Good evening. That's better. Uh, welcome to Ovito City Council Chambers. If everyone could please rise for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. >> Please join me in a moment of silence. I would like to call our meeting to order. It is March 2nd at approximately 6:30 and we have all members of council present. So we're going to start off with our ceremonial items and presentations starting with flood
awareness week. All right, we've got a proclamation. Whereas the city of Bvidito has experienced severe weather in the past in the form of extreme w rainfall or tropical system events resulting in the flooding in riverine areas and this flooding has caused damage and flood losses to homes and
buildings in all areas whether they are high- risk special flood hazard areas or low to moderate risk flood zones. And whereas the city of Bovidito is a voluntary participant in the national flood insurance program that pres pro provides residents with the opportunity to protect themselves against flood loss
through the purchase of flood insurance at reduced insurance premium rates as well as setting higher regulatory standards to reduce the flood risk and potential flood damage to their property. And whereas the reduction of loss uh reduction of loss of life and
property damage can be achieved when appropriate flood preparedness, control and mitigation measures are taken before a flood. And whereas public education and awareness of potential weather hazards and methods of protection are critical to the health, safety, and
welfare of residents, the Florida Flood Plane Managers Association have declared the week of March 3rd through 9th, 2026 as Flood Awareness Week to promote awareness and increase knowledge of flood risk, the availability of flood
insurance, flood protection methods, and how to prepare for emergencies. Now I therefore Megan Slater by the virtue of authority vested in me as mayor of Ovidito declare this flood awareness week. So let's hop up here and pass this
off to somebody in public works. >> Are you the guy? >> All right. So, if you could just share with us a little bit about the role that Twin Rivers plays in reducing our flood insurance premiums because I know that it does. >> Or is it so who's who's the best course
or Yeah, because because of Twin Rivers golf course, we pay everybody pays lower flood insurance rates, right? >> Well, yeah, because the golf course most of the golf course abuts one of the rivers and the rivers are the primary source of flooding in the city of Ovito.
So, as you remember from Hurricane Ian, most of the substantial flooding took place um really along the golf course and along Twin Rivers. So, by purchasing the golf course and then protecting it in perpetuity, it definitely reduces our risk. >> All right.
>> So, It it was rolling off the dasis. >> All right. And next up, I'd like to invite Deputy Chief Foley to tell an amazing bit of of police department lore that um has saved somebody's life. We've
got a lot of great officers and one in particular to acknowledge tonight. >> Thank you. >> I'll try. >> Yes. >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh, I'm Deputy Chief Brrian Foley of the Ovito Police Department and as I have
respectfully requested, the mayor, members of council, and also if the city manager will please join us on stage or in front of the podium with uh, Chief Dale Coleman, please. >> Thank you. Okay.
The award of commenation criteria is specifically defined as follows. Ovito Police Department awards of commenation are conferred for operational excellence and non-rine conduct in particular assignments. In most cases, the action
should reflect the criteria of a nominee carrying out lifesaving efforts. On December 28th, 2025, officers responded to a tragic and critical incident involving a 15-month-old child who had suffered a drowning for an unknown
period of time. Officer Brangel was the first to arrive on scene. Upon entering the residence, he encountered the child in critical medical condition and family members understandably overwhelmed with distress. In that moment of urgency and emotion,
officer Brangel acted without hesitation. He immediately initiated life-saving measures including cardoppulmonary cardopulmonary resuscitation, airway management, and emergency stimulation techniques. His swift and decisive
actions resulted in the child showing signs of life prior to the fire department assuming advanced medical care. Two days later, on December 30th, 2025, the hospital reported the child was breathing independently and was
expected to survive. Throughout this chaotic and emotionally charged situation, Officer Brangel remained calm, focused, and professional. His composure under pressure, decisive response, and commitment to preserving life exemplify
the highest standards of public service. Officer Brangel's actions made a critical difference in the outcome of this incident. He is most deserving of recognition and commendation for his exemplary life-saving efforts and unwavering dedication to our community.
Therefore, based on the award criteria and Officer Matthew Brangel's actions, please join me in congratulating Officer Brangel as he receives a life-saving award. HEAT. HEAT. Everybody squeeze it a little bit.
officers. >> Yes. Police department. Everybody from the police department, come on up and then we're going to take up as much space as you can. Anybody under? >> I don't serious. >> Is it okay if I shut this one?
All right, please feel free to do a family photo. So, would you like to get in the picture >> with all the officers? Police department can stay up there. >> Chief stay chief stay. We're doing a
family photo real quick. >> My officers everybody in >> fevers. >> This is the family one not for social. I promise. I'm going to take a couple and one for Instagram.
>> There we go. Two for There we go. >> Walk off with your phone. Do you want >> Yeah, we get for hooping. This was your idea, right? It's on you. >> Yeah. >> The singing starts 19 minutes. You trying to get out of here for for
jazz hands 19? I was like that's tight. >> Thank you, chief. Nice. >> Okay, y'all ready? >> All right, moving along. We are up to item number three, which is the approval of the minutes for January 26th. Um, I
believe we have a quick fix here. Go ahead. >> Uh, I move to approve the minutes as they have been amended and put in front of us. >> We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> Second. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. >> All those against. The motion carries.
We'll move on to the public comment section. I do not have any written requests to speak. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to address council at this time? Hearing none, I will close public comment and we will move on to the consent agenda. And I would like to pull
off item number seven and make it item number 10. So the remaining consent agenda would be items five and six. What is the pleasure of council? >> I move we approve items five and six on the consent agenda. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
>> I will ask the clerk to call a role. I >> I >> the motion carries. We do not have any public hearings or first reading of ordinances. So we will move on to item number 10. Previously item number seven, resolution number 4705-26,
the partnership agreement with Ovito Memorial Post 243. Mr. Cobb. >> Uh thank you, Deputy Mayor. This is a uh partnership agreement with Ovito Postum number 243, the American Legion. Uh it the partnership agreement defines the
various roles that uh the city and the American Legion will perform uh regarding uh the uh memorial day uh veterans day uh ree across America that the part of it that is performed at the
Veterans Tribute uh processing of Veterans Tribute uh wall applications as well as providing guidance uh for the display and handling of responsibilities um as for there us help them helping us as far as the display of the American
flag and the state of Florida flag. I wanted to point out to you that uh on the on the table tonight uh we have a small revision to number four uh under the um
the American Legions duties and uh what that that does is to make clarification that what they the assistance that they are providing uh regarding the Reese across America it's basically the change says that it's going to be it's related
to the portion of RES across America that is held at the Veterans Tribute. Uh the city uh helps will be providing logistical support within the the various uh the various events, but then also the city is agreeing to pay for the
fees regarding certain development applications that's provided on page three. There are few of them that we cannot say what they are right now just because we've got to have the project and have to be able to determine the valuation of the project as as well as
the recordings based on the number of pages. So, uh, that's that's all based there. And but that and with that, Deputy Mayor, what we would recommend is that the city council approved the agreement, uh, as is presented on the
table tonight with the minor revision to uh, section three, number four. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Cob. What is the pleasure of council? >> I move we adopt resolution 4705-26 as amended. >> Second. >> Okay. Any discussion? The American
Legion has picked up a lot of slack in the last I would say five possibly six years and I think it has been a a great asset to the city. The changes they have brought to our veterans um our veterans events because they are a lot more in my
opinion and in the pins opinion of the veterans I've talked to a lot more veteran centric and designed to honor people in the way that they want to be honored. So, I'm grateful for their continued partnership and I think it's a a good good move for us to to team up. Okay. Council member Bford. >> No, I think it's a good thing. So, I'm
uh I'm happy to see that we're doing this. >> I'm good. Thank you. Uh nothing further. I think this is great. >> Okay. And I will I just want to thank staff a lot for working with the Legion. Um I know we asked for this a couple months ago, so I'm really excited to see this move forward and thank you for my
my little fix there too as well, too. So, uh I will ask the clerk to call the vote. Motioner, Mayor Megan Slidic, I. >> Seconder, Council Member Jeff Bterford. >> I, >> Deputy Mayor Natalie Tukurt. >> I, >> Council Member Keith Britain.
>> I, >> Council Member Alanaut. >> I. >> The motion carries. We will move on to our discussion item section, item number 11, the storm water update. Mr. Cobb. >> Uh, thank you, Deputy Mayor. Actually, Mr. uh, Yerane is going to give the
staff presentation. >> Okay. All right. Well, good evening everyone. So, as you remember or as you recall, back in February of 2025, city council adopted um the resolution which basically
approved storm water rates for the next 10 years and as part of that approved a CIP, a capital improvement plan for storm water projects. And then in May of 2025, city council approved the Florida utility revenue note, which basically
brought about $9.5 million for stormwater projects. And then immediately after that, we issued an RFQ for storm water and continuing engineering services, and we brought on five firms to exclusively work on stormwater projects. So, with that, what
I wanted to do tonight was give you an overview of what projects we've constructed, what projects were currently in study, and which projects were currently in design. >> Can people on on the internet hear like I don't know if we can turn our mics up or like you're already kind of close,
but it's just not sounding super loud. I want to make sure on YouTube we're good. >> She's going to bring a new mic. >> Okay, cool. >> Are we good? >> Oh, that's >> Oh, that Yeah, that got louder. I just want to make sure everybody can hear because this is really important. People want to know what it is we're doing as a
result of having the higher rates collected and it's a lot. >> Just hold it up like it's open mic night or something. >> I think it's got to turn on. >> Hold it on. >> Are we on? Okay. >> All right.
So, as part of the the CIP, as you remember, we we had a map that showed all the various projects um throughout the city. Um and then we also had a table which identified all these projects. Now, I'm not going to go through that list, but I just want to remind us of what what we saw or what we
had. So, what I thought we'd start with are construction projects. So, um we have about five projects that we have recently completed construction. The first of which is the Lake Charm ditch retrofit project which as you recall
this was a pretty nasty ditch, very steep slopes. That project is complete. A pipe was um installed in in place of the of the swale that was there and contractor did a really nice job with that. Second project, Twin Rivers golf
course. Uh Twin Rivers has a number of corrugated metal pipes. This one failed. The the golf cart path was had failed. So, we had a contractor go in, replace that pipe, and did a wonderful job in in making that uh making that look really good.
The third project um is Town and Country Road, which had an undermined cover. Um during Hurricane Ian, there was a fair amount of scour that that that took place and and some other storms. Um we also found out that the pipes are undersized. So, as part of trying to
beef up our resiliency, um this project was rec recently completed. Um we put in larger culverts and now there's a a really good amount of scour protection both upstream and downstream. Next project is Ovito Oaks. This one was
a very challenging project. Uh this had a corrugated metal pipe that existed between two homes. That pipe failed. Um, our operations crew went in, put a pump in, tried to tried to salvage what we could, but essentially we had to replace that pipe. This was a planned project.
Unfortunately, it happened a lot faster than than we had originally thought. But, um, this project is complete. Uh, we replaced the pipe, brand new pipe all the way to the creeks. Got a good amount of erosion protection, new inlets and and so forth. So, again, contractor did
a really good job with this project. Um, next project is Live Oak Reserve Boulevard. This was another pipe failure. Common theme here. Uh, this project, uh, there were a number of, um, joints that had failed, and so the
contractor went in, regrouted all those joints, and repaired the road. And this is not exactly easy to see, but on the right is the finished pipe. On the left is a sample of what the pipe looks like when it's failing. There's a lot of uh
um debris that gets into the pipe. And the last project that was constructed is Alfa Wood Squin Circle. This was a 15-in C uh reinforced concrete pipe that failed. So, we had to remove the pipe and then reinstall. So, those are the
projects that are are complete. So, in terms of studies, uh there's a there's a number here. I'm not going to hit every one, but I'm going to highlight a few. Alfa Woods ditch. This is a project that's immediately upstream of McKinnon. This project or this
particular ditch has a fair amount of erosion that's taken place. So, one of the first things we're going to do is we're doing a preliminary engineering report to come up with some solutions to harden that ditch. Next one is Mission Road. This is an
older part of the city up in the northwest part of the city. Um, this area suffers from a number of things, but probably the biggest thing is lack of conveyance. Most of these roads don't really have a defined conveyance system. So, water just kind of eventually makes
its way down to the ditch that runs along Mission Road. So, we're going to study that area again and come up with some solutions to to remedy that. Next one is Lake Jessup Avenue, Clark Road. If you recall, basically during
any heavy storm, Lake Jessup gets shut down because it floods because the wetland that you can see in the center of the picture there doesn't have enough capacity. So the idea here is we're going to try to find a way to have a positive outflow. So
that road will no longer flood. So that again is a study as as a phase one part of the project. I'm going to skip this one. Uh Terrace Drive ditch. This is one that has been a challenge for the city for quite some time. There's a ditch that runs behind
many of the homes in this subdivision. It's very difficult to maintain. So, we're doing a study to come up with a couple of different ways that we can capture that flow and convey it in a positive way. Um, these residents have been suffering for some time with just
some challenges with with maintaining that ditch. The last one, hey, a real basin study. So, the Little Econ River Basin, uh, this includes all of Alfa Woods, but this is our first official basin study.
Um, just getting started, but we're looking forward to to really understanding the challenges within the basin and being able to identify level of service and come up with some remedies to resolve those issues. So, in terms of projects that are in
design, first one is Boston Hill Park. Uh this has a number of challenges. The biggest challenge is that as it abuts Whispering Woods, there is no outfall. So during storms, parts of Whispering Woods tend
to get flooded because of the fact that there's a low point here and there's no outfall. Uh another project here is in Alfa Woods. This is near the Sugarberry Pond, which we repaired as part of the post hurricane Ian work. This ditch has a lot
of erosion. So, we have a project here to to make that more resilient. This is probably the next project that we'll construct. Probably go out to bid here in the next couple of months. Another project, Panther Street and Carissa Lane. This was damaged during
Hurricane Milton. Uh, this one should be ready to bid probably in the next two, three months. So, we'll get that one under construction. Um this is a smaller project off of um Mitchell Hammock at Lake Rogers. The the
weir on this pond failed. So this is a project to just repair that. Um this one also should be out to bid here in the next couple of months. And one of the last projects I just want to highlight Alfa Woods. This is the large pond near the park there. This
pond was originally designed as a dry pond. It's wet. So, this is a project to officially convert it from a dry pond to wet pond. Um, and then redesign the outflow for that. The other challenge with this project is there's a sanitary
sewer. You can kind of make out a little island there. There's a sanitary sewer that runs in the island. The goal here is to also move that sanitary sewer out of the pond. So, that would be the the idea there. And last last project here is at Windy Pine on the downstream side. There's
another erosion issue. So this project would just be to to make that more resilient and resolve that erosion issue. So I think sorry. So with that those are it's a quick overview of projects. We have a lot of projects. I didn't cover
them all but I'll be happy to answer any questions that you may have. >> I just want to say you guys have been really busy. Uh, it's easy to show on a slideshow, but that's a lot of work. Uh, the one going across, I think it squint that pipe. They dug it all out and then it rained and got flooded and sunk it out and then they had to redo it like
three times, but they did a really good job watching driving through there. So, um, hats off to your team doing all that. >> Thank you. Appreciate that. >> I just got a a question. Maybe you can give us an update on the Magnolia project. Is is that not a flood or is
that a hurricane repair project? It >> It's a combo. It's really we we sort of identify as a roadway project, but to be fair, it's probably really more of a stormwater project. So, that project is under construction. Um the contractor has cleared the area around it and
they've removed the asphalt. They will probably start this week in demoing the road and removing it. Uh they anticipate in starting to install the box coververts, I would say, in the next 3 weeks. And then after that, they'll they'll try to they're they're really
trying hard to get it done before the wet season. I mean, we gave the original schedule was pretty long, but they're going to try their best to get it done before the wet season, so it's in really good shape. >> Any other questions? >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. You're welcome.
>> Good job. >> All right. We'll move on to item number 12, which is our conservation easement over the Twin Rivers golf course. Mr. Uh, thank you, Deputy Mayor. We're going to try something new. >> Can you get closer, too? Or maybe >> I'm going to try to get as close as I
can. Uh, we're going Here we go. Hopefully, this is going to make it so that I can operate the the vid the >> You got move You moved your computer closer, but not your mic. >> Give it a shot. Okay, let's try this. This better?
>> That is better. Okay. Wonderful. Wonderful. >> As long as you're like right into it. >> Yeah. Okay. >> No, we're fine. I think this will work. This will be fine. Okay. Um, says it's working.
>> Okay. Pass that other mic. He's not loud. Wade, can you Mr. Ve, can you pass that over? Thank you. Here we go. Hey, there we go. Good. Is there something where
I'm missing something? Got it. Thank you. Okay. Can you hear me? Okay, mayor. >> You're not really loud. Can you do like your open mic night? You just hold it near you. >> All right, cool. Thank you. >> Ah, you know what would happen if I turned it on? That would be very helpful, wouldn't it? How about this?
This better? >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. >> Wonderful. Wonderful. Okay. If you'll remember back uh at um your January 5th meeting, the mayor asked if we would have a discussion about putting a conservation easement over the over the Twin Rivers golf course. And um mayor,
just something you asked you asked uh about the golf course and how it helps save folks money on their their uh their flood insurance. The golf course is part of our community rating system and it's considered it's it goes into our open space calculation and that that's that
calculation because the acreage gets added into that and the fact that it is at the confluence of the two rivers of the little and the big big econ um because the city went in and saved that flood plane that's what gets the
additional points and and also increases I believe it's a 10% discount on the flood insurance. But one of the things after the meeting, I asked the mayor if she would uh tell us what she was looking for as far as the uh what she was wanting to achieve with the conservation easement. She was very
helpful with us uh very g uh very generous to tell us about some of the things and we put we this is just the the uh the agenda memorandum but I thought it was important to be able to show first these are the types of things that the mayor was looking for as far as
conservation as far as limiting the impervious services declaring a no build zone uh certain over certain areas um and we had a long discussion about it we We talked about a a conservation easement in a
traditional sense but then we talked about a conservation easement in a different looking at it differently. Uh usually conservation easements they are put over environmentally sensitive lands and um they they restrict you from doing
anything other than having that land be natural as it is. And so one of the things that and I'm going to turn it over here to uh to Mr. Bose here in just a second, but we came up with a restrictive covenant to uh place over the entire golf course. Now, I will tell
you that if you remember in your packet, uh there are two conservation easements over two wetlands. One over by the clubhouse and the one one down around 111213. There's another conservation easement down there over the two different wetland systems. But with the
restrictive covenant that we've prepared for your consideration, uh this will uh this would go over the entire course. And these are some of the things just generally some of the points that the uh that the restrictive covenant will do. And one of the things that I'm going to
do is I'm going to pull try to pull up the actual document and then I'll turn it over to Mr. OS to let him explain the different parts of the document and how that uh and what it does. So you go through the basics?
>> Yeah. Let me see if I can can I talk loud enough? Usually I can. Mayor, deputy mayor, council members, good evening. Um just going to chat with you briefly about uh some of the points we have uh in this draft. And please understand this is just a draft. uh for
uh your discussion uh taking a look at as an option here. Uh but when Brian and I and staff were talking about this, we were trying to get down to the brass tax of what are some of the essential concerns that that the thought of putting something over the golf course
might be trying to resolve. When we thought about that, thought we might be able to have a very brief and targeted document that got to a couple matters and would kind of take it out of take it out of traditional
government law, if you will, put a little bit more over into traditional real estate law. This is something that's going to bind the property whether it's uh it's not a land use restriction in the in the land development code sense. something that
would bind any owner of the property now and into the future. Okay. So, basically what we have the essential elements are that this if it were approved by the council and then recorded, it would limit the use of the Twin Rivers golf
course property to a uh defined set of golf course uses and conservation and storm water uses. This is, you know, completely at your discretion to fool around with if you wanted to go in this direction. This is just what staff uh thought might be an initial direction
you might be looking at amongst uh what we have in here is we've got these uh permitted uses effectively in those defined uses but then there is a set of prohibited uses kind of the the flip side of those defined uses there
prohibited uses encompass residential uses transient residential uses transient residential uses would be hotels, motel, resorts s or vacation. We thought if there was a desire to make very clear on that, it is obviously the case that there are golf course results
or resorts around the state. So otherwise, that is something you could typically see with a golf course. But if there was a concern about the golf course be being redeveloped with a hotel or anything like that, put it in it. Uh, of course, again, it's it's completely
at the council's discretion if they want to go uh the way of having a document like this. As I mentioned, this would be a covenant running with the land. Uh, you would be recording it effectively, not so much as a government, but you'd be recording it as the property owner.
It's a unique opportunity that the city has as not just the government with land use authority, but an owner of property. and put that on the property and it runs with it uh for forever. Uh now of course whenever you put a declaration on a
piece of uh declaration of covenants of restrictive covenants on a piece of property uh you have to have a way that can come off. All right. And uh so what we have built into this draft and again
just a draft is kind of the screws turned up to 11 if you will on uh what it would take to uh remove this covenant from the property. In this instance, it would actually be um approval at a
referendum of the electors of the city. Uh and only after that referendum was called by unanimous vote of the city council. Again, you know, ratcheting it up all the way there in both of those instances. I will share generally I
mentioned that this is a real estate document as much as a governmental document. I will share on the government side that it is actually a fairly typical uh thing you will find around the state where you have certain properties that are particularly special
to a city or county where disposition getting rid of or radically changing the use of that particular property would be subject to a referendum vote. I can give you lots of examples around the state. So that's not an unheard of concept. This just happens to be in the vehicle
in this instance of a restrictive covenant. Um, so those are the basics of what you have in this draft. Again, we're just trying to boil down what we thought were the essential concerns that underlay you some of the discussion on
this to give you a potential tool to to try to get at some of those issues. And glad to answer any questions. Okay, this is a discussion, so if you guys want to jump in, but I guess I will ask on if we were to do what you just
talked about as far as what I read up there um and in the packet is to recall it. Basically, it was either this or that, not all three. So, you could got it, you can get a unanimous consent by council, you can go to referendum with voters. >> It it's actually would take both.
>> It would take both >> in in the way it's drafted. >> Okay. Ultimately, it if you want to go this direction, it can be whichever way you'll uh tell me to draft it. But here it would be um it would be two steps to remove it or modify it. It would be uh
the council by unanimous vote would have to call a referendum >> stating what the change would be. Remove it, change it, whatever. And then it goes to referendum and then it passes. both when only when both of those things happen in that sequence would uh it be
modified or removed. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> So, if we were to do this, does it still give us the ability to if we wanted to at some point upgrade the clubhouse, u the pro shop, uh add the restrooms out there on the golf course? >> I I believe absolutely it does because
actually, let me uh Brian, would you mind going back up to the golf course uh uses there? So we tried uh our best in an initial run and of course very welcome to any uh you know rewrite or working of this. This is the list of
things that are permitted and it's not in its current footprint in its current form you know now and for all time. It's meant to be very general and broad. Golf course uses means use as a golf course and accessory uses typically associated now and in the future with the operation
of the golf course including clubhouse, restaurant and bar, pro shop, driving uh range, practice facilities, parking related to the foregoing and maintenance facilities. If there's other things to add to the list, we can add them. That doesn't say, you know, the particular clubhouse or, you know, on the current
footprint or anything like that. It's just these that's intended to be a list of a non-exclusive list of typical things that you find as associated with running a golf course. >> And what about >> you'd be able to upgrade? You'd be able to do what?
>> What about the uh the UCF facility that's on there? >> Uh sure. Do we have Yeah, practice facilities. We got practice facilities uh right in there. Yeah, that that was specifically put in there to to make clear that that's a contemplated. >> So would you maintain that and if at
some point we decide to move that, upgrade it or whatever, same thing. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yeah. That this that this definition would not restrict Yeah. moving it to a different place, uh upgrading it, expanding it, what have you. >> Gotcha.
>> There are other things that need to be worked out. The lease with UCF and so on. We need some tweaks on on those things, but this I don't think it would have any negative interaction with. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I got a few questions, >> please.
>> Now, as a storm water use, I I just don't understand why we would ever want to sell the golf course or why the city would ever even consider it. So that comes into mind for me to uh look at this as something to protect the
golf course operations and and into the future. And it kind of ties the city to the golf course at the hip means the city is making a commitment to to keep this golf course intact as well as the storm water retention area.
So you know the the conservation issue. I think we've discussed that and I'm leaning more towards this this need restriction, but I'm kind of curious. Let's let's just use this as an example.
UCF wants to upgrade their facility and wanted to make an arrangement for visiting teams to have a place to stay while they're here. That that goes into that transient thing. Would that be considered a a golf course usage uh to
allow visiting teams to have a place to stay? that that's this is exactly the type of thing that I think is useful to bring up now so we can think through some of that because I would tell you as it's drafted this very moment probably tell you we might have a problem with uh
with having what would be transient residential facilities places where people don't reside permanently but they stay overnight stay multiple nights in the manner of a hotel or a uh you know resort or what have you. Uh, so if there
is contemplation of something like that, probably want to >> language in there that would allow for something like that. I don't want a hotel, you know, or a high-rise or make it into a resort, but something >> something that, you know,
>> I'm thinking of the inn at at Bay Hill, but it's not even that. Just something where visiting teams that come for tournaments, assuming UCF is still using the course >> that they can have a place to stay. >> Sure. I mean we it could totally draft it would effectively be an exception to
the exception and and it would be that um that transient residential uses that are prohibited here wouldn't encompass facilities you know designed you know operated to allow I mean as you said you know teams uh
>> yeah it's not to be rented out or you know charge a rental fee >> right it's not not open to the general public it would be you know in in association with um uh the UCF I mean you could just make it very specific to in association with the UCF practice
facility and so on. So I mean if it was the direction of the council we could come up with effectively an exception to the exception to drill down on that use. >> Okay. >> Oh so UCF pays 0 in rent to rent the facility. So, I'm not particularly
excited about the idea of additional pvious imperous surface being added for anything related to UCF. Um, we bought this to stay open. And while this
is a really good step in the right direction to lock down, you guys probably were looking at all the the layers of maps, the one where you can you see them all overlaid and you still see yellow where things can still be built. Um, I would prefer to look at how
much square footage we currently have and name an imperous square footage related to what is currently there now. And that would encompass all of the parking because we could shift around if if we really want to expand footprints.
We can go vertical. We could have green rooftops. We could switch out uh impervious parking for parking that will recharge the aquifer. We could, if you've ever been turning down Econ, you see how much extra pavement is there.
That could be the parking lot for the golf course and people just walk a little bit of extra, you know, few extra steps to get there. So there's a lot of things we could do that would better lock in the amount of imperous surface there. So that that is a a step further
that I would would like to see happen. >> Uh so one of the things I was thinking about with this was uh the language about golf course uses. Um, one of the things that the mayor brought up, uh, probably six years ago, uh, when
when this came up at one point was that, um, locking it to specifically golf, um, could be problematic because, um, what you said at the time was that who knows, in in 50 years, people might not play
golf anymore. Um, which I found an interesting thing to ponder. Um, but recently in thinking about it, I realized that six years ago I didn't know what a pickle ball was and now we're restriping our tennis courts to to play pickle ball on them. So, um, if at
some point in the future there is, you know, some other kind of uh sport that is similar that is played on the same kind of thing that is what people want to play at that time, you know, some sometime down the future. um
how can we how can we structure this so that that could be allowed and and I know that can turn into a slippery slope, right? Um which I don't want to do, but I think it's still something to consider. What was it? There's soccer
golf going on for a while and there was a little bit of um consternation between traditional golf players and the glow-in-the-dark soccer golf players. But, you know, perhaps something of that nature, we should we should leave open
the possibility of that. >> I don't think that's happening anymore though, is it? >> Well, nighttime soccer golf wasn't the issue. It was daytime soccer golf when golf balls were being teed off and >> they needed they had an opportunity to re uh >> Oh, now that is that, but they didn't
>> but they decided to get rid of the >> for safety reasons to get rid of the soccer ball. That that is an interesting thing for a recreation department to ponder like but that's yeah get it back to that later. >> Yeah glow in the dark. Let me let me
break this break this apart into two analytical parts here. Okay. So, uh, first off, I think the general idea to make it clear, cuz I I don't think it certainly wasn't the intention when I was putting together this draft, and I don't think the intention would be
generally, uh, that in the future when variations on golf or things that are played on a golf course or something, you know, much like a golf course, that this is intended to prohibit that outright. All right. Um, so to that
point, I think we could work on some language to to narrow it in there. I I would suggest probably you want to focus on the narrower angle that would be games, you know, played on a golf course or something like a golf course. That's as opposed to whatever the rules of the golf course are. The mere fact that it's
in this thing doesn't it nevertheless the golf course can say that's nice, but we don't allow, you know, XYZ golf or or what have you. So, I just want to break those two things up. The mere reference of of having it expanded for the future
doesn't mean anybody can just go out there and do it. They're still going to be subject to whatever the current golf course rules are. >> Of course. >> See? Yeah. Clarifying that for the public, too, just so they understand. >> I had a similar question, but the other direction. Um, a lot we're like one of the only cities who's kept our golf
course and it makes us money. Um, so a lot of them have shut down the golf course and turned them into parks. Is this preventing it from going that direction or are we still okay in that regards? Because if let's say our golf course isn't profitable and we want to do something like they're going to go do
over by the golf course near Deer Run, just turn it into a stormwater park. So it still fulfills what we want it to do. Does this block us from going that direction? So that's that's a great question because um while the language here probably would accommodate
particularly the way you characterize it as a stormwater park uh but probably would accommodate it would probably want a little bit more clarifying language. Again I want to break this apart into two concepts here. This
um restricted covenant, the draft restricted covenant as drafted here does not itself mandate that the city will continue to operate an operating golf course on that property. This is restrictions. This is saying the only
things you can do are XYZ and Q, right? It's not saying and we shall do X or shall do Y. Um that's that's a separate operational you know decision to be made by the city as time goes on what have you. Um if there is a desire to make it
crystal clear that um that either that be an option or you want to you know have that as an option but narrowly or what have you that is we be glad to take additional direction on that uh because I would suggest to you
there there may be a difference between uh having what's you know the truth on the ground right now golf course and then conservation and storm water uses in and around it and so on. It would be one thing for that to just stop having an
operational golf course there and that remain as it is versus it is completely transformed into uh very active parks with with a lot of with whole new things installed in the middle of what were
fairways and so on. Those are probably two different things and I would ask you all to make a policy decision about that. >> Okay. Anything else before I kind of sum what we're talking about here? >> Well, I I will tell you that I just wrote down Castleberry, Sanford, Cocoa
Beach, Orlando all have their own golf courses and they're all making money. So, it's it's not the ones that don't make money are the ones that close. >> Right. Okay. >> I just think there's been a lot in Seminal that have closed. >> Yeah. And >> but we do Well, >> yeah. and so do a lot of a lot of other people's. And also golf has been around,
I just looked it up, since 1400s. It's it's been along longer than football, soccer, baseball combined. So I I don't think it's going anywhere even in the next 50 years. In fact, it's it's expanding. It's almost worldwide now. I don't think there's a golf course on Antarctica, but pretty much everywhere
else there's a golf course. And you can watch it 24/7 on TV. So, uh, the discussions about, you know, golf going away, I just don't think they're viable. I think we got to do what we can to make this golf course successful now and into
the future. >> And I'm not suggesting we don't make our golf course successful. I'm just saying if 30 years down the road we accidentally put too many protections to not do what we need to do, then I'd rather fix it ahead. >> I think there were off ramps in this,
didn't you know, referendums? Yeah. Yeah, there are there's ways to do that. It I just uh >> I think I'm glad to see that they're not easy, but yeah, there's ways to do it. >> It sounds like everybody's on board with looking into some form of doing this. Is
that what I'm hearing? >> I am. >> I'm seeing nods. Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we at least have consensus to move forward with doing some kind of restriction here. Um, Council Member Bifford, you mentioned temporary housing for UCF. Is there any consensus for
looking into options on putting something that would help the team do like a camp or >> council member? >> Oh, was that Bren? Okay. >> Yeah. You know, again, >> what did you call it? An exception to an exception. >> Um,
>> I guess the mayor and I can agree to disagree. I think we're in partnership with UCF. We've got a is it a 50-year lease with them? >> 50 is it 50? Yeah. >> We've got a 50-year lease with them. I >> at zero dollars a year. Well, >> I would I would opine if they wanted to
do some more development out there that they they would partner with us. They're a Big 12 school. Uh if they want to compete in the Big 12, they they should be willing to invest in that. I've got no issue with them having a
sort of like a lock in in their current facility if they want to have people in sleeping bags on the floor in their facility. But adding um any impervious surface I I just that is not why we bought it. We didn't buy it to add more buildings
anywhere not even near the buildings that are there uh without removing imperous surface somewhere else which is totally doable. the technologies there we can build vertical. >> Any other thoughts on this one? >> Uh there's a lot of new hotels and stuff
like that, you know, in and around UCF uh already. Um it kind of seems like if UCF wanted to put people up, they would do it, you know, on their own campus. Seems like that might make most sense. I I mean, it would be more fun to be on
the golf course, I guess. It's not really that far and they you know they're already they're already designing for this on campus. >> Maybe we can ask around the Big 12 see how they do it. >> Council Bradford.
>> No. Uh I appreciate it, Mr. Rose. I mean that was a a lot of work that the staff has put into this. So >> but about the uh UCF housing though I'm seeing if we have interest here. Yeah,
I mean I I I see it hard to do, but I mean I'm not opposed to it. >> Okay. Um, so can we why don't we look >> That was just a hypothetical. >> Yeah, that's a hypothetical, but can we look into some options on that? It doesn't look like we have direction to go forward with it, but if we could see
what that would look like. >> I can put together some language for you all take a look at. >> Just Yeah, just to take a look at >> um >> Well, one on on that one potential thing, you know, you were talking about impervious surface. I mean, if you know the clubhouse were to at some point be rebuilt, I mean, could you go up with
it? Could you have a clubhouse? >> If they're sleeping on the top >> and you have a couple of floors of uh >> But even then we have >> residences on the on the top. >> Those are two different issues. >> Use, right? Yeah. >> Pervious area versus use. So, >> no, that that's true. Um >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And just to more generalize something I was referencing before, anything that's listed as a as a not a restricted use. All right? Because I was about to say permissible use, but that's a land use term. All right? This
is this is a real estate document here. This is saying the things that you can't do. And it's basically you can't do anything but the things that are listed here. But keep in mind that for now and into the foreseeable future,
the city owns this golf course. And so anything with regard to let let's say such a facility was generally described in here as being allowed or not prohibited, um that's still going to be completely up to the city's whole development process to
decide, you know, how to build it. and city council could say, uh, no, we don't want any more impervious service or what have you. Not, you know, not saying not to talk about it now. I'm just mentioning how this structurally document would work.
>> Okay. And then the only other question I had is do our does our staff have any concerns about doing this? Does our operating management I assume we talked to them about that? I no they didn't express any any as long
as we're able to operate the golf course that's all they >> so they were okay with >> yeah they were okay as long as we didn't we didn't impede the ability to operate the course maintain the course or to be able to do capital improvements on the course >> okay all right so do we have consensus to move forward >> yes
>> yes >> did we talk about the impervious surface cap idea >> I do I do feel that is an important thing to potentially I'm not looking to do that right now, but we can ask for consensus here. >> No.
>> What's the specifics? I don't recall that being >> Well, it's not really mentioned, is it? So, basically, within the yellow areas, you would still be able to build whatever you wanted to as
long as it's a golf course use. And council at a later time agreed to it. So that's that's my concern because I I think the idea is to make it so you can't build. >> I think we eliminated almost every use that we would be concerned about as far
as overbuilding. I I don't see that concern. But but >> I have one more thing that kind of just came into my mind uh regarding it's similar to what they did at DeRit. They did a lot of modifications to that golf course and combined it with storm water
improvements, but the course was completely modified. So, I want to make sure that we we could do that under this this deed restriction. Correct. >> Yeah. This this is not locking in what is storm water today. The exact path of storm water today must be that exact path of storm water for all time.
>> Storm water golf course usage >> all together. This is all just one blanket thing over the entire >> entire set of parcels. I assume it's multiple parcels. I haven't looked. Oh, it's just one. Oh, along it's it's a single thing over the entire large
parcel of real estate that in all of here is just these uses. So, moving it all around in there would be subject to a bunch of other laws and rules obviously, but not be affected by this. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. Well, that's we'll move
forward with that. Uh, anything else on the golf course? Okay. We'll move on to item number 13, which is the order of business and rules and procedures for public meetings SOP. Mr. Cop, >> thank you, Deputy Mayor. I'm trying to
get over to that right now. Here we go. If you remember back from your uh last work session, uh we had a discussion on the order of business uh standard operating procedure and the direction of council was to bring back some ideas uh
regarding how to address what we what we have termed as uh noticed meetings. And so, uh, we I'm going to, uh, Mr. Vos did put together a proposal, uh, for you to look at as far as
modification of of your standard operating procedure. Uh, we have it up on the on the screen there, and I'm going to turn it over to him and and I'll try to navigate the the screen as he speaks. >> Thank you very much, Brian. Mayor, deputy mayor, council members,
good evening again. Um so on this item you have before you uh draft set of um uh modifications to your rules and procedures based on the discussion from your uh January work session. It's
divided up into kind of two sections here. First general rules and procedures and then much further down we'll get to in a little bit um what's titled uh noticed meetings. So in the general rules and procedures some a lot of words here to get at a couple concepts. Uh
first it's to to uh really button this up to make it very clear that all meetings between two council between council members uh on this council that are subject to the sunshine law are also subject to this SOP and the rules and
procedures. And um the section uh based on uh some discussion that was had at uh that work session uh provides that meetings will generally be held in the city council chambers except as directed
by the city council. And then it actually again just to to button up all these people uh these pieces and provide some clear direction to staff effectively says in a lot of words that
uh city staff uh have to notice meetings only in accordance with uh and relating to meetings that follow these rules. Um and so that's effectively what you have worked out in here. In addition, uh
there was uh to provide some clarification about how noticing of other events occur. I took language that had historically been used in Ovito for the noticing of public events for transparency purposes of sharing when
two or more members of uh either the city council or any board of the city were going to be at in attendance at a meeting. Um there's a little bit of of tweaking here just to make it very clear that effectively the things that happen
at a meeting that require um or that implicate the the actual application of the sunshine law will not all be happening at those meetings. They'll be there. They might be listening to some presentation or something like this, but there'll be uh
no discussion between two or more members of that board about a matter that may foreseeably come before that board for action. So again, a lot of that up there is just buttoning up to make it all hang together. By the way, while I was in there doing that, um
there was an additional piece I kind of noticed as uh I was looking through and comparing your um rules and procedures to the charter. All right. And I want to make sure that these two things, you know, integrated as well as possible. Um
the charter of course uh discusses uh two types of meetings. Um, you've got regular meetings, you've got special meetings. There was no actual mention of special meetings uh in these rules of procedures. Uh, my I gathered from
talking with staff that the practice has always been that the rules for special meetings always followed effectively the the rules for regular meetings. And uh, so I just added a sentence that clarified that point and I I that was just kind of clean up. Moving on down to
notice meetings. So the notice meeting section here uh provides for parameters and uh procedures for meetings between council members but outside of either regular or special or work session
meetings. Basically all the types of meetings that now above are discussed in these um uh in these rules and procedures. And that term notice meetings. And a lot of this language I think was alluded to at
the work session before on this is cribbed pretty much directly from procedures that are in place and have been in place for decades uh in Orange County for the Orange County Board of County Commissioners. And it contemplates a circumstance where there
is an interest for members in that instance of uh members of the board of county commissioners there to have a meeting outside of their uh regular or special meetings and so on. So two or
more C uh commissioners in that instance can discuss particular matters. They want to get into the weeds or hash something out uh as between them uh and so on. And so uh that was the model I
used to put this together to have you know an additional type of meeting that would facilitate uh meetings along those lines. Basically what you have uh within these uh rules that are set out here is um
uh providing that uh a time period in which uh those meetings um uh a very clear time period. Sorry, let me try to phrase this appropriately here. Um
it provides minimum notice requirements effectively for these type of notice meetings. I I want to share at the outset because I think we may have some discussion about it. Uh here I put in here as a as a starter number posted no fewer than five calendar days prior to
the day the notice meeting is held. Notice if anybody I'll note if anybody took a look at compared to Orange County's uh rules, it specifies 2 days. Okay. And actually, it phrases a little bit different. It's 2 days before the day, so it it's kind of a little bit
more than two or what have you. Um, that sentence has been in there for decades. It's made me queasy for decades. I'll just tell you. Um, I think I've discussed it before. Um, there are not I'm not saying that there
are not instances where you could do notice on, you know, 3 days or two days notice for a given meeting. it gives me more queasy, you know, the shorter we get on all that. Um, I share that I have five days there because it it's backing
off from my usual advice for all meetings, the starting point of 7 days, but um because these are meetings at which very formally now with these rules, no action is going to be taken because it's just a discussion between
members and so on. I think it could be justified to go under that 7-day uh guidance from the attorney general's office and I think it could go a little bit further if it was the desire of the council. But just wanted to share that out there. So, um
all of these rules here just basically lay out that notice is handled by the city clerk's office. Uh in these instances here where there's going to be meetings between council members, the notice will set forth what um council
members will be in attendance and um uh it will lay out subject matters to be discussed in those meetings. Doesn't need a a detailed agenda with with um uh you know full uh agenda memos or anything like this. is just list of
subjects to be discussed and uh then provides for minutes to be taken by the clerk's office and an audio recording to uh be made by the clerk's office. Again, this lifted from the Orange County rules.
And um I think that is the basics of what you have among the rules for notice meetings. So, with that, I know I threw a lot at you, but um glad to answer any questions.
>> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Rose. Well, I'll open this up for discussion. >> I'd like to start if that's okay. I uh wrote some stuff down. >> Um uh one thing I'd just like to say at first is um I I'd like to reserve the right to come back as we as we go. I'd
like to be able to go around. And I know sometimes we just kind of go down the line and then we make a a decision, but I just like to not do that today. Um, so what I also like to start with is um is this draft here that Mr. Bose went through. Um, it has uh it has it has a
lot of things in it. Um, I know it's it's typically the the um the practice of of staff to give us, you know, some kind of of starting point. Um but I I think in this case we would be better served if we um were to talk about what
we would like to do, what problems we'd like to solve and and build up what we want to change in this from first principles. So if that's okay, I would I would like to to set this aside and do that. So, I've been thinking about this a lot
since uh since our our last meeting. And one of the things that I have have dwelled on a certain amount is that what if the shoe was on the other foot, right? What if um what if it were not me um that were participating in these uh
meetings compliant with the sunshine law, but it was if it was other council members? What um what would I think? What would I do? What would I what would I feel? Uh my first thought would be I think is uh as many of of you uh had was
is this legal and finding out whether this is a a legal thing to be doing. Um and then upon finding out that yes this is legal under the sunshine law. Um beyond that I feel like my thoughts would be that well beyond it being legal. I mean it's it's
free speech. I mean, people can uh get together and speak and as long as they're not violating uh the sunshine law, then that's kind of that's kind of just life. I mean, we're humans and and humans communicate and it would uh I I wouldn't try to do anything about that. Um but I would have three options,
right? Uh the first is is that I could go since these are publicly noticed meetings. Anybody from the public uh including any council members uh could go uh to that meeting. Uh you said last week, deputy mayor, uh something about um worrying that there would be a quorum
if there were three people. Um perhaps we can talk about that uh uh later and uh get some clarifications on what that um could be and what the ramifications would or would not be with that. Another option I would have is that uh if these meetings were happening at some
time that didn't really work for me or I was precluded from coming, I could ask at one of our regular sessions like hey could we have one of these meetings at a time that works better so that I could participate you know uh communicating that I would like to participate and are are you willing to to accommodate?
Another thing I could do is I could ask what was said right? I mean the minutes uh are submitted but you know they don't have every detail of what was said about each topic and uh that's something that could be asked you know hey you guys talked about this what what was it that
was said what are your opinions on it and the discussion could uh extend to a regular meeting or a work session what I would not be doing in that case if the shoe was on the other foot is trying to silence these meetings
Now, one thing that was brought up last week, and uh I I may quote you a couple of times, deputy mayor. I'm not picking on you, but you and I did most of the talking, so >> I don't feel picked on you. >> Uh is is you spoke about that you felt that there was a lack of transparency
that these meetings created a lack of transparency because they didn't happen in here the way that regular meetings happen. And I thought a lot about transparency, too, and why we think about transparency and why we think the things that we do. And I believe that we think about transparency the way we do
in city government is because of the sunshine law. So the fact that the sunshine law exists, it causes us, I believe, including me, to to feel like that things should happen a certain way, even though all of those things are not
necessarily implied by the sunshine law. In in this case, we've complied with the sunshine law, but it still doesn't feel transparent. And so even when the sunshine law is satisfied, we still have questions. We still have feelings about it. And and I don't think
we would be having those if there were no such thing as a sunshine law. If there was no such thing as a sunshine law, we could just all call one another up on the phone and say, "Hey, what do you what do you think about this?" And nobody would think to try to prevent somebody from doing that, I believe,
because communication is human. So I I wanted to propose a thought experiment. Is it untransparent to talk to a resident about an issue? Well, certainly nobody would say that we shouldn't talk to residents about an
issue because that's what representative government is built on. We represent the residents and and we want to know what they think, right? But is it untransparent? I think you have to say uh at least in the context of this conversation that it
probably is, right? Because it's a conversation. It's a an influencing that is not reported to the rest of the council, right, or to the public at large. But again, nobody would say that you can't talk to a resident. So, is it untransparent
to talk to a resident who has an interest monetarily or otherwise in something that's coming before the council? So, an example of this would be a developer. Is it untransparent to talk to a developer who is proposing a development project in the city of Ovito? Now, I know if it's quasi
judicial, you have to report that, right? And you have to state that, yeah, I met with this developer, but all of my decisions are going to be made on the things that are presented in this hearing, right? But if it's not quasi judicial, if it's purely legislative like the Arya was, you could speak to
that developer. Um, they could say all kinds of things and you wouldn't even have to report it at all. So, is that untransparent to have had that meeting? I would argue that yes, it's untransparent, but it's not illegal and we wouldn't try to say to somebody that
you're not allowed to do it. It's just a certain level of untransparency that's built into the system. So the third one, is it untransparent to talk to staff? And I would say that
of course nobody would say that we shouldn't be able to talk to staff because with Sunshine Law it's kind of who we're left to talk to, right? Sometimes I call Mr. Cobb and just rant and rave because not that he can do anything about it, but he's the only one I can call. Not that I rant and rave really about much, but um
but staff is used for opacity, right? so that we can have conversations with staff that don't have to happen on the dis and you know when I was when I was running one of the things that I um one of the things that I thought that I wanted to to push for more of was to
push for more discussion during the meetings. So sure you talk to staff but you know you also try to have the same conversation in public and uh you know during during the water I remember you know that that was a big deal right we were raising water rates I was very new here I wanted to talk about all the
things and one of the things that that um you know I was told at a work session by by a member of the council was like hey call Mr. cobble of the phone, right? We don't have to do this here. Well, you know, I I was trying to be transparent and we were encouraging speaking to
staff in a way that is untransparent to the public. Now, staff and this this is kind of a loaded word, but I'm I don't mean any malice by this, but but staff um does have an opinion. They might they might have an agenda, so to speak, right? And the proof of this is that uh
when resolutions are introduced at the end of the staff report, it'll say staff recommends that city council pass, you know, resolution X, right? Staff has opinions. We we want them to have opinions. We pay them to have opinions and do analysis and and that's okay and
that's good. But at at what point um could could could a staff and I'm I'm not saying that this happens here, but I do know this happens in other jurisdictions, right? And when we make rules, you know, we're not making rules for the happy case. We're making rules
to um that will apply for the future as well, right? Um staff could tell each of us different things to get us on board, to tell us all what we want to hear, to get us on board. And up from the dis we wouldn't have any idea what staff had said to a different uh member.
And so in that way uh is it untransparent to talk to staff? Um yes but it's part of the system and we uh we accept that a certain amount. So in this way you know sunshine may help legislatively in many ways but there are
ways that it could hurt in oversight and and that's that's one of the cases. Um, so one of the things you said, Deputy Mayor, was that um about these meetings that you're uncomfortable with how it works regarding these meetings. Well,
um, what I'm uncomfortable with is making law that a bridges the First Amendment. Now, you might be thinking, "Okay, Allan, don't we have to be all dramatic? We're not making law here. We're just making rules and procedures, right?" Well, it's true that this is not
an ordinance. It's not a statute. It's not a code, but we are a legislative body. We are the government. And what we do, including passing rules and procedures that regulate our own behavior, are broadly
law in the sense that the first amendment starts out congress shall make no law, right? And the 14th amendment extends that to the states and to the local governments. that local governments shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. And we deal with
the ramifications of the First Amendment and how it applies to local government in this chamber even even recently. And none of us would dispute that the First Amendment does apply to local government uh except for here.
And so I'm uncomfortable with making law that abridges the first amendment rights of other council members because supporting free speech is axiomatically the support of the rights of other people to make speech that you don't like or in this case speech that makes
you uncomfortable. So now all of that said I am definitely okay with touching up some things in here like uh notice periods or the text of what goes into notices. I'm not okay with some of the proposed changes uh which include limiting topics
of of speech to an agenda for example uh the attendees uh or the location of these meetings because I find these to be a violation of both the free speech clause and the peaceable assembly clause
and uh Mr. OS believes that uh you can do this and I and I think your words to me at some point was you can regulate the time, place and manner of speech. Something to that effect. >> Probably something I >> probably something like that. And so,
you know, uh if you were to do that kind of thing here, you'll probably get away with it. But make no mistake in what you would be doing in limiting free speech and limiting the First Amendment.
And so with all of that said, I as a human, I don't want you to be uncomfortable. I don't want you to be suspicious because I respect all of you. And uh one of the things you said was that from the
minutes you can see the topics but you don't know for example a quote what was agreed upon. And uh when I watch that in the meeting um it it actually it actually grieves me that we created a situation where you
might think that or where you might um you might where you might think that at these meetings perhaps we >> uh >> decided to agree on some issue to to plot or how we were going to vote and uh
and and I understand that and uh and I'm and I'm sorry that that was the perception and I just want to say for the record um the mayor and I don't tell one another what to think and uh we actually vote
opposite fairly often. It feels like about a third of the time for contested issues. We actually don't even vote the same way. So, the idea that we go to these meetings to get our stories straight or something like that, um, I just don't think it the boating record
bears that out. Um, and one thing you said was, uh, that you talked to four lawyers and that quote, none of them think this is a good idea. >> And, uh, that's accurate. >> I I I I believe that that is accurate. Yeah. Um, however, uh, Mr. Vose said in
the last meeting that uh he can say quote with a firm conviction that this complies with all three elements of the sunshine law. >> The state attorney when we were referred to for prosecution on this matter told us that well told the the the recipient
of the letter that this was legal and another municipal attorney that I've spoken to recently uh basically agrees with all of this that I'm saying and uh says I should go for it. So that's three saying it's legal. Now, as to whether it's a good idea, legal and good idea
are definitely a different thing. And I I understand the the distinction. And so I'm not surprised that you were told that because we go to ethics training where municipal lawyers tell us the easiest ways to stay out of trouble,
right? The easiest ways for them to stay. >> But you're saying you've gone to ethics training where they say, "Do not do this." We all go every year and they say do not do this. >> I've been to ethics training and >> do they say not to do this >> and they are wrong. They are legally incorrect according to our city attorney. >> So hang on. Hang on. I I've been to
ethics training once. He didn't go as far to say not do this. But what he did was use a lot of vague language and put a lot of fear into people about uh about Sunshine Law and suggest that the ways to avoid it are to run the other way.
And you know, I liken this a little bit to uh the idea of cyber security in that the best way to secure your data is to unplug your computer from the network, power it off, and light it on fire. But it doesn't really do very much good as a data storage platform if you do that. So
in the same way, running away from um speech that you are allowed to have under the law is perhaps not the best way to have uh good governance. Um, and just to just for the record, uh, I don't consider Mr. Vose to be one of
those people who who does that. Um, so, and I and I appreciate that that, um, that Mr. Vos has definitely worked with us to try to um, make this um, you know, as as as legal as possible. And so, the evidence of municipal attorneys, ethics
training, and all of that stuff is that electeds in other cities don't do this at all. Right? When Mr. O says only Orange County has this in their rules and procedures. That doesn't mean that it's expressly forbidden in other places. It just hasn't come up because
nobody has tried because in other cities the electeds don't want to trigger this meeting right here. >> Right. We all take the same ethics course. We're told not to do this. >> I I don't correct. >> Okay. Well, I >> again I wasn't told directly to not do
this, but >> I but it >> Mr. Were they told directly not to do this at any point? That is a yes or no question. >> Yeah, I've I've got to jump in now. Actually, I'm really sorry to to interrupt just to to this point.
>> I I want to clarify one thing. If if I ever said before either when we were talking or when the tape was running that >> uh I don't remember the exact words you used that that firm conviction that it's legal or anything like that. I don't remember the
exact words. Then uh I was if I did ever say that that that was a poor statement of mine. What I can say is and I think I have said it that I as it was currently set up in most recent iterations of the
meetings that have happened. I can defend that. >> That's right. >> As as meeting the three elements of the sunshine law. Okay. >> That's right. >> So that All right. So that's in contrast to I will be quite plain. It is not, and I've I've been quite plain in in sharing
this, discussing with you all. It is not a practice that I would endorse. >> Endorsing and saying I can figure out a way to defend it in front of a judge are two completely different matters. And and to the deputy mayor's uh question, when I teach the ethics course, the the
Sunshine public records and ethics course uh across the state, I do try to be very discerning. I try not to be over broad, but I I a lot of a lot of the activities that that particularly in earlier times we had there are the types
of things I generally try to teach against. Again, I think it I think it's had moved to a place where I could defend with a very straight face all three elements in front of a judge on the sunshine law. That's a distinct
issue from the ability of the uh council as we've discussed to be able to regulate when its members and where its members and how its members meet. I'm sorry. >> That's right. No, and and I I appreciate because I I don't I wouldn't want to misrepresent you at all. Um and and this
was from the last work session. I went back and I I read it from from the tape and you were talking about um how you had uh you know worked on the notices and all of that stuff. um that you know to say that and and and yeah those those words were there and and I think you what you said now is essentially what
you said last time we're talking about legally that is defensible. >> This is a legally defensible position. >> Um so I'm sorry if I restated it poorly. So um back to this meeting. Other cities don't want to do this because they don't want
to trigger this meeting but I think this meeting is worth it. And I think one of the reasons this meeting is worth it is because if we can come up with something here um that that works that this is the kind of thing that could provide a
blueprint for electeds in other cities to do similar so that they can provide better legislative governance and also better oversight over their over their own staffs. So to sum this up, um these
meetings are legal under the sunshine. And I I know uh from the last meeting that some of you on the on the council don't like them. And what that does is it moves these into the category of speech that's not illegal,
but speech that you don't like. And there's a quote that's been said many times over the last hundred years that goes something like the antidote to speech that you don't like is more speech and not forced censorship. And so with that, I'll give it back to you, Deputy Mayor.
>> That's a lot to unpack, but uh well thought through. Um yeah, I guess let me go down my list here because I took notes as you talked. Um, as far as what you're talking about, um, I do not ever want to infringe on someone's first amendment rights and freedom of speech. That is not my intent
at all. Um, I did not invent the sunshine law. I am taught to follow it. I understand you said this is absolutely legal. He says this is legally defensible, which is different to me. It means you check the boxes and he can go in front of a judge and thinks he can
make a good case. We also are mandated to take an ethics course every single year. And every single year for five years, I've been told, "Do not do what you're doing." And I understand you might have the position of, "Well, we should ignore that advice of this ethics course that we're forced to take because
you got to take the risk so we can do what we're doing." But I don't see the benefit of what you're doing because frankly, our job is absolutely to meet with the public as much as we can all the time. And I think we all do that. And we all do that on our own because we
have rules that say that's how you should operate. And I brought up last meeting that if you if I were to meet with let's say council member Britain and we had a meeting where there's no notes, anything like that, um I said, "Hey, it's it's coffee with me." And he
showed up and then we talked about everything that could possibly come up on the next agenda. And we get to the next meeting and those meeting minutes aren't approved. the agenda was never posted. So maybe council member Bifford didn't show up to coffee because he didn't know we were going to talk about what we were going to vote on. And then
we go vote on that. Well, we had a whole discussion that nobody else is privy to. That is where I say we lack transparency when we have those kinds of meetings. And that's I think the intent of where it becomes an ethics question. Um you mentioned, you know, we should be able
to call each other and talk about whatever we want and no one would ever try to prevent that. I I I think the opposite of that. That's why the sunshine law exists because that's how you get backdoor deals. They want everything in the sunshine. They don't want us calling each other and talking and having private conversations.
>> So, and if you can see, you know, this is not, you know, I talked to Mr. Vos and I said, I don't have an issue with council members meeting. I have an issue with the access to these meetings. Um, they're not here. They're not recorded.
The public is not always aware. Um, I would not expect that if the mayor of my city said, "Come get coffee with me," that there's going to be two council members discussing the entire agenda or not from something labeled as coffee.
So, if we want to be transparent, I do think some of the changes in here are good. We should notice the meetings properly. We should say, "Hey, we're going to have a meeting. These things might be discussed because more than one of us might be present. They can be recorded. So if I have work, because these are not standard meeting times,
any of us can go look them up, digest the information, and be on the same page. It's as far as what what I'm looking at is I do want to bring this all as transparent as possible. And I know you mentioned Orange County is like the only one who does this. I I asked
Mr. Vos, what is the most lenient thing that another city or county does to allow this kind of meeting to happen? And it was Orange County. So, I am by no means trying to prevent these meetings. I am trying to bring them out so they're more transparent. And I don't know if I
said that any as far as intent or what you were trying to put down from what I asked, >> but um >> I think you summed it up. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, I think we'll go down the line here though. So, >> mayor, I know you missed our last
discussion, so >> yeah, I I wasn't here for any of that. Uh so I think it is important to reiterate that the the scenario you just described where people are not where the meetings are not noticed and there is coffee and we discuss city business that
has never happened. Uh they have always been noticed. They have been noticed so thoroughly that the dates and the medium and the format and the location and the minutes I believe were were turned over to the state's attorney so we could be
criminally prosecuted. So it has been thoroughly looked at you all all of these things and and all the meetings have been noticed in Sunshine has been followed. So um but I share Mr. odds desire not to make you guys have these
feelings. We need to have good feelings. So the concerns I have with what's proposed is that you just getting into the nitty-gritty that only people who are noticed to be there can speak and at all of the meetings that have been had going backwards all of you are invited.
It's just nobody else came. So if any council member comes to any such meeting, I would want every council member like every member of the public to have an equal opportunity to speak. And I did some Mr. Vosa note. I was like, you know, I'm thinking out loud here. It is kind of an interesting idea
if I want to have you say I only want to have a conversation with Mr. Bford and you know and you show up and I say well you know I don't want to talk to you. I don't want you to interrupt us. I just want to talk to him and he's agreed to talk to me. uh you know should we have a scenario where we can silence other people in that way and yeah now that
I've heard all this no no we shouldn't have that anybody who shows up should be able to speak and we shouldn't be able to have a twoerson meeting where nobody's allowed to talk but the two people even if they're supervisor that last sentence on the first paragraph >> uh yeah I need to my my computer went to sleep again
>> so yeah that that sentence is a copy paste from Orange County >> so we just we just put all five people >> yeah I I I don't see that sentence as some integral lynch pin to the world. >> So we can get rid of that. >> Yeah. Okay. Everybody can talk. Um the
agenda being set 5 days ahead. I have been following things going on in the city from multiple you long time ago. I was in journalism and things would happen. You the the public would get the agenda. it it shows up on Thursday, I think, right, to the to the regular
public. And it takes until maybe Friday, Saturday to see the big problem. Uh, and we haven't had any of those really big explosive issues lately. But if something were to come up and members of the public go pull in a you get their
own civil engineer and they want to do some stuff and some members of council are interested in aggressively pursuing push back on you maybe the policy issue or whatever. Um I think I think 5 days is too long. That's where I'm going with this. I I think the two days that Orange
County has or 48 hours prior to the beginning of a meeting to notice it would make sense. um because that would allow you to notice something. Maybe it's Monday morning before Monday evening's council meeting. If we had our meetings on Tuesday, that would make things a little
bit easier. I don't know when Orange County has theirs. Um so that's the sort of logistical >> oddball. I don't really care about meeting notice. I care about that it's recorded and recorded by the clerk's office and public.
>> Okay. So I do have a challenge in my brain with the idea of requiring the clerk to do something that could be done by anybody. We could just turn on the thing. Any council member could turn on a recorder. U I believe there is one recorded meeting that happened in here
and it was a one-hour long webinar. So the clerk recorded this webinar and there was a microphone and Mr. Cobb came down after he watched the webinar upstairs and there was a little bit of discussion and then right about 1:00 or maybe it was 2 o'clock. I don't know when it was but I needed to head home
and I I don't know if the meeting ended. I guess the meeting ended. It's it's very these are very casual meetings as they have happened as to our our body here. Um, so the other concern
with requiring the clerk to do it is I I would not want the clerk to have to come out on a Saturday if you know in the instance of something drops on Friday, the public figures out and they say, "Hey, can you meet with us on on Friday
cuz you know it seems like you're a pro this idea person and we think that person might be a pro this thing that and if they want to get three or four of us together and there's an outlier buyer who they might not want to come together. It would be nice to figure out how to allow that to happen prior to a
meeting. Um so that so the public is not inconvenience by talking individually to everybody for something like that. So I think we need to make sure it can that these meetings can happen whenever you outside of 9 to5 or
whatever time the clerks work. Even if the clerks are here and the meeting is in this room, that seems fine. Like, we all have codes to get out of the building. Um, I I just don't want to inconvenience the clerks or create any additional cost
that does not need to exist. Um, and I encourage all of you to go to Orange County's minutes of these meetings. So, they're recorded, but the minutes almost 100% of the time, maybe 99.9% of the time, are discussion ensued. incredibly
unhelpful. So you have to listen to the entire recording to know what discussion ensued. So if you look at the me meeting minutes that have been provided uh the last few months, there is at least some idea
what what was discussed versus just discussion and suit. So that that's some starter thoughts on this. >> Great. Council member Bodford, >> you know, I think it's it's a good start. Um, I I agree with the part about the the city clerk and you know, again,
I don't know how you're going to get the city clerk to go to these eido veto or, you know, coffee at the mayor. I mean, it's to your point, I think that's that's a lot. >> Well, these would all be here. >> They would all be here. Yeah. So,
I really don't have much to add here. I basically have a simple rule and that's behave myself. Don't break the sunshine law. I don't >> This is not breaking the sunshine law. Mr. Vos, can you please explain that we have never broken the sunshine law? >> Am I supposed to speak or mayor? Are you going to continue?
>> You keep making accusations and the rules and procedures specifically. >> I have a rule and myself and don't break the sunshine law. I'm not Did I mention you? Okay, >> that's the same rule we all should do. I'm not saying I'm not making any
accusations, but I do have a concern on we've got a meeting coming up with Tri County League of Cities. Do we have to tape record that? Do we have Do we notice those meetings? >> That's Do we uh tape record calo meetings?
>> That would be the public event one, wouldn't it? Yeah. No, no city business is discussed there. >> Yes, deputy mayor, you're correct. That would be under the the public event. And yes, we would notice that multiple of you would be attending. Uh no business
would be conducted. It would be the same. Uh as far as Calo is concerned, we do notice Calo as well. >> I always say if I'm attending >> under the rules, but the under the draft rules that are before you, there would be no requirement to record those or anything like that. It's >> I want to make sure I can go to a
meeting, not not have to record it myself. >> As far as League of Cities goes though, that is not a public meeting. That's a that's a private meeting. So that would not be that would not be noticed. >> I think they still notice that. Yeah, they do. They notice that. >> I think they probably still do. But
again, that those are those are noticed just for >> really public knowledge and courtesy notice. Yeah. >> The public cannot attend those, however. >> The public does attend it. >> Yeah. >> No, they don't. Oh, they do. Yes. But not at Tri County. I mean Tri County. It
depends. >> You have to pay to play at Tri County. >> Yeah, I think you have to >> Yeah, >> I think you have to pay to get into the Tri County. >> It's it's the the notices we receive say it's a membership meeting.
>> Okay. But non-members are present. >> I've seen it often. So, you know, I I'm not I think we're just watering down, you know, the sunshine law by by even doing some of this stuff.
That's just my opinion. Uh I'm going to continue to do what I do. Just I don't uh I don't ride with other people to events. I don't uh answer emails. I don't answer Facebook p pages. Uh, and
I don't talk about city business with other council members. It's pretty easy easy to do. None of us are perfect, but uh that's pretty hard and uh hard rule for me. So, I agree with you as far as my intent here is not to water down sunshine laws.
It's to make sure we're all following those rules. Um, I guess I need to understand if you are on board with this or not. >> I don't have an opinion either way. I I just told you what I what I do. Uh >> sure. >> If we want to restrict it, I I can go
along with it. >> Okay. I think it is sensible and good and fine uh to help make the three of you more comfortable to have the agenda to have some kind of agenda
uh that could be exceptionally broad. So if there, you know, anything on a past or if or current council agenda may be discussed. So as long as that's I' I'd rather not have that at all. But if if somebody wants to have that and you can
all live with it, then that is Yeah. And then presidents bring stuff up sometimes. U so maybe we could like handle it one item at a time for the proposed
changes. >> The the problem I have with the agenda is that with five days notice time, right, you're you're limited now in what speech you can make, right? If a resident comes, wants to talk about something, if something else comes up. So, you know, we have we have meetings
in here and we have an agenda and we have a section of our meeting where we talk about whatever we want. We can raise issues that didn't come up like, you know, this whole uh golf course thing. is because you brought it up when it wasn't on the agenda, right? And that's that happens here. It's, you know, it's recorded, all of that kind of
stuff. You know, if if you wanted to go that direction, then I'm not sure why we would make these meetings then more limited than what we could do here. >> I'd also like these meetings are official meetings where we're all present and expect to attend and that's
what we are elected to attend. >> That's right. Yeah. >> You're the the meetings you're referring to are not. That's right. I mean, it it is different. There's no there's no question about it. But, you know, one you had brought up, you know, you don't know what was said. you know, if if
there was going to be a a mandated recording of some kind and and if somebody from staff were to take the the minutes, then you know, it it is it is a thing that could be >> there's a thing that could be reviewed if you saw something in the minutes
like, oh, hey, what's >> if the meetings are held here and recorded, I'm good. >> Okay. So, if meetings are held here, you're okay. We >> properly noticed agenda >> two days two days notice. skip the agenda part. They're recorded and >> I'm seeing a fiveday notice down there.
>> Okay. I like the two-day notice like Orange County has >> so >> because of the the thing of because when our agenda drops >> or 48 hours figure out how to word it the right way, >> we're getting places. Okay, hold on.
>> We are we're good with meetings here and we're good with them being recorded. >> How many days notice? >> How many days? >> I'm not entirely cool with them being here. Council meetings notice. >> How many days are >> special meetings can be held within 24
hours of the mayor or 3 minutes? >> Five days. >> Five days. Five days. Yeah. I don't care. >> So >> would I'm I'm just thinking like there could be a standing meeting agenda review posted sort of like all of our meetings
are posted. Every Friday is agenda review with whatever council members want to show up and discuss anything that happens to be on the agenda. >> Yeah, you could do that. >> Okay. >> And then and then there are there is on the agenda discussion items which would
then encompass whatever else may be there. >> That's fine. Okay. As long as everybody's okay with this idea. >> I I would say if we're going to go five days, um >> do we have consensus on days? >> We do have consensus on five days. Three people want it. So, yeah, you guys get
to make us do whatever. >> If if uh if we were going to go 5 days, um is there a way we could know what's coming up with more advanced notice than we currently do than we currently have? >> Because right now, like if I go in Prime
Gov and look at the the future meetings, >> that's a separate topic here. >> Well, I think it's I think it's related, >> but we already we have five days consensus. So, if you want to move up when we get information from staff, that's a different topic. Okay, fair enough. >> Okay, I think we're good. >> I I I want to make sure that we provide
for town halls, the kind of thing that you had over at the golf course. >> So, with what we put in So, what with what was in this earlier, it did not provide for that, right? >> Well, council can we've done town halls before where we can decide at a meeting that we're going to host a town hall.
That's none of that's changed. Special meetings also exist. So, that hasn't changed, >> right? >> These are just meetings with one or two people. So, the mayor set up a a unilateral town hall, right? I want people to be able to show up and and be able to participate even if they're
hostile perhaps to whatever the issue is. Um, I'm just trying to think the things that we wrote down >> would prevent it. >> Okay. So, we kept >> my pen doesn't work. Sorry. >> So, what have we what have we said? We've said 5 days notice and we've said
in here >> 5 days in here and by a clerk and then we're all good. I would like to if it's in here not have to have a clerk. There is enough babysitters not to have the clerk >> staff member who is not a city council member. >> So a recorded meeting is not sufficient
for you. You want a physical person in the room at all times. >> I that's it's pretty normal. >> Okay. >> We have several right now. >> Yeah. If if people don't have better things to do then we can consume staff
time in this way and >> if you want to have these meetings yeah I mean >> it's a choice >> well I disagree with >> I disagree too I I don't I don't know >> yeah there's three people who have who who preddecided to do all of these
things and Mr. foes wrote everything up without consulting with the person who is absent and you know you had three people and you knew it ahead of time. So there we have it. >> I think we're doing this pretty openly right now. >> I I did not pre-isuss with anybody. I
did not have the meetings we're discussing about other than in public which I assume you watched on YouTube. I'm hoping >> I I saw part of it. >> Okay. All right. >> Okay. >> So I believe we have consensus. Mr. Rose, do you have what we're looking for?
>> 5 days good within city hall and someone to record. >> So, no changes at all from what was proposed. >> No, that's >> I believe and no, we're taking out the if someone wants to show up without pre-registering. I think you said they should >> and is the and the agenda
>> could be broad. >> Could be, >> but it has to, you know, say something about matters that may come before city council will be discussed and that is sufficient or is that insufficient according to you three? Yeah. >> Okay, that is sufficient. >> Let me let me >> So, we don't need an agenda then. >> Let let me get clarification on on that
point cuz I I heard clearly we're getting rid of the business about if it you weren't a council member that was on the list then you can't talk and all that. Um the requirement here specific topic or topics will be only topic or topics be
discussed at the meeting. If the intention is for it to be broad and all-encompassing, that sentence either needs to be rewritten or just struck because it's use of the word specific means specific. Um, so
>> I mean I guess that's dependent on what you guys talk about because I have seen like meeting minutes where you talk about everything. >> It's whatever residents want to talk about. I I just like to to say too I mean yes
it does say that but you know people almost all the time people bring stuff up and they want to know how something works and we talk about how it works not about how we're going to vote on it right like hey how's this water thing going to go or whatever right
>> I I I mean I talk to presidents a lot I completely understand >> so so yeah I I just want to make I just want to make 100% clear that you know that's that's that's the the bulk of it you Um >> Okay. So, do we want a specific topic or
leave it broad? Broad >> you leave it broad. >> Broad is fine. >> All right. >> Okay. And then you took out like that last sentence of if we don't notice. >> Got that out. Okay. >> Y good. >> I think so.
>> Okay. Anything else on that topic? Okay. Moving on to the city manager's report. Uh, council, I only have one thing. I will be out of the office Thursday and Friday. I have some uh family things that I need to take care of. And uh uh
Mr. Kelly will be acting city manager while I'm gone. >> Okay. City attorney's report. >> I have nothing to report. Thank you. >> Um I'm up I do not have a report. Mayor Slate, >> I don't think I have one. Okay, number
Oh, I do have one actually. Uh this Saturday, uh the Lake Mary Heathrow Art Festival is happening and it is to my knowledge the only place where Ovito art will be displayed. So uh I believe the presentation to our Oto uh artists is at
11:00. >> Council member, >> uh no report. >> Council member Bradford. >> Yes. Uh so this weekend also we have a taste of a veto uh at the mall uh sponsored by our u winter springs
chamber. Um also next uh next weekend we have the St. Patrick's Day uh festival uh which is a great festival. We always have a great turnout for that. Uh Mr. Bel, we got an email today from a uh a resident uh had some concerns about she
what she called uh increased enforcement for dogs on the lawn. I'll forward that to you, but maybe if you could look into that and maybe give us a little bit more background on what's going on there um on that. And
oh, we got Hope 5K next Saturday as well. So, another great event. And that's it. >> Okay. Council member Britain. >> Uh just a couple things. We did have the Ovito little league uh opening last weekend and we do have taste of Did someone mention Taste of Oto?
>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And I have one other question. This goes back to the agreement with the American Legion. And I'm curious as to how or maybe we can get an update on the status of the repairs to the foundation
uh to the uh veterans tribute and also any upgrades that need to be made and what comes to mind is it do we need to put a space force uh logo up there or or if there's anything else that's missing out there. Uh I thought there was some
talk about the Coast Guard. Uh, so I'm just kind of looking to see um how all that stuff's going to fit together and and how we're going to address it in the future. >> Good. All right, Brian. Brian's writing, so I think he's getting it.
>> I know Mr. Whitaker is working on the the foundation issues. >> Okay. And I believe the Space Force emblem is already there. I think I think it replaced the merchant marine >> if I if I remember correctly. >> Okay. >> But uh we can definitely follow up on
that. >> Okay. Just those are just thoughts that came to my head uh when we were talking about the agreement. >> That's it. >> Oh, I had one more thing. And again, wanted to uh recognize Officer Brungle uh for the life-saving award uh tonight. I know we had a lot of discussion items,
but I thought that was probably one of the more important things uh doing and again, you know, a real tribute to our our local public safety, both, you know, fire and police and what they do for our community. So, it was u it was really kind of special and I just just want to
make sure we recognize that. >> Okay. Anything else for the good of the order? Future meeting dates. Monday, March 16th is cancelled. I hope we have some good vacation spring breaks going on. Um, March 23rd at 5:30 p.m. We
rescheduled our work session, so we're not doing that one. Correct. >> It'll be the 30th. >> It will be on the 30th. So, our next meeting is March 30th at 5:30 p.m. And then April 6th at 6:30 p.m. we have a regular session. Is there anything else
for the good of the order? It is 8:25 p.m. and this meeting is adjourned.