and then if you're ready to start meeting. >> All right, let's bring the meeting to order. Hello everyone. >> I'll ask the secretary to make a roll call. >> Okay. President today Kimberly Bole
Valdra Sow Kum Anatoma Xavier Moss Lisa McCoy and um Amber Waters confirmed but she is not here so I guess you can um for the record when she walks in we can call her. I was just making sure we were up and running.
>> Very good. We need to remind ourselves to silence our cell phones. In regards to the minutes from the February 18th minute meeting, uh I'll entertain a motion to approve.
>> Move to approve the minutes from the February 18th meeting. >> Thank you. We have a motion. >> Second. >> And a second. >> Is there any discussion or corrections? Hearing none. All in favor to approve the minutes, please say I. >> I.
>> I. >> Oppose say no. Minutes are approved. This is the time for public comments. Are there any public comments at this time? No ghosts are here to make. We will now close the public comment
section. And we now have discussion items. Did we go to the agenda? Uh >> staff reports. >> Okay. staff report.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, what we discussed last time is that we were going to talk about the rating, >> the criteria for the rating for the sculpture. We have here in the
in the TV what was proposed by 11:00. um she's not coming today. She's okay. >> But this is the criteria that she provided for us to um discuss
open for the discussion of the board and I can read it if you >> you can make it larger. We can um >> now this is this came from kind of the
same draft as our previous mural evaluation. Last meeting we worked a lot on revising the mural evaluation. So we could
think back to that as a way to reevaluate this if we wish. I I want a clarification. So, did we pull from those updates from from that um
>> the from the mural and apply them to this? >> No. >> Oh, so this is completely >> Okay. This looks all new as far as I've got. No, >> this is the original edited. >> Yeah. original
>> original draft that she sent to us >> or discussion but it is all sculpture related. >> This is all sculpture. >> Could we pull up the revised mural one just to have a side by side? >> So the what we revised in the mural was
the cult artist, right? Oh, not the actual >> we revised the call to just to kind of um >> so we need to incorporate um the AI part to this what we did
before because that will apply. >> So this one is already is is the hot watches that already happened. Right. >> Right. Right. Right. >> So there was no criteria for AI. >> Oh. So this is the this is the rating
criteria for the rating of that >> contour artist that closed. >> Now we may conclude the same thing >> that if and if you I have the designs here we only have seven >> designs. If you want to see the designs before discussing that and I know if
that wrong right >> I think we should wait >> discussing I agree >> the criteria or >> just follow the same process that we did for the mural >> um discuss the criteria but we cannot put now AI
>> I mean you can but it was not there >> I mean you can rate against it but it was not there >> right thank Okay. Is everyone ready to scroll? You're okay.
Where did it said possible 60 points, right? Is that Are we stuck on that? Does it have to be 60? >> No, I think >> Where did Where did I see that? >> It's at the very top. I saw it.
>> Oh, yeah. just for the part. >> Okay. Part A >> 20. >> Yeah, it's 100, right? >> Yeah. >> Because I think criteria experience with comparable projects should have more weight so that we know for sure that
someone can has the ability to >> prove to do this. >> Yeah. Especially if this the sculpture has a significantly larger budget compared to like the murals and whatnot, you definitely want to make sure
this is something we're investing well in. >> So how much would you suggest? Well, if we made that, if we added 10 there, we could take 10 somewhere. >> I was gonna say we could take it from somewhere else. Yeah, too.
>> Think we could add >> It doesn't relate to the significance of the call. It's just a you know, it's a number, you know, like we could reduce something to five as opposed to 10. And
it's the only the only my only point is someone could get zero points on that and get tens everywhere else and win and have no experience of ever having done that. >> Yeah, we can add >> So I feel like it should be 0 to 40 or 0
to 50 making the total outcome 100 or or something. >> So we do you want to add five or 10 to that? I think you could add you could take five from the application completeness and five from materials. >> So we'll add 10 there.
>> Oh, it's because you have it in the browser. If you open it in Acrobat, it will let you >> I don't know if you have Acrobat here. Yeah, I don't think that on this computer. >> But I mean, does everyone does anyone >> not agree with me or
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> The the top 60 >> seems good because that's the artistic piece, right? That's >> the artistic vision and how how it's
working um in those different categories. >> What would be the range here? >> 20 >> 20. >> So you want to make the bottom one. You're thinking making the bottom one five. >> That was just a suggestion just for the
application completeness. I don't think that has to be a 10. That could be a five >> and then we have to find five somewhere else either execution and installation or somewhere material. >> I think the materials is a important
piece. I think that's worth 10. I >> agree. Maybe the corridor enhancement part though. >> Yeah, that one's sort of vague anyway, I think. >> Yeah, that's a lot. 20 points for that >> for something that we can't really find.
>> Yeah. >> It's like a little It's semi-redundant because right above it you have aesthetic quality. And I know that's I know I kind of get where Hel was talking about about like relative to everything else. Does it make sense? So I understand it but I don't think it has
to be 20. >> I agree in the set the context. >> All right. So if we reduce that to 15 and that makes the top group >> 55.
We keep the group B as 20 >> and we make group C as 25. >> So this is this is for our own use basically, right? As as we're going through the >> the submissions,
>> do you think that this works well for our for this purpose. >> Can I make a motion? >> Does it Does it Well, >> are we still discussing? >> We can do any anything you want. Uh >> well,
>> we probably should should have had a motion before discussion. >> Well, I'm motion I make a motion that we make these changes that we've discussed. >> Okay. So that's that's uh that can be done. All right. So changing the the
points for of these categories as as we've seen. Is there a second for that? >> Second. >> Okay. Um do we like that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. There's no further discussion. We can vote on making these point changes.
All in favor say I. >> I. I >> say no. Okay, that carries. Um, how do we like the uh verbiage? Does it is it clear in what it means to us? >> I still feel like the corridor
enhancement is just a little like uh Xavier was saying, it kind of merges up a bit with aesthetic quality and visual impact. I just feel like I'm I can see how people would be like, "Well, what's the difference?" I don't know.
>> In my mind, the the second bullet there a study quality is the piece itself and recorder enhancement is how it works in that particular set. >> Stunning. Because if you know >> um the location, are you familiar with that location
>> because of the um I think maybe the brick >> that brick part and then the sidewalk and >> and how it dead ends maybe. I I mean that whole and then the height of of the sculpture or whatever it comes down to because it that's what we were
originally talking about and I think that's where Helen that came from, >> right? Could somebody could have a beautiful design, but they insist it goes in one little corner of the of the setting. >> Okay. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> Yeah. And if it comes down between two that we really like, that could be the
dec. >> Yeah, >> because I noticed that the trees are burning around there, but I haven't seen what the frost what the freeze has done. Haven't noticed since then. >> Right. Yeah, >> it sure has. No, I think those trees are
okay. Those were >> there on like each side, >> right? Yeah. >> Yeah. I trying to last time I >> recently drove there >> and and I can just mention for your information
when we made the presentation of this project for the city council to get their approval to go ahead with it. Um they were aware of one person that had written a letter against this project.
>> And this person had written that it uh was instead of having a sculpture project to portray the fauna and flora, it should
be the fauna and flora itself. And we should have >> actual living. >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. >> Yes. And and they objected to the non-native trees that were behind the
brick wall setting. So, um >> Oh, well, >> but that was just one person, >> right? Well, let's look at the designs. No. And do you want to because the last
time it's it's up to you. Last time we submit this for you when you all um ranked at home, we only have seven. So I don't know if you want to do it here or if you want to repeat and do at home. >> I think we should get them here.
>> Get it done. >> Get it done. >> So we would have to print >> I can print this. You can bring this. Um they're not on the computer. >> No. No. this sheet changes, right? >> We're going to actually rate it. I
thought we could just >> Oh, >> that's that's what you're saying. We could do at home and have that for the >> Okay. >> Well, we could I now it makes sense that we could write it as we go. Yeah. >> And we'll just Yeah.
>> We have We're supposed to do for homework. We we have nothing major on on the agenda to take. >> No, it was just some updates. >> Well, once you're >> So, does anybody need to go home early today?
>> Uh, I don't have to. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Just then we have we're done by >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we can put a time on. >> So, would you like us to print? >> I can print this sheet out.
It's going to be like that. But you know, >> that would be useful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it's not going to have the um >> we can make the changes. >> That's not going to be >> and and we'll need some sort of a sheet.
>> I have a few. This is the score sheet. Give us to us and then we'll prepare an Excel. >> I have a question. Do you feel you're prepared to do this? >> I don't have a score sheet with you guys, so you guys will have to kind of like to keep it. >> Okay, but I mean are do you feel comfortable doing that?
>> We can do um >> how many boxes are there? >> There should be three, four, five, six, seven. >> So seven by seven with a with a >> header. Can you just print out a a blank Excel
uh grid? >> Um, seven columns, eight rows. >> Well, this is going to be when we compile everything. We all do individually, >> but but just to have u a score sheet to for us to record on.
>> We don't score over there. We print that and >> we actually put seven of them. >> We have that means we don't have to include it. So we can all >> and then we use this. I'm saying
>> we can use that, right? >> We're talking about each of us making our own evaluations and then compiling it, right? >> Yeah. >> Not group work. >> Not group work. Yeah. So they print we print all of those individually. Let's
just have a reference in front of us. That would be helpful. >> And then and then an 8 by seven grid >> write down the score. >> Yeah, >> I think because you were saying you're basically suggesting creating the spreadsheet and each one of us have a
spreadsheet that we can score all seven on. I believe Teresa was saying printing seven. >> Yeah. >> Each of these. So each of us >> I think that's >> not sure >> because it is an individual, right? >> Yeah.
I think that's what she was suggesting. >> And then they can later on do the spreadsheet. >> You want to do it that way. >> That's how we Well, she went already up to >> That's how we did it the last time. >> And then we can just give them all the sheets and they can be fine. And then we
put it and then there's a discussion. If you all want to change your score, we can change your score too. >> I'll make an offering to Laura. >> I can start doing that. I had a pin right here. >> So, were all seven submissions
completed? >> Did they have all the information required information? >> Um, the basic information. Yes. Yeah. But you see they have it's very diverse
>> good >> in in the proposal. So >> any giant salts of >> interesting interesting suggestions that's what I'm going to say. She's an emerging giant,
>> you know, downtown Orlando, city of Orlando, that sculpture with the glass >> that is always been the um celery um sculpture. People have always called it the Celery sculpture. >> The one right in front of city hall. >> Yeah.
>> It's been there for 30 30 years at least. 25 30 years. during time. It's >> more like an artichoke. >> Yeah, they call it they used the glass produce.
>> Yeah. >> While we wait on that, can I introduce a discussion item is that while we're just waiting? So um I know in a couple of our previous meetings we had talked about like the whole RFQ RFP thing. So I had drafted
like a proposal on like adopting that type of model for like our calls in the future. So I I brought copies if you all want to take a look and share
what that looks like. for everybody and let you pass. >> Thank you. >> I wish Helen was here. >> So, we can discuss that in the next >> Yeah, I can get this just so you guys can
>> just to add up on that. I mean, two things. Um, we received two emails complaining about the reposting of the >> the mural >> the mural by saying that we are um and
it was kind of the way it was um worded is that you are or the city is requiring arches to work for free. Mhm. >> And um which and and and and one made a comment on comparing to a car technician
that we would not take the car to three car technicians to repair the car and pay. Um so my reply I did not reply but my answer would be we're not requiring anybody to do it. This is a voluntary
thing right people participate if they want. In the architectural world, it's not it's very common for big firms to comp small firms to compete and they spend a lot of money and time investing in. So that's not something that is not unheard of, right? And they are not um
in this case the final the final product is the mural. M >> they did at this point the design you know in so I I recognize that there is time invested in there but it's not so so there was you know a complaint of
about our call to arches that we did not recognize the work you know um that uh that was done. So um and interestingly so far we haven't got any resubmitt >> really. >> Oh wow.
>> So that not even the ones that submitted before because we sent a letter. >> Remind us of the deadline month is >> though we got so far zero >> oh
um resubmitted to us. Is there any chance that they believe that their previous submission still counts? >> No. >> No. Because our letter was very clear. You can reubmit because now you have to >> disclaim, right, that you are not you
did not use AI. >> Okay. >> So we that and we sent a letter to them and we reposted it so that they understood the process. >> Really? I'm surprised one in particular didn't resubmit because it was quite obvious that person didn't use AI.
>> Well, yes, several. One one complained about the use of AI. Right. >> Right. But one definitely for sure did not. But um I'm shocked. I am also um um surprised and there was um um Lisa from
our public commission has been sending um that to several media you know places and they have been advertising our call and actually I was telling Savior before the meeting started they
showed the mural you know from Savior several times and one of them actually show Kathleen Safy in the art and chambers talking about you know how the city is trying to reach out to the um artists in the community. So that was we
may have to rethink about the call to artist process it posted on Facebook and the website >> and I know Dr. hours um >> post went out to the artist twice.
>> Yeah. This for the future because it's too late since it's already out. Yeah. >> I was at the um the mural madness event they have over this weekend and I'll see a couple of them tomorrow night. So I'll I'll send it to some muralists just say,
"Hey, >> get this into your community." But I would expect at least some of the ones that already did the work >> would resubmit, right? So I don't know if they they heard a discussion and
you know they were not um what happened with the last artist that we agreed upon because he said he used some of AI to show his example but I've seen his actual work which is beautiful and it seems comparable to what he said
he could reproduce. I I don't know if I missed that part of the meeting. the one that had like the old one that we voted on that had like the >> I don't know just didn't feel comfortable. Yeah, he was the one that um >> council felt
>> used AI, right? >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and he explained to me on the phone is that um he and he showed the the draft, you know, the first the sketch that it was very
>> but that's that was the idea and he put that in AI. >> I see. And the issue and and now I understand more the AI process for generating the image. Um so he submitted three designs the there was another one that submitted three designs.
>> So you cannot correct the design for AI. No >> resubmit again and you resubmit again. Um so so you cannot make the little >> unless you print it out and you >> so that would be a lot of work for him to actually
>> well I think what what he said is that yeah for initial submitter I mean that is what I would do and then I would I would expect to come to the board and then customize the up the talking you know because he he really um oh you
did Yeah, >> I tried. >> I tried. I tried. >> That's not the last one. I kind of for that you have people on here, but >> hopefully it works. >> You're welcome. I hope you guys can see
that. You need a magic I've never known how to print Excel properly, >> but I have to like pull the specifics. >> You know what? Might be good for us to see. >> Yeah, I can.
>> Not bad. My cousin's coming up. >> Oh, that's fun. >> Yeah. So, she and my nephew Let me tell everybody so that I don't know if everybody I have a PowerPoint for the designs, but I don't have what I did last time because I was not prepared
to have the the ranking done during the meeting is the designs with the narratives. >> That's okay. >> But you have access that you could I can probably
>> look at them now and then >> I'll take Mr. >> Fox. Why don't we go through this with the visual images and and then see if the narrative would make a difference.
>> Can you say you are the one right? >> Yeah. to have access to >> do we have the updated I'm already think >> and we took five from here and >> five from here took out. >> Oh, it didn't come out.
>> So, you took five from um >> corridor >> and application. >> Here it is. That's it's just the very bottom one. Change that to 0 to 5. Change quarter enhancement 0 to 15. >> Okay. >> And then experience with comparable
project 0 to 20. >> Zero to five. Which one? Zero to five. >> The very last one. >> Yeah. Thank you. Oh, I see. Yeah. >> Yeah. And they're on the grid. So, that's a
>> showcase. So, the post that y'all made for um this this mural um I can make a good one that will for you guys so that you can actually because I make social media post I can give it to you guys to make
it more sharable maybe get more attention >> we can put it in touch with our um >> but she's pretty good I mean not that we are not reaching even in the media there was there was several
um >> interesting >> articles about the discussion of AI and in the end they talk about it's it's community >> it was in it was in several media sources
>> I can even >> okay there's the setting >> there's the setting it was the first I know. It's just a big bike. And it's >> No, it's a big wheel, you guys. >> Big wheel. >> And for >> And that's the scale. The guy is just
for scale, right? >> Yeah. >> He's not part of it. >> He's not part of it. >> The gentleman who wrote the >> I don't get it. >> At least not until you read his description. He's not part of it. >> Oh, okay.
>> All right. So this is we're calling this one artist one. This is number one. >> Artist one. >> Okay. >> Here's an interesting question. Let's say we think none of them would be good. Do we have to select? >> No.
>> Okay. Just curious >> and actually council during the mural discussion and that is in in one of my points here recommendation of public board recommendation they ask the meeting if the board is aware
>> that they could not accept okay they could even change course okay they could not recommend >> got it you thinking the artists watched our um discussion >> I don't know I for the mural I don't know why they were not
>> this one don't feel um >> I mean I wonder how many people to reapply right >> if I had already done the design and I did not use AI >> I would sen reapply or change a little bit even with the input
>> that I've heard here and and reapply right >> for artist number one is there a description of the material That's the thing that I have to >> Yeah. an execution as well. >> What if what if we can we quiz them once and
then go back and do this? I don't know. I sort of want to kind of get kind of get a gut feeling and then reassess. >> Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. >> But but we want to go through the process with our scoring sheet. >> Yeah, we will. >> I'm just saying quick quick quick and
kind of get that gut feeling and we can go back and read. >> All right. What's your feeling, folks? >> I think we're not going to be able to score the last three. Uh yeah, the last we're not going to be be able to do that right now.
>> Exactly. because we need more information. >> That can then be our homework. Then we can do the the first three columns together here and then do the four. >> Yeah. >> And just keep our physical sheets and >> Okay.
>> Get those to Dolly before the next meeting. >> And we we want to do it thoroughly. So to do authority I I would have to do the same thing I did for the last time narrative >> and send it in a electronic.
>> Okay. Well my comment is this has nothing to do with floor and fauna. Right. >> Right. >> Pretty remote. >> I mean it's cute. >> Yeah. >> It's I mean I think it's Oh, I'm sorry. >> Oh go. I was just kids are gonna crawl
all over it. >> Right. But I mean that's kind of with sculptures anyway. Like you go to the sculpture garden at Manel and people are crawling over it or different ones. >> We don't want that. You know, if we don't want kids crawling and be like, "Here's a here's what are they called? I
forget what these are called. Here's a big wheel. You can't touch them. >> No, they're gonna people are going to crawl on it. >> It's like an invitation to go take a >> would have to make it like that. It would have to be like a playground piece. we would have to allow it. That
would be fun for a playground piece, but I don't know if this is an appropriate style. >> I think if it was like in a sculpture garden, >> like a true sculpture garden. This is this is on a sidewalk in um in in a
community on a thorough affair. >> All right. Do we need to take more time with this right now? >> All right. Ready to move on? >> May I interrupt just for a moment, >> please? Just my perspective for you all. If I were an artist listening to this
and there was something in that narrative that you all are not aware of, >> right? >> You're prejudging this. >> You're right. >> And in addition, you all because you haven't had a chance to come back individually. Right? >> Not saying that peer pressure doesn't
exist, that anyone will want to peer pressure, but someone may not feel uh well, I'm not going to make that big a deal because they they've said this. Be careful because I I think what you're doing now is there could be an argument made. You're not being fair and
equitable in the scoring process. >> Okay. >> Just for for what it's worth, I just wanted to throw that observation. Which is why we we think we we can't do the last four because we don't have the narrative. >> Well, but I think once you start the process >> Yeah.
>> It's like it's it's like putting a soup on to cook. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Once you start cooking, you can stop it, but it's already started. >> Consideration involves how the concept may include next to the narrative. So that's in that you put forward in your
artist that's also in your criteria. So it does need to be reflected in the discussion >> and I would say that the narrative actually as in any piece of art um makes gives more context right >> of course
>> gives the reason gives them my only issue with many of that um things that we are and with the mural as well that people are not listening to the theme you're completely escaping the theme that's the only that was surprising you
know uh with the sculptures as well but the narratives actually give a beautiful context sometimes to why they are proposing what they are proposing. >> So in the interest of being more equitable as Dr. was saying, "Can I move
that we go to like allow you all to prepare the presentation as you have in the past and just completely wait to fill it out digitally for the next meeting and perhaps use the rest of our meeting time to talk about ways that maybe with like Amber's input with Lisa
can make it more um emphasized about the concern about thematic things for these calls." I know that was a whole lot but >> no it was I so this was asked in the mural as well um if people did not
understand the scene >> we did not have that problem before >> seemed clear enough >> yeah I thought it was for the mural as well >> but they don't always >> that is my world
>> so I'm used with that But like perhaps like we can make some sort of like flyers that's like an addendum to the current call out about like >> when the arts board is talking about community connection in our calls and
have like maybe one or two visual examples of like along with like some sort of text just to be like this is what we're talking about. Um that might help. I I can't say what >> is that conducive to what what if you
want to have a an open >> I I know as an artist like I'm going to be like oh they put time into actually spelling out like visually like what they're looking for. So it's not me just like throwing my hat the ring of like
seems nebulous. Maybe what I bring might be the thing they're looking for. I just know on the artist end, I would appreciate like that clarification, especially if we just had this big to-do with all the stuff with the AI of I
think some artists might be very wary to be like, whoa, I just saw this whole, you know, to-do and it's like that seems there might be the impression of like, whoa, there's they're very guarded about, you know, things and so I'm just
not going to I think that might be part of what's happening with some artists. I don't know if I don't think it's all stuff might just literally be like, well, I wasn't good enough when I was like that. Everybody comes in different
temperaments. Um, but I don't think it would hurt to more like have a pointed flyer or PSA. I don't think it would be a PSA. It was just about like these are what the criteria look like that we the
verbiage that we consistently use in our calls so that people can be like ah I get the vibe. >> You mean like pictures >> like pictures could be a part of it. >> So something more simplified probably.
>> So I think that's like providing too much information. Um, and that's just my I I'm just going by other examples of other RFPs or or that I've seen from other communities like
>> I I I'm just >> I feel like that could be leading people down, right? >> And then they're go rather than getting something imaginative, they could be focused on, oh, now we have to, you know what I mean? I feel like it could take away from >> and it doesn't have to have the visual. I'm just addressing the problem of like
we haven't had any resubmission. So then if we don't do that, >> that's not the only solution by any means. Like >> what can we do >> to >> reignite interest in submitting before the end of March so that we don't, >> Lord forbid, have to do another
>> could we call each person that submitted and say, "Hey, just so you I mean I would volunteer to call. Hi, you know, just so you know, we had a we had a resubmitt process and we hope you're still interested. >> Send a letter email to them, right? It was in the
format of a letter, but it was an email can send it again and >> it can also be a form of protest. >> Yeah, what they're they're doing. >> Yeah. >> And and also I'm just bringing that up.
I it that could be what they're this is their response. >> I would think though that an artist would be happy that they wouldn't that they were looking for something that was not AI. >> No. >> No. >> Um things have changed abruptly in a short amount of time. >> Yeah.
>> Um I'm just again shocked one in particular because it was quite obvious that one did not use AI. >> Well, but but there was another one right there that was that complained about >> Right. Right. and and and they thought it was
>> so I thought you know that person would submit and they wouldn't even have to change anything if they hadn't used the eye to begin with >> right >> no >> so um Dr. Bower, what what what's your
opinion in this situation or what what the response has been? >> I think that the press had some >> less than positive >> saw that. >> Yeah, I think the artistic community particularly in Semino County is very
small and I I can share this. So, at the last board meeting that SCAC had and our board has about 14 or 15 directors it serves and they're spread out from
traditional artists to art teachers, community members and and a broad diverse background. Um, I brought up the point about AI because I thought it was a very good thing that we had not discussed in our call for artist policy and it generated a very interesting
discussion and at the end of the day the thing that was very interesting to me having listened to the discussions here was that there was actually a split in the feelings between >> who thought it was acceptable to have some usage and who didn't. And granted,
this was a very impromptu um sample sample size, but a lot of the feedback I got is for SCAC's call for artists because I was talking do we did we want to institute a ban the comments that were made where we're
going to kill our stable of artists that we work with if we can't use any AI because it's it's become I don't want to say it's an industry standard But it is a tool that is relied on a tremendous amount. I think if you had a
similar situation going on with this call for artists combined with the press that highlighted what was going on. I don't want to say that the call could have been tainted. >> But I certainly think given the fact you
haven't had a single resubmitt that's very troubling to me and I have to ask why. Um, for us on the county level when we do these type of things, and I'm sure for those of you who work with artists, it's very similar. We have a very good
relation, we work hard to maintain a very good relationship with a number of artists that we work with on a continuing basis. Some projects they're a good fit for, some they aren't. um even if those artists are not a good fit for a project because for example we're
going to be curating a show in July at the county museum and I've already started to reach out. I've had them tell me well okay I'm not going to be a good fit for this but I can tell XYZ about it and get it out and we actually did have for this particular project I
had someone from the Florida Sculptures Guild send it out that way. So people talk and and I think what my advice would be assuming this isn't some fluke and there's not going to be a
deluge of of proposals that come into the mural. Um it's not working as it is right now. So the question is how do we make it work? And I think it has to go back to um figuring out how artists may have
felt disenfranchised over this AI thing and show them, hey, we're we're humans. We're we're going through this process. We're a volunteer board. We want to make this better. Let's get some feedback and let's do what we need to do because we need you
and we want you to be a part of this process. And I think the whole country is is dealing with this right now. >> Oh yeah. No, that is discussions. >> I'm sure a FAPA it's going to be a topic
of discussion um in in April, but um I just want a clarification. Um the council the city council said no AI can be a part. >> So this not come did not came from uh us from from the public on board. It came
from council >> council >> and it came from um people qu council questioning um why should we accept why should we accept it um um
AI generated art. So it was interesting the artist that won he used that as a sketch right and he said and we have examples of of work that we did and he and he said well I couldn't finalize the
project with the board >> and in in but that was not acceptable for council. So, >> is there a full-time or part-time graphic artist employed by the >> No.
>> Well, >> they just have a communications person which is it has been recent in the recent years. >> Yeah. In a in a large company or institution, a graphic artist probably
is using AI every day for that kind of work. I think the difference is that in that situation they they have work that they've we've seen in the past that they can do and and this what we're I think what council and what the board is
worried about is that they use that and then they can't >> they can't follow up. >> Right. >> Well, I don't think that was the I think the issue was there are two things. one is is using technology to you know to sketch up to do you know
that that's one thing I think arches you know graphic designers use that the other thing is to have AI generating generating the the design that is a different thing that you don't need an artist to do that right
>> you just yeah you tell it to >> that was the I don't think we ran that risk. I don't think the >> that we had um everybody had arched background you know so I don't think we were there so
that was a discussion at council that they wanted to ensure that design was produced by um by a human capabilities >> that's that comes from the top we have
to execute that. >> So what Dr. Bower said is is going back and reassessing and building those partnerships with the artists and trust again and figuring
this out. Um because bottom line, I mean, no matter what we submit to council, if they they they said it, >> yeah, >> plain and simple. I'm I I you know, we just have to figure out within those parameters what we're able to do now and
also figure out what's happened with those artists. Well, I think we can. One suggested that we could wait until the end of the call if we really did not receive any new submitts and I I can have I have no
problem reaching out to the those who applied before >> to have a feedback from them, right? I don't feel like that I should call them now to submit because we again we are not forcing anybody to submit anything, right? We are not and and especially I
received two emails that were not were new email new people new people no not anybody that submitted before complaining that the city's requiring people or asking people to submit designs for free.
So >> that's true. That's a good point. >> Take care of if we adopted the same thing in the future. >> So we won't know for sure until the end of the month. uh I think we can
make the connections that are possible in the mural community to again make them aware of it and encourage submissions. We can't force them. Uh if we do get a very small number
uh then as Dr. of our said it may be have that be a tainted search tainted call and then we'll have to decide what to do. One option that we could go at that point is to do the process that
Xavier is bringing to our attention and that is a two-step process that starts with an RFQ and then identifies three to five artists and then goes to an RFP
from there. um that would most likely be reassuring for us that the artist is doing their own work uh to satisfy the city council.
>> So I mean that could be a plan B. >> It's another level of communication. I I have some ideas if none of this works out. couple I know that we've already reached out to high schools um the art the art our classes and high schools
right for it was for something else that was >> you could always reach out to the schools and like your art uh give them the requirements for this and see if the students want to come up with something maybe they could do something like that
and we can see what their proposals could be I mean it's just an option another one this is a far-fetched, but I've seen it done at Disney where it's a community painting when it's a paint by number. Everything's in cute like a
little little squares and they color in certain colors to make that a paint by number picture and we have a community day. They all come out and it'll be kind of, you know, some things there. It'll be fun sort of festival kind of like and everyone
contributes to that because brings the community together. I know that sounds weird and a little farfetched but I don't think it sounds weird. It's just it's another project right because some of it still has to do with design. >> Yeah. >> Right. So the issue that we are having is not
>> is the design right so this is still an option that you know can be done with the school for these for the murals. I think we put a limitation of age, >> right? >> And the sculpture I think would be too much of a a project for um
>> No, he's just talking about the mural. I'm talking about >> the mural um I think the age right now it would be a limitation. >> Okay. >> Because we have >> we would have to make >> Yeah, we have to make process. >> Okay. Right. >> But still like Yeah. For the future that
be fun. I like to have the kids the future coming together and then like presidents coming together. So we want past, present, future. I don't know. It's kind of symbolic but >> split into three sections. >> So I have a question and a comment.
>> Was there ever a press release done announcing not the call but announcing the project? >> Announcing the project. >> Which one are you talking about? >> Either or. Oh, okay. >> Um, one of the things that I will tell
you because I talk about you guys all the time. I talk about you when I'm in Sanford. I talk about you when I'm at the county services building, the school board. I go and I'm talking and time and time again when I am finding doing what? When I lead the city borders,
>> doing what? One of the suggestions SCAC has had great success with and this is something that is within the ability of the comm's officer for the city is doing a press release saying hey these are the projects the public art board is working
on. This is what the public art board is. This is what the projects are working on and just not doing them as calls but drumming up publicity for the mural and the sculpture. Why these two projects were chosen. why these have
been given priority, why they're being done right now. >> Because if you can get some I know at the very least aside from community news, the Herald would run a piece. You guys can get this in something like the Sentinel or one of the news channels.
There's your free press right there. And then you have >> So in a way we've had that now with with the discussion with AI, right? >> But in a what I would argue might be considered less than a positive way. All right. Did you did you find that that's not positive though? >> Yes, I did.
>> From from the perspective of an artist who may never have worked with Oto before, they're going to look at that and they're going to say there's a lot going on there and I don't know if I'm ready to get involved, >> which is is is an unfair judgment. So, what I would say and and I know because
one of the things I've been um I've been also trying to promo the the people who might want to get involved with possibly res city residents serving on this board. People don't know. I mean, Teresa, you know this. People don't know. A press release is a very simple
thing. You might get some big bang for your buck on it. You know, like this is what's up with Art Nobito right now. And then once that goes out from the city that can then be populated in in other
places like on the capital and also with with the conference in April. >> Does Stanford have a newspaper? >> Yeah. >> Can I I have a question u with the mural the the sculpture and the mural.
um we our current projects what's down the line because our budget is way small um what's left in it and I know that we feed from different departments or especially wreck but what do we in the future do we have coming down the pike
do you think >> well we haven't discussed that yet right >> yeah but I was just wondering like any I'm I'm anything because this is it's already been out there I'm wondering do you're talking about sending out a press release. Does that make Oto not look
good if we're already >> um I don't think so because it's it's out there in OTO. It's not out there as much outside of the city and that's where you're that's where your artist pool is coming from or some of the artist pool. >> Can I I mean you're con I mean I know
you're connected with a lot of different artists. Have you heard anything Xavier >> talking about this? I've shared it like once at the >> beginning. I haven't like confessions of leader. I have not like individually
like sent it to friends of mine who are muralists mainly because I already know one did apply. Um but like outside of like I as an artist haven't cold called a muralist and been like hey I met you this past weekend briefly. Want to
apply? I am more than willing to do that and I'll do that through instant just you know share um the art call. I can't guarantee that they will um you know want to apply by the 31st. Um but going back to what Dr. was saying
about like rebuilding like trust with perhaps some of these artists. I think um like one thing if worst case scenario if we do not get another submission we go back to the feedback stage that you mentioned I think kind of adopting or at least
examining like the proposal for the RFQS I think them seeing like oh the city of Oto is like listening and they like learned from this whole kurfuffle that has happened um and It's not anybody's
fault. It's just learning as this monster that can do good things called AI is um like coming into our lives. Um if they see that we adopt like a very clear two-step policy that addresses the concern that you got about the man, I'm
not getting paid for this speculative work and I'm like losing time that I could be applying to other grants or you know these are the things that artists are doing. We're we're looking for money. Um if like there's a guaranteed like we just you don't it's no new work in the first round. It's just you
providing excent examples of your work and then if we you were chosen as one of our three to five to render there will be a small and obviously huge asterisk. We have to look at the budget to see what a small stipend to draft a bespoke
design um looks like, but there will be some um compensation if if they're serious about it. They'll see us being serious about like, wow, we really didn't mean to like hurt the art community or turn
people off from like creating in this space. Quite the opposite is what we want to do as a board. So if they see us like taking steps to do that that may go away and like not only rebuilding it with the people who know about what's happening in Oto but combined with like
a press release getting it beyond our borders to other you know adjacent towns that >> makes sense like your two step requirement >> and basically are you saying that we would look at the person's work ahead of
time to determine if they were be something that we'd be interested in. >> So RFQ is basically you you would have a call. >> Okay. >> But like you you label it specifically as an RFQ which means you are not creating anything new. You are just
providing us examples like your resume the things we're asking for in that complete piece. um examples of your work, your experience that and let's say we get 60 like going back to that logo
>> um we get 60 in the first round of that we together as a board have a meeting where we kind of do what we >> done before but instead of looking at like a custommade design for the sculpture for the mural we are just looking at maybe we limit it we say for
in the RFQ each artist um can provide had five max examples of their work. That way it doesn't get crazy. We go through and look at the examples of their work. From that pool, we I said
three to five here. We can change that number, but we pair it down in that first wave to let's say 15 that we feel really interested. This is where the budget for the wanted to compensate comes in. That's why it's usually a
smaller number. Um, so let's say like out of that pool of 60, we're really interested in five um, people's like styles of work. They would move on to the RFP round where we then compensate them, say $100 for a tailor made design
of what would this mural, what would the sculpture look like that you would create in this space. That way if we already have implemented the you know still waiting with city council about like no AI like ban,
>> we only have a pool of five to like very clearly communicate like we would rather see your rudimentary sketch than you feeding that sketch into midjourney or something into like show us that. And
since we've already seen in the first round examples of your finished work, we have a more >> I get it >> like holistic idea of what you can actually execute. >> So proof that we need proof to see that they are adequate for the job basically
that they have skills. >> Yeah. We're getting that early before we ask them to do a tailor made thing. Yeah. And at what point do we give them our theme and what we're looking for it right at the very beginning or does that come after we >> after you you pair it down to like the
five people you want to see do a design and then they get the complete >> I still like the guy that we chose initially like I know he fit into the AI design but I saw his work and it was beautiful. >> Yeah. I do have a the one point is um we
talked about people who might not have >> experience and that deters people who you know are trying to submit something who are not um you know who did not go to art school or who did not who have
not had you know any type of examples you know and I know one in in particular so I'm just bringing that up that was one of the things um that we focused on was that people don't actually have to be, you know, have had the experience.
That's what was submitted. >> Some of them I mean it still have some sort of portfolio when you think >> even even if it's not like a mural per se, like just your basic like drawing and sketching. Yeah, that could be totally that could be be in the um the
RFQ round submitted as >> experience and we maybe we just have to be a better job of like clearly saying like we're not only if it's a call to murals we're not only looking for examples of your mural experience if you
have painted or draw like maybe we just need to verbalize that a bit better but yeah >> right Yeah. So, all right. Any further discussion? >> So, on the sculpture, let me just
clarify. Um, we are not going to continue seeing the rest. >> So, that's going to be >> curious. Can we just look at him right quick and not talk about >> I'd rather have the like Dr. Robert saying have a little context which I'm the same for that I did before
>> with the sign the narrative. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Right. And this will this will also allow everyone to just >> Oh yeah. >> So you're going to be asking for the scores by when?
Few days before April >> April 15 >> is our next meeting. >> Um >> so we'll so we'll have that homework. Uh please also uh read over
Xavier's suggestion for the future. Um is there um any other information from your standpoint? >> Yes. So the the number four was the public arts recommendation. That's what council members asked me to remind the
board that they had freedom to you know reject a result of um cultural artist they don't feel comfortable or to ask questions and they asked me if you all feel comfortable
expressing your opinions and I think so I can ask the board if they >> can our recommendation be that We invite everyone that submitted to our next meeting and we can discuss the AI like that that they that they
used and that >> or does council 100% be to to to show to council like they can they can pro do this work >> or is that not the issue with council?
I think the issue with council and you can listen to the the discussion was that um that some designs were generated by AI. >> Yeah. >> And they did not feel comfortable with that. So they wanted to um send it back
so that we could re repost the call to artist with a clear direction that no AI should be used. >> Okay. So that's >> and I talked about some in some cities they they have a percentage you know the
people would have to disclose that how much do you use did you use to enhance do you use to you know and they said no let's make it that no AI so that was a direction >> okay >> we can have in the future a board
session with council to discuss this issue further if that is, you know, >> absolutely have a better grasp of it as >> exactly >> time come, you know, cuz everybody's grappling with this. My daughter's an
art teacher and she says they're grappling with it, you know, and um so I think things will get clearer. >> Our teachers, >> right? I also think council feels this is our responsibility.
they got they have theirs but they think they feel that this is our responsibility to get this defined and figured out. Um I think they don't want to I don't think they want to spend the time doing that to be perfectly honest.
That's my opinion just from observation of them and what I think this would be just a whole other minutia and trying to get to move forward in figuring things out with this situ with with defining this situation.
>> Yes. For this call the direction was clear from council. Right. >> Right. >> Now it was also discussed that at one point we can we can try to propose AI policy. A lot of cities are discussing that not only for art
>> but how to generate content um and uh and how to make sure that you know that we are not copying you know content from elsewhere. So this is something that the board can also propose to discuss right. >> Well when he asked if we were
comfortable did he mean comfortable in this meeting? Yeah, if everybody's comfortable >> in general with their ability to >> no providing their opinions if there is you know if everybody feels comfortable
if this group everybody feels comfortable um providing their opinions and discussion I think so because we have you know a good discussion always but it's up to the board members to say that not me
that's my perception but They wanted to ensure and empower you to provide the opinion because they they what you were saying they want us to make those decisions
>> and feel comfortable doing that. >> Okay. >> And my last item is the arts and chamber. So the next one is going to be Hagrid school high school that and they're going to bring um the theme that they chose were
they have they will have two things in different styles and it's going to be um framed not framed it's going to be um canvas and um so that was proposed by the the teacher who was adorable. He was
very energetic but also he did not um hear about um the call to artist that I told him and I asked him to advertise and he he was not aware and he's here
right very close to us. It's not in the city limits, but it's it's in. So, um I was surprised by that, but now he knows and he was help trying to help us um spread the word, but this is coming on
the on April 6. So, that's the plan. So, um, Kathleen's happy already removed her awards from the chambers. And so, we should have a ceremonial item on, um, April 6th to unveil then the
>> the chickens >> the chickens and it's going to be, I think, 30. That's what he told me. 30 different sizes. >> I bet they're very excited. >> I think there are six to six students. One high school or how many? just one
>> Hagerty >> Hagert High School did not respond as quickly. They are still >> for the next one. >> Okay. >> But um >> is there a specific time? >> It'll be a council meeting >> April 6:30.
>> That's the council meeting. >> Yeah, you we you'll receive the invite that. And um there are 66 students that had um this challenge and he's going to choose of 30
to bring to the table. >> Oh, it's going to be fun. >> It's going to be hard. He's got to cut in half. >> Well, if I can also um something that we can rotate, right? But everybody
>> that's my that's my report and I'll just um share with you all Kathleen sent me um this invitation. She will have an exhibition starting next week.
>> Did she sell any? >> She did not sell any sales. I'm surprised. >> You're welcome. >> Do we know where this is? >> It's on Bumby.
>> Thank you. >> Everybody. >> It's It's right off of like >> right by TGA. That's why. >> Yeah. You go past TG on Bumby and it's like right It's between TG and 408. It's on the left hand side. >> It's right there. >> Very nice.
It's a nice It's a nice >> Speaking of exhibitions, uh I don't know if you're aware of that, but at the Norton Simon Museum in West Palm, there's a a rare exhibition with um
uh Vermeier and and um Rembrandt that is from private collections and it's only there until March 29th. I'm making a field trip next week.
>> Looking for a road trip in West. >> They got the money. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> they could have those kind of shows. >> Yeah, right. >> Um, are there any other items to mention today?
>> No. But in that case we will adjourn and thank you all very much and we have homework email. >> I thought you sent your email. Oh. Oh. Hey,
hey, hey.