##VIDEO ID:p5APgFw9xEQ## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e I'd like to call a meeting to order please rise join me in the salute to the flag pledge allegiance of the United States of America standy and justice for please be seated adequate notice of this meeting of the Albridge Township only Board of adjustment has been provided in accordance with the open public meetings act at least 48 Hours part of the commencement of this meeting by primally posting in the municipal complex an announcement giving the time the date the location and the agenda of this meeting also so by mailing such announcements that the home news and Tribune filing a copy of the announcement with the municipal clerk and posting the agenda on the municipal website M pelli welcome back we're glad to see you're back in good health with that leg yes okay great uh would you uh call the RO please Mrs Andrews present miss chavalier here Mr ISO here Mr scagno here m test here chairman Sullivan here are we going to swear m g is and then we are we going to do that next uh of council uh this for this year is Mr Jerry dassy seated to my right your left of the firm at Dy McGuckin McNichol Connors Anthony and Buckley I think you could probably fit a couple more welcome uh Mr Dy uh we look forward to your counsil and guidance uh I would it at this point under item two I'd like to swear in our alternate to member dores Gomez could you come over here lores please go de go baby your Gomez Solly swear did solemnly swear or that that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of New Jersey and the constitution of New Jersey that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same that I will bear FR true faith and allegiance to the same and to the governments established in the United States and to the government established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will faithfully and I will faithfully impartially impartially and justly perform and justly perform all of the duties of my position of and all of my duties of the position of Zoning Board member alternate to Zoning Board member alternate to to the best of my ability so help me God so the best of my ability so help me God there you go thank you very much thank you and welcome for uh the C lawyers that are here this evening uh I see Mr Lane uh there's only six voting members this evening we are have we do have D variances obviously uh so you can make your decision on that whether we're going to have a vote on your issue or not you can consult yeah I have some other uh we have some housekeeping issues we'll take we'll take care of uh as a couple housekeeping issues uh I know that many of you here are here for the second application this evening from the public uh and we welcome you uh we're going to try and hear I know you have probably responses to the presentation we'll see how that goes obviously we'll try and fit in as many uh uh of you as possible in time constraint to speak on the matter I can tell you that the matter would not reach a conclusion either way this evening so whatever the testimony may be it's in no way would it reach the point of a vote there'll be continuing uh there'll be continuing uh meetings on that particular application so again I'll tell you a little later as we get to it so you remember but uh we'll try and get to the public portion it's immediately after the testimony that the uh that applicant will be putting on so we have two this evening we'll get to those as well this is this uh meeting is being televised on OBT obtv channel 15 and simultaneously it's going out on YouTube live you can always uh look back if you go on YouTube and you can see uh almost any of the meetings that are held here in the township for the Council planning board zoning board etc for your reference uh the board has uh rules that testimony stops at 10 p.m. but the meeting doesn't end till 10:30 and the reason we do that is we keep an extra half hour for public comment or uh uh public comments to uh public comments to the applications that we had on the schedule for the evening so bear that in mind we'll move on to resolutions uh we have two this evening I'm going to call them in each 48-20 24z it's anime V Cara it's a searington design waiver Mr Dy sure this is a I'm sorry excuse me thanks chair this is a an attempt to memorialize the written document the written U resolution and this is a resolution uh for bulk variances for property known as 943 Grove Avenue it says Keyport I guess that's the mailing address block 31 lot 943 the purpose of the application and the approvals or Grant the construction of a driveway in a rear yard P patio the varant relief was because of the sideline setback requirements and the design waiver was requested because of the the driveways WID 49 ft uh whereas the maximum perimeter is 30 ft and one foot setb where 3 feet are required uh that's generally speaking what the V what the resolution was about thank you Mr Dy board members you've heard the resolution someone move it for adoption please ISO move it ISO I heard and Andrews roll call please miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scagno yes Miss test yes chairman Sullivan yes 51- 2024 slow BR bris bris Billy close bil I'm hoping I'm close and I apologize if that person is here Mr Dy thank you this is a Varian approval for property at 139 Cindy Street block 15 5556 lot 385 it's again a bulk variance application uh granting um construction of a 15x 20t shed to replace a smaller shed on the property variance bulk variance relief is needed because of the once again the side and rear setbacks uh the proposed shed will be 5T from the side yard property line 10 ft is required and it'll be 6 feet from the rear property line and 10 ft is required thank you Mr D the board members someone move that for adoption please ISO is there a second Andrew second thank you roll Co please miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scagno yes Miss TTI yes chairman Sullivan yes all right that brings us to our applications for this evening as I said there are two uh we're going to take them in order as they appear on the agenda first one is uh 28-20 22z it's interbel aut motive group this is an amended seeking amended D variant it's in edo1 zone block 2 200001 Lot 25 and 26 physical location 1706 Englishtown Road Ed car dealership license Wayne Miller esquare representing sir is that lit up okay no it's got be yeah you can have a seat Mr Mill Mr chair members of the board I've spoken to my client given that there are only six voting members and it is a d variance if the board would permit we would request an ench charment so that we can have a full board here to consider I don't think the board would have any problem with that and I can understand that we had we had one member who's had some surgery done today so unfortunately he's not here our hopes and prayers with us uh thank you very much uh is anybody on board has a problem with the continuance on my left no on my right members okay sir that would be with the understanding that the time period in which we need to make an approval or denial is stayed and there would not be a need for new notice we'll provide an oral notice this evening at understood and we do agree to the extension of time if you want me to confirm in writing I'm happy to do so thank you Miss uh pelli would we have a date I believe March 6 was the next available March 6 would be fine okay I thank members the board appreciate the courtesies as always all right the matter 28- 2022 Z that matter is going to be adjourned for the evening it will be continued March 6 there'll be no further notice if you're here on that matter this evening uh as I said will not be heard uh please check on the Township's website under the zoning board and you can see the agendas are posted there prior to the meetings you want me to on it or no good I think I can take a total yay and nay on that as to the continuance all in favor say I I any opposed none okay thank you councel I don't know who was that might been somebody else okay uh we'll call in the then the only application for the this evening 22-22 24z it's 335 Green Street LLC this medium density R12 Zone physical location is 335 Green Street it's block 170000 lots 13.11 a for bifurcated D variance and I have Matthew pada Esquire representing sir counselor you do take notice that we only have six members this evening okay yes I appreciate we only have six voting I don't think we're going to reach any kind of conclusion this evening for a voting yeah you may proceed sir triy thank you so very much uh again my name is Matthew pad from the law firm SS cus and gross and I represent the applicant 335 Green Street LLC in connection with this application this application is not your ordinary application ordinary applications have usually asked for preliminary and final site plan approval they would have all the Civil details that you would be looking for as well as all the architecturals you would be looking for meaning elevations floor layouts renderings and so forth and so on for this subject project though we are not seeking prelimary and final site plan if this board find favorably we would come back for that right now what we're asking for this board is to bifurcate this application so that we can only consider the use itself the use itself that we're looking at is a conditional use as in a town home use at this site because of also the density we are also triggering both a D4 F and a D5 variance relief for density okay so with that being said I want to draw back attention to the initial reason why we're here we're here seeking a bifurcated application because the reality is this project is not consistent with your zoning requirements okay and what do I mean by that you got a D3 variance the D3 variance is based on Town Homes Town Homes essentially say you have to do satisfy three items in order to satisfy the conditional use requirements the first one is do you meet the density meaning the minimum density okay we'll get to the other density in a moment that's 25 units the answer is absolutely we're proposing 76 the second question is is this project adjacent to a town home development or the like the answer is yes now when you look at the actual zoning map you'll say or tax map I should say you might be reluctant to say the yes immediately and the reason is because there is in fact a differential between the subject parcel and the Avalon Bay Town Home development project and that separation is a conservation easement dedicated open space but what that really is in all practicality that's just trees that's a forest that's right there no different than the forest that's on the boundy line of town homes for Avalon Bay so for practic for practical purposes we do satisfy that condition at least it's our belief but don't take my word for it you'll hear from my professionals and then the last item that you have to satisfy for for conditional uses hones in on traffic okay we more than satisfy two of the three elements the only element that we do not satisfy is the question of does the proposed application increase the peak volume by more than 10% this subject site is almost 10 acres just under 10 acres if we were to satisfy that requirement of not going above 10% we would only be allowed to have just two single family homes so the density would therefore be one single family home per 5 Acres I do not believe that's a spe of the zoning code At All by any stretchy imagination and that's the reason why you have the opportunity to come through the zoning board to put on the proofs on the record on why you believe overall you can meet the requirements of the zone as well as the master plan itself with that being said I want to go real quick into the density itself the density is 76 which exceeds what's allowed on the subject site the density is essentially 7.6 Acres uh you 7.6 units per acre which far exceeds what's permitted there today right now and I understand that I also understand though that this project is right for development especially when you consider the fact that we are now in the fourth rounde of affordable housing the ECA has dedicated or assumed a dedication of a number of 685 685 units for this municipalities if you were to do the regular multiplier effect of inclusionary development ordinarily speaking with inclusionary development you do 20% affordable 80% market so that one to five ratio 68 5 * 5 I'm not a mathematician but I know it's over 3,400 units is that coming to this Township absolutely not nor am I trying to say that it's going to come to this Township but what I am saying is that there is a need for affordable housing here and we believe that a subject property that is adjacent to town homes and is also adjacent to municipal buildings AKA in the middle of multiple different zonings that this is absolutely ripe for an inclusionary development it is not like this developer is walking into town saying I'm going to tie up five single family homes and try to do a high density here that's not the case we were very conscientious when we were looking for the site and that's why we chose this site and we have actually been on this journey for the past two years trying to figure out what would be most appropriate for this board and I just want to take a moment to thank the board's professionals who have been working with us throughout this journey itself with that being said I'm going to have three total Witnesses here tonight my first witness will be this gentleman to my left Mr Josh Seawall Dynamic engineer enging followed by my traffic engineer Corey Chase and then we're going to wrap it up we have an opportunity for my planner Christine Kone if I may board chairman I'd like to introduce my first witness and start with the civil engineering testimony sir would you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell your whole truth so whole for God I do can you give us your full name spell your last Josh SE is it it's got to be green green light should there we go uh Josh sewal s w I'm from Dynamic engineering Consultants all right terrific Mr sewald uh can youal sir oh that's how and do my apologies good sorry no problem uh Bachelor's of Science and civil engineering from Temple University I have my Masters of Science and civil engineering from Rucker University I do this on a regular basis I've testified before over 100 lanu Sports I'm a partner at Dynamic engineering and I have been before Oldbridge but it's been a little bit of time I was back here in 2018 for the track Supply application accept his expertise terrific thank you so very much thank you Mr chairman U Mr Seawall were you in charge with preparing the civil engineering plans for the subject site I was and have you also had an opportunity to visit the subject site I have when preparing those plans did you also review this municipality zoning code and master plan yes terrific why don't you walk us through what we're looking to do here certainly and if I could ask we could pull up just that first aerial sorry about that if I could ask you just put up um the first exhibit which is the aerial map exhibit for fantastic thank you um so the exhibit that's on the board before the board members on the public this is a simply an arial map exhibit the purpose of this exhibit is so that we can discuss the existing conditions of the site Identify the property and of course talk about the surrounding areas and neighborhood that we'll be uh looking at this evening uh this map is a satellite image it is part of the record civil drawings so I'll defer to you Mr pado if we need to mark it as an exhibit um I don't believe we need to mark an exhibit as it was part of the initial submission package that's I think we let's mark it as A1 okay just to ear on the side of caution I'm sorry to ear on the side of caution okay so let's do A1 a colorized version of the aerial today's date January 30th correct is there a date on it 130 I see yes okay so the the property that we'll be discussing tonight is outline in a red boundary the dotted white line that surrounds the property is approximately the 200 foot Property Owners list and then the blue lines um that are throughout the aerial map that is your Zone lines taken directly from the Oldbridge uh zoning map uh as you can see the property is very uniquely shaped in size uh it's approximately 99.9 AC we have a very limited Frontage of 50 ft on Green Street and as you could tell due to the unique polygon shape it starts to open up as you head from the south side which is the bottom of the plant and heads to the north uh which is to the top of the plant there are some Wetlands on the back property as Mr pada said in his opening uh we have been working on this site for quite some time and I'm happy to say that we have a wet Lance let over interpretation so know exactly where those wetlands are as well as the buffer in addition to that there is a stream that runs along the northern rear property line it's called um Deep Run in Bottle Brook uh again because we've been working on this site for a while we have successfully obtained what is called the uh d uh flood Hazard area verification what that does is it verifies the width of the buffer as well as the 100e flood plant if you've been to the property of deren P or you're in the local area it's been developed for some time I know that looks like there's a lot of woods on there but there's about six separate dwelling structures that are located in sparle spread throughout the project with various accessory sheds um and a couple of them are actually located today within that existing repairium buffer and within those regulated areas by the D and I believe based on just uh overall research of the property was a former Church cramp ground as well at one point as you could see the rest of the track of land does have Woods spread throughout it and finally the last thing I wanted to bring up in regards to the subject property is the um the different zones that we have and the communities that are near us so to the north of our property which again is to the top side of the page is the RS Zone it's also the Board of Education and the John Glenn school and additional residential homes again our property due to that unique boundary line is really following the stream of uh bottle Brook and Deep Run to the south of us at the bottom of the page is Green Street and the rest of the Green Street neighborhood of single family residential homes to the east which would be on the right side of the Plage is with is similar to what Mr pada said in his opening we do have residential homes and in the top right we'll call it the northeast corner across that track of wetlands and trees uh is the Avalon Bay uh townhouse development now to the West which is to the left side of the plan uh is the ER Zone basically environmentally restricted due to Wetland streams as well as do you happen to have a pointer yeah uh I do not be helpful for the people certainly um do you have one R rash always taking care of me helpful to the uh residents that are here work that on on your own I'm sorry to interrupt no problem I'll redo that I guess you can use it on this one y um so I I'll redo that quickly just um a couple items probably some people have never seen Aerials so not a problem um so again the subject property is identified in the red boundary Green Street is on the bottom of the plan and what I was mentioning is to the north so the top of the plan behind our property is streams in a wetland and then of course is the John Glenn school to the South like I mentioned is Green Street and the single family residential homes to the east of us is the ER Zone again that's more Wetlands flood plan and trees and to the I'm sorry that was to the west and then to the east of us you have more single family residential development and in that northeast corner uh is the Avalon townhouse development project in here between the Avalon townhouse development project and what our proposed application is is more trees wetlands and streams we could pull up when you get the chance uh the overall Seline rendering please thank you excuse me if we could just zoom out one more thank you that's great so I think we should Mark this A2 and yes just for clarification purposes Mr solicitor this is the same aial map that we were just looking at zoomed in at a different scale so we can see the intimate detail of the proposal and it is the site plan overlaid uh onto the use variance plan set that we provided before you and of course coloriz for tonight's presentation purposes so the top of the page is still to the north the bottom is to the South where Green Street is running and then uh just for color purposes the orange blocks are the buildings the light gray color is the uh access aisles driveways and parking areas everything else that you see in green is open space Landscaping vegetation storm water uh wetlands and and buffers what did you say was a 50 foot wide road down to Green Street so so we have 50 feet of Frontage on Green Street so the width of the property um starting right where it turns into a little bit of a flag lot is about 50 ft wide the road itself is not 50 ft wide it's about 12T on each side with a landscape island in the middle and then the rest of it is grass on the East and the West portion but the the driveways going each way would be about 12 and a half feet wide the the D the enter is 12 the exit is 12 and there's about a 3 foot uh landscape Island for aesthetic purposes in the middle and the rest of that dimension of the 50 ft will be Landscaping so the subject property in working with the developer um as you can see it's a very unique shape as we talked about when we were looking at exhibit A1 the very next thing that we did was of course look at the wetlands and the flood plane and we determined the vast majority of the 9.9 acres is Upland area for potential development The Next Step that we did in working with the applicant and the architect was of course to look at the zoning plan now I'll defer some of the planning discussion that we'll have later this evening with Miss cfone uh but our job as the site engineer is to ensure that what the applicant is looking to do complies as best we can with the underlying Zone standards what we call the bulk criteria and then of course to make sure that it is spaced well throughout the project and that it will uh be able to maneuver safely and efficiently so what we started to do in doing our site plan that's Bor you on exhibit A2 was we started to drop on some of these townhouse buildings because we know that it was a conditionally permitted use within the zone and then what we did was we took a look at the bulk chart and we dropped on what's called a building envelope that's the front yard the side yard the rear yard setback we also then further looked at the landscape ratio to make sure that we were not overdeveloping or increasing impervious coverage areas what I'm happy to report right out the gate that the 76 bu uh units that are proposed before you on this screen comply with all those first prongs of the criteria again the location of these buildings in regards to the side yard front yard and rear yard setback are compliant in addition to that when we take a look at the minimum landscape ratio uh your ordinance calls for about 50% basically leave 50% as as Green Space I'm happy to say that the layout before you is about 58% meaning that we exceed what the maximum allowable Development Area would be once we started to do that and we started to work with the rest of the team uh we wanted to make sure that the site functioned well so essentially starting at the southern portion of the site we have a Boulevard likee entrance right at the Green Street driveway when I say Boulevard that basically means that there's a nice landscape Island splitting the enter and the exit driveway work working our way up into the site what we did was we took all of the units in traditional townhouse development style and we had them face the interior Road the reason we do that is for our community design we want the backous of these build of of these units to be more of the backyard very similar to what you would see in your single family designs you don't want the front of houses being facing each other unless there's a road that's where your garage is your entrance to the front door your mailbox Etc the back is where your Open Spaces your playground area and that's what another main point of this site so we really tried to work in the shape and uniqueness of the property and then we really looked at the zoning area to make sure that the buildings uh fit well with the overall shape and design of the character of the property but then most importantly being sensitive to some of our uh residents who are also there today on Green Street and we went backyard to Backyard was one of the main points of what we were looking to do in addition to that um the applicant took another step further like Mr pada said in his opening a lot of times when we're here for bated use variances you hear that uh they cartoon sketches just conceptual and although yes this is a conceptual site plan it is engineered meaning we have topography from the survey we have those wetlands and flood plane uh items and then we did make sure that we could grade it out and comply with your storm water management standards we thought that was very important for tonight's presentation purposes because not only are you looking of course they're just 76 units from my standpoint from the civil engineer and the site planner we want to make sure that this works so I can let you know that this site has been more than just laid out from a site plan standpoint we do have our grading and drainage complete completed um to make sure that the the lock can handle the development coverage and we have our set aside uh of real estate so that we provide for St Water Management Mr Su did you testify earlier there's not going to mean any need for any bulk variances is that what you said no I said the bulk criteria and then I specified front side and rear yard setbacks and then we were uh over the landscape ratio there is some bulk relief with this which we'll get to just for clarification purposes Mr seall it was your testimony that this site is not asking for any variance relief related to either setbacks or Landscaping correct landscape ratio correct y thank you please proceed certainly um the next thing of course is the we have two different types of products up there we have our touse development as well as the uh Co is set aside and what you can see on the site plan is that some units such as the ones that my uh Mr rockes is uh Mr Do's uh pointer is looking at right now in front of those townhouse units we have a two-car garage and in front of that is a two-car driveway so there is no separate parking spaces in front of those units however spread throughout the facility is regular parking spaces because some units may not have garages in addition to that we understand that if you are entertaining for the holidays or you have guests over you need some extra parking spaces so we do have um a total of a a supplemental 38 parking spaces spread throughout the community uh overall again we're not here for preliminary and final Land Development but with our review of the property and the history we know that there is adequate uh utilities within Green Street so there is a sanitary sewer M and a water M that will be able to service well these 76 units overall the site was designed to as I mentioned in my opening and just to summarize before Mr pada has any questions for me it was laid out specifically to try to follow the unique shape and character of the land of the existing property boundary topographic condition and of course those unique environmental features in the back and then it was laid out to ensure that we were complying as best we could with the R12 Zone bulk criteria front side rear yard standard and most importantly in my opinion the landscape M which is a fancy way of saying the impervious coverage of the entire site lastly we ensured that the units were inward facing of the road which would be potentially that intensity of a multif family and townhouse style development and the backs side of the units where your green space are are all on the perimeter area of the site plane terrific I just have a few questions for you Mr sewald uh regarding site suitability from an environmental perspective do you see any issues for the subject site no sir okay can you please describe why you say now I don't see any concerns with the subject site U from an environmental standpoint um what we did like I mentioned on the Northern side of the property we identified where the stream was uh we were able to obtain a verification from the D confirm that it's a 50 foot repairing buffer and the in the d's eyes they will actually see this as a positive uh should this be approved and redeveloped because we will be removing existing non-conforming structures that are within their repairi and buffer so they get back their real estate that they're looking for as well as um a cleaner area along their stream it's similar as well on the North Western portion of the site that we do have a pocket of wetlands which we delineated and then we further made sure that we complied with the loi's buffer standard they too have a 50-ft buffer and we'll be removing other encroachments that are within that environmental area finally the existing site today although only partially developed has various structures and a a paved SL dirt road that goes back there all of that today is uncontrolled and there is no ston water onsite due to the existing nature of the property and Legacy so with the Redevelopment of the property you will actually get a robust and compliant stor water management system so in my professional opinion from an environmental standpoint this is an improvement and an enhancement to what's out there today terrific I have another question for you regarding existing conditions is it accurate to say that the existing conditions that are on the subject site today are non-conformity yes okay going back to the existing conditions are there any storm water management improvements with on this site there is no existing storm water management facilities on the property and would it be your expert testimony that in the event that this board would find favorable we would take the next stage into doing PR and final site plan approvals that we would be able to accommodate all potential storm water runoff and not cause any issues for any adjacent parcel that's correct and they are preliminarily designed and part of the record drawings that are with the board is it also typical that ordinarily speaking whenever you're doing a development that triggers variance relief you want to do the very best you can to aerate any potential issues I say that to say is that why we made sure that we exceeded the landscape ratio to be 60% and also to make sure that our setbacks were more than adequate so that there would be no interferences with our neighboring Parcels that's correct we call that in the engineering and planning world the balance test we know that many applications including the one this evening have some type of relief that's why we're before you uh presenting our case so we didn't want to just meet the minimum we figured that if there was a sensitivity to this project that the overdevelopment discussion may happen so we wanted to look at that b criteria and say okay if the zone of R12 contemplated um that 0.5 landscape ratio that you could pave and develop 50% of the site we did not want to meet that maximum we wanted to be underneath that to show that with good planning and design on the subject site that we were under that threshold meaning that even though we are seeking some deviations and you'll hear from Miss conf phone about some of those um that we wanted to show that with with those deviations you will then get more landscaping and development uh less development coverage with our application great now the proposal that we have before this Bard again is conceptual nature as it is not a prelimary nor a final site plan that we're seeking approvals for here tonight with that being said we have 14 affordable units in the 76 if we were to increase it to from 14 to 16 out of those 76 in order to meet that 20% includ development do you see any issues from a civil perspective not at all like I mentioned we we have plenty of real estate from a development coverage standpoint we wouldn't need to exceed any of the bu criteria that we mentioned and I believe that there's adequate space between various buildings on site to comply with that 20% okay and the last question that I have for you is again we're going for a bifurcated use application meaning that we're only seeking the approvals for the use variants in the density right correct so in reality what we're actually asking for his approval for essentially the canvas for us to get testimony from both the board professional and commentary from the public to have a better understanding on what to propose in prary and final site plan stage so really it's a partnership would you say absolutely thank you I have no further questions for this witness thank you Mr SE Dar I don't really have any engineering related questions because I think most of the testimony a lot of the testimony that Mr really supports the the planning testimony I believe that Miss Kone will be giving I I I think we it's up to the chairman whether we want to talk about planning now we wait till Miss cavone testifies but there's no engineering related questions that I have Mr how many affordable units will there be uh right now the application shows 14 Mr pader just uh gave a little bit of uh questioning about can we get it to 16 and I testify that yes you can what's 20% of 76 16 I had do the math too and um are the unit the affordable units going to be interspersed throughout the community or they going to be combined and like they are so um there's a couple buildings that are spread throughout the community I'll Point them out with my pointer shortly there's your pointer I'm sorry Mr Do's pointer umry you say your pointer you're pay me 25 bucks an hour I know I know um there is one building over here that is um houses the the COI units and then what we could do based on the other two that we were mentioning is that we can tack it on to any of these two units over here where that real estate space is so you're saying that the units then will be Under One Roof so to speak they're not going to be here and there throughout the community is that right uh at this time no so the they can be with the two extra units on the buildings on the North side but right now all the units are located under that one roof but they are in between the other buildings and as the crow flies how far is the I guess the east side of this property from the sorry what do you call the other the exis Javon Bay property um I can get you that Dimension I just need can go back to my scale and my paper copy that I have behind me thank you thank you very much I me I'm done thank you you got something to answer him I can get that to mention for sure I don't see Miss cfone is she here she's not here the bright sweater oh there she is yes so Mr Dy measuring it on on the uh Aerials it looks like the Avalon Bay is about a th000 ft from the the property the actual town homes or about a th000 feet wait for the wi I wait till you got up to measure before we do that I agree that the actual Avalon town home structure to our property line is about a th000 feet from their property line to our property lines about 950 ft what's in between the property line Woods streams Wetlands their Township on they are actually it's it's open space that was part of the cluster development that was built not avlon Bay it's the single family home cluster development that was built so uh and that is what triggers the D3 one of the condition that it does not meet and I think it's critical if I may go right ahead there a lot to say uh what I was getting at is is is they don't touch each other they don't and I think there is that was testimony that they do no the testimony was practically speaking if you were to look at from an aerial perspective they look like adjacent Parcels however if you look at the tax map there's absolutely separation for that open space so it's practically speaking yes okay but not actually speaking no okay and I think that's an important point because the condition so townhouse devel Ms are permitted as a conditional use the reason I believe that condition was put in so that uh similar land uses are next to each other when you look at the land use pattern with the within the surrounding area to me it's purely single family homes uh there is no townhouse development that is close to uh this subject property if I may recall almost 2 years ago must be 1 and a half 2 years ago that we met for a pre-application meeting and when we met for a pre-application meeting the concept was completely different it was 18 single family homes which kind of uh blended with the surrounding we didn't talk much about the density the only um variance it would still require Zoning Board review but the variance that was required ired at that time it was the floor area ratio so which is not as significant when you're doing a development this scale and especially with single family homes because traditionally as the household grows we have seen the zoning board have seen other single family home developments that come in and want to enlarge the house or add a bedroom but the density is I think critical in this case the density that is being proposed is significantly high when I saw the application I was really surprised because in my mind I was getting a subdivision for single family home versus a townhouse development that was submitted the one thing I I do want to say because I know you talked a lot about Kaa and affordable housing Even in our um inclusionary housing projects that were approved as part of the third round we have never approved a density this High there was a zoning board application that was approved last year um and the board Might Recall even there we worked with the developer to reduce the density it was for duplexes but that density was 4.58 and it was for duplexes the 7.36 I don't remember any uh application that was approved with such a high density and when I emphasize on density it clearly shows that the project does is not compatible with the neighboring land users ande please please be quiet I don't want to get distracted with my thoughts uh so please Don't Clap um so the biggest problem I have with it and I I don't want to hold back uh for the planning testimony I think it is critical that we discuss it now to me it's more like a flag lot um when you develop a flag lot the most important thing is uh emergency service access our fire chief has already made comments that the driveway is is not conforming uh it will not support Emergency Services imagine there is a fire in the last townhouse building there is no way the fire engine is going to go go there going back to my favorite topic affordable housing I do not agree that it is interspersed between the development when you have all affordable units stacked in one building it's not true uh inclusionary to me so in the past I have never sat at this board and approved a have recommended that the board approve a development where in affordable units are not interspersed or our part truly inclusionary in a development so I cannot really see or Envision something like this in Oldbridge the other most important thing going back to density right and I I know I'm all over the place but it's just random thoughts because there's so much for me to say um when and I I don't mean to be disrespectful uh but to me it's more like designing Barracks you don't have rare yard space when you have buildings that are backing each other when there is 25 ft in between where is the reil yard where is the open space you're trying to build as much but where are you creating open space for the community that is going to live there where is there a tart lot or a play area there's nothing left because you're building everything just because you meet the landscape area ratio doesn't really mean that that you're being you're doing Justice to the surrounding neighborhood so I was hoping uh that when my when the review memo was issued I would have expected that the applicant would have come back to us for a technical review so that we could have talked about this more because I think I was quite explicit in my review me Memo about planning comments when you ask for a D3 variance and out of the three conditions you don't meet two conditions to me it's in the wrong place then and even by law court has said that when you don't meet a certain condition originally uh a D3 would be evaluated similar to a used variance later on in the commentary case you know the court had said that if there are other conditions that uh the board can or if you can prove to us that the deviation that is requested can be overcomed or you're trying to mitigate it's a different story but tell me how you would mitigate the traffic that will be created with the 76 homes how do you what is the plan to uh you know we do have a traffic engineer and I think I get it I'm I I just want to take this opportunity to make the comments that I can which probably help you think in the right direction uh and also helps the Board I I truly uh want you to think about these things that you know when you're asking for D3 how are you really trying to address that issue there is no townhouse development next to it the the idea of having that condition was to have compatible land uses proved to me me that there are compatible land users I don't see any tow houses around if you would have created a townhouse development with a lot of open space like a cluster development it was a different story you're not asking for a cluster development here right so I I really have serious concerns and um I think these are some of the things that you should also think when you are planning or designing but um I'll hold off from I think I said a lot do you have do you know what the U number of units per acre is on the Avalon site I don't sir what's the density in the residential area which I guess is in the southwest side I haven't analyzed anything other than our property when it comes to density well don't you think that would be important to know what this I mean what the neighborhood is in terms of density I I can't hear man don't you think it would be important to know what the density is of the adjoining properties in my professional opinion and please correct me if I'm wrong Mr pada every application stands on its own I didn't ask you that would it be important for this for the board to know you're asking for density variance is like double what's allowed it would it be important to know the density of the surrounding neighborhoods I'm not saying it wouldn't be important I'm saying I have not analyzed would it be important or not I think we haven't had a chance to give all of our testimony about do you have an opinion about that I don't he's answered the question for chairman no he didn't answer the question he finally said he doesn't have an opinion he didn't say before he did okay thank you you know with respect to the co-units uh this board has never approved U anything inclusion and to be inclusionary not in one building and I know what M Swant was referring to in that project uh they intersperse those throughout the community and I don't think uh certainly that that would be a good idea if there was any approval to to think about putting them all in one particular cluster uh one one unit so certainly that would be something that I think you guys would want to work on well noted Mr chairman okay um Mr Dary do you have anything I'm going to ask the board have any questions I mean essentially what would would vus said is is what I would have said as far as the intensity of development the the D3 conditional use variants basically the conditions are are put in place for to uh say that town homes are are permitted in this Zone if they meet these conditions and then they really have to do with compatibility and in intensity of development and and how these uh ills are mitigated the one of the conditions specifically speaks to the uh the limitation on increasing traffic on the roadway uh to 10% whereas the the applicants um traffic study Bears out and I'm sure we'll get to that when Mr Chase comes up but um the applican traffic study Bears out that it's greater than a 10% increase so really they're not meeting the intensity and they're not also meeting uh the density requirement and compatibility the the whole point of being adjacent to a town home development is again to be be in a compatible neighborhood the the the adjacent town home development is over a th000 ft away and it's also not accessed from any of the roads in this general area it's accessed off of a main road which is off of ferry so Ferry Road is is again a much more heavily traveled busy roadway which would be more you know suitable for a development of the size and intensity to be accessing from all right thank you uh just to make my record clear here my notes the uh units per acre was 7.6 or 7.36 7.6 correct 7.6 I believe 7.6 okay I heard somebody mention 7.36 but originally wrote 7.6 I'm GNA go to the board see if they have any questions of you sir okay I'll sort on my left no sir okay earlier just for clarification for myself 18 single family homes was going to be for this area this project what did you say the yes um we had a pre-application meeting almost two years ago and that concept was for 18 single family homes so it's jumping from 18 single to 76 76 units okay anything else Mr Rizo oh I'm good thank you VI chair yeah I just like I'm the attorney to clarify you stated it's 60% L it's not it's 58% so it's on the record correctly I apologize again I said 60% that is absolutely accurate I said there's a lot of misnomers in here so straight on the record U Mr seaal what exactly is it do you remember thank you anything else on my right L councel chairman just a couple more uh sure go ahead Mr Soler council did you have an opportunity to review the uh the report from the fire department of date of November 20th of 24 I did yes sir and I I was intending on addressing a couple of Venus questions after the board had uh final comments well if I can part of it says the current entrance width of 12 feet with the Middle Island does not meet minimum requirements of fire apparatus access roads and but if you can I'm sorry excuse me I beg your pardon I'm I'm sorry it says in part the current entrance width of 12 ft with the Middle Island does not meet the minimum requirement for fire apparatus access codes and and if you continue reading he said if an island will still be at the entrance uh I would request it to be mountable as curbing so I do agree with Fire Marshall fire code says 20 feet wide so it's a Boulevard style design where you would like to have a landscaping in the middle it also complies with rsis however if it was truly an issue we could remove the landscape Island and then we would have wider than 20 ft but it is my opinion and I haven't had the chance to work with the fire marshal yet because these are more intimate site details not necessarily bifurcated use fence discussion I do believe that his last sentence gave us the opportunity to say just make it mountable and we will be okay with that well this report's two months old you haven't had a chance to talk to the fire department since uh we were scheduled I believe for a a December hearing and then we did get adjourned I think there were some sickness coming around the board so we didn't have a chance at that time well are you saying saying that you would remove the island to make the W make the excuse me remove the the island in the middle to make the roadways wider is that what you're saying no the the roads are plenty wide enough in my professional opinion well that's not what he says I mean right he said the current entrance of 12 feet does not meet the minimum requirements for fire apparatus access roads again the last sentence though it says if it was to remain he would just like it to be mountable it's my testimony that we can make it mountable for him why would you need a mountable what you know what the purpose of is you know purpose of a mountable curb is so that the any vehicle could drive over it with because you don't have enough room right that's not necessarily true well then why why do people have mountable curves Mr solicitor the a access driveway is 12 feet in each Direction it's 24 feet why do people have I'm trying to answer your question Miss I promise you so what I'm saying is it is common in Boulevard like entrances for residential developments to have a landscape Island I do believe it complies however the Fire Marshall says in that last sentence if you would like to keep it please make it mountable it doesn't mean that it can't work it just means that you would then use it to go over if it is truly a concern of the board and the public we can remove the landscape Island and then you will exceed the minimum 20 ft you see you didn't answer my question why do people have mountable curves I believe that the witness here has answered that question and if I may State the Fire Marshals won the jurisdiction to determine whether or not a fire apparatus could be safely maneuvered on the subject site not the board attorney and he has opined that if we were to make these modifications that in fact it would provide adequate access Mr SE does that wrap up your take a shot at me it's not me it's the fire department said it's not wide enough not the bur not the not the board attorney respectfully can you please read that last sentence again of what the fire marshal said in the alternative in order to satisfy his concerns if an island will still be at the entrance I would request it to be mountable curbing as well and the applicant is happy to make it mountable thank you Mr chairman just one one thing is the width of of the streets sorry of the streets the inter internally curently they are over 25 ft wide and does that meet rsis standards which is the state standards it does thank you Mr chairman just one thing I know that um there was a question about what the uh Avalon Bay the the adjacent town home Community uh density is uh Miss Miss s and I just uh reviewed that and with our files and uh the density for Avalon Bay is 2.75 units per acre the 2.7 2.75 sorry Mr S one other question about the report uh the report from the fire department on page two the Fire official says there's no fire hydrants in the project is that right it that is a detail if you take a look at his language um the says the plan shows no fire hydrants it the the comment though above it says um it starts talking about fire lanes and it will be determined prior to final project approval so Mr solicitor when you go and you provide a preliminary and final Land Development set you would have intimate details about water and sewer and and things that are not necessarily part of bifurcated I'm happy to testify that this project will absolutely have fire hydrant spread throughout it but this set that was provided for the board for the bifurcated nature of it has enough detail to discuss the use aspect the density the F but it doesn't have the intimate site details that would be associated with preliminary and final but you are hearing my testimony now this of course will have fire hydrants in the community thank you absolutely thank you anything further uh yes I just have just a couple questions for this witness uh actually just one really is it your testimony that although we have and we've shown the plans here today that the town homes include a CO a COA inclusionary which is dedicated only to one Pacific space as of right now and would there be any issues doing an inter dispersion of those affordable housing units no no issue at all thank you yes so my first question was just simply today as the concept plans look is the AOA units dedicated to only one building that was my first question and his answer was yes and then my second question was could we modify the plans to inter disperse them throughout the site and his answer was yes yes sir what's your plan on other Witnesses this evening uh I'm G continue and I'll get to that a moment Mr Sew thank you so I'm very cognizant of how the dialogue has gone back and forth between the board the public and the professional reports but this may come as a surprise but I'm very happy and why do I say that is because as the board attorney would test would would admit this board is a quas judicial board what does that mean it means that if this was the regular planning board I would have no issues whatsoever asking for a conceptual plan with maybe some board members there so I could hear their opinion I can't do that when it's a quasi judicial you're not allowed to so that carve out of the B forat use application gives me that exact opportunity so that I can hear what you guys have to say for this site and so can the board and then therefore my team can go back and we can figure out what's the highest and best use for this site for us for you and for the public and full disclosure so far this has been absolutely fantastic and why do I say that because now we know that 18 single family homes could potentially work here we know that if we were to go down the town home development we now have a range of what the density could potentially be and we also understand that if we were to do Town Homes those units themselves have to be interdispersed so to go back to your original question board chairman I want to continue just so I can get as much fruit as possible from this tree and I'm sure with you're going to hear some feedback from the I would assume local residents yes absolutely to that portion you're going to put another witness on tonight yes sir all right by all means thank you board chairman may I please uh bring up my next witness my traffic engineer Mr Corey Chase also of the firm Dynamic engineering Mr Dy sure sir would you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth to help the GU I do can you give us your full name spell your list sorry certainly it's Corey c o r y last name is Chase c h e Tor Chase thank you before you before you proceed uh Mr Chase um the board uh the two board uh professionals need to be sworn as well Mr dy I do I also affirm that everything I've said up to this point was also the truth same here thank you Mr Chase I'm sorry for the interruption go ahead no problem again Corey Chase with Dynamic traffic a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey license is currently a good standing Bachelor's of Science degree in civil engineering from the University of Massachusetts have been previously qualified as an expert in traffic engineering before over a 100 municipalities throughout the state thank you we'll accept your expertise sir thank you Che Mr Chase have you had an opportunity to visit the subject site I have and have you also had an opportunity to study this site from a traffic perspective I have why don't you walk us through your findings and conclusions certainly uh our role in the application was to consult with Mr sewald on the the overall layout of the Town Home Development the site access uh the circulation the parking areas for both the town homes as well as the surface parking stalls that M Mr sea Wald mentioned uh we also prepared a traffic impact study previously submitted to the township dated February 23rd 2024 uh what that does is prepares a pre- and post-development Analysis of the overall traffic impacts of the development on the adjacent roadway network uh to develop the traffic generation projections generated by both the town home portion of the development as well as the condominium portion of the development we consult the data published by The Institute of Transportation Engineers uh that's the national and state recognized standard for developing traffic projections not just for residential developments but for also commercial office and industrial and those alike we utilize the 11th edition of the trip generation manual which is the most current version of that document the trip generation numbers are summarized on table three which is located on page five of our report as Traffic Engineers we focus on peak hour impacts what that does is it represents a worst case scenario impact on the adjacent roadway Network for residential developments that typically coincides with the peak commuter hours so we focus on the weekday morning and weekday evening Peak commuter hours to get a good Baseline of how the adjacent roadway network is operating and then we Sarge the additional traffic generated by the proposed development and do a comparative analysis to determine if that additional traffic would cause any detrimental impacts on the adjacent roadway Network so again as I mentioned table three on page five of our report summarizes the overall trip generation of the development again Broken Out by both town home and condominium portions of it uh you can see in totality the the site projected to generate approximately 60 trips during each of those peak hours 6 Zer sir yeah and specifically sir it's 54 trips in the weekday morning and 60 trips during the weekday evening peak hour translates to approximately one trip per minute during those times to give the board an ideas to what that level of traffic generation constitutes the New Jersey Department of Transportation they've set a threshold of 100 additional trips during a peak hour is what they term to be a significant increase in in traffic so we're approximately 60% of that threshold of what they would term to be a significant increase in traffic we did however as I mentioned we did do a pre- and post- development analysis on the adjacent roadway network uh looking at the adjacent intersections of van over drive and Green Street Marboro Road vanover Drive and Nikki Road as well as what our site access would operate that intersection with Green Street as well those results are all summarized on table four which is located on page six of our report as I mentioned we did that pre- and post-development Analysis so the no build is future traffic without consideration of our proposed development build is the future traffic with the additional traffic generated by the proposed residential development uh you can see in that table the each movement at those three intersections that I mentioned before are all calculated to operate at level service a during each of those peak hours so no degradations in level of service as a result of the additional traffic generated by the proposed devel M I know Mr bras mentioned earlier there are uh specific conditional use requirements associated with the town home development I believe there were three that were traffic related I'm sure M Mr pado will remind me if I miss any um one of them is the traffic volumes for the proposed development should not exceed a volume to capacity ratio of 0.8 for the adjacent streets so that table four also provides the volume to capacity ratio associated with each of those levels of service that we calculated as you can see they're all well below that ratio of 0.8 so we do comply with that portion of the conditional use requirement the second one is traffic volumes for proposed development should not increase the peak volume by 10% or more of the adjacent roadway Network um Mr brasada touched on this a little bit in his opening uh based on the existing volumes along Green Street we do exceed that 10% increase during the peak hours um anything more than two single family homes would exceed that requirement so just to put that in perspective for the board and the third and final traffic related conditional use requirement is traffic volumes for the proposed development should not reduce the level of service at impacted intersections to level of service F uh so we do comply with that requirement as well as I mentioned in the pre and post-development condition all of the intersection studied movements are going to operate at level of service a during both the weekday morning and weekday evening Peak periods uh I know it's just conceptual in nature uh but we do meet the township parking requirements down what requirements parking requirements for the subject property uh through a combination of surface parking stalls as well as Mr seaal mentioned we will be providing two car garages uh and driveways for each of the town home units so we do satisfy the township parking requirements from that standpoint um I believe in my professional opinion we will have safe and efficient circulation throughout the site and again as I mentioned through the pre- and post- development analysis uh both the site driveway and the adjacent roadway Network we determined that there weren't any sign significant traffic related impacts Mr basada be happy to touch on anything else you think I may have missed Happ to answer any questions that the borders professionals has may ask some thank you witness thank you so much level of service what is the level of service for the subject site it's level of service a and both the pre- and post-development condition for each of the intersections that we studied thank you um my next question is for residential zone is it customary for there be a peak volume restriction of 10% in in my my studying of traffic throughout the state this is actually the first time that I've seen that re that uh conditional use requirement placed on his own okay and just for clarification purposes I I think that we just want to clarify the fact that there are garages for the town homes but not for the actual COA units isn't that correct that is correct thank you I have no further question did you say not for the COA homes not for the COA correct there there are surface parking stalls there are 27 uh parking stall surface parking stall is located in close proximity to those units along the the Western building facade as well as the northern building facade there's a total of 27 service parking stalls in that area councelor anything else for your witness I have no further questions for this thank you Mr doie just a few things Mr chairman um first uh as far as the the question about the 10% increase I mean just to clarify for the board um yeah it is not a customary restriction for residential zones but this this is not a restriction this is a condition a conditional use requirement right so the whole point going back to again what we said earlier Township committee essentially just to put it in in in you know uh normal terms basically says yeah town homes are are okay in this Zone if it's not too too intense if it's compatible with the adjoining development adjacent development and if it doesn't have an uh detrimental impact on the roadway Network so that's the reason why the 10% requirement is there it's not a restriction it's a condition right um and as far as one other question regarding the uh Mr Chase mentioned the you know the dot standard uh for what's considered a significant impact um so just real when the do says greater than 100 trips that's typically for DOT roadways right it is sir I it was really just Mr Dar is correct it's it's referring to a DOT road I routinely testify to that in both County and local roads as well just to give the board an idea as to H how is 60 trips in relation to what someone may term a significant increase in traffic right the Dos put forth that threshold we we present that I often present that threshold in testimony uh you know in certain cases we'll argue that if we're below that threshold we don't need to do a traffic study things of that nature but in this case even though we were below that threshold we went ahead and did the full traffic impact study for the benefit of the township right it's so just you know that I I get what Mr Mr Chase's point was hey the do doesn't consider anything more than uh 100 trips increase in in peak hour to be significant but to put it in full context that's usually when we're talking about do roadways that have you know 10 15,000 trips a day right we're talking about Green Street which is which is more of a local road so so when we're talking about significant impact you really have to to sort of view it through that lens more so than just the that 100 trip but I do I appreciate what you're saying Mr one anything Mr Chase I'm gonna ask you a question you know I'm gonna ask you to do me a favor um you're a professional and I respect your credentials and I respect your education and everything you said I'm sure is spot on and I'm sure you didn't miss but it means nothing to the people that are sitting here because they don't have the degree you have they don't have the foggiest idea what you just said they all du respect they want to hear how's it going to affect Green Street in plain English could you explain that to them there's 76 units let's assume there's two cars a unit 152 right 162 152 I told you I'm not good at math 152 I'm giving you the Ben for thank you he wasn't lying 152 all right and people go to work normal people go to work s to between 600 and 8 amm would you agree typically if you worked in the daytime if you work in the daytime yet we see typically anywhere from 6:00 am. to 9:00 a.m. typically someone's leaving for work uh and and I apologize uh for not no no you put on the record what you need to put on the record I understand that and I understand most of it they don't I don't think there's an engineer sitting in the in the audience I may be wrong but there is there I am wrong okay you understand it sir okay but you're one of whatever there is in your 45 people so how is that going to affect those cars coming out to Green Street making right left or wherever certainly and so you're correct and that is one of the benefits of these types of developments it's not like an office development where everyone shows up at 9:00 a.m. everyone leaves at 5:00 p.m. those trips are dispersed over the course of generally as you mentioned 3 hours typically we see people start leaving for work at 6:00 a.m. all the way up until 9:00 a.m. similarly coming home we'll see people start arriving home at 400 p.m. all the way to 6: even 7:00 p.m. so you get a dispersion of traffic it's not a situation where uh where School arrival or School dismissal occur dismissal occurs and that it's very much a concentrated traffic impact this is more dispersed over the course of several hours and that's what those numbers that I spoke to represent they represent what the Institute of Transportation Engineers through studying existing town home and condominium developments have garnered for actual traffic generation so it's based on research studies of existing developments we plug in the amount of units that we're proposing that gets those projections there and that's what I spoke to it's it translates to approximately one vehicle every minute during that peak hour it's approximately 60 trips so every minute during the course of that singular peak hour there'd be one additional vehicle on that road does that mean that they're going to be equally dispersed throughout that hour certainly not you may have some minutes where there's two vehicles leaving three leaving you may have some minutes where there's none it's going to be dispersed throughout that hour we look at that overall hour as what the impacts are that's where Mr Brad always likes to talk about levels of service that's where the levels of service come into play so we actually we take the traff accounts for the existing roadway Network to get an idea of what how many cars are on the road now are they going right left straight and we take that and plug it into an analytical software that we have and it actually rates the operations of the intersection those levels service it's similar to school they go from a to f f doesn't mean that you failed and you don't pass a class f means that that intersections at capacity meaning that there are more cars trying to go through that intersection than can actually get through that intersection that's what level of service f means as I mentioned these intersections are all at level of service a so that means that they are operating with additional available capacity they could actually accommodate more cars going through them than are going through today um so we're adding our additional traffic onto what's out there now we look at it before and after and see that there's no change so the the overall traffic impact would not be perceptible to to anyone driving by and that these additional units would be developed there's obviously going to be additional traffic associated with them are they going to have a substantial impact on the operational conditions on the adjacent roadway network based on our analysis they wouldn't and Mr chairman I hope that was a more clear explanation of what we're proposing if it's not not to me you have to tell them hold on if we assume that you you're the record show people leave between six and nine is that what you said three hours yes sir so if we divide it that we'd get about 50 cars per hour and that comes down to the one per minute is what you're talking about but the truth of the matter is people people don't go in at uh 852 they don't go in at 8:14 they probably go in at 8 but they go in at 8:30 most jobs start on the hour or the half hour so the rush would be quite a few cars coming out at the same time right not necessarily sir because everyone's commuting to a different location so they all got to get out of there though and there's only one way out they do but some people may be driving 10 minutes some people may be driving an hour and 10 minutes they're going to leave based on a different time there's only one Road in and one road out there that's correct so they have to come out and they have to meet up with Green Street correct you don't think that that's going to have serious impact on the on the neighborhood based on the number of units that we're proposing in the the traffic it's projected to generate no you've been on that road sir I have okay it's it um what about school buses has this all been tested for hold on hold on wait you all GNA get a chance to talk I and I I thank you for your patience but we have to do this as the attorney said this is a quasi judicial process so they need to put certain things on the record we need to question certain things and that's the way it goes you're going to get your time too so you can have your your questions of of the professionals uh that's coming so just let me uh finish with this school buses did we would they be able to turn around and yeah and that's correct and that's one of the benefits of the the site circulation you can see that this the internal roadway will provide a loop so they are 24 feet in width which Mr seald mentioned which is compliant with the state residential site Improvement standards so a school bus could enter facility head in a Northerly Direction Traverse this Loop in a counterclockwise Manner and egress the site back towards Green Street do you know if these are buy or lease I'm the wrong professional answer want record tell me what they are we don't know yet buy or lease we don't know yet okay thank you I appreciate you trying to trying to help the people out to just understand what the reality is it is the numbers speak for themselves but perception becomes reality certainly when you're living there I thank you for that any other questions of this witness Mr scagno thank you very much public transportation where's the nearest one I'm not aware of where the nearest public transportation is Sir should how will there be residents walking so we conservatively assume that there was no Associated public transportation with the development we certainly get in certain cases we will take a credit for the proximity to mass transit will reduce the amount of tra external vehicular traffic because we'll assume as you mentioned a certain portion would utilize public transportation in this case sir we assume that everyone would just drive yes and regarding uh chairman Sullivan's indication of school buses have you been close to a school bus going by it's rather noisy and how many would you think would be in there how many school bus routes yeah I mean the schools that they would attend the CH what is is there an age group going in there is there a certain age again sir unfortunately I'm I'm the wrong professional answer that question the planer probably gonna is going to talk to us about that I would think I would yes those questions would be more appropriate for the player yes he's just I'll save it for that then thank you sorry sir and professionals anything more there witness I could I I don't have any questions Mr Jason did you say you have some please go ahead I'm sorry somebody else I so where are the offsite parking non driveway parking spaces the 30 was the 38 there are 38 Sears so there's uh just so I get my numbers correct there are they're 13 right here along the western portion or the Eastern portion of this drive aisle there's 14 are they going to park into the curb or along the curb they're head in sir so they're 90° parking there's no parallel stalls proposed within the development and is there parking just let's start with the First Street first area you said now is there head-on parking in both sides of that street just one sir all right so that would be let's say it's 10 feet or so if you're parking how much room is that car car taking that car is taking the parking stalls are 20 feet in depth street is 10 by didn't you just say is is it only a 24t paved interior roadway the roadway itself is 24 ft and then there's additional 20 ft of parking beyond that so in certain areas the roadway will be 44t in width if you're including the parking area in that okay um in the areas where you don't have head-on parking is there any restriction of having parallel parking this based on the conceptual nature we did not propose any restrictions I believe that was a comment and either Mr AR's review letter or the fire Marshall's review letter I saw that that they asked that we restrict parallel parking and we'd be amenable to do that you think you would restrict barel yes sir do you have an opinion let's presume for the sake of the discussion that the school buses are in that site at more or less the same time as people are trying to get to work right is there going to be room for a trap for a school bus to go through the area if somebody's trying to get out there is the 24 foot wide cartway width is sufficient for a school bus to bypass another vehicle coming in the opposite direction how wide's a school bus usually about 10 ft school bus is not 10 feet wide it's little less than eight feet sir okay right thank you point of order sir school buses put their emergency lights on you can't pass them certainly if the school bus was stopped with its lights on nobody would be bypassing that but I think what the attorney's question was is if it was driving and actually circulating the site getting to the stop could another vehicle pass it which it could Mr Rizo when uh let's get back to the study as years go on do you have do you implement an increase in traffic you're doing your study right now yeah we're talking A's and B's two years a year from now is the A and B's going to change there's certainly a certain amount of background growth that grows on in any roadway Network so for this area it's a 1% annual increase that we assume so certainly there will be some increase in just general traffic flows through the area so now this study was performed a year ago correct so is it safe to say that these numbers are going to be increased more than what you're we already did that so we increased it by another year with that background growth that I mentioned so we assume it to be in the future when we do our analysis that's a great question sir and I should have pointed that out but so we do counts out there to get the existing Baseline but then we use that growth factor to to factor it up for future traffic conditions that just assumes any increase in traffic over that time period um one more thing with the it's one way in one way out goer bid um that entrance gets blocked at accident vehicle stall bus stalls now now now you need an emergency vehicle off a bid somebody's having a heart attack how they getting in there and that was really the the Genesis of the channelizing island that Mr seall talked about the Landscaping Island that bifurcated this the residential site and Improvement standards they recommend in these similar situations that you provide that island so you're effectively creating two separate Lanes of traffic for just what you mentioned sir if if one lane Lane was to become blocked you would still have another Lane to be able to bypass that uh through traffic control would people be would still be able to get out in both directions I have a question there's a gas ve break you have one way in one way out now what there's a gas main break which has happened in Oldbridge already years past there was one way in and one way out of the development what do these residents do and it's at the beginning where your lines will be run in it certainly that would be dealt with by Emergency Management Personnel you know they would have to develop an evacuation program if that was to occur and advise the residents how to evacuate accordingly what's the other what's the alternate evacuation route we would have to work with Emergency Management officials to develop some sort of evacuation route should that an instance like that occur hold okay thank you Mr Dar you wanted to say something first just just srew thank you Mr chairman um just one quick question I I know we're at the you know Ed variance hearing so really we're we we're really dealing more with the intensity the compatibility all the stuff that we already talked about so site plan issues are something that that frankly we usually wait for site plan uh but I do have a question since the parking issue was was raised um the residential site Improvement standards require a half a parking space per unit be public available in a nonrestricted kind of area area so not in a garage and not in a driveway uh and and you do have that you have the 38 spaces because you have 76 units but the concern though is if you have um the affordable units which don't have garages or driveways those vehicles are actually going to be taking up some of those 38 spaces so in If This Were to get to a point where we're reviewing the actual detailed engineering plans my opinion would be that you would actually need that many more spaces on top of the 38 is this plan able to accommodate that we could certainly look at redispersing some of the service parking spaces um you know again my interpretation of the residential site Improvement standards was you would have the ability to utilize the driveway to count towards a portion of your guest parking uh and not necessarily need uh half a space per unit in addition beyond that um we do provide as I mentioned there are 11 surface parking spaces to on the Northern portion of the property that are surface guest parking spaces um you know we could certainly work if we were to get to the point of site plan to to look to better disperse those spaces throughout the site so there'd be a portion of them located throughout but I'm talking about the total number of actual spaces V so like I said my opinion would be whatever the space requirement is for the affordable units that gets deducted from those 38 altogether right so then you would need a half a space per unit available for for the rest of rest of the units so you would you would need to come up with additional parking spaces on top of what's there and I understand your point Mr dargy and I have to work with Mr seaall to find out what areas of site would be suitable for additional service parking area without encroaching on any buffers or things like that um I'm not sure I'm completely I understand it is traffic related it is parking related but there are other impacts associated with where we locate those parking stalls I wouldn't want to commit to anything that Mr SE would then tell me that was infeasible but we would certainly be willing to work with your office to look to accommodate those additional spaces in an appropriate area okay but the plan that's presented tonight doesn't comply with that though is my my again for the record though this plan is conceptual in nature they're not the exact site plan details the plan you submitted into evidence I mean if we were to approve your use variant um approval this evening it would for 76 units they're going to look something like that correct absolutely okay so it's not conceptual you're but it is because we have not provided any details to the site plan the utility plan the storm water any of those details but hold on let me finish so we would have to work in parallel with your professionals to make a determination what they deem was safe and adequate and we're not at that stage like I said before we're simply just discussing what could be done here in the site the only opportunity for me to get this feedback is to be here I totally disagree with you the normal thing would be if your client would sit down with the engineers and professional staff before you come to a meeting that's not correct you're asking that this plan be approved it's not conceptual well just to just to stand that narrative you're absolutely right we do have the ability to speak to the board professionals and we have that's absolutely correct but as you know this is quasi judicial and no board members could attend that and the board members they're the ones who vote and it's the Public's concerns that we have to take in consideration in order to propose something that's consistent with all Visionaries so therefore I'm here tonight trust me when I say there is nothing more I would like to do than have a fully conforming application be here for an hour and be watching sports at home but that's not the case tonight we would have all like that yes but right now what I want to do is I want to hear everybody's concerns comments and questions and I'm glad you brought that up uh absent any more questions what I'm going to do is ask you not to present another witht us tonight there's about 40 people in this audience if I allowed everybody 3 minutes and if everybody wanted to speak we're going to be here for two hours I don't want that to happen many of these people I'm sure are workers and they need to get up and go to work in the morning some of them look like they probably have children at home as well so I don't want to keep them out any longer so if you would uh defer uh to my wishes I'd like to go to a public portion at this time and then after the public portion could I then redirect or how do you want to hand it it's to you'll be red you want to redirect to me or you want to redirect redirect you you you'll probably be answering them because that's not my job to answer them they may have questions for the of of the professionals that's why we have them here and then I would say uh we would not have time to put the Planner on this evening but we would do that at at next meeting sure absolutely and then procedurally speaking do you want to continue with this engineer the traffic engineer you want to go back to Mr wal is he done I'm done sir yes okay so they're both here they're both under under oath we can defer to both of them if you want to have both of them sit up sit here uh to help you answer to to have you assign the questions to them that would probably be interesting yeah I should have signed the questions I've tried to answer them before that's so good all right uh why don't you come up to the Das as well sir yeah sure I'll tell you what before we start it uh there are some people that just need a quick break I'd like to go into a two to three minute recess I really don't want to make it five uh so if anybody needs to use the restrooms please do so now go ahead I just have one question does this board have a hard stop at 10: or 10:30 just so I understand the agenda 10:30 hard stop sir okay thank you so much yeah all right uh we're going to go off the air now for a quick recess please as quickly as possible return to the courtroom thank you you okay right e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right we've returned from Recess microphone yes microphone we've have returned from Recess uh we're going to continue with matter 22- 2024 z335 Green Street LLC could I have a roll call please miss pelli certainly Mrs Andrews present Miss Chevalier here Mr ISO here Mr Scott here miss test present Miss Gomez chairman Sullivan here uh before we go to the public portion uh Mr lavalo is here he is the consultant the forestry consultant uh for the township uh in the event that there may be any questions would you please stand to be sworn sir just raise your right hand thank you Gary and in the event that we have to defer a question we wanted to put you under oath hello Gary lavalo all right councelor what my plan was now to be be able to open a public portion on this matter and see what kind of feedback we get from the people and let them exercise their right to comment on this application as at least up to this point I realize that we haven't had a planner testimony tonight and if you all understand the planner normally testifies last that's not going to happen tonight because we're we're going to run short of time so that'll be at the next meeting and the planner would would would be uh similar to miss saan who was a planner and they would testify to those type of issues and uh Mr scagno brought up an issue that probably the the planner would uh uh talk about I think Miss Andrews has some questions it would probably be more appropriate for the planner but what I'm trying to say to you is try and limit your questions to what you heard tonight let's not make any suppositions uh uh anything that was said fine if you have a question uh that's that's you're right as a as a a resident here to ask it but let's try and stay on topic and if you somebody's already said the same thing you let's not do it three times so you guys don't want to wait here any longer than I do and the professionals don't either but we'll try and take uh in an orderly fashion uh each one of you who want to who want to weigh in on this and we'll see what kind of responses you make uh you think questions you may have that we don't think about uh as your homeowners there and I want everybody here to know uh I don't know if you know quickly what what a board is and this is a a Judicial a quasi judicial board because we do have to rule on Municipal land use law and the applications that come before us we are volunteer citizens all from this Township we have to be by law there's no one up here paid except the professionals who work for the township and the attorney we are citizen volunteers so having said that I don't want you to think anybody has any skin in the game here other than we're all taxpayers and residents of this community okay just so you understand how the board is comprised with that I'm going to open it up to public portion uh I don't know if there's any speaker elected here amongst your group uh whoever wants to be first you can raise your hand I'm going to Sir well you're right up front so I'm I'm going to let you do it first uh I know you're a professional of some sort you said yes are you representing anybody I'm just a a neighbor from the neighborhood oh okay if he was representing someone that would be a different situation corre but I didn't change you to be an engineer is that correct yes I'm a professional engineer okay all right chairman if I may just ask two questions of you just for clarification uh one is the public portion right now is it limited to only questions or questions in state stents uh we'll accept both but I'd like them to direct on what the testimony was okay and then number two can you just ask if anybody in the public is actually an attorney who's representing any clients here tonight well that's what I asked this gentl yes and then you're going yeah is there any anybody who here is an attorney no okay thank you uh sir state your name uh please and uh raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth so help you I do your full name spell your my name is Paul llla l a v l l Mr L go ahead okay um I live on marbor road I'm close by this proposed development and um you over I've been a resident for 45 years there's been a number of developments that occurred over that time and they all pretty much conform with the zoning criteria and I do have some handouts for the board I pass out from my own review of The Proposal before you give anything to the board it's got to be reviewed by the attorney I don't know what it is I don't know who authored it or so if you want to give me one and give this the gentleman here at the table who is the also an attorney uh they would have to see that what do we have is there copies or should I go up there I'm going to give you okay okay you could the the applicant's attorney needs one he has to see it but before you can give that to the board uh we'll have to weigh in and while they do that is your testimony going to be long sir were your questions it should take five minutes uninterrupted I guess we can characterize this sir as your PR notes your outline you're going to be I'm sorry excuse me I beg your pardon oh it's on dire I I what describe this what is this okay it's a review of uh this project and also the developments that occurred over the last 45 years since I've lived in town okay if that's uh you know adjacent and right down the road all right yes sir excuse me Bor I just have one question is he opining as an interested party from the public or is he opining as a fact witness in engineering I just want to make that clar I wanted to see if we have an objector case coming I me yes I I don't know uh he's an engineer I so well then you we'd have to qualify him and decide what in engineering it was in special oh okay so what would you like to know where'd you go to school with your degree sir sir look this way M yeah oh oh to you give us your credentials your expertise your your educational background sure I received my Bachelor's of Science and chemical engineering from NGIT and also so Masters of Science and Engineering from NGIT are you a licensed professional engineer in New Jersey yes I am okay if I may board attorney I'm sorry if I may ask him a question thank you so very much uh you had stated that you're a licensed engineer I do not doubt that for even a moment uh though your specialty you had said chemical Engineers is a chemical engineering or civil engineering I'm licensed as a chemical engineer and that was my degree in it when I first started college I was a civil and I changed halfway through to chemical to get a job when I graduated okay so again your specialty is chemical engineer it is not civil Andor traffic engineer is that correct that is correct okay no further questions okay sir we're going to label this as 01 okay you going to accept it yes and then you and we'll distribute copies to the board you I think you had a lot more copies yeah I have copies well let's have them absolutely and then uh you can charie would need one as well you'll you'll indicate uh you can testify as to what it is and explain it yeah I'd rather the uh professionals get that so make sure sure that yeah keep one we can share one that's I would like Mr uh to have one sent it down yeah yeah we'll send it down yeah I did I did okay may the record show that I do object to this 01 piece of evidence being admitted as I have not had to review same well that's why I'm asking if this is an objector case are you going to present an obor's case yes yes it is well now it's a whole different situation now we can't do this well you know that I'll tell you what why don't you wait until the end I'll get you back up again let's hear what some of the other people because if you're going to present an obor's case you know that you can't do it this way why don't you get you got to go back over there and I'm not an attorney but what I do know is the procedure I have one that's right if I may before we continue to pass out the potential evidence that's trying to be emitted can we first determine whether or not this individual is an interested party or an objector it sounds like he's an objector so then uh in that case well I I understand that all right uh we're gonna hold this gentleman off until a little later who who else wants to speak all right sir I do raise your right hand no do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth to help you God I do give us your full name spell you my name is Daniel mcer uh I live at 323 Green Street spell your last name MCC urur Dy first name was what Sir Daniel Daniel thank you I'm not an engineer I'm I'm a resident uh I'm a home improvement contractor I'm not the meetings are not foreign to me because I have to go through them all the time for to build a shed um so I have a little not this level of expertise but I've jumped through hoops and this is more of an impact statement than anything else all right so you know my name is Daniel MCC I live at 323 Green Street my wife and I have been there for 35 years I raised three children on that street it's been a quiet safe low traffic Street ideal for raising a family everyone here knows that this proposed project will certainly change that significantly calling these requests variances well technically true it should be more accurately described as rezoning because we're not we're not barely going by we're doubling asking for 100% increase in some of the codes there are so many technical references and ordinance is mentioned in the notification that most people really don't understand it they just know it's something big and they object to it myself included the following D variances are the ones most troubling to me number one the traffic right we've been going on it I've been making notes to what I was going to say because it's a grown since we talked the maximum traffic increase is supposed to be 10% you're adding 74 units to a sole access is a street that doesn't even have 74 so to say it's more than 10 is grossly understated it's probably closer to 90 or 100% increase and then to call that a road when it's 12et wide is more of a driveway if there's a car parked on Green Street there's no chance on this Earth that an emergency vehicle or a bus is going to turn down that driveway it will not happen if we've all seen emergency vehicles on our street they struggle now just to get on Green Street but I digress Green Street along with second place do not have the capacity to accommodate this exponential increase in traffic it when during the holidays and weekends sometimes it's a one lane one lane one car at a time pass you have to pull over to let someone Buy It Now on a good day not to mention that there's the pedestrian traffic has to be considered there's no sidewalks there's children walking there's kids playing there's kids on bicycles there's women pushing their kids on in baby carriages this hasn't even been mentioned or it seems to be an afterthought we don't even have sidewalks we're going to be on that street right off of that 12T driveway we're creating an atmosphere where something catastrophic happening isn't a question of if it's more a question of when that's a doom and gloom but it's a reality it's a small Street this type of development requires adjacent to be adjacent to existing Town Homes I we've gone over that it's an absurd premise to say that a th000 fet of trees is considered an adjacent you've you've explained that clear enough I I'm going to skip that point because it's it's been belabored and well stated by you the floor area ratio which is something I'm very familiar with the floor area ratio is how big of a dwelling living space you can put on a property you're asking for 397 when the allowable is. 21 it's almost double double the that the code is in place for a reason it's a the code is formulated by civil engineers in place to prevent urban sprawl to prevent undue strain on infrastructure to protect quality of life on a small neighborhood to protect us that's why that code is there the 7.6 dwellings per acre on when 3.0 dwellings per acre is a current code is equally outrageous that's double that's this isn't a modest increase it's a more than 100% increase that's very plainly that's a textbook definition of urban sprawl it's a textbook definition of overpopulation as I stated these are just the primary variances considered considering these alone should sway you from voting for this it is viring nothing to offer the community nothing it's an attemp to it's an attempt to subvert the building codes bend them at vest these regulation have been established to protect the community from land developers there's one motivation we all know what this is It's greed you're cramming every square inch of house is just the for rent and and income these people are attempting to manipulate it to fool the community to permanently alter our way of life they'll simply move on to another town and another quiet community and when the dust settles we're just sitting here holding the bag profits gained at the expense of the community at the expense of the families that are left behind mind you there'll be some token of gesture of Goodwill new curbs new sewers some trees lining the streets this is window dressing I'm sure there's equally enticing monetary component to this endeavor that will benefit the town in some measure but at what cost who pays for that windfall I'll conclude with this whatever the amount of money that's driving this consideration it will most certainly one day evaporate how much money is worth ruining a neighborhood profits are temporary and for the few the damage to the community and a way of life is for the many it will be permanent this zoning board has an obligation to protect the community from greedy land developers to stop the urban sprawl this should be an easy decision decline request vote no that's all I have thank you Mr MCC I know that came from the heart and the board takes full notice of your comments next please raise your hand or come forward first man to raise his hand there step forward please sir board attorney El swear you in sir would you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth help you God yes I do give us your full names by last Paul prearis last name p r e k r i s thanks I'd like to Echo Dan's statements and a sentiment you know this L use variance density proposal is outrageous okay and I'm going just going to keep it very short and keep it right to the facts the width of Green Street okay is so short and not wide it it fits we barely fit two cars going side by side if I have friends come over and park in front of my house there's one car that comes by I've already had a car in front of my house hit because of this all right because of lack of width so that's the first point the fact of a 10% increase in traffic on surrounding streets I've done traffic studies I have an electrical engineering degree I'm not a professional engineer but in my opinion in traffic studies is a traffic study and he knows this so I'm going to you know when you look at it there are three to four school bus stops on Green Street Green Street is horseshoe shaped okay if it stops you're going to back up five to six cars minimum so say 10% increase you're looking at the density of the proposed not of a green street right that that just gets thrown off the map the next thing I want to add you talked about density of Avalon I'm glad you pointed that out it's a 10 2.5% density in Avalon great do you want to go to 7.6 triple insane yet Avalon at a 2.5% density has an emergency exit on a on a different street because of that where is it where is it for 7.6 I conclude thank you question just one question board chairman Mr Caris how many bus stops you you mentioned repeat that three to four bus stops just on Green Street by itself okay if I may Mr multiple multiple buses not just one multiple right but there's three different pickup zones least that I know of okay thank you if I may just ask one question uh Mr pis what's your uh street address 304 Green Street thank you who's next go ahead sir turn SAR you so would you raise your right hand right hand the other right do you swear or affirm to tell the whole trees help out I do sir and your full name spell your list Francis David kapitzky also known as Junior you put come into the microphone Francis David kapitzky also known as Junior can you spell your last name sir King ocean Papa Ida Tango Sam King Ida Eko I got can you bring them uh you're a nice tall gentleman k o p i t s k i e I have several objections uh as a resident lifelong of the neighborhood I've been there my entire life I grew up on Green Street lived on Green Street my parents still live on Green Street and I I live four houses away on marar Road in a straight line um when I was a kid this is a quiet Community neighborhood safe to walk down the street Green Street was a dirt road um now we have a development that wants to come into a single family community where uh young children walk to the school bus every day and I have serious problems with high density um in this case we have a a zoning ordinance for R12 I think that's an R12 Zone which is 3.0 homes per acre the the original implication was 18 homes now we have 76 so what ends up coming to my opinion of damage to the neighborhood um I read the reports online everything says oh minimal impact to the community to the community community over is 42 point something square miles I believe the community the neighborhood two different terms um the community is going to have some impact fire Services Police Services Etc um but the local neighborhoods can have a severe impact so my objections are that they underestimated the amount of vehicles that the facility will contain they underestimated the number of persons that the the facility will contain the input to the neighborhood the input impact to the town on pollution health hazards schooling Etc um so the neighborhood like we said it's a quiet little neighborhood exits at both ends at Brook in second place where several children walk and wait on corners for school buses with no Curbing and no sidewalks um as a past sfd member I will concur with the Fire Chiefs um speculation that it's going to be hard to get an emergency service truck back there especially something like a ladder truck it's already tough enough now if you go down Green Street and like one of my other neighbor said you park a car I can't get my F250 by them that's a normal size pickup I can get my little SUV R for by them sure but you know when you start talking that um our street has approximately 46 homes now that was a rough count me walking down the neighborhood about 94 to 100 automobiles when you start considering that the development itself they're calling for 76 units in 255 parking spots with surface water runoff and uh drainage to Deep Run and that um that would translate into in my estimation with um children maturing filling of bedrooms at one child per bedroom that this facility this development could receive over 300 cars that'll be moving in and out would you want your young child walking on a bus with 150 cars maybe trying to rush out and get to work in the morning recipe for disaster uh concerning the fact that one drop of oil can contaminate 100,000 to a million gallons of water and we intend to put three drainage ponds for surface water runoff to Deep Run water system does everybody aware here that Deep Run water system feeds the township wells in aquifer it runs behind comes out over near ramsfield and moves into the wed off behind running Road where the township Wells are you know you start putting more fertilizers more chemicals oil sulfuric acid e gly you're going to pollute that that Brook one drop of sulfuric acid will kill the ability of Aquatic and marine mammals to live in that Brook what what's a duty to the human body is that all passes Downstream later on now I'm not no engineer but I'm a resident who grew up back here my concern is they say it will have no impact on the services provided by our town anytime you make a high density development more domestic violence accidents you have assault battery you have people moving in that may or may not be desirable we can't control that but is it going to have an impact on our Police Department absolutely it's going to have an impact on the neighborhood absolutely are they going to turn around and push all their visitors out in the street 255 parking spots the actual growth might be over 300 cars where are visitors going to park where are maintenance technicians going to park let alone the driveway between two homes you know what that's going to do to their property value it's not zoned for that would you like to live with 300 cars coming by your bedroom window absolutely not I'm sure those are my objections I mean there there could be much more and I know we're Limited in time but you know that whole area back there used to be part of Green Acres when Mr Green devel developed and gave the land to the hospital they ran the infrastructure through there to bring to the hospital into town that was a great thing people didn't have a jections to that the infrastructure Underground on that street is 40 years old it went in in roughly 1970s 1980s I might stand correct corrected 70s it feeds 100 homes you're going to tie into a a seain that's going to now triple in capacity that may or may not be designed for that what's that going to do to the people who have to go to work on that street are we going to end up looking like Route 18 for years I I would hope not I mean we're talking a lot of work to put a development in that size talking a lot of disruption to Public Safety fire safety police departments school children who walk our streets moms who walk our streets no curbs no sidewalks a lot of cars and then two we have the public safety risk to the residents of that development as proposed that you're right I've seen it in the neighborhood where a tree had come down across the street on one end and a telephone poll on the other and people were stuck because they couldn't get out now you're going to have 300 more people or more I mean it's a no-brainer we we we I personally say no I'm sure a lot of the neighborhood says no and those are my objections we have pollution safety hazards uh just too much we're a small neighborhood we like our quality of life you know we all look out for each other we look out for each other's children in my opinion no thank you thank you sir board attorney swear you in so would you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to until the whole three say hope you got yes I do give us your full name SP your last Kevin Hayes h ye s 292 Green Street good Mr H okay uh first uh topic I guess a lot of them have already been addressed by everybody and partially by uh board but uh about the lot itself the property itself has there ever been an environmental study on the the area surrounding that Deep Run Creek uh I believe in that area close to that area is Deep Run Preserve a county preserve is anything ever been done to check what the impact would that be on that property i' like to have my engineering answer that question my civil go ahead good evening sir uh Josh Sewell from dynamic as I mentioned in my uh opening what we're required to do From A Land Development standpoint is we have to submit an application to the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection we submitted what was called an FHA flood Hazard area verification required to verify the stream that was there identify uh the repairing and buffer associated with it and when we submit for the verification we have to give them environmental as well as engineering report reports to clarify is that buffer going to be 0 50 150 or 300 ft the D has reviewed all the reports they've also reviewed their own uh reports what they have based on Deep Run and they've confirmed that is a 50 foot repairium buffer so we don't necessarily have to test the water they have a lot of their own information themselves so based off of our site investigation but more importantly the DS interpretation of Deep Run they verified where the repairing buffer is and why it's 50 ft we haven't had a independent analysis of the area surrounding area the impact on that you have Wetlands there correct can you can you please reiterate the D's involvement with the subject site that's completely separated from our own studies that we've done because I think this will answer this gentleman's question certainly um the permit we obtained was from the state of New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection it is not a opinion-based we had to submit documentation to the state and they have their own engineers and environment Al ists and scientists on staff they review the application they verify it and they give us back a permit to confirm it so it's not a uh the applicant's uh decision to determine it they submit paperwork and that the DP confirms it is that based on this proposal or the original proposal of 18 single family residents actually the DP doesn't review if it's a house if it's a commercial versus industrial what they review is the uh TNA aspect and other features associated with the Stream so a verification is just what is the stream what is its value and we're going to apply a buffer to it they also determine in there sir the 100-year flood plane area right I noticed on the first exhibit that you posted there there was a uh a area in the Northwest portion that's all Wetlands up there that's a flood area and that's why I notice also that's where you have your green area is all wetlands in uh uh flood area that's correct so and my opening uh existing conditions testimony we talked about how we also have a valid Loi letter of interpretation so we submitted an application to the DP also to the freshwater wetlands department and so what happens is we go on site we delineate meaning that we set Flags where we think the wetlands are and then the state of New Jersey comes out and confirms it and then in writing back to us they give it a letter of interpretation they confirm what the wetlands are in addition to that they confirm what buffer is so you're absolutely correct sir our property AB buts a stream that has a repairing buffer and a flood Hazard area we've we've provided that accurately on the plans and it also has wetlands and wetlands buffer both of those areas I'm happy to report that we are staying out of and we are restoring there's existing encroachments within those areas and they are being removed so it from a DP standpoint they see this development not the density the other things that you may be concerned with but from an environmental standpoint they see it as an improvement is the county aware of this as far as The Preserve goes uh there's this I'm sorry there was supposed to be uh uh special plants in that area on their website special plants Eagles all kinds of animals and stuff in that area there and uh based on so our property is not part of The Preserve I understand about how close is it to The Preserve could it impact that preserve so the D requires the permits there is no preserve County permit you would need to obtain for this type of I understand but I'm asking you now how close is it to The Preserve I'd have to get back to you on that sir you don't you don't know where it is border it or so a lot of questions tonight sometimes are how about how about other developments and other areas I have not studied all these other areas right that Mr basada mentioned when we came here that we're looking for feedback so I had no we typically only study the property and the surrounding like the immediate adjacent properties that touch our property so I'm not aware of how close the county preserve is what I am required to do however is analyze the existing property and I'm happy to report that we actually have permits from the state usually I'm up here and I don't yet have permits we we have permits now so I can accurately tell you where the wetlands and the flood plan are okay Mr SE well just for clarification again we have wetlands and we also have the riparian buffer correct correct both delineated areas are underneath the jurisdiction of the D is that correct correct that's correct and the D before we even became contract purchasers or had any affiliation with the site already had their some data points on the subject site correct and then it was our responsibility to complete their checklist items to submit our data and then they had then the responsibility to review that data with their own professionals and also come to the site for a site visit to confirm saying that's correct and after the review and Analysis they take of no issue for the potential de v m of the site and again that development has nothing to do with what's being proposed here tonight just in general development so long as it doesn't encroach in any of those delineated areas is that correct that's correct and the plans that we're showing do not encroach upon those environmentally sensitive areas okay are the green areas that you have on your picture there open space or whatever in the upper leftand corner that's all uh a wet area correct yes so um using the point Mr dar's pointer there's this line right here that is the letter the line of interpretation everything to the north of that is Wetlands then there's a second line where my pointer is that is approximately the 50ft transition area buffer that is not Wetlands but they put a buffer so to keep development away from the line of the wetlands but in reality you're counting that as open space it is open space sir I know but it's not usable open space really flood zone correct but it is still open space WS sir it's open space especially by the way that swamp is too but it's uh I I think he's answered the question thank you did I answer I think Mr lavalo published the report I was going to ask that if yeah and I think that's public perview uh and it should be part of the record right correct yeah and I think you can find that on the uh is that online yeah no wouldn't yeah it wouldn't be online but he a copy of what they reported or did they get a copy already they have a copy they have a copy no we have it it's also available with the application Ain it uh it was uh December 2 2024 uh was authored okay did you say something sir no I was just going to mention that pursuing to our public notice he has an opportunity to come to this municip municipality to review the record and the application where that report he could find that's all yeah it's available okay the other question I had is about traffic okay you have what 100 uh 170 people there or 74 uh condos and 76 76 tow houses and condos I didn't hear condos 14 condos I think it is no I didn't hear condos that's what is on Co units what's that COA units COA AFF condos housing units all town houses yeah I thought it came across so many houses and the rest is condos I thought well even their application stays condos yeah that's what I was reading off the application I read the application oh hold on we can't yeah we can't this is all being taken down by a sonographer Mr Hayes the law is clear it doesn't matter if it's condos or that that the type of ownership is inconsequential there are 76 units of which I think 15 are going to be 16 affordable housing units hopefully 14 14 hopefully 16 was what my whole point isn't that's not important anyway it was about the number of people moving in there the number of cars 255 parking spaces uh 174 uh projected cars or Transportation all coming out of a 12T by 12T entrance and exit ESS Ingress that's crazy that's a bottleneck there you got emergency vehicles you got uh school buses you got local people coming in and out it's it's it's crazy the original uh proposal 18 single family residents that makes sense you have one street coming in and out you could do that but here there's no way it's many people coming on that one road and Green Street it's like a one exit on uh Brook one on second and the other one goes to vanover and then Nikki's brought up where vanover comes out to marar Road into Nikki that's a dead end goes right in left and you can't get out to any other roadway this here there's no other exit like it was pointing out somebody else there's no emergency exit if something happened at the front you couldn't get in or out I mean uh and the traffic like I said the impact on Green Street you got cars parked in the street now you could barely get one car by I mean a lot of these things are brought up already but it just points that I think have to be emphasized a little bit because the traffic would just don't overall I don't see how you could say 10% you have uh uh or the the attorney I think represented that if you had two houses it would exceed the 10% okay now you're talking 74 what does that do to the 10% it blows it out of the water it's no longer 10 it's quite a bit more I mean the traffic I don't know how you can come up with these numbers and say that they wouldn't have a severe impact on the neighborhood in the area um I forget what the points were but that's bit thank you your comments have been noted somebody else over there on the left sirage you yeah fix the mic first and then raise your right hand thank you do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth to help you got I do first full name and spell your list please uh Bradford Wallace w l l a c so I have been a resident at marbor Road along with my family over there for my whole life of 21 years and uh I know the area by heart uh I'm also a new driver so I have been all around this area uh as a new driver still cautious about the area so um one thing that worries me is the amount of people all in one spot for those that don't know uh Green Street is a road that is much less traffic than marbo Road and even marbo road is not trafficked all too much uh Green Street doesn't have a a double line to knowledge uh and whenever I go down there whenever marbor road is uh is blocked in some way and have to use it because it is parallel to it uh I never have anyone else come towards me and if I did I would have to stop physically to actually uh let the other driver go by so this is insane even the 18 houses I believe is quite a stretch for on Green Street in comparison to uh Avalon Bay which has been brought up many times and uh and I've seen come in uh where the main road that goes out into Avalon Bay is actually Ferry Road which is very trafficked this is the complete opposite of that uh marbor Road and Green Street are again roads that I have been driving uh the two years that I have my license um and one thing about this flag lot essentially is that I I noticed that some other areas that are on Green Street have some other flag Lots as well but that is only to one or two houses maybe not to 76 76 is a large number of people uh I also was recently inridge high school and in the school system and within the school system I went on the buses and my sister who is not here today uh also is still enrolled in the school system and has to go on public transportation uh in that way so um on our road there are no buses that go through Green Street for the high school uh they have to all walk up to Marboro Road and go to one of two stops because the the street is uh very low traffic in comparison to uh other parts of the town and again this this is not some place where 76 units are going to easily without any impact to the traffic bring any sort of uh peace uh that is all thank you hold on oh I want to ask you a question yes you said the high school has no pickup high school students do not get picked up on Green Street yes hold on hold on hold on give the man a chance yes so throughout the four years I was at the high school I did not have any I am on the same bus as the Green Street people and there are one there are two spots I do not know the streets names uh one is after Maple Street and one is uh closer to vanover drive okay and you're recently out of school do you know uh who's picked up on green the junior high Elementary SCH student Elementary yes okay and do you know where they're picked up on that street at at inter at intersections uh so I would guess that they would be picked up in front of the their houses individually yes okay well I let's just I'm trying to listen for elementary school students they are picked up in front of their houses that's at least how it worked on my bus 10 years ago all right I thank you for your uh for your help on that and I thank you for your comments oh one final thing um one car per minute is like I I don't see that amount of activity uh on the Wawa at Maple Street and this is for a much lower traffic street so that's just something to keep in mind thank you all right thank you sir man on the aisle uh I was pointing at that gentleman yes sir and I was going to go to the lady in the back with the glasses on you'll be next well I'm sorry hold on sir we sir do you swear or firm to tell the whole truth so help you got yes I do give us your full name spell your last full name is William Mah M ah he R I'm at 353 Green Street thank you uh my property is about 100 ft from the access to those houses that exist back there right now I been there uh 50 years in May I'll be there seen a lot of different developments uh in the neighborhood over of the time uh when I moved in it was just uh older folks there a lot of the original people the old houses my house was built by a common Builder they bought the Lots they put up uh houses and spot Builders recently they're putting up big palacial houses there very nice and but they all have one thread in common they're all single family units now it's something like this to put in that kind of neighborhood the impact on that street I live at the perpendicular second place I'm retired I I'm a construction worker I work 40 years in construction so know a little bit about building anyway um I watch the kids get on a bus the bus stops and in front of my house two of them they let the kids off those are the mid grade kids I'm sorry mid School mid school kids right in front of my house they leave them with that's about 100 ft from this access there's a also Special Needs Bus that comes up and picks up some of the small kids uh and there's another bus the high school bus drops the kids off up on vanover they have to walk down to their houses so um that's the situation with the walking but over the years Spruce Run up there the or Spruce Hill a lot of those people ambulate down the street now in the summer I call it Venice Beach because we have people going up and down the street baby carriages bicycles kids put their bask B Hoops out on the street this summer when the kids were out of school it's very active there uh this type of project here is really going to have a big impact and there's five PE people there's five houses back there right now they got about six seven cars I see them coming out all day I don't know if they work from home or what well a lot of people work from home a lot of these people are going to be working from home they're not going to be involved in in this uh impact study with the traffic but they they'll be going over to Walmart and stuff like that in and out all day and I see it now it's my house is right there the guys come down to the stop sign sometimes they stop and they go down Green Street but it's um it's a very dangerous situation I can't see if uh any type of Fire Equipment getting in there right now there's a guy that brings propane gas back there to those residents he's got a tough time making a turn to swing in there I don't know what you you'd have to widen that I don't know if they have the access to buy more property or whatever but it's not going to happen and and if somebody like they said if there was ever a fire back there what are these people going to do scramble out while the fire trucks are coming in with all these 100 cars back there very dangerous situation I think my opin humble opinion um I could see them putting the 13 houses back there that wouldn't have the impact it would blend in with the neighborhood and um you know that's all I have to basically say how many how many kids Gather in front of your home to be picked up in the morning I got about five kids that wait out for the one bus there's another bus that comes from Spruce Hill they come down and drop kids off at in the afternoon here and is that common like there's certain stops that those buses make right yeah I believe so but some of them do stop in front of the Children's House on Marble road and pick them up in front of the house but mine the kids gather like the car the mothers will bring the car up and wait in the car with their children and then they'll go on a bus when the bus comes it's pretty on a pretty regular schedule thank you for the information uh you come you come with 50 years of experience so that's enlightening to the board thank you thank you thank you lady in the back cour attorney swear you in would you do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth to help you got I do please give us your full name spell your last my name is Anna Shara last name get closer to the microphone please my name is Anna shareta last name s h e r e Amon Mary e t a Anna a an N A Shermana Shera it's a long one go ahead ma'am um you live in the area I assume right yes uh we actually we just moved in three months ago green uh no on maralo okay and Green is right behind us which we've driven by a few times um and the reason that we moved in is because I used to live in Brooklyn At first the reason we moved out was because of the amount of people there wanted to have sorry um we wanted more of a family lifestyle so my family and I we moved to Staten Island I don't know if you're familiar with Sten Island but that was kind of the area if you want to if wanted to raise a family if you wanted you know to have your kids play in the street for them to be able to walk to school and with Co that has changed um so many people have moved in quality of life has changed traffic has changed stores have changed absolutely everything has changed so once I got older um I had the chance to make the decision to move and my fiance and I we decided to move to New Jersey why because of quality of life qu um this area specifically Oldbridge it's it's a family area where we actually want to start a family we bought a house that's going to be our forever home we moved here for that we uh The Marble road the actual Road it's a double-sided road which we were completely against but because of the way that there were barely any cars there are no sidewalks but actually able to walk in the street Green Street same thing there's not that many people but if you have a development 76 units at least two people per unit that's going to be an abundance number of people that are going to be driving around with cars and each family has usually typically more than one car um that's going to increase the traffic a lot right now I'm a commuter I don't drive don't have a car but I'm a commuter there's one bus stop and it's actually right behind my house um that goes to the city the only other bus stop option is on Ferry Road so if any of those people are going to be computer commuters they're going to be have to they're going to have to walk from Green Street to Marlboro all the way to Route 18 at night and sometimes even in the morning during winter right now it's dark and there are barely any lights we have to keep our flashlights on to not get hit I only found that out because some of the commuters that I was with they kept telling us to turn on the flashlights because there have been like accidents because of cars they don't see you they go in if you increase the number of traffic there there's going to be even more accidents so you're going to have more commuters and you're going to have more cars that's one thing two sorry nervous um the sectioned off areas that you were talking about sorry um affordable housing units I used to live in an apartment building where most of it was just regular units and then the bottom two layers were affordable housing it was completely different on those first two floors which was usually mostly affordable housing than the other 3 four five there was a lot more violence there were a lot more issues the issues that people had with their cars even parked outside when we had security all around which I don't know if you guys are going to have security but the amount of break-ins that were there the window smashings women were nervous of walking home because there were some instances this is not the community for this if you increase so many people into this area it's going to completely change the way of life for everyone people in that community that you're going to be building and then also the people that are living here for 30 40 years that want to pass down their homes to their kids or to their loved ones to to to keep a family here and it's not going to allow that you're going to start one development here that's going to open up the space and then other developments are going to come in and join meanwhile I'm sorry but you can take a very busy area there are so many areas where there are actual like development development development all around go there go where there are multiple developments people are okay with that they live with that they're they're happy with it there's actually space for it and you're not interrupting anyone's lives that would be the place place for you guys to build it you want to do 76 units go ahead you want to do 114 go ahead but this is not the place one street has 40 something people that someone mentioned and you want to put 76 into a tiny thing connected to one street that's it's not right thank you thank you for your comments sir do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth so he be got yes I do my name is Joe kuac I live at 325 your last name Joe KU u b u l a k I live at 325 Green Street actually and that's I live at on a flag lot so I bought the property between 321 and 323 which is where Dan and Nancy live when I first when I first moved in I had asked because I almost have a two acre lot I had asked if I could build two houses in back there and I was refused by this by the uh by the township at the time reason being is that they said I was I guess I was putting too much too much uh too many pieces of uh property into one little little space which was actually would have been one acre per I was also asked at the time to make my driveway a 30-foot street so in we're I mean I guess codes have changed and I'm not debating that but nonetheless they were also saying that by having two houses or three houses in back there I would impact the the traffic flow that much more by having six cars onto Green Street and that was 18 years ago it's not like it's that long ago in addition to that I don't think we actually even think are thinking about I'm not a conservationist however we have deer all over the place now there's plenty of wild life out back there that's that's that's a that's a fact we have deer actually running through the through our driveways and onto the street that's going to obviously impact all the wildlife wildlife in back there additionally we're almost right at well we have Woods in back of us so right I'm at the very base of the actually wherever that the street is I'm right at the end of that blue line for for us be where we're at and that that all those trees are a buffer for sound so when they took that down the trees between on right on Route 18 between marro and 18 all of a sudden you definitely could hear more noise coming off 18 right now we can still hear some when if there there's parties or something on the other side of that development we can still hear it as soon as you remove all those trees the buffer for this quiet neighborhood that we have is pretty much all going to be gone plus you're going to have 76 units in there that's all I have to say thank you thank you sir who's next hi good evening good evening do you swear or affirm to tell the whole through you hope you got I do full name is by your last Rosalie Ferraro f as in Frank e r r a r o thank you okay I'd like to know um first of all this is this is very detrimental and unsafe to our community very very safe I live right across the street I come home from work at 5:15 5:30 and I have a problem okay when I come home because it is unsafe that the people who I have the six houses back back there have their mailboxes in the street they don't shut their cars off they have no lights they just drive up and they open up their mailboxes and I can't tell whether or not they're sitting moving or if they're parked okay I want to know since this is 335 will this have its own street name is this going to have its own Street or will be 335 A1 82 83 because that is no Postal Service where are you going to put the mailx boxes are you going to have those huge mailboxes in the front so that when these people all come home now you're talking 75 people we're being honest it could be double they're coming home and they're all going to stop right there in front of my house to get their mail detrimental I'm not I'm not we're not going to have this we're not and you know what I actually consulted a zoning board attorney a zoning attorney and um I asked her a couple of questions and she said to me if we wanted she would actually represent us because our community is not we're not going to have this there are children in the morning walking parents Halloween do you know what Halloween is like on our block it's like a party it's a party and now you're asking all these other people where are these people going to go and park when they have holidays where are they going to park in Christmas you know where they're going to park at Christmas in front of my house they're going to be parking in front of my house all my neighbor houses his house my house their house they're going to take up the whole whole street where are my people going to park where are my family going to park it's not it it's it just can't happen it can't happen you have to minimize it 18 houses is still too much it's got to be too much and the fact so you're building 74 houses three bedrooms 76 76 sorry three bedrooms what the average the average I'm going on the low income 450 a house that means they're going to make $14 million on us that's right these guys are going to make $14 million and we have to sacrifice because somebody could be rich go to Mar Road between Texas Road and Pleasant Valley they are they are affordable housing living land he could have bought there he chose to buy there this property has been for sale for so long and you know what no Builder had the nerve to challenge the board and they're challenging you they're challenging you and you know what we can't let this happen we just can't these big developers cannot come in here and change our communities that's not what we're for that's not what we're about I want to know um will these houses have you didn't ask my question are they going to have their own Street well respect I didn't know if you do yeah no yeah I want to know is it going to have its own name so more than likely I would presume that it would have its own name microphone yeah so more than likely I would answer okay the reason why I say like that is because it's not up to us it's up to the municipalities professionals to make a determination on what we do and they're also going to work with the post office so I don't know we can't say what they're going to do so that's why I said more than likely from past experiences what would probably happen is that we would probably have a new road the township would probably tell us what the name of the road is going to be and we would coordinate with the tax assessor the post office and the township engineer that's it out of our hands that's that's not a definitive answer that's like a possibility because can answer that question because if you wanted to we can make it as a condition of approval that we would have to have individual mailboxes for each unit so that therefore you're concerned when it they they at the front door of their homes individual homes abely these going to be individual blocking Lots they're all going to have their own lot no no no it would be probably a homeowners association oh so now you're goingon to have a homeowners association or you going to have a clubhouse or you're going to have like who's going to take who's going to maintain all of that again because obviously there's going to be like you said your little Boulevard entryway again this is only conceptual that's it we're just talking about the town homes here and density as far as what it looks like the dimensions the size the bulk none of that is before no no no but I am answering it I am answering it for you none of that is before the board here today the next step would be for us to understand what those details are and to work with the township to get to a happy medium for all parties Okay so my understanding is that um there is a possibility that they may not name a street and it may say it's 335 Green Street I live at it's very unlikely that that would happen normally in these situations there's a name assign and they get individual street addresses okay good more often than not nail delivery goes to Cluster boxes not to individual homes that's the reason the cluster box would be right right across the street from my house and that means that every night ma' wouldn't they would be internal normally the post office controls that not us well they're currently now in the middle of the street but in something like a situation like this they'd probably have maybe four or five different cluster boxes on the properties okay so the postal service will but it's controlled by the post office okay very good very good ask her a question sure the post office micophone I'm sorry the post office the the Postal Service doesn't go into the development no they don't go down that they don't go down the E it's an easement it's it's not even a paved Road it's it's a dirt road it's gravel that's what it is and uh they do not go down nor do the school bus that's another concern I mean what guarantee do we have that the school buses will be going down there like you said you have to figure this out but if they don't that means all those people all those mothers all those kids are going to be walking all up to Green Street and now you're going to have all this traffic going back and forth it's too dangerous it's too detend it's unsafe it's unsafe and no they do not go down the uh the easement the mailboxes are all lined up on Green Street in front of my house and like I mentioned I come home every night and they're all parked there and that's only six cars imagine if we had 74 cars six 76 I keep saying I apologize so it's just yeah well you know I'm just being minimal but it's a POS it's not safe but I just wanted to know what they were going to do if they're going to name it because I'd like to know that's not decided by by them that's it thank you thank you I think we have time for one more tonight well he was going to talk to what's that okay anybody before we go to him anybody else now you already talked one shot a night come on up ma'am raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth you hope you got I do full name spell your last please Jennifer sados s i m a t oos thank you um I just want to clarify for the Adult School uh not the adult school the high school um going on the bus their bus stops are directly not on Green Street but they are on the corners where these cars would be leaving on U Maple and Marell Road and then second place and marau road so the two egresses where these cars will be coming out the students are on those corners and again there's no sidewalks there's no curbs and they're in the street and like someone said it's dark and uh it's kind of dangerous even my husband who does walk to the bus walks on the opposite side of the street because people just was around the corner so it is very dangerous and the kids are there permit me I know you said maror Road what was what was the name of the other road so it's uh no it's Brook Street and and maror Road Brook Street and Marbell road is one stop and on the other side of Green Street is second place in marbor Road um question I had about the transportation um study was there anything done for the egress to get onto Route 18 because once you come off of green Street those streets are just um stop signs but once you get onto Route 18 you only have two spots it's either Maple Street or then the end of Marbell road to get into Route 18 and I know when Miller School comes out and there's only maybe five or 10 teachers that come out they come out on marbor road to go on to Route 18 that traffic light is backed up let's ask the professional so have you gone that far past the street we didn't ma we only studied the intersections that I mentioned which was Maro and green and the intersections to directly adjacent to the site we didn't study the intersections with Route 18 yeah if you're familiar with the area going down marbar Road getting onto Route 18 it's hard to get out there and then uh people have to make a U-turn to go onto the southbound side of Route 18 it is a very tricky thing to to have even just a couple of cars there makes it um difficult I would say and then the light at uh Maple Street just one or two cars when that light turns green you maybe get three or four cars that will go at one time so if you're adding even just three or four cars at a time it's backing up that light onto marbor Road and then people are not even getting through marbar road that Maple Street there's not that much room um so I think that will be affected um the other thing I wanted to note is um on the property now the homes that are there are probably no bigger than a two-car garage there's no infrastructure that's there there's it's a gravel road that they would say so so the difference of the infrastructure of something going in even regular homes I don't think it would be supported those homes are very small um and no offense to neighbor at 3 3 uh 335 but um his lot is a a back lot and I do know when that home went in beautiful home great neighbor met him at our block party that we have but and I do respect all the professionals here and all their their um work and study and education but in reality when that home went in the neighboring homes in front their sub pumps now run constantly I also know I live at the other end of Green Street at 211 and I do know that when Avalon went in our sub pumps go constantly and our neighbor gets flooded out very often so even though the studies say it's not going to affect it we have been affected um also that tributary that little creek that runs by the debris that's there is from storms that Waterway not only goes to our Aqua fores but past that leads into the raran bay when we had Sandy that little creek you couldn't see the other side of it it was a big raging River and so when we have bigger storms the debris comes and is laid there so you're just cleaning out what storms have brought and it might temporarily help but when another big storm comes you're not having a little creek there anymore thank you thank you now we got to go back to the gentleman who first came up let me Mr llla yes what I want to decide sir is if you're going to prepare or propose an objector case that would normally come at the end of the the application not at this juncture they would present their entire application if word goes for a vote then the obor case would come on am I correct well that's the way the zoning board here handles those matters I'm not exactly sure what it is that you're going to testify about I'm just I'm unfamiliar with the objector case well you're not I I take it then you're not looking to provide I know that you're engineer an expert opinion you're just going to give us facts is that what I'm hearing yes I'm just providing facts and you're someone in the neighborhood I I live on marbar road yes I think that's that's fine sure okay U may I just point out for clarification are you also stating that you guys are accepting as 01 into evidence because I do object to that in its entirety we haven't had an opportunity to review that review that data the purpose of him advancing it is for evidential proofs to support is narrative so just like how the public has an opportunity to review data points 10 days before the hearing it should be reciprocated I don't know about that this is appears to be a first page outline as to what we're going to hear the second second page is um a print out hold off second page is a print out from Google Maps and the third page is a uh I'm sure this gentleman can testify as to what he prepared it shows how many units per acre blah blah blah well I would disagree I do not believe it's an outline per se because the outline itself includes data points in there for instance it says excessive intensity of development 24% of Zone area 7.6 acre 76 7. six homes per acre other nearby planed communities have their intensity of development close to 100% Spruce Hill 57 Oakwood Park 112 the point I'm trying to make is that we should have an opportunity to review that data and also confirm where he got that data well it's great that you started entering all of that into the evidence maybe we should maybe should have him finish it up um well again he's I agree hold on I would agree councelor I would agree with you that it probably should not be admitted into evidence uh I think when he offered those when I said I'd like to the attorney should see it and I think your point is well taken I don't want to argue the legal side here because I'm not I'm not educated to do that but I would agree with you that uh there should be time for recognition if it's going to be handled as evidence if it's merely going to be handled as his testimony tonight uh it would be probably the same as we've heard 15 other people Mr lll you can use it but we're not going to evidence I would just say for the record I object to the entry of that 01 into evidence we just agreed with you uh we did just agree with you it's not going to be enter into evidence the gentleman can hold on to it and read verb him if he wants but it's not going to be in evence so just for clarification he's speaking as an interested party is that thank you he's not an objector at this point and I don't think he's going an object run and for the record 01 has been removed from evidence okay1 01 is not in evidence please testify sir okay um there's been two prior developments right down the street uh Spruce Hill went in the 1990s um the intensity is at 57% of the zoning requirement it's also R12 and um back in 1980s Oakwood Park was buil built and that's at 112% of intensity and uh Oakwood Park is Town Homes Spruce Hill is single family homes and um both are done very Tastefully o they're both drained into marbor road which is a busy County Road they don't dump into a local Street and um there's um basically well everybody else here in the past have been saying a lot of the other items uh I don't need to go into the safety but I did observe the school bus stopping right in front of the current entrance to 335 while floating an elementary school student to um its parents so there is a lot of school bus traffic there and um you know if the if development of this size was to drain to a County Road it could be more easily handled but it doesn't the proposal that was created a couple years ago for 18 homes was more in line um probably it' be a better fit but it still would add a lot of traffic to Green Street so and the infrastructure was put in back in the 1970s and uh there's like another gentleman said there's like 48 homes on the street this is 76 so you're 150% above the current density that's there already so um the infrastructure for the utilities yeah it might be able to support it now that's a study that I'm sure your firm would do and that's what you're very good at doing but it might be uh tapping its limitations and basically um you know it's comments have been made about the devastation of the wooded site there is a lot of wildlife back there when I first moved in I used to walk my dog back through the woods and he'd be chasing the deer through there that take me a day to find the dog to get him back home but um and there's six residents six households back there that's going to be displaced for affordable housing so God knows if they're able to move back in um I do have a a board of photographs for the entrances to the areas of these developments if the board would like to see it i' be happy to show it but we have received documents that show uh probably a lot of what you're going to do and I I would prefer you don't okay uh enter them at this juncture uh you're still free down the road to present an obor's case again there's no vote going on tonight right and there's more testimony to come from the planner Okay and like uh with with the Avalon community that was since uh developed about five years ago there is an emergency entrance for the fire department to gain access from Oakwood Terrace that runs right through Oakwood Park um I was actually at that zoning Board hearing for that and um it's just uh as everyone else says it's just too intense it's this is the wrong place for this type of development just need to try and keep it to blend in with the community not to stand out like a a big um obstacle thank you thank you sir all right uh we've kind of reached almost a hard stop here anyway we've gone a little Beyond are we still televised oh okay I didn't know if we went off at 10:30 okay uh I think we need to wrap things up for the evening I'm sure that the people here and and I'm I'm I haven't cut anybody off I hope uh but there will be I'm G to have to do it now because what's that sir uh as long as you're here I'll give you quick two minutes how's that so that's like only two minutes 45 seconds all right your name Sir Michael Harding spell give us your full name spell you last Michael Harding h a r d i n g you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth so help you got yes I do go ahead sir uh you know I don't know why I'm here to be honest with you I don't live on Green Street I don't think I know anybody in this room although I think my daughter may have Babys set for someone's children about 20 years ago uh was that you see I don't I and you kind of look familiar but I don't know but I'm here because I am familiar with Green Street my daughter had friends on Green Street she's a school teacher now but as she grew up she had friends on Green Street when I heard they were building this development I said oh where are they building it and then somebody gave me the address I went down Green Street which I was familiar with and I couldn't find this street that they were talking about I told my friend you must have the wrong address he said no and he gave me the address again I went back and looked and what I thought was somebody's narrow little driveway turned out to be the road that goes into this area where they want to build I was flabbergasted why did I come here now so late I was home looking at this on TV I was so motivated and I feel so bad for these people cuz it's unfathomable that you are going to build something back there and have cars and people that is have anyone on this board been to Green Street do you go there and look at that street that I don't know how on Earth anyone here could vote to allow them to build this project there now I know Mr attorney you have a job and you're paid but I guarantee you if you lived on Green Street you'd flip in two seconds you'd be up here saying stop this project now and You' do it for free you're getting paid to be on the side I get it but I I told you two minutes I'm done but I just can't even believe this is a question of building down that road it's crazy and I'd have to question everybody on this committee if you voted to do this like why would you do that you're going to destroy these people's lives in their homes you're going to hurt their property values I have no skin in this game you're going to do what you're going to do it's not going to affect me but I do live in this town I've been here for 35 years I coach in Oldbridge basketball I coach in Oldbridge basball for 20 years a lot of people know me by face in this town probably don't know my name I coached hundreds of kids but this is crazy and you ruin the quality of life if you allow this to happen that's all I have to say than you sir has anybody else come from home late to they want to be heard that was admirable I got I got a hand it uh we reach a hardfest stop here uh counselor so I think it's time that we uh set another date uh I know you have a planner that you want to put on and perhaps other Witnesses uh I don't know I'm sure you'll probably speak with the professionals maybe you could iron some things out maybe you could adjust some things that's not our end of the business certainly that that that's yours and your professionals but I thank you all for your for your professionalism tonight and handling all the uh the comments are in the people hold on I'll get to you in a minute uh so could we get a date for this April 3rd is our next open date how's that for you councelor April 3r yes that works for us thank you all right folks and may I just confirm that ahead can I just confirm the notice be carried to April 3rd yes and you agree to wave any time period within which we have to uh give it the time period is told before we have to make a decision yes I agree to extend the approval period or decision period until the end of April yeah right she's going to give you a paper to sign anyway right yes I'll send it to you tomorrow okay uh for those that are here this matter will be rescheduled again for a continuation for April 3rd the meetings start at 7:30 I don't necessarily know that this would be the first the agenda but it will be on that agenda please check on your website go on the township website within normally about 10 days out Moren seven days correct 10 days out if you look on the Zoning Board of adjustment look at the agenda you can see what's on for that night because you're not going to receive further notice okay there's no more mailing if you're in the 200 foot Zone all right so thank you all for spending your time here tonight I I know it's been laborious for all of you uh best wishes and Sir go ahead will I have what there's always there's always public comment at every hearing sir there has to be yeah yeah not a problem not a problem thank you all for for p your patience tonight and thank you to everybody in the board the public and the board professionals yeah thank you sir for uh handling them well all right uh we have no more further matters before the board uh we're going to empty the courtroom so there won't be any General Public comments the only General Public comment I'd like to make is it's Morin's birthday so we should all wish her happy birthday to you we will not ask her how old she is however best wishes uh best wishes on many thank you very much uh counselor anything else from you no sir Mr Dar okay other than thank you thank you yes the minutes are going to be done at the next meeting next meeting next week next week it's next Thursday than so we don't have them no okay okay take it easy so maybe what I want can be adjusted prior to when they come that's what they're going to do that's why we're waiting change only motion with changes right they're going to change that right what if I wanted to add one well we got to bring that up before Council too then this Council our counselor with the next meeting yeah we can do that okay yeah yeah but it's not forgotten they just weren't put put out so there's no reason to approve them but wait you want to add something to the minutes yeah if it's if it's approved by the board but you bring it up at the next meeting bring it up absolutely thank you all right uh someone want to move for an adjournment please test all in favor any opposed thank you we stand adjourned thank you very much e e