I will now call this meeting to order. At this time, I please ask everyone to silence your cell phones and any other electronic device. Your greeters at the door is planning director Steven Spraer and city engineer
Alex Schuman. And to my far right, your far left, we have recording secretary Tail Lockard, city clerk Susan Doris, Deputy Mayor, Zone One Commissioner Lorie Taland. >> Good evening everyone and welcome.
>> Zone 2 Commissioner Travis Sergeant. >> Good evening. >> And to my left and to your right, we have zone 3 commissioner Kristen Deon. >> Welcome everyone. >> Zone 4 Commissioner Howard Bryley. >> Good evening. Welcome. City Manager Joyce Shadahan,
Assistant City Manager Sean Finley, Deputy City Attorney Anne Margaret Emory, and to my far left and near far right, we have Police Chief Jesse Godfrey, Fire Chief Howard Bailey,
and I am Mayor Jason Leslie. At this time, I'd like to call up Chaplain Sam Ricardo of Advent Health for the uh invocation followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. Heavenly Father,
in this Thanksgiving season, we come together to thank you for our city of Orman Beach. We thank you for the people who reside in our city and form the various communities in our town
tonight. We also thank you for our city leaders and all who are here tonight to hear the business matters of our town. Bless us with your wisdom and guidance so our city shines as a beacon to all.
We pray in your holy name. Amen. Amen. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. >> Thank you all. Be seated. Thank you chaplain for coming. cards. >> Moving on to presentations and proclamation section section of the agenda. Today we have two proclamations. Um I'd like to invite the members of the
Daughters of the American Revolution, Captain James Orman chapter to come up to receive the proclamation. Well, actually, so I'm going to use the microphone here. You guys can go this direction. Here we go. I didn't know what you were doing. I was like, um, if you want, you can just kind of row up
a little bit and I'll just stand in the middle here and whoever wants to hold the proclamation, um, I will hand it to you and we'll kind of do that. But it's good to see some of you ladies, by the way. I saw some of you just on Saturday. Yeah. >> Yes. For anybody who doesn't know, uh
they were involved in a a marker dedication for Sanchez Park. So, uh if you haven't been there, I I would strongly go there and check out the marker and read a little bit more about uh Sanchez and some of the things he done for the community. Um here we go. Who wants to hold the
proclamation? Susan. >> Okay, there we go. You're only going to hear whereas about five times. Whereas Native American Awareness Week was first established in 1976 and recognition was expanded by Congress and
approved by President George HW Bush in August 1990, designating the month of November as National American Indian Heritage Month. And whereas throughout its history, the National Society Daughters of the American Revolution through its American Indians committee
has long championed the preservation of native heritage and supported educational opportunities through scholarships, cultural programs, and outreach initiatives. And whereas the history and culture of the United States has been profoundly shaped by American Indians and the
peoples who continues uh contributions in governance, agriculture, military service and the arts continue to enrich the freedom, prosperity and greatness of our nation. And whereas native peoples are admired for their resilience and
their customs, languages, and traditions are respected and celebrated as a part of rich and enduring legacy across the United States. Now therefore, I, Jason Leslie, mayor of the city of Orin Beach, do hereby proclaim November as National American
Indian Heritage Month. Thank you. >> We just have to get close. We smell each other's perfume. >> It was decided Congratulations. >> Hey, give these ladies a round of applause for everything they do. All right. Thank you for coming out. Thank
you. You're welcome to stay or you know, if you got to go home, it's okay. >> Next up is Entrepreneurship Month. Um, who's going to receive that proclamation? Brian Uh, yeah. I guess I guess you'd be a good fit.
Thanks, Brian. This is Brian Rodmacher for anybody doesn't know. He's the economic development director for Orm Beach. Whereas entrepreneurship through small business and startups serve as vital component of the local economy fostering
innovation, creativity and job creation while embodying the spirit of independence and self-reh reliance. And whereas entrepreneurship month provides an occasion to celebrate resilience, hard work, and dedication while highlighting the importance of
entrepreneurship in driving economic development, job creation, and the pursuit of dreams. And whereas for a week during entrepreneurship month with the theme of together we build the city of Orin Beach, Valuchia County and the local
community will kick off the Valuchia Innovation Challenge, a countywide pitch challenge where a winner will be selected March 2026. And whereas the city of Orin Beach recognizes the importance of supporting and empowering entrepreneurs by
fostering a businessfriendly environment that encourages investment, nurtures innovation, and promotes opportunities for all. And whereas the city's economic development department is committed to empowering entrepreneurs year round by providing resources, programs, and
initiatives that help local businesses succeed, including the doing business in Orman Beach guide developed with the Chamber of Commerce, the FastTrack for Entrepreneurs course, and the size up analytics tool. Now therefore, I, Jason
Leslie, mayor of the city of Orange Beach, do hereby proclaim November 18th, 2025 as a day to celebrate Entrepreneurship Month. I'm just going to get a little close for a picture. Thank you. Thank you.
Okay, we're going to move on to number five. Um, at this time, we'll hear from those of you who have signed a card to speak about any item which is not on the printed agenda for this meeting or any items on the consent agenda. Each person will be given a total of three minutes.
As a reminder, please sure to state your name and address and speak clearly into the microphone. And I'll just add the reason why we asked for that is because we might follow up with you later on and it'll help us with the follow-up process. So with that, I'm going to call up first
speaker Jeff Bole. Jeff Bole, 614 North Halifax Drive. On November 5th, the Daytona Beach City Commission voted 4 to2 to offer Orman Beach $2.5 million to purchase our city's rights to provide water and sewer
services to Avalon Park. Has this offer been communicated to Orman Beach? And if not, why not? If it has been communicated, why is the November 5th offer not on tonight's agenda?
Since 2006, the two cities have not been able to agree on what compensation Daytona should pay Orman for the services. There's never been any public discussion of the Avalon Park Service issue by any of the current elected commissioners.
The Daytona Beach offer should be voted on immediately. This is an opportunity to end the current court litigation and our city's costly legal service bills from McKinnon and McKinnon. Taking the offer would spare taxpayers
an estimated 100 million in immediate infrastructure costs to provide the services. It would remove us from a risky partnership with Daytona Beach, a city that broke a service boundary agreement in 2002 to annex the land on our side of the line, a breach that
created the legal dispute in the first place. There has never been a commission discussion or citizen mandate to bear the infrastructure costs and provide the services. With the Daytona Beach decision now on the public record, our
citizens are still being kept in the dark as to the costbenefit analysis of the Avalon Park water and sewer decision. A judge might decide that Orman is entitled to zero compensation. We ask for a public hearing and an
immediate decision on the Daytona Beach $2.5 million cash offer. Thank you. >> Thank you for coming out. Next, we have David Swagg. >> David. >> Yeah.
>> Come on up, >> David. Wherever David is with the scribbly S and Z. >> Seagull. >> There you go. Okay. I'm sorry. Maybe this seagull. Yeah, it's >> No, no, it's okay. Come on up, David.
You're up. You're up next. >> If I screw up, I'll be in real trouble. Okay. Um, just want to uh briefly address something. I I've got like three pages and I never read this stuff. Um, uh, David Seagull, 928 Buenav Vista
Avenue, Orman Beach, Florida. I've been a resident for 68 years since I just turned that a few weeks ago. Anyway, um, I wanted to just kind of raise an issue that's kind of been surfacing our neighborhood over and over. Um, we had a neighbor that really
did I'm talking severe uh alterations to a house uh without going through any permitting. And um one of the things uh they've turned their garage into some kind of room. They raised the floor and they put
a phony garage door on a wall to make well whatever to make you all think it's a garage. They also took a screened in area and um the architecture of it had like small little wood screen going all the way up to the roof. The roof was
supported by corner the big stone stuff whatever. Um and they walled all of that in and in doing the alterations um they expanded their living space in the house by 76%.
Um, and they just did some other things, but I guess the point is that um, the house did go through a sale and all of that. Um, but I'm just want to really try and kind of raise some of these
issues. I mean, uh, they actually poured a concrete slab out the back and started uh, thinking of doing a room. This was like continuous expansion and the house already was it's one of those 1950s
um was actually below Orman's standard for how many feet you need between the the property um thing. But again, my uh concern is that um one if you expand the living space in your house, you're supposed to pay the higher taxes on it.
And so, uh, uh, that's what I was told by the tax assessor's office is what is your actual living space? And this has kind of been there. We've raised the issue recently to the zoning department and the response back was, well, how long has it been that way? Um,
you all can, you know, handle these things any way you want, but, you know, if you've got a standard that a home's supposed to have a garage and somebody gets creative and walls it up and puts a phony extends out the garage 10 feet with walls and then puts a phony garage
door stuck up on it and you can't raise it. And they raise the floor about this much because the rest of the house is that far off the ground. Um these are significant um alterations and I just think somebody needs to be looking into these kind of
things. I have files I'm not not going to present them tonight but anyway >> uh David stay there for one second. Um, just two things. One is that we do have your contact information here, so maybe some we'll have somebody maybe follow up with you on that. >> Sure. >> And I think Commissioner Deon had a a comment. >> I was just going to ask if you knew the
address for that property. >> It's 924 Vista Avenue >> and it's a Vista. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, David. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming out >> and and you have a very good well-run meeting. I see your friends in Central
Florida. >> Thank you, David. Um, next I have uh Alan Burton. Alan Burton, 915 Ocean Shore Boulevard, zone one. I'd like to talk tonight about sacred
stewardship. How does one communicate the whole idea of sacred stewardship? We have lived it in several ways in the past years that include but are not limited to regrow the loop valued
day flooding problem solving native planting etc. We communicate steward stewardship in many ways and one of them is through music. One such way was
defined in 1742 when Hondell first performed Messiah in Dublin, Ireland. In his 12th movement and as a member of the Stson University Coral Union for 25 plus years, we sang
Messiah several times. And in the 12th movement, it goes for us, unto us a child is born. unto us a son is given. And the next few verses really are for you, the city commissioner. So, you can
join me in the response, but we'll we'll get to that in a minute. I only have three. This week, a draft of Regrow America will be forwarded to organize a new notfor-profit organization in Florida like the the Friends of Orman Beach
Performing Arts Center. This not for-profit will forge a public private partnership to supplement the county's regrowia program. And I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to Troy Kent, the county
councilman for district 4 and the county council for putting that program in. Regrow America stewardship will start right here tonight in Orman Beach, Valuchia County. My ask for you, the city commission, is to seek a
relationship where the city of Orman Beach adopts a resolution that enables a county city partnership to regrow Valuchia and Orman Beach. Now, back to
Hano's Messiah verses. After listening to the rest of the movement, which you'll probably go on YouTube and and take a look, you will hear a call for sacred stewardship that only you can provide. After your part, I will sing.
Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, Alan. Next up is GI Galloway. Good evening, mayor and commissioners. GG Galloway, 1305 Oak Forest Drive, Orman Beach. After last month, I'm very
proud to give you my name and my address. I've been coming to these meetings for 40 years. Many times I've been on the winning side. Many times I've been on the losing side. But I just think we as citizens need to understand civics more. And I'm very proud, mayor,
that you came out tonight and said what the importance of somebody giving their name and their address. Um, I have never seen in all my years involved in advocacy where somebody refused to give their name or address. And I just hope that y'all will continue
to ask for their name and address for a couple reasons. one, if somebody has a complaint to you, I want to make sure I know if if I was in your situation, are they a citizens of Orman Beach or is it somebody that's just been brought in?
The second thing is, mayor, you said it exactly well. It is an excellent way to follow up. So many times people will come here and and um uh give their grievances, but I hope y'all will stick to what we've always done in the past for 40 years and continue to ask people
to give their name and address. Thank you so much for the time. >> Thank you, Gigi. Next up, we have Anthony Confori. >> Good guys. Long time no see. My birthday just went by. So if anyone wants to give me a late gift and reopen my application,
that'd be spectacular. Really would. Saying that to say this, some new information was just about to my attention. Um I noticed uh just to complement your existing code that the cosmetic tattooing in section D offers a guest artist in that space. Um it is
only for 14 days and I believe the filing fee for that is $210. uh just came to you today for full transparency as I operate as clear as a glass window. Uh if I were to implement something like that after talking to my inspector who is completely on board with approving the space, is that
something that would add some grip to your slippery slope and respect the integrity of not only the board's decision but the citizens alike um with me moving forward until we come to some sort of agreement whether it's reopening, reapplying, or getting that second motion that we're seeking because
I feel like we're very close. Maybe anybody have any comments? I don't I don't know if that makes sense. >> I'm sorry, Anthony, but you know, happy birthday, by the way. >> Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. >> Is that maybe a better question? >> Anything else you'd like to add? >> No, no, no, no. I was just curious if >> Okay, Travis.
>> Just for the record, you know, Commissioner De and myself were on the losing end of that. So, we can't bring it up. We can't be a part of that. So, I just want you to understand that within that process, it would have to be someone that was on the winning end to bring it back up. >> Wonderful. And the second for that motion also has to be on the winning end as well. Correct.
>> Okay. Great. So, if we reapply, we can do this process again via the planning board, GDG, and all these wonderful people that approved us the first time and do what we already did. >> That'd be the better way to go about it. >> And Margaret, correct me if I'm wrong, that would probably be the correct process.
>> Okay. Why Why don't you discuss with staff? We'll we can help you with that. Okay, perfect. And which staff should I >> start with? There you go. >> Department call with Steven Spreaker in the planning department. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it. >> All right. Happy belated.
>> Okay. Next up, we have DW Lewis. >> Um, I know you you filled out several cards here, but we can only give you three minutes. All right. I hope that's you know hope you understand that the floor is yours.
Thank you city commissioner of Arman Beach. My name is DW Lewis. I've lived here for years. I'm a general contractor out of another state. I've been told I don't know how to do
anything. That's what I've been told. I know how to do anything I want. And I'll tell you that tonight. Gigi Galloway, you want to know my address?
It's freedom United States. I can move anywhere I want, anytime I want, any way I want. What do you need my address for? You hear me? Why do you need my address when I'm a
Native American and I live here? What do you want to do? I'm asking GG Galloway that question. I'm a general contractor. You know, if you build something right at ground level, you do not have to have
a county permit. As long as it doesn't come off above the ground, you can put any slab you want down anytime you want. I'm talking to you, Gigi Galloway, because you just said something that got
me burnt. I know the loss. I can move any day I want, anywhere I want, and I can rent anywhere I want. What do you need my address for? I'm a general contractor.
You don't like me using a paintbrush. You don't like me moving my hand. I've been a general contractor since I was 17 years old. I started writing songs when I was 16. You know why I give you pauses?
So you can think about what I said. Thank you, Orin Beach. I'm a homeless man because of Orin Beach and Gigi Galloway. Okay, we'll move on to the approval of the minutes for the November 4th, 2025 city commission meeting have been sent
to the commission for review and posted to the city's website. Anyone have any corrections or changes? Move to approval. Do I have a second? >> Any discussion? >> Seeing none, all those in favor by saying I. >> I. >> Okay, that is unanimous approval for the
minutes. We're going to move on to uh seven. The following item is community red development item. The city commission serves as the community redevelopment agency of the city and must review this item and make a recommendation as in the CRA. Therefore,
we we will recess the city commission meeting and call the CRA meeting to order. I will now open the public hearings. Madame Secretary, please read the title 7A. Resolution number 2025-180, a resolution of the city commission also
acting as the community redevelopment agency of the city of Orman Beach, Florida, accepting a proposal from dredging and marine consultants LLC to provide professional engineering services regarding the Fortunado Park Pier and Gazebo repair project authorizing the execution of a work
authorization thereto and setting forth an effective date. This is resolution number 2025-180 read by title only. Move approval. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Um, does anybody want uh the city
engineer to come up and speak on the item? >> Yes, please. >> Okay. Alex, can you please come up? City engineer. >> Good evening. Alex Schuan, city engineer. Um, so this is a proposal for the design of the Fortunado Fishing Pier. It was
initially constructed in uh 1997. Um, we've had a couple inspections following Hurricane Milton um that have determined that the the pilings for the most part um as well as much of the structure of the pier is uh deteriorated
and beyond repair. So this is for the design of the replacement of the Fortunado Pier. >> Thank you, Alex. Um so I have a question for you. Um once we are done with this engineer report, um how much time will
it take before we go into the construction phase of this thing and when do you see that being complete? >> So we anticipate uh having construction ready plans um by March for the um find grant Florida Inland Navigation District.
If it's if the repair if the damage is greater than 50%. Then you basically have to conform to the new uh code right because it when it was built in 97 the code has obviously changed to now. Okay. So that's what we're essentially facing here is because it was determined by a
professional that it's greater than 50% damage right now to repair it in its current uh the way it's currently built. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. I'm just trying to understand all this though. But I understand the the the non-conforming and conforming with the 50%. Um Sean,
did you want to say something? >> I think Alex has covered it. >> Okay. >> If there's any questions, I can answer. I I I just to kind of add to what Alex has has given you. Um in order to get a building permit, we would need plans that are signed and sealed by a registered floor registered professional
engineer in the state of Florida. Um to assume that the engineer who did those plans 30 years ago would want to resign those is probably um a little bit wishful thinking. I don't know that we would get that and and and an engineer would have to rerun calculations would have to review those plans in order to
be able to per Florida statute be able to sign those sign and seal those plans. So I I think it's a you know it's an admirable thought but it's not one that Florida statute allows registered professional engineers to do. Um we have seen very high costs from from our consultants. We had a we had a a
proposal just two weeks ago for a water man replacement that I was absolutely a gasast at the at the fees that we saw and and and when we received that I spoke to Alex and and the engineers the project manager and said this is this is one that we could that that other
project was one that we can do in house. The engineers engineers have their own areas of specialization. We do not have engineers on staff who are who are specialized in structural design. Um I as a registered professional engineer, I um am sworn and
and have a have have a license that requires me to do my my job to benefit and to ensure public health and safety and and so taking the step of having a registered professional engineer do this design is is the step that that that
responsibly we should take. Um, I I understand this is this is a long timeline. Part of that is is in order to get the fine grant, which I think is a fiscally responsible effort on ours to take. If if if the direction is to get this done as quickly as possible, we can
we can look for other other ways to fund this other than through a fine grant. Um, sounds like the the the design will be done March, April. That would allow us to put it out to bid at that time, which would help expedite it a little bit. Um but you know looking for ways to help stretch every dollar that we have.
We're we were looking to the fine grant which is is the most likely and um for us to be able to get here and we've had experience with it. Um you know hopefully hopefully that respectfully provides you a little bit more information that and but Alex certainly has given you some as well.
>> Well going back to what commissioner Sergeant said though is that you know I got to agree what what took so long for us to get here at this point from when the when the pier did close. So it's it's this fine grant process. We make an application in March and they take till October to award it. So um that's we're
find is covering 50% of the cost of design um for this pier. And so that's that's what's taking the the significant amount of time. >> Question will the fine grant also help with the build? I know it's helping with
the design, but 50%. >> 50%. >> And do we have an idea of what that cost is going to be >> to for the whole rebuild? >> Uh >> or is that just congesture? I mean, do we have any ideas?
>> Well, yeah. So, we have to do we have to send that for RFP for the uh build actual bail build after we do the design. >> We don't go out to bid. >> Yeah. Okay. So depending on what the RFP would be will depend on what the cost is, but it'll be a 50% match though with the with the grant that we were uh
granted. Okay. All right. Any other questions for Alex? No. Okay. Uh thank you, Alex. >> Thank you. >> I don't have any cards here um from the public to speak on the item. So we have a motion in a second. Um I will have the
city clerk please call the vote. >> Commissioner Toland, >> yes. Commissioner Sergeant, >> no. Commissioner Deon, >> yes. >> Commissioner Bryley, >> yes. >> Mayor Leslie, >> yes. I will now close the public hearings and
reconvene the city commission meeting. Going to move on to consent agenda. Items on the consent agenda are deemed routine and non-controversial. The action proposed is stated for each item. Unless the city commission removes an item from the consent agenda, no discussion on individual items will
occur and a single motion will approve all items. Does any member of the commission wish to pull any items from the consent agenda? >> Seeing none. Oh, wait a minute. >> I'd like to pull items
8A and B. >> Oh, 8 A and A. You said 8 A. >> Okay. Um, deputy mayor, >> same. Okay, same. Any other items? >> Move approve the uh consent agenda minus items A and B. >> Second.
>> Okay, any discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, please call the vote. >> Commissioner Sergeant, >> yes. >> Commissioner Deon, >> yes. >> Commissioner Bryley, >> yes. >> Commissioner Toland, >> yes. Mayor Leslie, >> yes. >> Okay. Um, city clerk, can you please
read AA resolution number 2025-180? Resolution number 2025-180, a resolution of the city commission also acting as the community redevelopment agency of the city of Orman Beach, Florida, accepting a proposal from dredging and marine consultants LLC to
provide professional engineering services regarding the Fortunado Park Pier and Gazebo repair project authorizing the execution of a work authorization thereto and setting forth an effective date. This is resolution number 2025-180 read by title only. Is there a motion
for approval? >> Move approval. Second >> discussion. Um I know. Okay. Commission. No. All right. Deputy mayor, you want to speak on it? >> Most of my comments were in the CRA
portion. So, um I I I I just wanted I guess the comment really is it really has taken a long time for us to get to this point. And I don't know if there were any other grants that we could have looked at sooner. Um it's just frustrating, you know, how slow
government is. That's all >> ditto to that. Uh Commissioner Brley, >> I guess my only comment would be um once this is done everything, if we can just somehow possibly expedite the process to get it done. That's all. >> Can we accommodate on that? All right. I
see the nod over there. Good. Um any other discussion? No. Seeing none, city clerk, please call the vote. >> Commissioner Deon, >> yes. >> Commissioner Brileley, >> yes. >> Commissioner Toland, >> yes. Commissioner Sergeant, >> no. >> Mayor Leslie, >> yes.
>> City clerk, can you please read item 8B, resolution number 2025-181. Resolution number 2025-181, a resolution accepting a proposal from Dredging and Marine Consultants LLC to provide professional engineering design
services regarding the Riviera Park Pier and Gazebo repair project authorizing the execution of a work authorization there two and setting forth an effective date. This is resolution number 2025-181 read by title only. >> Motion for approval.
>> Move approval. >> Second. Okay. U have Alex come up here because I did have a question for Alex and um you said just a few minutes ago that the Fortunado Park, you know, we were waiting for a grant and that's what
slowed down this whole process. And now um Riviera Park is the process slow on this because we applied for the grant also and is that why we're here this long even though we didn't get the grant? >> Correct. >> Okay. >> So construction on this will proceed much much quicker.
>> Okay. Okay. What's the timeline on that? >> Uh again, this one is going to be tracking about the same for design um design complete March or April. Um we can apply again for a fine grant for construction um for that same timeline or we can proceed directly to bidding
and construction and have it under construction, you know, by summer. >> Okay. Well, we don't have any grants for this that we're not going to get, right? So, >> uh we don't for design. >> For design. Okay. >> We apply again for construction. >> Okay. Okay. So, we can get the design moving yesterday. Um, and then from
there, we'll put the RFP out and then apply for the grant and Okay. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, any questions for Alex? >> I just have a comment. Does it seem odd to you that both of the signs, and I'm not picking on you, are exactly both
86,000 when they're two different projects. I'm just wondering if they're just like, "Oh, we got 86,000 for this one. Let's let's go for it on this one as well." I'm just curious. >> There there's a lot of the same time
involved with permitting and and the the the length of the design. Um, you know, there's there's some they're going to have to set up the same number of of sheets and the drawings and and do some of the same calculations. It's it's a little bit not quite, you know, copy
paste to extend the length of the pier, but it's it's a similar idea. >> So, a lot of overlap is what you're saying, >> right? >> Okay. >> What's the age of the pier? Is it the same age as uh >> this one? I is is roughly the same. Yeah, >> roughly the same age. Um, Commissioner
Sergeant, >> thank you. Once again, I'm just frustrated that here we are pushing it down the road. It's going to take forever. Just like Andy Romano Park, you know, we have these facilities that are damaged by hurricanes and it
just seems like they drag on Andy Romano Park. The taxpayers chose to tax themselves for that park and it's been closed for how long now? and and and here we have peers that are um I understand that we're applying for
grants and stuff, but I mean to me it's pretty um I want to choose my words carefully. I'm not happy with the timeline at all on these projects when the one is on one of our four corners of
of the the bridge where people walk by it every day and and you know I get calls all the time about these projects. what are we doing? And it's kind of embarrassing when you keep saying, "Oh, we're going to design phase." We're just now going to design phase and then we're
not looking at construction until 2027. All right. Wow. So, I assume that whoever inspected this uh pier determined that there's more than 50% damage. >> Correct. I gota tell you I gota agree with the deputy mayor though I was kind of fishy that the design is the same price for
both fears I I don't understand that but I guess they measure it by lineer feed or how they measuring the the the estimate on this thing or the time I mean I just >> so like I said the the number of plans plan sheets and the permitting process will be the same regardless of the the
length of the pier >> and it did take a long time attributed from hurricane Melvin that was a while ago Go. I get a lot of calls about this and a fortunado. When's this going to open? >> Signs been closed forever.
>> It's a shame. Um, any other discussion here from the commission? Seeing none. >> All right. Thanks, Alex. >> City clerk, please call the vote. >> Commissioner Brileley, >> yes. >> Commissioner Toland, >> yes. Commissioner Sergeant, >> no. >> Commissioner Deon,
>> yes. >> Mayor Leslie, >> yes. >> Okay. Um, do any of the commissioners wish to comment any other items on the consent agenda at this time? No. Seeing none. Okay. Take your time. Hurry up.
Um, okay. We're going to move on to the public hearings. I'll now open the public hearings. Um, city clerk, please read the legal title for 9A, Ordinance Number 2025-35.
Ordinance number 2025-35 and ordinance amending chapter 2 district and general regulations article 2 district regulations section 2-42 design standards of the city of Orman Beach land development code building design standards to be consistent with
section 163.3202 Florida statutes regarding residential building design elements repealing all inconsistent ordinances or parts thereof providing for severability and setting forth with an effective date. This is the first reading of ordinance number 2025-35
read by title only. Do >> I have a motion for approval? >> So move. >> Second. >> Uh Steven Spreaker, could you please come up and speak on the item? >> Good evening. Steven Sper, planning director with the city. Um section 2-42
of the land development code contains residential design standards. Um there's a Florida statute section that preempts u local governments from enacting building design standards for single family structures. So we're seeking to make our land development code consistent with the Florida statutes.
Homeowners associations can still have their regulations separate of the city, but the city cannot um regulate the design standard for single family residential homes. Plan board did recommend approval. Staff is available if there are any questions. >> Mr. Mayor, >> so Steph, this is probably just a
housekeeping issue. >> Correct. And and there are a couple on next couple agendas that are Florida statute based. Yep. >> Thank you, Stephen. Oh, Deputy Mayor. >> Yeah. Does this have anything to do with the discussion with the modular homes
um design discussion that I had with you before? >> Um it's it's based on that. It's not it's not directly with the modular homes, but basically the city can't regulate the building design >> cleaning up all of that. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Awesome. Any other questions for
Stephen? Seeing none. Thank you, Stephen. And I do not have any cards for public comment. So, I will have the city clerk please call the vote. >> Commissioner Tolland, >> yes. Commissioner Sergeant, >> yes. >> Commissioner Deon, >> yes. Commissioner Brileley,
>> yes. >> Mayor Leslie, >> yes. >> Uh, city clerk, can you please read the legal title for ordinance number 2025-36? Ordinance number 2025-36 an ordinance amending chapter 1 general
administration article 3 definitions and acronyms section 1-22 definition of terms and words of the city of Orman Beach land development code to amend the principal structure definition and chapter 2 district and general regulations article 3 general regulation
section 2-50 accessory uses subsection O garages of the city of Orman and Beach Land Development Code to amend the maximum size of detached garages allowed for properties 2 acres or greater in size to
100% of the total square footage of the principal structure repealing all inconsistent ordinances or parts thereof providing for severability and setting forth an effective date. This is the first reading of ordinance number 2025-36 read by title only. >> Motion for approval.
>> So move second. >> Second. >> Uh Stephen, can you please come up again? and speak on the item. >> Good evening again. Stephen Spreaker, plan director. This is a land development code um that was at the directive of the city commission. Our
current standards um requires a detached garage to be 50% of the principal structure. So have a 2,000t house. The maximum detach garage you can have is a th00and square feet. um those regulations were put in in the early 2000s as there were a couple properties
that had house or garages, detach garages that were bigger than the principal house. So that balance has been in the land development code um for a while. Um the amendment seeks to allow properties that are 2 acres and greater to have a detached garage that's 100%.
So going back to our example, they could have a detached garage of of 2,000 square feet of the principal structure. For the properties that are 1.99 acres and less, the standard stays the same. They would be 50% of the principal square footage. The planning board recommended approval. I believe the vote
was 5 to2. Um staff is available if there are any questions. >> So Steve, just so I noticed though, the amendment uh expands the definition of principal structure. >> It clarifies it. So that that's what we have been using it. Since we were in this um amendment area, we thought it would be good to put that in writing so
everyone >> okay >> is on the same page. >> Any questions for Stephen? Deputy mayor. >> I have a bunch. So, um, I understand where where we were and I'm thinking about when I was on the
planning board and and all the questions and and I am a property rights kind of girl, but I also think I have some questions about this. How many where where did this originate from? I know it was commission driven, but are
there certain areas in our town um that we're we're looking at? I mean, are these smaller houses on on 2 acre lots that are looking for a detached garage that's larger? Let's
say you have a 1,800 square foot house and right now you can only put a 900 ft garage. or we, you know, I see where that's okay or where that might work if you if you went up to 100%. But let's just say you have a large house, let's
say a 5,000 square foot house, and then you're going to be putting another 5,000 structure on a 2acre lot. That could be really obtrusive um to neighbors. So, I'm thinking about the neighbors. So, are there properties
in our town um that we're looking at to make these changes? >> So, the direction for this item came from the commission. I believe it was August 3rd. So, I don't know the whole backstory of of you I think Commissioner Bryley and he could probably speak to it,
>> but basically I think the thought process was if I have a two twoacre lot, I have a lot of property, I could build a principal structure of that five of that 5,000 feet in your example. I could do that by right. So instead of building another principal structure adding on
now I do a detached garage. So it really is a policy decision. Um in the staff report you know staff throughout the number of 100%. If you want to make it less that's certainly within the commission directive. This was not a staff initiated amendment. So we're
we're working for the pleasure of the commission. So, when you were speaking with the the planning board, when it was brought to the planning board, I usually read all the minutes and I apologize I did not I only spoke to a member. Um, was there any discussion with limiting it on size of the house? So, let's say
if you're on a 2acre h 2 acre in your property, your primary property is 2,000 square foot or less or was there any discussion with the size of the house as well or no? No, it's really based on the size of the lot with a theory that once
you get over two acres, you have a large lot that could accommodate additional structures. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um it says here that sheds that are over 150 square feet are classified as garages. Yes, sir. >> Within this land development code, this
is new land development code. >> Yeah, I'm not I'm not in favor of that. So, that's going to be a no for me. >> Um any other questions? I think um just for clarification, I had brought this up. I was I was um
approached by a constituent and and Commissioner Talon, to your to your point, we could I mean, if if if we have concerns and somebody says somebody has a 5,000t house, maybe you you get to a limit of if your house is 5,000 square ft or whatever that magic number is,
then you revert back to the 50% so it's not too obtrusive. typically two acres. Those are pretty large large lots. Um, in a situation where somebody has and a lot of these in the area this particular constituent lives, you have a lot of
smaller homes on large lots. So, let's just say you have a 1500 foot house. You can only build a 750 ft detached garage under our current code. So, um, I I I kind of looked at it with with this with such large lots. A lot of
times you a lot of times you pass by these things there's there's I know of of a couple on the gentleman's street and you pass by it you don't even you don't even recognize or know that there's a workshop next to the house. So that was pretty much my point. If if if there's any sort of desire to say
anything up to a certain size if you want to go you know 75% or 50% from that I think that would be okay. But um it's really I think I thought it was kind of punitive to have someone who maybe who has even a 2,000 foot house which is not a real big house on 2 acres that they
couldn't do a similar size garage detached garage. I I appreciate you explaining where where it drive from and I I do understand with a smaller house with a larger lot. I think my my big my concern I probably would like staff to
come back with maybe um some gradual percentages with I know it's complicated. I hate to complicate issues, but I I I do see where there might be a thing where you might have two acres in in a I'm just say 5,000
square foot house. >> That would be a lot of building. >> Now >> on two acres. >> Now remember, you could do say you had a 3,000t house. You could build a 3,000 foot garage that's attached to the house and you never know that it was a garage.
>> Yeah. This is detached. >> This is detached. And the problem you get into is the some of the problems these folks find with doing an attached garage. >> Yeah. >> Your insurance goes through the roof. >> On an attached garage. >> So, >> I would I would be curious to see what um Kristen and Travis think about this
as well. Thanks. >> I do have a card here for public comment. So, you guys can speak before, after, wherever you want on that. >> Okay. If you guys want, I'll go to public comment real quick and you guys can speak on >> Yeah, you can do the public comment then I'll speak. That's fine. >> Okay. Uh, could I have a Ralph Coats
come up? >> Good evening. Ralph Coach, 733 Santa Fe A. I want to put a separate detached garage next to the house. I'm 1891 square foot. It's R2 zoning. I'm allowed to do it if
I add on to the home. Financially, that's not doable for me. insurance-wise, it's not doable. It's like a small rule that I can do it if I spend a lot of money. I don't have it, you know. Uh I've been in the community,
Orman Beach 50 years. I've worked at Mower Depot 28 years. I've been given to the community. I just need a little tweak in the rule. I don't know that there's properties my size, a whole lot of them left in Orman Beach.
that end of the street backs up to the railroad tracks. Um, we're about 300 square foot short of what the rule allows. Just asking for a blessing to kind of
look at this in a financial man working every day. I need my space. Uh, trying to keep honest people honest. I'd like to be able to put my equipment away at night and lock it. hurricanes. I'd like to be able to put my stuff in shelter
and lock it. You'll let me build a uh two two-sided, closed, too open as big as I want, which isn't fair to my neighbors. Wind gets under it, throws it on a neighbor. I don't see where that makes as much
common sense as it does to to look at this individually. you know, um that whole end of the street was changed. When I bought the home, it was county. I literally built the house on that side knowing one day the kids will move out and I'll have a garage. They're moved
out. I'm trying to move on. Um I really just want to keep honest people honest, keep them out of the yard. We've had a lot of door handles lifted in in the neighborhood. I don't call the police every time that happens. You know, put gates up, fencing, but you got Publix
back there. You've got the arches. The homeless are just cruising around at night. I just like to be able to lock my door, lock my stuff up, and go to sleep knowing I've done the best I could do. >> I don't think there's a whole lot of properties that size out there that are
going to cause a problem for the for the neighborhoods. There are five buildings on my street now. They're allowed to build because they have big homes. I'm not able to do that. you know, um, 40 hours a week doing the
best I can. I just need a common sense yes to me with without insulting anybody. It just looks like a common sense yes. >> Okay. >> Um, Commissioner Dean, I think, had a comment. >> Okay, this is going to sound ignorant, but I have not worked in insurance quite
some time. Can you explain to me the difference between the insurance aspect as being attached verse detached? >> Yes. When it's when it's attached to your home, you have to insure all of it. Okay. And you don't have to insure other structures. >> Correct.
>> I don't have to insure the garage. It's not attached to the home. >> Okay. >> Our insurance now is it it's $1,800,900 square foot and it's $3,600 a year. Just keeps going up. I don't see where that is going to stop. Um government that
ain't going to stop. They they've got their hands on so many other things. I don't know that that's going to stop. you know, the property taxes, they go up a little bit each year as well. Um, cost of living. I mean, I'm struggling. You know, it's it's a dream. >> Well, thank you for coming out, Ralph.
>> All right. Thanks. >> All right. All right. We have to go back to discussion here. >> So, I I I'm torn. I'm not quite sure. I don't want to see a bunch of 2,000 foot houses and 2,000 foot detached garages, but I would love to bless this guy. I
don't I'm torn on it. I also look at it as from the mort mortgage aspect as somebody who knows that there are certain guidelines where your detached garage cannot be worth more than your house. Um otherwise it might cause a mortgage issue. Um I I don't know. I'm
torn. >> Commissioner Sergeant, >> I'm a yes on it. And I don't think we have too many more lots in Orman Beach that are two acres that this is really going to affect. And I I think it's kind of like to me, I mean, hate to bring it
up, Anony's gone, but I think it's t like the tattoo part of the putting these guidelines on it. I I I don't see how I can not vote for it. So, I'm a yes on it. >> Mr. Mayor, >> Commissioner Brley. >> And I don't think you see a whole lot of twoacre lots within kind of like what I
would call Orman Beach proper. A lot of them are kind of on the outskirts of Or Beach. I mean, they're still within the city limits, but I'm thinking like Durance Acres. the well some of it still some of it's still in the city of Orange Beach so you know you think about twoacre lots those are pretty goodiz lots and and I'm glad staff brought at
least 2 acres or greater back to us rather than say you know even one or an acre and a half >> so there there was no magic to the 100% so if you want to drop it to a percentage lower than 100% you could probably still achieve the goal that
this resident president is looking for and maybe resolve some of the concerns of, you know, equal equal to the house. So you could do 60 70 75%. You could come up with some other number that may still work.
>> Would that make more sense than going by size of house, square footage of house, and and changing the percentage that way? I mean, I I sympathize. I think when you have a smaller house and I think you
have a lot of toys or tractors and things, you're trying to hide it and put it in a structure. I I hear what he's saying and I I would like to accommodate that. I just I just and I don't know how that was my question. How many properties do we have like this that
could have a huge house on it? You know, that could have another huge huge detached. So, what what do you think would be e I won't say easier, but cleaner, a percentage, a strict percentage, or go by size of the house?
Uh I'm not sure where I'm at. Right. So, you could drop the 100% down to 75% or 70 and you know, if you want to establish a maximum size of garage, but the danger with that is there are other structures that can be built that will
get to that cumulative maximum, right? You could do a detached um accessory dwelling unit. You could do a carport as you referenced. >> When this was brought up, was it brought up at the dis or was this brought up at a workshop? I mean, how did this even come about? >> During a Yeah, commissioner comments.
>> Closing comments. Okay. I'm sorry, Commissioner D. >> You're fine. Okay. So, to address uh Deputy Mayor, so this gentleman right here, his total building square footage is 2,50 feet. I just pulled it up. And that's his total living area, not his I mean, that's his total building area, not his living area. and you wanted
1981, I think is what he said. We couldn't really do a percentage because he's not going to be able to get what he's after. >> If that's what we're trying to appease is him and he's just doing it's it would need to be the 100% for him. >> Yeah. And you know what I'm reading here
even the staff notes here. Um and I'm just going to read what it says here that the city commission's direction did not specify the maximum allowance for the detached garage structure. if there's a desire for a percentage other than 100% of the principal structure for the detached garage for lots properties two acres and greater an amendment would
be needed. So to me like I think that like the way I feel about it is there still kind of a little slippery slope for me on this one. Um you know unless we want to go back and maybe have a workshop on it maybe talk a little more give a little more direction on exactly what we want. Um, I'm going to be a no vote on this, but if you guys want to
table it and have a discussion at a workshop and get this maybe a little more clarified, I would feel a little more comfortable with it. Um, even like in here it says that sheds that are over 150 square feet are classified as garages and I'm like, you know, it's just I'm not I'm not there yet with it. >> Could I ask Mr. Coat one more question?
>> Um, sure. >> Are you stuck on the 1981 or is there any wiggle room there? >> Was that the square footage you said? I apologize. The the home is 1,891, I believe. >> Okay. Total building area. Well, I guess
30 less your patio. That's correct. >> And what was the square footage you're looking for for your detached garage? >> 1,200. It's 30 by 40. >> Okay. So, >> okay. >> We could do a percentage, but I'm I'm not necessarily a no. I'm just >> think like I said
the cardboards are allowed as big as you want. It doesn't make any sense. Can you can you follow up with him then on it or do you want >> Well, he and I have been following up on this all together and I again I don't have any problem. Listen, you're talking about twoacre lots. How many twoacre lots do you have in the city of Warren Beach?
>> Not a whole lot. >> And again, you start looking at setbacks on two acre lots. If you put two 5,000 just say it was 5,000 foot, you're going to have plenty of setback. That's two acres. >> So, it doesn't compromise the setbacks. You still have to have the same setbacks. Correct.
>> You still have to have the set setbacks. So the same same buffer will be around for the neighbors and the whole thing. It's just what's in the middle. >> Commissioner De, you said you had a number. >> I did the math. 63.4% 63.5% is what he's looking for. Um,
sorry that's my thing. Um, if we wanted to look at a lesser amount, that is the percentage from 1891 to 1200. If we would like to look at a lesser amount, >> well, it says in here that, you know, we would have to make an amendment um to that because we're at 100% right now. Yeah. Well, I would be willing to make
amendment to 75% >> 75. >> Did you want to address the detached garage situation, though? >> Yeah. I just don't I just don't like it. I mean, >> why is that in there? >> Why did we add the shed? >> Yeah. Why do we add a shed >> verbage for detached garage?
>> So, there are se So, a a shed is seven and a half feet to the property line, whereas a detached garage is 20 feet. So there's a greater setback for a garage versus a shed. So if you want to build a structure that is larger, you have a larger setback.
>> That's actually positive. That's good. >> And and that has been in the code since at least 2004. >> That's actually a positive thing because it would be further away from the >> right. So you don't want to build large structures right on the on the close to the property line. So and you can have multiple sheds. So if you're under if
you're 10,000 square feet or under, you can have two sheds and then it graduates up. So you could have two sheds of 150 ft at 7 and a half, but you combine it, you get a larger structure. It needs to meet the principal building setbacks. >> All right, one other thought. We still we always get these exceptions. Why
don't we just treat this as a an as an exception? >> Great question. So this isn't eligible for a board of adjustment variance. It's not in the section where they can have variance and quite honestly there's not a hardship. So because somebody wants a
larger house, >> it doesn't meet the hardship criteria, the variance criteria. >> So to do this, we have to change. >> You have to land development. >> Y Okay. >> Yeah. >> Sure. Commissioner Sergeant, you want to say something? >> So there's houses on North Beach Street,
let's say, that are 10,000 square feet on an acre property. And here we're talking about 2,000 square feet with a 2,000 square ft uh detached garage on 2 acres. I mean, just think of that what you
could build on one acre a 5 to 8,000 square foot house, but we're worried about and there's not many 2acre lots um within the city limits. and we're worried about an 18,800 square foot
house and an 18,800 square foot garage. I understand that we're looking down the road, too. There's other options, but just think of that for a second that there's if you look at some of the houses along the river that are more than 8,000 square ft on less than an acre and we're talking about 2 acres
here. Just to throw that out there as I >> But to appease this gentleman right here only needs 63.4%, 4%. Why don't we settle at 75 and appease everybody? >> Well, can I >> Yeah,
>> please. >> You start doing something like that, you're looking at you're and MR correct me if I'm wrong. You're looking at you're looking at spot zoning potentially. If you're doing something to benefit just one person at a specific I mean, we can make it what we want to,
don't get me wrong. Um, I don't think we should just use one example, though, is what I'm saying. You you you you set up citywide for the betterment of Right. >> Correct. Correct. But if I'm having concerns over 100%, but I feel better about 75%. >> That's fine. But I don't think you we
shouldn't just use one. >> I I understand that. Not just using but it would help the situation that you brought to the commission because of help alleviate some of our concerns. >> Then how what about making a motion for 75% then? >> Second. Oh, that's good.
>> Um, well, we already had a motion on the table, so we have to amend that motion. >> Okay, I think I made the motion, so I will amend my motion to 75% of the principal structure. >> Second. Okay, we have a motion in a second. Any
other discussion? Any questions for Stephen or anyone else? No. Okay, city clerk, please call the vote. >> Commissioner Sergeant, >> yes. >> Commissioner Deon, >> yes. >> Commissioner Bryley, >> yes. Commissioner Toland, >> yes. >> Mayor Leslie, >> no.
>> Okay, we're going to move on to resolution number 2025187. Please read uh the legal title. Resolution number 2025-187, a resolution authorizing the execution and issuance of a special exception
development order for a house of worship regarding First United Methodist Church located at 336 South Halifax Drive within the R-2 single family lowdensity zoning district to allow for the demolition of the existing gathering
building and construction of a new gathering building with associated site improvements. the repeal and replacement of resolution 93-38 in its entirety establishing conditions and expiration date of approval and setting forth an effective date. This is resolution
resolution number 2025-187 read by title only. >> Is there a motion for approval? >> So move. >> Second. >> Second. >> Um Steven Spreer, please speak on the item. >> Good evening. Steven Spreaker, plan director. This is a request for a
special exception at 336 South Halifax Drive shown in blue on that aerial. The property has a zoning of R2. Within the R2 zoning district, a house of worship is a special exception use. So, as they change the site and as they add square
footage, it requires a public hearing through the special exception process. Um in 1993 the the church went through a similar process added the building on would be my right the orange uh building the blue building is the building that's
being demolished under this application proposed to be um that development order was very detailed. It will be uh removed in its entirety if approved. Um staff noted that that special exception did not require a wall around the property which will be important in a second. Um
the new building is pulled away from the residential lots. There is a fence along the boundary and there's also an establishment of a landscape buffer which is not there today on the property. There's a neighborhood meeting that was conducted on April 9th. The site preview committee conducted a determination meeting on September 24th.
There were two key issues. One is the setbacks that are being requested and the second is a wall waiver. If you recall, the applicant uh went through a land development code amendment to allow setbacks less than 100 um linear feet from residential. So they're proposing
33 feet to the porter share and then 58 feet to the building. Both those setbacks are larger than what exists today. Um so they are pulling the building further away from the residential area. This is their wall waiver request. Uh typically, um the land development code
requires masonary wall next to residential. Um the blue area in the exhibit is a 6ft vinyl fence. The green area is a retaining wall with a PVC fence on top. Um again, we noted that there was no wall required with the
original special exception. It looked like because it was a house of worship, there was not a requirement for the wall. Um, there's also benefits of better drainage and less impacts of tree roots for a PVC fence versus a masonary wall. This is a uh exhibit that was
prepared by the applicant that shows the retaining wall and the the PVC vinyl fence. It helps to maintain the drainage. There will be a wee pole where the water can go through the uh retaining wall. These are the architectural elevations for the house
of worship. The planning board did recommend approval of the applica application and the applicant is here to address the commission. Staff's available for any questions. >> Anybody have any questions for Stephen? >> Seeing none. Thank you, Stephen. >> Thank you.
>> And uh are the are you represented from Cobb call? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. For the record, Jessica G with Cobb Cole. Um address is 1 Daytona Boulevard in Daytona Beach, Florida. I do just have two slides, so we will be brief as lawyers love to say. Um, my joke that I told planning board that I
will share with you guys is that the original development team for this special exception in 1993 was Cobb Cole and Zev Cohen. Tonight you have Cobb Cole and Zev Cohen. Although I was not alive in 1993, so it was not me. It was Rob Merrill back then. Um, >> consider yourself lucky.
>> Yeah, it was. >> You said it, not me. Um, so the special exception of the church of course has been around since prior to 1993. Um that was when they came forward with the new sanctuary, which they still call the new sanctuary just about 30 years or so
later. Um the gathering building that we're looking at um here today, the property appraiser has it in the late 1960s. Um so well over 50 years old. Um and while the scope of services for the site are not changing, um they're just a little cramped in their existing buildings and looking for an upgrade
here. Um this slide kind of narrows the focus in on the actual new building here. Halifax is um at the north orientation on this view just so that we can look there. Um like Stephen noted, the setbacks are getting further away. The original building that exists now is about 20 ft.
We're moving it closer to where the lot its regular shape bumps back in the rear um to where that stormwater pond is. Um and we did go through that process almost exactly a year ago in October 2024 to allow modifications of that setback through the special exception
process. Um then second slide is just to show that fencing diagram that Stephen showed and to show the pictures of the existing property line. Um so you can see there's kind of a range there's some chain link in some areas there's some overgrowth in others. Um and we think that having a cohesive fencing along the
perimeter of the site be a huge improvement. You'll have that landscape buffer. Um, and the the true nature of the retaining wall, which is about three feet, and then that opaque vinyl on top is to allow water to flow through that retaining wall. Um, and to preserve an existing gate access that one of the
adjacent residents has that we are maintaining the general location of. I think it shifted over a tiny bit in design, but we want to make sure that they can use that gate because they've historically used it. And so with that, I think those are the highlights and we are here for any questions. I do have Shan Vev Cohen if you have engineering
or storm water questions. >> Um my one question is that how long do you expect the construction project to go on for and completion? >> It's a great question. I think the the church would love to say immediately and it will be done within a year. I would say probably 12 to 18 months is a
typical process. That's just >> just wondering for just in case residents ask. >> Sure. Uh >> any questions for copole? Uh commissioner commissioner sergeant. Sergeant. Okay. I'm sorry. I feel like a ping pong ball. Um, parking. >> Yep.
>> How is this going to affect parking? Because I went to this church at I grew up in this church and I remember when the new sanctuary was built, we had park and ride where we had to park where Salty is and ride a bus over and I remember that was pretty chaotic. So, I just kind of curious on how parking is.
>> So, the parking shift from the current layout to the new building does not change the overall parking number of spaces. They've remained the same. Um, and they are above code standards for the house of worship. >> Thank you. Great. Um, any other questions? No. >> Okay. Commissioner,
>> I just have more of a a comment than a question. Um, Scott, I'd be lying to you if I didn't tell you. There's a little bit of me that wants to say no. Only because this is the church. My parents are married. My aunt, my uncle,
both my dad's siblings were married in this church. I was christened in the old sanctuary. It's going to be tough to see it go. It's going to be a sad day, but um I I I'll I'll be voting in favor of this and and wish you luck. >> I had a very good life and a lot of
great memories. >> So, I have a couple questions. So, masonry wall versus vinyl fence. That was always a big topic in the planning. We're suggesting the vinyl fence for um protecting for the w protecting the
trees. Is that why? Because when we do masonry, we have to go down deep. >> Yeah. So, there's really two reasons. One, I think the masonry wall has a larger footprint, so it has larger impacts on the tree roots and systems on the site. Um the second is that because we have to have that three-foot retaining wall. If we have a three-foot
retaining wall and you move five feet over and then you have a six foot masonry wall, water is not flowing between those two very well. And so the vinyl fencing allows water to free flow by being on top of that retaining wall and allowing that piping. And then where the retaining wall is not allowing gaps in the fencing.
>> And can you see any residents housing behind there? Is it or is it so heavily wooded? I haven't been there in a long time. >> It's pretty dense. I'm going to see if I can try to make this go backwards. I think last time I went there was a funeral and I wasn't looking in the back.
>> Let's see. >> There you go. Yeah. So, that's kind of the perimeter of the site. You can see in the rear there. So, there's a lot of heavy vegetation existing. >> And then and then obviously the use is good. I mean, who want who doesn't want a a nice new church in your community?
So, I appreciate that that um they're trying to make it a better and more um welcoming to the community. Um the setbacks um 100 ft rear and side is what is recom what in our ordinances but
we're going to go to 33 feet on the side and down to 58 in the rear. >> Um well the I'm just worried about the residents have were at the neighborhood meeting did any of the residents complain? I know there was one that wanted the gate
because they wanted to be able to walk to church again. they will keep that gate. Um, and on the setback review, the current gathering building is about 20 feet off the property line because it existed before the special exception requirements. >> And so that's why when we started the
process kind of with that action in October of last year, it was that even though it was non-conforming at that distance, um, your code didn't have flexibility to say, and because this is old and came in at that distance, then we can look at a modified distance. So, it just had that 100. And then the other
question is about um storm water management. You know, how is that going to affect the residents behind? You know, I heard you mention a retaining um a retention pond. Are there other infrastructure pieces that are going in to protect?
>> So, the current system um will remain in place. So, there's the storm water pond um that's located along Flu Hart and then there's a storm water pond in the rear of the property where it kind of goes back to the residents. Um, at the planning board hearing, Buck James, who you're all probably familiar with from the community, he lives adjacent to the
site and he testified that he is actually the designated person to go check the levels of those ponds after storm events. So, after Ian and Nicole, he noted they were full, but they've never exceeded their capacity. And so, the existing design of the site seems to be performing very well.
>> Okay. So, we Sean, we've never had any flooding in that area to your knowledge, right? Any hot spots? That's not one. you know, there's very good there's good drain soil there. I mean, it's it's it's a natural for a dry retention area. So, okay, I think that the design that was done 30 years ago by Zev Con office has
held up and and I would expect that um getting it permitted through St. John's River Water Management District. Um the review the city staff is does will maintain we'll make sure again with all of our storm water you want to make sure that your pre pre and your post match and so um they will make sure that whatever probably the conditions that
you see today will be the commit conditions a year from now when this is done. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I will note just because the planning board asked u the piping and the existing drainage structure has not been touched for 35 years and so getting that revamped will probably help in terms of maintenance
>> improve it. Yeah. Thank you so much. We appreciate everything. You know, because I think the big concern while we're asking that is because we have people that will say the residents that ever since this was built, >> I flood. So, it's good to really clear the air on that one. >> Absolutely. >> Any other questions for Cob Cole? I I
have um Okay, go ahead. >> Just a comment. Thank you. Um I love the growth of this. Um if we can just incorporate some native plants. I can't believe you didn't say it, did you, Mayor Dolan? But some native plants along the back or in the front would be great. Thank you.
>> I I trained you well. I don't need to say it anymore. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. And we have uh a card here from public comment. And at this time, I'll call up a Scott Catin. >> If I said it wrong, I'm sorry.
>> It's Catin. Scott Catton. I live at 331 Riverside Drive. And I believe I'm being impacted by the church. So my comment was I know they're going to do the church and I I'm fine with all that and the setbacks and all that. My concern is
the storm water. I know it's going to come on my property and they have pumps to drain it off and I know pumps fail and it's not going to affect my structure at all. So I'm not really concerned about that part of it. I'm concerned more about the fencing. If
they're going to do a a say a white vinyl fence around this whole property, that would look pretty crappy to me. I think from my property, my perspective looking at that, I don't have that in my yard. I don't want it in my yard. If they do a vinyl fence, maybe they could
do a color or something, you know, so it's not so blatant. And I agree. They're going to do some nice landscaping and stuff, and I'm all for that. and they're going to give me that gate access and I'm all for it. So, I just would like to make a comment that if we could get something a little nicer
than vinyl, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Okay. Oh, yes. Well, I think Sergeant M. Okay. >> Could we do a brown fence on the back so it blended in better instead of a white? >> Oh, yeah. Anything. I don't you know, just something, you know, a plastic white fence. You see?
>> Or would you be happy with heavy vegetation? >> I don't mind vegetation either. the the vegetation's going to be there, >> you know, >> you know, the way they they have it designed, but the fence itself is going to be on my looking at I'm going to look at the fence basically.
>> You know, Scott, what I'll do is uh do you have anything else you want to add to this because um if you don't, I'm just going to have the uh representative from Cob Cole come back up and then maybe answer some of our concerns. >> Okay. >> All right. Do you have anything else you want to say or is that >> No, that was Thank you. >> Thank you.
Again, for the record, Jessica Gawacop, one Daytona Boulevard, Daytona Beach, Florida. The planning board also said they would prefer not white because it's very bright and it kind of has some staining. Um, I got the head nod officially that we could look at brown or a different color alternative for that opaque vinyl.
>> Okay. And the um, you know, we're talking about flooding again, possible flooding. Um, you know, and you you addressed that the drainage would be up to par and would have no impact to the residents anywhere nearby with flooding and drainage problems. >> Correct.
>> Yeah. And I think for the record, because he's here, we can have Shawn me come up with Zevco and just give a high overview of the drainage so that you've got it for the record from the engineer. >> Okay. >> And just for the record, uh, your name and your title and what you do. Uh Sean Meade with Zeb Conan Associates, project
engineer um 300 Interchange Boulevard, Orman Beach, Florida. Um the storm water system for the site um as Jessica explained, we're utilizing the existing uh retention ponds that are out there. Um they're performing well. Um the original design has held up through the
years. Um we are reconfiguring the site and the goal of that was to um keep the site as it is. Um not increase the impervious, which we've done. Um the impervious on the site has actually gone down. So, we've reduced the total amount of pavement, sidewalk, um building
coverage. So, those ponds will perform better based off of that. Um, additionally, the um existing storm water um lift station pump that currently takes water. If you can see on that bottom right picture, the area behind the existing building dips down a
little bit um below grade um and that collects storm water there, takes it to the storm water lift station, and pumps it to the ponds. um that current area will be raised up to a current grade. That water will be picked up and sent directly to the ponds and then the storm water lift station will only serve the
off-site runoff that is coming um from the adjacent property. So the lift station will be receiving less runoff than it was before which would help the capacity of that and then the ponds themselves will receive less runoff due to reduced amount of impervious area. >> Will there be any upgrades to the lift
station or is it going to be the current lift station that's there? It'll be the current listation that's there which was um replaced um and repaired back I believe in 2020. Uh new pumps were put in um and have been reassessed and um maintained since the original pumps and then replaced.
>> Okay. Does anybody have any questions for Zehen? >> So you said the ponds were built in 2020. >> Uh no the um lift station. >> Lift station. >> Correct. So are the ponds dry retention or are they? >> Yes. >> So they're not Okay. because I was going
to say ponds tend to fill in over time and um so I guess we don't have to worry about that but you know maybe maybe make them a little deeper you know but if you would work with the resident I that's always my concern with the fence you know and how how that project is going
to affect them and and obviously the storm water so thank you >> okay any other questions for Zev Cohen or Cob okay thank you >> thank Okay. Well, we uh don't have any more cards here. And uh we have a motion and
a second on the floor here. So, with that said, I will ask the city clerk to call the vote. >> Commissioner Deon, >> yes. Commissioner Bryley, >> yes. >> Commissioner Toland, >> yes. Commissioner Sergeant, >> yes. >> Mayor Leslie, >> yes. I will now close the public
hearings. Um, city clerk, please read the legal title 10A, ordinance number 2025-33. Ordinance number 2025-33, an ordinance amending the annual budget for fiscal year 2024-2025
by amending the general fund 001, downtown redevelopment trust fund 104, storm water utility fund 107, airport fund 108, economic development fund 110, pension contribution pass through fund
113, finance financing debt service fund 205, beachfront Park Bond Fund 220, Capital Improvements Fund 301, Equipment Renewal and Replacement Fund 302, Public Safety Vehicle and Equipment Fund 305,
Transportation Improvements Fund 308, Facilities Renewal and Replacement Fund 317, Water and Wastewater Fund 401, Vehicle Replacement Fund 408, Renewal and Replacement Fund 409, Water System Impact Feund 434, Wastewater System
Impact Feund 43 35 2024 water and wastewater bond bond fund 446 solid waste fund 460 and and the general liability fund 504 and setting forth an effective date. This is the second reading of ordinance number 2025-33
read by title only >> motion for approval. >> Move approval. >> Second. >> Um this is a second reading here. Um do any of you need uh Kelly McGuire to come up and speak on the item? I think we did the last meeting so we think we're up to speed on that. Um, I don't have any audience cards here. Um, any discussion
here from the commission? No. Okay. Uh, city clerk, please call the vote. >> Commissioner Brileley, >> yes. >> Commissioner Toland, >> yes. >> Commissioner Sergeant, >> yes. >> Commissioner Deon, >> yes. >> Mayor Leslie, >> yes. Um, city clerk, please read the legal
title. Um, ordinance number 2025-34. Ordinance number 2025-34, an ordinance of the city of Orman Beach, Florida, further amending article one, general employees pension plan of chapter 16, pensions and retirement of the code of ordinances. Amending section
16-6, benefit amounts and eligibility. Amending section 16-9 vesting providing for a benefit multiplier for credited service earned on or after October 1, 2025 for members hired on or after December 19, 201
12 providing for severability of provisions repealing all ordinances in conflict here with and providing an effective date. This is the second reading of ordinance number 2025-34 read by title only. >> Move approval. >> Second. >> Again, second reading. Uh, do we need Kelly McGuire to come up and speak on
the item? No. I do not have any cards here from the audience. Any any other discussion? No. City clerk, please call the vote. >> Commissioner Toland, >> yes. >> Commissioner Sergeant, >> yes. >> Commissioner Deon, yes. Commissioner Bryley, >> yes.
>> Mayor Leslie, >> yes. Okay, we're going to move on to report suggestions request and we're going to start it off with city manager Joyce Shanahan. >> Thank you all. Um just for your general
planning purposes, uh we have our next reg regular commission meeting scheduled for November 18th and then you >> Excuse me. >> Sorry. I'm like lost in the wilderness here. >> No, it's okay. Um December 2nd is your
uh and 16th are your meeting dates in December. We don't customarily have a second meeting in December, but because it's a long month about how the month starts, we do plan to have two regular meetings on that one. We have a number of of workshops planned for you in the
beginning of the year, including uh Florida Nova Road update. Um budget workshop, you know, those will start sometime in um March to give you plenty of time to look at that. And then um
your capital budget workshops will start sometime in May. So just so that you uh know where you're going with that. Um, just a couple of uh parks and wreck uh items. Magnificent moss at the EDC. Ages
children uh ages 5 to 11 are invited to learn about Magnificent Moss on November 22nd. Co-ed Volleyball Clinic registration will be open. Um, the Caseman's Guild presents the 47th annual Christmas gala on Friday, December 5th
from 5:00 p. p.m. to 9:00 p.m. featuring the tree lighting and Santa's arrival at 6 p.m. Live entertainment, face painting, and etc. will be um available for everybody to participate in. um the 34th annual Home for the Holidays
parade, a country Christmas on Saturday, December 13th, immediately after the Orman Main Street tree lighting at 6 PM. Um some of you have asked about candy and there will be candy on the vehicles. Are there any questions that you have
for me tonight? >> Any questions for Joyce? No. All right. Thank you, Joyce. >> Very much. Uh, assistant city manager Sean Finley. >> Nothing further. Have a good night. >> All right. Have a good night. Um, city attorney. >> No, thank you.
>> Okay. All right. We'll start it off tonight with Commissioner Brryley. >> I'll be very brief. Um, like to thank the public for coming out tonight, giving us your input. As always, we appreciate that. I want to thank staff
for all of your hard work and dedication to the city and for putting up with us. And for everyone else and my colleagues and everyone in the room, I wish you all a happy Thanksgiving. Thank you. >> Happy Thanksgiving. Um, Commissioner, um, Deputy Mayor
Tolland, >> thank you so much. So, mine is not going to be so brief. I did give you a break last time, so give me just gonna have to bear with me. Um Alan Burton, is he still here? >> Thanks for speaking on um Regrow America
or Regrow Valuchia. Um you know, Nancy Galdo has um with the Orman Scenic Loop H has been working really um diligently on Regrow Valuchia. And thank you for
shouting out to Troy Kent because he did get this started. Um, I was hoping that um the commission up here would consider writing a letter or um sending a a resolution of some sort to promote or to
support regrow Valuchia. Um, and that would be a resolution which we're already doing between the city and the county. And I'm not sure exactly how it would be worded, but we have supported it in the in the past and
I would like to continue that support. So I think what I would need from you all is a yes or no if that's something you all are interested in doing formally making that relationship between the county for regrow. >> How does everyone feel about that?
>> I'm good. Okay. Roll yes on that. >> All right. So, I don't know how to really how to direct staff, but we'll have to come up with something um to and we'll send it to to to Troy and the com uh the whole county um council of of
that. >> Would you like us to bring it back to you first before I think we need to do that? >> Sure. Okay. Thank you. Um, also I I also received um a request to write a letter of endorsement for Friends of Tamoka State Park. They're
applying for a wreck and racing district grant. Um they're trying to raise funds. They are a private 5013C. I think that's what it's called. Private nonprofit. And uh they're trying to rebuild their docks. So,
one of the gentlemen, his name is Gordon Whitley Whitley, he had asked if I could write a letter, but upon talking with um legal and with staff, we thought that maybe it would be better if I brought it up to you all to see if you all are
willing to write a letter of support for the friends of the Tamoka State Park in their efforts to um get funds for for their dock. So, they simply just need help getting a grant. >> Yes. They just Well, they they want help. They want you when you apply for
this grant, you put in a lot of letters of endorsement and they're just looking for endorsement from us. That That's something that we would want. >> They're not asking us for money or anything like that. >> I don't see any harm in that. >> I'm good with that. >> No issues. Laws are out paving roads.
>> Oh, dear. >> We know about that. >> All right. >> I'm okay with it, too. >> Okay. Thank you. So, um, it's if you all don't mind writing another, uh, letter of endorsement for that, that would be great. I'll let them know. >> Can you just send it back to us so we can review it and prove it?
>> Do we need a >> I don't think that needs to come back. >> No. Okay. >> Okay. >> Well, >> mayor, that would it's probably not necessary and they just need their deadline is coming up. They're really looking for a letter sooner than later.
is simply should state that um you know this city of Orman Beach endorses their work and what they're doing. >> Okay. Did they did they provide >> they provided a sample letter and I'll be happy to share that with Joyce and she can share it with you all.
>> Okay, that's fine. >> Okay. Um let's see. The other request is, you know, I'm on that storm water management uh mitigation with the county and um I was asked to kind of give an update on that, but I thought was more
important was is um what's happening in within our own city. And so Shawn was kind enough to put together a summary of all our current storm water projects. And I'm would like Sean to be able to
send those to each of you individually. So when you get a um letter or an email from a resident, you you'll know what is going on with that project and and where it's at in the process. Um >> Sure.
>> Can we just put a tab on the website as well so people can just see it? We we had a conversation about this at our at our at our um project meeting this morning. One of the things that I think that we this this gave us a little bit of inspiration that we need to do
take step it up a whole another notch with how we convey the status of some of our projects. Storm water being kind of the focus one right now. Um with all of our capital projects, I think we'd like to do this and put put a tab on our website. So, if you give us a little bit
of time, I think that we're shooting for first of the year. And so, if if if that's a time frame that works for you, um I think that that's what we're we're shooting for is to be able to get project status, you know, storm water, parks, utilities, those those types of projects. That way, people if people
have questions, they have a first place that they can go to and then and then also a contact person, specifically the the project manager that's on staff. So, um I think that it's a good idea to be able to get that information out to people. Obviously, first line of of defense is is you all because I know that you get asked questions. So, that's
one of the reasons why we put that that summary together for Commissioner Tylen. Um, but and I will gladly get that to you. But, um, give us about six weeks here and and right after the first year, we're hoping to have something in in a little bit more formalized form to to be able to do that. But I appreciate your your your your request, Commissioner.
>> Yeah. And thank you, Travis. That's uh that's exactly what the next step was going to be. So to increase our transparency, it just will help every everyone help us and help the residents. Um the other important thing I wanted to share with you is you know FDOT had a
meeting at the casements um regarding the new Nova Road project. I I did attend the project and um FD u we you know FDOT did a really good job gathering all the comments from the residents, but as we know they did the
same thing for the downtown area and it was a debacle and you know a lot of their money was wasted laying concrete and asphalt down and and pulling it back up. So, um, FDA was asked if they would put a pause on that
project and and their time their timeline is pretty quick now, but we have asked them if they'd put a pause if they would please have a conversation with staff in the commission prior to the final design. And that is why we
have the workshop coming up in January. Um, it was wellreceived by FDOT. They want a successful project just like we want a successful project. So um that is a real important workshop that we will
do in January and you know that way we won't waste any FD dot monies and frustrate our residents on that. And I do want to say that they were very receptive when we talked. I'm sorry Kristen. Um
whole list of events you know that we've had the last few weeks. I'm not going to name them, but what what I really want to say is we have an amazing community that's very engaged from the D from the historic society to Main Street to the chamber. Everybody's putting on events.
Everybody's having a good time. A lot of residents are coming out and enjoying the time. And um I just want to say thank you for having such a wonderful engaged community. Um, I was able to, um, go to a DARE program at St.
Brendan's yesterday. It was pretty cool. And I just want to just shout out to officer Rossi and Officer Henderson. They do a really great job with those kids. Uh, do Officer Rossi is going to be stepping back from the DARE program
and entering another role. I don't know if they're going to fill his spot or not, but um you you all would be very proud of the work that they do. So, with all of that, I'll say good night and happy Thanksgiving. >> Thank you. Um Commissioner Sergeant,
>> thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'll start with this week, we welcomed three new police officers to our forest and to our community. Um two of them are very good at baking, I heard, but I haven't tasted anything yet. So just in case they want to bring something for everyone to
enjoy, that might be good. National Night Out and Riverfest were also great events this past week. Um the Orman Memorial Art Museum put on one of the best Veterans Day events I think I've ever attended. Um unfortunately the
weather was a little cold and didn't a little windy, but I think um all the performers and everything were were great there. Um, this past week too, we also had the memorial for police officer Bob Grim, who his end of
watch was Saturday, November 13th, 2004. And um, Officer Grim was uh, struck and killed while he was investigating a motor a minor traffic accident on Nova Road. Um,
I think this just, you know, brings to light how dangerous of a job it is for our police officers investigating a minor accident. And Officer Grim lost his life. And I remember as a kid when I was probably
five or six years old, Officer Grim used to run by the house with his two boxers um unleashed. Uh, they were well behaved though. But I also would give a shout out to Michael Scadero who at the time
worked in the legislature for Pat Patterson and helped to get the road at Nova Road dedicated to Officer Bob Grim. So I think it's very important that we do this ceremony every year and it's great
that his uh widow and daughter and her husband and granddaughter all come out to it and you can tell that it's very much uh appreciated. Um, I also was talking to a resident owner of businesses this past
Friday and he was going around doing a punch list for all of his properties and he turns it into his supervisors on Monday and that's what they work on for the following week. And I'm kind of to the point where I think we need to start implementing
something to that effect. And the reason why I say that is just two examples. the weeds under the Granada Bridge. I don't know who's responsible for them, but last week we had the Riverfest and the embankments
going up that should be cement or covered in weeds. And if that's Yellowstone's responsibility, one more reason why we should look at that contract. Um, I've brought it up before it gets fixed, but then I have to bring it up again
before it get fixed. someone needs to be monitoring this stuff and I don't really think that was in my scope of work um when I took this job, but I'll just throw that out there. The other is weeds at the Orman airport. Drove out there today to visit someone at a hanger.
There's airplanes parked on the taxi and weeds are growing almost up into the airplane. So that's not just a we've had too much rain or we've had, you know, problems with this or that, whatever it may be. To me, it's neglectful.
And um, you know, the Orman Airport, I just got another email as we're sitting here now from a resident questioning, you know, all the flights going over his house. And, you know, we get these complaints daily.
And I know that Claire sent me an email. Maybe she sent it to the rest of y'all that there's some talks with the flight schools. I'm just wondering if maybe we open up seats on the board and I know it would have to be a change, but maybe we open up on our aviation advisory board to
open seats to these flight schools to be able to participate in our aviation advisory board. I don't know if anyone would be willing to explore that and I don't know if they would want to participate, but we got to do more. We got to do more. I mean, I've been
talking about this airport since I got elected and before and the emails we received day in and day out of these residents. We've got to do more. Um, so I don't know if y'all are willing
to explore the option of opening seats. Just something I thought of to the aviation advisory board for some of the flight schools. maybe Phoenix, Sunrise, MB Riddle, whoever is using our airport maybe should have a seat at the table and be able to hear our residents concerns
um because we got to do more. >> I think that's a great idea, but it does have to come to us to add those positions there. There is a process for that, I know. Absolutely. >> But maybe we should look at that,
>> Joyce. So, I'm not sure that a seat on the board is, you know, would you really want them to be a voting member? I think really what you're asking, maybe I'm interpreting what you're asking for is make sure that they're there at the
meetings that they have representation so that questions can be addressed >> perhaps maybe a liazison from each of those companies. >> I'm willing to give them a seat at the board so they can have a seat at the table to maybe
Maybe they'll if they have that personal um I'm trying to think of the word the representation with our city that maybe they'll take it a little more seriously. I don't know. It's just an option I'm throwing out there. >> And maybe what you could also do is is
maybe make it a little broader than that just in case you can't actually get any of them to volunteer to do that. you know, um, a seat that maybe is like in a maybe a larger category and then appoint someone who's interested to, you know, get on the or take that seat since we
don't know. >> Okay. >> Maybe just start with a discussion, you know, and u one of those aviation board meetings, invite them to come and then just see see how it develops from there. >> I'm going to throw a comment in there real quick. I think the only thing I
would be concerned about and the downside is that what is the what is the benefit of them coming right? Because they're doing what they're doing and there's obviously not any kind of um you know uh uh penalties or anything else
for doing what they're doing. So it I say to myself, I own the aviation company. Why would I want to go to a meeting to get people scrambling at me and attacking me? Right? You aren't doing this, you aren't doing that. You know, I I I mean, do we do we even invite these people to come when we have
the meetings? I know they're publicly noticed, and that might be more of a Stephen question, but you know, have we invited them to come and address the concerns that we have as a board currently? Has that been done before? >> You know, years ago, we had a um a kind
of a special, what do we call it? a special workshop, a series of workshops about the aviation and the and the flight schools and and whatnot. And you know, we did gain some traction with the residents there. Um, as I'm sure that
most of you know that we cannot regulate air traffic. That is not something that we're allowed to do. That has to be done by the FAA. I think it's good for them and encourage them to come to the table so they hear the comments firsthand is
what I think I hear Commissioner Sergeant saying and hopefully that they can put faces with names to um understand what these residents are going through. We're looking at upgrading our way of tracking that information from from residents so that
we have a better um response uh to them. We're also, as Claire said earlier, there we're um meeting um with the schools individually to talk to them and uh impress upon them the uh complaints that we're getting from residents. We're
looking for better ways to monitor all of that. So, it's it's a work in progress and you can certainly try whatever you you you want to do to try to improve that process. Well, well, I guess where I'm at is I'm just I'm very frustrated that what we've
been doing isn't working. And I completely understand that when the wheels lift the ground off the ground, it's FAA's responsibility. Noise abatements are voluntary. You can't make them mandatory because at the end of the day, safety comes first when you're in
the air. But having the dialogue with people using our airport and explaining to them maybe change your pattern, maybe if you can fly a different way or just having that open dialogue with anything, whether it's
business or the air schools, the pilots, whatever it is, open dialogue, I think, will solve probably all these problems. Yes, you'll get the one or two that have to fly in, have to fly low, have to I get it. Safety comes first,
but open dialogue, I think, and I'll just leave that one alone for now. Um, I know Mr. Bole brought up Avalon Park. I would like to um have a shade meeting to be able to discuss this item with my fellow elected officials. We've never
been able to talk about it um together. Um I know Daytona had their shade meeting, then voted on something. I just think it's important that we maybe sit down and and talk about it. Um, I know in the past before I was elected, Commissioner Selby at the time asked for
a workshop several times and never got it. The public has never really known much about it. Most people in the community probably don't even know the agreement that was went down in 2004, 2006 with this. Um, we have five
new elected officials up here and we've never been able to discuss something and I just think it's it's time it's time for a um a shade meeting, a workshop, whatever we can do legally. Um, I don't know where everyone else is on that if if y'all are okay with meeting and
>> having an open discussion. >> Hold on one second. And Margaret, can you just comment on that? >> Uh, yeah. Do you do you mean a shade meeting? um particularly just to discuss the settlement offer that was made by Daytona Beach. Is that what you're
talking about? >> I think to have a discussion in general of where we are, where everyone stands on this um >> that that >> I don't know where any of my fellow commissioners are and here we are to make decisions on something that I think it's important that we get in a meet.
>> Yeah, let let's get back to you on that. I don't think shade meeting would be the best way to do that because we'd be very limited on what we could actually discuss in that shade meeting. So to have a broader discussion, I think we'll have to do it in a different way. And um
Joyce, who are you saying? >> I think there's two things here. One is um the settlement offer, if you will, and the other is generally the whole Avalon Park issue is what I hear. So the settlement offer as I understand it would have to be discussed in the shade
meeting >> right well we could discuss that you couldn't actually take a vote on it then but you could discuss it but you know some of the other matters that you're talking about you want to um discuss I think we should do that in a different um different forum and perhaps you know
in a workshop or something along those lines but um because we we'd be very limited in what we could talk about um in in the shape >> I understand I just am I'm getting kind of frustrated because I go back to Commissioner Selby asking multiple times, never hearing anything as when I
was a resident coming and there's really been nothing out there in the public and now we're in litigation. So, I understand we're limited to what we can talk about, but I think it's time for us all to get together and discuss this item. >> So, I don't know if anyone else is on board, but
>> ag and I would like to do it sooner than later. I I just don't think um I I think we need to get together as elected officials and discuss a very important item that our residents are faced with. I mean, you're talking $150 million infrastructure. I think we need to
discuss it as a as as a group as elected officials. I thought we weren't allowed to have a shade meeting with this topic because I know had asked at one point and there was >> well if there are legal issues like a settlement offer that has to be
discussed in a shade meeting. If you want to talk generally about what the contract currently says between Orman and Daytona Beach, you can have that conversation, >> right? Well, you know, the shade meeting you can be you're very limited on on what you can discuss. If we want to do
it in another form, which it sounds like you're more interested in because this is a very complicated matter. It's not a very it's not a trip and fall. It's a you know, it's got a lot of moving parts. It's very complicated. So what what I'm hearing is that you would like to do it in a form where you can um you
know ask a lot of questions and uh really understand you know the nuts and bolts of what's going on you know from the previous you know agreement to where we are you know today and what that would like look like in the future. So let's kind of figure out the best way to
do that and we'll we'll come up with a we'll come up with a plan and a date. >> Okay. Yeah. I would like both. I would like a shade meeting to discuss what was on the table and then a workshop to discuss the else however you'all want to arrange them. I'll leave it up to y'all if everyone else on the dis is okay with that.
>> Just to recap though so I understand it a shade meeting to discuss the settlement offer and then a workshop or another meeting to discuss the nuts and bolts as you described. Right. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, another item I'd like to
bring up is our contract with our negotiation attorney. Over the past six years, we have spent 1 thou $119,921. since 2020. I'd like to know if the um fellow elected officials would be
willing to explore um putting this attorney on retainer for employment matters and using staff, our highly qualified staff to facilitate the negotiations in Daytona Beach.
They're a lot larger than us and they use their HR manager. >> We need legal counsel there with us. We absolutely do. We cannot be in a room when they're represented by legal counsel and we're not. >> Okay. What if they were not? What if we
negotiated where it's um I I think this is something, you know, we're spending $119,000. I think it's something that as elected officials we need to decide um how we want to move forward with this when other municipalities are not having
legal representation there. Um I'd like to hear if my fellow elected officials what what y'all think about this. I mean 119,000 $921. >> I mean we how many people we have on staff? Five. Five attorneys. Four
attorneys. >> Oh. Uh, our legal staff. We have three. >> Three. Okay. And how many does Daytona Beach have? >> Uh, I'm not sure. Honestly, I don't know. >> Yeah. >> They're about double our size.
>> And we're currently short one right now because Ry's out. So, there's only two of you right now. Okay. >> When Daytona um negotiates, do they have their attorney? Uh, does the union have their attorney there? I tend to union
rep and it's their uh the HR director. Holly Hill does very similar. A lot of other municipalities are not using attorneys for negotiations and I think this is just something we should explore. We're spending a lot of money on outside legal. I definitely think we should have him on retainer for
employment related um claims because those are very specific and there's statutes and there's certain things that you really need. But I I just >> so I think I asked this at the workshop and I had did a lot of bit of research where some of the other municipalities
didn't bring in the attorneys until they were at an impass. >> I just think that's something that we should explore. $119,921. And >> I would I would be I would be okay with the negotiating initial NEO negotiating
happening. I mean, sometimes you can get people in a room and have good conversations and and you you figure it out and that's that. But I do like the idea of bringing them back in when there's an impass, you know. But but if but if the union
people have an attorney present, it would be an unfair advantage for us not to have >> so let me pose this a different way. >> They would have to be non represented by an attorney as well. Maybe we finish this current round of negotiations cuz
we're already invested. And then in future ones, I think we need to have the open discussion with however legal we have to do it with the police union, fire union, and all them and say, "Hey, we're going to change our way of doing it. We're going to sit down. We're going
to offer our our HR director or our assistant city manager to do the negotiations, and we're not going to bring attorneys to the table. And we'd ask y'all to do the same thing." um and do that going forward so we're not spending um money, taxpayer money for outside
legal counsel when we have very capable um employees on on staff. That's just where I'm at. So maybe we'll we'll look at this in the future. Um but I think we need to get through this current negotiations and then we can go from there. So just an idea to throw out
there to y'all. Um, I pulled off the resolution that Melbourne Beach did. If you can pass that down to city clerk, please. Uh, regarding establishing a technology advisory board. If you can pass this down, please. Sure. Um, this was
resolution number 2025. So, they just passed this. And I think this is something that we should probably, you know, we discussed it before and instead of reinventing the wheel, here it is. we can just have staff bring this back to us hopefully with any changes that they
need to make. Um uh and and this is really to bring uh an advisory position to help bring to the commission um ways that technology can be utilized
to create efficiencies. So >> I like this idea. Thank you. And >> this is um like I said, they just passed it. Hopefully we don't have to won't create too much work on on staff to to do that. Um on the workshops I did not
>> question one question for you. Um it says on here that uh on the resolution they have five members plus two alternate members. I mean are we okay with that too? >> Yeah, I'm fine with exactly the way it is. I don't think it needs any changes. >> They did it. It seems to be you know
they're up and and moving forward. I don't think I think we just use what other people have done instead of wasting time to do something else. Um, on the workshops, I did not see one. I thought we were going to have one in December regarding the employee benefits
RFP that was going to go out in January and then in March and that was not on that list. >> I I got a question on this. What is the urgency on doing the RFP so soon on that? I mean, didn't we just have an RFP
for the health insurance broker benefits? >> Yeah, I think the RFP was to select uh put it out for um options to be creative because before it was limited to just a specific high deductible. So, this would
be to open it up for creative options that could potentially save the taxpayers money and provide a great benefit to the employees. But didn't we give staff direction on how we want the RFP when before we put it out?
>> We didn't ask. >> That was just for a high deductible. >> But but that's what we currently have though. >> We we bring all the RFPs to the commission for review before we put them on the street. >> But I will say that we have several other workshops that we need to schedule and those include NIDA, RFP for
healthcare, downtown sidewalks and AI committee. So, we haven't we haven't put those on the schedule, but we'll be happy to come back next time with all those on the schedule. >> And I think the current benefits we're not even complete with either, right? I think we're still working on the existing benefit plan with our broker. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, we're not even finished with
that either. You know, so I don't think that's going to happen December. Is that what you're saying? >> Well, I I'm saying that there's a lot of workshops be that we have. We've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight
nine. So, we can we can schedule those as quickly as you like. >> I mean, we didn't want to do this thing so fast, but yet, you know, you you know, are going to abstain from voting. So, I don't know what the urgency is here >> to create a competitive process with
more options than just a high deductible. >> Well, we had a good option. We had $50,000 on the table versus >> that was for a high deductible option. and then and then by by not choosing the $50,000 one, it ended up costing us $41,000 extra this year. >> We saved over $300,000 year after year
on the property casually. Mr. Mayor, >> I don't know about that. I think I did the math on that. It was >> So, what I'm hearing is that you would like these scheduled sooner rather than later. So, what we can do, some of these might not take a whole meeting or if you're willing to come back on an off
meeting day, then we can schedule those on your other Tuesdays. in addition to your commission meeting. >> I would be willing to do sooner than later as well. >> Call for the other one that's going to abstain for voting. >> Thank you.
>> I like the color commentary there. >> Uh with that, I will say happy Thanksgiving. Enjoy your time with family and friends and remember to make phone calls or text to your friends and family to check on them and make sure they're okay. Good night.
Um, Joyce, you okay? >> I think Commissioner I can go back to Commission. >> Okay. Uh, Commissioner L. >> Thank you. Um, I don't have a lot tonight. I think we we heard quite a bit about all of the events that we've been at. Um, and I'm not going to repeat that. We do have to attend a lot of
events during this time of year. I would like to wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving. And I would like to encourage everybody to up here, if you could, when you have the chance, please help out where you can. We are signed up for the basket brigade. We're helping out with a church next week in Georgia. Just anything you can do to possibly
help in the community, that is what I think is important for us to be focusing on right now as well as our families. Thank you and have a good night. >> Thank you, Commissioner Deon. Happy Thanksgiving. Um, I was following some house bills here
that are coming through and one particular is HB 145 and uh I had a chance to talk to the uh city attorney offline about it about our concerns and what this bill is is increases the statutory limits on
liability for tor claims. Um, and so, uh, being that we're self-insured, our, you know, liabilities do have a cap, you know, of about 250,000, something like that. And so, with this HP45, that's going to raise the liabilities a
lot higher on us. And being self-insured, that could be, you know, really something of concern. So, I'm asking the commission here if we can have um at least our legal department or even talk to our our lobbyist of a letter of just explaining their concerns
about it because like I said, we're self-insured and if this bill does pass, um the claims would be much higher and we that could be really uh damaging to our our current budget. So, does anybody in the commission have any objections to that?
M >> Mr. Mayor, if I may, I think it's important to understand through our lobbyists who the sponsors of those bills are and really what's the underlying uh rationale for that before we prepare a letter so that we don't get a file of um
>> fair enough. And I had a chance to look at it too and the same sponsor was uh was the same sponsor last year on the bill and uh you know it looks like it's the insurance people that we love so much that are uh behind this thing. So, uh, if we can at least have, uh, our lobbyist, um, you know, give us some
information to get back to us and whatever they suggest that we can do to support the effort of, um, you know, our concerns with HP 145, that'd be great. >> Okay, >> fair enough. Um, going back to uh, what Commissioner Sergeant said about the flight schools, um, we all get emails
every day, I think, right, with the flight schools and the noise and everything else. And uh I had a chance to talk to Stephen by email because uh he was sharing some evens. That's our airport manager, Steve Lider. Um, and I
thought maybe if if Stephen if you may maybe just come up here and just kind of discuss a little bit about what the implications are just to kind of recap with everybody here with you know the regulation with um these flight schools
the noise abatements and really what our role is here in the city of what we can do to help the residents and and just kind of like where we are with this thing so everybody just is clear and understands. >> Certainly and certainly Mr. Mayor, happy to. Um, there are a lot of limitations that airport sponsors have with regard
to governing air traffic. As Joyce mentioned, we really do not have any authority to govern air traffic. There is legislation or there was legislation specifically the aircraft Nois and Capacity Act of 1990 which was an effort by Congress to balance the interests of
aviation and communities near airports that had to deal mostly with commercial airports jet traffic and there were regulations on like stage one, stage two, stage three jets. You'll hear that if you read the literature. Most of the new jets today are stage four and stage
five. They're a lot quieter than the older jets and so it's less of an issue. The problem with general aviation airports such as ours where we have predominantly small privatelyowned aircraft, what we call piston-powered aircraft with an internal combustion
engine, not not too dissimilar from what's in an automobile. They're a lot quieter than jets. And most people who live near general aviation airports, I grew up in central Pennsylvania, not too far from a GA airport similar to ours.
And if a Cessna 172 or 182 flew over every once in a while, it was really not something that you paid a whole lot of attention to and most people wouldn't have trouble with it. the unique situation we have here in Florida where we are the flight training capital of the world. We have a such a high volume
of flight training that you have people who live near airports who have an airplane flying over every two or three minutes. And so even if it's a small airplane that's not particularly loud, the frequency of exposure to that noise
is the problem. Some people can tune it out, but to others it's kind of like a water torture. And that's the problem with addressing noise abatement. It's a matter of of u personal perception. Some people can tune it out to some people or to others it can be very very troubling.
And since we do not have any direct authority to govern or restrict air traffic because it is a public use airport just like we can't arbitrarily prevent people from driving down I95 or US1. It puts a lot of limits as to what we can do to affect change. Um, there
are also issues that involve traffic patterns and and and and flight performance. Uh, traffic patterns are based on the position of the runway and they can't really be arbitrarily changed. If we were to try to get a flight school to fly a different
pattern, we may end up sending them out over residential areas that previously were not exposed to aircraft noise and that would also be inappropriate. So, as Joyce mentioned, we had a voluntary noise abatement task force back in 2009, and that's something that
I'm very proud of because we did it right. Um, we we spent about nine months uh meeting with residents, meeting with the flight schools. Uh we had a workshop where Ember Riddle brought a couple of aircraft up and pilots and they took the members of the task force up in the traffic pattern so they could see how
things work, why things work. Um, we had a gentleman named Ted Baldwin, uh, who was a nationally recognized authority on aviation noise who came down and conducted a workshop. And so we educated a lot of people about the nature of the
issue and how things work and why things work. And as a result of that process where we engaged with people and educated them and we developed a set of voluntary noise abatement procedures that are legal and actionable. And by putting those in place, we had our noise complaints go down over 70%. And that's
pretty much the way it remains now. Um the complaints that we get, as you all know, are sometimes very resolute, but it's from a relatively small group of folks, and I do my best to address them and answer their questions. But it is a frustrating problem.
So, Commissioner Sergeant uh mentioned in his closing comments about having um maybe some people in the uh flight schools to be on a the the uh board the airport board or you know so that they have a say in just having a discussion. I mean is that are the flight schools
like I mean you must be do you have communication with the flight schools? I mean is there anything that we can do that we can at least invite them to come to a meeting? I don't know if we do we even send the invite. I know they might feel like they're going to walk into a hornets nest. Um, but you know, is there anything that we can do or you you know,
maybe recommend that sort of we can have that discussion and they can hear the residents that do have the concerns and we can maybe try to get this thing under control somehow. >> We can certainly invite them. When we had our noise bandment task force, we had members uh uh from the flight schools, particularly Emry Riddle, who came and participated. So, I think that
they would be open to that. Yes, I do frequently interact with the flight schools. If I get a specific complaint where I think something has been done wrong or inappropriately, I'll report that to the flight schools and they take action. They'll counsel that pilot and let me know what, you know, what the response was. Um, they've been very,
very responsive. They have our noise abatement procedures as part of their standard procedures and so they do expect their pilots to follow them to the extent maximum extent that they can. So, I think that they would work with us. >> Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you, Stephen. >> Certainly. Yes, sir.
Um, with that said though, uh, there was some great festivals that did go on. Uh, the seafood festival was great. I think I saw that they were up 10% on the attendance this year, so that's good to see. Um, the veterans um, uh, groups that put together everything for Veterans Day was spectacular. Um, you
know, Commissioner Sergeant, you did very well in your speech and thank you for your service again. Um, and, uh, with that said, Thanksgiving's coming up. Okay, I'll remember that. Uh, with that said, uh, everybody enjoy Thanksgiving.
Um, don't forget to watch America's team and, uh, before I adjourn, um, city manager did have something to say. >> Yes. So, >> if if possible, um, Commissioner Bryley has a conflict for the 20th meeting in
January with FDOT. So I don't know what the appetite would be to move that meeting to with FOT on the 13th. It's an offcom commission meeting. >> I I would say that I would be okay doing that because part of that's in his district there and I think he should be
there. >> So um what about the rest of the commission >> say move to where? >> To the 13th. >> I'm fine with that. >> I'm available >> Kristen. Oh >> baseball. But I will I can do my best. >> Okay.
>> As long as I can try to figure out it's a baseball night. We will I'll do my best. >> Okay. So, with >> I'll add it to my calendar now, but I will do my best >> with the commission's permission. We'll move that to the 13th. Just the workshop only. >> Okay. Workshop only. Yeah. Okay. >> All right. With that said, uh again,
everyone be safe. Enjoy Thanksgiving. Meeting adjourned.