e e e e e e e e L welcome to the city commission meeting February 19th 2025 at 5m we're going to
start with the invocation by Pastor mbery and the Pledge of Allegiance by commission Davis father we give you thanks and we give you praise for all that you have done and certainly all that you're doing we ask God that you will look on us to
come together to share this setting again we ask for the wisdom to be upon our heads in decision makings father we pray that you will keep us mindful of our Civility and keep us mindful of who we are pray God for
your directions and all that we underg to do for your glory have your way God even now it is in Jesus name we pray thank God amen amen of Ali I pledge Al to the flag of
the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all roll call Madam clerk please present commissioner Davis
present commissioner Justin Campbell present commissioner will Jones here commissioner Rus Forum he said he was going to be late thank you you're welcome um I am going to open the floor up to public comments is there anybody here for
public comment seeing n close public comment and we move right on to the next agenda item which is regular business Madam mayor yes before we get started um I'd like to make a any emergency motion
agenda items is that appropriate now yes go ahead um I move that we add two emergency or two items the Redmond Jones contract discussion and the blue crab contract that we received okay the city manager negotiation discussions on here
oh I apologize that's okay but you want oh I'm sorry I apologize just won the um blue crab contract negotiation I apologize we have a motion second all in favor I any
opposition thank you um first item objects and objectives and goals for the city manager performance appraisal would you like to start or open the conversation Miss Jones Okay so before you all um you were given um a copy of the smart go work um
worksheet as well as the um the page um behind that is concl is actually listing where we ended off um with this discussion for city manager gos um with the um previous um city manager the second um sheet which um was
provided to you all is Just for information if you decide to use it under each one of those categories or on the previous um goal setting was um just broken down into some um measurable categories that you all may want to consider utilizing in those so you'll
have something measurable to move forward in the city manager goal setting so that's what the second page is in the highlights it's just time frames you all are welcome to change them use them or you may not even want to use these but it's just examples of things that can be
measurable in order for the um upcoming city manager or the new city manager to be able to do I also provided you a copy of the team building um that was one of the things um we had the last time the team building um um paperwork from the last team building session where a lot
of things was outlined or noticed about the organization and some of that was gathered into the goal setting so I did provide each of you with another copy of that team building and the out um comes if that's something you all wanted to look back um on as you're um continuing
on with the goal setting thank you okay um with that said who would like to stop first so we did draft as was said um with the previous city manager we
drafted some or we started to draft that and then we're back to kind of refine and finish this up and hopefully have something in place for the next person mayor yes since I'm new to this and I know you previously started this
work one of the challenges I'm having which is why I was asking if the city's strategic plan or comprehensive plan was available and I understand it's in um progress up the updates are in progress is
I guess I was looking for something to to drive the goals or where we're pulling the goals from um versus just thinking about what the city manager should do for example if the city's fiveyear strategic plan or comprehensive
plan is to do these five or six things then I think that's a way we could hold the um manager accountable to ensuring that we are doing things that are tangible that have been identified and
agreed upon for the City versus the commission just identifying goals that we think a person should have I don't know what they would be tied to other than our desires so I'll I'll say that now if there's something that this was
already tied to I'm open to hearing it because I may just need to be brought up to speed and level set thank you go ahead commissioner J um I think you bring up a very valid point however I think one of the things that we would be able to utilize is having the city
manager play an active role into helping us identify what the Strategic plan needs to be um so in for lack of better terminology we would be able to input within that time frame to help
us bring to a resolve the Strategic plan and make sure that it really stays a in front of us um I think that'll be one way that we would be able to hold some kind of accountability is making sure that as we progress with the city
manager that he assists us and making sure that our desires um as a commission are sought out through the Strategic plan do we want to stop where we kind of left off and look at these items here
and see if we want to continue down that path come up with something new so for example and of course Miss Jones the HR department try to match what we had come up with with measurable um objectives so the first
one was enhanced organizational management Employee Engagement management of the organization and if we look through that do we want to continue and have that as one of those items
I think for sake of us um trying to recreate a will I think we have a pretty decent because we did at that time vet uh the things that we wanted and I know we have commissioner Davis who is new um so I think it would be um to our
advantage to ask her outside of these things is there anything that she would like to see added to this um because of course uh there's new blood on here so we want to make sure that everyone's uh cons thought and consideration but I
think with those of us that are or have been on the diet um we've put quite a bit of work into this um so any additional information or any additional additions should be able to come from commissioner
Davis thank you and that would just be a recommendation it's not no that's fine I think everybody's comfortable with that giving Miss commissioner Davis the opportunity to express her thoughts on that I i' okay so that's this report the this
document that has step where where are the No it's it's this one with the highlighting oh that I'm at yes sorry oh if I had this I don't I'm sorry I think I just saw the first two sheets I I didn't get this yellow
sheet with in and perhaps with your what you had suggested earlier maybe the next goal or another goal would be to um the implementation of the Strategic plan the comprehensive plan and the CRA plan correct yes if um and I'm going to Y to
you guys are those items here here they're not spelled out okay so those are items I definitely would like to see added okay and do we think that would be added as a fifth item or incorporated into
something existing number four might be the only one I see that it could be rolled into or just kept as a separate item I'm sorry I just said when I look at what we've already established I think that um it almost becomes a
separate item in l number four it could be included in number four in some fashion but I think it's a separate item yeah it's sear yeah I would that but I think it's a separate item all together one of um mayor Madam mayor one
of the items I would like to see that I don't know that I see and please guide me if needed is I'd like to see something where the manager is held accountable
for implementing kind of this the policies the city policies for example um um for ex uh I guess and this may be included in the commission reports um
but for example when the council submits I mean and when an um policy is submitted or something do we get feedback as to when that's being implemented the status of that I guess if that makes sense what
I'm trying to say um I think that also falls under HR to some degree correct but it it and I guess what I'm thinking about from a city manager since the HR since HR report of the city manager that that is
being um tracked or you know we we have all and and let me say this from my perspective because I'm reading a lot trying to on board and make sure I catch up I can see some things that have occurred in a previous commission meeting do are we getting regular status
of those items are we able to keep track of them are we seeing those items regularly and and and if so can we have an A I guess an expectation or standard for that to continue with the time frame um I don't know would
that fall under two collaboration transparency with City commissioners I think so commission relationship and add that as another measurable so so what I'm hearing you say is we need to have that format and
it's sort of C commissioner K been saying this for a while we'll say something we'll make decisions but it never roll back here hard copy set set in stone where we are that's correct and and I agree with that but what would be that
vehicle what Matrix I think I think it could be a report like can the city manager can provide an initial report acknowledging Council requests um with an estimated time frame either through resp response or status
update one thing that I would want us to take in consideration as we do that I would not want it to be in an email form um I would want it to be in a form of a report that comes before the commission because a lot of times we we
emails can be missed um and if it's an important status update I don't know if we need it to have it come before the form of when the city manager is given their report to report out on all of those things or we put it to I know that
recently we've tried to um minimize the um department heads having to be available um so we would just have to again come up with a a measurable um method so that we would know how to get
it disseminated to us in an open fashion well I have a suggestion is um maybe staff provides a um bi-weekly report to the manager or I'm sorry the manager
provides a bi bi-weekly report or bonly whatever deter um uh time frequency we desire that's um if we give them a time frame a
written report so are we looking for in the I know um previously we've just implemented and I know I thoroughly appreciate staff um and it's been continued for the last uh inter term and prior to that they do
send out an email with regards to um some of the projects are we looking at to be in that form but presented or how do how how how would that look to well I I'll give you an example so right now we're getting the status updates I I don't know what they're called from it
depends on the week the interim city manager so you're correct and that's the point I'm trying to make so what I'm really asking for is a standardized report um that provides and perhaps it's by categories you know
um Grant projects um Grant projects um you know we did have a document and I know once we switched over to Microsoft 365 they were working on for lack of better words the
Google version of Google docs so that we would be able to log on and have that um that work space I don't know if it was sought out um it's a totally different uh crew of people but I knew that was something that previously um we did have
where it was being eaten mailed out but it was going to be in a a central location that we would be able to go on and click and find those statuses so that's something that we do need to Circle back around because I do think that would be to the benefit it's real time and then anytime we want those
updates we will be able to go on and see So to that point I'm saying a standardized report it could be in a location especially if we have technology and resources that we're not using that we can have a data repository
where those reports are expected so again I don't want to get so um in the weed that I'm saying what the report looks like but we definitely want a standardized report that includes all of the categories that we need to decide
the um commission needs updates on regular updates on okay and is that excuse me go ahead uh it's actually on number two item six developer Implement a standardized presentation
template within the first 90 days of employment to ensure consistency professionalism and Clarity across all employee presentations but to include those project updates I I mean whatever corre did that be that's what you're talking about that's exactly what I'm
talking about and um this is for um so this is for the staff I guess is there reporting or bringing reports what isn't this the city manager go across all employee presentation I'm good with that I think that covers it okay does that cover
that add a little bit maybe to that as well in terms of um that update as well as where we are with the budget lines y that are running those projects and the uh amount in those budget lines and how
much has been consumed so we understand and know how though if if the project is an ongoing project we need to know tracking that project how much of that budget has been consumed and I think that's a a good way we've been asking for that for um a period of time as it
relates to that I agree commissioner Bor and may I add mayor a request um as we um deliberate and um converse with regards to these things I want us to um make sure as with legal that we're on
the right track and if we need to be kind of steered in a direction to make sure that we are um I don't want to say productive but if we are having conversation that we just know cannot happen um to kind of save us
the opportunity and kind of just put us back on track so that because when I when I say that I just when I say that I just want this because this is a document that is going to be something once it's signed it's going to basically be a legal binding
document and we don't want to implement anything or we don't want to say something and then it can be so I just want to make sure that as we are thinking things out that it's in a way that if you had to sit in the
courtroom that you'll be a to have have our backs but to that point and not to Bel lab this um I know you say you don't like the email forms however I would
like both forms the written in or report because you can't go you can't go back on an or report but when it's written you could go and reference that written report when I say don't like that I don't want that to be the sole right so I want written in all
both as well that's all I have to say if I may mayor isn't this what you're talking about um as part as the city manager report that you guys get on a monthly basis did you want to so you want it broken down more I think it should be
done more more frequently like bi-weekly I like that because things happen every day correct um and we should be AB breast on because sometimes and it's just by Nature you know some folk come up here more than up more than others so
and she could think or he could think that he have relayed that to to all the Commissioners but it didn't disseminate down so pushing it out every other week would be excellent so none of us could say we didn't get the information so
yeah and I think also there was some discussion about being being specific with categories like for example repeating that updating those reports on specific items that crucial to the organization also um commission Davis
you mentioned the implementation and follow up on the varish plan strategic comp C is that going to be a fifth um so need okay Madame mayor if I may the Strategic plan is already listed
under your goal one um as well as the policies that commissioner Davis was speaking of for the the city manager being responsible for the policies and the equity of them that's listed there the other two was the comp plan and this um C CRA plan so do you want those two
on Five or we're going to include it in the bullet points five it's already good there so do we feel that's covered commissioner Campbell to your point on the legality of any of this it's it's always going to be changing
but I will flag number 1D conduct quarterly diversity and inclusion training sessions to support a more inclusive workspace this is a moving Target but there have been threats um given the new Administration to take away funding from local governments if
they have a Dei policy is there a way that we will be able to utilize that or change it to something that will cover more flexible more flexible yes thank you for that well G also said
diversity I think if you just did just the quarterly training and then it could the content can be what it is but you know I think if you you can just say the quarterly training or whatever and whatever content that you put in there if it meets that criteria in those
conditions that might satisfy satisfy the case because I do remember we did lose a $300,000 Grant last year um after it made it um through both the and the Senate side just for the word
diversity cultur yes simple as that it just dropped [Music] 300,000 so conducting quarterly training sessions are we just doing away with diversity inclusion it can be included
in the content but not specifically stated condu training sessions to support a more inclusive inclusive inclusive commission I I'm little I'm a little hesitant of
inclusive the community reflective I mean find a word to replace inclusive do may I have some time to research this to find out a good way thank you okay that's good mayor I I have two more two things
I'd like for us to consider two additional areas we have four so a fifth item that I'd like to see is some kind of uh servant leadership um to address the needs of
the community I don't know the right way to see it if that's in there I'd really like to see that be a separate area and included in that is for the city manager to conduct some um Community forums right
so oh I'm sorry yep yep yep Community engagement inclusivity well here's that word again and then he has a requirement to hold at least four Community okay got it I see it I'm sorry I'm just kiding this you had something else as well you
um yes is it spoken in there about developing um a mechanism to get community feedback and writing like a community survey or I mean I don't want to assume because we have Community forums and it looks like we get feedback but I don't know what comes of that I
know goad I'm sorry mayor I know that um Recreation is working on a survey um that they're just it started up under the last Administration um but they're working on it but I think it's an opportunity for us to make sure that
it's something that's sought out so we would want to add that as a bullet bullet item under four we that we listed exactly how would that be placed because it was providing monthly reports to the commission summarizing Community feedback and outlining actions taken in response but beyond that what would you
like yeah I think those are items that come I'm asking us to request in a formal maybe a performance-based approach to um getting Community feedback or creating Community survey I'd like to see something more formal
okay and to that I would in concrete I I would and this is what I've experienced is well that there be some kind of formal um
communication from what stems out of our workshops I know commissioner Bor has had several workshops and I haven't really seen anything put out to the community um with regards to either summarizing or actions that we can
actually take um and I witnessed that with my town hall that we got a lot of posit the feedback but there was really no push out from the um from our perspective as to things that we that
were tangible things that we had really no control over at the time but still was investigating so I think that anytime that a commissioner or a public form is had that there should be some kind of uh followup follow up directly from City
Hall to uh the city citizens so I think I oh I'm sorry I was going to say I think I have a suggestion for an item so just for you guys um identify and Implement a performance-based approach
to address concerns from a community survey what would that be considered an action plan so you can come back what you're taking away from that because I was going to ask that about the your last form I would
what sort of like where do we go from here you you had a form but what are we G what are we doing what came out of that that's very important right and can I ask a question with regards to um assistant chief Nukem the four the is
there a set because I know you do the The Zone meetings and I know that you do the uh walk alongs I mean the the talk Tuesdays and things of that nature but is there any formal survey that you all sent out or is it just people that show
up has there been anything formal that has been sent out to the citizens um we do not publicize or advertise the talking Tuesdays um we did it first and it really didn't seem to make a difference
in the number of people that we are able to reach out to because we're walking we're literally walking the streets um and and we make contact with people who may be outside that we may see walking from a car going into their home um so
we make contact people that we we visually see when we're doing the talking Tuesdays um so we we don't do like a survey or anything we're just okay we're just making contact with folks and getting getting them to know our staff
getting to know the community members and just asking generalized questions what's going on is there anything going on is anything we can help you with and we don't just ask that question um directed strictly at um our side of
the business but we ask you know is there anything that we could do is there is your trash being picked up on a daily basis and there's been a couple of times where we've had people tell us I've had this pile of trash sitting out here for days and it hasn't been picked up and then we notifi Joe or or Ed or or
whomever it needs to be um and then we follow back up with the the other directors or other team members okay so my concern about the survey is and I know we've done a few surveys even when they were trying to uh
I can't even think of the guy's name that come from south I mean West Florida uh Quint Quint stter stter that some of the feedback it really what it really didn't give the substance that we needed in
order to really be able to take action or take into consideration and other surveys that have been put out so I'm a little concerned if we put that as a tangible item and we don't have any
tangible information to build that component off of if that makes sense I think it's important but I don't think that it needs to be a part of the evaluation process because again you have certain individuals who will feed
into a survey but for the vast majority of City residents we're not getting it we're not even getting 1% of core information when we put that out so I would be a little I think it would be um a disadvantage to whoever sit in that um
see that city manager to put that as a requirement and we don't get participation from the citizens I I I understand and so one of the things I think about with surveys is of course your feedback is only as good
as the survey and only as relevant as the number of people who respond I get that um however I think there's um a way to determine if survey responses are even statistically valid I say that
because I don't think we should throw out surveys I believe while it may not be um a great response now as the city I think improves and we gain Trust of our citizens that their feedback is even
taken into consideration I I mean I that just might be the Hopeless Optimist in me but hopefully it will but I don't I do agree that it should not be the sole metric but I still would like to see it Incorporated and I'm going to read what
I think I I've put down as you were talking and hope if this addresses it or if not but what I'm trying to drive is when a a a a community Forum or anything
is um occurs that we get something from it and we do something with it so that's what I'm trying to drive and that there has to be some accountability for that and so what I'm looking I said identify and Implement a performance-based approach meaning what can we do
how can we get it done and by when to address concerns from Community surveys and or Community forums if is is that Bas I post um yeah
within and I really want to make it measurable and I want that uh within also be time certain this got to be a time yeah within however much time from the event so so that's what I'm proposing
that we add to that and I got an I have a couple of examples uh on the last couple of forums that I had I didn't push it out to the community but at the same time it did uh serve a purpose in it uh example would be the one that we had at the golf course that had with the
um the Young The Young the lady that worked at the golf course um um had a concern with uh chickens the noise and different things of that nature and so we end up we did Implement a um a policy as it relates to uh the noise and the
number of chickens you can have if you even if you can have them in the city or what what have you so we did that I didn't push it out to the community but we did um let the uh individuals know that this um policy had been put in place her concern the other thing that
the last form that we had we had issues where there was intrusion right here on the riverfront I'm not going to name the individual house but we had our City attorney to work on that but a letter was drafted as it related to that to be
able to help support these individuals with losing about 50 to 60 feet of their property the other thing we had was the noise associated with the um the um what's this water is a CL the lift
station the lift station not only theor but it also had an odor that is coming from there and I think the when we um approve that2 200 and something $300,000 for the new one that's going to take care of the older the other piece is
that the noise um they're working and I think they're going to be doing something around the noise and they're going to be building something around the facility for North so again I think you know those things are important I think um we should send out things like up that nature but sometimes uh certain
things have a little sensitivity to it that where well we can just talk in general so I think it'll be a good thing to send some of those things out and those are wins and to to piggyback on that even if no formal communication is out to the community at least allowing the
commission because again sometimes we have to be mindful when we attend those events some of us try to leave or some don't stay the entire time for Sunshine Law for whatever reasons because again conversations that take place in town halls can lead to one trying to ask
another commit and that's not what we're there for so even if some kind of form of communication is not sent to the general public that it be at the uh it be a requirement for the uh city manager to make sure that some form of communication is provided to the uh
commission and one of the other things I want to make sure we are doing as a commission as well is ensuring that the city manager operates as the city manager and the commission operates as the commission because one of the things that's confusing to me coming in is I
know C certain Commissioners hold forums versus the city manager versus like we're all over the place and sometimes I think that could be as a citizen it was very confusing to me like where do I go who what's going to happen how often are these things and I
think that'll solidify and let the city understand that we'll be having it says I think at least four forums you know or some resemblance of order for the city and that are not one-offs here and there
as needed I mean or or as determined that we need I think you know again I think it was just incumbent upon IND individuals was just doing whatever they felt was right to re reach the community and what
I had always done was did a quarterly uh meetings which I should have had one the past week or so but I I could not you know continue to do that but again I think it's individual but if you want to try and on coordinate maybe coordinate it
through and have it with a city manager or a commissioner we can rotate them but we do need to reach the public uh in in any way we can to make sure that we're we're serving the community yeah and and I'm not I'm not excluding that I really
just want the city to understand how we operate and what to expect so no clarifying on the roles that's correct and clarifying roles because I think some things have been muddled I just want to make sure okay we're still at four okay do we
want to add number five professional skills and development I think we need some performance but did we I'm sorry did we finish adding at six items I'm trying to so professional
development is something that is is already in there yeah it's C so I it's Weir can you guys direct me I also think we don't want this to get too large and unwielding that we yeah agree however I do want things in
proper categories to versus General that that might be what I'm trying to do too and again it's just necessary but um where is it because the fact that there's two four seven one B I think
seven and one no it's two two two two two you have two um two three which is 2 a section three organizing at least two annual workshops to align goals Improvement
communicate so those are all with regards to professional development no no no about city manager profession yes attending icma conferences that focus on city manager leadership um that's in the
contract okay okay okay think every one of them well but coming back with from it the pce that's they go but what we go but what yeah I think that's true of all
of us it's Clos that's my point and why is what is the city paying for what are we that's all that's really what I'm driving what is he going to come back with from that is there an expectation okay wellex and yeah right be careful I'm
trying to find a category to put under anyway I just was suggesting some kind of professional development to benefit the city is what I'm really trying to drive but ifon think that should be something that not
only for the city manager but implementing professional development for any and every staff that could benefit agreed from professional development whether it be another certification program or whether it be a conference that HR needs to attend legal
needs to attend like anything professional development that we feel what benefit our organization needs to be taken in consideration not just for the city manager agreed and but I was just saying for the city manager since he's he or she is a commission's
employee but that expectation would be for the city manager to do it for each director and down which is a good point absolutely agre and Don Holmes when he was here as city manager he he did Implement that and we had um it followed
up um the assistant city manager also we continued that and I think we had that um right and they did that or two years in a row or a couple years in a row and so it's in place that they've offered it to staff as well so but that again that
need to be incorporated into the city manager's uh performance review make sure that that push you know continues on with the staff side of the house and perhaps something would something need to be added to number one employee
management yeah point of clarification for me these goals that we're writing are for this year if this is for this year correct and hopefully some of them will be achieved
so we can so the reason I'm asking is because I think this is fine with where the city is with getting a new city manager and getting these things in place where we've had some gaps but I would um think that after the first year
because we all have a strategic plan then we can make more specific goals towards growing our city filling gaps and some of those type of goals I guess that's what I'm
that's why I'm asking the question I I would think that that's one of the reasons why we want to season City manag to actually as you said knowing the role kind of lead us with that um because we
we trust the certifications that he or she already have they have the experience and training that they could kind of guide us and guide the staff alone so um
you know we we we if we if we be rigid on I think all this is is great but we be so rigid when need gonna be able to manage because he's gonna come in here with he or she come in here with a whole lot to do as it is um and I'm like you I
see this one year we got these T we got these timelines and uh I just we need to know is it doable as we as we sit back and we put them out here ask let's ask ourselves is this doable is it is it
attainable and if so you know we don't we don't have benchmarks right now because we haven't had anybody else actually do this prior I think when we had the initial conversation we put it in a method that it'll I think it all
goes back to how it can be graded so if there's say for instance we identify something on here if there's an attempt if there's an Earnest attempt to get something done we put or we state that there was an Earnest attempt and we make sure that it's graded or scored in that
method so it does not count against them if everything is not on this list that is obtained within that time frame of the evaluation and I think our first round is what a 100 at the 100 day Mark um of course half of this stuff won't be
accomplished by that half a day I mean 100 days or by that 180 days but in consideration if there has has been attempt we need to make sure the metrics allows us to where it does not count against if it was something minute that I don't want to say minut that may not
been the best terminology but if it's something that could not been obtained but working towards obtaining if that makes sense so we have to make sure that the the measuring component covers where there is something that has not been uh
completely addressed there are several performance review tools out there for city manager and I think we need to really pull those out and kill things so adapt it to this community City's need um because when we get to that point of actually aing we have to have that tool
that's right and we that's I think that you know I I sent you several that I had found this was a while ago and there are I know there are quite a few out there um so I think that would be crucial to have that soon so that we can pull that together as well once we establish this
so so is that what we going do the game plan so whoever's hired and brought on board we're going to sit down and actually yeah put those goals for the okay because I know they presented their 3069 a day but what is our 3069 right
that's what I thought we were actually and we may pull from something that person offed but yes I think we need to come up with that go ahead no yes yes yes yes and I anyway um yes one of the things I see I
think we're missing is a fiscal management goal so again this is how I'm my brain thinks right I think about what the city manager is to do right what our city needs
and I I think what where I'm struggling is a lot of these are Behavior related I I I don't I may not be using the right word they seem Behavior related to me versus um what's
the word I want to use versus a technical if that makes sense and and and it may be what we need now but when I think of 30 60 90 days this first year yes these things need to occur but we also
need to make sure we're fiscal he's he or she is fiscally responsible responsible that he or she is coming to the commission with recommendations that are fiscally responsible and I guess I don't see
that yeah and I think would understand what I'm saying yeah we would just since this has never been done for a City Commissioner in the city's history to my knowledge of performance appraisal we were starting from square one and I think we were starting at that background I I agree with you there's
also other things like Economic Development some key there could be the whole issue around um unhomed and and those issues around that that we need to work on a larger scale on um yeah I can see those being yes because some of the
we need this but we also in tandem they got still run this city right not just come with that was my concern about having so much of this is a lot this is a lot this is a lot and that was my concern that you need to
make it achievable as we said when we say a lot I want us to be mindful that I think at the time of the conversation we was just trying to put everything out there for to take for to take into consideration yes but again I think that
the the things that you have identified are very important but again how do we make sure that it's implemented in the way because some of that I mean it's implemented in a way that that we will
be able to tangibly hold him accountable that's that's my whole thing we can put whatever we want to on the paper but how do we how do we hold him accountable I don't think this is solely what we're going off of when it comes down to the
actual evaluation I think this is a component of what it is so if we solidify this then I think that we will be able to move to a more work driven documentation but I think when we initially tried to put
this together we were coming from the morale of both the commission and the city manager at that time and then trying to make sure that we take in consideration the camaraderie that had dwindled so much when it came to City Hall to making sure that we had somebody
when they were to come in that they can take our they they consider our staff and where they had been so or what they have been through so I think that's where this document but I think that if we need to conclude this so we don't continue to make it a growing document
that it reaches further and further away from being obtainable and then we transition to the more performance driven as far as the uh the the things that you the actual things that we would be able to measure him by through and I would make the recommendation that we
look at the IMCA uh evaluation who Encompass a lot of the things that um commissioner Davis has brought forth and it is actually it has recently been updated um within the last year or so I'm thinking within the
last year um and I just reviewed that document and I'll send it over to staff to make it Le easier for you so you won't have to um dive for it but I think that will be the tool that we can utilize to drive our own if we don't just adopt that because it is very
comprehensive it is very uh very very uh it covers all the bases so I think that is something that we will be able to take in consideration as we move forth because as mayor stated this is something that we have not done
I've been sitting here since two January of 2015 and we've gone through quite a few city managers and there was really nothing um outside of Di's conversation uh that we've had in the open in the sunshine
but other than us trying to nail it down I think that we're trying to make this um a little something that we'll be able to be more tangible so that anybody who sits in this position will be able to sit here and be able to be a and be able to follow so so that that that helps me
and that's exactly what I feel this is so you guys have stated what I'm trying to put into words number three I'd like to use as an example improve accuracy and Clarity in commission reports so when I look at these
items we're I I believe this is telling someone how to do a report and what to do a report so again when I think of a city manager and a um a deliverable I think
of bi-weekly reports to the commission that provide updates on the areas we would like to get having to tell somebody to use plain language you know for example that's not a that's not something we need to
measure and it's really insulting and it's really beneath the level of the role so but it's not lost I just think we don't have goals that are measurable that we can evaluate someone on um in
some of these but to your point commissioner Campbell I do understand what this is and how it came about um and I too looked at some area some of the um evaluations that were kind of standard
for a city manager and I just to read a couple of items I found like there were six I think categories and some of this fell into it like one was mission align strategic thinking and actions making sure everything they do fits under what
Paca needs versus someone you know wherever else they're coming from what they um for example we know we had a staff issue so perhaps ensuring that 85% of staff is retained or something like that I think of that is something we can
measure and work with um policy execution in support of community goals um we do have some programs I think in the city that we need to make sure they're followed we hear a lot about um I'm sorry what is it when the um
homes need to yes so some of those programs we need to make sure they're occurring we talk about homelessness or you know something housing so many yes those are the areas that would be policy execution and support of community needs um
maintaining a positive work relationship with the council those are the things where it can come in with the reports and the what ever else you know we need to do maybe a 360 assessment we all so that's an example um long-term planning
for sustainable growth and fiscal health of the city that's the fiscal management pieces I'm talking about with the budget um and then we talked about some uh servant leadership with the community so those when I think of that those are
that's what I think about that we need to Define that in the um um first period the probationary period we can go see is is this city manager in line with this is the city manager in line with these things that we can
actually measure measure the city manager on versus is the report in plain language so just as an example and I think that clarifies my whole thought process commission C and for sake of time and making sure that we use our time efficiently because there are some
other options I mean things to discuss can we charge that with um bringing back to us an actual or two to three actual um evaluation city manager evaluations that tools that we
would be able to look at and identify um and we come back for a Time certain to Hash that out um preferably uh sooner than later sooner than later I know we meet but I think that will probably maximize our productivity if we
actually work towards the evaluation component this is good that we would be a still be able to provide and build off of but if we work towards the actual evaluation component I think that will probably benefit our time a lot more than what we're doing right
now and and may I add one other piece I'm I'm taking us out of the box I'd like to um if staff could look at um other examples because when we get this done I'd like to see it posted on
the city website for clarity other cities have done that for transparency so they can see how the city manager is doing and how we're evaluating but there are several examples out and that's something I want to ask legal to check into okay um to
see what that looks like any more on this topic hopefully go from there um we are going to have to I think if Madam clerk can come up with some dates for us to come back once we have that information um
and review it quickly that we can come back fairly quickly it's going to be a busy month in March and let me ask this question because I know everybody has a lot of stuff going on within their departments how long staff do you think that you would require to get that
information to us so that we can kind of build upon that again we want to try to do it as as soon as possible but then again we want to take in consideration everything that you already have going on in your departments I will start I have Aver start looking for the evaluations um this week um do you all
prefer to get them an email or just bringing it back at a time certain no we would need it before so that we would be able to go through and highlight what we think is important to us um but I just want us to all have the same information to go by uh and then if there's any
additional information that is not if it can be communicated prior to the meeting so that we can take that into consideration as well so when we come into the meeting we're coming into the meeting to Bam out what exactly we want that evaluation to look like so electronically in advance of the meeting
whenever that meeting we should be able to produce those two um the commission um by the first of next week if not the latter part of this week sounds okay I I think attorney sent that out last time didn't you you sent out city manager
evaluation it was uh I think I got it in my car no I got it but I want that's make sure everybody yeah you s you guys sent that out it was and there are M why I said I can send it back to you so it won't be thank you I appreciate it that
was a while ago great um May I just make a suggestion Virginia you can actually get a valuation form on um Florida Lega cities as well as I am um icma if you need help manager
organization that may have some tools as well it's called f fcm so fccma yeah if you're just talking about the city manager uh evaluation form only we we've got multiple copies of that so we one
has been updated one has been the one through imta has been updated and has been different than what we've received in the past there's more not the most cor okay would check out okay anything else on this item on the agenda
um next city manager negotiation discussion okay so uh you did receive each of you the counter offer submitted by Redmond Jones and so we need direction HR needs Direction specifically on how to proceed uh time
is of the essence here I believe as you have been informed by Mr Jones in that uh cover letter he is also interviewing for a city manager position in Georgia so time is of the essence and just for sake of refreshing what was the high end
of our number that we agreed to was it 17 170 and can I get what was the highend of the range that we provided when we put the job out to bed 1965 for the record I don't think we
agreed to the top was going to be 170 I don't think that would have to come back before the commission right you said would come back yeah you yeah you guys only go to okay yeah okay I just want to make sure that was right
um before we proceed may I present something um I sent something to city clerk that actually I received from City attorney and I last let me S it to um and it was the salary ranges
throughout the state corre still have that document you can do it I have to do it um I don't have it on this laptop though see can I send it back to you VI it up and those ranges just for our reference I you know hope it help us
through this situation but um Amanda try to send it to you know you what hey hey is that y'all you know I didn't I have not caught that until you just said
you just say so anyway um I know the City attorney have and that would be something that we probably would look at think we should that's information we should review but I just want to put that out there because we did have it last time
as a tool that we use in reference that's it that's all I want say May okay but again time is of the essence and he Mr Jones also included the range information for city managers in Florida
and his attachment too listen we got to be realistic we have to think about our community our citizens and what it is that we know I don't want this to become an opportunity for
someone to come in make a Payday and then the bar has been set so high because they're in negotiation process again we really have to take our consideration into consideration our city our finances and things of that
nature um I know what we advertise as but in looking at where he's coming from that's a big much of an ask that I I concur I think we've got to be fiscally responsible to our community and our citizens and it's to me one of several
things that was of concern the salary was obviously a major one I think he's out of our league maybe he's worth the penny or when those are going Nichols um but I I just think that's just too too much to ask of our community to accept that
salary go ahead I agree um I did respond um and provideed some information prior to this meeting um and I've been thinking about it since I responded
um I definitely am not um in favor of offering more than you know what we offered in the contract or or the max that we allow the negotiation to have one of the things I thought about um as
a counter is to um perhaps tie some increase to Performance in the future that's what I and um and whatever that number is when I looked at it I believe the C the
request is um about 20 K yes if I can see that 193 correct which is about $23,000 more right than our highest
offer and so I'm not saying go that much but I was thinking perhaps um oh thank you I what I said is offer base salary of the 170k which is the max that we said that we would offer with the bonus
structure at agreed upon um metrics at 6 months and 12 months whatever those numbers could be that could potentially get him closer I'm not a fan of going to the max unless Paca is some Stellar off the chart City in 12 months um but here
was my rationale and I went and did a little bit of work um think I can share my findings here that I looked at the current salary for the Iowa City where he's coming from manager not Deputy
manager but the manager which I saw was about 200k and that city has a population of approximately 75,000 people now I know that um in Paca obviously is substantially less and
while if you look at the perad count and I know it's more than just a perhe head count what we're offering with looking at 10,000 citizens in Paca is about $13.50 per head versus like $266 ahead
in Iowa City however the city may be buing differently and have more systems in place we know where we are so that head count does not is is it's not the be all to give all it's just perspective but I do think based on the
work that we have to do the headcount amount is reasonable to me but again I'm not a proponent of going over the 170 we have especially with the history
of our city managers with our City's feedback and perception and we really need some proof of work before we can move forward um
so um for salary-wise and just to stick with salary that's where I am with that but I'm not opposed to offering some future um to get him and I think that that's almost that happens that's almost an we can do that I guess we're still
you know at the space salary um I think that we just have to make some decisions about whether we want to count Mr Jones or whether we just say that's at 170s at the M I think if we counter him we counter him with what
commissioner Davis uh mentioned about with the 170 plus the maybe every six months you know we we can we can give a bump the next six months making performance you you give a bump but and then we'll have a cap on that so that
we're not maxing out at at the one 65 so I think if we offer him something along those lines but and if if that doesn't work out then we need to have a a a backup plan and I thought we had the
um the backup plan is that didn't work so we have a number two and the number two that we talked about I think we all agreed for a minute but then I think we had um some bagged out but I think we
made an agreement we need need to have a path forward if this does not pan out we but we can't continue to do what we've done in the past we're going to we're going to find oursel in and I think we need to make a
decision as if this the offer that uh commissioner Davis mentioned with the performance Implement percentage and we hit a we hit we hit a number uh if that doesn't um pan out then we need to have a backup
and that's my off coming because we did hear from Mr Thomas Thomas that his issue for dropping out was the fact that he had had a number of of of travels then he
was uh out of at least $45,000 and again continue to continuing to wait on that amount of money to being reimbursed I mean a lot of people are not don't have that kind of money because wages are not tracking with uh
uh the cost of living but he's going to be reimbursed regard Mr Tommy and that's a whole different topic no no no what I'm saying is the reason why he shouldn't eliminate um we should not eliminate him based on because he said that he retracted his um candidacy and I
think there was some Sour it was it put some of the people on the board in a sour mood and I don't think that you he should be hit with that um piece there I mean is he shouldn't be hit with that I get it but then again think on the side
of I get it but it's not our responsibility to make sure he applied for the job here in the city and if those were concerns and questions those could have been things that were addressed at the time before he made the decision because if you look at the
email the email that came from Mr Thomas and we're not even talking about them right now so it came he said after we talk to give away that conversation should have had that conversation should have had before you made the decision to withdraw
yourself from the process we didn't withdraw him from it he did it himself and again I think that as a leader again there's a level of expect and what about
if he gets here and do the same thing you have to consider your family commissioner I you should get it first you said you to withraw anyway let's stay on Mr Jones because we need please um and finish up
this discussion and decision as to how to move forward with an offer to Mr Jones what has been suggested is the 170 with incremental steps based on performance and there were other items yeah there were other items so the salary was just
not the um the only item so that was where I went with salary for relocation um you know considering commissioner Jones feedback you know when we were discussing this before um I know he was asking for more
for relocation um I'm not opposed to countering for relocation but a flat rate I don't think it has anything to do with where he moves or all of those conditions
um I'm not opposed to countering um with the flat 10K I don't putting it out there um Severance absolutely not I agree and the reason is we are not on par with any
national trends and if the city gets on par with national Trends we can consider that in the future but I I just that's absolutely not the severance is non-negotiable from my perspective vacation I'm flexible I'll
yield to the other Commissioners um I'm not a proponent of policing VOA vacation time I'm a proponent of holding accountability based on the uh your evaluation what you're supposed to do so that's my feedback oh
in terms of the life insurance and professional development I'm not well I'm sorry life insurance and retirement contributions I don't have a counter I just said I would yield to the commission or HR for guidance and professional development I believe
there's a budget line item there so that's my feedback mayor okay um I had some of the similar relocation assistance I can accept a maximum allowance of 8,000 is what I was proposing so I mean I responded to Miss
Jones um and I compensation I stand firm on the maximum amount of base salary approved by the commission um vacation leave relocation support and file Mr Jones proposal due process and termination proceedings I'm fine with what he suggested Severance I stand firm with 10
weeks um and personally the residence thing residency think is a little bit of a Bugaboo for me and I need to get over it but I I think if somebody want to be the city manager for the city but doesn't feel feels living in the city as somewhat beneath them and they're not
going to be willing to pay taxes in the city why would anybody else move to the city and invest in the city you need to be a role model and I had a problem with that frankly um but that that's again my little thing about that um and and that
and the retirement contributions I again thought we should stay with the retirement contributions and plan that we have in the city not the additional request that he asked for anybody else commission well I just
I mean I agree with both the what you you the mayor and our commission Davis um spoke about but I think in terms of uh locking somebody into the city limits uh it it I mean that's the preference we
put maybe the preference in there there but we have I said well s situated similar to like our police officers when they had a problem with recruiting officers we allow our officers to go up to 40 40 nautical
miles situated in that manner to where you have your CEO who have to be restricted to a 10mile area as whereas you making the CEO uh
restrict the 10 miles and then we have people who work for him have or her got 40 m 40 nautical miles what does that look like it looks like somebody leading and being a role model and deciding that the
city is worth them living in and that they can there is in even this County we said 10 miles beyond the county actually there's nothing 10 miles Beyond a count you've got a radius of nothing so it doesn't really accomplish so if you're out of out of the county in that 10 mile
radius you're basically in haste you're in the you in you're in Agricultural and there's nothing wrong with that but that's also available in the county um so I don't know where somebody gains with that concept um yes we had trouble recruiting police
this person is coming here we advertise they applied for the position I think that that's a different somewhat different standard to me but okay go ahead commissioner Jones don't have anything to say speak now old PE bottom line
is we pren thinking people you see it and you guys looking at the contract if youline stand by or move on now I do yeah so that's it let y talk make
decision I'm One V yeah so so mine don't matter right now commissioner cam Campbell my in the previous commission meeting um I'm more so focused on the actual salary
expectation um the rest of it is I can go I can take I'm dead set on the severance I know even in our last negotiation that was something that we stood firm on so I I would not want to see that lead the vacation time again
accountability the amount of relocation I didn't like the breakdown of in the city without the I didn't I didn't care for the breakdown of his counter with regards to um the 15 within the city limits 10 within the postal address of the city
outside the city limits and a 5,000 relocated Beyond this I I didn't care for that um and so my real focus is the actual number that he's willing to
accept overall which I think is counter of base salary 193627 is something that I'm not willing to do I'm not willing to put our citizens in that situation so I guess because we need to
give direction moving forward what do we want to say basically that we're going to C with the 170 which he's already aware of um how do we want to move forward collectively I'm interested in knowing
how so and it may be up to the commission well it is up to the commission when do we actually draw the L the Line in the Sand and say yay or nay do we want to take a vote before we take a vote I guess my
question is do we counter something huh I thought that's what it was I'm talking about if we make this the counter which I'm not against with the performance b i with the performance grade or whatever this is oh I'm still
at this my if this is the last counter or if we're looking to oh yeah that that's what I'm trying to determine oh for me it's my line and sand the salary the counter the counter whatever we count C if it's not accepted to me
that's a Line in the Sand you do your counter what you well that's what we've got to decide we have to decide I'm just saying whatever we counter what he comes back from me that's I don't have anything else so it's two things that well at least what
I'm hearing for consideration um is the compensation and over all [Music] um Severance in relocation I think we're
pretty much set on Severance that we all agreed with the uh 10,000 we have to also come up with the relocation allocation um we heard 10,000 and we heard 8,000 um we have to determine which if those either of those work for
the commission or neither or we remain the same so those are two of the things from the conver ation that I've taken away that we need to make a decision on and then kind of go from there you ask my me on that I did say
the 10,000 relocation 10 week sance as we did previously the 20 days vacation I was okay with that as everybody else down there and uh I'm flexible with the insurance uh
the the uh range I agree with commission B we have officers that can live 45 miles away how do we have the supervisor restrain 10 miles outside listen we got to live in the city so he
chose that and he chose a job he chose to apply for this job too I mean that's okay but you also look at I mean again when when does it start when does it end somebody's got to we've got to start changing that
whole kind of process about p is not good enough to live in um well that's what it comes across as to the community the people that live here the people that pay taxes you know we have a person that always say we want put them in pak's best and brightest that don't even
live in Paka so let let's talk about well thank you we say that I mean this the truth we have people that say that and so would you miss a person just because of that I mean no I ain't so you don't know what I'm about to say
I say because of you know the housing situation that we do have currently you know but again just to count of your point not to make a make a point for this person I'm just saying so you make that statement
as if we have plentiful housing and it's up to everybody's standard um that they're accustomed to and I just don't have a problem with it that's all I'm saying yeah well and in the contract though we did say within 10 miles of the county and that he wasn't
disputing that but he C he we got answer if we going to answer the count just go I like to stay with that so where's everybody I don't know what anyone else thinks what's originally proposed in the contract let's let's be specific at what
his counter was his counter to what we said was 15,000 to move within the city limits 10,000 for Palaca postal address outside the city limits and then 5,000
for relocation beyond the city limits so I think but so if we count of we don't have to go by what Heath said no no no no because we were talking about the the distance and all of those things but I wanted to make sure that we
key in on what the recommendations were because it's going to play a part in that portion of re reallocation relocation assistance so if we if we coun and say for relocation just like we put in the original it says
5,000 if our counter says we our counter can say de forone attorney West we allow $10,000 relocation period that's it we don't have to address that other I'm not a no what I was I get what
you're saying but I wanted to make sure because we're talking about what the police department how they let so it's irrelevant at this point because that's not a part of the counter it's either inside the city limits outside the city limits so those are the things to take in consideration he doesn't say anything
about extending it beyond beyond the right so that's not an issue right I didn't say it was I said 10,000 I'm okay with 10,000 relocation period that was just a point that commissioner born brought up and I said I agreed with it
so that yeah I didn't bring that up as something else so I'm I'm okay with the 10,000 flat rate I can I can compromise on the 10,000 FL so we're at make a motion that we uh
move forth with that portion of uh relocation assistance to the $10,000 flat rate and a maximum of the salary maximum staying with what we offered think we got have one at a
time one item at a time one item at a time however you want I'll just address that one because that what we a second motion a second um for the relocation cost all time that I got question right
now on that okay just HR for reference so if what is the rate of I think we look at 4% so what percent is that from that count of off our first
offer what is that do you know the amount I fin 162 well she's doing that there are some unknown fiscal impacts on the request for the retirement benefit
I beyond the pension which is a very generous pension that's what I said I think we need to stick to the existing pension and not again what he proposed okay and then the the insurance we also don't understand the fiscal impact of
that just when resp go ahead I think we're wa on a vote percent it's being calculated % more okay anything else we have a motion of
second all in favor I any opposition okay thank you um let's start at one compens compensation and performance-based bonus do we have a motion on that well before the motion I
mentioned um um salary increases at 6 months and 12 months now we didn't talk about what that looks like or how much valuation Performance Based correct we don't got to talk about it now okay because what
can you how can you I mean you don't want to put a number on it and okay performance I just want to make sure okay no no be annual perform our on normal um staff is evaluate on annual
basis for that piece for like the whatever the percentage is right but then I think with this is a special case where we're going to be doing his or her at U the six month and then the one year agree with that that's what
I agree with the performance base but he only gets evaluated once a year like every this is a special case in order to be able to get to where in terms of trying to make the make the package uh to where he's asking for a certain number and we're not willing to do that
number unless we see the performance and and we going you know we commissioner Davis want to do it in a couple increments as it relates to that commission commissioner boram's correct that is what I said I get what you saying but that's going to change the
trajectory of how we evaluate him because again if he gets if he gets evaluated once a year who's going to determine what that performance base is but he's he's getting he's getting
evaluated twice right that's days so what I'm suggesting is there to there is a we have the 180 days which is the six Monon period to get off probation and
then there's a 12-month evaluation what I was proposing is what I said I am not saying you have to agree I was just proposing that 170k base salary with a bonus structure upon agreed upon metrics which we
haven't written yet at 6 months and 12 months for increases that was what I was proposing no I got exactly what you were proposing and again with regards to agree I want to make sure as we move
forward with this performance-based evaluation that again the top how how how does it look because if we're I don't want to put a number on it if we put a percentage on it which is an
increase that will be level to what the what another city employee would be considered as like I don't I get he's a city manager but I I don't think that with regards to Performance it should outweigh any other department that is
eligible for that's why I don't want to put a number and and I'm probably agreeing so I think and again I may we may need direction from HR or legal to clarify I the reason I'm separating this from
any other um staff member is because we're in a contract negotiation for salary at this point yes I think this is the time to do it we're still negotiating salary
I'm just splitting it out that the full amount he's asking for that we not offer upfront as a base salary but to look at getting there based on performance within the first
year secondly after that point then I believe he would move as an employee to whatever the um Max Max or whatever we do at that point
so uh so I'm just that's the point I'm trying to make and in my rationale again we've gone through all of this process to evaluate and look no we do not know once someone gets here how they perform
hence the probationary period I think the onus is on the commission to ensure that we hold whoever takes this job accountable to do the things that we have to Define that
they need to do which is where the Miss has been in the past so while I do get the hesitancy because the city's been bitten over and over and over again but at some
point we have to make strides toward making the best decision we can managing that decision holding the person accountable and if they're not to be accountable for what they should be we take the appropriate action
in that time I don't want to operate from a point of fear from a point of failure I think we should do everything we can going into this with a position of success and we can only do that by
clarifying what the expectations are and what they must do and holding them accountable so I can I say this and the reason I'm saying this and you say not to operate but you have to think of History history we went into this the
last time without clear expectations so if we are in the negotiation process and we don't have what those clear expectations are and we make a counter it puts us in a position
back to where we were last time that's where my hesitancy come in but I think that's exactly what she's saying that's so we would have that in place so if you if you provide me like you say I wasn't finished okay if you provide me with a contract and it
tells me that performance-based evaluation at the six-month Mark I'm forget the year and I'm going into it not knowing how I'm supposed to perform those were the same exact conversations
we had when we were trying to negotiate on what we got to the evaluation component of our last city manager there is nothing to hold him to that's where I'm concerned about if we present this to him the time frame in which we get
him what it is that we are that we are holding him accountable for we don't have it am I making sense abut am I making sense I want to make sure you're making sense so you want me to sign a
contract based on the thought and nothing that is tangible and written down on what I'm supposed to perform off of but that's what we're doing we're not because we don't even have the meeting this is going to be something that goes back to him prior to the meeting that we
asked for to have to go over the evaluation maybe I'm confused I want to get clarification we don't have anything right now well I think that's what that's that's my point that's I mean even if we said 170 and forget the performance base we don't have anything
right now and we're we had a meeting tonight to get it in place correct I'm conf so but I'm again I'm concerned conf you are am and it's fine but I know I I know the I know what held
us up or what we had to there is nothing that there is nothing in place to hold someone accountable for and we talk about performance base agreed and shame on us all I'm saying it has to be the B us is on us we can control that
but I do I do understand you're saying at the point of sub submitting a contract it's not written in the contract what he'll be held accountable to exactly and he said for time for sake of time we can't hold him accountable for something or hold him up from
another opportunity if we're not clear on what it is that we want say for instance we present him with it and again I'm not against it I just want to make sure as we proceed I agree if he gives us a counter and say what am I
what what am I being held to we have nothing and then we further push it along the line understood and I guess my point is if what we can provide now is not accepted we have to move on anyway because we're not changing we're saying we're not changing the salary so my
point is I think then we have no more point of negotiation I think that's where I am so I don't know I do hear your point and I do understand it and I think that's what we have to decide here whether to continue
these negotiations or not basically basically that's I mean that's summing that's what it BR down to because if if we are not and then yeah however I understand commissioner Davis's
point and and it's it's plain and I we're on a working document right now we have some of the benchmarks and I know you have some additions look tell tell me if I'm right because I don't I'm
a little confused between the both of you but I do understand both points so what I hear you saying is based on the Matrix that we have and we're gonna basically evaluate him or her own
okay there's the performance that they must meet or exceed these in the six 180 days review and the 12 month review am I right so far so the question is are we gonna at
that form they say Performance Based meaning if they meet or exceeds they will get whatever bonus that we decide or performance uh increase like other employees have at
their six month or their their one year so are the question is is what we have good enough and you saying no that's not what I said I'm asking I just told you asked the question and I gave
you the answer that's not what I said okay so this is not what you're saying but this is the document we've been working on for the last hour and a half so we just been spending our will that's what you're saying mayor just I do want to say
this I hear what you're saying but he's also asking for a salary with none of it too so at some point the city anytime you're hiring we're taking a risk based on the information that was provided in the interview we're making our best
faith effort to give this to him he has to make his decision based on what we're offering and again I want to clarify what I said because I did write it I said offer a base salary of 170k with a bonus structure upon agreed
upon metrics at 6 months and 12 months with agreed upon metrics and so those metrics that that's something he has to decide if he's willing to do if he chooses to come here we then would have to sit down and agree
upon what is needed to meet that bonus at six months and at 12 months that's what I'm proposing no more no less okay we're kind of here at a standoff we've got to move forward we've got to make a decision about whether to continue the negotiations or whether to
not um and I yes I mean you could entertain a motion with that you want make motion yes I move that we counter with a base salary of 170k with a bonus structure upon agree upon metrics at 6
months and 12 months second a motion of second all in favor opposed uh nay uh nay what that nay two Nays three so that passed um a little clarification um I realize
you want the amount of the bonus to be uh not clarified at this point but is there a Max um that you want to set forth in the contract that's what I said from the very beginning I didn't know I don't know what I didn't know so that's what I was trying to understand I still
think the 193 is too high so no we're not going to one and three that's why I asked about a percentage that's why I said what are we trying to get to before we say no he's gonna want to know that I mean he's gonna want to have an idea if it's worth his while could I ask a question go ahead you can sorry so this
a HR question because it appears that we don't know it so what ma'am I didn't understand your question okay but go ahead um so oh I got
so what what is the uh percentage usually in the performance valuation what does it go up to from what to what any employee at this point is receiving is probably like uh seven
eight um can you give us definitive number because it depends on the what's the highest have we given please and the max I guess the one that never went through the city management first of all so
that's the highest pay grade I'm so well the second High be assistant city manager position and that's probably probably eight or nine um from where they were um some a seven yeah eight or N I
would say eight or n to be on the site side um that they would receive on an annual for an annual for for an annual um valuation yeah that's a
little that's little bit depends on on what on what you're making so if you um are taking and moving to the next step and your salary is already at 150 and you add I move to the next step which is going to be I don't know maybe 159 or
something so you're G to get that percentage in there and it's different for somebody that's all at 34,000 and they move to 34 five six like that I thought the normally state is normally run around 5% 5% increase it goes up it's up to
about like I said and and I do have that on the worksheet to give you more um definitive numbers on% of 170 is 15,300 so we're already up to 80 185 300 at the six month six month Mark excuse me so my my question is you're right
with the motion we had without numbers can we go in and put AAP correct the motion is done I I know that that's why I'm asking so what I am going to ask the Commissioners for if you have a question I need you come straight with the
question that is a Max and we did not say the percentage so that but it is working knowledge that we would know did I not ask am I right so if you say the metrics um because what yeah what your motion was I believe one time please um that it's a metrics so if your metrics
is 2 3% increase at six then that's where you would set it and it's not based on what you're getting on an annual evaluation because you're moving this differently at six months and then you're moving it at a year I just need to know so I can put it in the office
okay so we probably need to clarify that though that's what I asked for it was claric my Max is going to be not above 189 so we calculate that out to I mean the increment the question is what does
that well if you said 189 you do the split if you do the split I'm asking for your procedure dire so you you have a motion now that you have supplemented because I asked a question for clarification my
understanding is right you have a counter at 170 a bonus structure I've agreed upon metrics in 6 months and 12 months with a cap of 189 suggest that is the motion clarify that that is the motion
I'm clarifying that is the motion have a second so well do we have a second okay I guess it that motion I second it because it don't have to go to the
max I mean say evaluation you give them I second so okay we have a motion is there any further question discussion we have a motion to second
all in FA I have I have a comment about my motion I gave my rationale when I talked about the amount per head I gave it early on [Music]
um so that that's all I can say okay we have a motion a second all in favor opposed nay okay and then to clarify the severance remains at 10 weeks vacation is fine um
the retirement and insurance requests since you're taking this bit by bit if we could also get that in the form of a motion um to decline the proposal for the retirement of the the life insurance both for both
um my opinion is to decline what is what's the thoughts of everybody else decline do you want a motion on that yes please that's how you've been doing it so I would just suggest keeping consistent with your format yes is anybody want to so um is the SE is it
you said the insurance and the retirement contribution like to make a motion to um decline the insurance and the what's the second retirement insurance and the retirement uh settlement the proposed proposed
settlement second motion a second all in favor I any opposition thank you and then just one last change that was made in the counter page Five Section 8 paragraph
C um he put March 1st 2026 2 that that's what it was um do you want to kick that kicking it back to 2025 would be an alignment with the uh motion made by commissioner Davis
so yes I I'll need a motion to go ahead and revise this make motion to revise the date to March 1st 2025 second motion is second all in favor I any opposition thank you hold on one second while we just make sure we've
got clean up on them um yeah section8 um section a um where we had that language of the first six months 180 days um of the city managers employed shall be that was taken out um he removed that um where employment
shall be Pro probationary period the city commission shall meet with the city manager to conduct a performance evaluation and our before the 100 days that language was removed um do we want to accept that no do you want a um a motion on that
yes somebody want to make a motion on that Peri language remains as we present it a second motion a second all in favor I any opposition thank you anything else that we've missed just can you give us a
minute please and while we're talking about it may I say something while we talk about the contract go ahead um in in the contract I think uh city managers are hell harmless if they just do pretty much anything they got they gota I mean
they can they can go out and do whatever and they are hell harmless in the um event that they do the city really held that up I mean put in a a very bad
predicament in terms of uh having that language in there so we might want to look at it and consider you know taking that whole harmless out because if they're they can be Reckless well let's wait till m w I
just think about that the whole harmless because you can get a bad city manager they can they can really wreck the city go ahead uh we just don't have the same copy of the counter so we're trying to reconcile
that okay so of the 10 change they're sing with a 10 a compensation oh here it is it just dropped down okay let me just are we G to wait for commissioner to yes I guess because we won't we don't want
to have to repeat it makes more sense to wait [Music] that's get even in that probationary period right [Music] million
no oh no it's 2000 addition 2000 okay hold on right that was declined did what about the insurance got it addition they declined
that they agreed to that I'm sorry what what we call it um it's not formal form nicely dressed casual dress yeah not like not well we didn't want to have to go
over again there the females um should we just double let's go ahead and double check okay just a few more things for clean up and clarification under Section five paragraph a he added
some additional terms um regarding prior to taking a vote to terminate any objection to those terms um that was with a 30-day notice right I didn't have any objection to them seem reasonbly anybody else
and in section five C he deleted um the 180 days of employment basically he would be entitled to Severance um during his probationary period yeah
no okay so add that back I think we just yeah voted on that okay and section seven there's a reference to his bonus structure being the metric being area
Vibes statistics as a key performance indicator do you want that to be your metric or not um I I can't I can't I mean we can we can we can look at it I don't want it to be the only
right yeah I think it it's it's one one tool right right in combination yeah so you know in addition there may be other this in addition use the metrics
okay that is all I have um and then the I will go ahead and um make these revisions to the contract and circulate it back to Mr Jones um I'll do that first thing in the morning 'll get out
the door before 9:30 um however what is your deadline for his response I well I'm real estate was say within 24 hours but what once he receives it but what do we think it's reasonable this is Wednesday already I
think we want a response by Friday don't we close the business Friday maybe what what everybody else talk have morning you will have it in the morning you said yes sir and um we
also are going to have to discuss what happens if this doesn't happen it's a close the business Friday right it's gonna be the weekend anyway again Monday Monday okay Monday because you're not come do we want to give him till Monday now why don't you guys make a motion
somebody make a motion please okay are you gonna make a motion you do that I I'll make a motion that we have Mr Jones or Mr Redmond Jones to respond by no later than noon
Monday Monday happen to Friday well if we do it Friday we're still gonna be Monday anyway like commissioner Jones just mentioned or the close the business what we going to do close the business because I mean we're not giving
we're not given I move that we give a deadline of close of business on Friday second motion a second all in favor I any opposition okay yeah I think that's too
long because we need to make some decisions as well based on his so where were you going you was about to make a well I was just saying at this point because we we have an unknown here as to how he's going to receive this and how he's going to respond but we need to come up with our plan B soon too I don't
know if this is something want to do now or at this meeting we going to have soon about um further developing the performance appraisal tool but um we need to do this soon I mean I'm not optimistic on him
accepting this I'm sorry um so yeah I think we to think about that we can go on to the next agenda item while we ponder that okay and in the meantime we'll have the clerk look at some dates yes because we do that sooner than later
okay okay um go ahead Miss West the next uh emergency agenda item is uh the approval of the 2025 blue crb Festival event agreement um our interim city manager Miss cardi uh met with
today to hammer out some of the issues um and we have consensus and uh Miss Janetta has approved of uh what we have put on the table so um I will quickly go through this unless you've already had a
chance to review any questions no okay um the dates are going to be kept to a three-day weekend um we are going to require that RQ music provide the fire extinguishers every 75 ft along St John's Avenue but
you'll see later on in the contract that we're going to be responsible for all the city staff fees um and emergency services and so forth um Al before you go that far have you calculated what those fees be yes sir that was provided
in the staff report that you had on Thursday I believe it was about 36,000 36,000 yes or 25 no 36 um moving forward to the next page um she has agreed that within 36 hours of
the conclusion of the festival um all the festival paraphernalia will be completely removed from Municipal property there is not going to be an increase in the amount of money that the city is paying it was the 50,000 that
was paid back in September it's not going to increase um we are going to have three National acts um I did inquire commissioner Jones as to what those Acts were going to be however she does not release that she would never
apparently release the name of the ACT until much closer to the event time probably in April um Fireworks shall be provided by the city at our sole discretion at our
expense and the um porta potties will be split did you say the cost of the port parties would be split and finally in the event of termination uh sorry I'm looking for
that on page three either party May terminate and and upon termination RQ music shall return any unused funds to the city and provide an accounting of all expenditures um there was one last thing about intellectual
property um the city may use pictures postevent memorabilia in a non-commercial Manner and the city does not retain the rights to the events intellectual property any questions so t-shirts and things of that
nature all belong to her that what I said we can't sell them we can't sell them [Music] um this is general information question her ask was to make this happen from us in
the beginning was 25,000 more dollars that's cor 75 total so but now going to basically pay 36,000 plus the share of the pter potties right when we need to know what
is the portter party so now we don't do we know the split cost in terms of the number of Port Port part work that out I'm I'm sure both parties when they agreed to that I wasn't privy to that discussion I'm sure it was a
5050 well I understand that the that piece but the thing right it is the 50/50 what is the number number 5050 what is that number well they haven't been ordered yet but the estimate that staff provided based upon last year's Festival was 5,000 so you're right at almost 40,000
41 41,000 total additional dollars over the 50 originally agreed upon but here we are we're the organizer already has the first 50
correct and well an organizer have all the money that she requested in the original contract I'm not happy with it either but I'm just saying what you know so we we're not getting a deal right there so I think we need to really think
this out in the future from here on I mean I don't know what we want to do today this is only for a for the 2025 Festival there is no automatic renewal um I specifically work that into this contract to give the commission an
opportunity to negotiate for future eses okay how would we like to proceed we have a motion to accept this contract to move forward or not I'll make a motion that we move forward this is what we asked them to
take back to to um AR music um so if we had any qualms at it at that time we should have voiced it this is something um that we need to move forth with our citizens are looking forward with looking forward to it um and again thank
you for working into the non renewal um so that we would have the opportunity um I do believe that there are some things on the cities in that we could have done different after um with regards to debriefing and making sure that the commissioner was the commission was AB
breed a lot sooner than we were but for sake of this year's Festival I'll make the motion that we EXA a second a motion a second all in favor I opposed um and I really think the
fireworks component is something we should pass on for this year of that additional cost but that's just me so we're not you say not I'm suggesting we don't because we we were responsible for that cost on top of the additional costes where costs that we are absorbing
already but I don't know no matter how it goes it wouldn't have been good but we don't want we don't want citizens to suffer at the I think it's the lesser of two evils but we don't want people to hamstring us
either get us get us to the door and then and then and then switch out that that's another thing that people and we need to next finish me finish we just don't want people to get us to the door and they know that we gonna say say yes if they
tweak the number to what what they want it to be because we don't want to let the citizens down no they're letting the citizen down and next year we need to have a backup plan or either we need to move on with a different um um venue with um an Entertainment Group attorney
West made sure that the door was closed thank you thank you um anything else that we need to you say we were GNA Circle back we were going to circle back and the question was whether we are going to discuss the second the backup plan for city manager are we going to do
that now or are we going to do that when we get together next week um if we can get together next week um Madam cook mayor um if I may uh Tuesday on on the 25th is wide open we can have it any
time during that day or we or we could wait till March 3rd and the reason why there's a break there is because everybody's gone for the weekend for the fcbc I mean the FBC ELO
conference um so I suggest Tuesday the 20 the 25th if it's possible with y'all and you can like I said it's open so I can do the 25th what about anybody
else I'm ailable on 25th I won't be in town um just made the woman in the day do what time what time on 2 that was up for discussion what time I'm I'm f with the
afternoon um yes I'm sorry I don't have pension meetings so on my calendar roughly or until 5 this what is on the and I'm not available from around 11:30
to 1:30 well since it's on the agenda can we speak on it briefly if we could it's not going to be brief that was my concern well but but we're here a whole another day is is a totally
different thing I mean people took time out right now to be here so um in respect to everyone's time keep on task and not go on we just say what we going to do and and move on it doesn't matter uh I don't think it'll take that long to
make that determination on it don't optimistic um commissioner Campbell my statement was and has remained if he does not accept we keep things going as though they are commissioner Jones can we clarify
that a little bit because I we keep things as though they are and then we determine if he does not accept I had no second I have no problem with who we have serving in the capacity as interm right now that would have been my request I made the request during the
time frame when the Mr Thomas Thomas dropped out that she'd be brought up for consideration being that she was our fourth uh across the board so I don't have a problem with her remaining at this time M Jes
um May I'm actually I asked to get your direction since you're the chair of this board I want to know what direction that you would like to see us go in so that versus our own opinions I think I mean I'm okay give I was going to give my
input at the end I was letting a bus give their thoughts first before we go um just so that um we hear everybody's thoughts your got us s your leadership at this time what what's being question I actually concur with commissioner cam
and think we should just move forward and um we have an inter city manager um with if we were to go forward with having that person become the permanent city manager um instead of the interim and backfilling her position so that
gives her the ability to focus entirely on this job I think we should give that opportunity and will our probationary period the clock would start again um any things that any issues that had to be addressed would need to be addressed um but I think that that would be that's
I think that's the best Direction commissioner Bor well you you you skipped over well he wanted me to skip over come on y'all come on come on commissioner Jones what are your thoughts I gave mine you asked my thought and my leadership and that was
what I think so what yours I think we had a proc proc that we put in place to even bring into a consultant to help HR with this process
and we are where we are we have vetted candidates and I think we had over 18 of them apply based upon their rankings with HR
and the consult we interviewed that staff interview bought people in and we have the top three that came out of that
pool um or rather it's the top four or however you want to put it um but I think that we should have been clearer in how we was going to do this in the beginning that's why I'm asking today because next week it may change um
so we we we would I would have liked for it to be clear where we were going to go that's why I asked that question early on so um you know we asked I think you gave the direction of rank them between one to three and we did that so here we
are I'm gonna sck with my one two and three and uh how we do it is going to be at the pleasure of this board is M well again um we we did agree on the process and
commissioner Jones is absolutely correct um even after the one 123 when we did our our rankings um I tried to make a motion at the time to add
um a fourth and that was uh Miss cardi and um I think uh there was a vote that we're not changing the process and that's on in the recording and because
this it was communicated that we have we want to stick with the process we don't want to change and now it look like we're changing and then we also we Circle back around and we did select our we said we're going to have a a top and
a backup that's what we agreed on and now we're backing out of that so what do we really want B may I make a response go ahead go ahead commissioner Campbell it's it's on the record let me get my
feedback so we had a process we followed the process totally I think where there may be some disagreement is on when we chose a one
two three I think we chose the top three um to come for the interview and then after the in-person interviews we then had a one two three we had a consensus a full cons consensus on who
was our number one that we wanted to offer I did not take that to mean that number two was a backup I just think we were trying to get to our number one is the way I understood the process as for
me we chose the three candidates to invite for an in-person interview based on performance in the zoom interview when the three candidates came in person for me only one stood out and
that's who we made an offer to the other two for me were no longer an option based on the information provided in person I do not see them as either of them as a fit for Paca at this time as a
city manager to that point I'm going to recommend and that um in line with commissioner Campbell that we continue as we are and that we're going to have to go
back out and start the process to get um to to get a city manager again so that's where I am and um that's it okay was that what you were
okay well I when I say as we are um I get the rush but uh and and to commissioner borne's point the motion that he made the reason because prior to the interview I the
first question I asked was were we going to give consideration to an inhouse person generally when you're going through an interview process consideration is given to in-house that was turned down hence the reason why no additions were made um
as far as where we are now and I I concur with the whole situation about the number one that was the number one that we all came up with and I stated in the meeting for the record I don't have a number two and if
we don't have if we don't go with who we went with as far as the candidate Mr Jones I was going to Resort back to keeping things the same as they they are now go ahead commission mayor I would like to
say if we do land with things remaining the same with an interim we have to set some goals we have to establish something because this has gone on for a period of time and we
have some things that need to be addressed immediately and I think that's where I'm getting to because we talk about the process the process the process the process the process and I get that we have a process but we also have to take in consideration we have citizens of Palaca that we are
accountable for and if we are a part of the process and we see that the process does not work necessarily for us there should be a consensus if we take in consideration any deviations from the process so again there's a commissioner
Jones makes a lot of valid points but then again Midstream mainstream when we identified that some things may not have been ironed out completely we decided to continue to go on with the process without knowing with knowing that we
could get to the end and it could possibly again appear That's why I was so concerned about the dropping out because that wasn't a part of the process but we still had to address it and we addressed it in a form that allowed all of us to have our say so I
wholeheartedly agree for the sake of time uh if if we are looking to move forward because I believe that the mayor has already um gave her feedback I want us to bring this to an end okay with that said what's the final
consensus as far as moving forward um and do we and we also have to ask the person in question if she's willing to continue to do that first got to count offer that we know that but I'm just
saying this this is be that in case yeah this is all in case though we need to have again we we're sitting here we extended the meeting to discuss this we need to have a conclusion to that um which includes asking asking the interm
city me if she wants to continue in that iffy role and and have her be filling two positions and so on and so forth so how do we want to proceed do we want to do that if we are not able to
negotiate a contract with the our Top Choice Jones you ask us to stay so give us some give you give you some guidance on that I think after you guys have wased your position I think we need to wait until
the offer is accepted or rejected first and then because of the fact you're putting the car before the horse I think that's you are because unless you guys just go ahead and hard F and say hey this where we are I mean almost the vote
is already here because yeah because let's be honest be honest with you I don't want to yeah Jones you you did it no no I did it because I said I want to know what the process all that other that that was some stuff that if I was applyed for the
job my my decision would been made you know um based upon conversations and uh okay motion to adjourn I have a motion to adjourn in a second
finish funny it's not funny not funny at all you laugh but