Are there anybody here? Okay. Okay. >> I'm just introducing to I'm introducing her to you. I'm saying good stuff. It's okay. >> I'm lying and saying >> I'm sorry. I didn't know anybody but Patty. >> Your fault, Maddie.
always. All right, ladies, gentlemen, let's go ahead and call to order the Historic Preservation Board meeting for September 4th, 2025. The invocation will be led by Miss Pierce, followed by the pledge of
allegiance led by Mr. Jefferson. >> Please stand. >> Dear heavenly father, please guide us with wisdom and unity as we come together to make decisions that benefit our community and bring us together as
one. Ask all these things in Jesus Christ's name. Amen. >> Amen. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Please be seated. >> Madame city clerk, if we could have the roll call, please. As Mrs. As Miss Hayes gets ready, Mr. Jefferson, would you like to join us up
front? I do not see Mr. Hollister in presence. >> I apologize, Madam Chair. We have brought in some pictures that you're now getting handed to um that you're now getting some. So, I want to make sure that I was able to pull it up
on the screen. So, I had to ask >> for somebody to scan them in so I can see if I can't pull them up on screen when they're when it's when it's >> understood. Uh roll. >> Um >> Mary Jane Rosa >> present.
>> Christopher Hollister. >> Timothy Jefferson >> present. >> Petty vote >> present. Megan Beville >> present. >> Brianna Pierce >> present. Elizabeth Brunsburg >> present. >> Thank you. We do indeed have a quorum.
Will Miss Rosa be joining us? >> Will Miss Rosa be joining us as an alternate member? It's good to see you again, Miss Rosa. >> Let's move on to our meeting purpose disclosure. The purpose of the historic preservation board is to stewart the architecture of properties in our city's
historic districts by applying the guidelines of the secretary of the of the interiors standards for historic preservation. Moving on, the appeals procedure and exparte communication. We'll start with the pro appeals procedure. Any person wishing to appeal
any decision made by the historic preservation board with respect to any matter considered at such meeting will need a record of the pro proceedings and for such purpose may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made at the applicant's expense. Which record includes the testimony and
evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. Florida statute 286.10 105 exp parte communication ladies and gentlemen. >> No. >> Okay. Um I do have a bit I don't believe any of this really falls squarely under
the exparte communications rule. Um but just to make it known the applicant, Miss Tabore and I are friends and she is also a member of the women's club of Palaca. Um, this is indeed an after-the-act COA,
which I believe everyone knows I feel super strongly about, but she asked me as a friend if I could guide her in the proper channels moving ahead to get her where she needed to be on this project. Um, I introduced her to city staff. There were meetings that came as a result and I also notorized her
certificate of appropriateness paperwork. However, I do not charge for my notary services. So therefore, I did not gain in any way financially, nor do I intend to paint the house, work for the paint company, and I did not invent roller naps. So I feel like I'm pretty
much in the clear here, but I did just want to make that known. Thank you very much. All right, let's move on to the approval of minutes of the August 7th, 2025 meeting. Has everyone had a chance to review those minutes? If so, I'm looking
for a motion to approve. >> I'll make the motion to approve. Thank you, Miss Pierce. And a second. >> Second. >> Thank you, Miss Vote. All in favor say I. And opposed. Our August 7th meeting minutes are approved. Moving on to item three on our agenda, public comments.
Now, these are public comments not related to agenda items. Let's go ahead and open up the floor to public comments. I'm sorry, ma'am. >> Jenny, if I didn't >> Yes, ma'am. I I suspected. Okay. So when that time comes, I will open up a
separate public comment section and that would be when you would speak. >> Good point, Anthony. >> Yes, ma'am. I'd be happy to. Um, seeing no general public comments, let's go ahead and close those down. So, let's move on to new business. Item four on our agenda. This is HPB2509,
510 EMTT Street, parcel number 42-10-276850440071. The applicant and owner is M. Judy Tabour, I believe we'll hear from city staff first. Take us away, madam. >> Good afternoon, everybody. The request is to obtain an after
the-act certificate of appropriateness for the painting of the exterior of the structure on this property following a notice of violation issued by the city. The property is located at 510 EMTT Street in the South Historic District.
The applicant is Miss Judy Taber. The painting consists of the body, trim, accents, and door. The specific color samples used on the structure are included in the staff report. Also, photographs illustrate where the colors
were used in painting the structure. The house is a Victorian Gothic residence built between 1884 and 1886. The Florida master site file is included in the agenda. The applicant is here if you have further questions.
questions. >> When an applicant in our historic districts proposes to paint their house, where can they go to find an appropriate color palette for set? >> We do not have a historic color palette here in the city of Palaca. So would
they then be directed to use a quote historic color >> in other words >> without a palette? I I don't know how to answer that question. >> The Department of Interior does have a color palette that we have relied on in
the past and is fairly extensive. But as far as the city of Pala is concerned, there is nowhere that we can send an applicant wanting to do what I would consider maintenance on their own as a place to find out what is an appropriate color.
>> No, that's that's not true. We do follow the Department of Interior historical guidelines and there are there is a color palette associated with the DOI historical guidelines. >> And was this particular applicant referred to that palette? >> I don't know. No, I I was not aware of
it. >> I believe I'm being a little bit preliminary, but I'm not being preliminary in that I'd like to share something. Um, back in 2006, 2007, I moved to the North Historic District.
Now, I'm a St. Augustine girl, and I know that if you have a red door and you want a paint of bread again, you have to ask for permission. So I came down to the city of Gala all those years ago and I said I'd like to get my house. Can you give me some guidelines? And they said, "Well, we don't really have any 18 years
ago they can have it." And I was told at that time that what I needed to do was go to one of the paint suppliers and find a quote HC color historic colors. And I said, "But wait a minute, historic colors a lot of times don't
differentiate interior and exterior. Therefore, number one, what might be appropriate in Key West or Charleston might not as clearly be appropriate here in Blacka. And number two, a lot of times they don't really differentiate between interior and exterior. So, I might be
painting my exterior of my colonial home an interior bar purple Victorian for your color and that would be okay. And what I was told at that point was, yeah, we really don't have anything to tell you. Just try to use the best, you know, your best discretion.
I feel like without having something definitive to direct the applicant to, we're basically playing a giant game of go fish. Is this color good? Nah, I don't like that color. Well, wait. Who are you to
not like that color? Well, you know, I just I don't like it. I I I feel like what we need to do as a city truly is to take a step back and come up with what is or is not appropriate based on our city
and what we feel the characteristics of our city paint should be as opposed to telling an applicant to just go fish. I would have to >> Well, let me just say we didn't tell the application
for painting a house without without the permit. So, code enforcement issue of the notice violation. She came to with you. She came to to the city to the planning department and we gave an application after the fact. That was it.
You know, we never told her you need to paint this color or or not. It was just giving an application to her. So, >> yeah. >> Okay. >> I I would like to say something. I've been in the historic districts for going
on 30 years now. And when I came and was here, um Sherwin Williams, for lack of anybody else in town, um not because it's Sher Williams, they have a exterior historic color chart. It's not all the
colors, but it's a lot of the colors. And it also depends on um like this was part of that workshop that I mentioned. I've done some work and I'll talk talk to about it later, but um
this helps the staff to a certain degree. That particular color is a historic color uh with um Sherwin Williams under the historic colors.
Okay. It's called pink flamingo which is what you said because I I went to check on on that and to see if the staff has any of this and but this was all going to be like for us to talk about the workshop later and maybe you know getting more tight and all of that. Yes,
the color chips are in the >> staff. I was referred to these things years ago and and the staff here used these things and the historic board used these things years ago. So, I just picked up a few and we'll talk about it
later, but >> yes, I do have that Sherwin Williams. >> Yes, because we had nothing else. And it also each home is different. So there's even historic colors for 1950s,4s,30s, Victorians, 1800s that are the proper colors for that period of time, like
they do in Charleston. I've done a whole thing up on Charleston, too. Um, and the way that they do things that might could help. Um, I I don't want to I know we can't reach that bar, but we could work towards >> we we could certainly try for something other than nearly
>> absolute ambiguity, I think. So there anything else to taking anything? So you know again illustrating the point. I mean we we might not like this. >> Yes. >> Um but there's nothing about it that doesn't meet the bar at the moment apart
from the fact that it was an after the the fact COA which >> once again I'm the first one to be irritated about. >> Um do we have any other questions for >> Madam Chair? I just want to make sure for the record to say that it the on
notice of violation was not because of the color. >> That is not the notice of violation is for not getting the proper permit for painting the house in the story district. >> Yes. >> So that has to be very clear. >> Yes.
>> We never pass judgment on the caller. >> Uh and I'm I'm sorry. I don't mean to shake my head, but Miss Miss Table, we will get to you. I I promise. I promise. Um, >> so that's why we brought it to the board. >> Yeah. >> So, so what we are doing at this point is is literally nothing about the color
because we really can't do anything about the color because at this point, even though we might not like it, it's permissible. What what we're actually here in charge of is so you painted your house and we wish you would come to us first and you have indeed paid the extra money for your over- the-counter after
the fact COA. So now we're going to move along and hopefully we're going to come to a conclusion on what might be appropriate in the near future. >> I had no plans on that. I don't know any anything about this is just to issue her certificate of appropriateness. That's
it. >> So understanding color is off the the the dry erase board on what color the house was painted has been erased. It's just >> it's really it's really up to the board, you know, to make it a decision whether to grant the after the fact certificate or not.
>> Well, and just to play, >> I don't think that we've ever not approve. Well, no, I take that back. Um, there was a property over on Oak Street that we did not approve. >> Um, all right. I'm going to be quiet for now and allow the other board members to speak. Sorry. I apologize. 18 years
later, I still can't believe we don't have something in place for this. Miss Vote or Miss Pavil or Mr. Jefferson or Miss Okay, I think uh Miss Pierce got to go first. >> Thank you.
>> So, my sorry. So, um I guess to try to understand what we're coming here for, just like Miss um Elizabeth said, we're only here just to vote on if they can have a permit to paint or not. >> That's correct.
>> So, why are we not doing the colors? Because aren't we supposed to also vote on colors? I mean, is it >> Well, the color is right in front of you. I mean, it's it's a judgment of the board. No, that typically the paint colors are an
over-thec counter permit or I'm sorry, an overthe-c counter COA. Correct. >> It depends sometimes. Yes, >> but we are not here about that today. Correct. >> You're here about again there is an after the fact application for a
certificate of appropriateness for a paint of a house and historic district. is your decision whether to grant that request or not. Just playing devil's advocate to make sure that that my board members
understand if we were to not approve an after the fact COA what would happen is not being compliance we'll proceed with the process it will probably give another time you know to
comply with getting the certificate and if not take it to the state and the will make a decision I I I tr >> your question >> and I truly think >> I I again I not not to sound like a
broken record here but I I I truly think giving the information we need to the applicant whether it's in the first place or anyway I I feel like we need to work on this as a historical board. Uh Miss Bville did you have something to add or question?
>> Although I understand that she didn't get the permit ahead of time. I have one question. Who on the city who at the city planning and building if she had to approve the colors, who would that be? If there's not an actual color palette, >> it would be the certificate of
appropriateness application. Uh it would have the colors and then the director would assign the file to a planner and then the planner and director decide if it's a like for like and then it's the $50 COA for painting your house or
what. So, it's subjective to city staff. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Miss Rosa, >> thank you. >> My experience with historical colors comes from buildings in the French
Quarter, which compared to most places in the United States is incredibly strict. I think we do a great disservice to the people of the community when we don't actually have colors that
we can offer them before they get into the quagmire of what can I have and what can I not have. I mean, we've we've made some steps in having a pamphlet for the people who buy homes here so that they know what it is. Unfortunately, I find
that real estate agents aren't handing them out. They have two homes adjacent to mine in the north district. These people know nothing about what they can and cannot do or what they have to do. So I think we need to get our heads around. Uh not only is it true
Williams, but it's also Benjamin Moore has a complete line of historic colors. I think we as a group need to get together and formulate what the color should be. And as said, if your house
was built in the 1930s, this is your pallet. If your house was built in the 1880s, this is your pallet. >> It's not that hard, but I think we're not being fair if we're not saying to them, "These are your choices." Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Mr. Jefferson, did you
have something to add at this time? >> I'm not quite sure what these are. >> Well, we will get to that. Okay. >> Do we have any more questions for city staff? >> All right. Let's go ahead and hear from the applicant, Miss Taber, if you would please. >> And I totally forgot what my point was
earlier. So, there's that. >> You could just introduce yourself. And >> Hi, I'm Judy Taber. I go by Grace, though. And whenever I selected this color, one, I think it's beautiful, but you know, everyone has an opinion and that's fine. I looked up historical
homes and I saw colors like what I've printed out and those are horrible pictures. I literally took my phone because I couldn't get my thing to print. I suck at being savvy, technos savvy at least. So, and then I went and I tried to pick a paint color that was
as close to that as I could find. And the pink flamingo was the one. And actually on the house it's a lot less severe than on that paint swipe or that little swatch that you have. And the house isn't trimmed out. I feel that once it's trimmed out, it'll mellow it
down even more. And also the Florida sun will fade it in no time. There's that. And as far as the certificate of appropriateness, I apologize that I did not do that. I I hired a professional to do it or to do my house and I thought
that he was taking care of all of that, which he was not. and he's no longer taking care of the house either. So, and again, I apologize for not doing it beforehand, but also I just heard you say it was $50 to purchase it
beforehand. I believe I paid 500. Was that it? Or am I crazy? I could be totally crazy. There's that as well. And that's all I've got to say. I mean, I I feel that, you know, these stall homes are called painted ladies. And there are other homes in the neighborhood that
have colors that maybe I don't love, but there they are. And that it's Rainbow Row, Charleston, for instance. And I know we're not in Charleston, but I was also told to go look at houses in St. Augustine. Well, I don't live in St. Augustine. Why am I picking from a St. Augustine color palette? Um, I guess
that's it. That's all I have to say. And I didn't mean to be offensive or to go against any of the guidelines. I know ignorance is not an excuse, but I'm willing to make as, you know, as far as a certificate of appropriateness that
what I need to do to obtain that, but my funds have ran out to paint the house. So, there you go. That's it. Does anyone have any questions? >> Uh, just just to reiterate, uh, yes, you're after the the fax COA was $56. We
have the paperwork in our packet. >> That's 10 times what you were charged before. and I've happily paid that. I I realize that I've made an error and again I apologize for that. That's all I can say. >> Thank you, Miss Tabort. Ladies,
gentlemen, do we have questions for Miss Tabor at this point? >> Hi. I don't have I don't have any questions for you. Um and um I I appreciate your apology for that not doing that. Um, I think that's a a
situation that we're dealing with and we're hopefully going to be able to correct that and and people need to take more concern about the fact that they live in a historic district and what it
means to live in a historic district and what it means to have a historic home. Um because the way our historic districts look for me aesthetically is if you took the signs away to me you would not know that it's a historic
district. And that goes with the uh pride of ownership, the the care of the homes, um just everything in general. I want them to be better for all of us, for everybody, for
people visiting, for the children that live in Palaca, so that it they see beautiful things and they they get exposed to those things, which changes their lives. Um, when I look out my window, I want to see something
beautiful, you know? I mean, this makes me feel good. And and when I see pride of ownership with people and caring about our historic districts and our neighborhoods and all that, that means something and says something about
Palaca. And when you move in one of these places, there are should be there should be guidelines and so on and so forth. And if that's not the kind of lifestyle that you want, then you would like go to other neighborhoods that
don't have those guidelines. So, um, I'm I don't know how I end this, but I just wanted to share that with you. >> I'm going to add one thing to what you just said. The reason why I started with the painting, yes, I realized the original code, which was years and years
a violation or whatever the thing. I'm so not good at this, y'all. I'm faking it. But in any case, um, was for rotted wood and whatnot. and I just there's a vacant lot next to me which is sold and they're supposed to build within 3 years and that's coming up close. So, I wanted
to paint the house and get everything fixed before they start building on that because I I I believe in property values and I I want them to sell this house whenever they build it for as much as they can. I want to, you know, I was ashamed of the way the house was
looking and my goal is to make it look better. Certainly not make it look worse and certainly not do anything that, you know, again, anyone would find offensive or isn't by the guidelines. And I I I truly apologize. I mean, I didn't mean to I feel like I started a
bunch of stuff. I didn't want y'all to come here on an afternoon, you know, and over me. >> Well, Miss Miss Neighbor, this is our regularly scheduled meeting. Sorry. No, >> this this is what we do on the first Thursday at 4:00. So, please do not feel bad and please do not apologize. We
>> exactly >> compared to some applicants with after the the fax coas you've just thrown yourself on the ground of beg for mercy >> and >> well I my knee I already felt >> and and maybe now as a neighbor too or new people that come in or whatever you can share all the information that
you're learning through this process for them so that they don't pay $56 as opposed to 50. Well, I I I I assess the penalty and I you know and I understand that I and Right. And I >> and I agree totally with what you say. I
wish I like seeing pretty things, too. >> Yes. >> And it makes me feel at home and it whenever you come into your driveway and if you're surround Whoopsie, you have beautiful surroundings, you know, you kind of >> I'm home and everything's okay. >> And that was my goal whenever I started working with this. But again, my painter
has is no longer and now I'm I've invested all my money in him and I'll run out of fun. So that's fun. But I'll get it done. I mean, it may be a few more months, but I will get it finished. And there windows that need to be replaced. There's all kinds of stuff that needs help with this home. So, >> but it's a start
>> and finishing is important. >> It is. It is. And these windows Yeah. And the windows, they had the stained glass and that's, you know, I just >> And apologies. I don't mean to cut you off, Mr. Table. I don't think we hear about the windows. >> Oh, well, no, no, you're you're fine. Uh, Miss Pierce, did you have a question or
>> I had a question. I had a question, but I think she answered it at the end. You said that you've run out of the funds to paint the house, but you plan to finish the >> I will. I absolutely will. It's just I I can't do it in the next 30 days or probably in the honestly in the next
four months. Um, it'll be the first of the year before I start tackling it again because I've I've ran out of money. It is what it is. Um, this guy, this was $18,000 and he's still not finished with it. And >> he I'm not trying to badmouth anyone,
but I'm not lying either. I'm not, you know, so >> that's what I was I was looking at the pictures and you said it hadn't been trimmed out yet. And and in fact, I mean, the pictures show that there is overspray on the trim. >> Yeah. There. >> So, yeah, there you That's where we left it because he decided he was on charge
me. I had my original um estimate from him and also it was payable upon completion but he decided that he was charging me per window and per trim and I I I couldn't at this point. I mean I kept handing him money money and then
now it was more money and I finally I I was tapped out. I'm like I'm done and I can't. So but it will be finished. If I have to get a friend who's not afraid of heights to go up there and paint the trim, we'll get it done. But it just again it won't and he also took all the paint with me
so it it it Yeah. But anyway, it doesn't matter. Yes, I'm a little bitter. But um anyway, it will be done because I don't like things I don't like things looking like that. I was ashamed again. I was ashamed of the house when it was green. It had all this rotted wood on it and the paint was flaking. It looked like crap and I I wanted to, you know, fix it
and make it pretty and >> I had this whole thing want to do up front. But anyway, it it'll come to pass. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Taber. Um, let's go ahead and open up to public comments. >> She said, she said, >> uh, Miss Miss Ree, if you would come on
up and um, just let us know your city of residence and your full name. >> This is my neighbor. >> I am not. I'm her worst enemy. >> My name is Marton Ree. I live at 516 N
Street. Her neighbor. And I get to look out every morning, the sun hitting that over there. And that I It's not that I like the color, it's just that it is beautiful. And it looks great now that she's got it
painted. I watched that guy over there doing his painting and I just, oh my god, this is going to be so pretty. I saw the first one. I'm going, "Oh, I don't you be teasing me, Judy. That better be the color." And it is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. When it was green,
it was hideous. Mr. Cooper owned it back in the 50s. It was red. Of course, that's my favorite color. But I don't think y'all like red. And Patty, on this historical you're talking about, you still have your
bricks. We don't. All we've got is a black top. >> Yes, I know. >> That's all I got to say about I love the house. >> Well, thank you, M. Thank you for coming down to do this. >> Yes. Well, we we have not made that decision yet, but Miss Kitchens, if you would.
>> Allegra Kitchens, Palaca, Florida. And I have some history on the house, as you might expect, but I'd like to make two comments. First of all, the real estate salespeople should tell people they're living in the historic district. That's called called disclosure. >> If they don't disclose that, you have
legal recourse. Uh the second thing is if there's no color palette, how can the staff have a a color palette and suggest what color you use? Okay, I'm very familiar with this house. It belonged to my great uncle Loper Bailey. Uh George Loper Bailey. He had the gas utilities
in Palaca. The uh he had the gas, the lights, and the telephones in the 1800s. Uh I'd understood from the family that he built the house for his wife, Rosen. Regardless, they lived in it. She loved the house to utter distraction. So much so that she kicked him out and lived in it by herself.
>> She had reason, but I won't go into that. Uh her daughter Serena was a librarian and a teacher, and Sabrina, Serena, pardon me, lived in the house with her mother until her mother died. And then Serena went down to South Florida. Uh in the meantime, when Serena was a little girl, some of y'all know
the Walton family, Bill Townsen, the Walton family, Miss Susie Walton. Uh she and Serena Bailey were children at the time. And Miss Susie told me that Serena on the landing of the stairs, the sec the landing, it's a huge landing. I actually saw the house a few years ago.
There was a playhouse there, a full-size dollhouse that Miss Susie and Serena would go inside and play and it had furniture. And I've always been fascinated by that. >> Landing. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah. The landing is about as big as this area right here because when I heard the story, I thought, how could it
be a big playhouse that the children go? But then I saw the landing a few years ago and June Thompson owned it. Uh, I remember the house as being white. When I saw it barn red, I I was a guest, but it it was okay. I figured s the rose probably she haunts the house actually, but I figured she was turning over at
her grave. Uh, and then when I saw it green that I didn't have no problem with that. I drove past the other day and I saw this call. Well, that's pretty because the green looked bad. So, I have no problem with the color and it's a but I'm very familiar with the house through the family uh the family connection. So, I just wanted to give you that
information and it's a wonderful old house and I'm glad that Miss Tabor's got it and fixing it up. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Kitchens. If you would please um take your comment card. Thank you to Miss Hayes. All right. Anyone else for public comment? If not, let's
go ahead and close that down. Um, ladies, gentlemen, I mean, I I am certainly not one to move a motion forward, but it does seem to me that we have bigger fish to fry than punishing a a homeowner for simply
trying to maintain her home via paint to the best of her abilities, following the rules that she was given. >> I'd like to make a motion, >> that that we approve this application as is. >> All right, we have a motion to approve. Do we have a second?
I'll second. >> Thank you, Miss Pavil. We have a motion and a second. Uh, all in favor, please say I. I. And opposed. All right. Motion passes unanimously. Thank you very much, Miss Tabore. Um, I I don't believe I can
say on behalf of the city of Palaca, but I believe I can say on behalf of the historical board, I feel like we're in a position where we would like to really do better and we will get the ball rolling on that. So, have a wonderful day. All right. As far as other business is
concerned, this might be the time for someone to say that we'd like to get together ASAP to talk about paint colors. >> Yes, I would. All right. Well, >> yes. I I would like if I have to make a motion or whatever it is that we move forward in getting an established
paint palette together for each I guess air and have it um properly labeled for exterior >> trim um decorative pieces because I know a lot of uh we do have a lot of Victorian
homes here in Palaca. It needs to be exact to where the paint needs to go because I have to speak same with Miss Elizabeth and Miss Patty. I own I have owned two historical homes in Palaca. One on Kirby and when I went to get
paint samples for that, same thing as them. Come down here. You'll have to go to the local paint store, get a paint palette. When you look at it, it's for America. It's not for southern homes.
And again, like Miss Elizabeth said, we don't live in Key West. We don't have those colorful colors here. >> We are a southern town. We are not Charleston. We are not Key West. >> If we look back on some of the old house
>> and apologies, Miss Pierce, but we don't actually take questions, Miss Ree. >> Sorry. >> That's okay. You didn't know. First time attending. Next time. >> Yes, ma'am. and and that is fantastic but not the appropriate time. Sorry. >> But but I believe that we need to
>> we need to do research and find what these colors what these homes were originally and how palacta looked during the time that those homes were built and I think we need to go forward with an exact pallet to be able to give the people when they come in.
>> Yeah. Go ahead and pull it up. So this was within the purview of this particular board. It's actually part of your duties as uh set forth in in the code of ordinances. And I had the clerk just pull up St. Augustine since that
was referenced a couple of times. And you can see if you scroll to the top, Karen. Um it it basically this is an introduction on how to proceed. And you can scroll down and if you continue to scroll down, you
can see it's pre1821. and it goes forward just as you were stating with the color scheme. Um, we are probably close but not exact to St. Augustine, but this might be a good place to start for this board to potentially designate
a committee to further explore this and then make recommendations to the planning director. Ultimately, it would have to be approved by the commission, but this is where you would start if you wanted to embark on this process or at least a suggestion. Thank
you. May we all have copies of that emailed to us? Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss West. Miss Vote. >> Yes. I I had asked that we could discuss the proposed workshop for the board and to see if they were
interested. Um, what I've been experiencing is that a lot of our decisions that we're able to make are based on city ordinances and not and that doesn't always apply to historic districts. Sometimes there needs to be
more guidance on uh what is allowed and what isn't allowed and so on and so forth. and and I think that that is would be a good thing so that we can perfect these historic districts that we have and and
make them better. And so I've pulled up some stuff from Charleston. And I know that's a real high high bar, but it's basically being able to do these color charts, being able to identify uh like
the fact that we have metal buildings there now, so on and so forth, that we have our own guidelines that we do other than the attorney, the secretary of interiors that we add to it because other cities do that. They don't just go
by the secretary of of the interior. They also go by what things that they have developed and decided fits the city and so on and so forth. And I would like to have things tighter where our
decisions are more it's better for the people. it's easier for the people so that they don't not know and don't have these COAs and then we have you know crazy things go going on all over the place. So um I would like very much to
be a part of the workshop and have it and let's take all this really to heart and see how good we can do. >> I I completely concur with you. More information is better than less information. Um on the subject of Charleston if only right
>> I meant to say one other thing. I'm sorry. Yes ma'am. >> Um I would also like to incorporate after a while in that workshop or even in the beginning that we bring in Miss Odum for the CRA money because years ago and the code enforcement somebody from
code enforcement where we all sit together and we work together to make these areas better because code enforcement knows what they do. Miss Odum knows with the uh CRA grants that they had years ago, they used to take care of the uh code enforcement items
first. The money would go to them first and then it would go to the lowest income person and then it would go from that point on. So maybe if we work more with uh you know a structure and ideas and incorporate these people too >> at a later date or whatever the board
feels is good. I think we might could come out really good. Miss Vote, I think that is an excellent idea. I think as far as the the subject of a, you know, historic paint um pallet throughout the ages. I feel as though we have been charged with that as the historic
preservation board. Um I would hate to get too many cooks in the kitchen because we all know what happens when you do that. >> Um but I think moving forward um it is certainly within our guidelines as the city of Palaca's historical board to
take much more interest. Um and yet we don't and I think we should. >> Yes. >> Um so let's start with the the idea of a paint pallet workshop. Um again more information is wonderful. The the majority of the buildings that we have
in our historical districts typically are going to be wood as opposed to you know metal brick. Well okay brick. But you know I feel like this is a good starting point. I'm not sure um Miss West if u Miss Pierce needed to make that motion to
create a workshop for us to get together and and decide. >> Okay. >> Go ahead and set a a date if if you want this to you know obviously this will have to be publicly noticed so it complies with sunshine. So if you can identify a date now while you're all
together that's mutually convenient. She can go ahead and advocate. >> Can I also ask a question this and this >> Well, you know what? Let's get a second to Miss Pierce's. >> Okay. Go ahead. Miss Pierce made a motion that we get together as a board and we talk about paint colors. >> Would you like to second that? >> I'd love to second it.
>> Thank you. And now let's >> um I would also I don't know if we do it at a later date, but I would like to move from that one on to more and more things uh with the ordinances and the stuff that we need to support what we
would like to see the historic districts turn into. So, um, and >> and once again, I feel like that is within our purview as the historical board. >> So, let let's get let's get one under our belt and then move on from there. Yes, ma'am. >> Do you want me to go ahead and add a date to my motion? >> Sure. Add a date.
>> So, by the way, and I'm saying to make your mot uh final >> I amended motion. >> Your agendas have been pretty light. That's what I was gonna That's I was going to say at our next um board meeting >> in October. >> Okay. >> Would that be sufficient time between
now and if we can go ahead and go into a um workshop after our board meeting >> and sometimes we don't have a board meeting. Maybe we could have that as a workshop. >> I don't know that date. >> I'm just saying Thursday >> in general. >> First Thursday. >> So in lie of anything being on our
agenda as far as a >> also. Yeah. >> As an also >> October second. Okay. So >> all right. So we have a first to have a special workshop at the October 2nd meeting >> at the end of our October >> at the end of or in lie of other business. >> Exactly. >> Can I just ask one question? Wouldn't it
be easier if we did the workshop before at 4 and then go into a meeting if need be? >> I'm thinking the discussion is going to take a little bit longer. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. But if you need to make a motion on something, you could have it that same day.
I'm asking I'm asking just because >> I would I would not Yeah, I would rather not confuse an >> applic as it may >> but probably you know >> then I think the people need to come first. >> I would yeah I would say gohead >> take care of that take care of our
applicants first and then after our applicants are satisfied then we'll move to our workshop because it'll already be here and it's already set. >> Right. So the motion has sort of been amended but really more clarified. Are you okay with second? Okay. In that case we have a motion and a second. Any other
discussion? If not, all in favor say I. >> I. And opposed. >> Okay. Fantastic. Good. That moves us on to um board member comments. >> Just one more thing. I'm sorry. >> Oh, Mr. Agima. >> Yeah, we're going to try to get, you know, as much information as possible
for the workshop so we can have it for discussion here. Um I just want to point out one thing you know uh we do not have expertise in the planning department when it comes to historic preservation. So you need to know that that we are a little bit
limited you know what we can offer to you but we will try to get all the information so you can make a good decision. The other thing I want to point out is that right now in the process of completing the update to the comprehensive plan as you know we do
have an historic preservation element in the comprehensive plan. This is the document for the goals, objectives and policies of the element and this is what creates the basis for the regulations that we have in the code. So after we
finish this, we're going to the city is going to have to do the implementation of these goals and policies in the land development regulations. >> So I I estimate that in the next four months, you know, we'll be working on the land develop regulation. That would
be a very good opportunity to insert any changes that you need are needed in our code. >> And I what you're saying is the timing is right for this to happen. >> I think it is. >> Okay. And I I suggested the workshop too so that we could be more expertise
>> and and more >> let's not go expertise let's go >> you know everybody >> yes >> that's what my why >> nobody wants to have expertise yeah >> so I would like I would like to email to you to each one of you this document
which is at the moment is a draft >> please >> but uh so you can give me your comments you know take a look we are a very short time. You know, this is probably going to adopted by the board by December >> is when we want to get completed. >> Okay.
>> Uh the process the update to the comp plan. >> Okay. >> So, was this in fact the proposed workshop meeting? >> Yes. >> That is I had asked >> I had put it asked to put it on there and we could discuss it. >> Well, that is exceptional of you. >> Thank you.
>> So, it was bothering me, >> Mr. Pierce. Um so, we should be expecting two emails from you guys, correct? the one from that you posted up earlier the St. Augustine guideline and then also the draft. Correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. Perfect.
>> All right. Um, moving on. >> Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Rosa. >> In order to prepare us for the workshop, I haven't paint. >> Yeah, I have these. But I noticed that um her color, even though I saw it there
was not in this pallet. So, there'll be more. >> I don't think we want to get into, you know, English. >> No, I didn't know what we had, so I brought something. Those are the two big ones. Um, and I I don't obviously
believe that we could tell a homeowner that they have to use a Benjamin or or B. >> Exactly. Um, >> exactly. >> They say it's mentioned more number, you know, Z Q >> HQ >> HZ
>> HQ. Listen to me. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yes. >> Um and and what I would say is um perhaps get with Miss Hayes, Miss Rosa, because rather than go to the paint store and wipe them out of rather expensive pamphlets. That certainly could be something that can be copied
and and emailed to us. Is that correct? >> Okay. >> I have one for her now if you'd like. But I'm sure that I can get in touch with bunch of people corporate and have them send us whatever they want.
>> All right, fair enough. >> Miss Pavil, >> I just have one statement, but so if you get the pamphlet from Ben Moore or Cheryl Williams, sorry, I'm a Ben Moore girl. They give you the historic colors, but there's actually like a stack in the
color wheel of historical colors. It's more expansive than >> It does change every year. That was my thing. I just want to make sure everybody knew there's >> a ton. >> I mean, and and this this is just my opinion. I think the best place to start is going with a a sister city like St.
Augustine and maybe reaching out to a a city of similar age perhaps Dand. I'm just kind of spitballing here and and comparing sort of apples to apples as opposed to comparing a huge fan of colors from either Benjamin Moore or
Sherwin Williams or for that matter which also has a historical color chart. Uh I mean there's a gajillion of them and don't even get me into all the specialty paints. Let's see what other towns around us that are similar ages are doing and see if we can't make our lives simpler and certainly the lives
for our homeowners and and applicants easier um by giving them some indication of what we feel is appropriate in our town. >> And which cards to use that way they can get them themselves. >> Absolutely. >> All right. Um do we have staff comments?
>> Uh in that case um we are looking for a motion to adjurnn. I make a motion to adjurnn. >> Second it. >> Thank you, Miss Vote. >> We are adjourned.