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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=4XJhvdZZr6c

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Everybody please rise. I'd like to start the meeting. Pledge >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, [clears throat] to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice.

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>> Please be seated. >> It's a little loud. Got an echo. Yeah. >> All right. [laughter] Good evening everyone. Welcome to Township of Old Zoning Board of Adjustment Regular meeting July 16, 2026.

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Adequate notice of this meeting of the Oldbridge Township zoning board of adjustment has been provided in accordance with the open public meetings act at least 48 hours prior to the commencement of this meeting by prominently posting in the municipal complex an announcement giving the time the date location in the agenda of this

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meeting such announcement to the home news and tribune filing a copy of such announcement with the municipal clerk and finally by posting the agenda on the municipal website. May we have a roll call. Miss Bchilli. >> Sure. Miss Andrews >> here. >> Miss Gomez

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>> here. >> Mr. Iso >> here. >> Mr. Scogno >> here. >> Mr. Spinelli >> here. >> Mr. Singh >> absent. >> Miss Fach absent. Chairman Sullivan >> here.

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>> This meeting is being televised on OB OBTV, the local cable uh network here, channel 15. Simultaneously, it's being broadcast on YouTube live. You ever need to refer back to the meeting, you can find that on YouTube. Uh, we're going to

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be a little out of order this evening, but I'll get to that when we get to the applications. We'll do some housekeeping issues first. The meeting will end at 10:00 with an open period of a half hour left uh for

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open for public comments. So, I would be mindful to the attorneys. I'm going to have to split the time because we have uh probably three applications to be done or to at least get on the record uh in slightly over 2 hours. So, we'll

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probably be cutting that in 40 or 45 minutes. All right. We'll see how that works out. Uh we have a C application that is going to go first. So, I don't think that's going to be that long. Uh back to business. U board members, item number three is the minutes. We have two

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of them this evening as to June 4th, 2026. Would someone move that for adoption? >> Is there a second? >> Andrews. >> Roll call, please. >> Miss Andrews, >> yes. >> Miss Gomez, >> yes. >> Mr. Iso,

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>> yes. >> Mr. Scogn, >> yes. >> Miss Penelli, >> yes. >> Chairman Sullivan, >> yes. Uh, board members, the same as the June 18, 2026. Would someone move that for an adoption? >> Gomez second. >> Second, Miss Finnelli. Real cool.

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>> Okay, one second. Sorry. Miss Andrews, >> yes. >> Miss Gomez, >> yes. >> Mr. Iso, >> yes. >> Mr. Scognagno, >> yes. >> Miss Spanelli, >> yes. >> Chairman Sullivan, >> yes. I was just trying to save some time. >> Sorry. [laughter] >> Item four's resolutions. We have two

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this evening's. The first one 8- 2026, Stephanie and John Walcott, design way. Mr. Buckley. Oh, by the way, Martin Buckley esquire uh council to the board this evening. Buckley, >> uh this is a resolution of the zoning

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board of adjustment, township of Oldbridge, County of Middle Sex, state of New Jersey, granting design waiver for property known and designated as block 18047, lot 24, also known as 30 Farmbrook

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Drive, Oldbridge Township, New Jersey. Uh whereas the zoning board of adjustment township of Wbridge County Middle Sex State of New Jersey uh here and after referred to as a zoning board has received an application for design waiver relief for property known and designated as block 18047 [clears throat]

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lot 24 aka 30 Farmbook Drive in Oldbridge. Uh whereas the owner's applicants are Stephanie and John Walcott and the applicant is appearing uh appear proay. The purpose of the application was to obtain a design waiver relief to legitimize a driveway

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expansion that was installed without a permit and the driveway was constructed.1 ft from the sideyard property line where 5 ft minimum was required. [snorts] Uh the property is located when the R six medium high density residential zone. At

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the time of public hearing, the applicant testified that they are seeking a sideyard setback of 1.2 2 in where 5 ft minimum is required which requires a design waiver. By way of history, the applicant purchased the property four years ago and their intention to expand the driveway to

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accommodate two vehicles. Um, and that's essentially it. The the matter was open to the public and there was no opposition. >> Thank you, councelor. Uh, board members, you've heard the resolution, so we'll move it, please. >> Scott, will I move it? >> Is there a second? Is roll call, please.

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Miss Andrews, >> yes. >> Miss Gomez, >> yes. >> Mr. Iso, >> yes. >> Mr. Scogno, >> yes. M. Spinelli, >> yes. >> Chairman Sullivan, >> yes. Uh 072026Z, ENFRA MCC LLC, major preliminary final site plan CND variance. Councelor,

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>> and this is the resolution of the zoning board of adjustment, township of Volbridge. Um uh granting application for preliminary and final major site plan with use and bulk variance relief for property known and designated as block 1700 lot 28.11

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which was formerly lots 28.11 and 28.12 in old bridge. Uh the zoning board of adjustment has received an application for preliminary major final site plan with use and bulk variance uh approval for those properties. The applicant is

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Enfra MCC LLC. The applicant was represented by Nyall O'Brien, Esquire. And the purpose of the application is to receive preliminary and final major site plan approval with use and bulk variances to construct a solar photo

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volic uh canopying over the existing parking areas to the west and north of the main hospital building. Uh the property is located within the hospital age zone. In support of the application, uh the applicant has submitted uh various

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documents um and provided testimony of uh Todd Kiddings Jr., a professional engineer, and let's see, uh Keith uh Coast uh for the applicant.

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Brandon Cole for the applicant, Lance uh Landraph who's a professional planner. Uh and the matter was open to the public and there was no opposition and the board decided to grant the application. >> Thank you, Mr. Buckley. You've heard the resolution. Someone move, please.

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>> Gomez. >> Is there a second? >> Andrews. Please. >> Miss Andrews. >> Yes. >> Miss Gomez. >> Yes. >> Mr. Iso. >> Yes. >> Mr. Scogno. >> Yes. >> Miss Spanelli. Yes. Chairman Sullivan. >> Yes.

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>> Uh at this time, Mr. Buckley, I would ask you, we have three professionals on the days this evening. I'd ask you to please swear them in. >> Sure. Can everyone raise their right hand? Does everybody swear or affirm to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So, I hope you do. >> Could you please just state your name on

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the record for the for the audience? >> Rakkesh Dargy with Environmental Resolutions. I'm the zoning board engineer. Vita Salvin the Tom Shabl and Daniel Hall and zoning officer. >> Thank you all. Uh so we're going to go a little out of

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order this evening. We have a C variance that we're going to deal with first before we move on to the further applications. So it's if you're holding an agenda, it's the last one on. Please feel free to come up. It's 11-2026Z Arthur Lesler. This is the R20 low medium density uh residential zone. It's

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block 13001, lot 50. Physical location is five lean court here in the township. Applicant is seeking approval for an open air portico above [clears throat] the existing platform along uh Ellen Circle side of the property.

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Mr. Lasser, I know you've you've appeared here before us, I think, and with your wife as well. The board attorney is going to swear you in first before you seat. Okay. >> Can you raise your right hand, both of you? Do you swear affirm tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I help you God. And can you state your name for

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the record? >> Just state your names. Well, you could sit down and then just state your names and your your phys your physical address. >> Turn those on. They are directional, so they have to kind of be close to you. The microphones >> and you name Yeah, you could

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>> Al Kramer Lesler. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Arthur Lesler. >> Okay. And you both live at five lean court, right? >> Correct. >> Okay. You could probably pass that slide that over to the professional and I would ask that uh Mr. Buckley swears you in at this time as well. >> Uh do you raise your hand? Do you swear

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from tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So I do. >> All right. State your name uh for the record. Spell your >> Sure. Gregory Middle initial J Waga W A 21109 St. George Avenue Raw, New Jersey 07065.

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>> You testifying tonight as sir? >> Yes. About two years ago I test I was in front of this board. >> Right. You're a professional architect? >> I am. >> Okay. And you were licensed presently in the state. >> In the state in good standing. Yes. And eight others. >> And I know you have appeared before this board as well. >> Thank you. >> Uh

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I don't know that you're obviously not representing them as council, but you are representing as as a uh as a professional architect. Uh normally when we have se variances, people don't bring representation. And I know what probably Mr. Waga will do for you. But I would

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open up by saying as you came the last time, what we want to know is what what is it that you want to do, why you're doing it, how's it going to be accomplished, and anything else you might want to tell us. If there's any physical exhibits other than what you've already submitted, you would give them

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to Miss Belli and they'd be uh handed out to the port. Short of that, if you feel like just turning it right over to Mr. Waga, you can do the same. >> I'll defer to my wife. She can >> Okay, then. That's a very good answer. [laughter] >> This is pretty much her project.

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>> Okay, sir. >> Yes, ma'am. Tell us what's going on at your home. >> So, we wanted the portico in the back. Um, we have a sun room, which you guys, >> you were here a number of years ago for. I recall that. >> Yes. And it's wonderful. [snorts] Um, so we wanted that for the back

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steps. Um, sometimes I go out and put things out there. Um, can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh what else? Uh I just we have one in the front. >> Oh, so it would look the same as the the

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one you're going to put. >> No, it's going to be much smaller. >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> Yeah, much smaller. >> I'm sure the professional can he'll probably explain the dimensions to us. >> Yes. >> Okay. And you want to do this so you sit there, I guess, or you >> Well, it's small, but yes. Or sometimes

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I put things out and um that's it. >> Okay. anything, sir? >> No problem. >> Probably very good as well. [laughter] >> I'll let you take it over, sir. >> Thank you, chair. >> So, as Miss Lesler just espoused,

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>> hold on one moment, sir. >> Sure. Oh, okay. No worries. Thank you. So, as Miss Le >> It's on. >> It's on. As Miss Lesler just espoused, uh we did what we what we're doing here. We have unfortunately well fortunately and unfortunately a situation where the

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home buffers uh two streets. Therefore, we have two front yards to take into consideration. [gasps] The front yard setback, we did complete a portico edition last fall. It's since been built uh and it didn't encroach into um into the front yard setback. The front yard

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setback in this zone is 50 feet. Uh we satisfied that obligation on the front yard off of Leanne. However, we're deficient substantially in the rear yard. Um the lot is skewed, the home is skewed on the lot. It's not directly

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parallel with Ellen. Um and therefore we have two different setbacks. We have one approximately 17 ft and one approximately 18 ft. Uh the reasoning for us being here is because um the Leslers requested that the portico be

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attached to the house and in doing so and meeting nicely with Dan and and Moren they've been so helpful throughout this process. Um I was advised we were advised that once you attach it to the house now it becomes part. We we opted we looked at options for uh creating a detached portico it would have looked

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awkward. Uh so therefore we came up with a very interesting solution. We're just going to follow the profile. Um, let me let me just inform you that the sheets that I'm presenting, there's no new exhibits. They're both sheets, two of the sheets that I were presented to you and that you have in front of you. Um,

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so basically what we do, we have a gable roof, a lows slope gable roof off the rear elevation and we're we're adding what is the equivalent of just over 37 square ft of portico uh which will not uh exceed the footprint of the existing

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stair only on the sides for drainage purposes. They'll everything will align. It'll be streamlined here. It's shown on the right side um center of the drawing u and it'll be open air columns will be bearing down on the already uh structurally sound stair system uh and

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everything will be tied in to satisfy um everything code related for uh for building. >> Right. Thank you sir. >> Thank you Dan. Mr. Hollahan. >> Mr. Waga uh stole my thunder here. Is there really not much else I got to say?

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Keep going. Um yeah, so as he was explaining that the home has two frontages. In the front yard of where the house faces, you have Leanne and then in the back um you have Ellen Circle. So there's a 50 ft requirement uh for the frontage along both sides. So

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as he mentioned before, the Portugo or the um the sun room was approved by this board I think back in 2021 2022. The stairs are part of that application although they were uncovered. The reason that they're here tonight is because now they want to cover the stairs. So that

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roof over those stairs now further encroach into that front yard setback. So it's just the 1C variance. The proposal I believe is 17. >> Yeah, I can review that. >> It is it is 17.63 63 on the left and

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18.5 on the right side of the stair as you're facing the back uh elevation. >> Yep. So, the variance would be 17 and and change where 50 ft is required. >> And it it just barely goes over the what's already there, the stairs, in order for the drainage.

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>> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. We're just aligning it chair with with the the sophet of the existing pre-approved sun room so that everything looks nice and uniform. It looks as though were built that way four years ago or 3 years ago. >> Understand? >> Yes, sir. >> Anything else at this point, sir?

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>> No, sir. >> Anything else to Mr. Hollahan? >> No, chair. >> Questions from the board? I'll start on my left. >> No. >> None. >> Thank you. >> Good. >> Mr. Andrew, >> no questions. >> I have none. I think you've uh offered

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it succinctly. Um Mrs. uh Lesler did a great job on uh >> Yes. Star taking taking us through that. I have no questions. Thank you. >> You have anything else you want to say at this point? >> I I don't >> I have to open a public portion on this. Is that okay? >> Yes.

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>> All right. This is matter 11-206Z physical location. Here's uh five lean of court lean court uh in Obridge for a portico. Anybody in the room here this evening wish to be heard? Please raise your hand or stand. This will be the only public portion

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because I'm assuming we're going to make a decision on this this evening. Councelor, I've seen none. I'm going to close the public portion. Okay, sounds good. >> Anything left uh that you would want to say? >> No, sir. >> Mr. and Mrs. Les, there anything that you want to add? >> No, sir.

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>> Okay. You're going to ask us for a C variance uh for the setback and that's the only uh issue, right? There's nothing else. >> Correct. >> All right. the C variance for the setback which is I guess pre-existing in a sense that it was already granted

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under the for the stairs. Someone interested in moving this for the C variance. Is there a second for this? >> Andrews. >> Roll call, please. As to see >> Miss Andrews. >> Yes. >> Miss Gomez. >> Yes. >> Mr. Iso. >> Yes. >> Mr. Scogn. >> Yes.

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>> Miss Spinelli. >> Yes. >> Chairman Sullivan. >> Yes. >> Has been approved. There'll be a resolution by the next meeting. >> Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. Thank you for coming in. We'll see you in three years for another project. [laughter] >> Much appreciated.

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>> Okay. Sorry. Have a good evening. >> You too. Thank you. >> Oh, [clears throat] thank you. >> Sure. Take care. [cough] >> All right. Soon as they clear out. >> But we're going to do uh Juan Figureroa

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is going to be next. That's 63-2023Z. Juan Figureroa. It's ED1 zone. That's economic development opportunity in R seven medium high density residential. This is block 26020 lot 5.11

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minor site plan with devariance. The applicant proposes to legitimize a the site as a mixeduse residential and commercial business for flooring business. The physical location here is 1123 Englishtown Road. Mr. Lewis Granad

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Esquire representing the applicant. Mr. Gdan, >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Lean on first. This application is as a result of >> Before we go any further, >> you're going to need a microphone, too,

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Mr. Granada. So, you >> got >> feel free to be seated if you feel more comfortable. >> And you're not going to be using a stenographer? >> Yeah. >> That is the board rule. So you can wave that rule and you can uh take on your own for the I guess the through the media. Okay,

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sir. A short overview of the application. Mr. Figgerero has owned this property for over 20 years. It's on Englishtown Road. Uh he has operated a business there consisting of a uh

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flooring business. Uh the operation there is no business there. There's no commercial activity on the property other than employees coming there, getting into a van and going off to a work site. There's no storage of any equipment, no storage of any uh

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materials. Uh the application was uh uh I believe a neighbor complained about it and that's how it came uh to a violation of uh or that's how [snorts] this started. So for 20 years he was operating it. Nobody ever bothered him.

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Mr. Fger, please. Yeah, it's good evening to everybody. We're attorney to swear you in, sir. Can >> you raise your right hand? Do you swear affirm the whole truth and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> And can you state your name and spell your last? >> My name is Juan Figueroa. Fi G ue R O A.

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>> Mr. Carol, where do you reside >> currently? I reside overseas in Kali, Colombia, South America. >> And [snorts] uh you're the owner of this property? >> Yes, sir. 1123 Englishtown Road. >> And how long have you owned this property? since 2006.

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>> And in 2006, explain to the board what you did with regard to the property, the condition of the property, and what improvements, if any, you did to the property. >> Okay. The business I founded in 1996. I was renting a property in Arby's

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landscaping down in Englishtown Road. Uh I purchased the property for the reason of moving my business to my own location. Uh when I purchased the property, the property was kind of like rundown. The person that uh used to own it, he didn't

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live there all the time. So, uh the backyard was in a little bit of a mess. Uh there was an above ground pool. There was a lot of u weeds and whatnot. So, we cleaned up the backyard.

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We removed the pool. the garage was in need of some sort of a repair work. We did that um uh throughout the years. We did some uh sighting roofing to the house. Uh

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everything was done by Sodano uh contracting and the company always was based there. I at one point I used to live in 113 Bentley Avenue uh and the business was uh 1123

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Englishtown Road. Then I sold the property in uh Bentley Avenue. I moved to leave at the property 1123 Englishtown Road and maintain the business there. Uh the operations is

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uh about 8:00 in the morning. One vehicle comes to the property. about four guys comes into the property. They go into the garage, they change, they uh load the equipment that is needed, vacuums,

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um buffers, uh sometimes uh polyurethane, waterbased, a little bit of uh brushes and hand tools that is loaded into the vans and then take off to the job sites which are 95%

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residential and about 5% commercial. So they go they leave the car behind. There is three commercial vehicles, three vans for work. So they go in their vans. >> And where are the vans maintained?

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>> The vans are maintained well uh any kind of a work related to the vehicles is down the road or by the the tire shop right here on 516. American tire. >> No maintenance or oper or repairs are done to the veh on site. No maintenance,

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no repair, no washing of the vehicles, nothing to do with the vehicles there. It's just park at night and take off in the morning. >> Okay. Uh does the board have a copy of the site plan? >> Yes, I see it. >> Uh there's a residence on the property.

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Would you describe to the board the the home that's there? >> Yeah, the house has uh four bedrooms. There is a family of uh three adults and two children living in the household. >> They live there that's their home.

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>> Yes sir. >> Okay. And what do they do with with regard to the business if anything? >> Well the business is man I manage the business from overseas via internet. >> So the phone rings on my cell phone in Colombia. I answer I make the

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appointments. I schedule the appointments for estimating. I'll send them to the guy via uh WhatsApp and then he goes and does the estimating. He sends me the paperwork via WhatsApp. I do the

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estimating in computer at in Colombia. I'll send them to the homeowners via email and then that's how we we work. Okay. So, other than the vehicles being stored on the property and the use of the garage, there's no operation of the

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business there? >> No, there is a desk with a computer and a telephone, but there is nobody there answering the phone. There is nobody going into the house uh to see any kind of products [snorts] or any kind of uh materials because there is nothing

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there. >> Are there any deliveries to the property? No, all the property, all the materials are delivered to the job sites because the the nature of my business is the wood has to acclimate in their home that is going to be installed. So, they

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cannot be brought into the shop and then brought into the homeowners to be installed. It has to be at the homeowner's uh job site in order to be able to be installed. >> So, the the total operation of the business is the employees, you said four employees. >> Yes.

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>> Arriving at in one vehicle. Yes. In the morning. >> In the morning. Between what time? >> 7:45 to 8:00. They come in, they get changed, [snorts] they load the vehicles with the hand tools, they go to work. 8:15, 8:30, they leave the premises in the work vehicles. When the job is

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completed, then they come back, unload the tools, load, get into the vehicle that they came in, they carpool every day from West New York, New Jersey, and they go back home. >> And that's the total operation, total business activity. That's at the site. >> Yes, sir.

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>> Uh, do you have any signs with regard to the operation of the business on the property? >> No, sir. >> So, anyone walking down the street or traveling past this particular property just sees a house and a parking lot? >> Yes, sir. Residential. >> No other activities?

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>> No. >> Uh, does the house have any outside lighting to light to illuminate the parking area where you have your vehicles? >> No, just residential lighting. It's nothing commercial. Now, there's a um a concrete pad in to

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the uh it's not up on the >> I'll get it. >> Could you put the second page, please? >> Yep. >> Just one second. There you go. Thank you. On the right hand side of the site plan is the Old Bridge, Englishtown, Middle Sex County, Route

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527. And to the left to the rear is Park Avenue. >> That's correct. >> Okay. And there's a concrete pad uh to the rear of the property in ne in back of the masonary garage. Does the board see where that is?

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>> Do you want a pointer? Yeah, >> it would be helpful. My fingers aren't that long. >> There you go. >> Right there. >> The rectangular. Yes. >> That's the concrete pad. What is that per what's the purpose of that concrete pad?

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>> That's to hold a 15yard dumpster to uh when we finish the jobs or depending on the job that we performing on a daily basis. Sometimes we go to a home that we have to remove the carpeting because the hardwood floors are beneath the

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carpeting. So, uh the client request to remove the carpeting. So, we take the carpet and cut it up, put it in in this dumpster to be disposed when the dumpster is full. Uh >> how often is the dumpster removed or emptied?

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>> Uh is about a month, once a month during the day. This dumpster belongs to Sudano waste. disposal. So, he doesn't operate at night. He only operates during the day. >> So, once during the entire month, uh,

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other than your employees and the restrooms there, the only other vehicle that comes onto the property is Sedano to remove or replace that dumpster. >> That's correct. >> And do you know what time of day he does that? >> Everything depends on his schedule, but mainly most of the time is in the

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morning. I have no further questions. >> Mr. What? >> Mr. Hile, hand, you feeling you doing anything on this? Okay. >> I have no questions at this point. Chairman, >> board [clears throat] members, any questions of the owner? >> Question about the dumpster. Is it an

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enclosed dumpster or is it something that you can just toss something in? Like say if it rains, will the carpet start smelling after time? >> Well, there is a tarp that is applied over the dumpster and tied down just to prevent anybody to go >> in by accident.

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>> Is it inside the [snorts] gate? >> It is inside the property. >> Well, the property is gated by a fence throughout the the entire house, but there is no a gate specifically for the dancer. On the back side on Park Avenue,

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it looks like there's a set of gates that open. Is that so the dumpster can come in and out? >> No, ma'am. Because the curb is too high for any type of vehicles to go in there. Okay. >> It is there for the purpose of removing the residential garbage that is being picked up in park on Park Avenue.

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>> Okay. Melli. >> Uh yeah, I >> have a question regarding the stains and varnishes. >> Yes, ma'am. >> They're kept in the building. Yes. >> Okay. Are they flammable? Because stains and varnishes and, you know, rags that

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you've used to stain things with and everything else, they do become flammable. >> Yes, ma'am. >> So, what is in place to protect that should a fire start or should something happen? >> Okay. Uh, yes, we do get an inspection

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on a yearly basis from the fire department. As a matter of fact, it happened last week. The fire department goes in there and inspects the property uh for whatever they do the inspections for. Uh 99% of the work that we do nowadays is done with water-based

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polyurethanes and finishes are not flammable due to the fact that that is a possibility of happening. So, >> right. Well, it's the 1% I'm worried about. [laughter] >> So, like you know, is there fire suppression? Is there you know, you're my concern is you're running this

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business. You're not here. So, what happens if something happens? Someone's got to call you. They got to call Colombia. You gota You have to get someone here to take care of it. I guess these tenants are just tenants for you. >> Okay. >> They're not connected with this at all.

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>> No, they are. Yes, they are, ma'am. Uh, back in 2013, uh, I became widow. So, I sold the business to this person that is living in the household. So that's when I left the country. I went back home. >> So the person living in the household

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owns the business. He >> he owns the business, correct? >> You manage it from Colombia? >> Yes, ma'am. I'm an employee. I just own the property. >> You own the property. Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> So, anything related to that type of

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emergency, he is right there on site. >> Okay. >> Anything else, Mr. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes. How many employees show up in the morning? >> Four. >> Four employees comes in the vehicle. >> And how how many four vehicles? Four

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separate vehicles. >> No, one vehicle that they carpull from West New York, >> right? >> Uh into the property. >> And then how many vehicles are on the site to the trucks leaving? >> There is three vans, commercial vans, work vehicles that they go to the

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different jobs during the day. >> So you have four employees coming in. >> Yes, sir. and three vans going out. >> Yes, sir. >> And what time is that in the morning? >> The they arrive to the property around 7:45 to 8:00 depending on traffic. As

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long as they change and they load up the tools, they take off. So, >> usually by 8:15, 8:30 they're off the property. You know, I'm concerned about the noise factor in that area with the homeowners living around you at that time in the morning. Hearing trucks open

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and things like that and uh supplying their trucks and things. >> It can be annoying. I wouldn't want to live next to it. If if I may, uh what they they load in when you load in a vehicle, you open the doors, you put the

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tools in there, shut the door, and and leave. So, it's not as >> there's conversations there. It's just Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. Is there a division between the home and

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your masonary building? >> Yes, sir. There is a PVC vinyl fence uh 4 ft high >> and it'll go straight across to separate the two. Um and you've been running this this this

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business has been running for 20 years. >> Yes, sir. >> At this location? >> At this location? Yes, sir. >> In the same conditions? >> Yes, sir. >> Nothing changed? >> No. Um, [groaning] that's zone to do that. Mis.

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>> Yeah. Uh, >> I'm, uh, seeing the site and I just saw it from the front of the building. It seems like your driveway goes completely over to Park Avenue. Uh, that driveway is not used consistently to go in and

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out. >> It off of Park Avenue. the the driveway looks if you look at at from the front of the house, it seems that the driveway goes all the way and then there the there is an open it looks like an open fence. Now, you said that

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the the nobody comes in there for the dumpster, but do your trucks go through uh go out the Park Avenue exit? >> Yes, ma'am. The only entrance to the property is from Englishtown Road and that is that driveway that you're

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talking about that it goes way back to to Park Avenue Park Avenue. >> But in Park Avenue there is no entrance or exit because the curb wasn't allowed for that. So the vehicles enter and exit through Englishtown Road.

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>> Okay. And uh you said something about rubbish being picked up. That's the only thing that goes out those doors from the Park Avenue. fence. >> Uh, no ma'am. The the rubbish comes in, the truck comes in, load up the dumpster into the truck and exit enter and exit

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through Englishtown Road. There is no usage of the back door for Park Avenue. It's only to remove the residential garbage can that is being picked up at in Park Avenue. >> Okay. Because uh the defense looks like

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it's opens both ways when when It's not it's not a solid straight across. There is an opening there. There's a there are two two doors. >> Correct. >> In the back in in Park Avenue. Yeah. There is a gate that is being used only

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for that purpose. >> But on the front there used to be a gate that we used to open and close. But when we had that hurricane, they just blew blew away. So, we decided to just leave the front part without the >> Yeah. Well, my concern is if the gate

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can be open and closed. Um, and it's quite large. It looks to be quite large >> in the back. Yes, ma'am. >> In the back. Yeah. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah. I would imagine if it wasn't going to be used, it would be a solid fence across there. >> Yes. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to

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reduce the size of that gate to a single gate. a single I don't know four-footer for the garbage can to be able to go in and out rather than having two full. [clears throat] >> So then your your regular refues is done

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on Park Avenue, not on Englishtown Road. >> Yes. Residential uh um garbage disposal or pickup is in Park on Park Avenue. >> So in the pictures on on the maps, the green garbage can is your garbage can.

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>> It could be. Yes. There is agree and there is a blue garbage can. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You have four employees, right? >> Yes, sir. >> They all come in one car. >> Yes, sir. >> And then three of them drive a vehicle.

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And what happens to the other person? >> He goes with them. >> He goes with one of them. >> Yes. When whatever the uh >> the family that lives in the home is now the I assume male or female. One of them is the owner of the business. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Do they do operations from the

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home or do they go back to the office? >> Um operations regarding >> Well, operations I'm guess the daily routine of doing accounting, doing businesses, the scheduling scheduling I mean >> that that if there is any kind of

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>> is the owner not involved is the president owner not involved in the operations? >> No, he is. Yes. uh if there is any kind of operations to be done at home is done in the basement where there is a desk where there is a computer >> and and a printer. So I do print the

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estimates tell them well I printed the estimate just pick it up and and go. >> Okay. So this the home >> the area that looks like a garage uh on a smaller scale is for the tools. >> Yes sir.

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>> Okay. There's no operation that goes on in there other than the storage of tools. >> Tools. >> Correct. Only storage. >> What is the tree fort for? >> The tree fort. >> That was for the kids of the res of the residents. >> Okay. And the shed in the back

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>> for uh lawnmower uh snowblower >> property maintenance. >> Yes. For the residents. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome, sir. >> You have another witness, Mr. Granada? >> Yes. >> Allison caution. >> Oh, I'm sorry. You got something? >> Yeah. Um, do you have an engineer who

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would be testifying too or is it just Allison? >> Allison. >> So then who is going to respond to some of the questions related to the site? >> I believe that Mr. Key has already responded to the engineer and uh is

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going to comply with any of the requirements. No, but I >> I haven't seen >> we haven't seen anything and there are some questions that need to be answered by the engineer.

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>> What questions in particular? I mean if you go to the memo there are significant amount of questions like giving you an example I was just looking at it you have a fence you're asking for a use variance what are your positive

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criterias I don't see any landscaping I know don't see any uh buffering to screen because there has been a neighbor who has been complaining over years about noise about dust on the property

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there is when I'm going to evaluate it for a use variance why why would the board grant it unless um you know there is some efforts taken by the owner to address some of those concerns >> the owner is willing to put in

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landscaping and buffering especially where the cars are parked between where the cars are parked there's um he intends to install those um bumpers for the where you drive in and stop uh and then put some landscaping between the

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front of the vehicle and along the fence. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> And also to uh landscape the property a little in the front. I mean I I understand that but we have asked for

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testimony on um noise does I mean >> the amount of cars that can be actually accommodated on the amount of vehicles and the size of vehicles the types of vehicles that can be accommodated on the site how they circulate through all that those are

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>> I mean there are question >> I know Alison can can testify to that stuff but I just don't know if she's comfortable testifying to that kind of of >> I I I [clears throat] I I'm a little surprised that the engineer is not

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in attendance at this public hearing. >> Mr. Key indicated that he was going to contact the engineer and resolve all those. >> Yeah, I didn't >> I I have not heard from anyone from the engineer's office. >> Uh I I would ask the uh the chair to uh allow the engineer to resolve all those

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issues that were raised by your engineer. >> We will in fact In fact, if I may, >> he's going to appear and testify before us, right? >> I would uh ask you to carry it so that he can appear. >> Yeah. Well, we can put the planning testimony on tonight and then we can

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have >> I'm sorry. I I would hold off from the planning testimony only because there are some questions that have been raised pertaining to uh how Allison would

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testify on the positive criteria. Unless that is presented and testified, I don't think she's in a position to commend or testify. She would have to come back again and provide. I would say hold off

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from planning testimony as well. Have the engineer come in testify and then she can sum up the use varants because again it's a split zone property residential within non-residential zone

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um especially we have never allowed residential zones in ED1 and now you have commercial in residential zone. She needs to provide a solid testimony to satisfy all the criteria. I would that

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would be my recommendation. Uh Allison, tell me if I'm wrong. >> It it does sound like we need to address particularly the impacts landscaping fencing more clearly >> so that I can say that there is no negative impact.

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>> Okay. Mr. Granad, I mean even your planner I guess is giving suggestion that we uh go by uh what Mr. want must what Miss Swan has asked and have the have the engineer testify and then of course then of course your planner close that

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>> the chair to carry this. >> We'll certainly do that sir. We're going to find a date that I don't >> Mr. Granetta we'll be happy to uh have a conversation with your engineer prior to

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the hearing. So please have him reach out to us and uh maybe we can We did. >> Yeah, we could have even if required a quick technical review meeting, a virtual one uh before he comes in so that when he comes in, he's prepared and

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it helps Allison testify as well. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And just when when he does contact us, probably the best thing to do is to go through uh Miss Porchelli cuz she's good at wrangling everybody and >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Before before we

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end because there was testimony I do have to open up a public portion to see if there's any commentary. This matter is 63-2023Z. The physical location is 1123 Englishtown Road. Anyone here on this matter would wish to be heard. Please

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raise your hand or stand. Okay. This matter is going to be continued. There will be another hearing. But I would ask anybody at the this moment if you're interested now is the time to raise your hand or stand. Seeing not, I'm gonna close the public portion. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> Okay, that's going to be determined. >> Are you gonna assign? >> Here's I have August 6, but I think it's too soon, right? >> What's the date? >> August 6. But that's too soon, correct? To have everything to have a tech meeting and what have you with the engineer?

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>> Right. Okay. So, then we'll have to go to >> Yeah, today. You want to put it on and see if we have to adjourn. Second. >> Okay, hold on one minute. I would ask that it be put on for the sixth in the event that it can't be

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resolved before then then >> I yes and I can do a lot of things as the chair I can't schedule >> you're in charge [laughter] >> and I would ask the board to uh since Mr. Figarero has testified that it's not necessary for him to come back.

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>> Uh he's been subject to to cross-examination uh by the board. I guess that we've asked what we what we wanted. I think it anything else would it wouldn't probably be necessary. I don't see any reason for him to be >> I will appreciate it. That's possible. >> I understand you live out the fact that

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I have to travel >> I understand >> 3,000 miles away. Uh as to the professionals, are you satisfied with the Mr. uh Mr.'s testimony this night? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, he can be excused for the next hearing. All right.

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>> I mean, as long as u Allison is prepared to testify anything what he has testified before in terms of operation, I'm fine with it. >> Okay. Very good. >> We could always arrange to have him appear by Zoom if needed. >> Okay. I I doubt that will be necessary. Do are we going to do August 6th and see what happens?

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>> No, we're going to do September 3rd. September 3rd. >> September 3rd. >> September. >> Mr. Granada. September 3. >> All right. I'll have to check my schedule, but I'll >> Okay. >> I'll let the board know. >> All right. No further notice. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you all for being here this evening. This matter

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>> Thank you very much. >> This matter, if you're uh listening in from home, will be continued on the agenda September 3rd. There will be no further notice. I'm I'm just thinking uh September 3rd,

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>> Labor Day is the 7th this year. It's the last Labor Day is the 7th, so it's going to be before the holiday. >> I'm I'm bringing my granddaughter down to uh SCAD Savannah College of Art and Design over that weekend. >> You can figure out with uh with >> Okay, >> Miss Porchelli on that. Thank you. Thank

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you, Mr. Granada. Thank you. Thank you for tonight. >> All right. >> Okay, let's move along. Uh we're going to do uh >> Shadari, right? >> Yes. Okay. Uh 55-2025Z.

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Uh Shadari Property Group LLC. This is the OG general office zone block 1500 0 lot 2 physical location 3384 highway 9. This is uh for second floor residential

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apartment. Applicant seeking to convert the upstairs use for residential uh seeking major preliminary final site plan with CND variances. David Hillman Equire representing the applicant. Mr. Hillman.

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>> Mr. Chairman David Himlman for the applicant. Pleasure to see you. >> Pleasure to see you as well, sir. We could We have another mic that we can slide over. >> We could slide that over. >> Use the one. >> Oh, yeah. There you go. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Thank you. >> Good evening. Uh,

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I represent the applicant, uh, Sherardi Property Group LLC, and I have a brief opening, Mr. Chairman, and then we'll proceed expeditiously with our witnesses. So, thank you in advance. Uh, as you know, the applicant has applied to this board for uh, final site plan,

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preliminary and final site plan and use variance approval. And for the record, the property identified as block 15,000 lot 2, of course, on your tax map in Old Bridge. And the address is 3384 Route 9 in Old Bridge. Uh, as the chairman

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indicated, the applicant filed an application with the board seeking approval to convert the upstairs unit for residential use at the property. Uh, as your planner has indicated in her memorandum, the property is located in the office general zone district,

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otherwise known as OG1. Uh, the proposed juice, as you know, is not permitted in the OG1 zone. Therefore, a D1 use variance is required under the municipal land use law. Uh there are several also bulk C relief uh items that are required

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and we will address those uh in our uh planning testimony. Just to give a little background u the property was previously zoned R six and is now surrounded by the R six zone. As noted in your planners review memo memo in

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1995, a pre the previous owner sought a use variance to convert the residential dwelling to office use and that variance was granted. Uh the upstairs unit, as you will hear from the applicant, has been vacant since 2022 despite efforts

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to lease the space for office use. You will hear testimony from our real estate expert that the existing layout is more suited for residential use. Uh in addition, we believe the proposed change reflects the current market demand for residential apartments and makes better

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use of the space. Uh as you know from your planner's uh review memorandum, this is a D1 variance and we have to satisfy the requirements under that under the statute under the municipal land use law and as your planner indicated in her memo uh it the site is

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not wouldn't qualify for inherently beneficial. So we must satisfy that the site is particularly suited and you will hear uh from our uh planner accordingly. Uh we also believe that their special reasons can be satisfied uh that the that the property is particularly suited

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for the proposed res residential use on the second floor of the existing building. We think the proposed use will provide an opportunity for affordable rental housing and the applicant believes that the use fundamentally will serve the public good and will promote

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the general welfare. Uh with that, Mr. Chairman, assuming you don't have any questions or your board or your professionals, we can proceed with our first witness. >> Who's the honest? >> Uh can you raise your right hand? Do you swear affirm the testimony you're about to provide is the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

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>> I do. Right. Can you state your name and spell your last speak to the mic? >> Nisha Chadari. >> Spell your last name, please. >> T A U D H A R I. >> Good evening. Uh Dr. Shardy. So, um just for the record, if you could just put

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your address uh on the record so that the board understands that. >> Yep. 21 Christristen Court, Madawan, New Jersey. >> Very good. And what is your affiliation with the with the subject property? >> A property owner, a member of the LLC. >> Okay. Okay. So, you're a member of the

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LLC, correct? Okay. Great. When did uh Sherardi Property Group LLC purchase the property? >> In September of 2022. >> All right. And when you purchased the property, did you understand that the upstairs unit had been previously approved uh for office use under the

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prior R six zoning? >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh what efforts have you made to market the the property for lease for office use? >> Um I got an attorney. I mean, I got a realtor. So, you you hired a real estate uh >> real estate agent to go ahead and lease

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the property upstairs. Yep. >> And when did you when did you retain the real estate a broker? >> Um in September of 2022. >> All right. So, it was it was uh shortly after you bought the property, correct? >> Mhm. >> Okay. And how long has the property been vacant? >> Since 2022.

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>> All right. Are you aware if any prospective tenants have expressed concerns about renting the unit for current office use? So yes, we have had a few applicants and every time there was an applicant, well, some of the times they've always asked that can we

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rent out the space and then can one of our employees also live there in the second unit because there is a full bathroom and we've had to reject it because we know that it's not approved for residential. So we wouldn't want to have the risk of someone staying there

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um inappropriately. So these these would have been companies that would be looking to rent the space but have their employees occupy a portion of the unit. >> Yes. >> Okay, fair enough. Okay. Um now on the other side, have you spoken with any individuals interested in renting the

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unit as a residential apartment? >> Um well, no, I have not personally. >> Okay. Uh but your real estate broker has, correct? Okay. Um, do you think that the well is the the entrance to the upstairs unit, where is that located on the site? >> Uh, behind the building.

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>> Okay. And do you think that that's more appropriate for the residential use since it's not in close proximity to the highway? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, have you had a chance to review the recommendations and outline in uh Mr. Watt's memorandum of July 10th

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with regard to the site plan? >> Yes. And are you generally in agreement with those recommendations and conditions? >> Um, yes. >> Okay, great. You got to speak up. Sorry. >> Sorry. >> Um, okay. Uh, would you like to add any thoughts about why you think uh the

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board should approve this application particularly with regard to uh your position that this may be more suitable for residential use? >> Yes, absolutely. So, as an optometrist, um, I've had the privilege of serving as a preceptor for resident doctors who

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come who complete their clinical rotations at one of my offices in West Orange. And these healthc care professionals rotate through my practices and other practices in the area for approximately 3 to 4 months. And they frequently ask if I know of any

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places that offer temporary short-term housing options. And unfortunately, um, I never had an appropriate place to recommend that's short-term. Um, this unit would help address that need by providing temporary housing for young health care professionals who are here

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solely for their clinical rotations. These residents are hardworking professionals with well ststructured schedules and are in the community for a limited period of time before running uh returning to their home institutions. Because of the size and the layout of the unit, it is not designed to

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accommodate a family. Instead, it is much better suited for a single adult or at most a couple. Its location directly across from public transportation also makes it an ideal option for professionals who commute to hospitals or medical offices, reducing traffic and

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parking demands. I believe this use would not only be compatible with the surrounding neighborhood but also provide a meaningful benefit to the healthcare community in Oldbridge by offering housing for professionals serving patients in our area. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Uh Dr.

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Shardy, uh you have would you like to add anything or you think you've covered everything? >> Um no, I think I covered everything. Okay, >> Mr. Chairman, I have any further questions of Dr. Shardy, but you or your board members or your professionals might. >> Sure. Thank you, Mr. Hillerman. [snorts] Mr. Watt. >> Um, I really don't have any questions

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for uh Dr. Chry. >> Okay, Mr. Daria, you have anything for the doctor? >> I I don't have anything with this application, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay, very good. I'm starting down on my left. >> Um, the only thing I was reading about >> your microphone.

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>> Yeah. Uh, the only thing I was reading about a fence that should be put onto the property line where it belongs, but it was put up in 21 and 24 between 21 and 24. Other than that, I have no other questions. It's a stock uh PVC final

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fencing around the back of the property. >> I'm sure we'll get to that if one of the other witnesses. >> Correct. Okay. Right. >> Thank you, >> Smid. >> Yeah. I just have a question. Is there any cooking facilities in the downstairs where the optometrist is? Because you

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would be adding a kitchen upstairs. So there's not going to be any kitchen or anything downstairs? >> No. No. There's absolutely nothing like that. >> Just go. No. >> Is the downstairs rented also? >> Yes. >> Is the businesses running? >> Yes. >> Thank you.

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There is >> if you are going to help renting out upstairs, you did make a remark that after time they'll move on to other places. >> Mhm. >> So you'll be in the same predicament

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again to get that rented again. Um so once this if got approved then she would be able to keep it rolling. Right. >> Right. once the permission if the permission were granted yes it could be used as as such.

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>> Yes. So the way rotations work is that um there's different hospitals that are affiliated. So there's different residents that come every quarter. So once one person leaves and like whether it be nurses, um resident doctors, whether it be cardiology, optometry, like there's always someone that's like

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rotating every quarter. So when once someone leaves, a new person comes in. >> You're no more. All right. Good. Not to be confused with with transient housing. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Anything else, Mr. Andrew? >> This is only going to be for

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professionals in the medical field. >> Yes. It's not >> Well, I I think the clarif I think >> I think the applicant's testimony is she believes that >> this could be a uh particular use for uh the the medical community that she's had

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been in contact with, but it may not that may not be necessarily limited to that. >> Yeah. The applicant is just saying that because she's a she happens to be optometrist that she's had the opportunity to interface with others in the medical community and she's just

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testifying that she thinks there's a need for this type of housing for those individuals who are either residents or people who are doing rotations. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's who the apartment would be limited to if the board should approve this for a residential purpose. Well, if someone

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wanted to uh have a lease for a year or two, would that [snorts] be acceptable or you just want to keep it for >> Yeah. No, of course. >> Yeah. No, she's just uh the applicant's just saying that uh this is this particular area that she's involved in.

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She's had specific conversations with those in the medical field who may uh have expressed an interest to have a unit like this accessible to the hospital or uh wherever they're working. But absolutely, if the applicant could

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lease it out for a year or two, that would be fine. >> Is your office downstairs? Is are you that's your you're you're the eye doctor that's in the >> Yeah, but I don't do rotations at that office. >> No, no. Yeah, I did. [laughter] >> I just wanted to know if you were the

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eye doctor down there. So, you would be an on the premises landlord, so to speak. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> M, were you going to say something? So I just wanted to clarify that part to the board that you're acting on a use

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variance so that the u owner can rent out or it's an residential unit on the top but it has nothing to do with which professional goes in there. So when the board is reviewing this, this is a

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apartment use that will be permitted on the second floor of a commercial or an office uh building. So you just keep that in mind. How they sell it uh how they rent it uh doesn't matter whether it's short-term or long-term. The use

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that is going to be approved is for an apartment. So this is going to be a mixeduse building and then the use would run with the land. So it I think many many years ago it used to be a residential use. There was a use

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variance at that time because it was a different zone granted to allow office use on this property. But as you all know in the last decade or so offices are like office use is dying slowly. So

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we have been looking at properties how you can alternatively use them and especially this property is tiny and with land uses that support residential um the board could evaluate it for a potential mixeduse building.

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>> Now Mr. chairman, if I could hire your planner, I would. But [laughter] it might be a conflict. Um, >> but I think she succinctly made the point. >> Doctor, is there any way is there uh any way for me to traverse from your offices downstairs into the apartment upstairs?

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>> Um, like you mean go upstairs >> from without going without going outside? No, >> they're totally separate. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And the entrance is into the the rear. >> So So the board would know you're not they're not going to change the footprint of the building if they're going to do anything. Correct. Right. And something's going to we're going to

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have testimony to that. >> No, no change of the footprint and the >> I just want the board to understand what what we're doing here. >> That's a good question. >> So, it's already in it was already situated as an office. Uh probably going back to the chiropractor, I guess, that was there years ago. >> Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

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>> And it was a break room, I guess, or >> Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. That's all I have. >> So, Mr. Swan, what you're saying is that if we approve this, it's a rental property regardless if it's a professional person or not. We're just approving a rental property. Now, we

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talked about is children involved. So, it's a rental property, you'll have to have allow children. >> So, I Yeah, I think what the applicant was saying was that given the configuration of the unit, uh it's

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unlikely that that's to occur, but we cannot, as you know, we could not restrict that. >> Right. Exactly. I was just getting back to Mrs. Gomez's point about fencing and protection. because Highway 9 is right there. >> Right. Right. And I think you'll hear

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from the applicant uh from our engineer, but the fencing I believe uh I believe the majority of that was put in by the Deer Run development right behind >> and to the extent there's any gaps that have to be uh filled in, we the applicant will address that.

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>> Yeah. But you're you rais a good point. >> Thank you. >> Right. And the it's more like a studio. >> Exactly. >> Correct. That's the point. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> You go with your next witness, Mr. Hman. >> Uh Joe, >> uh our next witness is >> I can talk. >> All right. Oh, you can go back, but

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don't don't leave. >> Don't go too. [laughter] >> Don't go anywhere. >> Mr. Chairman, our next witness is uh our engineer, and he has to be sworn in and qualified. >> Raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to truth and nothing but the truth?

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>> I do. >> Can you state your name and spell your last? >> Certainly. Joseph Kashuba, Ko CI UBA, KBA Engineering Services, Manisquan, New Jersey. I am standing in for Mark Lever of East Point, who prepared the plans.

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Uh I've personally reviewed the plans uh as well as uh uh the review letters and I'm testifying in my capacity as an engineer. >> Okay. You're you're certified. I mean, you're licensed in this state and it's current. >> Yes. >> You've testified before many boards. I don't particularly recall you before the

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board here. I have testified from many boards throughout Mammoth and Ocean County. I don't believe I've had the pleasure to testify. >> We'll certainly accept your credentials. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh uh Joe, we have up on the screen uh the site plan

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that was prepared by Mr. Lieieber, which you're going to testify to. But before we get into that, I are there any exhibits that you're going to refer to that are that are otherwise not included in the site plan? >> Uh likely just the site plan. Uh I know there were some photos that were were

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submitted as part of the application but uh my testimony will likely just be the site plan unless the board has particular questions. >> All right. Very good. Okay. So I would ask you to take us through the site plan uh discussing the you know the the existing conditions uh the property

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description. Obviously you review uh the items also in Matt's memorandum of July 14th. So I will turn it over to you. >> Absolutely. Thank you. Uh so we have a a compact lot. It's uh just slightly under2 acres or 8,78

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square ft. Uh it's already fully developed. It contains an existing twostory frame building currently operated as a medical office. Um it has [clears throat] uh uh access to the first floor from the front of the building fronting on Route 9 as east

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side uh and to the second story unit accesses from the rear of the building uh the west side. Um, it is surrounded completely by the deeprun uh um apartments or condos. Uh, thought you were leaving us there for a minute.

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[laughter] >> Uh, features an existing uh paved driveway, parking area, freestanding sign in the front, as well as the fence that surrounds the property. Now, the major the vast majority of the fence is off of the property. The rear prop the rear fencing uh based upon uh historic

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um street views was original and installed by the deep run uh site. Uh the fencing on the sides I believe are were installed by the owner of this property at some point and recently repaired by the current owner. Um I

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believe the location of the fences was chosen given the grading uh concerns, but those fences are uh you know somewhat off the property. So, I know there was a comment about having to relocate those to the property line. Uh, and should the applicant gain approval, obviously, they they don't have the

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right to put it on someone else's property, so it would be relocated if necessary. Um, the the lot the lot is highly constrained uh in that the the pavement is almost uh right up to the property line around the rear, and that's pre-existing. It does have an existing storm water system at the back

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of the property. Uh the property uh slopes from front to rear uh with the uh uh drainage existing drainage system in the rear uh that collects the runoff from the parking lot. Um it's also uh non-conforming with respect to several

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bulk standards which the board planner will get into but uh non-conforming area with front setback, sideyard setback and landscape area ratio. Uh the applicant is proposing as we identified to utilize the second floor apartment as an apartment rather than the office use and

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maintain the first floor medical office. Um there's no building footprint changes. There's no increase in floor area. There's no new impervious coverage. No major grading or earthwork or soil erosion uh proposed from an engineering and site plan perspective. I

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don't really have a whole lot to talk to you about this evening. Um what we are proposing to do is uh restripe the parking lot. It's uh the striping is pretty uh faded um and provide a a better layout with an appropriate uh handicap parking uh handicap accessible

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parking stall. Uh we will be providing 10 parking spaces. As a result uh the parking demand actually reduces as a result of the application. I believe about nine parking stalls are required for all office and the one uh onebedroom unit actually reduces the parking

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demand. So eight parking stalls required 10 are provided. Um we are requesting a waiver for the parking stall size. Uh looking to continue the 9 by8 parking stalls. Uh I know 10x 20 are the standard for the municipality. However

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uh 9 by8 is what exists out there today. It's what's operable. [clears throat] It is recognized by the DP and many uh other agencies as you know standard minimum doll space and allows us to maintain the existing impervious area without having to increase it. So I

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think that waiver is certainly justified. Um access is provided from Route 9. Um we are striping a new stop bar providing a stop sign uh and providing the adequate ADA uh signage. As far as the utilities, the site is

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fully maintained uh or fully serviced by water and sewer. Uh no changes to any utility. Uh stormwater management is already uh u managed on the site and we did submit an aquafer recharge assessment uh that addresses that. Um as

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far as the site lighting, we are proposing to improve the site lighting. Um we are proposing uh 20ft mounted height uh lights where 18 is the maximum. The reason 20 foot was chosen, it just provides a little bit more uniformity. Uh, and the site uh is

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surrounded substantially and you can see that in the uh the planning reports uh as well as the any of the photos substantially by evergreen material. So that the difference in light height between 20 and 18 I don't believe I'll have any detrimental impact uh on the

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neighbor neighboring properties. Uh we did provide a lighting uh design. Uh there was a comment regarding the lighting levels provided at the entrance. Uh and those lighting levels were chosen specifically as DOT uh limits lighting levels to 2FTt candles

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at the property line. Essentially DOT's position is we don't want you to light our roadway. We want to light our roadway. Um those calculations actually discount the two Cobra headlights. There's one just north of the site, one just south of the site. Um, so our calculations are only for the lights

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that we're proposing. I believe there's adequate lighting at the entrance from those existing um, street lights that are on the highway today. Uh, so I don't believe the lighting at the entrance is a concern. I think the board could certainly grant that waiver. Um, we are

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proposing a landscaping package to comply with the uh, ordinance required landscaping in that we're providing 18 shrubs and 14 trees on the property. We're enhancing the buffer at the rear of the property. Uh kind of sc the the deep run fence at the back is, you know,

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not the prettiest. It's been uh it's a little aged. So, we're putting an evergreen screen in front of that uh uh for buffering between the two properties uh as well as providing uh some ornamental trees down the sides as well as shrubs around the building. >> So, uh Joe, just to interrupt you. So

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the the uh that board on board fence my understanding is that's that was installed and owned by your run community to your knowledge. >> Uh the board on board on the sides I it very well could be. It is substantially on their property. I know the applicant indicated that she replaced it recently.

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It was in disrepair. Um and because it's much closer to them than it is to Deep Run. She did repair it. Uh but as far as the ownership, I don't have any specific information that shows who originally installed the fence. >> Okay. Well, there was a comment also in

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Miss Sant's memo that the owner that appear the fence appears to encroach on the neighboring property. >> It's fully on the neighboring property. In fact, the only portion of the fence that's on this property is there's a slight return at the uh southern side where it attaches to the building. Uh

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that's about that's the only part that's on the on the property. And to to further enhance uh that it is actually Deep Runs uh uh fence, uh there's no trespassing signs all around and the trespassing that it's blocking is someone going onto the Deep Run site,

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not coming onto ours. The signs are on the inside when you're on our property. So, for all those reasons, I I think it's likely that it's Deep Run's fence. Uh we just did them a favor and fixed it up. I mean, I guess to the extent that we could verify that, uh, we would we

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don't have an objection relocating the fence, but I don't want to do that unless we can confirm who who originally installed it and owns it. >> I think as part of your compliance review, maybe you can verify that and if it is theirs, then it is theirs. >> Correct. You know, >> and the location, I think, is the most

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appropriate having a little setback from the impervious area. If it's right on the property line, there is such a small setback that it's going to be really confining back there. that matter can be settled should there be an approval. Right. >> Yes. We can we can uh settle that issue

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during compliance. >> Okay. Correct. Uh I'm sorry, Joe. >> Uh there was a comment about existing trees. All of the existing trees that surround the uh project are uh not on the current property. Uh they're all on the deep run uh site. >> So we we

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>> So it doesn't interfere with the new plantation plantings that you are proposing? >> Yeah, I don't believe it should. Um uh obviously there might be some root system there uh for the installation but I don't think any of that would be detrimental to the existing tree cover >> and I think there was also a comment

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about landscaping to the north because the great because of the great change. So you'll look into that, right? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Yeah. >> And we'll we'll submit an updated landscaping plan. >> Yes. Okay. >> It's real easy for me to say yes at

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these meetings because uh it's not my plans. >> [laughter] >> Um, also I wanted to just address the um the uh under the ordinance Mr. Want notes uh chapter 25075 requires mounting

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height not not more than 18 ft. Uh this is on the on the foot handle. Yep. Uh so I assume we'll address that and the plans may have to be revised or seek a waiver on that. >> Uh we can we are requesting the waiver. We think the 20 foot is is appropriate and provides good uh lighting cover, but

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if the board has a substantial concern with that, we can adjust it. But I think as designed, it's appropriate. >> Does it light up the rear where the where >> it does where currently there's only spotlights on the building that it is likely more problematic for the surrounding residential. Uh so the

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lighting design proposed is a more downcast and appropriate light design. >> And the entrance is in the rear, correct? If >> the entrance to the residentials, >> you're going to be the resident. You would be so you would have lighting for >> you'd have better lighting now compared to what exists >> as well as the front of the property for the offices of the doctor.

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>> Correct. >> Fair enough. Okay. Joe, did you cover everything or do you want to >> I believe I did. Uh I I think it's uh you know, as from a site plan perspective, I think we're improving the site. Uh making it better for a residential use there, improving the lighting, providing a little better

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landscaping, but other than that, the site's going to look very much like it does today. Very good. I don't have anything further of our engineer, but chairman and your board members. >> Would the planner speak to what what may be happening uh should be granted inside

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the apartment as far as >> Well, we did submit architectural plans. Is that what you mean? >> Yeah. Is somebody going to testify to that? >> Well, we we submitted the architectural plans, but our architect is not here, but we can >> Okay. >> We're pretty much proposing >> I reviewed the architectural plans.

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There is no structural change on the second floor. Everything remains the same. Correct. >> Uh in fact, it's almost like the layout is conducive to a residential unit, a smaller residential unit. >> Correct. I'm good then. >> Yeah. >> Uh

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>> I have no sir. >> I am >> I have no further questions. >> I do not, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. And Mr. Want, >> I have no further question. >> Start on my left on the deis. How is the home heated? >> That is a great question. That I do not

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know. >> You don't know how it's heated. >> What is it? >> Oh, it's it's central air. >> Uh I'm hearing central air. Is it >> which is forced hot air? >> Gas or electric?

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>> It's gas. >> Yeah, it sounds like gas furnace. >> I see. Any plans for the roof? It seems to be a little weathered and uh are you planning anything in the way of solar panels, things like that? It looks like a perfect home for that. >> It it does. I don't know that we're

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planning that as part of this application. >> Yeah, but >> something certainly to think about. >> The applicant just address that quickly if you want, Mr. Chairman. >> Sure. She's still under under. >> You can sit. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah, in the next uh year or two, I'm trying to see if we could get solar

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panels or something like that on the roof. um and replacing the roof, especially because of the storm. So, yep. >> I would recommend you replace the roof before you do that. >> Well, you Well, you wouldn't. The solar company wouldn't allow that. >> Right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> Uh okay, we were moving up the line. Uh Mr. Rizzo, no, Mrs. Andrew. >> No, no, >> we're good, Mr. Chairman, with this. >> We're good. >> Okay, great. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, sir. Uh, Jacob. >> Uh, our next witness is our real estate

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uh expert who's going to testify on the uh the market issues related to the unit. And uh I guess Jacob, we'd have to have you sworn in and uh >> raise your right hand. You swear affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> And can you state your name and spell your last?

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>> Uh Jacob Koticov. K H O D A K O V. Uh good evening. Uh Jacob, can you just briefly provide your educational background and experience in real estate uh for the board? >> Yeah, I have a a bachelor's degree in psychology and I've been a real estate

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agent for a little over eight years. >> Very good. And do you hold a salesperson or broker's license? >> Yes, I have a broker's license. >> And your license is active? >> Yes, >> correct. Uh and you're affiliated with which brokerage firm? >> Uh Signature Realy.

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>> Okay. and signature has been retained by the applicant shari. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um and that is to market the uh and rent the second fourth of property for office use. Correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um and you're affiliated with

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Signature and I presume you have offices in central New Jersey and you serve clients in in the overage area. Is that correct? >> Yes, correct. >> Okay. Um you're aware of the application before the board that we're seeking to convert uh the upstairs unit for residential. Correct? >> Yes.

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>> Okay. Uh did you uh were you were you involved and responsible for marketing the upstairs unit for the commercial office? >> Yes, I was. uh if you could briefly go over uh sort of your assessment of the current market

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conditions and uh what your experience has been and feedback with prospective tenants who have looked into this unit for uh office or commercial use. >> Yes. Okay. >> So the office market has changed significantly in recent years as remote

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work has become more common um and also to lower overhead. Um so remote and hybrid work have reduced demand for traditional office space especially smaller office spaces. Um businesses are prioriti prioritizing flexibility and

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lower occupancy costs. Uh based on my marketing um based on my experience marketing this property there is very limited demand for this type of office layout. >> Okay. And um just turning to the to the issue before the board. Do you think

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residential use might be more appropriate for this particular unit and why? >> Yes, because it already uh resembles an apartment because it has two separate rooms and also has a full bathroom. >> Okay. >> Um and um just to just to confirm what

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the applicant said, you were retained I think approximately your signature was retained in September of 2022. Is that correct? >> Uh I was retained in 2024. So, it's been on the market for about 542 days with me. >> Okay, fair enough. Okay, fine. All right. >> Uh, and obviously it's been vacant since

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then. >> Vacant. Yeah. >> Okay, great. >> Do you believe that this would be a public benefit should the board approve the relief sought this evening? >> Yes. Um, approval of the variance would eliminate a long-term vacancy. Um, the

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property would be occupied, maintained, and put to productive use. Uh the proposed change reflects current market demand and makes better use of the space. >> Very good. Okay. Uh would you like to add anything else or you think you've covered it? >> No, I think I've covered. >> Okay, great. Mr. Chairman, I don't have

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anything further down the professionals first. >> No questions. >> No questions. >> Starting over here. >> What was the reasoning for having the upstairs from the beginning?

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>> Say it again. What was your reasoning with the real estate for the upstairs from the beginning of the purchase? [snorts] >> Well, the building was the building was uh >> constructed in that way and our client

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or the applicant purchased it in 2022, but the building was built well before that. >> Right. So, what intention did you have for the upstairs? downstairs we see is a an I company. And

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what was your intentions for upstairs? >> So I was hired to lease it out to a office use. >> Office use. >> Yeah, >> I see. >> Yeah. >> And that didn't work out. >> It didn't work out. >> I see. Okay. Thank you. >> Right. >> Rizzo.

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>> Uh, no. He explained everything well. >> This is Andrew. >> Okay. >> How long did you have it on the market? >> 542 days. How many people came looked at it? >> Approximately 10. 8 to 10 groups total

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>> and they didn't want it because of >> So, one of the reasons was the overall layout. Um, one of the particular people that I did the showing for was that they didn't want the full bath. It was not necessary for them to have the full bath. Um, so a lot of it wasn't being

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able to be utilized as office space. So it wasn't really fit for their, you know, business plan. That was the most common feedback, the overall layout. >> It's hard to find a fit for the space. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Jacob. Thank you, Mr.

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Chairman. Uh, our last witness is our planner. >> The best for last. >> No, >> good evening. >> Uh, we'd have to have Colleen SW. Uh, do you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to provide is the whole truth and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Can you state your name and spell your

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last? >> Colleen Mcgherk, MCG gu. >> Uh, good evening. Uh, if you could just uh, briefly go over your professional qualifications and confirm that your planning license is active.

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>> Yes. Uh, I am a member of AICP and my planner's license is current. My company is Swick, Stall, and Mgherk, which was started in 2019. I have since appeared before multiple boards throughout New Jersey, including this board. >> Yes, we'll take we recognize Miss

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Mcgherk and her expertise, and we accept her. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, M. Mgherk, if you would, I know you've had an opportunity to review the application and the site, and if you would give us uh an overview of your planning justification, particularly with

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[snorts] regard to the D1 use variance and the criteria that must be satisfied under the municipal land use law, and also I know you've reviewed the current uh zoning and the uh master plan. So, I will turn the microphone over to you.

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Thank you. Thank you. So, the subject property is located at 3384 Route 9, lot 15,000, lot 2. The lot is 8,78 ft and is developed with a 14,64 ft two-story office building and a paved

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parking lot containing 10 parking stalls. It is located within the OG1 office general zoning district. The property was previously zoned R six and is surrounded by the R six zone. In 1995, a previous owner sought a use variance to convert the residential

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dwelling to office use and the variance was granted. The zone was changed from R six to OG1 sometime between 2005 and 2013. The applicant is proposing to convert the existing second floor vacant office space back to residential, specifically

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a one-bedroom unit, and to retain the first floor medical space. The second floor has been vacant as we know since 2022 and the owner has been able to un has been unable to find a tenant since. Residential is in demand and much needed in this area and the region especially

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affordable and different types of residential other than single family dwellings which is the dominant type of residence in Oldbridge. The property is surrounded by deep run a residential townhouse development to the northwest and south which is in the R six zone. Further to the north is the Deep Run

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strip mall and beyond that at Cindy Street is a large residential neighborhood with dozens of single family dwellings which back up to Route 9. Across N Route 9 to the east are a variety of office buildings, a funeral home, and a commuter parking lot. In

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order to grant uh a D1 use variance, it must be shown that such variance can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and will not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the zone plan and zoning ordinance. There are sufficient special reasons for granting of a use variance

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under two broad circumstances. When the refusal to allow the project would impose on the applicant an undue hardship. When a proposed project carries out a purpose of zoning. This application advances several purposes of the municipal land use law. Purpose A to

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encourage municipal action to guide the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner which will promote public health, safety, morals, and general welfare. To repurpose a portion of the existing building for a residential apartment, a use that it was originally zoned and

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used for and is surrounded by is appropriate and will benefit the general welfare by providing additional housing and ensuring that the property is wellmaintained and the structure is fully occupied. Purpose E to promote the establishment of appropriate population

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densities and concentrations that will contribute to the well-being of the neighborhoods, community, and regions and preservation of the environment. This is a one-bedroom apartment surrounded by the R six zone which requires 6,500 square ft for a single

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family dwelling and our lot has 8,78. So it is a similar uh size to the surrounding area and the proposed size is more than sufficient whereas the minimum required lot size in the OG1 zone is 1 acre.

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Purpose G to provide sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of agricultural, residential, recreational, commercial, and industrial uses and open space, both public and private, according to their respective environmental requirements in order to meet the needs of all New Jersey

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citizens. The applicant is proposing to convert the existing secondstory office back to a residential use. The existing office has been vacant and the owner has been unable to rent the space, so the existing building is underutilized. The residential apartment will have little

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to no negative impact on the surrounding residential and commu and commercial neighborhood. The existing surrounding uses will be able to function as intended in their respective zones. According to Medici versus uh BPR company, quote, the first prong of the

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negative criteria requires that the variance can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good. In this respect, the statutory focus is on the variance's effect on the surrounding properties. The board of adjustment must evaluate the impact of the proposed use variance upon the

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adjacent properties and determine whether or not it will cause such damage to the character of the neighborhood as to constitute substantial detriment to the public good. It is my professional opinion that there will be no negative impact on the character of the neighborhood or the adjacent residential

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uses and nearby commercial uses. The second prong that must be proven is that the proposed use does not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the zone plan and zoning ordinance. The 2022 master plan states, quote, "With changing market trends and

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development needs, the structure of the current general office zones shall be evaluated for alternative non-residential uses." The OG zones were once where small, moderate, and large office plexes were to be developed due to the ease of access to highways and

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commuter access points. Few of the zones, however, were ever developed with office use. While this does not completely align with what we are proposing, a mixeduse with residential, it clearly indicates that there is a significant reduction in the demand for office space which supports our

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application and the applicant's inability to fill the second floor space with a tenant resulting in the underutilization of the property. The property was originally designed for residential and we are requesting that it be permitted to go back to that use. There is adequate parking,

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uh, landscaping and lighting as shown. There is significant amount of residential on Route 9. It just does not front on Route 9. The rear of the single family dwellings on Feder uh Frederick Drive back up to Route 9, as does a portion of Deep Run, which borders this property.

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Also, the 2020 master plan re-exam states that the majority of Oldbridge housing stock is single family dwellings, 71.2%. This indicates a lack of diversity in housing options, which this unit can provide. It also supports the principles of smart growth by providing residential

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unit within a walkable community with available goods, services, public transportation and is therefore aligned with the state development redevelopment plan. [clears throat] Also, one of the stated goals of the 2011 master plan land use element quote to provide a diverse supply of desirable

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housing stock that meets the needs of households of various age groups, income levels, sizes, and compositions. And the 2020 master plan redevelopment states, quote, presents an opportunity to advance state plan goals of providing

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adequate housing at a reasonable cost, specifically affordable housing, veterans housing, or housing for victims of storm damage." While we are not proposing affordable housing, we are proposing a different type of housing which is more affordable than other types of housing such as single family

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dwellings or town homes. The granting of this use variance would not be contrary to sound zoning principles or planning. It is in fact better planning to permit the residential use since this lot is severely undersized for the OG1 zone which requires a minimum of 1 acre. So a

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less intense use is more appropriate. It is my professional opinion that this use fits in with the surrounding community and the benefits outweigh any detriments. The proposed residential apartment promotes the purposes of the MLU well, occurs on a site that is particularly suited for the use, acres

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no significant detriment to the public good, and does not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the zone plan and zoning ordinance. >> Thank you, Miss Mcgherk, for that comprehensive and well-reasoned outline. Do you have anything else to add or have you >> I don't know if you wanted me to still

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address any of the pre-existing non-conforming variances. I mean, there was a use variance granted. I don't know if any of them were subsumed under that plan, but they are pre-existing and they really can't be altered lot area with

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front yard setback, etc. >> And we're not we're not and we're not exacerbating them. Correct. >> We are not. >> Okay, fair enough. Mr. One, I don't know if you would want us to provide more detail. >> No, no, because the existing nonconformities have been there forever and plus you're

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asking for a use variance. So any of the bulks are subsumed. So I I would need no more uh additional testimony. I'm good. I don't have any questions either. >> The design waiverss would be subsumed too as well. >> You have to grant. Yes, but they will be

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subsumed too. >> Oh, you have anything else for the planner? >> No, Mr. Dari, >> I don't have anything, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. >> Thank you. A number of times you said go back to residential. When was it

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>> was zoned R [snorts] six? >> It when it was zoned R six uh back well in 1995 when they got the use it had been a residential use plus it was zoned R six. >> I see >> up until I couldn't quite pinpoint but 2006.

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>> Okay. Thank you. >> No, I'm good. >> Sanders. I'm >> good. And obviously when you said go back to residential use, you didn't mean the entire property. You meant just the second floor. >> You meant just the second floor. >> Yes. Correct. Okay. Just to make that clear.

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>> Any further witnesses? >> No, Mr. Chairman. Uh I presume you'll open it up to the public, but I don't have any further witnesses. >> Okay. Uh three. We have uh six seated members. >> Correct. All right. >> I'm going to open this matter up to the

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public. This is 55-205Z. Physical location here is 3384 Highway 9 for a second floor residential apartment. There's no new construction. It would be same footprint and different use on the

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second floor. Anyone here want to be heard? Please raise your hand or stand. I think we just have a room of other applicants and professionals, so I don't think anybody's going to weigh in on this. I'm going to close the public portion. Final comments. Uh, Mr. Chairman, first of all, thank you

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for the opportunity to present the application. I also want to thank your planner, Vina Sant. I I was very helpful in crystallizing the issues in her memorandum, and we tried to address all those. This is a pretty unusual situation where you had a prior approval

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uh back in 1995 to convert uh then to office use. But as Mr. Jan said, the world has changed since then. uh 1995 I don't think people were were working remotely from their homes uh via

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computer at least I wasn't uh and uh I think the applicant did address uh the technical issues and support for the variance particularly on site suitability you heard from our real estate uh salesperson and the applicant that we've made great efforts to try and

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lease this property uh and we think the the site is particularly suited for the upstairs unit to to go back to residential uh use and we we think that overall it's a public benefit to the community in Obridge because it's really a studio

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apartment and quite frankly there's probably a need for individuals whether it be as the applicant indicated those who may uh be in transition in the medical field or it doesn't have to be limited to that. She was just citing that as an example of a of a of a sector

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of the population who might benefit from renting this studio. So, with that said, I would ask that the board favorably uh consider this application. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, uh, Mr. Himman. I'm just going to ask the board if there's any final comments or questions that they would like to make, and I'll start on my

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>> none coming up. >> Nothing. >> Counselor, anything? >> Nothing for me. Yeah, this is an odd situation because the there's spots along Route 9, not only in Old Bridge, but another where these little homes

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were. Uh, and that's what was there. I don't remember when uh what's the Deep Water was built up over there. >> Debun, I'm sorry. Uh >> oh, I think that's >> 80s. >> I think it may be the late '7s, >> was it? Okay. And and I'm assuming

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whoever the owner of the property was then probably got tired of living there and wanted to change it over to where they could benefit by still holding the real estate. So I don't find it that unusual. There's residences right in their backyard. Uh so I don't find that uncommon. It does present a nice little

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uh parcel I guess for a single person uh andor perhaps a couple uh for usage for probably a year or two or something. and they may may move on and someone else would be uh I I respect the real estate agents uh uh testimony. I think he was

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forthright and I don't really think there is uh those opportunities for small offices anymore. >> I agree. >> So I I would stand behind behind the application and we'll see how the vote goes if that's what you want. >> Uh this will be for D1. Uh

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so it's going to be for major preliminary final site plan with the CN C andd variance all in one right one vote. Okay everybody understand? >> Someone interested in in moving this in favor of the D1 and all the others.

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>> Is there a second? >> Andrew. >> Roll call please. >> Miss Andrews. >> Yes. >> Miss Gomez. >> Yes. >> Mr. Iso. >> Yes. >> Mr. Scott. >> Yes. Miss Penelli. >> Yes. Chairman Sullivan. >> Yeah. I'd rather see it used than not

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used. So my my vote is yes. >> Mr. Chairman, members of the board, thank you so much for your consideration and we hope to move forward and get the once we deal with resolution compliance. Uh we will then hopefully be successful in our efforts. Thank you. >> Very good. Thank you and your professionals. I know you're going to

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have another one. I think in uh fairness, could we take a fiveminute break? >> I was going to suggest that. >> Very good. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you, Mr. Hmlin. We stand in recess. 5 minutes. All right, we've returned from recess. I'd ask for a roll call, please.

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>> Let me >> here. >> Miss Andrews >> present. Sit. >> Miss Gomez >> here. >> Mr. Iso >> here. >> Mr. Scogno >> here. Miss >> Spanelli. >> Yes. >> Chairman Sullivan >> here.

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Councelor, let me read the last one in for tonight. >> Mr. Chairman, good evening again. >> 23- 23-20 25Z BJ's Wholesale Club. >> This is uh CR Regional Commercial

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Shopping. It's block 4185, lot 2.11, physical location, 107 US Highway 9. major. They're seeking major preliminary and final site plan with CND variants. The applicant proposes the addition of external fuel dispensers for automobiles

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with with a kiosk, lighted canopies, and a reconfigured parking and driving aisles in addition to the installation of a new pylon sign. David Himlman representing >> uh Mr. Chairman, David Himlman for the applicant. Good evening again. Um as you indicated, Mr. Chairman, I'm here on

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behalf of BJ's Wholesale Club and we're here on uh for uh preliminary major final site plan and DU variance and several bulk variance approvals and you identified the property at 10000 US Highway Route 9, of course, here in

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Oldbridge. For the record, the property is located in the regional commercial shopping center district, which permits conditional use of gas stations. The site is currently improved with a BJ's wholesale club, which as you know is a permitted use. The applicant is proposing to add six automobile fuel

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dispensers with a with a kiosk. There will be a 12 uh drive lanes uh covered by the canopy. A portion of the parking lot will be reconfigured to accommodate fuel dispensers and provide safe and on-site vehicle circulation. uh the the the uh the devariances relate

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to the conditional uh devariance as set forth in section 250 41G of your ordinance. And since we can't satisfy one or more of those conditions, it triggers the D3 conditional use variance. And we also seek a D4 uh use

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variance for four area ratio. There are numerous bulk C variance relief which Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to go through all of those because that'll be testified uh by our engineer and planner. Uh just for the record, the applicant had two TRC meetings with his

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staff and uh your board engineer from environmental resolutions and there and his uh his team and uh we've worked through extensive uh issues and we've had two review memos from ERRI. So,

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we're hopeful uh Mr. chairman to be able to get through the testimony uh based on the fact that this has had extensive review. Uh we have uh several witnesses uh here tonight. Uh we have engineering, traffic and planning. So with that, I

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would ask unless you or Mr. You or your board members or your professionals have any questions, we can proceed with our first witness. >> Please do. >> Okay. Uh, Richard. Oh, we'd have to have our engineer uh, Richard Banak uh, sworn and qualified. >> Can you swear affirm that the testimony

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you're about to provide is the whole truth and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> All right. State your name and spell your last. >> Richard Proanic. P as in Peter. R O C A N I K. >> Good evening. Uh, Mr. Proanic. Can you just give a brief description of your professional qualifications and confirm

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that your license is active so we can have you qualified as a civil engineer? >> Sure. Uh, I have a bachelor's of science from NJIT, 20 years of relevant design experience. I've testified in front of many boards similar to yours approximately 125 times. My license is

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valid and in good standing. I've appeared in front of the planning board um in town twice. >> Accept his credentials and expertise. >> Thank you. U Mr. Chairman, uh, if you would briefly uh, before we get into your testimony, are there any exhibits that you're going to refer to that have

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not been submitted as part of the application? Yes, we have four to present this evening. >> Okay. And they they were already provided to Moren, so we have those. Okay. Very good. >> Just let me know which ones you want to >> Yeah. As we testify, too. Yes. >> It's the overall site render will be the

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first one I'm I'll use. >> Very good. So Richard, if you would take us through the overall site plan, uh discussing the various as you go through >> components of the application as it relates to uh the site layout and then

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we can go through obviously the review memorandums and testimony that may be required. So I will turn the microphone over to you. >> Wonderful. Um thank you. Um I would like to first uh refer to our overall site plan render. Uh it has today's date uh

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July 16th, 2026 and it's prepared by my office uh Penonian Associates. >> That's just a colored version of the site plan. Correct. >> It's a Yes, it's a colorized version of the surface features overlaid on an aerial. Um aerial is the only thing that

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wasn't previously provided to the board in the submission package. Uh what you see in terms of proposed is a compilation of information throughout the plan set. A A1 >> A1. Yes. [snorts] Uh I'd like to just first by start

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explaining the the general site uh to to the board. Um, it's 107 US Highway 9, Township of Old Bridge, block 4185, lot 2.11. It's approximately 9 acres and located within the regional commercial CR district. It fronts along Route 9 to

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its west, Downing Street, a municipal road to the south, and it's bisected by MTO Way uh private roadway. Um, the surrounding area is generally consistent with all with the a similar type of commercial uses. Um to the east is the BJ's Wholesale. Uh to the west is Route

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9. Opposite of Route 9 is Oldbridge Gateway and Old Bridge Square Shopping Centers. To the north, Extra Space Self Storage, and then to the south, Amboy Bank, and beyond that, the Old Bridge Shopping Plaza. Uh [snorts] currently on the site exists One BJ's Wholesale Club

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and is approximately 100,000 square ft. The site is accessed from Downing Street. Um and then you turn left or right depending which way you're coming from into Maltto Way. Um what I would like to just point out to the board is

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the existing MTOA way as it traverses through our site both to the north and the south will remain untouched and continue to operate as it does today. Uh the space directly to the left or to the to the west um is uniquely situated for this for somewhat of an out parcel type

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of development. Um and it complements the proposed the existing building. Um and at no point do we anticipate any potential conflicts between the the fueling station tenants and the customers to the fueling to the to the BJS. The fueling station itself has six

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locations. Uh six pumps um there's um dispensers on each side of the pump uh and three underground storage tanks. Uh the accessory use to the building is located within the front yard of the BJS

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uh which is a variance. Um in terms of operations, um we the the hours Monday through Saturday 6:30 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. and then on Sundays 6:30 a.m. to 900 p.m. So on Sundays we'll be closing a little bit early.

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Um there are three employees uh that will that work at the fueling station. Uh in terms of the solid waste, uh we don't expect anything more than a typical trash can inside and then that trash will be brought back into the

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store um nightly as the shifts end. [snorts] The canopy itself uh has a proposed height of 17 where for accessory structures 15 is permitted. Uh this will be a variance. uh the 14 ft 14 ft height clearance under the canopy um exceeds

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the 13.5 ASHTTO design vehicle height for tractor trailers which is the largest maximum vehicle height. So at no point would we ever expect to have a truck um hit the canopy. Uh there is a dedicated

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um delivery area for the the tanks with the product. Uh so when deliveries do occur, it will be outside of the typical traffic patterns. All stalls will be 10 ft by 18. Uh and

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two ADA spaces are provided um specifically for the use of the fueling station. Uh we are requesting a variance for parking. We have a deficit of 310 spaces. Uh the site as it exists today is already under

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parked. Um where 670 are required, 440 are proposed. Uh and then with the proposed development um we are required to provide an additional three spaces uh for the employees per ordinance. Uh and we're losing a total we have a total net

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loss of 80 spaces. Although the ordinance is not met, our traffic engineer will will speak to that that variance in a bit more detail relying on the IT parking generation manual uh which has become an industry standard. Uh the plans do not depict any EV

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parking or charging stations. Uh we are willing we will meet the the state standards but would ask for relief when it comes to the the municipal ordinance. Uh in terms of general pedestrian connectivity, uh there are crosswalks

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from the fueling station across Mleta Way and then anyone who needed to access the the BJ's Wholesale from the fueling station or that side of the parking lot uh would just traverse the parking lot as any other customer. In terms of the generalized landscaping,

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uh there are um certain deficits in terms of trees and plantings. Uh we will um comp we will revise the landscaping plan and be compliant uh through the addition of a couple extra trees and shrubs as outlined by the board engineers review letter.

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In terms of the irrigation for landscaping, uh we are not proposing any irrigation. Um however uh we we do believe uh an alternative uh solution can be provided that would ensure the growth um of of the trees. Um the materials being planted are either

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native or naturalized meaning they are tolerant to this climate. Uh we will install water bags until they take root. Uh and then we are willing to bond those trees as part of the maintenance bonds for 2 years. So in short, if something happens in those two years, the

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developer will be obligated to replace those trees under that bond. In terms of site lighting, uh we are proposing nine fixtures 25 ft in height. Uh the height is compliant. Uh we do request one waiver uh in terms of the

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light pole spacing. It's per the ordinance in which um it it requires us to provide one pole for four times the height of the light pole. So we have a 25 ft light mounting height. So the ordinance requirement would be a spacing of the light poles every 100 ft. Uh

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we're not able to accomplish that because of the underground um storage tanks for the product. Um but if you take a closer look at the photoometrics we provided uh we do provide general adequate lighting in that area. Um so we

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do not necessarily meet the spacing but I think we do meet the overall intent to provide uh enough lighting for for safety. Uh one other thing we should be note is that when we were uh preparing the phototrics we did not take into account

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any of the existing lighting on site. So the phototrics can be a bit deceiving uh when certain uh foot candle levels drop to 2.3 within Mleta and the surrounding parking lot areas. Um in the real scenario um the existing lights would be

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on and would provide at least the same minimum lighting levels as they do today. In terms of storm water management, uh we are reducing the impervious coverage by approximately 920 square ft. Uh the drainage patterns are maintained.

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There's no increase in runoff nor is there an increase in the peak flows for the storm water. uh we will um work with your engineer's office to demonstrate that at no point in time the existing hydrograph exceeds the proposed

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hydrograph which is one of the methods to accomplish the the quantity element of of the stormter management regulations. Uh briefly in terms of utilities uh we are proposing a new water service from Route 9. um right away uh JCPNL electric

412
02:07:23.280 --> 02:07:39.119
service from Route 9 right away. Uh the telephone and communications will come from the building and then we do provide um a [snorts] bathroom within the the small building under the canopy and that sanitary will be directed back to the

413
02:07:39.119 --> 02:08:04.400
the BJ's um wholesale store. Um because of the elevations, a a small lift station will be needed. Uh and that is um shown on the plans as well. I would now like to move over to a different exhibit.

414
02:08:04.400 --> 02:08:20.719
Um, this was previously provided to the board as part of our initial submission package. Uh, it is just the elevations of the canopies. >> Did you would you like me to mark this? just mark it as A2 since you're

415
02:08:20.719 --> 02:08:38.159
>> A2. >> Mhm. >> And you said it's the elevations. >> Yeah, it was part of the original package. Uh it's entitled uh retail gas station concept elevation uh drawing name number exhibit dated

416
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April 23rd, 2026. We are seeking a variance for for for some signage um on our canopy. We're proposing a BJ's gas and the the price the digital price screen on two sides on

417
02:09:07.040 --> 02:09:23.280
the two long sides. Uh, and then a small BJ's gas identifier on one of the short ends. Um, the the reason we're we're proposing three where two is typically allowed because we're on a corner uh is cuz we want uh visibility from both

418
02:09:23.280 --> 02:09:49.480
sides of Route 9 and the parking lot. Um the current um application [snorts] doesn't provide any wayfinding signage. Uh there is ordinance requirements. Uh any future wayfinding signage will be compliant with um with the municipal ordinance.

419
02:10:04.880 --> 02:10:22.079
I would like to introduce a third exhibit. Um it is entitled fire apparatus maneuverability uh dated today uh July 16th 2026 as prepared by by my office. Um the board has not yet

420
02:10:22.079 --> 02:10:38.079
seen this. Um on our initial submission, we we provided an apparatus maneuverability. Um but it was with the wrong fire engine. Uh it was not the the township's largest. Uh so did want to provide the board with the benefit of

421
02:10:38.079 --> 02:10:55.280
seeing that the old bridge's largest apparatus can safely maneuver the site. Um we did get this vehicle sizing and and specifications from the fire official. Um, and just wanted to demonstrate that we are able to fully maneuver the site without any um

422
02:10:55.280 --> 02:11:11.360
conflicts to the to the curbs uh and can easily get in and out onto um the the exiting roadway Downing Street. [clears throat] >> And the fire official has reviewed this. >> He has not yet reviewed this. Um yes. So the intent would be to take this plan

423
02:11:11.360 --> 02:11:27.520
and we would just revise we would just slide it into the resubmission package as a replacement to our previous maneuverability study. and we'll comply with whatever recommendations he has. Correct. >> Yes. >> Do we need to mark this? >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> I have it as 83. If you >> Sorry.

424
02:11:27.520 --> 02:11:45.040
>> Thank you. >> Uh [snorts] the the fire official did provide several comment or four comments and I do just want to to run through those really quickly. Safety is very important. Um we did revise the plans for the appropriate apparatus. Uh we do

425
02:11:45.040 --> 02:12:01.199
provide the minimum 20 foot um drive aisle for the apparatus that allows the fire truck to put the riggers down and for um the emergency service um team to safely operate around the vehicle. It's it's a state requirement.

426
02:12:01.199 --> 02:12:16.800
Um and no revisions were needed for that. We just further detailed it out to demonstrate compliance. Uh the fire official had several recommendations for pavement markings which we will comply with and also um for for a new hydrant to be located closer to the store uh

427
02:12:16.800 --> 02:12:33.440
which will locate in that northeast corner most likely uh but we will satisfy the fire officials um requirements [snorts] for a hydrant. Uh just briefly in terms of outside agencies, uh Middle Sex County Planning Board, we we seek appro we have

428
02:12:33.440 --> 02:12:49.440
approval, so conservation district, we have approval. The the NJ dot we have a letter of no interest or alumni. [snorts] The MUA has reviewed the plans, but they're not ready to take action formally until the until the board does.

429
02:12:49.440 --> 02:13:06.159
and we will make our resubmission to the fire official addressing all of his comments in addition to making a submission back to the to the township um addressing any and all other comments in the review letter that um your port engineer prepared for us plus any conditions you may impose.

430
02:13:06.159 --> 02:13:22.560
>> Mr. Dger, >> thank you Mr. Chairman. Um our office has prepared uh Dr. We have a joint memo with the Vina's office and and our office. Um we've had multiple uh tax meetings with the applicant. And um the

431
02:13:22.560 --> 02:13:38.719
memo before you tonight dated July 7th is a pretty lengthy memo. It's 19 pages, but uh it's really more like a uh a record of of our review. Uh most of the comments in our memo have been satisfied by the applicant through through the revised plans and the uh multiple

432
02:13:38.719 --> 02:13:55.040
meetings we've had. Um with regard to the irrigation uh that was left as an outstanding comment in our memo, I have had a chance to to discuss you know yet again with the applicants engineer. Uh we don't have an objection to them not providing the irrigation uh

433
02:13:55.040 --> 02:14:10.800
with the stipulation that the applicant will be uh revising their landscaping to be more um uh u drought tolerant plantings and also uh providing watering bags and bonding the plantings uh which is something that they're not required

434
02:14:10.800 --> 02:14:25.840
to do anymore based off of the new bonding laws but they've agreed to bond them so we'll make sure that happens. So I don't have an objection to that. Um, and with regard to the storm water, uh, the the applicant, uh, does comply with, uh, based on the fact that they they actually have a slight reduction in

435
02:14:25.840 --> 02:14:41.440
impervious coverage. They'll provide the supporting calculations. Um, I'm confident that that that won't be a problem either. Um, many of the comments, like I said, uh, in our memo, have been satisfied. I don't have any specific, um, questions for the applicants engineer, but I'm happy to

436
02:14:41.440 --> 02:14:57.520
answer any questions the board may have. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Watt. I don't have any questions for the engineer. >> Okay, let me go up the aisle here and see what comes up. [snorts] >> Start on my left. >> I only have one question. The propane tanks that are in the front of the

437
02:14:57.520 --> 02:15:15.920
store, that's going to remain where it is. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes, >> I do have a question, but I don't know if I need to wait or if you can answer. >> You can ask it and I'll let you know if I can answer it. >> I can answer. Um,

438
02:15:15.920 --> 02:15:30.960
with respect to Amboy Bank, I I know the parking lot. So, where how is the flow going to be to get through, I guess, the gas pumps, for instance, for lack of a better analogy. I know the gas pumps at

439
02:15:30.960 --> 02:15:47.280
Costco back up to Route 9 because of where they're located. So, I just I'm just curious how where you're actually entering the gas pumps and where the backup line is going to be. How is that

440
02:15:47.280 --> 02:16:03.599
going to affect the bank or that entrance? Because when you come in, right as you come in, maybe a car or a car and a half in, you're making a left into like where the bank is. And then the next entrance into I guess which would be the overflow parking lot for

441
02:16:03.599 --> 02:16:21.199
BJ's is a little further in. So >> yeah, I I can start to address some of that in our traffic engineer. We'll we'll get more into the technical data. Um but as a vehicle enters into the fueling station area, um they would be turning towards Route 9 or to the to the

442
02:16:21.199 --> 02:16:38.479
left or or west uh um above the to to the north of the the bank. So they would come in past the bank, there's an exit for the fueling station. They pass the exit and then they would turn left into >> so [clears throat] entrance into that auxiliary parking lot, if you will.

443
02:16:38.479 --> 02:16:55.599
>> Yeah. And we have a a dedicated um one-way traffic as a vehicle leaves the fueling station. So the vehicles have to come in in a certain way. It's not the entry from both sides. They have to come in from from the north side. Okay. >> Um and then there is a dedicated right turn and a dedicated left turn to exit

444
02:16:55.599 --> 02:17:10.399
the fueling area. >> Um so this is what we would anticipate to how the fueling station would operate under a a normal condition. Uh we did look at um more of a peak hour or if [snorts] it does get backed up a little bit and our traffic engineer has an

445
02:17:10.399 --> 02:17:26.160
exhibit that that depicts that queuing and what it would look like. So he'll he'll touch into that a little bit more. >> Okay. >> Mr. Scott, >> I'll wait for the traffic engineer. Thank you. >> Mr. is >> satisfied. >> This is Andrew. >> Waiting for the traffic. >> Okay. Oh boy.

446
02:17:26.160 --> 02:17:42.880
>> Will you be changing the inlets and outlets of those the ingress and egress of the two that are available now? >> You're going to block you're going to you're going to be able to get into the bank, but you're but it's not going to allow you to get into the area for the >> I I I don't see a realistic scenario in

447
02:17:42.880 --> 02:17:58.800
which the bank would be blocked. the the queuing would go towards the north towards the self storage. >> I've been to your places before and they are dedicated. You can only come in one way and go out. >> Exactly. One way situation >> oneway traffic in, one way traffic.

448
02:17:58.800 --> 02:18:15.840
>> I'm sure the traffic engineer will speak to that. Okay. Thank you. >> Uh councelor, do you have anything? >> No. >> We good, Mr. Chairman? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Public. We have to open it to the public. >> Oh, you want to you want to have the public question this? >> No. At the end. >> Hi. our traffic uh engineer who everyone

449
02:18:15.840 --> 02:18:31.120
wants to hear from will be next. John, >> as long as he's not going to run out the door. >> Not going to run out the door. >> Okay. >> Can't even run right now. >> Uh what's that? >> Can't even run right now. >> Yeah, he can't. Oh, >> he has the duck. >> That's not good. Uh we will have to have

450
02:18:31.120 --> 02:18:48.800
our traffic engineer uh uh John Cororic qualified and uh sworn in. >> Can you raise your right hand? Do you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to provide is the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Can >> you state your name and spell your last? >> John Cororak. Last name is spelled C O R

451
02:18:48.800 --> 02:19:04.080
A K. >> Thank you, Mr. Cor. Can you briefly describe your professional qualifications and also confirm that your license is good standing in the state of New Jersey so we can qualify? Thank you. Of >> course. So, I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. I

452
02:19:04.080 --> 02:19:19.359
have a bachelor of science in civil engineering from the College of New Jersey. I'm an expert in the field of traffic and transportation engineering. I've prepared over 250 traffic studies for land development applications. I've testified before over 100 boards in the state.

453
02:19:19.359 --> 02:19:36.319
>> You have a current license in the state of New Jersey. >> I do. >> Accept his expert. >> And you're with Stonefield, right? >> Yes. With Stonefield Engineering. >> Great. Okay. So, um I understand you've prepared a uh traffic and parking study which has been submitted as part of the application and I know you've uh had an

454
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opportunity to discuss many of the comments uh that ERRI had set forth in their review memorandums. So, I doubt there'll be any questions for you. not my thing. Uh so if you could briefly go through the f your findings of your

455
02:19:51.920 --> 02:20:07.520
traffic study and also address uh basically the highlights from the ERRI memo, that would be great. Thank you. >> Yeah, of course. So the way that I'd like to break up the testimony, it's kind of into two pieces. One is related to actual traffic impacts, levels of

456
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service at nearby intersections and then the other of course is the on-site circulation queuing and the impact on the parking supply that the proposed uh fueling station has. So the first part is sort of the meat of the traffic study. It includes the traffic counts

457
02:20:23.040 --> 02:20:40.720
that we conducted. Um those are both at MTOA and Downing Street as well as uh Downing Street and Route 9 North. Um, those counts conducted during the typical peak periods, a weekday from 7:00 to 9:00 a.m. uh from 4:00 to 7:00 p.m. and then on a Saturday from 11:00

458
02:20:40.720 --> 02:20:57.040
a.m. to 2:00 p.m. That tends to capture the uh you know both the roadway peaks and the the peak periods of BJ's the fueling station, the general shopping center, um you know, campus if you will that that we're a part of. Um we grow

459
02:20:57.040 --> 02:21:13.280
that traffic volume to future year. Uh there was a a question in the the ERRI letter about our our count dates are a couple years old now the data but our growth that we've applied to it has outpaced the DO's growth that uh that they've been been counting and

460
02:21:13.280 --> 02:21:30.319
observing. So by any measure the count data plus the growth is a conservative measure within our study. Um and and we collect and analyze levels of service at those study sites that we were just talking about. So, say the first one is the traffic signal at um at Mleta and

461
02:21:30.319 --> 02:21:46.319
Downing. So, that is a call it a three-phase traffic signal. If you're on uh Mleta headed northbound, so toward BJ's, you do get that lead left arrow that gets you uh toward Route 9. And then the the southbound traffic once

462
02:21:46.319 --> 02:22:02.240
that lead left arrow is completed, the southbound traffic gets to proceed through. Um and then of course you have your east west downing uh downing street traffic as well. That intersection operates fairly uh you know fairly well all within acceptable levels of service.

463
02:22:02.240 --> 02:22:18.880
Uh what we're seeing typically is a level of service B as in boy for that intersection during the peak periods. Um level service being graded A through F. Uh where we actually don't target A's necessarily. we the a good design level

464
02:22:18.880 --> 02:22:34.800
of service is a generally a C or a D because we're not trying to overbuild the system that's you know essentially providing too many lanes has other uh you know negative effects storm water runoff and the like uh where you know

465
02:22:34.800 --> 02:22:49.600
we'd look for C to D here we're generally operating at level of service B at that traffic signal and then getting on to route 9 north what we're observing uh from our calcul relations and level service uh C to D range for

466
02:22:49.600 --> 02:23:05.760
those driveways. And actually DOT allows driveways up to level service E as in elephant for for approaches to the state highway. Um we then add the traffic associated with BJ's fueling station onto the roadway network, route it

467
02:23:05.760 --> 02:23:20.560
through these intersections. Again, conduct a level of service analysis. Um they generally remain consistent. any specific movement, your delay increase uh is is less than 5 seconds on average. We get a couple movements that go from B

468
02:23:20.560 --> 02:23:37.680
to C or C to D just as a result of crossing a threshold from where we we call one level of service or another, but certainly nothing in the range of uh you know failing condition. We comply with the um the ordinance requirements for you know less than 10% traffic

469
02:23:37.680 --> 02:23:54.319
increase keeping it under uh 0.8 8 volume to capacity as well as no-level service apps. So by and large from a you know call that outside traffic perspective um you know these intersections will continue to operate uh really

470
02:23:54.319 --> 02:24:09.840
functionally as they do today with the inclusion of um you know the fueling station component on the site. So that's the first part of the traffic study. Now, now getting into the actual site layout, how the the traffic flows

471
02:24:09.840 --> 02:24:26.800
through here. And I think that the location of this um you know, this fueling [clears throat] canopy and the the structure itself is ideally suited um to maintain positive traffic flows, you know, through this area. So, um, looking at the overall site, right, MTO

472
02:24:26.800 --> 02:24:42.880
Way cutting directly through the middle of it and really anything on the west is, you know, it's not technically out parcel, but it's very well suited for that out parcel type development. You rarely have cars parking in that area. There's no car corrals in that area.

473
02:24:42.880 --> 02:24:58.560
There's more like you're more likely to see driver's ed classes going on in that parking area than uh than actual um, you know, traffic and parking concerns. So while while most of the BJ's traffic stays on the right side of the east side of Mleta Way, that provides us the

474
02:24:58.560 --> 02:25:14.640
opportunity to uh you know properly route and and queue up the vehicles who want to get gas at the uh at the fueling station. So that traffic coming from MTOA needs to go north of the station either make the left or right turn you

475
02:25:14.640 --> 02:25:30.000
know toward the west toward you know headed toward Route 9 and then wrap down around the south and enter the station facing south to fuel their vehicle at which point when they come out of the fueling station they make a left turn to head back to Mletaway and then they can

476
02:25:30.000 --> 02:25:45.439
go north or south on Mleta Way from there. um within just that that rectangular area, that box, um which I would consider to be like the the main queuing area um on the site. uh we can

477
02:25:45.439 --> 02:26:01.280
get the 12 vehicles at the pumps themselves, another a stack back of two more rows of cars, so that's 36 vehicles. And then also be able to um you know continue to to have the cars start to flow into those you know that

478
02:26:01.280 --> 02:26:17.359
line of three as it as it can wrap around the west side of the site. So just within that that fueling area if you will um you know we're looking at 40 plus vehicles being able to physically fit there and then as you continue to

479
02:26:17.359 --> 02:26:33.920
wrap around um you know the outside drive aisles of the site and you could accommodate up to 60 vehicles in a queue without um hindering you know the flow on Mleta Way. So, this is a lot larger queue than than really we would expect

480
02:26:33.920 --> 02:26:49.760
from a you know BJ's gas station. Um, but I will I will mention that if there was a scenario, you know, we we've seen it when every few years hurricane comes in, everyone wants to to get their gas. If there's a scenario where we really

481
02:26:49.760 --> 02:27:04.720
need to um increase the queueing area, the the way that the drive aisles are aligned in that western section can actually create somewhat of a snake with the queuing area and and increase that

482
02:27:04.720 --> 02:27:23.120
queue to 75, 80, possibly 100 vehicles um through a through a double lane stack. So, a lot of room here in an area that is not very well utilized and a lot of room to accommodate Q without impacting any of the other uses in this

483
02:27:23.120 --> 02:27:39.840
area, whether it's the bank, just MTOA in general, uh the actual BJ store. Um, so really a nicely located fueling station that that has, you know, really good circulation for, you know, a worst case scenario that we certainly don't

484
02:27:39.840 --> 02:27:55.600
anticipate seeing on a daily, weekly, or even monthly basis. >> Do you want to refer to the queueing exhibit or >> um Yeah, we can we can put up the queueing exhibit. It doesn't show the doomsday, but we can can certainly show that. Um, >> that's the queueing exhibit. >> Yeah, queuing exhibit.

485
02:27:55.600 --> 02:28:15.280
>> That was the last one I sent you, Mory. Is that part of your submission? >> I can stand for this. >> You want to point it? >> Sure. >> Yeah. Right. >> Was this part of your submissions?

486
02:28:15.280 --> 02:28:35.439
>> This was an exhibit that was not So, we'll mark this A4, >> right? >> So, so just on the exhibit A4. So that rectangular box area with the call it the the three car deep stack for each pump is in this area. Um and then you

487
02:28:35.439 --> 02:28:51.120
start to have your your drive aisle where the queuing begins then around the western side. Um in you know in a very very very heavy scenario what you could uh do working back from the fueling pumps is utilize all these drives in a

488
02:28:51.120 --> 02:29:07.920
snake pattern. So basically creating an S and that and we saw it say at Chick-fil-A during pandemic when no one could go inside and they're basically using the entirety of the parking lot. Not something I expect to happen, but you know, we we've seen with really

489
02:29:07.920 --> 02:29:24.479
natural disaster type events, hurricanes coming in, we want to be able to make sure that we can accommodate everyone without, you know, spilling into the other other roadways and certainly not to Route 9. >> Great. Do you want to add anything else or?

490
02:29:24.479 --> 02:29:41.840
>> Yeah, just the last piece on the parking since we do have a variance toward the parking. Um, the site currently operates with a variance where the the 670 are required. There's 440 today and we're coming down to 360 parking spaces.

491
02:29:41.840 --> 02:29:58.479
Um, you know, ultimately, you know, this is a site that in this area certainly doesn't uh doesn't generate that parking demand on that the western side. Um, the elimination of about 80 spaces in that area has no material effect on, you know, what the the patrons of BJs are

492
02:29:58.479 --> 02:30:14.720
doing. And I I don't like to pick at ordinances, but it's a it's a very strict parking requirement, especially for this use, where it's it's one space per 150 square ft, where um you know, within the the parking generation manual

493
02:30:14.720 --> 02:30:31.040
from it, what they would forecast for a discount club is one spa, one vehicle per every 350 square ft. So there's uh it's over twice as much parking as 85th percentile it peak demand. So it's um

494
02:30:31.040 --> 02:30:47.760
it's no surprise that we see this portion of the lot empty. Um even with the current deficit in parking and um you know taking away those 80 or so spaces does not have a material impact on on the BJ store operation.

495
02:30:47.760 --> 02:31:05.040
>> And you've spoken with ERI about this correct? >> Yes. Okay. All right. Uh, did you want to add anything else or you think you've covered everything? >> Um, I think I've covered everything. If you know if there's there's any specifics within in the review letter,

496
02:31:05.040 --> 02:31:20.369
you know, through a resubmission, happy to happy to do so. We've worked with RRI's office on a number of projects recently and gotten to know them very well. So, >> we're going to find out if there's anything else. We are Mr. Dari.

497
02:31:20.369 --> 02:31:35.520
[laughter] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, similar to what, you know, the engineer's testimony, we've had multiple meetings and and conversations about this this application with the with the applicants traffic engineer. Um, a majority or I'd say a large portion of our discussions

498
02:31:35.520 --> 02:31:50.479
focused really on the traffic aspects and the uh really particularly the operations and queuing. uh and we've been able to to arrive at at what you see this evening as as sort of a joint effort between our office uh Vina's

499
02:31:50.479 --> 02:32:07.840
office and the applicant. Um the with regards to the parking and then so by [clears throat] that I mean that we're satisfied with what the applicant's proposing with regard to the operational aspects of the of the gas station. Um, with regard to the parking, uh, I I would tend to agree with the applicant's

500
02:32:07.840 --> 02:32:23.359
testimony with, uh, that our ordinance, uh, and I was just talking to Vina about, uh, about possibly making some updates to our ordinance with regard to things like the parking, uh, because one for every 150 ft is is a little bit, uh, excessive for, uh, retail in general

501
02:32:23.359 --> 02:32:38.720
really. Uh but especially when you talk about big box retail and and we've all been in these discount um I'm not discount these uh shopping clubs where [clears throat] really the the actual product takes up a good portion of the space uh and then you really don't get

502
02:32:38.720 --> 02:32:55.680
that many people coming in all at once and that's evidenced by the fact that when you look at the aerial you'll see that you know majority of of this uh western parking lot is is empty and it's empty all the time because I think the it probably is a better um uh meter for

503
02:32:55.680 --> 02:33:11.600
for what kind of parking demand there is here. You know, one for every 300 or 350 is probably is realistic for a wholesale club as opposed to uh the one for 150. So, I would tend to agree with the applicants um assertion that that the parking functions well even with the

504
02:33:11.600 --> 02:33:26.880
variance which seems kind of like an ext like extensive variance, but in actuality it's it's probably more accurate. Uh I I don't have any other questions actually for the applicants traffic engineer, but I'm happy to answer any questions the board may have. >> I know we're going to have a planner

505
02:33:26.880 --> 02:33:43.760
come up, but this would be the end the end of the engineering aspect of the application. And and my question to you would be is everything that you've already encountered and are about to encounter doable from from your aspect.

506
02:33:43.760 --> 02:34:00.560
It is it is that we've we have revised plans and I think the few revisions or you know outstanding comments that we have in our memo uh can be addressed without any appreciable changes to what the board is seeing uh tonight. >> And Mr. Hman, you would agree that

507
02:34:00.560 --> 02:34:16.080
there's going to be a cooperation should there be an approval that all of these any of these little matters are going to be handled. >> Absolutely. And and should the board act favorably, there'll be resolution compliance items. But I'm confident with Vina's office and >> I know we're a little off from that, but

508
02:34:16.080 --> 02:34:30.960
just from an engineering standpoint, I want and I know there's going to be some questions. I know Miss Vanelli would like to hear about the the route through and I would too, but uh let me go to Miss Sant. Nothing. >> I'll start down with Miss Gomez.

509
02:34:30.960 --> 02:34:46.720
>> I have a question. these tankers that are kind of come in and uh unload if they're going to be a special area where they can line up and fuel, you know, unload. >> So that way you when you're coming in on Molita way northbound, you see you only have one way in and you have all these

510
02:34:46.720 --> 02:35:06.800
cars there. I just want to make sure that there's going to be enough safe passage that someone don't get crushed. >> I think John can address that. >> Of course. So, go over back to the exhibit. >> You're referring to the queueing exhibit. >> Yeah. >> So, the queueing exhibit A4.

511
02:35:06.800 --> 02:35:22.479
So, >> maybe you want to point up on the Oh, >> I want to do it work up here. Okay. So in the queueing exhibit A4, so to the north of the the queueing area are these three underground tanks which are curved off and actually accessed on the north

512
02:35:22.479 --> 02:35:38.960
side which is that striped area here. And so that fuel tanker coming uh you know into the site to to drop fuel to unload the fuel does not need to circulate through the queueing area does not need to go through the tank through the canopy

513
02:35:38.960 --> 02:35:54.880
>> by any means. It it is essentially parked in the um in the striped area and then um unloads the fuel to the underground tank. >> Anything else, Miss Gomez? >> No, thank you, >> M. >> No, I'm good, >> Mr. Scott. No.

514
02:35:54.880 --> 02:36:12.240
>> Oh, thank you very much. Um so that's a one lane exit onto Mleta and Downing. Is that correct? >> So there's there's a left turn lane and a right turn lane. >> The lane out is only one lane. It's one lane in and one lane out. >> Correct. In terms of directional flow.

515
02:36:12.240 --> 02:36:29.680
>> So we we're utilizing the bank is utilizing that. >> No. >> What do you mean? >> Well, well, I guess Mleta Way is one way each direction. Is that part of what you're talking about? >> To get into BJ's, you have one way in

516
02:36:29.680 --> 02:36:44.640
off of Downing Metta. >> Then Metta. Yes. >> Okay. And one way out. >> Yes. >> Okay. The bank uses that one way out. >> Correct. That's this correct. That's the driveway. >> The storage units that we have in the back, they use that one lane also. >> Correct.

517
02:36:44.640 --> 02:37:02.319
>> And BJ's uses that one lane also. Correct. >> And now the gas station will be using that one lane also. >> Yes. >> And there's a light there. >> Yes. >> And as the cars are coming out of the gas station and the people coming out of BJ's, they're going to be just line up all the way back. Um the storage thing I

518
02:37:02.319 --> 02:37:17.359
hardly ever see any action from there. >> Right. >> And when was your uh traffic study done? >> So the counts were conducted in August 2024. >> A weekday weekend. >> So a weekday from 7:00 to 9:00 a.m. and from 4:00 to 7:00 p.m. and then on

519
02:37:17.359 --> 02:37:32.880
Saturday from 11:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. >> Yes. And we have a number of unde uh developments going on in that area. And uh I just think it's just going to be a total backup of traffic coming out of there. >> No, I I understand and appreciate that.

520
02:37:32.880 --> 02:37:50.000
Um the analysis that was conducted showed that the change in level of service resulting from this development as well as a handful of other developments coming through the area is minimal. Right. I'm not saying that there is absolutely zero change, but it

521
02:37:50.000 --> 02:38:07.439
is well within accepted traffic engineering standards. and having this traffic be on Mallet Way as opposed to trying to say get a new driveway onto Route 9 is a much better um you know traffic engineering design solution to

522
02:38:07.439 --> 02:38:23.840
to have those vehicles traversing on and off of the site um you know without really the high volume of Route 9 impacting it. another wholesale place. Uh when they sell gas, they move rather quickly

523
02:38:23.840 --> 02:38:40.000
>> and those cars are in and they're out and they're back on the road. But we only have one lane here. So I And then you have customers coming out of BJs. >> Then the bank is going to be affected also. And then you have cars coming in.

524
02:38:40.000 --> 02:38:55.280
So now you have to in order for the cars that are going to get gas, they have to make a left. But yeah, you're going to have cars leaving your gas station. >> So yeah, the vehicles that they make the left toward the north end of the parking area, >> right?

525
02:38:55.280 --> 02:39:13.680
>> Whereas the vehicles leaving are more toward the southern end. So there's no conflicts between those entering and exiting vehicles. Um but one of the things in discussing with um with ERRI about the traffic in this area is they

526
02:39:13.680 --> 02:39:29.439
do want us to um once we're able to actually get into the traffic signal cabinet and and um you know look at the timing that's applied with that traffic light. run our analysis with the most optimized timing possible and come back

527
02:39:29.439 --> 02:39:45.280
out and and implement those timing standards so we can you know who knows how long it's been since they've updated those timings. Maybe there's a little bit of progression for achieving there a little while. >> Mhm. >> Cuz we shop there and a lot of times my

528
02:39:45.280 --> 02:40:00.720
wife is complaining the cold foods are getting wrong. We got to get out of here. So, and plus now we're going to be behind traffic. Just something to consider. >> Yeah. So that was one thing that that in our conversations with the RI's office to look what we can do to optimize that

529
02:40:00.720 --> 02:40:19.680
traffic light. It's, you know, as analyzed, this is not going to have a significant impact, but we certainly like the opportunity to try to make it better. >> Um, >> okay. No further questions. Mr.

530
02:40:19.680 --> 02:40:35.760
>> Question about the traffic play and the timing. Who would jurisdiction over that. >> That's the township, >> right? >> So, >> I don't think that's a township road. >> It's a township traffic light. >> Township road. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The light is the townships.

531
02:40:35.760 --> 02:40:52.800
>> I'm satisfied. >> Okay. >> Mrs. Andrew. >> No, I was concerned. Same thing that Leon Leon said with the all the new things that are going up there. Um the traffic study from 2024. I just Oh, I'm

532
02:40:52.800 --> 02:41:10.080
I'm so sorry. I just feel a traffic study from 2024, considering everything that's starting to build up over there, is is um a little outdated. That's my personal opinion. I'm not an expert, but I just feel that there's going to be a Dunkin Donuts, a Jimmy John's, and some

533
02:41:10.080 --> 02:41:27.520
other retail stores. And I that's my main concern. >> And also the fire report. Thank you. >> Understood. And as part of our traffic study, we do build in these background growth rates to look to capture um you

534
02:41:27.520 --> 02:41:42.640
know that traffic volume growth, right? So it's not that we're just stacking the BJ's gas traffic on top of 2024 volume. We grow that 2024 volume to, you know, cover the self storage, cover the Duncan, cover the Jimmy John's, and and

535
02:41:42.640 --> 02:41:58.800
in general development growth, you know, in this in this area and in the region. >> Mr. car in in totality there'll be no more parking in there for customers from the store, right? you're gonna be using the entire that section of the lot

536
02:41:58.800 --> 02:42:14.720
>> and there are >> to the to the west of Molita the the in other words your dispensers as we look at the diagram to the north >> there'll be no more over over load parking >> there's still two >> it still will be >> yeah yeah there's still two two full

537
02:42:14.720 --> 02:42:30.080
rows of call it the overflow parking as well as along the outside >> okay >> um they're not shown on this figure because they're existing to remain exactly as is Okay. Yeah. >> I just uh the gas is for members only,

538
02:42:30.080 --> 02:42:44.720
correct? Or is that open to the general public as well? >> It's for members only. It used to be open to the public because everyone thought that was the law in New Jersey and then [snorts] uh that got challenged and now it's members only. Yeah.

539
02:42:44.720 --> 02:43:03.760
>> Okay. Just wanted to make that clear. >> I have nothing else. Uh Mr. chairman chairman can I can I make a comment >> um because I'm hearing some of the comments that are coming up and if you recall when um the Duncan

540
02:43:03.760 --> 02:43:21.120
uh came in for the application I gave a brief presentation about this whole area being pursued as transit village. So um one of the basis for me to even pursue transit village designation in this area

541
02:43:21.120 --> 02:43:37.040
was that a um there is a bus terminus right there which has one of the highest rerships right and then if you look at the aerials because I mean I'm not a traffic expert but I'm looking at near

542
02:43:37.040 --> 02:43:54.000
maps where they periodically take uh aerial imaginary almost like 65 to 70% of the parking lot is empty within that entire area. So as

543
02:43:54.000 --> 02:44:10.160
part and again um some of the sites within this area are uh part of our affordable housing plan uh which is kind of getting finalized. It should be finalized before September 15th. But um

544
02:44:10.160 --> 02:44:26.720
as one of the condition of getting the housing plan approval would be me pursuing transit village which means I will be going in front of the planning board with an area investigation study which is one of the requirements to get

545
02:44:26.720 --> 02:44:43.439
the transit village designation. But the basis of my study and I already started it a few years ago because of uh the high ridership for the bus terminus and in that what I notice is there is a very

546
02:44:43.439 --> 02:45:02.479
high u underutilization rate. Um so even if you don't have access to the near map imagery which I have even if you go during daytime there the the parking lot is empty bringing in uses um that help

547
02:45:02.479 --> 02:45:20.080
the residents in that area or in and around that area is only going to reduce that underutilization. you will see much more mixed use coming in that area once we are a designated transit village.

548
02:45:20.080 --> 02:45:35.439
parking um like it was testified our parking audience uh ordinance is a little off. Uh but I think in this case because it is transit oriented they have different standards. There are fewer

549
02:45:35.439 --> 02:45:53.279
parking requirement than uh a normal development would have. So I think we have to wait to see how things pan out. um the concerns are logical and I think the um expert has testified on some of

550
02:45:53.279 --> 02:46:08.160
those. We have been brainstorming on the queueing part in the two technical review meetings that we had. So I just wanted to offer that background that keep in mind that the vision for this area is much wider. So you might see

551
02:46:08.160 --> 02:46:23.200
more activity coming in that area because we want to take advantage of the bus terminus being there. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. The the the other question I had I guess for either you Vina or Rakkesh

552
02:46:23.200 --> 02:46:39.520
about the uh the traffic study and the counts that were done in 2024. I mean I think Rakkesh your office has had discussions with with our traffic engineer and maybe you could just weigh in on that issue perhaps. >> Actually Pakish before you chime in can

553
02:46:39.520 --> 02:46:54.319
I say something only because >> um the one thought that comes to my mind and I'm trying to help the board understand if you may. Um see although we are reviewing this as a gas station

554
02:46:54.319 --> 02:47:12.240
it is really an accessory use to the wholesale the beaches that is there. So if I have to look at the technicality part of it you evaluate parking and you evaluate

555
02:47:12.240 --> 02:47:27.760
the principal use but the accessory use is it goes with it. It's not like there is additional traffic coming to the gas station. People or patrons that are coming to the principal use are the ones

556
02:47:27.760 --> 02:47:44.319
that are fueling uh filling up gas. There will be some people like me who make a trip to Costco just to fill up gas. But typically when people go to these places, they are shopping in BGS. Once they're done with their shopping,

557
02:47:44.319 --> 02:48:02.000
then they are going to fuel gas. They're not really entering. There will be a fewer percentage that actually enters the site just to go to the gas station. So one thing that you need to keep in mind is yes when it is a principal use

558
02:48:02.000 --> 02:48:17.680
you evaluate it much stringently for the traffic movement but when it is an accessory use to the principal use which is wholesale then it has to be reviewed slightly differently >> that would be >> you can pay me later for that

559
02:48:17.680 --> 02:48:34.640
>> because it's member it's member driven correct >> right you I Dave I said you can pay me for that >> [laughter] >> I knew that when you said you're breaking up. >> Thank you. That was >> Mr. D. Did you want to jump in? >> Uh yes, I I don't mind. The um with

560
02:48:34.640 --> 02:48:51.920
regard to the the counts, the this is a a common thing that happens in in a lot of these these kind of applications, right? We have uh traffic. It's like a almost like a chicken and egg thing. Uh traffic counts are taken when when uh an applicant undertakes a a project. Uh

561
02:48:51.920 --> 02:49:09.439
then the process as as it is such as it is in New Jersey uh it takes a while to get an application to the point where it's even heard by the board. Um I would sub submit that 2 years actually isn't that much of a difference. Believe it or not uh this application uh was initiated in 2024. So those counts were very

562
02:49:09.439 --> 02:49:25.920
current at the time that applicant um you know initiated the application. Uh what one thing that we do uh and I say we like I'm a traffic engineer. I dabble. Uh but the guy who at my office who reviewed it, Bernie, the older gray gray-haired gentleman, he's been doing

563
02:49:25.920 --> 02:49:43.279
it for 50 years. Um we confirm uh the the the traffic counts and everything. And then one of the things that they do uh is they um they actually uh grow those numbers. There's a growth rate. That's what uh Mr. Cor was saying. there's a growth rate that's applied uh

564
02:49:43.279 --> 02:50:00.080
to to the numbers to update them and and sort of um you know make them more current in that regard. So so there's historic data uh that's that that's uh you know analyzed and that's kept track of and so there's a a growth that's applied on on the traffic so that it

565
02:50:00.080 --> 02:50:15.760
does account for that lapse in time. It's almost um impossible to have data that's you know hot off the presses uh because of the process that we have to go through. DOT applications sometimes take 2 3 4 years to to get done right.

566
02:50:15.760 --> 02:50:30.960
Uh so so in that regard it's very difficult to have data that's you know within the last few weeks few months or what have you. So so that's that's how it's dealt with. I don't have any concerns with regard to the um the time that the the data was taken. I would

567
02:50:30.960 --> 02:50:46.560
have concerns if it was significantly older like like we've had applications here at this board and at the planning board where we've had applications that have been hanging around since 2005 >> and and then those are the ones where we say yeah go update your numbers. The

568
02:50:46.560 --> 02:51:02.800
Wood Haven uh applications been around for 30 years. So every few every 5 6 years when they come in with an application we do ask them to go and update their numbers. That's not the case with this application. And actually just to add on to this Rakkesh and this is a question for you because I know we

569
02:51:02.800 --> 02:51:18.560
have worked on uh so many projects but in the recent years when we did all the warehousing projects where there was uh farmland and now you have all these warehouses we had required post construction traffic studies. this area

570
02:51:18.560 --> 02:51:35.520
because the larger area not this site but the larger area is going to be part of transit village and there is more development uh anticipated I'm pretty certain when we go through that redevelopment planning stage there will be a requirement for post construction

571
02:51:35.520 --> 02:51:51.760
studies like 6 months later because that has been a norm with all the projects that Rakkesh and I have been working in the past five six years >> yeah absolutely that that that's correct that when you we have applications. And again, this is a a relatively smaller application. It's a gas station on an

572
02:51:51.760 --> 02:52:07.040
existing developed site, but a lot of times when you have the larger scale um redevelopment kind of applications, we do require the uh developer as a condition of approval to go back and do a post construction study. So, these warehouse uh uh projects that are being

573
02:52:07.040 --> 02:52:22.000
built on Route 9, part of their approvals, they're they're going to have to go back and and actually conduct a post construction study to to basically compare what they said was going to happen to actually what happened and then they've been obligated to then make

574
02:52:22.000 --> 02:52:38.720
any improvements that are uh that either my office or the township engineer uh may deem appropriate as well. So, so there is a lot of u attention paid to those kind of things on the township side and also of course on the DOT side >> and Mr. Chairman, I think the applicant

575
02:52:38.720 --> 02:52:55.920
would agree to that condition that to the extent uh the board would approve this, the applicant would agree to do additional traffic studies or counts whatever is required either post construction or as part of resolution compliance and should there be an

576
02:52:55.920 --> 02:53:12.240
appreciable difference then the board could uh provide direction in the resolution of approval for Vina's office and Rakkesha's office to review that make recommendations ations as to any improvements and the board always retains jurisdiction also that if the

577
02:53:12.240 --> 02:53:27.040
applicant if there were concerns we could always come back on a modified >> BJ's has always been a good neighbor to to the community putting the store up putting the propane in uh now seeking I don't fear that that they wouldn't

578
02:53:27.040 --> 02:53:43.040
cooperate and and I know you at your word as well stating that that I'm sure that it would be able to be worked out >> well and I I appreciate the board members comments about uh the fact that the data is a little older I mean or to a couple years but unfortunately in New

579
02:53:43.040 --> 02:53:59.439
Jersey land use that's like a three-month old baby [laughter] so you know unfortunately it's just the nature of the beast but I think the board always has to the right to retain jurisdiction and I think I trust your your your engineer and your board

580
02:53:59.439 --> 02:54:16.000
planner to review that data and if they feel improvements are necessary I think they would be able to recommend that. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. You have a question. >> I have one more question for the traffic engineer. >> If I was to go to BJ's, which I am a

581
02:54:16.000 --> 02:54:31.600
member, >> I would get gas first and then go shopping. >> If you're going for if you're going for groceries, likely. >> And so once I get gas, I'll have to make a right and leave. >> How do I get back? >> Once once you get gas, >> I go left.

582
02:54:31.600 --> 02:54:46.640
>> Make a left. >> Okay. You're allowed to go a left. >> Yeah. Yeah. So there's two lanes here that are both out. So you can make a left and then turn into any one of the the >> the single line on that road. >> Yeah, you can. >> Yeah. >> So I'll be able to make a a left and go

583
02:54:46.640 --> 02:55:06.240
back to BJ. >> Yes, absolutely. >> You can go around. >> So you can do you can get the gas first and then do your show. >> Oh, of course. >> Perfect. Yes, Miss Andrew. >> I'm a Costco member and um >> not too long ago, I'm sorry,

584
02:55:06.240 --> 02:55:22.720
>> my husband was a faithful BJ's member um to turn off of nine. There were a few of cars. Couldn't get in yet. >> Mhm. >> Finally, we did. And they come in and out and then you can come in from Texas

585
02:55:22.720 --> 02:55:38.720
Road also in and out. Um, I go there for gas, not when I'm going to shop because if I can't find a close enough parking space, I'm not the only one, >> right? >> Uh, many of us go for our gas before we

586
02:55:38.720 --> 02:55:54.880
have to go shopping because it's it's crowded. And I I I don't say you shouldn't put a gas station. My concern is going in one way and out one way. I' I've always been concerned about that. And that's why I really like to wait for

587
02:55:54.880 --> 02:56:12.319
the fire also for the fire. I know you use templates when you do for fire engines. Um I I don't know maybe I'm wrong for saying this but in today's uh I AI and I'm not a computer person. I don't understand why it can't be on a

588
02:56:12.319 --> 02:56:27.840
computer if they're making a turn h how that uh fire engine is going to make it rather than just using a template and knowing from inches and inches. Everything is so um modern and technological. I I just find it

589
02:56:27.840 --> 02:56:46.240
difficult because I live in an area that's one way in and one way out and that's my biggest fear. Thank you. Can I just ask you a follow-up question? Would you be opposed if uh a condition of the approval were uh provided that um

590
02:56:46.240 --> 02:57:01.359
the fire official would have to be satisfied with any proposed uh plan that we submit revised plan and and you would and the board would clearly have the ability to have jurisdiction over that issue as and and well Vina's office and Rakkesha's office

591
02:57:01.359 --> 02:57:17.279
would have input on that as well. Well, I would just assume that that's the way it would be regardless of having anything special put in there. I just assume it would be >> right. >> Uh that's just the norm, >> right? >> Yeah, that's that's my Thank you.

592
02:57:17.279 --> 02:57:32.560
>> Okay. Thank you. >> What do you think about the planner? >> Yes. >> What do you think? >> We can move quickly, but it's up to you what you want to do. >> I know. >> He's ready. Look at him. He's ready. >> I'll be as brief as you'd like me to be.

593
02:57:32.560 --> 02:57:48.960
Five minutes. >> Let's swear let's swear them in and get going. >> Six minutes or less. >> Let's swear them in and get going. [laughter] >> All right. Hold on. This is still a hearing. >> Raise your hand. >> Uh, Mr. Ricky, would you please be sworn in and qualified? >> Swear affirm that the testimony you're

594
02:57:48.960 --> 02:58:05.279
about to provide is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> You state your name and spell your last. >> It's Paul Ricky. R I CCI. >> Uh, good evening, Mr. Ricky. uh if you would briefly just give us your professional qualifications and confirm that your your license is active in the

595
02:58:05.279 --> 02:58:20.960
state of New Jersey so we could have you qualified as a professional planner. Thank you. >> Yes, I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey. I've been licensed since the year 2000. I'm also a member of the American Institute of Certified Planners. I have a master's degree in city and regional planning which I received from Ruckers University

596
02:58:20.960 --> 02:58:37.040
in 1997. I'm currently a municipal planning consultant in seven towns. I I testify in front of boards regularly. have been qualified in over 200 communities. >> Thank you for putting that on the record and and we appreciate that and we accept your expertise. License is current and in good standing.

597
02:58:37.040 --> 02:58:52.160
>> It is. Yes. >> Mr. Ricky, if you would just uh go through your planning justification. Obviously, we've got the conditional use variance and we've got the F variants uh and we have uh the bulk variances as well. So, I will leave I will direct the

598
02:58:52.160 --> 02:59:08.160
floor to you. Thank you. >> Sure. Um, given the lateness of the of the evening, I wasn't going to relist all the variances, but I'll I'll try to go through them. Some of them had been addressed by some of the other uh witnesses as well. So, I'll just build on on that testimony. Um, just to recognize here too, we're in your

599
02:59:08.160 --> 02:59:25.120
commercial recreational uh commercial regional district, your CR district or regional commercial district, excuse me. Um, and this is a zone that's based on standards for for lots that are 40 acres and larger. So what we have occurring here is we have conditional use standards that are very specific that

600
02:59:25.120 --> 02:59:41.680
allow gas stations to be on lots in this zone and other zones of the community as small as as 20,000 square feet and you have these these two zoning requirements at uh clashing with each other and I'll try to explain that quickly and uh so my my point is that really overall and this

601
02:59:41.680 --> 02:59:57.680
is a pretty well vetted application that despite that we have a number of variances that this results in sound land use planning and is really not in conflict with your zone as much as it it appears to be based on that reason alone. U I know the board understands

602
02:59:57.680 --> 03:00:13.760
the criteria for a C difference between a D3 D4 variant. Do I need to go through that in terms of the requirements and burden of proof >> is that >> just put on the record what you think you need to put on the record. >> Okay. Well, just just quickly because we do have devariances here but the burden

603
03:00:13.760 --> 03:00:30.560
of proof is less. uh the focus is on does the the use remain appropriate given the fact that we have a D3 variance and then also the ability of the of the site and to accommodate the problems associated um with the use and and that's similar for the D4 F variance

604
03:00:30.560 --> 03:00:46.000
again that F variance is only associated with the kiosk for which the people working at the gasoline station would be getting out of the sun rain and the like. So this is not in any way intensifying the building, adding the need for additional parking and all

605
03:00:46.000 --> 03:01:03.920
those other uh elements. Um there is a very technical um standard. I'm just going to read this into the record. You have 13 conditional use requirements. We meet 11 of those. One of these requirements, it's it's overly technical. Uh it's been identified as a

606
03:01:03.920 --> 03:01:21.200
variance by um as part of your memo, but I'm just going to read it. It says no vehicle shall be permitted to be standing or parked on the premises other than those used by employees in the indirect or direct operation of the establishment in customers vehicles

607
03:01:21.200 --> 03:01:38.479
waiting repair. So it's it's our interpretation that this this provision was largely meant for automotive gasoline stations that had a repair function that it didn't want to have cars just junk cars laying around and the like and and Frankly put, any

608
03:01:38.479 --> 03:01:55.359
gasoline station where cars are coming in can't meet based on the interpretation can't meet this requirement under your ordinance because it's been determined that the that those cars that are queuing in there or because it says standing in the definition does not meet that

609
03:01:55.359 --> 03:02:11.760
requirement. But it's our position that um this is a conditional permitted use that these cars are just coming through getting gas and leaving. They're not really staging there. they're not going to be eyes sores. They leave. They're not going to be parked overnight. So, um we don't believe that this is a

610
03:02:11.760 --> 03:02:26.960
substantial impairment um from your zone plan or the intent uh of your zone plan for that reason. The only other conditional use standard that we don't meet is associated with uh driveways can't be more than 25 ft wide. Driveways are 30t wide today. That's an existing

611
03:02:26.960 --> 03:02:43.920
condition and how those driveways are are today and that we're not proposing to make them wider uh as part of this. So we believe that this is an existing hardship that that we suffer from uh in this regard. Um again the the floor air ratio variance um that's just associated

612
03:02:43.920 --> 03:03:00.399
with which I said those kiosks people give them there's some benefits associated with those gives the ability for those patrons to get out of the sun rain and inclement weather and floor ratio is really in my opinion it's meant to control masses of buildings and the intensity of sites in terms of the

613
03:03:00.399 --> 03:03:15.439
amount of activity occurs the need for parking and all those other elements. None of that's occurring here. So this is a in my opinion um you know a [laughter] floor a technical floor ratio variance that's in no way uh impacting

614
03:03:15.439 --> 03:03:31.279
uh this site. Uh regarding the uh bulk variances you heard it regarding the parking deficiency. Um it's the planning position based on the testimony from your professionals and our professional that since adequate parking is being provided on this site that there will be

615
03:03:31.279 --> 03:03:47.040
no substantial detriment to the public good in zone plan. I'll just point out that your master plan very quickly specifically identifies seas of asphalt as being problematic and that those those are essentially underutilized spaces. I could read it into the record,

616
03:03:47.040 --> 03:04:03.040
but this is actually promoting your master plan by eliminating excessive parking in in seas of of asphalt. Um, we require a variance in terms of the landscape ratio on the site. I'm just going to say that despite the need for that variance, as part of this

617
03:04:03.040 --> 03:04:18.560
application, we're making the site more conforming to your zone requirement. So, we still require the variance, but we're making the site better by adding increased landscaping. Um, regarding the minimum accessory uh structure setback,

618
03:04:18.560 --> 03:04:35.200
90 ft is required and that's u on the setback that that adjoins the bank. Uh 90 ft is provided where 100 ft is required. I just want to point out that under your conditional use standards for this use allows this use as I said previously on sites as small as 20,000

619
03:04:35.200 --> 03:04:51.840
square ft and it would allow the gas station to be permitted as close to 25 ft to the front yard side and rear yard. So we have these conflicting ordinance provisions. So, the fact that we're providing 90 ft is still, we think, a very ample standard and is uh it it

620
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vastly exceeds the conditional use requirement uh for this use in the zone. And that's the same for the accessory structure with in the front yard. I mean, gas stations just they just don't work in rear yards. They have to be facing the street. And I believe that your conditional use requirements

621
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recognizes that. But because it's an accessory use in front of the BJ's building, that triggers this additional variance on a lot that requires 40 acres and and the building was set back to begin with. So, we don't believe that's again a substantial departure. And this

622
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represents a better zoning alternative for the site. You heard from the site engineer. We're seeking um the canopy to be 17 ft high where 15 ft is permitted. That's needed so trucks can safely pass under that canopy. And this is a zone

623
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that allows heights for principal structures up to 65 ft. So this would not be creating a height that's out of character with the area. Uh regarding the signage height, um 18 ft or 60 square ft is uh permitted where 40 ft

624
03:05:55.520 --> 03:06:11.359
and 200 square ft is proposed. Uh on in face value, that appears to be a substantial departure from your zone plan. We did look at signage in the area. I'm just going to just jump to this portion of it. Uh, Old Bridge shopping plaza, the the coal sign, we

625
03:06:11.359 --> 03:06:28.160
measure that to be approximately 570 square feet and 47 feet tall. The Home Depot and Walmart approximately 440 ft and 45 ft tall. The Old Bridge Gateway at Marshall 632 ft and 59 ft tall. So we

626
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believe that our sign despite the need for variance relief is consistent with the corridor will not result in a negative visual impact and will fit uh in this environment. I think everyone recognizes that this is a is a site that is the building setback uh in terms of access into the building. It's limited.

627
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So it does it could benefit from a planning standpoint to have additional exposure for this use as well as I I believe as a as a land use planner. Um, and we also need the additional uh sign on the canopy that was testified to our site engineer. Um, uh, simply put, you

628
03:07:01.840 --> 03:07:17.760
know, this is a is a a canopy that's surrounded by parking fields and the like. The applicant is just looking for a little bit more exposure on that canopy. So, people leaving the BJS can can see that sign and get gas. Is it absolutely necessary? No. But the applicant's asking for the board to

629
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consider that in terms of u the fact of that this sign will be visible from from multiple uh locations. Um so we we meet many master plan objectives reuse and reinvestment an existing commercial site repurposing underutilized parking

630
03:07:33.359 --> 03:07:49.439
reducing the sea of asphalt strengthening the Route 9 commercial corridor coordinate access circulation and traffic management. And there's more. I'm just going to cut it off there. Um, so for the reasons I mentioned, we meet several purposes of miscellaneous law. Purpose A, this advances your master plan and promotes

631
03:07:49.439 --> 03:08:05.920
the general welfare of the community. Uh, purpose G, provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for commercial uses to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens. Um, we believe it to continue to promote the free flow of traffic. This is located off of nine. All the queuing is going to occur on site and

632
03:08:05.920 --> 03:08:21.359
also uh purpose and the coordination of land development procedures and activities. um that that essentially uh as well in terms of negative criteria um the variances can be granted without a substantial detriment to the public good in your zone plan. Uh this is

633
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essentially um in my opinion this is a growth area of the township. It's a commercial zone. Um we heard from uh the other witnesses um and your your staff uh at some time and these issues have all been largely vetted. uh we believe it's a a well- vetted application that's

634
03:08:38.479 --> 03:08:53.760
not going to result in substantial detriments to the public good. That's namely the surrounding property owners and the intent and purpose of your zone plan. We're largely here in compliance is that we're we're conditionally permitted use in the zone. Uh, I think I demonstrated that the the fact that we

635
03:08:53.760 --> 03:09:08.720
need several variances that um those variances on face value appear to be greater than they are, but when you really look at this site and some of your other standards that were really very close to being a fully conforming uh application. I'm going to cut it there unless the board would like more

636
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testimony. Um, for all these reasons, I I believe this is an application that results in sound land use planning. Mr. ISO is looking at me and smiling, so I'm trying to take that cue as well. >> Thank you, Mr. Ricky. >> Thank you, Mr. Ricky, for your testimony. >> Yes, what?

637
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>> I have no questions for Ricky. >> Mr. Darie. >> No questions. >> Let me go bye to the board. We'll start uh with Miss Gomez. >> We have one question. [laughter] >> Here's the man. >> This is all gasoline, no diesel, right? >> No.

638
03:09:39.920 --> 03:09:56.000
>> All gasoline, no diesel. >> Do we have low flow diesel here? I don't know. There's low flow diesel. So that my understanding I'm not a traffic guy but um like a 18-wheeler couldn't come up. They wouldn't come here because that's what I want to know cuz you're saying 17 to 15 ft and you know I'm

639
03:09:56.000 --> 03:10:12.240
visioning these trucks coming in trying to get gas. >> That's what I was feeling [laughter] it takes too long for them to fill up. So this is like a Volkswagen jet diesel pipe. >> Okay. >> Melli. >> No, I'm good. Ma, >> I don't know. Should I repeat everything? >> Yeah, go ahead. [laughter]

640
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>> Sorry, Mr. >> I'm good. >> This is Andrew. Oh yeah. >> You You said there'll be no e um electric vehicle stations there. It's just strictly gas. >> Oh, you mean chargers? You mean? You mean chargers? You mean >> the charging stations? Yeah.

641
03:10:25.920 --> 03:10:41.279
>> I believe under in your er's memorandum there there is a requirement. I think it's for one readym make station to go in. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. So >> that's correct. That's per our township ordinance. >> Right. That's per the ordinance. >> That going to go on the

642
03:10:41.279 --> 03:10:58.399
>> shopping side on the store side? I believe so. >> Probably. >> Yeah, I would think so. >> I think it' be along the back road. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Councelor, anything? >> Nothing. >> I have nothing. I I I thank you for your

643
03:10:58.399 --> 03:11:15.600
your uh testimony and was very concise and and I think you you hit on all the points. >> Okay. Thank you. >> that were needed. As I said before, I think that that BJ has been a good friend to the community and to its members. I think they will continue to be regardless of whether the approval or

644
03:11:15.600 --> 03:11:31.920
not. But but I I I think that they provide good service and I think this is going to be probably good for the community as well. Uh saving on like >> as Mr. Sco said himself, I go and I buy gas and then I buy I would buy that. So

645
03:11:31.920 --> 03:11:48.000
when you do that one-stop shopping, you're saving fuel too and you're not you're not putting more vehicles on the road at the same time. So >> I understand. >> I don't really have any issues with that. Uh, are you going to ask for a vote, sir? >> Yeah. Well, you're going to open to the public. >> Well, I'm going to do that, but I'm saying you're going to seek a vote

646
03:11:48.000 --> 03:12:03.040
tonight, right? >> Yeah. I mean, the only question I would have is um you know, given the fact that we only have six members, I would just perhaps after you open up to the public, if there's if there's an opportunity to at least hear >> as I would as I would at any application, in fairness to the

647
03:12:03.040 --> 03:12:16.800
applicant, I always ask anybody if there is a problem and you want to discuss it, please do it now. and I will do the same thing after I go to the public. >> I realize that. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Helman. >> Um, this is matter 23-2025Z,

648
03:12:16.800 --> 03:12:36.160
BJ's Club, uh, located on US 9 for external fuel dispensers. There's anyone here in the courtroom this evening, please uh, please raise your hand or stand if you'd like to be heard on this matter. Once again, this is likely be the only

649
03:12:36.160 --> 03:12:52.800
time for this public portion. I guess everyone here is a professional, so I don't think they're going to step forward. I'll close the public portion. Final comments from you, sir. >> Uh, Mr. Chairman, I think the the did an excellent job pres uh with its

650
03:12:52.800 --> 03:13:08.800
presentation. I think we've gone through extensive TRC meetings. I think that all the technical issues have been uh at least to date er and VNA's office have been satisfied. We I did hear some of the concerns with regard to some of the

651
03:13:08.800 --> 03:13:23.760
uh circulation issues and parking and queuing. uh and I think uh that the applicant did a did a very good job addressing those and clearly this board still retains the the jurisdiction over all these issues and quite frankly I

652
03:13:23.760 --> 03:13:40.239
trust your uh engineers office to be able to oversee that. So based on all of that and the lateness of the hour I would ask that the board at least uh favorably act upon the application but I would like to obviously hear comments before >> and I would add that Mr. Deorg did put

653
03:13:40.239 --> 03:13:56.800
on the record uh the saying that he felt that all the engineering issues if not solved could easily be be dealt with and and I take it both of you men at your word that that's that would happen. >> I would agree. >> Is there anybody here on the board this evening and they would like to comment on anything

654
03:13:56.800 --> 03:14:10.720
>> concerning this application? >> No, I'm good. >> I'm just concerned with the traffic report of 2024 with everything that Mrs. Danger brought up that we had quite a extensive uh construction building going on down

655
03:14:10.720 --> 03:14:29.520
in that area in 2024. >> That just bothers me a little bit. >> Okay. Well, [snorts] >> I think you did say you're going to do a post >> Yes. >> a postmortem on this. >> I mean, I Yes. But I again if if the board still has concerns about the

656
03:14:29.520 --> 03:14:44.560
traffic counts and some other issues, the applicant's willing to address those before the board acts on this. >> Okay. >> Let me just see. Mr. Izzo, did you want to say anything? >> Satisfied. >> And Mrs. Andrew, did you want to say anything? >> Some more questions. >> Councelor, you had nothing that's in

657
03:14:44.560 --> 03:15:02.160
your hands, Mr. Herman. I I find that uh that I believe you've met the burden of proof for the D3 and all the other uh attached bulk items. So, and the D4, but again, as a condition of any approval, the applicant would agree to do uh

658
03:15:02.160 --> 03:15:18.880
traffic counts again uh even as part of resolution compliance and before construction commences. And I think the I so if the board acts upon this favorably uh if ERRI has concerns or Vina's office has concerns the applicant will be willing to come [clears throat]

659
03:15:18.880 --> 03:15:36.479
back to the board if needed for that review. Uh so I would >> Mr. Dodie >> yeah and one of the things and and I don't know if this will give Mr. Izzo and Miss Andrew some level of comfort. Uh, one of the things that we do have in our memo is uh, evaluating that traffic

660
03:15:36.479 --> 03:15:53.200
signal and and making some timing adjustments and and things like that. from from a pure circulation standpoint like the accesses into the gas station or anything. This is a sound design as far as getting in and out of the gas station, getting in and out of the bank, getting in and out of the PJs,

661
03:15:53.200 --> 03:16:07.760
everything that there are no conflicting movements and and there's no um cues backing up, blocking accesses and things like that that we paid a lot of attention to that. That's one of the reasons why it's taken uh you know several months to get this application

662
03:16:07.760 --> 03:16:24.479
before the board. the only outstanding item uh that's really left to be evaluated is is the impact at that traffic light and once we have updated numbers uh updated counts um and I would actually suggest that the timing be

663
03:16:24.479 --> 03:16:41.200
evaluated maybe even post approval or post construction so that the actual timing can be can be adjusted uh based off of the actual conditions after the the gas station would have been built. >> I mean I I I I concur. I I just want the board to understand that BJ's is

664
03:16:41.200 --> 03:16:57.359
committed to making sure that all these traffic issues are addressed. We're not looking to move forward with the project. The the the applicant is in the business of obviously consumer uh sales and in this case would be fuel sales. The last thing we want to have is a

665
03:16:57.359 --> 03:17:14.160
situation where the site can't the the there's there's queuing issues or there's there's backups going on to the various roads. And I think I think with those conditions in place, I think the town is safeguarded from that. And uh so I'm I'm hopeful that that would that

666
03:17:14.160 --> 03:17:31.680
addresses the board's concerns. >> There was just one concern here about the uh fire report. Do do you agree to uh submit an updated and approved fire report? >> Absolutely. Well, we would provide Yes. And we would we would as a condition of the approval, the fire official would

667
03:17:31.680 --> 03:17:47.359
have to be satisfied. We didn't get a report from him. >> We did, but it require he did raise concerns and the applicant is going to submit uh a revised plan to the fire official and have him approve that. >> I believe that can be done through compliance review.

668
03:17:47.359 --> 03:18:04.239
>> Right. Correct. >> Okay. >> We can't we wouldn't be able to get final sign off without the fire official approving the plan. >> Right. Right. >> And and if the fire official doesn't approve it, we can't meet resolution compliance. and the the the project can

669
03:18:04.239 --> 03:18:20.319
never be constructed. >> Well, we're missing two members obviously and we're short ones. So, we're not we don't have nine. We have we have uh eight and we're missing two tonight. So, um again, I put that back

670
03:18:20.319 --> 03:18:37.439
the ball in your court on that. If you want to if you want to have a continuence to come back here for any reason, if you uh that would certainly be your choice. I mean, the only reason I would indicate or suggest that is if um you know, you wanted to see an

671
03:18:37.439 --> 03:18:54.000
updated memo from the fire official. That would be one. Uh I mean, the traffic counts, I think that's something that the applicants already agreed uh to comply with anyway. Um so, if the board would would like to see an updated

672
03:18:54.000 --> 03:19:10.000
memo from the fire official, we could we could certainly do that and defer the vote on this. That's totally up to you. I'm good with it as it is, but I know that you can't do it without the fire officials approval anyway. Exactly. >> So, u I'm okay with that. I know that

673
03:19:10.000 --> 03:19:24.960
that's going to come through and you're either going to agree to it or you're not going to you have to be able to do it. You'll be back here either way. >> Right. I think at the end of the day, I'm comfortable proceeding now because the fire official >> would have final say and this this even >> Well, of course, he's going to have that anyway.

674
03:19:24.960 --> 03:19:40.080
>> No, no, but to the point where we couldn't even comply with resolution compliance. Sure. >> So the so the project could never be constructed. So I'm comfortable with the board at least acting on tonight. Thank you. >> Yeah. I I feel you you've met your burden of proof. >> Yeah. >> I'm satisfied with the testimony this evening.

675
03:19:40.080 --> 03:19:55.359
>> I appreciate that. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Uh you're going we're going to go for a vote. Um Mr. >> Buckley, this would be one vote for the entire right major preliminary final site plan with CND varants. >> That's correct. >> Correct. Someone interested in moving this forward.

676
03:19:55.359 --> 03:20:11.120
>> I'll move it. >> This one second. We'll get second. I'm Yeah. Who was that? Misselli. >> Okay. And Mr. Iso second. >> A second. >> Mr. Iso second. >> Thank you. >> Roll call, please. [snorts] >> Miss Andrews, >> yes. >> Miss Gomez, >> yes. >> Mr. Iso,

677
03:20:11.120 --> 03:20:26.160
>> yes. >> Mr. Scoggin, >> yes. >> Miss Penelli, >> yes. >> Chairman Sullivan, >> yes. As I said, I feel comfortable that uh you're good neighbors and you'll make sure that you'll cross all the tees and dot the ice. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and board and your staff. and I appreciate the

678
03:20:26.160 --> 03:20:42.399
lateness of the hour. >> Yeah, I thank thank you for staying uh and and understanding I had to move you out of the way there in the beginning, but thank all the professionals for your testimony this evening, gentlemen. >> Thank you so much and have a good weekend. >> You as well, sir. Any further business come before the board. There is no one

679
03:20:42.399 --> 03:20:54.600
in the courtroom for general public comments. I'm going to ask someone to move for an adjournment. >> Move it. >> All in favor signify by saying I. Any opposed? We stand a journ.