people are going. >> Hi Evan. >> Hello. Good evening. >> All right, we are at 6:30 and with that we're going to call the city of Orno planning and zoning meetings to order. First on there on the agenda for this
evening, roll call. I am Commissioner Kathy Brandt Rucker. John Evans >> here. >> Grant Koser and he was going to be gone. Jim Phillips >> here. >> Scott Sorenson >> here. Dan Spring >> here. >> Thank you. We currently do have one open
position. Um staff, do we have Evan Mson? >> Good evening. Can you hear me? >> Yes, we can. Palin >> and Jason Baker is present. >> Thank you.
Uh with that, do it does anyone have any changes for the agenda for this evening? All right. With that, I would take a motion if anybody wanted to approve the agenda. >> I make a motion to approve the agenda. >> Thank you, Jim. Second. >> Second. Thank you. All in favor of the
agenda, say I. >> Any opposed? And we are moving forward. Agenda passed. Uh, at this point, I know we don't have any minutes in the packet. I know we have been working, Dan, and I say we Dan's been working hard to try
and pull all those together. So >> yes, >> maybe at our next time we meet, we will have a huge packet of minutes to read through and approve. >> So the ones that I brew are what we're going to have because we've canled Otter AI.
>> Okay. >> Um and those our meeting minutes weren't on there anyway to be able to pull off of. >> Um so we'll have to find a different route to retrieve old minutes. >> Okay. So Jason, did you have one you
were looking at before that I heard you mention that another >> There's a few different ones Daniel and I were talking about possibly trying to see if they work for us at all. We're going to continue to work for them and see what we can get be able to see how they do. They've come even in the last
year the technology on them has come a lot further than what it was when I first started and we were playing with different ones. So >> good. >> Yeah. >> All right. looking forward to that at some point in time. Uh public hearings, we have no public hearings for this month. So, uh,
with that, legally, my philosophy is always, and you've seen the last couple months, if we don't specifically have a public hearing that we need to be meeting for, my preference is always to save all of our volunteers times and the city money by not having a meeting just
to have discussion items unless there's a project underway or some type of update that needs to be done. But just for that, no public hearings for January. I know there were some that were going to potentially be here, but they have been delayed. So, more to come
on that in the future. >> Yeah, they'll be in March. >> March. >> No's got all that paperwork getting ready and ready to go. So, >> thank you. Um, with that, moving into new business. And I did let Dan know he could be first here. We've got just a
discussion on meetings, dates, times. Currently, we are the second Thursday at 6:30. Currently we're the first Thursday. >> First Thursday. So my error in writing there. >> Yep. So first so the tenative approved
schedule by council is the first Thursday at 6:30. So we moved up a week. >> Now >> up to this point we've always been the second Thursday. >> Up to this point you've always been the second. Correct. >> Okay. Um, we still have some leniency to where
if if that Thursday for whatever reason isn't working for people, we can move it. But we needed to move it from the second Thursday uh because it was about 8 months out of the year that we couldn't get our packet items to council sta or to staff on time to get council
packets out for the council meeting. Um, so currently it's moved to the first Thursday. So moving forward from here, uh, it'll be the first Thursday at 6:30 unless we come up with alternative
times. And I think we just have to work around um, probably what's on the Ornoo calendar >> to make sure that we don't get double booked with
So we would be looking at the next meeting the 5th >> correct >> 35 42. >> So I guess I guess the big discussion would have to be if we wanted to
um if we wanted to keep it at the first Thursday. That way we're two weeks ahead of the council meeting. The other option would be to um push it to the third or fourth Thursday after the
council meeting and we would just be that much further ahead. So, if we went that route, we'd probably have to have a special meeting um early in March to get things on to the March meeting. But moving forward,
we could then meet again. But that I think keeping it the fifth or the first Thursday works out fine for me. I don't have any problems, but I'm open to whatever. >> I just look at
Yeah, I'm good. >> No, I think it let's give that a try >> and then if we run into a snag, you know, and it gets to be an issue, then let's address it at that time. But if it's a lease start, let's, you know, let's give that a
>> Yeah. And if we do opt to jump it behind a council meeting, we either need to do it in a month where we don't have anything, but we would have canled that meeting anyway or we need to have a special meeting >> prior to that month's council meeting to just
>> catch up and then yeah, make sense. >> So with that, we're currently the second Thursday is what we have been meeting. So, I guess I did write that correct, but we're going to move to then Y >> the first Thursday is what council prefer us to move to. All right.
>> Is there a reason that it needs to be on a Thursday? >> No, they're just pretty they're pretty Thursdays are pretty wide open >> as far as the as far as the room availability. Um, it's just tradition like traditionally I think it's just
been held on Thursdays, but I'm looking here and I'm seeing like Wednesdays look pretty wide open and >> Wednesdays are usually wide open, but they're usually that's a day that's busy with kids activities. I think it's >> traditionally good. >> But Mondays and Tuesdays are pretty
packed with meetings, city meetings. So that's why they kind of think Thursday was the day. You can always do it at like noon, too. Yeah. And like Mondays are going to be fire and first responders like um parks
and trails are on Mondays. Um township comes in on Monday. So pretty much Mondays are are booked. Nobody wants to come here on a Friday. >> Yeah. >> And looks like some Tuesdays are open. Some all Wednesdays are open
and a lot of the Thursdays. So yeah, it doesn't have to be a Thursday. It can be um another day. And if we know ahead of time, we can always reschedu meeting, >> go with the Thursday and give it a try.
>> Yeah. Great. >> Yeah. >> And we'll make sure that Grant also gets that information so he knows. And we've got potentially a new person coming on, Justin. So, we'll make sure if that
works with his schedule as well, but if we've got enough to at least make quorum and make sure that we can meet when we do have to. >> Do we need to have a motion that make a motion change to the first Thursday started at 6:30? So, make that motion.
>> Yes. Thank you. >> Second. All in favor of changing this to the first Thursday instead of the second, please say I. >> Any opposed? All right. We are moving the next meeting will actually be March
5th. Same spot, same time but different week. >> Uh with that moving Oh, yeah. >> May first Thursday >> May 7th. >> Okay, that'll still be fine.
There's start May starts on a Friday. >> Yes. >> So that'll still work out. >> Yep. I went through and looked real quick. None of the Thursdays are holidays, so July 2nd, I think, was as close as we could get. >> Perfect. That gives us plenty of time to to get
what we need to to council. >> Yeah. Uh, next up, we've got February workshop dates. And there are a couple different dates coming down the pipeline here.
These are my understanding is related to the RFP that we the city had requested gosh a year and a half two years ago that what was happening is the maybe three years ago this all started. Um the city was having trouble just navigating
the code when people were coming in to just get routine requests and the request was the code is causing problems. So reworking the zoning code, rewriting it to make bring it into this century and make it easier to navigate
as well as ultimately have some more training and some packets and different things that we can do at the end of this. So with that, we did pass it off to council last year and so it's been sitting there for a couple months and my
understanding and maybe Jason, you've got some more and I can see my dates here are completely wrong. >> Yeah. No, >> you could tell us the correct dates and times here. >> We got the 19th and then the week after that which is the 26th.
Indie, I don't need the calendar up. I'm trying to pull it up, but I think they're at 6:30. At least the 19th is at 6:30. I know that for sure. >> February or sorry, March 19th. >> Do we have one this month? >> Is it March February? It's February. So
219. And what time is that one? >> 6:30. >> At 6:30. >> Yep. >> And is that at this location? >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Be here >> at city hall. >> And then the 26th is at 5:30. >> Yeah. 2:26
and that one's at 5:30 also here. >> Yep. >> And are they also on Zoom or just improve? >> Yeah, they'll be on Zoom. >> Okay. >> Um and yeah, they're kind of to go over and council main focus is council like Kathy said, we redid the zoning codes. It went through the steering
committee, went through PNZ and is now in council's lap. And we're gonna give them time to sit down and go through them, ask any questions. Evan will be present. um for sure on the 19th uh here in person. Uh but go through them, ask any questions they may have, talk
amongst themselves as counselors to debate and go, "No, we like this or maybe we should change this and whatever the case may be." Hopefully not too much. We've put a lot of >> Yeah, there was a lot of uh community imported to this one, >> a lot of community engagement. So, but
that's kind of their time to get it looked at and get it ready for my goal hopefully March council meeting to get it done. >> That would be ideal. Now, one of the things when the RFP was written, it was written to include additional training
and packet. basically your top couple things that you get for requests at city hall to make sure staff have prefilled or pre-loaded packets of you want a swimming pool or a new deck, here's your paperwork or here's So, there's supposed
to be some time. I do know though that there have been a lot of extra meetings that council has added the last couple months that may have chewed up the budget. >> Yeah, there uh the budget's about $60,000 over what was projected. >> Yeah, it was on track back then. So,
We're not getting any extra charges for anything like that, but they're basically WSB is done. So, I'll talk with Lori and see if they've got any of that stuff put together, but we'll have to kind of figure out from there. >> Yeah, because I know we had allocated
a number of hours and when we passed it off, my understanding is we were about as close to on budget as could be when we sent it off to council. So, >> and pushed us over budget with just having >> all the additional meetings.
>> Her she didn't come to any of the meetings though. I mean, she >> she came to one that there >> I think there was an additional um community event that they did that wasn't initially budgeted for. And then
there was additional time coming to meetings and doing rewrites on stuff and just additional staff time >> after oh we getting it back. They may not have been here but it was oh this is the corrections we want done and fixed and how this should be. And so there was a lot of additional work on the back end
of that that up staff time. >> There was was there some legal checks too off of that? >> Yeah. the the shoreland section that ate up a lot because there was a lot with we had to work with the state DNR on and legal on for that section. So, let's not touch that one. Council members, just
>> that one's been through the ringer pretty good. >> That one's pretty black and white at the state law level that you just you don't have the flexibility. Even if you'd like to, you just don't have that flexibility. No, my understanding is our requests that P and Z were the last requests that for changes that were made
because council hasn't made any changes yet. >> That's what these workshops will hopefully be very short. >> Yes. >> About brief. But >> so if you can make that >> the two right the 219 and 226.
>> Yeah. 6:30 then 5:30. Yeah. >> Yes. And I am not sure yet if I can make those with my job, but we'll see. So 219 and 226 are the dates on those. 219 at
6:30, 2:26 at 5:30, but both will also be on Zoom or city hall. >> And then the RFP requests, >> is that also going to be discussed at the workshop? There'll be two separate workshops. 3:19 at 5:30
and 3:30 at 5:30. >> 3:19 and 3:30 and both are 53. >> Okay. >> Those are the RFP workshops that are currently scheduled. >> All right. So, just to back all this up,
so back when Sunny was city administrator and was saying that the code was getting in the way and we basically took the community in, came out with a rewrite, that's where it's at today. Phase two or the next piece of that when we were writing that and
talking about it here and talking about the city is to make sure that it's supported. And in looking at the contract there really it had been some time since they just looked at budgeting and making sure not that anybody is or isn't doing their job but it's just good
economic sense to have that checks and balances and to open it up to make sure we're still getting the appropriate level of service. There are things out there that Zoom wasn't invented maybe the last time they looked at this actually in depth. So there are things
and but the part of it that we were concerned on was the planning and zoning support knowing that the city does have other arms of the industries that go out and do other pieces of engineering different pieces and that but with us our focus
was P&Z. So that was going to be the next RFP to turn around and get that out. So now that's looking to be not just our PNZ one. The question was to council is do you want more on it than just the P&Z? And so I think there's a
discussion that's gonna happen there. >> Did I sum that up? Okay. Okay. Paul asked for engineering RFP and we were talking about the zoning RFP and so since most companies do both services, we thought that we should probably just
include those two things together. And so I don't know which order these will be in, but one of these is going to be discussing uh what we're looking for on the RFP. And then and I don't know if we'll do it independently like zoning and
engineering independently. And then the second meeting or hopefully like the second half of the meeting is going to be where we're going to be talking about like quantitative metrics of how we can actually um look at these RFPs when they come in
because we don't want to look at just a dollar amount and say >> and we did that on our last round of RFPs when we looked at it. So we actually had score sheets that we used when we interviewed everybody. So it was not strictly dollar amount. It was also responsiveness to questions. It was, you
know, how quickly do you get back to us in a timely manner. There were a number of different factors that we looked at. >> So that's good. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Uh so that was really a letter B under
new business and we also picked up and I think crossed off under old business I had RFP draft discussion. So let's cross that off as done as well. Jumping around a little bit there. Um, if we move into new business, we've got an open position. We did have an application
that we received for Justin. I don't know that he is in the room this evening to take any questions. I wasn't sure if he's able to make this the second Thursday or if he could make the next first Thursday.
Um >> I think we need to have him here, you know, and answer questions and that or will we do anything with it. So I think that's important part of it. So >> process put that on still. >> Yeah. >> And so that's fine. I will put that on
for next month or whenever we meet if there's still no public hearings. Right now we are scheduled to have public hearings. So we should be meeting in March. But could you let Justin know that we will have him on for next month? Sorry, chill.
>> Does he have a do we have as a um PNC? Do we have >> we have an application that I >> was some questions on there? >> I included the application we received in the email. We sent out the >> any additional I know that with ADA we asked additional
questions. >> Usually if people have questions they can just bring them and ask them nothing formal. >> Have any questions you forward to them? >> Yeah. If you have any you want to send in advance, >> let Jason or me know. >> All right. So, no recommendation coming
out of that yet. We'll just move that to next month. Also, under old business, then uh we still have some open officer positions. Think about it. I think the the discussion previously was once we are all staffed up and full here, all of our
volunteer spots are filled that maybe we would talk about some backups and some other positions. So, Dan, you already covered minutes of prior meetings briefly. So, thank you for your work on that. Uh, monthly incoming zoning applications and
questions. So, we did get a copy and I did print hard copies for everybody. Um, the permit report, so November through the end of January. And knowing that we just got that this evening because of me,
because I did not email that out to everybody. I just have hard copies for y'all. Uh, but with that, I don't know, Jason, if there's any that you want to highlight, anything interesting that we should be aware that's happened since November permit-wise.
I know there was a meeting with a developer or somebody in December, a Zoom one, and that's the one that at that exact moment I had to drop off the meeting because my daughter was in a car accident. So, >> I'm trying to remember what all we've done since November. Um, >> yeah,
>> see, greeners are still moving forward with their stuff. I haven't heard from them in a while, but they're pushing forward on their project when I isolate. >> Okay. >> Um, we've got the two over like Casey's um, Jungies and LDM
Electric that are coming along the process, but they've been moving forward throughout the winter. They've got internal stuff going and doing. Um, what else we have?
I think the lots across from Casey's have been sold those because that's all owned by People's Energy. Um, so they've got that sold and looking to build there. I don't >> Have we heard any more about that? I know they came through here briefly at
one point, but I have not heard any updates one way or the other. >> It's a different one, I think, that you're looking >> than the people than the other ones. So, the lots we're looking at are the ones that are in the city right now. Those are there should be the one right across from Casey's not >> in that culdeac. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. >> Three lots right across from Casey's there. >> Okay. >> That was first buy or I was looking at >> USA. Yeah. So I don't we haven't heard anything other than the lots have been sold. So they've got them sold to them
and I think that project's going to be moving forward here coming in the spring. Um and then Peoples is um they've got their lot north of them. They are waiting on council to approve this um so they can start moving forward with figuring out what they're going to
do, how they're going to do it. Um that's kind of at a standstill right now. A lot of things are patiently waiting for the zoning codes to get finished. Um, same with the excuse me, the uh CIC development, the Dragons development,
the condos there on the east side here. Um, those are going to be moving forward in the spring. Just kind of again waiting for the finalization there. We're done a little back and forth, but it's been well, not since last year, the
end of last year, uh, with the development agreement with them. So, we're still kind of working on that, but they're again waiting for council to finish the zoning stuff so they can start properly planning their project. >> Um, and then there was a meeting with
some folks on the out in the township area southwest um south of is 100th Street there on the south side of town here. Um and then the west they're interested in some projects and
how that might impact Oronoko. Right now it's you met with them in the township and it's it's township for now because obviously we still have all the stuff on the north side of 100 there that hasn't been annexed in. >> U but that's I think that's a future project we're looking
>> four or five years down the road before. >> I was going to say because I know the orderly annexation agreement is still in place with the township there. So >> yeah, >> anything from uh King? >> No, not a word from Linda King. That's
nothing from that development. So still waiting to hear back from that. That I think that the six months is up in March if I remember right. So we're going to look into that a little bit more here towards the end of the month. And um yeah, that's kind of and then I know there was talk east of her development.
There's there was rumblings of a gentleman wanting to build out there um to the property to the east of there, but nothing really official. Just kind of things you hear. So >> that again with the new Hamilton owner
>> uh for Ari's old lots. No, I haven't heard anything from those. >> Okay. >> So, >> and then nothing with the drain field that there is over in River. >> The last thing I got was from Joe where he was saying that he wasn't sure that
anything could be done with it. So, it's been kind of going back and forth on >> that it wasn't a buildable lot or that >> that it's because it was designated as green space even though it's
a drain field or was a drain field that because it was designated as green space might put limitations on what we can do with it in the future. So that was the last email that and that
was six, eight weeks ago probably at this point. So we've kind of just let that >> find a hard answer one way or the other, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Um so yeah, so that that's but we haven't
had anybody like one one building company came in and talked about it and we haven't heard anything back from them about it. So, I think it's just kind of like, okay, well, until we have more inquiries on it or till we know exactly how we're going
to move forward or what we'd like to do, probably don't burn up time with Joe trying to figure out exactly what what we can do. So, >> I think you'd want to at least get an answer to know what's your options are though, one way or the other.
>> Yeah. >> I mean, get a solid answer. >> Yeah. We just haven't pushed him on it since he came back with that email. Um, and I think that that's something that we would we would >> like to see happen. But
>> yeah, have we received I know we had a manufactured home going just a few years a year, two years ago and it was supposed to I've heard that's supposed to be temporary and they have we gotten any building permit requests? I heard at some point they might be moving that off
now and putting in a permanent house there. used to be. I know that was >> you're talking about the Well, it wasn't the mobile home the second second avenue. Yeah. >> No, I just I'm just curious if you've received any request for a building
permit yet. >> No, that and then again that wasn't necessarily temporary. >> No, I know it wasn't. >> It was permanent. So, and I don't think >> per minute it's there, but I've just heard that we might I just curious if we
got anything as it was. this permit and >> it's temporary. >> We don't we don't we don't want to get into that one. Okay. >> It is a button for we don't >> No, I know it is, but I just heard that that's a possibility at some point. So, >> I have not have not heard on that.
>> Okay. I just if we haven't gotten any permit requests or any inquiries, that's all I was kind of wondering. We we did have the one home that there was that was going what was it across almost from DG Market that they were finishing over there that was done probably about two
years ago when they split that off. >> Oh yeah. >> And that one I think that's that's doing pretty good. So I mean looking at some of these >> smaller homes that have come in and the other one over here >> Yeah. >> you know have have been I think pretty good for for what been for the city.
minor applications throughout the winter time here that people coming in doing stuff, >> you know, and I think that's positive apart from that. So, >> and as far as code side with stuff, speaking of houses in that area, >> um little bit of code enforcement stuff, Mary Nash's property, they got a they
tore down the cease and assist. I had Randy go put up another notice. Um it's getting to the point now where they're kind of on their final warning to make their decisions before it's going to have to go to council. We're going to force them to take down this
nice shed that they did put up to store their property, but have not yet filled out the proper permits. Didn't put up a permit. Never should have been put up in the first place because there's no house. So, council is going to have to make that decision at some point of >> I can't remember. I know when I was on
township zoning years years ago, there was a shed that got put up, a brand new shed out in the township, and it wasn't done correctly. And I can't remember if it was even too close to the property line or might have been over a property line even. And they ended up having to tear down a new shed out there.
>> Well, this isn't that big, you know, take it down, you know. So >> Oh, it's it's I mean, it's big enough where it's not supposed to be there without a fire. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with that. But but it's so >> it's put on they built it on top of a cement pad that already existed. >> Oh.
>> They just put it up after the house was torn down. And they tried to claim it was up before the house was torn down, but I had pictures day of demolition and you could clearly see there's no shed there on the >> Yeah. So, but it's one of those >> that makes sense to have a shed there.
But yeah, I get riding first. >> They got the vehicles gone finally. So, there's there's been a lot of progress on that property and it's kind of that point of, you know, where does the city want to push it? And you know, I'm okay enforcing it as we need to, but if the
city's okay with this particular owner being the shut up for storing that, the problem is what does that shed become down the road? It becomes a hoarder place or not, I don't know. Um, but um, for right now, it's just it's full of stuff, but not it's like you would normally fill a shed. You got they got a
I think a quad there and a riding mower and some other stuff I saw. So, there's really not much more. They do maintain the property. They're out there mowing it and using that. So, >> it's improved, but there's still just that live shooting.
>> So, >> the driveway request I think was coming up and nothing else has been done with that. >> Yeah, that's for Mike >> getting on a year. So, I'll probably drop that one. >> Yeah, do that one and he's got to figure out what he's going to do. >> Well, I with that I've talked with Evan
a little bit. I haven't brought in I haven't gotten a formal request from him that I'm aware for a permit for a second driveway. I know he's talked about it a few times, but um >> yeah, it was an inquiry I have here. So, >> yeah, because he bought the property, I think, and had all that stuff changed
>> on that north when it was for sale. Evan, did you were you able to look at that at all for opinion? Yeah. So, that lot they wanted a second driveway. And I did double check your code here before the meeting, but section 94.20
is in your code about u driveway permits and you're allowed up to one when you're residential. And any additional driveways, you have to request a variance from the city of that. So, if they do want that second driveway, they have to stop and the city has some paperwork and that come for you guys and
zoning. Yeah, >> because we have had a public hearing before for somebody else for a second driveway. >> And it's not only that, but it was a right turn lane, I think, was a part of was because of And I didn't bring this up too, so you wouldn't have known to look for this.
>> Um, there is a right turn lane off of Fifth Street there that turns onto Minnesota >> and that's kind of where that driveway would be at. And I don't think the county or state, is it whatever? Yeah, you have very close proximity turning with that driveway and then that
intersection as well. So it' be a little >> Yeah, >> a little bit of a mess potentially to allow that. >> So I guess until he brings something forward. >> So nothing more on that one. So next month you might not see that one on here since it's been about a year on that inquiry.
>> Yeah, the people's entertainment. >> We have people's just untitled future and I had nothing. >> We just talked about that. So >> So we're we're good there. Anything else that we don't have on here? I have the dates though. 219, 226,
319, and 3:30 would be the workshops. And then the next meeting will be March 5th for us. So, unless somebody's got something different on those dates, just to make sure we're all in agreement on those dates, >> I would make a motion to
>> I make a motion to adjourn. >> We'll second that. >> First and a second to adjourn. We are at uh 703. Anyone? All in favor say I. >> I. >> Anyone opposed? Motion carries. We are officially adjourned. 703.
>> Thank you. >> Have a good night.