WEBVTT METADATA Video-Count: 1 Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ofq9udYIk NOTE MEETING SECTIONS: Part 1 (Video ID: b0Ofq9udYIk): - 00:00:00: Concerns Regarding First Presbyterian and Unhoused Support - 00:02:25: Annexation of Enclaves: Goals and Initial Overview - 00:04:28: Florida Statute 171: Annexation Legal Procedures, Benefits - 00:07:14: Enclaves Defined; Prioritizing Bay Leaf as a Model - 00:11:16: Socioeconomic Data for Bay Leaf Area Analysis - 00:13:10: Existing Utilities; Water and Sewage Availability - 00:14:02: Discussion of Water Mains and Future Extensions - 00:18:26: Water Extension Costs, Household vs. Utility Customers - 00:20:33: Sewer Line Locations and Annexation Expenses - 00:22:08: Incentives and Considerations for Annexation Program - 00:22:57: Lift Station and Gravity Discussion of Sewer System - 00:24:27: Growing Pains, City Services Bypassing Annexation Areas - 00:25:48: Grant Funding Opportunities for Septic to Sewer - 00:27:57: Public Comment: Commissioner Jones on Annexation Needs - 00:28:29: Public Comment: Commissioner Bowden on Annexation Growth - 00:30:40: Public Comment: Commissioner Upson on Showing New Mains - 00:32:34: ISBA with County and Peacemeal Annexation Strategy - 00:33:54: Prioritizing Annexation of Areas Surrounded by City - 00:35:13: Police and Fire Department Impact of Annexation - 00:37:24: Mayor's Support for Moving Forward with Annexation - 00:37:57: Public Comment: Clarifications and Thoughts on Shelter - 00:42:54: Vacant Properties: Potential Redevelopment Overview - 00:44:51: Clarifying Lot Sizes and Grandfathering Regulations - 00:47:22: Seeking More Detailed Identifiable Vacant Lots Data - 00:50:10: Buildable Commercial Lots and Design Review Criteria - 00:51:11: Perfecting Information and Adding More Helpful Legends - 00:52:17: Live Local Act and Identification of Affordable Housing - 00:53:04: Previously Voted Lots for Affordable Housing; ADU Ordinance - 00:54:56: Updated Information and Seeking Board Guidance on Vacant Lots - 00:55:28: Properties Sold; Explanation of the Land Swap - 00:57:12: Closing Vacant Lots Discussion and Meeting Adjournment Part: 1 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:17.119 learn that I'm just totally against it. That's not it, Sarah. So, I don't want to be in the paper like that. That is not it because you remember last our last meeting. I did not even comment and it was on purpose. 2 00:00:17.119 --> 00:00:33.440 I I I believe in it. But what I here's some things I didn't understand. First Presbyterian Church was trying to help with this situation. They were helping but we the same city of Palaka 3 00:00:33.440 --> 00:00:48.879 went down there and dropped code enforcement on them >> and they were not allowed to do same thing we're doing just providing a place. So if we had I just want to say this I'm just saying what I get and then looking into it. It do seems like that. 4 00:00:48.879 --> 00:01:07.119 So I wanted to be transparent. So, uh, we could have did the same thing, reszone them. They could have got resone. We could have helped with financing, uh, along with Rise, giving their resources to First Presbyterian. But the key, let's be 5 00:01:07.119 --> 00:01:22.799 real, we didn't want it downtown. And I'm okay with that. But I think we just need to be open and say that's just that's it. So, we'll found them another place. And I'm I promise you I'm done with that situation. But I'm not against helping the unhoused. That's one thing. 6 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:38.240 >> And the reason for the the First Presbyterian is they didn't have a fire suppression system and the liability was so great for everybody involved, including the buildings nearby. Um given the age of construction, if there were a fire, lives would be lost and additional damage could be done. But that was the 7 00:01:38.240 --> 00:01:53.520 issue and the reason for the code violation. It was the lack of a fire suppression system. So it's not quite the same. Not to mention we did give them one year to actually be there. Also, >> may I speak? Miss, >> go ahead. 8 00:01:53.520 --> 00:02:09.759 >> And to go on record, Sarah. So, >> Sarah, no. Code enforcement. The the city the code enforcement did not go out to the neighborhood and the community in that neighborhood brought it to code enforcement. >> We know that. 9 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:25.520 >> I should have said it, right? >> We know there was a complaint and we I never mind. I know who. So, >> all right. We can move on. >> Thank you. Thank you everybody. >> And you'll come back to us at a commission meeting with the details about the building there. >> Okay. Thank you. 10 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:48.080 >> On to annexation, >> please. Thank you, >> Mr. Agama. >> Another fun time topic. This workshop deal with the annexation specifically the enclaves as you know uh the commission directed us to look into 11 00:02:48.080 --> 00:03:04.560 a program of annexation of eliminating the enclaves. >> Mhm. >> Um and the elimination it is a policy of the state to eliminate all anes because you know of the uh the lack of 12 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:20.959 efficiency that we have in the provision of utilities and services. in the enclaves. Uh we tried to address this in the past. Um one of the tools the best way to address the enclave was through an inter 13 00:03:20.959 --> 00:03:38.640 local service boundary agreement with the county. We forward this idea to them. We presented at the city county uh joint meeting and there was not a lot of interest part of the county pursuing such agreement. Uh the purpose of this 14 00:03:38.640 --> 00:03:55.280 workshop is to just to explore a little bit in more detail uh what is it it is about the annexation the enclaves what are the benefits to the city what benefits to to to the property owners and also we would like to know since we 15 00:03:55.280 --> 00:04:11.200 have a lot of enclaves wanted to prioritize which area we like to to tackle first. uh to that purpose, you know, we look into the bay leaf uh >> area 16 00:04:11.200 --> 00:04:28.160 as a model for us to see what consideration we have to take into before we embark into a program to annex. So I'm going to go a little bit quickly. You know, I have a PowerPoint presentation um 17 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:44.720 and I'm going to go through as quickly as I can. First annexation procedure by the state uh it is governed by Florida statute 171 is also known as the municipal annexation or contraction act and there 18 00:04:44.720 --> 00:05:01.759 are two common ways to do the annexation in the state. voluntary annexation uh which is the most common method and is originated by a petition by the property owner to annex into a municipality. 19 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:17.680 The other one is the involuntary annexation which is a process that requires a referendum of votes of the register body within that area. Most of the time it's more than 50% of the vote in order to get annex. 20 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:35.440 And the requirement for annexation basically very simple. The land has to be reasonably compact and it has to have a continuous boundary with the municipality that's going to be anx into it. The legal procedure 21 00:05:35.440 --> 00:05:51.440 for the annexations is municipality is required to qualify by adopting an ordinance to annex the city. I mean to annex the the area and we must follow obviously uh public notice 22 00:05:51.440 --> 00:06:09.120 advertising and hearing requirements that are very specified in the statute. We looked a little bit what the volunteer annexation uh benefits would be for the property owner. We identify a few and I say these aren't the only 23 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:26.000 ones. Uh the main one is that parcel can connect to centralized water and sewage. We a lot of cases a requirement for development especially big developments are required to to to hook into water and sewer services. 24 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:42.240 We believe the high quality and more frequent services to the area uh better public participation in the local government uh more efficient police and fire responses and a strong compliance with municipal 25 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:58.080 codes which at the end protects property values. The main benefits to the city increased tax base and revenue and we have more uniformity within the city limit which increase the efficiency of 26 00:06:58.080 --> 00:07:14.400 providing the services like police, fire, trash collection etc. I want to touch a little bit about the anklate. Uh basically an in is it an 27 00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:29.440 unincorporated area that is surrounded completely by the boundar of the city and uh usually is often targeted for mandatory annexation. As I said, you know, it is the policy in the state to eliminate all the angle in the state of 28 00:07:29.440 --> 00:07:46.360 Florida. And the basic goal of uh the monetary annexation is like I said before is the elimination of service delivery inefficiencies that we have when you have with enclaves. 29 00:07:47.199 --> 00:08:06.319 This area can be annexed via interlocal agreement. I mentioned the ISBA or a special ordinance if the anchor is less than 10 acres. Such annexation often requires 60% voter referendum approval if the anklet is 30 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:24.560 fewer or smaller than 25 acres. I'm sorry, 25 votes. We just go over a little about the legal definition. Uh it is what is written in the statute. I'm going to just pass a little bit. 31 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:41.839 uh the contiguity requirements uh usually is prohibited in in Florida. However, it does permit voluntary annexation of enclave if there are contiguous and there are compacts and obviously if it doesn't create 32 00:08:41.839 --> 00:08:59.680 another enclave sometimes there are places in Florida that I seen before that they would annex into an an eclipse and create another one sometimes smaller one but they create another that's not permitted by state touch we do have like I mentioned earlier um a 33 00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:15.600 lot of ankliffs in the city and We felt that we needed to prioritize in order to see back on our program you know we can uh embark and for that purpose we selected the bay villa as a model area just for the 34 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:34.080 purpose of discussion and analysis. The next one. Yeah. So this is the enclave or we call it Bailey enclave. In reality uh this existing enclave have many subdivisions in it. Baileyville is just 35 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:50.320 one of them. There are seven subdivision with this enclave. Bay Leaf Gleason Wells Pinehurst Balaca Grove Shadow Lawn Heights and 36 00:09:50.320 --> 00:10:07.200 it was very difficult to obtain you know socioeconomic data for this particular area that we're looking at. So uh we have to look into the census track census data and census track 4 37 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:24.959 is the this anklay is within census track number four uh it's a large track you can look at the next map if you see this is census track number four and the bay leaf and the whole 38 00:10:24.959 --> 00:10:40.800 anklay is within this area a lot of these area is undevelop is not developed. So uh I think for the purpose of our analysis I think we can rely on the socioeconomic data that we have for this track. I think it would serve as a 39 00:10:40.800 --> 00:10:57.440 reference uh for the rest. Roughly this enclave is about just over 355 acres. Um the bay leaf anklay contain mostly 50 by 100 wide lots. 40 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:16.399 with some variation of course uh usually have 30 feet wide dedicated right away and they're all platted in blocks with corresponding numbers. Next. So, some of the information that we 41 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:30.720 found in in the census track uh for which this ankle is part of. Uh the area has about almost 4,000 people and a total of about 1500 households. 42 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:48.959 Uh the average has an average of 2.61 61 uh people per household which is higher than the national average which is 2.53. There are just about 1500 employed people and an 43 00:11:48.959 --> 00:12:10.600 unemployment of 3.2 and the wealth index is 33 which is way lower than the national average. We also look at the income data. The average income uh for Florida is $69,670 44 00:12:10.959 --> 00:12:27.680 a year. The medium income for this enclave or this census track is 46, $179. And therefore, you know, this track qualifies as a lowincome community per 45 00:12:27.680 --> 00:12:49.920 the census. Other data is like poverty indication indicator. Um in the area there's about almost 4,000 people know uh poverty is determined about 1500 just over 1500 are below the 46 00:12:49.920 --> 00:13:10.240 federal poverty line of 42.2%. Now the next thing we wanted to to look into is uh the existing of uh utilities the water utilities and and sewage lines uh in 47 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:27.680 this enclave and for that we did a we had this map. What you see in blue are the lines where the water mains are which is near the bay leaf and this enclave but it obviously doesn't go in 48 00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:43.360 the water main stations. Uh this next slide just shows you know if we were if the city were going to annex this enclave these are the kind of uh water m that we would have to provide 49 00:13:43.360 --> 00:14:02.079 in order to provide services of water and sewer to the anate to the to the enclave. >> You see it? >> This is so good. >> Yes. 50 00:14:02.079 --> 00:14:32.880 I'm looking. >> Okay. Can you go to the previous slide? >> Yeah, I have red here. It's here, you know, to go over in more detail if you need to. But that one shows where the mains are. That's correct. Yes. 51 00:14:32.880 --> 00:14:59.199 >> 17 yellow just so you could see the where 17 was for the dividing line. >> Right. So I see AC >> AC notes this kind of pipe the line on old 52 00:14:59.199 --> 00:15:28.959 Jacksonville was Yes, sir. >> Mexico. Um, no. That's where um, for lack of a better word, the Handyway is and RNJ, it's not RJ Power now, but where 53 00:15:28.959 --> 00:15:51.680 >> the uh, lawnmower place is. >> And they had >> Okay. >> All the extensions are done by people that needed extensions. They paid to have them done, >> right? >> Yeah. Like for instance, James when James A. Long was built in 1960, James 54 00:15:51.680 --> 00:16:13.279 the school board put that 8 inch line down Old Jacks. >> And then the sheriff's office put the water line down 19. >> That's why those lines exist. >> Yes. 55 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:52.560 >> Yes. 17. Yeah. >> Yeah. Was an industrial development. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. >> This one um say 2008 or somewhere in there. I I had 56 00:16:52.560 --> 00:17:08.319 a 8 inch line put in from Reed Street all the way down Dunham all the way to Fourth Street to boost up the entire north side. And then when the new Family Dollar was put in, they board that across the 57 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:40.960 street there. So that's what that gentleman that was in here a few months ago was gonna >> his property >> is just the ditch of the railroad >> keeping him from it like 40 feet or something >> come off 58 00:17:42.080 --> 00:18:25.720 They're they're where this green property is. So, they have to come from either the corner of the ballpark or under the road. >> I'm sorry. >> I'm park. 59 00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:44.480 >> Yeah, the footage was a little I looked at it both ways for them. The footage is longer across the park which makes the cost You're shorter one way, but you have to bore and you're longer the other way, but you 60 00:18:44.480 --> 00:19:15.919 you're grass. So, it's kind of a wash >> about 4,000. Yeah. 1500 households, right? >> Yes. >> Would that translate to 1500 properties or 1500 utility customers? 61 00:19:15.919 --> 00:19:56.960 >> Yeah, those are those are household. Yeah, >> that's what I thought. Oh yeah. >> Yeah. It would have to be voluntary obviously and and the next slide that we were showing was what would be needed in order to extend the the water service to 62 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:33.039 the area to the an Yeah, that one. Not legally. >> There are a couple short runs of two inch in there that Yeah. I can't >> Nobody else can account for it. >> Nobody else can be hooked up to >> So, 63 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:50.880 >> yeah. So, so um this is going to be for our chiefs. you know, we we're extending and I know I want to make sure we understand that even if everyone came in, it is uh a a revenue source, but we 64 00:20:50.880 --> 00:21:12.400 have some associated expenses. Okay. We're not there yet. Okay. All right. I just I have to look out for my chiefs. The next slide, the next uh slide is the sewer just to show you where the sewers are. And it's very busy this slide. Uh 65 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:35.360 but the green line is what shows, you know, the >> the sewer lines, >> the the green one, the green light. So you see, you have to go all the way inside in order to provide And and yes, to that to your point, Commissioner, the last thing that that 66 00:21:35.360 --> 00:21:52.080 Red provided was how much would it cost >> the city to to annex this this enclave and provide the water and sewer and it came out to about about $40 million 67 00:21:52.080 --> 00:22:08.720 versus like what I show you before the socioeconomic data and the ability of the people, you know, to to pay for the services. So, this is the kind of thing that I just wanted the board to to be aware uh before we embark in a program, you know, 68 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:26.240 that we're going to go doortodoor uh trying to entice, you know, property owner to annex into the city. And for that, obviously, we're going to have to have a program that uh will provide incentives, real incentives for them to be interested in coming to the city. And 69 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:43.280 therefore, you know, we need to also consider the cost of us providing those services. And this is just for water and sewer. You know, it doesn't take consideration police, fire. >> So, I think you and that is what you asked, Commissioner Davis. I would like 70 00:22:43.280 --> 00:22:57.679 each police each >> or And that's doesn't take into consideration of the capacity of the pipe. So where do you have to send it to? >> Yeah. 71 00:22:57.679 --> 00:23:18.400 >> Go back to the this one green. >> Yeah. >> So from 17 to 19, you're going to have to put a lift station in to take in this side. We want to call that side 200. 72 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:39.200 So you put in a lift station here to try to put gravity in this whole section. Pump into this horse mane. Where does this horse mane go? >> We have to put a lift station in over here. All of this gra all of this gravity has been extended as far as it 73 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:54.400 can go. The largest force or large gravity line here you see is 18 inch. But it's hard to imagine that this gravity line goes >> all the way to 74 00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:09.919 >> Moody Road and St. John's Avenue. Mount Taper Church is the end of that line. Gravity all the way to Mahulland Park. It's hard to imagine. >> But the hilly train of Pala was their friend when they were trying to lay Gravity Stewart. 75 00:24:09.919 --> 00:24:27.440 So all of that if you can imagine a paca all the way over almost gravity to my home park. So this line here runs very full. So you would be trying to pump all of this side to get into that large line 76 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:43.919 which is running pretty full. >> So that's considered growing pains. If we're growing, that's just like if someone come in and plan to actually again uh to build develop that area. Um 77 00:24:43.919 --> 00:25:01.520 we would consider the same thing. So that's part of if we want to grow. I'm just thinking we have the this area those areas that are surrounded by city properties, city water, sil, but we 78 00:25:01.520 --> 00:25:16.240 bypass them and go all the way out to Francis and provide what you're talking about cost so much and our fire and our police will have to bypass these areas to go out to go out to those the 309 and 79 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:32.240 stuff like that. So, how could we in good conscious say, you know, >> to heck with you guys, we we we're going to spend our revenue out here with people who are not basically surrounded like like like that population 80 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:48.640 >> of city services. >> City hasn't made any of those extensions, but we're paying the price for all the extensions now. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, let's even go even further. We talking about the bargeport. Look at look at what we passed by to get to the bargeport. So we, you know, so we 81 00:25:48.640 --> 00:26:05.440 look at as cost and again we have to find out how to recapture it. That would be something I feel we should really really look seriously into trying to do this. And there's also grant funding. Okay. So I want to go to funding because I'm I didn't say let's just do it 82 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:22.720 without a solution. There is a program other counties we always piggyback from septic to sewer. So I think that's one of the things uh we kind of direct you to bring back. So where is that where where are the stats for for the subject 83 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:38.240 to sewer program as we speak? Matter >> of fact we just spoke about that in a meeting about 10 days ago. So we are still in the midst of it researching it trying to understand how it can apply to us but we are looking at it 84 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:54.720 >> cuz what I know is St. John's and Klay County St. John's inherited a lot of farmland and all in the Hastings area, a lot of acreage out there that down there providing well that's the county providing uh services to and then you have Klay County which was a lot rural 85 00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:11.440 in the Middleberg area and Green Cove. >> So other areas are doing it. >> They're growing. >> We're growing. So we can't just say, you know, we we got these enclaves and you just quoted the statute 171. we we must 86 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:26.159 >> oh yeah >> pay attention to it and do it. So the first thing is when we start talking about the funding and funding our our emergency services, let's look into how they were done >> elsewhere first of all and see how we 87 00:27:26.159 --> 00:27:41.600 can make it happen. >> So that that that's that's what we actually um kind of like charge you guys with doing not just with we know it's going it's going to cost a lot of money but we need to get the money and we need to know how we going to do it. Now, that's just me being an advocate for 88 00:27:41.600 --> 00:27:57.039 trying to make that happen because I'm just gonna tell you, I know a lot of the residents that live out there that's been out for years, they own their properties. And I just had two people call about the septic. I didn't know it cost that much to get a 89 00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:14.080 septic tank done. So, >> it's not good for our aquifer. >> I don't think the sale would be that hard when you start telling, "Hey, listen. >> You wouldn't have to worry about that if you had sew uh city sewer, city water." Um that's just look just trying to help people. So um again if we don't if we 90 00:28:14.080 --> 00:28:29.679 don't look into it shame on us but at least we looking into it. Okay. >> I think we need to explore all the options. >> Absolutely. I do. So >> there's no question about >> Well, I got more of a comment than a question. But you know I I certainly 91 00:28:29.679 --> 00:28:45.840 agree with u Commissioner Jones uh in that regard. I mean, um, we we certainly can't wait until we're forced to do a thing. And I think what we need to do in advance is we we we know we were looking 92 00:28:45.840 --> 00:29:02.640 at these areas. Um and and I know uh Red, you did a good job explaining that, but I think that should have been also part of the information that uh we're provided with this as it relates to what it would take to bring those areas in uh 93 00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:17.679 and and the cost and the various uh options and alternatives. I think that's something that we need to uh be ahead of the curve on as opposed to waiting until something happen because everything else around us is growing. 94 00:29:17.679 --> 00:29:33.600 >> Uh we know that Palaca is growing and Putinham County is growing. So uh you know I just if we can just get that information as it relates what it would cost for us and then again you know the that step the sewer is is a combination 95 00:29:33.600 --> 00:29:48.960 of things. is also environmental, >> you know, uh when those things uh and then from a water test standpoint or you know some sewage leaks and uh among other things. Now they have funding available 96 00:29:48.960 --> 00:30:06.720 on multiple occasions across the years and um again I know that the and not DP may might have been DP but I do know that we was up here even last uh for the for the current um legislative >> legislative session. Uh we were told by 97 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:23.919 our um >> lobbyists that those kind of things are something that we need to pre be pursuing and aggressively so that and it's just coming back around cuz it was a it there was funding years ago $50 million in in the bank for 98 00:30:23.919 --> 00:30:40.559 um cities to start moving that were not up to par or counties to move from septic to sewer. And so that's a awesome point that Commissioner Jones brought up. So >> you want please >> more items to show. >> Okay. 99 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:56.159 >> Can you just at least show even if we weren't um as we're moving forward, you want to explain what >> I I was not going to say that, but you know we have 100 00:30:56.159 --> 00:31:13.760 >> like um >> say from Mosley to Palm Avenue where we changed the uh water man before it was re >> St. John's was repaved >> or anywhere where we're replacing the main >> that's what they look like 101 00:31:13.760 --> 00:31:29.039 >> wherever we stop and we're tying on to the existing this is what we're tying into. >> So we've replaced about 20 miles of mains and we have about 50 to go. We should have >> pretty 102 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:45.600 ting in along and all hust. >> Oh yeah. >> So we can't stop replacing. We have to keep >> Oh yeah. Maintenance is a constant, >> right? >> With getting >> the maintenance replaced. >> Commissioner Bow makes a great point. 103 00:31:45.600 --> 00:32:01.440 Every time we go to tell us about our our pipes and everything. So we've been we've been advocates. Yep. We got 20 >> and that that is showing the 40 million right there that that breakout. Correct. >> Correct. >> What's this? >> And going forward. 104 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:17.360 >> Yeah. Without without considering the police and the fire, >> right? Without >> Well, and they're going to come up and explain what that means or not. And before you and and just to bring back if we capture those 4,000 105 00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:34.000 >> can we have also what the potential in the income will be as well. So so so don't make one number look so big and we not getting anything because this it's going to work itself out. >> We don't know what's going to happen with the legislature you know about property taxes. So >> right but but again let's be ahead 106 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:49.519 >> anytime we've got to plan until we know anything differently. and we've got to plan accordingly with what we have. >> The easiest would have been, you know, for the county to agree with us to go into an ISBA that would facilitate, you know, the process of annexation. 107 00:32:49.519 --> 00:33:05.519 >> Unfortunately, you know, it takes two to tango and you only got one. >> So, we still have to try to move on in spite of that. We tried that. We tried that avenue and right now it's not working. Maybe it will in the future. Um, and how we also need this breakdown for the all the enclaves. We need to 108 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:22.559 know cuz there are several. >> This is just one. >> This is just one and we need to know going forward a plan for all of them as they go forward. Go ahead. >> Legally moving forward in the absence of an ISBA with the county, the only legal method for us to move forward with the 109 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:38.559 annexation of this enclave is for it to be peacemeal 25 lots by 25 lots at a time. we are not going to be able to involuntarily annex the entire parcel. And of those 25, you'll need a 110 00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:54.960 referendum. So, you'll need to go on the ballot and you'll need to get 60% approval. >> So, this this will be a long incremental process and and the residents will need to vote in favor. >> So, Okay. Okay. 111 00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:11.119 >> That's understood. and and and the the the one that's uh surrounded by you you live on one side of the street, you're in the city, and the other side is in the county. Those the one we could attack first, which is that the that's the Baileyville area, you know. Um 112 00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:25.599 that's that number one area that we were talking about that I I know of those other small ones. I didn't know those other >> u names for those other subdivision. >> Yeah, we got other areas that we can also we should be targeted to. Mhm. But 113 00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:43.119 yeah, but as the attorney said, >> it's piece by piece. So I guess >> yeah, >> small piece by small piece. >> I I we just wanted to give you an idea of what we're getting into. I appreciate >> and and but I think we need to explore all the options that we have and I think 114 00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:58.640 we need to move forward. >> Yeah. >> And let them look at what we we devising blah blah. I know we're not there yet. >> Yeah. >> Have they seen this? Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. And >> that's not final, you know, but it was, 115 00:34:58.640 --> 00:35:13.760 you know, how we put approach. >> I like that. I like that. >> Thank you. And and you still would like Taylor and Sure. to come up and give their input about >> the impact to them. 116 00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:29.839 >> Sure. I'll gladly speak. >> I'll take the opportunity to say for >> Exactly. Um I've already presented to you all uh the opportunity for the staffing study and as you know if we're going to increase uh areas of service it 117 00:35:29.839 --> 00:35:46.560 would also u be very beneficial to increase the staffing levels as well. Um we do know that we are facing um increased uh not only our jurisdiction but increased the size of population for the city as uh the near future approaches and we're going to be looking 118 00:35:46.560 --> 00:36:02.320 into that uh already. So you already have before you the staffing study to show you that if you were to bring in uh that level of uh population as well as properties where we would need to go from there as far as officers and that will be something 119 00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:20.560 that's already provided to you. I'm sure the levels of call for service will increase um and I'm sure uh as far as uh the manpower will need to increase to be able to provide the proper services. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Good evening, commissioners. So, I think 120 00:36:20.560 --> 00:36:36.400 for the fire department, uh, in a lot of ways, we're already responding to that area, especially for fires and stuff. >> Now, it will increase on our medical side because we don't run a lot of that. The county takes up that. So, we that would be some increase there. I'm not sure how much they run. I can start 121 00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:52.240 checking into what the county's running there and try and give us an idea on medical. But for fires and stuff, we're already backing them up and >> a lot of times arriving first because it is so close to our district, >> right? >> Um so yeah, I think there'll be some 122 00:36:52.240 --> 00:37:08.240 increase and we need to increase staff as well too as we've talked about. I think ultimately we need to be somewhere around 12 to 14. Um and we're about half of that. um are a little more than half or eight now. So having that if we could start to 123 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:24.640 add people even if it's one a year would really start to help us start to move trucks that direction >> and again planning for the future expansion of the city as even as we have this new construction as well >> that's coming in. Thank you. And and mayor, I I just want to say I agree with 124 00:37:24.640 --> 00:37:41.440 what Commissioner Jones said and um I just wanted to hear from our chiefs, but you know, it's growing pains and it's time to grow. We're we're grow you know what, we're growing regardless. Let's grow in the appropriate way that's 125 00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:57.520 beneficial for the city. So, I think that's what we're hearing here. And unfortunately, it's it's big. It's labor, but so is everything else we do in the city. Right. Right. >> But it is time and I I hope we keep this momentum going. So, thanks. Thank you. 126 00:37:57.520 --> 00:38:12.240 >> Okay. >> Thank you, Louisa. >> Is there anything else on annexation? Mr. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much for all the information. It was wonderful. Great. Um, because I didn't open public comment after we talked about folks at home. 127 00:38:12.240 --> 00:38:30.320 Miss Reyes is here. I'm gonna open public comment for a minute because I knew >> Yeah, it's fine. >> We still friends, aren't we? >> Three minutes. Three minutes. >> I just want to excuse me that way as 128 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:47.599 possible. Um, I'm not I'm not I'm just going to clarify some stuff that was said here. I'm not representing lies because I am just me. I help the homeless, the community just based on me. I'm not connected with any organization but I just wanted to clarify 129 00:38:47.599 --> 00:39:06.160 >> the shelter is low barrier not low risk >> which means that it minimizes the requirement for entry to provide immediate assistance. Now to that end, the COC is requiring that. 130 00:39:06.160 --> 00:39:21.920 Me personally, I think we need additional requirements because otherwise we're going to end up like what happened at First Presbyterian. That's just me speaking. Okay. 131 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:36.880 >> And no, I'm not in the city. I don't live in the city, but I do a lot of work. >> Okay. And um so the 997 I thought the information you sent says that we've already used 50,000. 132 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:52.480 >> Did I not read that right? >> Well, you can can answer. Let let Miss Reyes finish and you can answer respond afterward. >> We'll meet about that. Um SMA and the Cooper building SMA does not provide 133 00:39:52.480 --> 00:40:07.680 services in that building. It is a drop in location only. The homeless are already dropping in and hanging out there. So, I get that the the daycare is right down the street, but they're 134 00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:25.440 already there to my Davis's point. Um, they go in there, they hang out, they do activities, they watch TV, it's cooling center during the day. Um, and they eat and that's all they do there. There's no 135 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:41.520 services at all because I had no idea what the drop in center was and I did drop in to find out what it was. So that's what they do. So to your point, they're already there. Um, what else did I have? The bus and Mr. Eddie left. I 136 00:40:41.520 --> 00:40:59.119 had proposed to the county. I know about the dignity bus from Barrow Beach and I've seen the dignity bus which is similar to what this coachment bus is. Um, will it work as the shelter that we want? No. But maybe the city and the 137 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:16.400 county can collaborate and have a bus that moves around during cold weather because we don't have anything on the south side, right? So if this bus can maybe go to the south side because interlocking has interlocking soup kitchen 138 00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:33.839 has whatever shelters we open but there's nothing on the south side for the south people. So I had proposed maybe a bus for that. It will not work for the shelter that we want. The shelter with rise will provide the wraparound services. Sorry I just had a 139 00:41:33.839 --> 00:41:49.280 lip. It will provide the wraparound services that the people will need like to Miss Davis's point from start to finish like I did with this couple. It is not a permanent solution by by no means will it be a permanent solution. 140 00:41:49.280 --> 00:42:06.160 It will be you come in. This is what you have to do. This is what you're going to be required to do. We're going to help you get your IDs, your social security benefits, your social security card, your birth certificate, whatever it is that you need. And then we're going to work with the other organizations that 141 00:42:06.160 --> 00:42:23.280 are within our community to help provide the permanent housing and the additional services that they need. >> Thank you. That's my >> Thank you for your clarity. >> And you will discuss at some of the point with Miss Chantel. Okay. Thank you. >> No barrier. >> Thank you. >> I'm sorry. No barrier. 142 00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:37.760 >> So you know what that means? >> No risk. >> Okay. What does that mean? >> That they're not going to create barriers where people can't get in. So really the criteria is lower but I 143 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:54.400 >> think there's something to work with. >> You know I think it's to work with Ryzen CC about >> Oh I'm I'm good with it again >> and adding the additional requirements. Yes, >> but it's a require >> keys the home. >> Thank you. 144 00:42:54.400 --> 00:43:09.839 >> You're welcome. Thank you. >> On to the next item on discussion direction vacant properties. So, I brought this up mainly um staff and I had been working on this a couple of months ago just trying to understand 145 00:43:09.839 --> 00:43:25.520 what's going on and we figured out um there were 16 potential lots for 16 lots for what's called potential redevelopment. 83 lots limited small scale and 19 are 146 00:43:25.520 --> 00:43:42.480 probably not likely developable for a total of 118 parcels. Uh one commissioner had asked whether or not we had sold any uh parcels and we did sell two one in May 2024 and one in December 147 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:59.760 2025. So the recommendation we made was um and I want to say something else before I go over recommendation the framework for utilizing a lot for possibly single family residential use. 148 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:17.680 Uh I think uh the planning director informed me something about 5,000 square footage uh generally will accommodate a home uh as a grandfathering. Um anything new would be about 7500 square 149 00:44:17.680 --> 00:44:34.800 ft. So we did look at uh local zoning um in Palaka and in Putham County. And um those were some of the frameworks that we looked at to figure out whether or not a lot could be 150 00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:51.839 utilize for building affordable housing or anything like that. That's pretty much where we are. We wanted to let you understand this >> before you go. You said 5,000 square foot. It's the smallest. >> Okay. >> That seems large. That is 151 00:44:51.839 --> 00:45:12.880 >> That's huge. >> No, no. We're talking about the lot. Just the lot size. Okay. >> Right. Lot size. >> The minimum lot size in some 5,000 some minimum 7,000 and those 152 00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:29.440 minimum. >> So I mean um you talking on my head so I'mma bring it down. So when we say lot sizes, I have a lot size of 75 by 100. >> So that would be that 100. >> Yeah. I mean there, like I said, each 153 00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:44.400 district there is a requirement for the lot to have a minimum size. >> So break it down like that to me. What size would it be? >> By you know 50 by 100. What about he >> 50 by 100? Is that what you're telling me? What's the minimum lot size? Not I I 154 00:45:44.400 --> 00:46:02.079 can't get to 5,000 square foot. >> It would be like 6,000 square feet. for the zoning district. But there is this one caveat that you need to understand. This is for the creation of U lots. So if you come and try to subdivide a piece of land and your minimum lot area is 155 00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:19.040 6,000 square feet, well that's what you're going to have to be. Most of the property that we have in the city, they're all legal and lots grandfathering even if you don't meet the lot size. >> Okay. So these are 156 00:46:19.040 --> 00:46:35.760 the potentials are >> those are the ones that we're going to evaluate some more. Meaning what I mean by that is from the first level of information we have they appear to be a minimum of 5,000 square footage which is 5500. 157 00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:52.160 >> Okay. That's >> okay. Yes. However, we are going to do more work and pull each parcel to be certain that they are in fact grandfathered in as uh our planning director has pointed out. And uh but we wanted to have this in a workshop and at 158 00:46:52.160 --> 00:47:07.680 least let you know where we are with vacant lots and what we're trying to achieve. We want your we I think we know your directive. Uh and that would be that anything that we can use you know to u so we want to be sure what your 159 00:47:07.680 --> 00:47:22.319 directive is. >> Could I ask a question? >> All right. To add these say potential redevelopment candidate don't give us a address or nothing like that. So it's 160 00:47:22.319 --> 00:47:40.400 not identifiable right now. Um I just had to count out the 16. There's no number number. I don't know how many total lots of are these because >> total lots is 118. >> Okay. >> It would be nice to be numbered so that we see that. So and then then what what 161 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:56.960 does it mean pending GIS verification? I know it say pending GIS verification but why hasn't it been verified? I mean we this was like kind of like a couple of meetings ago. We asked for it. So did it take that long to get it get this 162 00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:14.280 information? >> Well, um >> in that small detail, there's not a lot of detail that we asked about. >> Am I wrong or am I asking hard question? >> No, you you can ask. >> I'm asking information. It's not giving us a lot of information here. >> Well, I guess my question is 163 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:33.040 it's I think it's three pages, right? But they're not What? What am I trying to say? Like if I go to page 38, that's the rest of >> Yeah, it this is not printed properly. 164 00:48:33.040 --> 00:48:49.680 This is not usable. >> Okay. So, let's that's that's the problem. It's confusing. Commissioner Jones, >> right? Because it continues. >> Yeah, it's continued. The way they gave it to us is not um >> they're continuous sheets. So some of 165 00:48:49.680 --> 00:49:06.800 the information so this continues >> like page 38 the first line is related to the first item on the report. We do have addresses we it >> yeah this got to be done totally different and so this would continue from a previous page. So the first page 166 00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:22.400 does have the tax. >> We could have did it landscape. >> Okay. Yeah. So maybe I'm asking could you guys >> you need a spreadsheet. Can you guys compile this so that it's easier to read and follow? >> Okay. Yeah, cuz I'm like 167 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:38.720 this is not Oh, I guess now I get what you're saying. >> Yeah. So, once you get past the tax ID number, the rest of it's on a subsequent page and you can't read it. >> It wasn't >> landscape it and maybe it'll all fit and then you go to the next. But also, 168 00:49:38.720 --> 00:49:54.559 >> send us the report. >> Yeah. And ne next time I want I want to see the the addresses so we'll know >> the parial numbers. We're not gonna go look up par. >> Some of them are unassigned and that means they don't have an address number yet. So sometimes you're not going to get an address number. They just haven't assigned one. 169 00:49:54.559 --> 00:50:10.880 >> They do have addresses there. >> I now I see. >> But it's still >> if it says unassigned that is really what it is. There is no address number to emphasize. So you do have a 100 Memorial Parkway which is the hotel across the street because that's used to be the highrise. 170 00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:26.240 >> What is >> this property next to it though? >> Yeah. >> Adjacent to it on St. John's that technically can be built on. >> Is that really I thought that was I thought >> Clause was lapsed. 171 00:50:26.240 --> 00:50:42.480 >> Okay. Yes. But they own it. >> Yeah. They own it. We don't own it anymore but it can be constructed on. That's correct. We we have the um authority for design review criteria and that's about it. >> Right. At one point we could have >> Yep. But we didn't. 172 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:57.520 >> So >> got the return of that property, but we didn't act on it in time. We the city before our time. >> Oh, before my time. I don't know about yours. >> Okay. Yes. >> Um but any rate, we we could have had the option to get those back, but we didn't act on it and expired. 173 00:50:57.520 --> 00:51:11.440 >> So there are three buildable lots, but they're not ours anymore. Oo. >> Oh, wow. Huh. Commercial lots. >> Those commissioners, uh, what I would like to propose, give us an opportunity to perfect this a little more where it 174 00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:27.359 makes more sense. Uh, even even what I mean by that is, um, it says unassigned for a 911 address. So, it means we can't give you an address because there's not an address. But then the ones that have addresses, 175 00:51:27.359 --> 00:51:44.880 you know, I think also what might be helpful is uh like for instance where uh planning director is saying 75 by 100 that'll be 7500 square footage. Okay. But then what does that mean as it relates to acreage? So I'll even put 176 00:51:44.880 --> 00:52:00.720 some more transform, >> you know, more legends so it can be more useful, >> right? because the first one up there 237.45 acres but it's unassigned. I definitely would like to know what that is or where that is. 177 00:52:00.720 --> 00:52:17.680 >> That's just raw land almost. It seems >> I just I need to add a couple of caveats. I wasn't sure what the purpose of the vacant property exercise was, but to the extent that we are identifying vacant lots that are cityowned that are available for affordable housing, we are 178 00:52:17.680 --> 00:52:33.599 legally obligated to post those on our website pursuant to the live local act. So if if we're undergoing this process to identify parcels for affordable housing, we have to put it out there for purchase. Well, but what we need to do 179 00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:49.760 is forformational purposes, we didn't decide what we're going to do with it. So, so before you go there, we haven't decided what we're going to do. We asked what properties we own. So, that's for information purposes. So, we didn't say for affordable housing reason. 180 00:52:49.760 --> 00:53:04.079 >> Like I said, I didn't know the purpose of this exercise. I just thought I would so we so we can get that information without it being put out there for uh live local act. And we also I I'll stop with that. 181 00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:19.760 >> And to Miss uh West's comment, I think a couple of years ago, you can let me know. Uh I believe the commissioners did vote for six lots to be treated as affordable housing. >> So, we have currently seven lots that 182 00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:35.200 are posted on our website. There was one developer that expressed interest about a year and a half ago, but no movement. All all seven lots are still posted on the website with no movement. Um I will also share that in this past legislative 183 00:53:35.200 --> 00:53:51.920 session, the live local act was amended to allow churches to provide um housing on their property without having to go through any local zoning hearings as long as it remains affordable housing for a period of 30 years. And we we do 184 00:53:51.920 --> 00:54:08.160 have multiple church properties throughout the city that may be interested in availing themselves of that. Of course, it was an unfunded mandate. >> And additionally, >> it's on their list. >> And there's one more item I'd like Miss West to clarify or explain to you all. 185 00:54:08.160 --> 00:54:25.599 Remember we were talking about it today, the ADU or something like that. >> Sure. So, we also, if you recall, you passed the accessory dwelling unit ordinance. That is a very innovative affordable housing tool that we haven't seen a lot of utilization of where you 186 00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:39.839 can put a whole another livable structure on these lots even if they are the small 5,000 square foot lots and it would double the capacity and provide an affordable housing income stream for the 187 00:54:39.839 --> 00:54:56.880 primary dwelling unit. So, and so today we wanted to share with you what we are doing as a team. Uh we're getting more and more information. We're learning as well and we will make certain that we give you updated 188 00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:12.960 information. So, as a board you can give better guidance to us. Okay. That was the intent today. And for those that are up on our website, those seven properties that have received little to no response, we also just issued an RFP for a real estate 189 00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:28.880 >> a >> could they list those once we have that realtor on board? >> Yes. >> That might bring more success if it's out marketing marketing. >> So it's online you said um >> if you Google live local, 190 00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:46.240 >> right? Um could you you mentioned about somebody asked about the two you say two properties that were sold. >> Yes sir. And those were the properties >> were they in the affordable housing 191 00:55:46.240 --> 00:56:02.400 quant or they just what what was the deal? >> I believe was 512 EMTT if you recall. That was the house that burnt down >> Mr. Brunt. Yeah exactly. And it was subsequently sold. It was um sold by the 192 00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:17.920 the city acquired it because of all of his code violations and then we turned around and sold it. >> Um and they have a restrictive covenant that travels with that. I believe they have to start construction on a new single family residential structure within 5 years. The other more recent 193 00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:34.640 acquisition was December. That was the Davis city of Palaca land swap to protect our wellfield out by the water treatment plant. >> Davis. >> Yes, sir. And what's the what's the deal on that, Davis? First, we swap land with somebody. 194 00:56:34.640 --> 00:56:52.720 >> Yes. Teresa Davis had acquired a parcel of vacant property that honestly we thought we owned. It's near the water treatment plant and within our wellfield and they were going to put in a mechanic shop that was going to pose potential environmental risk and contamination. 195 00:56:52.720 --> 00:57:12.480 So, we worked on identifying an alternative vacant lot off of PRC Way. So, they went to that one and we got our lot back to protect our wellfield. >> Right. >> And that already happened. >> I don't recall that. 196 00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:29.440 >> We did it. It passed. I don't remember who was here, who wasn't, but it I remember it being on the agenda. It was and we passed it and it's it's that has happened already. >> Yeah. And that's why we want PRC talk about it. 197 00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:44.000 >> Yeah. >> So, thank you so much for giving us an opportunity, >> you know, to present to you what we're doing with vacant lots. >> Thank you. Any other questions on the vacant lots? Okay. Anyone have any commissioner 198 00:57:44.000 --> 00:58:01.599 comments? Commissioner Davis? >> No. Commissioner Bor, >> Commissioner Jones, >> thank all all the um work that they provided to us today. >> Any comments, Commissioner Jones? >> I move that we adjourn this meeting. 199 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:06.079 >> Okay. >> Thank you. What's up?