or the $500 fine for each violation. So each time you get together and and and talk about business when you're not supposed to, uh you can
get uh you can get um um found uh to have committed a misdemeanor. And I I always tell people, please please please on my watch, just don't do this. Please don't do this. Um you don't want to end up as a face in one of my PowerPoint
presentations. You [clears throat] just don't like these two guys. And I'll tell you about these these two these two Sumpter County commissioners. They were removed from office for perjury. And I'll tell you about the underlying um facts here. They were um arrested,
charged with perjury, then they were removed from office by the governor. All right. So here here's a Tampa Bay Times telling you what these guys did. Um [clears throat] so the uh the fifth circuit state attorney's office they received three complaints that Miller and search those were their names
commissioners Miller commissioner search were communicating through Miller's wife. You no one can be a conduit like like you know Lou Lou um Lou cannot say something to me and I report to to Joel and then Joel reports back to me and I
go back to Lou. That would be a Sunshine Act violation. We're not going to do that. All right. But apparently Miller's wife was was a conduit. So phone records show that Miller and Search contacted each other directly over 40 times between November 2020 when they were
both elected and July 2021. According to prosecutors, Miller told investigators the call stopped in January or February after they realized the communication might be an issue. You think? and Serge told investigators he had no contact
with Miller outside of public meetings. According to court documents, the phone records show that nearly half of the calls between the men were made after January 2021. Arrest affidavit didn't say what they were discussing, but many of the calls were made just before or
just after scheduled county commission meetings, according to prosecutors. So, very suspicious circumstances there. And then they they lied about it and then the governor said enough. Bye-bye. Public records act. Let's let's talk
about that. Uh this again is a um power that is given to the people of the state of Florida uh under the Florida Constitution article 1 section 24A and also it's codified chapter 119 Florida statutes. And it says every person, so
it is literally every person um has the right to inspect or copy any public record made or received in connection with the official business of any public body. That's you. Uh except records exempted. Uh the section specifically includes municipalities and each board
created pursuant to law. And this board was in fact created by an ordinance of the city of Akoi. So that's you are under the under the public records law and this is going to come into play when someone makes a request for your your
emails relating to whatever the issue is that came before this board and and and we could we can get into that but uh [clears throat] so this was uh um let's move on here. What's a public record? Uh it doesn't matter if it's sitting in in
cyberspace on your iCloud. Uh it doesn't matter if if you've saved it to a a thumb drive. It doesn't matter if it's a scrap of paper. It the form does not matter for it to be a public record. So
it means all m all material regardless of physical form. Um, I take that to mean it may mean that it doesn't have physical form or means of transmission made or receive pursuant to law in connection with the transaction of official business of of any agency and
an agency isn't defined to to mean municipalities and and and and its boards. All right. As I said, the form is irrelevant. It could be up in the cloud. I put picture of clouds here to drive the point home. >> [snorts]
>> The Florida Supreme Court in this case called Chevvin Chevon v. Byron defined what a public record is gave a little more meat to the bones so to speak. So it says that public records under chapter 119 Florida statutes are any
material prepared in connection with official agency business which is intended to perpetuate, communicate or formalize knowledge. So those are the the the three uh criterion um perpetuate, communicate or formalize
knowledge. We we had a uh we have an interesting case um right now ongoing uh in in in here in the with the city of AOE where um someone asked for metadata. All right. And we took the position uh
in court that metadata is created automatically by the computer and not by a person. And so it's not prepared by a person and it is not intended to communicate anything. It's just the computer talking to itself uh saying you
know you know how it saves different different files and that sort of thing. There's really no communication outside the computer itself. Um it's not formalizing any knowledge. it's not perpetuating anything that that is intend that you need to have intent to do one of these three things and there's
no person with intent to do any of these things with respect to metadata. So that's that's something that may that that may um uh be a matter of of law uh coming up. Uh there may be some court cases coming down the down the pike on
that. Uh notes for personal use are not a public record. I put that in a big headline for you all. So, you all are free to take whatever notes you want at this meeting. I take notes on on my my um my pad here. Uh they're mine. I'm not
sharing this with anyone. Now, the second that I I take my my pad and I give it to Miranda, now it's now it's a public record. Okay? But I'm not going to do that. I'm going to keep it to myself. So, no one no [clears throat] one gets to see it. including if someone uh makes a public records request for
those notes, I'm not giving them uh away. [clears throat] And this has been uh held upheld by by the courts. It's been upheld by the by the attorney in attorney general opinions. It's very clear. Notes to yourselves uh designed for your own
personal use and remembering certain things are not a public record. All right. uh notes relating to personal matters made by a public official. So this is uh this Butler case uh versus city of Howlandale said an email was
sent by a mayor from her personal computer using her personal campaign account with blind copies to friends and campaign supporters but not made in connection with official business of the city was not a public record. So, uh, campaigns are completely different, uh,
from from the official business of of the city. All right. Transitory records. Uh, this is this is one of those things where it's it's it's a public record for some time, but then it's not. All right. So, if someone um if the city invites
you to attend a uh appreciation lunchon or or or or um some other event expressing their their thanks to all of you for serving the city uh and you get that email or you get it by text message, that's temporarily a public
record. All right? Until the event's over, then it has no administrative value whatsoever and uh then it's no longer a public record. So, so the rule is this in the Florida Administrative Code. Transitory records are public records and must be retained until
obsolete, superseded, or the administrative value is lost. So, if you get an invitation like that, just just keep it. Don't don't delete it. Don't delete it. Just just out of an abundance of caution, just just don't delete anything. I mean, storage now is so
cheap, you know, on on all of our phones and and there's all the, you know, the iClouds and the Google clouds and and everything else. Um, just just keep stuff. So, anyway, here are some here's a four blurbs about what is included in
the term transitory records, uh, reminders about scheduled meetings, appointments, most telephone messages, get you get a voicemail, uh, you know, you know, please call me back. Uh just save that until you actually you know do
the call back. Um announcements, the holiday party, the group lunch, lectures, workshops, and um this wouldn't necessarily apply to you, but just so you know, news releases received by the agency strictly forformational purposes and unrelated to agency
programs or activities. Somehow that got thrown in with with this uh transitory records um definition. Okay. So the as I said normally this will affect you if someone makes a public records request asking for all your communications on a
matter. So they want to know you know you know Joe the developer um wanted to discuss with you about the proposed new whatever development it would be. And um I mean I don't know what what you all do
when I served on the Orange County Planning and Zoning Board many many years ago. I would meet with developers because I wanted to know as much as I possibly could about uh a whatever the item was before it would come before me. Now, when I would make a decision, I
would I I would never rely on anything outside of what came before me in the public meeting, but I but I would do those meetings and there were occasionally public records just setting up the meeting. That's or the developer might send me an email trying to
persuade me. And also on the other foot, I would get tons of emails from uh uh the inhabitants of the such and such rural um rural um the the the rural settlement or whatever neighborhood is impacted by a development. I would just
my my inbox would just blow up with all this stuff. >> All those, you know, would be public records and um I need I would need to make them available on request and I did on a number of occasions. So anyway, let's let's go to the duty of inspection
and copying uh Florida statutes 119071A. Every person uh who has custody of a public record, that would be all of you on those types of items, shall permit the record to be inspected and copied by any person desiring to do so at any reasonable time under reasonable
conditions under supervision by the custodian of public records. That would be Miranda and and her office. All right, the clerk's office. They are the custodians of the public records. So, typically when a record request comes in, uh it would be routed through the clerk's office. It's all set up on on
the computer system very nicely and then her office would reach out to you. You know, we've been ask for such and such records. Would you please um uh provide us with these records or um they can have the IT department assist you if
need be? Uh a custodian must respond to such requests in good faith. Okay. So the good faith is the is the standard by by which a court would look at this. Are all public records open to the public? Nope. Some public records are
confidential and exempt. uh there's a there there are confidential records say if if the city is talking uh with some someone who wants to make a major economic investment into the city uh there are provisions in in in the Florida statutes
for keeping that confidential for at least temporarily. Uh what's an example what's another example of an exempt public record? a public record prepared by an agency attorney. So that reflects a mental impression, conclusion, litigation strategy or legal theory for civil or
criminal litigation or for adversarial administrative proceedings or prepared anticipation of such proceedings. Um so that protects a lot of what I do when I'm representing the city in a lawsuit at least while the lawsuit is pending.
Once the lawsuit is no longer pending, then then uh it loses that protection and is uh and it can be um uh producible uh discoverable. Uh same with an active criminal investigation. So until the
investigation concludes um all that any any documents relating to that criminal investigation are not discoverable by anyone making the public records request. Once the investigation is over then it's fair game, right? question. What about if only a small
piece of a public record is exempt? You can redact the confidential information. So, you know, this is this is medical information. So, a lot of it gets gets redacted. All right? And and also, you know, we're not going to release social security numbers, bank account numbers, uh
anything like that. Anything that is that has protection in Chapter 119, we're not going to let it go. Right. Uh confidential records. I think I've I've um uh covered some here's here's an example of a confidential record. Um you
know, EMS calls, any kind of medical related documents, whistleblowers, uh some whistleblower, you know, says, you know, so and so here in in in in in my um in my local government is doing
something wrong. And then that that prompts an investigation. So anything um uh relating to the investigation has some temporary um protection from disclosure and the identity of the whistleblower also uh is is protected
for some time. Okay. Uh city cannot ask that anyone who asks for records identify themselves so that so this can be done anonymously. May an agency refuse to allow records inspection because the agency I'm sorry
because the request to the agency is over broad or lacks specificity. Well, actually there's there's a duty to go back to the requester and say, you know, we need some some clarification here. Now what often happens is the request is
is incredibly overly broad and we'll get pages and pages of requesting this document, that document, the other document and then the city uh has the ability to make to give an estimate of how much time it will take to compile all these records and then an invoice is
generated to the requester. Sometimes the invoices are for thousands of dollars. when they get the invoice, they will often either drop the request or they will narrow it down to something more reasonable. That's how that is often handled. Um but but normally when
when you all are asked for your emails um that that's something you can you can search for pretty easily um you know on on your phones or or or your computers. And so the, you know, the over broad issue, you know, rarely would would be something that that you would um be able
to to um use as a defense. Okay. Uh can the records of a private person be deemed public records? Well, you all are private persons, although you're serving in an official capacity right now. You're wearing your official capacity hats, your invisible invisible capacity hats on right now. uh an agency is
defined as any person acting on behalf of any public agency. So I guess you all are are now now you know you all are agencies under the statute 1190112. Uh whether a person is acting on behalf of a public agency depends on the facts.
I think it would be very clear to most judges that a person who's serving on a planning and zoning board would be acting on behalf of the city. Uh what are some examples of a violation of the Public Records Act? Uh you don't want to destroy anything. Just just
don't don't destroy anything. I my my my rule is just just don't just don't I I don't I don't you know until established retention requirements has been met. I seven years but you know just if if the storage is
so cheap now you know why why bother? I mean, you probably could after, I don't know, eight, nine, 10 years or sometimes you get a new computer and I mean, often these, you know, the you know, these you could transfer data over pretty easily with clouds, but I I would say be
careful when you do get a new device. Make sure that everything you have gets uploaded to the cloud and then downloaded to your to your new device. That'd be something to be uh be concerned about. Uh um the city that's that's the city's duty to fail to acknowledge a request promptly. They
they're they're very good. They always acknowledge promptly. I think it's even done by computer. Is that is that right, Miranda? It does it. Okay. Failing to respond to a request in good faith. So, you don't want to be in that boat. You always want to, you know, be cooperative with the clerk's office and and giving
whatever the records are. All right. Penalties. Yes, sir. Penalties here. Uh any officer who violates again as a noncriminal infraction, it's a fine not not exceeding $500. Um, oh gosh, I you know, I didn't know
that was a public record. Well, they can still get you for 500 bucks. Then you go to the knowing violation. Uh, it's subject to suspension, removal, um, you know, from from from this office. It's a misdemeanor of the first
degree. Uh, you'll recall um Oh, here we go. A punishable uh by imprisonment up to a year. This is even worse than than the Sunshine Act. imprisonment up to a year or or these fines. Uh any person who then then you go to the next step up
willfully and knowingly violate. So before it's first it's you don't know it's not willful. The next one is you know you're violating it. The next one I know I'm doing it. I'm willfully doing it. I'm not sure what if you know if you know you're doing it. I'm not sure how you parse between the two whether you're
doing it willfully or not. But that's what this that's what the statute does. any provisions of this chapter, anyone who who violates the provisions of this chapter commits a misdemeanor of the first degree. Uh again, punishable by all these statutes. Okay. Attorney's
fees. Uh a court shall assess and award the reasonable costs of enforcement including reasonable attorneys fees against the responsible agency if the agency unlawfully refused to permit a public record to be inspected or copied. and the complainant provided written
notice identifying the public record request to the agency's custodian of public records at least five business days before the filing of of the civil action. So, I guess my my my request to you is is, you know, please cooperate with the clerk's office if if a public
records request comes in. Um, we we do not want to give someone making one of these requests grounds for for uh seeking their attorney's fees. Okay, I'm going to I'm going to kind of shift gears uh to some other ethics issues that I thought would be of interest to
you. U often things are right or wrong. It's very clear and other times there are just shades of gray. All right, let's talk about voting and and when you when you can abstain. Well, generally you're you should not abstain. uh no member of
the board, okay, uh may abstain from voting except when there is or appears to be a possible conflict of interest as prescribed in chapter 112. All right, so let's talk about conflicts of interest. Um the this is all [clears throat]
defined by chapter 112. So a conflict of interest is when you would vote on a matter which would inure to your special private gain or loss. So it so you could even [clears throat] come out worse for
something and it's still a conflict of interest. Okay. Uh which is a little counterintuitive, but but that's just what the what what the law is. Mhm. >> Uh the uh um [clears throat] uh you no member shall vote upon any
member I'm sorry upon any matter I can't read upon any matter which uh the member knows would endure to the special private gain or loss of any principle by whom you retain or the parent organization or subsidiary of a corporate principle of which he or she
is retained. Okay. uh or if you know that it would endure to the special private gain or loss of a relative or business associate. Okay. So, if you're if this is um if if you're part of a uh you have you
have shares in a company um that's something to to be care you know any kind of equity interest in a in a business that may come before this board you want to steer clear of that. Okay. If any relative of yours a um comes
before this board, you want to steer clear of voting on on that. All right. And also business associates. Okay. So, it could be a partner, it could be a joint venture, it could, you know, any kind of any kind of business associate. >> So, I do have one question for you,
Rick. And I think I already know the answer, but I'm going to ask it anyway just to get it out there. >> Please do. >> Um, >> you own shares of Lowe's. You own 10 shares of Lowe's. Lowe's comes before us and >> I wouldn't worry about that. >> Yeah, >> I wouldn't worry about that because
because the especially when when you're dealing with a publicly traded corporation, your ownership is minuscule. Like I own shares of of the the total stock market fund of of Fidelity. Okay. So every single not
every single but there's pro probably certainly the whole standard and pores 500 plus whatever represents all the midcap stocks plus what represents all the small cap stocks I have some infinite decimal small interest in all
these companies but it's not going to affect what I do because it's it just doesn't really it doesn't move the needle anything that I may do as city attorney or anything you all may do as a planning zoning board uh member. >> So I think you're you're okay. Uh so if
[clears throat] but if you do have a conflict uh you uh must abstain and then before the vote publicly state the nature of your interest in the matter that you're abstaining from and then within 15 days and Miranda will help you with this. Uh
you'll get a form 8b. It's also something you can just download. You have oh she has her with her a form 8b and you just fill it out. uh disclosing the conflict. You sign it, you give it to her, and and and she takes care of the rest. All right.
Uh let's talk about special private gain or loss. So, this is economic benefit or harm. And then and this goes to to to Joel's question. You know, how do you how do you measure whether you're part of this affected class? Well, you look at the size of the class, the nature of
the interests involved, the degree to which all class members are affected, the benefit of the burden received by by you as an official compared to others in the class, uh the degree of uncertainty as economic benefit or harm. And if it's uncertain, the nature of the econ
economic benefit or harm must also be considered. I mean, so I mean, think for for a second that uh you know, when when when Joel sat as a city commissioner, he would vote on the budget. He would vote to set the millage rate that he himself
would pay, but that's not a conflict of interest. Okay? It's it's um he's just one of however many thousands of of of residents were were here in the city of Akoi at the time. All right, but let's
um here's a um here's an example of a conflict of interest. I thought you'd find this of some some interest. Uh this is a uh a voting on a septic dour conversion project. I mean, coincidentally, we have one of these going on right now uh in downtown.
[clears throat] Excuse me. So here it was found that a voting conflict would exist would would be created uh if there's a vote on whether the city should proceed with a septic to sore conversion project u that would
involve uh her her residents among 87 others um because the council member would receive guaranteed funds parenthesis gains of $24,000 from the city and would have a mandatory
um outlay of funds she would personally incur if the project were underfunded. So there'd be a loss, thus incurring a special private gain or loss. So the the decision here, this is the Commission on Ethics. They they found
that's that's a conflict of interest. Just you got money coming your way due to a vote, just just stay away from that. Right? Let's talk about solicitation or acceptance of gifts. And uh you know it could be something very subtle that you're not even thinking you
know you're you're you're invited to I don't know the the Arnold Palmer golf tournament you know so hey I got an extra ticket to uh to Arnold Palmer you know why don't you why don't you come with us and and then you come to learn that the person who invited you hey has some business that's going to be coming
before this board. Just be very careful. I would not uh accept uh anything out of the ordinary. you know, if if if it's a friend offering you um the the Arnold Palmer tickets, you know, this is someone who you socialize with, you got the dinner with, then I I wouldn't think
anything of it. But if someone out of the blue uh who you're not expecting is is making this offer to you, maybe just that red light should should go on, should start blinking. So this statute 112 313 sub paragraph 2. No public
officer and all of you are public officers shall solicit or accept anything of value to the recipient including a gift, loan, reward, promise uh future employment, favor, service based upon any understanding that the
vote, official action or judgment of you um would be influenced thereby. All right. So, I I I think that's pretty self-evident. You know, you don't you don't want to be accepting something in exchange for a vote. I mean, that is
that is just clearly clearly wrong. Okay. [snorts] Mis that would that would also be a misuse of public position. And this is found in uh section 112312. Again, this is, you know, the agency. We talked about that. You all are agencies, so to speak. Uh you all are public
officers. You were appointed serve on an advisory body. Uh, and then here it is, paragraph six. No public officer shall corruptly use or attempt to use your official position to secure a special
privilege, benefit, or exemption for yourself or others or others. Okay? So, for anyone else, you cannot corruptly do this. Now, but if if it's not corrupt, if you're, you know, you're trying to do something good for for the uh for the
city, trying to get a special privilege for the city or benefit for the city, that's fine. So long there so long as there's no element of corruption involved. All right? So, so what does corrupt mean? Okay, corruptly means done with a wrongful intent and for the purpose of obtaining or compensating or
receiving compensation for any benefit resulting from some act or omission of a public servant which is inconsistent with the proper performance of his or her public duties corruptly. I mean the the picture I try to find a picture of of corruptly putting, you know, giving
them money under the table. That's just, you know, quintessential uh uh corruptness right there. All right. Uh this is a commission on ethics. One of their opinions uh an element of misuse of public position is is wrongful or
corrupt intent. Uh intent generally is determined from an examination of all relevant circumstances. All decisions must be firmly rooted in a valid public purpose. I think if you if you just base your decisions on that that you're always going to firmly do
everything you do for the public purpose, for the good of the public and not for yourself in any way or for any business colleague of yours or for any relative of yours. You're always looking for the public first. Um you're going to be just fine, right? Uh here's a Florida
Constitution uh [snorts] section 8H2. a public officer shall not abuse his or her public position to obtain a disproportionate benefit. So, it's it's interesting that a lot of these statutes, you know, find their root in the Florida Constitution. It's, you know, these things are so important that
they were placed in the the highest governing body of the state of Florida. Florida administrative code. What trying to figure out what's a disproportionate benefit? well means a benefit, a privilege, exemption or result arising from an act or a mission by a public
officer or public employee inconsistent with the proper performance of his or her duties. So that there there you have it. It if if it ever comes up, we can find it. Uh >> [clears throat] >> uh purchasing doing business with a
local government. Um just be very careful um on on this while acting in an official capacity. A public official may not purchase, rent or lease uh any realy goods or services for the public I'm
sorry for the local government from a business entity in which the official owns in material interest more than 5% or which you are an officer, director or partner. So there there is that that 5% rule there. Um while acting in a private capacity, a public official of the local
government may not sell, rent or lease any realy goods or services to the local government. That's what it says. Okay. Uh unauthorized compensation. No public officer shall accept any compensation
um or payment thing of value uh that the person uh knows uh with the exercise of reasonable care or should know that it was given to influence a vote or other action. Again, this is this is just use your common sense. Use your you know, go with your gut on this. If you know,
again, if someone unexpectedly is offering you something, just red light, let it flash, and then and then, you know, we you can um reach out to um uh to to to the city manager um um to to
see about communicating with me uh to uh whatever the issue is. You know, I want to try to get good information to you. If there may be if something's unusual, we can we can search the uh the decisions of the Commission on Ethics. um because there could be something unusual that comes up that you just
coming out of left field. Uh anyway, but but the burden is placed on the public official to exercise reasonable care in determining whether you're receiving something of value to influence your official actions. So, so you all have the burden. So, if there's some question about this um you have the burden. The
larger the value, the more difficult it should be to justify being given for any reason except to influence, you know. So, >> you know, don't, you know, don't accept the, you know, the jet from Qatar or or whatever it is. Okay, I use that just
sort of uh uh justfully here. Um just trying to make the point. You know, the bigger the bigger the thing is, then you leave yourself more open to criticism. Okay. >> So, pay for lunch when they ask you to go to lunch to talk about something.
>> Okay. All right. Uh here's [clears throat] another commission on ethics opinion. uh came out just a couple years ago. Acceptance and disclosure of accepting a preferential rate on a loan and donations from a GoFundMe platform. Okay. So commission
said you may accept loans from personal friends regardless of the amount loan or the interest rate. However, if the money is loan to you at a preferential interest rate, then you must disclose on a form 9 the monetary benefit derived
from a preferential interest rate. Uh, so throwing that out there too because who who knows when when we need when we need a loan for, you know, to buy a house or a car or whatever [clears throat] it may be. Um, if you if
you're if you're paying market rates, there's there's no and and especially if it's from a friend, you're you're you're really fine here. All right. um penalties for this uh impeachment, suspension, removal from office, civil penalty not
to exceed $10,000. Now it's, you know, before it was, you know, $500 bucks and then it it just keeps getting, you know, higher and higher on on these. All right. So, who decides if there's a voting conflict or an ethics code violation? And the answer is the Florida Commission on Ethics. And they prosecute
violations when a complaint is filed. They you you've heard all these opinions that they've been rendering and here they are. Here's the Florida Commission on Ethics. Uh no one sitting here [snorts] should ever have to appear before these people. All right? But but I'm going to tell you what the what the
process is just so you know in back your head. Uh just uh anyone anyone can file a complaint, okay, against an elected or an appointed official. um uh the complaint is confidential uh until the commission finds that there
was probable cause or there's just a dismissal. Okay. So, yeah, it gets filed, but no one can know about it, at least at first. Uh here's an example of a complaint. Uh and at first there it's reviewed by staff and they look to see
whether if the allegations, assuming they're true, would they potentially violate any ethics laws? And if staff determines that it would not um that's that that's one thing but it is a low threshold. Okay. Um so if it's
legally sufficient then the staff investigator begins a preliminary investigation. Okay. And a report of the investigator's findings is sent to the accused and to the commission's advocate is usually an assistant attorney
general. So you see the the advocate. It's it's really almost like a um it's almost like a prosecutor. Uh the accused gets to respond to the report. Uh the advocate will review the complaint, the findings of the investigator, and then
we'll draft a written recommendation on probable cause. So, we're still at the beginning of the process. Is there probable cause? And and you you've probably heard the term probable cause in the criminal context. you know, a a police officer cannot affect an arrest without having probable cause that a
that a crime has been committed. So, it's it's the same standard, this probable cause. Okay? And so, then the commission hears the advocates's recommendations on probable cause and then and it's a hearing. So, it's a it's a full-blown hearing that the accused
can uh can present argument in defense. Uh and then um [clears throat] and then at that point whether or not probable cause is is found this whole complaint becomes public and if there's no probable cause complaint gets dismissed
and bye-bye. If there is probable cause then the commission may order further investigation or just go ahead and set set a hearing and it's it's an evidentiary hearing. It's a same as a as a little mini trial. If a violation is found to have occurred, the commission may impose one or more penalties against
the public official. Uh and the public official may appeal to the district court of appeal having jurisdiction. And then uh there's the power of the governor to suspend municipal officers, you know, for malfeasants, misfeasence
or neglect of duty. Malfeasance is wrongful conduct. Misfeence is is performance that is improper or illegal and then neglected duty. It can be the failure to to perform your duty either willful or or accidental. So there is
that power as well and and the governor has not been shy about exercising that that power over time. Um, uh, you can also suspend for habitual drunkenness, uh, incompetence, uh, and permanent inability to perform
official duties. So, I wanted to throw that in there, too. Not that it's going to apply to any of you, but just just so you know, a any violation of the statutory code of ethics constitutes malfeasants, misfeasence, or neglect of duty in office. Okay? So you violate any
of these things, you know, governor can can can kick you out of of office. Uh governor has power to suspend a municipal officer. And uh you all are municipal officers. Um if if arrest if you're arrested for a felony or for a misdemeanor related to the duties of
office. Um I'm not sure what necessarily that that could be, but just don't let it happen. Uh, if convicted of any of the charges, the governor must remove the official from office. If acquitted or found not guilty, the governor must restore the official to office. All
right. So, um, hope that gave you a lot of food for thought or there's a lot of material there. Even if you've seen this before, that's a lot of material. And, um, each time I I look at that, I'm I'm just reminded, oh yeah, oh yeah, that. Uh, so I hope you found that helpful.
And, um, again, do you have any any any questions pop into your mind off the bat? I don't have any questions, but I've been I've sat here for a while and I do like it every time this presentation comes along. So, >> all right. I'll see you next year. Do it again. >> There's always something something new,
you know, something just to just a reminder, you know. So, >> Exactly. >> We appreciate that. >> Exactly. Appreciate Appreciate you listening. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> All right. So, looks like the next um item here is project updates. See a lot
of stuff going on liquid a >> [clears throat] >> We do. Uh so up in Lakewood A uh there is a sewer project going in that's started right now. Uh so there will be some traffic diversions. Uh we're trying to do the project uh not during school hours because understanding it's just
two-lane road. So they'll be starting later when school uh is in uh and then making sure it's all cleaned up uh at the end of the day. So when the students are walking home it'll be safe. So it is something that we have uh kept our eye on. But it will be a two-year project going all the way up to Worst Road.
>> Oh wow. So quite a bit, but do adding some capacity to that area, which we do have some projects. Uh you did see a couple months ago, we had the town home project going up there on Lakewood. There is still some other uh interest in some residential uh going up and down that area, but this does give us that
opportunity to annex in those properties along Lakewood as we're going to be providing those services. >> I'm sorry. So you're going all the way out to Clark with this >> uh up to Worst Road currently. Yes. Uh that's as far as the project is going for now. Uh but eventually, yes, we are
going to want to have uh our services going all the way up to Clark Kona Koi. Okay. >> Um as you know, we keep expanding our urban services. >> Cool. >> Um couple other projects. Uh we do have a uh an industrial office building going in off of Roer. Uh 4600 square feet uh
down off of uh you kind of see it off of the side of 429 as you're coming up. They support the Department of Transportation, but they're looking to put a new office in their on their property. Um, we do have the Akoi mixeduse project that's come in that's off of McKe and CMI. So, they'll be
looking at uh about 50 apartments and 10,000 square feet of retail. >> And then the Akoi Commerce Park, which is a lot of activity that we have going on on AOAKA on the west side. Uh that's about 450,000 uh square feet of industrial, retail,
mixed um kind of workspace. Uh that's going to be coming in. That will also help support our uh Pine Street project uh as we start really looking at that business area of our uh overlay district as we start expanding. So, those are a couple of projects that we had uh kind
of recently looking at and coming in that you should start seeing coming across your uh your desk pretty soon hopefully as we get this through the review process and looking for some of these approvals. >> I I see a metal building being constructed on Blofford just south of Main Street. What of the of the school?
What is that? >> Um Oh, so that's actually the floors direct um off they're expanding their warehouse. >> Okay. Um, but the O2B kids, as you see the day center there, there's a pad out front. We do have a proposal for some, um,
>> four 10,000 square foot little retail uh, office shops that would be going in there. Uh, we're still uh, discussing that with them. >> Cool. >> Lots of activity going on in the city. So, >> amen to that. >> Uh, I noticed there was um, there was a crew out um, doing some clean up in
front of the uh, regional complex. So, it seems like that's starting to starting to move. >> We do hear that starting to go. Yeah, they did start mowing that and fixed the fence and fixed their awnings. Um, so we're hoping to see them come back in pretty soon. >> Awesome. Awesome.
Just out of curiosity, I don't know what was going on White Road today. I I know the state police were out there um where at least where um Clark I mean where Clark Road was crossing white. There was a couple state police cars out
there. They see uh my wife came back to me and said, "Hey, what's going on?" And I said, "Nothing that I know of, but I I just didn't know if if we had something going on White Road that we had the the police out there to to >> nothing crossed my desk in development
services. That's usually maybe something up in the third floor that they would know, but um [laughter] no curious not hear about anything yet [clears throat] today. Uh cool. All right. >> Any more questions for >> development services?
>> Well, before we adjourn, I want to take a, you know, as you guys know, I'm a man of a few words. I want to thank you all for nominating me for this position. Um, I have served um on many boards with the city. I take nothing, I take nothing for granted. Um, I hope that my time in this
position would inspire those who want to be here, inspire those who are already here to eventually replace me and keep things going. Thank you to for my son being here and witness his nomination and I thank you all for that and I will serve this position with integrity and
respect. >> Congratulations. Look forward to work with you. >> All right. >> Nothing else. Meeting a journ. Thank you.