in compliance with the open public meetings law notification of this meeting has been sent to our official newspapers and other publications circulated in the burrow of Ultipan the notice has been posted on the bulletin board at Burough
Hall please note all meetings are videotaped and posted on the website fire fire exits are located at the main entrance to the council chambers and in the rear of the council chambers let's stand and salute the
flag pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all [Music]
let's call this meeting to order may I have a roll call please mr mr larry here mr here Mr d here council Marte here councilman Boyce here mud here mr scott Mr bedin
here mr xarian mr kramer here mr professor Zoey okay start yes as everyone is aware this is a special meeting of the Altapan Planning Board there is one item on the
agenda it relates to the application of TE Holdings formerly CSH Ultan LLC 244 Ultra Pan Road for consideration of a settlement agreement uh a a application for amended site plan an application for
amended site plan approval i know the agenda talks about approval of a minor subdivision it's my understanding that the minor subdivision will be judicially approved by Judge Panavano and the planning board will have no need to take action on the subdivision component of
the request for relief uh just by way of background as many of you are aware beginning in February of 2022 the planning board undertook an application by CSH Ultan for site plan approval and variance relief to conduct a to
construct an assisted living facility on the subject property the planning board the application from February of 2022 to February of 2023 either either 11 or 12 public hearings over that time period by
resolution dated February 8th 2023 the planning board granted the site plan approval and variance relief in a 77page resolution with some 36 conditions as most of you are aware uh within the
past hour the governing body I should really back up after the plane board approval that there was an appeal taken by two citizens to the mayor and council as permitted by burough ordinance and section 17 of the municipal land the
governing body heard that appeal in the spring of 2023 and reversed the planning board's approval of the application a lawsuit was thereafter commenced by CSH Ultan against the mayor and council
two citizens and uh the Ultapan planning board uh it was filed under docket number BER-L-4189-23 after that litigation was commenced a series of ongoing settlement discussions occurred between uh council for the
governing body through the burough's carrier and council for the planning board uh through the board's carrier um recently there was a settlement agreed to conceptually and earlier this evening the governing body approved that
settlement um and now the applicant is before the board to seek an amendment of the planning board's prior approval as a result of the governing body's action tonight the board's prior approval which had been overturned by the governing
body is now in force and in effect so all you're being asked to do is to amend the approval you previously granted in February of 2023 and to approve the settlement agreement i believe council is here for the applicant as well as the board's uh
council for the litigation Natalyia and Joel do either of you want to start and Mary McDonald here also I'm sorry Mary representing the governing body that's wonderful i was just going to add I was going to say exactly what and I represented the mayor and council
throughout this litigation settlement negotiations went on for many many months the settlement agreement had over 21 different revisions back and forth the governing body was heavily involved in in all aspects and um the only
changes to the to the original planning board site approval is the 2.2 two acres that that will be given to the town which will be done through judicial decree and um the the drainage that is related to
the movement of the historic and that is where the historic house will go on that 2.2 2 acres okay it will not be moved across the street and I thought a good point was raised during the mayor and council meeting earlier the risk of a problem moving the house across the
street is substantially more in my opinion i'm no ex expert on structural integrity is is riskier in terms of damage than leaving it on basically the same lot and just moving it a few feet away excuse my back i just want to introduce
myself to the public my name is Italy Angelie i'm with the law firm Angelie and I represent the planning board i'm litigation counsel for the planning board and as most of you were here for the mayor and council meeting you heard that they approved the settlement today
we're going to be going back before the planning board and all that we're requesting is the modified site plan approval to re implement the required um changes that the mayor and council is requesting specifically again and keep saying it but I just wanted to be very
specific the only change is that the historic house is going to be moved to the side instead of across the street and that required um some changes to the drainage that is the only thing that's here before the planning board and approval of the
settlement te is not proposing any changes to the actual plan the site plan so the parking uh the facility itself is all the same as what it was approved with um Gail Price who spoke before
she's here she's going to present the application for the modified site plan she has um her engineer here who is also going to testify and after that uh it's going to be before the planning board to
approve the settlement with the modified site plan i just want to mention one thing Miss Price before you start i I want to be sure all council agree that what the governing body did earlier tonight reinstate the planning board's approval
correct the approval was it was not in force before the governing body acted tonight it had been overturned by the appeal it is now in force and in effect the only thing the board is being asked to do is to amend that approval and to approve the settlement agreement two
items correct correct correct correct correct okay okay miss Price you're up gail Price from the firm of Price Me Shman and Dminino um I was here also for the mayor and council meeting and Ed uh Ed Purcell Price Me Showman and Dino as
well just to help out and I understand public notice was given and we have proof of publication and the I just wanted to note that Bob for the record that we gave I beat you to it publication on March 13th and property
owners notice as required by law on March 13th and 14th couple of other little housekeeping items um we were in touch with council for Lake View as the board will remember during
our multiple um hearings um at at before you council appeared um toward the end of those hearings on behalf of Lake View and um our client reached um an agreement with Lake View concerning um
certain items that would be taken care of and we had an actual executed agreement um so I was in touch and Mr purcell was in touch with Mr steinhagen from Bey Padavano to confirm there's no
um modification to that agreement with Lake View at all so that agreement with Lake View will remain in place 100% and Lake View was never a party to the litigation anyway no Lake View was never party but I want to get that on the record so that there's no issue or
concern on behalf of any property owner within Lake View that everything that we agreed to um below remains in effect um I also want to state as your council will um and as you all know but um land
use approvals run with the land um so um while there was a bunch of conversation about um who's involved 244 Ultipan Holdings is the property owner um of the subject property um and because the
appeal was taken to the governing body um after this board's approval we never got to a point where a developers agreement would be executed and bonds would be posted um and the
very guarantees that um we heard some concerns about tonight from the resident we never got that far because the appeal was taken to the governing body so all of those protections that we've heard concerns about tonight are still to come
and um your engineer is going to want those to um you know take place and your board attorney is going to want to see those you know to take place um and they're certainly not going to be omitted um so those concerns are going
to be adequately um ensured and there are a number of concerns raised at the mayor and council meeting about the moving of the house that's covered on page 71 condition 12 of the resolution that the applicants responsible for cost of moving the house
and the construction of a new foundation at the designated site and shall provide a bond to ensure the integrity of the structure at its new location and we're yes we're in full agreement with that so no Is the Excuse me is the is the uh agreement with Lake View become part of
the application or is that just a side agreement no that's agreement for property okay nothing to do with the board okay i just wanted everybody I just wanted to make make sure if we were supposed to have that as part of ours no it's just for advice and for the public's knowledge
um okay um so the notice we covered the site plan so I only have one witness tonight and it's um our civil engineer who many of you remember from probably five or six hearings um um 11 i counted
11 um Mr schnull from Dynamic Engineering he is simply going to testify um to authenticate the site plan that has been on file for more than the 10day period required by the municipal land
use law and that site plan drawing um mimics the approval granted by this board in all respects with the exception of um the shift of the historic home
um uh to one side of the property our property um and the shift of the basin um that was already um if you remember towards the end of our um application
uh Mr scrabble asked if we could consider putting uh another basin in the front of the property and that's what we did but because we're moving the house now um it was it's required that we shift basin um a little bit um to avoid
the wetlands that's all that um Dan's going to testify to but I'll have him authenticate that plan for the record okay you want to So unless you have any questions for me I'll call him up i'm going to also swear in Mr scrabble as the burrow engineer gentlemen would you
raise your right hands please i have a question for her busy woman i'm sorry i have a question for Miss Gail oh for Miss Price okay yeah Miss Price sorry uh question about the ownership who is TE
Holding versus CHS are there the same no csh was the applicant te Holdings is um part of the owner of the property is it the corporation LLC llc it's it's
on you should have a copy of um certain documents or maybe not but it's a it's an LLC te holdings um LLC and they became the plaintiff in the litigation too yes thank you and gentlemen would you raise your right hands please you
swear or affirm that the testimonial or given this procedure helped i do let the record reflect the burough engineer scrabbles and warrant sir can I have your full name absolutely uh Daniel Chanal is S E H N K L for the record I
am the principal of Mic engineering from 245 Main Street and you were here for a number of meetings and qualified in the field of civil engineering i recommend you be deemed so qualified without the need for any additional testimony dan you have a a plan up on the easel um
and I have a much smaller version before me you want to mark it A1 please does that plan uh bear a date of Will you tell me what it bears absolutely this uh plan is uh entitled
site plan exhibit and it is uh surprisingly updated on my birthday March 5th 2021 okay site plan exhibit is the title pipeline exhibit and you heard uh just a few minutes ago
my representation that uh the approval that had been issued by this board uh is [Music] mirrored in all respects uh relative to construct the proposed construction
of the assist assisted living facility together with all improvements regarding uh that use um for instance parking landscaping light lighting
um drainage every component that's regulated by the zoning code for the burrow of Ultan was I off base when I made that statement no ma'am that is correct okay and that is um encompassed
and de demonstrated on your plan yes okay um does your plan also depict the um shifting of the historic home currently located
um in the area closer to the church property um does it um show a shift in location of the home uh to the area closer to the wetlands that is correct this plan depicts the stone portion of
the uh existing historic dwelling to be relocated to a position approximately 120 ft to the southwest of its current location and the shifting of that um in no way interferes with or impedes
the wetlands area is that correct that is correct it stays out of the physical wetland as well as the associated 50oot transition area the previous LOI that was issued and marked as an exhibit below uh is it um a fact that that LOI
will remain in effect for this modified site plan um yes dated March 5th 25 correct so no further um permits need to be secured relative to the wetlands no
yeah okay uh with regard to my reference to the shifting of the detention basin which we were asked to consider and in fact located in the front portion of the property it's my understanding that
there's no um change in the uh water quality or water quantity um requested by Mr scrabble and as presented in prior testimony is that
correct that is correct it's simply a relocation of the same type of basin but it is still collecting uh the water from the same location of the site as the previously approved site and um there are new storm water
management regulations in effect in New Jersey correct that's correct um and those regulations allow for a previously approved um site plan to um be basically
uh reapproved um if in fact one of seven or or seven qualifications are met as a dimminimous modification correct that is correct and if the water quality and water quantity are not modified in this case
have you reviewed those seven um items we have and we are in agreement that uh they would be considered a minimous change and would qualify as simply a dimminimous change um to the I'm sorry what did you say would qualify as what a diminous minimous change
to make the new regulations inapplicable that's correct and are there any other changes that um are required on the site in order to affectuate the building of the assisted living and the transfer of um the uh
historic home and the construction of that basin no those are the only changes proposed to the original site and uh you heard my um opening as well um to the mayor and council meeting that
the subdivision itself would be handled by judicial decree that's correct so your plan does not show the subdivision and we're not seeking any subdivision approval tonight that is correct we cannot show subision okay and one last
question Dan your plan depicts um a note that confirms that the home um can be constructed within a certain area I mean relocated within a certain area correct correct our plan does show a colorized
section of the site which essentially delineates an area um that would be suitable to relocate that home that would be at the burough's destination okay with the intent that the entire area all of the environmentally
constrained um area including the wetlands would be um eventually conveyed to the burrow that's correct i think I have a question pertaining to the minor subdivision i assume I think I
know the answer to the question but I would want to get on the record the house will not be moved until such time as a court approves judicial minor subdivision correct yes okay the um h how we uh voiced it with Judge Padavano
is that um at the time permits are received for the assisted living facility the um subdivision will be perfected and judge will enter an order okay and I assume the order will be recorded okay
because otherwise we get involved in having two structures on one lot correct don't want to have a problem we don't want to do that right correct okay and we talked about the core construction yeah and and we further agreed that construction would not start on our site
until it was moved oh okay okay do we open up uh more questions first questions for Tom okay let's start with Tom no questions i would make one brief comment that I also reviewed the dimminimous exceptions in the new
stormwater regs and agree that this application satisfies those conditions that's all one more thing juan do you have any questions uh yeah just one question the um relocation it's going to be bonded how
much is that going to be bonded for uh I don't know if we have any number yet um it's going to it's going to be specked out um well we're going to want our borrow engineer or his designate
right to uh have right to review that and determine what the amount is okay not if not you Tom someone that you in your field or in the field of structural construction engineering right we typically work with the burough engineer
and they're not going to do it unilaterally put it that way questions [Music] question I have no questions I have one um I know that I believe that
in prior testimony about a year and a half ago um any overflow from the stormwater management area behind the building would um follow the natural path of that storm water prior to development and I
think that might be part of the regulations and I would refer to I would defer to Tom Scribble about that but is during the mayor and council meeting we heard uh the public very concerned about you know what that
might do to the Lake View properties ability to uh hold that water should it go over but it's my understanding that you're not allowed as per the regulations to increase the storm water off of your site from pre-development uh
levels is is that true or do we anticipate more runoff in that direction at any time the rates that that is correct the rates will not be increased they'll be less they'll be less and that's also why Mr scrabble asked us
to consider the addition of the front basin so that we didn't have all the redirected towards the front rather than the rear correct which is we modified the site plan um to reflect that additional basin and um so all of the conditions of approval of which there
were in the 30s still stand plus a few others uh correct there were uh there was some tightening of some language that was requested um all right and we'll have a a resolution if the board approves the settlement and and the
amended application tonight we will have a resolution addressing all of those issues i don't have to read that one do I well you do but it's not going to be 77 pages if I could no but then for instance one of the issues was also that we agreed during construction if we were
to find any historic pieces of relevance that we would immediately turn it over to the burrow right and we had brought that up and okay I'm dealing with that in Fort Lee right now um and and we're coordinating that and where do you stand with the burrow's
landscape architect working with the owner's landscape architect to come to a settlement right as to the to hear from your burrow's landscape i think that's covered in a settlement agreement it is covered um in the settlement agreement but we
are looking forward to hearing from the burough's landscape architects so we can put I will I'll reach out okay that would be very appreciated okay yes very much thank you Mr keel oh yeah just two
things i heard there was testimony from the engineer that the location of the historic house the new location is going to be outside the wetland transition area but I can't tell from the scale on that map whether it meets the setback
requirements for front yard sideyard can you speak to that yes yeah apparently where we show it in our plan it does meet the front yard set back and side yard set back as well okay great and only because it just came up in Bill's discussion
um I know during the um application process there was a lot of talk about a phase one cultural assessment being done on the property before construction started that somehow did not get included in the resolution i just did
hear you say though that any artifacts that are found will be donated to the town correct however is there any way we can get that phase one cultural assessment performed by the applicant before the construction
starts i'm not sure what would be involved with it um and it certainly would be something that I'd um take back to um our client you know to discuss i'm not saying no um by any means but I'd just
like to You're considering it this is So thank you thank you for considering absolutely talk to them about it um and I can represent that we agreed to already anything that we find um that we would immediately turn it over to the burrow relate to cultural artifacts and
things like that yes okay that's all I had mr vine yes uh two questions the first one to do with the historic house um I heard in the other uh hearing that you're hiring a
professional engineering company to do the moving are there engineering company or there no no it has to be it has to be an expert um in the field of handling the movement of historic homes they will do the historic structures I think one
of the council members mentioned that uh they have experience with like 500 houses that might have been you can you tell us you know what companies that you're you're talking about um I I don't have that information here this evening with
we have like I can speak to that a little bit um I did speak to the firm that approached us to move the homeate i don't recall it off the top of my head but I had a about a 20 to 30 minute conversation with him uh the owner of the firm they assured me they've moved
he said 500 homes i don't have proof of all 500 but it sounded pretty impressive they were working in Japan at the time and he was willing to come out and see the the property prior to um you know just to talk about the feasibility of
moving it and uh he was very um confident that they've moved homes of this type and nature previously do they do the moving and the engineering part of it because this there's two separate things you got to engineer the move you
have to generate plans has to be signed signed and sealed by professional engineer and then you have the moving company sometimes this two could be same entity if they have in-house engineers do you know top of your head if that's the case i can tell you when I spoke to
him he did not represent himself as an engineer he represented himself as a contractor who's moved 500 of these types of homes i don't know the means and methods at this time but um I would also be interested in that and of sure that an engineer would be designing the foundation and uh our engineer would
have to look over that engineer's shoulder can we get the information after the hearing you'll have to have that um information um the burrow will need that information because it would be part of the bonding um requirements it would be a condition
it would be part of the insurance and developers agreement um and developers agreement so that would be a as far as I it would be a standard operating procedure to put that in um the development so we would have some amount of say as to who the entity is or at
least be able to make a determination of their qualifications i think I think that the burrow would be able to vet them for so we come to an agreement that it's a it's a it's a reputable you going to defer it to Mr scrabble or his design in that area is that already in the
language for moving the home whereas we have some bookends onto the qualifications of the entity selected to move the building yeah a reputable a a reputable contractor with experience in the relocation of historic structures and adequate insurance to ensure that
move and the structural integrity of the historical house move to its new location yeah I remember that okay thank you uh my next question is to do with the front basin the horseshoe
type have you done any I'm I'm sure you've done the analysis what's the likelihood that we inuated that horseshoe basin and it doesn't flow and go to the uh to the historic
house and flood it c can you elaborate you know how this works for like lay people I'm an engineer I know but I I need like the public know too your first defense is that the
gabian right that the area can you elaborate a little bit you know of course so uh the storm water would flow um downhill uh the home itself is going to be located at a higher elevation than the outflow of
that stormwater elevation so there is a helmet control structure um which will simply pull back the storm water which is that uh that that dark shaded square along your that that wall that you mentioned y um and that would directly convey the storm water um to the
conveyance network across uh as previously proposed for that basin so it's handling it the same way um not ended to uh flow towards towards that the way the grading will work will make sure it flow away from the home so any overflow is going to go to the It will
go towards the right place yeah and then goes eventually goes to the storm system the town has correct which goes back to the wetland there as a as a previous and then there's also an overflow spillway as a backup should the main outlet structure
fail for some reason there's a separate overflow spillway that's directing the water directly toward the wetlands not anywhere near the historic home okay Mr kramer I have no questions
i just have one question um can you confirm that the D sword water rules prohibited you from using underground systems and that the requirements are going with these non u structural types
of basins and above ground type facilities in the the the rules that we're complying with here uh require green infrastructure uh techniques to match storm water uh this is an above ground green infrastructure technique
the only way we can really go below ground uh is uh pavement systems uh which wouldn't be applicable in this type of situation or if we're essentially collecting roof area and putting into small dry wells um or underground system that would be too
small for for this type of system that would be considered a green destruction practice um so what we have proposed here is the exact same style we previously proposed bio retention which means uh it will have plantings so essentially the landscaped area uh which
would uh hold back that water to wet sight tolerance plants uh which also helps water as well thank you okay I think that concludes the uh board question board questions we'd like to
open up the uh for the public to have any um questions for the uh engineer only questions not statements for the board or for anybody else on the uh the panel here uh and we will be opening uh
uh an opportunity to speak after this for questions other than for this particular uh witness questions of the engineer only engineer only questions now uh do I see any uh I think this man in the back
okay yes please come up question yes no you have to come up jane Cho 16 Lake View Drive Alipan New Jersey i just heard the engineer state that the water basin is going to collect the water and it's going to the
municipality or the town no storm water drainage system is what he just said so I'm like no he just said that he said the front reservoir what you
know the thing is going to go to the town storm water drainage system it's actually county system that then immediately drains back into the pond so it's going to come into the town and then go right back county system there's
a Is there any way that we could kind of I I can't visualize what is going on there there's a count county storm water drainage system correct so it's going to come into the county road and then the water is going to go back
correct into your storm water drainage system that's going to evidently at the end go feed into Lake View Drive no no it goes into the county drainage network in the road in front of the site and then that immediately discharges back into the wetlands area on the site so it
matches the same graph the county system has always discharged to the pond that's pre-existing condition the county pipes have always flowed that way into the pond that's one of the sources of water for the pond all we're
saying is this new system will connect to that for a very short period of time and then flow to the punch okay thank you i just needed clarification on that
yes please come forward hi yes um Sher Bono hi um I I just based on this I'm I'm just want to be clear as well so with the water basin system you're saying that
overflow first off how how high is the retaining wall going to be from the wetlands to the project i'm just could my question is how much water is going to flow into the vernal pool because the vertal pool whole area has flooded the
backyards before with Sandy and a couple of other storms so if you're putting a water basin system in front there and then you're also cutting down all the trees and leveling and I know you're putting a retaining wall i mean the
vernal pool is not like an infinity pool there's a finite area and then it starts overflowing onto people's property as I mentioned there's there's no change to the previous design we're just relocating the bas for the same amount that was going as the previous proposal
is so there won't be extra runoff water from the basin going I thought you sorry I didn't know if I misunderstood if it was I thought you said water is going to go into the vertal pool as it is designed but now it's moving the basin to a different location
okay it just there's a lot of trees there that absorb all the water if they're gone and it's a pervous space the water's got to go somewhere and we already do have floods when there's big storms and it's just accounting i know we had a drought last year but we're accounting we never know what's going to
happen with the weather the way it's been do I see anyone else from the public that would like to ask questions for the engineer gentleman in the back yes just not sure is the landscaping plan connected no you have to come forward
sir and you have the microphone in the middle where you asked for it to fall stoop down like a name and address we don't have rich town like old Japan we don't even have a proper microphone
um does the landscaping plan fall within the engineering plan i don't think so that's why I'm no landscape architect is that uh landscaping architect and that plan available to view with the public was part of the prior application and
nothing's changed it's it's been on file i mean it's on file as part of the approved plan set thank Okay uh do I see anyone else in the public that wishes to ask questions for the engineer not seeing any okay now we
can open it to the public open it to the public for comments for comments the only rule is we would like the comments kept to three minutes and we you need to be sworn comments or statements that are testimony that the board will review and
consider in his decision sir come forward sir would you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give in this pristine shall be true to yourself yes if you could give us your full name spell your last name and your address yes my name is H gand G L F A N D 3305
Rose Street in Fairmont and as I said earlier I'm from the Bergen County Historical Society and one question I have uh which is something of a mystery to me is I've only heard about the stonehouse portion of the home being moved and I'm wondering why the central
what is now the central wing is not also being moved the historic American building survey uh dictates that the middle section what is now the middle section was actually a kitchen that was built in 1762 so it has a stone foundation for this frame so I'm
wondering why that is also not being removed so that is just a question I just wanted to raise thanks excuse me can you expand on who designated that yes the historic American voting survey okay library of Congress can you get back the microphone
library of Congress yes okay thank you thanks yes sir three minutes three minutes i swear or affirm that the testimony will give this person shove it to subd sure name and address brian Mandy 1043 Westwood Avenue um I just have a just a
couple of questions about the um the drainage uh above ground drainage um are are there going to be any fences around that to stop children from perhaps running through there and endangering themselves or if they're ice skating on
it and the reason I bring it up is St pas has this issue when there's a lot of water there if you ever looked at it kids went in and now they're at after school so I just wanted to know if there's been any discussions about fencing around that and what type of
fencing you'd you'd like to have the other thing that um with this building is has anybody familiar with Mount Moore Cemetery in Palisad Center one of my biggest fears is there's a cemetery in
Palisad Center Mall that is eclipsed by um by Target and Dick Sporting Goods and it's a it's a historical cemetery i'm just curious as to what type of and this is more a question not for the engineer but in terms of landscaping around that
uh so it's one issue is the fence like how you going to keep people out of that because to me that's a liability for somebody maybe a liability for the the developers or not but I also just want to know is what kind of buffers I mean we've talked about buffers for the Lake View properties and some other
properties what about the folks that are west of this development i mean is there going to be a burm are there going to be trees put up has that been incorporated in any of the site plans because you're talking about a three-story building here and I know uh Councilman Baki I
probably said it wrong was talking about the enclave which I think some people call the enslave from what I understand his property butts right up against that right and I'm very concerned not only for myself but for fellow people in Alapan so I'm asking that question and I
guess the last question is I know there's a lot of runoff and I know we do our best and of the script You've done a great job with this in this town but building materials inherently are are toxic and my question is is who is going to be monitoring the construction of
this to make sure that these vernal pools and these these uh wetlands are protected from potential contamination okay and that goes for asphalt shingles it goes for a number of other things uh I just had a uh my my
former neighbor had a 1,700 foot house it was knocked down and it put 9,000 foot house in its place so there was a lot of stuff that ended up in my yard and then finally the last question is are you going to I appreciate it if you
didn't share notes with uh Mr mory you're running out of time okay i got 20 seconds you got 20 seconds okay i'm just letting him know all right can I have the 20 seconds back since we done this sure are you going to widen Old Spin Ro and if so who's going to monitor the
white okay so the county I guess the county is going to do that tom do you have any idea about the fencing that might be placed around this uh yeah there's some in the in the the rear basement is much larger obviously um there's protection along the parking
area for that there's existing fencing in the rear along Lake View it's not completely surrounded from my understanding um there is significant landscaping surrounding it as a buffer uh the landscaping plan is separate from the site plan you're looking at tonight okay so we're not talking about the
landscaping plan we're just talking about the sidewalk right right so a lot of that you'd really have to look at that plan in order to have your questions answered um with regard to the widening yes there is a a widening in front of the project that will be
implemented by Bergen County because Oakpan Road is a county road um what did I miss is there a timeline for that like does is there just in general is there a timeline when you're riding the roads like Old Tra there will be a developers agreement that'll be put into place
before any of this gets started the county has to review the application and grant approval too okay again there's not Yeah they're they they are significantly down the road with the county okay no pun intended but they don't have a final approval yet so that still needs to take place then they post bonds with the county in addition to the
bonds they have to post with the burrow there's a a process that hasn't really been started yet okay well thank you very much i'm sorry if I uh went over tom the uh the other question one more was the uh building materials and the potential for contamination that he was
mentioning in a construction site yeah I think that's usually for any construction site any contractor any responsible builder uh takes responsibility for retaining and maintaining yeah but you don't the integrity of their their work but you don't usually have construction on
wetlands okay well I mean yeah I'm honestly not an expert in it i I know the building department would be the one that would try to enforce that and I'm sure there are some provisions in the building code what they are exactly i honestly don't so the environmental committee would be aware of all this
kind of stuff and if there were any issues out Yeah and honestly during construction the burrow has probably the most authority over the builder that's where we have our most control okay so if if the wetlands gets a mess it's
going to be cleaned up mr allessie Tom when they when they built Lake View they protected the wetlands okay i I a silt fence is is that what it's called yeah but when you have you have high winds and things happen i get it i get it i just wanted to ask a question because I
I don't think we've ever you know kind of asked construction questions because we're always trying to just fight the whole project if the burrow doesn't know what happened and there's something in there and we get a phone call that's easy to take care of okay all right thank you very much for everybody for your time and your answers
okay anyone else sir Patrick [Music] so would you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony will give in this proceeding shall we salvag yep and will you give us your
full name spell your last name and your address uh Patrick Ambbouti Jr g- A M B U TI16 Autumn Lane in Old Japan thank you um thank you so I do have like serious concerns about the contamination that
can happen from a construction of such a huge building on a wetland property um and I you know I I appreciate what Tom said but once the wetland gets contaminated it's contaminated it's not
really something that you just remove a piece of asbestous that's already leeched into that wetland so what kind of asurances I guess is something the town should be very serious about when this is being built where are they staging
everything there's no place to stage anything i mean I know these guys are experts they'll figure it out but I mean there's really no place to stage anything on the property when you're doing that massive scale of construction on when you don't have a lot of space to the sides of it so that that's a big
concern for me um something that I wish people would take really seriously and the other thing I wish people would take really seriously is the cultural review we're talking about the Stone House as being of historical significance but that whole property is is of historical
um has historical precedence because people lived there since the 1750s and they were all over that property dead people were buried there that's what people did back then they buried their family on the property so any artifacts
are going to be found i appreciate what Miss Price said about the they'll turn over anything but I don't know what you're going to find from a digger that's you know 3 ft wide and however big it is digging into that property without a cultural review an environment
a phase one environmental review to see what kind of things are there that's something I believe the planning board should require of the developer to do and should have been part of the original 36 uh things that were outside of the agreement and I'm not quite sure why
that never got in there but as a resident of this town for 34 years I am very concerned about those things and I'd like to see the property before it's totally destroyed taken with care and make sure that we're making sure that everything that is there can be
collected and saved for you know the future thank you okay yes sir do you swear or affirmed that the testimonial given this proceeding show of it to yourself i do and your name and
address 110 Cotch Lane thank you quick question does the planning board have influence over what the design of the building looks like in the context of what kind of building is it going to be is it going to be a slab a concrete it's
all been already part of the original approval it's already been uh part of the original agreement or the original plan so you've already approved it okay thank you yes no you Yep
you swear or affirm that the testimonial given is pristine i do you could give us your full name your last name and your address please angelene Sheridan 31 Edith Street thank you i first I want to thank the planning board members for being here here i know it's not an easy decision and it's not
easy to be up here and I particularly want to thank Councilman Boyce he's been a real champion here for us um I just had a few questions yes oh thank you you deserve a a vacation for all the work that you've done we'll
take you up on that you deserve a pay increase that's what you get pay increase on the sounds tab oh okay um so first my question is is is this um site plan the one that's available at Burough Hall yes I believe so yes okay
no it's not the original this is the one that's So is this the one is this plan that's right here the one that's available in town hall yes okay yes that that was just my question so there's apparently disagreement and well
wait there's no disagreement because our office delivered the plans so I know that they've been here the required 10 days per statute so there's no disagreement from that we delivered them there's other testimony from the public
to um we just go to the little room contest that non-disagreement yeah so um we know that remediation is very expensive when there's a huge impact um you know further down the road
in terms of pollution and flooding so I was wondering if the developer would be open to a remediation fund in the event that something like that happens down the road with additional flooding which I know is a huge concern for us with the demolition of over 300 trees and then
also moving that house i don't know I'm not an engineer i don't know how water flows but in this area we have seen a lot of flooding and I think we are going to see more flooding so I'm I'm asking if you would be open for a re
remediation fund for any pollution and flooding impacts in the future if if there's flooding in the area now it's not due to this property because this property is basically undeveloped it's not Well we don't know that right we don't Well the property is not really
developed right now it's it's got this the small historic home it's 5 1/2 acres roughly i understand that but there but these 11 public hearings and most of the concerns comes from the flooding so that's my one question second question
the third question is um the tree replanting fund i know there is one because that's part of the original agreement um where is that money going and I would recommend or suggest or
highly beg that it be um diverted to the uh environmental commission so that we would be the environmental commission would be in charge of actually replanting trees where they think it's appropriate in town that's not an issue for the planning board that fund is the
mayor and council's jurisdiction well I I don't know how those things work so that was my third question and then um again at the first planning planning board meeting that I attended I was at I was told that there would be a historic
preservationist as part of their testimony and so now I'm hearing that all of this house movement it's going to be part of the developers agreement is that correct are you asking me that yes i guess you
have the answers the the reason why we're here tonight is to settle a lawsuit we're not here to retestify for an application so so no no we're not here to put on a case again thank you so no
that's it thank you thank you do I see anyone else that wishes to make comments on this application should be a motion having one more one more okay are you previously sworn maybe not you asked questions do you swear or
affirm that the testimonial given this percent of it yourself you got Yes right thank you janeo 16 Lake View Drive uh my concern is these were all done traffic studies everything was done all done before the enclave was inhabitated now we have a
lot of families in there and I for one see a lot of children walking on the sidewalk on that side of the sidewalk going to and fro to the school and I even have trouble coming out of Lake U trying to make a left turn now into old Tapan road there's a just tremendous
amount of traffic I I wouldn't want anything happen toing to our children with cars going in and out of there I know they were discussing at some time that they were going to minimize or set their schedules with people so that it doesn't conflict with the children's
school going out and things like that i'm not quite sure if that was ever uh discussed again i'm asking Miss Price i I don't want any children hurt resolution it was in the 79page
resolution that the board adopted that um staffing would be alternated um so that it would not impede or negatively impact any of the school drop off or pickup and construction times would also
be worked around school drop off and pickup and I would think that um the board for the enclave heard all traffic testimony and took into consideration traffic modifications that were necessary by
that project um as well condition five at pages 69 and 70 i am just reiterating I wouldn't want a child hurt no absolutely I agree you know you wanted to know about the condition it's condition five pages 69 and 70 but this application also does not have a lot of
traffic in and out of it it's a senior facility that most of the time these seniors don't drive the the traffic in and out is usually just for the staff coming in and out or food deliveries maintenance people such but the hundred
or so inhabitants of the place will not be and and their guests of course so it's not going to be a highly trafficked area mr allessie do you have something to hand in concerning the traffic i
understand what you're saying about the people crossing now I used to walk to school back in the day uh before half a bistate was built before the Korean church was built uh before your whole development was built so the
ongoing improvements and building up of Ulta Pan is inevitable i could sit here and state your whole development shouldn't have been built because it impeded me walking to school and the safety of people not liking to stop at that stop sign when they make the right
turn to go down road so it depends on how far back you go now I know there's a member on this planner board who's a little bit older than me can probably tell you when there was less buildings but I don't think the amount of time uh people
had where the safety Sher's house was the last house that I would pass it was Urban's house back then um before all that traffic so I I think that's kind of a new point because you can have somebody moving in now wow they could say "Well I've been there you know four
years." And that was before the Enclave and I mean I remember when the Enclave was dirt from when they built mention High State Plaza and we used to ride our dirt bikes over the hills so change is inevitable and in this case um I know
the mayor council made a a great decision in what they do i I sat outside listening to it so and I appreciate everybody coming in for the testimonies but everything's been hashed rehashed rehashed we have representatives here
from the state i could say state right attorney attorney attorney okay i work with so our role too to reh like the planning board as Price said to rehash everything again we're not here for that we're just here for questions i don't
want to rehash my three minutes is up i'm sorry your three minutes is up i I still have my time i think I just want to make sure that I think the the planning boards mentioned certain things and I would like to reiterate so that we
do get final points in um when they're getting the movers uh whether you had mentioned an engineer and a mover do we get okay on that like is it just they do it and then we just get issued an answer when they're doing it or do you have some say in in how that gets done you
know things like that um I I lost my train of thought i I had another qu I had another answer uh you know there's stuff that's happening there that um we had requested for them to bring in specialists or let's say some other people do we have a say in
any any of those things or do they just give us notice and that's it well in answer to your question when um Mr medium brought it up no sorry um it was brought up that either Tom or somebody from his company representative his
company is going to work with Miss Price and I forget what page this gentleman said it was on they get reputable moving company councilman Boyce the great councilman Boyce uh said he was with the talking with the company from they did were in Japan or and something so that's
the answer they're not just going to move it and say we're done we're going to be working with them we've covered that well there's going to be that vendor or somebody else you know Councilman Boyce can or you know speak with some other people to try and see if we can get somebody reputable that that
we entrust this historic house in right so I just want to make sure that we have a choice that it's not just them saying "Hey we're going to use these people." their choice is going to be vetted by the proper people to make sure it's a reputable company okay and do we have an
approximation as to how much the bond will be when they're moving the historic house well the bond in my opinion is basically insuring the loss and the loss would be if the home were destroyed so whatever its value is it's going to
be bonded for that plus whatever percentage we're allowed uh by state statute so who's going to put a price on this historic house where some of us might think it Yeah we do that so it's already been
assessed it that can be vetted pretty simply i will not come up with that number necessarily but there are people within the bureau that will be able to come up with that number right so what would we pay for that to have like an appraisal or something like that the answer to the applicant yeah we're not
paying for anything right and I don't even know that it has to go that far it's a pretty simple Yeah value to come up with and to to answer the the traffic questions before I forget my train of thought sorry um and this is for the record the applicants traffic study
included full buildout of the Enclave and Central Avenue oh so that was taken into account factored in right okay um when you say the bond is it the complete destruction if there's a crack in a wall or anything like that is there
any kind of you know um tearing of the bond and how it's given out to our town i mean it's just Well the bond sets a ceiling the bond sets a maximum amount so if you damage it less than that right it's covered who sets the price on that that's what
we just said it'll be basically the value of a total loss of the home well whatever that is going to be i don't know the number or I would give it to you i I don't have a number right but it's not also like our town is looking to take a loss on something if there's some damage and we can collect a
performance bond on it we will so it's not like we're going to be working against our own taxpayers well I had stated a number before about 3 to 5 million is it going to be something it's not going to be anywhere near that no not going to happen
thank you [Music] yes I Hi I'm Sher Fono 256 Ultan Road Old Tapan New Jersey swear our final testimonial give us a percent you got Yes sir thank you again um I didn't plan
to be on front in front of you again but um you brought something up Michael which was a really good point and I did had I brought this up at the mayor and council meeting uh it was regarding the traffic um as we all know Enclaves brought into the community approximately
800 to a,000 people um which is created and now the retail construction that never existed before over there is going to be bringing in a lot more traffic i mean basically what was called it can become a drive by town because road of
course is a cut through from you know from Rockland County to go to the Garden State you know the malls everything so it's a I'm just seeing because I live there and and you mentioned my house specifically the increase in the number of children this people walking with
babies dog walking and just activity especially on my side of the street when they since they put there was no sidewalk there so when Tom so kindly helped with the sidewalk situation when they put the sidewalk in I don't know why people prefer this sidewalk on this
side of the street more than the other side of the street but it's it shocks me even after co because people got used to being outside so the there's the kids riding bicycles we addressed at a mayor and council meeting the issue of kids on on the electric bicycles going by and it
it is a concern because especially when school you can talk to the crossing guards the kids walk by and they have their phones in their hand they're not necess or they're talking to each other there's more and more children and people out using the sidewalks which is
what the intention was which is why there was a fund to sidewalk the town and so now because of the location again the big complaint about this was the location it was just the wrong project at that location and even with the road getting wider one thing that was brought
up at a last meeting is cars tend to drive faster and that was something I brought up at a mayor and council meeting just to see if we could lower the speed limit but it's a county road so we can't so traffic is a really big deal i can I can't get out of my driveway forget about certain times of
day people drop off their kids they use St pius as their pickup and and drop off one child's already gotten hurt um it's just a This is more during construction than once the facility is built i mean right now the place isn't used at all i
don't know why it wasn't condemned it's just been sitting there empty for how many years and so it's quiet so kids walking by this and that they play and everything and so it's just it's something I had asked um because like the tree expert
that spoke their expert said there was like 160 trees and then town hired their own tree expert to find out there's almost 300 trees i had asked if they could go back and do a new traffic survey again we have more people in town more cars and that doesn't even account
for the retail stores that are going to be opening up so I hope you take that into consideration and my last comment is I'd like to request that the environmental committee and chairman be involved more actively involved in the project due to the nature this is a
environment our environmentally sensitive land area it's home to a lot of the animals you don't want them in your backyards they're all a 244 and now they're going to have no place to go as well so thank you very much please consider have the EC which is an
important part of our town well the traffic has has uh evolved um I don't know when you moved in i don't want to know but that used to be an active gas station across the street and gas pumps were right there on
the road and people got filled up no we're getting off topic here kind of agreeing with you how the traffic evolves and it it it's going to happen traffic was that was extensively during the first application and I want to remind everybody I don't I
think most of you know this off-site traffic conditions cannot be the basis for the board's denial of an application dunkin Donuts versus North Brunswick and Lionol's versus CEDA okay so just take that off issue off the table shouldn't even be
discussed all right um I don't think I see anyone else anybody else want to raise their hand i think we're done i think um so I think it's now time for the board to Well I think that uh Bill wants to make a couple of comments and don't think he's going to do that you
know I think I think he Can I speak to Mrs uh so I have some very minor but Well I'm concerned that the mayor and council's approved the settlement agreement we're deviating from it i'm not coming to a mayor and council
meeting mayor the people and there'sn't a councilman and uh No um they're kind of minor i mean I think it would go a long way in quelling the public's concern maybe I could just put it on the record but not suggest it's a condition of
approval maybe just something on the record for instance like could there be a crossing guard during construction provided by the applicant where the vehicles enter into the site is
that reasonable to ask because I do see a lot of kids walk on the sidewalk okay that should be really addressed with the mayor and council so is that a lot crossing guards at least that's been my experience planning board does not get involved in the crossing guard business
we do a lot but we don't do crest and go does our attorney for the mayor and council have a statement on what they might be willing to i have not addressed that issue with the mayor i certainly can't speak on their behalf right okay and then I guess the only other one was and
I know Tom is very sensitive to this but and I wanted to reassure the public that prior to construction there would be a preconstruction meeting with Tom our engineer and the contractors and he would strongly dictate the erosion and sediment control plan as it surrounds
the Vernal pool and maybe even beef up that those plans beyond what is usually taken into consideration i'm sure the engineer maybe it's a double row of silk fence with hay bales you know nothing dramatic but best measures is that and
just so I think one thing we're missing in in that conversation is the state sorry the state of New Jersey dictated a 50oot buffer around the wetlands that buffer its entire purpose is to protect the wetlands right so beyond that buffer
is where the limit of disturbance is yes like so okay And the state of New Jersey has been studying freshwater wetlands for before I've been on the planet so I trust that they know what they're talking about and and I don't claim to be an expert definitely not more than
they are so a 50ft buffer was determined adequate how is that i accept that it's adequate do I understand that during extreme weather events you could get debris into the wetlands of course you can but that's going to be a maintenance issue it's going to be an enforcement issue and that's always going to be
there there's nothing we can do about it other than address it that's it can you just bring up because because I think they made a lot of concessions okay we're done i I think I think that
that's we have we've debated this everybody's had a chance to comment 11 meetings a lot of uh back and forth council hired you hired counsel they represented you they're not here today
they made agreements and side effect the mayor council wouldn't have thought to agree because they didn't have they should have had council here i just would retouch uh Bill on that phase one environmental i think that that's a good idea but uh again we cannot force the uh
the applicant to do it more than likely it's been done but I think that that would be a very good thing to make gail Miss Pierce I'm sorry Gail price price price sorry price is right price is right that would go a long way in maybe
helping our uh our public u feel a little more than likely Mr chairman it's been done no one hopefully no commercial developer is going to acquire property without doing phase one ESA and maybe a phase two where we are now if you find
dead bodies on the property then it's going to be you know have to stop construction and they have to come in and we found live bodies okay uh okay not seeing anyone else I'd like to close the meeting to the public
now it's up to the board you want to do a summation or is it is it necessary no I don't think it's necessary good um Okay no I just I what we're asking the board to do is since the I'm agreement 100%
approval of the settlement agreement and uh a mandatory site plan approval right that's it all right i'm not missing anything that's it that's it okay that's what's before the board in terms of the action he wish to take whether to
approve the settlement agreement and grant uh a mandatory site plan approval i will state and I rarely get too involved in voicing an opinion procon application i think this is a much improved application compared to
what we had before i think it's particularly critical that the house will only be moved on that side of the street and not across the street a shorter distance there will be appropriate bonding for the house i think the drainage constitutes an
improvement as well and will not only be beneficial to the site but this is surrounding neighborhood and I know there's been a lot of discussion about uh why the planning board approved this the first goround i went back and read the last transcript before I came over
here this evening and both the burough planner and I made statements to the board that if this application had not been approved for the assisted living facility we could have 100 or more units on that site again it's 5.46 acres 20
units per acre is common okay that was in January or February 2020 23 rather in March of 2024 public laws of 2024 chapter 2 were passed by the legislature
and signed by the governor that law required the Department of Community Affairs to assign every municipality in the state an affordable housing obligation ultapan's affordable housing obligation for the fourth round which just started
a few months ago is 233 affordable units now that's just not 233 units take that number multiply times five because typically it's 80% market 20% affordable you're looking at more than a,000 units and I think it was really appropriate
what was said at the mayor and council meeting not to be getting political but people need to start thinking about who they vote for because we all know who created this burden and oppression on municipalities and it wasn't me and it wasn't the mayor and council and I don't
think it was anybody up here on the board it was done by track councilman Marte's comments were really spot-on during the mayor and council session i think council managi had a couple of comments in that same area as well so I want everyone to know this affordable
housing i was in a 2 and a half hour affordable mediation this afternoon for one of the towns I represent it's horrible okay Old Tapan has to deal with it this wasn't Old Tapan I was representing today with another town but every town has to deal with it it's
cruel oppressive and burdensome to suburban towns and you have people in office in Trenton that hate suburban towns like Ultiman don't take my word for it do your research and think about who to vote for in the next election okay that's all I'm going to say on that
i think it's important that this get approved because I mean the approval is in effect now you all you're doing is amending it but I think the first round of approval was important because we avoided a potential substantial residential
development on that site with the consequent cost of education not to mention traffic and other things just for the record as well as your litigation attorney I want to say that I'm also in agreement with Bob that it is our opinion that you guys should
accept the settlement agreement for purposes that we spoke to about before but it is also my recommendation to accept it as your litigation attorney again none of this is pleasant and it's not this board's fault or the mayor and council's fault people outside of Ulta
Pan and these towns are killing us and we have to try to do the best we can and try to preserve the character of the community that we that we care about that's all I'm going to say you know one of the scariest parts of this is that they're not done with us we have
hundreds more of units that we have to build 233 is our number so they're going to be coming back developers are going to be coming in and finding other properties and proposing developments that we don't like and you guys are going to be back in here arguing and
saying we don't like it and it's changing the consistency and the uh fabric of our town well that's what Bob is mentioning that as long as this affordable housing law is in effect we are forced to actually accept some of
these I I'm not against affordable housing none of us But but a little town like Old Tapan to have a number of 233 for round four which results in potentially a thousand or more units insanity and these people just don't care they don't
care and you also have under the statute that I referred to the uh PL 2024 chapter 2 62 towns they call qualified urban aid municipalities they have a zero affordable obligation their obligation have to be made up by the old
tapans in the upper saddle rivers in the Montville and other towns I represent it's called redistribution of wealth or socialism or Marxism i'll stop that okay okay all right we just did tell me where I was wrong why I'm wrong i don't want to
talk about Okay fine all right so move on let's move on so we want to make a motion to approve approve this settlement agreement and amend it by plan for I make the motion second we have a roll call vote nine members
can vote mr ke appreciating everything Bob just said and our attorney I'm I'm still going to stick with my original uh vote for this application and it'll be a no mr allessie I vote to approve mr jones yes councilman Morte yes
Catherine Boyce yes Miss Ludis yes Mr bin Loftton yes Mr kramer yes Mr jesus
like Mr keel Keel I voted against this application originally i'm very very uh concerned about some of the issues that were brought in by our public i
also follow as a professional uh the uh advice of council i hate to be bullied into something like this and uh I am a person of
principal so I have to also vote no in spite of council's recommendation okay is there anything else for the board to act on this evening have a motion to adjurnn do we
have a uh do we have a like a a total or has it been approved seven seven yes two so it's been approved yes okay what i was allowed to vote yes okay so was Councilman Mart's yeah we're not dealing with a D variance wanted to
triple check make a motion to close the meeting motion yeah nice that's the way it's done these days [Music] i need glasses