##VIDEO ID:o2wFhpNIh1I## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e afternoon I'm going to call this meeting to order this is a city commission uh Workshop January 23rd 2025 at 4 p.m. we're going to start with the invocation and then the Pledge of Allegiance both led by commissioner Davis Heavenly Father God we just thank you for this day God we ask that as we begin this uh commissioner Workshop God that you be with us that you guide us God that you open our minds and our hearts to learn so that we can be better Commissioners for our city we thank you for the warmth and the um comfort from the cold air and Lord we pray for those who unfortunately may not be as comfortable as we are we thank you and we praise you and we we ask these and all blessings in Jesus name amen amen to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all roll call please Madam clerk commissioner Davis Pres commissioner Borum mayor Tera present commissioner Jones here commissioner Campbell present thank you um moving on to uh public recognition and the actual presentation and we are we going to start with you introducing yes of course Miss cot I will first of all good evening mayor Commissioners and I'll I'll guess that Dr Judge had Daniels appreciate you being here and uh she is here in response uh dant she's here in response to commissioner requests to gain better uh guidance on roles and interaction action with staff so you can as you can proceed thank you okay all right thank you very much M um thank you mayor Commissioners okay thank you oh now it's thank you very much Marcia thank you mayor and Commissioners um and everyone who's here um for showing up even on Zoom I can't see anyone on Zoom but that that's fine I know you're there I can feel your presence um my name is uh so I'm G to I've been asked to discuss staff Council relations and roles and I'm going to put that into a larger picture as well to really give it a lot um more context so the title of the this uh Workshop is collaborative governance understanding commission and staff roles can you go to the next thank you um associate professor at UNF I'm also the masters of public administration director there so I um for the mpa program for those don't that don't know there's an MPA and an MBA everybody knows what an MBA MBA is maximizing profit and shareholder value and MPA is maximizing public value so I'm I'm training students who are going into the public and nonprofit sectors I'd be as efficient effective and um economic as possible so U that's a little bit about me and then um I also do Consulting uh I volunteer a lot in the community I've been on boards task forces commissions uh councils and I am a former elected official so I was on the city council in Jacksonville Beach I just ended my mayoral campaign I lost but it was close it was it was a good race and um the council is move is paying attention to what I wanted to have things pay attention to so it's it was a success and not winning lets me be here with you guys tonight so if I if I when I hold public office I can't consult so yay um just wanted go over the agenda real quick um thank you first I want to go into the different structures of government I'm going to go through some of these quick and I'm going to dive much deeper into the the nuts and bolts of it uh so the structure and then Sunshine in Florida not the sunshine of the sky type but the of the legal type roles and responsibilities is where we're going to spend a lot of time so this is the roles of the responsibility of elected officials appointed officials and staff and then meetings so different types of meetings what to be looking for in these meetings and then any questions as we go through each section please feel free to let me know if you need clarification or if you have questions you don't have to wait all the way to the end and I have each one of these broken out into different sections so um you'll you'll see that there a nice little there should be I hope you see that there is a nice little structure to it um speaking of structure let's go into structure so in this section we're going to cover the forms of government volunteer boards and then commissioner relations to other governments before we get into staff next so local government so when you think of you all know what your city Charter is um I read it and so um the city Charter you can always think of that as like the Constitution for a county or a city so in Florida we have 67 counties 40 of U 40 of which have Charters and the others don't um there are four counties that do have have a admin a coordinator but but there's there's a difference there and I'm not going to get into that since you're a municipal government but but you do need to engage with your county um so in those charters in your in the um city of Paca Charter yes back when I was on Council your face um so when we're looking at Charters um the charter gives you the form of structure of the government so here you're Council you're a commission manager form and in this one the in yours you are the boss you hire and fire the city manager and I want you to think about that as well because you are entrusting that whomever is in the role of city manager is doing is implementing what you are asking them to implement to the fullest extent um and so that why that way there's no need for you to kind of do the nitty britty calling the the fleece cheking this and all that so I just want we'll get into that again um in a little bit more but that is the type of government that you have um when we look at councils versus commissions at the county level they're all commissions at the municipal level some of them are commissions some of them are counties there's no difference other than what they're called in the charter so um but there are differences in form so if you are looking at a pure commission form of government and there I believe there are four C uh four or seven counties in Florida that have more of a pure commission form of County government that's where each commissioner is in Char is a head of a department so there there's no administ there they the elected officials act as the administrator as well well um those across the country are on their way out things are getting a lot more complicated and because of that they're realizing they need somebody with the the appropriate professional skills to be able to hold those positions so these pure commissions have really um mainly rolled into um the the last one the commissioner manager but there are some differences um week mayor we don't really have many of those those are um so there are some municipalities that have a commission we mayor where the mayor actually doesn't vote that but they do break ties things like that strong mayor commission those are predominantly in large municipalities and that is where you have uh just like the federal government and the state there's the distinction between the mayor as the executive the legislature as the um Council as the legislative branch one holds the pur strings and the other one Implement holds the purse strings passes the laws and the other one implements um don't go go back one more commission manager this is you guys so in the commission manager the commission hires the um the city manager and the oversees the city manager the city manager implements to what you are asking them to implement in the charter it will also note whom else the city coun the city council or commission whatever you want to call it who else they hire so this the often you'll see that the city um commission hires the city manager the City attorney and sometimes the city clerk um and then there's always with advice but you don't really worry about that but always remember the ones that you are hiring are the ones that you have the oversight over and you entrust them to implement what you're doing into the staff um next um and another group is also here to um help you guys get everything done and that's your volunteer boards so um the these are the the workhorses of city government they they don't get paid they're not compensated you select them and they have to be trained but they really they spend their time predominantly because they care about the community and the future of the community your these are your um volunteer boards your CRA historical preservation board planning board zoning board not planning boards board the the plan people are not boards they're the board um those are all volunteer you appoint all of those and you want to make sure that you are appointing people with the right proper knowledge skills and abilities to be able to fully achieve the the roles and the expectations and then you have the pla gas author that one is compensated at a level that you choose um and so they're not they're not volunteer but they are still a very important board um next and then there's intergovernmental relations so and this is where things get a little bit wild and you have to kind of work together so when we're looking at the intergovernmental relations politically policy-wise Direction wise you want to be working with the putam county of Commissioners so you know who they are you know you want to meet with them none of you can meet as a group unless it's publicly noticed so you can meet with them one-on-one and discuss it oneon-one um what your issues are and what you need from them similarly you have the putam county legislative um delegation they are the ones when you have issues from Tallahassee push they they will help push legislation in Tallahassee um that you are asking them to do and they they will be very honest with you of things that are just not doable and then some things that are doable um and these uh delegations work very well because it's this they're they're across the the state and they know what the issues are in their areas and so it's not usually like you're going to have Miami hold up something that is being pushed by the putham county delegation or the Duval delegation um so it's kind of like a um we're all in this together we understand what the local issues are let's get this passed to the legislature this is um extremely important because when you look at putham County again we'll go to the Charter the chartered not chartered putam county is not chartered that means that they have a lot of restrictions on what they are able to do and they rely on the state legislature to be able to make a lot of those changes um so you want if you are butting your head up against something and it's County related find out is it the county or is it the state it's most likely something that the state is has not allowed the county to do um high level um if you have a charter you have home rule in 1967 the Florida um the Florida legislature passed um a new Constitution and in that they granted home rule and home rules lets municipalities in any chartered County do anything that is not explicitly prohibited by the state if you are not chartered you can only do things that are are exp explicitly um says that you are supposed to do by the state so when you as elected officials are looking at what the needs of your constituents are and who you need to engage and what some of the roadblocks are to move the the issue forward think about the non-charter county where the role of the legislature is the role of the County Commissioners and then how you can leverage the putam county uh legislative delegation to be able to help move things forward that make sense okay um and then there's constitutional offices every um county has to have these they are they are by they're mandated by the state there are some instances that they're not called this but if a county non-charter Counties have to have all of those these a charted county has to have somebody doing these functions even if it's not called that so there's no sheriff in Miami Dade but there is a person who's in charge of the prisons and and um law enforcement so you all counties have a tax collector supervisor of elections Clerk of Courts um property appraiser and a sheriff or somebody in those functions um so they are all elected they are all there to help you do your jobs as well you want to make sure that you have good relations with them because especially you got to know your tax collector because you you get you get a lot of complaints about taxes you're going to get them about property appraiser well why my why my appraisal go up I know there's a 3% well you know get to know the property appraiser so this way if you if they have a question and you reach out they know who you are and know what some of the issues are so don't wait for an issue to come up reach out to them proactively get to know them um what some of the issues are that they're seeing and how they relate to um patka okay any questions on structure okay sip all right and so I want to briefly cover Sunshine laws this does not count your four hours of training I just want to make sure you know that but um because of sunshine laws I we the the how you interact with each other really is impacted um a as well as um what people can see H how you interact with your constituents and other things so an overview of purpose going to touch on some ethics and then the application to all of you okay all right so Sunshine laws we like to do business in the sunshine in Florida so Florida is the state that was known for making sure that government is transparent and the whole purpose is people should know what the what their elected officials are doing and why they're doing it so if you are voting a certain way because of sunshine laws they should know if you have had an in-depth conversation with the developer or something like that because you need to disclose that we'll get into that in um the the meetings uh so public business needs to be transparent and um for the public to know what the decision-making process is and the key here is public trust any elected office really is a office where the public has ENT has entrusted you to speak for them and you don't want the citizens to no longer trust government that would be bad bad bad bad okay personal conduct so I I put ethics here so there's a whole there's a lot of Ethics law that's why you have a 4-Hour training that is mandated by States annually um but generally speaking when you look at ethics and personal conduct the citizens your voters your constituents want to make sure that you are independent and impartial to what it is that you were voting on so why are you have the opportunity to say why you're for or against something that quasi judicial I'm going to we're going to put quasi judicial on a shelf until we get to meeting meetings because those are you're welcome I also spent eight year six or eight years on the Planning Commission so I know qu judicial um so uh you want to make sure that people see you as being impartial um and independent you're not being swayed by one group or another but you're really looking at it as what is best for the community you cannot have any private gain personal gain you can't make money um off of what you do for the city um misuse of positions as like you get pulled over you can't say do you know who I am don't ever ever ever say that um because that is like it's bad it's if you're even thinking it that's still bad because you're not remembering this slide um so no private private gain you if you have a business that business cannot be conducting business with the city um there are some instances but you'd have to recuse yourself it's that this is where you really rely on your legal counsel um but you want to make sure that there are no conflicts of interest and when you think about conflict of interests think about the perception of a conflict so if the citizens are looking at you and like you're like no I I've checked all the boxes they don't know those boxes but it looks shady and they don't want to see Shady stuff um M uh no gifts so if somebody wasn't going to give you a gift before an item was before you to be voted on they and they probably wouldn't give you one in five years don't take that gift you know go get one yourself so um don't accept gifts at all and you know what it is it's because it's so cold [Laughter] outside you're like ah heat all right so you want to so when we're looking at that ethics and personal conduct you just want to really make sure that you are putting yourself in the shoes of the voter of the citizens and wonder think about how what you're saying and what you're doing is perceived by the general public um then there's the good old qu the the the adage that if it's something that you don't want your mom to know or you don't want something on the front page of the paper you probably shouldn't be doing it so when you're thinking about engaging with someone or having a a deep conversation or you're voting and you're like well I wouldn't want them to know about this but it's okay because nobody's going to know always assume it's going to be in the paper if anybody reads the paper anymore always assume it's going to end up on Facebook it's G and it's going to end up in everybody's email boxes so assume that before making some of those decisions thanks course if twise they WR things is that somebody I stepped up um gift wise that I don't think you think of as a gift for example there's an event put on by a private person entity and they offer free admission to the VIP event people need to realize that is a gift yes and when and that just say no you can say no just say I'll buy it myself and buy it yourself and have the proof that you purchase the ticket yourself but in any case yeah there there is is a level of gift I think it's $50 and you can sign a you have to fill out the form but still there's it's just easier to say no no thank you I appreciate it but no thank you exactly okay somebody online yes of course yes question so you mentioned commissioner how deep how deep and what's covered under conflict of interestes you resol on that topic uh uh so could you elaborate on that because uh conflict interest seems to be a great area that a lot of people don't understand so um you mentioned about commissioner vote what about actions with uh administrative or directors um I know you say recru yourself but how deep does that go and since they no one else other than the city manager answers to the commission how do you deal with that okay we'll cover this a bit when we get to meetings so this is going to be in Workshop meetings um not the official type meetings but uh with regard to conflicts of interest with staff directors and staff that should be picked up in the procurement process but if it is not that would still end up being something that has brought to the city manager's attention if there's a perceived conflict of interest and the city manager would have to look into that more again it is the city manager's role to run the city and the commission and trust that that individual will do a good job maintaining and improving the public trust does that answer so I'm sorry go ahead go ahead go ahead I thank you um I I did answer your question no you didn't um so you when I when I say that there are when you start talking about the conflict of interest and you say personal gains and things of that nature so usually a commissioner not dealing with day-to-day operations so dealing with a vendor or others on outside Commissioners usually don't have that contact or that um the dealing with making contracts work we approve them okay so on the level of when you're in the meat and potatoes of structuring a contract or deal that's really where some conflict of interest can happen and personal gains could also happen and I said I'm saying could so how do you cuz people are quick to say something about sunshine but never elaborate on those type of conflicts of interest and to be honest with you that's more than the city manager would be uh on top of on day-to-day operations too because it could happen at a a lower level than the city manager so with the sit with the commission not having any supervisory role over anyone other than the city manager how do you kind of like deal with that what you suggest you leave it to the city manager you bring it to the city manager's attention that a a citizen a concerned person has brought this to your attention you want the city manager to look into it deeper um so there are administrative policies and then there are uh elected policies Sunshine only applies to elected and appointed officials it does not apply to staff members we're not talking about sunshine I'm talking about conflict event right and so because you mentioned sunshine I want to make sure that you know that there they're two separate pieces when we're looking at conflict of interest internal policies within a city remember a city is nothing I don't want to say it's nothing more it is more but a city is an organization it's a complex organization but it is an organization and just like you have employee rules in your your um place of business you have employee rules and codes of conduct um and ethic there are staff is subject to ethics um that applies to them now the commission is not engaged in that that is the city manager's job to make sure that legally ethically uh morally staff is doing what they are supposed to do that is not the role of the commission the commission's role is the big picture the policy Direction you want this city to go in I um you go understand role and understanding everything you just said the it's almost uh I wish I was really there um I understand that in the role my question or my statement basically is this again um well let let me just add a add a Different Twist to it so a citizen comes to a meeting now is not directed to the city manager it's actually down transparently to everyone we all know the same information they come into the city commission meeting and advise so still same direction I I I suppose it goes to the city manager to fact find at that point okay so I'm not I'm not trying to private I just wanted to pretty much just say where where's the difference of conflict of interest from a commissioner's standpoint versus a manager director or even an employee employees could have it because employees we have employees that uh turn on and off utilities so conflicts happen all could happen all through so I guess the bigger question is when would a disclosure be appropriate for staff yes this that any disclosure would be done by sta by staff to staff so to their immediate supervisor or to the director of the organization it does not go to the commission because that is the nitty-gritty of running the city um now if you are continually getting these issues somebody's always coming to the commission meeting saying this is going on this is going on this is going on and you do not see that the city manager is addressing this and making sure that the staff is acting ethically well that is grounds for dismissal and that is your role you are overseeing the function of the city manager you have to let the city manager do his or her job because once the city commission starts getting involved with the department and the staff the the staff members now are getting two different um two different directions and they don't know who to answer to and they should always be answering to the city manager and whenever a City Commissioner reaches out to a staff member the city manager needs to be informed of that even if it's something like they they you have a question about setbacks in your neighborhood um and so the commissioner call the you have set questions uh one of your constituents has a question about setbacks and you contact the public uh you contact uh the Planning Commission and they tell you about the setbacks well the the that Planning Commission director or per some that planning department that it should gone should go up to the city manager that yeah they were asking about set bags because now if everybody's asking about setbacks maybe there needs to be a workshop on the LDC and setbacks to make sure that everybody is on the same page did did you have a okay um no f thank you best practices for doing business with the city versus doing business in the city uh can you give me an example yes so if I own a company and I'm gonna build a house for example or I'm in a real estate deal I'm building the house in the city of Paca so that's what I consider doing business in Paca versus a contract with you know a business with the city okay um you would do it just like anybody else but you would not ask for special treatment and again go back to that perception so when I was on city council I wanted I had to go over lot coverage and I wanted to put in a patio on my backyard it is a beautiful patio now um perious papers and everything else 15 by 35 lovely lovely lovely I waited until I was off counsel though to even submit the application because I was in charge of appointing the um people who volunteer on the board of adjustments that's what we call um our variance board um and so I didn't want there to be be a perceived conflict um now there is no legal requirement that I had to wait um and there were other commiss other council members that I was with they're like no I need to um extend my driveway and I'm going to go in front of them and I'm like well you can't I won't and and that that's where you start and the you're in the the morals type things there are things that are ethical there are things that are um legal and um not all things that are ethical legally and vice versa um so it really then comes into your own ethics um is this something that you you think is right what would you think if an elected official appoints the board and then you're asking for this big patio um and they go are they really going to say no to the elected official um some would say well they should if if they think doesn't work but U again it's that perception yeah yes you do right and again you want to put yourself in that other person's shoes um Mary did you have a question Earl did that answered so you can't ask for special it did it did and I think what I what I to take it further if there's the perception of it addressing do we address it before the public comes to ask the you know that I think that's the point it's not illegal so someone could do it right and then there is the perception then what from a best practice perspective I think that's where I'm going with this it's always better to air on letting the public know you want to be in front of any issue the worst thing is that you are then trying to explain yourself because then the message has been lost you will never regain or reframe that message so so you want to get out in front of it you're saying um I this is an emergency I can't wait till I'm off commission my mother-in-law has to move in yay me um and we need to have ADD uh we need to put an addition onto the house and because of that we're going to go of a lot coverage or something like that and so because of these extenuating circumstances I need to submit an application to the um the the board of adjustment and so explain it first of off but then say and if anyone here if any of the public thinks that I really shouldn't have them come and and and note their dissatisfaction with that decision okay yeah didn't have your question um okay um all right so yeah we're at the ethics uh and all of this is under so if you look at that bottom piece collaborative governance this is the section that we're in the sunshine laws so the application these are the rules to follow so when we're looking at sunshine again this is only for elected and appointed officials no two individuals from the same body can discuss anything that has will or may come before you for a vote you can talk to individual members of the planning or the zoning but you can't do you can't speak to two of them because now they're breaking Sunshine um things you have to do you have to file your annual Financial disclosures it is currently on pause um the um form six waiting for courts to decide but that you still have the the um lesser Financial disclosures that must be filed every year um annual ethics training you have to do four hours there's two hours on the laws and then there's one on ethics and then public records so you need to do that so if you go to the Florida League of cities there's a space there if you register early enough because they do run out of spaces every once in a while um to get that done just check it off the Box um again it replies to members of the same body I can't say this enough public perception so you're not talking about anything that you voted on you might be talking about the kids baseball game but you and a couple council members are out at the bar one night the citizens are at that bar going wonder what they're talking about and just by chance you know the next day so that was a Wednesday night the next day you have a meeting and you all vote on a controversial thing in the same way it doesn't look good now were you speaking about it no um was Sunshine broken no but again there's that public perception that they think that you're all behind the scenes making the moves doing all that stuff um and finally this applies to social media so we we talk about face to face never hit reply all to your emails don't don't do it because now you are you have a Rec you are now communicating with each other even if it was to the city manager hit reply all I'm sure you BCC um so you don't want to hit reply all on social media you have a Facebook account or something like that somebody asks you a question you answer somebody else likes it that is a public record and that is a bro you broke the sunshine because now you're seeing two Commissioners on this on a topic that they're going to be voting on in the same medium you can't do that so the best rule of thumb don't post about the baseball games about the mother-in-law having to move in um not about the need for the the thing but about the mother-in-law having to move in um the weather snowflakes things like that don't post about City business even on your um offic if you have an official Facebook page um don't do have it as an information gathering um a as an information push out um this th this event is coming downtown The Crab Festival here it is um don't use it as a way to engage with people um because it can get kind of hairy um if you do start if if somebody Facebook messages you or I don't even know what the in X there's a way that they can contact you out of X you have to email those to your official email that that is all public record um oh gosh there's a whole bunch of things with with Technologies texting somebody texts you you take screenshots of those texts and you email them to yourself has to be public record again it's to make sure that there's trust and people can see what is what has influenced the decisions that you're making when you are voting yeah I believe that's you think of right and so that's why and and most cities don't have like your personal phone your city phone that oh you do oh excuse me excuse me I'm not sure what the question was that was just asked I can tell somebody was speaking but their mic was not on so we didn't hear it on Zoom my apologies commissioner Campbell it was a question from me just a reminder that um all of the suppli to your personal phone if you are conducting City business on your personal phone all right so apparently you all have a public phone a city phone and a personal phone we never had that we had ring central for our private phones but yes any text that anybody is sending you regarding anything with City business send it to your email account to make sure that it there's that it the public rec it's captured in the public record I mean that's what I typically do if I get anything on my personal and I ask people do not send anything to my personal email address I always give them my city uh contact information email and phone number and U so I got pretty good uh track record with that good um also if you have if you use social media as a your your um Facebook page it it's like as commissioner or May the email contact should be your city email it should not be a personal email even if you've used that Facebook page for your campaign and it used to be your campaign email and this is something that um there's still no clarification on should you be using a current elected official page as a campaign page as well again that gets back into that personal ethics um but that's a whole different thing everything just send it to your city email account um your your taxes pay for the servers I think it's I think it's uh you you should not use your like uh a commission page uh especially if you're currently in office I think when you've apply reapply to be reelected um you have to use your own personal email account and other information you can't use your city stuff that you're Ty to when you look to be reelected and so everything should be on your personal side of the house right and and and that flips um correct you cannot have political things go through public stuff but then there's the flip side that are you using the same page so you have to make sure that once this page is an a campaign page and no longer an elected page how you you should be sending any of the information that you're getting that what through there that City business for things that you're going to be voting on over to your city email address once you're reelected you should be switching that the contact email to your city email right one thing I don't do I don't conduct um City business on my social media or different things of that nature I don't answer questions I don't do any of that I on the platform if I if I do I'll forward everything over to my city um email or the city manager thank you okay um all right um and then this one is it for um sunshine and are there any other questions Sunshine ethics yes I have a I have a question um yes and it's more so dedicated to uh and I should have asked a question earlier but it somewhat ties in is there any level of confidence potentiality between Commissioners uh well not between Commissioners between staff um and what Commissioners are able to get from staff with regards to anything dealing with anything that they may have going on conversations or any other dealings um whenever you are an elected so any emails and things like that that's all public record when you have an elected official even if it's staff if there are certain documents that staff are doing let's say you're rewriting your LDC and um you want to know you want to there's somebody from the public that they can request all the current drafts of it they have to pay for it um the staff time that they need to uncover that but this is all public records that they the public has a right to know because they've paid for the paper they paid for the staff time they they've paying for it and they have a right to be able to acquire that information when with regard to comp confidentiality between an elected person and staff assume that there is none unless it's a police chief and there's a personal thing going on at your at home um and it's a legal piece it's not a policy thing but it's a legal thing with the police chief that's a different story if you have to but it should but the request should be formally done as a public records request if they're requesting information correct um yes and you could as a u you can if you are requesting information you can ask the city manager because the city manager is going to know that you're requesting information because every department head will tell the city manager that you're requesting certain information again if you have multiple Commissioners requesting the same type of information this is a flag to the city manager that more work needs to be done in this area we might need to do a workshop we might need to send out an email re-explaining things do a video um but always think of the city manager as the Hub the communication so everything goes to the city manager regardless of how you are engaging City staff the city manager should be knowing you are engaging the city staff in those departments and what the content of that was thank you yep I have a question uh so my question is in our environment what we're currently doing is uh all department heads uh routinely they anytime a commissioner interact with them routinely they let me know uh they also if it is um enough where they think that I need to be more aware they'll even put it in writing yep so that even we'll discuss it at department head or whatever so are we moving in the correct direction because that is our mode of operation even with city clerk uh I've asked them to know if Commissioners are interacting with you please let me know because I'm held accountable and that's the part that they did not clearly understand uh however they do now and I just wanted to make sure that I am I my understanding is correct it is okay um and so internal like your your internal employee um and guidance for the directors that should be part of that whenever an elected official or an appointed official don't forget them appointed whenever they're contacting staff that information should be relayed back to the city manager um if you are emailing something out to them it should be cc to the city manager if you are replying via email to an El uh to a staff member that staff member should be ceasing the city manager on the reply um so yes again you the city manager needs to know all of these things that are going on because the city is a complex organization and you can't have one Department going off the rails um or they what they think it's fine but like there's just a lot of turmoil going on and when you evaluate the city manager you are evaluating that city manager on the quality of services that the city is producing so you have to let the city manager produce quality services and and and that's basically how I've always conducted my operation as it relates to dealing with staff I never deal with staff directly asking them to do any any work for me unless I go through the city manager and I'll I'll if I did engage with a staff person um the C their CC the city manager is CC we've already had a communication prior to so yeah and that's how you want to be able to do that so there are some cities where the city manager will say oh if you have a basic question contact the department head just just Reach Out never go below the department head because then it's really awkward for the staff right because they're dealing with an elected official and that that's something that they are not used to doing so you never go lower than the department head when dealing with staff right so if you have to ask questions or a clarifying question still CC the city manager just so they know what's going on thank you did that answer your um question commissioner Jones Jones uh I didn't ask the question but I do have one um see I knew it I could feel it y so when a subordinate employee contact you being a commissioner and it's about the city manager how should that be him um great question remember the city manager is your employee so if the uh if there is a a staff member that's having an issue with the city manager you as the boss should sit down with the city manager and say I've received this complaint can you explain to me what happened or that because you your job is not only to set Direction you gotta fun it's hard to be a City Commissioner so your job is not only setting the policy for the city and listening to the people and trying to interact with all this intergovernmental stuff it is also being a good employer to the city manager and if the city manager is having um is if staff are having problems with the city manager first it dep on what the issue is is it an HR issue um because you know if it's an HR issue they they should probably go to the HR department um the city manager tends not to be as interactive with um Frontline staff they mainly are the if you think about the org chart they mainly engage with the directors maybe the direct those right underneath the directors but anybody under that it's the job of the directors and their assistants to work with those um staff memb members but if a if if somebody is coming to you that they have an issue let's say it's a director is it an HR issue is it a legal issue should they be seeking counsel from the city attorney um so there sometimes it's both sometimes or it can be one or another now if it's a department director coming saying I am tired of the city manager talking down to me at every Department in front of all my in front of the department head meeting every week then you can talk to the city manager saying I'm I'm hearing that there's some tension in the city department meetings um what's going are you feeling the tension like how do you approach them how do you like do you have an agenda do you give everybody Fair time so ask those questions don't be confrontational don't um I I would highly advise against saying you are horrible you don't know what you're doing because you don't you you areen in the room and you're you're you're really relying on one person's perception um city manager could had a bad day that day um had a lot on the mind um now if staff are coming to you like lower level staff again put yourself in their shoes do they understand the bigger picture of what they're being asked to do remember so it might be a complex policy that's being implemented but they are one small piece they just don't agree with it because they don't know that all these other pieces are being done elsewhere so at that level that's where you'd come to the city manager saying you might want to speak to this department head and have them bring their their staff together so they can see how they all fit in to this larger puzzle yeah so complex problem so if you and you probably dealt with it in the past you have a subordinate that uh have issues I won't say I mean rather big or small sometimes when you're listening to employees they if some may be small to to us but it it's big to them so and when they're sometimes just don't know what to do so they have went to their their supervisor let's say the director uh met with the director and the city manager and uh no resolve to to their satisfaction and they they escalated they do have the right to escalate that is that that right or not um you have a union so they should be engaging their union representative oh we certified no no police and fire have Union right we have a grievance process okay so they'd have to follow the grievance process so so it's not it's and that's one of the things see um I get what you're saying so so if you let me complete it so HR HR the HR so here it is that the wh in don't know what to do and they share it they just share happen to share it small community people know you you're you're the elected official so it happens to come to you not that you asked for it but it came to you so we have one person that answered to us I wouldn't go to the HR I wouldn't go to uh the director however I expect for the city manager to have some resolve or to go back and to to to look at this thing and then get back with me as a city manager I mean uh City Commissioner on what went on there's nothing wrong with that because we supervise the city manager and oversee all others as far as their their their well-being in the the uh in the organization is that right or is it not no that's right so if you're you get some kind of a complaint and you let the city manager know um the city manager should find out what's going on get the complaint resolved and then if you you remember to ask about it then report back to you about it right there's nothing wrong with that now there are things that might be like if you're talking about um health issues there's a HIPPA protection so that there are certain things that the city manager shouldn't be going to detail with you but she can say yes this was resolved um through insurance or whatever it was gota I gotta okay I just want to make sure that direction when it's unsolicited and it's bought to your attention uh sitting back not saying anything about it just don't really sit well but we try I think we all work well with our city manager and legal uh and speaking of it uh being a weak Mar oil system and we talk talk about direct reports that is something that uh it is also a challenge at times uh with legal because we have things that as a commission that legal protects all employees meaning Commission on down so and stop us from going into litigation so there are times that we should we should I I feel that we should be able to go to Legal without involving the city manager on some things it may be a concern about ourselves personally in a responsibility or a a gray area that we we're qu um we have questions about so um maybe that direct line of um responsibility and who they answer to may have to change in the future You' have to re look I have to I don't recall in your um Charter all these answers are in your Charter if the are you hired by city council yeah so we are one of those unusual ones where I report to the city manager not to the City commissioners so it has definitely posed some problems we're under Charter Review Committee right now and that is one of the suggested changes yeah so it is being looked at um and this is something that I I personally prefer uh commissioner or counsel hiring the city manager and the City attorney so the City attorney does not answer to the city manager um because you it kind of provides a little balance for you regardless of how the City attorney is um selected you want to always remember that the City attorney is never your personal attorney um but now I I also want to um you mentioned that you're going through a charter review which is a great thing and so always remember that anything that decide that needs to be changed in the charter like making the mayor not just men the mayor in your Charter is referred to as he yeah um so um as we used to joke around with our mayor Mr Mayor got that changed this past year she finally got to be Madame mayor um so these things that you're look that you're identifying in the charter the you probably don't want to put that if there's a lot of changes you don't want to put them all on the ballot at once pick the most important once to get out and you want to inform the voters why this is important so this way they support it because any Charter changes has to go to a vote of the people so education is power education is very important because people will let some will just vote Yes some will vote no they'll see City attorney like oh no we're gonna get suit you know um you want to make sure that you control that message you control the message of the changes that are going into the charter or that you're asked being asked into the charter okay and just to clarify we not a week mayor form of government because I have a vote correct commission yeah it's a commission it's a commission manager form of government and to the the um city manager does have um discretion to um change the organization as they see fit to benefit the city as well so correct you don't necessarily have to go to a charter for a change would that be correct um it depends on what the change is if you're changing something in the charter it has to go to the Charter and it has to go to a vote of the people now if it's re re reorganizing the departments in the the city um and how those boxes move around that can be done by the city manager usually like they'll explain to you why they want to do that but that can be done by the city manager right the um how you currently have it so what the city manager cannot do is say that the City attorney no longer appoint us um answers to me they will now answer to the commission because that is in the charter that the City attorney answers to the city manager okay in instructure okay are we any further questions for those in Zoom okay thank you we can go on okay um so roles and responsibilities we've been touching on this this is the one I said I want to do the Deep dive we've been diving oh the oh the other thing I think well I think before yeah I I think that's that that is correct because I was just thinking we always had a contracted um attorney now we have a hired own attorney uh as staff so I guess that would still be the same situation correct because it's stated in the charter yeah the the like the US Constitution y state constitution Charters all right so roles and responsibilities in this section we're going to cover your your responsibilities the city manager's responsibility and then oversight so here is the annual evaluation of the city manager and possibly a City attorney if you if the charter is changed and that is now a charter commission a charter role so first what do you all do you set Direction and that is hard you've got a lot of people talking to you and asking you to go in different directions and you've got to figure out longterm what is best for the city of FL death um so you if you think about the city as a corporation in Florida that's what they are you are the shareholders and the city manager is the CEO you set the directions the city manager needs to um Implement so you set the direction you set the ordinances you you decide what changes might may or may not get into the um Charter because before the people vote on it you have to vote to put it on the ballot to get let them vote on it so there there is this process but you have that big picture um policies that you're passing you want to make sure it's for the best for the public good for Public Health and for Public Safety um assess needed structural updates and changes this I'm talking about the charter so if you look at that Charter and you go some things might just not we we really should revisit this um so I did not see where you have to like every five every eight years five years you so that's something this yeah we did that about four years ago in Jack's speach so we did a full Charter review and um it it was a lot of work um so look at the structural changes and updates and you don't have so one of the suggestions I would say in your CH in the city Charter say that we will revisit the city Charter every like seven year you want it to be on off Cycles um but you don't have to wait for that to change the charter if if you see that something should be adjusted or changeed you can move it before the time period that it's in the charter to review it um so the when you're looking at what to put in a charter you don't want to put things in a charter that are uh that that that can change but you know it's it's more of something that you want that's be flexible that should be in policies and ordinances internal policies and ordinances when you're looking at structure though or something that the community is passionate about that rises to the level of going into the charter so what you'll see on a lot of and a lot of in North Florida Northeast Florida on all the beaches communities they have a height limit of 35 feet in their Charter a lot of them have it in their Charters so regardless of who gets elected to the council or the commission they can't change that it has to go to a vote of the people right um so like that that means it rises to that the charter level you don't want to put um things in the charter like um there will always be two stop site signs on First Street you know you know things like that so you want to make sure that that it's structural um assess needed policy updates and changes so when we say policy updates and changes you're going to really rely on the city manager on this um so some of this can be policies that let me think about oh everybody so speeding in neighborhoods everybody complains about speeding in neighborhoods and you're like all right well what's our our policy on speed bumps speed humps if you let's say you have a policy that says well we don't do them just we don't do them maybe over time that policy might want to be adj adjusted to say that may during these instances this is something we may want to look at for the safe the health and safety of the people who live in this community um when you're looking at internal policies like the procurement policy extremely important but now that is going to fall on staff but you need to approve like there's a lot of stuff in there um so if you're looking at how how contracts are um put out how uh who decid decides the the software that's purchased and all that's all done through procurement and so if the procurement needs to be updated you want to make sure that you you know if you're hearing complaints from people you let the city manager know and um she will know all right this is an area that we should look at uh ensure fiscal responsibility president and future so this is where we get back into that intergovernmental relations thing nobody likes their milit rate raised right um so so if the and so you can't raise the millage rate but we also have a cap in Florida that you cannot increase um proper prop you can't increase it by more than 3% annually if costs outpace that 3% which might have happened in the last couple years um you know you are really going to be in a weird situation where you're going to have to sell it to the people that you might need to do an millage increase or if you're not going to do you're like everybody's like no all right then what are we going to cut because if you don't have the money to pay for it you're going to have to cut something what would you like to pull back on do you want L police officers you want to clean the parks less often so and these are policy decisions that need to be made um so you want to make sure that you're fiscally responsible with their taxpayer dollars the state does put some limitations on you you you're not allowed to um raise your own taxes so we have um a lot of in home rule you you if because you're a chartered um City you have a lot you deci you can do anything that the state says you can't do except for fiscal policy the state controls the fiscal policy um so you want to make sure that you understand how the money is Flowing uh where it's being used what goes to the county are you getting your County Services that you are paying for that's something that I know a lot of City County relationships are dealing with so that's why you want to have that good relationship with the county um tax collector and appraiser and whomever is the CFO for the county because you want to know all right so we're we're paying this percentage to the county where does that money go can you just like show me where it goes for animal control where it goes for roads where it goes for the prisons and all that stuff and they should be able to really relatively easily relatively easily um track that for you um uh fiscal respon and it's going to be difficult because again nobody's gonna want there everybody wants to get more services and pay less taxes or keep it the same it's and they see it it's very very easy because they'll just get rid of the services that they don't use the problem is somebody is using those services and they're saying the same thing so you got to be the the rational headed one so most of this if I may is occurring pretty much during that budgeting process you know the three months or all that we invest our time and energy in that that's when we're doing pretty much what you're saying right and um different cities have a different timelines but it it generally is on on the administrative side budgeting is all year round you might get a month off in November then in in December your department heads are looking at what they're going to need for this upcoming year what the priorities are um um and they've got to put their budgets in and who are they going to need to hire more individuals and what's going to be the cost of the budget and eventually so they all the department heads give the wish list to the city manager and the city manager then takes the scissors and cuts it all a piece and then she has these little happy people all holding hands and nobody gets everything they want but everybody gets what they need I think that's the easiest way that I can put it um and most importantly you hire and oversee the city manager city manager should annual evaluations and um so what I pushed for when I was on Council in Jack Beach because we didn't have city manager evaluations for a long time um was that yeah we have City we have to have um evaluations of the city manager but it can't just be one way like the perspect perspective of the electeds to the city manager because the city manager is Hands-On with the department heads so what we agreed to in Jack speech is there it's there's two different groups that evaluate the city manager the department heads and the commission over there the council and so this way you're getting a better view because they they they could just be making you really really happy saying everything that you want to hear and they might be a horrible person to the the staff right and to also I mean like we used do the 360 degree U reviews where you you evaluate yourself then you have some peers evaluation you and then you also have your Superior evaluate you and so you got a 360 degree um evaluation but yeah like you say I just added just one additional component in there you evaluate yourself to kind of understand and see okay this is the way I think I'm performing as opposed to my peers or whoever else in the department head or the city manager whatever yeah generally speaking how I've seen the the city manager um evaluations go is that city manager does write up what they've accomplished and so that would be like the the self- evaluation part right um and that is presented in addition to everybody else's stuff for the commission to decide um um hire fire if they're hired what percentage raise if any because now you go back to the fiscal piece and you got to have that guide I mean you got to have that guide where where you got your priorities your Mission Vision strategy and so we just implemented that um okay so so we just gota focus on that and get those things excent before everybody you guys are in a good spaceace first time yeah well I I dealt with this in Jack Beach when I was on Council I'm like all right I have some goals I want we have to look at the LDC I want a vision a mission a strategic plan and an implementation plan we got all of those and then I worked with the city manager with the approval of Council on the implementation plan so how he developed this implementation plan like how do you implement the Strategic plan right because that's another thing that I do on the a side hustle it's a side hustle um so so those are your your responsibilities again oversight of the city manager the city manager H is supposed to have control and oversight of the city's staff to make sure everything is done to your satisfaction and Beyond next so here so what does the manager got to do um they're the implementor and the resource provider so you might want to know why can't we do this well in this is she is the expert in City management she's also the expert in the CFO so she's she can tell you um so the city manager functions is the CEO of the organization um manages the organization oversees all the staff does not mean that her span of control is she's interacting with every staff member she she should know all the staff members and they know her but the Direct Control would go to the department head then to the assistants and then to the managers and then but there can right there's a chain of command and that's a that's a piece of accountability so if something goes wrong you know where it why what area it went wrong in which again is a reason why you try not to you don't want to engage staff because at that point accountability wise the city manager now can't identify where the problem happened um but he or she will then be held accountable for it so um another thing is that you provide um the city manager will provide information to the elected officials and the information that is provided should be all the information that you need to make the best decision that you can it's not one-sided it's not another sided it's information for you to make a good decision so when you get staff reports ask questions because you want to be fiscally responsible so ask questions if you don't understand something don't feel like oh no everybody else is going to know they don't but the experts will so what the department heads will be here the city manager will be here the City attorney will be here to answer the questions because you want to make sure that you clearly understand what it is that um you are being asked to vote on or spend money on or a policy so let's say you're looking at the speed bumps the speed humps you're looking at that and um you're like oh yeah we definely need to slow down the traffic because they're driving like crazy around here and then you'd ask the public works oh it's not that much more asphalt we can do that and paint some lines on it yeah that that's good police uh the police chief comes up and goes well there might be some issues so now you have to balance the two and again that's a policy role but they are there to be experts for to provide you with information um and then help selected official develop policy so you all ran for office because you have some issues not you have issues there are issues that you have seen in the Comm you know I've run for office too so I can say that we have issues but no you have seen issues in the community that you want to have resolved and the city manager will not only if if he or she does not know how what how to approach that she has an excellent Network the city managers all network with each other and they have they go through fccma and you are not only looking at this city manager's experience you are getting the experience from city managers and the retired city managers from throughout the state and I can guarantee you that someone has dealt with this or dealt with a similar issue and so the city manager job is to research that and provide you all of the information she was able to provide find and this way you now have options on how to what kind Pol what direction do you want the policy to go in to handle this particular problem so that is a city manager role so you don't have to do all the homework I mean you can do a little bit just to kind of get a framework but when you don't have to count you don't have to C email every city manager throughout Florida saying have you had a problem with speed homes and speeding in neighborhoods um you have a city manager who can do that um implements policies and priorities so every um year now that you have a strategic plan y you um you have priorities and so every year you have to figure out what your priorities are and those top PRI and there needs to be some things that rise above the others um or else there's no priorities so um the city manager is going to implement those priorities so that those are going to R rise to the top so if there are other things um that you you want you can't keep asking the city manager like I want all of it done tomorrow no you have to prioritize if you want all this stuff done within a short time frame do you really want to hire the staff I need to be able to accomplish that this is where you have to do the balance you have X amount of staff you have X amount of dollars and you have a whole bunch of things you could want to have done you need to balance it all out and the city manager and the CFO who happen to be the same person right now will help you through that process um ensure laws and procedures are followed so this is a city manager and the city clerk making sure that your meetings are noticed that they're Ada accessible that the the minutes are there your website is Ada compant um you are following all the legal laws and policies that the state is mandating that you follow um and then hires and bues staff you ever want to hear great stories or not great stories weird stories that you're like people really do that ask city managers what are some of the weird things that you've had to deal with as a city manager because the one thing about being a city manager is no day is ever the same as the last and you you will get some wacky situations that you got to deal with you go what were you thinking you smile you move through it and then you share it with your little city manager Network people but you know um they got stories they people former city managers have write books about their weird stories some of them are great I I I love them but anyways they're great stories if you want an exciting career go into City management there's a reason why I like that I'm kind of anyways next all right so oversight public accountability this is back when we go into the evaluation so all communication from Council to staff goes through the city manager and um the staff can reply to you but the city manager would be CC the city manager access communication and um request Hub so if you are requesting something is it in the priorities is it something that's already getting done it goes to the city manager when citizen contacts you about a pothole but we're just going to assume it's a city street because we won't even get into the county road and and all those other ones so let's just assume it's a city street something that you can do if you contact the Public Works director hey that Road's got a pothole everybody else has contacted them go through the city manager so the Public Works director only gets one pothole full phone call um commission oversees the city manager again this is where you have the evaluations do them annually and be um be honest and forthright also remember these evaluations are done in public the this is also a public record so just always keep that in mind yeah I have a question so like um if um if there's something urgent going on and it's easier of in this particular instance to affect what needs to be completed for the Commissioners to interact directly for instance with police chief fire chief Public Works director sometimes in those instances I just say to those three categories hey no it's good you know keep up with the commissioner just keep me informed yeah that's cool as long as it goes through you because you run the organization yeah I know I got you um so yeah as long as it goes you and it's clear that this this is the param these are the parameters right now that you could just reach right out to the police chief of the fire chief and some there are times when I I move backward and I say no no no I want you to stay with them stay with them just keep me informed yeah C and and that's cool yeah okay thank you yes so while we're on the city manager evaluations um we're we're in the process of getting ready to um go through and do interviews for hiring new city managers uh it has not been done in terms of the complete um commission doing evaluations so what was your recommend should be as it relates to that in terms of bringing somebody in day one whether it's the current uh interim who would be chosen or the new individual who be chosen to fill that role uh they want to have something to provide to that individual for direction in terms of what they need to uh be able to achieve with sitting down with them uh giv a with the um well you're going to work with the city manager to say okay well hey here's what we we would like for you to do okay how do you how does this fit within your schedule do you think you can you so it has to be agreed upon both ways and so what's your recommendation on something along those lines um it should be in their contract that they will be evaluated on X date um every year by the commission um think about when you're thinking about the date also think about elections when you're ele because um if you are a city manager and you're getting evaluated two months or a month after an election and you have three new people on the commission three people have never worked with you how are they going to really evaluate you so keep that in mind as well when you're looking at the time frame um as for an evaluation form there are different forms from fccma they have just template forms so you can pull that and then you can Workshop it as a commission um say which ones do you think should be the priority here when a new city manager or the interim city manager is hired a city manager um go through what you've decided is the best thing you can also um the HR department is also going to be involved in this so you want to they should be included in that conversation so think you're asking about setting those objectives yes and goals up front so the person knows what the expectations are and can be evaluated on those and another follow-up question when you do have a new city manager and they're in a probationary period do you do an evaluation assessment before the end of that so they kind of know where they stand or where they need to improve yes you do um if for no other contct right and so you you it's like a smaller evaluation right correct um but it's to get off get off of probation so you do the evaluation there and when you're doing an evaluation it's areas that can be improved on and then any employer should always any manag should always be asking what can I do to help you meet these objectives I I have a question in the evaluation of the city manager um is there any possible way I know the answer but I I'm looking for a backup here is there any possible way to do that in private uh a lot of members of the public were appalled um that such a personal employment issue was vetted in the public form is there a way to do that behind closed doors no um that's what I thought too but so now if there are some like issues that's for lack of better term do those one-on-one with the city manager because remember you when the public sees a lot of turmoil in administration that makes them at unease and so you want to make sure that they feel confident in their government so there might be some internal fuffeling going on but you don't want that to fall out into the public Arena so the one-on-one approach in that case right um and then if you these scores which are going to be made public and who said and who rated them at what if they're low just say I I think that you know i' I've spoken personally with this individual and so I but I would like to see an improvement for the following year okay thank [Music] you three minutes oh okay so next 30 minutes at the what you it's 520 and I still have to 520 now 15 probably 10 15 minutes yeah so is 15 okay still have to P over okay all right cool next I can get through this is the one I wanted to go into deeply SO meetings we will cover the conduct of a meeting the types of meetings votes in a meeting meeting and then budget so we'll I'll do these I can get this 15 you're good all right so next conducting the meeting you want to decide upfront early on with any new council with any new commission what are going to be the procedures of the the meeting um how is it going to be conducted so most of them are done by Robert's Rules of Order and and but what to what extent so Robert's Rules if you know it really well actually at some instances go against the Sun law so you can't actually follow Robert's Rules completely so you're going to have some kind of an adjustment to it but I would also say that these proced how the parliamentary procedures for your meetings should be documented and done as a policy uh you could do a legislative policy to make sure that any new person or citizen wants to know how this meetings are run how can I have an input they see the procedure right there um noticed and agenda again these fall back onto specifically the city clerk um that people have to know in advance what that there is going to be a meeting what the body is and what they're going to be talking about you are not legally stuck to the agenda there are some adjustments that can like you can pull things off an agenda when you put something on it has to you want to make sure it's an emergency because you don't want the public saying well you're just trying to slide this in the back door I know there's a lot of shenanigans going on the word Shenanigans can you also do like a new business um you can pres you can new businesses whatever the the city manager will have that what the new business is and these are things that was do you have workshops no yeah but like for City business so one of the things that could help is if the commission gets together and holds workshops maybe once a month so you can have a more informal conversation about who how is that agenda going to be set for the the next month's meetings um and that way it's noticed it's public the public tends not to have input at those meetings but you can speak more freely than you can at a um uh commission meeting right and and that's what's been pushed for for quite some time in terms of like when you're having those even the pre- agenda the pre- agenda meetings where we're not in with the department heads for the most part and then if we um we can't go to meet with them one onone or whatever without having to communicate that through the city manager so when things come up we need to be able to get that information firsthand to be so that everybody know the same information at the same time yeah I I strongly recommend um workshops in those Workshops the items on that Workshop to be framed around what your priorities are and what you're trying to move forward right um and so this way you are all getting the same information from the department heads together and again you can talk freely between each other and you're not as regiment um minutes there needs to be minutes of all meetings make sure you read those minutes don't just approve them because once they're approved they are the legal documented minutes of that meeting so if Karen feels like I didn't like that vote I'm gonna switch it you approve those me minutes you know not that you would do that but like that that is an extreme example that would never happen but like but because it is now the official off record of the meeting it's the official record I gotta make sure I gotta make sure before tonight's meeting I got to look back at the meetings again yes exactly um and then public records the public can make any kind of a public records request they're not charged for the records but they are Char charged for staff time to be able to gather those records um so or paper printed on um so what everything that you say at meetings becomes a public record what you say in meetings can be used in court again it is a public record this is specifically next um this is really important when we get into um quasi judicial meetings this is where you're going to have citizens freaking out about something a new development in their neighborhood and you you're sweating you're like but I I'm getting voted on next week and that that whatat is coming and they're saying I'm not voting for anybody who votes for this but if there is no competent and substantial evidence as to why you should vote it down you have to vote for it so my suggestion there look for competent and substantial evidence um and but so what happens is the judge looks at the minutes and the public record and looks at why why it was voted down and if no one is stating exactly what in the code what provision you are referring to this is the reason I voted it down and I took this piece of comp competent and substantial evidence as my reason to apply this to vote it down if that connection's not made the judge is going to say you you you caved into the public will and you've paid for the court fees for you and the the person who sued the city for not being able to do it always tie it back all every public records critical did you well the Quasi judicial yes is that a legislative meeting um I think I have that one as the next slide so okay hold the questions on quasi judicial till I get to this go ahead um every meeting of the commission and um bodies all follow open meeting laws noticed agenda minutes um types you have your legislative meetings that's the meeting that you're gonna have immediately following this meeting um where you do business you you vote on stuff you pass stuff you do um or ordinances and resolutions um special legislative meetings sometimes you have to hold a special meeting something that's coming up really quickly you often see these during B budget season where you have to hold a special meeting so you can get it done before the October 1 deadline um non-legislative meetings that's what this is so this is a workshop also public hearings let's say that that the people who are mad about something being developed you know that this is going to be an issue you want to get out in front of it hold a public Workshop where people can come and speak freely to you you're not voting um but they can pour their H hearts out to you because you care about um how they are loving or not loving their neighborhoods and then organizational meetings this would be one like at the beginning of when a new commission comes together after an election you want to have an organizational meeting where you decide on those parliamentary procedures and how what how are you going to be conducting business for the public good question on the um public hearing example would be um if you have more than one commissioner that may be at the meeting and the people uh you have um the community coming out voicing their opinion on whatever may be coming before vote now you shouldn't take a position on certain thing like a commissioner should not say how they support or don't support something during that particular meeting I mean would you okay so this is still subject to Sunshine right um You can unless it is land use you cannot have a position position on land use caus you judicial stuff because the evidence hasn't been presented to you okay that's I just want to put this out there because it's always better to just kind of leave it like thank you very much for this input I'll take this into consideration right um but if you get into the land use like quasi judicial stuff because it is the body is acting as a a judge at that point the judge's decision can only only be made on the evidence presented at the trial or at the hearing right okay thank you appreciate um next decision making um city man like this so this is city manager business these are like contracts you going to vote on all the the the regular the the the policies and things that you need to pass the um you know a new contract pieces like that city manager businesses ordinances these are the new laws you're going to have that you're you're passing for your community um this could be changes to the code it could be you know your whatever the ordinance is which are different than resolutions resolutions mean that you all come together and you agree on let's say it's the Florida League of cities they have their legislative um agenda for the um legislative action days and you do a resolution to accept that you you put that forward and that's what it let so it's like we support this it does not have the weight of an ordinance and so when you're looking at ordinances they are laws but they are not criminal laws they're like civil so you have criminal and civil so this is not the Law and Order law um again everything that is said in a public meeting is part of the public record and it can be used in court so let's go back to that quasi judicial meeting this is um rezoning uh Planning Commission it's all quasi judicial you you need competent and substantial evidence I strongly recommend that you spend time with um your City attorney or somebody who specializes in land use to go through what it is that you should be looking for when you are making these quasi quasi judicial decisions and um like some places they get people who testif you know before you you get sworn in know it is you are acting as a judge next see yeah oh sorry missed one fiscal responsibility budgets um and I'm going to do a very high level piece on budgets so you have an annual budget this is your operating budget it's your your um fiscal year FY right now we are in 2425 where you're starting the process for 2526 this is the one that's due every October 1st in that annual budget you're going to have a capital budget that capital budget is a fiveyear out for big things that are going to cost money over the course of five years so you start putting money away a little bit each year so pay attention to your capital budget um and then you have Enterprise funds so your airport would be an Enterprise fund your um your gas would be an Enterprise fund do you have a golf course Enterprise fund Enterprise funds are their own little they're their own little businesses and they should be paying for themselves so any of the excess in the Enterprise funds so once all of the expenses of the business that it's part of are covered it can put money back into the general fund as long as the State of Florida still allows that currently they do but it was up last year about electric we have our own electric thing I'm like H oh so um again you want to really pay attention you want you're into governmental relations you want to know what's going on in Tallahassee um over the last many years several years the state has been encroaching more and more on home rule um and so remember that when you're looking at this and you're being fiscally responsible with the people's tax dollars but you still need the city to do a whole bunch of stuff that costs money and it costs more money now than it did five years ago you have a millage rate and you are you're relatively stuck at that so 3% until that property is sold then it can go back up to what it's currently valued at but until it's sold it's stuck at that three % so you always going to have that cap um roll back rate roll back rate means that the city in year two will only bring in the same amount of money as it did the previous year in in year one um regardless of what the millage rate is no City really does that because no I mean honestly do you spend the same exact amount of money from one year to the next no um so what you're going to be hit with every year as an elected official is a trim notice and it looks like to the public you're raising their taxes because technically you kind of are but you're not raising the millage rate they just have to pay more in taxes because of that the value went up uh it's very hard for the general public to understand and it it's kind of like a trickery um but ju just be prepared for it so you don't raise the millage rate you're like oh yeah keeping holding study trim rate comes out your phone will ring your emails will blow up next and then questions recap talked about the structure uh Sunshine laws ethics conflict of interest the roles and responsibility you all set the policy Direction let the city manager run the city um and then you oversee if things are happening in the city that you don't like you speak to the city manager about it um and have the city manager correct it uh and then meetings and decision makings you guys have a really hard job nobody like I don't agree with myself all the time time never mind when you look at the community and they don't agree with things and you are being asked to make decisions that impact their quality of life their livelihoods and just their day-to-day being because local government is the one that impacts people the most you're never going to make everyone happy but think of it as what is the best decision that you can make to make sure that you feel comfortable with how you voted and you know that you've helped as many people as you could with that vote next questions yes uh um going back to New Commissioners and getting um kind of like a agreed upon operating especially for parliamentary procedures because I'm a new commissioner and I am very well versed on parliamentary procedures and I have come from organizations where it is very strict yes and I'm recognizing that in the absence of knowing what the standard agreed upon is for a body I tend to yield to the strict law of Robert's Rule and um so that's kind of a workshop opportunity I suppose for us yeah the yeah had that opportunity so I think it's imperative yeah okay and getting people up to speed but that's a key portion okay and and part of it is just me explaining myself to the my new colleagues well always remember that governing is a team sport it's not all on you it's not all on staff you need to make sure that you have systems in place that help you work together in the best ways that you possibly can while maintaining the public trust yes ma'am can I tell her thank you absolutely you you did an awesome job you just I'd like to tell you thank you very much app you gonna do a magnificent and wonderful job um the photos are all of fla more time on the photos that's a nice Personal Touch I love that let's and I tried to have the photos match the the text as much I should excellent J you all have the print out so you have my contact information if questions pop up um I am more than I I'm around so yeah please feel free to reach out we'll just call it a word Smith kind of thing you did a magnificent and wonderful job so we'll call it mag wonderful thank you I'm an academic I get to make up words I'm gonna I like that we're keeping that way okay and remember uh this is an an arm of Florida League of services senior advisor oh I'm not a senior advis well you know no that's like George Forbes I'm not retired yet I know but I did find you that way okay I'm just say thank you all right uh there are Refreshments Refreshments for you all I moved to adjourn thank you and you have food uh Commissioners and also Dr Georgette we do have sandwiches for you oh I'm I'm good I'm I got a head up to Ikea my husband wants a that I got from my --------- ##VIDEO ID:MR-7LwBNTq4## e e e e e e e e e e e everybody Welcome to the city of Palaca City Commission meeting January 23rd 2025 at 6: p.m. I am calling the meeting to order we'll begin with the invocation by Pastor malberry and the Pledge of Allegiance led by commissioner Borum B his father we thank you again for allowing us to come together we thank you for how good you've been all day long it was you that woke us up it was you that allow us to see this day and we thank you Father we pray your bless upon this meeting on tonight pray that your purpose your will your plan will be made manifest open our understanding up God to what is necessary to move this city in the right direction we give you praise and glory for all you do for us it is in Jesus name we pray thank God amen amen please follow me in the pledge ALG to the of the United States of America and to the repblic for naice roll call Madam clerk assistant Madam clerk not an assistant clerk commissioner Campbell uh yes uh commissioner Campbell is not here today he's had a new family member born yesterday congratulations congratulations to commissioner Campbell and family congs commissioner Jones present mayor carea present commissioner boram present commissioner Davis present thank you we have quum and so we can move forward Madame mayor yes I'd like to make a motion please do um I move that we move um agenda item 8 C up on the agenda thank you and makes perfect sense so that the city clerk can conduct her duties for the rest of the meeting a second a motion have a motion in a second all in favor I any any opposition okay thank you so we will go right to 8C adopt resolution 2025 R12 ratifying the city manager appointment of Karen Hayes MMC as a city clerk of the city of Paca do you have a motion to approve motion to approve second all in favor I I thank you swearing in ceremony good evening J I am Leanne Williams Deputy city clerk for the city of alatua and and the Northeast uh region District director for the Florida Association of city clerks it is my honor to form this learing Karen please place your hand on the Book of Rules and raise your right repeat after me I Karen Haye do solemnly swear I will support and honor to the best of my ability I will support all applicable laws allcable laws of the State of Florida puam county and the City of patka and I will Faithfully perform the duties of my appointed office of city fler in a fair Equitable and um eth man beit dignity and responsibilities of the office so help me God you have a new C CL Madame mayor Miss Hayes didn't have the privilege of a pinning ceremony so tonight as your clerk takes her place in your city on behalf of the Florida Association of city clerks president board of directors and its members the Florida Association of city clerks professional education committee and the Northeast District we recognize the significant dedication and diligence one must have to obtain the municipal Clerk's designation Karen Hayes we congratulate you right yeah come she want say few words no we'll let you speak we want you to say a few words you can say a few words that's take the photo and we can say a few words we just did it in a different order it's fine thank you would you like to say a few words Madam city clerk I am a person of less words um I really don't like to be in the center of attention but I just want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to serve the city of PLA and I hope that our future will be bright and rewarding to all of us and the commission my doors are always open so thank you thank you thank you on to the approval of the minutes has anybody had everybody had an opportunity to review the January 6 2020 25 minutes do we have a motion to approve motion to approve the motion is second I'll in favor I I any opposition thank you we'll go on to public recognition Employee of the Month Miss Jones mayor commissioner at this time I would ask that we just um move employee of the month for this time due to some unforeseen information obtained for our candidate until next month okay thank you recognition commissioner Tammy mccal eight years of service as miss m commission she here okay well we're going to have speaker is Mary lawon Brown here okay Reverend flag she flag Reverend Flags here I saw Reverend flag yeah Reverend flag is could you please come up to the podium to recognize commissioner mccal even though she's not here to recognize okay okay okay is everybody okay with that okay thank you thank you for coming out Rend frog recognition of new PL pla city of pla highers new highers Miss Jones okay Madame mayor Commissioners um we just like to um recognize all of the new hearts for the month of December and into January the first part of January here at the city of Pica um miss Karen Hayes our city clerk I'm Christen Odum our new C coordinator Melanie ly police officer Anthony Harold police officer Anthony Napier sanitation driver William Shelly police officer Amber couver Finance specialist to thank you welcome to all our new employees presentation presentation regarding school zone traffic enforcement Chief Shaw all right while we're waiting for that I'll just uh take a minute to introduce Jeff uh as we all spoke to each of you individually I apologize May Commissioners please welcome uh as I spoke to you earlier or previously in regards to the schools own safety I want to be able to have someone come in and provide a presentation to you to give you more facts on what we're looking into and what you can expect to uh help with any decisions we have to make if we need to bring it back at a later time so uh I had the opportunity to meet Jeff several months ago and uh when the bill was released uh he helped with a lot of information um leading Us in the area we needed to go and also provided a demo for numbers for us for the city um and I told him at the proper time that we would like to be able to bring it back for you all and provide a presentation to give you the information that they was able to provide to us at the police department so you can be caught up and then we can then uh have further discussions later down the road so if I could uh while they're bringing up the presentation if I can bring up Jeff from Global Newall or Newall global good thanks Chief please give us your name for the re yes ma'am it's Jeff ianuzi I'm with Novoa Global and uh we are a local Florida based company in fact we're the only vendor that does this that's legitimately 100% based in the State of Florida it's okay the present is the you submitted for the packet that was a pdf version of it oh you can pull that up you're missing a short missing a couple videos on there we able to hook up my laptop or can I give you that portion of Itor that's it there wait a second it came up yeah okay okay thank you guess this won't work that well there we go okay I don't know where the volume's at so we want to just make sure um we go ahead and start the presentation I'll go into more after that oh h d so uh who are we we are a local Florida based Community or a vendor like I said we are the only ones that do that I am a father of three school age children myself um this is something that I felt like I needed to get behind uh when I started doing this um they asked me why I didn't jump into um the red light cameras and I said quite frankly I don't believe in them put me in front of something where I can believe in it and I'll be able to talk about it with no problems and I can I believe in school's own safety more than anything I believe the way that we do the program um for this will be beneficial not only for your schools but for your community as well um so our Solutions uh we have a number of different solutions uh that are there obviously we're here to talk about school's Z Solutions um you can go to the next slide and again we are the only Florida based uh photo enforcement company in the State of Florida uh we have been here uh since 2010 uh we not only have uh Partnerships within the State of Florida but also throughout the country um as well as in uh some country uh in Colombia and South America as well um we are the only Florida MBE company uh we have solution we're only certified Florida MBE company uh all our Tex operator servers processing mailing postmark and bank accounts are in the state of Florida uh we're responsive flexible and uh our customer service is second to none we also have an agreement currently with flock safety um for uh LPR integration as well into that which the chapiz stuff at length and depending on how we proceed with this could be on how you want to do it you can go to the next slide please all right again some of our customers right here in the central Florida we uh actually do railroad uh warning violations for the city of Orlando it's not something that's a violation violation supported system but we do that for them and actually bright line now Tacoma Washington um Winter Park Florida we have a red light program there fight Washington Pensacola Florida Chattanooga Tennessee centerp Point Alabama Washington D.C and more most currently we now have uh Lake Helen uh as one of our school zones uh as well as chiefin Florida um our school zone um Florida contracts that are newly signed um we have we encourage you when you're looking at vendors to talk to their customers um I I believe our customers I know our customers will give you the highest appraisal as far as the way we do way we do things in our customer service our customer service is second to none and we make sure that we we take care of our Partnerships you go on to the next slide um what our equipment looks like so from an officer standpoint uh when they review uh we look at obviously the the highdef photos and they have the ability to view those as well uh anybody in the police department will have that ability to do so uh we use a multi-tracking radar system uh to track every single vehicle within the cone simultaneously so how do we get that so that we know that that violator is the person actually um committing the violation well we go beyond that we have algorithms set up that uh during the time that that vehicle's in the cone it continuously predicts and then measures the speed every 20 milliseconds so five times a second it will continuously read that vehicle if it's not where that vehicle is supposed to be or it's predicted to be it throws that image out beyond that you see the the green the virtual green lines they're based on fixed points um in every system that we do and we after all that's done we take a time over distance measurement to determine the speed or confirm that the speed is the same as the radar so at that point it's just math at that point there's no getting around the you know what you know what could happen with the radar system and all that other stuff we use the radar as a trigger to trigger the system and get into the operation of it and then from that point um the multi-tracking throughout the time it's in the cone and then the uh and then after that we go into the time over distance measurement excuse me is it possible to move that into presentation mode thank you thank see that I understand yeah um so you can see the different areas we do make sure that the uh also that the the camera is facing the flashing Beacon as well so that you can see that uh during the violation and uh your officer will be able to review that and the Violator will be able to review that on our website as well I'll show you that in a moment you can go to the next slide um again just clear image quality uh we make sure that you you have the image quality so that we can help you identify who that driver is the officer will then go through and approve the violation at that point you can move on to the next slide this is just a video of it I think you might actually have to click to play it but just a video of a violation this this one is obviously in the state of Washington but this is what a typical system would look like you can see the High defition video You' be able to identify even other vehicles passing uh if need be from an investigation standpoint God forbid something happens in a school zone or whatever it may be and again we are just looking at if they approve or reject is strictly up to the officer on how they on how they do that we at Novoa Global are never going to force your officer we we believe in officer discretion okay we believe that's that's a big part of this um so the officer must approve or reject we're never going to force them to do anything I know some vendors especially when the red lights came in were very pushy about what they wanted and what they called a violation okay we're we're a little bit different the trigger speed for us is 11 miles per hour okay uh state law that has to be 10 or over we it's 11 miles per hour so that there is no question that that vehicle is speeding it's not going to be less than that a violation in the State of Florida for speeding in school zone where speeding fines are doubled would carry cost of $350 to $400 and even on higher up than that if an officer pulls them over on the side of the road not to mention points on their driver's license three points if it's under 15 miles per hour and four points if it goes above that so with us these violations first of all carry no points whatsoever on their driver's license they do carry a monetary um penalty and it's $100 okay so it is I won't say it's nothing but in comparison to what a school zone citation would be from a law enforcement officer it is significantly cheaper and more I would say 99.9% of the time we do not have a reoccurrence of the same violator in the same school zone so it it is very effective in what it does it will slow people down in your school zones and it will make your school zones uh obviously significantly safer you can go on to the next slide just more pictures of what are uh what our equipment looks like this is obviously in in a different area than the state of Washington this is in um New Mexico you can go on to the next slide there's obviously investigative benefits as well I think you got to click on that um there you go um and you know we are able to identify the vehicles this is a red light camera that we have in uh in or Orange County in b a Florida uh the motorcyclist obviously went through all the lanes of traffic he survived um he did survive but the point of me showing you this video obviously is the fact that our our highdefinition cameras will be able to pick up anything that's within that cone um and make sure that you're able to see what's going on so hopefully you don't have any crashes in your school zone but it will help from an investigative standpoint as well for your police officers to be able to actually see what happened in in in those school zones and that kind of thing um we do have LPR integration throughout uh with different companies uh we've been a we've shown that we've been able to use multiple vendors to actually um put in and compare and and figure out where a vehicle is gone uh with multiple jurisdictions and multiple vendors so we're able to do that and we have the agreement with flock safety up there um our LPR program uh is there to also give you another another form of investigative assistance for um basically there's no cost to you as a city it's all violate violate or support it uh on these on these systems go on to the next slide so that's basically it I'll tell you a little bit about us again uh we are a local Florida based company Carlos lofstead is our CEO president CEO he is very highly involved in every single um partnership that we have um um we're here to make your city safer he is a big believer in his in our mission statement to make our community safe and more importantly the vision zero uh aspect of it and these uh systems that will help your school zon slow people down in your school zones they will absolutely 100% be also towards that Vision zero uh statement if you ever choose as a city to um go ahead and apply for that um I leave it open for you all to have a few other questions if anybody has any questions I'll be more than happy to answer it does anybody have any questions I have a big question on the um you mentioned that your your company and the video that you have is all is Florida based correct everything so there nothing will go across other jurisdictional lines or anything as it relates to that no and we are the only company that does everything in the State of Florida our call center is right here in the State of Florida um our mailings come out from a Florida address our office our headquarters is on San Lake Road in Orlando um so it's uh right down the street from Bel ale Bel ale has been one of our largest custom or I'm sorry they're a very they're a smaller city than the city of Paca but they've been one of our biggest Partnerships that we've had for many many years and you know we when we ask you to sign a contract with us just like any vendor it's typically five years it's a five-year contract we don't want you to just say hey we're going to sign a five-year contract our goal is to have you re knew it with us and keep on going and if you ask some of our Partnerships especially the long-term ones like Bel and Chattanooga and places along those lines we've been in business with them for a number of years and we we very much take care of our Partnerships the other question is uh you mentioned a couple of acronyms MBE and then you also LPR uh cameras so can you give me back for those MBE is the minority business um we're we're certified my minority business uh in the State of Florida um Enterprise and uh uh we are the only vendor uh that does this that is certified as an MBE in the State of Florida and um LPR I'm sorry is a license plate reader okay um and so what that is it's uh we do have our own LPR cameras but we also have a partnership with flock um the advantage to that is if you choose to do that you I believe you guys already have flock as a but you can actually add to your systems you can have more flock LPR cameras um just based on how we do the pricing on this and it's all violator support it so the depending on how you choose how to go through with this process you either will choose a fixed fee doesn't make a lot of sense with school zones because you have 12 months out of the Year kids aren't in school that much out of the year if if they're not actually you know you're not actually having violators where payments are being made then you're going to start every every basically school year in the rear because you're going to have to owe those back months it's still only going to be on violator supported or violator based um payments but the fact of the matter is we with school zones which differs from from Red Lights you have the option of doing a shared Revenue so basically you split a fee with us based on the $100 fine 40 of it goes to State schools crossing guards crossing guard training 60 of it goes to the the city or the police department and out of that we we take a percentage out of that uh to pay for the camera and we we do pay for all the upfront cost there's nothing that the city has to pay um we pay for the engineering we pay for the permitting uh we we install the we have we actually pay a contractor to install the poll we have our own techs actually install the equipment on the polls and and we take care of all that up front so there's nothing the city has to do up front other than the time that you have to you know pass a city ordinance and officer time obviously for approval and things along those lines but there is no upfront cost to the city of Paca we pay everything any further questions yes I have a couple of questions yes sir uh a few years ago we got rid of the red light camera um I think it was the the uh decision of the community I don't know Chief could speak on that I wasn't a commissioner at the time but I know we had them and then they went away I would like to know why did we get rid of them um but number one that's the first question U was it from a push from the commission Community um or what why did we get rid of those first question I I guess I'll be the first one to answer the first question uh the push to get rid of them was a decision by the commission but it was basically addressing the fact when we initially got the cameras it was to address the traffic crash safety for intersections and we found that instead of reducing it was beginning to increase uh with the sudden stops and things of that nature so some data that we provided to the commission helped on the decision to get rid of the red light canas okay that's one question so could that also ha happen in these instances where people realize and kind of saw it in video realized that they were speeding through the The Zone and pressed on braks I know that that can happen but I wanted to hear from you and your perspective okay that's number one number two and I'm not for or against I just want the questions up front so we could think about them number two um is there any statistical data from our police uh Department that supports U the need for such uh control at our school zones yes sir I'm going to answer that right now as far um so we did a speed study for you um at the putam Academy of Arts and Sciences last March okay and that was one of the roadways that that was selected by the police department and um during a period of three days um we saw a number of different violations uh within and again that's 11 over um 144 uh on the first day 181 on the second day and 120 on the third day that is people doing 11 miles per hour over in that school zone during that time frame not to mention the ones that are still over the speed limit at 1 to 10 miles per hour which we weren't we wouldn't be issuing a violation for which there there is more than there's more than double that triple that in some cases as far as far as the people that were going over the speed limit and again any any time where you have speed involving a pedestrian let alone a child you you are you are taking that risk into your hands the idea to answer your first question as far as people hitting their brakes and things along those lines yes we want to make sure that the person is is actually committing a violation now where does the school zone start the school zones were placed there as a safety issue by the schools by the county you know and by the state so where that school zone starts is where that person is supposed to be um obviously already down to that speed just in case a child runs out in the middle of the road they'll be able to stop significantly easier so we do want them to slow down and hit on their brakes beforehand and before they get to that zone so we're going to take that if you looked at where those virtual green lines are they're in there they're not right just right past um the line they were a little bit past where that was it wasn't right at the line and we'll go from there and just to kind of piggyback on what the chief said we we have seen a lot of this in Florida and I say we because again I am a Florida resident um I told you at the beginning I wasn't a huge fan of red lights to begin with it's why I didn't jump into this beforehand I have a uh I have a pretty long career and and and not only enforcement but photo and video enforcement as well um where this differs is you are not writing somebody at 3:00 in the morning for stopping over a crossbar or making a right-hand turn on red or things along those lines in fact we're one of the few companies that even before they made it hey you you should be it's it's up to the city to ask whether or not they want a rightand turn on red we were one of the few companies that was actually doing that when we took over for winter park from a larger vendor um not only did we increase number of violations but we actually decreased the reason for violations for them they didn't want to get hit of right they didn't want to get rid of right-and turn on reds completely so what do we do we did a uh um we put a speed component into that where it has to be 12 miles per hour or over before we issued a right hand turn on righted and and in City of Winter Park so we try to make it work for what your city's needs are um and then go from there and and again we just want to make sure that people slow down we've shown this to be very effective in slowing people down um you have some cut-throughs that are not city of Paca roads in other words you have non-pa residents that are coming through your city and just completely disregarding your school zones um and your speed limits you know overall so again the idea is for us is we we are not here to um go after the citizens of Palaca we want everybody to slow down but the idea for us is we we have a public awareness campaign uh that is part of our procedure into this and and what we do is we make sure that this the public is aware of these and we want their Buy in I understand that cameras are difficult and things like that but we want to protect your kids mayor if I can just make a a comment um in full transparency I've seen the Speeders through the school zones um but I actually lived in a community that implemented a similar system so I have personally seen it worked I have personally received a citation when I did not know it existed but the good news it was in the 30-day grace period because it was new to our community okay um one of the biggest changes is that um and what caught me is that this system was in place an hour before school started and an hour after school started and the in anytime there was were students at school versus just a few minutes we may see the yellow lights the other thing I will say is that there was a significant decrease in Speeders there was a significant um decrease over time in the number of drivers who receive citations because they learn to respect the areas so I have seen it at work it is effective and the goal is to ensure that our students and people who are in the school area are safe during that time and um if I had to be hit by a car much rather be hit 20 miles an hour than 5050 thank you yes ma'am absolutely and I'll just I'll just say to that yeah we also do a warning period it's part of state law now the state law for the State of Florida it's 30 minutes prior to school starts to 30 minutes after that's the beacon times that we do it and yes there is an in between time as well now if the schools for example have a breakfast which a number of schools have a morning time breakfast they're able to extend that Beacon time for those breakfast times so that you have those students that are walking to school during those breakfast hour so that could be why it was an hour before um but I can't I can't speak on it but that that's the only other way that I would go before that and then yes during the time it would go back to the regular speed limit one of the things that brought up in chiefin for example is we actually talked about with the Commissioners about them wanting to do it at 15 miles per hour before we issued a violation during the during the non-beacon times while kids were in school um in the end one of the Commissioners said look we have one of the high schools where our kids are leaving school coming to school at all hours of the day so for them keeping it at at 11 was very important to them because they had they had kids on the work program that they were leaving school to that they were doing dual enrollment they were doing a number of different things you know that high school students do um and then you never know what's going on in elementary schools and what's going on with the kids and things along those lines so that's and one of the things about us is that's completely up to you how you want to handle it we're not going to force you thank you for the information we want to wrap it up well I said I had three questions and you so I didn't get to the third one okay go um not to be rude so my third one was how many school zones are currently in the city limits of Paca knowing that we're going to lose to here in the near future and will it take a dedicated officer to actually just review and do those uh those violations currently there is three that is solely in the city of Paca and we will have uh from my understanding all three uh for a a number of time for the near future uh the three that I'm mentioning is Palm Avenue which is the put County School arts and science that uh Jeff just previously mentioned the other is the high school um on St John's Avenue and then the third is on Hudson Avenue with Moy so those are our three schools that we currently have those are the three schools that was tested um and then the time frame we did meet with the school board and we did notify them of what what we were looking into to make sure that it was something that they were interested in um and something that they supported and we did notify them of all three locations and they supported all three locations they also stated they'd be willing to provide a letter of uh support to you guys to show uh for all three location I think we reported that um I'm not um the comeb back that however I thought it was report that we're going to lose the school on Hudson Avenue as well as James Al long so there only be two in the city I just want to make sure that that is correct but not not in the near future but thank you thank you for the presentation thank you thank you SMA Healthcare please give us your name and city of residence through the record good evening my name is Nancy Russo and I the regional vice president for um putham and St John's County for SMA Healthcare and my city of res residence is Palm Coast though and uh first of all I want to thank you for your partnership since 2019 for our dropin Center and um I'm coming to you today to go over the services that we have a little bit of history on our organization and then um some possible funding options so the first the first page just goes over the history of SMA how we came to be we started way back in 1967 in our mental health piece and um 1970 in the substance use and then back in um the 19 1983 area we combined the two agencies to become s Stuart marchment act Corporation we then later rebranded as SMA Healthcare which is what we are today sorry for all the clicks I didn't I didn't create the presentation I'm sorry um our annual funding budget is um ever growing because we are um increasing our footprint across Florida we are in six counties and the benefit to putam County and patka is that when um a resident of the community comes to services with us if we don't have the service we can connect them to another County partner that does so we do have a full Continuum of Care at our disposal then we have our annual funding by county and we get um the majority of our funding does come from DCF in putam County specific I've been working diligently to try to get rural County grants to expand our services because we are a smaller County we don't qualify for as much funding as the bigger counties do so my goal has always been since I um came on board eight years ago if Bia county has it puam County can have it so I've been trying to get there um then the next slide talks about um just the percentage of Revenue Per County and all of the different locations across all of the counties that we serve so really just a a broad overview and then the next slide goes into the map and where all of the different locations um are across our County and by the Numbers overall all six counties together we were able to serve 37,8 44 clients um in the packet that you also have there is an impact statement or impact report and it breaks it down a little bit more Per County and if you need the putam specific numbers I can get those for you but right now putham and St John's in that impact report are combined and then the next slide is this is our um organizational chart of our executive management team and so we are very um Broad in our experiences we have our chief medical officer who is a board certified psychiatrist we have a medical director who is another board-certified psychiatrist that supervises the um providers that do the psychiatric care in our AG in our different locations and then we also have a medical director who is over our Primary Care programs which we have just started here in patka and um that's a very unique program because it is helping women who have substance exposed newborns and helping pregnant women women who are possibly using or um trying to stay in recovery and get them the medications they need to do that and have a healthy delivery and then just our goals for putam County we want to be the go-to agency we want to be the expert in the field for um for everyone in the community we want to be that person that you reach out to uh we have several leaders in different subject matter areas and again again just because they don't work in putham County doesn't mean that they're not at our disposal I can get anyone throughout putam County if we specifically we have our senior director over our crisis stabilization unit he is an expert on the Baker Act and the Marchman act I can get him at any time to come and do a presentation whenever needed so that's the kind of expertise that we have that we can bring and then we also operate on our no wrong door policy and that means that's okay that means that our citizens are provided the service Andor guidance regardless of their ability to pay and um we are trying to expand our delivery services in every area of the Continuum next slide and we used to have a residential and detox program here several years ago but due to funding Cuts we did um choose to close that program because a lot of the clients that we were serving in that program were not putam County residents because we were not a a receiving facility for substance use so a lot of those clients were going to Daytona and then we were taking Daytona's overflow so we didn't feel like that was a proper use of the community dollar so we chose to close that program we are now through a legislative um budget request we got Renovations through the county to renovate this building bring it more up to um you know today's standards and then we have a legislative budget request that was approved to be able to open a 15 bed residential program in partnership with the jail to be able to do a re-entry for people who may have been in the recovery pod and need some extra time need that help to get back acclimated to the community and get the services that they need and then of course we started the small Primary Care program but our goal is to expand it and start a pharmacy on site as well and then again we have been blessed with all of the Partnerships including the city of gka and all the others listed here especially through a lot of the grants we wouldn't have been able to get without the Partnerships and then just a um this is our full service of Continuum across all of our programs across all six counties again having access to all of those just because they're not here and then the the question of utilization of funding if we were giving funding how would we use it it would be to to um again be that safety net provider for the community the no wrong door approach ensuring that the citizens can receive Services regardless of their ability to pay and that we would expand our capacity in our psychiatric program being able to help those that have serious mental illness such as schizophrenia and bipolar and major depression and be able to also offer them assistance in getting medications if they don't have insurance medications for psychiatric care are are are so expensive and we have assistance through our Pharmacy and Daytona that can help with you know getting those samples to them at a reduced cost and then also like I you know have repeated plenty of times that all of our services are open to the community and we can help transport to wherever they need to go if we don't have it here thank you any questions question yes morning time please go ahead commissioner go ahead commissioner bman which go ahead commissioner Borman then we'll get to commissioner Jones well uh I know you you are you guys located um I thought we're at Krill and 13 that is our droing Center and that's the one that we've partnered with the city since 2019 okay and the other location that you had on the screen is on Karin right off of St John's okay so they're both in in the in in the city up yes okay and again like you said you were going to um also provide the the stats for cut them specific U I like to see the the breakout for Palaca as well but we need to work closely with the with the county as well because it's certainly a need for not just to separate the county and the city but it's certainly a need for our County as a whole so we information but I just like to see the num thank you commissioner Jones commissioner Bart answer pretty much while thank you thank you thank you next presentation the blue crab book Rewards program good evening Commissioners good evening uh mayor city manager City staff my fellow blacka citizens um my name is c amayu some of you may know me as the editor of the dancing Macedon magazine which is a magazine here in North Palaca I am here actually for a inquiry request for funding of a program that I created uh in collaboration with bluecrab Productions the putham County School District officials and also um the putam Chamber of Commerce uh not to take up a lot of time uh short synopsis uh if if you remember the booket program uh the booket program uh was a program that was designed the previous generation to essentially boost reading scores for students um uh that program essentially when a student completed their reading goals or task at a school they were gifted a reward uh uh a free pizza free small personal pan pizza and um for the students that was a a something that actually increased their act their their their motivation it was a positive reinforcement for them essentially uh we took that old idea and we're bringing that we're customizing that idea for the local area for our students so um for so so essentially a student in one of our elementary schools our participating elementary schools uh we are covering James a long melon um Mosley Elementary uh the children Reading Center um Kelly Smith the putham library and other elementary schools also in the the county so once a student uh completes their reading tasks at their individual schools whether it's AR or um reading 180 essentially we would get them a a a $10 certificate to a local business here so instead of them going to a a National Brand store that they will actually be given a gift certificate to a local business and um um essentially it will go to drive um local our local economy we can go back to the first slide yes this one yes uh so I am charged with developing uh local youth business programs and I established that promotion of literacy is going to be a founding principle of the programs to ensure our youth and our future residents are literate and the community continues to invest in literacy as an inheritance so that when our students grow up they'll be able to make conscious sound decisions so I developed this uh with coordination with uh P putam County School Board officials we went over the numbers of the different schools uh what are the percentage of students who are performing on tasks with their reading levels what can we do to um help them increase their reading scores and essentially um we came up with this program it's aimed at 58 the 5800 students Elementary School students in our district are in our County uh after going over the previous the previous year years and what students are currently doing in their their reading uh we we essentially figured out that about 20% of the students in most of the schools complete their reading task so we targeted 1200 students in all um that's our um projected number of students who actually complete their reading task at their schools um and this is using the already um reading program of Accelerated Reader and um read 180 so upon completion of their reading scores are their their their reading tasks we gift them with a $10 certificate to a local business a local participating business um most of the businesses are already affiliated with the putam County Chamber um but the requirement is that they are a local business you can go to the next slide uh these are some of the businesses that we've already uh spoken with uh I'm looking to um add additional businesses as well um we just wanted to make sure that we build our funding Gap um this is a direct I I call it washing two backs essentially um the students are rewarded for their reading scores we're we're encouraging and giving them a positive reinforcement for reading and then um also we are having a direct impact on the local business as well uh thank you is there any okay okay sorry um yeah just to go real quick uh putam County Chamber of Commerce is going to be our our Fiscal Agent so they're going to be our quarterback on this and financial advisor our program cost is uh 13.4k um we are requesting uh F 5K from the city of Paka um our other uh the other the other places that we are going for funding is going to be the the putam County government and also um Community Foundation of northeast Florida and that will essentially uh cover our bases um the last one so what are the benefits of the program um not only are we promoting literacy and giving the students a a tangible reward all of us um if if you partic participated in the booket program you know how it motivated you uh but at the end of this program we'll be able because this is the only reading program that's going to be uh introduced this semester in the last semester in the district at the end of the program we will be able to to to determine if there're read gains or losses of of all of the at all of the elementary schools if this program works if it works then we will actually roll it over into the secondary um as well so it it it will not just be Elementary will it will also Encompass the secondary as well so um benefits of tangible rewards um students um understanding that concept of learning being going from learning a learner to a earner what what you learn also affects how you earn and then also our local B businesses will benefit from these rewards and increase sales thank you question commissioner Jamis yes um I noticed you said in the slide U the program cost is $13.4 th000 yes and you are requesting funds from the city of Paca for I think I saw 5 to 10K yes but just five we will be requesting seven from the county and other from other sources okay so um there are and I correct me if I'm wrong I believe there are three elementary schools in the city of alka yes mostley James a long and Kelly Smith yes so I know also you referenc that this is a program in partnership with puam County schools in the chamber and you are coming to the city of Paca only I'm assuming other than the other um financing sources you identified but no other municipalities in putam county for their schools uh well it's got we're we're basically I'm coming to the city the putam county the putam county um government um and we will also um look for funding amongst other ources to wherever we can fill that Gap I think the so uh also going to be as I think commissioner Davis was alluding to the elementary school say in Crescent City or in in and and are you approaching those municipalities okay I don't know so if that's the case and and I I just look just looking at a little math so 5K is about 37% of this $1 13.4 th000 total program cost is the program cost per year a total program cost how long is the program just some details and what's included in the program cost okay um so the program cross is initially the launch of for the fourth quarter this program will begin spring break and end at the end of the school year um what our projected number of 1,200 students essentially um $10 um per 1,200 students um that gives us that 12,000 Mark there and then we have an administrative fee added and that's the program cost any additional questions commission I one and commission we'll be right with you one minute um commissioner Campbell go ahead okay commissioner Campbell thank you commissioner Bor thank you mayor and I actually kind of want to piggyback on the questions that commissioner Davis inquired with the given um and asking for the amount that we H um that you're asking for us what is the Buy in financially from the school district being that this is something that is going to be implemented uh via the school district what is the Buy in financially with them well essentially this is kind of a a preliminary um program that is uh let me get this right that is a initiative by Blue Crab uh the putam chamber and my and blue crab and putam chamber we're essentially launching this program it's a it's a program that we design if if the district um if the program is successful then the district itself would um be interested be interested financially or be interested be interested financially that district is not um is not contributing to this program this is um strictly from the citizens okay and my next question is do you have the data of students that did participate in the booket OR currently participates in the AR and how did you come up with a number of 1,200 yes we do have the data um so essentially uh the AR program automatically uh puts out the data for each School of which students are completing their task and essentially we are going to be piggybacking on the a the R data of those students so that's the data that we use to determine our our 1200 number of what the students what students were already completing their reading task so we we went over uh each of the schools from last year and saw okay um James a long for example okay this was the number uh this are this is the total number of students they have and this is the number of students who are actually reaching their their meeting goals and uh we did that with each of the schools and we determined that uh um based on that data that 20% of the students are basically finishing their reading goals so that was something that we wanted that was the number that we used as our basis for coming up with the 1200 students so I just want to make sure that I have a complete understanding this is going to piggyback off existing uh I mean profiles that have already been established we're just rewarding or you're just looking to reward students double because they'll get rewarded from the school level however they get rewarded but you're looking to reward them from the community as well yes this is a a reciprocal program I believe the school has a a program where they actually gift the students books already um what that program is more this program is more designed as a a re a positive reinforcement not just a hey um you should read more our these books but you know we're kind of gifting you know I just want to make sure that there's an understanding to my fellow Commissioners that we that you're looking to piggyback off an existing program yes yes any further questions commissioner I know you do no I'm talking about commissioner Campbell do you have any more questions commissioner Campbell no not at this time thank you thank you commissioner Bor yes I think it's awesome program to try to Target those who really need to step up and improve the reading skills um but again going back to the breakdown as it relates to which entities are given funding to this and that um that that the school district doesn't have any buyin to it that's what I'm understanding uh well I just we worked with the school district officials to basically come up with the numbers the school district as of yet this it's kind of a a experimental so just to see if this will um if this will have a effect positive or negative on the reading schools my question was was there buying that's my question yes there's buying Financial buying not Financial but just that's my what's my question no okay and so we got that entity we got the um puam County Chamber of Commerce yes what's their contribution they're going to be our Fiscal Agent they're not going to be fiscal contributors no okay and then also the blue crab how much you guys are put so blue crab is actually just the organization where I am designing their programs their business programs okay so but you're you're coming to agencies or organizations and we're asking for funding but then there's no contributions from uh the agencies that's closest to the students that's what I'm hearing blue crab is essentially the blue crab Productions is the program that actually had brought me into create local youth business programs and this is the first initiative that I'm coming out of blue crab with in collaboration with the putam chamber and um yes I understand but I'm not what I'm what I'm saying is I I like to see Buy in skin in the game from everybody who's part of putam County and to help these young people increase and improve their reading in so that they can get these rewards and be recognized and also not only their reading but we want to make sure I don't know how you're looking at the comprehension side of things so how is that being measured as a relates to just a reading portion I believe that um in the piggybacking with on the AR program essentially I believe AR has a number of categories where they are assessing the students so they the students are assessed within the program okay um it's just the reward is is kind of they have a reward system we're adding a additional right and my last question is I I do know that the charter charter school had a reading program because they had some Flagship um reading scores that they had improved their students from like they moved them uh moved great levels from very low to very high and so I do know that they had a program but again I am all for helping um our students uh they are our future but uh I just would like to have everybody to have some skin in the game as it relates to U Public Funding commissioner Campbell yes ma'am thank you mayor um and this question is for legal um I would like to go ahead and let the record reflect I am a putam County School District employee um but I do have a question with regards to if there is a decision that is to be made will I have to recuse myself from voting I know I'm able to take part in the conversation and dialogue but if there is a um this is supposed if say for instance this is going up for a vote or something of that nature in the future will I have to recruise myself right so the quick answer to that is no you are not benefiting uh financially you don't have any pecuniary uh loss or gain from this decision but just a reminder to all the Commissioners um this is presentation only no action may be taken uh that would be for a later time this was simply for informational purposes only but I hope that addresses your question commissioner Campbell it did and I wanted to make sure that question was asked on the be on the front end just in case it is to come back before us that I'm able to move forward um accordingly thank you and to wrap this up I think that and this is I think it's a great concept great program and we as a former teacher want to help students but I also think um the city we have a systematic issue where we don't have a policy for anybody from the community seeking funds similar to this and I think we need to either have a workshop we need to have that develop or work on that policy first because it continues to happen where we have organizations coming forward requesting some money from the city and we don't have policy of process as to how to address that we'll have a draft policy for your consideration at the next meeting thank you we we we do have one um as it relates to agencies coming to ask for money um when don don Holmes were here as a City attorney he helped put that together um the other key thing that I was uh trying to push at the time was that we want to make sure that we want the organization agencies to not uh have this on their um every annual uh budget year that that the city will be funding that and my request was that the city um put in uh funding for things such as this if it if it's deemed that it's a it's a uh good partnership for that particular program that we could put it in for one year and then you have a skip year or whatever so that not looking like that the city is having to fund this program and put this in our budget to have it funded for other agencies so uh my request uh not at this time but we we can Circle back around to it but every um other year or every third year thank you thank you all right thank you for having me and I look forward to giving you whatever you need and thank you working with city thank you on to city manager and administrative reports yes uh thank you you mayor Commissioners um verbally just wanted to give an update that we are moving forward with um trying to secure signage so that when people come over the bridge there is something that says welcome to Paka and that is included in your packet we are making progress with that uh also letting you know that the lead project is completed and uh we'll be submitting the final report to the State of Florida unfortunately we did not find any meters with lead that's an extensive um job that was done uh also we are in the midst of uh making changes within the city organizational chart and just wanted to give you uh UPS on that so we'll be completing that uh very soon and finally we're also pursuing uh the cloudbased uh uh phone system per the recommendation of our it and in order for the completion of the sees which is the criminal justice system server to uh be completed so we're working with suncom and finally with our system that we're utilizing for the commission meetings we're in the midst of improving that we're looking at cameras we're looking at the sound system so we don't want you to think that we're not aware we are aware and we did finalize uh installing some cameras in the cemeteries as as you instructed a long time ago so I wanted you to know that we have been listening and progressing thank you um policy flexible work schedule Miss Jones Madame mayor Commissioners um before you um what's um been um presented in the package for um your review and to make any additions or three policies which um currently is our Flex policy three policies that do not exist um um for the city of Pica a flexible schedule policy a remote work policy as well as a comp policy for our in employees first i' would like to just discuss the flex um work policy is a policy that um just listening to the employees and wning a work life balance um to be able to give our employees either time to have a day off work tens or come in at different hours as long as all of the work schedules are being covered um so that's something that's in there for your review to see if that's something that you would like it's also a good um recruiting tool as well as a retention tool to keep our employees um the comp exempt time policy off is for our employees that we have employees that are required at certain times you know our commission meetings may go long along with other meetings um that they're required to do during a um normal work week so for those hours that they're putting in 50 maybe 52 53 hours a week just to allow them to have comp time so at another time they would be able to take that time off and not to be paid but to be to be able to take that additional time off to also for the salary exempt employees to have a work life balance some of them have to work with times they would be rather be scheduled to have time with their kids at a game or whatever but that would just that's something up for your consideration um if it's something that you would like to implement to help the salary exemp employees the remote work policy we do not currently have anything in place however they have come up times where we have employees that do need to work remote for whatever because they unable to come into the office but they do have the capability of working remote that's a policy that also I have put before you all that um would require approval from the supervisor for an extended period for a period of time that they would be able to work remotely so it's not something that you're working two remote days out of a week or that type schedule at the present this is just for those specific situations say an employee is not able say they have surgery on a toe something like that so they're they can't walk they're not to put a lot of pressure but they are capable of sitting up at their house and working and doing performing their job at home so their supervisor can authorize them to work for that period of time be it a week 3 4 days remotely so that they can still participate in the daily activities here at the city thank you any questions I okay yeah I mean I think what you guys are doing is is something that has been needed for quite some time anyways as it relates to looking at how you can improve the quality of life for the employee having that flexible schedules um and also compensating them not just only with money but also with flexible time off and for people having um the ability to work from remote if they need to um my my highest and most um uh the thing that I'm more so concerned with is making sure that the citizens get what they need I don't care how you you you improve the quality of life for the for the staff but I want to make sure that whatever we're doing internally that the needs of the community are met in conjunction with helping to make uh the quality of life for staff better and that's exactly so with any recommendations that you all may have concerning the policies um that we would uhu add into these policies and if approved that's one step we would take beginning our department head meetings to let the department heads know these are the guidelines this is what you need to have in place and these are and they're all up for review in six months if something is not working out then they can pull those policies those placements of flex schedules at any time so it's not something that's permanent once you in it you stay in and and you can't it can be removed right maybe maybe that you know I know other countries I know um China and also now and over California Microsoft and know all of those companies some of those uh companies also have a lot of um policies that you have and also they allow for their employees to uh take breaks during the day and or sleep or whatever they you know like a take a 15 20 minute nap or whatever because a lot of time people are working more than one job and different things in that nature but we need to make sure that the mental health of our employees are in in in top shape in A1 shape so thank you any additional questions I do I hear you go ahead um commissioner Bor ended with uh something that I think is very important the mental health um of our employees in this policy is there something built in I know some companies and I'm not saying that we have to um is there is there something built in that would allow that to be um you know what never mind I'll get with you directly thank you so just for clarification but I do have I do have um additional with regards to the work home component and the accumulation of the hours that they will get as comp time I want to make sure that those are clearly identified um because some organizations you're only allowed to work from home utilizing your comp time but if that's not something that we're looking to do that we will be able to allocate at the discretion of HR or whomever makes old decisions I want to make sure that it's clearly identified what pot they will be dealing in okay and the the comp time AC crew can only be used within that pay period correct thinkk you comp time the way it's written the comp time has to be used within um I think two weeks yeah with the not two weeks I'm sorry two months they can only accumulate 40 hours within a month okay which is probably not going to happen so it's not like they can drag it on and it also states that if an employee were to leave and have come time for a salary is not payable okay and I I think I just want whatever that time frame is that there's a time frame that you must and you all can adjust that time frame of accumulation of how you know how long or anything give me all the feedback and I'll bring it back with all of the corrections or adjustments or changes that um at the desire of the commission thank you okay and I was asking for clarification if you're seeking recommendation or approval today it sounds like you're seeking feedback and recommendation uh for the next agenda yes okay okay so if if you could have our information into Miss Jones before ideally by next week yes because of the agenda by the next Friday the agenda will be can I ask a question go ahead sh us Mr Jones could you provide a another municipality that is doing this type of pro project or program for their exempt employees and so that we could actually have it as a tool to use I mean not a company a municipality um yes sir I know we're service oriented and we provide services to the community and U I just would like to see what type of jobs would actually be a work from home what example would you give me on that I mean I know because a police officer couldn't work from home no be out on the street all employees will not be able to work from home um the ex um so what what ex I know what exemp me okay specifically what our director levels and above is that what you're saying that's who our exempt employees um that are salary exempt employees so if any um Regular employee um shouldn't be um don't have the capability of working for home but a hourly employee that can work from home home with the approval of their supervisor for like the scenario that I expressed to you um the I think the salary exempt part is what I'm talking about for comp purposes that's not the work from home the work um the remote work from home is just for specific instances that we don't have anything written and guidelines to go by for an employee that needs to work remotely from home for a period of time whether it's a medical or um for whatever um so and that has to be approved by the supervisor yeah I I would like to see that as requested um because I'm quite sure you're pulling it from somewhere else anyway but you could you P that information will yes sir thank you any further questions okay thank you financial report December 2024 Miss cardi that's okay uh with the Commissioners and mayor and so forth that I present from here financial report U while she's bringing that up I'll at least start that um our annual budget is 76 million and um our actual year to date revenues 12,519 for the city as a whole you with me almost okay and I'll actual expenditures for the city for these three months 6,882 th000 so as of December we actually have more Revenue you can make it a larger place than um expenditures right so even though that looks kind of great however in the second quarter we're going to start spending a lot more money because we'll be working we're currently working on Grant projects um a lot of expenditures really gets started more in January which is our fourth month uh the new positions as you can see are now being brought on on board as well so we do not expect to have such a large Revenue after expenditures but we do as of the end of uh December the airport budget or airport fund which is an Enterprise fund the actual revenues 522,000 and it did operate with a net positive result of 330,000 if you were to move down to the next page please um I'll General fun it's um well let's look at gol course that that's operating also uh with the net plus of 19,000 if you roll a little bit further we'll see that general fund which is our larger fund uh we are at a profit there or revenues are more than the expenses in the amount of 3 million however as I mentioned in January which is this month we are spending a lot more funds because the grants are being actualized third page please next page so looking at better place um uh so all of the funds at this moment are pretty much operating at a positive amount and so this is our first three months you can move on and that is a positive beginning even our utility funds it's operating with a plus of a million and again when when we see the next um three months it's going to be different we are considering uh hoping to move to monthly reporting monthly detail accounting to the Commissioners and so that way we would be able to see it as it's occurring move to the next page please and so this is graphic just at a glance it lets you see our general fund uh actual revenues uh you can see that big blue and that large Blue is general fund uh property taxes so for this moment that's another reason why we have so much revenue left over because we received the bulk of the property taxes a lot of it in that first quarter and as we live we receive less uh monies for property tax have question yes sir is it any Reon reason why we we we don't get it monthly because generally we we should be kept the brast of how uh those expenditures are happening um on that basis so that we know how the city is operating especially if we're responsible for the budget we approve the budget we should know how everything is operating from everything to everything so I think uh monthly would be um what what pushing for for since I've been here so I would like to see the commission to have have those reports monthly yes receiving them and then they stopped right so we got we got to keep them rolling monthly and and we do actually prepare it monthly so that's not a hardship yeah no no those the reports the commission they we need those monthly so we know how the city is out we shouldn't have to ask how the city or get surprised you know either way whether it's a plus or minus exactly so um that will happen starting uh our next month as requested and and the reason why um you are you have been receiving it quarterly that's how it was but I have no problem with changing immediately to monthly can we go to the next slide please and that's uh Citywide actual so again it's letting you see that um the bulk of the revenues are at this moment coming from our general fund but then as we live on we'll see that more funds are coming in with our utility sanitation water and waste water one more slide I believe uh that's looking at Citywide so it makes sense that Citywide actual expenses a larger amount is also general fund and then second to general fund is utilities and finally our last slide so here I try to keep us aware of our our Reserve budget and how we're spending and if we're staying in line uh there is a requirement government uh finance officer Association um it says that we need to be certain that our reserves are at a minimum of um 16.7% and we're currently 23.6% for general f which is specifically where that requirement is okay and uh the rest of the presentation is detail um monthly which going forward you will receive this on a monthly basis thank you I do have a question yes go yes ma'am um for the arpa fund can you scroll back up to arpa yes and tax increment and can you explain then that's small um the Opera okay so for the Opera fund that's where we have um encumbered the 1.5 million and opa is slightly different in the sense that we already have the funds sitting here and we just simply need to spend it uh so as of the end of December for those three months uh we did spend 28,000 and what I need to do here is recognize the uh balance of that 23,000 as Revenue as well so ultimately it's going to be zero to be real thank you and can you also the tax increment fund oh the Tiff okay so with the Tiff fund that is the monies that we receive from the county for the uh property taxes it's and the portion that um belongs to the C Tiff fine so as of the end of December the funds had not yet been received however it is aced and so uh because we do not receive those funds until more like the 1 of January so as of the end of December 31 I can't really see that number well but I believe it's like 260 260 yeah 265,000 627 we had actually spent our acrel and and that was straight a curl uh was 263,000 when this when the funds um matter of fact while I was sitting here I was interacting with finance and as of today we have received almost 600,000 of our Tiff money uh in January okay question I just want to clarify the monthly reporting that you'll be doing in the meetings going forward will be the summary of uh budgeted versus actual just like this but for monthly I heard you say detail and we can get that but again for presentation purposes I want to make sure we have a summary we will thank you and not only that uh if we can put that back up please if you would uh so I can clarify what you're saying all right so uh this is a snapshot and if you wanted to understand what um is the support but that snapshot is like all of this right so the snapshot I'm going to be revising that somewhat by still keeping that annual budget there but I'm going to add year toate budget so that that way when you're glancing at it you you still stay alert to what the annual budget is the 76 million but by Fun it'll be broken out also year-to dat budget versus year to date actual and it will become much more I think relevant additionally I'm going to break it out uh where it's not like this I want to do it per page per fun and it'll make it easier for interpretation okay you for the questions did you have a question commissioner B the let's see yeah we're just in the phase of continual Improvement and I'm happy to uh to even keep doing this because I think the more that as you pointed out commissioner that um our commissioners get prompt information timely information the better you can make decisions so thank you for giving me the freedom thank you to make it better um public works department presentation hio good evening everybody I got a couple presentations I to go over with you guys uh tonight one of them being um where we're at with the uh new facility um and how we're progressing with that and I got a couple slideshows I'd like to start with a tour of our current facility um now most you Commissioners have seen this one already but I think for the benefit of Miss Davis she can yes that's what we wanted okay well while she's working on it I can get into um so the job started over a year and a half ago when they were trying to to put this together we had one respondent to um the actual request for proposal that was Shear Construction now they started working on the proposal um the commissioner approved $160,000 for design build um presentation from them in August of 23 um in July of last year was the last actual correspondence we had with Shear Construction they told us at that point that they need an additional $50,000 to complete the project that they had told us originally is only going to be x amount of dollars at that point some of the ex employees um for the city had left the city they were the last ones to have contact with them and we could not get them to respond to anything at all since then um several months later we went ahead we sent a legal letter over to Shear stating that if you did not contact us we didn't come to some sort of agreement that we were going to sever the contract and we're going to move forward that's where we are right now we have severed a contract with them and we are moving forward bacero is the city um engineering firm that works with us and for us has uh given us a number to go ahead and give us 100% drawings um their their number is $157,000 to do the design drawing which is 3,000 less than the approved through the commission amount I'm actually seeking guidance that I can pursue this after this um and they from the time that we approve and give them a PO we're looking at about four to six months for them to do the drawings to give us complete drawings that we could put out B and actually get the job started so we're we're excited to try to get things finally moving again so but that uh that Public Works update okay well we can run through this too that's fine if it's up before you move so so we're going to do the designs to passero and then put it out the bid for that is correct so we need 100% drawings in order for them what they'll do is give us an actual cost for construction along with the bid so we know about where we're at so we have very strict budget here with this building so their one of their main goals is to make sure that they stay within that that scope so they they'll meet with us we'll go over things we have to remove some things from the drawing you know we're going to try we're gonna not going to try we're going to make this work we're absolutely going to make it work and they are committed to making this work within our budget as well so we there's not opportunity to have a design build someone to do the design in the build well we only had one respondant for to do the whole package and that was sheer construction sir and they so why not send it back out for a design Bill well we we could we could put it back out sir of course we can that would prolong to take a few more months to get that put together but yes sir of course we could so therefore you know whoever is designer is going to also be the Builder and maybe it be more pillar I'm just thinking on how to move the project alone and I don't know what commission think about it but I'm a I'm a big proponent of once we get the prints we put it out the bid because then you're getting several different opinions of what it's going to cost and how they can do it within the scope of work so design build is going to design it and then build it understood I understand what you're saying um but um we didn't get any other respondents to the last one so there's not a lot of companies out there that are capable of doing it I'm sure we can sit was the last one was last RFP was for design bill is that what telling me yes sir right and that was the company that end it didn't work out obviously as we discovered turned out to be unresponsive and I think for the sake of moving on we need to move on question um course how do we handle uh companies that does that in terms of we've uh engaged with I think you we paid a portion of the fund right we have paid zero to them sir as a all right but uh so how do we handle companies that or vendors that does business with the city like that right we well we we went through we get with legal legal puts out a letter stating that if we don't respond within 30 days 15 days whatever what it is and if they don't respond it's clearly that severs the contract so they if they're not going to say anything at all that's and I'm sure that's kept in mind the next time an RFP goes out for a similar thing to that this company it's not reliable frankly right so understand so that that's and that's what my point is um we need to make sure that those individuals or people who um treat the city in that manner that they're not eligible for contracts to work with the city relationship right if they want to Ser we're gonna s it all the way absolutely yeah I don't think we put them on another block take that risk absolutely great presentation yeah go ahead okay um so this is a a public works facility like I said this is recycled we're just going to run through it and just to to get a feel for it um things haven't gotten much better if anything they deteriorated a bit so if we go to next slide please um portion of our office were conducted or built back in 1947 uh many reservations after that have been done by our people we built a a small shed on the back of the office turn that into an office so on and so forth and that's how we came up with what we have today next slide please um that's storage and the bathroom area right there that's another bathroom which I I have to point out that there there's it's not Ada at all there's we couldn't service anybody with any kind of needs in this building whatsoever so go next slide please um that is a uh overall of the offices the rendering it's 1400 square foot we have eight admin staff currently who occupy the facility um we can only see six staff so we kind of get people and we share computers and you know they can only be in there one at a time um and of course the Ada next slide please um the largest fleets which are all our garbage trucks cannot be worked on inside the facility anytime we have to do anything other than change oil or something simple under the hood we have to slide the truck outside and the guys work on the ground outside which is a dirt ground incidentally and anytime they have to get a tool or something different it's it's 160 feet there and back to go get a tool so you talking you start talking about efficiency and time you know at 30- minute fix turns into a 4our fix um next slide please in the climate where it's it's either super hot or super cold or it's one of a two yeah and they're they're they're rough right now it's been pretty bad that's just a shot of them outside having to work outside that's another shot uh you're okay um that's the uh oil pit which most of our vehicles can't even fit on anyway it's only a couple trucks that we can utilize and that's in the existing facility next slide please that's where this is where we service our larger equipment our back hose track hose dump trucks and so on so forth that's really all we have for it um and you can't even get the vehicles into this area because most of them are too big they don't fit underneath next slide please that's the guys outside working on some things uh that's our break room uh there 41 positions we're currently at 43 positions um we we employ 28% of the staff in the city and that is our break room and right through that door is a changing room um they come in they clock in and out um that's really our only common space for our guys to take break or do anything change at the end of the day we have no showering facilities we are a refuge company you think at the end of the day it'd be nice to have something like that next slide please that is the changing room uh that's a old barn it was moved over from Hank Bryan Park back in the 70s and put over here um it's not a very secure building we we have it as secure as we get it it's waterproof but that's where we house most of our parts our expensive Parts our copper parts things of that nature inside that building uh the restrooms are located right to the right there if you see them in the next slide that's the restrooms uh next slide please that's a nonfunctioning shower but that's attached to the restrooms as well uh next slide please okay so that's a pole barn that we have where we keep out the you know the heavy stuff that can't be picked up and walked away with if you look you'll see some holes in the roof and you think hey why don't we just fix set well the trust system is rotting so we can't even screw off the trust system anymore so um unless we refurbish replace all the trusses it's it's pretty much stuck as it is we just move things around to avoid getting damaged next slide please as you can see our vehicles do not fit under there so they always sit halfway out into the yard um next slide please uh everybody here all of our departments from streets facilities storm water maintenance everybody we Shar about 1,200 square foot of storage space which is not even close to enough space if you go to next slide please um as you can see cram everything in where we can next slide please a small tool shop and storage is just we we've outgrown it years ago and there just not enough space in there uh some of the vehicles parked underneath that's where the old um animals rescue people used to be in the back there we utilize that building the best we can uh if you look at that the whole site is dirt so anytime a wind kicks up or something all our vehicles get covered in dirt on a daily um not only does that make it tough to keep us looking good like we should um on a regular basis but it also damages our vehicles tremendously gets up into everything and it's a it's a constant battle for us back there and there's only one way into this area one way in one way out so we have to go in all the trucks have to do three-point turns just to get back out way we park and everything you know we've made it work but it it's very difficult it's not very efficient next uh slide please that is an overhead of the property now as some of you people may remember have been in Palaca for many many years this is the old dump okay this is the old city dump back here and if you look at building F that was the original um offices and everything else was built on and just grown all by City PE Personnel no professional contractors so nothing's insulated properly um nothing it's it's it's kind of rough shape next slide please okay now you can go on to the next slide please next slide please okay I had a couple photos that I attached to it can you bring up any one of those photos please is it in here no I should have there should be three photos of the n silly they were just separate photos that were attached thank you so that is the new facility that we're going to try to build within the fac facility that's existing out there in airport um I included that and send them over an email again so you guys have them to to look at them again um but this was the best use of our space um several mines got together and did this from public works and some of the ex-employees who worked here put a lot of work into putting this together to make it as efficient and well economical quite simply best we could um there'll be 9 foot ceilings throughout that is the overhead that is the the lot so you can see if they follow that yellow line we have an in and an out through the back so our vehicles can flow um straight through in and out just makeing it more efficient fueling stations cleaning stations just all things that we we need to upgrade and update uh next one is there another one should be a third one I thought yeah that's the the 150,000 foot building the storage building so what we did is to try to reduce costs we're not building walls we're putting up fences we need to separate uh you know parts and pieces we don't want one people going over and just grabbing some hoses and anything so we're putting up the eight foot fences throughout that whole building to try to cut back on cost it's one of the things we're trying to do to reduce our cost to keep us within our budgetary uh restraints um and that's basically it for that is there any questions or new facility I think a picture say a thousand words I mean it's pretty obvious 1947 so Way Beyond his youth life so that certainly don't fit today's needs but um again that your design there is it something that are you sacrificing the just okay say you are you selling for this or is it something that you desired to have to make it work for you from efficiency and effect and effect effect understand efficiency and effective is exactly what we went for we did realize going into it with the very first drawing you know had giant chandeliers you know two stories escalators that but reality we we went in from the standpoint that we knew we were we need to keep it with the net budget right and we knew also that hey this might be too much so we went in with the ideas okay we could take this out we can take this out take this out but we are quite satisfied with what's left um and once if you allow us to pacero gets through into the drawings they're going to meet out with us they they want to meet as early as next week with me to walk the properties and then look at some things and there are still some options of things that we can remove we are a facilities maintenance I mean if we got to go in there and we need to gut the place ourselves save 50,000 that's what we're going to do we're going to do everything we can as far as the city goes to save every penny we can to make this happen it's it's really important to us it's it's very very needed situation for public works thank you commissioner Campbell has when you're done yeah sir was it was it I was I wasn't finished okay I said when you're done that's why I said that um that's a Brownfield area if used to be like a dump right it used to be a dump never got did they never get cleaned to the to the point that where everything because it could be funding out there and available for that site to be able to assist maybe with some of the um needed improvements I I there was a lot lot of trash out there it was cleaned up a lot but then a lot of stuff was buried um they do that that's a very typical way of dealing with the refuges and for certain areas the um I'm not sure exactly what the future holds for that property I know that Mr cutright had originally they had a plan to have a Third Ballpark there and add on to Booker which is a great idea in my opinion that's just utilize that make that part bigger back there and better um but it it's ready for that it it is in a position where we could do that without any additional you know dig up trying to remove more trash so we probably got about three or four feet of dirt on top of anything that was ever done there in the back area sir thank you and if I may add the budget that he keeps referring to is based upon that original $3 million where we did the purchase of the property which was 1.6 million so 1.62 four so that's what we have sitting in reserve that 1.3 million and that is the limitation that we have given to the um Engineers that is correct and pacero they are our Engineers so there their concerns are our concerns that's why I'm really trying to see if we can move forward with them in this direction I think we're GNA get a better product at this point for that commissioner Campbell the last uh three comments that was made um by Joe by Eric Mardi and by commissioner Bor answered my questions I we every time I see this presentation I get a little angry because we should be farther than what we are with this whole project this project I remember if I recall right the last time we saw this presentation was over a year probably two years ago and we spoke to seven months sir we spoke to the urgency of trying to get this uh situation rectified there should be no reason why any of our city employees are working in conditions in which they are working in I remember when uh Miss Deborah Robinson was there in HR she per she walked through and was disgusted and personally went out and bought some stuff for the area I know there was a refrigerator and just small stuff of that nature and if you hear Joe when he said it hadn't gotten any better it's only gotten worse so I think this is something that we need to go ahead and apply some pressure to whatever pressure we can apply to go ahead and get this done because again no citiz no City employee should be working in those applicable conditions thank you sir I agree and and it took a collaborative effort of uh Public Works legal uh our engineer and myself as a group to even get us where we are now so it took a lot of effort to get to where we are at this moment where we now can say we will be progressing and I think we need to progress the most expedient manner possible and I trust the Judgment of City staff to make those calls and if it if it's to have Theo company provide the drawings and then put it out to bid for construction then that makes sense to me versus starting over again completely to see this be something that comes in stable for the commission I know we often say with things that are pressing or things that I say it all the time we talk about things when they're hot but when they're no longer hot we kind of push them on the back burner until there's something like this again I want this to be something that we keep at the Forefront because these are our employees working in those conditions so I ask as the request of me that this be something that is at least brought to us once a month if not every meeting with an update and to again th this was uh brought back up back when we was talking about the airport property the swap during that time because this did uh go cold and I and and I I brought it up during that time because had went um coal and um so here we are we went from 1.5 million uh initially the bill and then uh it was brought back to the commission a new Commission in 2020 to um press before the commission at seven 7 million and we we we we knocked it down because that was not certainly appropriate for the commission approve something of that magnitude uh could because from 1.5 to 7 Mill and so we agreed on the 3 million and we moved forward with with the 3 million bill and so at during those time periods it did uh grow cold so brought it back up again during the land swap of the airport and so that's why we're going to continuously keep this before stay on the um agenda keep it on the agenda and um so don't let that fall off the agenda thank you any any further discussion on this topic onto water water and waste water Asset Management well I have one more slide show okay I'm sorry it's just a just we'll run through it if you can bring up my other slideshow things you guys yeah oh that all right so the Public Works update just to let you guys know what we've been up to here and what we what we have coming up so uh M Madison Street uh water Bain replacement update I I just think this was important so everybody knows that we are on track with this project um the contractors working between Sixth and 11th Street primarily on the south side of the street I know it helps we had some um underground infrastructure that was in the way so we had to re-engineer a couple things but these guys are out there and they're crushing it they're on track they're within budget and everything looks good we are out there every day watching these guys um they're doing a great job um DB civil has done other projects for the city they do quite well um so everything is running smooth with that project uh street signs and pet pet waste okay so street sign thing we are currently have a active project going which we affectionately call show us a sign because we're trying to get every sign in the city replaced now we have started working in certain areas of the city you'll see but what we're doing at this point is we're doing whole sections of you know one giant section our first section that we're going to be working is around Hank Bryan Park all the way from St John's up to Krill we want every street labeled we want every stop sign up and straight and new um so they've already been ordered for that particular area they're being manufactured and we have found a better Sign Making Manufacturing Company who can give us dates and tell us when they're going to be done at a better price sir um we're excited about this because it's it's just something that's needed to be done for such a long time and we're progressing forward with it uh well um we're also doing the um Petway stations we're starting down at the riverfront now we had to stop because of the weather um cool weather the concrete doesn't set but I promise you we have 50 of these things we're putting them every single Park in the city and we are going to blow through these once we can actually get to to working on them with the concrete oh let me also add um when we do an area in the city with the signs um the problem with the Florida the signs we can't put them in concrete because they have to flex if somebody hits them there's there's certain guidelines that we have to follow by so what happens is when we put new signs in you'll see us we'll do a whole area and you're going to drive by three days later and there's a sign at a angle we have to touch those signs three times wow before they're they'll start setting in and get getting better so I just want everybody know be a little patient with us we are we we drive it every day to be watching and St on top of these things but we do have them where we have to come back let them sit for two weeks and come back and reset them and and pound them in so it is a process just bear with us but everybody's going to benefit from this the city's going to look great we're really excited about doing that same with the pet pet waste stations that's going to be you know something that we've never had here but it's we're excited about that as well um welcome additions Public Works Fleet thank you folks are allowing us to do this um if you look at the top picture that is the F350 um this is a kind of a first for us allows us to bring our shop to down vehicles um we could service some on the spot and get them right back into service um you would think something as easy as changing a tire well those tires with steel rims on weigh almost 300 pounds it takes two people to get them on the back of a truck we now have a Boone crane that can lift up to 2,000 pounds that's why we did a small example with the uh the guys out there and in a tire um it also has a compressor an air compressor 80 80 gallon air compressor 30 gallon air compressor I'm sorry with 175 PSI meaning it's strong enough to do whatever we need so this is this is awesome you'll see the truck out and about and and at all hours of the day um next slide please uh there's just some action shots of the guys doing their things um in the last six months just so everybody knows we we have completed 1,50 work orders which is it's it's quite a task um to to maintain and stay on top of that and that means closed out work orders completed and done um our team if you look at the pictures 110% they go above beyond all time look at those guys they're in the water they're there trying to fix the get a water line back up and they they get in and it's it's it's crazy with these guys do for our citizens and for the city they they love they love their jobs they love the city it's it's it's really something um and we have a a great safety record um 0% workman's compensation claims we don't I am so proud of that so proud of these boys and what they they go out there they look out for each other and and and overall our seven departments that we're currently running and we are one we are one team we we are a family we truly are out there we we strive for Perfection but we accept nothing less than excellent in everything we do um and it's just I I shout out it's not me it's them every day I'm proud of my crew every day so want to put that in there uh next slide please okay that's any question can I just make a comment Joe I want to give Commendation to you and your team and it's great seeing this bright spot in your Bleak working environment and I just want to say thank you guys very much and you know that you are a priority as the Commissioners have said so we will see this through to the end I appreciate you're I certainly want to uh Echo that same sentiment and um thank you guys for all you do day in and day out uh and it it's a true Testament as it relates to the 1250 workorders that you guys work through um and you say zero incidents uh making sure that you guys have all of the equipment don't knock on the wood that A J yeah uh so so you you have all the um safety equip you need in order to do your job and making sure that you're following the safety protocols because even though we're out there we're getting the jobs done we want to do them in the safest way the way people came into to work they need to go home in that same manner and um safety is the top priority and we talked about uh the insurance risk rating or whatever uh we want to make sure that those numbers look good across the a whole spectrum of the city as it relates to people doing some of the things like you're doing and that need to U uh manifest itself across all the Departments thank you sir thank you thank you to the public works team I don't have to reiterate what everybody said we surely appreciate you okay else thank you okay water and waste water Asset Management progress report yes hi uh Mr Brian if you could come the only reason why put this on here is because um they have not done this since 2016 okay okay and um we now are actively doing it and I'd like you to explain it better please um good evening so what this is is um fwa they come out and did um an assessment of our our assets our water Wastewater Water and Sewer it came out in like Miss Kirk the city made say was back in 2016 they come out with a um a file a big book of of of things they their opinions of things that we need to do for our assets um it's laid dormant for a long time on their side they're actively pushing now to um see where we're at with what they looked at 2016 um the onus on this is that um we apply for srf funding and there's a big push that the people that give us this money for srf want to know that we're spending it correctly ly and properly um they don't want people asking for $10 million and coming back in two years asking for another $10 million for repairs or something they just built so they're they've contracted with f frwa to come out and and make sure we're spending the money that we get properly um so it was it was a lot of work it was it was an old book it's outdated it's eight years old um we're going through the book and we're updating names and mistakes that was in the book and things that we've done that's been corrected already and some things that still need to be done um it's a work in progress It's it's a work in progress um and we're diligently working on this um we have some questions we have to answer to them um and in the end it's going to be an updated book and it's going to just show us things that we may need to focus on in the city just to keep our assets soling and if I may add I mean we have how many manholes and how many I mean we have 800 we have 532 Lots you know we have another 600 something in so it's a it's a huge number and um I believe that we were able to have uh Mr Joe didn't uh we have a commitment that they're going to really go out there and do that assessment with our assistance right they're going to start next month doing the assessment of all the real tangible things valves water manholes they're going to come out and get hydrants and we are we're going to help them we're going to assist them with that um with the this by doing this it assists Us in future um grants and things yeah it's it's really a good thing for us to do and it shows our City's strength so and it's updating our GIS that's right all the information that's a great Point thank you um we we're putting into our GIS system which we will have a computer map we can stand over a valve and go hey there's a valve right here and it will show that valve and that's 3 feet you know it's it's pretty so there's no surprises in the future like no man moving us right to the Future this is definitely something that's pretty amazing in their assist with all that it's a good deal okay thank you we just wanted to give you an okay thank you Brian um can I I just ask a question really quickly Brian the um plan that you said you guys are updating you're working on currently updating it that it hasn't been updated in eight years um the F frwa they actually provide assistance with updating that is is that true do you guys have support in getting that updated yes ma'am okay we had a a meeting last week there's I maybe six five six members came out and met with us excellent okay all right just checking resources organization yes okay thank you thank you thank you that's it I'm going to open the floor to public comments please Adit your public comments to three minutes PE please be polite and respectful and give your name and city or town of residence Vicky Duke Vicky Duke Paca Florida um at our last meeting I came and asked some questions about the um intersections where the bricks were and the fact that they were still um nasty looking to me and that we needed something in place to protect the things that we improve as we go forward well it they have been clean they do look a lot better I talked with Joe after our meeting and he informed me that some had been cleaned I'd been downtown shopping for Christmas and that's when I noticed that it still looked bad but um I went back and yes they had been improved a lot and um one of the business owners came out and talked to me and said what there's still gravel you know here that hadn't been put back and I said well they had to be moved to clean the bricks and that um that I'd been assured that they were going to come back and sweep those back in the place and he was concerned about the next rainstorm and getting washed down in the drain but I assured him that Joe had said that that was the next step they'd be doing that I was disappointed that the contractor that should have been cleaning it didn't clean it that we had to hire the city had to hire Sunshine Cleaning to actually clean those bricks and I'm I'm assuming that the city's going to end up paying that not the contractor that should have cleaned them but moving forward um I want our city items to be protected um but I appreciate that the city's saying well they're not going to get it cleaned and Joe taken the initiative to go ahead and sunshine had done business with us and was good for us and they stepped in and took care of that and I assuming the rocks are back of this bad weather that may not happened um and then the other thing I was pleased to see on Channel 4 the MLK parade had it on the news I thought it had gotten cancelled um I knew the one in Jacksonville had gotten cancelled and the one I looked under business putam County chamber.com the poster that was there said it was going to start on Fourth Street going down to the riverfront the events would be at the riverfront so I went down to the riverfront I just didn't think I was capable of walking in that weather and I didn't see anything I said okay it got cancel so I'll watch for when it's rescheduled but I was pleased that night I saw it on Channel 4 and it I was glad that we were highlighted on there for our parade thank very much thank you thank you Mr Vickers is he still here or did he leave is he outside okay missg I mean Mr newfeld I'm sorry I miss one call he got he left too okay Miss Givens good evening everyone Madame mayor Commissioners administrative I gotta be quick because I got a few questions all right what do I need to do as far as the city's policy and procedures as far as having lights um either fixed or turned on on the North side including like the wash Street area north side area surrounding that street over to Madison and over to Napoleon Street also there are some nonprofit organizations that would like to come to Paca and help um the residents I need to know what's the policy and procedures are introducing those nonprofit organizations to the city commission so that they can come in and start helping number three March 19th um through the 20th is the Royal Cy's day I would like to know how do we take children from the city um citizens here and adults that would like to participate ID like to get some information on that and then ID like to jump to July 19 2024 I requested a public records request from attorney West and I will like to share that information with you concerning the city's code of conduct it says general statement this conduct this code of conduct applies to all employees in City service employees violating these Provisions or any provision contained in these policies may be subject to disciplinary action up to an including termination all employees are expected to remember they are public service employees and to conduct themselves according to the follow employes responsibility for personal Personnel policies all employees are responsible for becoming aware and familiar with the policies and procedures which govern their employment with the city all employees are expected to report immediately to their supervisor any and all suspected violations of these policies or of any City regulation regulation failure to do so May subject the employee to disciplinary action conflict of interest city employees who may be in a position to influence City decisions shall refrain from relationships which may adversely affect their judgment in dealing with City suppliers or goods and services or with other public agencies any outside Personnel or business/ economic relationship which affords present or future Financial benefits to an employee an employee family or to individuals with whom the employee has business or financial ties may be considered a conflict of interest requiring evaluation by the city manager or designated representative W the employee acts as director officer agent propor partner stockholder if owning in ex say 10% security outstanding employee paid consultant or advisor to a city supplier or with other public agencies the employee is engaged in a private business or financial relationship which may secure advantage of goods services or influence due to the employees pH with the city the employee procures or designates sources for procurement of any parts materials Services supplies and facilities for the city purchase of or lease in the employees name or in the name of others and this is the last part if I'm able to read it well an employee over time an employee having an outside personal or business economic relationship under the conditions specified above shall disclose in a written sworn statement to the city manager as the nature and scope of the relationship thank you anyway this is in your um your code thank you um if you would I had a couple of questions thank you no we don't do questions answer my question comment thank you right now thank you there'll be an opportunity is there anybody else here for public comment seeing no M's public comment um on to commission and staff response um than car would you or address that that policy that was sent was that the question was about the policy that wasn't that was the set out policy yeah okay who's going to address there wasn't really a question it was just yeah the policy no she was attempting to ask a question but we can't and please don't do that from the audience um okay from the public so can um can we just either a confirm that that is our policy or something yes that is our policy okay thank you and that we need to adhere to our policy and that would be the other piece of it regardless of what the question is um our policies there were also again I don't know M given brought up a couple of other issues um nonprofit organizations have an interest in providing services in the city yes and how do they go about that I would like to follow up on that when I get a moment I will follow up and contact you if that's okay but the nonprofit helping the city correct and the other one was about Madison yeah you can what was the question with that Madison the lighting I think there's the lighting over in that area I think we talked about that in terms of the new LED lighting um fpnl have it's a program that they have Chief Shaw is also working on that him would you come up please Chief show and explain it that would be easier I think yes ma'am uh in in relation to the lighting myself uh director cutright almost called him Commander cutright director cutright um Joe and several other department heads are working on the neighborhood Improvement program is what we discussed previously neighborhood Improvement program one of the major factors in that program is dealing with the lighting right now the area that we are focusing on and addressing is the north side area and we are um attending meetings and get looking at getting those things addressed immediately one of the things we need to improve on there is just not replacing the lightings but to improve the lighting and that's with the uh new LED lighting that's going to make it a lot brighter so we are in the process of reviewing it and addressing it and that we're looking at hoping at uh getting it done um as soon as possible so could I ask a question on it yes you okay so uh with that the funding where you looking for the funding from can we use actually the OPA funding because that's public safety and health and safety would we be able to utilize that or do you have a fund already ear marked for that lighting project so no we don't have a funding earmark for the lighting program um one of the things that the how it's paid for is FPL actually charges the cities for those uh public lights that are on the street lights so those are the lights we're looking at addressing on the public Factor the private factor is with those entities um such as PHA that need to include light not only on the housing but in the courtyards as well so the funding for the public lighting just to uh go we go over it is done by and and funded by the city through the city build to the city right and I know it been some time ago when we first mentioned those lights uh in those areas and uh you know in light of what have taken place and recent events I think lighting is that first step with septad you know crime prevention through uh environmental design and I think that that's that's going to be a big game changer if we light it up and uh I agree totally definitely want to expedite those efforts I just want to say that and that is our Challenge and our our mission moving forward is to address the Li and so funding is an option as commissioner Jones suggested can we look into that please and um what I would like to do is look into it and be certain that I can'ts touch the OPA because we did do encumbering Etc and um I'll also look at the budget itself to see where we do have funds already available that we can pull from thank you so and I will report back if we can with the next agenda yes ma'am and we we have a a meeting coming up in two weeks that where we can also address uh hopefully with FPL and Clay Electric for the areas in our city that that we can look to work on getting some kind of cost analysis back to it um and where where it's going to affect the city thank you because yeah I have a request over in in the area as well and like I said if um they they can't um do that within the city's budget maybe I can probably uh use some my funding to help in that regard for the public safety piece I will I'm not I'm not sure it's going to cost over 5,000 for a light but um if it if it does I'll put forth my um allocation that I have in my budget we use it for that if I could we can't use it for that well well again again I'm I'm all for Public Safety and whatever I can use I will use and we going to we're going to look for some funding going to identify the funding just give me an opportunity we will will Bor if you would I ask if you could send me that location uh I know there's been a location we talked about previously if it's not the same send okay never mind then we've already looked into that and we'll have the cost and recommendations for that because we provided and is it the same that uh the citizen has brought up that is correct it's one we've talked about in the past all right thank you question I'll go ahead commissioner Campell um when we have these meetings with the different lighting organizations I think it'll be to the benefit um or prior to some of those meetings to have public input I know that the police department they are out in the community but I thinktime citizens have locations that are within the city that may not have come up in question that definitely could utilize um better Lighting in the system so I think that we should I don't know if we can create some kind of document or get with Peter public information to have where citizens can submit areas um or is that something that is already in place if so how does a citizen go about go about making an not a request but making an area come to light that may not be up for consideration website so we do have a process in place as it stands right now commissioner um I do agree that we need to do uh probably a little better job of getting that information out and advertising it so that the citizens know how to go about um utilizing and and reporting that information and it is um via the website you would have to basically notify the the either the city manager or um Public Public Works we then go out as a police department not only to do a survey and assess the issue the area we didn't report back and and notify them of what the current status is and if it needs to be addressed and upgraded um from there we contact uh the the electric company whether it be FPL or Clay Electric and we look at getting those um issues upgraded or or replaced and currently on our website we have you can just hit the tab where it says report violations and we can report it there as well the citizens so again I think the only piece to add to commission Kimbell is people aware that's on our website that they can go there and do this we'll start communicating more thank you good point it I mean and I'm I'm not trying to be uh a pain but can we make it I our website is very user friendly but can we make it to where it's specifically says lighting request or something because again you'll have citizens who oh I don't see I don't we I want to try I want to make this as clear as possible you want to make sure that everyone has the same opportunity everyone may not have access to the website so we need to come up with some additional solution so that we can combat all of this because again there are some areas that may not be up for consideration that may need to be considered when we go into these conversations so that we're not going in with bits and pieces but going going in with a more comprehensive plan or comp comp apprehensive request when we're talking to these companies yes sir public information officer just indicated that he will make certain that the website has that added tab for lighting requests as well thank you thank you also um rural County days and how um the general public can go to is that you also brought that up missg about R how does one attend rural County days basically somebody from the community in Tallahassee oh okay and is there transportation for that no there's not if the public wants to go to rural County days in Tallahassee we strongly encourage it but they uh need to provide their own transportation and accommodations thank you and I'll also research it further uh just because it may be a nonprofit or anything like that but I'll research further okay thank with legal as well thank you yeah one more question is everything record request no she made the public records request and she read she had the question though she you covered three things you didn't cover the last what she was talking I didn't hear the question I heard will you repeat your last [Music] question the three minutes were up what you just went over all of the other ones mayor and you did not allow for her to finish the her statement and so you was walking through all of them except for her fourth por I understand what you're saying but she was not able to so you addressed the other three so why not address the last one that's what I'm because her time ran out and if if I've gone over for other people um the commissioner fellow Commissioners have been upset this is comment this is comment qu uh feedback time now and we went over that were posed we went over the three everybody answered the three appropriate what is it appropriate to do I mean ask the so it's not is it appropriate to just not answer the question that she was trying to ask problem is again once we do that we need to do it for everybody In fairness so let them go over three minutes even if their questions haven't been posed and so that sets that precedent is that something we want to do I'm trying to follow the rules that we've set okay okay but mayor okay I respect what you're saying but please be fair this point going forward when when when the three minutes is up be fair to everybody going forward because we do not want people sending um suing the city because they didn't have uh they weren't able to make their their comments were not being heard and so if you're going to be fair just make it three minutes and cut everybody on 53 and that's what I've been trying to do thank you may uh would like to offer to the citizen to please come and meet with me so the additional questions that she may have I will follow up thank you and inform the Commissioners as well thank you w be fair yes sir consent agenda does anybody have any items they want remove from the consent upold from the consent agenda I should say I like May Madame mayor I'd like to pull a a yes okay and i' like to pull G for discussion do you have anything commissioner Campbell that you want to pull for discussion no ma'am I don't commissioner Bor no um I'll make a motion that we pass the consent agenda with the exception of items A and G we have a motion in second all in favor I I any opposition thank you a adopt resolution 2025 R14 approv the additional funds needed for the change order in the amount of $1,555 76 for the water treatment plant granulated activated carbon project City funds Carlos hello good evening to everyone um I would like Chan to stop up in here because he's going to talk a little bit about this project um this is there is a change order that came from this project and Johan will explain like what's the project about and the change order the amount of the change order it's like 1, 26,000 but we already have this money approved like by grants right so the change order was one 1, 126,000 but on grants already approved we have 1, 14,000 so we're missing 12,000 and that's what we're asking the commissioner to approve this 12 this 12,000 for continuing the work so I will have Sean explain what's going on on that on that work good evening Commissioners mayor what we have as he's explained to you already is we have a small amount that we don't have enough coverage for that 12,000 incorporates the two new valves that we need to have put in for safety reasons right now the valve that has failed is our back flush valve from the elevated Tower so if I cannot shut that valve I cannot stop the water from coming back to the pl and do work on it um the other one is for the upgraded valves in the whole yard there's I believe 17 or 20 different valves that needed to go in with the GAC project they were accounted for they were going to be put underground but we had to move them to above ground because we have existing stuff already underground we can't put more there so basically we're just looking for the the 12,000 to get the job finished and finally get this job working um we've been working on this project now for almost four years it's been held up with whether we couldn't get parts or piping couldn't come in it's been an ongoing process and we're finally getting towards the end of it and we're just a little short on the grand end of it if I may no please if I may ask and it just may be my lack of familiarity with this project but when I see change order I assume this project was in progress which you just confirmed it's been going on for a long time so the way I read it is that an additional $1 million is needed even though you've identified where you can pay for that from I still just want to understand this additional million dollars for this change order and I believe it said because operational parameters were updated yes ma'am and my question is does that mean when the project started there were a set of requirements and over the time they have been updated and we need this additional million dollars to meet the new requirement yes ma'am when this project was first designed it was designed to have the water run through the granulated activated carbon and put in one tank okay which is fantastic but our city will not run just on one tank I have to have the option to be able to fill two three different tanks and be able to use a different tank without these valves I can only fill one tank and we will be forever in a deficit on water so I there's no other way around that I have to put these pipes in and these valves okay and I do want to clarify the request is asking for $8,000 yes not 12 12 plus an additional six for the concrete the six would be for the concrete $18,000 it's 18,000 change yeah as it says on the does it say on the consent M it's in the um resolution it's in the resolution yeah I on the resolution it's in the resolu and you you I think you mentioned are you done you mentioned that it's you know 100% Grant funded but here it states clearly ARA funds and FD FD Grant fund so how much are the oper funds what's the breakdown in that let me look at the numbers real quick right here yeah we have it you have it yes it's it's I'm just looking at the page you're not looking at the that's fine he's going to provide it do you hop it in there b we did have it in staff I just can't see the staff report on this but uh the amount initially that was placed in Offa was um 270,000 and um and it's still in the uh budget for this year I on the documents that I upload in there in my say the what a breakdown you see I don't see can are you able to pull up the staff report this item the breakdown and how much of that million4 is coming from Opa and how much is coming from FD because it was stated it was 100% Grant funded but there but it's not break funding she said she said let me see was there I don't see it here Madam mayor can I if I um commissioner Jones is correct there's not a breakdown between the um Grant and the ARA it larger there's a total amount for Grant and arpa funds but it's not broken up between the funding sources correct and I ask that question I G bring it up because when I just asked about the lighting it seems sometimes that you know Opa have been our Saving Grace and I think that we need to be aware and as commissioner Bor always say fiscal responsibility lies on us we need to be aware of where this money is going and how we choosing to just say hey yeah we're gonna put oper funders here or there um so in the effort to do that that's why it's that question I want to be transparent about it that's correct and what underlying item would we so that I that 18,000 it I'm sorry I can't read that staff report but you know I I I mean I actually wrote it and everything to try to include yeah we're talking about the not the 18,000 you're talking about well the only the only thing that this is doing is requesting a budget transfer for the 18 but the original budget in this year uh in the 300 it it was like um 200 originally when we wrote it we had those numbers in there yes I don't have the exent number right here but it was like 800,000 from arpa and from fdp like 200 and something thousand just me a moment let me 041 but we are really just voting on this piece right now we need that information future yeah if the commission is okay with it you know that explanation I'm okay with it but I okay so originally it was the 041 if I can just continue with what I was getting to yes I recognize we're just voting on1 18,000 however the change order is for over a million dollar yes and while you're asking the city for $118,000 the additional million dollars is coming from someplace and while it's not from the city I think we still need to understand the drivers and moving taking money from arpa funds for it the money's there but I I just feel like we have a bigger issue uh understand regulatory changes but a million dollars worth of regulatory changes it makes me ask was the scope of the project correct from the beginning and is this more than a regulatory change is it a scope change because I heard you say we can't use one tank I'm just trying to make sure I understand even though the Project's four years old I'm coming here new as a new commissioner I should be able to understand the project especially if it's four years old and I should also be able to understand why a $1 million change order is necessary to meet a need of an existing project it's bigger than $118,000 it's over a million dollars the city portion is 18 and to commissioner Jones's point we still need to be able to make fiscally sound decisions even if the money is not just coming from the city budget in my opinion and I understand that I I don't disagree and we also need to be able to explain it to any citizen that asks these kind of questions and I want to point out as well is we're both new here too so around say the scope of it has changed no we've just learned the scope of it right now is it bad planning four years ago I can't tell you that that's not for me to give you I can only show you and tell you what I need to get this job done and up and running and I wish I could give you more ma'am the history that I've been able to gain is that four years ago they awarded uh for this project 3.4 million however they didn't really get it going too much uh as now that we're getting close to final not even finalization uh my understanding is of that en 3.4 million we really have only used about 300,000 now this year with Mr Shawn being there and the activation and working with the uh the vendor that we now have they've now said okay now we can get to 1.8 million so from a budgeting perspective during the budgeting even though our primary person left but we did have the grants accountant there so she's the one that has really been helping us through this process so during the budgeting the amount of money that was budget in anticipation of finishing 1.8 million uh we budgeted uh if you look in your detail on page 33 you'll see uh a JL 04111 5336 6330 the budget for this fiscal year was 1, 317,000 because based upon the progress of work that they had completed in the PRI year we knew we needed to have you know at least that 1.3 million in that particular line so this is your carbon filters that's what this is and then um the 300 fund unfortunately I cannot see my line items um let's see if I have them this one when I printed subsequently I'll tell you where that is but in fund 300 which is Opa by the way okay so in Opa uh the go number is 300 65559 8 5100 we budgeted for this fiscal year 200 56,86282 something th000 during this fiscal year they said no we're going to spend the 1.8 million well we knew that when we were doing the budgeting so in budgeting we have in this fiscal year budget the those two items that I identified which is about 1.6 million so we we are covered but with what they have given us we see a shortage the shortage we see is 12,000 so this is a multiple year project we can uh send to uh each commissioner this particular Grant and it's not really even a grant you know in reality it's an srf so it's a um what you call that low interest type loan that is what is financing this project and they've been working on it I guess for three years and they have not done much of anything now in this fiscal year since Mr Sean you've only been there four or five six months um how many months you been there now as a superintendent only seven to eight months that's it right so since he's come on board and we started digging in and working with the contractor that is why they did send to us okay here's the scope and this is the change order but in reality we were approved my understanding Commissioners approved for this particular project uh you approved the city staff they were awarded like 3.4 million for this particular project so so right now we're at the 1.8 level so there will be monies left over right so and I think to the points of commissioner Davis and commissioner Jones the uh what I like to see and I questioned it before for all of the projects that we have to have um where those funds are coming from the GL lines and then what's the uh available fund for that and how much is been encumbered that that helps us out in terms of making sure that the projects are are are within the scope of the budget and we know how much is being encumbered and we can look at the line without having to ask andely on um those and then the other key is the um change orders uh those are should be commissioner uh approved change orders as it relates shouldn't it when it come when we want to approve something and then you get change orders those change orders should be something that we understand and know why we were're getting those changes so I think the details in in in these modification and changes we can go back and look at it and say hey here's why these uh this change order happen it's almost like change management well I completely agree with you and so we received this this is change order number two right uh I did see change order number one in my researching this and it had a value of zero right so change order number two it just came to us on January 9th 2025 so we just got this and that's why we put all that detail in there right this is not a u you know we're not bashing session but I think for clarity and transparency not only for the commission but for the community okay thank you any additional questions discussion no I move to accept second a motion is second I'm going to open the floor up to public comment is there anybody here for public comment on this item saying n close public comment all in favor I I any opposition thank you on to G adopt resolution 2024 r248 approving a short list of firms for RFQ 20247 continuing engineering architecture and Landscape architecture service and authorizing Contracting actions and authorizing contract ex execution you again okay well good evening again Leno yes Loreno might be coming in a few seconds so we have an RFQ out when I came into the city the RFQ was already um already finished so we have evaluation committee it was me Lorenzo and red and that has the evaluation committee for these proposals so we did our homework we did scoring there them like you know and then we came with the you have the the grades and the scores in your in your book right there and you can see them so we are proposing to short list them to three on each category okay yes sir so I pull that because we just had a thorough training this afternoon in the workshop and I noticed that you're right that was done a little previous that you send it to us because I looked at the signatures that's on those things so it's a proposal it's new however it was done previous by someone other than you maybe yes yes I mean I mean the the proposal the RFB was sent out maybe like in August something like that September do you have it in front of you no no sir respons like night responses yes well I'm I'm more on the one particularly about Hansen okay what's your oh yes and I'm sorry it's request for qualification I'm sorry but yeah for qualification and U you know since we so want to get in front of these things before it come up again and it's just so on page on my page it's uh 3 439 in our book when we advertis it there was advertised um June 28 20 24 so as as these have been submitted and there are there there three or four companies that wanted to be on that short list I don't have 439 well it's 439 it says page 13 of 18 RFQ section exhibit B5 75 yeah I'm sorry I'm so sorry yes 27 okay okay page 275 439 please amend it so do you see it everybody we working tonight yeah I'm on that a that's still anyone let me go back are but you made me lose where I was at what what are you looking for specifically Hansen the Hansen yeah so I have that 363 363 363 don't look at me the computer it's set up differently I yeah the computer is all well I've got it I know worry I found we found it you have it okay so can you pull that up the Contin engine engineering architect and Landscape 36 363 36 and we just let him get what he's trying to say out so it can't be the same I'm getting confused here oh yes that's the one you're looking at yeah so let just on for question what we talked about earlier today so I'm not sure but I want to know if in fact we have any information that concern this because and I'm G tell you because I got a a a call asking is there possible conflict with them being considered and I think we did a continuing service contract agreement prior to um this contact the person that's on here for contact leaving us and I would like to to clean it up just to have this personal contact to be one of our current employees here that make sense yes sir because I I I be Jonathan Griffin is on here as a contact person for the city of Paca but as I understand he may have an interest or employment with one of these contractors the engineering firm of Hansen maybe or some type of relationship so these vendors couldn't come back to us not saying that hey you guys knew it was a relationship and you guys considered them or made them the choice I just wanted to say it on record that we're going to try to correct this before we go forward with it if you don't want to do it legally legal do you have any opinion on it or not yeah so we can certainly um request that that employee be firewalled um if we're going to be moving forward with that particular consultant that can be added um to avoid any appearance of impropriety but I absolutely hear what you're saying given what has been going on with ongoing investigations in terms of selecting a contractor for the city yeah so I don't want I I don't want that company hardship by something that we should have cleaned up in the front end that's all I'm saying understand thank you commissioner for identifying that thank you thank you so moving forward with G how do we want to address this does anybody want to make a motion to approve it with included in that motion recommendation can we make certain that there's no conflict that's what I'm actually asking legal to do prior to us make it that determination yes uh we can make a written request for this employee to be firewalled from any Services provided to the city of blacka so he would have absolutely no contact on any of our projects and I I believe uh if it's a reputable company which I'm sure it is since it went through the vetting process that they would want that as well to avoid an appearance of impropriety yes thank I just be fair going forth in the dealing we don't handicap others from doing business with us yes Madam mayor I move that we um accept this item with the noted requirement yes thank you we have a motion a second have a motion of second I'm going to open the floor up to public comment is anybody here for public com comment on this item saying we close public comment all in favor I any opposition thank you on to regular business do we want a recess no okay we'll keep moving um 8B you want to recess we want to okay it looks like pain like discomfort we'll recess keep it at 10 minutes exactly please thank you I have what about e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e welcome everybody back we're on to item 8 B Direction discussion River Street retaining wall rehabilitation repl placement proposal yes thank you good evening good evening um I was asked by our intering city manager to find some proposals for the retaining wall at River Street so I asked one of our engineering firms to get like some proposal proposals and solutions for this and you have this on your files they came with a proposal for construction plans and the bid package and also preliminary engineering and design survey and all that stuff and they came with a price of 120,000 to do all this and after that also they're going to give us an estimated cost of how much is going to cost to replace that wall or to repair that wall so we're asking for your guidance to see how can we proceed with this this issue that I think has been like a issue before so any questions then that's that lean and wall River Street M um okay go ahead okay so staff usually have recommendations what's staff recommendations okay so um the reason why we brought it up for discussion we thought that 120,000 was a big amount uh but that is the amount in order to just get the engineering done that is not the project cost and the survey and that is why for me personally that seemed to be a big amount before we pursue spending $120,000 for engineering costs and that's not even uh resolving the issue honestly I would like some direction do you want us to proceed well I think if we look at it in terms of liability and if we own that wall that that portion of the property it will cost us more than $120,000 to defend why we did not okay take the engineering cost and repair it or at least looking to um is it sustainable or not this includes the survey as well yes and surveys are very expensive these days and this is multiple properties I'm just just want to bring this up for discussion I don't think we really have many options here that we've got to move forward and resolve this issue because it is obviously a big liability yes so thank you you have any you don't have no callone associated with the to to repair no not on once they finish their job we I can be here again and tell you like what they find are they going to replace the wall or are they going to repair the wall I mean we need to go out to bid for that but before going out to bid we can come here and explain you what what's the final decision thank you okay thank you so I guess we're suggesting you move forward with this part part of the process okay thank you um on to E putam County development Development Authority um per state and statute and County ordinance the mayor appoints Commissioners I have been on it for two years I appointed commissioner Davis and commissioner Campbell and myself I will remain on it I was asked to bring this forward by The Authority because they just hasn't sometimes been able to achieve quarum because other representatives from the city have not been in attendance so it is within my per you to do this and so I have so commissioner Campbell and commissioner Davis welcome thank you and I couldn't discuss it with anybody who was currently appointed as because of sunshine I couldn't for example discuss it with commissioner Jones or commissioner boram that had to be at this kind of venue so here we are how many members on that that board mayor there are three from the city there is the mayor of Crescent City there are three from the County Commission and then there is um the person the president and then the uh chair of the board is actually the um Clerk of Courts so nine people on that board and they can't get K sometimes they can't and sometimes they can um it's it's held the meetings at 8:30 or 9 in the morning and I I know I've not missed a meeting but there have been times when it's been edgy about Quorum um on the edge of quum basically and so it's just a concern that we cut it that close I just tell you right now I'm glad you changed me out because um my job changed and um I know I couldn't make those quum so yeah I appreciate you for putting somebody else on there because I I I I do juggle my schedule quite a bit with with all I have on my plate so thank you I appreciate my sentiments as well uh I'm glad to hand it over the duty to new commissioner Davis absolutely and wish you the best on that that board it might cycle back around to you at some point don't get your hopes I think they will do a wonderful job I have so there we go with that on to F discussion Direction Kelly Smith Road resoning application um and before we go on to that I have to disclose expart communication with Miss Toby so um with that we go forward to the discussion I had a question let me disclose as well I received email and I try to return a call um but we didn't speak so anybody else any disclosures okay okay so this was brought back um you know I meet often with legal and this is uh one of the items that uh we're concerned about and also the um Miss Toby and so forth have come forth uh requesting that this be placed back on the agenda and um I did have a City attorney to uh today I sent out a synopsis to remind everyone about this um situation and it is all about uh property that have been previously um well it's a four parcel four units four lot and uh one has already been constructed it was permitted approved and all of that the other three they are requesting resoning which um we have tabled as a commissioner Board of Commissioners have tabled it and they would like to have a decision uh before we go any further I'm not saying enough I would also like the City attorney just to point out some of the things I did not get Chance say okay uh and hopefully you'll be able to um hear from the applicants as well they're in the audience um I did provide a memorandum for the request of the interm city manager there's been a a little bit of confusion so I provided a map I don't know if you have the print out but um there were initially four Lots there's been some confusion about um the building permit that was issued for the fourth eastern most lot that house was fully constructed it was authorized by the planning board and then again by this city commission it obtained the requisite future land use map Plum changes and resoning it was done by the book completely they got their permit from the county uh I did explain um for the sake of our new commissioner that uh and you may already know this but the building permits are not issued by the city of Paca they are issued Ed by putam County we work very closely with the Putney putam County building department on the issuance of those permits but that is not something that we um have we don't have a building inspector uh to ensure compliance with the Florida building code um but moving on there were questions from a commissioner on um who the planning board members at the time that these votes were taken I provided that um thoroughly not much change from the planning boards that are planning board members that are here now but a few changes um and I'm just trying to there was a question on when did Jonathan Griffith's potential conflict of interest first occur um I provided the definition under Florida Statutes of what defines a conflict of interest which is a situation in which regard for a private interest tends to lead to disregard of a public Duty or interest what I can do in terms of answering that question was um provide the earliest documentation of Jonathan Griffith's involvement with the Kelly Smith Road Lots from what I was able to glean was July of 2022 um did the planning department know of Jonathan Griffith's interest in the Kelly Smith Road Lots yes um it was discussed between Lisa Walsh and Jonathan Griffith and Lisa Walsh also pulled the sunbiz information for the corporate applicant it's a standard procedure for her and the department I I know that Lorenzo does that as well um I became aware of that information um on Jonathan's verbal disclosure to Lisa Walsh because I picked up the phone and called her and asked um and so although a ver verbal disclosure was made he did not provide a written disclosure of his interest in the corporate entity at that time um it wasn't until much later that he did um and then I walked through exactly what a future land use map change is and that it's quasi legislative um and then also what uh rezoning changes and that it's quasi judicial I provided a legal analysis and conclusion and ultimately did have a recommendation and implementation which we have already done my recommendation was that although Financial disclosures um had been made in terms of the state of for a form one that many of us have to sign off on it was determined that additional precautions were needed to prevent this from happening in the future so as a result of this particular matter um immediately recommended that the planning department adopt a disclosure of ownership interest for every applicant seeking a comp plan Amendment and a development order and so I did provide um Mr agimo has extensive experience down in pal me County which has certainly experienced it fair share of conflict of interests over the years and he had uh readily accessible that disclosure um we modified it so it was applicable for the city of Paca and now it has been standard operating practice for the planning department to require that disclosure for every comp plan and development order change um of the applicants so we've already implemented that that's been in in effect since October and additionally uh I did include some of the forms now that the planning department is using when anyone comes up for this type of matter I did attach that and send it as well and so um that's why we brought it up for discussion and direction is there any further questions or discussion I I feel it needs to be added obviously have to give public notice to the next agenda that's my suggestion recommendation that we have to move forward and resolve this I agree may I ask a question proud that um Madam mayor you did disclose that you had conversation do you disclose that conversation or I am not saying this I'm not I'm not asking attorney this question because I oh okay I don't know we have it kind of like had this kind of situation before but is that something that we all have to be privy of since it was disclosed now we know that it was a conversation and we're going to be voting on something right so for for any land use changes where you're acting in a potential quasi judicial manner you do have to um disclose your expar Communications uh that might affect how you vote on a particular matter um you're more than welcome to meet with the applicant or their agents or whomever you want but you need to provide that expar disclosure this agenda item is discussion and direction it's not a quasi judicial hearing today we are simply asking for Direction so an expar disclosure isn't absolutely necessary legally at this stage I believe the mayor made that expar disclosure in an abundance of caution because it may be set for uh an agenda item in the future that's why exactly why I asked that question because the mayor moved to make it an agenda item I made a recommendation I I mean well yeah so that's why I asked that question you actually I just want to get it right I I don't believe the mayor made a motion she but she made a suggestion that's exactly what she just said and and so long as you disclose your expar communication nothing prohibits you from voting on that agenda item now if you have a conflict of interest where you have a pecuniary gain or loss then obviously you need to recuse yourself but that is not the case here so let me ask you this um and this just for educational purposes and my my educational person at this point so if I said I'd had a conversation why disclose it if I'm not disclosing what the conversation was about you you can certainly ask the mayor what the contents of her communication with the applicant were um it is not legally necessary to do that she needs to disclose that she communicated so everyone is aware going into a matter if you have additional follow-up questions I strongly urge that you ask um whoever disclosed and here I am so we actually physically met on Wednesday the 22nd at 1 pm and basically I listened to her concerns and the fact that she stated that they had done everything they had to do and that again Mr Griffith was no longer a part of this project or involved in any way shape or form and that was pretty much it okay okay any conversation about Miss Walsh at that time I'm sorry what any conversation about Miss Walsh Walsh at the time Lisa Walsh not at all just ask secondly um it you referred to it as Kelly Smith Road but when we actually voted on this property it was Krill Avenue and I think the address was 73 7341 Krill Avenue correct so and there's a reason for that um the the parcel extended to to the north there was Krill to the South there was Kelly Smith Road the parcel extended the entire length of of that property and it fronted on Krill originally then they sought to basically um have a lot split and they were basically planning a subdivision and as a result of that the lots that were formed to the South fronted Kelly Smith Road so there was a change when they established those new property identification numbers uh Not only was there an establishment of new property identification numbers but the address changed as well because it was no longer fronting curl right might only want have questions about it nobody have questions okay would you like to come up do you have anything else you'd like to say in terms of this discussion and please give us your name and and city or town of residents for the record uh Toby mcgan uh green Co Springs Florida and I'm here I've reached out to everybody I sent everybody an email just so that way because sometimes a one-on-one is a little bit better to say what what's the concerns you know this is a super confusing way that we did it and I wanted to kind of go from the beginning to the end and I think that's why I made a little timeline for everybody so if there's any concerns I mean just ask me any questions concerns I don't want to take up all the time so nobody else have a question no I have that's why nobody else had one go ahead I do so on this property and I do understand the processes it's not about the processes it's about when we learn that there uh some potential G of an ex employee at the time so um that's what halted and you know your pro your your your progress um and I just want to ask you at this point can I that's so did you at any time think that it might have been a conflict at all the way things were going I mean he's seen that we built about 30 houses here and he had seen that property and he was like came to us and said hey this might be a good opportunity for you and I'd like to partner up with you I didn't see any reason why somebody couldn't invest in their own City you know it didn't occur to me that there were you know that's not my I'm a builder you know I don't work for the city right and I had met with Lisa Josh and I met with Lisa and we talked to her first you know before I even agreed to do anything with Jonathan to make sure that she was on board with what our vision was and get ideas from her and she was one of the ones that suggested you know hey it would be nice to have those ones facing Kelly Smith be residential because I don't want to have a road coming straight through Krill straight to Kelly Smith and have another thing dumping out right there she's like the traffic would be horrendous so we talked about doing a squiggly line and I mean we had many meetings about it before we actually got there and what I kind of got confused is it's it's four lots and and when we bought it up and you were here when we bought it up and I kept saying I see four Lots everybody else said three as if I was saying things and I said no I see four Lots so you guys don't own that fourth lot or didn't own that fourth lot or who owned that fourth lot we owned it so what we did because time is everything is I asked Lisa how long will it take to get a plot done and she's like well it could take three four five months to get through the whole plotting process and I said well how could we at least just get one lot out so we can build a house while we're going through the Platinum you said well do a onetime lot split and then you can build on that one lot we'll get it rezoned and then after that you could work on doing the three lot subdivision so that's how that all came it's just timing so that way we were able to build a house while we were doing the plat and in an effort to get the work done this this is uh yeah because our money sitting in that so the sooner I get a house built and I I truly understand your position on that but and I think it was 102 22 when um on that parcel land it said the application was signed by Jonathan as the agent for the seller because the deed was not yet recorded by from body Title Company the JJ jt1 and we didn't want to miss the deadline for the next scheduled meeting we closed on it 10122 and application was signed on 1012 22 the deed was recorded 1014 22 and all of that was discussed too is like well how do we get it onto the next meeting and she's like well you got to have everything turned in by this date so we were pushing on the title company h get this deed recorded and they were dragging their feet so we said well what if we just act as the agent and get the application moving and Melisa knew who we were and what we were doing what we were trying to accomplish and she was being accommodated you know hey guys you could do it like this to save some time otherwise here's another two weeks till we have to get on to another meeting so so I at that time did you know what position that Mr Griffith held here at the city yeah what position is that he was uh I think he was interim city manager and Miss was worked up under him his Direction okay all right hey a not CAU a LW I just had those questions and to me I saw a conflict and so I wasn't trying to do anything I'm about FL I mean we plan on being here for a while we're going to be in front of you again with another subdivision in a couple weeks so I mean it's we're here to do well with the city well Mr Griffith it involved with your business this one he came any kind of way no this one he came to us that's why we formed a whole different LLC I don't want him to be part of my building business I've been doing this for 20 years so he saw an opportunity and he knew what we were doing here and he said hey this could be a good partnership so we did a joint venture which was solely just for this project that she was earn money yeah okay no F question go ahead when did um Jonathan divest from this project um it was right after everything couple months ago right we had that dat I think in the documentation it says December I think it was December 2024 yeah that was it was in December another question so if if this commission does not approve what you're asking us to approve at this point would you not be able to do any work on the county side of that property I mean that's something I'd have to there's the entire parcel was annexed in into the city into the city but they're asking us so so so the ask right now is to is to to do two things uh a future land use map change for those three maps for those three lots excuse me and then a rezoning currently they are zoned commercial well I should have said commercially did you do anything commercially on that L now that they're ploted into three individual Lots I wouldn't be able to they'd be useless to me as the commission did approve the change in the plotting from what it was previously so it probably should have happened concurrently with the plotting and it should have happened concurrently but it did not did you know why that didn't happen mayor I'm not even sure why that didn't happen to be honest with you I don't know I don't know usually so the the reason was um is because Lisa felt that the plat needed to be done first so you could have uh the property appraiser established property identification numbers for each of the Lots before you proceeded with the um compant Amendment from changes in the rezoning yeah but that hadn't happened because when we we asked when we first shown those property uh those property lines as they were identified they did not have any identification even in 134 if I'm not mistaken U all all of them have their own separate partial ID numbers at at this point at least and if if we can pull that map up again at this point but they didn't it doesn't happen instantaneously um it it does take a little bit of time to for the property appraiser to get that plat they have to check the meets and Bounds make sure that it complies with Forida statute 177 it it's not an instantaneous process but if you pull up on the putham County property appraiser and this is exactly where this GIS map came from even though you can't see it because it's small each of those four Lots on the bottom of that parcel have their own uh parcel identification number now mayor I do have a so I'm going to digress in a different line of questioning and if we can do this I want to separate the um conflict of interests that we have been pursuing from the request to reone the property I guess my question is barring what was discovered in the relationship is this request unusual and does it meet any require meet the requirements to be rezoned as requested that there is nothing about this request that's unusual we actually have two agenda items following that are very similar but I'll let the planning director speak to the issue as well speak to this the application meets all the standards for resoning for the future luse Amendment and the the lot that was created the first lot that was cre for a split lot that went to the city commission it was reson the future L is was changed and then the applicant pursue a building permit and they build a house on it there's nothing unusual about the about this requests and it's been your ongoing recommendation as the planning director that this go forward we have the staff report you know written months ago yes and nothing has changed we still recommend approval thank you um and I just want to go on the record and say that at this point I am um in favor of us moving on to getting this on the agenda um while I recognize the issues surrounding it I believe in order to be fair to the applicant and to be fair to the process and in support of our staff recommendation that we have to decouple the questions and the concerns regarding the perceived and I'm sorry I don't want to use the wrong word not necessarily perceived but the um conflict of interest from a former employer um and possibly What I Hear two former employers who are no longer here that we can not hold captive in this process and discussion the applicant so I am in favor of us moving forward I agree any other questions or discussion about this no I just would like the city man manager on this uh on page four 411 of 439 411 of 439 yes ma'am uhuh to do um to read the third Billet Point fourth and then what started at January 2023 and so help me understand it okay thank you okay you would like me to read the third bullet under July 2022 yes ma'am and and then all the way to points to July yeah January 23d okay so we agreed per this project ownership timeline prepared um are you okay we agreed to form a partnership and created jjjt1 LLC with an effective date of July 27 2022 I'll signed operate an agreement stated that each of us had a 25% ownership State and the purpose of the company was to purchase develop and sell homes on the Krill Avenue project so that's July 2022 January 2023 no ma'am the next bullet the next one okay Jonathan and Julian were investors they agreed to share in the cost of buying the land in developing and funding the bills Josh and I agreed to the same and we all agree to use A&M home buildings LLC to build the homes A&M would charge a contractor fee to build the homes in a pun cell Partners January 2023 January 2023 Josh and I were approached by Jonathan and asked if we could change the or ownership structure of jjjt1 LLC he explained that he and joh Charlie Douglas had an agreement to put all their real estate deals under an LLC nextto real estate and that all terms of our joint final would remain the same we agreed with the terms that Josh and I combine our shares to equal the 50% ownership matching their 50% and next door exate would be considered a limited partner with Josh and I retaining complete control the proper change forms were filed with the annual report on sunit believe commissioner Campbell okay all right so in August 2024 Toby and Josh Alexander Anderson made an offer to nextd Door real estate to purchase their shares of the company all I want to do is have that read in to this record so that we have now discovered Miss to I can't pronounce your last name sorry um is requesting something but so that we talked about this but it's never read out we didn't talk about what happened uh when investigation that the taxpayers paid for so we're almost it would be like a taxpayer sitting out in audience kind of wondering what we're talking about in this scenario and not to have have a penalty on you being the investor uh but there's things that occurred that I think it's our responsibility to ask the questions about it so and an effort to not look like we're on a Witch Hunt is to disclose some things did happened that we were concerned about okay so that's where I am with this I'm not at this point for or against I wanted the facts ma'am and you provided this with the synopsis matter of fact um I almost want to say you did better than uh what we've asked for uh in previous communication to be honest with you the way you ran it down gave him all this months ago yes ma'am and it could and it would have cleared up and could have probably saved us tens of thousands of dollars my attorney's not here tonight because I can't afford much more yeah so I appreciate your thoroughness your cander and your upfrontness so uh with that going back I I don't disagree to bring it back up but I do agree to bring this out into the public and so we would know and there's no we're not concealing anything okay thank you and if I may I would like to mention that what Miss Toby did prepare was a direct request of all us meeting and our City attorney advising or saying like hey our commissioners need to know everything and so that's what we ask you to do and we appreciate that you did it and as you can see the Commissioners appreciated it thank you we did work together I don't want you to think that we didn't thank you thank you okay we're going to go on to public hearings on Direction I thought we did give direction but go ahead reiterate it commissioner Davis yeah the direction is to move forward with bringing this on the agenda for us to consider okay yes ma'am now I understand thank you um public hearings ordinance 20245 establishing The mclary Cove townhouse Community planed unit development Mr gamer mayor Commissioners this is the second reading of the uh request to approve a plan unit development known as M Glory townhouse development uh the only change since the first reading is that we finally got a develop an agreement that is you probably have a copy in front of you and that's the only change and we're asking that that develop an agreement be part of the ordinance as an exhibit number three thank you um do you have anything you to say or add to this conversation yes I did unmute we figured it out okay I've been trying to speak since 9:38 on other subjects but the sake of time we can move forward okay sorry go ahead commissioner Campbell my apologies I don't want to go back in the meeting I've been trying to speak for the last couple of and I've put it in the chat and all of that I've been trying to speak so for the sake of time I like to move forward but I've been trying to speak since the topic of me being appointed to the board my hands been up and all of that and I had to call City Hall three different times we didn't see his up I didn't see his hand up either my apologies I apologize okay please come up thank you hi good evening um shelen this Jacksonville Florida um I really don't have anything else to add except for the development agreement is in front of you now and um we're very pleased that it is in front of you and we are finally here um but I would be Miss remissed if I did not acknowledge the staff and the team that I've been working with this entire time because they have been um incredible and patient is a very big word um because I am a lot sometimes and um we've gotten through it so I just appreciate all of you and your staff so than thank you um I'm going to open the floor up to public comment and we have a card here for Miss Duke Vicky dke Paca Florida um I didn't make a comment the at the last meeting when we had the first reading and I know this is the second reading and I'm sure everything's just going to go right through but I did have a couple of questions because I didn't have any didn't really know any information about the townhouse complex so just out of curiosity I wanted to know you know how many tow houses are going on this property and the estimated amount of money they're going to be asking for each one of these tow houses that's just a curiosity question and the other question though was my concern about are you going to fence a retention Pond I know in so many communities now requiring that to Pro protect children and anybody from drowning in those ponds when you develop something now that it's enclosed and secured to prevent drowning and that was my two questions thank you is anybody able to answer those concerns yeah I can answer some of the question U the number of units is 248 town houses and the impact fee has not been calculated yet that will be calculated at the time of the building permit and then not not there yet it's just approved for for the Pud the flight unit development they're going now through the process of um getting the plot that will take every few months and then after that they're going to issue the bill and burns thank you is there any other retention P what about that f that will be part of the of the the bill and permit when they go through they have to applying of it the fencing yeah that that will be a requirement you know from the billing code they have to I just want to make sure she understood thank you is there anybody else here public com go ahead I just wanted to actually add a little bit to that we will comply with code um there is a slope requirement of four to one that we will build our ponds to um and we will of course we will comply with code what Florida code is right now for building code so thank you I'd be happy to give you my card okay thank you um any other folks here for public comment I got a question one minute well I was closing public comment okay I was trying to close public comment then we couldn't have any question thank you um if there's no one else here closing public comment go ahead Comm um other questions she had as relates to um the estimated cost of the the units I know they might have a range or whatever but can you speak tonight at this time yeah I mean I'll give you the same answer I've given before that because I really don't like to answer that question because Market well you don't well you don't have to no so it's just really hard and I would hate to tell you something and then two years down the road when we were ready to build the first one we hold you to it yall start building immediately immediately as soon as we can all right we just thank you thanks appreciate it commissioner Campbell since I neglected you before do you have any questions information yeah I don't want to say it was you it probably have been something on the system side because I unmuted and was trying to speak out so I don't yeah I didn't see a hand up I really kept looking and I put it in the chat so I don't want to blame it on any of the Commissioners or any anyone but it may just been a mishap on muting on the side of um the computer so but I have okay thank you okay with that said do we have a motion oh oh okay yeah do we have a motion don't fight Okay who wants the motion who wants to second I'll second okay Motion in a second all in favor any opposition thank you all right I have to be first on to ordinance 20246 resoning 110 South State Road 19 res from General commercial C1 to intensive commercial C2 Mr G second this this is a second reading for this resoning uh nothing has changed since the first reading and staff recommend approval okay is there anything you want to contribute Mr pelia not particularly Walt peler 132 Buffalo Bluff Road uh co-owner of the property and be happy to answer any questions that you might have that I can possibly do thank you I don't know that anybody has any questions is there anybody here for public comment same number public comment any questions P here do we have a motion move to approve second have a motion is second all in favor I very much attorney West no you're great I was going to use this as a learning moment on rezonings and quasi judicial hearings but you're all good and it's late do we have any commissioner comments commissioner Campbell congratulations thank you so much what is his child's name Jordan Renee Campbell okay all right all right Jordan conratulations another Jordan yeah but I do want to quickly say thank you to all of those who took part in the MLK festivities this past weekend it was a major success and we look forward to um holding additional um events in the future our keynote speaker was Miss Yolanda Cash Jackson who is our lobbyist for Becca poof she was phenomenal so again thank you to the citizens that showed thank you commissioner Jones yes I have a comment um commission city manager look like she have a metal emergency she's all right uh city manager Madam clerk two things uh could we have the tabs put back on the um yes I've already met with her and I did request it already that'll help I'm sorry a little bit so that's number one number two could we be cognizant of how we stack this agenda this agenda we're going into almost 10 o'clock at night after being here today at four o'clock most of you guys um because we want to be fair with people that take the time out to attend these meetings and have public comments we don't want to rush them we don't want to cut them off and in the effort to hear what they're saying we know we have to get through this agenda packet we need to be careful this is a lot and if there's some things that can be delayed or there's some type of recognition that maybe could wait let's take those consideration because it it really this is this is a long day anybody especially those of us who actually work a full-time job all day then come in here and again again thank you for staying the course I appreciate it you don't have any comp time so sorry man so I just want to make that so please let be talk because we have people that filled our cards that actually left because we didn't get to them and maybe we need think about where we put public comments so just just a food for thoughts thank you yes sir thank you like right after minutes I think we've had that in the past there was a reason why we changed because yeah um they want to hear what we want to say first and they didn't have comments about what we I don't know yeah I mean I'm not opposed to it but I remember that that we did do that we moved it BEC I think it's a public more or less a public request we moved it but I think we have to be mindful of the dialogue that we are having when it comes down to some of the items that are um because I think those are the things because this is quite a short or could have been a short meeting a short right we had longer meetings well we've gotten out before I think the commentary or the load that was put on here was put on here not knowing that it would take the route that it did so I want us to be mindful and considerate of that as well thank you commissioner boram yeah um just want to congratulate um commissioner Campbell on his new uh member to his family and um continue to uh keep keep be fruitful and multiply you're doing a great job um also I want to thank the staff uh for the wonderful job that they always do uh day in and day out helping our city U thank our board for the work that we put in here um every day day in and day out and uh again we want to continue to um provide the necessary service for our citizens public health and safety top of our list and so again we want to continue to thank the staff mean um citizen for coming out and participating with us so thank you Miss Duke and everybody in um cyber land so that's all I have commissioner Davis congratulations commissioner Campbell and Welcome to our new city clerk miss Karen miss wonderful job than yeah great job way to bring anything else do we have a motion to adjourn yes second third hands I'm