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Tuft, tough, tough. >> In compliance with the open public meetings law, notification of this meeting has been sent to our official newspapers and other publications circulated in the burrow of Altapan and notice has been posted on the Bolton board at Burrow Hall. Please note all meetings are videotaped and posted on

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the website. Fire exits are located at the main entrance to the council chambers and in the rear of the council chambers. Please stand to salute the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stand

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indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Call here. >> Say here. >> Mr. Key >> here. >> Mr. here.

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>> Captain Marte Boy >> here. >> Mr. >> Here I don't know. >> Mr. >> Here >> All righty. Um, can we make a motion to open the meeting to the public for

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opportun for [laughter] items that are not on the agenda? We had a motion. >> I make a motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? I. >> Anybody have anything to discuss regarding anything that's not on the agenda for tonight? Seeing none. >> Motion to close. >> Second. >> All in favor?

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>> I agree. [clears throat] >> What you going to date? >> Mr. Keel's not here, so no environmental commission report. Um, council leazison report. >> Thank you. I'll be brief tonight. The uh >> there's a nickname. >> There's a nickname. So, as you can see, so [laughter] uh we had a design chet this past week

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with the mayor. um Burgess Associates, myself and our attorney to begin to think about the design standards for um the five-state plaza. I think it was a great uh meeting that we had. We started to identify things that we feel are

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important to keeping the essence of old Japan old. Um so that that we made progress on that and more work will be forthcoming. Um, I'd like to say that uh check your town calendars because there are lots of

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cool things happening at the park this summer. A lot of movies, a lot of, you know, first releases, lot of really interesting things. If you have questions, speak to Donna Costello, Councilwoman Donna Costello. She's doing a great job over there. And lastly, um, Patrick Amboodi was appointed to a

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5-year term, quite a nice long term, to the Shade Tree Committee. Um, our first order of business will be to start the planting around the coveted uh maintenance building on on Central and >> that is good to hear.

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>> Yeah. Central and and Chestnut. >> Is uh is that going to be a one-year problem a project or is it going to be multi-year? >> The trees arrived today. >> Oh, nice. All of them. >> Yes. They were all floated of the truck. Yes. >> That's great news. >> Great news.

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>> Patrick's doing a fantastic job. There you go. We'll give him credit for that. >> Yeah, that concludes my report. >> Thanks. Uh, everybody has a copy of the construction official report, financial secretary report, Bob. >> Yeah. Hi. The budget is $2,5750.

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And believe it or not, there's no escrow. So that's the total as well. >> We can make a motion. >> Motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? It's approved. >> We're going to speak further about um

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escrow later in the meeting. Minutes. So, we do know we have minutes and we should be getting them sent to us. It's going to be for several months. So, everybody spend some time on it for before the next meeting. All right. New business. We have a few things to talk about. Um first is there's a new

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legislation that's been brought to our attention. Um, and it's important for the whole board to understand the uh ramifications of it. Ed's going to walk us through it. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good evening, members of the board, members of the public. Um, what I have for you tonight

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are actually three separate bills that are being considered by the Senate and they're all various uh levels of importance relative to our land use plan and our zoning. very important to consider them because many of them have rather questionable impacts to our

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communities um from the standpoint of various land use controls that we have in place. The first one I'll talk about is something called the religious conversions uh to inclusionary housing bill. Uh that's a bill that is being considered by the Senate that it's come

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out of committee in order for the Senate to consider. But what it permits, and I'm really just going to paraphrase quickly, is that any existing or zoned re religious uh facility uh is able to be converted to a multifamily

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residential development. >> Wow. >> At various prescribed densities and >> 40 to 90 >> 40 to 90 exactly running >> 40 to 90 units per minally 40 >> correct minimally 40 if it's a 20% set aside. I think it's uh 50 or I actually

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have it 60 units to the acre if it's uh 35% set aside and 80 units to the acre to 50% set aside at various >> other side of Manhattan. What do we >> various other height limit uh exemptions as well? So, you're allowed to go one to two to three stories above your maximum

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height requirements and recognize that in your existing current land use code, we permit churches and houses of worship as a conditional use in all zones. >> So, it's a nuance that we will have to take up as we watch this bill develop if

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it passes in its current form. But, there's a lot of concern about this bill. >> I'm sure you're going to have many questions. >> Yeah. So that first one, >> if it got voted out of committee, >> Mhm. >> it's going through. >> Yeah, that's the >> machine wants this bill, it's going to pass.

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>> And it also permits relaxation of the parking standards relative to it. In other words, if it's within a half mile of a train station or a/4 mile of a regularly scheduled bus route service with intervals of 30 minutes or less, it's required to have 0.5 parking spaces

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per unit. So, one for every two units will have one parking space. >> I don't think we have that. We have a bus stop, but it's not once every half hour. >> So, it's not once any I was going to ask that question. I didn't know for for certain what that case was. >> I couldn't imagine where people would park though if you had a 90 unit

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apartment building. >> Yeah, it's it's absurd. I think from my standpoint, professional planning standpoint and and knowing what we know about the communities in Bergen County, this is a a substantial impact uh to our zone plans. So that's going to influence how we in fact consider churches and

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houses of worship, but it also talks about non-for-profit facilities, not just churches and houses of worship. So if it's a nonforprofit that's been in existence for at least 3 years, that also qualifies. So it's another consideration for us to take a look at.

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I wanted to touch on that, but I won't go into the into the nitty-gritty of the bill, but that's some of the salient facts to be aware of. There is a resolution that the League of Municipalities has put together that formulates sort of a basis that you may want to consider and recommending to the

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governing body to be adopted uh to recommend certain um concerns and objections to those bills. >> When are they up for vote? >> I don't know that answer. I don't >> There's two other bills too, right? >> There's two other bills. I was going to continue. Exactly. Uh next bill is 2680

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which is the accessory dwelling units bill. Obviously we have an accessory dwelling unit permission in certain components and with certain aspects but this would permit accessory dwelling units in any single family or two family zone >> a separate building right a separate house

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>> you can have it as a separate accessory structure or you can have it in the principal structure as we currently permit for a family member but in this instance that's that's going to be permitted as a separate unit. Uh it must be occupied by the owner. Um it >> they're saying you don't you can't lend

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it. which of course >> you could rent it. No, you could rent it. I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Is that you can rent it and it's permitted in those zones and it can be as close as 5 ft to a common property line? Ed, >> are those um affordable housing

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accessory dwelling units where it goes into the lottery or can you choose who you can rent it to? That's another good question because it says here in one of the statements that a municipality housing element fair share plan shall include a plan to promote the creation of ADUs that would be offered at an

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affordable rents in lower and moderate income households. But it doesn't identify if these have to be income restricted or not. And I would say that that would be seems to go in the face of what the affordable housing is trying to do. But regardless, it didn't have a

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mandatory requirement in that regard by what we've seen so far. So always stay tuned. We never know what's going to change as things go through discussions. So that's the ADU bill. The next one is another concern that as I understand it, it did not make it out of committee.

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It's called the stranded assets bill. And correct me if I'm wrong, Bob, if you know else-wise, uh, is that it identifies that if a a office park of minimally 50,000 square ft or a retail center of min minimally 15,000 square

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ft, I'm sorry, did I say 15 first? I'm sorry, 50,000 ft² for office park. 15,000 ft for a retail center. Uh, that center can be uh redeveloped as a mixeduse development containing residential. it just cannot contain

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industrial uses uh can contain any other use that's uh non-residential. Um but yet it also talks about certain it doesn't actually give a maximum density in that requirement but it does allow certain other exemptions relative to

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that redevelopment of that property. There's also qualifying factors that are rather difficult to uh evaluate because it says that within 45 days of an application being submitted, it has to be deemed complete. Uh but yet it talks

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about if that center has been experiencing economic downturn for 3 years prior to the applicant, they must demonstrate demonstrate a loss by revenue in such that expenses for premises exceed revenues by 30%. The second criteria would be property

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owners may maintain a continuous good faith effort to redress re redress vacancy by actively marketing buildings during an 18-month period prior to application. And then the also another criteria would be a minimum vacancy rate

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of 25% for a minimum of 18 months um to the application for development. >> Any one of those >> any one of those three. And so all of a sudden you have 45 days to review that information and that just does not reasonable. Yeah. Because then it was a financial consultant would be involved

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in that review for completeness as to whether or not that zoning uh applies. >> So again, another concerning regulation that's being considered >> many of our community suburbs. >> So what can we all do? >> Well, the the principal sponsor of all

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three is Senator Singleton. >> That is great. He was also the sponsor of that great fair housing act amendment that we had to suffer through through most of 2024 and 2025. I was at a meeting last week with Senator Shifty and she expect expressed

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real concern that these these bills will pass. Yeah. I I would offer too that um for whatever value you give to the League of Municipalities, um they have a a web uh page that I can send a link to the board if you're interested where you can contact your senator or your

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representative for the community and so and to voice your concern about this bill as well as there's a a sample resolution that you can use as a model to start to work from if you're interested. I hate to be negative, but the league was zero help dealing with the affordable housing abortion that we

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had to deal with. >> It's uh it's very sad. >> Front really does hate us. That's what it comes down to. >> Ed, may may I ask a question about the first item that you reviewed with the houses of worship?

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>> So, we have three in our town. Um, one is actually a home that is used as well. Well, I don't know now if that's reclassified as a house of worship. It's the the one uh where the rabbi and his family live.

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>> That makes four. >> Is it listed? >> Is that what's the fourth one? It's St. Pas. >> St. Pas. >> Oh, yeah. Prince of Peace. I forgot. Prince of Peace >> Church. And then >> so if someone is living there, you're saying has it converted? Uh is it still listed as a nonforprofit?

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>> I I >> I would imagine. Oh, it's I remember they >> I mean it's probably tax exempt. >> It is taxemp that may apply and that's some of the gray area. What's a nonforprofit? >> But that's right in the middle of residential homes. It's

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>> it's a home it's a home within the community. It's not really set up as a standard house of worship with parking lots and so on. >> Understood. But it could be converted in that mindset.

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>> Wow. Um, that's crazy. Yeah, if you could send that link to us. >> Absolutely. >> As well as the link will give you copies of the actual bills if you're interested in reading some of the detail. >> Has a sample resolution, too. >> A sample resolution as well. I'll send that out tonight.

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>> Oh, that's wonderful news. Anybody else have any other >> Sorry about the great news. >> Just real quickly, would we integrate work in our master plan uh reboot to address some of these concerns or is that not >> or can we I guess is the question, right? Is that is that something or or state legislature would

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>> it's actually something that I would recommend we consider at least for the religious institution aspect cuz right now when I looked at your zoning I was not surprised because in many communities um religious institutions are thought of within the neighborhoods of residential homes because of the act

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low level of activity that typically occurs >> and religious institutions houses of worship are common in residential districts. >> Sure. They always encourage people to walk you know to walk to services. So uh in that regard it doesn't pay any attention to how that was originally

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planned nor the impacts of why that was. >> Could we resone it have the existing facilities be not informing use on that? >> That that is one of the concepts. Yes, you could do so and permit it only in certain areas let's say according right now you have a minimum 3acre

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requirement. Um so but >> I think that bill this bill would override that though. >> That's what I worry about regardless of what >> that's what I worry about. Yeah. it's the use >> and that's not the fully based either as far as the criteria is concerned. So um >> regardless of what we change in our

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master plan, it will still >> I I don't I mean >> state will >> the legislation I think will trump it. >> What I'm after it may but what I'm after is that you can have certain recommendations in a master plan to make these land use changes so that you're

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not deemed inconsistent with that. And it also would be you always worry about a classification change in zones where you have to notify the entire zone of the classification change. When you have a REAX and you record a recommendation in a REX, it allows you to deal with it

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much quicker. >> So it's food for thought as a tool. >> So all right. So but if I can also segue to the master plan. >> Yeah, I was I was going to ask >> um John is expected to release a draft today or tomorrow.

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um you will have that done and what he's recommending is that the board consider either meeting to review the details of that uh informally or to recommend that we have a meeting set for excuse me I

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was looking for the date >> would be uh July 8th >> July 8th yeah >> for a public hearing and so the notice would be required by June 26th we would have to notify uh adjacent municipalities by notice as well as copies to the planning advocacy and

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county planning board which is something we can assist with. >> Okay. >> So, let's let's plan to do that assuming that that John gets it out. So, I say by the end of this week >> let's everybody spend some time reviewing that and let's see if we can get it on the uh >> the docket for the is the purpose to

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vote for it or do we want to provide some commentary because there might be some edits? Yeah, at that meeting if you're providing edits then you would need to have another public meeting um because yeah, you would have to renotice because it wouldn't be the final copy. So, what I offer is that you could have

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a uh a committee review of the draft if you're interested or we can have the July 8th be the review session and a subsequent meeting be the actual public hearing. >> Why don't we do why don't we do a review session on July 8th? Especially with summer, it's going to be hard to get time

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>> for the committee. And I'd rather I'd have a we have a really good board. I think that the board can provide a lot of commentary, >> especially with this new developing issues, the three issues that are developed. >> Yeah. Why don't we do that >> in order to get appropriate language in the document. >> Okay. Very good. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. Um All right. So, that was first new business. The second new business is um we really do need to adjust our application and our escrow fee. So, let's have a conversation about that. We were

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chatting about this a little earlier. Bill, you want to kick it off? Well, it seems that when people are putting forth uh new developments or uh variances, the amount that we're collecting as a town to put into escrow for

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for engineering is 1,500, for planning is 2,000, for legal is 1,500. And that just isn't enough by today's standards to keep the professionals afloat. >> Probably in a timely manner. So we will need to our approach with our land use

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secretary will be to scour the last 3 years of applications figure out how much we collected in escrow per professional and then come up with a reasonable amount based on that information. So, I think we need to have a little chitchat and then confer with

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our our professionals to make sure that the new amount is accurate um and in keeping with adjacent towns standards. So, we would like to do that maybe before the July 8th meeting for sure so we can bring that back to the planning board as a whole or maybe even address

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it on a committee level prior. >> And if anybody has the time to support Jen in this exercise, right now she's down a support person. So if anybody thinks that they might provide some value in in that exercise, it would be appreciated. >> You also want the application fees

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looked at as well. >> Well, when an application comes in, you can let me know and I I I'll calculate the escrow and the application fee and until they uh provide the correct amount, they don't get to a hearing. Okay? >> It's it's very easy to do. I do it like

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it takes me at most a half an hour to go through depending on how many variances they need and so on. And I know we won't have any a basketball game that night to worry about. So >> you have major developments that are >> longer and very expensive. That's

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>> you're going to have to isolate those into maybe a separate category. I mean the reports of the engineering plan planner take a long time. >> The resolutions take a long time. You have 93 pan road which is a denial. It's 24 pages long. And it's important to

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have a resolution for a denial as well as for an approval. So, but there's basically no escro >> and and that happens at the end the resolution. >> Yeah. I mean, because the engineer and the planner do it early on in the process and they they're entitled to do that and that's good. Okay. Because you don't really need the lawyer to put

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input at the beginning of the process. >> His or her work comes at the end with the resolution and the developers. Have you or Ed seen what Bob's suggesting, which is maybe a a larger fee for larger applications? >> I have some samples that I was thinking about. >> That would be great if you could if you

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can get that to us. >> We have that be all part of whatever we review next month. >> Also, if it's depleted by a certain amount before they're seen, should we be asking them for more >> prior to that hearing? >> Prior to the hearing? >> Yeah. If I run it by me, I'll I'll give

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you the amount on each one. I just did on one tonight. So, if everybody we could get all the professionals together, myself and maybe Jennifer and maybe Charles if he's available uh when he's at home one day. >> Um maybe we could have a little

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committee subcommittee meeting and get through this quickly so that I mean we'll have to introduce a new fech schedule at the town council level >> an ordinance >> as an ordinance and that'll take a meeting or two. So, you know, we don't want to we don't want to waste any time

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on that. In the meantime, I think we can track it by uh uh what's initially deposited and how much has been drawn on. And if it's not replenished, they don't get to a hearing. >> Yeah. There's got to be a floor before another hearing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

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>> Is there anything else we need to change regarding the process or >> I guess we'll find out in that committee meeting. >> Okay. Fair Oh, is that well probably the application language but also >> the danger also I mean we last meeting we had somebody come in and it was very

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easy and it was done in one meeting. So the danger is also you don't want to make it too high for simple variances and simple projects. >> That's fair. >> That'll scare the community away from even coming. >> We'll have to come up with some criteria for that.

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>> May have to be by variance type. Well, right now in your code, >> it's a certain amount. If there's one variance, if there's a second variance, there's another amount. >> You know, the applicant needs to be realistic, too, and maybe not seek a dozen variances. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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>> You know, >> they do get their escrow back at the end, but you got subdivisions, major subdivisions. >> Maybe we can put in a interest bearing uh savings account. [laughter] >> All right. Anything else on that matter?

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Any questions? All right. So, we're going to work on that. Again, anybody who has some time on their hands and wants to support Jen, that'd be great. >> I'll I'll circulate an email to get that meeting going. >> Great. Uh, a third item that's not on the agenda, but I just kind of thought of is next month we're likely going to

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have a closed session regarding um a a project that we approved recently and it's looking to make some changes. So, you know, if we can get some solid attendance at the next meeting, that'll be important. >> And it's can be closed because it's still subject to the court's jurisdiction. >> Correct.

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>> Okay. >> All right. Old business. Quick question for Ed. Um, we talked about some zoning and code changes at the last meeting. I know there's been a lot going on right now, especially with uh the bystate churet, but on your end, what what's your thoughts on on timing for that?

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Yeah, I've made recommendations actually for John to include some of the recommendations in the master plan doc. Oh, good. >> So, you'll see those. Uh, are you interested in actually language for the for the regulations themselves or just Okay, I'll work on that then. That would

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be my next uh >> let me just write that down. All right. Um, any other old business? Does anybody have anything? >> Do we have an update on bystate? It's been brought up a few times already tonight. >> Uh, right now it's this this sharet that

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we did that was that was uh that Ed talked about uh or that Bill talked about before that that we had um this past Monday actually. And um we're going to get back some of that information to a potential developer. So, it's um it

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could be actually exciting and could actually provide a great solution to the burrow. >> Still under discussion for a sale or has it been sold? >> It's pending but nothing's >> nothing's final >> from what I understand.

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>> I think a lot has to do with what gets approved. So, >> anything else on old business? Any communications, Jen? All right, resolutions. We have two resolutions from last month. Uh 93 Olds

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Pan Road and 96 Herring. 93 Ulta Pan Road was a uh major subdivision application with variances. It was denied at last month's meeting after four public hearings. And we have

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the resolution which memorializes the decision. >> All right. Do a roll call. >> We need a motion. >> Need a motion. >> Second, Mr. Lesie. >> All in favor? >> No. Just do a roll call on this. >> Okay.

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>> Mr. Mario. >> Yes. >> I recuse myself. Interesting. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr. D. >> Yes. >> Captain Boyce.

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>> R. Excuse myself. I was not here. I cannot vote. >> Mr. Sava. Yes, >> Mr. Bedine. >> I still remain recused. [clears throat] >> Mr. Zarian. >> Yes, >> Mr. Kramer. >> Yes, >> Mr. Pazel.

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>> I would. All right. So, that that resolution is approved. That denies the U application. All right. Next is 96 Herring. This is an approval of a minor subdivision application. three lots with

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variances and it was approved at the May meeting. Can we get a motion? >> Motion second. >> Roll call. >> Mr. Madd, >> I cannot vote on that. I voted against it. >> Mr. Mr. Mamari,

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>> yes. >> Mr. Ali, >> yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr. Scava, >> yes. >> Mr. Deine, >> I can't vote. I voted against >> Mr. Zarian. >> Yes.

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>> Mr. Kramer. >> Yes. >> All right. On a roll. Next up, we have an application. Uh 139 Cedar Drive. I believe it's an F application. >> It is. So, uh the class one and the class three members have to leave their

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day. Mr. Voice and Mr. Marte is not here. So, class. >> You get to go ahead and get your jacket off >> with your Knicks jersey. >> We'll get live updates. >> Yeah, please do that. Yeah, you >> got to watch game show now.

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>> Hang around. >> Don't you want to see how this works out? This is an important application. >> Couple minutes. I'll stick it around for a few minutes. [laughter] >> You have to hang around for old business. >> All right, Jen. The mot the notice is in order and the board has yours.

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Hi. >> Sign up. Stop signing. >> Yes. >> I definitely was going to forget this thing. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> All righty.

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Mr. Chairman, Alicant on behalf of the applicant. Um we're here on an application at 139 Cedar for approval of an increase um variance for the F permissible is 22 and we're looking to

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have 23.1%. We're adding an uh accessory structure in the rear. Um I have Mr. Lentell, our engineer, as well as our architect here tonight. >> Okay, great. So we'll have to >> swear in Mr. Lelman. He's your first witness. >> Yes.

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>> Uh I think I should swear in our planner to gentlemen. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony or given this shall be truth? >> I do. Dr. reflect that the board planner is sworn as is Mr. Wantel. He can be deemed qualified as a PE and surveyor.

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He's been here before. Okay. Uh, so everybody has a plan. Just make sure it's the right version. It's should be revived last May 6, 2026. >> PM 2. >> Yes.

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>> Going to mark that A1. >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. >> If I could ask a question. Uh, regarding completeness, uh, is it common place for the board to review issues of waiverss from the completeness? The one item they asked for a waiver on was location of structures within 200 ft of the

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surrounding properties. Um, they did give the list obviously, but yet the because the application looks like it's complying to the setbacks. I felt that that's not a unnecessary waiver, let's say. >> Yeah, I agree. Providing it would not serve any useful purpose in the board

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view what I was offering. So if the board board concurs, I just wanted to offer that to >> I appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> If you could just describe the site. >> Sure. >> So it's a 139 drive. It's lot 51 2604.

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It's about one lot west of this is single family 25 zone. the conforming lot sizewise, width, depth. The existing condition actually

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conforms 100% at that time. Um, we actually did the site plan for it and everything's conformed. Uh the existing characteristics is our uh single family

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home, a driveway, a front walk and a rear walk, a patio, covered porch, a shed, and a sports court. Um with a I believe that there's also a a party.

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So what's being proposed is a rectang golf pavilion on portions of sports court. So sports court going to be still be able to use the sports square for about half of uh the existing uh area.

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There's no excavation for this project. Uh there's no additional impervious area because the pavilion is going to be sitting on top of the uh exist existing sports court which is impervious. It also has drainage uh for the sport

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court. So there's also no additional drainage. Um basically we're just taking a uh an existing hard surface area and putting uh a structure. Uh so I said everything conforms today

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and the variance that we're looking for is uh an F. Right now the variance is 21.8%. Uh we'd like to get it up to 23.1% with 22%

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is the maximum. Uh as you can see on the site plan it's it's in the rear yard. It's uh uh there's also a lot of fences and a lot of trees and and harbor bodies surrounding

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not only this area but some of the adjoining properties have a lot of screen also. Uh can't really see it from the street. Um, and as far as distances, I know we got a waiver for every structure within 200

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ft, but just to get the information ourselves, uh, I did measure distances to the adjoining homes. Uh, the closest one is actually on the west side, uh, lot 4, the house, and it's in the front

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part of the lot is, uh, 30 ft from the property. The house in the rear is 104 ft. Uh on the left side, there's two lots there. Uh the one closest the one that's actually on Cedar Drive, the house is 70 ft away from the property

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line. And the other one in lot 7 is 109. So it's there's fair amount of space around this property for a structure that's uh be pretty difficult to see. Anyway, there's a lot of landscaping

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around this property >> and that covers all three sides and the rear is currently landscaping. >> Yes. >> Trees and bushes. >> Yep. >> Um, >> is any soil being brought into the site at all? >> No. No. >> Any trees being removed?

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>> No. No trees being removed. >> That it. >> All right. We're going to uh run around the board with with questions. One first question is Mr. Scrabble our town engineer is not here but he did send comments. Did you get an opportunity to review them? >> I did.

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>> Can you mark that as Mr. Chairman one? >> Let's do that. And why don't you review each of those and if you can respond to them appreciate it. >> Yes. >> Okay. So the site plan showed a 4ft roof

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overhang and it's actually 4 and 1/2 ft. So the architecture the architectural plans have the 4 and 1/2 ft >> which controls the architect >> the architect control >> right. So this this is approved and this site plan has to be submitted for permit

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>> the site plan would be amended. >> Yes. >> Does the overhang affect uh floor area? >> No. >> Okay. I know in some jurisdictions it does. Okay. >> And it also u you know is still within the confines of the sport court.

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Uh F breakdown. Have you tried to talk about that? But we we did check um the original architect plan for this house and everything seems to be correct. I mean our numbers. So I I know you said that you're Is this

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considered an accessory dwelling unit for in in definition of our um code or is it considered a a shed an accessory? What like I'm not sure how the judge what is a golf pavilion? >> It would be more of an accessory

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structure my opinion but we can obviously look at the definition of accessory >> dwelling unit. It's not really a dwelling unit with plumbing though. That's that was one of my questions I was going to ask if there's any plumbing or anything relative to the >> Yeah. So, we have we have requirements

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for that and size requirements for accessory structures. Um it's in our it's in our code. I know that cuz I wrote it. >> Um so, um how do you is this comply with that? Did you look at that? >> So, that would be the accessory

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recreational structure which is permitted in that zone. Okay. But there are size requirements for it and and anything over that goes towards the F and then there's height requirements. >> It's 255-54. >> Yeah. >> You can take a look at

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>> I don't have that information. I mean >> All right. So, we may ask you to have to take a look at that and and get back to us on that. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. So, his fourth comment was a soil

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uh no soil disturbance. Um that's actually a comment in the >> application test by confirming approvals for all other improvements on site. There are no other improvements on site.

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>> And then number three, I think you skipped over that one. >> Um yes. So, Golf Pavilion is going over existing imperous surface. So, no additional storm water management is required. >> That's why you probably didn't come tonight. You only had that one real

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comment. So, um Okay. >> All right. We'll start down that end. Ed. >> Yes, Mr. Chairman. Um I was just trying to refer to that accessory requirement whether or not that was applicable. Um I believe you

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addressed most of our questions. Um I think you had indicated in your direct testimony that the golf putting green that's existing. >> Yes. >> Yeah, that's existing. Thank you. I just wanted to confirm that. Um, as far as the dimensional requirements, I would imagine you're deferring to your architect with regard to why the

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structure is the size it is. >> Yes, >> the proposed structure. Okay. Uh, it goes towards the need for the F requirements. That's why. Um, the next question I had was regarding the actual structure itself. Any additional lighting being proposed?

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>> Uh, there is um two down down light down lights coming down. The architect will talk about that. He's gonna >> Okay. In the You're in the overhang, right? >> Yeah. In the overhang, there's two lights that are shown down. >> Thank you. So, it seems like my questions are for the architect, but

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thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> And and Ed, were you able to determine whether or not it um complies with the >> I'll get back to you. I was just looking it up. >> Yeah. 255- 54 is a section. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thanks, Mr. J. >> I have nothing right now.

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I have been asking my questions as we go. I do have one question. I'm not a golfer. So, what's a golf pavilion? >> Well, it's going to be a simulator. Okay. So, it's a golf simulator. >> So, it's an enclosure for the simulator. >> Enclosed. Yes. And uh and insulated

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because I understand it can be used in the winter time. >> Okay. >> So, I don't know if we have any >> Okay. >> I mean, I [snorts] think the architect can address. We'll ask some of those questions and and there'll be other questions like plumbing besides the

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electrical. Okay, I'm I'm good for now. Oh, one one other thing. Sorry. >> I see that there are four seepage pits on the site. They're all existing, >> right? >> Um is this doesn't change that requirement? >> Doesn't add any more because it's okay

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because the impervious is the same. >> Yeah, it's a fairly new house so we haven't updated it. >> Okay, thank you. Um, I was just interested, maybe somebody could tell me is a the golf putting green, does that absorb water

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>> or does is there runoff on on a putting green? >> I don't I don't know anything about golf. So, >> I can tell you about baseball. >> Maybe ask our uh Do we know if it's a uh >> an artificial turf? >> This whole lawn is artificial turf.

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>> It's artificial turf. Does it have drainage under it or is it on a concrete surface? >> You're nodding. Yes. >> On the project. >> Yes. It all drains down. It's all It's all pvious. >> It's pvious. [snorts] >> So that shouldn't add to your coverage

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then. >> Okay. >> Again, the structure going on top of what already is there is impervious coverage. So it's not increasing any storm water management needs. >> Okay. And I don't see anybody from the p from uh any of your neighbors here. And

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that's usually something that uh I like to take into consideration if they have a issue with noise or anything that they might be disturbed by. And I don't see anyone. So uh I'm passing it on to Mike.

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All my questions will be for my one question will be for the architect. >> Sounds good. How is the runoff the water runoff from the roof going to be collected? Is it is it a slanted roof or Yeah, it's a slanted roof. And there's a

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tr there's a trench drain actually on the uh on the sport court in the back. So, the sport car has a slight pitch to it and uh can be picked up that way. But the the rain is actually going to be

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funneled differently than it is today. Right. The creation of that roof is going to create is it if it's I know the architect will take us through that, but I'm a little concerned about the runoff of the water and how it's going to be

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redirected and whether or not the existing property can handle that with the seepage fits. Um, you mean that you afraid that the the concentration of runoff from the roof is different than on the sport court? >> Oh, right now it rain falls,

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>> right? >> It's flat and now you're putting a unit there and somehow >> flat on the sport court rolls off to one in one direction because of very slight pitch which has the trench drain along the the rear side of your sport.

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>> Right. But the roof the roof is going to change that. >> I we'll wait and we'll see what the architect displays. >> Okay, >> that's all I have. >> Thanks Bob. >> Thank you. >> And one last thing and

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this will be soundproof so that you know hitting in even on a simulator does create noise. So we we accommodating for sound suppression. >> Architect question. >> The architect can talk about how insulated it is and how it sounds to

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>> Okay. >> But there is a this is being replaced from a pickle ball. So there's a pickle ball court now. It'll be a golf pavilion next. So pickle ball court makes more golf.

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>> Yeah. A lot of noise. So the pickle ball court goes away. it its use goes away with this development. >> The pickle ball court use >> that's what the the >> you don't really have the room. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> And it should be an improvement if it's actually used. >> All right. >> Yes. Um the golf ping green that's existing, right? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. Um,

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the new Gulf Tavon looks like it's going to be built over a sports court. What is the material for that sports court? What is it? Concrete? What is it? >> Uh, I don't know. You tell me the sport

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court material under that concrete base. Asphalt. looking at at the drawing looks like it's within the uh the area of the sports court. So um my question is you have additional 40

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square foot over existing for f like calculations. Where is the difference if the whole structure is within the uh sports court? I don't think the sport court counts as

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F. Right. It counts as lock coverage or impervious >> but it doesn't count >> but it doesn't count as F. I think I mean I'm not an expert in previous >> that would incorrect Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. >> Total lot coverage doesn't change. >> Yeah. It's a lot of purpose coverage.

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That's why >> the structure itself is more than 40 square foot. Right. >> Yes. >> I'm just wondering where what's the difference? You know it went from >> 520 to 5860. 38.6 coverage. It looks like the whole

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thing is covered. Oh, 520 to 5860. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> So, the F initially was the dwelling. >> Okay. >> Now, it's the dwelling plus the pavilion. >> Okay. >> Okay.

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All right. Thank you. >> Mr. Kramer. >> All right. I do have one more question before we open it to the public. I just realized. So, there's an existing frame shed on the property in the upper right hand corner of the plan. Is do we have a requirement about the

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number of um accessory recreational, you know, buildings on a property? >> Yes, Mr. Chairman, it might be the best time for me to then segue. >> Why don't we do that criteria? >> I think Ed's prepared to respond. >> Yes. Um for under section 255-54

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permitted accessory buildings requirement is is for um limitation on the number of accessory buildings. No more than one accessory building shall be permitted on any lot. But it goes on to say later on um bear with me a second.

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>> A second accessory building or structure is permitted provided the second accessory building or structure does not exceed 150 ft in area. a normal shed a 10 by 15 thereabouts. >> So by what I'm seeing here that looks probably a what maybe a 10 by 10

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>> it's close eight by eight something like that. So I think we're okay with regard to that >> 132. >> It's 132. Okay. Thank you. >> It's on the plane right now. >> Okay. Sorry if I missed that. Um so therefore that would meet that requirement. But I will talk about one thing that's interesting in the floor

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area calculation that I think might have been Mr. Scrabble's point is that under section, bear with me as I get the right citation. It's 2554 D, I'm sorry, E, which is height and area restrictions. >> Mhm.

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>> It goes on to say that square footage in an accessory building over 150 square ft shall count as building floor area and shall be counted towards the applicable floor area ratio requirement. So I think if

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you took out 150 square ft from the 340 that you're proposing, would you be over the >> You may not you may not even requirement. I apologize if I didn't catch this. Let's let's do my math right now if you want to. >> So

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>> you see what I'm saying? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's why we Yeah. That's why we asked. >> I can see you had thought about that. You >> did. I just couldn't remember what the regulation was and we created that regulation because we're getting lots of gazeos and lots of accessory buildings. >> So, can you give me that number again?

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Sure. >> Certainly. It's square footage in an accessory building over 150 square ft shall count as building floor area and shall be counted towards the applicable floor area ratio requirement. >> And what's the height, by the way, the requirement? >> Uh, it is uh uh 14 ft.

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>> And this complies 13' 8 in, right? 300. >> What's the square footage of this unit? >> So, you're adding >> still going to be over. >> You're adding 340 square ft, right? >> I I know. And I I did a calculation of how much F do we have left over before

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we do anything. >> Mhm. And I got about 50 a little less than 50 square feet. >> I see. >> And this is 340 ft minus the 150. Okay. [clears throat] >> So what the 23.1 will go down to what a

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22 point high number. >> That's important because then we can I want to be we can we can look at this as a dimmin. Right now it's not dimminimous from our perspective >> but this could end up being dimminimous. So >> 22.8 8 or something like that.

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Trying to help you out 710. >> I have 5710 as well. 22 by the total lot area. >> Yeah. 22.6

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>> 22.6 22.6. >> Not quite the minimum, but okay. >> Okay. Well, uh if if for whatever reason this gets approved today, uh we would just ask you to revise the calculations. Okay. And res and resubmit them.

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Um, okay. We have to open the meeting to the public even though there's nobody there for any questions regarding the application. >> Second. >> Any All in favor? >> Does anybody from the public have any questions regarding the testimony of the engineer? Seeing none,

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>> motion to close. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> All right. Who's your next um architect Noah. Okay. Is this Adler's last name? >> I guess he he has a plan. >> We're going to mark it B2, I guess.

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>> Mhm. Date of January 23rd. Sir, would you raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony given this proceeding shall be put on? >> I do. >> And we have your full name, please. >> Noah [clears throat] Aller. >> Agl. Yes.

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>> Thank you. You are a licensed architect. Yes. >> You previously been qualified before land use boards. >> Many in Ming County. Yes. I was actually also previously a member of the Howard playing by myself. >> Oh, you are? >> I won. I can leave it because

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>> I know how it's fairly well. >> Yeah, I know you're the I know the whole Y. >> All right, >> Mr. Adler, why don't you walk us through? >> Okay. Uh, yeah. So, what we're proposing is an accessory structure. It's going to be a uh a pavilion, a shed, essentially

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a large shed pavilion on the property on the existing scorecourt. Um, it is going to house a golf simulator um and some a little seating area. um with you know maybe a couple a few chairs and some small tables. Um these golf simulators

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they can get quite big. They they consist of a um you know a large screen um that sometimes has is three dimensionally not just in front of you but also on the sides. It can be you know upwards of 12 ft wide and typically the um where the tea is where you're

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hitting the ball from is at least 10 feet from the screen minimum. Um, and then there's a projector um that kind of projects the uh image of the course on the screen as you hit the ball. It kind of tracks the trajectory of the ball onto the screen um as as if you're

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playing an actual golf hole. Um so, uh so that's the the the program of the pavilion. The the pavilion is designed as like I said a shed structure. Um it is uh 17 ft wide by 20 ft deep. Um the front of it is facing the home itself.

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So the sides and the rear are facing the the respective property lines. Um in the it says in your ordinance that a um you're allowed you're permitted for an accessory structure 14 ft in height. I'm proposing 13'6 in um 350 enclosed square

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feet. We're proposing 340 enclosed square feet. >> Could you give me those numbers again? >> You're you're permitted 350 enclosed square feet. here and we're proposing 340. Um, and you're also permitted 500 square ft of roofed area. Um, and we're

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proposing uh 450 ft. So on the front side, the the shed roof, as you can see here in the elevations, is going to stick um protrude from the front wall 4' 6 in. Um, and then on the two on the two sides of the mirror, it's going to

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project out six inches from the exterior wall. That helps minimize water leakage into the filter itself. Um, so a water will drain positive drainage towards the rear. Um, it's a low flow

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roof. Um, so it will drain towards the rear as Mr. Mel pointed out. Um, there's a a drain at the rear of the spore cord. So essentially what's going to happen is there going to be no change in the drainage cuz right now water rain water is hitting the sport itself. This drain

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is pitching down to that drain anyway. So instead now it's going to land on the roof, pitch down onto the sport court and then pitch out into that and drain into that drain. So it's really not going to be impacted um by the the structure itself. Um there will be um

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insulation in the walls. Um the the owner wants to make this a conditioned space. Um so it can be used year round. Um so there will be air conditioning in there and as with any one of your homes there will be insulation in the walls. Uh so that way it can be habited inhabited and used year round. So that

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word inhabited but I know but [laughter] also serve um sound mitigation purposes and certainly um you know there's always there's you know other architectural measures. >> AC only or will it be heat? I believe over here you it be like a combination maybe like a mini split says plus I

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don't know exactly yet but it'll have so you know the owner can use this in the winter time as well. Um on the front facing the house like so basically the the opening um it'll be solid walls for most of it. Um on the two sides oriented

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towards the front there will be solid um fixed glass um panels. Um double pane for energy purposes also helps with the sound. And then um on the front uh most of the width of the opening will be an accordion door that will open. So in

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nice weather this pavilion can be fully open on the front to the uh to the exterior um as well. But uh since you know since basically opening is in the front um facing that house noise is really any noise that might come from

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hitting a golf ball will just be facing the you know towards the house. It won't, you know, it'll be very limited, if any, that'll go out towards the mid. >> Where's the AC unit going to be? >> Um, it'll probably be somewhere, um, you know, on the sides or the rear.

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>> Doesn't does it need a compressor or >> uh, it'll probably be you know, Nick, you know, type system. A mini split. So, it's one of those like duck list splits like you know it's like up in the wallish >> you know so it's really it's like a very minimum small condensing unit on the

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exterior. >> Okay. >> Um you know if needed we can you know locate that towards the interior of the lot to >> do you know that's you know >> Yep. Okay. Keep going. Sorry. >> That's okay. Um I and then u light the last thing was

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lighting. Um, as was mentioned earlier, um, interior will have some down lights and recessed tie hats and then those will continue. There'll be two of them built into the underside of that overhang in the front. So, um, recess like you know what these are. So, there

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will be basically no lighting, [music] you know, extending the part of the, uh, immediate vicinity of the structure itself and that would be blocked from the neighbors as Mr. And I tell point out too, there's plenty of vegetation

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and trees that also, you know, >> is is are you proposing additional landscaping >> above and beyond what's there now to to mask it or No, >> no, I don't believe we are right. >> No. Okay. >> What's it going to be made of? What the

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walls going to look like? Um yeah, there'll be um so it'll be a woodframe structure uh typical wood frame structure and the exterior will be clad in a um we're proposing like natural pine wood plank system uh so it'll have like a natural kind of shed look to it

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um which will blend well both with the >> the residence as well as the natural environment around it signing facial trim Okay. Nice. All right. We're going to open it up to the uh board. >> Yep.

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>> Ed, Mr. Chairman, one of the things that you uh also you were citing from the the accessory structure requirements for a uh RA 25 zone lot. It also states as well that you can't have a longer length than 20 ft parallel to the side lot

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line. Your wall length is maximum 20 ft. Correct. >> Yeah, that's what we're at. >> So therefore, that would conform. I wanted the board to be aware of that compliance as well. >> Thanks for pointing that out, Ed. >> That's the only question I had. Thank you. >> Uh, yes. Do you have any plumbing in here? >> Uh, there's no proposed plumbing, no

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water, no bathroom, no nothing. >> And what is the roofing material? >> Uh, it'll probably just be um, you know, for most Oh, sorry. Yeah, we're proposing um standing seam metal roof. Um, >> it is a metal roof. >> Okay. [clears throat] Are you worried about the noise in the rain with that roof?

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>> Um, not particularly. I mean, a lot of houses these days have metal roofs on it and, >> you know, standard material. >> Um, and you know, it's better for lower pitch roofs in terms of >> minimizing potential for leaking than a

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standard asphalt shingle or a, you know, a TPO or EPDM, you know. >> Um, okay. >> You good? >> Yeah. I want to piggy back off of Tom's question about the plumbing. >> If this were to be approved, would you would you agree to something in the

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resolution that said no plumbing will ever be added to the building? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. So, we would make that a condition of approval. >> That would be fine. >> Okay. >> Just um you know, there might be a you know, condensing line for air conditioning. >> That's fine. >> No, no sinker toilet. >> No sinker toilet or right. That's

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>> no no this is not going to be a dwelling no sleeping you know unit >> based on what you heard earlier in the meeting >> you can understand right >> I have I have plenty of people who contact me about accessory doings I pass on [laughter]

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>> so >> are the GL are the doors the accordion doors are they glass or they >> mostly yes it's glass but they will be at least double pane you know they may even be triple you know depending on what it is but yeah they'll be you know nice wide accordion Again, I'm just going to mention that I don't see any uh

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anybody from any neighbors here that would be interested in in hearing what they had to say. Um and so as long as our architects or engineers and our planners uh you know analyze the impervious

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coverage and the water runoff and all the other things they put the simulator that's >> pretty good with the garage type structure. Interesting. >> Huge. They do that in mine. Yeah. Yep. >> I don't play golf, but I've heard that.

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Right. >> I don't think there's air conditioning on a golf course. >> You know why we put air conditioning in here? No. Um >> I I Okay. All right. That perfect >> answer. >> A perfect answer. Okay. That's it. Got

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no more questions. [laughter] I I still have very minor concern about the decibel levels when those doors are open. I've been in simulators. I don't swing, but I've watched my son hit and

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they do make noise, but I guess they're the noise is going to be channeled towards the house. But I'm I'm wondering if have you have you ever measured decibb? We have a number of simulators

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in Fort Lee that are used in commercial uh atmospheres. Is regular um insulation truly going to deaden the sound >> within this unit? >> So it doesn't spill to the back inside.

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And there's other there's other materials certainly you know the sheilock and there's other materials that can be applied to the um you know material the walls on the inside to help >> well can be or will be. So what what do you plan

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>> I don't know it depends if you want to you know if you want to put something at a specific decel I don't know exactly what I I don't research the actual decibel level. Have you ever been in a simulator? >> So, so my friend at AI >> says that a golf simulator generates

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between 75 and 120 dB. >> So, your intuition is right. >> Yeah. If you stand in one, they're loud. And it's loud at two points. When you hit the ball and then when it hits the actual curtain. >> Yeah.

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>> That is the simulator. So, we do have a decibel level um requirement in town. I mean, maybe this is worth considering on how you might insulate it appropriately. >> I mean, this could be used late at night. You know, people

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work all day and then they want to hit their golf balls. And I think we have to be conscious about it. Other than that, I don't have a problem with it. But in the summertime, I can see those doors are going to be open, >> right? And I'd want them open as well.

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Um, and then that decibel level is going to be magnified. >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, sir. Could I offer that a condition might be to to incorporate sound attenuation fabrics or materials on the walls >> in order [clears throat] to reduce the

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reflection of the sound >> out of the facility. Is that >> Yeah, we probably want some kind of a calculation that shows what the decibel level is, you know, at the wall and then at the at the yard at the fence at at the >> neighboring property, right? >> Yeah.

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>> Down would be if we're going to make it a condition. >> Well, what's our requirement? >> Compliance with the performance standards of our code. >> Yeah. Is what you >> Okay, that's fine. >> Yeah. And the owner has just informed me as well that there will be um you're supposed to put in some padding on the inside of the walls in case of Eric, you

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know, golf shots. >> Just to protect himself. >> From the wife. >> So So what we're saying is if this were to be approved tonight, we're going to put a into the resolution another condition that says we will comply with with the >> sound >> sound requirements. Um, and so we would

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ask you if you can again when you s resubmit because we're asking for these be resubmitted um that it includes that information. >> Very good. >> If we if we approve it tonight. >> Yeah. And and >> the reason I'm conscious about this today was with my landscaper and I found

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two golf balls in my backyard. So one of my neighbors is chipping. So I love the idea of a simulator enclosed but I've never had golf balls from my backyard. today. I found a few of them. >> All right.

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>> That's it for me. >> So, I heard it's going to be a cooling system. Is that going to be heating, too? I >> It'll be like a central like a 3D split system that provide you basically just, you know, >> a split system. >> Yeah, it's a remote control. You know,

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you can check the temperature and it heats or cools as >> and you you need a permit for that, right? From the town to install it. Well, that'll be part of, you know, whatever when we do the full building permit application, >> you know, you know, there'll be a permit, you know, part of that application for the air condition.

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>> Okay. >> Anything else, Dick? >> That's it. >> A couple of comments or questions really. Um, the stationary, so just confirming, I think you said this already, but the um it's going to like the glass opening is going to face the house. >> Yes.

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>> So, that's good. I like that. And then the um the stationary panels on the side are those intended to be Wait, are those glass as well that open? >> They're they're full glass, but they're fixed. They're not operable. So you can't >> just to get some more

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>> pad those Yeah. Having having hitting the simulator, you're sure you want Are those going to be >> Yeah, because you don't because they >> How good are the glass? the glass is only in the front, >> you know, within the front six feet of the and where you're going to be standing hitting a ball is somewhere

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beyond that >> and you're hitting it towards the back. So, >> still if that was me, I would >> I would just think about I would just think I'm I'm not against I would think about that. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. Just I have another question. So, comments.

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>> Thanks, Mike. >> Mr. Peter, >> what's the existing foundation of the court? What's it made of? >> Concrete and asphalt. >> I think we said it was a concrete under asphalt.

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>> Concrete base and asphalt. >> Is there um uh like is this stepped up at all from the court? No, it'll be at So, there will have to be some footings in there a little bit, but we're not really, you know, we're not moving because it's over

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an existing imperous surface or not. >> Yeah, I'm just wondering about water seepage and >> Yeah, that's a good question. >> Um I mean we >> coming into it. Yeah, >> yeah, I mean the the doors you know I

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I've done plenty of um you know structures where we have uh you know openings to floor you know finished floor levels are at um grade on you know and you know as long as it's you know you get the right products and it's built right and it's done right it's it

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shouldn't really be an issue. But you know, I could maybe >> that's a good point. >> You know, if anything, we could step it up, you know, like for you know, just to give a little bit of >> something you should consider. >> Yeah. >> What else, Sam? >> Um, really? No, just uh the sound was a

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concern for me. Uh I think it's going to be pretty loud. Um >> yeah, >> at least the directed out of the h out of there and then maybe reflecting off the house. Um, and yeah, and and a stray golf ball hitting the glass seems like a gotta get some good glass.

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>> It's got to be loud inside as well. >> I do have one more question. >> Sure. >> About the height. So, it's it's 10 ft pitch. It's 13 ft pitch down to 10, >> correct? Yeah. 13 and a half. >> Okay. And and that's based on calculation

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based on like golf swing. There's no way to reduce that at all. I'm not trying to change your plan. It's it's just a matter of get it's not even it the golf the trajectory of the golf ball is not affect is not impacted by the >> it's just a matter of getting a a lower

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pitch you know keeping the structure within the within the maximum accessory structure height as well as you know in the back having enough height for the screen that the ball is being >> fit into. So >> and that it's 10 ft to the top so you're going to have insulation under it. So,

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and there's also like a foot, you know, be like a few inches of piece of structure with the two by >> this is a 2x8. >> Sure. >> You know, >> it'll be like an enclosed ceiling, I'm assuming. >> Yeah. Yeah. Sheetrock on the inside and >> Yeah. So, you have to design, you know, all that.

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>> I got them. Okay. >> I'm assuming 10 ft works within the simulator. I in a lot of places they're, you know, the ceiling's much higher. >> Is 10 feet good enough to work? >> Yeah. that they make there's products

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that you can get like 9 10 ft screens and you know again you're not you're standing you're not standing too far back the screen so with the you know when you hit the ball it's not really it don't hit this way you know >> would it would it make sense for the 10

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ft to be in the front and the 13t in the back where the screen is like the screen to be taller and >> like I think that it would reverse like where it's lower in the front door and towards the back of the >> you know from from an aesthetic you know

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you have a point but from >> just an observation aesthetics >> I mean I'm not telling you how to design it >> you want to open it to like the house and the property make it feel open on that side versus like >> just just talking >> now did you say I don't know did somebody address this this is being

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built on a current cement foundation that no no footings are being put around like to >> so what this building is actually being built on top of like a a cement >> patio. >> Yeah. >> Now that doesn't require any like that

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with the with the weight of >> with the weight of a building with the >> on the building. Yes. There'll be footings placed on the plan to to >> there'll be footings that are going to be poured for this port. >> Yeah. Sorry. Yes. Structurally, yes,

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there will be we will have to kind of remove part of the >> cement. cement and put plates in. You have to do some demo work, >> right? Otherwise, otherwise it's gonna crack in the middle. You know, the weight. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. It can't just sit on the >> Well, that's what I mean. But that's what I thought. That's what I thought I

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heard you were doing. >> No, no, no, no. Yeah. No. You can see, >> right? Right. They were just building it on top of the cement patio that was there without the weight would crack the middle and go like this.

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I think you said they'll have >> I got a couple questions though. >> Um, >> talking about the decals, this and that and the whole bit and >> in relation to a driving range like the one up on I

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don't know if you're familiar up on 303. It's got to be 100, >> right? >> What's the sound of those? Like >> I mean if you have a 100 times >> Yeah. But those aren't those aren't aren't enclosed though. They're wide.

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>> Yeah, they're wide open. >> They're wide open, right? >> But isn't the golf ball hit the same sound as a golf ball hit? >> No. In a enclosed structure, you're going to hear it hit the the screen and everything, the ceiling.

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>> I'd be hitting the ceiling. >> And then often this is just I mean I know from um seeing kids up there, they just have a screen I guess behind them. If you're swinging, if you're going that way, that's behind. That That's the only reason I'm If there's like just a screen

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there. Can you have a screen so you don't break the glass, you know, behind you? >> I don't know if I'm saying it right. I don't know what behind is >> I'm not wor about the sound. I'm just worried about game expensive dirt.

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There's some >> Oh, just dead. >> Oh, okay. Okay. [music] >> Like, can we rack a ball court? >> Right. >> Okay. >> No, I'm good. >> I I do have two other quick questions. Um, what year was the house built?

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>> Just it was built in I have my drawers here. I have architectural drawings from 2023. So I don't know when the actual permit was received and when the construction happens >> and yeah >> knowing now the conversation we had

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earlier about the square footage and the fact that the now the F increases down to 22.6 six. Is there or was there any consideration about maybe making the simulator enclosure a little smaller so that it didn't require an F increase?

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Because even if we approve it, this house is always going to have to come before the planning board whenever it does anything in the future. And if you could avoid having an F approval, you can leave tonight and not have to worry about anything. >> I mean, has that consideration been given?

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I I believe when we discussed you know you know in terms of providing adequate space for the simulator that you know mechanism you know you know um having a little seating you know being able to

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>> yeah equipment and all that >> I don't know if we can reduce the size 50t >> okay I mean just making a recommendation to make the homeowner 's life a lot easier in the future. Anytime they want to do any work in the house, >> right?

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>> Um >> well, they could right in the future, but they'd have to take down either the shed or or this pavilion, >> right? >> Right. >> And and I don't know enough about the house to know if the garage square

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footage is properly calculated towards F uh because we have an exception for 400 square feet, >> right? Yeah. No, I mean I'm working on based off of the archite the original architect calculation. So, >> okay. >> Um, you know, the numbers >> just putting that out there for

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consideration >> as we open the meeting to the public for questions to the architect. Anybody want to make a >> motion open? Motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> seeing none. >> Motion to close. >> Second. >> All in favor?

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>> I All righty. Any other further testimony and any further consideration to my question from about 30 seconds ago? >> All right. >> Or comments from the public for >> Yes. We have to open the meeting to the public for comments. >> Make a motion, please. >> Make a motion.

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>> Motion to open the meeting to the public for comments. >> Second. >> All in favor? I. >> We only have one person from the public here. Right. >> And he's a Nick fan. >> Any comments, Mr. Boyce? Make a motion to close. >> Second.

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>> All in favor? I. >> All right. Do you have any further >> comments? All right. Um, and that's it. Nothing else. All right. Do we have a motion regarding

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this application? I make a motion to approve the application with the added stipulations as voiced by the uh board during testimony >> and that's the plumbing and that was something else >> and the sound and the insulation. Was

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there anything else we agreed to >> regarding the sound? Mr. Chairman, you may want to have them refer to section 218-34 noise. It talks specifically about that so you're aware of it. And we we will make it a requirement that we need revised drawings submitted. So when we

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have the resolution next month, if this were to be approved, >> um we would want to have that by then. >> Do we need sound studies as well? >> I think enough just for I would I would trust the information. It's enough publicly available information as long as they provide it to us though. I think

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>> so we would want to know what they're using to get there. >> Yeah. Yes. >> It's important to get the plans done quickly. So, >> and >> I'm going to start working on a resolution to have it. >> Let me ask a question of you. >> Yeah. >> Can I keep going down this path with them? Maybe they'll get the hint at some

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point. Um, if we were to approve it tonight and then they decide to make the building under the square footage, um, what happens? >> We can do that. >> We would, but no, the variance is still there. And >> all right, we have a motion. We have a

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second. >> Second. >> All right. Let's have a roll call. Who who made the um motion? >> Who made the motion? >> Knight did second Dick and second. >> All right. >> Okay, Jan, you have to pull seven regular members. >> Mr. Najio, >> yes. >> Mr. Mari,

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>> yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr. John. >> Yes. >> Mr. Scalaba. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr. Zari. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Seven. >> Got seven. Congratulations. >> Thank you very much. Think about making

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a small one. >> Watch the glass. >> Yeah. >> I want to learn how to play though. >> All right. Do we have anything else? >> All right. Let's make a motion to >> motion to close. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Everybody, let's go. Next.

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>> So, you didn't notice that we didn't >> No. Did we get it fixed? >> We got it fixed. >> Fixed that crime. It's