[Music] Hello. Welcome to this edition of Think Goldbridge. I'm Mayor Debbie Walker and I'm honored to be uh joined by former mayor and now Senator Owen Henry. Thank you so much for joining.
>> Thank you for having me, Mayor. I appreciate the opportunity to come back to OBTV, see all the nice familiar faces here at the town. It really is a an honor to have served for so long and be able to come back as senator now and still working hard. >> Yeah. People at home, >> yeah, I thought it was so important to
have you on because there's a lot of misinformation out there about the pilot programs. A pilot program means payment in lie of taxes. It's a structured tax payment that could go over the course of 30 years. And since you were mayor at the time when these began, I thought it
was so important to have you on so you can explain about the pilots because I think there's just so much misinformation. >> Yeah, it's misinformation. I think it's a lack of knowledge on a lot of people's part. What is frustrating to me when I see elected officials who were around during the pilot and start to say negative things about it and when I see
people who want to be elected officials and don't understand uh what the concept of pilot is you know as mayor I know as mayor the council knows and it's a very open and transparent process I must have went to the council four or five times
it goes handinhand with redevelopment and towns it's probably one of the only tools we have in our toolbox as mayor um to really control over development and stabilize the local tax base. One of the only tools you have left and the council has in order to make Oldbridge a
better place and actually um put you know a vision in place and plan for the next 30 years. So it's frustrating to me when I see people making comments um people that have just moved to town, people that uh really don't know what they're talking about when they put a negative connotation on pilots. And I
said, I was the mayor here for about the 12 years, and we were always concerned about the development on Route 9 north and southbound. As everyone knows, uh there was a big approval process in the late 90s for the Oaks at Glenwood,
Bernetti 2000. Both sides of Route 9 were planned, approved for development. just what you seen phase one with the shop right in the target and the strip malls in the front and the large residential component behind that what they have about 1,200 homes back there
>> well that was just phase one and there was seven other phases to go in along Route 9 so as mayor and I think as council we all said whoa let's take a timeout let's see what else we can do along uh Route 9 in order to stop that
influx of at that time 7,500 residential units were approved for. Now, with the new affordable housing in place, that's 7,500. It's probably close to 9,000 homes would be built. There was also a large uh commercial. Millions of square
feet were planned like continue with a shop right in Target. Just go all the way down Route 9, both sides with large commercial like we see in other towns to the north of us and to the south of us. There is no interruption of cutouts to go and turn into a shopping center. So
we came to the council, we say, "Hey, we have to do something." And then through the office of economic development. Um, and I would say that the stars aligned. Um, the Bernetti family was deciding to do something now. So we had a step in before they gave it to their developers.
What we see on Route 9 now in that one section was going to continue. So we said, "Let's go in a different direction." And we thought and we still think that warehousing was the direction to go in along north and southbound of Route 9. And that was to accomplish
three things. One was to stop the overdevelopment of Route 9. Two was to remove approximately 600 acres of residentially zoned properties. So you can imagine how many prop how many homes were
apartments, Glenwood apartments all the way up both sides of Route 9 South and higher lower density single families similar to what we see now being developed. um we wanted to take that off the ledger as we'd like to say. So in order to do that we had to entice a
developer to come in first of all buy the property from Bernetti. Bernetti never sold anything in his life. >> Yeah. >> Um but there was a change in the family uh ways of thinking. They wanted to entertain the sale of the property knowing that they had the approvals and
we were fortunate to have a developer to come into town say yeah I'd be willing to pay the price. And the only way he was going to do that was an incentive of a pilot. And I think people misunderstand the language pilot payment. They don't know what it means. They think there's no tax. >> They still pay a tremendous amount of
taxes. But they were not going to come. They were not going to come without a pilot because they are not going to pay the standard normal taxing that we do. Little to the town, most of it to the school district. No developer is going to come in and do that because it's not stable. It changes every year. Right.
What a pilot does, it gives a payment for the next 30 years that goes up every year. And it's big money, big money, but it helps the town, it helps you as mayor and council stabilize the finance of the town. If you remember, I remember like it was yesterday talking about the
advantage that the pilot would give us. And I was talking to the council. One, it would stabilize our finances and eliminate any high tax increases for the next 30 years. Second, it was going to guarantee that you have the money and the resources to
provide the public safety in this town, which we need as the rest of the state goes crazy. We need to have an adequate police department here and OEM and fire and EMS to give you the resources to continue that for the next 30 years
without having a negative impact uh on the residents. The third one was that we don't overt tax our school system. You can only imagine how many school children would have came out of the 9 to 10,000 homes, right? We don't have enough capacity now. We know enrollment is way down,
>> but if we saw that influx of um children coming into town, so that was to help the school and they were they were all in favor of it. Yes. In fact, they even sold land to build one of the warehouse. They were for all for stability over the next 30 years when it comes to enrollment.
um open space. The pilot program was designed to keep open space alive and well here in Old Beach because we don't have an open space trust fund tax. We do not tax our residents. And I came before the council. I said we can earmark part of that pilot every year a percentage
and now we could start building uh revenues or go out and buy parcels of land all around town and that gives you the money you need. You're not going to raise and you would know the price of land. Yes. Yes, but a pilot gave us the ability to raise millions and then go out and bond for even more money because
these properties are expensive when go around town. Um, so that's important. Open space and we negotiated a golf course that was part of the pilot, a new golf course. They talked about it 25 years ago. We were able to do that through a pilot.
>> There were road improvements that have been talked about for 50 years. The pilot brought these road improvements to fruition, connecting White Oak Lane all the way out, Jake Brown Road all the way out. They were never going to happen without this pilot. So, the people of Oldbridge,
regardless of their political affiliation, are benefiting from the pilots that we went through here in Oldbridge. And I would do it again in a heartbeat if they had the opportunity as mayor. if you have the opportunity to get improvements. I know there's a couple applications looking you can get
major off-site improvements without the taxpayer expense. And I think that's so important. I don't know what else I can say. Um I'm sure it can go on and on and on, but I think stability is what everybody wants in their life. No one would sign a 30-year mortgage, right? >> If you didn't know what the interest
rate was for 30 years, >> well, they wouldn't be able to get a loan. They would not be able because if you look at the finances now, right now, the board eds raised taxes substantially in the last two years. weren't under a pilot, those facilities would have but they weren't coming without a pilot, >> right? >> The banking industry and redevelopment,
they want pilots so they can stabilize and organize their finances for the next 30 years. Because when you think about it, this developer who came in and built those warehouses, he's investing, he's putting up front at the time close to a billion dollars to buy the property and
to build the buildings. Investing a billion. Now he's got to spread that out before the people come into the buildings and start paying. So his return on investment takes quite a while for him to start making his money back. >> And he has to have some stability and know what taxes he's going to pay. >> Any businessman knows you need stability
in finances. >> Yes. And like you said, having all those homes would just been a detriment to the town. It would have cost us a lot more money. >> And the same people who are complaining about the pilots are complaining about overdevelopment. Well, you can't have both. The pilot prevents overdevelopment. >> Exactly. and the way we use in a town. I
mean, other towns not far from here have used pilot programs to attract residential. Woodbridge wanted to revitalize their downtown. They wanted high-rise by the train station. That's what that town wanted. And they used pilots to do that. No developer is
coming in and building highrises with thousands of units and again be exposed to those big tax increases. He's not doing it. So they used it for completely different reason, but it's a tool that mayors and council can use to get what you want, what the people of Obridge
want. >> And I think that's so important. I hope that the people in Trenton don't take >> the the pilot tool away from the towns. And I think they're trying to >> well like an important thing factor to know is the board gets 60 cents on a dollar. The township should get 16 cents
on a dollar. So this is a tool for municipalities to help increase our police force, increase our public works department because running a town is not very cheap. As you know, we have all our parks we have to maintain. We provide so many services, paving the road, drainage, curbing, and this is a tool
for us for the municipality to keep the town safe. It's very important for people to know. >> You're preaching to the choir down there because I know how much it cost when I came into the town. We didn't have anything to do anything. So, you know, it took a couple of years to get back on track, but once we started, we started investing in our police department.
Every year we added officers, our public works. We added people that public works. They had the first, you know, they're the first one you see in the winter, the spring, the fall public works. So, we added more people there. We increased our fleet. We upgraded. We have modern equipment now throughout the town. That's not cheap. And as you know,
you have the record of tax increases over the last 16 years by my leadership and your leadership and they are negligible compared to other taxing entities. How much the county has gone up, how much the school district has gone up. >> And when you compare it to what you've I've been able to do and you've been
able to with 16 cents, >> yeah, >> people should be tipping our caps, not complaining that we're going in the wrong direction. You should be against pilots. If you want higher taxes, go if you want overdevelopment, then you should eliminate pilots. >> Now, though, you can't you can't have it
both ways. I'm sorry if I'm getting >> No, that's okay. We had to set the record straight, but uh if we look at the record from 2012 to present, the municipality has only raised taxes 10.75% on 16 cents. The board ed has raised taxes 46.21
in the same amount of time. >> And if we had every reason to raise taxes higher, we could have gone above the 2% cap. We were always very concerned. We had a couple of zeros. >> Zeros and a negative. >> Yes. You know, that's kudos to you and the council that worked with me. You
were on the council. We never did anything in vacuum here. We went and we had uh we had meetings with the public. And you know, for them to come out of the woodwork now and start complaining about pilots and give money from the township to already taxing authority,
it's not your fault. It's not the council's fault. It's not the pilot's fault. It's Trenton's fault that has put that taxi entity, the school district, under tremendous pressure. And you're not alone. >> There's a lot of districts in the state who have it worse. They were begging for
pilots to come in to help them bail out of the situation. The state and Governor Murphy has putridge and many other towns I represent in. So, I'm well verssed in what's going on around the state. It's true that governor has really he's crushed a lot of municipalities and
enforced like $23 million tax increase this year because of all the cuts to the school. >> We are so fortunate we have a good school system here in Oldbridge. I hope it can be maintained because we have high graduation rates. We have a lot of our seniors going on to the military
into the trades into higher institutes of of of learning. We have good results here. But there are some towns in New Jersey that pay all this money and we contribute more and more money from the state and are getting a third grade education out of high school. >> Yeah. >> And they just keep putting more and more money down that rabbit hole.
>> I mean, during election season now, we're hearing a lot of cries from some people that say they want to take money from the municipality and give it to the school board. They're going to destabilize our township to give money to the school board that already has 60 cents on a dollar and we'd have to lay employees off. And I just think it's
unacceptable. I think that fight needs to come to Trenton. >> Trenton >> needs to stabilize school districts. And I have a whole litany of ideas and how to do it where I showed them where the money was to do it. But of course, I'm in the super minority. So their answer
to me was shut up and sit down. I mean, I even came to the council one time and said, "Here, here's my plan." And papoo. Yeah. You know, so people don't want real solutions, I guess. >> You know what I'd love? I'd love to really see the school funding formula. Has anyone ever really seen it? Does it
exist? >> It does exist, but the way they apply it to Old Bridge and to another town, totally different. So, there's a lot of shells, you know, the school funding formula. You know, what's under the co, you know, it's scary and that needs to change because it's not sustainable. Yeah,
>> those increases will continue. And uh, you know, I'm committed working down in Trenton to uh um get this squared away because there's plenty of money. It's not a money problem. It's a spending problem. Well, they're taking money from performing districts like Oldbridge and they're giving it to underperforming
that are already swimming in money. It's not like they're don't have a lot of money and it's not fair to the Old Bridge taxpayers that they have to bear the >> That's a whole another TV show we can go on in education around the state. It really is depressing and it's not fair >> to the atrisisk uh population
>> that are suffering with these school districts. And I'm hoping that's going to change. I'm really hopeful that we're going to get some change in our state over the next few weeks. >> Yeah. and next year 26 hopefully it'll be good for our board of education money back >> and take um and allow you to proceed on the path you're going down without this
uh static or noise and I tell you don't pay no attention to it. >> No, I just wanted to have you I want to get the message out to the people that pilots are really good for municipalities. It's not a bad thing. They want to have increased police officers in increased public works departments. This is a way to get it
>> property taxes. So, if we can attack the school funding formula, I think Oldbridge will then go back to a below average tax. When I was in uh when I was the mayor, there was one year we were way below average when you combined municipal and school taxes. We were way
below the state average. Now, we're above the state average, which is not a good trend. As to no fault of you or my last years of my administration, they weren't. It's not, and I hate to say that, it's outside forces. Yes. Yes. >> That having an impact on on Old Bridge and many other,
>> you know, >> it's Trenton taking all the money and it's not fair >> their ideology, the way they think. >> Yeah. >> And the people that sit silent silently and don't say anything. That's even more frustrating. >> It's not fair the way they're doing the formula because we're not getting back the amount of money we send that we're supposed to get back. And
>> it doesn't have to be right. >> It doesn't have to be. They had they thought one sizefits-all. It doesn't. Transportation needs are different in Oldbridge. Special education is different in Old Bridge than it is in another community. Um things are so different. They really need to have factors. Start off with a base. Every
child get this much and then work off of that base and provide OBridge where they need the funding. Provide other towns where they don't need unprovide them where they don't need the funding. Where they're not getting results, hold people accountable. >> It's a simple formula when you think about it. >> Well, hopefully there's going to be a
change. We're be able to straighten this all out. >> Yeah. And uh >> but either way, we have to move forward. >> Yeah. And I we we I'll continue to fight >> and I'm sure as um >> No, there's always going to be opposition to anything, but this is something good. >> I'm hearing so much negative about the
pilots, the pilots, the pilots. And I a lot of people that are speaking about it don't really understand what they're talking about. >> No. And that's what's frustrating me when people who did understand the process voted for the process and now we're against the process. Um that that's a little frustrating. >> Yeah. I know there's several people on
council that voted for the pilots and now they're against the pilots. So, >> well, I think that's a problem. They pay no attention. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> well, I want to thank you for the great job you're doing in Trenton for trying to fight fight fighting for us over to get our money back. No, and it's it's it's the it's the
right thing to do and to reward good districts and hold >> failing districts accountable because I said it's not fair to the people that go to these schools with a 52% attendance on any given day. Le less than half the kids are in school in in in a big town
in New Jersey. How do you educate if the child is not in school? But yet the district is getting that Harvard type money to educate that child. I think it's like 40,000 where the kid is. Have community learning centers. Have uh vocational learning centers. Put the money in there and let them get so they
become productive members of society. Don't put them in a failing environment. I don't know. I'm frustrated. >> But my message to you and the council, embrace the pilot process. Use it to what you think >> um would benefit the town. And I know we're there there's still areas in town
where we could use redevelopment and then you could use that pilot process to get improvements off-site improvements that you think are so important to this town. And there's many >> because I I think the number one priority for people is safety. I think that's their number one because not everybody has children in school. A lot
of the seniors, their kids are fixed income. You could go on and on and on. >> So sa public safety seems >> public safety applies to everyone from the youngest to the oldest resident. And you need a stable to add the to build. You're not going to put 50 officers on
at once, right? >> You're going to grow three, five, and get us up to a number where you're comfortable, where mine was always response time. We need an officer at your house in two minutes. I don't care where we are, what we are, and I think we're pretty close to that. We keep and
you need to maintain that. But how do you do that when you have an additional 9,000 homes coming in? >> No, it's a big strain on our EMS, our fire, police, and problem all over the state of New Jersey. >> And if all the money was going to the school, the municipality would still be
getting 16 cents and it wouldn't be enough. >> No. And the board, you know, in all fairness to the board of ed, they need to step up to the plate. They need to make some tough choices with a continuing declining enrollment. And I think it's going to continue to decline. Unless you build 9,000 new homes, you
might see an uptick, but we have an aging infrastructure here in Oldbridge. They need to step up to the plate also and start making some tough decisions. And they are tough. I was on board of ed. Boy, there's nothing like, you know, getting booed at a board of education meeting when you're eliminating or
cutting a program that is popular. But when I was on a board of ed, we made those tough decisions. We were facing um a $6 million shortfall in one year. And we were able to take the steps, you know, and I was in the minority on the board of at the time, but yet I was able
to convince enough board of education members to say, "Yes, this is the right thing to do." At the end of the day, Obert school system will be a better place for for education, not for special interest groups. And I think the board of ed um they need to do some soularching and start making some tough
decisions. I think you have the perfect opportunity with a new superintendent coming in. >> You know, we have an election with some new board of education members coming on. I mean, people need to step up, ask questions, and not just, you know, rubber stamp everything that comes out of administration. We have so many
shared services with the board of education. A lot. We saved them a ton of money. >> Yes, we do. >> And part of the pilot was them moving off their property right on Jake Brown Road. And we house them here now on municipal property. So, >> well, one important factor we have to mention about the pilots is they're
still getting the land tax portion. As it gets improved, it even goes higher. And they're making money on the shop right in the millions. So, there is a substantial amount of money going there. >> Yeah. Um, I believe that the the old Lowe's facility, the Tesla facility, they pay school taxes on that.
>> Yes, they do. >> They didn't want to become part of the redevelopment area, and that's okay. If they don't want to, that's fine. >> Um, yeah, there's plenty of money coming into the into the school, and as residential does occur, Wood Haven is building
>> um the homes behind the shop, right, that's going to be more revenue coming into the school district. >> It's a double-edged sword because they're getting students, too. So, >> but not as many as people would think. >> People are having as much, >> you know, when they go through the planning process and they heard before the board the Rucker study, which I
think needs to be uh amended. It's been in place for a long while where they average 1.3 students coming out of a single family home. I don't think we're getting the 1.3 out of a single family home because I don't think they take into account that a lot of parents are opting for
private school. >> A lot of parents are homeschooling. believe it or not. >> Yeah. >> So, I don't see this big um >> rush to uh in increase our enrollment. So, that's why the board of ed's got to be uh make some tough decisions. >> Oh, yeah.
>> And keep the learning environment where it should be. >> It was a big hit to the taxpayers this year. And I mean, initially they were blaming us because we collect the taxes and it's hard to explain to people that come from the city New York where everything's all in one to explain to them there's two separate boards and we
have nothing to do with the taxation of the board at all. >> A big change in uh in attitude if the school district had to send their bills out. >> See a big change if they were getting the bill. >> Can you change that at the state level? Can you >> We could, but I don't think the flavor is there just yet. >> That would be nice.
>> Um I don't think we've reached that point. If we can fix our mess in Trenton, we could, you know, at le Pennsylvania they do that. As mayor, as a businessman, we got to handle all that money >> and we can get a penny for it. >> I know. >> Dawn and finance and they handle what's it got to be hund00 million by now.
>> And if somebody doesn't pay their taxes, we have to give every all the entities their money and we take the hit, which is like $2 million a year we take. >> You have to keep money in reserves, right? That and we know we have people that don't pay their taxes. >> Well, that's another point that you made. uh we have reserves that we keep to keep the town running. God forbid
there's another Sandy a COVID and some members want to take from that and give it to the board ed and it's just going to destroy >> when I came over I always tell the story there wasn't enough for the next payroll in reserves so that had to change real quick and unfortunately I had to lay off a lot of people when I first came in but
now we're a bigger and better stronger town more employees than we >> yeah even though the state order just came and said how important it is to have a surplus so important and they want to give it away >> well the bonding agencies look for >> yes we have great percentage and we've gone up and up and up and I think
eventually you're going to get the AAA. I really do. >> It depends on the the income level in >> there. There's a couple of um factors here in Obridgeidge that that we are gaining. We are gaining. Oage has become a very uh more affluent town wealth-wise. When I first came in I was
mayor the number was a little low. Now we're up pretty high. We see a big influx of people with money moving to Oldbridge or go the houses of the prices of housing here in Oldbridge are gone through the >> Oh, you could sell your house and people lined up
>> who have homes. And that's another thing with uh when we see overdevelopment, these overdevelopment are rental units, right? >> Very few um ownership. I mean, out of the 1,200 behind the shop, right, there's probably only about 200 >> 200 houses. Yeah. 200 homes that are
owned, the rest going to be rental, paying a landlord every month. Who's making that money? You're not building wealth. You're not. >> Well, it's the same with this affordable housing that's uh forced on us, mandated. It's uh it's crushing towns around us, infrastructure and everything. >> Um for what I've seen so far, Old is
doing a great job dealing with the mess that you've been handed, the you know, the leaking bag of you know what. >> Yeah. Well, we get blamed for all this building, but it's forced on us by the state, and they claim they're for open space, but yet they want us to take down every piece of open space and put apartment buildings on it.
>> Yep. They don't want any any greenways or any separation. They want development to development to development with nothing separating them. Um, but we're we're working for it. We're going to get it. I think we are. I think we have enough like-minded people that think that are thinking the same. >> Yeah. before it's too late, where
there's no grass left in the state, in the Garden State. >> And our new residents have to realize they left somewhere to come here >> for a reason. Do they want to maintain >> what they're here now, or do they want to be part of what they left? >> They have to think of that in the back of their head, too. Do they want to turn
into what they ran from, >> you know? So, that's something that the residents have to get, but that's a message that the the mayor, as a senator, I got to get out to people in New Jersey, my district. I don't think people understand the affordable housing mandate. I don't, you know, they're busy with their jobs. I I don't think they
understand how much is forced on these towns to build and then they get to build regular market units along with it. And that's what's really crushing. >> We should be emphasizing that state should be funding 100% affordable housing developments where you take
small portions, you know, 75 affordable units, not having to come with the 500 mark. Exactly. That's what's crushing us. The market rate in addition to the afford. They don't say just you get 600 affordable. Now multiply that times five.
>> The the 100% affordable over in Lawrence Harbor. They pulled the funding right out of that one. And that was they were going to own those units, >> right? They pulled that out from under >> pulled the rug right out from under us. Unbelievable. >> I was trying to get that money restored, but >> it's gone. >> I know. It's very frustrating, but I
just wanted to try to set this record straight on the pilots that they're not a bad thing. That we really value our public safety and >> it it they're a good thing. Everyone participates in the pilot. Everybody got a little something from the pilot. Everybody in Oldbridge benefited from
the pilot program on Route 9. Everyone. No one can say they >> That was 10,000 homes. Imagine how many cars I mean 20,000 surrounding community that don't have homes backed up to their fence. They benefited from it. the people who travel. And I know Route 9's a mess, but you can imagine how many
cars. >> Well, that's because to the south of us, they are really building like crazy. You look at Marorrow, Monroe, they're building like crazy. You You won't recognize Howell coming up Route 9. I didn't recognize it. I thought I was lost. >> I It was just building after building after building. >> And it's all rentals.
>> All rental units. >> It's It's >> And to our north, look at what East Brunswick is turning. >> East Brunswick is Brunswick Square Mall. I mean, once you leave Oldbridge, oh my. >> And 18's bad enough to drive on now. I can't imagine all this building is done. >> I I can't believe what's going on up
there. >> I mean, really, as far as residents, Old Bridge has not built that many more residents. This traffic is all from other towns. >> We were averaging, I think, maybe maybe 150 new units coming online. Um maybe at the height 300, but in a town this size,
that's nothing. It's nothing. when you look about how and what you need to be cautious of in the council and the future leaders of Old Bridge, Old Bridge is only about 50% developed, >> right? >> There is so much land available >> for building approved and zoned
>> that they you really need to and we we tried to work on it. Yeah. >> And change some zoning areas, but that's always controversial when you change a zone. But redevelopment and pilot is a tool you can use to do that and to try to save some of the land that's still
here in Oldbridge. >> I we're trying, but the state looks at all that land and they think we want it. We want to put apartments on it >> regardless if there's fight regardless of if the Oldbridge water and sewer can handle it. Regardless electricity in New Jersey, >> regardless,
>> that's another TV show. Electric. >> Yeah. We don't have the power in New Jersey to sustain the affordable housing. I don't know what they're going to do. >> The roads can't handle it either. >> Infrastructure is not here, you know, when they're building, you heard the nightmare stories of using condemnation to take an active farm in Cranberry and
build affordable units. >> I don't know what their end game is here with all this housing. I I just >> I hopefully I saw them. They were posted. Hopefully, I get some uh support from across the aisle to stop eminent domain on on farmland, active farmland,
to stop uh this public bidding process when there's a farm, an outside agency come in and out bid that farmer that's been on that farm for years and then make it, you know, abandon it and now make his case. I can build apartments here now. >> Right. >> So, >> exactly. >> We need to protect the farmers. We need
to keep the garden in Garden State. >> I know that's what I worry about because, you know, when we were growing up, there were farms all around us. I mean, when you grow, it was all farms. >> Um, believe it or not, I've been here for 65 years, and I've seen change in Old Bridge, >> but not as drastic as other towns. >> Oh, yeah.
>> When you go through South Brunswick, all those farms, they're gone. >> Gone. You go Cranberry Road. I was driving down uh uh Day Road the other day, it was completely different than when I remember it, you know, when I was going to school and have to drive it every day on my way to Trenton. It It's
completely different. And is the sin once the farms are gone? It's gone. >> Whether or not they can plant on a roof set someday, you can't bring them back. And I just hope that uh people wake up before it's too late. >> Yeah. But you know, the warehouses are necessary evil. >> People love to go online. We all do it.
And they want that package there the next day. >> But you did get open space with the warehouses though. >> Half the land. We did 600 acres. I believe development occurred only over 300 acres. So the town acquired three well there's 300 acres of open space which would have cost the town
>> millions of dollars if they had a purchase. You know what land cost >> and if that was houses that would have been built >> they would have built them like they did behind the shop right where you can touch one put your hand out the window no backyards right it's really uh a disservice to the residents in there. I can see why they're upset.
>> Yeah. >> You know looking for a scapegoat blaming the town and the pilot for them having no backyard. >> Right. >> You know >> I Yeah. I don't know how the like you said, this was all approved like 30 years ago. These have they should sunset at the state level these developments
after so many years because they no longer fit here, >> right? They get automatic 15-year renewal. So that gives them about a 30-year window. And I think that's why they pushed for that one very quickly because their 30-year window. Uh we were fortunate that that one was held up. >> I hate to say it, but it was in court
for a long time with the water and sewer department with the Bernetti family. >> Yes. where him being uh promised so many free hookups, but that was in the 50s. >> So I I think they were a little >> and I guess they came to an agreement with the water and sewer because that's
a valuable commodity right now, water and sewer. >> I think a lot of people don't realize that when people own land that they have a right to sell it or build on it and they want us to stop it, but legally we can't. If we went to court, we would lose every time. And you have to you have to work with a developer and once
you say no then they go to court and then you lose any gains or whatever. >> Exactly. You have to try to negotiate. >> You go back to zero. And most times if it's an approved use or there's a hardship the judge will look favorably upon the developer because of the
constitution life liberty and the pursuit of happiness which includes you know we're one of the only countries where you own real estate. You know you don't own real estate in a lot of other countries. You own it here in the United States. So you, as you say, you're entitled
to follow the zoning. Every town has to have zoning. If not, you do it, then you can do whatever you want. If you're going to say, "Well, now, you know, >> but we have zoning here in Oldage." And if that developer or if that land owner follows that zoning, >> he's allowed to develop his property for
his constitutional right. >> I mean, I've even seen cases go to court where it wasn't zoned for that and they've won in court. So, you never know. And the affordable housing, I think, gives them another leverage >> to meet your obligation. A judge will say, "Old bridge, you're not meeting your obligation. I'm going to meet it
for you by changing the zoning." And they want to eliminate zoning in Trenton, believe it or not. They want to eliminate the single family home. >> Well, one of the bad things about this affordable housing is the builders have a seat at the table determining how many units get built in a town. >> Fair housing. And guess who wasn't at the table? Professional planners.
>> Yeah. >> Who know how to do things. >> That makes sense. >> Yeah. Oh, that that was frustrating to me. >> You're trying to use reason now in Trenton. >> Yes. >> So, let's build the units where there's no water, there's no sewer. >> I don't know why they don't revitalize the cities where they have they have the
transportation, the infrastructure. They have the jobs. >> They could use that money to >> it would be more beneficial for the people. >> The warehousing and the the we know New Jersey was very industrial at one point. There's these big massive factories that could be converted. Conversion that
should be affordable housing. Virgin developers that would do it. They would do it. >> They're taking more farmland. >> Yes. Why take green space virgin land when you have an industrial building, >> you know, a million square feet sitting there >> be >> decaying? Yeah. We need this green
space. >> Yeah. It's uh it's a lifestyle that we have here in Virginia. We want to maintain it. >> We want to keep a lot of these farms. You know, like you said, we don't have an open space trust fund. We had put a referendum out before the people and they voted it down unanimously. that we
didn't they didn't want to have one even though we gave one to the county but they don't since we don't have one they don't want to give it back to us >> and the state has rules and like if you don't have an open space trust fund you are not entitled to matching grants >> and the county has a similar attitude we do get some money from the county um and
we do get a little from the state but if we did have a >> open space >> open space trust fund here we'd get more but I think with the pilot in place and once they start paying you know their increment you could dedicate a part of that pilot, build an affordable uh open
space trust fund within the municipal budget >> and now you'd be getting more money and be able to bond for substantial amount of money and now you could spread that because we have a stabilized base for 30 years, >> right? >> You could now bond for more money at that and increase our bond rating.
>> Yeah. Because we know what money we could count on coming in on it and pay whatever. Right. And now you could purchase some of these large priced parcels. I mean, some of these parcels are in the millions. >> It's it's million. You can only imagine >> what the developer paid for that Bernetti property.
>> And these people that own these farms, it's more profitable for them to sell them to developers than it is to sell them to the state. So, if you were given a choice, I'm going to give you 2 million or 20. You're going to take the 20. >> Yes. And that's what the state is at now. We're trying to become competitive with developers, but we don't want the
developers to use it as a tool to raise the price. So, we're being very careful. Um, we're dealing with a lot of I mean my district 12 is very diverse from Obridge and Madawan. If you start going to the west of New Jersey, it still is all farm. There's more horses and cows and people. Some towns that don't have
any traffic lights in some of the towns I represent. So they're but they're fighting for their life out there, right? >> They are fighting in western New Jersey for their life to maintain that quality of life. >> Yeah. I hope they win >> because there is no infrastructure out there. Things have to change or it's going to be unsustainable here with this
affordable housing. >> That's the thinking in Trenton. I don't know why. I can only summize why. I won't say it. >> Yeah, I won't say it out loud, but >> I think I know why. >> I think I do, too. I want to thank you so much for coming today. It was great having you because you were here when
this all initiated. >> Always available. My office is right here. >> I'd like you to come for some more shows. I'd like you to come back and we talk about the electric. That's a I think we could have a whole TV show on why our electric bills are so high. >> Funny story, we were scheduled to get a power plant in Oldbridge over by
Waterworks Road by Sabola plant and we were negotiating the pilot and we were negotiating and at the last minute they pulled out of a deal NRG. In fact, it was an election >> topic when I first ran for mayor. The the administration before me was counting on that plant coming, that
electric I were coming. was going to pay millions of dollars in town host community that was going to save them from the budget and then I'm in the industry and I knew at the time that that company had pulled out and they were still you know saying no it's coming it's coming and I said right on OBTV it's not coming
>> no pun but they pulled the plug on >> yeah no pun intended but that plug has been pulled and they didn't know what to say. >> Yeah. Well, that that's another big problem now with the um the new um uh the internet the intelligence. It's such a drain on the electric system right
now. We're missing out in New Jersey. AI is not in New Jersey data centers. >> They closed all the the infrastructure down. >> Yeah. I mean basically New Jerseyy's telling them if you want to do that bring your own power source. Yeah. >> So you would have to generate your own power. >> Yeah. closed down what six power plants a nuclear power
>> the nuclear um many of them I worked on unfortunately decommissioned Hudson Mercer Logan there was a number of them across the state just taken offline with no replacement no backup except for windmills that were
never coming we're never going to fill the gap >> they don't produce enough electricity >> you know and they blame PJM we're getting up on another show >> yeah that's our next show >> they're blaming people except themselves That's what's so frustrating. >> We got to save all this for our electric show.
>> The lights will go dim. >> Thanks for coming. I really appreciate you're setting the setting the record straight. >> I feel better now venting. >> Okay. And you're going to come back for the electric show. >> I will. We have many issues we can talk about. >> Yes, we do. Thank you. >> Thank you, De. Be well. >> Thanks for taking over.
>> I want to switch jobs with this for two weeks. >> Let me think about it. Now, >> I want to thank the public for listening. I hope you uh watch the show. We set the record straight on the pilots, how they really are good for a municipality. Thank you for joining us.
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