Good evening everybody. Welcome to the city of Palaca special call meeting. It is October 20th, 2025. It is 6 p.m. and I am calling this meeting to order. Starting with the invocation led by Pastor Malbury and the pledge of allegiance by Commissioner Davis. Please
stand. Let us pray. Eternal God, our father, we thank you once again for allowing us to come together. We thank you for how good you have been all day long. God, it was you that woke us up. It was you that allowed
us to see this day, a day that we've never seen before. We pray God that you will uh crown our heads with wisdom. We need your help. We need your understanding. We need God directions from you. God, we
can't do anything without you. We recognize that without you, we're nothing. Bless us now even the more I pray in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. Join me in the pledge of allegiance. I
pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and all. >> Roll call, please. Madame clerk
>> present. >> John >> present >> present. Thank you. We have quorum. I'm going to now open the floor to public comments. Is there anybody here for public comments? I do have some
speaker cards and we will start with Miss Kitchens. >> Okay. Um, all of them, Miss Spur. >> Okay, that's the only thing on the agenda. So, okay. Thank you folks. We'll get to that in a minute. Um
the we're on to regular business which is the city manager investigation. Um at this point Miss Miss Clotty did provide a proposal to cure her deficiencies but go ahead commission >> if I may.
>> Go ahead. >> Um madame mayor what I'd like to do is before we get started to level set what we are here to accomplish today. Um, I know we had a lot of discussion at the last meeting and so the purpose the
purpose of the meeting is to for the commission to define the 30-day cure period for Miss Cardi and and I just want to confirm that um define the 30-day cure period
and when what when we define that it will be documented in writing and given to Miss Cardi. And that was what will trigger her 30-day cure period. Is that correct? >> That is not necessarily correct. Maybe
I'm going to turn over to Miss West to kind of >> Before we The reason I'm asking because that was my motion. >> Miss West. >> Second. >> There was no motion. >> She said that was her motion. >> No, that was her motion at the previous meeting. >> Well, you didn't second it, I think,
then. >> Okay. So the relevant section is section 5A and I'm just going to read it so we have knowledge as to what we're talking about. >> The employment >> employment agreement.
>> Yes. Yes. >> I'm referencing Miss Card's >> employment agreement section 5A. >> Yes. The city manager may only be removed as set forth in the city charter as it may be amended from time to time. Prior to taking the vote to terminate as
set forth in the city charter, will first provide the city manager with written notice of the circumstances giving rise to termination as well as a 30-day opportunity to cure the deficiencies to the satisfaction of a majority of the Palaca City Council. Should the deficiencies be considered
unressed and outstanding by the majority of the city council, the city manager shall have the right to request a public hearing before his removal. Um, so the written, and I I mentioned this at the last meeting, the investigative report
that was provided to Miss Cardi constitutes the written notice of the circumstances giving rise to termination. that was the trigger for the 30-day time period which started on October 15th. >> Thank you. And the reason I'm bringing
that up because I explicitly asked that question and was told that the 30 days started when we gave her notice and that that um investigative report was not the
notice. And if I'm mistaken, can we please confirm the minutes? >> I asked that question explicitly because I I asked does it start from today >> and that's what >> Okay, one at a time, please. Um, can we pull Is it possible? Could you please
put up pull up the minutes? >> May I May I May I speak before the minutes get pulled? >> Well, there was a request for us for the >> She's still pulling the minutes. May I speak? >> Yes, please. >> Thank you. >> Um, I recall the same conversation. So
again, that's what we had aligned on from the last meeting. So let's let's stop playing this game of whatever we're doing here. This is this is this this being petty and let's go ahead and get to the business. Our me our reason for
being here today was set the 30 days. is Miss Carter who going to supply her 30-day cure per uh her 30-day cure um prescription and we're here to look at that and move forward with that and set the date from today. >> Sure. I I just if I may um I actually
have my notes from the meeting and read your mo notes. >> May we have the official notes from the official? >> I know because I have my notes too. >> Sure. >> And that's why I want to go to the minute you want them. I would like to know what was my motion for this
meeting? >> A motion. >> Regardless, you can set the 30-day time frame for whenever you want. >> I know. I know. Here's the point why I'm bringing this up. I did not when I left the meeting last week, I felt there was
still some confusion, which is why before we get started, I want to make sure we're all on the same page so we can accomplish what we're here to accomplish. >> You want me to read your motion from from last meeting? >> Yeah. Do you have the notes where I
asked about when the 30 days start? >> Okay. Well, can we go to the the recording? Read your motion. Please read the motion. Please motion. Commissioner Davis moved to restore Miss Cardi to her position as
city manager with the following stipulations. Identify and actively work with an experienced city manager as a coach within the next 30 days. Schedule employee workshops with it with the HR department that will increase morale and employee employer relations. The third
element of it was to continue training toward city manager certification through the IMC. The commission would then call to a special meeting for tonight at 6 p.m. >> That should be ICMA. >> Go ahead, Commissioner Davis.
>> So, thank you for that. Where I'm disagreeing is I specifically asked a question. That question was when when when I saw 5A, the condition in the um employment agreement,
I asked specifically does did not the report constitute notification? And I was told no. We were told no because she only received it
that day and she has she needed enough time to respond and even though she had initial response, it was within an hour of the meeting coming. Thank you. I will go from
>> I I did hear the city attorney say that the um investigative report did serve as notice of the 30 days. I did hear that at the last meeting. Now, we don't have minutes and so it can't be verified to, but I did hear that. But with that, all that said, we want to move on.
>> Can I May I >> go ahead? >> So, so my my issue with that was the fact that Miss Carter had no due process at that time. She was given the report and was not able to know what was pretty
much in that report. She only had one hour. So, how can you give her a 30-day uh uh uh she was already uh into her cure period when she had not had due process. >> Well, I'm not arguing that. I'm just
saying, well, let's move forward and >> No, you're not arguing. I just want you to understand what we're what we're working with here. >> Go ahead, Commissioner Davis. >> Again, my purpose for initiating this conversation is to make sure we are on the same page with what we're here to accomplish.
the conversation. We had a lot of conversation and actually this can be verified because it was recorded. If we have misunderstanding, I spec I know the questions I asked because I wanted to make sure I
understood. I also know the answers I received and the other portion is the conversation was the commission has to write what will happen to Miss Cardi during this 30 make 30-day cure period.
I offered that suggestion at the meeting and that was for because we needed to know what would happen the next day. Did we not have that? Uh that's what hold on I just want to finish. That's what we had to do. We
had to make a decision as to what would happen the day after the meeting whether where would Miss Cardi go? Would she come to work? Would she be on administrator? What does that look like? And then we said we need to write what the cure
process looks like for her. And we asked Miss Cardi to um submit how she would address the allegations or address the how to move forward and provide that information. Her proposal to us does not constitute
the actual cure plan. We get to define the cure plan, the commission. And before mayor, let me please finish. >> No, but you're positioning your it appears as if you were getting ready to speak. Um, so,
so I would like to know is that the understanding of the commission is that we are um creating her care plan tonight so that it could be presented, put in writing because she has to sign her cure plan. She doesn't
sign a and and and if she gets 30 days to do that, she time could not have started. She needs a full 30 days to um work the cap plan. Thanks. >> My and I again we can start 30 days at
any time the majority of this board decides to do so. All council um but my understanding is how can we write the cure plan? she has to be a part of that and she has to draft it and we have to approve it. She's the one that's going to be taking the action. Um, so
>> I respectfully disagree >> and I and so do I. But again, to for the sake of moving forward, let us move forward and if we feel as a majority that we're responsible for developing this career plan, then let's do it. >> So, here we are. And so as we go down
the allegations from the report, I guess we follow that as an outline in terms of the cure. Or do you have a better suggestion, Commissioner B or or Commissioner Davis or Commissioner Jones? >> You say you're going down?
>> Well, I'm just saying in terms of the Yes. So that that when we look at the investigation and we look at the referenced allegations, is that a point of start for the to develop a care plan or do we have another suggestion? That's what I'm asking.
>> Yes, I have another suggestion. >> Go ahead. >> And I also would like to say these miss this statement I mean this document says below our list of actions that will be used to cure the deficiencies listed in the investigative report.
where I'm going to ask for clarification is. One of the things that we said and that came out from the investigation is that there has been obviously some employee abrasion. So I believe we have
we have to address that and determine if the best course of action is what was brought up in the last meeting. The reason I'm taking this approach is this. We all received a report. We all
came to a meeting fast and that was a discussion as well. So we were all speaking off the cuff in the moment based on the time that we had the limited time to review that to come here for discussion in the last called meeting.
For me personally, after listening to our discussion, after considering public comment, after going back and reading the report again, after listening to constituents who had
feedback after that meeting, I went back and finally had time to put all of that on the shelf to look at the three things I mentioned that should be our goals. One is what do we need to stabilize this city and keep it
stabilized. Number two, how can we ensure that our employees are safe? And number three, how can we ensure due process? I do not want us to make rash decisions based on a perceived time constraint
that we're not really bound to because we can determine that. And I think because of the seriousness of what we're doing, we do need to have the ability to look at this information in the additional time that we've had to make
decisions that will allow us to reach those three goals. I do not believe that occurred with where we landed at the last meeting. That's number one. Number The second
point I'd like to make is the commission is the supervisor of the city manager. to that point. Even though Miss Cardi has submitted what she will do to
address those deficiencies, it doesn't mean that that is what will occur during this 30 days necessarily. And that's what I'm really asking. Can we revisit I would like to revisit that
to make sure we define what needs to happen during the cure period. During the last meeting, we identified options. One option was to retain her employment. One action was leave. One possible
action was to terminate employment. And I think we talked about non-paid leave. Those were options. And um again, I did consider that. But
before we get started, I I'd like to just talk about some I mean before we make any decisions and move forward, I'd like to talk about this is a recurring issue. We cannot keep doing the same thing and
expect a different result. So, it's apparent to me again after taking the time to look at where we are to determine there is something systemically not effective. Miss the city manager currently Miss
Cardi is in this position. The commission was in this position a year ago approximately or a little over a year ago. And prior to that there was some um
um contention with that acting city manager. So again after the meeting I took took a step back and said what's best for the city and I think this is a good time for me to just put this perspective out because at the end of the day no matter what
there's a cost to whatever decision we make. And I'm going to be honest. I prayed about this and what I will say is you cannot put old wine in new skins.
And this is what I'm trying to prevent. So, I thought about what would be the cost to the city of Palaca to fire Miss Cardi because we could do that even though she
has the contract term of a cure period. We could also repeat Miss Cardi. So, I looked at those options and those are kind of two extremes and there's a couple of things uh in between, but I looked at financial costs to the
city. I looked at the stability cost for the city and I looked at due process considerations and I looked at the risks associated with both of those options. Miss Cardi is our highest paid employee and while I know some people don't agree
with her salary, that is her salary that we approved. She also gets benefits. She has a six-month severance clause and if employment is terminated,
we will probably likely incur some legal costs. There's also a recruitment of a new city manager which is very expensive time. There's also a cost of onboarding and transition. So from a financial perspective
at a low end about $160,000 on the high end about over $200,000. Stability for the city is a huge cost. We've already fired city managers in short secession
and that's in some instances before completing a year. A third termination under three years would signal and I agree chronic instability of our leadership.
Morale for our employees would decrease even more. the remaining staff would lose um leadership. I'm um trust in our leadership continuity and other employees may start looking
for jobs too. Who who would want to apply to come to a city with a history of firing city managers over and over and over? So even if we got to recruit, that's a huge risk that we would not
fill the position with someone else timely or even with the best candidate. Public confidence is already at an all-time low for this commission. They already distrust this commission. Another firing could erode confidence
even further and making a rash decision could also do it. And we we want to talk about the operational disruption how huge that could be. We have programs and initiatives the city is positioned that
positive change is already happening. We are not perfect but we're moving in the right direction. So if we retain Miss Carter with oversight, we'll probably have some friction. We have some changes we need to make,
but it'll be another blow to our institutional trust for our city. Due process considerations. Miss Carter's employment contract and the city's personnel policies are key in this decision. Allegations have been made in writing.
We have gone out to do the investigation. We have the results. The contract requires a 30-day cure period. The commission did not evaluate our one employee at her 3060 and her upcoming
90-day evaluation because here we are. So from a due process perspective, we have met some of those obligations. The city manager has received the allegations in writing. She's had an opportunity to respond 1 hours
and she has a right to the contractual cure period. And honestly, the commission's failure to do her evaluation really erodess our ability to terminate with cause because we have responsibility, too. Another termination
without clause would also trigger the severance clause in her contract and put the city at potential legal risk. I believe the legally and ethically fair path is that she receives a written notice
and allow the 30-day cure period which is what I was saying I understood from the last meeting which is what we were going to do here create that notice and the expectations because even if we review what she said we give the direction she doesn't give
the direction she's offering how she plans to address it when we give her ction for her 30 days if she's in this office. We did not offer the formal training with full support, actively full
support. I know Miss Cardi went out and did some training, but when we hired her, we put we hired her because I made the motion that we hire knowing that she was not as experienced as we wanted. She had some
experience, but that we were going to support her hiring by allowing her to continue with classes and take training to for her to reach the goal of hopefully becoming a credentialed city
manager. But again, without evaluations, we don't know where she is even in that process. One of our citizens who gave comment at the last meeting, Mr. Sheffield, triggered something in me with his
comment and he said, "We hired," and we did it. I take full responsibility. I'm on the commission. We hired a city manager who was a director with the city moving from a supervisory
role to city manager which is an executive role without proper support to be successful. Now let me be clear I am not excusing the allegations or what happened to employees. I am giving a full
perspective and I'll come back to that in a minute. So be please do not misunderstand my comments that what happened was accept acceptable and yes I believe there should be consequences to that.
So, um, the information I'm giving you, I believe, fulfills our due process for the city manager, accountability for staff and citizens, and protection for the city from
wrongful termination claims. So given the city's pattern of rapid firings, contractual due process obligations, commission's failure to provide scheduled evaluations, and divided commission and community support. I believe the lowest cost, most legally
sound, and most stabilizing path is to honor the 30-day cure period, implement external HR and ethics oversight, which I mentioned briefly, and I'll speak more to that tonight, and provide the coaching and evaluation
structure promised in her hiring. And if after the documented due process, which includes that 30-day cure period, issues persist, the commission will then have both legal justification and public
credibility for a later termination, avoiding another hasty and high cost dismissal. firing Miss Cardi will not correct other items that need to be addressed in the city.
I also believe firing her now in addition to what I've just spoken would not with no changes in our city structure
will not set the most astute city manager up for success in this city. We have an obligation to ensure that whoever comes in is coming in working with support structure
where they can use their skills to make us better. But it's a two-way street. In terms of employees, we've received three written allegations. Two of the allegations were written by
now prior employees. So, they're no longer with the city because they resigned. Again, I'm not dismissing what occurred. That will be addressed. However, there's one employee at this time
who is still employed with the city and in the prior recommendation um what I recommended was for Miss Cardi to um and and you heard the recommendation read previously.
I would like for us to revisit that and I'd like to offer another option again based on what I read for the cure process and I'll introduce that at a later time. So I want to stop
here and hear your thoughts. >> Commissioner Gorum, what are your thoughts? I think um what Commissioner Davis said was well said and and I I picked there's a number of points that she she made that I I would have restated so there's
no sense in me restating some of the already stated >> Jones >> last week we was here on a three-hour meeting and the only thing things different is uh the attorney that conducted the
investigation is supposed to be here with us. >> He's on Zoom. >> We got any questions >> on Zoom? >> And actually, I would like to hear his findings and actually hear it from him.
Um, that's the only thing different be presented here tonight differently instead of us rehapping the whole three hours that we just went over on last week. That would be my suggestion. Good starting point. Uh
take that Miss Davis is well taken. However, anything new would be from this attorney, the investigator >> and I think he would the expectations we ask him specific questions about the investigation or do you want him to give
an overview just for clarification? >> I don't of Okay, >> Mr. Hammer. There he is. >> Uh yes. Yes. Good evening everyone. >> Hi. >> Hi Mr. Hammer. Um one question I have is
you received information on the three uh written allegations. You conducted interviews with those who filed with Miss Cardi, excuse me, and a few other employees.
How did you identify the other employees that you interviewed? I um I conducted um three interviews. Let me back up just a moment. There were
three uh complaints or reports submitted to human resources. I interviewed those three individuals. I also spoke with uh three individuals from public works. After those six interviews were
conducted, uh certain names came up um multiple times and so I wanted to speak to those individuals and all in I believe I spoke with uh Miss Cardi and uh 10 others.
>> Mr. Mr. Hammer. >> Yes. >> How how were the three employees from public works identified to you? >> They um in response to uh a request from their supervisor, they
submitted um they they emailed their supervisor. Those emails were very brief. Um and so the interviews were um those interviews were b were shorter than some other interviews.
>> Um just for a point of clarification, >> you you said the three employees emailed their supervisors. Was that how how did you know that or I mean how I'm still
>> I I received them from uh from Virginia Jones. in HR. >> So, okay, I I'll hold that question for later. For HR, um you also said other individuals names
came up. Are how did they come up? When I was interviewing individuals, uh they would name other employees who have had uh experiences whether positive, negative
or neutral with uh the city manager. When in the report you mentioned that some employees were not comfortable coming forward, were those employees mentioned names from interviews
that you reached out to? >> Uh yes. >> Thank you. >> Do you have any questions? Commissioner Bor, Mr. Hammer >> question at this time. Commissioner
Jones the question basically goes along with Davis is asking to be specific and there's a to me it's a lack of specifics in this report. There's a lot of
there's a lot in it, but not specific. Um, and that's tough for me to follow when it could be just merely communication styles, management styles,
and just personal conflicts. Um, unless I would like to see or can you point out policies that
were violated specific policy? If you were doing this investigation, were you looking for policies that were violated so that you could come to a conclusion that some type of disciplinary action
should happen or occur or some type of violation, whether it's ethical or policy violation. It says that they were infractions,
but I'm missing the specifics. Could you out of your own words >> let us know in in this in this form? >> Well, the the first thing that stood out to me was um creating an environment in which
employees are afraid of retaliation. Um that that in and of itself is a is a concern to me as the investigator. Um federal and state employment laws prohibit retaliation. In particular,
retaliation for engaging in uh protected activity. And a classic example of protected activity is being interviewed in an investigation like this. So >> that's like speculating that it's going
to happen, not that it already occurred. Am I right? >> I'm sorry. >> So you're speculating that that's going to happen, not that it has occurred. >> The the the creation of the environment where people feel that way has already
occurred. Whether somebody has actually been subjected to retaliation is um and and would have a legal claim against the city as a result of it is something I can't answer. But the the environment is there.
So some of the employees you invest you interviewed rather stated that they felt that environment existed here that they were felt they were fear in fear of retaliation if they were interviewed by you or by anybody else. Is that >> Yes, that's correct.
>> People expressed that. >> Yes. >> I'm just >> Okay. Well, you place it out there, but Mr. hammer. But if we have a a retaliation policy in place, uh
>> yeah, he wasn't turning to tell commission. >> I know. I knew that and I just wanted clarification of that, but I know Commissioner Jones wasn't finished. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead. >> Just had to get a word. So, a an effort for this commission
to actually do right by Miss Carter and all that's involved. Miss Cardi immediately identified the deficiencies that she feel that she had,
but there were no specifics ascertained by your investigation that could substantiate from on my end to see where we're really holding her. We're really holding her at
a higher standard, which she should be, but there's nothing that's showing when in your factf finding that actually substantiate what you put in here on some instances. Now, Miss Carter went
ahead and apparently uh agreed that some of these things happened and she put more explanation into it than you presented to us. And that that kind of leave a
gray area to, for example, times and dates when things allegedly occur. And it's hard to say that in a fraction occurred when we don't know what time it happened. You want me to give you an example? >> I I don't know what you I don't know
what you're referring to about something that Miss Cardi submitted. >> He wouldn't have that document. >> I don't Did you? No, I don't. >> We just got that today. We just got that part. >> You actually did that the other day.
Your rebuttal. >> Oh. Oh, the rebuttal. Yes. Yes, the rebuttal. I thought it's on the document gave us that. But he wouldn't have received that, I don't believe. >> Do you want Do you want to do I'm done with my question. Is anything you want to say um a summary of your
investigative finding? >> Are you talking the analysis section? >> No, I I um want to give me >> I I submitted the report and and uh I don't I don't have anything to add to it. I'd be glad to answer any questions you have. Um, but I I I do agree with
you if just a basic point. Um, if if there's a contract that says the city manager is entitled to a cure period or a performance improvement plan period or how whatever label is attached to it, then I would agree that that that
contract should be followed. >> Thank you, sir. Thank you, >> Commissioner Campbell. Do you have any questions of of Mr. Hammer? >> The only question that I have with for him is the
how was the mayor and whoever the other commissioner, how were they brought into the investigation and not the entire commission? >> I wasn't. Go ahead. I >> I'm sorry. I didn't understand the question.
How did you choose to meet with only if we are the delegating body of Miss Cardi? How was it only selected for um the mayor as well as another commissioner and not taking in consideration the entire commission?
>> I'm not I'm not sure I understand. I I called the mayor to let her know I was going to send this uh report over. I didn't want it to arrive unannounced. Other than that, I I don't understand the question. >> I was never interviewed as part of this
investigation. Mr. Hammer, when he completed the investigation, called me to say it was forthcoming. That is the only contact I had with him and I don't believe any other commissioner spoke to him either. So, >> no, I spoke with I spoke with Chief Shaw, but I I didn't and I spoke with
the mayor to let her know that the report was on the way. >> That That was it. I we were told to stay out of it, to not be a part of it, to keep the investigation clean. And that's what I did as well as I believe everybody else on this commission did.
>> Maybe I misread something and I thank you for the clarification. >> You know, I I think I I think I might know what you're referring to. Um there was there was in on page four of my report, I noted um that an employee filed a formal
grievance and that employee said she met with the commission one commissioner and the mayor. Um that that may be where that came from. Um, and by and and just just a more general
point, the reason I put that in there is to make clear that um there was no I didn't receive any information that would tend to suggest that there were a lot of complaints
about the city manager that got to the city commission many months ago. I didn't see anything that suggested anything like that. All of this was prompted by uh written statements being submitted to HR in
early September of this year. >> Thank you for the clarification. >> Thank you. >> Does anybody else have any questions? Mr. Hammer at the moment to you, Commissioner. >> I got clarification on one of the things that you mentioned. I I have
clarification on one of the things that he mentioned about uh maybe meeting with an employee, but this was not during this period. It was during a prior period for the former employee, not this period. So that's I just want to clear
that up. >> Go ahead, Mr. Hammer. >> Yes. >> How are you engaged to do the investigation? Uh, I work at a law firm called Jill Schwarz and Associates in Winter Park.
Uh, my my boss Jill was contacted uh by the city. Um, my my boss Jill uh Schwarz spoke with um individuals from the city. I was not involved at that time. Uh once once the
city signed the representation agreement with our firm uh then I got involved. >> Thank you. >> I don't think anybody else has any further questions at this point. Mr. Hammer, thank you for your time.
>> Thank you. >> Go ahead. >> Um Miss Jones, could you please up to the podium? Thank you. >> Hi, Miss Jones. >> Hi. >> Uh, Miss Jones, how was um that law firm
uh the law firm that we used um how did we engage them? >> Okay, we were given um when it was determined by the commission that we would do use an outside firm. I reached out to legal um to get a list of firms that she may know that did that
investigation and Schwarz law firm I think it's Jill Schwarz Schwarz um law firm was one of the four or five that we received um with a range which was in the budget um of what we were working
with um in contacting and speaking with them they gave the most valuable information as to being able to move forward as did others, but just felt more comfortable with just that one just from speaking to them. And um that was it. >> Thank you. Um one other question. Was
Mr. Hammer provided with the city's u retaliation or non retaliation policy? >> Um he has the um policy and procedure book manual. He did reach out. They wanted that and all of that was uploaded to them. >> Yes.
Another question is when an employee leaves the city >> or um resigns or is terminated and information uh first are do employees receive an exit interview?
>> Yes, employee if they're terminated or they just leave and don't show back. Okay, it's almost kind of impossible. Um, but if they resigned, they are given the opportunity to either meet with HR or I started a process where we would email it to them and they could return
it if they want to. Um, although getting an employee to do an exit is not mandated that they have to complete it. Some do, some don't. Um, but we do reach out to try and get them give them that opportunity. So, if an employee leaves and later
emails or replies um in writing, what happens with that information? >> If they're no longer an employee and they have a concern or something because they're not an employee, it doesn't come
to HR. It would go to the city manager. Um yeah, the city manager or somebody else. Um, and I'll just an example of an ex employee that's no longer an employee. Um, that would be handled differently
than an employee through HR active employees. >> Okay. So, let me ask a ask a different question. Um, I believe you said if you created a new process that if they don't do the exit interview, you're following up with an email to get
>> they get sent out an email. Yeah. >> Correct. If they reply to that and that's from HR, correct? If they reply to that, that's is that considered a written exit interview? >> Yeah, it's it's a form of about um 15 17 questions. Okay.
>> Asking information that they could complete and send back. >> Okay. And what happens with that information? That's the question I'm asking. >> That's just information that I pull in. I I'll look at it and see if there's something and what we do. And I have been tasked with previous city manager,
not Miss Cardi, to say I want to know how many people left or this or kind of but to gear why they were leaving. Um was it for money or was it, you know, more money, a better job, um more responsibility, what um atmosphere,
culture, whatever. Um to kind of outline that information into a summary report. Um not not from the current city manager, but I have been tasked with that. And when you gather that information, is any action taken or recommendations made
for opportunities identified? Well, if this if when that report is presented to whomever asked for it, being city manager would be the one that would ask me um to create. Well, let me
let me make sure cuz I I thought I understood until you just said that. This is the response from the email from HR that you said constitutes an exit interview. >> So in HR, if there are opportunities
identified that could result in perhaps a recommendation to for new policy or procedure or changes. is that >> opportunity to do so and I'll just and
I'll and I guess I can just answer this like that in my employing five years I think I've created more policies um and a lot of them were generated from different things um as it pertains to employees leaving so yeah so they have
yes thank you >> I is it I have a quick question is that information even if they've already exited is that shared with their immediate supervisor as well just again so efforts for improvement if there are things that we could improve on at all.
>> No ma'am I have not. No. >> Okay. Um I I agree with most of what Miss Davis Commissioner Davis had said. Um to clarify, we at least since I've been on this commission and that and there have been a lot of city managers and assistant city managers that have come
and gone, but we only terminated one to this point, not multiple since at least 2023 when I was sworn in to be to be clear. And I agree that we as a commission have failed in terms of the performance appraisal that we committed
to do. I know we postponed it several times because Miss Cotti was a finance director still and people came and went and she went back into that role and was doing the dual role thing and we kept saying okay well wait but with all that said um we we need to do better and so I
do agree totally with that um that process needs to happen. Commission Handle, are you want to say something? >> Yes. I just want to say I heard everything that transpired. Um I think we kicked the ball down the road um with this entire situation within this
meeting. I think that we need to move forth and being that the recommendation was the 30 days to go ahead move forth with 30 days. Um I think the commission needs to write the cure process. Um, I don't think that the employee could cure
um their own self her I don't think that she should cure herself. Um, I think that there should be um some type of um some type of written reprimand with regards to the use of personal
that entire um >> ethics issue >> ethics issue. But I believe that in order to move this meeting along that we don't get hung up on some certain things and that we try to push through with regards to um making this thing happen.
And again I don't believe that she should like her cure. I believe that I appreciate her for providing us what she would do but I think as our employee we determine and I made mention of that in our last meeting.
And with that said, oh, go ahead, Commissioner Davis thing back down. >> Yes, I'm just >> Okay. Um, well, I agree with Commissioner Campbell. So, I have a recommendation for us to consider
um for the 30-day cure period. Um, so before I recommend this, I just want to say that ongoing or potentially future abrasion to the three staff members who submitted written allegations which were taken seriously
is no longer applicable to two of the individuals. And I mentioned that because um, Commissioner Campbell mentioned we can't unring a bell. So, I do want to say that as they have resigned or no longer work for the city, our remaining employee who is still
employed here, um I would like to recommend that we offer a lateral transfer to a position where she must meet qualifications and does not report directly to Miss Cardi. The recommendation below will prevent
any immediate interactions with the city manager and allow for a successful curing period. So, my recommendation for the 30-day cure period is for the city manager to be placed on a 30-day administrative leave with Chief Shaw
serving as an as acting city manager during this period. While on leave during this cure period, Miss Cardi is to be actively engaged in completion of the following trainings: public sector leadership and ethics, employee
relations, implicit bias, time management, act art of delegation, local government 2011 through ICMA, and if required, local government 101 through ICMA. um because one of the requirements for
20 is if you have certain number of years of experience. Um resources for that include um ICMA, the Florida League of Cities and there are online trainings as well with certificates for completion
by UDMI. In addition, Miss Cardi is to review the city of Palaca's policies and state of Florida policies to identify allowable and nonallowable actions and interactions as city manager and engage
an experienced city manager as a coach/mentor. with this recommendation. The postcure eva uh evaluation as commissioner Campbell mentioned during our last meeting is the way we can evaluate is
upon proof of active engagement and or completion of required trainings. The city manager will return to full duty. The interim assistant city manager position will end and Chief Shaw will return to his full duty as police chief.
police chief. The commission will evaluate the city manager's performance 30, 60, and 90 days posture period using the approved evaluation document provided by human resources. The evaluation period will move to annually
thereafter. >> Second motion. >> How was that a motion? >> I move. Okay. >> Second. >> Is there any further discussion? We need to have public comments. >> We have public comments. I'm sorry.
>> I'm sorry, Miss West. What did you >> Yes, I was going to say we do have public comment. So, I was asking further discussion. Miss Kens, Miss Kitchens, Allegra Kitchens, for lack of Florida, I'd like to say that I have been involved and worked with 11 of your city
managers. um Bush, Boon, Folston, Shanahan, Garner, Bell, Holmes, Suggs, Griffin, Cardi, and Simore to name them. Not one of those city managers had 100% liking from the city staff. Mr. Bush was
hated by everybody, but they respected you. They feared him, but they respected him. Uh Mr. Simb, half of them didn't like him. Every city manager, with the exception of Miss Cardi, had at least half the staff disliking him. I am amazed that Miss Cardi only had three complaining out of 185. That's not
enough to be worried about, I don't think. However, I agree with Miss Davis's suggestion. I think you all need to uh follow that to the letter. Miss Cardi does not need to be fired. She is a very good city manager. If you're going to fire a city manager every time an employee gets a fizzle crossed, then
you better put a revolving door on the city manager's office. Because as an employee, a former employee, I can tell you we get fizzles crossed a lot with our bosses. We rarely ever take retaliation against them uh or complain against them for fear of retaliation. I never feared
retaliation, but a lot of people do. Miss M Cardi has been a darn good city manager, and I think everything that's been said from Miss Davis is right, spot on, as well as the rest of you folks. Uh and as far as the interview goes, my opinion is a citizen and a former
commissioner. It was nebulous. It was vague and based basically on gossip. the three original complaints, one of them is the is is the only current employee. The other two aren't there, so it's that doesn't even count in my opinion. Only one current employee accounts. Then you you get other people coming in and go,
"Oh, now Mr. Jones, you have a problem with the city manager." You may say something. Of course, you're being prompted to. I didn't like the interview process. No offense to Mr. Hammer. I'm sure he did exactly what he's hired to do. I didn't like the interview process. I could have done better with one hand tied behind my back and both eyes
closed. You keep Miss McCarti. Do exactly what Commissioner Davis suggested and I think you'll be doing fine. And remember, no city manager is ever liked by the entire staff. In fact, most of them are hated by over half the staff. You have a good lady here. Keep her.
>> No. No applause, please. Thank you. Miss Spur, please give your city a town of residence, too. >> Yes. >> In your name. >> Do I have to push something here? >> We're good. Thanks. Uh, my name is
Jeannie Spur. Um, I live in Palm Coast, Florida. I am a former employee of the city. I was your grant writer and grant administrator from July 28th to September 11th when I was terminated.
Um, I want to call attention. First of all, I want to say that I love the city. I love the work that we do. We've got so many people and I have to tell you the employees here in my opinion are very
remarkable. They love what they do and they love the city and they're all that I've for have seen are trying their very very best to do a good job. Um, so I'm a I'm a certified grant writer and I've been a successful grant administrator
for over 20 years. And that's really why I came here, so I could make a difference. In the short time that I was here, I found an answer to a question that Chief Shaw had asked at multiple meetings about our safe cities grant,
$1.2 million. And I kept being told, just don't worry about it. So and so's got it taken care of. Don't worry, it's okay. Well, um, Miss Cardi asked me, "Why don't you look into it?" I looked into it. The Safe
Cities, the Safest Streets grant had been held by us for I don't recall exactly, it was two to three years, and we had not spent $1 of it. The grant actually expired.
I started July 28th. It expired July 30th when I called to see what could we do. I mean, I had to do a dance and um work with them because we hadn't used a single dollar and they said, "Frankly,
your city is known as not using funds properly." which is something Miss Cardi had told me that we need to be using our grants and our funds. So anyway, I was able to do all the work to save that
grant and that is an important that's an important piece of this. So I'm not here to um to in any way criticize or disrespect Miss Cardi. I am here though to discuss um to really bring attention
to the report page seven um number four disfavoring a sickly employee. I don't know how sickly I appear to you but evidently my direct supervisor said that I was out a lot for health
reasons which was not accurate. To the best of my knowledge, I was out one day with the exception of after I was sent to the emergency department by medics, which is our workers comp place. Um, so I don't see that as sickly.
>> You you run out of your time. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Thank you very much for the opportunity to talk and also just for to let you all know that um that I think the city has a lot going for it too. Thank you, Miss Wise.
>> Good evening. >> It was nine months ago that this commission took on a task of hiring Miss Cardi. You guys said that you would give her the opportunity to grow in the job
with confidence from you guys knowing that she was a seasoned worker for the city of Palaca, had held a position here and did her job quite well in the position she was in. Miss Cardi said,
quote unquote, when she was in term that, I will do the best job I can if you, you know, the confidence that you guys have in her, she would do the best she could in the position. And now we're here 9 months later and
we're in a situation that no one wants to be in. I feel as though the commission needs to give her exactly what Miss Davis stated, an opportunity,
but make sure the opportunity is a growing opportunity of knowledge. I sat home and watched the last meeting and I heard from the
residents comments when it came to Miss Cardi. I found myself talking to the TV as if you could hear me. And I said, you know, that everything they said I agree with. And I felt compelled to be here
today to say that Miss Cardi has done good for this town in the length of time she's been here without the knowledge that she had taken this job. I feel as though this is a learning
experience for not only Miss Cardi, the commission, but also us as residents. that when we invest in something, we need to be wholeheartedly in it. And I feel
with the proper training Miss Cardi will be acquiring under the recommendation of Miss Davis, this city of Palaga will be seen in a glowing
look because the news reporters state a lot about you guys as a commission. I have faith in what you do. We have faith in what you do because you're representing us. We want you to know you have our approval to do the
right thing by Miss Cardi and invest in her so she can be an investment for this city that we live in. I think we as one in the city of Lakewood, not Lakewood, New Jersey, but Palaka, Florida, we could be one of the stellar cities
stating that we stand by what we say and our word is bond. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Brusso. >> My name is Daffany Brusso. I am a former city of Palaca employee and I was the first employee to file a formal grievance against Marcia Cardi. I'm
speaking out for every time Marcia Cardi referred to me as a Catholic witch against my faith. I'm speaking out for the time she barricaded me in her office and refused to let me leave and I asked for a neutral third party to join us. >> Excuse me. I have to talk to the
commission. >> Bruceo, you need to talk to us, not directly to her though, please. I'm speaking out for each time she tried to intimidate me. I'm speaking out for every time she called me difficult because I wouldn't
cower and I wouldn't be bullied by her. And what happened to me is happening to the employees of this city. It's not just my story. It's the story of everybody who works here.
And Marcia Cardi doesn't keep this city running. the department heads do, the employees, the frontline workers who show up every single day for crap pay. Those are the people that keep this city going
and they do it living in fear of retaliation. This is one of the few jobs in Palaca that pays a wage and they know that they can lose that at any second.
What this is is not leadership. This is a regime built on intimidation, manipulation. This is control. And you all have the power to end it. Not after another investigation, not 30 days.
You have the power to end this. So, I'm calling on you to do the right thing and end this for every employee who has suffered under her. >> Thank you.
>> Mary Lawson Brown. I I said I wasn't going to say anything, but um first I want to thank you all for the job that you do. >> You talk about crappy paint. You don't get paid nothing. >> Talk to us, Miss M.
>> I'm sorry. When I got when I got this job, they paid me $420. >> Miss, >> so it's not about the pay. It's about us working together and loving each other. You were saying that um you didn't know, but Mr. Bush when he
got to be city manager, he had been city treasurer and he stepped up. Woody that worked as the supervisor at the city lot was another person we stepped. It is very hard for us to find a city manager. Mr.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. Very hard for us to find a city manager. I interviewed at least five of them. I helped fire some of them because they they needed to go. >> This is this is not the easiest job in the world. The person that city manager
had the pleasing up there plus everybody who worked for me when I left the city. Oh, for those people who don't know it, I stayed on the city a few years. I sat up there and worked to make this city what it is. And I'm here because I'm concerned.
When I left, I asked my my my group, I call them my children, when I left to work together. We're better together. So employees do work. They make the commission look good, their supervisors look good. But that's the guy from the
trash truck to the city manager. And if we are considerate with them and work with them, if you have a problem, there's no problem if you all don't communicate that you cannot work out.
Maybe if you're not in not working out, you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. I beg you all to to not kept just pushing us down the road because every day that you don't have a working city
manager be that far behind with the stuff we could accomplish from it. I'd like to thank you all for way going about making the ID um the arrangements to do something that will work for us. Getting another city manager would have
to come here. You'd have to find somebody. It took months to find some of them. It took years to find somebody to come here to be put in to be a city manager. And we not going to have a whole lot of people. Most city most cities don't
uh keep a city manager very long. We just would lucky. And I want to thank you all for the job you do. And if you work together, you pray together, we can be together. >> Thank you. Is there anybody else here for public comment?
It's being n public comment. We have a motion and a second on the floor. All in favor? >> Call for discussion. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Discussion. >> I've said it previously in our meetings.
You cannot evaluate a person on a performance if they are not here to perform. If Miss Cardi, if the decision is to allow Miss Cardi to work as city manager, she needs to do the work. If
Miss Cardi is going to be in the position, she needs to do the additional work that is required of her. Having her away, and I said it last time, having her having acting city, assistant city manager is a
buffer. It's a buffer that allows us not to truly be able to gauge if behaviors would continue or if behaviors would change. So respectfully,
I would ask if this is the way that we want to go that it be allowing her to operate in the capacity of city manager so that we can see if she's really doing the work. Essentially, I've stated in the addition
in previous meetings that there were some things that came or some recommendations that came as a result of the formal grievances. And to my knowledge, those things have not been achieved.
So, we're piling more on and the other grievance has not been fully rectified. So, as we make this decision, I want us to be mindful that there are some things that we put in place the last time that have not
been achieved. And I specifically asked the question of Miss Cardi in the last meeting. Had those two things or three things essentially been achieved? And I'm going to ask again the previous recommendations that
came as a result of the previous grievance which one was a class on the the recommendation was a class on the workplace environment hostile work environment. Was that
completed? >> So to the best of my >> Yeah. It's was it completed? >> As far as I know yes >> Cardi >> it's a simple yes or no. Okay. I said, >> and I'm talking about in its entirety and completion of staying in the class the entire time. Was it completed? Yes
or no? >> Can I ask you a question? >> No, you can't because I'm asking you one. >> I I would say yes. And the reason why I say yes is the classes were held here. >> I get it. >> The workshops. >> I'm specifically asking were they
accomplished? Because if that's the case, that means the grievance is properly closed. If not, that means those things need to be added onto this or how do we address her not addressing what was supposed to be addressed last time. >> Okay.
>> So, that's why I'm asking you a simple yay or nay if it was completed or not. Yes. >> And I think by completed just again for clarification that you stayed through the whole session that it wasn't you left and came back left and came back. >> I as far as I know I sat here that's my
best memory >> because the classes were here and there were two classes. >> Go ahead, >> Miss Car. I get it. I'm just want I'm it it because again I want it to I want the record to reflect and as we operate in complete transparency that if this is
the way that the commission is going to go who is going to be the persons that hold us accountable. Last time we had a liaison. Yes, we had a liaison of the commission which was the mayor to serve in the capacity to make sure that the other
grievance was supposed to be closed properly. >> So if this is >> I'm I'm I'm speaking in general because as we everyone's saying don't make a hasty decision, don't do this, but these are things that have to be talked about and these are things that we have to face head on. So if this be the will of
the commission, how are we going to hold ourselves accountable to hold her accountable? Because if that it has not been the case. >> Go ahead, Commissioner D. >> Um I agree with you, Commissioner Campbell. I'm sorry my face is probably looking like I'm not, but I agree with
you. Um I I guess I I didn't remember about the lays on. So where I was going is in the question should have been to the mayor if we made her lazison on to see if that work got done. Secondly, this goes back
to my point about the commission. We're not doing what we're supposed to do because we should know that. And hold on, let me just finish. And I'm I'm I hear you. And yes, Miss Carter, you should know whether or not you've completed those requirements. >> Yes.
>> Thirdly, I mean, I don't know. I like to count. But aside from that, um I'm immenable to amending the motion when we get to the point. That's all I I'll just stop there. >> And I want to make specific that I state
again what those courses were. >> One was to be a hostile workplace prevention, preventing discrimination, unlawful harassment, and retaliation. That was the two-hour course. Right.
>> The other one was managing emotions in the workplace >> and communication styles. >> Those were ones that were specifically stated that we as a commission stated that we wanted you to have and HR was to
set those up. So if they have not been completed, which again you were the person that attended, you were the person who sat through the training, you should be able to tell us that and you should have had enough time to gather that information because it was a question that stemmed
at the last meeting we had. So again, if they are not, I make the recommendation that those be put into the recommendation that was presented by Commissioner Davis. And just for clarification, I missed that I was liaison because if I was the liaison, I
would have provided the documentation that it was completed or not. >> Listen, mayor, I >> So I missed that piece. >> Mayor, we identified legal. May you help me with this, please? Did we not identify a liaison to work as a part of working with HR with
regards to the last brief? >> Yeah. My understanding, excuse me, my understanding is the mayor was to serve as the liaison for the grievance of DA. >> Thank you. >> Go ahead. Do you have something, Commissioner B?
>> Okay. I I had got a little bit off track as it related to was because I was thinking that we had set this prior to Miss Cardi getting into place, but like in terms of the grievance that Miss Brusso put in place, I do recall that
you were supposed to be the leazison. So, so I'm catching up now, but I didn't know that Miss Carter was supposed to be >> and I did sit down with Miss Brusso and we did, but I didn't realize that the training aspect that I was supposed to be the follow on. So, that I will take
to bring it back to us. >> I will take responsibility for failing to do that. That's what I was Let me finish my sentence. Thank you. >> And I will gladly do it correctly this time. Go ahead, >> Commissioner. >> Make an amendment. No, I I No, I said I would gladly follow
through properly this time of sign. But Commissioner Jones, >> my question is if there is additional discussion, I want to make sure we consider everything before we uh amend the motion. >> Yeah. Is there any additional
discussion? Commissioner Jones, do you have any you want to say at this point? >> Anybody else? Okay. Before I mend, I'd like to clarify is um what I heard is that if Miss Cart is going to show that
she can cure this, that she needs to be back at work doing the job fully and doing these classes, >> including will if and if these three have not been completed that they will be added to the list. Am I amending properly?
Um, and what I also hear is that we will we no longer need a buffer. She got to come back and do her job and we can release Chief Shaw. Is everyone meaningable? That that's going to be my recommendation. Okay. >> Second. >> So, you >> let me restate it because I want to make
sure we get it right for the minute. >> Very clear. >> So, what was still in question? What was what was still in the question? >> She was going to amend. >> Oh, I was just going to amend the motion.
>> While we're in discussion, um, >> so as as we look at the infractions, we talk about 30 days to cure. Have it been identified that every infection is curable?
That's the question. That's a question that I know and I know that you thoroughly have looked through it and trust your judgment. However, um
I kind of got confused where only three complaints came in. Commissioner Campbell mentioned an additional nine. And even in the rebuttal, there's more than three questions that
were answered. So I I I got a little lost in there. So could you clarify? >> My I'll at least clarify my understanding. So when I only say three, I was mentioning three written allegations, which is what prompted the
investigation. Commissioner Campbell did mention the one prior and what was also addressed u by Miss Cardi was in the investigative report
um Mr. Hammer added the information from other employees um from um >> public works >> public came forth during this >> we did not receive written so that's how I'm establishing it so
um I believe so to answer your question I do believe taking this approach will cure offer the ability to cure and curing is again when I look at it as a whole
while we have the individual and specific allegations I believe with Miss Card's approach in our plan and the 30 days and the evaluation
I believe that is that will provide the the opportunity to cure after 30 days we have to confirm if that is the case in then make another decision after 30 days. Remember, this is just a cure we're talking about. So,
right now, we're approving a 30-day cure period, then to go evaluate and determine if our city manager will continue employment or is recommended for termination based on those results. And that's how I understand it.
Does that answer your question, Commissioner Jones? >> So, I'm going to give you a hypothetical. >> Okay. As you go through the 30 days, we found some curable remedies.
Also through the 30 days, we found some infraction that as Commissioner Campbell speak the bell was rung already and we cannot unring it. What would be the there an action plan for those things? Are we because it's a
little misleading. I don't want to be misleading. Then we come back and it's a whole different So, are we gonna have a holistic approach or we just sectioning out what we are going to deal with? Um
again from my perspective I believe this is a holistic approach for three and I'm going to say three of the four written um three
um are ex employees. So you're right that bail cannot be unrun directly right because they don't work here. However, the bail can be unrung continuing >> those behavior >> this behavior. So that's the and the
other thing is we can't predict what will happen. We can only offer the opportunity for her to do it. So if she doesn't there are consequences to that and if she does there's a benefit for her to remain in employment.
Um, and the other point is in the motion, the one employee who's still here, I believe should be given the opportunity. So that's how I think that process can be cured for her to still be
employed with the city in a lateral position that she's qualified for that does not report directly to Miss Cardi. So that was my attempt at curing at least for the employee because at the end of the day unfortunately
because the you know three of the employees no longer work for the city we there's nothing we can do in this process. They're no longer employees. So, um I believe this is a comprehensive
plan to go forward with what we have opportunity to impact in the city. >> Perfect. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, you're going to >> I amend my motion. I'd like to amend my motion
that let me let me get the words and and I'll submit this in writing as well um since I have it written to the our city clerk. So, the 30-day cure period, the city manager
will return to full duty and attend the following classes. Um, oh, and to be actively engaged in and complete the following classes. It's the classes I listed before the in
the um the six classes possibly seven and if not completed hostile workplace prevention managing emotions in the workplace and
communication styles. Chief Shaw at the acceptance of the cure plan will return to full duty
as um we we will eliminate the acting assistant city manager position upon acceptance of the cure plan. Get everything. Um >> did I miss something? >> And also Oh okay. So you said if he
hasn't completed but then previous >> so then I need to and also for the evaluation um we will need proof of active engagement in and or completion of the required trainings.
Um and the commission will evaluate the manager postcure period using the approved evaluation document provided by human resources that includes evaluation of
the what do you call them? Where did she come? There's a >> artist plan. Oh, to cure the alleg of the allegations. >> Would that still be a modified work week or will it be >> that's Monday through Friday?
>> That's my motion. >> Excuse four duty. Four duty. That'll be duty 100%. >> Yeah. And the just one through Friday >> to clarify in the in the training um would we also have ethics in that if it hasn't been completed?
>> Yes. So in the list I didn't read it again but in my first in my motion I didn't amend that part public sector leadership and ethics. Okay, because that was in this >> May I add >> the re and before I also the reason I
added to be actively engaged in is because one of at least one of these classes is an ongoing training and um so just just saying so some of them should be completed but as long as she's actively engaged I will consider that.
>> Commissioner Campbell >> I'll make a motion for something else after this is concluded. So, is that the full amended motion? >> Yes. >> Okay. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. All in favor?
>> I What you say? >> I >> I Okay. I'm sorry. It's how with the mask. Okay. So, let's do a roll call, please, just to be safe. >> Commissioner, >> yes. >> Jones.
>> Yay. >> Campbell. >> Yes. Commissioner Davis. Yes. >> Yes. Commissioner Campbell. I would like to make a motion that
if the previously requested classes were not fulfilled that a written reprimand be added to the file of the city manager as well as a reprimand for the findings of using employees for personal use be
written and provided as a part of the file of the city manager. >> Second Yeah. >> Any question? >> Question for comment. >> Question. Go ahead. >> Yeah. On my question for that in terms of um from the
response. Now there there's allegations that was said that the city manager asked the employees that those were the allegations. But then the response back from the city manager,
I heard something different that that that wasn't an ask. She she she uh put it in the atmosphere that she needed she needed help with something or or whatever to that effect. So, how do we how do we, you know, deem something to
be true when you got two different conflicting allegations? we got and so who's who are we going to punish uh the city manager for something that she said that was not true because that's what was in the last response in her our
response that she had got the report back. So that's just my point. I mean we I want to we want to make sure that we apply the right um recipe to this whole thing and not add what we want to add to this. And so I want to give her her due
process. She she said it was not the way that she asked for help in that regard. Now the commission can do what it wants, but that's I just throwing it in the atmosphere. >> And to clarify what I stated because I was the one who made the motion and I
believe it would have been directed to me and I'm more than happy to explain whether it was a direct ask. It happened. They went to her house on multiple occasions and performed
work. Whether it was on the clock or after the off of the clock, it was done. She admitted that it was done.
As a result of her admitting, she needs to be reprimanded and it needs to be written in her file that what she did was now acknowledged by the commission and that is not to be taken
place anymore. >> I agree. >> Like you say, allow me to finish. >> And she used to I mean that's basically using your position. and she was in a position of authority over those folks that can't feel comfortable saying no without fear. So that was taking advantage of her role.
>> Right. And I understand that, mayor. But if I could hear if what if if that's the case, then I do agree with that. But if that's not the case, then uh I want to make sure that what I heard from her that rebutted
>> the init the initial allegations. That's my that's my that's my arm resolve. Commissioner Davis, >> my understanding is Miss Cardi said that yes, it did happen. She just wasn't there when they got there. >> The other reason I am in favor and I'm
going to vote in favor of this motion is because Miss Cardi does have to have some consequences to these actions. >> I do believe she should be given opportunity to still work here, but there are items that result in consequences.
>> Right. I agree. I to I mean I totally agree. >> And as her >> immediate supervisors >> immediate supervisors. >> Yes. >> I believe if this was to and I asked specifically the question to HR during the last meeting, how would this be
addressed if it was in fact someone else and not the city manager? That was a part of it. So again, if we are going to do it, I will not feel comfortable unless we document
that these occurrences happen. And then again, it allows us to have grounds for if we need to move one way or another during or after this cure process. So again, my motion is if the previously
requested and I want documentation from those that provided the services that if those were not completed that a reprimmend be written and signed,
provided to and submitted in the personnel file as well as the use of employee employee during whatever time frame that that be a written reprimand because if it was to
happen to another employee, they would have received some form of reprimand and quite frankly, I'm still not happy with it. I wasn't happy with the responses. I wasn't happy with a lot of that that transpired and it needs to be documented even if it needs to come from me
directly. >> I agree. So, we have the motion We have a second. >> Yeah, we have a second. All in favor? >> I. Any opposition? Thank you. >> Go ahead, Commissioner Davis. I I want to make sure we're complete tonight.
>> So, I'm not I um so the other piece I mentioned earlier that we have some systemic item um gaps in in um our structure. And one of the things I'd like to
recommend for human resources is that we have a restructuring of our human resources department. And the recommendation I'm going to make will not cause a disruption, demotion, or result in a different reporting structure for our current human resources generalist manager who is
doing a yman's job with limited resources. Well, what I'd like to recommend is that we hire a talent operations manager, and it doesn't have to be that name, but the function um who will have the following
duties. This manager will serve as an um the HR employee relations specialist um workforce management and that is as a duty not as a position performance reviews, professional development and
mentorship programs and that we in the city adopt um ENPS which is the employee net promoter survey which is a metric that measures how likely an employee is to recommend their employer as a place to work because I believe we need
accountability for overall for all of our um staff. Um and the current HR generalist will continue with her with the duties that she's uh performing
um processes, benefits, payroll, pensions, and I'm sure there are list of other duties that we have to officially document. But in essence, I'm looking to add a manager to the department who can
manage the workforce management performance reviews, all the places. Um, to Miss Mrs. Jones's um defense, and I'm going to call it defense, she is not set up for success either. they cannot run
in a complete HR department that we have at this point with the number of employees we have and the number of and the activity that we have. So um that's a recommendation that I'd like to make.
And uh my second recommendation is that during um that the city manager works with HR to um plan and schedule training for our
city at a minimum for miss uh city manager direct reports training that will support and increase employee morale and um employee employ relations. So, our staff needs training as well. We
don't do that enough. >> Second. >> Oh, >> you made the motion. >> Yeah, you want you have to read. >> So, I wasn't sure what's appropriate because I'm making a recommendation and for um I don't know if I need a motion
for the I'd like to really move this to our next meeting. I just wanted to put it out for now. I really don't want to make a motion. I just want us to think about that. Okay. >> And um consider some gaps we have so that we won't start doing the same thing
and expect a different results with our current structure. >> And we have a currently funded vacant position in HR. Correct. >> Yes, we do. >> Okay. >> We do have a vacancy. >> Yes. So that could be and we can discuss this at the meeting, but that position
could be used or created in that way to make it usable for that >> mayor to ensure that we do not run into anything that could potentially uh come back to haunt us. If there is no
other information to be brought forth with regards to the city manager investigation, I move for a journment. >> Second. >> No, no, no. I I need to get clarification from Miss Cardi. She she has an understanding of when your 30
days are going to start because that does need to be a written notice. I stated at the last meeting that the investigative report constituted that written notice, but it it appears that you disagree. So, she's going to need written notice for you to trigger that.
And who is going to write that? And what is the content of that notice going to be? So, >> okay. >> So, wouldn't you legally tell us? I mean, was the >> I'm looking for guidance because I was of the opinion that the investigative
report did constitute that. >> Before we do that, can I just say so was I. However, my understanding in the meeting is that it was not. That was my question in the meeting. So let we we can disagree but that was my specific
question because I thought that should have been okay >> and I I was told no. So >> at this point um >> we need to develop that date and put it into written notice and is that date is that effective tomorrow as of tomorrow? How you going to have it tomorrow if you don't have it?
>> Why not? So that I'm just starting the discussion so people can write. So >> So when does this take effect? >> First of all, you have to have the writing, >> right? >> So you can have the investigative report be the writing. When would you like that
time period to start? >> When would the clockity when does the clock start? I I don't want the clock to start ticking until we write what we said here today. So there is no miscommunication. >> Correct. >> Miss Cardi needs to receive and so does
HR needs a copy of this too because they're impacted in the motion. Um we approved for the employee who still works here to have an opportunity to >> to have a lateral move >> to >> have a lateral move and not work
directly under Miss Cardi. So, um, we do need everything we said here and approved tonight to be written. I think we need to put eyes on it, make sure we're all on the same page that it is correct and complete and um, who would
sign that? Mayor. >> Yes. So, we will be drafting it tomorrow. Okay. >> For review by the full commission. >> HR will get it to every commissioner. Okay. And so we can draft that tomorrow to take effect
by next week to keep things in play the way they are for the rest of the week. So that lateral move can happen. That's going to take What is the thought of everybody here? >> I think y'all keep pushing stuff. That's what I honestly think >> that I'm sorry. What >> y'all keep kicking the can down the road?
>> What What would What What should we do, Commissioner Campbell? If it's written tomorrow and it's disseminated >> yes >> agreed >> like we are it's come on >> okay so it would if everything goes as
it should tomorrow then it takes effect on Wednesday >> yes >> okay I think to clarify >> and so who's taking the lead on writing it >> I will take the lead on it with HR or do you want to do it m I will take the lead with HR we will go over the notes
Unless you prefer to do that. >> No, I don't. But what I would like is it to be written by either uh >> shouldn't legal be part of >> I don't know. >> Should legal be part of it? >> Yeah. The city attorney or um HR?
>> That is again >> we stated and I stated that that's not their job. That's our job. It's our job to draft. >> It's our job and I made that clear as I will write it >> that we should not put staff in saying I
will write it. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's still got to be written >> whenever we have done this before. It's been written while it's not for this specific item, but I will write it. I will have it to you tomorrow. Who am I sending it to? >> So that she >> I'll send it to Miss Jones tomorrow.
>> Send emails. Is there any further discussion? Anything else, Miss West? We have a motion to adjourn. Second. >> Okay. Thank you.