##VIDEO ID:6zXnac5-qhU## good evening this is our January 21st C council meeting and um with that thanks for coming we have a couple of people that might be on zoom and um Mike pH I'm sure Mike will be joining us soon he emailed me so sick as well well he's going to be on on here so so go ahead have a rule call Mayor aor here councelor Pendergrass here councelor Phillips here councelor spring here Council rer here um first order business is the swearing in of reelected officials which is myself and and u p so start with just moment time come over here stand in the center for me stand over there kind of face them make it look you can see them and everybody else in your camera and I'll stay off camera there we go all right so we're going to do the oath of office for both of you have you raise your right hand for me and repeat after me hi Ry I course i r on N course do you solemnly swear or affirm do you solemnly swear or affirm that I will support the Constitution of the United States I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of Minnesota constitution of the state of Minnesota and that I will discharge Faithfully I will discharge Faithfully the duties of the office of city council the duties of the office of City Council of the city of oronoko the city of oronoko and the county of Olstead in the county of homstead the state of Minnesota state of Minnesota to the best of my judgment and ability to the best of my judgment and ability so help me God so help me God congratulations thank you get the stamped and stuff afterwards all right thank you Paul welcome back you raise your right hand for me and repeat after me I Paul penr hi Paul pagr do solemnly swear or affirm do solemnly swear or affirm that I'll support the Constitution of the United States support the Constitution of the United States the Constitution of the state of Minnesota constitution of the state of Minnesota and that I will discharge Faithfully I will discharge Faithfully the duties of the office of city council duties of the office of City Council of the city of oronoko of the city of oronoko in the county of Olstead county of palad the state of Minnesota Minnesota to the best of my judgment and ability the best of my judgment and ability so help me go so help me go congratulations and we'll get this Stamped Out There you a copy thank you I got a question for you you ever seen the constitution of the state of Minnesota no I don't know that I have far to it so you give me a give me appreciate I hav seen it either I'm sure it exists somewhere there sure it is all right next item is approval of our agenda that is there I've got some amendments yes I've got the one that I handed out uh which is for the fire department grant and I'd like to have it under the fire department and I'd like to put that as number nine I think is about the best way to put that nine for the Department yeah page be on page 36 and then I've also under the fire department I'd like to put another one um which is discussing and I just heard about this for a possible solution for engine number two and we can discuss that and I think the fire department is going to be coming over also but I'll is is this under number nine it's going to be number 10 number 10 under the fire number two yeah number nine is a grant is the Grant and number 10 is is the engine number two and then uh I'd also like to put under water um um it's the water deal through I'd like to put that under um put oh uh it would be under um Department's committees it would be underwater and Sewer it would be number five and that's for drinking water or noal drinking water so um the engine number two or loal drinking water there's nothing in our packet do you have something to submit to that or is it just uh no it's it's just a I guess a way to go type deal that there is that was given to us for the drinking water is that something is that something that was at the uh water and ser committee meeting no this this one came from uh Minnesota community these okay Quinn Jacobson okay and and what there was on on the good job that Kane did but I just wanted to give him a shout out for that and the fire engine number two what is that subject about um we have a possible offer that there is on on number two okay and also uh giving it out to another party so we'll discuss that when that comes out and I want to know party department will probably be here to talk about otherwise I'll talk about a sharing question or it's just to bring up if it's worth discussion or not so it's a discussion item yeah hopefully a brief one then yeah oh yeah okay I make a motion to approve the meeting as amended with the items our department grant number nine Under Fire Department the U engine number two under water under Fire Department number 10 and under water sewer item number five we not supping the water FL second yeah well had three had three it right yeah second any other comments seeing none all those in favor signify saying iOS that's approved next it is our public forum the city council welcomes and encourages participation from community members please keep in mind your comments must be pertinent in City businesses and must adhere to data priv rules no employees Ed please do not expect action from the council this evening regarding your concerns to address the city council during public form please step up to the podium state your name address and fill out the form provided um if those have been provided you can bring those up to me as well or maybe Jason hasn't the forms just bring those up I'll get for anybody else anybody else speaking okay there you go oh thank you I'm sorry back speakers will be recognized only once it'll be timed begin speaking when the green card is raised by Jason a yellow card indicates you have 30 seconds left and the red card indicates you've reached your three minute limit and then stop so with that we open at 640 and for the Adam first yeah go first what's that it doesn't matter um green card I don't think it'll be three minutes uh hi guys um I'm one of the Eda volunteers and I I learned at our last Eda U meeting that funding was cut for the Eda and I'll let Jamie talk more about about that but when I think about about uh with my citizens hat you know as a member of oroko I would like nothing more than things that stay just as they are driving home every day from work and having the deer hop into the fields and you know that's way nicer than driving past construction and concrete and all these things right I would prefer that uh but I also think that rationally we can't avoid growth growth is coming to our community regardless of who's sitting in these chairs unless one person owned the vast majority of the land change is coming growth is coming so uh I guess I just want to make the point today that I think it's very important that we Embrace growth as it's coming uh hopefully we have good working relationships with developers and and I don't necessarily want to Advocate or think we should be trying to accelerate growth but as growth comes I think we need to make wise decisions um and I also would like to to throw up that I think it's important for in the coming years for the city council mayor Etc to identify Where The Heart of the community is going to be Where Do We Gather where do we hang out where do we spend time is it going to be new and up here or is it going to be just north of the bridge and and more character field Etc and then wherever we decide to put our heart uh I feel like the city should probably work on selling some land acquiring some land for whatever needs identify what needs you have what do we need land for and do some level of uh get rid of the stuff you're not needing to fund the acquisition of stuff that you do want for decades before so that's all I got Jamie Ry hello I'm Jamie Ry I'm at 990 Cedar Point laning Southeast um I also sit on the Eda board uh our board members prepared a letter that we'll be submitting but I wanted to read that today um and then also have a few comments to share with you as well so dear members of the Oronoco City Council on behalf of the Eda excluding the mayor and Mr Printer grass we writing to express our disappointment and concern regarding the recent decision to reduce eda's operating budget by 50% the decision was both unexpected and deeply impactful especially during a pival time of growth and opportunity in our community Eda is approved work plan which reflects our Collective goals and priorities for fostering sustainable Economic Development was developed with transparency and collaboration how however during the budget discussions the city council member that represents the Eda misrepresented our work and scope leading to a misunderstanding of our contributions and critical role we play in oron opal's progress this mis misrepresentation has not only eroded trust but also underminded the eda's ability to effectively serve the community at this time we respectfully request that the mayor make a recommendation to reassign this representative to another border commission as the city council support this decision this step will ensure an accurate and constructive representation of the eda's work moving forward we would also like to acknowledge the incredible work of Rebecca Charles at at Ceda she has secured multiple grants and her expertise has been exactly what orac Orono needs to advance our goals her efforts Have Been instrumental in driving progress and ensuring the success of our initiatives furthermore we would like to invite city council and pnz commission to a joint work session with the Eda this session would provide an opportunity to clarify eda's work plan discuss shared goals and align our efforts to support orocal growth Together We Believe open communication and collaboration are really vital to our mutual success and we hope that this session can help rebuild trust and understanding while we understand that the current budget cannot be changed we urge C Council to reconsider the EDH funding allocated during the next budget cycle the decision to reduce EDH budget will significantly impact our ability to carry out our approved work plan and support key initiatives that benefit our community finding a path forward ensures oropo continues to thrive and we hope we can do this together we thank you for your attention and um ongoing conversation I also wanted to bring up to this group that we've had two Eda board members now resign because of the actions of council um both with removal at sunny and now we just had our next um member resign this week due to the 50% reduction so it's the board is really working hard to try to work with our community we've held open Forum comments we've brought people together meet as much as we can with community members we have great dialogue here in this room and it's really important that we think we to together we hope that you would like to continue work together as well thank you before I go oh okay Logan you want to go first yes he's on Zoom uh Logan if you want to unmute yeah can you hear me now yes we can okay perfect um I wasn't uh prepared to talk in this portion of it um I was understanding that this isn't a public hearing but that the email that I sent on to Mike flarity regarding Linda King's uh Gold Rush and her partner Gold Rush project um I think you kind of know where we're coming from as far as next steps sent out an email that kind of explained the you know kind of the expectations and the terms of the development but really wanted to hear from city council here tonight on if the terms are acceptable from that email that we that we laid out and um if they really do support we can get some kind of General support from from the Council on if they would support the um the land use plan Amendment change to B2 along with the zoning District change we understand that there's a process that we have to go through um but we really have been working with the city now for it'll be two years in April and we don't feel like we've gone any further along than we than we were you know almost two years ago so it'd be real great if we could kind of iron these things out Lindon Lindon and our partners are making a big investment um the city is going to to generate a lot of property taxes from this development we want everybody to be happy and uh really think this will be good uh for the city of oronoko for for many years so um still want to work with you guys and get this figured out but we need to know if you'll support those terms and if you'll support the land use plan Amendment and zone change right thank you Logan Joe okay good evening everyone uh first of all I'd like to recognize and welcome Lee and LOL which are also partners with Linda on Gold Rush Crossing uh lee came drove here from Omaha and L came from Marshall so they put some miles on to be here tonight um it's a huge project just like uh Logan just said we've had several meetings with oronoko we've had overwhelming support with Eda uh city council members uh pnz meetings uh Planning Commission meetings and most importantly the uh community of oronoko and especially the neighborhoods that are uh close by to the project um the zone change we're not really concerned about as much anymore after the last meeting uh because that's going to fall in line with everything that's close by to us anyway um and we want that zone because we want it the same as the uh west side we want the East Side the same as the West Side the the east side is currently uh R2 and multifamily uh we want to do something different than that that we've already proposed to the city uh we do not want to go into multif family and we don't want to go into trailer courts or anything like that so that's the reason for the zoning change um everybody else uh wants the project to go and uh so do we and uh we want to know uh soon if the uh city council wants the project to go and to help us make it go with you and work closely to get this thing done and get it done in a timely fashion um I do see uh the last thing is is I do see that we're on the agenda where did I just put that oh here it is uh on a City attorney and city engineer uh cost reimbursement and security agreement we have no idea what that is um so the vote should probably not come before the discussion um I asked Jason before the meeting started what it was and he didn't have time to explain it he said so hopefully it's explained to me before it's brought up thank you so much thank you Joe than Joe second call for public forum uh good evening uh Grant coer 1240 Ceder Drive Southeast for oh yeah IE talking um this one seems pretty trivial compared to everybody else's discussion points tonight but I do have a question about the accuracy of the water bills that came out for the month of December um I'm sure questions that probably come in Jason to City Hall something like that we've seen it on Facebook book um this is the first meeting since then so least one of my public one my comments public but from November to December our household saw 45% increase in our cost for the water bill now I don't keep track of the usage on a month-to-month basis but that is the highest increase that we've seen I think going back to April with a change over halfen with the seic system the highest increase we'd stand for that point is 19% so usage could have went up that being said in the winter months usage usage tends to go down so I have a tough time believing that from November to December we had that big of an increase in the US in our household especially when we gone part of the holidays so my ask is that if somebody can look into that whether it's something with calculations something's going on but it did seem like a pretty significant increase from from one month to the other so thank you there was um did you these postings on Facebook saw something on Facebook about autopay which we do not use so that was the only thing I saw so Final Call for public forum with that third and final call we'll close at 651 so um to our agenda we have our departments and committees and and your packet report where the county monthly report comments I have one question so I again I know they show numbers but is there a way for them to track mileage of how they're patrolling in the city so just personally I've seen them sitting and and doing stationary traffic but just wanting to make sure that they're actually patrolling so there might be an ability to get some mileage logs so that they're in the city and around the city versus sitting um that's a good question they don't track that can they for my experience in law enforcement that's not something that would be tracked um I do know they there's been increased what you're seeing sitting running stationary because we've asked them to from citizens talking about speed in certain areas so we've tried to get them to increase their presence in in certain areas um but we also do know I do know they drive around and and hit up different spots but fortunately there's not an easy way to to to track that so it's not something they would ever track the other comment we've heard from the deputies is that sometimes you see them sitting uh um and when we asked about the question said well they're just in some cases they're filling out reports the actions they did do so alerts whether or not yeah I want to make sure that they're patrolling versus just sitting right we pay a lot of money for for them to to keep our community safe and making sure that they're not in their usual spot um I think is is going to be key as we move forward so maybe we just keep that as a a conversation and keep that open something to keep in mind recently I've noticed them up and down Porta Avenue more yeah more than they have in the past so I kind of noticed to more more of a presence so when they they come in regular to our office so just come and talk to him just make do the speeding Council or speeding so y I also saw on that too that there were 11 traffic stops also last month which I think is is good that they're watching that so I think that's awesome what are the community service numbers on there what that what are the community service numbers represent on there says eight represent coming into City Hall and checking with staff to see if there's anything questions or stop businesses maybe as well okay go on to the next item public works so we um the motion is to what Kane is looking for is to approve this is budget item that we talked about last month to approve the city administrator Public Works to proceed with proposed hiring process timeline with the full-time Public Works assistant so with that I make a motion that we allow that process to commence I had a a comment too on that on reading the the job description oh I'm sorry I'll do a second I'll make a second for discussions comment Jim yeah um when we were looking at this stuff and I I think it's it's it's pretty well done on everything that's there on how you put everything down K uh the only thing I'd like to push it is is to see if we can't find you know um somebody that that's got either a d or a C license that there is for the sewer plant to hire them that would kind of give us a jump forward on what we're trying to do with peoples coming up and it's going to be firing in about uh 2 years now but I think that that would be good if we could find that and put that out and kind of look at that as a requirement you know or you know suggestion preferred qualification I guess is where I would put it but that was a comment that I wanted to make off yeah I understand that this was that Kane was wanting to hire somebody entry level for for this position but I'm kind of wondering if we shouldn't go with upper level somebody can run the plant you know eventually you know we got a 200 some thousand year contract to to cover Sewer Service to cover the sewer plant and we get somebody in there that can work with that is that three three City people you know I think we should have somebody other than other than just uh the Public Works director running the sewer plan he's got other jobs to do around town and I think we should you know we get a person to fill that position and be working with I'm sure be working with the public work director back and forth we end up with two people we and we're done with the uh people's the people's contract I think that's where we the direction we should be going look to fill that that's going to take a lot longer to fill the find somebody to Mo for the summer um yeah it's a good comment I think we we talked about this I think in December too at the budget time this idea was that was to replace the person we missed or refill a place I guess with it um and that was going to help allow the Public Works people so they can rotate somebody to get ours you know like so I think that's to change to look for something like that I think would obviously affect our hourly rate and what we budgeted um so I think we really just I think my personal opinion I think we need to fill the position that we have open right now for the qualifications that has been submitted well the thing that there is Ryland and I I hear what you're saying um I think we need to be looking down the road though for what we're looking at at that position and this last you know year we haven't had anybody go over there and peoples hasn't been really open to do work on training and and allow people to spend time there and that's been the problem that the is you know so it almost looks like we'd have to come up with somebody who's got a license they'll be able to start with that just as this is coming up two years from now think this discussion again I know it's later on the agenda but but bringing it towards you know the Personnel committee or the the newly named Committee of making sure that we have a strategy for some of these I think is going to be important then we're just hiring to fill based on need and having that long-term strategy so we're thinking about what is the need need how do we upskill how do we get people the training that they need to so they stay here um and do some of that like succession planning I think is going to be key um as well I know that that doesn't solve this this need um but my hope is that that could be something that we could work forward of really having a strategy in mind so are so are you kind of say to set this aside till we work through that Strate that work through that other I mean I again I think if if there's a need for spring and I don't know how long it would take to get someone in I mean we're probably close to that but I think you know as we think about bringing someone in and and making sure that we have good plans um and we're we're up training and we're upskilling things I think that's going to be the important and maybe they're there and they're going to work just fine and we can do that with the right person um but I think we should think about strategic um conversations versus just kind of filling a hole I think Jason for Kane has proposed his timeline and it pretty much is predicated by us making the decision tonight so I don't see like we have time to develop another strategy or another job description that would include something related to a class B or C operator and not really the inchant of what Kane is asking here for so I think we should move on what Kane is proposing with his timeline and the job application to help to the staff I mean looking at at the timeline and and K did a really good job about putting this down he's got um like the applicant first day is would be March 31st you know even if we're put off a month that's would be April which I think would still fit in if we really want to take a look at that strategically with what's going on and see if that would make sense I think we might have 30 days to play with so and then not put anybody behind on what's going on I I think that looking more in depth like uh Marie had said it makes a whole lot of sense on what we're looking at fill that position yeah I would say the timeline itself is is U it's pretty aggressive and you know we don't have a guarantee we're going to get applicants right away we've known that in the past we had to repost it and this continue the process so that makes it stretch out even longer so I Jane would you have any comments you like to share with us yeah yeah so a couple comments you know this is an appr it's approved position for 2025 we're backfilling a position so it's not a new position we're not recreating a position uh to the Strategic plan for hiring someone down the road uh to fill that wastewater treatment facility role and the license there uh you know we've got a couple years before we get there so if we hired a a wastewater operator today and they're not allowed to work at the plant because of the current contract it's not really benefiting us any I don't think if we hired an a operator or a d or anyone between I don't think peoples is going to allow that that uh partnership to happen so so peoples is in charge of what's that you say peoples is in charge who's the city hired no no it's just they're not allowing us to gain hours at the facility they're managing their work they're not letting them they're not letting us want to train right right so what's going to happen here at the threeyear Mark uh you know two years and three months from now right hopefully we can hire an a operator and have a public work staff that can rotate out there but we need to have a builtup staff to allow that well one of the issues is is if they're not going to let an a operator or a B operator mirror them around the plant out there they're not going to let anybody else do it either and they haven't and they haven't they haven't let it do it yep so hopefully when we go to look for that a operator that signing operator that will be our how we construct that contract right so what so what will happen Happ is none of the current Public Works employees will be able to start learning what goes on at the plant until peoples is gone correct wow okay that's what this Council had decided on though well the the previous Council sorry so history kind of repeats itself here you guys so we we're going to kind of get ourselves into an Eddy here and just be spinning unless we can just stay on track so so what I've proposed tonight is to get back up to uh uh uh respectable Staffing level right uh like I said it was approved it's not a new position we're backfilling and the idea to get someone started in March or April uh we can get some training done whether it be you know signing in a time card filling out a time sheet getting your benefits figured out out getting the lay of the land figuring out our properties 22 miles of pipe in the ground you know 80 some Acres of Park to maintain I mean it's a lot so to just have somebody start and say here you go I I just think we need to get them on board get them acclimated to our equipment our processes and get them trained up and be ready when we when the parks take off here which is April into May so I don't think I'm asking for something out of the ordinary here I think this is a very doable one question yeah do we have a no May again this year's no okay we did last year was two years ago we did that that was terrible was a mistake wasn't it yeah no I mean I I see what you put in I like I said what you put down here I thought was good I was just looking down the road and trying to so I think respectful I think too you know another point I'd say is that it's going to take an employee six months to a year to get comfortable to be able to take on things the wells you know there there's licenses we want them to have I I think six to 12 months isn't a uh out of line for getting someone confident and knowledgeable so once again I think this is a reasonable ass so please consider it a lot of the stuff in here minimum qualifications you're already talking people coming and already pre-licensed when they before they get here right hopefully hopefully in the past we haven't had many many candidates and so we we really need to open up you know just the time that we're we're having this opening out there but hopefully we got people that that come and and turn in their application and we can get them interviewed uh we'll see okay thanks King yeah thanks why you just hang around yeah okay so um if there's no other discussion um call for the vote all those in favor of the Public Works assistant posting signif I be saying I I oppose appr thank you okay next item is a water and sewer and we have a proposal for increase in water and sewer utilities so um water and sewer committee met and uh we're recommending a uh a rate of 10% for sewer for sewer and water for sewer utilities for 2025 and that will be in part of our Fe discussion or fee approval back later in the agenda so but um I if you want to give some background of what you come up with we% increases for what's in the water and sewer minutes yeah it is uh Jason and I have been working closely on this one uh one thing we found out without uh after losing certain city staff you know we don't have a very good grip on our water and sewer utilities we just don't uh we haven't really tracked them and analyzed that data and I think there's Improvement there uh I could ask any one of you right now what's in the water fund and I would get five different answers and I want to go away from that I want this Council I want this leadership I want everyone to know what's in these accounts and be honest and and uh open to our residents right and have the water and sewer utilities pay for themselves and not be subsidized by the general fund and city tax dollars so with that I I think it it's a it's a little bit of a drastic change this 10% uh but there are reasons behind that we are within uh the other surrounding cities we're we're in line with their rates um how we have our rates structured it's uh pretty standard so yeah if you haven't if you were looking through the package you would have seen what this increase was for sewer and water but it's on page 228 and I can just we looked at 10% we looked at 5 10 15 and 20 3,000 gallons and 5,000 gallons are the two figures we looked at which line are you on here Island sorry which lines are you on here page 228 that's SE 15 does a good job BR page 15 does a pretty good job of of explaining what it is on the 10% under 3,000 and 5,000 you're looking at those gallons for toal sewer and and utilities I will say one thing in our discussion that we had at Water and Sewer also was we only have basically nine months of operating data at this point in time and so we're making our decision off for the nine months of what we see and this increase you know which is actually when you look at the dollars and sense is is pretty minimal um it'll give us a year to take a look at that with the 10% it doesn't mean that every year it's going to be going up by that percentage we just need to have a little bit more information to be able to make the right proper judgment next year on what makes sense to be able to be at a break even Point okay so right right 2025 is going to be a big year for tracking these expenses you know water and sewers never paid for gas and a pickup or maintenance on a pickup right it's been very minimal what those utilities have paid for so we need to track that better as a city uh and not just me everyone we need to just be cognizant of our expenses and uh transparent with our expenses we're still short in our hookups though right for the grinder that uh we've got uh 32 more water connections and 50 sewer connections so that will help out the budget okay so far those so far there's no pilling on those uh correct we we've got a couple that will be getting penalized here but uh you know may is essentially the deadline well just quick reference for everybody that's here that doesn't have that in front of them a water increase a 10% water for 3,000 gallons is $3 a month 5,000 gallons is 376 a month um for sewer 3,000 gallons is $371 increase $55,000 is $477 so if you get combined sewer and water 3,000 gallons would be 6.77 5 gallons is $853 per month per month yep so one of the comment about that you know the way we've been doing business now we don't really know until the Auditors do their reports at the end of the year which is usually six months after we approved the budget and um maybe have one year out of the last eight years that I've been with it that we saw we were above the line above the line is what PFA looks at because public facilitator those are the people we borrow the money from so they like to see balanced budget been very accepting of our minus 35 $25,000 deficit so by following revenue and expenditures this coming year and with this increase we're hoping that we'll be able to strike a good balance so we can keep that balance and with added on people that's going to help but we also have chemicals too that go along with that but we can track those expenses so um it is something different than we've done in the past but at the same time I think it's a modest increase that's really going to help us from a strategic standpoint of how we go forward so I think we just need to be aware of that we do need to we do need to build up the reserves in the water fund you know we've got 400 water meters that need to get swapped out here in four years so who's going to pay for that are is this is the water utility going to pay for that is are the residents are you know who's going to I mean that's that's a big number that's coming and that's a that's something that we know that's coming what if the w goes down what if the tower somebody shoots it I don't know I mean what what happens the the emergencies so I think we need to uh be better prepared in that in those utility funds to uh to handle the future what's in the reserves fund now you know good question so and also a part of this one too Kane is if you take a look at what our chemical budget right now we're up at 143% over which will help justify why we need to have that increase and also you know which is a total 119% total from what we had budgeted so those are also costs that are going up that needed to be addressed in that 10% increase okay good discussion we'll Circle back to it later yeah so that's what you're going to vote on tonight with the fee schedule amendment I think are those numbers in the fee schedle uh yes yeah uh Joe um we had just a quick update about a session work session of um for reviewing cost yeah that was just something that we talked about in December we're going to do it in January but the agenda's kind of jam-packed uh so we decided we wouldn't do it tonight but maybe at a work session at sometime in the future if the council wants to pick a date I'd be happy to work towards that so um up to you guys but I think we'd like to do this as we can I I think that today is a pretty busy here today I think taking a look and especially as as swamped as Jason's been too so right you know but I would like to do that as soon as we can you know I think it'd be good so yeah and you know having it in a work session setting would be be good but you guys got to pick pick a date if you want to do that now whenever okay next item was an update the water and sewer consent agenda along with the U people service operating maintenance report Ryland if you I might just give the council a real brief update I that people's service operation maintenance report uh operations report is in the packet um there are some interesting things in that uh report uh there has been some operation issues out there uh first there was a a two-month period where the boxers limit wasn't being met and the operator did find the issue with that um and has corrected that uh most recently with the cold weather there has been some issues meeting the nitrogen limit and we've been Stant has been asked to help with this as of early January as as well as xylm so we've been kind of giving some uh feedback mostly xylm xylm is the spr manufacturer um and providing some feedback on how better to operate the system to be able to meet the limits and so one of the things that might be coming here is doing some receding of the bacteria at the plant to get more bacteria with the cold weather um bacteria is not growing as fast as it should be and that's one of the reasons that they're having trouble meeting the nitrogen limit so if you want more information as we get it we can share that but I wanted to tell you you let you know that there are some you know issues or reasons for concern or people should be aware of it um and um like I said we were just kind of made aware of it over here over the last month we've met with the operator we've met with the BCA and met with syum um looks like it's an operational issue um but we'll have to continue to work through that do we have a place to get more seed [Music] material that information I just found out today that it was one of the things that xylm is recommending and so uh I did talk to Herb the operator and he's reaching out to a few different places but the primary place place would be the city of Rochester they provided the seed initially so um just kind of want you to guys to know there's there's uh some challenges there that need to I think you were were stating too in the water and sewer meeting that it was temperature related with a lot of that stuff too or well temperature makes it tougher you have to change how you operate the facility and so you just can't go you know continue a water temperature tough was much cooler than what normal the biological processes slow down with with the cold water and so you need to modify how you operate the facility and the different cycle times that they can run and different ways they can you think them little buzs would eat more in winter time stay warm it's the opposite so anyway just want you to know uh we're trying to work through that with the operator but uh um there's some challenges here what are the acceptable limits for like your nitrogen and your phosphorus I see your graphs but there's no like uh they they are the limits are kind of on the back page but I would agree it's difficult to read uh the nitrogen limits 10 milligrams per liter and the phosphorus limit is .4 milligrams per liter but there are also Mass limits um so um the information there is a difficult to read yeah I think it is it's difficult for me to read so we were asking for them to put the total nitrogen on the chart as well we just did that as well so we're trying to get it improved a little bit thanks Joel yeah you're saying the nitrogen should be at five or it should be below 10 that is the Target and so kind of look at back at the past there's times they've met it there's times they they haven't and of course we need to meet it not it and certainly there is a learning curve with the new facility and new operators um unfortunately that testing equipment we us purchased is helping making making it react sooner to it that was a good investment and and I think the operator appreciates it from all the feedback I've gotten yeah so for Mar and Daniels benefit the first three months PCA gave us mpca gave us 90 days okay to get down to the 10 limits so that wise sure a bunch of hookups between August and September and so whole bunch of extra waste going into the plant uh there there is extra flow kind of metering up all the time but that really shouldn't affect your limit there's more than enough capacity there for flow it's just biological has to catch up to it guess well but youve got to kind of plan for it right and so yeah do they get real time alerts so like when something is like if they're testing today can they see that it's over 10 and then act on it or or they do it just once a month no the testing equipment that they have allows them to send tell where they're at at that given point uh but they do send out uh samples for certified test results on a monthly basis and that's what they report thank you yep and there's some more details on page 22 if you really want to get into some some details that are on there that's made my not okay next item was an ad like Jim regarding a drink and Water Report yeah I I just um I got this and uh thank you Kan for the good job that you've been doing on on the drinking water that there is because there was an article I guess that the city of aroko is being recognized for its efforts to protect its drinking water recently the city became a finalist for the 2024 Dave nean Source water protection award so have we heard anything more on that or uh we're just finalists that's that's it but I it's it's pretty good to be finalist I think that that's awesome and so you know congratulations on that Kane Planning and Zoning is next we have an update steering committee uh we've got a meeting coming up the first part of Bey do you want to talk about that and so for Planning and Zoning for WSB with our steering committee we uh have done a series of half an hour work sessions working to get through codes so we are again rewriting all of the zoning code is what we've been looking at working on we are through a big chunk of it we're on the end stretch of getting the draft ready so that it can go to the public for public hearing for Council to take a look at that and so we are having another steering committee session February 5th now is the date we're going to make this a longer one we're still going to do it in half hour chunks but just try to knock out a bunch more of it so that we can get it out to everybody because we do want to have the public have at least a good month two months 60 days 90 days to look at this get this through Council but the end goal is to have a city code for all of the zoning so the top 10 things that folks want to have done can just be a quick easy call to City Hall to the zoning administrator and I want to add a garage or I need to do a driveway or I just want to reru my house so the top 10 things that people want to do whatever it might be should be fairly easy for normal citizens to figure out and talk to city and we should 95% of the time the code should be able to answer all this the 5% of the time is when it would show up at planning and zoning or a city council or have to go out for additional information I mean that that's the end goal but with that February 5th we're looking 12:30 to 4 hoping to get through a big chunk more after that we'll decide if we need to do another Workshop or a couple more half an hour sessions but with that the uh we've got the zoning side looked at the engineering firm they have Engineering Services one thing you may want to think about is when we go through and rewrite all this code it's probably just in good good practice to maybe have say I have't attorney take a look at that just to make sure that we're covering ourselves on the legal side everything should be good but it never hurts to have that extra set of eyes there just help protect the city on that side of it I do know that we've got our attorney here for the city but I know there's a lot of stuff going on as well League of Minnesota cities also offers some of that same kind of service so that could be something that we may reach out to them to see as well either way it's going to be some billable hours I'm sure but if we can get somebody who specializes in that maybe it may save a few hours down the road beyond that I do know we have that meeting that got scheduled we do have a couple openings that I had asked to have that put on the website and we still need to get that put out there on the website so we have one person that's going to be resigning we have another opening um so we do need to get something posted there but I don't have control of the website to be able to do that and I know I had emailed on that back in December but we still need to get that out there so just point question about the the steering committee you're still looking for a March April completion of the whole code um March April we should have our draft done that's then at that point it has to go through Council so however long it's going to take that process to get through you guys but we will have the draft done I'm hoping by April okay but we've got a lot of community members that are actually on the steering committee that are not on Planning and Zoning not necessarily we just try to have a broad view of different age ranges different occupations different were some working some not working just different a good broad section of our Community to represent citizens so yep all right thank you very much all right next item is a um a resolution variance lot at mid1 51 Minnesota Avenue Southwest I this is a resolution lot split variances to lot width and lot Area 51 Minnesota a South with propos conditions and findings Bill had a report it's on page 23 recommendations chance to read through it for approval and then thanks Phil for being was on page 32 you want to go through it um well um Mr Mayor and and Council the request is pretty straightforward it's a lot split uh as you can see from the diagrams in the report uh this was two Lots at one time they were going the other way and now he's uh asking for a 90 degree lot split also as you can see it's very similar to the lot sizes uh in that part of downtown oronoko so it's very much in keeping with the character of the area uh and so uh with that uh the uh the request I believe is is straightforward and reasonable the Planning and Zoning commission also recommended approval of this and as noted uh the resolution in your packet 202 25-3 uh would uh approve this lot split and the variance uh I'd be happy to answer any questions if there are any questions all in favor signify by saying I I by roll call that immediately get Zone to uh yeah because it's it's historic business P 33 3 about 33 is the3 is the do the roll call vote I will say that it was brought to my attention I have the wrong data on that resolution it'll get fixed for the final for the signature it's got 2024 in the top adopted I didn't get the year corrected but we'll get that fixed before it gets signed so all right roll call Mayor course hi Council Phillips hi councelor pentagraph hi councelor spring hi councelor rorer hi next it is fire department we have several action items of planning training so U first one has move to a motion to approve training expenses for Caleb Caleb and Yan $52 within the State Fire Marshalls class January 25th 26 in man make a motion we approve that I second that comments seeing none all those in favor signify saying I I next item is a motion to approve training for Dan and Johan in the amount of $760 for attending a Minnesota State Fire Marsh State Fire Marshall class February 7th and 8th in Virginia Minnesota can I make a motion we approve that than comments seeing done all in favor signify by saying I next item is a budget item for purchasing six pagers three for the fire department three for the First Responders for $6,000 9 this is part of the 2025 budget expense make a motion to approve y any questions just say real quick again um I that fingered the numbers the individual price for these is [Music] $11.50 um not 1,150 so that will be corrected but the overall bu the overall price should still be the same for this $609 no questions all those in favor signify by saying I close approved next item is for ordering six radials 3,00 three for the fire department three for fire responders for 28,000 8.72 and a budget expense covering that so make a motion to approve second second see no questions all those in favor signify by saying I I [Music] iose approved um mayor yes um the the video the zoom video is not working we can't see the council there we go thank you thank you next item is a turnout gear for new fire dep Matt Arnold for $2,920 25 which is budget expense make a motion to approve okay questions seeing none all those in favor second by saying I post it's approved approve a new applicant Nick Timmerman this is for the fire department yes make a motion to approve second questions seeing none all those in favor sign by saying I monthly minutes in the coun consent agenda and Jim yeah ad number nine um we've got have uh been granted if we turn around if it uh complete our application of $40,000 that's going to be coming um from a grant so I just we I know that Jason's working on that too that we need to get that build out in our $40,000 little bit of time there but yes right next um Spire relief discussion number 10 sorry uh Goan you want to talk about engine too sure real real quick if I can go back to number nine um with $440,000 Grant um the state put out $4 million to help departments replace aging radios the AR it's called the armor gr because that's the system that we're own the armor system 900 mehz um so there were there was $4 million in the bucket they were trying to have a span over two years um it got chewed up in one um there like 10,000 people that went for this Grant and only a couple hundred got it we were one of those so we've done the fire department has done our part in writing the grant now the grant the armor system Grant people from the state came back and said do you still want this Grant and we said yes what do we have to do and it's city has to log into the um Minnesota state Grant application website and put our information so that's what we're waiting for and then the funds will be released to us and we can purchase radios so sooner than later that's my understanding I know it's on Jason's list to do so okay great good just want to make sure on that you want to talk about engine two so old engine two the one that's sitting out by the city shop right now um we were approached by a citizen if and he would like sit from us then donate that to um some of the areas hit by the hurricane down in North Carolina in that area because they don't have any trucks so he would purchase it from us and then in turn donate it down there so when we put it out to auction we were hoping for $10,000 um but he he made the offer of $5,000 we put the city city property comments to you guys if you want to accept that is there any W room I mean 5,000 seems like it's is such I mean I know he's trying to do the right thing but I mean half seems like we could have a little more negotiation on that we can ask um what what number would would pleas you guys what what would you guys what are you guys looking for obviously 10,000 maybe put the difference if you give you know 75 you know but you know we love 10 but maybe we can get 7500 10 10's off the low we tried and we haven't been able to get rid of it what would you do with that money you got City's money it's the city's money but wouldn't it go to fire I mean because it's engine okay okay Yan what steps have you guys taken to actively try and sell that thing um a couple different auction houses um and think we had it online too as well and I was I suggested did last month we figure out a way to get on Public Surplus but Jason's been busy so I didn't want to disturb him and set up time to come up here and take time to sign to a website the city can set up an account it can be be put on an auction across the country it's called publicsurplus.com I'm totally I mean we're up for whatever and it covers 50 states I think you guys can set up that account and as long as they're okay with that I'm okay with setting that up and getting that going cuz you guys are running the you know you've been posting all the other stuff so you that a try first before you know and then that way this is was a nice thought but if we could get get 10 it would be thing it is it gets that site set up you know I know the uh fire department is crowded for space if there's equipment that you have in the way over there that could be auctioned off too but we should probably know that first before anything else goes up there we can do that we can set up the account I'll ping Jason for any okay information public surplus.com uh I'll get a hold of you Johan I have I have her information at home who I talk to and the day the day that the day that she called me Jason was busy doing his trying to get payroll and stuff done so okay I'll I'll get it to you I'll get it to I'll get it he knows where you maybe you just mention that to the gentleman maybe he'll reconsider his offer too if we're going to continue to look sure we can do that or or he may want to buy it off the line want buy it off thank you right thanks I think we can get better than that next item is a Fire Relief discussion um at our December meeting and I think somewh November meeting too we talked about conducting a forensic unit audit I'm sorry um in your packet is a couple items for um coup estimates two companies yeah it had the one start out which was the ABDO okay and Daniel you had asked for another one and so I went and researched another one to be able to put up there which is Eddie Bailey um looking at that just as an overall between the two they're they're basically the same price you know on on what there is and what they're going to do so um you've got the documentation that's there there was a a range you know from five to to 15 uh the budget we had was a Max of 15 and so the other one was 8 to 12 so 8,000 to 12,000 so you for the Eddie um and so they've been given the information taking a look at so they they feel that that this quote should be pretty good for what they they want to look at is one of is one of these more comprehensive than the other or I mean um I I don't have a lot of experience with either one I've never done this before um both of them have been very open and had Zoom meetings and uh talked pretty in depth they were both given exactly the same information that there was that I had um you um I'm open to to suggestions either way um the response that I've seen you know honestly um as as Eddie Eddie baile has been pretty good at coming back with you know some good stuff and staying in touch they ask again if they could you know give any more information um so I'm open to discussion or or open it up that way to what your thoughts are reading through these is Eddie Bailey on looks like it's pretty in depth what they do so I guess I think maybe that's one we should kind of lean towards but the other the other one's pretty vag as to any details they kind of alard it again I think it they they can customize of what they find and start to look further Andor stop when there's nothing um so I think that that kind of gives us the flexibility of being able to to call it when we want Andor continue if there needs to be um kind of conversations which I think from a a two compan perspective I I read through both of them I think that Eddie Bailey W seems like it that that would be a two-way conversation versus you get what you get from the other one that would just be my perception based on the proposals on the packet so you're thinking of which one Eddie Bailey Eddie Bailey okay it's kind of what I thought when I read through the two of them so they they're spelling it out what you can I I looked at both of them as well um it's quite a contrast and and like you said the the ABDO is pretty 20,000 foot level here is our price range um the Ed Bailey is a little more detailed um kind of alarming that their range is five to 12, 5,000 to 12,000 and a $250 minimum to $450 an hour um we de numbers kind of put everything in perspective of what we're trying to accomplish here um with with the audit um I'm I'm still of the opinion I mentioned it before of um hiring our current Smith and schaer auditor they're an independent company just like these two companies are um and I think we could save some City and the residents could save some tax money um for a couple reasons one Smith and shaer because they do our audit I don't think they go into the detail that we're looking for here but they are familiar with our accounting umti departments um a lot of this is in the 425 account and um it's Revenue expenditures there's another account I think with the Min understand is the funds come into a 425 and they're dealt out to um the different um other other accounts whether it's receiving or revenue or expenditure so to me um there's some benefit I think of looking at our current auditor and having them do it um one could say Well they're too close to us well that's the independent that they strive to maintain is that they're independent of what the job they're working on for I think there's some really benefit for looking at somebody that's familiar with our accounting system versus Adobe or EDB coming in and having to spend time with them okay this is our account here and they're starting from scratch walking in cold and um asking a lot of questions and taking Jason's time and City staff time whatever you do who would be involved with any of these like Jason I would imagine there's going to be a significant need for members of the fire department to be available as well to provide documents and yeah we we've we've been able to there's some more documents that that are available but it's just how much you want to put into the pack that what goes on um honestly I think that somebody that comes in from the outside is actually better when you're looking at doing the friends that got it because they're going to be coming in and looking all kinds of different ways where somebody right now that that knows the stuff might miss stuff without having you know just a clean slate and clean eyes will come up with with what there is so both of these are are are well within what we had put into the city budget for for doing that so um I think that that the Edie Bailey makes a lot more sense so that would be what I would put up for a motion to approve them I understand what Riley is saying about having Smith and Schaefer come and do it again but it's kind of like them auditing their own numbers kind of like it's just like turning their adding machine on going over them again so it's kind of like I think what an independent auditor would would give us is maybe opportunities to safeguard our financial um Investments and how we're doing things so not just did something happen it's here's some opportunities for us to think about so more more on the process as well where I don't know with with our annual Audits and our monthly audits I don't I don't think they're looking at like the the whole process they're looking at did our checkbook balance um yes or no and I think that they would give us some opportunities to think about how we think about our budget and how do we track it and how do we earmark things and how do we do that which again I think from a a community perspective there's been lots of comments about transparency on our our funds and our budgets and I think this could help give us maybe an outside lens of what we should be doing and how we could do it from a process not just where did the fire funds go I think that's where that that independent kind of review might give us some opportunities to think differently about our finances as well I agree I think that that's a big point in what we're trying to do to just take a look so when are when Smith and shaer do come to us they will like you said they'll check our balances they will pick and choose certain invoices they don't go line by line through anything that's my understanding they take forever but it's just a a snapshot of the different departments different invoices and the balances out they also look at our our bond funds and our make sure we're making the payments same thing for our water utilities we look at all the depreciation of all the equipment and and again I'm not going to uh making any recommendations to change who our our current auditor is for the City off of that but for this in particular I think it's better to go outside you know so I'm not asking to to change those parts right I think this is the right way to do it and this is why we looked at it by by going this direction as an independent so um I I'll make a motion that that we approve Eddie Bailey for for doing the audit there a second second yep well they'll start whenever we want we have to do a down payment I believe is what there is for you know Bailey which is $88,000 or 80 I don't know 82 or whatever but the minute we do that and we get it organized already to start so I don't have a date on that one Daniel to be honest with you okay depend on I think we should though if we can manage that timeline I think the the more that we align it to when Jason has a few staff to help so he can offload that because I would hate for us to have Eddie Bailey ready and keep pinging us and charging us for that when Jason doesn't have capacity so we might want to think of timelines on when we could start that just so you can have some breathing room yeah because I've already got two software companies we're trying to integrate new programs with that's EA enough time on top of the other roles that I'm doing um so yeah that's just going to add into I think that'll be fine well we can start that one it looks like the timing's right y well I I I I recognize the need to do it and I have not talked to Smith schaer maybe they can do it um I wasn't I wasn't uh take the initiative to talk to Smith and schaer unless the council decided we should have to but or interested you were knowing what they can do but I would say it would be a to me it be a worthwhile conversation with them to see what they could do I think it's still independent would be the right way to do this when Ryland an independent well no they're they are current they're still in independent because they're notes that in their our they have to be an independent by the state I think they're independent but they're auditing their work yeah they would do that I think that's where getting a different perspective I think the perspective would be really good for us as as a city to have them take a look at it that way so I think by him getting called back they would probably pay closer attention to it I still think that's I'm saying we did something yeah I think aesh that eyes is what you want to have for this so I think we need to keep in mind I mean it's my opinion I could be wrong but I think this whole issue is being predicated by bad rumors um I feel like there's um there's a concern about the P tab donations and rightfully so I mean it's for many years from 2013 through 2021 um I think you know it was going to part dedication as in uh January February of 2022 we made a motion to put all the 10% funds back into the fire department and you see that in your packet in 2022 23 um all of those um I are good figures I think that's where that but the par you know went into the account of that 425 that's Revenue both had were the revenue and over in the same account as expenditures and so that P tab donation money went toward expenditures we talked about in the budget meeting in July that we're $60 70,000 over budget not over budget additional spending to outfit the fire truck so full tab donations went towards expenditures well again this is you there's there's rumors Ryland and and I've heard them for the last years that I've been involved with the fire department uh we've got it in the city budget I you know and if everything is perfect great I have no problems with that whatsoever uh but I think that this is one way for us to put the question to bed and have somebody go in and take a look at this and fresh eyes are the right way to do it uh so again we've if there's any more discussion I'd like to put it up for a vote we've already got a you know uh a second on this one so I like to put it to a vote need well we already we already approved it yeah but did the vote so well we we'll figure the time okay we're gonna I made the motion in a second to do that made a motion in a second but we don't we want to leave a timeline off of this motion yeah leave a timeline off because we don't know what Jason's got on how it's going to with other people that are coming in or when when we've got that but we'll put it down as soon as as possible okay as a timeline well I all I say is I I won't support the vote because I feel like there's a better way to do it and for Less cost for the right residents the vote will come out so another discussion all in favor signify by saying I I po say I I appr right um minut the consent agenda First Responders the consent agenda Eda development there's a report in page 70 to 76 there is a copy of a branding RFP for Branding that will go out feary to various companies I think that's a another important aspect of what Eda is bringing to the city on that one for the community branding have we reached out to any local universities to see if that work would align to any curriculum to get free marketing I um student work I'm not aware of anything I know in the past we worked with the University of Minnesota extension with grand money it wasn't um we had to fund it too but I know we're going through there's multiple companies we're looking at for bids we've got a kind of approximate bid of 4,000 R yes remember Alysa with Gold Rush she's one did all did all of the accounting for Gold Rush check with her because there was a study that that the uh I don't remember what school did it they come and did a study with Gold Rush years ago and check with her and see you remember that this was quite a while back I don't know if you're in city council yet maybe weren't even here I don't remember that it's been quite a while back but maybe check with her and see if because she's uh was involved with a college study Alissa Simmons Gregs no Alyssa Simmons she's the she's she was she was the uh she was the one that did the okay did the tax work for Gold Rush she was the in the financials for Gold Rush no bud budget is tight and if we're really trying to Rebrand or noal I mean getting young eyes on it and and doing it as a class project and and being able to to do that I mean it's free work if you will but it also gives us a different view on on how we think about branding or noal from a marketing perspective I mean I'm happy to to ask I mean I think the RP could go out but there I I do think that there's probably a possibility to even get someone local um to maybe help um with this too yeah on on doing this on The Branding um I kind of look gold R has been a part of the city for how many years now going on 53 years uh I mean you mentioned oronoko anywhere in Minnesota and the first thing that comes back is Gold Rush uh were one of uh probably the only community in Minnesota that's had a gold rush that they actually found gold here um you know I'm I'm just wondering is there a reason to Rebrand and I I'm thinking that that's a really a pretty good brand it's something that's that's so unique to the city itself you know so that's where I I question if we want to want to do that to change that I think it's it's a wonderful thing to have you know the way it is I mean if I can speak on that a little bit a lot of it starts with Gold Rush is now its own separate entity LLC so there's copyright infringements we need to make sure that we're staying away from that not that we can't work with that and see what we can do with that but that also means color schemes branding is you know a a cumulative amount of things so color schemes Loos you know wording um fonts all that kind of stuff falls into branding and so we had the we have the Grant I think it was $6,000 to go towards this branding which is why we're putting out the RFP I think it's a great idea to reach out to the universities um that's something you reach out to Rebecca and see I don't know what she's done with that but that's part of the the rebranding is to make sure that you know we can get set in what we are because with Gold Rush becoming a separate entity we need to make sure that we are you know falling in line with everything that I just said there to make sure that we're not overstepping their bounds while still absolutely including them because they are what we are as well I think we just heard in in the public forum right like the budget is is a a hard cut for them and if we can save that money and use it for something else while getting that done with you know a community um university and our students I mean that might help I mean we could get a lot of different options and we could pick and I mean I think it could be a unique opportunity for us to think about how do we pull our community um students in to to really think about oroko and how do we align to our vision and our um mission for for our city I think that might be a good opportunity but I don't know what that would look like well the Eda spent a good portion of the year last several months at least talking about this and we have uh Rebecca from the SE of Representative she brings that information and background to us and she's been involved with other branding programs on other cities and um Eda thinks this is the right thing to do it's it's all part of our movement forward with The Branding um and we feel like it's the time to do it and we Eda feels it's it's worthy of a call I think we've spent a lot of time looking at it and uh maybe the the quotes won't come back in our favor and we could consider doing something different too but I think we should U I think we should honor the Eda request because of the work theyve put into it what they bring to us um what Rebecca brings to us with the SE experience and I think that would be a a good thing for the council to approve so that's just an update there's no see what what folks come back to us for review so they'll be coming back in what February is after the deadline sometime this spring in the meantime is it appropriate to ask some questions about getting I would um I mean it can it can go out I mean it's not going to deter anything but just wondering like if we want to get this going it might be another good opportunity to think about how do we pull in local schools to help with that I mean even down to high school I know they have a lot of more business related classes too if you want to send an email to Rebecca first quarter bill came in for the C of contract of two days a month I make a motion I second that we need to I just want to show you this bill came in the contract annual amounts there poly ones when I get it in it'll come through on the on the stuff when I write the check for it thereat parks and trails and Ed minutes are in the packet for you next item is Jay City [Music] administrator first is up obviously end of year stuff lot going on everything worked out yeah so you'll see kind of with that too the there was a for the consent agenda the check register stuff was G to you guys today that was the packet that's one the last things they did finally get through today um there have been a lot of questions that ate up most of my day about the the billing I think we've figured out the utility billing stuff and explain to many citizens what happened and what's going on um simply there was a function in the system that was supposed to go in and say hey anybody who's doing autopay please pull from their account and put into our account missed that step in the process so it didn't pull their their auto pay for December which is the November bill so it got put on to their next bill which is everybody was confused as to what was going on and there was some confusion but got it figured out um the AO P will be set up and it will take both the bills at the same time in January again let me just make a comment I mine was off too and I know it wasn't I don't do auto pay on that either so it might also get involved with some other Stu the other the other side of that is um we read them late um as was explained as well we read them on the I believe it was the 10th so there's an extra two weeks or so um so it's larger because it's not just a month it's like the month and a half and we're going to be reading them at the end of the month again so the next one will be smaller in the usage amount so they they'll kind of even out or they should even out over that time frame but everything was read correctly through our system just as it always has been Kane was with me working through that portion of it and we didn't have any issues with the rions themselves so those are all read through the smart meters right yeah it just comes back to the city when you hit the trigger or canane drives around depending on which system they're on but yeah it'll all come back into the get red electronically and come back into the the system so there's no pass do that's going to be associated with that only pass du ones are the um the ones of the autodraft issue okay so everybody else shouldn't have any pass due I've also told people if there's any fees that got put on there we're not charging fees for pass do or anything like that like we're this is on us we're trying to get this caught up and and we get worked through and we'll get back back on our normal schedule here soon as figure everything out so any late fees will be removed yeah if I told and I told everybody who's come through I'm like if you do have any late fees there shouldn't be please let us know bring in your bill we'll document it and we'll get it fixed I haven't heard of any late fees being on there people ask and they'll show me and there's nothing actually on there I've seen I've seen a couple that have like the past balance and then there's another $5 late fee added on now there are some who have late fees from previous bills okay um and those those ones are still on there those those continue to ride through month after month um if they haven't paid it so there like I said there are some like that but all the ones that I've had um there are not any shouldn't be on them but like I said if there if there's a concern or issue come in show us and we'll work through it so and then I guess the second one on here update um I threw in the proposed uh new employee policy manual that's a lot of pages of this that are in here for review just to start reviewing it go through it um and be prepared for February so we're going to discuss that February for for approval in February so there's if if there's some stuff and this will come up I'm sure with the committee we'll kind of talk a little bit about more of that and new business stuff we can kind of that can this be turned into a Google doc like a living form to I'm sure it can okay B you Jason you say you're redid this but this is July 11th is the printing of this is this yeah so it's it's one I've had there's been a few things that I've been working on since then but July 11th was the last revision work that I had done with this the attorneys HR attorneys and they're the ones who kind of help propose put it all together in the word document and do all that and then since then it's just been I guess guess I've never seen the Personnel policy before so kind of curious what some of the changes actually were in it um there's a lot I can send you the marked up copy got the marked up copy I'm sure it's marked up there's no doubt but but you know did all the work it probably wouldn't hurt to to know what know what the change are uh I think for a later action that we're talking about with the employee Relations Committee I think that would be a key for them of not just job descriptions but also looking at that policy and I think for all policies we should work on putting a appendex on the end so we can know when we're changing and what was changed so we have that historic knowledge that we're keeping track of them um kind of in a grid at the bottom just so we can have that I think that's best practice I take it too that being it's a Personnel policy that anybody's hired or handed a copy of it I would expect don't know if that's the case they would yeah they would get one it's just our policy is so out of date everything that needed a complete rewrite and complete revision um it just was out of date and so that's why we have this complete revision that was done on this an update so did this would get more help well most of it was using LMC too I think more of a some of it but not of it it was you know tailored towards us and and and written towards us as a city not just based off the LMC model so that's February febrary right next time is um new business and first discussion was uh from councilman Pendergrass well I think the uh City UD really consider putting the River Park drain filled up for sale I think we should somewhere get get an estimate or an appraisal on it I know with the uh with the code being Rewritten by WSB they're changing they they're they're changing a lot sizes down and and by the time anything gets get put in place even even put it up for sale maybe the codes will be be ready by that time to verify the lot sizes and and I think that I think that it'll fall together in the same timeline you know City needs to uh require about 10 about 10 homes a year to uh to maintain our growth in this water and sewer structure so I have a feeling that that probably Falls in mind is a good help to that yeah I know a lot of residents in River Park are interested what's going to happen to as well so I think and I think I think to keep it as as closely related to the rest of the neighborhood is very important you know we have a covenants that would dictate lot size as well are there covenants down there I don't believe there there is there is I thought I thought there wasn't uh I didn't think there's no Home Owners Association no Home Owners Association but there is a covenants that's still active the covenants cover what though cover the minimum square footage it would be minimum square footage of a home minimum square footage of a lot um there's a handful setbacks are in there uh there's a handful of different things it handles the river front as well um well that would well that would that's a good place for this discussion then because that's going to that's going to regulate required to subdivision my this is just historical and correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is because the drainfield was decommissioned using State funds that the city wasn't allowed to profit off of the sale of that uh property well there's the city the city owned the no the city own the L or not the sewer system does the city have the deed to it so that would be true for like the the land area that the lift station is on but when we went through the real property decoration process we were able to exempt okay the larger drain field because it is developable um and the abandonment of the facilities that cost is very small and so yes you that that is not true for the large area for the portion of the property that you know is in and around the drain or the big lift station that is true okay um what cost would fall on the city to prepare those lots for residential sale well um it wouldn't necessarily have to fall to the city but whomever developed it now the lots have access to sewer and water but they don't have Individual Services running from the street to to that so that would that would be one consideration and then you know it's not plot it is not platted yeah so they you know they have to go through a process just like anybody else and look at you know zoning and then go and plat it through a pulmonary and final platting process and um figure out how to service those areas and how the driveways going be configured and those types of things and if there's any drainage issues um storm water management comes to mind as potentially an issue that would have to be looked at there are some things that would have to be looked at and steps to be taken but it's totally um within reason to think that you know you could you could develop quite a few Lots there uh that would be pretty valuable how much extra excavation would IDE with the developer whatever would be other than actual plotting it planting it and stubbing in the sewer lines there'd be nothing that I mean the streets are there which is great because you're not going to put a street in the middle of it you'd be doing it and especially you'd want to have it to look very close to what you've got right now for the housing to have it fit in you know and and and make sense but it would it would be Prime and I think you'd find that people would or a developer you know would be interested in doing that since the streets already in there and that so it just it makes sense I just thought we needed to have a discussion to be talked about so I think it'd be a good discussion to have but I think it's if we could kind of predicated with the new pnz codes coming out sure sometime after that code is established we could come back and take a look at this right and um find out all there's any legal aspects of it as well selling the property or so I think it's a good topic I think it'd be a great topic for March April May something like that we have the codes in front of us and kind of give us a better idea so I think we also they want to have a public information me to get feedback from as well exactly yeah I think that's good that later on too so yeah I think we should think about our strategy for the the decommission drain fields that this one is not the only one what are I mean what is our stance on that and how do we think about them as a collective as well I think that um is something we may want to think about as a city because this isn't the only commission fieldin Fields over y so we'll bring that back we'll keep it on the I think that dra field got a different layout of it where is quite as accessible as this one is this is pretty much a square N9 Acres so I meid and some nice neighborhoods that are around there so I mean that's okay next item is our Gold Rush discussion and with that we have um Mike if you want to go first can you hear me okay sorry can people hear me yeah hear me now yes you can hear okay um so I apologize I'm a bit under the weather today which is why I didn't didn't come um in person to the meeting but uh so I have quite a bit to say I'll just say that um Joe and I are going to kind of split up um reviewing this issue with you and he's going to talk more about um the developers demands in terms of the development agreement um what those demands mean for you uh MoneyWise and just public policy-wise and logic and I'm going to talk a little bit about the legality of of or the illegality of what they're asking you to do tonight and I'll start by saying you should not make any promises verbal or otherwise regarding this development tonight um that would be not in your best interest for a number of reasons but and I'm going to get into that um but the first thing I want to do is direct you uh to go into your packets to page uh 197 or excuse me 179 of 236 and if you flip to that page I could share my screen but I think I think people can just probably flip to it do everybody at that page y you want to share it for the audience can I share it uh Jason or is that yeah okay I I'm doing here I gotta send you a request just give me a second here9 okay let me see if I can do it here yep okay I'm in that that works slick here okay can people see um the page of the development agreement or the uh this is read itage see the P okay yeah and I don't know how it looks there but so paragraph 11 this is the orderly annexation agreement so to back up a step before I read this and explain it to you the city of oroko and oroko Township has an orderly annexation agreement this is the page four of that agreement um and you can scroll up I'll scroll up if you want to read excuse me m yeah you zoom in just zoom in yeah oh zoom in okay hold on yeah I can probably figure this out right uh oh here we go um here we go oops click plus again again is that better yeah yeah I'll do one more just how about thats good okay good deal um so this is the or this is yeah page 179 of the way that J Jason labeled the packet so this is Page four of the orderly annexation agreement so U this is the orderly annexation agreement that you have the city of oroko has with oroko Township did people read this at all before the meeting or or not I I mean it's a 300 page packet so I understand you didn't I'm just asking by anyone by the mayor by Jason or anyone any just the council members the five council members yeah yeah okay okay so you're you're generally familiar with it I won't take take too much time then but so one of the provisions in this agreement is paragraph 11 that's an important paragraph and I'll just read it out loud it's one sentence or two sentences it says the city's zoning and subdivision Authority shall apply within the annexation area until the time of annexation zoning and subdivision within the annexation area shall be governed by an administered in accordance with CI zoning subdivision ordinances and so what that means is the before the time that this parcel uh this Crossings parcel I'll call it or any other parcel within the larger annexation area um is annexed up until the time it's annexed the City Zoning and subdivision applies not the townships and the township has seeded authority to the city in those respects and what you should know about that is that's that's fairly normal in these agreements um the statute by which uh 44 14.0 325 the orderly annexation statute allows um the city and Township to negotiate a couple different ways regarding what will happen with zoning and subdivision and land use uh rules up and up up until the time of annexation the reason they do that is they don't want things to get zoned wonky if they're slated to be annexed in the near future or in the future and so there's different ways to do it one way to do it is you can set up a joint a joint uh Zone board with members of the city and Township that would jointly decide the zoning of parcels out in the township prior to annexation whatever for whatever reason you didn't do that here for whatever reason the city and and Township agreed to this probably because oronoko is a small community I think and so one of the main themes in the in the emails that were sent by Logan and and others were that the the developer is deciding whether not they're going to develop in the city or in the township and they want you city council before hearing any facts related to this to decide the issue and to basically prejudge as if you were a a judge hearing a criminal case before hearing the evidence they want you to render a verdict and that's not something you can legally do or should do ever and this came up in the the Hamilton development actually uh and I think we really skirted the line of this in the Hamilton development and at least in that case there was applications made to the city um but you got to be very careful when your council members about making promises verbal or otherwise um prior to the correct process playing out okay and that that can be declared arbitrary capricious and unreasonable by a reviewing court and you could throw out your entire action if you decide you want to approve the whatever they're going to they haven't even requested anything specific really but whatever they end up requesting you know you don't want that to be tainted by anything you do now so I mean my inclination was to to direct Jason not to have this on the agenda at all um for fear of that um but it was because of the way you do your agendas and Council people can demand things be on the agenda it's on the agenda so I just want to caution you before you you make any statements about about this um and that's not that's not the normal process so why why is this matter why is this zoning and and subdivision stuff matter if they're going to an next anyway well it matters because of the way that they wrote those emails and what they're actually saying they're basically saying they're going to go develop out in the township if we don't basically give them everything that they want Joe's going to explain how unreasonable some of that is um in terms of the financial impact to the citizens of oronoko and John Jane and John Q taxpayer who we all have to look out for here um and the city's Financial well-being as well so realistically that's not an option and here's why that's not an option if they try to do that they would have to rezone those Parcels under the city's subdivision and land use uh or subdivision and zoning and the the rezoning would be a key part of that the rezoning is is a legislative decision so there's two types this is more for um the two Council memb who are new you know there's two types of decisions you make as a council member uh when you're when you're dealing with uh land use applications you make legislative decisions that's where you're using your legislative authority to just decide how the city should be in this case the zoning map you're just making a legislative Choice as to how the zoning map should be um now and that's leg that that is a very low standard basically you know the idea is you were elected or appointed in some cases but you're on the Council you represent the people you have the right to think what you want to think and do what you want to do that just needs to be supported by a very low standard called rational basis and so absolutely if if the developers in this case were to apply to rezone this property before they anex it you could deny it because it doesn't have a rational basis it doesn't have a rational basis because it would be developing commercial development out in the township which is urban or Suburban development that should occur in the city specifically and particularly when it's subject to an orderly annexation agreement I.E the township and City have already slated that to happen so it's not really I mean that's their alternative but it's not really an alternative in my view and it's not good development either and that shouldn't happen if if they were to and the next Point here The Logical next step is if you decided to grant a rezoning of a Township parcel before it was an nexted there would be no way to force it to be annexed I mean that could stunt the development of the city out into that direction of the township forever it would be a forever screw up is how I would phrase that and and the reason for that is if you rezone something while it's still in the township there's no there's no incentive to anex because they can develop what they want to develop out in the township without annexation and that's that's not the idea here and that's not really what you should be doing um so with that in mind I'm going to stop sharing my screen does anybody have any questions about that provision or why that occurs or anything that I've said so far okay I'm going to move on you can ask questions at the end and after Joe um after Joe speaks I'll be available to answer questions too on that hold on all right stop share here we go um okay so you've got this orderly annexation agreement what are they asking for you tonight well or and I don't even know that they're really asking because they haven't submitted a formal request so I think what they're asking for you is to give like a wink wink nod nod promise that something is going to happen before you've actually went through the process and that's that's not acceptable and there's reasons for that there's public hearing notice requirements and in fact in your packet I don't know if it's in your packet but I was provided with I'm just going to share can I share one more time or do I go to do another request no I'm good so I don't know if people have seen seen this but this is just an example I don't mean to discuss the merits of what they want to do with their development it's probably a lovely development I don't really know that's not the point but somebody wrote this letter to the city to oronoko and oroko Township kind of opposing the development and so the way that this is supposed to work is that when you do a resoning or a land use Amendment uh or amendment to your zoning ordinance your land use ordinance is that you have a public hearing that's required by State Statute and it's properly noticed and people like this who oppose this development and then the developer who supports it and then maybe could be similar to the Hamilton development it could be a ton of people who who support and and don't support for various reasons traffic or you know traffic is what happened in in the Hamilton and tightness of the lots and there was a lot of things that people didn't like but the point is I'm not judging what whether it's good or bad that's not my role um but it's also not the city's council's role to do that until after you've had the process play out and and if you were to verbally tell them you you're going to do it before you actually let all parties have a say that would look like you've prejudged it you would have prejudged it and so you really shouldn't do that you really can't do that and that's that's the the kind of the Corner Stone of of why we can't really do anything here um and and the you know language and the annexation agreement and just the fact that this has to be developed in the city really is why the the annexation has to occur first or alternatively Joe and I discussed um if they petition for annexation uh concurrently or at the same time contemporaneously I guess would be the word contemporaneously with a rezoning application in theory you could do a rezonings are done by ordinance you could do a rezoning ordinance that's expressly conditional conditional on getting a final judgment and order from the office of administrative hearings um what that is is just because you have an orderly annexation agreement doesn't mean that this is automatically approved so you have to follow the process and submit you know you have to approve by resolution if you want to if you get a petition for annexation first of all you have to get a petition you can't just Annex without a petition and theyve refused to give you a petition and then after you get a petition under that agreement you've got to submit within 14 days you've got to send that to the township to review and then there's a process of paperwork you have to do and then you have to send that to the administrative chief administrative law judge the office of administrative hearings has to review that and approve that and that could take time and then it's not until that administrative law judge issues a what they call an oah order and then that order is served on various parties including Olstead County and other parties until that happens it's not a next and so you could do them contemporaneously but it have to be very specific contingencies on those things uh in order to submit those and do those at the same time I think it can be done Joe thinks it can be done um I consulted with one other lawyer in our firm he thinks it can be done so that's an option here but they haven't submitted anything and their kind of claim is well it's we're spending all this money right we're spending all this money we ought to know whether or not you're going to approve it before you hear all the evidence and decide whether or not you're going to approve it that's not how it works this is the government that's not how this works similarly Hamilton I mean Hamilton's a great example they probably spent tens of thousands of dollars in just working up their petitions and it got denied and they're out the money that's the risk of development that's what it is and the city council has the um should have the they should respect the city council enough to actually follow the legal process and and submit the thing so that you can review listen to all parties and make an informed decision you know I don't think you have even a document in front of you a formal petition in front of you for anything and it's hard for Joe or I really to advise you on what to do and what not to do other than to say that this is a flawed process um it's hard for us to advise you on the substance of those petitions um or or governmental approval requests such as a rezoning application um one side note there they did submit a rezoning application but it was done it wasn't done right it was basically 50% completed and Jason rejected it for that reason so so that's where I'm at with that part of this I just think that they haven't followed the process well enough or really at all and if if we got into this for two years I don't I didn't know it have been going on two years but if it's two years and they still haven't submitted anything to the city I don't think that's the city's fault I think there's kind of a subtext here or implication that it's oops uh that's my notes I got to stop sharing that um I think there's a subtext here that that the city screwed this up in some way and I don't really see that I don't understand that um you know they're the developer Hamilton didn't need handholding they hired reputable Engineers who knew what they were doing and then they submitted what they needed to submit and then the city considered their applications after they were submitted it ended up getting the reasoning at least got denied um but they did the process and actually did it you know they want you to promise things without doing it before they do it and that's just not that's not what you should be doing it's a bad practice and it's not legal um so that's that's my kind of my main issues with this um the other things I think Joe is g to talk about is and I'll just touch briefly on it um a couple other things before I do that so a couple other points that I think are important to note here here is that they are requesting certain Financial guarantees before we've even seen their development plans and Joel that's really an engineering issue about reviewing development plans and what the financial impact for the city could be depending on what's in those plans Jo can talk about that but um you know your ordinance doesn't allow you know we we have the utility code that we drafted when we developed the sewer um sewer system and it doesn't allow it's it's sections 519 and 5192 it doesn't allow extending Utility Services out to the township it doesn't without annexation first and so it's not really that's not something you should ever do by the way anyway I mean if you do that it will ruin your ability to anex anything in the future anywhere because the main criteria um that is is used to force annexation is that Urban and Urban Development requires Municipal services but if you were willing to extend those services without annexing those administrative law judges will just say well wait a minute you already extended it to those people you didn't Annex them so you don't need to Annex to extend sewer sewer services and that's that's just that's in the code it's in every City's code you just you have to Annex to get services so um those are my those are my main issues I guess on the on the financial aspect of it I would just say that and Joe will get into this but you know doing what promising them to not charge fees that you charge other developers is not a good practice um and number one and it could cost number two it could cost the city huge amounts of money and and your residents pay for that your residents then pay to have to basically pay for a private developer's private development and you ought to think think really closely about that before you say anything about this um I I think um you know beyond that I can't really tell you what to do I guess moving forward I'm confused I had sent Logan a long email um because I'm kind of new to this I mean I talked to his colleague Craig Britain and a little bit about it and in fact the petition for annexation you see in in the in the packet I created I created it during the meeting when Linda King was here maligning the city um yelling and it was really really beyond the pale and these emails are Beyond The Pale in my view um trying trying to get you to do things you really shouldn't do and and acting like it's just normal and this is the normal thing that should happen it's not this is highly unusual it's unheard of and you just should understand that um but during well Linda King was saying all that I thought well what the heck I'll just put a petition together for them they must have some problem filling out a petition so I put it together for them I didn't bill you for it because I was already at the city council meeting anyway I was just sitting there on my laptop and I sent it to Craig and and it has not been submitted um you know I think you know lastly we had a developer the Two Sisters development you know they hired a lawyer and threatened the city on a number of fronts one of the things they threatened was unfair utility practices that we were charging different developers different amounts for their connection to the W Wastewater system system and that that was a justiciable legal claim against the city because you're charging people different and so what what their request and I I'm not saying that's wrong I just don't think the city had done that frankly I don't think we we did charge people differently but if you were to go wave the whack and Sack and PF fees you know what's to stop any developer from saying you know we don't have to pay those because you didn't make them pay them and that's that's hugely expensive and it's it's going to affect your sewer system for the long long run so anyway those are my thoughts I just I think you should just not do anything tonight and just listen to Joe speak and then just pass on this and not not act on it that would be my best advice for you or just ask questions about the process but don't I wouldn't get into the the discussion of the merits of of anything the merits of something that isn't just disable yet it hasn't been it's not ripe for you to do anything because they haven't done they haven't submitted anything so like for example whether this is a good you know good for the city or bad for the city I'm sure there's arguments I mean we went through the Hamilton thing there's arguments on every side of everything and that's fine it's just it's tonight's not the night for that um that's got to happen at a later time and this might be given the tenor of those emails this might not be something they're willing to do you know they might want guarantees before they spend a dime Hamilton spent tens of thousands of dollars without guarantees because that's what this is that's what government approvals are and they got denied and they just took that risk and they're asking for no risk here uh and that's not and for you to decide things without facts and that's not something that I take lightly I don't appreciate those demands and and the way that this was handled and I just want you to know that you shouldn't do anything with this um until they they do the work like Hamilton did and then you should consider it fairly consider these people's objections like that lady that or lady I don't know it's a lady who was a multi people I think it was unsigned but Jason can say I think it was an anonymous sort of submitt so and then Joe can talk about the development agreement so that they're asking for lots of specific you know demands for fees and this sort of thing without of course usually that's done after we get their submittals and we can review them and decide what the fees should be and what the costs are which we're not given that in this case so Joe you want to talk about the rest of it yeah um Mike gave Council a lot of very good information um and I will just put a little perspective in it from the engineering side so I did print out some exhibits uh in August uh I was at a meeting along with City staff and the developer and this um illustration or uh concept of a development was presented okay and so little perspective um here is Minnesota Avenue uh here is The Interchange this is Hunter Street Street uh and they're proposing um some commercial Lots on both sides of the roadway on I think about 80 acres or just a little less than 80 acres and uh um they do want all they're proposing all commercial development and some of this matches the future land use plan that's up behind you and some of it doesn't Okay uh right now it is not in the city limits uh it would need to be annexed in for the city to serve it um and move forward as part of the city of oroko so a little bit more perspective um I would say that the city has spent a lot of money um constructing sanitary sewer and water systems and um sizing those systems and configuring those systems to support development and so most of your Development Area as we've talked about in the past is to the South and so really what you want to do is sequentially develop uh just like all cities they develop outwards uh in your case outwards is primarily to the south towards Rochester that's where um your urban service area is that's where the land is to develop within your urban service area and so as you do that uh utility extension is important and that has to happen sequentially so second map um this Gold Rush Crossings is right down here here this is an illustration of some of the water M system the blue lines um that would need to extend and so again you've got a water tower up here a well here a well here and you've got a service area um well down here uh well well to the South and to the east of this proposed development and it's important that these trunk trunk water mains extend from North to sell through that development so that you can go ahead and serve the adjacent property owners and the adjacent Property Owners to them it's a sequential process so allowing that to develop in the Township in any way shape or form without Municipal Utilities would be a huge mistake from the standpoint of you know constructing these um uh water mains and in this case here's a sanitary sewer um same convention applies in the sanitary sewer side you've got a a lift station a big lift station here uh costs hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to construct that uh that lift station size to serve lots of property out here well the mains to the lift station have to extend Upstream from the lift station through the adjacent property own properties and there's a sequence to that and so if you would not again install sanitary sewer or water M within those areas developing areas to the south of that to the east of that are very difficult and you've sized um your infrastructure to be able to extend that way and to support that so you got Wastewater systems you got water systems to be able to support that and if you would allow that to happen it would be a pretty significant mistake in terms of facilitating future development as well as um you know Pro protecting ground water um a commercial development needs fire protection commercial development needs potable water um commercial development needs Wastewater service they're talking about a commercial development that you know might have a grocery store uh might have a truck stop might have a you know a lot of things that really need fire protection water supply and Wastewater service to develop so that's big p picture um information within the um email and within your packet the developer was asking or essentially demanding a number of things that the city um not do for example uh the first one is uh orok would be responsible to construct turn Lanes going into the development that's not how it goes at least in anywhere I've ever worked and we've got examples in oroko for example um the turn Lanes constructed going into the case's were constructed by the developer the turn Lanes uh going into the gas and gohost site were constructed by the developer this wouldn't be any different from my perspective um extending roadways or they don't want to extend roadways to the adjacent properties well again not how things are set up uh just like the utilities roadways need to extend through uh and provide access to adjacent parcels and so if you look at River Park you look at Cedar Woodlands you look at Riverwood Hills future roadways are always considered roadways just like utilities are extended to the property line to facilitate orderly development of the next and adjacent properties um and of continuing through this um sanitary sew sewer distribution uh they have got some comments about where they could connect well there's multiple locations where they might connect and um once we see a configuration of exactly what they want to do and how they want to do that we'll look at the city's infrastructure and work with the developers engineer on figuring out where the best place to uh connect and how those utilities need to extend through the development not only to serve their best interest but the best interest of the adjacent Property Owners um same way with the water M um and it's also important to note that you know some of those facilities might need to be oversized so for example a water M um we run trunk water mains from the wells and the towers uh self so that we have sufficient fire protection um commercial areas need more fire protection than residential areas and they appear to be U wanting to be held to a residential standard in terms of the pipe diameters things like that that's really not how your ordinances are set up that's not how I'd recommend you do it um there could be some negotiation if we're upsizing pipes to serve uh areas far away from them but given the fact that they commercial development they need um heightened fire protection more so than a residential area would um so I I guess I wouldn't um say that's impossible but I think we don't have any information aside from one pretty piture there's no grading plans there's no plating information there's no drainage reports there's nothing aside from a picture um that we can look at and make any informed decisions on um kind of continuing on building on the theme that Mike set forth um waving sewer availability charges water availability charges uh plant investment fees um you've set up a model you've charged all of your residents these fees all the developments um that come forward need to pay their proportionate share that's how these systems were designed this that's how the financial model was developed um what they're asking you to do is essentially subsidize your development you've got fees in your ordinances uh you've got a fee schedule the assumption is that they should be held to the fee schedule just like anybody else um Parkland dedication this is a commercial development we'd have to look at the code specifically but I don't think there is a dedication requirement for a sub um res for non-residential properties and then paying costs for uh Professional Services planning costs different fees uh in terms of looking at the design of the facility making comments working with the city attorney on the development agreement um providing inspection during construction making sure that things get done like they are proposed um having professionals look at those documents cost money uh typically those costs are passed on to the developer and so um having the developer say that we're not paying for any of that is highly irregular and not something again that I would I would recommend or that I would normally see so lot of information that Mike and I kind of presented we did talk about the information or the questions posed in their um um letter I I totally agree with Mike's perspective and his recommendations about how the council should address this are there question questions of Mike or I that we could address further I I guess the only question I have in the way I'm I'm looking at at this whole thing is um the first step that there is is the annexation part of it and and the orderly annexation is pretty cut and dry and and the the chart that there was I think it was 197 or whatever else um gave the the flowchart of exactly how things need to be done and again it's it's one of those things to do it I think that that it's on yeah 191 um I think that that that's the way that it should be addressed is is to do that first okay and from there if you look at the chart once the application has been done and and everything has been approved then we go from there and then you go go to the public hearings and go from that point that the isk behind it but I I think that we do need to have that public hearing which is required I think we do need to have the input that there is from the residents to be able to do that and and the residents have basically been very open up to this point on everything that's going on but there's still a formality that needs to be done and not to Sid step what what's on that chart um so I'm looking at at that may be two parts that that one is getting the annexation part of it done and go through those processes that are there fill out the application get everything done correctly and then after that because we can't negotiate on the rest of anything that's going on until after that's done so you know that's I mean it was pretty straightforward on the annexation agreement you know and it's you know and how it's to be done it it the process is straightforward you've got an orderly annexation agreement it spells it out in black and white uh it's you know the city's done lots of annexations as does every city it's a common occurrence you follow the process uh one of the things that the developer is asking to do is um they need to make a decision on whether they want to Annex now or not and develop the property and at the same time they'd like like some understanding is well if we Annex into the city there's tax structure change things change a little bit um but they want to understand uh what's going to happen on the zoning side because they're also having asking the question we need to rezone the property um and one of the things that we've seen done before is have that process go concurrently um so you there consider the rezoning and consider the annexation application um concurrently now there is a process just like Mike talked about that annexation takes time and there's a process and just because you approve it doesn't mean the annexation is complete until the process is complete but you can essentially have a some contingencies built into the variance approval assuming that you would approve that variance and right now we don't have any information we don't have any applications um we don't have anything but a picture submitted on a at at a cordial meeting four months ago so you know that's one thing that you know one way the city could facilitate the process speed it up and then provide them some with with some help making the decisions as to when and how they want to Annex um I know that that Mike had mentioned a conditional use or going along that so can I can I jump in there so Jim I think almost everything you said is what needs to happen I think what you said and what Joe and I think are were on the same page the only thing I would challenge you a bit on not challenge you but just disagree a bit is it's not a formality I mean I was looking at the league materials as to how they view the public hearing and they view it this way a significant part of the zoning process is the public hearing mandated by the municipal planning Act and I I don't view that as a formality I view that as kind of the central the central event the main the main event so and so but I think that's and the bottom line is they've kind of given these ultimatums and demands and threats frankly and so I before any of what happens you just said is what needs to happen but before any of that happens I think the developer needs to apparently they got multiple partners there's multiple Cooks in the kitchen I think they need to have a meeting with just themselves and decide what they want to do and do they want to go forward with this or not and if they want to go forward with it that's fine we're will to work with them notwithstanding everything that's already I've read in the last week which I question I I question their sincerity and their competence frankly um basic competence but not with not withstanding any of that I we're willing I wrote him a very nice email and I basically said reped email and I said I'm willing to work with you to work this move this forward that kind of stuff so we're willing to Jo I willing to do that but I think they need to make the decision first if they even want to do this and if they do want to do it then then um then I think what you're saying is absolutely right we got a flow chart it's not you're totally correct Joe's correct it's not that complicated um people do annexations all the time I I'm doing one in plan view right now and the the petitioning party asked well how long does it take and so I went on that they have a website you can go on their website the municipal boundary adjustment office website and look at the the prior annexation that have been approved and the timing of those ranges I mean a lot of them are done in a week or two some of them are done in several months before they get approved it's not up to us by Statute they have up to a year to approve it or and they can by agreement to the parties go longer I assume that's when there's problems this one doesn't really seem like it's this is Garden variety you know straightforward I don't really see any issue here but they have to do that I mean they have to engage in that process you know really engage in it not just talk about it and say well we've got public support wide public support who cares about wide public support that's not the issue the issue is you got to apply for something and do the process we got to actually do the work and so if they want but I don't know if they want to even do that it's unclear I think they need to meet and decide what they want to do or not do and then if they want yeah go ahead I know what they're proposing is everything they've talked about would be Highway commercial beat to if I recall looking at the map right some of that is a multif family residential and is there is the possibility they could side side step the one step of having to do the resoning if it was reson contingent upon bringing it into the city happening at the same time that's more of a Joe question than a m question but I I assume they need to do a rezoning to do what they want to do it's out the town could they can't this happen at the same time no be very concurrent yes that's I mean that's at the same time right yes one one one leads into the other oh concurrence at the same time okay I think they can do that I mean you just have to be very careful when you do the resoning ordinance to make it expressly contingent it's got to be very correctly worded but yeah I think I don't see any legal reason you can't do them contemporaneous with each other concurrent with each other and just make one contingent on the other as long as those contingencies are spelled out really carefully I don't see any reason why that can't happen I mean but they you know that solves their complaint about a guarantee before they do the annexation um that might solve that problem they still want you know huge amounts of fees to be waved you know um probably not even legally if you believe the Two Sisters the guy that's threatening to sue us and hired a lawyer to sue us you know they believe you can't even do a lot of that so but but those are really separate issues I mean I think foundationally you know they wrote an email saying we demand a meeting a public hearing on the 24th of January you know that's not going to happen so you know we can't really even do that I we'll we'll do what we can do here and they need to decide if they want to work on the actual work and do it or not and if they want to they don't want to you can't force them so I guess that would be the other point is you can't force an annexation so can I um I think this is important for you you all to know just not even for this property but for all properties so if you mind can I share my screen once again here let's see if I can I do have a question I don't know Joe or Mike was going to answer it but you know I've been in the in the in the past when when we brought Riverwood Hills in Cedar woodlands and the in the uh whack and Sack fees were were paid upon the issuance of building permits if I remember right so until a building goes up there' be no whack and Sack fees due correct depend the develop that is one uh one policy that we have offered to continue because there is a history of that and that policy is really to the benefit of the developer it is some cities have you pay that upfront and the city gets all that money up front um it is a huge um benefit to the developer to do it the way you do it and that is very much development FR as the as the building permits our absolutely okay that's kind of and and the clarify too everything that there is on the future land use map on the west side of Minnesota Avenue is is done as Highway commercial right now okay so that that half of it seems to already be there with what it is for the future land use map so the question is would be on on the east side okay and and working off of that just so that that we've got it in there that the west side is done and know what goes on okay um and and I'm trying to word it where I don't get anybody in trouble so oh Jim I I think so um it's really important to know I think you're bringing up a very good point here and it relates to that Hamilton development if you guys recall that development they changed the zoning throughout the project they they had an original proposal but then they realized they needed to tweak it and they redid their plans and and they were requesting one resoning and then they changed that rezoning request in the middle and then resubmitted it because as they work through the project they they realized they need a different zoning which happens and so that's another reason you can't really approve something until you have it in front of your you but the only other thing I really wanted to point out is um it's paragraph 13 this might be distorted now on the screen because I I blew it up too much go back one it's okay and so on it reads this the joint excuse me this joint resolution and agreement provides the exclusive procedure by which lands within the annexation area may be annexed and so there's multiple there's multiple ways we this gets a little in the weeds of annexation but there's multiple ways to Annex property one of them is contested case annexation and that's the only method you can Annex a property without a petition so in other words if you if you you're John Smith and you own land in the township to can't forcibly move your land in the city you have to you have to petition for it and they haven't submitted a petition you can you can do contested case annexation but this agreement you signed this agreement giving up that right so anything that's to you know defined within that annexation area on this attachment you have to do it pursuant to this agreement like this is the agreement it requires certain things you have to do this um and so that's that really is the first step I guess that's that's what I would say and and um yeah that's and I think you guys kind of understand it I just I don't were you just wording emotion Jim no no I wasn't wording a motion at all um okay all right yeah that's what you're saying and and and that so um no I'm just a matter of of discussion of what there is um that's why I just wanted to make a comment that everything on the west side is already there in zone for Highway commercial of what goes on um so that's in our future land use map that's a part of that so it's just Eide that's all I was was saying comments or whatever else so absolutely I don't know want to make comments or talk a little bit Joe or us yeah well I think we should yeah is that okay Mike so they're here in the audience so well well I mean I don't really think you know there's nothing before the city here I think that you can take comments no different than Hamilton that's the only development we've really done recently but they made or tried to you know been involved but they made informational presentations to the city so what I what I would recommend you do is just allow them to speak as much as they want but just understand that that's informational only you know don't don't take any actions on it just listen to what they have to say I guess would be the the best way I'll go first uh the north side of our east side is Glenn's Motor Coach right ac across the fence and that is zon rezoned B3 Highway commercial is that correct no yes okay that's the answer then E3 so it's already a precedent that we shouldn't have no problem with a rezone and that's how we're taking that um you said it takes time how much time we've been dealing with this BS for a very long time okay and this is kind of why we're dealing with BS and why others have dealt with BS I can see now in the past why care about public support is what I heard from you shame on you our Engineers are not reputable shame on you we should be on number seven unfinished business because we've been dinking around with this for for a very long time this is not new business we came to that first council meeting that should be on record and we had two people on the council that are not here tonight that didn't even know where the land was they didn't even take the time to go look at the land that we were going to be talking about at a me at a meeting so this is very frustrating to us and everything I heard from two people tonight is out of line you think our developer is out of line you're worse so let's get back on track let's get things worked out help us help you you help us what do you need and we'll do it no more pointing fingers especially when somebody's not here everybody's got a role in this and we got new members thank goodness but every time we have a meeting we start over and we walk out with nothing no vision no guidance nothing so name is Le andon Brookie from Omaha kind of been a silent partner in this and sitting back because I'm six hours away it's kind of difficult to be up here for all the meetings so I'm just trying to wrap my head around this and I'm really taken by surprise with your attitude Mr flarity um and I know there's been some changes I don't know all you folks I'd like to get to know you I'm curious Mr Palin have you had contact with our engineers this process at all I did meet with them on August I think it was 23rd in this building when I got that okay aside from that I've been copied on a few uh emails um but there's nothing to act upon there's no annexation petition uh there's no zoning applications have you given our Engineers or our folks to to proceed well we gave them guidance on a lot of basic things probably to kind of start on I can go back to my notes but the need for turn Lanes need for storm water management how sewer and water could be accessed and configured through the development um utility fees what those fees are how they're calculated and how they might apply to a conceptual development um that type of information has been provided all that I received was the map that hangs on the wall back here there's been no engineering data submitted there's nothing to review there's no applications to review be happy to look at that work through that with you I've worked with um wiseth on other developments um they understand the process I know that we can get there um they've done other work in oroko even I'm confident that they you see them as rep absolutely that said they haven't submitted the applications that they need to submit to start the process and so you know the email that we got in terms of you know making a bunch of Demands and saying the city's not falling through on different activities and actions from our perspective there's no action to take because there's been no submittals we've had some informal meetings we've tried to provide the information that allows you to kind of formulate the development and give you some things to think about uh how we've dealt with development in the past PE structures those types of things because that's very important from um a developer's perspective on you know how how things need to lay out um what challenges might lay ahead of them uh and any infrastructure challenges that we know of um we try to provide that information and I'm happy to happy to work with wiseth or anybody else um on your team to to provide that information but in order to move this forward um you know we kind of need you need to make the submittals you need to do the uh due diligence behind the submitt so that we can review it and move it forward and we're happy to work on timelines with you um I think we talked about the fact that you know the annexation and the U uh resoning process could be done concurrently that would potentially save some time and um you know help you in your decision-making process happy to work through that um happy to work through the de preparation of a development agreement but at this point a lot of information that's needed to prepare a development agreement um isn't available um and that needs to come from the developer uh and be submitted through the city's City's process so you any interaction Engineers or uh yeah I've been to a few meetings that there have been back and forth and um I've been uh requested to be the leason between planning and zoning and and this this project as watching and trying to move it along um it just um to me it was it was stuck in the mud okay and I'm trying to get it out of the mud and and and move it down the road you know because otherwise again we're just going around in a circle and nothing is is getting taken care of so that's why I wanted this so that we can get a direction to move okay for you for the city for whatever is going on we got to go if that's what what what what wants to be done and so um again I I see and I think that mik was this annexation agreement is the the first thing that needs to be done to follow the annexation agreement which has already been put out 10 years ago that we follow that and it's a simple you know direction of what there is not seen that is that a two-page document or 52 page Doc it's I got a copy of it right here okay give it so I'm go ahead okay by I got it already printed because I've got another copy of it it's a it's like a four or five page document it's a normal orderly annexation agreement the have a DAT itself that we've asked the annexation petition that Mike is referring to was sent to everybody on November the 19th we've been waiting since November the 19th since to receive that signed two-page document by Linda and yers copy of the book you want to sign it tonight can start the process a little homework to before sign so mayor I mean I just want to reply a little bit like I did write an email back very polite and contrite email back just asking for information basic basic basic information and the response I got was basically that you know they don't want to do it unless we meet every one of their demands and and I've never been involved with a a project like this where the developer makes demands that are are this unreasonable and then it's that or the highway our way or the highway that email came about because we were too years here spin our wheels and there's some frustration and it's time to figure out where going to kick this in gear and well here's here's all the time we got to be realistic and work at speed business sometimes like here's here's the reality you you know every development that I've ever deal dealt with the one we're doing in plan view right now which Craig is the engineer on and is doing a I know Craig knows how to do it because he's doing it in in that one and he's filled everything out correctly he made one mistake on the first petition and they redid it but he did pretty good good he did good um they know how to do it like I don't understand I just I'm still mentally blocked here with understanding why the city needs to fill out and sign something that legally the the landowner is required under the annexation statute to sign I don't I don't understand that I just and I don't understand how an engineer can demand that the city do things that are illegal and that's why my tone is a little bit negative you know we can't you're asking us to break the law for you and I just I mean I have to I don't know I'm not asking you to break a law I don't know the but but here's the problem Logan does and Craig does and they're writing these emails and putting their name on this stuff got jump in here they're endorsing it like I don't get listening can you guys hear me yeah I gotta jump in here because I I don't really appreciate the defamatory comments that you're you're making right now I have an obligation to to represent my client this is a development that's been going on for almost two years and we haven't had any guidance other than from an email um that we received back in August 5th and that's the frustration we haven't received any kind of application any kind of required submittal at all for two years okay so Linda's upset the partners are upset and I don't appreciate the defamatory comments that you're making about wiet that's not right here's the thing you can't demand we do things that clearly require the central piece of it a statutory legal requirement and you send us things that basically for us do that you're talking about process Mike we're not arguing process at all I worked with the city of Rochester and Olstead County for 12 years every single development agreement that we wrote was different that's part of the development part of the process so my client would like some kind of insurances from the city that they support the development in some fashion so that we can move forward I'm not asking for an approval do they agree that this should be some some kind of commercial B2 I think we've talked about that you have to do a land use plan Amendment you have to do a zone change first right annexation obviously is the next step we're not arguing process or step so let's just let's get off of that well but how how can we judge it and tell you can you do some kind of General support like this has been going on for two years no no they're not supposed to judge something and then hear 15 neighbors complain and then change their mind and then the only the only guidance that we've had thankfully is from Ryland Ryland has been great and Jason's been great as of recently they weren't here Jason wasn't here originally okay what was laid out out for the timeline meet the Eda director Rebecca Rebecca Charles City administrator Jason Baker City engineer Joe Palin and mayor Ryland ior we did that number two scheduled meetings with the city council members Paul pentas IR damic Jim Richards and Jim Phillips we did that meet with the Eda committee to share your plans and respond questions they meet the fourth Tuesday of each month Rebecca Charles is the Eda director and her email address and the email distribution we did that request placement on Planning and Zoning commission agenda at monthly commissioner meeting to share your idea and any concept drawings of the proposed development you may want to do this before filing for an annexation to get some feedback on your concept plans they meet the second Thursday of every month 6:30 pm City Hall Kathy Brandt record in the pnz chairperson here's our email we did that number five consider having public information meeting with area residents to present your concept development plans and solicit resident feedback about the plans and allow them to ask questions guess what we did that the neighbors loved it it was great contact Renee wild City Deputy clerk to make these Arrangements all that was taken care of number six submit application for annexation followed by a general development plan at the appropriate time with after discussions with your engineers planners City Engineers planners and administration that's where we're at we follow the process that was was outlined we're not prepared to make any applications without some kind of assurances after 2 years that's the point how can we make those assurances when there's a legal process that has to be followed I mean don't we have to do the process the statutory process before we guarantee oo's process the process you're talking about is submitting applications we understand that process that's not the argument but in number number six that was outlined in the process for us to follow before we even get to that point is to have a concept plan reviewed by all these entities and all these groups which we've done and we're no further along today than we were two years ago you submit the application for annexation or the petition you're stuck on application mic it's like pre-development meetings you do them all the time you have a give and take you talk to the city we followed all of these pre-development type of meetings met with a different entities and again we're no further ahead than we were two years ago we will make application for these things that you've suggested when we know that the city is on board of some kind there's some kind of assurance after we've followed their process I might interject just a little bit here um Jesus Logan you you have U indicated that you've met with Council members you've met with uh the public you solicited their feedback um I have been part of two meetings with you where we sat around a table and I did provide you commentary in terms of things that I would be looking for the city would generally be looking for um that all falls in the realm of feedback the type of assurance that you're looking for in terms of how things are developed how we' perceived them um you're going to have to read that feedback that you get from council members and from Eda members and from the committee I don't think that the council based on Mike's recommendation is going to say yeah this all looks great you should go ahead and do that because we have no problem with anything the city as Mike has explained exhaustively tonight that is not how uh cities should function and that's not the recommendation that the council is getting from their City attorney um you've I appreciate that is that Joe speaking feedback and and you've got to read what you're getting and make decisions based on the conversations that you've had with people well we've had a lot of conversations and the changes that we've made were actually that concept plan that's on the wall right we've listened to the Eda they wanted we talked about buffer yards we talked talked about uses we talked about connecting this and that the neighborhood too the thing they didn't want multi um Family apartment buildings they didn't want this that and the other thing right so we we worked through all this process created a general development conceptual plan right and we still haven't gotten anything from the city which was outlined to us we are ready to submit we have what we need now because Jason gave us the application first time we've seen an application and I think Joe submitted that zone change here a couple weeks ago we had never seen an application before we worked with Mike on the annexation process and he drafted up that letter we were ready to go and the reason you haven't heard anything from us since the 19th is because the client our client was trying to decide if they can develop in the city or if they want to work with the township so since then we've worked with the township had a meeting to discuss all these options right trying to formulate all this information to make a decision okay so why I don't understand why we're having the meeting tonight I mean the pre-development stuff happens outside of the meeting when you meet with the engineer mostly in the city staff and I get I get that but the email you sent demanded I mean expected timeline and process I mean it kind of demanded how many meetings do you have to have before it's considered public notice Mike I guess that's the point we've had multiple Planning Commission meetings we had an Eda meeting we had a neighborhood meeting we've been to one council meeting you know there's just hasn't been any guidance other than the the email from Ryland about how we initiate the clock and get this process started that's the frustration I understand your frustration better now but I also think this email is sort of like threatening frankly threatening the city you're saying that the email is our email was threatening Mike I think you need to maybe listen to the the meeting and the defamatory comments that you had tonight and that email that you sent to us H wasn't real polite so let's just be real here I'm tired of pointing fingers that's not what we're here about okay let's move this development on provide some guidance and Clarity which we know we've got to submit applications okay but Linda's there tonight her partners are there tonight we need some kind of General consensus about if you support a land use plan Amendment and a zone change and if there is some flexibility with development agreement because Linda's not going to pay fees she's lost $6 million already in two years because this has taken so long people have been pulling out because this is taking so long again no guidance no applications there's nothing that has been provided to us to start the process okay so there's frustrations on both sides obviously well so what do you want them tonight like what in what form what legally can they tell us that you know well they can't prejudge an application that requires a public hearing before they hear from the public they can't do they can't that I've never seen that before that's not something they can do so I I guess um you know I don't I've given them a kind of ad nauseum said that you can't prejudge things you got the statute the land use plan the municipal landuse act requires a 10 days public published public notice I mean it's in the statute I mean you've been an engineer for a long time this is why I was confused by this email I'm like well why are they asking us to do this yeah no it's not we understand we understand process again this has been almost two years we've had no guidance from the city multiple meetings multiple discussions and here we are can't you just submit it then can't you I mean wouldn't that start isn't that the point of the 60-day rule you just submit things and force the city to act well no actually our point for the client is that they've been working on this for a long time before they Annex into the City and do anything they want to know what the the fees are going to be and what they're actually getting into that that's that's just common sense that's just business practice right like what kinds of thing what give and take is even available for a development agreement so the development agreement typically the fees I mean there's a lot of different fees but a lot of the fees are linked to the cost of public improvements we don't know the cost of the public improvements for this development because there's been nothing submitted for us to assess though that dollar youve got you've got a concept plan I know we got to do utility plans and infrastructure plans grading plan all that right that's part of the process that's a lot that's a lot of that's that is the pro I mean that's that's the meat of it in the email we said we'll be responsible for all the development and roads on the utilities and stuff like that on our property right we're just trying to make sure that there's not anything above and beyond that's out of ordinary so I yeah all of this everything you're saying needs to be dealt with at an engineering level at a meeting not in the city council so I I guess You' had that that's the frustration and that's really my point well we can't we can't be you know basically forced into saying you're not going to develop unless we do exactly what you want to pay and limit fees to exactly what you want I mean that's not going to move this forward so and that's the email we got so I think the best what I think should happen here I mean the city council can do what they want they've listened to all this um but I think you should um make any promises uh I think generally developers will get a sense if things are going to be approved before they apply but I mean that just the concept of us guaranteeing an approval before we've seeing the application for the approval is just conceptually something that I've never seen and I'm not willing to advise that they do the amount of time and what we've done that's the assurance that my client would like they would like some kind of General support for the land use plan and they would like some kind of flexibility to be able to negotiate the terms of a development agreement oh development Agreements are always negotiated I mean like like you said Each one is very specific and different I have the same experience the reason that they're very different and specific is we get submittals um specific to each development and we review those and then craft the development agreement around those developer submittals so we haven't received any submittals so how can we really draft a development agreement I mean isn't that what the agreement is it's based on what the developer wants to do with their property and what they're proposing to do you know where the development is right you know you know what roads are involved I think the purpose of that email was to start negotiations yeah and I and honestly I told Jason this shouldn't be on the agenda anyway and it got on the agenda so what I suggest is we just meet either I can be a part of it if you want or Joe can just do it and Jason and we'll just start to discuss what actually has to be submitted in the order it has to be submitted um that would be great that's the most and Direction we've had in two years I mean I do these all the time city council I got this email and I thought this was way out of line way out of order was out of line too so again I'm not going to point figures how are we gonna move forward here M I'm I'm clicking reply to the I mean I match the tone I guess I I say I match the tone and um and I think I less than match the tone um well I think that's how you need to move forward I mean you just have to you you know work on work on it to a point where you're happy or you're ready to make a submitt to the city to do it and not my decision it's my client and that's who I'm representing no I get that uh but I don't know how the city can promise something I mean how do you expect a city council member to vote to guarantee a specific rezone before they have an application for a rezone I just they're not voting they're not making a motion they're not it's it's more of a discussion and that was the purpose of this whole thing they even I want to hear from the council if they'd even ENT entertain any of the terms that Linda provided I want to hear if the council is going to even entertain a land use plan change when we've got the neighborhood support we've got the general support from the Planning Commission but again no direction and here we are I'm not going to rehash all that again um but given the lack of Direction in our process and we're two years into this I I think it it's it's just out of respect that something be said right well I think the council should weigh in that I don't have anything else to say about it honestly I say Logan Linda would like to speak no I have a comment also we're not gonna play the gotcha game we're not going to Annex to the city until we know what's going to happen but my comment would be as follow as the lines of what Logan and Mike are talking about and um you know I think just from my perspective on the council I think one thing that the letter that you sent Logan uh it's obvious that Joe responded to in comments but I think if we were to take this letter and use it as a negotiating Point um in responding from a city's perspective if you're looking for something formal we've talked about it but we can put something as a suggestion we could put something and writing responding back to the to um the council's the city's position on it but at the same time I have yet to hear anybody that doesn't want to do it you didn't hear it we haven't said it you've done your marketing studies you know what can go in there otherwise you wouldn't be coming to us to Annex so there's all positive things happening here so and I know when I talked to you you Joe and Linda back in June earlier this year we talked about the future land use map and I we talked about a lot of detail about the orderly annexation agreement we had that with the township and that's what makes this thing move and there's no question we need to move on it nobody's saying we don't want to do it I've yet to hear anybody unless you've heard it I haven't heard it from anybody so if your marketing study your traffic count everything is saying yeah if we can do it and you send us the petition we rezone we Annex and reone in the same evening and we move forward after that we come back with the development agreement and that's negotiable Logan says it we all know it's negotiable but I think one thing the fees is is a misunderstanding if you will it's like residential with Hamilton yes there's fees but those are all paid by the people that buy theill building permits the whack the sack piff those are all part of the building permits but you're going to know what they are in the development agreement you're going to know what they are in the city but the building the people that build cus a building permit to build the gas station or they're going to tell us how much water they're using so we can decide what that fee is going to be for the whack there's going to tell me how many erus are working there or what the capacity is so those are all things that have worked out in the devel development agreement everybody everybody says it's a go and I haven't heard anybody saying it's not a goal please send us the annexation petition and we'll kick things off can I say something Lee I was in one of the things that was pointed out here is you were asking about the about the timeline it's going to take to do this and and then that annexation agreement number six spells that out it's from it says it's within 30 days the receipt of the annexation resolution the Minnesota office of administrative hearings shall order the annexation is properly described so once we once the once the uh goes through the process here of going through the the public the public hearing and then approved by the city council for the annexation and it's got 30 days after that another thing that ought to motivate you guys I would think a little bit is two years look how much money you not collected in property taxes that would be coming into your doors if this that's a given that's why I want to get this thing moving ahead and and you know it was stuck I just want to get it unstuck and let's let's go y so I'm going to be unbiased so I'm new to the counil but I I also want to respect the residents because they value the process so if we haven't followed the process we're going to hear it and it's unfair for them um personally I have a data storage unit in the back of my yard right and so I want to make sure that our residents are not dealing with that so if we're not following the process then shame on us and I understand that there's frustration because it's taken this long and I emphathize for you but I also want to make sure that we're doing our due diligence to our residents and and if we're not doing that I'm sorry but I just I can't support that because that's what we've heard loud and clear through all of these developments that we need to hear our residents and we need to act on it and they need to be part of that discussion absolutely absolutely agree oh I I mean I'm willing I'm sure Joe and I are willing to have a meeting with them to move it forward I mean I've already said that in an email that I replied um seems like we're all willing to do that but um I think you guys should just discuss it as much as you want and then just end the meeting and then they'll be left with that with whatever you say um you know I just don't want I frankly I'm a little just cards on the table here I'm a little concerned about that objection letter that we received in the packet you know um I think you know you need to give the residents a fair opportunity to be heard on it even if there's large support um statute requires it and and when the Hamilton thing started we thought that was going to be approved it seemed like it was going to be approved and then it wasn't approved and I'm just concerned that if you don't follow the process that could set the city up I think we've had I didn't draft any of your prior development agreements other than the um most recent two sisters which was just a very very minor development um they were all done before my time but they all ended up in litigation I think almost all of them maybe not all of them um all the way to the Supreme Court in one and so it's important that those Agreements are dra drafted well they're not this is kind of off topic here but that they're they're done correctly that you give you know um consideration to them and that you're not promising things without knowing you know what the de development entails um you know that's caused a lot of problems for the city and there's currently one that the league of LMC is defending you on and an old development agreement that's still coming up to this day so just be really careful and I'm trying to I prepared a um months ago now I prepared at at Jason or Sunny's request a template development agreement for the city to use moving forward so that the city could review that template and and approve it as their as their template to move forward with with all developments that way we have something that developers know um what the city council is going to use and what the you know the basic template obviously it's tweaked for each individual development and so I'd strongly recommend the city do that I think a lot of cities do that I think it's a good idea and I'm trying to push you guys into Marie's make I I take Marie's comments you know to Heart there and I think that's correct I think what she's saying is correct you've gota you've gota um follow process and make sure that the process is important and that you're you know you're not deciding things before there's applications and you're not you know doing things out of order and doing things highly unusual and and so I think that's that's all I can say about it I will um be happy to work with them if they want to work on it I get their I get their frustration um so other developers have had frustration in oronoko too you don't have many staff and that's going to cause problems obviously so um but Joe and I were certainly what we've T discussed it we met only once about it but I think we're willing to work on it with them all the partners um probably a couple questions probably cou statements hav come to a lot of meetings and you know I see positive things happening it's just in circle and I think we need to break that chain we both need move ahe positively because this is a very important development for the city we came stood before the council and Eda and whatnot and told you guys what we wanted to do happened to be is it Cynthia so Eda or whatever two-page document Joe laid out exactly what we wanted to do she was at a meeting here and she says oh I have a community survey this is what we want it was bullet point for bullet point for bullet point we've had the public meeting I've heard absolutely no negative response from anybody as far as the road not going through your customers requested that your neighbors requested that we're trying to meet their expectations I sat right there where you're sitting at a meeting and I was told that there would be no fees I said great that's awesome now if I'm understanding you right you're talking maybe 1.3 maybe 1.5 could be higher than that could be lower than that I run a retail business I've never asked a customer to pay about this much and I don't know what it's going to be okay that's not how I run my business and it's 54 years in August I've been at it a while now when I listen to you uh Ryland and I'm not being argumentative I'm nervous as hell okay so just take that into account these fees that you're asking to pay are you asking us to come up with $2 million and pay the city to hook on to a pipe that already exists or did I just hear you clearly that these are something that the city assesses to the property owners after they buy the property I'll take that um let Jo respond please there is no assessment but there are Wastewater fees in the form of a plant investment fee a sewer availability fee and then on the water side there's a water availability fee okay and they are assessed the Wastewater fees are assessed on the basis of equivalent residential units that are going to happen within the development okay uh the water is assessed on a water availability fee in the past the city has had a policy of collecting those fees in conjunction with the issuance of a building permit now I went through these fees with your team in August I gave you a copy of um the fees and talked through that and I also told you and I don't maybe maybe didn't register because you're looking at her thinking about other things but we've we've always done that in oronoko the fees are collected with the building permit okay so that that is a big advantage to the developer because you don't have to front all that money that's what I want to clarify you're not asking our developers our our team our our uh members here you're not asking us for money it's something that will be collected from the people that buy the land correct for those three feet pieces yes so you're not asking us to come up with millions of dollars from the developers to the city no okay that I think is what's been a little bit unclear okay so some cities do do that well and I'm does that here to understand more because literally I am paying $65 a day on the loan that I took out to buy this land that's Saturday Sunday Monday Wednesday I'm a little bit motivated to move this along okay is is there a way we can get them guys a copy of the fee schedule so they can see no that's that's not a part of what they would be doing got some of the fees in there I've not seen it no the other thing is is when we get into this application I read your flow chart for application we understand there's a 4% fee to the township because they're going to lose tax revenue we understand that we've got it but when I look on the on the website I see a two-page application for annexation to the city I get an email last week that has a 52 page application for annexation to the city I believe I don't know what that is do you guys know what that is two pages yeah is the um is the application it's the U annexation petition for annexation that's what mic wrote up for you I thought that Logan had submitted or I thought whth had submitted all the necessary paperwork that you guys needed I thought that was already done they did submit the um zoning application I think within two days Jason denied it because it was deemed incomplete we yeah it didn't have a date on it I believe or insequential there was a lot of stuff that was inet that was immediately given to them within like you said a couple days why it was being denied what's going on with that just for clarification that application was not submitted by W South we we understand that Logan I talked to Jace about that so to the gentleman speaking you need to work with your engineers you're hiring them they do these all the time and they'll help you submit things and draft things I think that would make this go a lot easier is if you have them help you with that and that's normally what we see happen I I would say every time that's what we see happen so what is this 52 page application that we don't know I have no idea I have no idea what that is the affid I mean send it back so we can see it Jason one sent it out was attached to an email that I got I have honestly no idea what you're talking if you can forward it send it back to me I hundreds of emails in the last couple weeks I can't tell you but I thought that it was an application that was that came from an email from you that I was CCD on okay well with with the annexation part of it if you go to the map and you go to everything else which is the total annexation of what's going on with oroko it probably is 30 six pages maybe I don't know with the all the details you know what I'm trying to say R without you're not talking the orderly annexation agreement oh you know when you go to the map so if you take the orderly annexation agreement which is short but then when you put the map that there is and all the details that go along with it that's another page could have been something that way but no so i' like to explain just a little bit kind of help with this million dooll figure you're talking about so I'll take for example Hamilton Real Estate they want to put in aund six some units so from a residential standpoint there's a you know their erus is pretty you know it's one per lot the black depends on the size of the lot for the water and the sewer so those are all kind of in his mind he knows when he goes out to sell that lot he can tell that owner that's going to buy the lot there's probably $15,000 wrapped up in the fees on your building permit so you take that 15,000 times his 100 Lots that's a lot of money it's not his money and that's that's the money he needs to collect trying to clarify because we partners are trying to wrap our head around okay we have to as developers have to pay the city $2 million for what it's just all part of our building permits I appreciate you claring and what the city does at least in my experience on all of our developments is that you do pay for basically engineering and legal fees to develop the development agreement to review your applications to review your plat to review the hydraulic report to review the geotechnical report to review a traffic reported if there is to you know work through all that stuff with you that's not a cost that the city Bears it's directly associated with your project and the city will ask you to Bear those cost but only to the tune of what it typically costs them they're not in it to make money they're just looking to cover their costs that's a little bit of the question that I had when I run over the minutes before the or the agenda before I left town today and I fear that we may be getting ourselves in a position where we sign a check does not have dollar mon on it when it comes to these fees that you want to charge us well they will be spelled out in the development agreement I I want to just make that clear Joel I'm not here to argue I'm not here to talk in circles anymore I want a straight line going forward cost Millions time is stop let's all get on the same train let's all go to the same place if we need help if you need help for goodness sakes let us know what we got to do let's quit pointing fingers tired of being on this Mir I'm getting on a damn escalator and I'm going hey I want you guys to get on that ask you later with us can you help us thank you for your time so you know kind of summarize what we've talked about I think what Logan and Mike and Joe are in agreement to kind of have some discussions we can have little discussions and for your perspective well from the and it's the next thing on our agenda is the cost reimbursement security agreement for the Gold Rush Crossing if I may on that that was not included in the packet as I'm looking at it here it didn't get added so we may need to table that so it can be actually reviewed just in all the documents I had it's just didn't get off and put in so can't expect you guys to make a decision on that when it wasn't included so okay we'll table that discussion uh for the next meeting but I just if you'd like to explain it though because I know explain yeah so it little made reference to it and Joe so what we do is we we have to cover our injuring fees otherwise it comes out of our resident's budget so every security agreement we make for every development we have U for example a house or like um two sisters or Glenn motor coach there's an basically essentially it's an es account for like 55,800 and those go towards paying the fees for our engineering the development agreement from our lawyers pay for that that's very difficult for us to budget right so really what that is is an agreement that from day one when you submit an application we start meeting we start reviewing things it reimburses the city for those costs between the first submitt or the first meeting and the date that the development agreement gets signed it covers the city's cost for that increment of time and those Professional Services that are expended then so the city doesn't essentially get left holding the bag for all the cost with the development that you know the devel veler could choose to pull the plug or it may not move forward so that is the purpose of that simple agreement and the city does that with its developers and then once the development agreement uh is executed it essentially spells out how things are pro to proceed from them them so what's that upfront cost for them then in that scenario uh like well it varies depending on the size of the what being developed with this one we had put it around 10,000 just because the estimated cost that were going to go into it now that is like they said an escro that money gets put there and then we bill out of that and then if it's not used it's not used it's it's back to them it's not to us it's just so we know we can have our bases covered with the amount of work I mean we're already putting in thousands of dollars right now on this project with between Joe and Mike and everybody's time so it's it's things like that that help those costs like you said it's not a to make money it's just so we know that there's funding there for us to get reimbursed for those Associated costs at the end of the submitt whatever money is not used that's returned back to the development so do you have any I just think a couple comments uh thanks for the time because I didn't think I would be here at 10:00 um but at least if we get somewhere it'll be worth it but but I think from the team standpoint is they are paying for their own engineering they are paying for their own attorneys and they think that you probably should pay for yours as a city so that's a conflict that we need to probably iron out here we're deeper than a few thousand in paying our two people there and how much yeah were in the major yeah so so to be asked um to pay yours is a thorn I guess with the team and um this document that we have not seen or didn't even know about it until the meeting started is that normal it is it is okay so we we have no clue what you're discussing or voting or whatever and that's normal the agreement is normal yes normally it's in the packet tonight it was not so the council is choosing not to act on it okay so we had no knowledge of it again that's normal well it's sent to you yes you would have to sign it too yeah okay took a lot of your time thank you yeah thanks for listening do they have a copy of the the two-page agreement to get started yeah that was emailed to him make sure the anation yeah they have that so if they could walk away with one next step what is that they need to complete document what'll happen is they'll fill they'll fill that agreement out they'll submit it to City it'll come to City it'll come to it'll get sent to Planning and Zoning planning and Zing I just want them it seems like there's miscommunication happening of what was submitted what needs to happen so if they can walk away with one the first Next Step like it's pretty clear of what we're asking of them and then the steps forward will will continue but again it seems like there's a lot of um history with this and frustration on both sides so again I think if if we can do that next step again I think that's the the thing we need to do because I don't think we're going to get a solution that's aable to everybody right here we're on C1 that says motion to be made to approve a reimbursement and security agreement and I think that's tonight that's what we just tabled because Doc and we don't know what it is and the agreement was not in the packet can we get a copy of that of course yeah we'll send that to you typically it's got to be approved by Council before we s submit it out to you guys to review to accept or not this isn't like the development it's a it's a much shorter just compressed four page document that is very it's compressed in what it is and it's written by Mike and Joel and then Council gives the approval for it as the starting point and then it moves forward that's typically how the csas have worked in my time here and I could be wrong but I'll turn to Joe because they got more about you know if if we get into this situation that there is to do that you know when we're trying to move this along a little bit quicker you know you could also request to have a special meeting that we could get together to go over just that to move that along so you don't have to wait another 30 days to be able to get moving on that one so we can move as quick as possible it takes us three days to publish for special meeting okay just so you know okay off of that and then we can do it so it's not the day that you requested it's a day after so you know there's some technicalities but we could do that to move this along as quick as we can for you guys so it doesn't just continue to sit there we do business practices that we practice we do have to have things in writing before we agree to Annex to the city and I think we would feel the same we would want things in in written documentation so we can hold the same accountable and you guys accountable too so I think I think a special meeting probably would be wise to make sure we're following steps yeah I will say um my apologies for my conduct earlier tonight that's not my personality at all um but the presentation started out very poor and we listened to somebody talked for about 30 minutes and nothing was positive about our people and our project that we're trying to work on and and then it followed up after that so it didn't start very well presentation was awful but let's just get to the finish line thank you can I give you maybe a line of personal advice so if we're gonna do this and we're going to work together then we all need to come to the table with a different attitude big time so well everybody everybody not finger pointing everybody what happened in the past we can't change it I think I think we have to have a new vision on what we're trying to do moving forward the only the only thing I'll say is we have to do things the legal way and that's really important to me that we don't break the law so and I I don't we have to do things the legal way and if there's requests to break the law it's it's that's not going to go well so you know we'll work with you of course I sent an email saying we'll work with you I just I in fact I asked several questions in that email that I didn't really get answers to but I think I get it now um because keep in mind I'm an outsider here I wasn't involved with this for two years so you know I get something slapped in our desk that is demanding very ex what I would consider extreme demands for development um that's difficult to look at that and say you know so we'll we'll work with you on it as best we can but it might not be questions for months that have never been answered including Joe as one of Jason today we ask at planning and zoning nobody's ever asked me anything so this is the first time involved and I know I've done lots of developments I represent 12 cities we do development agreements all the time we do developments all the time you know I know what it's supposed to look like and this is not what it's supposed to look like I'm not saying it's entirely the developers fault cuz I don't really know what happened but um you know this is important for the city you have to understand that you know the city city residents it's important to them that we start doing these and I say start because there's been a decades long history well before the five people that are on the council now decades long history of maybe not doing the best on these developments and it's really cost the city financially many times um and I've reviewed the after the fact I've reviewed those mistakes and and it's important to me that we do the right process the legal process you know and that sort of thing and so that's really where I'm coming from process is important and um Marie council member Marie had said that I agree with what she said there so that's really yeah I agree with Marie also I think your your attitude now is so much better and understanding than it was for the first 30 minutes well the the email we got set the tone for my attitude yeah just but I don't know if all of us know about your back and forth emails that you thought were threats and Logan thought was threats you know I have no idea I I think the other only other thing I'll say substantively is if you've had conversations with the township about developing in the township we need to be a part of those conversations because we have we have the authority to prove that not the township and I don't know I mean that development or that annexation was sign signed a long time ago I don't know what they what they think or what they don't know and you know that kind of thing and we've always worked well with the township since I've been here we have a very good relationship with the township and I want to make sure that um especially with the Wastewater project we've worked really well with the township I want to make sure that we're on the same page with them um about what's what can and cannot happen here so anyway I'm not well either I'm got the flu so I'm GNA sign off is that okay Jason thanks Mike thanks Logan yep thanks I also have the flu I will uh I will sign off we're done okay um well let's move on then next item is our employee Relations Committee Mar would you want to explain the background there yep I have two um called to action so the first one is is looking at approving the updated job descriptions for the admin assistant and the city clerk position um So based on some conversations that we had in our special meeting um I was able to contact a few staffing agencies in Rochester their pricing model to hire temp um for that admin assistant is a 1.5 to 1.55 times their hourly rate um so for instance if we would hire um an employee at 25 bucks an hour we would actually pay them 38 bucks an hour so over a 4month period that would cost us in addition about a 23 um, just to have them parttime for four months so based on the positive of doing an agency would be they handle all benefits they handle recruitment they handle if someone's not working out they do all the interviews um they do all the drug testing um and they do all the evals and the appraisals um but with all of that considered um obviously we have budget constraints I would suggest that we approve both of those positions and post them ourselves um and then if that is approved the next item is really looking at a employee Relations Committee which would help with the interview process um as well so I'll stop there um questions uh yeah and uh job subcription that there was um on the one with the administrative assistant which is on page to 196 okay you had down here for associate degree okay an AA degree and that for the assistant okay and you had a colle or a high school degree for the clerk I think that they should maybe be switched around the other way okay is that preferred or is that required uh I would say that that it would be well you want to have a a high school degree or or GDA that would be required I would we have preferred and required in there and so this is the minimum requirements you have here on 196 on page two okay yep that was the only thing that I kind of went that's that's a little bit tough for the assistant part of it that makes sense okay so to put those other than that I think everything went do um the other thing else I was looking to one of the requirements we're going to need on on page 198 which is on the city clerk we need to have somebody that's a notary public okay because we offer that service there is with the city that I think that that's important to be able to put in not that doesn't take hardly anything I'm just saying but I that was one of the things that I wanted to have for you know that that we we mentioned some of that that's in there that was all I was just going through the rest of it was excellent I think you did a very very good job we could put that in there one because I didn't have one before I started and I got one with but I'm just saying I mean so but the rest of it was very good on everything you do next thank you yeah it only takes 120 bucks in an application to Secretary of State to get that so I again that was just you did a great job I mean everything else were very very good thank you very much first motion then to approve those two yeah please make a motion I'll make a motion to approve those two job descriptions with those with those yeah with those changes yeah and some word I read about where you're going post I don't know nor do news and record newspap that's our regular paper right we got a lot of places we post I mean News Record um we advertise on LinkedIn we can advertise on indeed we advertise on Facebook on our city page post it here at City Hall um and then I'm sure there's other places the MC we can advertise on as well um there's a lot of espe well actually for both positions for LMC yeah any other questions I think it's excellent moving on we need the staff yes see other questions all in favor signif I by saying I I I close on the next item y I can talk I take off thanks for your input yes thank you so on the next item we are looking at proposing to rename the Personnel committee to the employee Relations Committee to really modernize its purpose of fostering positive employee relations to be able to support the city of orono's growth um from a employee perspective and then also making sure that we're effectively utilizing our resources in terms of people and so there's a committee Charter in there and really their main function for an employer Relations Committee would be focused on recruitment hiring um and making look um making sure that we're looking at proactive 360 interviews so what are we doing well how do we improve how do we um cross cover all of those things in a more proactive way versus waiting for exit interviews also making sure that we're recognizing and rewarding exceptional performance um also looking at compensation and benefits so they are um Fair as well as competitive and then also looking at the HR um policies so really having kind of an oversight to those making edits making sure that we have kind of to your point all of like the appendex at the end of what's changing and when we've change that and so this committee would be made up of three members so either two council members or a council member and the mayor and then the city administrator so trying to keep it small and Nimble and then the proposal would be that theyd meet the second Monday of the month but that could be rearranged um but I think that this would be a way to really think about Staffing um and what we need in a more Collective way and try to to create it um to really Foster our employees that have worked here as well as making sure that we're thinking about ways to improve that so we can keep our our staff here as long as we can excellent that's uh appreciate the time you've been spending very I make a a motion to to approve this this new employee relation committee second who's the second [Music] R I like the way it's been outlined and also the subject titles or the subject under each of the titles I think is very clear and and I think it's definitely something we need and I think the employees would like would like seeing it too I think the one thing to the one thing to note is like typical like HR responsibility so like Jason with time cards and performance Improvement plans would still be managed by the manager this would be able to be kind of that higher level of of looking at things but the day-to-day operations would still be managed by the manager um to follow kind of chain of command from an HR perspective so not trying to overset boundaries but making sure we're about it in a collective View and just on that meaning like so like Kane is the supervisor manager of his area oversees his and then I the next level up overseeing the rest y any other comments same none all those in favor signify by saying I I iose first paragraph second last s second sorry this will need to get added to the resolution for Council oh assignments assignments as well just you're and it looks like right now it's got the the meeting date for the second Monday of each month so that doesn't work be determined because we don't know who's going to be on it with what's I think first I think ryland's got a lot lot on his plates I don't know how much he more he needs to add to that too but all right um next next item is um but we can add that to next month right for the finish it okay we can add that the next month instead of tonight or what you well it should be the r should be assigned with the rest of the council roles tonight should be added on we've already voted on it so gotta to be added on since it's now V on okay and the date and with whoever is on it we'll put the second Monday on there as attentive date that can be changed later by the whoever's group but we have the dates on the rest of them so should be put on there as well Daniel yes your legal services section um yeah so first I think first we'll do the standardizing agenda item submission um so I created a document that kind of helps um outline expectations and it easy to submit items um at this point it's it's it can be emailed to Jason um and unfortunately the submit button isn't working the way that I wanted it to but um but um as you can see I attached the doc and actually Marie used the the document to submit one of hers as well um but basically this would just standardize the way that we submit items to add to the agenda um help Jason put them where they need to be um and then with this it would be a creation of a new section uh for items that need legal counsel and having that section move to the very front of the agenda as well so they'll help organize items appropriately minimizing costs um for legal fees I think that's good I was looking at this when I I I pulled it was it done as a PDF that I pulled out of mine so I I couldn't do anything with it so okay so the the current document that you would have will be a uh editable okay as check boxes and you can type in into the um you can type into the text Fields um and then I'll work on the submit button it's supposed to work as the clear button works great but the submit button doesn't work the way it's supposed to right now it's supposed to just send it straight to Jason's email and be done with it uh but I haven't gotten an idea if that actually works and I think it broke my email no that was only thing that I saw you know CU I think it's it's a good way to take a look at it your computer you're saying yeah go through settings and get it all squared away so the for the for the time being it'll be this PDF document um as you see we're going to discuss um kind of a soft go live later with the diligent program and this document will be the header when we all get logged in to diligent to submit so when when we go into to add we'll be adding our own items fill this out and then it gets added to the agenda uh well it's gets sent to Jason to approve and then either way it's the same document it's just going to that one will be a word format okay until diligent can actually get uh the programming to recognize a PDF form if we like the word document we can leave it as is so um I think the only difference between this document and um the one that will be on diligent is I move section five public notice and Outreach actually underneath for city clerk's office use I feel like that's probably more appropriate for them to determine if something needs um public hearing notification or whatever than than us guessing yes or no so I did move that under um but this gives you an option to attach your um documents and it allows us to have all the information um well up front so when we're looking at packets we have everything laid out spelled out for us so I think it's a great idea I think it will help us with streamlining decisions um and documenting decisions as well as from a uh transparency for residents to know what's being discussed and what's that background um so they can decide if they're going to come or not to a meeting I think it also when we're putting something on the agenda it gives us a chance to really think about what we're putting down there okay and the reasoning behind it okay because we're not really trying to know which waste time okay but I think it makes us think too yeah okay if there's something we're missing then let's go find that before we submit it to what goes on to the council yeah Bri are you saying this submitt form would be in the packet I think it's a I I think it I think it should be like your briefing document and then your supporting information yeah and the the diligent software um you actually have to fill out there's two two or three main um text boxes you have to fill out in the diligent software they are included in this um they're actually included in this document so what I did was I copied from this document pasted it in to diligent and it when I talked to Jason he said that it came through it looked looked really good and then that actually part of that actually populates automatically once he approves it to to the the packet to the the agenda so you've been working this well the diligent part I've been working with Jason on this and I've been kind of spitballing with him to make sure that like it's not Overkill or it's he's he would have enough information to put in there and um if if it's rejected or there's a question again let us know Jason yeah it'll get so what'll happen is you'll submit it an email will be sent to me that it was submitted I'll review it and then if I if it's approved you'll get notified if it's submitted back it'll say rejected and anything needs to be adusted you'll get an email notification saying hey this got sent back to you fix I mean that that way especially as we get started on this to make sure we're we're doing it right so so the document everybody will have access to um immediately and we can either I can either send those out or Jason could probably just send that out for you to save onto a desktop or that's what I was trying to do because I thought it was but came PDF and I went oh that's yeah I saved mine just in word and typed because we were having some issues with it like it wouldn't bring it down and wrap the text so You' write something and it was like off the page yeah it was just going off the page and then drinking the fun but it was keeping it I did get that straightened out so you guys are talking about diligent I'm not familiar with that program that's the new software we got that was approved for that I know we had we had approved one okay so that's that's it okay so this is just coming out new then yeah this is what we've been we've been working on it for the last couple months four month whatever we've been four five months working through getting everything ready to go and we're finally getting to the point where we're going to start going live with it to to use a c yeah no I think it's you know hey we've got to move ahead you know so make a motion to approve the implementation of stage one a what was the official again standardizing agenda item submission submission you made a motion on that yes it did I'll second that just for stage 1 a that is yeah we got to start any other comments seeing none all those in favor signify by saying I iose approved good job D so next one is the legal service section of the council agenda if so this will fall right in line so if that check box as legal services are requested then um what I'd like to do is create a a new a heading um and after public notice is that we have as soon as we can hit those items that Mike needs to address and then send him on his way yeah the same thing I think with with Joe too if we could do that because I think that would be helpful too because we pay for their time yeah you know and I think the more we can do Zoom with Mike I think he'd appreciate it more we just have to drive all the way up here yeah there's and I know they if I speak on that I know the one thing most of Joe stuff the water stuff is all and right up there at the front no I'm just trying to say to make it where we can do it and use the zoom more and I think that Joe would appreciate that too if he doesn't have to be here yeah you know that he can do it that way it's definitely nice to have one of them here tonight and not both of them online trying to yeah um so that would minimize the hopefully that would minimize legal fees by not keep I think that was what I was it's great yeah just for your information mik charges an hourly rate versus Joe is $50 a meeting okay so there is a difference between the two yeah services so we would we would want to move the legal the end meeting we should made bus and I know that our agenda is formed in a specific way but this would be creating a whole new section that's fine I think we can adjust that I mean it's that's not cast in stone I think that you know we're trying to move it ahead and to be better is that right Jason or well I have to say from the city standpoint it is in city ordinance so at some point we will have to address this in the future of amending the city ordinance or in my perspective I think it should just be um that that specific portion of the ordinance should just be re Ed and taken away like I don't I don't know why that's an ordinance to begin with I've never seen that before the layout of how the council does their packet is not something I've ever been familiar with so again it'll need to be addressed in the future but I don't think it's a a huge issue if we're making the the motion to add something to it um as long as we I think take the steps to address it I'd say within this next year um to address that ordinance I think we'll be okay that ordinance is 30.20 for your reference that's called it's it's not a it's value of an ordinance is minimal I think changed a lot of things actually an ordinance or is it just a resolution well it's an ordinance right now ordinance I make a motion to approve the creation of a legal service section of a city agenda second any other comments see none all in favor signify by saying I this approved for I I'm just going to briefly touch on I which is um stage 1 B which is to start looking at devices um laptops tablets um that we can go and move more paperless um printing get rid of printing I think our budget for printing last year was like $10,000 and I know that like for the the budget meetings we were getting giant pieces of paper um and so it's just um we can either table this one till next yeah time or you can thinking about email me individually please on like what your preferences would be what what kind of devices that that you would need to replace PL the paper so my thought is um right now is um with tablets you can get stylist so you can actually edit your all your documents right on on the screen um and so that would come out of budgeted money um but if you want to email me individually of of your thoughts on that I still have to look into like what we can use um with the system that we currently have if Mac Android and Windows all work with this um and we're buing $500 a piece yeah I believe it's it's 500 um can you can you buy for 500 bucks well some of well so the lowest from what I've looked into the lowest cost of entry for something like that would would end up being an iPad but I think that that what might be the highest likelihood of a compatibility issue is Apple devices here but I could be wrong you got one over there though I got one here but I'm not trying to like link it to that yeah like or or they talk well to their they talk well to their own yeah and part of the other part of the other part will be looking at the AI portion of it which is um um I don't know that's on here or not see yeah I think okay and so with you yeah yeah either yeah what what you would like to see in a device so I can look across and see kind of what would work um software would be cost so most of the stuff would come onto like if you go if we go Apple most of that software is already embedded in the product which is really nice for that you go Windows you might you might have additional fees for um um other software add software so for for when you when you get into the budget laptops you usually are stripping away a lot of that stuff that would come with a more expensive um next item is here yep so the next item is the diligent dis discussion so this will soft go live for next meeting so I'd be looking for a couple of volunteers um to sit down with either myself or Jason go through that program uh learn how to submit through that program and for February's items will actually submit the volunteers will submit through diligent and anybody who's who doesn't want to will just submit using the form email I'd like if we're going to get into this I want to I want to learn so put me down there's a volunteer that so have patience but yeah yeah no and either you'll work with or Jason um I don't probably me probably me it's it's easy it's pretty straightforward I'll be part of it but I'll be in the background yeah that's we would just need to make sure that we get all of the password requests sent out if they haven't been already yeah and I guess you could probably look at that the authority to to kind of see where that's in there um I'm I'm pretty sure they're ready to go they just have to go into the have to go into the menu probably settings and yeah yeah so I'll look into that they said I I full transparency I was on a phone call with the diligent people in Jason and they set me up as um an admin for it currently so I have the rights to if you need can I just use my regular laptop now yeah absolutely yeah yeah the device thing that doesn't have to come for a while but we'd like to try and phase out and and get away from print printing as much as we do keep me in the loop too for the dates for the training yes okay okay I was volun told so yeah Vol all right [Music] um I think that's it um the memo yeah the so if [Music] you take a peek at the memo just some foreshadowing for things to come one thing that I'm looking at doing and this is why the devices are going to be important um is I'm looking for a program that we can use that will automatically take notes for us and for our committees the one that I found right now that seems to be work best will actually log in as a person on a phone call and it can determine who's speaking um and it will transcribe our entire meeting what we Jason weren't we looking at that before we talked about that last year some other ones in the past but they're not to the level they need to be they okay because I know that we had talked about this last year transcribing just most of hard to distinguish people read AI was one of them the one I'm looking at is otter Ai and supposedly that's the best one for iners meetings like we have so it'll it'll be able to um log in here and listen and it'll say speaker one speaker two speaker three um I've used the read AI a couple times it's just amazing how it transcribes everything for b um a couple of cool things with the otter AI is it gives you the full transcript you can go in and say give me a breakdown of what was discussed because I don't want to look at the whole thing otter AI like the animal OT t t r. a um it is a paid service um it's actually not terrible for what it would offer if it works the way we want it to um we get a trial period there's a trial period And what I was thinking is um one of the shorter meetings that we have I don't know if it'll be parks and trails or you know have roads call a meeting just to try it I don't know um but the trial is limited to 30 minutes for a me so that'll never work for us you have to tell everybody else be careful what you say because it will be transcribe it that's um it'll actually give you a searchable database of your minutes so I can say uh what did Mike say about this and it'll come back and spit out the summary of of everything so if it works it's something that would have to be trial but if it works it could streamline our minute taking for our committees for us give us searchable and it'll be instantly done which is great to me yeah the only human work would probably go back and say speaker one was Paul speaker two was Jim something like that um there's other programs if we were all to go Microsoft teams and transcribe it doesn't do a good job of determining who's speaking so we would almost have to have like a earbud or microphone in for that to actually function and be in that meeting as well so um anyway we can move on from that but I'm just looking into its very initial stages and I'll probably come forward with um a few free trials that I might hop in and uh try and trial with some of our meetings or do the first half hour of one of our meetings here and just see how it how it performs it's I mean we last year it's like yeah we get something to make it better for everybody so yeah this program you should be able to drop this YouTube video just take the file drop it into their server and it'll transcribe the old meeting as well so for catching up on meetings it could be a potentially good what's what's the subscription price on that um the way that I foree it is is we would need one user and it would be city of waro and it would just be used for each committee or um and it's $17 a month it's all that's it a pro that's cheap and it's it's super cheap and it gives a whole bunch of other feedback like how many minutes speaker one spoke in the meeting and what their General tone was I mean probably stuff we don't need but it's it's a pretty neat little tool that it could be could be useful but it could streamline our our meetings and hopefully not yes the the the impact with that be $450 a year but we wouldn't necessarily then 450 is cheap compared to what you're going to pay for somebody to turn around to sit there and take minutes taking minutes or trying to catch up on minutes thinking what did we do we did three and it was like 750 bucks for three of those that we did for the old ones I mean so that that's that's and that was a professional company they were good I mean no no I know that I'm just saying looking comparing the cost yeah yeah it's come a long way in the last couple of years and I think teams is going to be able to do speaker recognition that would be like probably the highest cost of Entry lowest cost of main maintaining to do something like that um but this otter AI is it we could always do this one if then team comes around later on yeah flip to that one if we think that that one's going to be better and give it a try okay that's a good discussion let's go to the next item which is a looking at our annual resolution 2025 city of War local official designations two openings that are not fed you're looking at page 210 you hacket so we look at our official designations um you'll see Minnesota statutes recognized just about everywhere as and so that's something we continue to U need to follow the recommendations of our attorney previous meeting so there was yeah there was only thing I was looking at is is awas and you we've been through this a couple times on making sure that that we know before you sign contracts on that one which is a Weare and also you know just what we went over last year too if we need to do that again but if you want to bring that back that soon so as we look at the um the different titles um I would like to uh consider the council approve Marie as being our mayor Pro Tim and U for the authorized signature uh myself as the mayor being signature for this coming year but we we've already been through that last twice last year okay and and the answer was no and the council agreed on that one so sorry [Music] I mean I'm a Minnesota statute we feel like we already went through the whole Minnesota statute thing and and went through and and and we just did that in beginning we did that in November and and you know I even made a copy of that too if you want to go back through I remember okay so I you know if you want to go back there we'll we'll we'll do it but it's it's the answer is it's been taken away from your Island for a reason okay so what crosses IES would need to be put in place to feel comfortable maybe comfortable is not the right word but to to to do this again I think I think we need to think about what's the right checks and balances for all in this space and I don't know if there's a suggestion to get us there um we can't change what happened in the past I think it was admitted that we we made some mistakes there but I mean what what would be a compromise or things put in place to make sure that it's being followed What would make you feel comfortable I mean you if that would be we have to have three signatures that when we do it and I'd feel comfortable could that be an inum process until we you know six eight month or four months or whatever try it for to make sure that we have checks so we got to order new checks and redo stuff that's not that I'll be honest from the city Side that's not to be I don't believe that's feasible and realistic so I'm going to say that from my perspective as a city administrator just doing that we have the two spots for the check signing so I think another solution should be considered before we try to throw on a third okay then I would I would say let me continue on signing checks for maybe the next six months and then and then from that point revisit it revisit it okay and then be open to it way way that I look at this is um despite having despite having check signing privileges removed Ryland was reelected and I I think that um that speaks volumes and I think we probably need to steer back towards Mike's recommendation just so you know when we did this was after he was already elected that we went back through this in November he had already been elected at that time but his term hadn't started his new term hadn't started we still looked at that at what was going on at that time and I don't know that that's super relevant because his new term hadn't started um I think we need to find ways to move forward ex um Beyond just bringing up old issues um we're all in the seats because we were elected here and I think we need to find Solutions um that move us forward and not just continue patterns um so that would be a thought process of what what are things that need to happen that we're all in the same page that we're documenting and we're doing that cross communication so that everyone's comfortable with with these things I think I I appre I appreciate I can appreciate your comment about being old issues but so is the fire department audit that's old issue too that we haven't come to a resolution on it so I'm sorry I don't quite follow your well well we're still talking about you know the fire department's an old issue too Marin calling this an old issue and well the fire department's an old issue too with the it's bringing bringing the audit forward in that so I mean it it it's worked fine I don't think I've ever missed anything that there is even less than a day for signing everything and I've signed up to this point it's never never been an issue um and I don't know if it's the issue of timeliness I think we want to make sure that we're we're setting people up for success and we're setting up processes for success and you're doing a great job I'm just saying I just wonder if we need to think about like how do we get to the right path and keep it there so whoever is sitting in this seat is following that process it may be Ryland it may be someone else whatever but if we don't have good checks and balances we're always going to wonder what checks suring signed and what money is going out the door so I I I I do think that we need to think about like the process to get us to the right solution versus what happened in the past we can't change that but how do we look forward to the future and we do it as a as a collective group so we're all talking about these things maybe maybe to clear that up maybe what should happen is the bills the bills are in the packet the checks that gave be signed are in the packet each month and that's what happens each month we don't see it till afterwards I don't think they get signed we don't see the those haven't been printed signed that's the thing is they get approved by Council and then they get printed and signed and and and go that way that's the way it's supposed to be done and there's certain things is what we're going to get now after the fact this is before so there's there's certain bills that you by law can pay without Council approval because they've already been approved so your payrolls Your Health Care Dental Care um and then like anything that's outstanding um you know like contracts that are preone there's there's certain things that already fall within they've been given Council permission you have that then there's the approval process with States and laws everything else needs to come before Council before it gets the check is officially signed and and mailed off um no matter what the the amount is could be 75 cents could be $2,000 there still needs to come to Council on the check register which we do every month and have been since I've been here um and that gets in the consent agenda and is is approved in the consent agenda and then that that goes out so I know in the the past there's been sometimes where some of the checks have been signed beforehand some you know and then that's in the consent agenda um to go out because there's a timing issue with some of the bills of oh well this one's due on the 12th well our council meeting is not till the 24th but it's a $20,000 bill that needs to get paid or this or that like and that that's an extreme example but there's certain things that were in the past they've done that and I'm trying to work on getting our dates changed so our bills are due after Council so we're not getting penalized and things like that but that's a process that I need help with which means I need staff for um but it's one of those things like I said I've went through the check register there's there's stuff in there that was due a couple weeks ago but it's one of those they need to be approved by Council so it's it's that's the step I'm taking from our end from the administration is to say okay you know we're we're changing dates if they need to be but all of our checks are going to be coming out after they come through the council packet in the consent agenda so you say there's going to be going forward there's going to be more we're going to see more checks in here in the consent agenda You' they've been there every month we those are always the end on after they had already been signed yeah it's it's going to be the same thing it's just they're not going to be signed yet for some of them so there's something that we have an issue with we can we can take a look at it address it at counil yeah but there's like I said the ones that are signed are your standardized your payroll your like the ones that have already been approved and and I don't think we're talking we don't yeah everything else is will be coming before in the consent agenda in this pack in this check register report get approval you know on on um on trying to to be more and and again I I want to watch on on what there is for um signing especially uh a stuff that got signed for contracts but um as long as we got that before which I think you agree Ryland on that that you know Mike said it's got to come to us before you turn around and do those things and that's Phil start interrupt just real quick but that's like the CSA thing that was to come before Council before it gets signed and put out to them that's all I want to do that you know uh to move ahead okay and and to make things try the other way around R I'll give it back to you I think again I think I think we just need to to but but I appreciate that but I think we just our mindset is my concern is the bottom line is that a resident's going to come you know a lawyer out in our residence they'll come and say why aren't you following your Minnesota statute we got an answer by saying the mayor signed okay now the other thing that there is in the meantime do you get everything signed up to the bank I'll sign whatever there is and that cuz you got to put your signatory back in the bank and get all that stuff with with that paperwor oh with the bank yes okay so until the meantime I'll I'll do that okay yeah if there's anything that's eminent here that I I appreciate that thank you I like think they you know what happened a year and a half ago is is is history um it's noted I recognized it was a mistake and uh we're moving forward so I think that's what I'd like to see happen so I think everyone makes mistakes right we wouldn't be here if we didn't I think this is best practice though I things and if there's something Jason that's like unusual like flagging that so we know we need to talk about XYZ this is you know a normally high for a tree removal right I think I think this is best practice to be able to yeah and I I think this is really good doing ite of I think and I'm sorry it's not in with the packet I literally got it done today I'm trying to catch up no no I I just I I think this is really watching who really wants to look at all these numbers all right well all right there's no more discussion vot a roll call vote ran did you finish off who the second is it you and then the clerk position no it's going to be you until the can I stay on there Ryland for in case you're not around yeah that's fine right huh you got all the paperwork in yeah yeah it's already done there so okay so I just want to make sure done in one all three right Jason yeah give me a second I have M as primary Council sory and councilman Phillips as secondary who made the motion I didn't catch it there was no motion made yet make it quick is can they all be done in one may so so what what I'm having them do is having them list these empty spots on here and then motion to approve it with the which one you on we're only on resolution one there's three v six so I have on there it'll be included in in in the vacant spots here so mayor proam is mar and then um the two SS would be uh Ryland and and and then the future clerk position as well okay you're adding future clur to that me and there's two two lines un [Music] checks so um we need the second then second did I make the motion made the I will second I can't second my own motion done and done I'll second it then I second it com discussion roll call roll call Mayor ior hi councelor penr hi councelor r hi councelor Phillips hi councelor spring hi and next item is our resolution 20252 for resolution approving committee appointments here's here's what I'd like to do Riley I'm taking classes mon Tuesday Thursday and Tuesday Wednesday Thursday I'll take the all of the Monday night alternate classes alternates on here for the alternate it's first I'll take those three Monday night ones the alternates alternate leison the the alternates the alternate counil liaison that one I'm sorry that one you're looking at that or class yeah the went off Paul's volunteering to be the Lea on the alternate liais on for First Responders parks and trails and the fire department SL Fire Relief we need to add the employe relations employee Relations Committee and do we need to address steering committee Ed that's a TVD until we I like to keep fire if I could do we want to address stearing committee or you that's not us no no we don't okay it's just a temporary as we get this stuff done okay I'd like to do a fire um you want me to hang with you Fire Department fire relieved yeah um and and um I was doing I'll do planning and zoning and if I want me to hang around with water and sewer too I'll still do that so I watched that for the last two years so yeah we like to Daniel Marie into I think Jim it's I'm okay I think it's good with the pnz and Daniel if you would want to do pnz that your schedule y so you you got two people for pnz right yeah yes so um I'd like to stay on the water um you want me to be a backup on you I can do Monday so if you're taking fire and first responder I could do parks on Monday I'm not doing first responder I'm just taking fire oh okay I can well want you first responder usually what do they last more than a half hour see what I've been doing Marie go you go to the first respond she 30 minutes s o' you come fine I'm here already so Mar is the backup on Water and Sewer right and you're the your First Responders I'm fine with streets and Roads who's your backup Jo Paul oh okay theni you're going to do so actually Daniel can you do parks and trails that's what Marie was doing but you're Parks how about I thought you were doing first response I can do both I mean if they keep it to a half hour that's what that's what I've been doing is I committ at 6:30 for a half hour over there you have any questions or come over here at 7 I'm fine with Planning and Zoning streets and Roads so down for Eda um I'd like to propose myself staying on it and uh in in light of the eda's comments and what was said Paul there's some really concern and apprehension about having you well I wasn't volunteering for it har I wasn't volunteering for it okay so I Daniel could you pick up Eda I can pick up Eda I either have let's see either Daniel or Marie for Eda we have Daniel place on here so he's yeah he's doing streets and Roads and he's doing streets and streets and Roads one meeting in May Planning and Zoning that's why you got planning I I might have to back out of streets and Roads since it's my neighbors that want all the speed bumps and don't you just don't have now they throw eggs at your house Al know who they are G have po holes put okay Dan are you goingon to do Eda yeah that's fine yes I would like to take that and then we get to our employee Relations Committee um I you know that was I'd like to propose r myself right on Marie on that what committee Public Relation the new the new employee relation employe Relations Committee whatever day works that was Monday with the prop I mean if Monday don't work we can because the only thing we have on Monday is the fire relief thing and the realistically it's the the and I've got that I'm doing pirate if you about that this is the second Monday of the month too pirate is yeah no the employe oh yeah the only thing second Monday is that that's a Township meeting okay so we'd have to be either well it's three us we can meet yeah we can we can find another place to publicly post it and and do it for your FYI is there a reason why there is no Wednesdays gonna have a day off I was gonna ask the same question like why are they only these a wns day is that I don't know why that is that's well before my time I I mean we can talk about whatever works always been nice to kind of have that Wednesday of not having anything yeah know Friday four Friday at 5:30 there AR any Friday yet yeah yeah Wednesdays would be nice I do baseball Tuesdays Thursdays with my kid and boy scouts Mondays but I just won't uh head coach this year and I I will say that is something where night Tuesdays and Thursdays you know but if you but then you pick up Tuesdays and thday that's I mean I will say that's something that all of that can be changed when you get with the groups talk with them and see those are always amendable to change maybe it works for everybody to change the date you know so that's something that can always be done and I know one thing we've talked about with Planning and Zoning is trying to get that date changed because right now the turnaround time is horrible to get stuff in the pack what month it is but usually it's like three or four days that's it you know and it's it's it's really it pushes the packet back constantly so that's something that can be addressed I think specifically Eda should be addressed but you know these are how they are right now but it can change well you know reality maybe just playing in Z you'd be better off coming back to the first Monday of the month well I think what you need to do is talk to the people that are on Planning and Zoning be from here exactly one comment about committee assignments and this is a my thought about going forward not necessarily this year but I think going forward I think it's a good thing to talk about sometime but I feel like there's a um by us being on these committees and I'm speaking for all the Committees you know right now we all have voting rights on these committees and in my opinion I think that's a little bit of overreach on council members and I think it'd be because I'd like to see more citizens involved with all of our committees that' be my goal or hope but I think if if we could have when on people on committees but don't have voting rights or you don't have don't vote that kind of helps eliminate some of the overreach that maybe some of our residents feel that our committees are are bringing to the table you know in the area of p and Z you have two members we do have two members we have two c and so they vote on an item that's coming to the council and they've already voted for it in the pnz and it comes to the council you know the overreach comes from those two people voting already and it just takes one more person for a majority for a passing so I think that's my whole rash now I think there's two things one is removing the Voting Rights but I think ultimately it'd be good to have these committees made up of all citizens and no council members so when everything comes to us from the residents those are the residents that are talking about what how they want to see the Comm how this to see how the city is involved and it's more citizens involved with the Committees but that's for another discussion another time I think that's another so when did this L on thing start it didn't exist because I don't I don't vote on the fire department no I know I on the Water and Sewer I vote on the parks and trails we have in the past yeah but I'm just so I mean it's not all of them that are that are that way no I'm just saying just take all the voting like real Clarity of what we're there for because it would help me coming in like what am I what am I doing when I sit at that table or maybe not have the table I in the audience take that moving towards that Vision if those that AI tool pans out that'll be that would be a huge thing because no no council member sitting on a you can still set Give me a summary of what was said about this topic and it spits it out to us individual ually you know so like that could be a tool to move towards that goal as well it's still being informed of what happened at the meeting without having to watch the entire YouTube video at a later date um you're right it's a vision yeah I think too much for tonight we're we're looking at 5 after 11 we can make more minutes we're going to be longer than the budget meeting on this I have one more amendment that that in there I'm going to change it says interim City administrator under here whereas under there I'm going to change that that was not caught either in the copy from last year after the appointments it says resolve it says as be resolved the interim City administrat yeah you're gonna stick around for a while yeah that was from I took last year's resol that'll just say City administrator well just for clarity in the past streets and roads have been made of Kane the mayor Jason and one council member and that's something you're interest I thought that Joe went on those I don't need to I was just volunteering for stuff I don't have to I was just volunteering for we've had one meeting in the year I've been here so it's not very well there's not drive still there more you need to have a coffee sometime right come on out still there let's move okay unless unless other comments let's goad and well we had to sign it before we can make the Motions we need the motion for the what was documented make a motion for what's documented for the committee appointment okay see no other discussion have a roll call vote who second that all right roll call vote mayor I course hi councelor Pendergrass hi councelor rice dord hi councelor Phillips hi councelor stream hi next item is resolution 20 254 which is our Fe schedule uh I would we have to have a motion to discuss this yeah let's do that that's the way it's supposed to be you make a motion PA I'll make a motion to step the fee schedule and I'll second that so we can talk about it no I got to kind of go through and explain what I did sure hopefully that maybe that'll answer some questions maybe maybe that'll answer your questions so I went through and I I looked at probably a dozen or more different fee schedules from different cities and kind of compared how we did ours to how they did theirs um and looked through what kind of fees they were charging for and not charging for and what their Associated fees were for said things and kind of compared ours to theirs um ours were vastly under what most of them were so there were some slight increases in some of the uh the fees uh and I I broke it down by categories well um I I really like the way that some of these other cities have done it instead of how we have it on our sheet I think it's very convoluted and even though it's only two pages it's also kind of over all over the place and trying to understand is a little bit difficult so I broke it down by different what we call departments if you will um so you have the administrative Department anything that would be City business uh the building department public works department Community Development and zoning and then like public utilities is the final one here um with that there's things in here that we were lacking uh administrative fees for things when we start doing tasks you know we can assign administrative fees uh we have that right to do that a lot of them were $25 across the board for a lot of cities I put that in as a recommendation it's in all the different departments doesn't have to be this is all recommendations from what I was seeing um ad the assessment search $25 that's still what we do now um any certified letters that we have to send is the amount that we pay for US Postal customer service we don't have that in our fee system right now so having that in there if we got to send certified letters we can build them for the set certified letters as well um so again this is stuff that so that we we have it in our system um investigative and research fees that's where you can start to look at okay I've got to spend time with um doing information disclosure requests or other things like that will we $50 fee um some of them did it by an hourly basis they were looking at we're going to charge you the employee rates and all these other things um so there's there's some of that um mileage was updated the check fee was left the same um there's some other excavation permits I don't know why those on would be in the administ those might be need to be another one um our data request is actual cost in here uh somebody wants to call a special meeting that says hey we want you guys to do a special meeting for this we can charge for having a special meeting they're they're requiring you taking your time now to create a a a special meeting using up your time it's not a pre-planned you know monthly meeting um this is something where they're saying you know what we want to we want to have a special meeting because we want this done now and we've missed all the other deadlines for this month's packet but we want it done before then okay it's going to cost you 3 $ to have a special meeting to have all of us come together to You Know cover the cost of you guys coming in for meetings because the council number is your you want a request no not the council so so it's it's it's like they want to have a special meeting to move things along with this well we could say okay not that we have to have to do it but we could say well that's a $300 fee because it's $75 for every one of you to come in here so that's you know $150 for you know two of you or $300 for four of you we're losing money still on the the amount of time we're paying you to come in it helps us re rein get our cost something new so we really need to well make sure we don't have anything to really compare it to for last year's stuff that we raising the fees so and I was looking at the next page we don't have animal license we got really L here yeah animal license duplicate we don't have that okay that's fine if we got rid of I don't know I wasn't here for these things we don't have where's the the the chicken license we don't have chicken license we're able to have more than five hens okay that was that was done away with camping we don't do camping anymore no you can have chickens now you can have chickens but there's no chicken li no it's a pet fee right no there's no pet fee or or license fee for chicken and then camping we don't do camping anymore we took that out well there's talk of wanting to do that so I think having those kind of things in there is important to have where we can could be able to you know help bring in more money to the city yeah but the problem is is is that was on your honor type situation for the camping thing and especially with what's going on looking and making sure that drugs and different things don't get going on I'd like to keep camping out I think that came about because I I wanted to discuss income opportunities for the City camping was one of them I got a backstory on that um passport um Services was another one because I just walked down to or not walked drove down to Olstead and wrote them multiple $100 check to do a passport you can us get that at at mailboxes and whatever else they'll do passports for so we haven't had camping for two years three years yeah and we don't want to do camping we've had problems with vandalism and you don't want to Camping the you don't want it we mov the wood ched up here because of squatters I mean you don't you don't want camping you really don't that was the back story that I got detailed um but it was just a discussion that I had had about um possible income opportunities for the once we got that's fine if you guys don't want to cross it off take the the motion will still be in here to take it as amended that's fine but I put these things in there because I thought either one they've been on there previously we could do them again or I think they're good ideas but those are my ideas again if not that's fine you guys can discuss it as Council go time to review them against what we were charging what was yeah I'd like to look at at what we did before I think that that that that's a good thing to have we a comparison can we put that on for a month and then have the comparison on well I'd really like to pass the sewer and water rate increase well well we can do that separately I think can't we because that was I broke it into sections you a certain section yeah so the one un table is going to be the I want I want to look at page page 2115 and 216 could you give those two comparisons well if we were to approve page 219 the public utilities oh yeah okay yeah I don't know anything off of page 26 really changed cuz that's CMS stuff and they didn't change their fees for the year um so I don't know that anything really changed off that can we can we do I think let's just do the 219 and bring the rest in for comparison how much we actually brought in her I'm sure we could but that's going to take me a little while to get all that information with the other okay let I'm just wondering if we have a license that no one ever uses yeah a pet license yeah but anyway uh yeah can we just do 219 and get improve that one I think the last time we seen pet licenses in there the city got 20 brought in $25 because this turn around they were five bucks a piece okay fine we just do 219 proove that before before well that's a thought let's before we do that decide that I think it's um we need to try and eliminate and minimize the confusion on our website because we approve this you know then we have our 2024 fees which is on the sheet right now and it's it's a two-page document right now I think it's two pages yeah two pages for yeah that's how we had how it is right now so we have two pages and so if we don't I guess I'm saying is we got it for a month we could have a unique I you know I prefer keeping it all together I guess rather than pulling out a page but I do think it Wars to get it done as soon as possible and so um if we were to we were set up a special meeting the first week in February what can we do it if we have a special meeting for the other one special meeting is we can put anything on it but once it's but once it's been set gold R crossings they if if they come through and request that that way we don't have to think they're going to come through I mean they're they're they're going to come through but all we can really do is do we does a city council prove just have to approve the annexation or does that have to go to no we got to do that the next step is city does that yeah before we get a public hearing oh yeah yeah city council holds it doesn't go to pnz it just comes through the city sta yeah because everything is already set for zoning Let's do let's hold off hold off on thatal special meeting can we make sure that someone from the township is here too so that're we're all having the same dialogue or does that not work you have like Town ship people well I mean they're welcome to be not to be a part of it they can can can do don't have a vote but zo if they want they try to set it up as a joint meeting with them if they want to they can it just sounds like there's conversations they're having with Township conversations they're trying to have with us like I just wonder if it's best to have everybody in the room I will say I spoke I don't know some of the township people and they had no idea they apparently had only met with one individual from the town Township so this is not something that's been brought before the township so you know they had no idea what was going on when I spoke to them about this deal with water and sewer water and SE we discussed that and we were going to take the 10% so we already have that with the council it's been discussed but it's got to be voted on so I mean we should be able to do that because I think it's just my concern is what it's going to take to put it on the website no yeah I'm just trying to make sure we're we're covered if we got into that so we could do the 10% increase it was a recommendation okay not approval just recommendation okay okay let's do it as a special meeting and do it that way get the comparison if nothing happens in the next week we can do a five is 5:30 works for everybody 5:30 on a Wednesday 30 minute meeting Wednesdays are out we're not allowed to do Wednesday stuff yeah Friday or Friday 5:30 Friday I I can do I can do 5:30 I can't do 6:30 5:30 is get stretchy for me but as long as we don't push it in the March I should be able to make it what day are you thinking let's look at February 3rd or 4th the third is a Monday the fourth is um I'm out on work travel the fourth so I'd have to do it third I'm up the rest of the week but I could zoom in sixth is you can't you gota be here to vote can't do it by Third is fine for me sorry is fine for me as well the third is the only day that works because I leave for Florida on the fourth the third or the sixth either either one for me is we're not going to read meters till end of February so have to force this I'm sorry say that again not read meters till the end of February so we are read meters at the end of January right but if you call a special council meeting February third yeah with the so they're going to have another read of bills before at the lower rate there's no sense trying to push this forward just to get you got time is what I'm saying you don't do it the next five days met reader we'll bring this back at the February 18th meeting okay let's do it that way comp February no special meeting just we'll do the special February yeah they do I need to know if it's going to be for a special meeting or that because I need to know how to prioritize my time of when I need to have this done it's on three days notice make I amend my motion to to to uh table this till the February 18th regular Council so then that way it's set you don't have to worry about it got a month to go get 500 gon jugs fill up with water well it's still cheap yeah I got a bigger your pool also going to point out to you I'm looking at the fee schedule now there is a full fee out there there's a chicken license fee on here I know there's also camping is still listed on here just as TVD so we'll go through this okay very good I make a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to approve consent agenda did did any comments I have something let's see what did I have no you got all the other stuff okay all in favor sign s all on that that's our longest one so far justed a lot no I think you got some [Music] tough you to stop at please