##VIDEO ID:X3Uv1Q7COuc## hey this is our um special city council meeting budget Workshop Wednesday September the 4th 1:24 5m call here coun BS here coun Richards here councilman pigra here here two days get all right uh we'll hop into the old business here real quick um in your packets the next couple Pages we talked about yesterday there were some questions about some of the stuff in there the first one was for the legal services Olstead County that's this top one it's a copy of the invoice that that was for special assessment records there were 692 records of 750 a piece and two of them at 30 which gave us that $5,000 that was in that one so um and then I know there was Planning and Zoning um you had asked about that with the pay for that kind of looking at that this is what they had done last year um this was paid out January said December December sorry December of 2023 they got paid out and there was only two of them that took payment um this was their their payments the other ones denied payment for it so and you kind of asked where they were at with that so I don't know you know as we go into December we can I guess evaluate if you want I always assume that everybody will take it if it's offered so that's why we've left it at what it is beyond that I guess kind of up to everybody else so any questions on Old business for doing the followup on that all right so we're going to move into today's Workshop again um first off before we do the first page on top after this is our um salaries for the year for all employees I know it's a little small it's fitting all in there uh gives a breakdown how many hours per week times the week times the hours um the proposed salary in here is a 5% increase you'll see that in the city budgets as we go through that's uh two and a half% from the city two and a half Cola cost of living um there that was just what was recommended by Mike gobani just to put in there as a placeholder that can be adjusted as needed uh so you'll see the 2025 proposed that's the hourly rate if you will um and then they proposed what the salary would be and that's the next one is general fund um line 15 is an on call provision uh we've been working with public works here talking about on call and how they're going to be paid out for on Call um and trying to to figure that out uh so working with Kane and those guys I think it was we were looking at about $200 a week times the 52 weeks and that gets you the on call pay of 10,400 that's for them to hold the phone um and and basically be here at a moments notice more or less within a reasonable time frame um you know with that that's part of operating a 247 sewer water treatment facility we got to have someone there to be able to answer calls when needed um I think that's kind of fair because it does prevent them from leaving during those times you know it's one of those things we they they're forced to stay close by and you know be able to respond so I see we don't I see we don't have any the seasonal workers out here so those are go over this first okay before we get into seasonal you want to go over those numbers again for the on call yeah so Kane had done it up it's $200 a week for whoever's on call so the 52 weeks right that's what the and that's what that's how you get to the $10,400 um seasonal we'll get into that more with when Kane stuff but Kane's decided that he would like to propose a new full-time employee um to replace the seasonal employees he feels that that would be adequate coverage but we'll get to that when we get into the public works at the the later date so um and then you'll see on here we have a section for 100 hours of overtime this is something that I haven't seen budgeted for um and the city's ultimately paying out one way or the other um whether it be through comp time at the end of the year or you know um as we go I know the city staff St has expressed to me on multiple occasions they would like to be paid out for overtime versus Tom time that that also went I think for this year two at the end right Renee on what we had set up he's talking paying on our weekly or our bu on on the with the paycheck so they get their overtime for the 80 hours whatever they get paid out right away or they have the option they could still would have the option to do comp time but they're so we're budgeting for 10000 hours because either way they've been acre over time it's got to be paid whether it's paid as comp time or or the overtime um it's something that needs to be put in the budget I haven't seen that put into the budget in Prior years I think if we do it in comp time I'd like to see it done in in a matter where it's paid out at that rate even if you draw the hours over to the next year okay because if you Ed at this wage you shouldn't be able to collect it in another wage well comp times run a little bit different but we'll get into that when we we get into that later down the road so again just a placeholder here and then you'll see in here water sewer again Mike put in here um mikeon helped lay this whole thing out um the 75,000 in for um water and then 75,000 Pur SE those are the 7 and a half% that help offset the cost of salaries for employees and I'm I'm one thing that comes to mind here too is I know we had talked even before you came about um putting cane on salary and adjusting salary and I think our are we adjusting this or adding some pad into this to adjust salaries based on Market um based on Market no we just went with across the board because we haven't done a market study for the city so I don't know where we're at for that so this was just a a 5% across the board for everybody increase on on their current 2024 rate so as we get into those sections you know that's something that we could speak for each one yeah as we go through um I'd like to make sure we do have something because if we do market and we find that summer low that we have the ability to to move within that that's my thought so we'll keep that in mind as we go through with the salaries fre each that's good good point there so and then kind of on the bottom I just did a a quick you'll see straight underneath general fund in 100 hours that's straight public work staff that's what their section is because I was doing mental math in my head on there so if you have question about that so um so we'll move on here I have three sections for you as we go through this so same as yesterday this is the uh proposed 2024 or 2025 the prelim that we had put together this next color this next one here this is a breakdown of kind of the expenses for my areas admin um mayor all that stuff and we'll go through each one it'll make sense as we go through yeah's black and white um and then the last one is again the same one the revenue expenditure reports from yesterday so the new the new one's the middle one here that gives a bit of a breakdown just to kind of help explain how got to some of those numbers on this um you'll see at the top it says asking that was going to be my initial asking price even since then on some of these I have reduced it in the preliminary budget already to help bring down some of the numbers so these numbers will be slightly different different than these they'll probably be these will be higher than what's actually in the prelim because I've reduced some of them already so any questions on that you're saying these these will likely be higher yes these will likely be higher than the preliminary ones so we will start off the first section here with the uh mayor council section or we starting off on this yeah so these ones are going to be first page right same thing you kind of flip as you go fall on here um so salaries again that's per city code I left that at the 18,5 that gets paid out the end of the yeah the end of the year for you folks um so that's in there same with the payroll taxes um that that is just based off of the salary so that would be what would be taken out so nothing changes there um council meeting food don't uh we haven't used use anything year to day there was nothing you use last year I don't know if that's something you guys ever do I I left it at 300 I dropped it down from 330 last year to 300 um and this one I don't know I I mean that's up to you guys I mean we could be I mean just if we did water or whatever else that way you know or yeah sometimes we have like the community meetings I don't know if if that comes out of this if there's something guys we're find that um so coming through the next one here you'll see in this the the lodging meals and travel I've kind of all adjusted their name you'll see on the far left side from all like conference stuff to just um to make it simple lodging meals and travel uh looking at this you'll see this gives again the breakdown here on this sheet a little bit better so lodging what I did the LMC conference this year is in duth on these dates um the average hotel nights day is $150 per night so that's about 450 per person um and what I did initially was I said I would like to see everybody go so that's why I put enough for five people in there I did reduce it down to to 2,000 cut a little bit off there because I know probably everyone won't be able to make it or whatever the case maybe but I I would like to see that increase from the previous year because I think it's important for you folks to be able to attend these events if you choose to so is there any problem with the 2,000 we think that's okay okay same thing with meals you'll see in here with the meals section um I based everything off of the uh Minnesota state rate of $64 a day I went onto their stuff and kind of saw how they did the breakdown three days again that's $190 a person I know the city has it set up right now with just purchase what you will and reimburse um I like the state rate stuff because it sets it we know no matter what it's going to be the same and that always gives people um whatever but that's how I came to these numbers was just using the state rate because I think it's a good average so you look at the LMC again the same thing $190 per person initially it got me to um $950 and then I also had five days for whatever else there may be I know there's some other travel stuff that you you folks go to um that would afford as well some some food when it's not offered although typically it is offered so um I initially had 12270 I did reduce that down to a th so I think that's at least if everybody goes to LMC at least covers the LMC mail stuff so thoughts sound good okay State rate travel again um I I changed it from mileage to travel because travel is more encompassing um across the board and it's going to be that way these are all going to be changed in in each category because like for me travel well I've got a an annual conference in you know St Louis or St you know somewhere in Pittsburgh well that's not mileage you know it's it's travel so there's airfare there there's car rentals there stuff like that that covers it anyway State rate 67 cents a mile again I did the round trip mileage to Du three oil it's 432 miles round trip so that's 290 per person at the state rate uh roughly $1,500 and then I put in there an extra 500 for whatever travel other travel may you know other events and stuff um so that was 2,000 I did reduce it to a th000 again I was looking for places to cut back um so if you feel that a th's okay I can leave it otherwise we can increase it um that's kind of up to you guys's do your thoughts on that well you got uh what is it day at the capital too that's that's kind of a fun one to do um you know I know I had gone to that once I think you did that last year too didn't you Ryland yeah I've been to several you know so I mean that that's one that that could fit in there I'm just yeah I mean we can leave it that way I was almost thinking that maybe you look at the 24 and 23 mileage it's 59 378 so I think thousands okay that's kind of I was looking at that too when it was lower I don't know if people just weren't submitting it or just eating the cost or whatever um we obviously want you to be reimbursed for your travel fees so you know it's one of those it's really up to you guys I again I thought a th000 was a good increase from previous years um and would help cover but 2000 was my ultimate 15 00 whatl the difference pardon do you want to do 1500 you want leave 1,000 or 1500 because you have 2,000 to start uh and that way I mean we don't have for the other but again I don't know if everybody's going to go up to to Deluth I'm just trying to think of what what's available that way so I think we might be all right given the fact that you know bank that not everyone's going to be able to go and have that flesh fund that's in there okay yeah I'm good believe that thousand so moving on to fees and memberships that's just change from conference fees um again LMC conference if we get the early registration that's 275 a person again for everybody that was 1375 and then 500 for other um training they do offer a lot of online training some of them do cost it um also printer maintenance um we haven't gotten it hooked up we do have a printer to put in here for you guys so I know that was asked for we got the printer it's sitting in our boiler right now and I'm trying probably going to end up putting it over in that area um so just stuff like that uh it was covered under the the fees and membership stuff um again I had 18 and some change I did just kind of leave that at 1,00 because if we miss somebody misses the early registration it does go up a couple hundred bucks so it's one of those that's kind of a coverage for us as well um so if everybody's okay with 1800 do that we don't going toak yep um and then the last one here others this was previously dues and memberships they changed it to other this is where we're looking at um I've going to a lot of these events and networking and meeting a lot of council members I see a lot of uniformity they have clothing they got Polo stuff like that I think that'd be cool for you guys to have that budget $100 per person to get a couple polos uh and whatever else we may may choose um so that was 500 to that and then I would also like to start as we advance our programs and your guys's access to the programs a lot of that needs technology so I've talked with a lot of City administrators and what they do is they offer $1,000 to their members for their term their foure term and every four years if you need a new one it is available after four years but you get a $1,000 or four years to get a computer tablet of your choice there's some where they've just purchased them for them and not everybody likes them or doesn't know how to use them and so they end up not using them this allotment makes it so you can purchase something that works for you and so as we move forward with our our Technologies and stuff you can use this at Council meetings and you can have your packets up you can play around on them you and you can utilize those so that's why I put that in the budget that's better than what we're dealing right now with the Chromebooks that that yeah I hate years Sol hey whatever you want so like I said with that thousand it does allow you to to purchase what's best for you you know it's it's something that I we're in need iook and hopefully as we get more Technologies like I said and different stuff it will allow you to be able to pull up and access and doing and you know just just do a lot more and I know with with some of these programs we're looking at and and getting it'll be beneficial so anything with that one okay all right we'll move on to my section yay all right so first one here you're going to see a huge increase in the uh budget for our wages because again like we talked about yesterday all of our wages for employees are being put in under their category um so again 5% increase across the board for all employees and there was an offset um will'll be part of that as well from sewer and water the uh benefits health benefits perah and payroll that's all the percentage that comes out automatically so those are just based off of the top salary wage their number any questions about those sections so how does the offset from water sewer Park what's that what is offset from the water in super so the water sewer pays for a portion of the employees salaries that was the intention with it going in 7 and a half from water s and a half from sewer this one yep and so with that it's it's not something you'll necessarily see directly in here but what'll happen is it's a transfer in transfer out type of thing um the way Mike was explained to me was basically we'll transfer the money from there from those funds into 15% of what my salary be into my salary thing it's it's yeah so that's kind of how that works City's charging yeah so okay any other questions with that all right so we'll move into my lodging meals travel membership stuff um lodgy and I broke it down by the different mcma that's the Minnesota city managers association their annual conference event which is in brainer uh the icma has an annual conference next year is in Tampa I opted not to go to the Pittsburgh one this year because it's happening next week so and I knew we had budget stuff to be dealing with and and getting done um so that kind of gives a breakdown average per night for hotel for the lodging um and then with Deluth same thing same is your folks as to what that is the iimc which is the oh my gosh The International Institute of Municipal clerks thank you um um that's the other one they've got an event in St Louis that is one that I'm part of just because I am the the city clerk I don't necessarily know that I intend on going I did put a spot in there for it I did leave it blank it's not part of what I budgeted um and I just actually found out yesterday that it they finally released where it was at so I've been to St Louis I don't know um make Of A Thrill all right so me downtown the arch is cool um but yeah that's so that's kind of that again you'll look at in here um lodging I was going to ask 25 I brought it because I didn't know what the LM that one was going to be I put in near 22 I could probably reduce it down to 2,000 um you know I again just putting numbers in there as placeholders was going a little bit higher just because I'm not sure what hotel costs are going to be based off of availability and if we have to cut in December this okay okay same thing with the meals again looking at the conference uh I they don't have an out ofate rate um I know my previous employer they had instate and out ofate rate so I just based everything off of an instate rate um again same thing six punches punches right to travel out the state right so I uh put all those in there and then again three days for just I don't know there's something else that pops up that's how I get to that 890 on there I did Round Up to 900 to make it an even number um down from the Thousand that I was originally going to ask so and with that I just as a a point of information I think it'd be good for us to even look at as a city look at a perdum so then you don't have to worry where it's at just set up Pine well that's that's typically what that's what theate is P yeah that is their p and I'm I'm all for that I think PM is the way to go because it lays out like if you leave before this time you don't get breakfast if you leave after this time you get breakfast lunch and dinner like it lays out all the grounds which is pretty cool can will you turn off the fans that's good actually on the bottom part of I see we have City staff clothing I thought we had that budget for this last year and we didn't do anything with it it was in there I don't think for us yeah we we get that I'm going to finish with this travel is the same thing you can see I broke down the travel um Florida's the expense or yeah Florida is the expensive one um and Tampa there with the LM icma um again that's one of those ones where just kind of estimating prices I did look at some car rentals and what would be cheap or not um I will say with the icma stuff there is the opportunity to get some scholarship money for the for first time person as well that scholarship is to help cover the annual the the fee for it um so there could be some reduction in that section of it um but I don't know that I I'd have to look at that process and how that that goes but um again that's the travel rate that's how I got to the number um I did reduce it to 2500 because again I don't know that necessarily going to Missouri or you know some of these I may miss a meeting May Miss some of that it's just I I put in for the max of what it is and that's where we're at with the number so 2500 everybody kind of comfortable with that now so you're travel to uh you're flying out of Minneapolis parking lot be two four days so part your travel well actually I wouldn't because I would park at my brother-in-law's place and i' get an Uber over so I wouldn't have be parking ride out of Rochester too and fly up and not have to put your car there we just paid $210 yeah do that that's why I stay with family plus it's it's in a secure place with cameras I I trust a little bit more no no offense to MSP but I parked in for the week it was it was good yeah it just ultimately just saves on having that that longterm fee so um again same thing with the memberships these are all the different memberships mcma icma the LMC which is our annual one the a which is the American oh my gosh that's a newer one that just started a founding member for that this year um it is a city manager one um are you and you have any memberships lene um yes what am I in MC foa and LMC I think are the two that'll be on the next so um so yeah the uh and I'm not even part of the mcfo one I should probably be in that one over the IMC but I got signed up for the IMC first the mfoa the Minneapolis version of the international um clerks mpal Clerk's one right I can't there's so many acronyms I know I again the fees of memberships 3500 um like I said some of these might miss some of the SE MLM events things like that there's some other things I did put in there other options so like I said I reduced it down to 3500 to cut off a little bit on the initial 4,00 I looked at asking for any questions there okay um and then other I did put in a th for uh City staff clothing this one is only in line um because it would be just fall under me I would be the one purchasing for all the city staff and again it's the same kind of thing the poos just some uniformity stuff I think so when we go to trainings if they go to their school stuff you know you know I think it's been good for can on what he's got going on I think looks very on but and I've got my own yeah he's got his own thing no but I'm just saying with what you're doing I think that's but it's one things and I'm sure you've seen at the events and new as well you know you go to these events these these cities they've all got their polos with their stuff on it it looks sharp so I think that's something that we should budget for and you know proceed with what that maybe we need to save this forever save that purchase of that stuff for after branding well even something simple as city of oronoko like just something to get us going is I you know there's you know I think is is important to have city of Aro and the bridge is still the B you know so right now I think and then I had put some it stuff in there in case I had some it specific things for my department or for me um I I don't know I kind of knocked it out I just left it at a th000 for the clothing mostly um so yeah any questions on this and move on to the next one here Deputy clerk one again salaries wages you're going to see an increase uh over last year just based off of the fact we're lumping it all back into where they belong now Rene is also you'll see on this breakdown chart here it does include um the overtime hours it gives a breakdown salary wages plus the 100 hours average which is about 2 hours per week uh overtime for the year um and that's where we're looking at for a total I did round out to 71 to make the even number there um and then the uh employee health and Par and payroll is all based off of that salaries and wages I mean looking at this though with the 2324 um on the budget yeah um I know that her salary was over 13,000 for 20 last year so is that because the different areas that they were you just didn't pull everything together it was just spread hers is just all the all the the and I don't know if it was I don't think it was for was it for you guys too yeah every city employee it was a percentage all over the place and I just it doesn't I don't think it it does well for transpar yeah you can't keep track exactly so this is a better way where like you know my pay comes out of my buet you know Rene's pay comes out of Rene's bucket like we get a true sense of where we're at for each person and how we're doing for the year in Rene's hour is rough a lot last year because people in the office and not people people out here so not over time um again sorry out there Paul I said appreciate all you did um so that looks good then we'll go again lodging meals and travel all based us similars what we did uh did put in the LMC event here would like her to go to that this year if possible um and then her mfoa one um don't know where that one's at you went to that you went to that one last year no last year I did not which one did you go to last year I went to the in clerks Institute clerks Institute okay um which is probably another one that could be added in here but yeah because I'll have to do your two um so yeah so looking at that she's got the clerk Institute as well which I forgot to put in here um as another event but the mfo annual event maybe I don't know if you have interest in going to that annual event or going to that just a quick comment um yes you look at the employee health and benefits on this sheet here at 14 no 15138 but your budget had 142 so this one the preliminary is going to be the most accurate if the numbers there's I do know on my chart there's a couple ones that I found were off that I probably mispe something or did a formula wrong so this preliminary one is the one for a lot of it they should match but if there's discrepancies this preliminary one is the one that's accurate one you're asking yeah this was just kind of my write up of asking giving the explanation of more depth from here just so we know so again all the rates are laid out um I did 800 for lodging reduced it a little bit uh 600 for meals again reduced a little bit and then a th I kept a th000 for travel so I do a lot of travel as well um her mileage reimbursement also is you know she does runs the post office and bank runs and things like that so uh she does have some other mile mileage reimbursement um that would be there I must have that in here okay yeah there we go sorry um these are a little bit out of order on this one but yeah so travels 600 and the fees and and that is a th000 there we go so yeah I reduced the travel one down um depending on events I don't know that may need to go but she's going to more events um the fees so I'm assuming here you have the fees are 1410 and ium just because had more stated numbers so yeah so the the fees the fees is 141 so as you can see the breakdown here um the you know there was again the 500 for the any other training she might do and I stuff but then the mcfo one the annual membership is $50 and then the conference free you see here is $560 um and then the $300 I rounded up from the annual event membership for the LMC as well so bet you have a thousand yeah yeah I I reded I reduced it okay because again I was going through I I'd initially sent off these numbers to Mike and Mike like hey you need to cut back so I was okay going through cutting back things and I'm like you know we could probably do with a little bit more but I I feel comfortable with these numbers as well because as I look back even in previous years you know there's there's some things where I mean they're they're within the ballpark and I think we'll be okay with so that's kind of why I left them there um yeah I'd be okay if we raised them but you know again that's that's where I think it's it's comfortable with okay there are no questions we'll move on to the administrative assistant this one should go fairly quick again salary um no benefits for part-time and then we've got perah and payroll in here and then travel expenses she does do some Bank runs as well as post office runs stuff like that and I'm I'm wondering if we don't want to consider that position to do some some of the LMC things because we we really want to grow that person right you know something you know uh entry level like an LMC training or um and maybe there's training on on software or other things I think I would like to see some so more training there want to see travel so if we if we move travel and just kind of make it other that encompasses travel as well as training stuff but would $200 be enough no we would I'm just I'm just talking about renaming it that would we Encompass all of it yeah maybe it can be a you know tra trackable hash draining um and then bump that up because I think we have to grow that person as well right so other travel are changing travel just I'm I'm putting other and then it'll in my notes it'll be I'll you know have stuff in here for travel a line for travel and line for training um like a reimbursement stuff but so travel you're going to add other yeah a separate line for training no other training will go under other for this one yeah so travel and training will so and then what do we want to bump that I mean thoughts on increasing I would say 500 provides 300 for some online training courses um say it like eight yeah I would say up to 800 yeah all right anything else this one what's that total uh you're going to add $600 to that so you're going to be just over 4,9 again this one's wrong had the health benefits in there this sheet did so this one's higher than this number like I said there were a few things that didn't compute over the right okay all right and now we come into our final two here the Bigg on I'm going take a drink of water you City Wire uh it's buil to bottle provided by the city so good we're okay right okay all right um so again this one you'll see salary wages um employee Pera and payroll this is based off of the uh current position the full-time position yet to be filled that one was left under the financial Administration section just to have the spot for all that information so that's in there um travel again you'll see change from mile to expense I just put in a th000 unknown what that position will do for travel I'm assuming there'll be some some travel involved there um that can kind of help cover some of the other Associated costs that may pop up as well with that um Financial Administration I view this as overseeing a lot of the finances that covers a lot of the Citywide finances so you're going to see categories in here that cover city-wide finances so instead of having them spread out amongst each department they're going to be all here under City Finance because we deal with the finances in house here we deal with the insurance we deal with cell phone reimbursements everything's coming out of this office so we're lumping it under the financial administration of this department honestly I'd like to see if there's anything that we're that we're Contracting out from a financial perspective you know for finances is there anything that we can grow into this position that's going to affect this right now yeah so you'll see cell phone reimbursement um this one's listed 4,000 you look at all employees right now the it's $55 a month for six employees times 12 months gets you $3,900 and something dollars so just under 4,000 so round it up to 4,000 that again that's part of the all city employees um office supplies I left left at 8,000 um I saw in 2023 we had 9,000 this year we're sitting at about a little over 4,000 um I do feel that that's a a good number to have as we we kind of e and flow office supplies costs go up and and down and all around and depending on what may need coverage um that would be a good thing to help cover any office supplies we may need um postage delivery was 1,700 um that was a recommendation from Mike bubani because there was you know potential for having to mail out more stuff as we grow with developments and things like that so that's why we're seeing the increase right now we're already at about $1,200 and I know we're also putting out the newsletter a little more frequently and doing some other stuff so you know I I feel that that's a good number if it was to go down I wouldn't want it to drop below, 1500 is my my thoughts is that on it yes so most of the Citywide mailings are on that anyway aren they I believe so if we no not the because the other ones we got individual stamps on all the utility bills and and everything like that so um memberships and fees again depend on new position coming in um and put your LMC and then there I'm sure there would be some more p on a finance person or whatever other position again covering any memberships fees for conferences things like that it's it's kind of all encompassing for that I felt that high maybe question higher than mine higher than mine what mine was um no I don't think so I know I was asking you know mine's at 35 your so I mean realistically I mean probably drop it to 2,000 to say 500 I we can worry about that in December I think it's better leave at 25 all market for reevaluation in December that way we know um if we need to drop a little bit um okay contract labor this is this the onsite because we're 27,000 some of it I believe is Shirley's yeah that's what it was sorry Shirley that was the part time temporary that was in she had a majority of that the rest of it was around I think hers was like 25 or 26,000 of that actually and you can see if you just click through here see the we at 27,000 page five of the finance one so towards the back each section has its own page number so it's going to be where's the back half of this contract labor um yeah outside of that I think there was maybe like 500 $600 that were was not it was for uh Tyler Tech stuff merging business Tech so yeah that was most most of her so that's the reduction down into that 2023 was like a little over 3,000 then it was dropped to 1,000 I was okay with [Music] 00 thoughts concerns good to move on yeah okay subcontracted Services 125 you'll see in here um on-site was a lot of that there was also uh 12,000 to that was for uh my the hiring with my position so Mike from Co South Central um I left that because initially I wasn't sure what it was um you know I'm not sure what other subcontracted services we would use so that would be somewhere where I think we could cut back on significantly if we need to yeah um you know and I'd be com comfortable cutting it back to like 6,000 right now just to be on the safe side because I'm looking at previous years where it was around 6,000 was actual I'd like to leave that where we're at too because again it's better to be on the plus side in September look at that and then come back down yeah if we have to make it that sounds so we'll that one for now we'll reevaluate in December um workers comp insurance so this one is going to be one where you're going to see an increase if you actually flip to behind this you'll see the insurance payouts that we have from North Start um I'm GNA explain this a little bit here so I went through had to do the insurance in May that was like right when I was getting started kind of got put into my lap oh hey by the way we got to renew this what number are we on if you're if you're in this preliminary you flip the preliminary page to the next behind the uh Financial one you're going to see some attachments um this is the summary of our insurance here um so you'll see with our property insurance we and we'll go property insurance is down we'll kind of talk about both these there was a dramatic increase properties we added a $48 million wastewater treatment facility plus pumps and all that grinder stations and stuff like that um so we added a lot of physical property so we saw an increaseing with mobile property I'm guessing that's like generator and and things um equipment as well went up uh so our Municipal liability automobile we added the fire truck as well as the crush truck so those went up [Music] um then you come into so that jumped us from 25 last year almost 26 to up to 58,000 this year and then workers compensation um this is the one that really had me I I met with the LMC um people as well as with uh our actual Northstar Risk insurance I met with the vice president of them as well to have them explain this to me because I saw this jump up I have no idea how um Sunny previously had these numbers down at the 16,000 versus the 23 um you know it's one of those where you and I attach the uh the different ones from both years and basically you'll see it's based off of um the renumeration and the rate so basically you're timesing this to get to these numbers it's uh estim the renumeration estimated payroll for each section and then um the rate is calculated into there and so like I said I want to make sure I was right because it jumped and I was worried about that and I met with these people and they assured me this is right um and they also said if we get audited we may have to owe something because I don't know how this was done they couldn't figure out how this was done and these numbers were so low last year compared to this because we only added one new employee and that was Caleb that would fall under the um the workers workman's comp stuff and you know right rightfully so the first respond like the fir is a little bit higher because they prone they can be prone to injury but public work section as well is is high just because they're prone to injuries that's why their workman's comp section is so high so it's a shock it was a shock to me um but I want you guys to understand what it is and I wanted to make sure we budgeted for it appropriately so that's why you're going to see in here workman's comp um is at 24,000 um I just rounded up from the 23629 and then the municipal liability insurance is 59,000 again rounded up from the 580 95 so this C that covers that covers fire department yeah that that covers everybody it it does it covers everybody and so if you flip kind of to the uh say the third one here you'll see this breakdown here the of each department um they runs from May to may go to one one each thing in here and it's yeah so firefighters but yeah is there any questions on those two I want to make that kind of explain that because that was one of those ones that good yeah like I said I I had to ask and I had to have meetings with people because insurance I'm not insurance agent not my world and I was worried I didn't fill out the paperwork right and I was assured NOP we filled out the paperwork right this is what it is and you know so that's where I think all of us are faced for that in our home owners too and everything else it's just it's got crazy this last year yeah so there are significant jumps in that and that's why um bond insurance not really sure what that is we have nothing to date nothing budgeted last year but the year before we budgeted with nothing I put 200 as a placeholder if anybody knows what the bond insurance stuff is but the only thing I can think of is you know you sometimes you have to be bonded with certain things and I don't know if there's a cost for for doing that in our positions 23 we had a expenditure 564 so well that was budgeted was budgeted Z zero yeah so I I left it at 200 I think it's okay leave it at 200 personally just in case something pops up um what would we bond for well it would be it would be an employee being bonded um covered typ type of thing well that would that have to do with notary stamp stuff like that no it's B like if the VFW we bonded it's like for $15,000 SP how much money you have your bank checking account oh so for like 15 bucks you can get bonded for 15,000 but when you're talking about $800,000 or million dollars it might be a lot more yeah number is but it's an insurance type thing it might be part of LC Stu too well I know in the in the thing it does talk about the bond employee dishonesty one which is about 393 this year um so I don't know if that is what that is supposed to be that's covering that um that was the only thing I could think of outside of that again I'm okay leaving it I'm okay taking it out thoughts Snee below 200 buckss down there that we can pull out later you want to go zero just assum you yeah I'm I'm not super worth CH to zero we need 200 bucks we can find 200 bucks no but I'm just saying this way will just be a placeholder for this one and then we need to if we need to reduce it afterwards we can pull it out there's not be a question you're probably reducing it anyway okay you know you originally had that in as 500 yeah you know so you went from 500 to 200 well like you was just looking up talking about what you saying it's about um the bond fails to meet the the price and it's for the obligate it'll it'll the bond insurance takes care of the the balance Falls that b the bonds fall so if we had bonds issued as a city basically then well like we bonded for we B we had to bond for the bridge yes yeah yeah cross brid yeah so if the bonds don't pil the plan is then so we'll leave it in for now okay um open medium law insurance there really hasn't been anything in the books um and nothing's been Ed so that was left blank same with property mobile insurance I don't even know what that is um there is a mobile property already included in our premium for this so I assume that was something with that so that was left blank umbrella Insurance again there's something that's been in there I don't know what the city considers umbrella insurance we used in 2023 liability probably of some sort yeah we had 1419 in 2023 is that part of LMC insurance we get charge a premium well gen generally umbrella insurance is because it goes over the top because something goes over the top of your normal policy yeah so wants damages or something under check with North risk and just see I'll do that check is included do what with it R check with North risk our insurance par okay I'll check with them on that one um volunteer Insurance again nothing and nothing so I left it blank um Bank fees this year we did get some reimbursement on Bank fee stuff I do know with our credit cards we have a $99 annual fee for that so I left it at a $100 Bank fee um any fees beyond that they get built out to the Departments usually so there's no um specific bank fees that I foresee coming up so um technology expenses this is where you'll see on the next page in here breakdown of this and where coming from this is kind of the big item um I initially wanted to ask for a lot more but you'll see a breakdown of our technology expenses this is an all-encompassing type of thing here so we've got bcom where we're looking at approximately 275 a month bcom is our bones and stuff like that that's just for them um onsite budget 8,400 approximately 700 a month that includes tech support and things for our computers um diligent which was was uh recently approved we've got that budget in in there this year for the the next year's price when it's due um Adobe I did purchase an adobe it's an annual price so we can work with PDFs um so we at least have one person in our office that can do stuff with PDFs and and do that um trate is our printers we do have stuff with that I did get a printer upstairs and and to for my office area I know I'd like to our contract we're on contracts with the printers uh least to own type of contract um that was signed before I was here so that one will eventually come up here in the next few years the one that's in our office um I'd like to move that one downstairs and plan on um getting a new contract signed for a new one here downstairs in our file room so we're not running back and forth if we got to make copies and stuff like that um since we will own it um the other thing with that is part of why was looking at technology for you guys and doing all these things is um right now I think we' spent $6,000 on copies through on site um a lot of that's based off just printing out stuff um so it's it's a lot of money we're spending on printing off stuff so you know I I left it with the 6,000 to help cover some printing costs and some maintenance costs and some other costs um in the hopes that we get this technology moving forward and we're printing out lesses as a city over all the object of email 35 years ago right so paper increases then you got Catalyst in here um that's our City website and then finance software I know that one got kind of put on hold we did I did keep that in the budget in there with the hopes that we can get something um through there so that's why that's in there that is the amount that would be for 2025 um not including the 2020 the let's not include the stuff we would do um this year and as you can see this year year to date we're sitting at 11,300 of the 40,000 budgeted so we do have room to help pay for some of those new technologies um another one that we'll be looking at presenting that Renee and I just met with um a couple different companies for a mobile app for Citizens Zoda uses one and it's through goov is the one that we kind of liked we'll be presenting that later um but things like that so we can allow the citizens more access and they can have it on their mobile phones and there's there's different Technologies we're looking at to help Advance us as a city to be more transparent and communicate with everybody in an efficient way because we're finding a lot of people don't like the Facebook so you know it's one of those things that if we can offer more options for the citizens for technology for them to be able to interact with us I think it's going to help make a lot of people happy um um I will say with the finance software we have had a lot of people come into our office and talk and request like hey how can we have help get this program um specifically the bsna stuff after it was presented and talked about there was people that were asking about because they were watching this um but overall as well we've had a lot of people come in and request you know hey we want to be able to do this stuff online we want to be able to pay this we want to be able to see back stuff online and they're the the company that will offer that to the citizens so I think it's it's a win-win if we can budget for it and and get it going um I did also include new softwares and it Hardware I think you know security would be included in that it hardware update some of our stuff I know there's been some computer updates in our office um but just overall just to make sure we're we're good like I said you'll see in here my initial request was going to be 110 I did drop that back down to 80 um just to to help reduce the budget so that's how we get to the 880,000 it is double from last year's but I think you know it it's encompassing a little bit more because I combined some things um previously you'll see it renamed there's computer and internet expenses and we had an internet one so I'm just trying to rename it technology expenses and make it more understandable can you update on the actually you're looking at new city software or New City website is that bud being done this year or is that next year so the the updated for the website yeah that's a free of charge thing okay so I was talking with them and they they do like a every I don't remember how many years two three three four years they do a refresh like hey you're a customer we'll refresh your stuff um didn't know that I don't know if anybody knew that so I worked with him and we've got a refresh coming hopefully end of September mid October is what we're looking at so yeah it's been redesigned redone and it's in the queue for their on their side to get it refreshed so thoughts comments okay um we'll move on internet internet expenses C I don't know bevcon but also I look at that if we need to um anything else that's it technologically related stuff again it was a box there was a filler I'm okay with nothing but you know we've again looking at where we're at this year that's already above what we put there because we're at 2600 26 so um I'd like to keep a thousand there it's one of those ones where if something happens or we need to update something an emergency that's maybe not beom got internet down at can you got it here you got it off plant yeah but if if we gotta buy some you know we got to buy a new router that's not B like if we've got to buy some of this stuff that's where would come under the internet expense yeah but now so this is isn't this our internet charges just for the service the 2600 26 yeah for actual year to date year 2650 you got 26 and you budgeted a thousand yeah so with with B you're talking um no this was just no this do to do with your yeah this is all the way so yeah bcom had Own Line yeah so we budgeted 727 in 2023 we're already actually over right 1,000 oh that 2020 that 2026 that's the catalst one that's why it's no but you got you got 2650 you have 2650 for today than this on yeah so that's Catalyst which I moved into the one up the technology expenses so I you technology yeah so it the Catalyst was under our website was under the internet charges which is the charge you see here that I'm moving up into technology expenses and we will have internet as more of a our bevcon bill actually covers the internet for all three facilities right yeah it should I believe our internet part is free we just pay for the phone part of it was there then underneath your telephone charges yeah because it's a network phone I know it's the way it's all done up is okay also know we're getting some new phones hopefully soon we order those week Goodtime so we've had some issues with our current phones dropping out mid call um so they do have some new updated phones that we are getting they've already been purchased in their on their way so excited for those um but I again that for the office what is that for the office set up yeah yeah so are you connected with that too K we're gon to get the old phones well and hopefully with some of this we can update with that so what they're doing is there they didn't have phones to begin with they had one Central phone if I remember right and so what we did was we've now moved our phone moving our phones down to their they've got the phones so each person at their desk now has a phone line correct will yes um and then so it'll be like a rotation of getting new technologies to come through and and get updated so but too to have everybody have their own line so okay um again telephone expense was the car's line sign that account number something different yeah some of these I wasn't sure um what the what these were CarX expense if we've got something different that we want to rename this one can I left it I don't have anything else to add really um the American Rescue plan you look over on 2024 there's $3,073 Y and we use that that has to be used up by December 31st of this year so is that still in the bank thinking about using it for some of the signs new community center signs if we can get reimbursed for that reimbursed so that we could zero that out it's part of public information aspect of the great rescue plant we start out with $76,000 well the other thought was for Public Works to use it for signage for them as well Kane so that would go to talked in the shot Tracy yeah for you know because we got to do we want to do the public Workshop as well as the wastewater treatment facility stuff so so if you want to we'll confirm that number pretty sure is that something that we would get again this no no it's a one time deal okay I'm just looking at this 2025 I zeroed that out because I didn't think that's okay zero is correct okay it's just that we need to pass resolution make sure and what can it be used for because I'm assuming certain things public information is one of like our message boards okay we use that not equipment we use it for the mics and stuff in here audio system used for a digital sign on the road yeah we're using 50,000 of that what for the two speed sign no he's talking about the big one here that's yeah it could also be used for the speed limit sign right you mean another radar sign be used for yes it could be like Ryland said it's for public information we'll continue on here Grant reimbursement I left that blank we haven't had anything the last few years I don't even know why reimbursement would be under the expenditures um so miscellaneous expenses that got rounded up you'll see um our miscellaneous expenses this year uh was from the interview process it looks like all the people that interviewed were reimbursed for their um stuff here so that's where those come from um and then whatever other miscellaneous so yeah and I that's really all that was under miscellaneous that's all we have for now and I think the big part with the miscellaneous is if there's something that falls under this where we start to run over or don't have because we don't have a line item for it that's where that that other miscellaneous type thing use 15 be y maybe that we can just earmark that one if we need to shave Mark that in [Music] 12 we had in 2023 992 we was 253 yeah so all right any other questions on that one just a general comment before we go to community center and I'm not sure where it would go but we talked about this earlier this year but it was voted wasn't approved so we talked about having a pay grade A study ranking done being done by the quotes we got we got rfps for that but it was voted down so I think we really and it's too late to do anything from now regarding our budget but I do think we really need to seriously look at doing a pay grade study and a ranking for each pay grade and go through that process because all these salaries that we're talking about about we're still at risk because we have to fill out a pay grade Equity or pay Equity report to the state and every position has a ranking and a number male female years of service and everything so until we do that pay grade study to U match the state pay grades we're running ourselves at risk uh Pine Island just did one about four or five years ago Pine Island they were um in violation and that was $100 a day until they got their pay at Reign for their entire staff so we need to seriously look at doing that because it is important I don't know where it fits in with our salaries today I have no idea it could be less could be more but the point is we're at risk of not having that pay grade study done so I would recommend if we're going to look at adding I say adding money to it I would look at those I would look at subcontracted services and the miscellaneous pulling money from there for something of that nature and where's that at I'm sorry on under Financial Administration the subcontracted services which we both of that was used this time for um the hiring of the city Administration position and then miscellaneous as well you know something like that I think that would fit under either one of those to be able to do that because I would look at that as a subcontracted service to do a pay study or whatever the case may be um to do that but one thing I will mention though too just just to add to that is and I I think at some point we need to do it but whenever we're setting um salaries for new positions we call LMC and they're the ones that give us the the range that and it's it's based across the state is that where we get that today yeah yeah we contact LMC and they say okay for this position um and this number of years of experience um you you well they said it takes in consideration flexibility in terms of years of experience they say it's from this number to this okay well that should that should keep us in line with what the state would want for this program yeah that's that's probably I can't I appreciate you guys doing that because it does help us but what would help us identify your grades as you go through a labor grade A and we'll go into that when we discuss that later so I think that would be a later discussion to have so I just want to keep us on track here with this so K's yawning over there I can see it out of the corner of his eyes gon fall asleep here um so K sleep um so the last one here Community Center um this one's cut back a lot of stuff this one teams are also this this is kind of his his baby area um we took out the salaries took out the salaries wages per payroll taxes because again that was something that was split amongst the community center why um reimbursement expenses there's always been something there I don't know what reimbursement expenses for the community center would be um so I took those out we haven't used them um in the last few years and I just I don't I don't feel that's a a line item need is this maybe an in and out people paying fees to use Community set no I would think it would be more like well now we have our credit cards and stuff but I was wondering if buy supplies and then get reimbursed I know so um zero that out supplies I did again in my reduction after talking with Mike canid asked for 2400 in here um I did 2,000 I do see we're over for supplies like quite a bit I don't know what all the supplies for the community center Ina that is the didn't you buy a new vacuum cleaner and some of the other Stu that would have been um r&m buildings okay basically toilet [Music] paper dises yeah sidewalk Sal um so yeah so wow I led to the 2000 he kind of kept it at 2400 I don't know if that's something we want to G thoughts honest honest I'll talk when we get to the bottom how's that yeah okay so you know I don't know thoughts I would say ear Market to look at it in December then maybe we'll know more by then I mean we're already over it by double so time because only September okay um the STS and CS work Crews can you pulled that one out right yeah you know if if we really want STS and Community work service Cruise it's very difficult to get them right now with the county the county is taking care of their own properties their own part their own facilities we get them for gold rush because we've had a relationship built over the years but but if I called them right now they'd say Kane we'll see you in six months you know and Steve had it was a county park when Steve was first getting out here y so we reduceed that to nothing um and I think honestly with the the word Cruise depending you know that for goldart that could be built out for them you know later that could be a relationship we help them grow into so um boiler and property insurance those were removed um those got folded up into our insurance coverage again so those are out of there um the telephone expenses I removed that because we were putting like our telephone expenses into here under the Community Center and to me I look at the community center this is the community center and the bathrooms and that there's no telephone service to the community center that I'm aware of maybe I Township downstairs I don't know how there's electricity so it's well I pulled that one I didn't think we needed it in there because we'll be you know our telephone expenses will be under the financial admin side of things now so electricity uh rounded up on electricity and heating just because you never know what's going to be with the weather and how I don't know this building in the winter time I'm learning it in the summertime um so your Boyer helps out right no yeah there's no heat the second level did you perfect thank you goodness I get so hot thanks for cutting great so taking these moving back over screw that over moving in y three of us in there um so yeah so those were kind of I again looking at the numbers from year to date and comparative to last year they were pretty low but I think we went up just rounded up from the the previous year up 100 and dots that's good okay um repair Maintenance building 36 you'll see we've used 10,000 of that um a lot of that's been upgrades to like the office spaces and and repairing and maintaining the building as far as getting rid of certain things and their Crews coming in and and cleaning up the space um there are a lot of other things we'd like to I would like to see from my Safety and Security side I'd like to replace some of these doors um kind of like our office door you know have upgraded doors and equipment and just kind of update some of these areas the other reason I left it so high is after this last big rainstorm when we had water coming through the roof I want them you know we have a lot now but I'm going to have them in the winter months here as we come into it start to look up there and see what needs to be replaced and taken care of and I got the Feeling there's going to be a lot of repair maintenance into this building coming up um and into next year so hence why I left it 36,000 Roofing is expensive yeah and if we need roofing like it's just and it was leaking in multiple spots so it's one of those things I you know it's not just the bell tower it was like all over um so I'm really concerned with this facility um so you been up there K yeah I have so so kind of add to what Jason's talking about not to steer everyone in a different direction but the city should seriously start looking at space needs for the city and I don't know if that's a committee I don't know if that's another uh whatever we want to form but this building is not the best building for what we're doing you got three floors three levels of where staff are going to every day right it's costing 8700 to heat the place it's it's aging there's no makeup air units there's no ventilation there's you know we're we're afraid to touch things because of the a word and the handicap accessibility and there's multiple things against this building this this building is not adequate and I just want to get that out there instead of putting $36,000 a year into this old facility that 36 could go start going towards a a newer facility a newer city hall a newer Community Center and I just want to make sure something we might pay less per year overall to getting something that's G to take years and it's I I'll say we need a new city hall we need a new community center we need a new multi-purpose facility the fire department needs more room um there's a lot of stuff out there and I at the LMC conference I met with a few vendors it was great they uh there was a few vendors that do just that kind of stuff and they help work with you through the whole project um but I'll again just echoing what he said I think Council will need to take that up and it needs to happen we're growing the city's growing um nobody likes to support new City Halls is what I keep being told but it's one of those things we need the infrastructure to support the city um and I think it's would behoove the city council to start looking at that and taking it seriously and and trying to figure out okay what are we going to do um and should we budget for that next year my personal thought is yes I don't know where I don't know how much and you know I don't know how much push back it'll get from the citizens and how much you want to push back against them I know last year's budget was a struggle for everybody um but sometimes there's a a good fight needs to be had and that's one of those things where I think you know it's not going to be a slow or it's not going to be a quick process by any means this is you know you're looking at a fiveyear commitment to get through this but starting the process now we got to start somewhere yeah because you're you're probably looking at three to five years just to to plan and know what it's going to be where it's going to be and if we can start it now then we'd be ahead of the game you know do it before you absolutely need to have it you know it's that's one of those yeah so repair maintenance obviously there's going to need to be money kept there but I think that's where I get into my thought with the misscellaneous expense as well for the community center you know we up it to 11 we could up at a lot more to help cover you know starting to look at what is this going to cost meeting with a company and I'll be honest it's probably 20 to $30,000 to have these companies do a full evaluation and they will do mockups of a building they'll do Mo help with land stuff like they they'll do it but it's going to cost money to do it and this was again just from talking to a few vendors at the LMC that were there during the the big open section um the exhibition so you know it's it's one of those things that I've got a few contacts and I I I think I've showed some of you some of the the Flyers things that I got like we could really make a great facility for the city but now's the time to do that so if there's thoughts on wanting to change it I'm all for it um just know that it's it's going to increase this year but hopefully as we grow as a city too those expenses will maintain But ultimately cost people less because we're having a higher tax base being brought in I think it's I like the idea because I do think it is warranted like the one concern that we had this year is is what going into their budget for the year percent increase because we took a pretty good increase last year and year and I'm not saying this isn't worthy of another increase but I think a lot of the things we're doing in this budget is setting us up to be in a good position to take it to the next step because basically because the technology we're taking care of a lot of those things right now so not we can't have a volunteer so what I'll tell you is right now as the budget sits not incl any adjustments today and I don't know if I put in some of the adjustments from yesterday which I don't know if they're necessarily were major ones um right now we're looking at the tax rate of 51.9% which is an increase of 10.3 from last year which from my understanding was significantly less um but our Levy sitting at 35.2% increase this year sitting at what 35.2% based off of just the how the budget's set right now now obviously again we look at cutting but I will tell you that tax rate I've talked with cities in our area and our County I just got off the I had a meeting a check-in meeting with the Al from Byron the CATE administrator over there and you know he's they're consistent with theirs you know they just finished their budget stuff and they're they're you know they had a slight increase or maybe not a whole lot but their tax rat consistent at about 10% higher than what we're at right now anyways they're sitting at 60 something than 61 62% in that range um so we still are low even with this for our area last year um our general Levy the tax rate was 41.6% of our taxil taxability taxability yeah our ability to tax yeah that's our ability to tax right we were we were at what percent 41.6 which is extremely low for the area um I'm with Ry um I'm I'm all for it I would rather not see it maybe give give us taxpayers a little bit of a break and I think the plan should be is is to start you know put a communication plan together to start communicating that hey we have to start looking at this and in that communication plan put these numbers that you put together to say this is really what our current city hall is costing us um and and then there's some things that are that you can't measure so I I like the idea but I would rather not do it year we can start to plan I think this is all predicated to by the growth we're going to see yeah whether it's residential commercial that's going to help support anything we do going forward two to three years no a certain point you know if you're looking at replacing a facility you're going to be starting to cut back on the maintenance of the one you currently have so you know where do you where do you go with that you don't want to you don't want to cut that currently right now we got place going I think there's ways to think about that is you do the bare minimum you get by right you just get by now 5 years from now SA move out of this facility into a new facility right what would we take with us and what are you going to do with this you know is it on the historical registry no so then we don't have to worry okay so back to what I'm saying though is what would you take out of this building You' take the documents the files the computers some furniture big screens some furniture we're not talking of a lot of value to that stuff right when you take this whole building there's not not right so and and by then in five more years are these computers and Technology we currently have going to be Obsolete and the chairs worn out and the desk and obsolete today you buy that stuff chairs right so I just you know for me uh maintaining this facility is having the understanding from Council and other staff that we're going to do the the bare minimum here we're going to we're going to keep this place going keep the lights on we're going to keep the lights on so with my thought with this looking at this budget I look at repair and maintenance and and miscellaneous with what we have currently budgeted I go okay well if if we decide to move forward next year with let's have someone come out and help us well to me repair and maintenance repairing the building and maintenance of it miscellaneous I can say all those expenses are you know would fall under those categories so whether that be you know this is the to build it or you know or the another one but to me it would be a repair and maintenance of this facility in these grounds so in my mind I could articulate that those costs could be absorbed under either one of those if that's something the council agrees with but you know or thinks is okay but otherwise yeah we'll probably have to look at changing some of those expenses thoughts well I do think it's worthy of kind of agree with Jim what he was saying too but I do think we need to say at the very minut say in 2028 well we're not we're not making decision I want to make sure we're doing this clear we're not making decisions I'm just looking for these two numbers par mantenance and miscellaneous are we comfortable with those or do we want to increase those okay we got to we got to do something with the roof right now there's no question that's that would that's going to eat up a lot of repair and maintenance that's what I get into if we 11,000 to you to contract in I mean realistically probably be looking closer to 20 to get an adequate work started on this stuff um not saying that all those costs would be used upfront right away depending on a contract with the company obviously could be extended out into 2026 um so that's where I look at miscellaneous would need to be increased but well if you don't maintain this building the maintenance then you're basically saying you're going to tear it down well I mean yeah we're going to maintain the building so it's habitable but you know w i mean as best we can but again it's it's yeah there's Forward Thinking I think everybody's kind of on the same page where we're going to need to change something talk about the rule what what do we think I have been up there I saw five different leaks that night but are they coming from one place do you know they're coming from the the KOA I guess you call it the the center of the building so the rain was coming sideways we had a driving rain well there was also from the windows up here too was coming down yeah it's not the first time and it's not the first time an estimate To Us by September 20th as far as fix here so we can still include these extra dollars yeah because we could adjust it because it could be just ath at the very latest yeah we could definitely take a look at it solidify theb we're gonna leave these numbers in here 36 and 11 we can talk about it after think you up on that you know think there all right so that's all I have for those sections is there anything else any comments questions concerns all right I'm done good job 630 good job good job sometimes I it was be a long what it is but I know I can tell you I've got two of them yeah