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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=lYoj_rV23IQ

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like to call the meeting to order. Would everybody please rise? >> Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with

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all. Please be seated. Good evening everyone. Welcome Township of Old Bridge Zoning Board of Adjustment Meeting June 18, 2026. Adequate notice of this meeting of the Oldbridge Township zoning board of adjustment has been provided in accordance with the open public meetings

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act at least 48 hours prior to the commencement of this meeting by prominently posting in the municipal complex an announcement giving the time the date the location the agenda of this meeting mailing such uh announcement to the newspaper filing a copy of such announcement with the municipal clerk and posting the agenda on the municipal

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website. Mr. Pelli, may we have a roll call, please? >> Certainly. Miss Andrews >> present. >> Miss Gomez absent. Mr. Iso >> here. >> Mr. Scogn >> here. >> Miss Benelli >> here. >> Mr. Singh

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>> here. >> Miss Fernbach >> here. Chairman Sullivan >> here. Thank you. This meeting is being televised on the local cable channel here, channel 15, CATV. Uh, and simultaneously it goes out over YouTube live. If you ever want to watch any of

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the old meetings, you can find them on YouTube. This evening, the schedule uh the agenda did call for uh three applications. However, one has uh adjourned. So, if you're here for matter 23-2024Z

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Kim Deli uh uh doing business as uh Tuscanyany, that's not going to be heard tonight. So, if you're here on that matter, it has been adjourned. The new date uh up for the agenda is August 20th. Once again, that matter will not be heard this evening. That leaves us just two applications. I'm going to take

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them out of order this evening, and I'm going to call the uh last first. So, that's 08-2026Z. Stephanie and John Walcott. This is uh block 18047, lot 24. We'll get back to that. Uh the

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location's uh 30 Farm Brook Road in Old Bridge for a driveway expansion. Would that be you, sir? Come on up. What I do have to do before we swear anybody in there, we need to swear in our professionals. >> Gentlemen, >> raise your right hand. Do you swear? Affirm, tell the truth. Nothing about

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the truth. I hope you got >> I do. >> Do you state your name? Your profession? >> Daniel Holland, zoning officer. >> Bernard Tetwalt. >> Bernard Tetwalt, traffic engineer, environment resolutions. For those who

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are sitting here, the gentleman seated to my right, your left is council to the board. Mr. Varga, Patrick Varga, >> thank you, Chair. >> Thank you being here. >> Now, sir, I know you have an application coming before us. You going to be testifying? >> Um,

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>> the wife is going to be testifying. Well, I think what we'll do is we'll swear you both in. That way, you both can. We can't swear in the little ladies, but they could they're certainly uh welcome to uh hang out with. >> All right. Each please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm, tell truth, nothing but the truth to help you God?

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>> Yes, I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last for the record. Starting with you, ma'am. >> Walcott. >> Just spell your last for the record. >> W A L C O T. >> You, sir. >> John Walcott. W A L C O T. >> You guys are the owners of the property. >> Yes. >> Over to you, Mr. Chairman. >> I'm going to have to ask you to sit

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because you have to talk into microphones. So maybe they can share those seats. >> All right. If you'd pull that closer. They're directional microphones, so you kind of have to speak directly. >> No, no, don't touch it. >> Uh,

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>> says uh here the applicant seeking to legitimize a driveway expansion that was done without a permit. The driveway was constructed. This says 10 inch. I'm not sure that is that what that means, Dan. Actually, it says 0.01 ft. >> Yeah, it's 0.01 ft. >> Is it what?

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>> 0.01 ft. >> What is 01 ft? 2 in. >> I'll get you the calculation. I think one10enth or two point something >> about tenth of an inch. >> How much? >> No.

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>> One tenth of >> 12. >> It's like it's 1.2 in. >> Okay. >> Is >> all right. Uh and where there's a five uh foot minimum is required and you're going to you're here to seek a design waiver when you're not represented by council.

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I was going to say, do you have any uh exhibits that you want to show us? >> I I brought them in like all >> already, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. No, but I'm saying anything else you have to with you tonight. >> I didn't know if I was supposed to bring like copies, so I just >> That's okay. That's all right. Uh if if

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you do have something to submit, we'll give it to Miss Portelli and then the board attorney will see if >> if it's evidentiary. In any event, what we want you to do is tell us what the who, what, and why. What did you do? Why did you do it? uh how how what was the

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purpose of it? >> Then we may have some questions to ask you. Uh the the professional here, Mr. the zoning officer, Mr. Holahan, he'll speak as to why you need a variance. He'll advise the board and let the board, as I say, may have questions of

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you. You may have questions of us. >> Then I have to open a public portion after the testimony. So, I have to ask everyone here or anyone here if they want to speak on this matter. >> Okay? If there is none, we're going to turn it back to you and you make a decision at that time. I'm going to ask

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you if you want me to take a vote. If you don't feel you've made a good case and you're leerary about some of the questions you might be heard and you think maybe that's maybe I need to polish up a little bit, uh you can take that uh decision and say, "I'd like to have a continuence and you could come

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back again." But if you feel confident and everything goes well and you want to vote, we'll take a vote. >> Okay? And it's a majority vote. So, it's a it's a it's a plurality, not not a super majority. Okay. So, why don't you just start either one of you tell me what uh tell the board

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>> what happened. >> Um well, we're trying to do a conversion like a garage conversion and um throughout the whole process of finding a contractor and all that stuff. They said at some point that we would have to get um the driveway widened. So we

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it's been a lot with that like we keep having to kind of go back and forth with that one. So um we did it in the me in the meantime like we found somebody >> who's doing work on the block >> literally like across the street we're like oh can you just do us and and did

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the driveway and then afterwards was told that we didn't do it correctly >> if that makes sense. Well, only because there's a certain measurement that you're supposed to be. >> Yeah. >> And that's why you're here, I'm assuming, to >> Yes. >> All right. Anything else you want to tell me? Did

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>> No, it just this contractor leads you down the path like it's okay to do it like this. >> He basically said we didn't need a permit, right? >> Yeah, we just did like >> I was recovering from surgery, so it's a little >> Yeah, we literally just I mean, we were calling like a bunch of people and it just so happens one of the persons that

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we were calling Oh, god. um was literally across the street. So we're like, "Oh, could you do it?" And he's like, "Yeah, we could do it tomorrow because we have all the equipment here." And I'm like, >> "Okay, >> all right." I mean, we're firsttime homeowners from New York and it's not that complicated in Staten Island, so we

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didn't know that we weren't supposed to do that, I guess. >> No. >> And And do you like the driveway? >> I do like the driveway. >> No, I was asking you to >> Oh, does she Do you like the driveway? >> She was Yes. Okay, there we go. >> Why don't we go and let the professionals tell us? Okay.

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>> What has happened there and what you're seeking, Mr. Hollahan? >> Yeah. So, the the driveway was widened. They had filed a permit for the converting the garage and converting the garage. They're going to lose that parking spot. So, the applicant then widen the driveway to get that extra

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off- street spot. So, um the one design where they're here for the 5ft setback requirement. Um and they're 0.1 like council said, they are about a 1.2 2 in off of that sideyard property line where the 5 ft is required. So that's the only

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variance or design waiver that they're requiring is just that sideyard setback. >> Right. And there's a fence there, isn't there? >> Or hedge row as I >> Okay. >> Anything else, Mr. Hollahan? >> No, nothing at this time. >> Questions from the board members? I'll

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start at the end of the panel. >> No questions, >> Mr. S. >> No, I don't. No. >> No. >> No. >> Where'd you guys buy the house? uh four years ago. I want to say I I didn't see the house. I was on chemo, so we put the bid in before we even So, I

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want to say it was about four years ago, but that time's a real blur for me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. According to her, it's Yes. >> Do you know which Do you know which way the water comes or pitches on your property on that driveway? >> It'll come down to the street. Um so, the driveway is actually elevated.

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>> Mhm. >> So, from the street, it goes up like almost like a hill. >> Actually, what was it? What was the storm that happened four years ago? We were one of the few houses that didn't get any water damage. It actually put the house on hold because of the elevation of the house.

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>> So, the water comes uh down to the street. >> So, that water wouldn't that water is not no water is going to go onto your neighbor's property? >> No, no, no, no, >> no. Everything flows straight down. >> Miss Andrews, you have a question? >> No question. >> None. >> Thank you.

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>> Councelor, >> nothing for me, Mr. Chairman. >> I saw it and I you know And I think it's quite common in the neighborhood over there. The the builds were probably late late 60s uh early uh early 60s, late 60s, maybe even 50s,

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>> they were all one car driveways with one with one car with one garage. Yeah. >> And that was because that was always needed back then. And I know even looking down that block, many people have done what you what you've done. I I applaud you for doing the getting

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seeking the permit. Uh, and often we don't follow up with knowing the right dimensions, but uh, as long as you're still on your property and not on somebody else's, you realize if you were over the line, we could not >> prove that. Then you'd have to rip out some of the section.

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>> I don't know what the board uh, they have no questions. So, I I don't know how they're going to vote, but I do have to go to a public portion unless you have anything for me right now. >> No. No. >> Okay. This is matter 8- 2026 Z. The physical location on this is 30 Farm

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Brook uh Drive here in Old Bridge. Anyone to be uh Anyone want to be heard in this matter? It's for a driveway expansion. This will be the only time for a public portion. >> I see none, counselor. I'm going to close it. >> Certainly, Mr. Chairman. >> Public portion is closed. Final

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comments. >> Uh no, I thank you for your time. Um like I said, we're first on Mount Horn owners. We were advised by a bunch of contractors not to even seek a permit. We were never going to do that. like >> oh yeah >> we went with Sidano who have been excellent and working through the

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>> office is quite helpful and there's a lot online you know people can >> people in the office have been very helpful >> yeah people are more than willing to help help uh helpers because sometimes they just don't know >> yes no I really appreciate everyone has been fantastic in the office >> okay good I'm I'm very happy to hear

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that would you like me to call for a vote on this >> this is a hardship >> this is just a design waiver >> that's right I'm It's not just >> someone want to move this for a design waiver. He's >> a little over one inch off the line. >> I'll move it. >> Is there a second? Is

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>> it Andrew? >> Mr. Will, we'll give you that one. >> Second. >> He got the second. >> Roll call, please. >> Miss Andrews, >> yes. >> Mr. O? >> Yes. >> Mr. Scogno? >> Yes. >> Mr. Belli? >> Yes. >> Mr. Singh? >> Yes. >> Miss Fernbeck?

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>> Yes. >> Chairman Sullivan? >> I'm happy that you are making adjustments to your home. I know you moved here four four years ago. This is a great place to live and you're reinvesting in your own property and you're at the same time reinvesting in the community. So, I'm happy to hear that and you look like you got a

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wonderful family. >> My vote is yes. >> Thank you. >> There'll be a resolution at our next meeting. You don't have to appear there. You can contact the zoning officer have any questions. >> Thank you for appearing. >> Thank you so much. You have a good night. >> Goodbye. >> Bye. >> Okay. >> Bye.

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>> Yeah. The minutes. >> Yeah. I'll do it before Peters. >> All right. >> All right. Just a couple uh housekeeping items. Uh one, if you have a phone, please turn it off uh so we don't interrupt.

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Uh number two is there's a couple resolutions that I want to uh get taken care of before we have your application. Uh let's start with the first the minutes of May 7th, 2026. Word members, everyone have a has hopefully has had a chance to review them. There's an lack

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of any comments. I'd ask someone to move them for adoption. >> Is there a second? >> Mr. Scogn seconds. Roll call, please. As to the minutes, >> Miss Andrews, >> yes. >> Mr. Iso, >> yes. >> Mr. Scogno, >> yes. >> Miss Penelli, >> yes. >> Mr. Singh, >> yes.

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>> Miss Furbeck, >> yes. >> Chairman Sullivan, >> yes. And finally, we have two resolutions. Board 46-2025Z. The Bentley Realy Group was major preliminary preliminary and final site plan with DV variance. Councelor, >> thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. This is a resolution granting the

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application for preliminary and final major site plan with D1 use variance and bulk variance approval for property known and designated as block 4185, lot 9.11, aka Old Bridge shopping plaza, Route 9, Oldbridgeidge, New Jersey. >> Board members, you've heard the resolution. Someone moving for adoption, please.

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>> Is there a second? >> Andrews >> moved and second. Roll call, please. Miss Andrews, >> yes. >> Mr. Iso, >> yes. >> Mr. Scogno, >> yes. >> Miss Penelli, >> yes. >> Mr. Singh, >> yes. >> Miss Fbeck, >> yes. >> Chairman Sullivan, >> yes. >> 54-2025Z.

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Uh, Jessica Kriscowski. It's a D4 variance. Mr. Varga. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. This is a resolution granting D4 use variance approval for property known and designated as block 5000.25, lot 41, aka 28 Purdue Road, Old Bridge Township, New Jersey.

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>> Word. Members, you've heard it. Someone want to move adoption? >> Is there a second? >> Andrews second. >> Moved in second again. Roll call, please. >> Miss Andrews, >> yes. >> Mr. Iso, >> yes. >> Mr. Scogno, >> yes. >> Mr. Spinelli, >> yes. >> Mr. Singh, >> yes.

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>> Mr. Fbeck, >> yes. >> Chairman Sullivan, >> yes. It does bring us to our only application this evening. Uh 27-2023Z, Vision Oldbridge LLC. This is the TCD

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zone neighborhood business district. This is block 12261, lot 64. Physical location 3963 County Route 516 here in Oldbridge. Uh bifurcated devariance multif family residential applicant uh

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proposes demolish an existing garden center, construct a single multif family building consisting of 68 apartments including 11 affordable units. This is a continuation. Peter Clauser, Esquire, representing the applicant. Sir, >> good evening, Mr. Chair.

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>> Uh, good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the board, your professional staff, and members of the public. For the record, Peter Clauser with the firm Halurn Pave on behalf of your applicant. Um, I would ask Mr. Varga, are there certain board members that are going to recuse themselves from the application? Yes,

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>> correct, Mr. Claus. There are two board members that are going to abstain and recuse himself, step down from the days for today's application. I believe that's Miss Fernback and Miss Gomez. >> No, >> excuse me. Miss Fenelli. I apologize. >> Miss >> No, I'm staring like directly at your face, too, looking at Miss Gomez's

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chair. >> All right. >> Thank you, ladies. For the record, Miss Fernbach and Miss Spanelli have both recused themselves and are abstaining from the application. >> Thank you, Mr. B. Uh so, Mr. Chair, let's we could do a little bit of

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housekeeping. Um this is the third time that we've appeared in front of this board uh for this application. We seem to do it once a year. We were here in uh early 2024. We were here in late 2025 and now we're um back again here. Uh and

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it's been a series of different reasons that are kind of not important to the application of why um it's it's taken this amount of time. Um but we are proposing uh a relatively different application than what was originally presented from a layout perspective. And

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then also, Mr. Chair, there are um what the applicant is proposing is 54 units. Now, we've reduced the uh density and the number of units. The building is, as you can see from the plan, and Laura I will talk about it has been moved uh to the rear of the property. Um although

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we've reduced the number of uh units overall, we are still maintaining the 11 affordable units and I believe we are part of your affordable housing uh plan uh in order to satisfy your the township's requirements. Um all of the

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units in the building except for the 11 affordable units will be market rate non-aggerrestricted units, regular apartments. The 11 um units that are u affordable as we are proposing that they be age restricted uh one-bedroom units

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um doesn't matter so much for the use variance portion of it. There will be 11 affordable units uh given to the township as part of or provided for the township's use as part of this application. Um as you pointed out, Mr. Chair, and I just would like to clarify

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for the board because I I don't want you to think we're dismissing any questions that you have. This is a bifurcated application, which means that we are asking for use variance only. That has been the way the application is presented from the beginning. Um, that means if the board should act favorably

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on the use variance, we would have to come back to the board for a site plan approval. The reason that I bring that up is you may hear us say a couple of times this evening in response to a question, that's something that we have to handle at site plan approval. Um, for example, um, we have a very nice memo

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from your fire official deals a lot with striping, um, lock boxes, uh, putting communicators on the building. Those are all things that would be designed as part of the site plan uh approval. So, we won't talk too much about that this evening. It's just whether or not you

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feel in this location that the building and the use as an apartment building is appropriate and then if so, we'll engineer it. You should also know that there is preliminary studies that are done by our engineer uh to make sure that what we're presenting to you, we know we can do in reality. Um we

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wouldn't want to waste your time with that. Uh but when it comes time to site plan is when we do all the final grading, all the final measuring of everything. Um and we do that uh based on a law. In the municipal land use law, we are allowed to ask the board for use variance first before we do full

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engineering. Uh it's actually part of our municipal land use law statute. Um and so it's a normal procedure that we follow. And I'm sure the board has seen other uh bifurcated applications before. Um, knowing that there are five board members this evening,

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um, we have a use variance and we require a supermajority vote, which means I have to have five affirmative votes. It would be malpractice for me to allow the board to vote five out of five on a use variance application. Um, so what we're going to do is present the

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testimony of our uh, engineer this evening. We'll present the testimony of our architect this evening, and we'll present the traffic testimony this evening. And then we're going to hold on our planner um and we're going to ask that the board open the matter up to the public uh so we can hear the public's comments and then I'm going to ask that

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the application be carried to the next available date at that time. Hopefully we'll have figured out a way to have seven voting members on the board. I I know the board is is working on that. Um, and I in constant communication with um your administrative offices in VINA

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uh in that regard and we understand um uh that. Uh and then when we have that, I'll always produce a transcript. We've already produced the transcripts from the other two hearings and then when we know we're all ready, we'll come back. We'll have Allison testify. Um the board, the the public will have another

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opportunity to speak because I'm presenting new testimony. Um and then we'll ask for a vote at that time when we feel that we have a full composition of the board and uh we've presented our entire case. So this evening you're going to hear from Laura Leaten from Crest Engineering who was previously

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sworn uh and accept it. Um you're going to hear from Michael Ta Nicole from his office was previously sworn and accepted. So we'll have to ask Mike to be sworn again. Certainly swore Laura in again if you'd like. Um, and then our last witness this evening will be Frank Misovich, who again was sworn, I

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believe, last time, but it probably is best practice to just swear everybody, again, I would just ask that we limit to just make sure their licenses are still intact, and um, Lauraai is an engineer, Mike is an architect, and Frank is an engineer specializing in traffic. We'll

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go through those three witnesses, and we'll sit back and listen uh to any comments that the board has and that the public have. And um that's how I intend to proceed this evening if it's acceptable to the board and you Mr. Chairman. >> It certainly is. And before you swear in your f your first witness swear in

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>> we're going to bring Vina in. >> Mr. W uh needs to be sworn in. >> You swear affirm tell truth nothing but the truth to help you guys. >> Can you just please again state your name for the record as well? >> Vina. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Back to you counselor. >> Thank you very much. There's a couple of things in the professional report I

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would just like to get out of the way and I I probably owe it to Mr. Varga. Um, but there was a request for a phase one environmental study. We submitted that to the board back in 2024. And there was also um a question about the construction in the JCPNL easement,

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which is older than dirt. And um I I have that I submitted it to the board attorney previously. I think that has since changed. Um so I'll provide that to Mr. Varga uh to answer those two questions, but we did address those uh two items previously. Um but I just thought I would let the board know that.

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And I I have to send that over to Mr. Vora and I'll I'll do that. Uh so if I could let's get Lauraai reworn please and ask her if her license is still good and let her provide her testimony. >> Do you swear from tell truth nothing but the truth to help you got it? >> I do. >> Please just state by your name for the last name for the record please.

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>> Laura Tatin T is in Tom O Ten and my license is still in good standing. I just renewed it in April. >> M certainly accept her expertise. She testified previously on this matter. >> Thank you Mr. Chair. Laura, I if you could just take the board through um

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where the property is located, what we're proposing, and just a quick comparison, number of units and location of the building to what was previously proposed. >> Uh certainly the uh site is located on the corner of Higgins Road and Old Madawan Road, also known as Route 518.

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It's known as >> 56. >> Oh my goodness. There's 518 over by where I live. My bad. play the number later. >> Lot 64 in block uh 12261 on the official tax maps. It contains about 3.26 acres.

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Just briefly, the the uh I know you all know it, but it's been a lot of time since we were here. It's was an existing garden center. It contains a significant amount of existing buildings, storage tents, storage containers, and also a

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portion of paved Higgins Road, gravel, Parkway, driveway, and brick areas. Um, it is about 95.1% impervious, which is the opposite. The landscape ratio is 049 right now. The

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structures and buildings cover over about 24 sorry 25,000 square feet. Um and as you recall the site gent gently slopes from east to west in direction and as was mentioned there is

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a JCPNL power easement along one side of the property. Um it's a pretty flat property and the site presently drains to an existing drainage system along Kaggins. And as you would suspect there are it's it was an occupied site so

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there's existing water sewer electric gas and other utilities are available there. There are no wetlands or flood planes per the published uh records. Uh the closest stream is a tributary of tenants brooks some 800 ft

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from the property. Uh and as I mentioned other constraints are the JCPNL easement and tower. The easement language is from the 1930s. I guess that is older than dirt and does not prohibit any construction under the easement. Um, and

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as I noted, Higgins Road uh is located on part of the site. Um, the zoning is Town Center District 1B where apartments are conditionally permitted use. Uh, we need

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variances because apartments are located on the ground floor. uh variance for height which will be more described to you by the architect, uh variance for floor area ratio, variance for building footprint size, and variance for the

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landscape ratio. Uh the variance for distance to maximum build line from the curb. Uh and there will be an analysis the next time we see you with regard to uh the planning on that. But I will talk a little bit more about those in the

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proposal. As as noted, it's a three-story apartment building. There are 54 apartments of which 11 are affordable units. Uh the building has been moved away from uh 516 Madawan Road

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and now is closer to the rear property line so that the circulation surrounds the property and there's an opportunity to buffer um more around the building as well as there's buffering in the back to the

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neighbor and there's only one line of parking back there. Whereas with the previous application all the parking was behind the building near the residential uses. Uh additionally there are uh 108 parking

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spaces where 106 are required which includes five handicap parking spaces and four EV spaces. So when you take into account the the uh ability to count two spaces per one where you have EV spaces that means that bringing the

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total regulatory number of spaces to 112 uh where 106 is required and additionally uh before the applica the uh uh building had a trash compactor in >> try and stay on the mic or live.

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>> Oh am I off the mic? I'm sorry. Sorry to interrupt you. >> Well, it's not plugged in, so that's nice. I can just move it. Um the prior application had a indoor trash

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compactor facility and the um barrels were brought out. This one has a trash um enclosure that's basically selfs served. the members, the residents will have to bring out their own trash to the

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dumpster enclosure. And it it's set up so that uh whether it's a front or rear loading trash collection, it will be able to come in, circulate, pick up the trash, and leave. Uh so that's um Oh, and I was going to say that there is a

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vendor delivery area in the rear of the building, too. The prior application had a space kind of in the front of the building be uh oh actually on the side of the building the way it was back then. Um there are the circulation is a

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little bit different. Before there was no circulation across the front of the building. Now there's circulation around the entire building with the access point in the same location as the prior application. The access point to Higgins Road has been moved a little bit closer

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to the intersection with Route 516 um to accommodate a better circulation pattern on site. There's also a large green space in the front of the building with an amenity for sitting outside. The building itself in addition to the

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apartments contains a management office as well as uh a exercise room and some other amenities that will be more completely described by the architect. There is a uh sidewalk system that

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connects the spaces to the various different um entrances and the uh parking is easily accessible system of 9 by8 spaces with 24 foot wide aisles accepting of course the ADA

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spaces which follow the uh ADA rules. Um, while this is not an engineered plan as was spoken about by um, Mr. by the attorney, I can tell you that the uh, based upon

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an disturbed area of a little over 3 acres, it is determined that this project is a major project per NJ and the township land use ordinance. Therefore, stormwater management measures are necessary uh for this

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project. Um the positive in terms of storm water management is that the impervious will be reduced from the 95% I spoke of previously to about 71%. So that in and of itself is a positive

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because it will reduce the volume of runoff coming off the site. Um, and it will also without any BMPPS at all, but we still have to provide for some water quality because we're changing the

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system of of uh pavement. Additionally, we will improve groundwater quality. Oh, sorry, groundwater recharge will be improved by the reduction in imperous surface. Um

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and as noted previously, the uh utilities are available and a lighting landscaping design would be part of a site plan. But as you can see, there's room for street trees along both uh

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roadways and uh and some con um columner type of trees and a fence along the rear property line to buffer the neighbors that are off of Higgins Road back in that area from the

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parking. And as I stated before, a lot of the parking is no longer directly adjacent to that uh that part of the of Old Bridge. Um I think that that's really all I have to offer. >> Let's just go through a couple of

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things, Laura, if we could. If you could just briefly, I know it's really more of a site plan I uh application, but we now have full circulation around the building. Could you talk a little bit about the width of that roadway and how you're confident that emergency vehicles and trash can circulate that without an issue?

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>> Yes, we actually uh used auto turn. I didn't bring it, but I am confident. We used auto turn to see if a ladder truck could circulate the building and it can. Uh so we feel very confident that emergency access is provided to the building. >> The purpose of that testimony, Mr.

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Chairman, is just to say that this isn't a pie in the sky. We know we can we could can do this. Um the L that we have as part of the plan is 0.29 and that's based on what you're estimating will be right away dedication.

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>> Yes, it is. So as you can see, Higgins Road over here is inside this blue line is uh the existing uh lot line. And so Higgins Road, it all of this we're estimating that this is

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the lane area that would be dedicated of course and and the same as in the front too. There's a dedication that the uh county is going to want as well and we've done our best to estimate that dedication. There have been a number of emails back and forth with Middle Sex

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which Mr. Msovvich will talk more about. So that F is based upon the future uh right-of-way lines uh not the not the existing right-of-way lines

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>> at at 29 and as I said before the existing is 049. So we're certainly making the situation better for this project even though it doesn't reach 40. >> It's a it's a vast improvement over what is out there now. >> Correct.

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Um there are a couple of waiverss identified on page five of the report with regard to curb radi and and we expect that those are subsumed within the use variance but they would be addressed during uh site plan approval when you have all your grading and your design. >> That would be correct.

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>> And you're comfortable from reviewing the fire marshall's report that you can comply in the future with his requirements as far as striping knockboxes adding uh repeaters on the building and those items. Yes, absolutely. We can meet all those types

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of requirements. >> There was a comment in the report regarding parallel parking spaces on Higgins Road and we think that that might have just been a leftover from the the original report. There are no parking spaces on Higgins Road. >> That is correct. They were removed with the second uh submission.

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>> Okay. And there was a general comment 10 in the report which now I thought I had memorized. That is something we would address during site plan and I'm going to find that. >> So landscaping perhaps. >> Yeah. Well, I want to come back to that. Oh, those are all the uh the circulation

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and the rightway items which would be part of site plan. Um but you you've considered in your plan those anticipated dedications. >> Correct. >> Okay, Mr. Chair, I don't think I have any more questions for Miss Tot and

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she's available to the board and your professionals for any questions you may have. >> Miss, >> so with the trash enclosure, right, is there a way to have the trash enclosure within the building like some sort of

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collection system only because now your trash collection the area is closer to the residence. So, if we can either accommodate it in the building because I've seen that happen for many of the

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apartments or maybe even move it away from um the residential properties towards the front and then have a nice screening and landscaping around it. It's certainly something I think we can work with on >> when you come back for the site plan

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should the board act favorably because you also have that delivery service area at the back. Maybe you could have your trash enclosure or a trash collection room or something wherein the trucks can stop right there collected so that you

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don't have an outside accessory structure. Yeah, I know one of the comments we had from the public last time was that there's an issue with people throwing trash out on 516. >> Correct. And >> and we wanted to kind of shield that back behind the building. So, we didn't

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contribute to that. >> I think the best would be to incorporate it in the building design only because in in similar setups, right, many of times it happens that people go and throw furniture in the area, they throw out stuff there and it becomes a

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nuisance. rather if you have it within the building that's what most of the newer buildings have since you already have that delivery kind of an area at the back maybe uh Mike can uh design the building such that it's incorporated within the building design

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>> dy noted >> and uh my god I lost my thought uh you did see the landscaping comment right so should the board act favorably

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Um I would want uh one of the condition of approval that the buffer within the uh to the rear side where uh where you have residences. We should have the township uh engineer

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consultant planner should have the ability to review with you the landscaping in that area so that there is adequate screening and we get to choose um the type of plantation that goes in. So I I saw that comment and and

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of course we always work with you but I think that would probably be more appropriate not as a resolution compliance issue on a use variance but that's something that we present as part of the site plan >> as long as you agree to work with us on the land because I know it's a critical component especially when you are next

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to residents and I know um sim same developer same team we uh like you on it we worked on vision old bridge 4 we came up with a landscape ape uh buffer at the back. We want to see something similar. >> We'll do the same thing. I just wanted

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to clarify in your report that to me it didn't it didn't um seem cohesive that it be part of this resolution compliance, but that it be something that we do as part of the site plan and that this application would obviously be conditioned upon the applicant returning for site plan. So yes, we will work with

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you. The only reason I suggested that it would be a part of the condition is so that we can work beforehand with you guys when you come back for the site plan and have that flushed out so that the board can see it before you present it to us. >> That's fair. >> That's fair.

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>> Um I have no further questions for Laurelai. >> Thank you, Mr. Jetalt. Anything? >> Um yeah. Yeah, a couple couple items here that pertain to the site plans and and this might kind of bl bleed over into the traffic stuff, but I'll uh you

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know, Frank can get into it perhaps in some cases. Uh I know you mentioned uh that there has been coordination with the county. Of course, I haven't seen any of the correspondence and I assume you know what they've seen so far. They're they're they're buying into um

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you know, rightway dedication. as possible any kind of improvements that are required. Um I don't think that there's at this point any inclination to signalize the intersection, but I would assume the county would have to accept

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the analysis that that's not required if if it's it's not done. Um so just those, you know, I mean these are issues that can be handled later on. >> Well, and Frank is prepared to speak to some of that. >> Okay. Yeah. Um and part of our you the

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county doesn't have a category for use fairance application so it's all very preliminary in the discussion with them. >> Yeah, I understand it. Uh and and some of the a lot of the other comments are probably going to be fleshed out further in site plan but basically >> I'll bring them up now so you can make

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sure that this is addressed once you go to site plan submission. uh sight triangles are going to be needed both at the driveways on on 516 and on Higgins Road and internally just to make sure uh make sure that landscape isn't

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you know and of course inside a site you have a very low speed that you design for but still have to make sure that there's no um you know landscaping proposed landscaping that's put in those areas those kind of things. Um the uh

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the other thing that I saw was on the um I had some again these are comments that can be addressed later uh about stop bars and stop signs double yellow lines understood they don't have to be you know addressed right now but they will

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need to be addressed in the site plan submission. So, in our just while you're on that, I did ask Lauraai if she looked at those comments and I would just ask her to confirm that she's very comfortable she'll be able to incorporate those uh those striping and and signage that you had pointed out in

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your report as part of the site plan. >> Yes. And actually, we thank you for those comments because we have a checklist now should the board grant approval when we go to site plan. >> Okay, great. Um now I think there was another issue that came up. Uh if

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there's additional parking required for for a service delivery um you kind you know I guess that's basically taken care of by the delivery area back there. Okay. >> Um also uh and this will this can be handled. I know Laurel I mentioned that auto turn was performed uh wasn't

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submitted when it goes to site plan submission. We will require the actual autoturn analyses for the vehicles that will be allowed on the site. the one the fire truck will have to be based on whatever design that the fire department provides and uh you know they so they

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have to approve it you know in addition to it being part of the submission that comes to me uh there'll be uh some kind of no truck posting for any vehicles that exceed the typical you know vehicles that come into the site uh just to make sure that you know no tractor

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trailers pull into the site or anything like that. Um, other than that, I think the other the other comments were basically traffic related and you know, I can I can get into him after Frank. >> Yeah, we'll have Frank come up and talk about that. >> I also have a pretty good system and I know the chair and the board members

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certainly know this that we'll we'll go over and sit with Mr. Miller in his office and they usually give us uh >> whatever the current knowest bestest truck is and they give us a template that we take back and and then Lauraai uses that. So, it's not actually like even a guess. We actually have templates

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from your from your >> and you're checking with them because you know that right now they may have a truck that's smaller is their maximum but they may be you know they're looking to buy a really large truck. >> Yep. >> And that way they have the opportunity to tell you oh we're going to buy such and such a truck next year and you know

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here's and then you can use that as your your guide in designing it. >> Yeah I I always do that. >> Yep. Good. Okay. Thanks. >> See if the board members have any questions for you >> Mr. Singh. anything. >> Describe now. >> Oh yes. Did you say the affordable

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promise or age related? >> Age restricted. >> Which is what age? >> Uh 55 and older or whatever the current federal regulation is. But yeah. >> And no children. Is that what you mean? >> That means no. That means no children. Yeah. And they're they're onebedrooms, which is how you do that. And I I I'll

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talk more about this with Vina as we go through the process should the board grant it. Um, but we want to make the affordables the most beneficial to the township for, you know, if there's bonus credits that are available. I don't know that much about it. I have experts that I work with with that and you have your

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expert in VINA, but um that's the goal is always that's why the age restricted and the rental can sometimes be helpful for the municipality, but I don't want to speak out of turn. But yeah, >> Mr. No, sir. >> Mr. Andrew. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm concerned. I thought that I

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heard uh your mic. >> She's on. >> I'm sorry. I thought that I heard um Miss Totten say that the um the fire trucks can circulate the building and and now you said that there's something about getting a template which would uh

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be the idea cuz I was looking at the plans when I was looking at that site plan. It looked like it was rather narrow and I'm extremely concerned about fire and fire trucks having lost a brother-in-law uh as a fireman. So uh that's why I want to know exactly uh are

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you absolutely certain that any fire truck would be able to circulate through the area? >> We use the ladder truck as the most recent uh template that we have gotten from I think probably last fall from uh your fire department. But we will also

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meet with him again and get the the newest if there is a newer one. And I would it's my license on the line. I'm going to make sure firet trucks can get around that. >> Okay. And another thing I didn't understand uh when I looked at your site

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plan, I saw there was like an indent where that would be for the uh parallel parking for deliveries with the 4hour uh restriction. >> Well, no, the 4hour restriction was in the report based on parking on Higgins Road. We removed we removed the parking

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on Higgins Road and we created a loading area on our site and that is for the UPS delivery for the Door Dash guy >> and that would be going in from Higgins Road. >> It's actually at the rear of the building, Miss Andrews. Uh kind of right in that corner there.

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>> So you could come in from either It has nothing to do with your exterior. There you go. It's Lauraai is highlighting it >> right there. So that's where it is. So it's it's internal to the site. >> Okay. And I'm I'm concerned because where that's going to be that you have

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that quick turn onto the rest of Higgins Road that's pretty close and that road is very very narrow. >> No, Miss Andrews, that's not by Higgins Road. It's at the bottom corner of the property. So then they'll be coming out into the normal circulation of the site.

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There are no parking spaces or anything out on Higgins Road. >> Okay. >> That was a typo, I think, in the professional report. Oh, okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. No, we wanted to keep it on site. >> Thank you. >> Okay, >> counselor, anything? >> Nothing for me, Mr. Chairman.

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>> Thank you, Laura. You can step down. I would ask if Mike would join me, please. >> Thank you, Laura. All right, sir. Just raise your right hand when you get a chance. Do you swear or affirm and tell the truth and nothing but the truth? I help you God. >> I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last for the record.

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>> Uh name is Michael Tesa. Last name T SA, licensed architect in good standing in the state of New Jersey since 1996. President and principal architect of Michael V. Tesa Architect, Manalapa, New Jersey. I've had the pleasure. >> We'll accept your expertise. >> Thank you very much.

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>> Thank you, Mike. Um Moren is is manning the computer. So, and she you you know give some direction as to anything you want brought up, but if you could just just take us through the building that you've uh designed, please. >> Uh and council, just before you begin,

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was this one submitted with the application? >> Yeah, this is all submitted. I think the only thing we're going to probably come up against that wasn't submitted uh was our exhibit of the uh rendering. >> And when we get to that, we can we can mark I'm sorry, Mr. Bargain, we can mark that. >> Perfect.

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Okay, good evening. What we have on board right now is drawing PB1. This is the first floor plan of a threestory building. Uh the building is completely residential. This floor plan here has a main entrance right in the inner corner here for access into a lobby area with a

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carter going left and going down to the right. The first floor and all three floors are a mix of one, two, and threebedroom units. As Mr. Claus indicated we have 11 affordable all onebedroom units. The remaining units

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will be two-bedroom and threebedroom. We'll have two I'm sorry, four three-bedroom units in the building. Also within the residential units will be um an on-site super who lives in one of the units that will be on the third floor. On the first floor here, we have

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a management/leasasing office that will be accessed from the back of the building. This is that area that we were just talking about where the the drop off pickoff for Uber or Uber Eats and deliveries would be back here. So, we're actually going to create another entrance. We have an entrance

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into a mail room and package room here, but we're also going to create another carter that leads us to this back area so deliveries and and the occupants can come out and receive their foods. Based on the suggestion of of uh Miss Swant, we would try to incorporate an internal

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trash room in the same area because it's adjacency to that loading pickup zone. I think that would be the most advantageous place for it. Uh we have an elevator located off of the main lobby. We have a two egress stairs, one in each end of the building here and here. All

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of all of the apartments will be handicap accessible. The building will be completely handicap accessible. The elevator will be an ADA compliant elevator. The building will be fully sprinklered and the upper two floors if we go up to the second floor which would

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be PB2 Morin. >> Thank you. So again as you can see it's it primarily resembles the first floor. Same thing with the third floor. The difference is in this corner here we have a fitness area. uh spin bikes,

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treadmills, yoga area, uh meditation space, and we also create a small storage area for the occupants, which is this space here. So, it's a limited number of additional storage outside of their unit space that they would be separately, I guess, rented by the

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owner, but we have a space like this on the second and third floor. The third floor has a space just above the fitness area that will be a game room that'll have ping pong, um, darts, pool tables, etc. Lounge area for the occupants to

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possibly work from home, go out and have a cup of coffee and sit with their neighbors. That primarily describes the inside of the building. If we could just scroll, that's the third floor. This is again see the same floor plan is a mix of one,

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two and threebedroom units. Storage area here and this is your game room I was just speaking about. If we just go right to the rendering be more the elevations it's more appealing if we do the elevations you can see here is going to be a mix of stucco um

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ornamental arch work and and balconies throughout the whole project. Uh the architecture very indicative of what the owner has done in other of his in other buildings that he has in township. And if we go to the rendering, that's probably a separate file, Moren,

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that I sent earlier. >> Oh, yes. >> No worries. I think that's the one we got to mark as an exhibit. Oh, appreciate it. >> We're going to have to put you on the staff. >> So, this is it. Thank you. This got to be marked, Peter.

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>> Yeah, should be marked. >> I don't know where we are. >> I actually did not bring my notes from the last two meetings as well. >> Um, >> you know what? We can coordinate that. But we'll call this a question mark. And then >> a question mark. >> Yeah. And then we'll I'll I'll I'll I'll go through the transcripts and tell you what the last uh number was. I should

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have done that. That's not your fault. That's mine. >> Well, we'll mark that one as well. >> How about we just mark them? Um we'll mark it A1 June 18th. >> Okay. >> A1 June 18th will be the rendering presented by Miss Tatton. A2 June 18th

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will be the rendering print presented by Mr. Ta. >> Hey, you're good in your feet. Well done. making it until I make it. >> Uh, sorry, Mike. >> What we have in front of us is a a 3D color rendering taken from the corner of Higgins, which would be over here in 516, which is this main roadway. As you

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can see, the building has been placed towards the Rio. Um, as Miss Tan had indicated, uh, this is an artist rendition of landscaping put up along the front of the site. You can see the threetory structure back here with a series of arches, um, mansard roof. We

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have some gables and some parapits. The top of the roof is heights measured to the top from grade the average grade across the front of the building to the top of the the roof. So in this case it would be a flat roof behind the mansards. So a height we have right now since we really don't have any grades

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established is at 34t 4 in. Um that may fluctuate when we get the grading finalized but that's where we are. We do have some of these architectural elements. So the top of this reddish color roofed mansard is 36 ft and from finished floor and then the peak of this

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higher hard to tell in this situation but this this ridge actually comes up a little bit higher than the mansar just for accent purposes and that's approximately 38t 3 in above the ground floor finish floor. >> Just pause there for a second Mike. So

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Mr. Chairman, what's relevant about that and and board members is the last time that we had presented the application, we anticipated something that was greater than 10 ft or 10% of what's permitted in the zone, which would have been its own devariance. In this instance, it's a bulk variance. Uh so

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it's subsumed within the use variance and as we come back for site plan, if additional variance relief for the variance is modified for the height of the building, um it'll have to be addressed by this board again. So, I just wanted to it's not a separate devariance this time. We've eliminated

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that to the best of our ability and hopefully all the way by the time we get done with it. Right. And the other difference is in this elevation here, we have added more cultured stone at the base of the building to add some different uh materials. So, it's not just primarily one or two materials. So, and if you looked at the exhibits that

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we presented, I think it's PB uh PB4, that exhibit will show the the level of cultured stone at the base of the building where it goes up. It basically infills this whole vertical element here. So, you have a vertical element of cultured stone, stucco,

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cultured stone along the bottom, and then series of vertical elements with the cultured stone. And along the base, we have some arches that supporting the balconies up above. This is consistent on all four sides of the building. The the um the appearance is very residential, very fitting for the

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community, and again, it's been very successful for the owner at other sites in Old Bridge Township. And that would conclude my presentation. Oh, one last thing. I'm sorry. All the units are designed with self-contained heating and air conditioning units, washers, and dryers. The only mechanical units would

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be on top of the flat roof that would be concealed by this mansard. There would be an interior roof ladder that would allow for access to the roof to service the mechanical equipment so we don't have that on the ground humming and creating noises and and so forth. >> Thank you. Sorry,

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>> Mike. I have no further questions. He's available to the board for any questions you may have. >> Mr. So the one question I had and uh I think the architecturals we can finalize once you come back if the board acts

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favorably when you come back with the site plan we can talk about in much more in detail but the one thing I noted is your leasing office is to the rear side right? >> Yes. I think moving it to the front

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along either 516 or Higgins would add a character because I was seeing it's all glass and you have more um like windows. So it's just a thought. Um >> would you say that again Vina? I think I know I I didn't understand that very

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first. So, Miss Miss Sant's indicating that we have the management leasing office at the rear of the building, and she's asking if we can contemplate moving that to the front with larger glass and windows >> because it'll add a different uh character. It'll break the monotony of

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the uh elevation on the ground floor because otherwise every all the features are identical. But if you enhance the you can enhance the corner either on this side or the other side with the leasing office being in front, it'll add

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uh it'll break the monotony of uh the layout. >> Okay, that's something we definitely can work with. The reason we put it back here is you could see the awkward shape that's created in this back area here. It became a little difficult to get some residential units in that area. So

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that's why we basically put the flex the amenity spaces in these corners. But we can work with you to see if we can come up with an area in the front corner that that we can have facing street. >> I don't know. >> Let's talk about it. >> And then the other thing was with the

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elevations. I do want to work with you like usual uh because there is a style that we have been trying to maintain in Oldbridge when we did the Edgewood apartments which is on route 9 we

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recently approved it I think it was last last year end of last year we approved it uh the planning board approved it we have Avalon Bay uh I'm not a big fan of Renaissance so uh but there are a couple

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of them which are our favorites and we try to mimic and maintain that style. Would you be willing to work with us on finalizing those elevations? >> Absolutely. >> Yes. >> Perfect. So, uh, chairman, I have no further questions.

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>> Mr. Tetwell, >> I have no questions on this. >> Thank you, Mr. Singh. Mr. Scott. >> Yes, sir. >> Sure. One elevator. >> One elevator. Yes, sir. >> And staircases. How many?

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>> Uh, two staircases. There's one down here and one down here. >> And going back to the delivery spot. >> Delivery spot's back here. >> So, if um if I lived in apartment two and I'm getting a package, I have to

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come downstairs to retrieve that or is there going to be >> Well, there's two types of packages. say FedEx comes and makes a delivery or UPS or or um Amazon. This is a package room on the first floor off of the main lobby that could be either accessed from the main lobby, which is very typical in all

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departments that we've worked on and we've referenced and for design purposes. But if you had to come down and get like your food delivery, right, Uber Eatats or something, you're going to come back down here into a controlled hallway so people just can't enter the building and wander. So they'll either we'll have a buzzer system where they

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type it in, we'd come down, pick up the delivery, and go back up to our apartment. >> And then if the wife ordered 20 things from Amazon, is there going to be a storage spot until somebody comes home? >> Yeah, that's this room right here. They have storage lockage and package lockers for um deliveries.

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>> How many lockers? Just wondering. >> Right now, it's very conceptual, but the space here is very large. So it's probably at least one one locker for the amount of units. So we have what, 54 units. So we should have at least that many. >> Thank you. Okay, >> that's it. Mrs. Andrews, >> nothing now. Thank you,

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>> councelor. >> Nothing for me, Mr. Chairman. >> Mr. Chair, Mike, you can step down. I would ask if Frank could join me in >> Thank you very much. >> Let's have Frank sworn. Please raise your hand. And do you swear affirm, tell the truth, nothing but the truth. I hope you got it. >> I do.

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>> Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> It's Frank Msovich. It's spelled M I S K O V I C H. >> Over to you, counselor. >> Thank you very much. Um Frank has testified in front of this board a number of times. >> Yes, he has a current license, I assume.

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>> Yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay, so >> recognize his expertise. >> Frank, if you could just take us through a little bit of your analysis. I I know we've done this before and um maybe have a a conversation with the board's traffic expert about uh the updated

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comments on the report. >> Let me just start out that we've done a number of reports since we got involved with this project back to fe February 2023. There's been review comments by your board professionals. They've asked for additional information, further

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analyses. We provided updated reports. So every review order that they submitted, we provided written responses to each one of those. >> I say that because what we come down to is a traffic analysis report dated,

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excuse me, April of 2024 that combines and now combines every one of the prior reports. included the traffic counts, additional analyses,

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crash records, etc. So that is the basis that this report is my presentations be based on. Uh we also provided an addendum to that study which looked at the changes due to this reduction in

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units from 68 to 54 units. And that was just basically a generic one that said, "Look, this generates x number of trips less and the parking complies with the ordinance so that everything that was included in the prior reports remains

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valid. And more importantly, we use that 68 unit report as a worst case scenario to provide a conservative analysis to the board to show that those impacts are going to be probably greater than with the reduced units. We wanted to provide

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that as a conservative evaluation to the board. Uh, excuse me, I've been a little sick here. Uh, as far as background, we did traffic counts for over a week period. We had machine out on 516 where

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we counted traffic for a week's period, 15minute intervals, uh, 7 days a week. We then did manual turning moving counts at 516 and Catrell Road and also at Catrell Road and 516 intersection. And we included counts for the morning

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weekday morning, excuse me, AM peak hour, weekday PM peak hour, and also the Saturday peak hour, midday. We compared the counts that we did during these periods uh with the traffic volume data that was presented, and they all fall within the peak periods. That was a

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question raised by your traffic consultant whether our the manual counts were consistent with the the data collected and were representative of peak hour volumes. So that we did confirm that and that was provided in not only that report but in prior

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responses to his comments. Uh we then projected traffic out to a future year which at the time we did the report we projected to 2029. Uh I I've discussed this with the applicant. and he says that is still a reasonable date to expect that this

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project could be completed. Um we use traffic growth rates that the DOT uses actually increasing traffic by 2.75% on 516 1% on Hickens Road which is what they recommend. Uh but in addition to

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that we added traffic from the control road development which is at the corner of 516 and trail road in the southeast corner. That was for a 37,000 square foot uh shopping center uh which then came back with a reduced square footage

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on the shopping center and I believe they even suggested something less but we included the full 37,000 square foot shopping center trip generation in our future analysis and that has not been constructed to date and the status of that at this point and my discussion

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with the township uh engineers office is it's still up near whether that's going to go ahead at that point but it is included in there. So if that does not go ahead our future traffic volumes will actually be would reduce and our resultant impacts with our site traffic

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would be low less. So we use that as a worst case scenario. Uh we then looked at the traffic generation as I indicated we used the 68 unit prior application as a worst case scenario and use traffic generation for

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that based on the IT data in their 11th edition of the trip generation manual. uh your traffic consultant uh submitted a report dated yesterday when she questioned well we now have the 12th edition which was published in August or

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September of 2025 which came after our reports. So uh I did not at that time in my responses want to deal with comparing 12th to 11th. I wanted apples to apples. So everything was based on the 11th edition. However, I did look at that

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12th and I provided some data for him uh earlier today. Basically that data shows that there is no difference between the 11th and the 12th edition for most of the peak periods except when I look at

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the peak hour of the generator on a Friday PM or peak hour generator on a Saturday it increases only about four trips on the weekday and seven trips during the p during the Saturday. So that's not a significant difference. The

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important thing is that it is substantially less than we included in our traffic analysis. Actually ranging from 18 to about 21% less traffic generation from what we analyzed. So I think we provided a conserved valuation

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of what the traffic impacts could be. And looking at the traffic generation it looks at several different factors. They look at a average rate of the data. They looked at a regression analysis which is a fitted curve and they look at the data

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to see which ones might be better or or better fits the the the application. They also have data for weekday rush hour traffic. The typical amm carriers same thing on Saturday. They also have what they call the peak hour of the generator which when the site might

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generate its most traffic. uh just consider like a school it generates midafter afternoon not like 3:00 p.m. let's say compared to the evening rush hour which might be 4 to 6. So we looked at all those factors and we looked at the worst case of which is the peak hour

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of the generator both for the weekday and for the weekend and again those factors ranged at 18 to 21% uh excuse me that the peak hour in a generator really

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is about 11 to 25% higher than the weekday peak hour. So again we used the higher traffic numbers, the higher trip generation to evaluate the traffic analysis. We then did a capacity analysis at the 16 and control road intersection. Uh the

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impacts at intersection are minimal. Only the westbound left turn lane that goes onto CRO northbound has an increase of about 1.5 3.4 4 seconds, but we're not adding traffic to that particular movement, but

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that's a minimal increase. The levels of service remain the same. At the Hickens Road intersection, uh the Saturday rush hour, there's no change in the operation levels at that intersection. Uh during the morning, we go from a

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level of service to C to D, only 3.6 increase in delay, and D to E in the PM, 5.7 increases. So, we're still a reasonable increase in traffic, but it's delay based upon the volumes of traffic on 516.

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Uh the 516 and driveway inter on the site driveway intersection, excuse me, goes from level is the level of service level service C. Uh so that's still operating at a very good level of service. Uh the problem is on the

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Higgins road approach that were a level of service uh E D and E if you look at the left turn movements. There was a comment made about separating that for left and right turn lane which would improve the level of

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service to the right turn significantly going for a level service E to B. But the left turn obviously would have the same type of delay trying to make that left turn out onto uh 516. it will still be a level of service D. Uh so that is

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something that the county I guess and the town could review at site plan stage whether we need the two two lanes on that approach. However, we do have the width on on our site to accommodate that particular improvement. I I'll come back to the site driveway.

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Good. We have the plan up there. We also did a crash analysis. We asked for accident data at at 516 and Catrell Road at 516 Hickens Road and along 516 along our site frontages. And that was up through uh some mid to late December of

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2025. We submitted an updated crash analysis report dated December 1st, 2025. Basically over this four year almost fiveyear period, four years 10 months, there are only 12 crashes along that stretch of 516. Uh, two occurred within

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the gas station next to us, not on the roadway, and six were basically due to weather related crashes. Uh, based upon the police reports, there were only three right angle crashes right at the intersection of 516 and Higgins Road, but those were all uh driver error

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related. That was in the police reports. So from a uh practical standpoint, the roadway geometry and physical conditions at that at the intersection are not contributing to the accidents. Um we have adequate sight distance in either direction. So it's operating within a

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reasonable level of safety. There are comments regarding the county improvements. I had discussion with the county planner and the county's traffic engineer and I did get an email from them regarding rightaway improvements as that was in an

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email the day dated November 14, 2025. What they told me was the county requirements now are to provide a 12oot travel lane and 8ft shoulder in each direction on 516 in this area. They want a 5-ft sidewalk separated from the curb

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by approximately 3 to 5 feet and show an additional two feet of rideway behind that sidewalk. So that results in about a 30 to 32 foot wide rideway dedication from center line. The varian plan shows 50 ft. So we have more than enough room

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on that to accommodate anything that the county might requires further improvements. And historically what the counties now were requiring is left turn lanes on most intersections and roadway projects. We have to do a further evaluation for them. But as a worst case

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if they required a left turn lane at say Higgins Road intersection heading westbound. We can accommodate that without affecting the plan as you see here you know today. Uh and as a point of reference at the Ge Park uh

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residences further to the east that is a 40 foot wide dedication from centerline and that was the county requirement and I did work on that project. They did not require left turn lane at that point. So I did not foresee this at the 516 at our driveway intersection but that's

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something that we'll evaluate further when we get to site plan and go meet with the county. As Lauri mentioned that we have uh 106 108 parking spaces where 106 are required. So that's physical parking spaces. So we meet the RSIs

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requirements. If you consider the electric vehicle charging station uh credits, we actually have 112 physical parking spaces exceed that requirement. Now we also looked at the peak demands based on it studies and it shows that we

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would have uh 50 to 68 occupied spaces at peak times. So the 108 spaces are more than adequate to handle the anticipated parking demand. So I think and in summary basically the houses that we

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used and presented for the 68 dwelling units is much greater impact than with the reduced 54 dwelling unit development that's presented here and I presented that testimony is that seems reasonable that with the lower traffic volumes that

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the impacts would be less but that did not quantify that. It just seemed to be a reasonable estimate in my my opinion. Uh I also would point out I want to discuss the driveway on the Higgins Road because right now we know we have that

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sharp horizontal curve to the south of our driveway. The driveway now has been moved further towards 516 uh than was previously presented. Um but we also looked at sight lines because now this curve will be flattened where

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it's sharp. Now they'll be slightly flattened out along our site frontage. Also, we have sight lines that go across this grass area towards the south. We don't impact the parking areas. And my preliminary calculations show we we

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comply with at least a 35 mile design speed where Higgins Road is 25 mile 25 miles per hour posted. So we would have to work at site plan stage to ensure that any of the landscaping is at below a 30 inch height and verify some of the

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the elevations but I believe that that is adequate sight lines can be provided from that driveway especially with the roadway improvements that it Frank >> I yes I apologize I've been a little under the weather

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>> thank you very much uh Mr. Chair uh Mr. Mr. Mskovich is available for your board and board professionals. >> Thank you. >> Um I think and you know through the whole process when you know as as these various submissions have come in Frank has answered these questions along the

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way and you know including his most recent one. The only one I had outstanding Frank I I just I did I did hear you mention about other site development in the area. You mentioned this shopping center there the there's nothing as far as you can tell. No, the town has no other uh approved

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developments that have come up in the last three years. >> As of July of last year, I did contact and there was no other development, okay, that was impact in this area. I did not check from that point. >> Okay. >> U >> I mean that's something that can be you know it's it I don't know it would have

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a you know >> I don't think there's any large developments that are planned in that area that I know of. I mean, uh, and if there are, you know, that would be something that could be tweaked at at, uh, site. And it's, of course, something that when you go to the county, you know, that'll that'll come up along

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with, like you said, the, uh, possibility of having a, uh, uh, left only, right only lane coming out of Higgins onto uh, County Route 516. I think you've you've addressed the the comments about, you know, my comments about the new new uh, trip generation,

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your, you know, your conversations with county. As of now, I think everything's good to go on my end. >> Thank you, >> Mr. W. >> Uh, I don't have any questions. >> All right, go to the board members on my left. Mr. Sing, nothing.

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>> Mr. Scott, no. >> The traffic now was terrible on 516 heading towards the high school. uh you'll sit there for hours just getting down that road and you're going to now add additional traffic.

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What is your peak hours that you tested this? We counted traffic from 300 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. The manual counts at five at the intersections of Hickens Road and at

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Catrell Road. Uh our our counts also included data from the high school and >> the show >> the morning time. What time was >> we? Well, let me back up a minute. The school traffic basically coincides with the morning rush hour on 5:16. That's

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fairly consistent. In the evening, the school peaks a little bit earlier around 300 p.m. That that time period 2:45 3:15. >> Excuse me. There will be a time for public comment but just not at this moment. >> I'm going by the traffic volumes and the

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report and that we conducted on 5:16. So they were a little bit earlier than the typical you know 5 to 6 p.m. period which was the peak volume time based upon the 8 the volume data that was collected. So definitely there's we know

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there's a peak because of the school traffic. But when we look at analyze intersections, we analyze traffic, we look at the worst time when the total volume was on that roadway and that was during later on during the day that five to six time period. And

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well, we also look I understand if if I'm coming out and I always come out of the certain drive of the roadway at a certain time, come out of an intersection a certain time, I'm used to that snapshot of traffic at that particular time. When we do a traffic valuation, we're looking at it over a

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larger longer period of time. So there's ups and downs throughout that time period and that's how we base our analyses on. So yes, there are peaks, but there are also some I'm going to call them valleys in that time period. It's fluctuates obviously. So I don't

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agree with that. I might ask for an independent traffic study if that's possible. >> That's your traffic consultant. Okay. >> Thank you. school buses. You do your survey and everything based on present conditions. If the building

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gets erected and you have all these units and there's children involved, >> Mhm. >> the bus is going to be coming stop. Where are they going to pick up children? >> So, that ultimately is actually set by the board of education. Um, so it's their choice where they want their

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school buses to stop >> pick up and drive >> and pick up. But that's just for that's that's really it has nothing to do with the applicant. The applicant could say, "I want the school bus to stop right here and the school board's going to say we do what we want." >> I take my question back.

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>> Thank you, Mr. Trizo. >> Mrs. Andrew, >> no question. Thank you. Um, as I discussed our procedure earlier, I have um no further witnesses for this evening. So, I welcome the board to certainly open the matter up to

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the public. I have three witnesses that are sworn that can speak tonight. That's our engineer, our architect, and our um traffic engineer to respond to any uh comments that we have. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh and we're going to do so. >> Just some ground rules. Uh do we have a

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extra microphone? Uh Jake? >> Yeah. Anybody who wants to speak tonight, we'll we'll recognize you by raising your hand or uh standing. Uh we'll try and get to everyone. We have plenty of time. >> I would ask everyone has to be sworn.

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This is a quasi judicial hearing. So therefore, >> yeah, that'd be great. Thank you, >> Mr. Chair. Can I have a brief sidebar with your attorney? >> Uh just for a quick I I think that's permissible. Uh, councelor. Yeah.

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>> You want to go off the record? >> Yeah. >> Okay. We'll go off the record, please. >> Recess. >> Yeah. Well, we're not going to recess. stuff. That's all. That's okay. All right. As I said, uh if you're going to come up, you will be sworn. Uh I

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would ask you to speak directly into the microphone. And what you're going to be questioning has to do with what the testimony you heard tonight. So there was uh the three people that testified. If you have questions concerning that, you can feel free to do so. So I will

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open the public portion at this time. Anyone who wants to be heard. >> Okay, ma'am. I'll take your word on that. >> She's not on the oath >> yet. Ma'am, when you >> would you t tilt that just tilt it down.

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There you go. It's perfect. >> I'm used to speaking. >> Ma'am, just before you begin, I do need to swear you in. So, if you do you swear or affirm and tell the truth and nothing but the truth. I help you God. >> I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Patricia Shook. S C H U C K.

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>> And your address, please. >> 149 Higgins Road. >> Take it away, Miss Shock. >> Okay. The first time I spoke at a first meeting here, I was just too emotional in I I really wasn't thinking of what I

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was saying. I just let my emotions run. But I I look at all the um variances that have been asked for uh starting from I mean there's eight variances and do we have to go through all these

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variances um and and accept them as they're stated? uh that seems to be a lot of variances and I still feel Higgins Road cannot

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contain the amount of traffic that is going to be made by these extra draft trap people driving. It's it's hard enough to get out on 516

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as it is. And when you say the school traffic, most of my friends we judge our afternoon because school dismissal at the high school. Do you know what it is? What time is school dismissal? Anybody

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know? >> Okay. The buses start. But >> we can't we can't be yelling from the audience, but >> Okay. But they start. We get we take it as 2:15. >> All right. I'm going to disagree and say 209 >> is when dismissal starts. Maybe the buses start at 2:15. We manage our whole

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lives. I look at the clock. No, you're not going to go out now because of how the traffic is. I know that's only a small portion of the day, but it could be a very important portion of the day. So once again, I can't let my emotions

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get to me. I've been there since 1959 and um it's very sad. I've known all the people who have lived on that corner in what we call the Bennett House and I've seen businesses come and go and I'm very

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sorry to see it. I would like to see this as it was originally presented, how it was supposed to be. retail stores on the bottom and apartments on the top. That is what I I know progress has to go on. So, as

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long as that's progress, then that's how I would like to see it and nothing more than that. Thank you. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> Next. >> All right, sir. Same same would apply. Just raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm, tell truth, nothing but the

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truth is to help you be God. >> I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Richard, last name spelled P as in Peter. U C I A R E L I. >> You said L I. >> That is correct. >> And your address, please.

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>> 20 No court, Madawan, New Jersey. >> Take it away. >> Thank you. Good evening, board. Good evening, Mr. Chairman. um having been here at the prior meeting and I saw the prior application uh this application has changed uh but I'm

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afraid not for the better actually looking at and the drawings first of all I think the board should take in consideration quite frankly this thing is a behemoth it's an apartment behemoth it's three

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stories there is no three-story apartment buildings on Route 516 from one end to the other. Guy Park is two stories, 33 apartments. I looked it up while I was sitting there. So, this applicant, yes, he did create Guy Park,

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but not three stories. This this design, while might be aesthetically pleasing, is totally out of character with that area. I think a lot of us live there. No, quite frankly, that thing is really

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doesn't belong there. Uh, actually, it looks like a place out of Woodbridge. That's something they would bring in Woodbridge or Edison, not in Old Bridge Township. Uh, the other the other thing I wanted to mention was again about the traffic. Uh, some of you know that I'm

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president of the Thomas Warren Museum and I can verify what Pat Shook says. I can't get out of the museum at 2:00. I have to wait until the bus is finished. I sit in the museum until 2:30 till

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quarter to 3 till I can finally get out and make a right turn on 516 and go down 516 and get home. If I don't leave the museum by 2:00, I'm stuck there. And the traffic is backed up from Route Five from Catrell to Partridge John Partridge

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Road. Believe it. I live it every all the time. I tell contractors, get here before. You have to leave by 2:00 because after 2, you will not be able to get out of here and you'll have to wait. So, when we heard this, I'm sure people did get a little excited because we live

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that reality. I live that reality as well. Excuse me. Going back to I just wanted to talk about the town center plan, which I have a copy in my hand here. When the town center plan was made, the

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governing body as of today has not put forward an amendment to this town center plan. This town center plan still stands the way it is written which says you have to have stores on the first floor and apartments on the second floor and third floor is not allowed.

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I believe >> sorry Mr. Chair, three stories is permitted in the zone >> with with a variance. >> No, three stories is permitted in the zone, Mr. Chair. with residential. >> Yes. So what's permitted is second and third floor but not the first floor.

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>> Not the first floor. Okay. >> Correct. That's what requires the use variance because the applicant is proposing residential on the first floor as opposed to commercial. >> Right. Okay. Well, >> I I absolutely will. I said the applicant is proposing residential on

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the second and third floor which is permitted. What is not permitted is residential on the first floor. Only commercial is permitted. Therefore, the applicant requires a use variance to permit residential on the first floor. So, but there's no time for people when you have an opportunity to speak. It'll

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be after this gentleman. >> Okay. I I concede. Okay. Cuz I'm reading here permitted only on the second and third stories in zones TCD1A and TCD 1B above first floor commercial development. Okay.

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If this application is to go forward, it should comply with the town center plan. And the town center plan is very clear what is required there. Now, whether it's viable, well, that's not our concern or the board's concern. The

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applicant must conform unless you guys grant a variance. But you do not have to grant the applicant a variance just because they asked for it. the board does have that power to deny. So, I asked the board to consider carefully this application.

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And the other thing I'm curious about those first floor apartments, they're going to walk right out into traffic when they come out the door. Is that what what's going to happen? I'm going to walk out the door into the circular traffic pattern. the other floors come down and go out

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the front door, but the people on the first floor now are going to just walk out into traffic. >> They're going to walk out the same exit everybody on the second and third floor would walk out. >> The front door, the front door or the the door from their apartment. Now, >> traffic are you talking about?

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>> The traffic in the circle, the people coming around. If there's traffic there, a truck is coming around or a car is coming around. >> Let me cl Let me just rephrase the question for him. So, if I'm understanding your question correctly, sir, >> are you asking the applicant, is each each individual apartment going to have

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a door that allows them to exit into >> That's correct. They did on the prior application. >> So, Mr. Claus, >> no, they don't. They have an entrance and an exit to the building. >> So, each apartment will not have its own individual. >> That has changed from the prior application. >> It does not change from the prioration. >> Okay. All right. Because I was I

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remember specifically they were going to have a little walkway and a patio to go out when I was here. Okay. Well, uh, again, I just hope the board considers carefully and I share my residents concern about traffic and I don't know

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how people are going to get out of there during those times and make turns because right now you can't go anywhere unless they put a light there. Now, I heard some testimony about a light that the county may may not, but there's no plans to put a light there. This is what

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I heard. So, good luck everybody. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Anybody else? >> Ma'am, before you begin, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm, tell the truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? >> I do. >> Please state your name and swear your last for the record.

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>> Dorine Chevier. C H E V A L I E R. >> And your address, please. >> 468 Tytown Road, Old Bridge, New Jersey. >> Take it away, Miss Chevier. >> Yes. Hi. I'm here um to express my personal individual concerns regarding

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the um Visions LLC development. Um I was online trying to read the fire marshals report which wasn't available to the public. I was wondering if it could be read into the public so that public knows what had happened with the fire report.

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>> It is on file with the clerk's office which is all that's required by the municipal land use. We have a summary for the public to hear and put on record of what the first line or you know what the summary is. Was it approved? Because Mrs. Totten was testifying, you know, to

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the fire marshall's report, but she didn't actually say what the results were. >> It's the applicant's case. He can present whatever evidence he would like to. >> Okay. So, everybody has to look it up if they want to and come to zoning. >> It's it's on file with the with the

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board secretary. Second of all, um Town Center as as it said is supposed to be a neocclassical development. Yes, three stories are allowed. First story is only supposed to be retail. Second and third story can be offices and retail. However, I thought it was kind of weird

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that he didn't have the planner come up who's supposed to testify the good and the positive criteria for the first floor apartments because I mean that's part of the use variance proven how beneficial it is for

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apartments to be on the first floor. So, it doesn't make any sense that we're here for use variances and we didn't touch on that. >> The applicant I Hello, sorry. The applicant did indicate at the next meeting they would be calling >> next meeting. But you're asking for the use variance tonight.

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>> No, no, no. There's no vote tonight. >> No vote. >> Okay. But it should be on record that that's going to be part of the use variance and it has to be testified to the benefits of just making it a glorified three-story apartment complex. >> Couldn't agree with you more. The

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applicant does have to satisfy those proofs. >> And then, you know, I the traffic study should be redone again. I he did say he you know consulted today on the 12th edition. I mean there were really no facts in the reports that were received

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online as to numbers with that exactly for the public to see. He's just saying what he had. It wasn't in the report for the actual numbers. I mean this is these are all things that should tonight's meeting seemed more

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like fluff of you know what kind of facade we're going to have. We don't know the grading yet. And that's the site plan. That's not the use plan. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? >> All right, ma'am. The same would apply.

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Attorney will put you under roof. Just raise your right hand first. Do you swear or affirm? Tell the truth. Nothing but the truth. Have you not? >> Donna Warren. >> Yes. Did you say yes? >> I asked you, did you swear to tell the truth? Nothing but >> I do. I'm sorry. See, I can't hear her. >> Can you please state your name and spell your last for the record?

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>> Donna Warren W. >> And your address, please. >> 3997 Route 516. Madawan. >> Take it away. >> Take it away. Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Um, I'm concerned about a

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threestory building in this area. There is nothing. We have no buildings like that. We have in the area in this immediate area where they want to build. Uh, traffic is terrible on 516.

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Very dangerous. I've seen three accidents, two of which people died. Um, so we already have enough traffic with a three-story building and 58 apartments with how many people live in there. The

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increase of of people traffic in this area is not something that um that we want in Oldbridge. It's not a urban town. And is that what we really want here? Is that what we want to bring to

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Old Bridge? >> Um, Um, also parking, uh, parking for now you're saying 58 >> 54 >> 54 units and or is there going to be adequate

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parking because everybody has two cars now or more? You can't park on 516. It's too dangerous and there's no room on Higgins. So that's also a a big concern

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that it needs to be accommodated for. Um this uh essentially um affects the character of the neighborhood. It's negative on our property values. Um

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>> object to that. >> Most homes are not >> Your objection is noted and you're correct. The board can't consider property values. the board is not permitted to consider property values and the impact on an application. >> And um I'm concerned also how uh maybe

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you said it, I didn't hear it. Um how about the high tension wires? Are you allowed to build so close to them? Is that a consideration also? >> It is a consideration and we are >> okay.

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Okay. And how and I have this question uh for the acreage. How many apartments or dwellings are allowed on that air on the ear of the acreage? >> The municipality does not have a density uh standard which is the question you're

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asking. >> The municipality does not limit the amount. It's >> the municipality does not limit the amount. That's the answer. >> There's no >> there's no density requirement. So what council just indicated that there's no density prohibition for this property

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for the number of apartments. That's the So because there's no density prohibition, there's no numeric number that's not permitted. >> Oh, okay. All right. Uh just one other question. Maybe it's not should be brought up here, but the

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the historical house that was torn down >> was demolished >> with no permit. What what was decided there? >> What were the consequences? >> Mr. Chair, we we've been through this up and down and over again and there was a demolition permit that was issued by

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your building department. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else? >> There's no >> Mr. Rizzo, I guess you'll be last. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Then I'm going to ask you to wait. If you have other questions, I'll ask Mr.

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Rizzo to late to wait because in a sense he's a u an objector. Uh not in the true sense of the term, but by the letter you've written. I I'm assuming you acknowledging that. >> I'm here to acknowledge the letter. I'm

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not an objector. I'm not pro application the application. >> Well, we're going to let the Let me have the the others come up first. >> Go ahead. >> When you're ready, ma'am. >> You swear affirm tell the truth nothing but the truth. I help you God. >> Yes, I do.

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>> Please state your name and spare your last for the record. >> Yes. My name is Chenane Carowana. The last name is C A R U A N A. >> And your address, please? >> 124 Higgins Road.

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>> Take it away. >> So, I mean, we go over and over again, and like uh the lawyer stated, this is about the third time we've been here. Um but

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not through any fault of ours. I mean we're here because this is a major project and like other citizens have stated first the size three stories.

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Now, you might say the variance allows that, but the reality is there are no other buildings like this on 516. And not only is it on 516, but it's

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going to be a next to a very narrow road that has a sharp curve in it right at the beginning, which is Higgins Road. So these kind of buildings that are being built recently in all all areas of New

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Jersey really stand out particularly on 516 and Higgins Road because of that squashed amount of space. I mean, even the building, and I believe it's by

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the same owner that was allowed to be built by the high school, is much further in. It is only two stories and it's a totally different style. There is

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no other that road, yes, is also tiny, but it's not as populated as Higgins Road is. So, I don't think we're really looking at this in a very useical, but not even logical. Um,

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I think Mrs. Warren, Ms. Warren mentioned it. Is this really the character that the town wants to go forward with? That's what I think is the big question mark. Is this really the character that the town wants to go

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forward with? Why are we so tied into having these apartment buildings? Couldn't we come up with something more creative? >> What is your ma'am? What is your concern about? You keep using the word character and then combining it with apartment

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buildings. Are you concerned about the types of people that might utilize you? >> Oh, absolutely not. No, the type of people will be fine. I'm talking about the type of building in >> Why did we reference Edison or Woodbridge earlier? What are we talking about that out of character? If the people are going to be fine, why don't

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you want them in Old Bridge? >> It's not that I don't want the people in Old Bridge. I'm talking about the type of building that you're building. It doesn't fit into the character and it is too big for the space that you're

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putting it in >> with high with high density wires with Higgins Road that has a curve with um 516. Now the traffic um man I'll call him that. Sorry. The

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traffic representative stated that there might be a possibility for a dedicated left lane, but we're not sure yet if the county has decided on that. Right. Um I believe that a stoplight is not going to be possible because there's already one

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on Catrell Road and so Higgins Road is too close. So I don't think you're going to be able to do that. Um and so that's what I mean. Nothing against the people. Please, let's not let's not try to confuse the issue here. Um, we're

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talking because first of all, we don't we not we haven't even talked about what the price of each of those units are going to be. So, I'm sure they're going to be market value and the inhabitants will be fine. But it's the style that

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you're imposing now on an area that unfortunately has seen year after year after year, month after month lose that open space that we used to have. Pat Chuck, my neighbor has been there since

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1959. My parents have been on Higgins Road since 1970s. So I have full authority to tell you about the evolution of the area. Now one can say this is modernization or this is

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um you know evolution or this is the way things go. Yes, granted but how much more do you want to include on that level of density? Okay, you're going to say there are no laws that

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prevent us from adding the dentist density, but why would you want to do that to the neighbors and to the actual footprint of the of the township? It is just and I have to

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agree with um the board member, Mr. uh Sono. Okay. The traffic your report sir, I do not know. First of all, you stated that the report was made in 2024. Okay. There's been some updates, but

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it's not the most recent. Second, yes, already my neighbors have talked about the traffic at school time. What about Saturday? Are you aware that on Higgins Road further up there are there is a soccer field? Saturday on the actual

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road, you cannot move. Okay. And and that's great that there's a soccer field. I would love to see, you know, turn turn your apartment building into something like that into a a park, a garden, not a

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garden center that was commercial, but some kind maybe an offshoot of the Catrell House. Okay. Because both Higgins because I live my parents live in the Higgins farmhouse on Higgins Road. Both of them were farmers. Unite

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that idea. Make it really a community thing. Not pretend that you're benefiting us by adding a threestory apartment complex in an area that has

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90% single family homes in such a tight squeezed part of the of the road with all the other issues that we've already

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discussed. the traffic on 516, the congestion that accumulates on Higgins Road, the access of trying to get out. Getting out of Higgins Road and turning right is doable. Getting out of Higgins

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Road and turning left is problematic at any time of the day. Any time of the day. And I live there and I know that. Okay. It's not like I'm coming up with these illusions. This is the fact. Just

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coming here tonight to this meeting, which would have been out of peak traffic hour, it took us three minutes to sit on Higgins Road and wait for the slew of traffic in order to get into the lane to come here. So really, I guess

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it's kind of a soularching question. Why? Why do we need a threestory apartment complex? Why? What is that really going to add to Oldbridge

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and the the last time we were here, I didn't even know I was away. I was overseas. I didn't really even know that had come up with this town center idea. But I already talked about that was kind of an

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illusion. Okay. Where were you ever going to make a town center? >> You got to focus on You got to focus on what we were talking about tonight. And I appreciate your commentary. I I know you're speaking from the heart, but let's just try and focus in on >> I I I I just wanted to I just wanted to

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end with that. I mean, you know, cuz they've mentioned, you know, we mentioned this town center concept, but really, I mean, I don't know what they were thinking in the 1980s. Maybe they had big or greater plans, but the way

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we've seen things develop, I do not think if we really look deeply inside of ourselves that a threestory apartment complex is going to add any quality of life to not only the people living in

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that building, but to everybody else around it. And I'll end with that. >> Thank you very much, ma'am. >> Thank you. the other lady in the front. Did you want to speak and then I'll get to you in the back and then I guess we'll have Mr. Rizzo wants to speak last.

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>> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear, affirm, tell the truth and nothing but the truth to help God? >> I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Barbara De Mo D apostrophe A M I O >> and your address, please. >> 106 Higgins Road. >> Take it away. >> I'm the first house behind the gas

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station. And what can I say? I can't ever get out until 5:16. I have to go around all the way down Higgins to Ty Town to go where I have to go. It's really a very big problem. The soccer

401
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field, too. I love the children. I have them, but we never can get out of the driveway on a Saturday. I can't imagine what the traffic is going to be like. And for years, they said they're going to put a light on the corner of 516 in Higgins. It never came to fruition. So,

402
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I I don't know what to say anymore. I don't like looking at that mess that's there right now. I'd love something to come up. I didn't really want three stories. Maybe you could do two, something pretty to look at because I am facing it, but

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I'm really sad with this town because something has got to be and it's just way overcrowded. So, thank you. I hope you take that into consideration. >> Thank you, ma'am. Lady in the back, please.

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>> Just raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm, tell the truth, nothing but the truth. I help you God. >> Yes. >> Please state your name. It's better last for the record. >> Teresa t h e r e s a last name marte m a r t. Address is 25 mark mc drivean new jersey.

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>> Take it away. I really agree and with the visual aspects of what this building would look like. The builder created something that is very nice at Geke Park down further on 516 next to the school.

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Why can't we just duplicate something and make a cohesive look in the area? Again, it is kind of off center if we do not have any other

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threetory buildings. And as the gentleman here from the museum stated, you guys up there are speaking for us and we do hope that you listen to the comments and yes, not

408
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everything has to be approved. All because I want to do something doesn't mean I get to do it. Um, with that all being said, I just want to say that as just a statement that the density question that we were bantering about is

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determined by floor to area ratio which Miss Totten testified is too great for the acreage. That's all. Thank you. >> Thank you, ma'am. All right. Is there nobody else? Mr. Mr. Roso, you're up.

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>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Sir, just before we begin, we do have to swear you. Do you swear from tell truth and nothing but the truth to help you God? >> I do. >> Please state your name and spare your last for the record. >> Sam Rizzo, R I Z. >> And your address, please, sir. >> Uh 125 Aberdine Road, Melanin, New Jersey.

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>> Take it away. >> Uh I'm here uh as a member of the Madison Township Historical Society. And at the October meeting, um, I began to make some comments about the historic structure. Uh, I was asked by, uh, your

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board of attorney, uh, Mr. Varga, um, to present my comments in a letter. I did that. Um, I don't believe that letter would be admissible if I wasn't here to offer to answer any questions to to make sure the board members have seen the letter and to off answer any questions

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that they might have on the letter. My purpose isn't necessarily with this building because the building is gone, but my purpose is to make sure that in the future we have a lot of other buildings in town uh that meet this. >> If we could stick to this application, I

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would appreciate it. >> I'll give them a little leeway, Mr. Clauser. Go ahead. >> Okay. Yeah, I I think that there should be some leeway because we we couldn't talk about that building that was knocked down because it was knocked down before the application. So, what I'm trying to

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do is to make sure that this doesn't happen again. Simple. Um anyway, uh so I put down in the letter the references that supported uh my position that I believe the town does have a right to

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protect buildings in the town that are are historic to the town. They don't have to be on the national register. And uh I think that um the procedure is at one point I I believe Mr. Svin at the meeting you said that this board doesn't

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have jurisdiction over that and that's not really true. Uh whichever board has a historic building on the site that board does have jur jurisdiction of whether or not that building can be knocked down. Um so that's pretty much all I had. I just wanted to uh to to

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make sure that in the future we just don't knock down every building in town, you know, because of of development. I think there's a procedure and I think we have to follow it. I think the ordinance is very very clear on the intent u for the township to to preserve these

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buildings. This has been in the ordinance for more than 40 years. It's actually been the pract I'm not even sure. I know it was in the 83 ordinance. I I think it was in the 78 ordinance, but I don't have those ordinances anymore, so I'm not sure. But I know that the township has been

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trying to protect these sites for more than 40 years. And I'd like to see them protected in the future. And it's because of the procedure here that I that I stand before you to say this. >> And and I have your letter and I read

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about 3/4 of it the meeting started. But in deference to Mr. Clauser, this really doesn't speak to this application. You're talking about preservation of historic or sites that may be historic but weren't

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recognized as and and I don't know my recollection of you talking uh back last year was that they didn't have the right to do that and it got into an argument over they should not have taken that building down. Certainly, we didn't have control over

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that. And that was what I was probably referring to. So, I I'm assuming it not was it was not rebuilt, so it's it's gone. Your memo or your letter, I should say, reads well probably to the council, but

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certainly we don't have that jurisdiction to be able to control that. You're you're a member of the the uh historical society, right? You probably have far more than this board holds in authority >> and and

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>> no, the historic commission has >> well >> authority to the board, not not the historical society. >> Okay. Whichever it may be, you would probably have more more power than this board with reference to that. But that is not what we're doing here tonight.

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>> Mr. Sharon, it would have been if it had gone through the proper procedure and had that building been before the board before it was knocked down. Otherwise, if if you if the board takes that position, then every building, every historic building in town can be knocked

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down first before they come before the board for an application. That's not the intent of the ordinance. >> I'll defer to to to the c to the lawyers on this, but uh this board doesn't have that control. >> Correct. You know that >> correct? The significant distinction is

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this building was never previously formally recognized. So it didn't gain any protections like a historical building would get if it is formally recognized through the proper proceedings. This was a standalone building that the applicant was within

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its right to demolish in accordance with a construction or demolition's permit. I understand the concern of historic buildings. You want they should be preserved. But in this circumstance, this building was not properly preserved and recorded as historic. So there was

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no obligation on the applicant to do anything. And this board does not have jurisdiction now to go back in time and force them to do anything. I >> I don't expect the the board to go back in time. Um, however, uh, what I

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presented to you was all of the, uh, the passages in the municipal land use law, um, the state D who controls historic buildings,

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the township's ordinance, and, um, Cox, I don't remember the formal name for it. um to show you that yes, the town does have a right to preserve these buildings. The town has a right under the state law, the town has a

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right under the D who has the jurisdiction to to uh oversee these buildings and it has the right to zone and it has zoned by putting these sections in the land development ordinance. When you read the land development

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ordinance, there are several passages and I put them in the memo or in the letter. There are several passages and when they're read together, it's pretty clear that the township's intent is to preserve these buildings. It's not it's not uh that they can be destroyed first

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and then come to the board and say, "Well, we don't have a historic building on the site." The there is a procedure and I believe it should be followed. I understand it's too late on this one, but I think that procedure needs to be followed and it needs to be recognized in the future. >> Understood.

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>> And I I I agree with your premise, but again, this is not the forum. We can't do anything about that. You know that, Mr. Rouso. >> You can't do anything about the building. It's knocked down now. But but it >> No one came and asked us to knock a building down if they if they could. No one came before this board and asked us.

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>> They should have come before the board as part of the application. I don't know the legality of that, Mr. Rosel. >> That's what I tried to present to you. >> Okay. >> Under the state. >> Well, I appreciate your commentary and I appreciate you authoring the letter >> and um I'm not here to talk about the application of pro work on or anything

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else. I'm I'm here to talk about the future of the uh historic the rest of the historic buildings in the town. Uh but I would ask that I would ask you, Mr. VR to look in the town center ordinance and review which you spoke to

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before about the density. The density can be and should be uh calculable and if it is under the under the uh laws then there is a density requirement in the town center district.

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>> I'll double check that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Mr. Rizzo will be his best. U Thank you. Uh >> yeah just a for allowing allowing that. >> Yeah a couple of comments before um >> uh just hold on. Anybody else wants to

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be >> heard? Thank you Mr. Chair. >> Okay. There is going to be another hearing so there will be another opportunity for public portion but at this time I'm going to close it for this evening. Mr. Clauser. >> Thank you Mr. Chair. Um just a couple of

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quick points uh just you know applicant side of what I heard this evening and uh and then you know I'll ask that the application be carried and if we could be given a date >> is um you know there's uh I heard threetory uh buildings several times uh three-story buildings are permitted in

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the zone. Um I heard that was out of character with the neighborhood. However, the town center district comp contemplates a three-story building that has apartments on the first and sec I mean second and third floor and commercial on the ground floor. So, it it's it's part of the ordinance. Um the

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the other thing that I heard a lot of is traffic, traffic, traffic, traffic, and traffic is very bad in that neighborhood. If I had commercial on the ground floor and apartments on the second and third floor, we would also have traffic and I would hear the same complaints whether it was permitted or

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not. So, there is the ordinance contemplates the development of the site. um the development of the site in any form will create traffic which will participate on 516 and and Higgins Road. Um so just from the applicant's

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perspective hearing those things I just want to give my two cents. Now, it's for the board to weigh the floor area ratio variance, to weigh this the footprint of the building and and all of those things, but if the site is developed, traffic will be put on the road in any instance. Um, and it will be a

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three-story building. Um, and it'll look a lot like what it looks like there. Um, but you'll hear more intelligent testimony with regard to that from our planner. Um, I I want the public to know that I very much do appreciate their comments. We do listen to them. that was part of the reason that we moved uh the

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building further back. Um but it's a property owner that has a right to develop his property. Um so Mr. Chair, uh I'm not asking the board to take a vote. Obviously, we still have another witness. So I would ask if you could uh give me a date, please uh and carry the application without requiring further

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notice or publication. >> Thank you, Mr. Claus. Do we have a date? >> Uh August 6th. >> August. August 6th. >> Yes. >> Oh, no. Um >> too close. No, I I'm luckily going to be in Ireland. Um, >> August 20th. >> Yeah. All right. So, the same night.

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Okay. 8:20. Okay. >> Is that okay? >> Yes. Yeah. >> For those here in in the courtroom that have a concern with this matter, it will be on the agenda for August 20th. Okay. August 20th meeting of the zoning board.

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>> Okay. >> And there will be no further notice. there's not going to be further notice, but anyone who looks at the website, you can see the agenda right there and you can see the dates. So, just look up town uh uh township zoning board of adjustment, you'll find that there will

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be another witness that's going to testify at the next hearing, at least one, I guess. Uh so there will be other opportunities for public portion, but for this evening, this matter is uh going to be closed now. uh will

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reconvene on uh this matter on 82026. No further notice. Thank you, Mr. Clausy. Thank you for your witnesses and your professionals. And folks, thank you all for uh being patient. Uh no further um business to bring

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before the board at this time. I don't think there's anyone here in the court that courtroom wishes to be heard on any other matters. So, >> Mr. Varga, anything from you? >> Nothing from me, Mr. Chairman. >> Anything from the township? No. Okay. >> Uh, just a reminder that we have a

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special meeting on June 29th, which is a Monday, same time, same place. >> 6:29 special meeting. Okay. All right. Someone move for an adjournment. >> Is there a second? >> All in favor signify by saying I.

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>> I. Any opposed? Board stands adjourned.