##VIDEO ID:WTCKcbrVizE## H well that was miserable that probably went up pretty fast huh it did we couldn't Hollow water fast enough and they didn't have the system with nutal uh agreements mut Aid yeah mutual Aid stuff so it was a little bit of a it was totally a lost cause okay it's Tuesday January 14th our water and sewer committee meeting we have four people here so we have a quorum so with that we have the agenda is the first thing and I would like to add let's see under talking about the next meeting in February the 11th U I'd like to propose considering them moving it if it's available for everybody to join on Monday Night February the 10th it's a Monday night so we can't use this room because it's a townships in here but we could go to the wastewater treatment plan admin Administration conference room I am uh I'm out on vacation from the 9th to the 17th 9th to the 17th okay so let's talk about that when we get to that it's in there to to talk about just make sure it's I don't think we need anything in the agenda but we'll talk about it when we get to that point there no other changes I'll make a motion we approve the agenda as presented second any other comments favor sign saying I next item is the December 10th meeting minut packet I gave you there I'll make a motion to approve the uh December minutes I'll second that also signify by saying [Music] I so Joe with our contract wastewater treatment plant any updates here uh no pay request um in terms of the switch gear we continue to wait uh last I had heard as of last week uh we were told that uh you we're waiting on one one of two panels for the switch gear and the second panel apparently they were waiting for a um transfer switch and that transfer switch apparently came in so supposedly they'll be able to finish manufacturer and deliver it hopefully in late January or early February of course um they won't tell you that for sure and um we are planning to wait until March anyway until it warms up to install it so hopefully it comes um January building or some of it outside I think some of it's outside well might be inside or one I don't I don't remember I think it is all inside in the pre-treatment um in terms of contractor activities we did have um a fair amount of HVAC punch list items get addressed Valor was out on Monday yesterday along with with whb um to do the HVAC controls and uh the two combination of both of those contractors got uh essentially most of the punch list work done I think there's still one um fan that they determined was was burnt out and needs to be replaced uh in one of the units and they did order that um but I think all the other items kind of got addressed I don't know Kane's not here um but Jeff was out on site and they got quite a lot done so that's good so I think pretty much um pretty much everything got addressed aside from that one that one uh one item and not a good address so which one was that in or was it in the uh there's a I got a whole email here if you want to see it in terms of the the item that the R treatment building uh the tertiary building electric unit heater not working in electrical room verified heating element works but fan motors bad Valor is ordering the part for replacement um and I think they've replaced that same fan multiple times so not sure really what's going on that is qu don't know it's awfully suspicious they seem to check everything and seem to say it checks out but put a new fan and then it burns out again so um so that's really the update uh on the operations side of things we did have mpc's um annual inspection today uh and in combination with that um the operator has been having some issues um that the mpca wanted to talk about and so if you kind of look back in their operations history uh they had some issues in October and November where they did meet the phosphorus limit you can see that on the graphs that they provide um and then most recently um so that issue really had to do with um the tubing that carries Alum from the uh tanks inside the uh tery building to the spr and one of the fittings cracked and broke and the Alum was feeding back through the conduit and not getting the Wastewater and it took apparently well over a month to figure that out um but when they did figure it out it corrected the phosphorus issue um and so I think they F fixed that in mid October or I'm sorry mid November and by the end of the month they were back on Target and then um they were well under limit in the January in the January DMR so ECA was happy about that obviously not happy that we had two continuous months where we didn't meet the limit but apparently that's why uh and then took that long to find it it took a long time to find it which is concerning yes they don't have very good trer shooting techniques or something yeah I wonder a little bit about that I think uh I'm not sure should say hands on they are AR I'm not there so it's just conjecture on my part uh the other issue is really meeting the the nitrogen limit um if you look at their little you guys have a copy of this yeah you can see the nitrogen limit is 10 and they've been kind of up and down on whether they've been able to meet that or not um in December they did not meet it uh and in fact they were up in the 20s and uh in The Operators you know I kind of included his comments about the nitrogen there you can kind of see they met it in August they met it didn't meet it in September they met it in they're close to meeting it in October they didn't meet it in November and then in December they were at about 25 and so you know the concern that they have is the cold cold water temperatures impact that uh treatment process and we didn't find out that they had were having issues until January 2nd when we got contacted we did get Asylum involved along with our Wastewater Engineers uh and we had some discussion today but um I think that there needs to be some sounds to me like there needs to be some changes in how they're operating in cold weather conditions um that will hopefully address the issue so what you're saying it is true cold weather does affect yeah from what I understand yeah it slows down the process and you've got to account for that uh and I think it will be challenging when it's called out to address that but it can be done is it something where we may have to build a building over that or something so that it that would be even bigger bigger headache it would be that'd be kind of an extreme solution I I'm hoping it's from what I'm being told it's an operational issue we we need to operate the facility differently and so that's what we that's what we need to work on the concern is it you know when they're having problems they've got to reach out and say we're having problems and not just try to fix it themselves I think is one of the things that I tried to reinforce in the meeting today is you know if if if stanta can help you got to let us know if xylm can help you got to let us know uh when xyum got involved in the June made a huge difference yeah that was three months after startup they came back I believe and right did some more in-depth training right and that that made a difference and so I think um as you go from fall to winter things change and that process changes and there's a bit of the learning curve there too and to talk to people with the experience on how to address it within their system makes a lot of sense itum procedure that we need to be I think so aware of it versus our operators not knowing how to do it or is it well I just it's a combination of you need more bacteria in the tanks and your different stages of treatment take different months of time because the bacteria are working slower and so you know it's you don't really have a summer winter switch you kind of need to continuously adjust those as because it's it's really related to the the ground temperature and as the ground temperature keeps getting colder and colder the waste water keeps getting colder and colder until March and then things start kind of coming back up and then you start backing off on things you can shorten timers yeah I want to say the water temperature was like 41 today that's really cold it's pretty cold yeah so so you know there's some challenges there to work through um but I think at least we've engaged the right folks to help address the issue and hopefully as we work through the winter we'll work for guys so I don't see this toal nitrogen even on this payment I see ammonia nitrogen but not totally um I find table very difficult to read personally yeah I do too I don't know that I had a question about the $4,000 extra dollars for chemical budget why was over $4,000 more was budged too that Rel to the Alum and everything else that's cold weather effects it could be it could be just I I don't know do you have any idea I was wondering maybe it's just a function of they ordered chemical at the end of the year you know the tanks get down they had budget I don't I don't know what they do I'm going to look into that Ryland and figure out because I think it could be as simple as that like Joe said they just ordered chemical you know so now now they get chemical through I don't know but I didn't I didn't think to ask that today okay but one of the one of the things that we should note is mainly because of that phosphorus issue that they had in uh October November it wouldn't surprise me if you get a letter from the PCA basically and know as a violation um fortunately with the repair of that um um chemical line that's been addressed in their back on limit but um you know you never want to get those letters that that there not so one question about the Asylum and the cold weather I would expect that would have been their training manuals cold weather procedures I would think so yeah this is this shouldn't be rocket science I mean it's just it's Midwest or what it it is my expectation too high here yeah um that's really a northern climate thing I mean people in Florida don't have to worry about about that and so although it it is something that impacts our system I wouldn't expect that training to necessarily come from xylm but it does it should be um we should be getting that from a Class A operator that understands cold weather operation different from people's and but the the SV and honestly 41 degrees that's very cold I mean yeah that it's the reason it's that cold is because it's been in it's our tension times are so long and that that is outside of the range of normal and so I would get that most of the plants they work at they haven't seen temperatures that cold I think that they said it was coming into the plant at 45 yeah I think for example going out at 41 which is cold coming in too I thought yeah I think Rochester right now is 60 I think 44 at the SBR Joe yeah I just was looking at my note it does say 44 so 44 coming going out I think I was just looking at this yesterday Rochester the coldest it's gotten in the last 10 years is like 55 and that that's a function of very low flows going through a plant that's designed to flow much more water than it's probably currently getting and that is one of the challenges too our flows are are pretty modest we have no we have no ey and ey it's just Wastewater flows how many connections do we have left I got it right here uh we got 49 sewer users to go I was guessing 50 so that's what I told PCA Joe what about using the smaller tank I know there was some dialogue with in your email but they didn't really touch on it we talked about it today they didn't seem to think that that that um who's they operators peoples yeah is isn't something that they seem to want to do because in the very beginning I remember people saying you guys don't got enough flow for 30 years you know all this this place is so big your flow is so small we're going to be in this for three years before we even decant right that's all they talked about and then we had issues between the different basins and the the actuators you guys recall that so it was we used this larger tank we ended up using a large tank a fullsize basin and now what they're saying and what I'm hearing is that we shouldn't be in that larger tank well if it's even if it's coming in at 45 I mean that's still really low so it's it's not like it's coming in at 55 and leaving at 40 that would be a little more concerning but I think switching to a smaller tank maybe wouldn't wouldn't have that great of an impact terms of temperature we did talk talk about that I honestly I didn't follow the conversation like a waste water engineer would but um we did talk about that and I think that's another item that we can talk with zym about and get some input because that would seem to make some sense from at least you know a common sense standpoint yeah if we don't have enough quality bugs right now for a large Basin maybe we'd have enough for half the size Bas yeah the other part of that is it probably sits in that Forest man between lift station one and the plant for a long time so it's probably losing a lot of heat there too and the various the stations around town so yeah just think about the depth of the lines on the city Side they're probably all seven feet well everything's that the Trader part I mean it's probably not seven it's not freezing up either but it might be less than seven so I just don't know what influence that blow from theer Park would have on my guess is it's close you know the water comes out of the houses probably at a composite temperature up there a fair ways and it gets to the treatment plant from or noo Estates pretty quick because their collections you know it's it's all gravity system to one collection and about a quar mile of force pain so it's different than waste water from town going out there like you said it just takes longer that's a pretty big line designed for future capacities that's true compared to theirs I mean they're probably at 75% of their is this a COR review with npca I think it's an annual review but we they requested we do it early because of the phosphorus issues that they observed in the dmrs and October November reason I because we had one back when Cory came down in October September that was just kind of a check off initial oh in March oh yeah before startup before start up yeah well this is the annual yeah okay well and you I think the discussion was mainly what's going on with the POs and uh unfortunately we there there was a rational answer for that the issue have been correct that was the that was impetus for them so so Joe when you when you indicated tonight that we may get notice of violation what what happens after that what does that look like for the city for the permit for peop I guess could you walk us through what that will may look like or are fines are there I don't think there's any fines um you know unless it continues to happen over and over again Dylan do you have maybe more experience and I I don't have a lot of experience in that honestly my my general impression you know pca's first um their first priority is to try to get folks back into compliance and work with cities to try to make that happen um as long as from what I've heard and I don't have any personal experience but as long as uh folks are are making an effort to get back into compliance um enforcement actions are more of a carrot than a stick you don't make the effort or you know you're just completely screwing up then you get the stick that's that's my assumption um Daniel Dan was there and Herb was there yeah and I don't know I is Dave ever out there anymore Dave Lane he is I think he's just getting rotated through the other facilities facilities yeah when I spoke with Dave he was he wasn't he didn't make it clear to me that he was just a dedicated oroko operator his his role is really as a auxiliary operator or something where he pills in for whoever needs help making the rounds I had the kind of an alternate understanding but I'm sure you're right I just thought he was kind of hired for that position was what I kind of understanding um we did get a DMR from not a DMR but their little report I don't know any body had any takeaways from that we talked about that a little bit WS are up a little bit more in November which good so we were under all limits for the month of November that's what their their memo says bullet number one on the front page of this report yeah but the phosphorus number for November obviously is not obviously and and I don't see the total nitrogen is even on the on the spreadsheet um and so I think that this I'm just guessing here is this is what they prepare for all their clients and most plants aren't treating for nitrogen and so it's not on there but EI either way I think we should expect that this this report that we get should be accurate and complete I think in this bullet we just talking about the nitrogen though in November we met the limit and had an average of 9.54 idea why the oral States flow went up 25 30% from October to November 747 to milon where do you see that second fluent flow City Flow went up slightly but Oro went from 747 to 1 million not at that time that's a pretty significant increase I don't know the average daily went down from 61,000 to 55,000 well but that's tied to the city flow that's the combination of City yeah what doesn't make sense is if oroo State's flow went up and the City Flow went up why would the average daily flow go down that doesn't make sense to monthly went up makes you wonder if they are misreporting [Music] something you know oroko Estates has been at like a solid 700 to 800,000 per month been just steady think I've even had two months that were like identical so to see that jump is it sticks out to me we should ask them to verify that or one inch to two inches yeah we should I can I can follow up with Dan and verify those numbers and then also asked for the nitrogen on here not nitrogen ammonia would that be beneficial well I think total nitrogen is what's in our permit right yep so it' be nice to see that number on the report okay was on the ch you'll follow up the total nitrogen tart and that flow increase I I just confirm the chemical budget too when you're talking yes okay anything else on Main INSP was half so that's good time not much new on the obviously the sanitary sewer collection system um I guess the only thing new is we've kind of been dealing with the uh air relase manholes and we still have two of the um air relase valve seats to replace uh they were shipped they haven't been installed I assume you haven't heard from I talked with Big Joe sounded like once it warms up Thursday or Friday they were going to tackle it not a huge job couple hours did he happen to mention anything about those trimming of those oak trees over on first place we spoke on Saturday so I don't think that email came about till yesterday so I can bring it up if you see them and think of it I emailed um Luke Luke but I don't know honestly I don't even know if he's working right now I think so through January I think they are yeah he hasn't responded Luke and I we talked last week so yeah he's still working mentioned Jeff was that Jeff Bart I was here okay good yeah Jeff was out yesterday okay all right um it's us store water rates all right SE water [Music] rates let's see the top P that he's handing out that's last year's year to date for what uh where we're at with the budget for the water oh there's a cop there and for some reason in the math it shows a positive number when there two negative numbers that's how math work two negatives make a positive um but for the grand total n effect um so that's a obviously the expenditures are more than the revenues and both that's the difference between the expenditures versus the Reven for each account yep I got the copy here to those numbers look at the revenue rates revenue for August September with the 30,000 I'm assuming that's because some people may not have the irrigation meter in just more water usage yeah yeah we're selling that much more water those those August in September oh I'm sorry I I forget I thought we looking at sewer there so yeah page one of course page one if we just want to start with water yes uh the 600 fund yeah revenues on top expenditures on bottom and so if you take those numbers and look at the first sheet I gave everyone with the green blue and yellow so you'll see water rates 0% so on the bottom you'll see what that means if we kept the rates the same 0% increase right that makes sense Ross we keep a 0% rate increase that's what the numbers will be here so you can look at the revenues and the expenditures from this sheet to this sheet there so those are the revenues so I'm off a little bit on on some of these this this year yep yep 2024 and if we keep the rates the same at 0% increase that's what we're projecting for next year so we're staying 243,000 for revenue and I had it calculated at 274 for Revenue little off there Y and then if you look at your next page here you'll see a 5% increase a 10 15 so really just matching up the revenues and the expenditures that's kind of where we're at Jason you got any comments set that's the zero you have the five I was like so so one thing you don't see on the revenues on on the first page all 12 months listed you don't see Decembers in there so really the the all the revenues are minus one month of December so we got that at $243,000 but there's another it's another $330,000 for water so really my my calculated revenue of if you look at the calculated revenue on this page of 274 bottom right hand number 274,000 for water revenues that's that's a pretty good projection I'd be a little more conservative and pushing towards 20,000 since we're winter months little less water usage so yeah so we did all in this month of December we did 60,000 but split two 30,000 Noe so yeah the as you can see the projected revenue for for next year with the 0% increase is 274,000 so if you go to the the next page that has 5% there's a five 10 and 15 there's a 202 it's right here here's the five Jim all right so when you look at that five you'll see you go from 274,000 to 282,000 and then if you look at your expenditures the next uh table now those are based on the numbers that we have been using in the past those expenditures water expenses would be the bottom take a yep those are expenditures so on the on the left side there utilities 24,000 maintenance 30 those numbers of what we've been using in the Utility Fund so I didn't touch those I just kept those the same so you didn't do any inflation figures I didn't I didn't increase anything I just wanted to show revenues versus expenses yeah what's just curious I don't I don't remember having too many conversations about in the past is this uh is this operating shortfall a new thing this year or has this been a pattern over the last several years I would imagine it's been a shortfall for years and that's one thing that we were going to be working diligently on is tracking this better is tracking this water utility because we we we don't need to treat this like the 100 fund like the the general fund we need to treat this like a Enterprise fund an Enterprise fund right in the past we've been doing three three and a half% increases on the water side just kind of help us closer to the balance of budgets that's why if you look at all of our Auto reports the last two or three years you've always been a deficit PFA wants us to be zero zero all the time just to make sure we're covering our payments so I guess when you when you look at those those different options the 5 10 15 20% right you'll see the higher you increase that that amount the lower or the the smaller the the difference between your expenses and revenues right and so just to ryland's point we want to try to maintain that break even or you know I don't even know if that's the right term there Break Even but balanc balanc right we're not gouging our customers but we're also planning for the future and for emergencies and breakdowns and water meter change outs in 2029 and uh all sorts of that good stuff there's a lot that like you mentioned with the water reader change outs and other things where this fund should eventually start to become self-sufficient where we're taking less in the taxes side of things every year to help cover the cost of these this this Enterprise fund is a will a water sewer they should ultimately their goal is become self-sufficient you know making money to save to be able to provide to cover costs so it doesn't fall back on the city's general fund whener down the road does that make sense and in the case of the water I think you show down in the water Revenue box at the bottom there's a line item of transfers in that's to date we've never taken anything out the general Capital fund and put into the revenue water fund correct sewer is a little bit different but for the water we're just relying on user rates corre usage rates I'm sorry k i you you indicate on here there's 32 connections left uh yes 32 to go for the water 49 for the sewer so is the projection of you know adding 90% of the 32 included in the it's not Joel I I didn't want to throw that in there just because I know that some of those 32 to go are going to be the hold outs sure they're not going to connect unless they're they'll never connect but the reality is they should be charged even if they don't so absolutely so could account for at least a fraction of them pretty high healthy I suppose you could out of the 32 you could say 20 to 25 more so that would take your uh 466 users to 486 490 you know so that that would play into this as well we had 484 users now water 46666 okay 466 got 30 irrigation meters or 25 short right water water connections are how many 32 to go 3 okay okay and then plus there's there's you know there's vacant lots that could be built on too you know there's some of those that I didn't factor in here that's about 6% is it is all in terms of that total so I assume your total revenue would go up somewhere in that 10% yeah do we know where our um total water rates sit in relation to surrounding communities if we're low or high or middle of the road we're I would say compar we are we're we're comparable I really do think so uh Pine Island wanam Mingo plan view they all do their rates a little different some throw in garbage some throw in storm sewer and street sweeping and it's all kind of combined into this big utility bill where ours is a little bit more basic you know the we're paying the sewer per thousand gallons the more water you use the higher your rate is the more you use the more you pay uh but all driven by uh conservation of water you know a lot of our rates are driven to hopefully reduce the amount of water you use it's a newer system it is a newer system yep 13 years 15 years now yep 2009 was the first project and that project will be paid off in 2029 but at that 2029 Mark you know we've got to replace 389 water meters you know so there there's a there's a cost there so does the utility want to have enough money built up to pay for that do we want to charge a percentage of that back to the consumer how do we want to fund some of those purchases right capacity absolutely the more users we get you know if we had 100 more users we' we'd all kind of you know Pay Less in a sense that assumes that all these other costs are fixed is a false assumption correct more users more chemicals more electricity and off more equipment project the additional connections the inflation factor that 6% probably and of offsets the two the two two offset from that perspective so are we on a basically looking at these numbers 25% rate increase in order to get to break even or or balance the that's that's what I see Dylan you don't see a 25% increase you see the 20 there and that the difference is you know 300 3,000 but you know I think the one thing the city has has can improve on is the tracking of these expenses and revenues better in the past I don't think we I think there's room for improvement I'll put it that way and you'll see in there there's not an assigned fund number to a lot of these they've got the handout cane had for you there it starts with a six and then there's a bunch of x's never been set up so something needs to be figured out as to what accounts do we need to create to actually put some of these stuff in but figure start tracking it a little bit better right now it's just going into the fund and being charged from the fund for these expenditures without having to design as to okay what line item should it come out of this would line up with our new accounting system and I take it to yeah we'll be able to we can do that now if we get figure out you know what we want to have for line items and all that other stuff let's just say uh utilities are 10,000 a month or 5,000 a month right we need to plug those projected numbers in in a budget for 2025 right and then now every month utilities come out and we can track that okay it was high it was low it was in the middle right we've never done that we just say this is the price for utilities and we never know until the audit comes out six months after the year ended like I say I think there's room for improvement just on the city Side to better track some of these things oh absolutely do we know what the the uh rate of inflation was or is projected to be for 2024 is it is it three 4% somewhere there three and a half to 4% it's kind of VAR depending on what where you're at the federal government's at three and a half I know from from what I've been looking at the things that I buy my job seems like the Last 5 Years everything's gone up 40% probably in the last years oh absolutely hands down and historically Ryland helped me out here but we've always stayed around that 3 to 4% increase per year and you know the discussion that we have when we're talking about the B Bas raises are um the people that we have the number of people that are own the fixed income retirees and and not being a burden I think now that we we've seen these and we feel great about a 20% or 10 or 15 but you kind of you know I think the 5% is probably I like the 5% but I think we need to kind of look at our sewer rate as well we don't want to have a 20% water and 10% sewer and that's just it's it's needed but we just got to be our County what we really have I guess I think my suggestion the s that Jason and I have had are we need to at least do a 5% increase on Water and Sewer across the board that's that's something we've talked about justum a bare bare minim yeah okay bare minimum I for me personally in the city Side looking at it 10% would be more comfortable on the low end but I understand both sides of it you know with the the cost but i k did you have in that is there the breakdown of what that monthly cost would be at the five or 10% yeah you can you can kind of see it there in the in those pages yeah for 5,000 at 10% you're going from 4338 to 47 you know 14 and and looking at at that you know I don't think that that a 10% that far off from what there is and I almost think you could probably you buy with 10% we're talking 43s 20 is not even bad when you take a look 10% that would be too much for somebody 39 to 36 or 47 to 43 I think if if you for you guys looking at this knowing okay we can 10% this year 10% next year 10% the year like really I think this year of increase we'll see start to see our new Baseline where we're at we'll have the full years of the sewer and water combined together we'll have we'll start to be able to build this Baseline but like I said that's I would feel more comfortable with 10 but yeah five is the bare minimum we need but I think we'd still be end up losing money each year like we're doing and not not growing that help offset the cost because you know we got to realize that we're carrying this over this negative over into this coming year as well starting off with negative money so Kan on this spreadsheet yeah you know you got the the bottom total water bill base plus usage how are these different so like what's the what's the difference between these two columns uh so those are just residential non-residential I I factored everything into residential we've got a few non-residential uh but non-residential kind kind of includes everything a church to the gas station to Dollar General so go down I think you're talking about the total water bill base plus usage for the 5,000 yep from 4338 to 474 on the 10% yep yeah that's what else four a month 48 a year out here 5% goes from 4338 to 4526 this is for 5,000 gallons yeah and it just depends how much you're using but you know typically I between that 3 to 5,000 that's a typical it's pretty much nine months out of the Year probably eight nine months seven somebody that uses three gallons or three 3,000 goes from 4 3642 to 3948 that's three bucks rethinking my comment about 5% it it's not that much the the 10% increase just on the the 5,000 gallons that's but uh $45 a year for the 10% increase for water so that's that's a $20,000 net loss which isn't very much well when you look at that first sheet that has the zero in the green box that's pretty much this year's number right so if you look at that we're only taking in 274,000 our our expenses are staying the same at 312 so it's showing a you know a loss a negative of 38,000 so if we go to that 10% increase we're cutting that in half about yes and like Jason said if we did 10% the following year maybe with some additional connections a little bit of growth now all of a sudden we could be within two years we could be at that break even we'll definitely know where the shortfalls are or the added expenses that we haven't been documented created yeah you're tracking well that number is a lot loss yeah yeah the the one in parentheses is a loss yeah a negative expenses minus Revenue okay let's look at the sewer before we yeah so sewer sewer is exactly the same Jason do you got those okay m well I I've got this one here Ryland do you have those sheets I shared with you over the weekend I do let's let's copies yeah let's take those out we can make some copies Mar that's okay yeah we did not no I figured 10 would be the Hard Sell so uh sewer SE sewer SE we're charging $530 per thousand gallons of sewer plus the eru basee rate of $21 and 22 cents believe it is 21 22 now when the project started uh we said $20 per eru and $5 per th000 gallons that sounds right Joe I think and so now here we are 2025 and we've did we've done slight increases so now we're at that 2122 per eru and $55.30 per th000 gallons so what Jason's going to bring out he's going to bring out something just like the water you're going to see a a 0% increase 5% and a 10% so essentially 2.22 * 1 .1 $23.3 for your eru I'll just stop talking until it gets here I don't need to throw numbers around and since we didn't have a full year of operating the sewer plant I think 2025 is going to be a a good year to collect this data and track these expenses is but right now we've just kind of got a partial year don't really know what the chemicals are going to be don't really you know just things we don't know yet you have any question John what we're talking out here on the water no I'm just trying to [Music] Ryland here's your copy uh Dyan there's copy for you oh us first page is first page is 0% increase so that's pretty much what we did in 20124 two pages first two pages it's really the one sheet that a handed up Ear the water just my off my viewing I down a little bit so yeah page two uh you'll see the sewer revenues and Sewer expenses and these were numbers that we've been using uh kind of some base numbers Joe do any of those numbers stick out to you on the page too volumetric fees base fees oroa state sales uh I've ran the calculation you know uh where we're at and where we would be the expenses those what's the develop development fee so I was going to ask you that Joe Ryland these are like I said these are numbers that were given to us through what's his name Jason Mike bubani yeah these are the I'm assuming these are the the whack and pl investment fees for the sack and plat investment fees for developments or new Hess businesses they could be I just they they go into a separate fund don't they does it all come into I I don't think the sack fees are in here I could be wrong but I don't think they are I don't know what that that's why I was wondering that development Fe of $10,000 just same I don't know what that means I mean me the development fees if that's something big that could be investment fees and my commercial side that could be one commercial development you know chemicals equipment engineering maintenance some of those numbers on the bottom under expenses those those are could be very well high but then again we don't quite know so I want to have a placeholder there and I think that was the intention when this was kind of created by Mike bubani several years ago is have a placeholder for some of those those items and you know the bond principle the bond interest the $75,000 general fund to support salaries you know I didn't touch any of that stuff that is just the only thing I touched was uh payroll items and utilities so I just plugged in the numbers that we had people Services contract the utilities I shot a little high on the utilities but I would rather be on the safe side so what what you see there between the revenues and expenses is the the top three revenues volumetric fees base fees and oroo estate sales those are numbers calculated by an increase so those first two pages are a zero 0% increase the next page you see a 5% increase and then you can see what it does through the 2025 projected right a 5% increase you you know you knocked off 17,000 right a 10% increase you you knocked off you knocked it in half I mean once again when you when you see that bottom number net effect in parentheses that's a shortfall and uh so your expenses you probably saw I wrote in there the transfers in if we did 100,000 again instead of the 76 we'd pick up 25,000 and at the same time our expenses year to year that Bond principal is going to drop year by year too correct and that's not factored in here right but it's going to be small but it will why would the bond principle drop year to year wouldn't it drop I don't think so I think it's amateurz evenly over 30 years yeah it's it's this flat okay I think it's flat yeah and maybe just tiny increments of difference in the interest but and that's listed out here the interest gu the interest should go down over 30 years you know today 114 but that could be 110 105 yeah it you know in Mikel Bonnie's cash value cash flow nowes he had put in 100,000 for like four or five years to supplement that until homes took over additional homes so 100 if you put 120,000 in there for Revenue instead of 7 six we'd be down to 11,000 which is so just so I understand kind of what the goal is here at the end of this are we looking to potentially make a support or make a recommendation to council for a percentage increase I think you know I I'm not a numbers guy so I stare at these a long time and not really get any further than I am right now but you know based on what things kind of gone on and what I've seen in The Last 5 Years I could certainly support a 10% rate increase I I think more than one year of that though I'd really want to see some of this data that we're hoping to collect otherwise it feels a little irresponsible to just keep throwing 10% um without justification so um I think you know the fact that we don't have that information and we've seen what we've seen over the last couple of years 10% doesn't feel great but it seems like a good place to start so if I go back to the let's look at the 10% page yep the total sewer bill on the first page 10% 5,000 gallons would go from 4772 to 5249 correct for 477 per month or 57 per year that's per month right yeah yep yep the 477 that would be an increase per month but you're your annual your yearly expense be $57 more at 5,000 gallons per month well the case of a home own a 10% increase both Water and Sewer would be almost between 8 and9 at 5,000 or 7 to 9,000 depending 7 to $9 I guess increase per month 3,000 to 5,000 sewer water together year we've never talked these big num we've never talked anything more than 3% before you know so I think if we choose 10% recommendation uh we should make sure there's numbers associated with that for 3 and 5,000 to indicate what the real change would be yep yep so be 371 Plus I also argue that those rates are pretty competitive from area communities so in Rochester we get a we participate in a survey that covers I think the whole Midwest um we're a larger City so we're in the large city survey but the the organization that does it also does a small community survey I'm not sure that's a is a nextcom I don't remember I used to see those yeah been a while since I've seen one but um and so that that to me that's usually a good kind of Benchmark you don't really you don't want to be on the low end or the high end in those kind of things right it means you're either falling behind or you you fell behind but I'm also expecting or would expect to see um wastewater treatment costs be higher than water delivery costs um but I don't work too much on the water side so I don't know that but seems like wastewater treatment cost more yeah there's more more involved yeah yeah and so um I think these are actually pretty comparable right base rates are about 20 bucks and um unit charges are in the same ballart too not not the same but multipl different these are just residential yeah everything's based on residential just just across the board to simplify things so yeah the commercial properties do pay a touch more but we're just basing it all off of if everyone was residential so that'll factor in a a touch higher when we plug in those commercial raides I'm just looking cu had both on here residential non-residential asking looking at this right correct wrong looks like the water and the sewer both of them go up $36 no 10% [Music] [Music] 37777 4 equal that's what I had yeah7 soing yeah I'm doing so a 5% increase on Water and Sewer $84 a year increase 84 two if we did a 10% across the board Water and Sewer 7 X plus 14 equals 104 that's all right Jim you got I done I would expect it to be 160 allart 5% versus 10% if a 5% increase is 80 bucks a year a 10% would be 60 nope 84 or 104 5 and 10 respectively so the 84 is it is that 3,000 gallons that's a total change in total change total increase per customer per customer yeah so yeah if we did a 5% Water and Sewer increase in it's $84 more 10% $104 more so if you average those two out oh 90 95 bucks 96 bucks I mean eight bucks per month per user and at the 10 what's the 37 that's the loss yep and what's the 18 H parth that might just be some of ryland's notes up here if we changed out any of those numbers those two numbers three to 5,000 I would say a majority of the folks are all between 3 and 5,000 Gall I'd say 90 I've been tracking them for the last four or five years yeah I've got cheats at home I've got here the latest reads there's some big users too even December absolutely couple people 20,000 20,000 I water ice making ice yeah ice backyard how thick is your ice so for the for the current month everyone someone got a calculator we we metered through all 466 MERS 2,732 th000 how many 4 466 just under 6, 5862 so but you know you got you got a couple big ones in here you know the restaurants they're at 50,000 a piece right so throw those two out and then throw out a couple that are at zero right so is that what the restaurant is at that two sisters they're at about 50 we should really look at that yeah we do need to adjust their eru eventually but yeah I made a note to that's not too far off of what we're I think two sisters you look at that it's like 5,862 as an average per user 2,7 32,000 and you have 466 users so 5,862 gallons per average right 5000 how you get my wife don't as much question toilet as often as you do if you want what's 10% going to do like two sister right that's what this number is 5,000 what can increase with two sisters have 10% at their usage well they so I think 5,000 is a good average yeah that means half the people in town are using more half 5,862 maybe the technical term I think would be the median user yeah you know you can you throw whatever fancy statistic words [Music] and I you know regarding water conservation I I think uh you might see more folks installing second meters especially right because that'll cut your water bill in half or your your sewer buil um or more for those folks that are still only using a single meter and have an irrigation system so is a good thing e what do you think Ross I get paid pain it's going to cost us more but then you all everything has got low up I think this this year 2025 this will be a good year this will be an eye opening experience for the city right the more we can track our utility expenses you know right now the general fund is paying for repair and maintenance Vehicles gas in the trucks uh a lot of that stuff isn't getting divided or assigned to the utilities right one could say that 20 to 30 to 40 50% of our Public Works time would be utilities so those utilities should pay half of the car insurance half of the the wear and tear the gas the oil the you name it even our salaries and wages the more we can track what were the true cost of operating this utility both utilities we're just being clear arent with our customers and I don't think 10% is that bad for Resident like myself I don't think it's nothing but I agree I don't think we should throw 10% on 2026 27 another 10% just keep jacking it up you take a look and see where it is after yeah the next year yeah I think 10% is realistic really honestly motion Ryland or you still figure no I think I think it's I'm just the three to four dollars per month I think is pretty average figure from three to 5,000 so you want make I think the 10% I the only concern I have is is when we have a public hearing on this we'll have to when we talk about it we have to make sure we talk about it in the dollar a combination of dollars and sense and correct and what you're doing with the accounting too so yeah go ahead so I make a motion we recommend to council a 10% rate increase on both the water and sewer rates for 2025 I'll second it John okay thank you comments appreciate Kane putting all these figures together on what we need to do going forward and we got the vehicle the wherewithal to do it so I think it's he good and I think it's just a matter of part of our conversation to council is that we've been we haven't been meeting our really obligations to have a balanced budget some audit and also BFA and we need to make sure we're continuing to show a good faith effort and I think this would be an increase that a mark increase those changes so any other comments see n um one more comment discussion and it's not really related to the motion but I just want to make sure that we at some point we need to talk about what we're going to bring over from the CIP to the revenue side the balance from the general fund I don't know if that requires another motion activity or somewhere we need to so Ryland to for a little history for everyone John maybe so CIP is going to help offset the cost of the sewer Utility Fund right so we're going to take CIP money in kind of the savings for the city take some of that out every year for the next two to five years and help bring in income to offset the how do I explain this it just helps us get closer to having a balance budget balance sewer budget helps cover the seing and this is what we'll find out this year is what we really do need to transfer going forward as we know we got more homes coming online so the more homes come online the less and less that supportive dollars from the general fund we needed it's a crutch but those cash analysis was a very conservative approach to everything and U of course we did those three four years ago five years ago was the expectation that the utility would end up paying the general fund back no we rationalized it from the fact that we reconstructed about four miles Street with the oh yeah project Which is far in excess of the cost that would ultimately be paid for CP we had you know we purposely targeted some of the worst streets in town to make sure we put down any other comments so it's it's really a transfer from CIP to the SE utility reconstruction because the utility is really they pay for all those people uity so there no other comments all those in favor signify by saying iOS that's approved um next item on the agenda was um to failure to secure SE sewer water connection permits we talked about staff development process and there an update on that or just process we're in process but it is being hopefully discussed sometime in the near future it is it is when when people fail to get their permits it's it's been quiet as far as the permits for water and sewer go for the last month here so we're we've got time but it is on our radar uh next item Kane I believe you have an update from in control yes I do came in today I guess Dylan you recall the meeting we had with uh Kurt and uh Graham y so Dylan had a few uh additional questions and we had a phone call conversation with in control Dylan and I well mostly Dylan he's an expert in this field we are very lucky to have him so uh don't get any ideas no this this is Dylan's world you guys and I think uh it was good to have him very good to have him on this so to get everyone up to speed this is for cyber security uh requirement of the Minnesota Department of Health and our current control integrator in control this is what they've put together for us there's kind of two proposals well one firewall installation for remote access and another proposal for cyber security service plan for our water system that's what brought all this about is the cyber security requirement from the Minnesota Department of Health for the water system this is just the water system Dylan would you like to add anything I kind of U my only so my main the thing I wanted to get across to these folks was if if Council decides to pursue either either one of these two um especially the the firewall installation there are recurring and ongoing costs that are associated with that you know you you buy the thing but you pay licensing costs every year forever as long as you own the thing um and that allows you to access to security updates and and software and those kind of things um and so I wanted to make sure that the proposal was clear that if you're going to spend um $6,196 on this thing that you'll end up paying another $1,000 next year and $1,000 after that $1,000 after that um and so I wanted to make sure that that was clear in the proposals um the other thing I'll I'll mention yes there are requirements on cyber security there's no to my knowledge there are no enforcement so um everybody should be thinking about cyber security um but nobody's going to come in and B you for not having done the things that they recommend you do um they're going to really you know if we have an audit or a inspection and somebody says well how are you doing this and you know it's it's a vulnerability they'll say that's that's not good you should change that but there's there's no real enforcement mechanism for this stuff and so um I don't I don't want anybody to think that it's necessary for this cyber security service plan something we have to pay for because these other things are things we have to do or somebody's going to Mark Us in violation of something that said I I just this last couple weeks foreign governments are actively working on Stu that targets infrastructure utilities and so um you know even if we decide not to not to support the cyber security plan the things like multiactor authentication for remote connections changing passwords all that stuff is are things those are things that we should be requiring people service to do that we should be doing ourselves because it's there's two main victims to this stuff one is small utilities who don't have the capability to really or experience to to keep themselves relatively secure and the other ones are large utilities that are actively being targeted and so um I think something we should be aware of regardless of spending your money so on page four of this cyber security you got $488 annualized cost they have a breakdown of floor payments over the year for payments that includes the annual Securities software cost oh it includes it that's part of the $4,800 okay and I don't is that I don't see that line item it right the table oh 13.99 okay so it even if so if the city moves forward with the firewall installation that $1300 is incumbent basically every year forever um with a fireball yeah even if you choose not to go forward with the cyber security plan but it doesn't say that in the firewall does it it does not so if that ends up in front of council I think that would be a very that's something that should be explicitly clear seems like that's a it' be nice to have that a proposal yeah yeah I was kind of hoping it would be but they're their business model they want people to subscribe to this service plan through them that includes those other services cyber security yeah and so that's why they put it they package it up in there if you choose not to go with that they will still handle the renewals and everything like that they just their preference is for folks to subscribe to that service point this was an issue we talked about early on about they didn't you look at this on the firewall they didn't include that software cost that was a concern that we had that I'm going for memory which is weak but anyway the same I thought this annual security software cost was was a concern that we wanted it on this quote for the firewall that's correct yes and the only reason I say that is if it's from an auditor standpoint if we're paying this $6,100 but the there's another $1,300 Bill we say course's the invoice for that um that won't $1300 will be year two it won't be okay it won't be upfront but'll be a separate invoice firewall installation um the reason I said Auditors will come in and they'll just pick something and say okay where's the invoices for this or the pay St you know that's part of their check and balance and so maybe it's not that big a deal I yes Jason or auditor can tell her Kane how important it is to have that invoice for 13 $1,399 in addition to the 6166 I don't I don't think that would be in addition to in that first year um that that first year 6166 would include the hardware the the first year of support and software and installation all these all these scope items here so you wouldn't see the invoice for the 13 66 until year two and that would be for a renewal okay okay so 61 is just his first year only yes and then it falls to 13.99 if we don't or software renewal yeah that's just like the software licensing basically or we can go with the cyber security it's it's 4808 a every year and for that extra $4,000 whatever it is they they come out and they do some basic control panel maintenance they take backups um they store those backups offsite which is those are valuable services I don't this is the Cyber is cyber security is really so which one was recommended by the Department of Health cyber security or the firewall installation they kind of play into each other yeah the firewall is is our system remotely accessible right now no no so in order to add the remote the ability to access it remotely you need the firewall to do be able to do that SEC yeah we don't have that remote access right now so if we did we could benefit from their service from the standpoint they don't have to be on site they could so we're going from like the 20th century to the 21st century as far as technology goes remote access and then the ability to I don't even know I mean I don't know what what access they typically do or what what functions they perform when they're on site but um we only have them on site unless there's a problem put it that way and so would we benefit would the city benefit from being able to have remote access absolutely absolutely we could have live feed you know hey what's our well doing could we ramp up or slow down or turn something on turn something off remotely there's a benefit to it I can see the benefit their remote access would allow them to they could make changes make changes or software updates software updates and then they'd be able to Dylan correct me if I'm wrong but they could implement the uh twostep authentication you know signing in right right now if somebody got into our wellhouse they could turn the well on they could turn it off they could right there's it's not password encrypted it's not that probably would not I mean if if someone has physical access to the the system then really there's two Factor authentication is not going to stop that that's something that would have to be configured at the wellhouse right so somebody if somebody pops the door open and starts pushing the off button but I I thought Dylan they were able to like set up that and and allow us to do that where you'd actually have to type in a password that should be a feature of this thing already and it might not be because it's not networked correct but it very it should be if it's going to be Network and so that's that's kind of what's driving the cyber security one part of it right security you have a fence around your water tower not everyone can climb your water tower right there's padlocks and Gates and there's security cyber security is just exactly that on the the the control side of things right like the physical access part I mean if somebody's going to mess up your wellhouse if they can't do it by pushing the off button on the screen they'll they'll figure out a way I mean if they're they're physically in it they'll break something turn off Breakers yes so that that's a little bit a different animal but it's really it's really the remote access part that's the the firewall and the multifactor authentication would be Dylan what's your gut feeling on this um you're the expert I gotta lean on you what you I want you to if it's not networked it's not a security risk if it is networked it becomes a security risk that you have to manage I can see that I can see that y so it kind of comes down to once the network yes yeah it's all about how much how much capability you gain from that ability to remote access and if it's marginal I wouldn't do it you got your safy right now yeah so we could we could kick the can it's not kicking the can it's see already got a set up right now the most secure systems in the world are not networked yeah there you go so it could be a better thing it is a big barrier to usability and and functionality but it's it's and then yeah if you make that connection you really do need somebody with some expertise and experience to help you manage it securely and respond possibly and that's what they would be offering so because right now Dyan L and not to pick on Rochester's utilities but there's obviously people on staff that manage this um so so at the Wastewater Plant it's it's me and one other guy uh and and that's you know unless you're a security expert um you can't keep up with it um the city of Rochester it department has struggled to keep security their security manager position filled uh I think the electric and water utility I think they're they're a little more fortunate that they have stricter guidelines because they're on the electric utility side and they they do have more enforcement and Regulatory boundaries but and that could be coming down the pike right I mean more more oversight from Department of Health or more rules more things that utilities need to have and right now be bones we need the Dylan would you say the cyber security or would you say neither I would say unless unless we would benefit directly and significantly access that we don't need it now the the Wastewater Plant I think has remote access right I think xylm and other folks can connect to it there is remote access for that yes yeah so I would I would say that then that's a situation that needs more attention either either to properly secure that if it's not or disconnected got I guess my thoughts are I I I I agree with your comments about we as a small City have the two Wells and we see them every day and um whereas the cyber security they have a five-year warranty on it I didn't see any warranty on the in controls unless you know cyber or the remote the fireball there any warranty on that I didn't see it it's like any electronic industrial stuff usually have you know a year but so the cyber security service plan the 5-year warranty we'll do annual reviews review your system see what you need I just see dollar signs dollar signs and dollar signs and so so everyone i' I've put together this information because the Department of Health has required the public works the public water supply to do so so I have done my job I have I done the assessment within control and now this is what comes from the assessment this is what they're recommending and this is our controls contractor so we're not going to be shopping for controls contractors like shoes right no I'm not saying that I I know we're not saying that but we are tied to the hip with these folks so uh like I said I've prepared everything dyan's been great help and it's all in front of you so if it's this Rec it's Council recommendation not to that's fine is this the type of decision that you know if we start out with firewall five years from now we go to this is that possible I mean this is going to change every year probably I imagine in two years time it's you're not going to have an option it's going to be here it is take it or leave it or so this expense would fall into our expense Water and Sewer split up between the two or just water I guess just water so that'd be like a subcontracted services but I think what Dylan is saying is that when you look at how the health is looking at it they're saying that every city is hooked up and they've got this so you need to have the security that there is to go along with it with the fire wall to go along not having it that way is an exception to a small city has a security the security is there right now because nobody can get in to hack the system because we don't have a system you know so we're safer right now not having that but overall they would say most larger cities are all connected which would make sense so I think lar cities there's a lot of small cities that put their stuff on the internet so that guys you know because they're they got short staff they're they're spread thin a guy can be across town or at home or in on vacation and you know make a chemical adjustment well you know that that's great but you know if you don't have the right security measures in place then anybody can make that chemical adjustment no system is pretty safe I I agree with what you're saying right now the way we have it is safer than in hooked [Music] up I I think I would I would maybe recommend we table it until um Public Works says that there's real value in in having remote access capability and then you just saw today so think it's an urgent thing I think if the Department of Health wasn't mandating this I think I'd have I I'd have this remote access on all my devices right there was no need for the cyber security right we'd have remote access right if it's a one-time kind of deal for remote access I stop good conversation let's table it to next month time everybody to think about it and come back and we'll talk about it in February Mar February thanks Dylan thank welcome um theer Woodlands being updated oh the left station more to come there Island working on uh some complete lift station panel generator switch gear more to come okay next item was our initial discussion phase 1B sewer water improvements um Joe did don't follow follow up with EFA about using funds that we have left towards initial design feasibility studies whatever and we got a no but they challenged them a little bit like s a note back and I haven't heard back from yeah I talked to Cory today you said it's probably going to be a know again but um I think it's worth a try we'll see what happens to have a a zoom meeting or no to well to get some input and I asked him some other question okay yeah so um we'll see if anybody else in the food chain wants to comment on that I think uh there's a fa amount of change at PCA and PFA in terms of people retiring I think Bill dun's retiring and Jeff Freeman's retiring and a number of people AR changing there but I'm not sure that'll necessarily impact the result but I asked some other questions about how they'd maybe look at scoring the project and if our existing PPL score would we could use that or if we had to go through a scoring process again he's going to look into it when you did your assessment back in 23r orle assessment survey the 20133 for the number of community assessment yeah community did you look at those no sewer systems all we just looked at the downtown 11 or 13 Parcels something like that and literally down here we included West Center first first street because it we we did actually look at no we didn't we made the Assumption yeah we said you know same age same vintage same density the findings here probably apply there and there and um you know okay so I would hope by March or April we could have some idea how we're going to apprach one be I think so I hope so we'll see what Cory comes back at that's the first step I'm glad we asked yes me too I'm glad we asked long as it CHS the conversation go that's not anything so yeah okay um next item was U the bylaws well we looked at the length of services um and I know we want to so late this afternoon I took the parks and trails bylaws and put together a draft emphasiz draft in big capital letters event use the parks and trails byog and kind of major topics there could be some other bylaws but it's meant to be simple but something we have not done in the past and Jason is requesting this for all the Committees SE Parks pnz PNC has some of the bylaws um it's up for discussion review come back in February but trying to identify purp is at a very high level seven members threeyear term one additional term find the officers I think we just need a president vice president vice chair I said yeah vice vice president could be would be the secretary chair would be responsible for agendas consisted of sure this Jason till right now so there's where the meetings would be alternative Place probably have another version next February but just kind of give that a thought as a starting point and uh maybe by February or March we can have something in place so open for suggestions share them with me by email bring them back to the February meeting you can I guess if you can share with me before a week before the February meeting and we could incorporate those into summary of comments just you know like our current situation we've got two open positions and one two three of us who've been on the committee longer than six years and so you know you wouldn't now I'm not trying to you know have some kind of Empire but you'd hate to remove all three of us and not have a committee well because our terms are up not only that but the knowledge and the stuff that been loses by that I I think that I don't like the idea of only one threee term I mean that's six years if you stayed here for 20 years would' be blessing well because of your knowledge knowledge is a is a concern um getting citizens involved is a good wish too as well but that's just if you find somebody wants my position I'll step down nine years you so yeah yeah if we you know obviously yeah if all the positions were full and we had people waiting to I think that would be a responsible thing to do do you see that on other committees I mean other committees have open positions or we just we've got a we've got a few open positions across the city I got to get stuff posted trying to gather from everybody before we make you know instead of making five different postings for I've been trying to gather everybody's but you know with that as this comes into cities their term lengths will vary from three to five years and then whether or not you sit for multiple or not um you know it's all dependent like you said maybe you got people that are waiting to know apply as well and then you get into that selection process and there's a lot of different things suggest is we end up with a list of people that want to get on it we shouldn't restrict the terms opinion if you got people you know you don't want to or allow allow Council to make an or a you know yeah extended term you don't want to create a dictatorship by having one or two people there for well four or five people there forever if you got people that want to come on then you know right you want to get rid of some of the old blood but it's true I know that follow up on Jason what he's think what they're looking at we're going to be because we have two openings here two openings on pnz I think parks and trails has got one or two yeah so I think we're going to very shortly put out a plea if you will or a request to the residents saying we have these openings um here's an application to fill out with your experiences wishes desire why that type of thing and start a process where we can have a pool to draw from and at the same time anybody that does come on the committee typically we go to council recommending their acceptance of it we did that recently with parks and trails Jeff U Magnuson pronounce his name right he's on the parch and Trail so that was approved so I just like PNC they come forward and approve so so it's we've been tier two hours so let's continue the discussion um and know to I think what I may want to do is just just start know having a blank of n of seven spaces and just start assigning people to stagger those seven-year people three years or six years that type of thing just kind of that's the last thing you want everybody be terminated at the same dat right we need staggered and I think that's what they do in pnz too so I would recommend if I can't remember how e has written but I see a lot of committees when you have them in it's um you know in the bylaws it says these two seats are up on even years these two seats are up on odd years that way you're not like putting an exact year but it's no okay if it's 20 26 we know we're going to have two seeds up and then you know in 5 years 31 like there's that kind of that rotation um and we can kind of look at that more find examples brain's a little fried but I was weing the Eda between 4 and 5:30 when I was doing this I didn't take time to look at the but that's a good example yeah Rebeca put together some really good stuff there I part of it but I know I've seen it in other committees and other cities I've been part of for these they put it by odd even years you know seat one is up on the even year two is even C3 is and OD C so look at the February meeting that's on February 11th and um Joe you're gone from the 9th be back on the 17th uh Monday I think we're through the 17th but I can't remember I have the nth or 17th written down as being gone um so the reason for my my wife is having knee surgery on the 11th so ground for that so it suggested the tent but you're going to be gone i' like to have you here well just looking at the sixth that's a gold rush meeting but I I can talk to Melissa see if they can have it downstairs and they around the table with the six work for everybody we can all be the treatment facility too we can meet out there too if you want oh yes let let's do that let's meet out at the six at the administration building February 6th February 6th at 6:30 is that a PN meeting that's done I'm sorry DNZ meeting that's the first Thursday or that's that's a siring committee meeting no that would be pnz normally it's the 13th the 2D Thursday is it second Thursday oh then if that's the case then go ahead and do it that way you know if I miss but at least you get nol be February 6 6:30 at the administration conference room okay good make a motion meeting adjourn I sh is there anything else we B on second all in favor second by saying I I adjourned 8:30 I saw this in your email in regards to the people that need to get connected