##VIDEO ID:49PzjCFP--4## e e this is a test of the city of Pac audio system e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e welcome to the city of palaka special call commission meeting on August 6 2024 at 6:30 p.m. I'm calling this meeting to order Miss CR could you read the notice please thank you so much the Commissioners Tammy mccal Justin R Campbell Rufus will Jones and Rufus Borum you're hereby notified that a special called meeting of the Paca City commission is hereby called to be held on August 6th 2024 at 6:30 pm. at City Hall 21 or Second Street par Flor 32177 the purpose of the meeting is regarding the items tabled at the commission's July 25th special called meeting please govern yourselves accordingly sign robertto MCA mayor thank you is Pastor malber no um invocation thank you commissioner Campbell if you would join me in prayer Heavenly Father God we thank you for this day we thank you for your grace and we thank you for your mercy God we ask as we go forth with this meeting that you give us the wisdom the knowledge and the understanding to make the best decisions we also ask that the words of our mouth and the meditation of our hearts be acceptable in your sight we pray this prayer in your name amen amen thank you [Music] Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all Miss CR roll call please commissioner Tammy mccal here commissioner Justin Campbell present commissioner will Jones pres commissioner Rufus Borum pres mayor Robbie C pres all members present and accounted for and we have a quum thank you um I'm going to open the floor to public comments public comment is limited to three minutes and no action will be taken on the items public comment is an opportunity for citizens to voice their thoughts and concerns on non-agenda topics to the commission this will be done in a respectful manner without personal defamation and is not an opportunity for discussion or debate I do have one con Miss Shanker please give your name and address for the record good evening my name is Shelley Shanker my place of residence is 287 East River Road in East Paka and my place of business is 712 St John's Avenue in Historic downtown Paca I'd first like to state that this format of taking public comment at the beginning of the agenda impedes the public from responding appropriately to timely matters such as tonight's agenda item essentially the public has to offer comments responding to issues that were discussed in the last meeting on this topic and most of your constituents do not have the luxury of the kind of time it takes to keep up with these topics that leaves the public with the skewed views and incomplete stories published in our local paper or bantered about on social media we're left with stories of disgruntled employees writing letters to our City commissioners but not the pre story of how the Commissioners were so eager to get the new city manager in place so that he could dismiss the Troublesome employee stories and commentary of blatant disregard of the Commissioners by removing GS GPS trackers but not the background of how there has never been a GPS tracker put on a city vehicle for an employee at this level especially one that's taken home to a family home or kept in a personal location and public records are made of this nor the followup story of the GPS tracker being replaced by Mr Bell while the matter is re-evaluated we are left with unflattering images stories and innuendos using words like absenteeism hostile work environment and utter contempt for the commission and its Authority all the while we have diligent Commissioners bringing up that there has been no over usage of the days off by Mr Bell according to his contract and as of the last meeting on this matter there had been no filed gces with HR about Mr Bell and that it was our elected officials disregarding Mr Bell's attempts to fulfill their requests for time and meetings but that wouldn't make a very good headline apparently the last time I spoke to this commission a resident ahead of me quoted a Kenny Rogers song and I have been cursed with it running through my head ever since but I truly believe we have missed the most important message from the song because every hand a winner and every hand's a loser if we play our cards right Mr Bell has the ability to help Paca reach all of its current goals and help set new goals for our future we can all win when he get when we get past this probationary period perhaps we can become vested in his success rather than in looking for reasons for his for a dismissal when we stop trying to find or make this a losing hand we might actually realize that Mr Bell is an ace that we can keep is there anybody else here for public comment seeing no one closed public comment and on to regular business discussion Direction mayor mayor C I'm so sorry I know it's past the time for public comment but I did just receive a yellow speakers card from the finance director um it's um God public comment on agenda item topic blank so I don't know if it's for a regular public comment or for a specific topic okay Mr spell sorry because I didn't get this in time I I would like no no you please come up to the podium and give your name and address for the record thank you my name jaob you want to pass Jacob spells 5019 CR Avenue okay and you would like to pass yes I would like to pass on that until the end of the meeting because I don't I want to hear the contents of everything that's being said in this meeting then I would like to present my comment can I do that public comments on now but because the topic I can't understand you public comment is open now and actually just closed because there are specific topics we will consider that at that time let's see how the meeting goes now is there will I have the opportunity the luxury to speak after the business at hand has been taking place again seem like I should be granted that opportunity point to the agenda public comment is is was now um if you want to speak later I'm not sure that will work out but we'll have to see what the topics are and how it I certainly would appreciate it thank you the point of clarification there is an opportunity for discussion or a public comment is there not doing ing the actual items that are being discussed there are this is this is for the public comment now is for non-agenda items well and so I'm just saying the public comments closed so that will provide the opportunity because we are on one topic we haven't got a full agenda and I think that's what he's asked okay so yes okay I'm sorry um on to regular business discussion Direction authorizing the execution of retain agreement with the firms Sniff and Spelman um Miss CR could you read it please first certainly thank you so much resolution 2024 r153 a resolution of the city of Pac authorizing the execution of retention agreement with Sniff and and smellman the for the purpose of an employment investigation amending the fiscal year 2023 24 budget providing an effective date and providing for scer SS thank you Miss commissioner mccal I'm going to turn over to you as the point person and then you can go from that all right to with giving the uh content of what we're about to discuss and how we did it last time with respect to Mr Bale um would like to hear if the commission wished him to be present with regards to this particular matter as he was not um a part of this particular um discussion when we previously brought this to the commission thank you yes Mr Bell could you please excuse yourself and go out um that the door to the right please my question is that why is he Le I just ask I didn't ask him to be for consistency's sake we did this but we did it wrong last right I think it's not one second legally I don't know if he need to be leaving the space we will ask we need to get a an attorney's opinion excuse me we'll ask Missy to come up and give her thoughts legally on that and please introduce yourself uh good evening my name is Susan erley I have been retained to provide you with legal advice regarding employment matters so I'm not advising you on matters involving the appropriateness of whether Mr Bell stays or goes I would uh I don't know what that is all about frankly okay um I don't have any problem with him staying but that's fine well and I and I'll State the reason of me asking um the commission that was something that we did last time and if it was not friendly I don't have a problem with it but fair and consistency that's the only reason if he wish not to be removed that's perfectly fine but again just with keeping in what we've done last time we did not have legal present the last time so if it was done improper that thank you for the correction but again I wanted to bring that forth because that was what happened or transpired last time so if he does not wish to be removed I'm perfectly fine with that as well but I was just trying to keep with what happened on our last meeting but again if that is not friendly to hit the request I'm perfectly fine let's roll okay with that said um is that the will of the commission for Mr Bell to stay this time I think everybody's fine with that and we'll move on um Miss commissioner mccal so I'm gonna we have a motion on the floor right a res she what what did Sun just read tell me uh I wantan to did we let that we had conversation about uh retaining them the last time am I right did we did have a conversation and what was the direction of the commission basically taed everything because we didn't have legal that okay yes all right so I don't know if it's and also in the last meeting commissioner Campbell um asked me to provide a summary of the conversation that conversations that were brought to me and um make contact with our employment attorney and move to move these items forward so what I did rather than providing a summary I reached back out to the employees and asked if they were willing to write statements I felt that it would be best coming from them versus a summary I advised them that I would be bringing those statements back to the commission on our next commission meeting I didn't know that we will be calling a special meeting today so the statements that we have that were brought in I have them available before I get there um I did get two emails from an employee who has identified herself and I have copies I do have copies of those that I would like to provide to the commission please as well as our employment attorney if I can get these to the commission mat thank you is that okay yes now as I continue on I want to ask is it possible madam mayor that we have a recess to kind of read over these please um the attorney the attorney has a copy of the statements well the attorney is kind of De brief on what's going on and she's ready to kind of give to give us some guidance but the reason these are open you you you'll see what I'm going these are open because they were sent to me and that the person identified themselves these are statements that I just received on tonight in the commission room I have no idea who turned these in these are statements from the employees they're sealed and they were brought in so if we can if I may yes go ahead can these seals be broken and we have these copied by our city clerk and provided to the commission before um I did ask again I did ask for guidance in this process because I wanted it to be fair again um I don't know who which ones turned these in they um were very concerned about turning them in and making sure that they were kep confidential so that they wouldn't have any repercussions for their actions did you say this was okay yes commission Campbell I want to be very sensitive in addressing this but the matter that's before us are two items which is discussion and Direction with regards to the execution of the retainer agreement with the firm that's been provided and then we have an option to discuss the resolution authorizing the extension of Mr Bale's contract the matters that have been provided before us is new with respect to those who have submitted it um I want to be on track that we're accepting this at the appropriate time we have documents that we are asking to be open in a public meeting I don't know if this needs to be accepted as an emergency item because of what's being presented to us but I want to make sure as we proceed through this meeting that we are following the proper protocol and that we are not doing anything that could screw conscrew the conversation that we're set here to have at this present moment so again I'm very much sensitive to what we have and what's about to happen however I want to make sure that as we progress that we're progressing in a manner that is appropriate and that we discuss even if this needs to become an emergency item that it's done at the appropriate time because at this meeting what has been publicized is Direction and discussion with two particular matters that have been tabled to it wasn't a Time certain but the special call meeting was implemented I mean was called but again as we proceed I want to be able to proceed accordingly and properly and certainly um in terms of this would you please um kind of answer the question and adding it as an emergency Motion versus discussion about this now well my understanding is that you all had a meeting on July 25th and in that meeting there was a discussion about what are these concerns with Mr Bell one of the challenges that you all have and I um is that Mr you have one employee who reports to you Mr Bell and one of the challenges for Mr Bell is that he reports to a public body and you can only discuss his performance his concerns Etc um in a public meeting meeting that's just the very public nature of TR transparency and government in Florida so um these complaints that were brought to you it's my understanding that the employees were not comfortable bringing them to HR and that wouldn't make sense ordinarily if there's a problem in employment um an employee will bring their complaint to HR and the HR person will address those concerns and take them up the chain of command but here HR reports to Mr Bell HR is not going is not in a position to conduct any investigation into actions of Mr Bell my understanding is that these complaints and I realize you all asked for these before the complaintants were not comfortable coming forward because they were in fear that Mr Bell would terminate them uh they're in fear of retaliation so what you have in this situation is you've got five employees that you've already lost um in this city you've got other employees that are submitting concerns and complaints and we have recommended that you hire a firm to investigate these concerns that firm can address these concerns with the employees they would then go to Mr Bell and hear from him as to what his side of the story is that way the rights would be everybody's rights would be protected and you as the commission would have the information that you need to make decisions on whether Mr Bell is doing a fine job whether he needs to improve in certain areas are you going to lose more employees are you concerned about those things you've lost five so far some of them have said that their part of the reason they left was because of the new city manager and so my understanding is at the last meeting you wanted to know more about what these conern concerns are and I I think you've been given I just am seeing these for the first time myself what the concerns are so at this point uh you need to either decide whether you're going to retain this firm to do an investigation or what you're going to do um that answer my question yet it did not answer my question because I was asking more specifically with regards to the information and the sensitivity of the information giving us the opportunity yes we've been provided with the additional information in this platform and even in the event that we do take a um a recess that it gives us the ability to inquire if there's anything that we need to inquire about or potentially meet with those said um individuals that have presented us and then again just to take it to the next level I'm a tad bit concerned that we're bringing additional information to a meeting to discuss the potential investigation of the city manager and then we're being provided in a meeting where the information I don't think that is okay um because again if we are going into speaking about the alleged uh environment Mr Bell is present so it doesn't give us the ability to keep those employees safe for lack of better words um so that's the reason why I'm wanting to make sure that the method as we move forth is okay because again those now become one public record and two those employees are now exposed um so in making sure that we stick to what we are here for um are we to address those matters first as you stated with making sure that we talk about retaining or whoever it is that we wish to retain and then the extension and then going into accepting these matters as a ex um as a an Emergency item wherein after we've discussed it we then can ask Mr Bale to leave the room I don't think that will be against anything because we are then going into some very sensitive um a very sensitive matter so I want to make sure as we go through that we're going through in thinking about our employees but also thinking about who we have here in the room and the potential of what can come as a result of us now receiving prior to this was my original request my original request was to be provided with this additional information then when we spoke more we talked about the sensitivity and we talked about the protection hence the reason why then I came back and said just give us a highlevel abstract as to what are some of the concerns so the change is a change that we know about once we got here and if that's the way we trusted commissioner mcal to lead and that's the way that she desired I have nothing against that but in the platform of what we are I want to make sure that again we are fair and we are are concise when it comes down to this additional information and the method that it came to us and into the platform in which it came to us that's my concern of course it still has to be addressed it still needs to be talked about but then again let's just consider the method in which it came to us Jes commissioner mcal what were you first no you were okay you were first you asked for a summary of my words of what employees were saying I provided the commission with the summary and it wasn't enough and I tried to do it in a manner to protect the employees so I approached the employees nothing new nothing different and asked them if they were willing to come forth with a statement so I felt that a state their their state their words were more substantiated or substantial would provide substance to versus a summary it's their words um the employees felt comfortable and they feel comfortable with this going into record um I think they're Anonymous um they were willing to write it and write their um statements anonymously so they're fine with it and this is how they would like for it to to be done I did receive guidance for employment attorney if she would like to speak however you call it I'll let borm go first and then we'll go back to M um I agree with uh commissioner uh Campbell on the manner and the way the information has been presented uh I don't think that it should be presented in this uh meeting uh because it was supposed to be information that the commission should be aied to before it hit the general public we need to at least know I know in the past again like I've spoken to you Miss early and um and I've said uh numerous times before that generally when employees have um uh issues or concern in the workplace there are statements made uh written prior to with whatever accusations uh there may be with dates times as to when instances happened um but if you know not giving any specific details that you know just makes me uncomfortable with even accepting uh even a moving forward with a uh selecting a firm because again I like to see I like to have the information prior to with the statements prior to now we just just getting new things generated to us just now all of a sudden so I just have a issue and concern with with that and again we need to stay to the two topics that we have tonight and we can capture the information the additional information that we have and the commission can look it over and see what you know we need to move forward with as it relates to that new information I have a question commissioner Pas uh do grievances have to be oral or written and if you can answer the question if this needs to be added as an um emergency item missley on this West verb and in regards to added as an emergency item we did again the request was made at this last special call meeting for these abstract personally I thought it was risky and could Tain the investigation but that was a consensus of the group and so now we have to wait I I'm not clear on why do we need to have an emergency item to add it to the agenda to go forward as the Commissioners know I was not here at the last meeting my understanding was primarily commissioner Campbell you had asked for written statements um and I believe that this is in response to that please correct me if I'm wrong I was I don't I want to be clear and I don't want to appear as if we're going back and forth or we're in a disagreement of any sorts I believe that this matter is a very sensitive matter and it needs to be handled with caution and I believe that we've had healthy dialogue as a result of hence the reason why we postponed it because we did not have that representation but again I think that as we move forth giving the manner I again I want to be clear that with given the information you don't even have the you don't even have the information that would allow we just got the information so I'm a tad bit apprehensive to move forward with you just receiving information we just receiving information and us being able to make the best decision based on that information that we just received I did for some type of summary summary because in the event it appeared at that time and I'm just speaking on appearance and I'm not the only one that felt that way I've had people who watched the meeting at that time when we first got the information or we first got the request it appeared to be one person as we progressed it appeared to be an additional person in which that additional person whom we thought or could be consider could could have been considered stated otherwise so then again that's where I made the request so that it's clear what are we dealing with so that we know in the scope of us hiring a firm that we're covering all of our bases and that we're covering all of those who wish to to come forth with statements again I'm very sensitive to this matter I take it very seriously so as we progress I want us to be able to progress with as much as information because again if we say we want to move forth with the execution of the contract and there are things that are part of the contract with a firm that is not a part of the scope that we wish to have a part of the scope then we do ourself an injustice because again we were just provided additional information and you as the labor attorney I feel that you should be privy to the concern so that in the event that we do ask questions we don't have to be postponed or we don't have to say allow me the opportunity to look into that if that is going to be the case we're going into a recess well we had the request for re a recess so that we can provide the information there's no telling what's in those letters so again I want to make sure when I ask for the abstract I ask for the abstract so that we would be able to wrap our minds around some of the accusations that come versus the verbal or if it's written but there is also when we're dealing with thearch hierarchy of protocol if there is a written grievance that is to go to whomever at this person is to go to their supervisor and if it came to the supervisor which could be any one of the Commissioners then there's a duty of that person to do an investigation and provide us with something of substance that we're able to go after I asked the information were there any procedures and policies there are not that's our flaw that's something that we have to correct but in order for us to handle this properly without necessary procedures in place we have to be cautious as we moving forward that we cross our tees that we dot our eyes yes again I did ask for an abstract and that was the sensus of the commission at that time but again if commissioner mccal who we deem to be the person that allows to take the stance change I I'm okay with that but what I'm not okay is receiving the information in this platform in this meeting where we came here thinking we were going to discuss two items two items only my request was or after the request that was made by commissioner mcal for that to be opened and this plat where my concerns are and I don't believe that we are doing Justice to those who have provided us the information not giving us the opportunity to really sit down or to call I received a call today from an from from an employee I received that call today so that information that was provided was not provided to any of the other Commissioners so if that person is one of those individuals I should we should have a courtesy to allowing all of us to try to align get on the same page so that we do if we do have any questions that's formulated or anything of that nature that we're able to do our own independent inquiries of employees even if it means that we need to set out aside a time to talk to you as commissioner masal has done so I think that's a courtesy that we should have which doesn't take away from the discussion of the a andb topic that we tabled we didn't table we table those things to give consideration for us to have legal council here to help gauge and direct the conversation commission Masco um I'm just going to respond to a couple of things um the initial investigation was when I um reached out to the firm and you all gave me directions to reach out to the firm I gave them a summary which they developed scope and they provided a scope and a um a cost associated with it a uh a scoping fee um and the purpose of the investigation when I C when I said and brought the information to the commission was so that we could be fair and impartial to both parties fair and impartial to Mr Bell as well as the employees and let the firm do the fact finding I don't think it's decent and in order for us to do any fight finding so that's all I want to say to that and if we ask the employment attorney to come I don't see where we really are we looking for guidance or we do we have her here to provide her what I mean what's the purpose of her being here we're being confused I think we're confusing where I'm going or what I'm trying I'm trying to clearly focus on I understand understand wait a minute I understand I I responded to the per the summary you asked for I provided the summary to the firm so that we can be fair and imposture to both parties I responded and just and let them do the fight finding if we were to go that route now any anything that you have to say as as far as his because it was so much it was because I think we're confusing what we're here for versus what we've been presented well you did ask if we can add it is an emergency atam am right and I never got the answer to that okay so so again that's what I wanted to make sure and I said that from the very beginning as we progress making sure that we progress in the best manner to protect all parties involved that's what I wanted to get to and I said that from the very beginning once I open my mouth and again this is what we do often we get we start doing the back and forth and we lose the focus whereas I was trying to separate what was published what we're here for versus what we got once we're here so the question remains can as we go through after we go through A and B can another emergency item be added to address what was brought forth by commissioner Masco we you can do that now I mean yes yes that was that was just the question whenever we do it that was the question okay thank you and my question is is this firm still available and willing to do this investigation should we want to move forward and I I emailed them I don't know if uh commissioner MCC CasCal has spoken with them I emailed them today to ask them that question and I have not received a response uh I know that at one point we were trying to get this done before Mr Bell's probationary period expired it expires tomorrow I believe and we did ask Mr Bell if he was inclined to agree to an extension the word I've gotten is the answer is no which he has the right to do and so you still have the situation where you've got employees who are in fear um for whatever reason you have a firm that has indicated they put some work into their retainer agreement and that's a decision that you all need to make I don't think it's safe at all for Commissioners to do the fact finding an investigation you are a policy setting board you do supervise one individual one of the problems that you all are having here is your structure is a little bit um unhealthy and most commissions you have two employees you have a City attorney and city manager who reports to you and that would provide you with some relief where the City attorney could tell you what the concerns were uh but here she reports to your city manager and if the City attorney was badly behaved or there were concerns with her in a situation where two people reported to you the city manager could share that with you and you could address it in an easier fashion and I I know you're looking at Charter amendments and hopefully that would be one suggestion I have a question sure with all things considered one thing we haven't mentioned is Mr is also an employee and he's our employee so how are we going to actually uh make certain that he's treated fairly as well in this process we haven't I haven't seen nothing but these two pieces of paper um so far and I want to ask that question before we get into whatever that is um it's very important that when you start talking about fair that we have he's one of our employees included in this so so to ask the question of how should we really proceed and I think that more importantly than getting it I don't want to say more importantly but we have to take in consideration how we're going to address that part um and we can't ask our City attorney you can ask me asking asking that question at this time also it goes in line with if you accus the right to know who your accusers are and if there's if I don't think that he should be outside of uh step outside of this when he's topic of the conversation um I don't know about how much protection other than with whistleblow but I would think that would have went a different route as I stated in the last meeting that they could have uh went to EEOC independent in entity to in investigate claims such as these okay so they could have done two things looked at these complaints and said it meets the criteria or it don't and it wouldn't cost the city a dime but we're talking about upwards of $30,000 for a firm to look at it and may come up with the same answer it doesn't meet the criteria it does but we're going to be out of 30 up $30,000 could be potential not sure the complaints are discrimination complaints um but work Environ uh hostile work environment certainly sounds like um discrimination is in the background somewhere but the challenge with the EEOC is they will they could sit on it for a year or two and in the meantime you're losing employees and maybe employees rights are being violated and and frankly it leaves everybody in limbo I concur with the commissioner Jones with your comment about the fairness is required to be done towards all involved and to answer that question the investigators will make sure that happens because they would ordinarily what they would do I know you used to be a law enforcement officer but law enforcement officers have the right to know what they're charged with right and the typical procedure is the investigators would speak to Witnesses probably find other Witnesses and gather all the information and then meet with Mr Bell and share with him what they're looking at and he would have an opportunity to be heard as well and in response and then they would perhaps go back to the complainants the reality is you're losing employees you've got employees who are scared to submit their statements until after 5:00 pm I don't know if that's fair to Mr Bell or not I know that's what you've got here and you are the supervisor of the city manager and you need someone to look into this and it shouldn't be you my recommendation is that you have an independent firm conduct the investigation and see what you have and I think the sooner the better In fairness to Mr Bell as well as all the employees we don't want to have this cloud of sorts hanging which it is right now this needs to be resolved and the only way to resolve it is to have somebody independent from the city do an investigation go ahead commissioner my my question is I mean we're we're we're tagging or there statements being made that the people that left was uh leaving because of Mr Bell and how do we know that's true that's my understanding that some of them have left uh for that reason I don't know that that's no there was we said five people who recently left left because of Mr Bell that's what the comment that was made and there could be more and there could be more Mr B been here since February right night and so since that time it I mean if he I I think if he I'm not going to get into the the personal piece of it but anyway I just think there's a little bit of concern as it relates to pinning all of these to Mr Bell without without having all the facts and that's what the investigation is designed to provide you are the facts and do we have a policy in place HR do we have a policy for no no no retaliation policy okay okay we also have a policy for resignation or discharge yes and we have had individual who have left the city who yet so I won't get into to the details piece of of of any people who some of the people who have left um but we'll just keep it at that but we do have policies in place to address those issues as it relates to um any retaliation and this is my last piece on this if we Reed these documents these two one was to HR and one was a response from HR and one was from the complainer and as I look through this very briefly actually the complaintant actually was trying to have a res resolution to this so uh she offered up a resolution which she said that if we could work through it so I don't think it's a lot of malice I think that was an opportunity that was just clearly missed may had snowballed from there but with just these two pieces of paper I think that's what it went uh and I think that there was an attempt to patch up whatever differences that was so again we go from this to a $30,000 bill that we could have probably resolved the inhouse probably not an investigation as you guys said but I mean because truthfully if you ask me right now if I'm willing to spend the taxpayers dollars to do an investigation on this it would be no now you better show me something different to change my mind because the employee actually wanted to make mention and she asked questions in here that clearly just wasn't answered unless there's some more to go along with this um is it the pass the employees in here if and ident I mean it okay not to that we got to get back to the agend we are we are agenda says are we going to vote to make this happen and spend this money so I'm without substance what do we did vote to have an investigation done previously we already did approve that but not but this money what what do you mean for what Manner an investigation of we award we we all agreed to do the investigation however we did not agree to utilize this firm as the individual did to the respect Miss mcal did say she reached out to additional uh people and she also offered us to give um the give recommendations as well I made a recommendation for um the department of Ethics or whoever but again with regards to to this specific firm that's what we're voting on correct but we did agree to an investigation whether it's this firm or not commissioner MCO once this was submitted to Sunny this became this will be public record on my right and and employee has identified herself so it'll be out this um and I think that the question should be answered as to how this process went it does answer a question um I think it indicated um in the last meeting there were no Grieves file and I think this was a in response to one and maybe I don't know how the process went but since it's already submitted to sunny it's going to be public record the employee has identified herself if she's fine with responding so we can at least get those answered that would be what I would ask for so if that's proper is that proper Miss because it's it will be public rec the employee has identified herself once again do we accept this as an emergency item in order to properly be able to discuss the matter beforehand because again we're here at this meeting for two items which is to determine if we're going to use a firm to move forth with the investigation and Item B is if the city manager is going to accept the request for an extension motion to add as an emergency item for purposes of making that decision we have a motion to have second second okay the motion has died I feel we need to address the matters at hand and then that's why I asked at the beginning of the meeting the proper place to put it so that we can properly discuss and move forward with the resolution so let's go back this opportunity I second I second that motion at this point can we move forward in that direction since we it seems to have died clarification commissioner Jones did you second's orinal motion yes no we don't it died so another motion would have to be made yeah okay please make another motion please make another motion it can't come from the same person understand that please Jones do you want to add it Jones actually for the sake of discussion you can pass the G if you like there I make know you go ahead that's fine somebody I make a motion to add add this as an emergency item for the discussion on the specific Anonymous concerns and complaints motion been made okay motion been made properly second all in favor you supposed to do the all in favor thing all in favor I I oppose all right the motion to again I want to make sure y'all and I'm not trying to drag it out where are we accepting are we accepting this to talk about it now I made the I said earlier that we get through the business of this and then allow us to get into what's being presented to us I think you said that commissioner Jones was bringing it up as in part of the discussion to make a decision about a yes and that's why it again yes I think that having that discussion at the front will help us make the decision whether or not we want to retain the front just for discussion purposes and with that said I think commissioner Campbell was saying that that could have happened during the time that we were talking about the specific item I think that's where you were going let's just move forward because just it could it could have happened it could have happened at the item or whatever so okay I'm sorry Commissioners I am not following you at all well I don't think anybody let me let me let let me finish up okay you're not following but what what the confusing part was that when Comm MCO made her motion for the uh to move forward with the firm that triggered item one so that's what commissioner M Campbell was talking about so there's the there's the confusion so I just circle back around say that could have happened at item one based on what commissioner Campbell was saying so we have added an emergency item to discuss and it was approved a motion to discuss the complaint concerns raised by staff anonymously and otherwise and that was the emergency item added to the agenda and that was so you are skipping regular business 3A that that is the concern of everybody but because when we got when commissioner Jones was speaking he didn't feel he could get to a without discussing these and so he we've just gone in kind of a big circle I have an issue with it too I think it should be last but here we are so I don't at this point it is confusing because let me let me me it's been through this weird discussion right discussion is in short if we talk about these two in the event that Mr Bale is not friendly to the extension we have a decision to make one way or another regardless of what information is presented to us through what has been provided at the beginning of this meeting that's clearcut that's that's that's that's clearcut now so that's why I wanted to have the discussion about the items presented it means nothing if you sit here and Mr Bell say okay I don't care what's being presented I don't I'm not friendly to the extension okay that to me is the most important part of this meeting because again if he not friendly to to the extension we as a commission decision decision to make one way or another okay so that's why I wanted to boom boom boom and not destroy this not the destroy may not be the right word but I didn't want to bring out people's confidentiality and not even that I did not want the meeting to be hijacked by something that would if be move forward and handle it at an appropriate time that was the time to do it which again I said it at the end of the meeting but those two things that are before us are the two most pressing at this moment in order for us to make a decision but B is more pressing more pressing to than is that now that makes more much more sense yes consider ENT motion toif modify the agenda and then discussion and direction for agenda so who would like to make a motion to adjust the I make a motion that we attorney help me again you're G modify motion that we modify the agenda bringing Item B for our main point of discussion yes and allowing everything else to fall in we have a motion on the floor second we have a motion is second all in favor I any opposition thank you did you vote can you clarify who has the gavl I have the gav right now came back to me after the last yes so with that said we're on to be discussion Direction resolution 2024 r154 thank you mad can we read the resolution please yes ma'am resolution number 2024 154 resolution of the city of Paca Florida authorizing the execution of an addendum to the employment contract with Daryl lroy Bell city manager of the city of Paka providing for scer SS and providing sorry providing for an effective date and then providing for scer SS so moves oh we don't no we don't have okay no no it's the question lies with Mr Bell as to whether he would Mr Le would you like to explain it any further or Mr Bell would you like to respond so Mr Bell's been asked whether he would extend uh a provision of his contract which would extend his probationary period um and uh under the contract that the commission and Mr Bell entered into any changes to that contract must be agreed upon by both parties uh the question was asked of Mr Bell would you agree to extend your probationary period what does that mean that means that if Mr Bell is ultimately terminated um he would not receive the 10 weeks of severance agreement and the number I believe is between 70 and $80,000 you don't know what this investigation is going to reveal if it does reveal something that you think termination is appropriate um it would be helpful to the public dollar if you don't have to pay your city manager the severance agreement um he has the right to say no um and he has the right to say yes so so I have asked him uh if he would be willing to do that he has never answered directly to me but I got word today that you were not inclined to do that is that correct Mr Bell so I I don't mean any disrespect but um I am concerned by the statement that you got wind of or heard today when there was no direct conversation with me so at this point um I believe uh one of the areas that was left out in the discussion of the contract is that if uh and commissioner Campbell read that in the last meeting if I'm not uh mistaken that if there was uh something that came available I mean that came to the commission that involved criminal or illegal activity then I would not be I would be terminated without Severance so that provision is already in the contract so I think the the comment that uh was made that the city would not have to pay um with this investigation is a moot point because if the investigation did show something which I doubt it will but if it did show something um that involved criminal Behavior then I would not receive Severance so if the question is put to me uh as to whether or not I am willing to extend the severance I mean extend the probationary period my answer would be no I'm not willing to extend the probation AR period after seeking counsel on this after conversations with my family uh with various employees the city is at a point now and I'm sure all of you are aware of that that we need to move forward um the probation issue is a element of uh instability that I think affects the organization affects the city affects the the staff as well um probation is not something according to uh my conversations with Florida leag of cities that uh is considered in the majority of contracts across the state just for that exact reason that it creates the potential for instability um so having all those things considered um I am not of the mind um to extend the probation I have a contract uh it was agreed upon and I think we should move forward and I would like to say that I would beg to differ with you Mr Bell uh probationary periods are routinely in city manager contracts um the other thing I would beg to differ with you on is that the language in the agreement that you both signed and agreed to uh has a lot of um different situations by which your position could be terminated without having to pay the severance but I think the language of the contract is very convolute ED and would encourage litigation and so the cleanest way is if you would agree to an extension if you're not concerned about the results of the investigation then you're not going to lose any rights so well you you begged to defer um and I did have those conversations with the Florida League of cities I did speak with uh several recruiters and uh the um who did who did you speak with sir all stuff be directed to us oh I'm sorry I did speak to several recruiters um and uh they are willing to um be present at the Thursday meeting um who had done over 240 recruitments across the State of Florida and this is an issue that has not been contemplated in any of those contracts uh across the FL State of Florida uh I also spoke with the uh Rough Riders or the advisers and the advisers uh from Florida Leal City said the same thing but all of that said it still comes down to the to the fact and to the point that I that I am not willing to um be friendly to the idea of extending the probation and I don't uh want to go back and forth with u Miss early about uh the information that was provided to me because at the end of the day um considering the staff the city uh citizens and my family in the conversation that I had and seeking councel it does not make sense for me to to move forward with extending my probation Mr early you you are saying though these situations have happened where contracts have been extended yes any you can both agree age to extend it you've got one party who will not so there's your answer make a decision about which direction we want to go forward with this information um and to me again this is my opinion it's you that is living this but in order to clear your name as well as clear the air in the in the city I would think it would behoove you to extend it so this investigation can happen and the information can be found out as to whether it's factual or not here we so I I just am concerned go ahead commissioner B but can can the investigation continue on with or without him extending of course it can but at the risk of of severance pay having to be paid out if if if there are issues that come to light right but but again he did enter into a contract with the city uh the probationary period is up and um so that's the dilemma I mean again he has every right to say hey I don't want to keep pushing my time out I mean that's just right right right and and I don't know if we should be forcing or you know even continue to pressing to extend commissioner CCO I think that's an an important um matter you brought up um one thing that I think commissioner Campbell brought up in the last meeting is that even if he did continue um make it past his probationary period that an investigation still be conduct can be conducted for the sake of being fair and impartial to both parties and looking into the issues commissioner Campbell commissioner Jones said a lot and how do we want to move forward Madam mayor you called as a meeting I just want I called it as a continuation of a meeting that we had previously that we tabled because we did not have legal representation but mayor we also tabled it to provide that information but we were looking forward to having this discussion at our next uh commission meeting okay and we are also responsible for tax dollars and again I did call the meeting thinking that we wanted to have some ansers to these questions prior to that period of time ending um or request an extension which Mr Bell rightfully has said no thank you to miss commissioner mcco kind of thinking about the recommendation um of the attorney and she did say uh um remind us to be friendly and mindful of taxpayers dollars but I'm going to say the same thing if you can continue his employment and an investigation is conducted we're putting the price tag again on it if something is found we do have a right to terminate it's in our hands and it may cost but we got to make a decision tonight which direction we're going in I agree but I also think that we need to take in consideration some of the dialogue that transpired at the beginning of our conversation which on was reiterated with the hearsay that was received by the attorney um with regards to a possibility of if there were two citizens specifically that stood before the commission and brought forth the um the matter of if the investigation would be flawed as a result of re getting a recommendation from our labor attorney uh with regards to being fair and concise I also Drew um concerns of um attorney elderly going directly to Mr Bell instead of through the commission and then today we hear statements to an assumption how did that assumption can get to her by whom had the conversation with her um if it did not come from anyone on this Das it shouldn't have come from anyone uh with regards to uh a yay a nay or possibility possibility I know what it is I was just trying but I think that it's of great importance that as we proceed forth that the level of transparency that I always speak about is there and again I'm going to ask the question did anyone on the Das have the conversation with attorney elderly uh that there was a possibility that the answer would be no to Mr Bale's extension I didn't I don't know who informed her I didn't I didn't have a conversation with her I did speak with her last week um I spoke with her but nothing to say anything about I've spoken to M le as well but I had no idea because I certainly haven't talked to Mr Bell about it so I would not know what direction he was going in so I could not Point proven there's a flaw well all that said I also sat as a citizen when several city managers were terminated in the past without any real reason or rationale um given to the community I'm not saying that's the case here but I I think everything tends to be flawed when humans get involved that's why we wanted a third party to do this investigation mayor we said third party mayor I said on the dis when those decisions were made half of the decisions that were made with previous city managers I made them so I understand you sitting on the side of a citizen but I sit on the side as an elected official who has a job to govern um our employee but then again we do have a to take in consideration that if there have been conversations that have getting gotten back to someone that is supposed to provide us guidance and it did not come from anyone that sit on this commission that there is a flaw somewhere and it's our determination that we act accordingly knowing that there have been some information that has been talked about that did not come from anyone that has to make the determination or the decision with regards to Mr Bell's employment that is not fair to Mr Bale it's not professional to this commission and we have a duty to address that as well but in this given platform we're talking about Mr Bell who has in fact stated that he would not be friendly to moving forward with the extension of his employment it's been clearly laid out in his signed and executed contract that if anything was to come back in this investigation and I made sure that I read that my meeting was hijacked with regards to some stuff but again I wanted to make sure that we stick to the language and the contract so if there is anything to come back on Mr Bale it's clearly stated that we as a commission have a decision like we as a commission have a decision right now to say if we're going to move forward or if we're not going to move forward that's why I wanted to make sure that when we have information provided to us it was provided us in a time where it is Mak sense at this moment what do wek as a commission want to do with regards to the response that came from Mr Bale stating that he is not friendly to the execute I mean to the extension of his contract probationary well period so his probationary period of his contract and again I believe that mayor it was brought to the attention by commissioner Jones that you were the one who called for the meeting and so there there may have been something that we may have missed and if that's the opportunity for you to bring it to our attention if not I prefer to go home and be with my family and allow Mr Bell to continue to do what it is that he has to do and we do what we have to do um until a Time certain of course if we want to bring this we have talked about bringing the matter up um with regards to those who provided us information I don't believe that Mr Bell has to be here for it and that will give us the opportunity to have that discussion if we so do wish to have so tonight commission mastle so good with be but I think we should finish the agenda out as far as that's related and he doesn't have to be here like you said for absolutely yes so so in this we're going to the emergency agenda item that was added to look at this information and take a recess is that what you're requesting making sure that we finish the agenda out well we have it we yes that's what we're trying to I gave a recommendation if we're not friendly to the recommendation we can move forward but again we have a decision to make we do have decisions to make yeah B right and so with that said I and when you asked the question of me I was just following up calling this meeting based on that last meeting which we tabled because we did not have legal pres mayor we have a meeting Thursday we do and it's a full agenda and so I thought we wanted to finish these topics because they are crucial and critical to the employees and to the city manager um rather than adding something to an agenda when we know the agenda gets long and people get impatient and want to go home with their families so here we are on B and do you want to entertain a motion I and you don't technically I don't have to pass the G I want to entertain a motion to Mr Bell's employment immediately you got the G you got the G got car that's a motion we need a second on got a motion we have a second motion motion di lack of second so with that said how do we want to move forward as stated I'll make a motion that we move forth and allow Mr Bell to continue into uh the role of city manager and that we move forth with the accepting of the emergency item which will provide us the opportunity to look into the uh employees who have brought forth concerns to allow us to properly vet and I ask that at that time uh Mr Bell exit the premises yes Mr Bell could you please leave and go out the right the door to the right please so we can go to this item just for thought he's entitled to be here right it's not the well it he could go on YouTube again it's my recommendation and if it's not friendly Mr Bell has the ability to say yay or nay and again I will reserve the motion he does have the ability to be here but again I'm making it but if that's how we want to continue it doesn't matter to me at all but we now know the real reason of why we're here or why we was here do we have so we have a motion do we have a second that's it oh no no I don't second out you don't a second for what I withdraw my motion okay with that say Mr Bella is staying and I guess we start this process of looking at the information are we going to take a brief recess okay let's take a 10-minute recess and come is that long enough I'm sorry enough to look at it yeah enough time she's going have to go out make cop 20 minutes please sorry e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e say the meeting is going to resume Miss CR Madame mayor commission thank you for resuming from Recess for me I've received a public records request for copy of the documents I'm about to provide to you and for that reason I requested a uh that this meeting be be called back to order mayor um with all due respect may we have the City attorney to speak to um the records yeah could you please yes Miss is coming of course thank you um and as I was reminded by um our own city manager earlier today and then also Chief Shaw um this evening there is an exemption to the public records uh law in the State of Florida if there is an ongoing investigation it is my understanding that the the last meeting that you made a vote for two investigations to commence one against assistant city manager Jonathan Griffith and one against city manager Troy Bell none of those documents um according to Florida's public records law are uh able to be distributed in response to a public marage request and city manager has confirmed this in the email today and this was again affirmed by uh Chief Shaw so with that um these are documents that are are being provided in furtherance of the investigation that you voted on um at the previous meeting and therefore they are not subject to public records request um we uh respectfully request that you maintain um the Integrity of the investigation by keeping the documents to yourself and do not distribute them thank you thank you you want to distribute them please go ahead commissioner C and I want to make a recommendation that once these are distributed can we table this um deciding on the law firm if we're going to retain them or not until Thursday that way it gives us time to read and review these is that okay is that is the commission friendly to that that would be my suggestion as well yes okay so motion to table have a motion and second all in favor and also can we get a copy of the retaliation policy just so I I'll know and just have all these commissioner Bor uh I like when is this a motion to postpone to a date certain until Thursday's meeting that yes ma'am I did thank you okay I I like to just uh make a motion based on the the current uh situation and state that we're in right now as it relates to any individuals who are already in the pipeline to um report to HR for everyone who has submitted anything if they don't feel like they should report if they don't they're not comfortable reporting to the city manager at this time to make sure that there's no um uneasiness or or things that's going to cause any further issues within the city to make it a clean pipeline I think uh if if he if the city manager would be okay to just send any of his uh communication through HR to the employees for they can do the work through them and that that way there's no direct contact until this um situation is completed that's just would be my recommendation absolutely can I ask this you're saying on his investigation everything is reported to HR what I what that's not what I said that's what I'm asking what I said for all the employees uhhuh who have submitted yeah anything as it relates to any discomfort or anything that would cause them discomfort in the workplace that they would report to HR and their work would come from Mr Bell to HR for them and they they're not reporting to him until after the investigation is over and that way everything will be clean and returned back to normal commissioner C reporting wise commissioner C I'm not understanding that they're not reporting to Mr Bell doing the investigation piece that's the that's and you're saying they report HR correct okay and I that's why I'm going back to what Mrs early recommended that that's can you go back to your recommendation regarding that and seeing if she can provide some guidance okay okay having employees report to HR HR is a subordinate of the city manager so that does not protect the employees don't know that they need protection but it certainly doesn't work and it puts the HR person in really rough situation too this is just a challenge of one employee who reports to your board and so the question is whom should those employees go to to f St while the investigation is being conducted I don't know that you have a solution to that unless you have to report to council or the investigator once you select an investigator um but Mr has to be able to run the city in his job um I think he knows not to take any retaliatory action against any employee um that could that could submit you so question what is your recommendation what would what would be your recommendation as it relates to that a clean recommendation so that we can do that so that we're making sure that we're looking out for the employees best interest thank you um the other option is to outside Council but you know we we're expensive so I would go with somebody who's less expensive would you Rec well what about using a outside um HR firm potentially cost yep that's it's it's much less than it would cost for uh an attorney a labor attorney but you know HR would be somebody who may have been retired or whatever that that's running a business on this um running running a um running running their own business as a consultant they could very well do that for the period of time that we're trying to do this investigation so I'm just trying to make up try to get the best Alternatives so that we can move the city forward this might be a potential solution but the Florida League of cities um does have a potential avenues that may be of assistance the senior advisers the transition team might be able to provide absolutely at no cost that was actually going to be my request okay so we let's let's roll let's look at moving that way instead of my original request that we would um go through the Flor Lega cities and we would solicit their Direction and guidance and consultation in addition to I want us to take in consideration that we have to be mindful of not creating a hostile environment for Mr Bell to operate and work in too while we are trying to protect all of those that report to him we have to be mindful that he is to our employee and we don't want to create a hostile work environment um for him or a difficult work environment for him to be able to work and carry out the duties of the Cities the city I do believe um commissioner MCO made the recommendation that we table this matter until Thursday which would give two days uh really a day um to consult with the Florida Liga City in hopes of being able to provide us with some information on Thursday night that would allow us to better gauge how we would like to handle those that um have come forth with regards to their concerns and still be able to allow all to be able to operate in their various capacities and continue to make the city move forward okay so so clearly um commissioner MCO will be reaching out to the floor Leal cities correct for this direction because are you going to am I are y'all still appointed me I mean I don't know well you're the point person in this situation we we have okay I'll reach talk to for the leag of cities also the retaliatory uh policy if we can all get that as well just so we'll have that I need it okay all right okay and with that said we did have after the conversation a couple of folks that still wanted to come up and make have a public opportunity for public comment before we pass out these items and then do we have a motion to table by the way do we want do we need a motion yeah okay we have a motion do we have a second second F we did it already do we space I'm sorry do we need to do a formal motion to give direction to commissioner mcal or can we do it by way of consensus I think we I'm just just just making sure we go again yeah okay um Mr spell name and address for the record please and be respectful and civil thank you my name is Jacob spells I live at 509 qu Avenue I'm not here to apologize for anything that I'm about to say I'm not going to disrespect anyone and I don't expect to be disrespected but it's time for us to stop living in the 1960s we liveing 2014 the train is at the station if you don't want to ride then don't get up and that's where we are today since this man been hired it's been every robbit hole in the county somebody been pulling something out it's not fair to him what you're doing I pointed out before he was hired what was going to happen in his Happ right up front he should have done what he should have done be these people's boss not their friends he ain't gonna never be their friends and I looked at something happened tonight here somebody bringing some information in 10 minutes before the meeting now if somebody having a complaint against him you got HR you have five four Commissioners and a mayor we don't need to be bringing this stuff to the public to help make a decision you all should make the decision the public don't know the rules regulation and guidelines of how the city businesses run you all know what he should or should not do discuss it among yourselves come to conclusion give him a passing grade or failing grade the public you don't get the public opinion because you're never going to get that correct and you're never going to get a true identity and facts because it's going to be somebody next week bring something in against it it should be a cut off period somewhere I mean let's do the thing right I mean you don't legislate right and wrong it's either right or it's wrong and you are not being fair to him and the commission should do that job hey let's give this man respect treat him like a man and a human being and go from there until you do that you're going to continue to have this commotion special meetings all that you sure you all should be conducting business of the city not this nonsense that you're going it was a whole lot of talk here tonight but wasn't anything say nothing so let's get on the ball and do the right thing you're not living way back there now Everything Has Changed we liveing it today this moment this moment and until you do that this is what you're gonna have thank you you Mr Holly please give your name and address for the reckon and you have three minutes good evening I never met Mr Bill a few minutes ago I don't know him I know what I reading newspapers could you please give your name and address though first I live at 610 North Fifth Street Pica Florida my name is Fred Holly anyway I'm to introduce myself start with but anyway this investigation Mr B Ben Al for how an investigation don't look like you all knew his track record before he started understand what the paper says and uh the things he's done according to the paper he should be put out I think course I don't what I think don't amount to nothing far as that goes but anyway that's what I think Mr Bell uh y'all GNA keep keeping coming down here he's going to be like other sex city employees he's going to quit I couldn't blame him for quitting y'all bring say things about me and bring me to the meetings and all and uh I think we I think you ought to get let Mr Bell go tonight because if we if he's if he's here on Thursday night he can say well I'm I'm going to leave and y'all give me my whatever is coming to me and go you say well if we don't uh if we keep him on WE G if we let him go we're going to have to look for another city manager if Mr Bell quits you going to have to look for another city manager and you going to be out a lot more money so just my opinion that the way things going on that they're going to make Mr Bell quit just like the other city employees quit I I and I don't blame them I'd quit too they keep bringing things up against me that's soon up say they order to get let him go tonight and went City wouldn't be out no money I understand and look for another city manager and I thank y'all for listening to me but like I say I'm not nothing for that goes but anyway that's what I had to say thank you all good night with that said um Miss CR could you share the information you have me and then we going to be tabling for we have received the information ask oh we're not done oh my bad H she pack yeah wait there more e e e e e at the bottom e thank you to reiterate these are part of the investigation they confidential not to be shared they for I eyes only with that said Do we have any further may I ask a question I'm sorry go ahead um is mrly to be provided copy of these what the wish of the commission I believe she's our labor attorney um I don't think this is I think she would be considered outside counsel am I right and that's if we decide to utilize well I'm not going to be doing the investigation but uh giving a confidential document to your attorney is no different than you're reading it because we have uh confidentiality during the course of the invest investigation you choose not to that's fine if there's something in there that I have concerns about it might be good that you know that um so with that being said do we have a copy for her are you all I am fine with that it's everybody else given okay okay what does that mean okay I mean I didn't I I guess we're okay we're friendly to providing our employment copies of these statements yes we no are we are okay with it okay I'll take that as a yes do we have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn thank you second no we need a second I do second yes