So, let me just Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Let's go ahead and call our City of Palaca Historic Preservation Board meeting to order. This is March 5th, 2026 and it is indeed 4:00 pmish.
We will begin with the invocation which I will believe well which I will believe which I do believe will be led by Japan Malbury. Are you with us sir? >> Yes ma'am. I'm here. >> We are thrilled to have you. Please lead us sir.
>> Absolutely. Father, again we give you thanks and praise for your kindness all day. We thank you, dear God, for the opportunity to come together once again. We pray that thou would bless the workers, God, that you've established at this board
meeting. We ask for your divine presence. We ask for your wisdom and the undergirling of this meeting, God, to take this city in the direction that you would have it to go. We pray dear God that you will bless us as a people as a
whole. Keep us healthy, keep us wise, keep us in your care. It is in Jesus name we pray. Thank God. Amen. >> If we could remain standing, Mr. Hollister will lead us in the pledge to the flag of the United States of
America. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you,
>> Mr. Romero. If we could the roll call, please. >> Pardon me. >> Elizabeth Van Renberg, >> here. Brianna Pierce absent for the record. Megan Beville >> here. >> Patty B >> present.
>> Tim Jefferson's absent for the record. >> Chris Hollister >> present. Mary Jane absent for the record. We have quorum. >> Thank you very much. Moving on to item 1D in which the purpose of the historic
preservation board is to steward the architecture of properties in our city's historic districts by applying the guidelines of the secretary of the interior standards for historic preservation. Moving on to item 1E the appeals
procedure and exparte communication. Let's start with the with pardon me expartai communication. Is there anything that is wished to be shared by members of the board? >> No. If not, let's move on to the appeals procedure,
which is indeed any person wishing to appeal any decision made by the historic preservation board with respect to any matter considered at such meeting will need a record of the proceedings and for such purpose may need to ensure that a
verbatim record of the proceedings is made at the applicant's expense. which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. Florida statute 286105. Moving along, we are looking at approval
of the minutes of the January 8th meeting. Please remember that we did not meet in February. Were there any corrections or additions to the January 8th meeting minutes? If not, I'm looking for a motion to approve.
Motion to approve. >> Thank you. Do we have a second? Thank you, Miss Vote. All in favor, please say I. And opposed. Excellent. We have moved beyond that. Let's go on to item three, which is public comments not relating to things on the agenda. Let's open up for
public comments. Oh gosh, there's a lot of you here. I mean, it's exciting. Uh let's close public comments and move right on to item four of our agenda which is indeed new business. Let's begin with HPB case
2606. Florida trans the Florida Department of Transportation signed which is in fact an after the fact COA. The owners of said sign are the city of Placa. Uh the address is of
course in front of the Bronson Maholland House at 110 Madison Street and the parcel number is really long but ends in 0122. Miss Brown, >> good afternoon everybody. >> Good afternoon. >> Um this is a request for an after the
fact approval of a DOT sign located at the Bronson Mahulland House. The sign is part of the America 250 Florida road trip and celebrating the 250th anniversary of America. The sign is located at 110 Madison Street North
Historic District. Um, and on behalf of the DOT, the applicant is Mr. Ian Middlem. The property is owned by the city of Palaca. The sign is metal with red, white, and blue graphics, and the St. John's River
can be seen from this location. pictures are included in the agenda. Um, he is not here that I know of and so any questions you may have, I hope to answer them. >> Yes, sir.
>> Why did they put it there? It's horrible. >> It's really a disgusting sign. >> No. So, I don't know if however you decide to go with this if it should be moved or just I I have no idea. It was
after the fact and that's where I'm at. >> Okay. I may I may answer your questions. Uh my understanding is that the DOT contacted the public works department and uh they went and they looked at the location and I think for the public
works it was okay and thinking there was you know state sign. So that's how it got to be what it is. >> Have you seen the sign? >> Yeah. And that's when we realized, you know, when I saw that sign, you know, uh
I contact our court informing staff to issue not a violation, but not a violation for this for the city because we are the owners. Uh so that took you know like two or three months to contact finally to get a response from DOT and
they responded and they put the application for the after the fact certificate of appropriateness. >> Can I have this question? >> Of course. Thank you. >> And great dress. >> Thank you. Thank you. Um the sign um you
mentioned 250th. Is are is this like the standard sign that DOT is putting everywhere? Like I believe so for areas like this, the blue, the white, the red, and so on and so forth. >> I believe so. He gave me a link and I saw that it was, you know, the 250th
Florida road trip. >> Yeah. >> Uh the first uh places on it was Elatchua because it starts with A, but I I didn't go deeply into the website, but um it's all over Florida. All over Florida. It might be because it's blue,
white, and red. >> Yes. >> I think when they do these things, they're kind of like they make a decision. It's kind of standard everywhere. >> Yeah, it is. >> It is. Is that just for Palaka? Is it's many other places. >> Yes. >> Yes, I believe so. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome.
>> But by the same token, someone had to come up with the verbiage on the sign and I am interested in that. >> It isn't in the agenda. I have it on uh there's a picture of it, the back of the sign. Oh, definitely the verbiage is
included, but my my question is well, actually three-fold. Um, is it a temporary sign? >> I don't know. >> Who made the decision to put it up and who came up with the pertinent facts about Palaca that are on the sign? So
again, this is this is this is u the Florida Department of Transportation program to put these signs. They came up with the with the with the language and they agree with the public works where to put it.
>> It's up to you. It's up to you whether you want to, you know, uh you know, to issue the the the certificate or not. I don't think that they're going to have any problems, you know, with the sign is removed based on my understanding from the state.
>> If they removed it, would they replace it with something else? No. >> No, you just lose it. >> Yeah. And if you have all these different places that they're putting these signs up, I would think >> where are the other places within
>> usually, but um being in my mind that it's DOT that if they had to go to every place that they went to put a sign up and do the verbiage and everything with every city.
>> I think the verbiage is 55 years. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure the >> sign I'm pretty sure they go to every local government where they're going to put the sign like they did with us. They came to us. >> They did contact the city, you know, to to to place the sign. They just didn't
contact the planning department, that's all. >> Right. Had had this sign been placed outside of the historic district, we obviously wouldn't be here and this would be a non-issue. But because they chose to place it in a historic
district, it does need a COA. >> Yeah. >> Um they could remove the sign and place it outside the historic district without any implications whatsoever. >> That is true. >> From my point of view, that is definitely a way to lean. Um I I agree
with Mr. Hollister. It to me is it it kind of flies in the face of of what we attempted and and I felt like we clearly did at the Bronze Mahaland House when we put the funding together to get the correct historical signage that was
forever and it had the correct historical data um behind it as opposed to just going and nailing something up. Um, truly when I first saw it, because I I live a block behind the sign, I thought it was like a visit palaca thing
and I was like, gosh, why is this here? I had no idea it actually came via the city of Palaca. And I'm sorry, it's not to my taste. >> Were there any more questions? >> Is this something the city workers can
dig up and move? >> Yes. Real simple. Find them more. strategic spot for it, >> Miss Piv. >> So, where I mean, if the city workers can dig it up because I I agree that
it's not in an appropriate place, where would they move it to? >> Well, if it were indeed outside of the historical districts, then they would not need our permission to put it wherever they chose to put it. >> Okay. Thank you.
Um, and by the way, uh, we do have public comments on this. So, if this is an appropriate time, let me go ahead and open up to public comments. Miss Kitchens, if you would. You know the drill.
>> Well, and I do for Florida. Uh, first of all, I think that the city, and this is go needs to go through the city manager or the commission, the city public works needs to meet with the planning department before they put up signs randomly or let anybody else put up signs randomly. Number one. Uh, number
two, this isn't a historic district. Uh, but I don't think that anybody would particularly have a problem if it was on other city right away and not on the Bronsonville Holland House, which is a a member of the National Register of Historic Places. They could put it across the street at the Northeast Production Credit Union bureau on their
private property if they agreed. I'm sure St. Marks, who always wants to be really good neighbors and just tore down their historic parish hall, has plenty of room for it on their piece of property and the city has rideway all over the whole city of Pala, not just the historic district. So DOT has many
options as does the city. Basically, it needs to be moved. I've had a couple of members come up to a a couple of people including members of the historical society. I am a member of the Putham County Historical Society. I am on the board of directors. I'm not necessarily speaking for them. I'm speaking for me. I've had some members come up to me and
say, "Did you see that horrible sign?" I said, "What are you talking about?" And then I saw it. I do realize it's in honor of our country, but that's beside the point. That's not dis honoring our country. Right now, it's dishonoring the historic district. There's other places. DOT has right away everywhere. Let them put it on other rideway. Reed Street,
beautiful. You can see it from coming and going on the highway again. Put it on city public rideway. put it on private property. I'm sure St. Marks uh waxing unsarcastic for a minute. I'm sure that they would be delighted to have it on their property. It would be a good draw for them. Uh but there's other but it definitely needs to be removed
from here. And when DOT says they took the city of Paca, they didn't talk to the city of Pala. The city of Pala is a city commission and the planning boards. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Kitchens. Do we have other comments for the public comment section? Yes, sir. If you would. Um, and
I believe you've been here a couple of times, but I'm not Oh, not here. Oh, well, goodness. If you would please give your just name and city of residence. So, >> Bob Morgan. I live at 407 Mo Park. Um,
and uh, I see a couple of positives with the sign. First of all, uh, it was a nice gesture. You know, the state was nice and putting up the sign. The other positive is they spilled pla
correctly. Beyond that, I I agree with everybody. It's it's not a very attractive sign. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Morgan. And I am embarrassed to say that we're neighbors and I just took you completely out of
context. I was like, I know I know him. >> Well, we really should. And would you mind being on the Christmas tour again this year? for staying in ask the >> I will I totally will >> decision maker in my family >> I I I get it and yeah thank you very
much and apologies all right so we've had some public comment board members what are your thoughts >> Mr. Hollister at at at your convenience, sir. >> I'd like to make motion that the city works move the sign to a better location
out of the historic district. >> So, so your your mot the only thing that you are uh tasked with doing is either approving or denying the COA. >> Thank you, Miss West. >> Try again, sir. >> I make a motion that we do not approve
the COA. Thank you, Mr. Hollister. >> I'll second. >> Thank you, Miss Pavville. All in favor, please say I. And oppose. I >> Thank you very much. Let's move on to
new business. Item B, HPV case 2607. Um, in order to add a porch railing fence, post lantern, repair the gutters, and that bugaboo paint. The address is 516 North 4th Street, Palaca, Florida,
the North Historic District. Parcel number beginning in or pardon me, ending in 0041. >> Hello again. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Um, this is a request to obtain a certificate of appropriateness for the exterior improvements made on a
structure and the property. The parcel of course is at 516 North Fore Street North Historic District and the applicant is Miss Selena Gavin. Photographs in your agenda illustrate where the construction and maintenance would like to be done. Uh this includes
railings along the front porch, a lantern post in the corner of the property and front um gutters, fence and paint. In the Florida master site file, it says the colonial revival home was
built between 1909 and 1915. The home is on a corner lot and contributes to a well-defined historic neighborhood. The entire Florida master site file is included in your pack. >> The applicant is here if you have any questions.
>> Uh, thank you, Miss Brown. >> Thank you, >> Miss Gavin. come on up if you would like to give us a bit of a scope on your project. And I believe you've moved here from St. Augustine. Oh, if you would at the No.
>> Oh, it's okay. We're gentle. We're gentle. If you would just name and and city of residence. >> I live in St. Augustine and um I always wanted a old house. It's always been my dream. Had to have an old
house. So, I saw this house and I fell in love with it. So, I want uh to make it beautiful again and um I love the area. It's just I just love it. It's beautiful. I'm from Arizona,
>> the desert, you know, and I'm in love with the oak trees and all that and the streets and all that. >> So, um I um wanted it to look um very authentic, very original. And um the I
think the original color was white cuz if you pull out the paint it's white. So I thought, man, I want to bring it back white. Then that's where I got that idea. And the railings um Miss Brown uh could not find where it ever had
railings. So I picked out a style that I kind of thought that would go with the neighborhood of what I'd like. But the pictures you guys have, it has the handrails that go up the stairs. Um,
that's not going to be part of it. Um, it's going to be I'd like to have one iron cast iron of where you grab onto when you're going up the stairs. The wooden ones I don't think they're I don't know. I just want something that's
more handw worthy of constant use. You know what I mean? without I don't know. That's just how I feel about it. But the rest of it is just going to be the regular which the picture you have. And um and the gutters
um it was a last minute just jump on the internet and find out, you know, like the style and the specs of all that because of the slope of the roof and what would be the the biggest uh like there's a 5 in drain and there's a
six inch drain. And I did some research and they said do the six because of it's three story and a slope roof. So I came up with that and I preferably I like to do copper but I mean that's kind of my goal but I don't know if that would be a
fly with you guys or just a regular metal. So anyway that was a question with you guys. I don't know. So if you guys have any questions I could I could ramble on all day about this house.
Thank you, Miss Gavin. Miss Vote, um the railings that you want to put up, are they going to be painted white at the house? Okay. >> Yes. >> Not like what what everything. >> Thank you. >> Well, first of all, welcome
>> and and the house you bought is very very special to me. Um, >> well, I lived in the the North Historic District for way too many years. And your house is where I watched um American Horror Story. Um Oh, really?
>> Oh, we'd all get together and we were so scared. But anyway, that's an aside. Uh when when uh Holly Shopel owned it. >> Oh, okay. If you remember boxes that were before. >> Oh, yeah. Have that memory now in my head. >> Yes. But anyway, all that aside, and I
don't mean to make Miss West cringe, um, but normally normally what we do, Miss Gavin, at this point is we kind of separate things out and we just kind of go one by one. >> Okay? >> So, if we have any questions for you, if you don't mind, we might ask you to come back up. But first, if you don't mind,
let's just see if anyone has a comment about it in the public. So, let's open up a public hearing. And we're not seeing anyone, so let's close that down. Um, ladies, gentlemen, why don't we take the wood railings on the front porch
first? Does anyone have a interesting perspective on that? Concerns, anything of that nature? >> No. And I can't remember if it used to happen or not. I feel like it did.
>> I feel like it didn't. And I always wondered why because the height was such that it should have. >> I just can't remember. Yeah. Well, all right. Um are we I don't have a
problem with it. Okay, Mr. Hollister. >> Um I have no problem um any pupations anyhow. >> In in fairness, I'll let you know that I have done work for a scen on this property.
Will you continue to do work again, which might be an issue, >> Miss West? >> Yeah. So, we we did talk about this that you said you had >> previously worked for her, but as to this particular application,
would it endure to your benefit or detriment? >> Well, certainly I'm not going to paint the house. I'm not going to climb and put gutters up. I might lean against the lampost. Yeah. >> No, I don't see I don't see me doing any
of the work that she's describing here. >> Okay. So, you you would only have to recuse yourself if you are going to receive a direct pecuniary benefit. Um, and if if you are stating that you're not, then I don't see a need to recuse yourself.
>> No, I'm I'm not gonna do any of this work. You're not going to put a fence in. Would you consider Miss West um that perhaps Mr. Hollister should not make a motion to approve or second just simply vote in
its favor or disfavor or >> it's a simple up or down e either he has a benefit or he doesn't and he can participate fully if he does not. >> Thank you for the clarification. So, moving along. Um, it does not appear
that anyone has a problem with the wood railings on the front porch. Um, back post lantern. I only have one question. It looked to me in the application that it would be in the front of the house, not on the back of the house. >> Um,
thank you. But in the analysis, >> it's listed as a black >> black post. Oh, you know what? Black, not back. Okay. Sorry. >> Do we need to vote on each item? >> I I feel like if we're moving along, we
could simply discuss the items and then give a blanket approval. >> Thank you. >> Um some sometimes when when things get a little bit contentious, it's good to split them up, but if we're all in agreement, I feel as though we can just move forward. Okay. So, a black post
lantern. Is that a gas lantern? >> No. that I have it like it's a a gas. >> Yeah, you might want to I'm sorry. Come back up and visit with us. >> No, that's okay. It's great practice.
>> Um the light bulb uh is going to flicker like a gas lamp, like a real one. Like it it looks really authentic and that's what I have already on the front porch. The lanterns are that way. I love it. >> Yeah. Thank you for the clarification.
The only reason that I ask about it is um we we've had times in the past where we've done gas. >> Oh, >> and it is up to the homeowner and then it becomes like a kind of a sticky wicket of who's maintaining it, who's paying for it. But if this is something
that you know is directly off your house and it's electrical. >> Oh, okay. >> Are we okay with that? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Moving on to copper gutters. I don't think that any of us would take umbrage to someone spending more money on their historic home.
>> No, I would be jealous of it. >> But I'm all for u moving on to the wood fencing. Are there any buyins on that or questions for the applicant? I'm going to assume that the picket is
for the front all the way to where the fence was originally in the back and then it becomes the stock eight. >> Yes. >> Sorry. I I keep dragging you up here. >> Yeah, but we can't unfortunately. You would not believe how many people watch our meetings.
>> Oh, >> like four. But it's important that they hear you. >> That's okay. >> Okay. Um, yeah, it's a small wooden fence in the front and um I want I think it's a six foot that's on that. >> Yeah, it says six foot
>> or eight foot six to eight feet. So six So the the front is the picket, >> right? >> Just like this. And the back is the uh six foot height by 8 foot with pressure. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Don't go away.
>> Okay. People want to sneak up. >> That's okay. Um, ladies, gentlemen, any issues with fencing? >> I was there before. >> Okay. Uh, moving on to the exterior body and trim paint, I think all we have to say on this note is thank you for painting your home.
>> Yeah. >> Oh, wonderful. >> On that note, um, where are we leaning, ladies and gentlemen, toward approving this as a blanket COA? I I'll make the recommendation or the motion that you
approve the uh porch railings, the lampost, the gutters, and the front and the back fence and the color um being white and trim in black and the excuse me, I should have said the gutters of
copper, the fences of u wood in the back and pick it in the front and the porch railings are going to be painted white. >> Yes. same board as well. Yes, I make that motion. >> Thank you, Miss Vote. Do we have a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you, Miss Favville. All in favor,
please say I. I >> and opposed. >> Thank you so much. >> Welcome to the neighborhood. No pressure, but if you want to be on the Christmas tour, please call me. >> All right, moving on to agenda item five. Other business.
All right, seeing none, board member comments. Um, >> yes, ma'am. Miss vote. >> I thought there was going to be something on the thing about when I came and spoke to you about the ordinances and doing all of that. And I know we
missed a meeting, though. I had expected it to be this meeting. >> Yes. I'm sorry. if and if you could please let the clerk know so we can make sure it's in the record so we can get it on the next agenda. >> Um I had gone and spoke to um Miss West
about um ordinances and that we could have a a workshop in our next meeting um where we would make a decisions of more than one. Like last time we just did the paint chart
and that I don't even know if it's been approved yet or been read twice or whatever >> it has has been approved. >> Okay. And that's took about four months. Well, I was of the mindset that we could um all come up with different things in
in the historic district that we would like to see have the historic ordinances, not the just the city ordinances and do it all at one time. like if there's three or four or whatever, we would have that discussion, talk about it, and then do
it because it'll be quicker than waiting four months for each individual uh recommendation. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Just um uh we need the uh whatever times work for y'all to special. So now that you've brought it up, you can have
a board discussion on whether or not your fellow board members also want to do that because one person can't call for a workshop. >> So if if you all agree, you can uh have a motion for >> exactly the scope of what you're going to be discussing and set the time and
date for a workshop. give us if you would miss vote a overview of what you were thinking about for the workshop and I have a couple of things that I would like to add if we are going to do this. I think it is a great idea. Um
I would kind of like to go on the record as I'd be really interested in hearing from code enforcement about our historic districts. Um, I'd be interested in hearing more about how long COAs
last before they expire. Um, there are a number of different things that I feel should have teeth for us as a HPB board. Um, I'd also be interested in knowing why it's so simple for us to make a
studied, rational, historic decision as a historic preservation board and it's so easy to just overturn it when it gets to the city commission. But those are just my thoughts. Yes, ma'am. Oh, okay. Um, one of the for
instances is like because there wasn't any ordinance in the historic district to have metal buildings and metal sheds, we had to grant them when normally it would
not be an historic uh building on the property for a historic neighborhood. And there are other things like that that um we could establish and it it would take you know we'd all have to think about it and come up with what
what are some of the things and then have the discussion and see what ones that we want to put forth. So, it would be things like that, things in the neighborhood and the historic neighborhood that you'd like to see be under the ordinances for the historic neighborhood because now we're just
bound by city ordinances like cars parked up in the front yard all the way up to the porch. Um there's lots of different things that um you would not normally want to see in a historic neighborhood, but we don't have any
teeth like you say >> to prevent that. And it might make it easier for the people in the city who are working not to have to have all this paperwork that gets generated when you know people are bothered by cars in the
yard and you know different different things and it makes a lot of work for them if these ordinance are there then it's easier for people just to follow the rules when they move in the neighborhood. So would your recommendation be that we
as a board perhaps take the next month come up with the questions that we have turn them into our city liaison I can't call you the city clerk I'm sorry >> planning director um so that the the
questions could be directed to the correct department and we could get some answers. Miss West, feel free to chime in. >> I will excuse me, >> Mr. Agima. >> I was like a bunch of answers. I was looking for like when we did the uh
painting, the paint chart >> that we they did the the work that they felt was appropriate for them to do the planning board and then they presented that to us and and then we went through the normal process that you have to do to get that approved. So, I'm saying
have those types of things that we want to see be in the historic neighborhood or not be in the historic neighborhood and come up with those, have that as a discussion as a board here and then
present them to Jane and and so on for us to go move forward and get them approved and go through the process, but a lot at one time instead of one for four Maybe three
>> as opposed to pulling teeth. It would be just a complete extraction. This is how we feel as a board. >> Yeah, exact. It's easier, you know. >> No, I got you. I'm sorry. I I I was not being at all sarcastic. Um I actually I really wasn't. I get where you're coming
from, Miss Vote. Um, is that something that that that we as a very well a quorum anyway representation of our board feel like we can come up with before the next meeting or should we give it
two months to allow other board members to weigh in? Please, please direct me. >> What I mean, a month is a long time to me. Maybe that's because I'm old, but a month is a long time. And um and I think
all of us are all care. We're all involved. Most of us live in the historic districts and stuff and um it's and I think a lot of people already have feelings about how what they feel about what shouldn't be and should be and so on and so forth. So I think by next
month meeting because we may not even have one, who knows? um by next month's meeting we should at least be able to I could say a few that I think you could say some you think and so on and maybe we'll agree maybe we won't. Would would it would it make sense on on a level to
put it out to the public and advertise that at our next meeting we would like to invite members residents of the historic districts to come and share their feelings with us so that we could have a bit of a stepping stone. But that would be a a little bit different.
Usually a workshop when you say workshop is between the the store reservation board and staff. >> That's usually what a workshop is. In some places they allow public input during the workshop. Some places they don't. The public is invited to attend
but not to make any comments because it's just a workshop. >> And I and I agree with that because it's not it's not about per se the public. It's it's about the board setting standards for the historic
neighborhood and neighborhoods and um and doing our uh you know just setting the standards. And when you move into a historic neighborhood, most people realize that there are, you know, certain things that are okay and
certain things aren't, like they've come for color and so on and so forth. So, um it's it's just like now we don't have any teeth for anything because if you say no tin or aluminum buildings, they say, "Well, there's nothing in the ordinances to say that they can't have
it because the historic neighborhoods are covered by city ordinances, not historic neighborhood." And the um the Secretary of the Interior is very um gray. It's very interp, you know,
interpreted by whomever. There's it's just too liquid >> and nobody wants to say no. >> Wow. I mean, you know, no, but I mean, completely agreed. And where to even start? And part of what rings incredibly
true to me is no teeth. like we can say all day that, you know, we don't necessarily want metal outbuildings in historic districts, but if there's no policing avenue behind it, then who will enforce this? And then you you kind of
put that together with the fact that I'm thrilled the historic paint pallet got as far as it did and hopefully it will continue, but we've been told repeatedly that we're not getting stricter, we're getting more lenient. So
therefore, like you as a board are kind of getting outsourced to just yeah, move wherever you want, do whatever you want. Um, that totally flies in the face of everything that I've come to know about historic preservation, but we're sort of waiting for more details on that. Um,
I would love, sorry, to sit down and write a long list of of things that that I would like to not see in my historic neighborhood. I would love to um and I would be glad to and I could come up with it in a lot shorter than 30 days.
>> Yeah. >> But your question resonates with me where the teeth to enforce it. >> We can say all day long >> an ordinance will an orance. I'm sorry to, you know, to bring it up again just to remind you that we do have Florida
statute 180 that was passed last year that that's not allowed to be more restricted what we are today. So that might be a limit to it. And and if you think that they're not enforcing it, they are. Our comprehensive plan that we
just took three years for us to prepare. We sent it to the state and the response from the state is that our comprehensive plan as adopted is new and void because it was and if I can show you the things that they said it was more restrictive made absolutely no sense.
>> But PLA is not more restricted than St. Augustine or any of the other >> but we would be going by them. We're talking about new rules being put. any rule that you want to put in an ordinance that is considered to be more restrictive than what we have today
>> will not pass and >> well we don't have any today we don't have anything so >> and that's why you cannot have another you cannot have one >> what's our purpose >> well I'm sorry but we are facing the possibility >> maybe J would like to add something to
it but uh we cannot be more restrictive that that's that's the bottom line if we don't have a regulation today if we come up with a new regulation that we would would be considered more restrictive. Secretary of Excuse me for the Secretary of the Interior. They have we're supposed to be going by
that. No, those are only those are just guidelines. You know, he's not mandatory. >> But I'm trying to say to you >> or try to understand I'm trying to I'm talking I'm just communicating you and I could be wrong. I'm I'm But this is what's in my mind.
>> Um all the other cities everywhere are are going by those guidelines. I don't see us going by those guidelines. >> Well, >> and that's why I was told we have no ordinances. >> Well, I think I think you know at least
since my tenure here in the city of Palaka and all the meetings that I attended, you know, with historical preservation board, I think you haven't been imposing those standards. That is what we've been guiding your decisions. So, uh, >> they just don't see them being followed.
And I see people not even a lot of people not even bothering because they know we have no teeth. >> Yeah, that's a different thing. You know, if if they not doing what they're supposed to do based on your certificate that you issue, you approve, then that's
a different that's an enforcement. >> No, I mean, they're not we didn't even prove it. It don't even come. >> Yeah. I don't disagree with what you're saying, you know, that they need to have that only that we are I just want to remind you that we are limited by what the Florida statute is mandating today.
>> So, >> and they're very strict. They don't, you know, like I tell you, our comprehensive planning was deemed new and void, >> Miss Biz. >> So, in St. Augustine, they have different restrictions, HP1, HP2. We
cannot do that here. Correct. Is that what you're saying? Well, what I'm saying is anything that is considered to be more restrictive >> would not pass master. >> Okay. The state that was my question. >> Well, and and unfortunately, as I understand it, and I've I've been looking into it a great deal, if if this
isn't something that has been on the books for a long time, you cannot become more restrictive about it now. And all I would have to say to that is black of the wolf is at the door. and we should have done this a long time ago
and shame on the people who have been in charge for not putting this in action and making it so. >> I cannot I cannot speak for the people, you know, I cannot speak for them. So >> what I am saying is this has been coming
down the pike for a long time. We are one of the few communities that I have le ever ever lived in and I've lived all over the world that has paid less attention to the importance of history and preservation and unfortunately now
it is circling around and it's it's biting us. It's going to bite us and I feel horrible about it. But unfortunately, misvote none of us well possibly I sat here at the time only because I've
sat on these boards for so many years but someone should have done something earlier. >> Okay. Yeah, that's that's >> that's already passed. But I would like to make a suggestion to you that each member of you know submit to us what you know what the type of ordinance you
would like to see what kind of regulation and we can review that and I'll prepare a white paper for you to consider and then you can bring that as a workshop and have a discussion. I'm not sure it's going to be in a month, but
>> so I'm I'm doing some research as you guys are all talking to determine the implications of SB180, which are basically do prevent local governments from enacting more burdensome
restrictions on development and it has absolutely affected the comp plan. However, there does appear to be some loopholes um regarding regulations as they apply to contributing structures within a
historic district. So long as it was officially listed in the National Register of Historic Places before 2000, I don't think that's directly applicable because we don't have all of the buildings within the Historic District listed on the registry of historic
places. Um, however, you know, I I think it's worth a conversation. Um, if you want to at least provide some topics for think about it over the next 30 days, some topics that we can put on
the agenda. You had rattled off a couple, but we really do need board consensus on moving forward on what that agenda is going to look like. Um, Chair Van Vansburg, you posed a couple of questions. I can answer those
questions for you right now. >> Thank you. >> Uh, certificate of appropriateness does not have an expiration date. >> Um, in terms of why it's so easy to overturn HPB uh meeting decisions, you know, this is
the bane of every single advisory board to a local government. Um, I sat as chair of the planning board for St. Augustine Beach for eight years and was incredibly frustrated when our decisions would get detered overturned by the city
commission, especially when it came to embassy suites. Um, but that aside, uh, you know that you're functioning in an advisory role and unfortunately they do have the ability
to overturn your decision. um if you do feel really strongly about the decision that you made, you do have the opportunity um to move forward with preserving the city's position in circuit court. Um it's just basically a
second tier level of review. Um but you know, your strongest case that we would have had so far was the demolition of St. marks and there was not the will to go ahead and take that up to market core. >> Um, I don't think I've ever seen and not
being on the board, just not even being on the board in the 30 years I've here, I don't think I've ever seen somebody appeal that didn't get it. >> Mr. Hollister, >> I I wasn't at the meeting, but I understand that there was a a a house
that had a chimney that was built at a later date. There's federal guidelines also governing historic areas. And if I remember correctly, if it wasn't originally part of the structure,
we can't make them keep it there. >> Mr. Hollister, there was really no way to to actually distinguish if it was part of the original structure because please don't forget that our master site files started in the 1980s and that is about all we have apart from some
sandborn maps to try to figure out if the chimney was there or not. What we based our decision off of was what was the architecture at the time and would they have had indeed a chimney and the answer was yes. Um,
thank you for appreciating my frustration, Miss West. Um, I I guess there there is a part of me that um really feels as though our board
does its level best to caretake, to guard, to to steward the the the the historical properties within our districts, knowing that so many of them
are are just rubble now and we try to do the best that we can under the circumstances. We try to to make our best decisions based on those structures as opposed to the homeowners that that should simply guard them and steward them for the next
generation in in our estimation. And I don't mean to speak for everyone, but I feel like maybe I do because otherwise why would you be on this board? Um, and yes, in in agreement with the mis vote, it it is it's it's
kind of harsh when it's like we did the best we could. We made the best decision we could. This is our job, but by the same token, we're just falling in tears with our heart in this community to have our decisions be overturned. And you
think to yourself like, A, why are we here? And and and b, wow, so y'all got a couple of votes out of that. >> I your house suffered. >> I care very much about the historic districts. I've lived in every one for 30 years. Renovated seven houses. I know
y'all have heard that too many times. So I take it I really care. And in my estimation, the homes that we have, I mean, they're historical and we have a fine, we have a lot >> of, you know, really beautiful areas in
these homes. >> And it affects the values >> of of the city's properties of more taxes. I mean, just not that I want to pay any more taxes, but you get what I'm saying. Just affects everything. It affects the how we live and the
children, how they grow up. And I mean it's all tied in all of it is as to it's not just you know somebody's decision or something like that. I just take it seriously and I if you went anywhere else >> before I came to Palaca I bought in the
historic district because anywhere else I went in my life and I was 43 when I came here. If you it was like oh you do you live in a historic district? It was a big deal. you know, you were like your chest was puffed out and that meant you had a great beautiful home and you lived
in a great area. Well, that doesn't apply here. >> It's like what do you mean I have to maintain my home? Well, and and to that point, I'm sorry to interrupt, but to that point, you know, there are many
many uh jurisdictions where they provide incentive to property owners to to preserve and improve historic houses uh through taxes, rebates, through other means. And we have nothing here. We
>> well we have >> we have the CRA which I've already spoke to and a long time ago Miss Carrera had introduced it and the CRA money is for blight and it's from the tax monies of the historic districts and what they did
is when you had code enforcements on your property they would take the money first and give it to the people with the code enforcements like if they needed a new roof or they needed their house painted or they needed a new porch and the money would go there first And then
out of the money, the poorest people in the historic neighborhood would get their applications serviced first and then it went from that point on to, you know, uh, incomes and so on. And that was a great program and it helped a lot
of the blight, which is what it's supposed to do. And it helped these people who can't, you know, maybe fall on bad times or can't afford to make these properties back nice again and steward them and take care of them and be beautiful. So, we ha we had that. We
could have it again. We just I don't know why we don't. >> Well, we we absolutely had the the the tiff hip, the tax increment finance fund home improvement program, and it was definitely a huge thing. I mean, my
ex-husband and I stewarded it in the North Historic District for many years, and I I I I believe we had 36 projects that that we completed um for homeowners. And in the southside, Robbie
Korea and Mike Gagdon were in charge of that side of it. Um, I personally had some some major failings about that program because I I don't believe maintenance um should be something that other people pay to do. It should be
something that you're required to do. But I agree with you, Miss Vote, that you know, if if you were a if you were a homeowner of of some length and, you know, you'd lived in the neighborhood for some time and you'd fallen on hard times and you couldn't maintain your
home. Again, it was about your home, not you. Yes. Steuart your home for the next generation. Um, I think there are a lot of things that that should have been ironed out about the TIFF program as opposed to just cancelling it. Um, and I would recommend that the city of Palaka
go back and look at a lot of the projects that were completed if they could be found. Last thing I heard, they've been missing for years. The entire box is gone. But um >> definitely took care of the blight. >> It it did. Now, were the properties
maintained for the most part? No. But were the roofs that we put on still on the properties? Yes. Were the windows that were replaced still watertight? Absolutely. So, there there are pluses and negatives. Um,
I don't really kind of know where to go at this point except for it. It seems to me that we we really have a great deal that we would like to talk about assuming that we would all like to talk about it. >> If I may make some suggestion to help
guide you here. Um, the legislative session is not over. There are some glitch bills that are being proposed. Unfortunately, they they don't have companions, but you never know. the sausage making happens in the last week or so of the session. I given how long it took for all of you to come to some
consensus on the color palette. I I would advise that we go ahead and have that workshop. I think Miss Vote is right on track. It took a long time for that. So, let's let's go ahead and at least have the conversation. So, if for
some wild reason SB80 gets um fixed or if one of the many lawsuits that's pending against the state by local governments, if they prevail, at least you'll have it ready to roll when that happens. So going back to your workshop
idea, if we could simply have some items that you would like to have discussed on that agenda. I heard from Miss Vote metal sheds and generally other criteria um in HPB's in historic districts for structures such as other than metal
sheds. >> If if you could let us know who to email our thoughts to, I think that would be >> just send it to us to me. Certainly. Can we do that? >> Excellent. >> And if you can get that in to us a week
before the next uh meeting, I don't know when that is, Alex. Uh we can make sure that it's months. >> I am not going to be I'm going to be out vacation. So I I mean you more than you
want to prepare the paper and have a discussion at the next meeting. Mr. Hollister, speak into the microphone. Sir, >> did we approve his vacation? >> Actually, actually, not yet. I'm going anyway.
>> All right. Might might it be possible to um send an email out, Mr. Romero, to the other board members who are not here today, just saying, "This is where we're going. Email your your comments, questions." >> Yeah, no problem. I I could do that.
>> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. All right, ladies, gentlemen. Uh oh, wait, one more thing. Staff comments. >> I guess I was going to bring it up just to let you know, but I guess you all know >> you're on vacation. >> Yeah, that's true.
>> That's why you're not here. >> Yeah. No, the appeal was just to let you know that appeal was granted by by the city commission. >> Exactly. Our point. >> All right. Looking for a motion to uh adjourn. >> Motion.
>> Thank you, Mr. Hollister. >> We are adjourned. >> Thank you for the water chain. >> Yes. Okay. Thank you.