Father, we thank you again for your loving kindness and for your tender mercy. We thank you for this time of sharing and coming together. We pray God for the wisdom those uh board members that serve uh this capacity. We pray God
that you will give them guidance and understanding in what's necessary to move this city in the proper direction. We thank you God for what you've been doing and what you're going to do. Bless us now in Jesus name we pray. Amen.
Thank you, Madam City Clerk. If we could the roll call, please. Jefferson here. Megan here. Hollister here. Pierce here.
Did I say it right? almost that's you know I'm not worried about it. Uh moving on to our meeting purpose disclosure. The purpose of the historical preservation board is to steward the architecture of properties in our city's historic districts by applying the guidelines of the secretary
of the interior standards for historic preservation. Next item on the agenda is the appeals procedure and exparte communication. Ladies and gentlemen, anything that we would like to uh talk about in the way of exparte communication?
Okay, seeing none, we will move on to the appeals procedure. Any person wishing to appeal any decision made by the historical preservation board with respect to any matter considered at such meeting will need a record a record of the proceedings and for which purpose
may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made. Which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based? Florida statute 286.0105. Moving on to item two of our agenda, the approval of the minutes from the September 4th meeting. Has everyone had
a chance to review those? Indeed. Did we see any corrections? All right. In that case, I'm looking for a motion to approve. I'll go ahead and make um motion to approve. Thank you, M. Second. Thank you, Mr. Vote. We have a motion and a second to approve the September 4th minutes. All in favor, please say I.
I. And opposed. Excellent. Moving along to the next segment of our meeting, which is public comment. Let's open public comment. And please remember that this is not related to agenda items. For the specific agenda items, we will have
our own section of public comment there. It's a tough crowd. All right. Seeing no general public comments, let's go ahead and close public comments down and move on to item four on our agenda, which is indeed new business. Item A, HPB25-25501
Kirby Street. It is a request to obtain an after-the-act COA for the installation of a wooden handicapped ramp. The owner is uh Mr. Kevin Gonzalez. And I see from our packet that he has also appointed a representative who is here as well, Miss Reese.
Welcome. Let's begin as we always do with a report from city staff. Yes, ma'am. Good afternoon, everybody. And for the record, it's Kenneth, not Kevin. Okay. This is a request to obtain an after the fact certificate of appropriateness for
the exterior wooden handicap ramp that has been installed on the structure of this property. The parcel is located at 501 Kirby Street in the South Historic District. The applicant is Mr. Kenneth Gonzalez and also Miss Marton Reese is
present. He is Mr. Gonzalez's caregiver and resides at the property. The ramp consists of wooden body, wood railings and also there's photographs to illustrate where the ramp is placed at the front floor of the structure.
Mr. Gonzalez is a veteran that was in the hospital at the time the ramp was built by the church. According to the Florida master The house is an example of a Victorian frame vernacular residence built between
1892 and 1897. The home is not eligible for national register but is significant as part of the district at a local level. The Florida mountain side file has been included in the agenda. The applicant is
here if you have any questions. Thank you very much, Miss Brown. Do we have questions for Miss Brown? Not at this time. Thank you. Thank you. I am desperately trying to turn my phone
off and it is not helping. Um All right. Mr. Gonzalez, did you wish to uh to speak with us about this? tell us a little bit about the project or would you prefer Miss Reese speak with us or what? She was taking
Well, you know what? I if you wouldn't mind please if you could approach and just um we can certainly bring a chair up for you if that would be more comfortable for you. We'll we'll do anything that we can to accommodate you, sir. But if you would
please just give your name and Okay. area of residence for the record. Thank you. Okay. I was in the hospital when all this was done. I was having a lot of problems walking and everything. So, I
didn't know anything, but I got home. I was gone for several weeks. That's all I knew about it. I'm here now. Okay. I'm here now. Okay. You can hear me now. Um, do we have questions for Mr.
Gonzalez regarding the handicap ramp? Um, just I I always go on the record as saying that we prefer to hear about things before they're done as opposed to an after the fact COA, but in your case it it sounds like there are some extenduating circumstances, sir, and you were the the
recipient of a a very lovely thing to do for you. It just didn't quite follow the pro protocol that that were used. As you said, I wasn't there. I couldn't have done anything about it. A well, you you are with us today and we appreciate you being here, sir, and thank you for your service. All right. If we don't have questions of
Mr. Gonzalez, perhaps we should allow him to go ahead and take a seat. Okay. Thank you, sir. Let's go ahead and open up to public comment. Okay. Again, seeing no public comment, we will
move beyond that to um board discussion. Ladies and gentlemen, yes, Miss Vote. Um, the only only thing that I am concerned about is um that the structure is secure, that it's like the top rails
and everything look kind of thin. And maybe they need to beef those up a little bit or whatever, but it's not looking um as strong and as safe maybe as it needs to be, especially if you're having trouble walking and stuff. So maybe they can add
something to it with the rails, how thin they are. as I'm sorry, Miss Oh. Uh, did you wish to come up and and speak to the Okay. Um, I don't know if they can get the church
to maybe come and and make sure that those rails are more substantial and all of that because it just looks the bottom of it doesn't look bad. It's just the rails and the side pieces that look a little weak.
Like with a lot of rains and a lot of use, you might it might end up being a hinder as opposed to helping you. Something for the applicant to think about. Yes. By the same token, one of one of the questions that I thought of was, you
know, how how is it fastened to the building? And then I thought, well, if it's freestanding, actually, it's really better for the building itself. So I kind of moved on from that thought. Okay. So we we've had a little bit of uh discussion and observation. Would anyone like to move forward with this?
Remember I don't do that. That's not my part. I'll move I'll move forward to go ahead and approve the COA after the fact based on the circumstances. And I hope you check into that just for yourself for the safety.
I'll second that. Thank you. We have a motion by Miss Vote, a second by Mr. Hollister to approve an after the fact COA for the property located at 501 Kirby Street. Any additional discussion? If not, all in favor, please say I. I.
And opposed. Excellent. Thank you very much. And again, sir, thank you for your service. You're welcome. Okay. Uh, moving on to item B under new business. This is HPB25-27,
a property located at 417 North Third Street. It is a request for a COA for various improvements. The owners are Sean Francis Helmer and Shannon Elaine Lumbert Helmer. Let's begin with city staff.
Yes. Good afternoon, Chair Van Rinsburg and board members. My name is Ryan Nichols, planner with the city of Palaca. The applicants who are the property owners are requesting a certificate of appropriateness for improvements at the residence and property located in the city of Palaca
North Historic District. Per section 54-78 of the city code, a certificate of appropriateness is required to erect, construct, or alter a structure or sign located or to be located in a historic district.
A two and a half story single family dwelling exists on the property along with an unroved 26x7 foot by 29 ft concrete structure in the rear of the property. The Florida master site file has the house constructed between 1884
and 1886 and states that the house is a fine example of a welldetailed frame vernacular residence. The Florida master state file notes that the earlier previous owners included
Robert and Mary Reed, Edgar and Kate Dunny, Margaret Anderson, and Oliver Aaron. As referenced in the Florida Master Site file, this house is located in a neighborhood of other large frame dwelling built along Third Street during
the last quarter of the 19th century. Figure one and two in the staff report show a survey of 417 North Third Street, a location map and street and a Google Street View image for the proposed improvements. The Helmers are proposing to remove or
replace most of the existing windows on the first and second floors of the house. Uh the applicants are also proposing to remove doors and replace another door that is currently damaged. A detailed list of existing windows and doors has been provided by the
applicants and is attached to the staff report. Uh the applicants have provided the manufacturer and specifications for the windows and doors proposed and uh that should be the Colby ultra series.
regarding the proposed demolitions, uh, staircase, storage area, and a concrete structure. So, there's an existing metal staircase, and there's an existing storage area located on the outside rear of the house. Uh, the Helmers are willing to remove these features or proposing to
remove these features, which appeared not to be part of the original construction of the house. The applicants will repair any wood siding needed after its removal to blend with the home. There's an existing 774
square foot concrete structure located on the northeast corner of the property. The structure is 1 to 2.2 ft from the side and rear property lines and has vegetation along its top. The Helmers are proposing to demolish the structure since it will not serve a function or
have a utilitarian need at their residence. The Helmers are proposing to replace the existing metal roof with a dark colored roof. The existing metal roof on the house is in good condition. However, uh the property owners prefer the
aesthetics of a dark colored metal roof. An example uh of this dark color metal roof currently exist in Palaca's North and South Historic District. The applicants are also proposing to change the exterior paint color of the house to either sea serpent or real
force brands of the Sherland Williams Company. Most trim work around windows and doors will be either white or black dark colored. And I think we actually have a a board here that we can show.
that better depicts the color if need be. So in conclusion, the Helmers are proposing to remove and replace windows and doors. Uh these improvements provide the preferred effects to the home. Also proposed are the removals of an outdoor
rear staircase and storage area along with an unroof concrete block structure that does not serve a utilitarian purpose. The applicants are proposing to change the exterior paint color of the house to either sea serpent or gale force. In addition, the applicants are
proposing to change the metal roof to a dark color roof, which examples can be found in both the north and south historic districts. The applicants believe the proposal keeps within the existing character of the property as well as makes the home more efficient.
And I have Paka's newest property owners and residents here uh to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen. At this time, do we have uh questions for city staff? I I have a question. Um when you say uh
replace all the windows and first and second floors and the doors, that's in the existing holes that are there when you remove the old ones and nothing is going to be changed as far as the sizing. That correct? Um yes. Most of the windows and doors
will be either removed or replaced. Um, right now I think there is a bit of a mismatch. I think there are maybe two or three different styles of windows that are currently exist. Um, on the first both the first and second floor towards
the rear of the property, I think there are some windows that the property owners would like to remove altogether. Um there are sort of like the smaller sized windows uh which there are photos uh attached
in the back of the board. Um the doors for example I think uh they're they're also going to be uh either removed or replaced with the Kobe series. Um, I think they're going to in
one case put in a sliding glass door in the kitchen area or what would be the will be the kitchen area. Uh, and I think they're going to replace uh one set of French doors with another set of French doors. So, there would be there would be a a
replacement of a now existing window to a sliding door in the kitchen area. And then there's you said back windows like this top one that's a little like about this big
that would be eliminated or Hey Karen, can we go to page that is page uh 17 in what you've given us? Yes, page 17. It's Yeah, it's the same uh same uh one
that you have for the sliding glass doors. But Michael, that's what I'm assuming you. I'm not assuming. I can read it. But at the top of that side of the building, there's a little skinny window at the top. And I didn't know if that was one of the ones you were mentioning a few minutes ago when you
were saying smaller windows in the back. Yeah, I think perhaps page 16 is a better better illustration of the smaller window. Yes, that's what I thought. Yes. um at the top there uh that window will be removed on both
the first and second floor. In fact, that whole that whole side will be uh a solid wall. So both those windows would be removed and the uh window on the back structure
there which you have circled would be turned into a sliding glass door. That's what you have written here. replace with sliding glass door. No, I think 17 on 17. Yes, 17 would be a sliding glass door. Yes. Yes. Yes, ma'am.
Okay. Thank you. I just needed to understand a few of these things. Thank you. Sure. I have a question. Um, what's the construction of the windows? What are they made out of? Um, yeah. Um, you got you got three different
types of windows in there. got some if if you would. You you you have um a couple of vinyl fixed windows that don't open, don't do anything. You got a couple of the old aluminum crank out windows and then you've got
the the the weighted sash windows. And our intention is on the weighted sash windows on the front on the original structure because there's you can see if you look at it that there's been multiple additions added to the structure since its original build. um
on on the front and again I'm from the other coast so I east west and north kind of messes me up over here but as you're as you're looking at the building the the front of the building and both sides of the original structure those
windows would be swapped out for new windows that were size on size and that were architecturally appropriate um and they would be the the KBY windows we spoke the other window that would be on the
left, both upper and lower on one of the additions or part of the additions. And there are some sash windows back there as well as the aluminum crank and and the fixed windows. We would like to eliminate them because we we want to do something on
the interior that doesn't require windows. The construction of the windows you want to put in, those are wood wooden windows. Um, she's shaking. I believe they are. Yeah. Okay. And and before we get too far gone on the whole thing, if you would please
just introduce yourself for our records and let us know your your city of residence. I know it seems redundant at this point, but I'm Sean. This is my wife Shannon. Um, we've been together since the sixth grade and he's vertically challenged since then. But we're from Palmetto,
which is Manatee County over on the other coast. Um, well, welcome to Palco. Welcome to the neighborhood. We came here a year and a half ago looking at another property. We had never been to Black or heard of Blacka, but we were looking for an older home to restore. We made an offer on the
home that they didn't accept, but that didn't discourage us. And then we ended up buying actually 10 acres out by Interlockan, which we will build on when we're ready to not climb stairs anymore and live there as well. But, uh, I fell in love with the historical district and
this home spoke to me when we came in and it's it's beautiful. the the one section that might be a little confusing, the French doors you were referring to back there. We purchased for the property out there for the build. We're building a barnaminium style home there, but we had purchased
pillow windows originally and still have them slated for that property. We have one sliding glass door that we're not going to utilize that we'd like to utilize in place of the French doors that rotted out in this current house. We've got it boarded up on the bottom
and and taped and everything. So, that's where we'd like to raise a header and put a sliding glass door that will eventually go out. We'll come visit you again with another certificate of appropriateness for a deck outside on that that area to go from the kitchen
area directly out to that deck. So, that's the slider. the area in the back where we like to eliminate the two doors and the stairs and the side windows there. That was you can if you were to come to the house, you could see that that was once upon a time a porch that I
think they closed in at some point and then added those windows. The uh original boards to the home are on the inside of that wall. So, you can see we'd like to eliminate the windows there, have a pantry downstairs for the kitchen, upstairs a laundry room.
Um Th those doors would be elim eliminated and then basically um sheetated over with with appropriate um siding and we've contacted a a cedar company
Cypress Cypress company that has siding just to make when we ready for that step. Thank you. That is something that we absolutely love to hear. Yes. Yes. We love the the home. It's absolutely beautiful. We don't want to do anything to change the aesthetics of
the home. We want to improve it. I think it's needed some love for a while and um we're excited about the opportunity. It's it's our retirement. We're getting close to retiring and this is where we've chosen to be. So, well, excellent. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. And and absolutely.
I'm sure you of course already realize the incredible historical importance of that structure. I can tell you all about it. Ryan was very good to clue me in on everything. So, and I share that with everybody I come across. They're always fascinated. So, um
I would imagine too and and you know this this is just me speaking as a a former neighbor. Um there were some very interesting details that were taken away in the Unfortunately. Yeah. If if you ever find it in your heart to to come before us and put that back, I think everybody would be
thrilled. I have the skill set to replicate that if I can get clearer pictures of exactly what that railing looked like. Exactly. You're talking about the policy. That is well within my skill set. Excellent results. That's good to know. I was going to say what what are you
doing Thursday, sir? I'm just I'm joking. We did we did paint the colors on a board for you guys to just reference for the colors a little bit more. We put white kils on. So it would show we've fallen in love with gale horse which is a little bit more of a blue as opposed
to a gray tone here. Um we'd like to change the body of the house to that and then keep everything that's currently white white on the house. The the trim um this office there. We'd like to go with a darker tone roof and the windows
we we're proposing are wood. I believe they're wood on the outside and they're double home. So they would replicate what's there now. I mean, we've got some mass. We got eight uh nine eight foot windows there to replace. So it's a costly endeavor for us, but we want to
make it energy efficient. We want to bring the home a little bit current, but still respect the age of the home. So I don't know if you guys want to get this or not, but thank you. Yes. Um did you have anything else that you would like to share with us? We we didn't really give you the opportunity.
We just threw a question out there. all new. She's she's been locked and loaded to to to give you guys a new for us. We've dealt with homeowners associations before. I've worked with homeowners associations and and we we
certainly want to respect the historical aspect of the community and uh it makes me think of tequila mocking bird here. I don't know. I love your little area. So, and we want to add to it. So, and we do have other projects that we want to come back and visit you with, but uh this is
where we'd like to start. The painting wouldn't take place until well down the road, but um um the interior is what we're working now. And we we've um got a wonderful quote from a gentleman in Crescent Heights for the roof. It would be a standing scene 24 gauge uh metal
roof. So, it would be aesthetically very beautiful. And then the windows um would be um inserted from KMF out of Ocala. They have a contracting company there with windows. Typically, just to let you know what
what we normally do when a a when we have multiple facets is we'll break it down and just go piece by fe piece. Um so just just bear with us as you know we we start going through. We might have more questions for you when the time comes. But at the moment, do we have questions initially for our new
homeowners? Miss Bivville, what will the light pattern be on the windows? There's so many different There's one over one, there's six over one. Well, current Currently, what's what's there is two over one, one over one,
three over one, plus the the none and the the the crankout windows. Um, it it's probably going to be either a two over one or a two over two dep depending on once
we really get into the weeds with with the the window manufacturer as to what they can replicate with with what's what their ability to replicate actually is. But it's it's going to be as as as close to what's there as as as the
manufacturer can make it, which I think we referenced in the pictures. Um, and I think it's more of a two over one as what we we saw there just to allow for a little bit more of a view out. I I love the multi-panes on
the right hand side of the house, but that's impossible to replicate through with those size windows any longer. But um the the sliding glass door that we're proposing to to um put in is there's a kind of a a picture of it, but it is the
same thing where it has at the top of that window with a grid pattern. Uh won't be seen by anybody in the street, but if anybody comes over for dinner, they would see it. But um it's the same type of grid pattern that we'd like to to replace. The French doors we're the
front door we're keeping and then the door directly on top of it, it has two arches. We we like that door as well. Um just for insulation and also for sound and everything. The French wind trench doors that are up on the second floor that come off the master bedroom there
or the primary bedroom is um multiple windows panes there. Now, I would like to have something that would blend with the other windows as well, which I think I put in an example of that as well. By the way, your your packet was a a delight. Thank you so much.
Thank you. I had more, but he's cut a lot out already. But he said, "We're going to start here and we'll go from here." But but anyway, thank you. I appreciate that. And I'll gladly come over and take out the front doors and transplace that. Oh, I believe the front door was Oh, front door is not enough. But I did
find somebody. There's some damage on the stained glass, but I found a a wonderful gentleman who um actually it's from St. Augustine that will come and take the window and repair it. So, we're looking to do that. Pat Bronson put those doors in. I'm sorry. Into the microphone.
I'm sorry. Pat Bronson who owned the property. She put those doors in probably about 20 years ago. Yes. It wasn't the original door because I think there was a transom window in a photo that I had seen from one of the original doors. But yes, I like these doors very much and that caught our
attention as we first went into the home. So, excellent. Thank you. Do we have other questions for the property owners? If not, um I see we have some adjacent property owners. Let's go ahead and open up to couple Well, I have to I'll get fired. So, let's go let's go ahead and
open up to public comment. Yeah, if if you would come on up. Not that we don't know who you are, but name and uh general geographic location. 20 Madison Street. We're your new neighbor. Sorry.
To the right hand side. And u No, I'm just very happy because that that house has um even before I live where I live now, uh I I would always feel sorry for that house. So, it's good
to know it's going to be loved and taken care of and uh it will be a benefit to the whole community. So, thank you for doing that. Thank you, Miss Mir. And uh for the record, Madam City Clerk Helen Mir. Thank you. Um seeing no other public
comments, let's go ahead and close those down. Um discussion amongst the board. Um as I mentioned, we typically take these items one at a time. My my suggestion if you agree is to make number one the windows and doors. Number two, the metal staircase um shed
structure and um amphitheater in the backyard. Uh number three would be the roof. And number four would be painting of the house. Does that sound like a logical way to progress? All right, let's talk windows and doors.
I'm feeling fairly confident. I like the the two over one. I like the fact that that according to what I read in the packet, um, you know, you won't really be able to see the window for the trim on the outside. Um, but it will protect and and give more energy efficiency, but it won't change the look.
Um, we don't typically take into account things that cannot be seen from the road. So, I don't believe that future projects that come with COAs, by the way, thank you for coming to us for a COA so we didn't have to find you. um you know that that is not really within our purview. If we can't see it, it's
not much to do with us in a lot of circumstances. Um I in in my opinion kind of saying the same thing that Miss Mir said, this home has need TLC for so many years. It's just lovely to see a
nice couple coming to give it some. when we're discussing the windows, can we also discuss the removal because there's going to be removal of these windows and stuff too. So, that's fun part in all of it, too.
The only only I I don't have problem with the windows. Um, I'd like to hear what other people have to say about the removal of windows and I would like to hear what other people on the board have to say about the slider glass doors.
Miss Pierce, um, I do love the packet. Again, Miss Elizabeth said, "Thank you for all the detail. That's very handy." um looking at the sliding door at first as opposed to it, but it is on the very
back side of the house. It's not going to be seen from the road. It does have you do have the characteristic of the elements there to keep with the house. Um I'm not necessarily opposed to it. I do like the
um the character you're bringing back into it. And like it was mentioned before, as long as the windows are removed and you're not putting in a larger window though than what is currently there or putting a smaller window that is currently there.
Honestly, I'm There's also removal of not having any where there were. Yeah. And it's like I said before, it's in the very back of the house. It's not like they're doing it to the very front of the house where it's changing the curb appeal. I mean, it's I mean, right now, technically, they
have a crank window. I mean, that definitely is not period correct. It needs to be removed and sightings put back. I I agree with that, but I am not opposed to it. I I like the I like the plans. I like the layout. Um, we do I have a
historical home as well, and energy efficiency is Miss Pierce is another neighbor of yours. I'm on the other side. I'm on I'm a few I'm kind of a block around. But um and again, this house has needed some some love for a very long time and I'm
glad that it's finally getting that love. But I am not opposed to any of it. Um that that is not a question for me. That is a question for uh city staff. Miss F. In this package, is this this is this the slider that we're talking about? The
French slider? Um no. Slider. Thought it was in the beginning. This a lot. So I wasn't page six. Page six. So I'm on 42. That won't work.
Oh, it here it is. Page six. It's page 37 or your packet of page. Okay. 37. Okay. Thank you. Oh, okay. It It's black framed.
It's It's attractive. Yes, I I I do like that. It doesn't look like a slider. I like All right. Do we have any more uh thoughts, observations about windows and doors? If not, where would we like to go?
I would like to go ahead and make a motion to proceed um with what is presented to remove and replace um the doors and windows. Thank you, Miss Pierce. Do we have a second? I'll second it and also add the fact
that they're going to be the dark color that you chose. Correct. Yes. I'll second. Excellent. We have a first and a second. Any more discussion? If not, all in favor? I I and opposed. Excellent. Uh moving on to item number two, that was the removal of
the exterior metal staircase. Also the removal of um a storage area that came with underneath the staircase and the removal of the uh remnants of the detached building uh which was possibly a garage, but at this point is pretty
much a topiary. Um do we have any discussion on that? Sorry. You don't want have a future CLI coming in front of you for a small car for a couple of
Mini Coopers. So, Gotcha. This this probably is a no-brainer, but any discussion on that. If not, we're looking for a way to move forward. I will go ahead and make a motion to remove the back staircase, exterior staircase, and
the accompany the Yes. shed shell thing and the detached. Yeah, a detached I guess it's a just detached structure as pres I don't know what that is but yeah to remove the staircase and the detached structure.
Thank you, Miss Beers. Miss Vote, you seem poised. Yeah, I'll second the removal of the staircase, the cement building that's underneath that little piece there. And then the structure in the backyard that is made of cement, too. I've seen it before.
Yes. Thank you very much. We have a first, a second. Any more discussion? Excellent. All in favor, please say I. I and opposed. All right. Moving on to um item three, which is the replacement of a existing metal roof with another
metal roof only darker in color. Uh thoughts and observations. I'm going to beat you this time, Brianna, and I'll I will not a competition, ladies. No, no. I'm just She had her hand resting on it like it was a buzzer. And if someone would
please give Miss Pavil and Mr. Kister a chance here. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead. I will make the fun to to approve the to take the existing metal roof off, put on another one of like in the new color that you like. I forget it was a
gale or it's not going to be is it going to roof going to be gale force or uh that that would be the paint black or a dark bronzy color. All right, I move I make that motion to do that. Thank you. So, we have a motion to go ahead and approve uh the new slightly
darker metal roof. Do we have a second? I'll second. That was quick of you, Miss Pavil. Thank you very much. We have a motion and a second. Any other discussion? If not, all in favor, please say I. I. And opposed. Excellent. Uh, moving on to last but not least, the um painting of
the house. Um the only thing that I would like to to say on this note is the the the color is very pretty but um we'll be discussing color here coming up in a moment but for now um what we have asked historically is that the color be
from a historical color palette and it I'm wondering if um that might behoove us to ask you if there's a similar historic color from the Sherwin Williams pattern pattern um swatch
that is close to what you're doing. And I would defer to city staff to to ask you if I'm I'm reaching for something I may not have. Well, as you know, we don't have a color palette to choose from. So, we're going to be discussing your workshop. I I
So, at this point, you know, whatever color they choose. Okay. But what I'm And yes, I absolutely did notice the additional 400 pages in my packet, right? Um, but in the past his historically what we've said is just make sure they're
historic colors from the color palette. But if if if you're telling me all bets are off, then I would say I think the colors are lovely and I'd like to hear from the other board members. I don't have a problem with the color. The only thing
that I have a problem with is that we're trying to get some structure and that's why we're having the uh meeting afterwards to try to work off of something and stay with that so it doesn't look like we're you know oh yeah we like it today and next week we may
say no you know and and I agree wholeheartedly because this is something that we all have felt that we've needed. Um, however, even though the homeowners, I believe, said the painting would not be for a while, I still don't feel that if they come to us before we have a color palette, we can
tell them to wait until after we have a color palette. Um, so I'm just kind of looking for direction. And, uh, Miss West, if you could chime in. I concur with the planning director. Okay. At the moment, there is no pallet. That's correct. Okay. Well, in that case, it should be a fairly simple uh,
decision. Who would like to move us forward? If there is no pallet, then there is no pallet and we received that direction from Mr. Agamo as well as our city attorney, Miss West. So, it would behoove us to postpone. I don't see that we can postpone based
on a future decision that has not been made at the time that they put their application in good faith. Would you like to make a motion to approve the colors? I'd like to make a motion to approve the colors. Do we have a second?
I'm not sure what the alternate would be. All right. So, hearing that there is no I should be out of line. I know he's made motion. Who would uh for for purposes of discussion, we actually need a second for the motion. Are you willing to make a second or no?
Okay. So, let let me kind of walk you through here. I can't make the same motion again, right? So, for purposes of discussion, you have to have a second in order to proceed. That's all that a second does. It doesn't mean that you agree with it.
It's just for purposes of discussion. So, you have the only actual viable legal motion on the table. I suggest someone second it. Thank you for that clarification, Miss West. Is there a second? I'll go ahead and second.
Thank you, Miss Pierce. We have a motion and a second to approve paint colors based on the fact that indeed we have no tape pallet. Any further board discussion? If not, are you comfortable with just a
all in favor, please say I or would you like the madam city clerk to to call the role? Okay. In that case, all in favor, please say I. I. And opposed. Excellent. I think we're all wrapped up. Have a great day.
Come on up if you would. Um, yeah, if you would go ahead and just make sure your microphone is on so all of those hundreds of people listening at the moment are not missing anything. I did Google colors of Victorian homes and dark blue was a color that was utilized during uh the Victorian era.
There are a few homes in the community that are darker blue. Um we we are leaning towards the galpor is the color we'd like to do. It's got a in the sunshine which this house gets full sun west sun in the afternoon. I think it would just glow. It be really pretty. So
I think it's appropriate for the Victorian homes. Um, that's that's my take and thank you very much for everything. We didn't know what to expect and it's it's been positive. So, thank you. Well, excellent. Thank you. Um, ladies
and gentlemen, we do have a workshop scheduled right behind this. Um, may I make a suggestion that we just take a 10-minute break so facilities can be Excellent. It is 4:44. Let's meet back at 4:55. Now we're back. Um let's go ahead and
address our workshop on um the discussion of a historical color palette for our historic districts. Um I'll get started. I'd like to begin by saying um I'd like to begin by saying thank you very much to city staff for such an
amazingly comprehensive um and huge packet giving us uh four separate separate illustrations from um four neighboring cities um St. Augustine, Dane, Palm Coast and Gainesville. Um it was a lot to get through but I felt that
it was invaluable um in looking through everything. Um I I felt that the St. Augustine section was extremely comprehensive. Obviously we would disregard things that were applicable to you know too much before the the Civil War. Um certainly we never
had a first Spanish period or if we did nobody painted anything. Um I also kind of right off the bat discounted Palm Coast as being really too new a community to to be comparable with what we have. Um I personally was very very
impressed with what the uh city of Gainesville did. That's that's really really nice. Yeah. And then um a little less impressed but but impressed nonetheless. Um it wasn't a bless your heart moment. Um impressed nonetheless uh with with what Dand did um over in Monroe. Um so
based on that to to me Gainesville and Dand were were kind of the winners. Um what what were other people's thoughts if we poured through all this and killed a couple of rainforests? Yeah, we haven't really is is this something that
Apologies, but we're going to do board discussion. Does this say strictly here or is this is this something that we can have a copy of or or not? Yeah. The cops will provide to you. So this is for me. Yes.
Yeah. for the board, you know, to review, discuss it. You know what I mean? Yes. I could take it out and then return. I can return it. I just want to go look at it. Well, and I should ask um just the binder. That's all we She needs
back the binder. I just need the binder. Not not the document. You can keep the doc. The document. But but having said that, let me just um I I believe that the idea is that we we make a re recommendation moving forward
today. Are you in a position to make a recommendation if you have not had a chance to um Yes. Yes, I can because I I visit all these cities all the time. Um has everyone else had a chance to
review and and think deep thoughts and all of that sort of thing? I'm impressed. Okay. Well, again, um we're it it Yeah, it is impressive. Um but you know that
the idea is that we we we don't recreate the entire wheel in order to make our recommendation. We take the the hard work that other cities that are close to us and are similar have done and um and you know, we kind of piggyback on them and save a lot of a lot of work. Um, if no one
has a specific opinion, um, I believe our alternate alternate member, Miss Rosa, would like to come and address us. Thank you. Um, it I just wanted to point out that if we're actually going to get down to the nitty-gritty of like looking
at callers, it might be better with a smaller group of people. And that's what a suggestion I'd like to make rather than have the entire board and then have that just the same way that we actually did the
pamphlet. The idea was talked about. It left this committee. Two people I believe from the committee took it and worked on it, brought it back. We talked about it and it happened. I just think it would be easier. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Rosa.
this vote. I would not be okay with that. No, I But thank you for your suggestion. We didn't need it the way it came out. I would like the whole board to do it. And and apologies, but that kind of led
back to my are we are we in a position to make some sort of a recommendation today if if at least one of us has not really had time to adequately review the material. Right. So, this is a workshop, right? That's what was called at the last meeting and this has been publicly
noticed as a workshop. You cannot make any decisions, any action at a workshop. This the point of this, excuse me, is to discuss the material before you and then when you reconvene, you can have it uh you ask staff to have it placed on the
agenda for an actual decision. If after workshopping it today, you find that you, you know, you're still requiring more time, you can schedule another workshop. You can workshop this to death if you want to, but you can't make any
action decisions today. Can apologies. Um, can we make re recommendations of what we want to see in the next packet? more or less like we like like Miss Elizabeth said, things that were pre- Civil War really don't
apply to us. So, we could have those sections taken out because it doesn't I mean, I honestly don't think there's any houses older than that. Sure. I mean, you can have another workshop or you can simply discuss what is relevant here today and and have a
meaningful discussion. Since this was specially called for workshop, I I suggest you make good use of this opportunity to I think this is like our first like get down to it workshop to where we look at things and are able to discuss
them. I mean so I'm new to this part of it. Yeah. I I had wanted workshop um and started with color because that's what we came up the last meeting. Um I would like to have more workshops on
everything so that we are all on the same page and our ordin our city see if there's any ordinances that we need to work with with the attorney in reference to because city ordinance don't always in my opinion and people could disagree
don't fit for a historic district. Okay. So, and those are some of my concerns that I would like to see if we could like tune this up, make it better. Let me walk you through what would happen. Um, the the next time you reconvene as a board and you want to make a motion to
have, you know, certain criteria from like say city of the Dillian incorporated into our code, we would be tasked with drafting it. Exactly. It would be under the section of historic preservation board within the code and then you would actually have teeth,
right? Because if a color is painted on a certain house that doesn't meet the criteria that you've explained, we can issue a code violation for that. Okay. The longer that you wait and workshop, the more opportunities you're going to have with applicants coming here like
today that are seeking to change the color. And you will not be able to say no from a legal standpoint until you actually have this codified in a code. The ordinance requires two readings. Okay? So, your recommendation is going to go to the city commission. They're
the only ones that get to make the ordinances. So, they're going to have to approve of your recommendation. Then there will be a first reading and then a second reading and then it becomes adopted into the code. So you you're a couple steps away. The longer you wait,
you will not be able to enforce your criteria on I guess I'm want some teeth. In addition to that, you know, I'm a little bit concerned about the fact that we do not have a pilot today and we're going to be adopting one that could be
construed to be restrictive in light of 180. I don't know whether we're going to be I don't think so, but it's something that we need to think about where we're going to be precluded or we be going to be subject, you know, to some sort of I'm sorry. In light of 180, there was a bill that was passed this
last legislative session, Senate Bill 180, which basically preempts local governments from adopting restrictive land use regulations. Whatever you have today, you cannot be more restrictive. Restrictive. Yeah. There is a class
action lawsuit that was just filed this week. Um, and there there is a a real effort to have a a glitch bill this upcoming legislative session to fix that very ownorous bill.
But the director's right. My my my question my question to you in that to understand better is I don't think that we're trying to adopt things that are not in in other cities
in normal historic neighborhoods criteras like paint colors structures like for like all of that is always not always but in in all the historic district. So in that particular case, is
that what you're It doesn't seem like it's the same thing to me. I'm not going to say, okay, you know, no, it will definitely be considered more restrictive. Pardon me. It would definitely be considered more restrictive than what we have now. You could have Well, because we don't have any too much of anything right now,
right? Any additional we don't really have a historic district right now. They can come with any color like today and because we don't have any stamp. However, in the future, someone might come. Let's say that we do pass a pallet called of colors in our historic
district and someone is affected. So, well, you adopted something is much more restrictive and you're not consistent with the statute. Okay. So, we're subject to, you know, if if I understood correctly, things that we have done in the past, what what have been our benchmarks are not going
away. Right. Exactly. Because it is something quote new, right? You could be more liberal, you know, in your standards, regulations according to this bill, but now more restricted. You could be less but not more. Yeah. Because before you couldn't have metal
ships. Yeah. Basically, what this bill is is taking away the, you know, the local government authority, you know, to to control growth and and development. But I don't before we couldn't have metal garages and then now we can. So that's on the
liberal side of what you're saying. But those don't really go with historic neighborhoods because that is not, you know, the usual. But I'm sorry. I just want to get this thing out. It's bothering me because it's not a question about the merit.
Picking colors from historic charts that are kind of standard is not uh you know like what you're saying being restrictive. No, it is. Well, how tell me how. So somebody could paint their house purple with with polka
dots and that's okay. You are restricting the color palette that they currently are able to In other words, if if we had made this decision a year ago, it would have already been established and we wouldn't have had to worry about it. Um but but here we sit now and a law has
just passed which ties our hands to some extent. Now it may be overturned or it may not. We don't really know, right? Um but at at the moment it is the law right now. At the moment it is the law. And you know frankly um
if it has always been um the unspoken rule, well it not unspoken, the spoken rule. when someone brings you a historical paint color and they want to use that historical paint color in a historic district,
the offices that that you currently are in have said it has to be part of the historic color pallet. So to me that is the the backup. I can't see how we could all We don't have a pallet. That's a
Well, we did years ago when I was here. We we have I've been here 30 years in all three districts and we had that Sherwin Williams pallet. So is it codified? No. Right. And Lorenzo asked a very good question. Is it codified? It is not in
your code. Okay. So neither neither is the requirement for wooden sheds. It's not in the code. That may have been what was always done and what you're used to, but unless it's in the code, we can't enforce it. But we don't have anything in the code for historic. What do we have?
No, you do. You have an entire section called the historic districts. It doesn't have a lot of teeth in it, but you do have it in the code. Now, my advice to you in terms of moving forward in light of SB80 is is to move forward. Okay? We don't know what's going to
happen with the lawsuit and the upcoming legislative session. What you're embarking on now is going to take time over the course of months, quite frankly. So I I would suggest you at least engage in in what you decided to workshop here today which is the paint colors and move forward in the process
and we'll deal with it on the tail. Okay. On that note too and I agree. Could we have a copy of what our code is that we're we can work under on the historic because I absolutely it's available online. I know but I I I would like a copy of
it. I I just don't um I'm you know I need to see it. You need a tangible copy. Yes. I want to see it. Well, okay. We can provide a copy to you, email to you. That way I understand what what is and what is.
There's a whole section in the code that relates to historic preservation for the responsibility to your duties, you know, and it's real it's real liquid. And then the certificate of you know what is what is the certificate what are the standards
it's all in the code. Yeah, because it always says, you know, under the uh interior department of interior and stuff and it's all very liquid the language. There's no Well, it it Yeah, that's what what I'm saying. It's
Well, that back to the task at hand. Um I I noticed in in reading the packet that uh the deand color scheme seemed to mostly relate to it central business tour. um that seemed to be predominantly where they were focusing their their
time and energy, whereas the um Gainesville component seemed to cover all levels of of age, architecture, um etc., etc. So, just again as a
as a thought on where I was leaning Are we looking to just like take one um one area like let's say we choose Gainesville because they seem to be the closest to us. Is that what what the board's looking like just for one or two
or what? How? Well, according to what Miss West told us and she is absolutely bang on as usual. Um today we're just chatting about it. Um the the thing that that is is just I mean
concerning to me is even if we even if we said well hey let let's take a closer look at what Gainesville is doing. It's it's a couple hundred pages. Um, I just don't know that
we're prepared to keep city staff here half a night while we read through a couple hundred pages. Well, I have to say um, well, we can absolutely plan another workshop and we can use our time wisely to on our own time. Yeah.
Go through and really understand. say um looking through the game, it has a lot of other components in here that don't just pertain to paint. There's also the history layout of the city. So, I mean, there's
a lot of stuff in here that really not talking about today that we're not workshopping about today. We're still going through it, though. I'm trying to find because we're really looking more for like y'all were saying teeth on
paint colors like something that we can refer them to. And also we've also said in the past if they had a paint sample of a color they like they could bring it to us and see if there's one on the historic palette that's similar to it and that would be a good starting ground. And I don't think that would be
tight restrictions. But um well well again it what what I'm hearing is while that might have been what was done it was not actually codified in any way that this is what we do. Yeah. So therefore it's basically null and void at this point. Is that correct
West? Yeah. I have it like myself. Again, what what I'm getting what I'm getting out of this is just because suggesting that homeowners bring us a color from a historical pallet that says, you know, HC historical color,
even though it was something we might have done in the past, it was never put into how we do business. Therefore, it no longer exists. Looking at code on page 451
information from the city of that says the tribe. So the reliance on justified as easily One sentenc something to think about. You know, we're workshopping decisions, but that's
how easy you can make it. And I'm okay with easy. I just want something. In the past, it's always been go to Sheron Williams and make sure it's on historic chart. I have to say I do like the breakdown that St. Augustine has where they have it
to that time period. I do like that because I mean what happened like in the 1840s the colors were one way but what happened later on I mean I think it keeps more to the charact characteristics of the um homes
period in which it was built. I do like that because you can go down there and get a color palette from the 1920s. It might be pink. Well, that might not have been the historically correct color for that time period the house was built. Well, which of course gets into the the
problems that we've already faced over the years, which is that that Victorian interior color, but you want to paint the exterior of your home is still a historic color. Um Yeah. And the different arrows, too. Yeah. And I I like I said like they
actually have it marked. This is the body. And then as you go through it, I do like that they even said that even though it was not on the palette that they had suggested, which now I've lost my page, but it said at the top white was a commonly used color and can be
used. Even though it wasn't on their palette, it said that those colors were also mentioned. I do like how they have that in addition to the color palette. Um, but I do like I do like the breakdown and then that would be more your house was built between this period
and this period. These are our suggestions kind of thing instead of just by by period correct to the time the house was built because we do have cement houses, block houses and stuff like that that would they could have a color that's
goes with that period of time and and it's historical. Exactly. Because I mean we have grand Victorian ones. I mean, we do have very nice Victoria homes, right? But that doesn't mean we want to use the Key West palette, even though that's a historical palette. Key West, we're not tropical. We're
agreeing state. Agreed. I think we need to have it more for that house. The house was filled in an ex time frame. This is what we're suggesting for that house. And I did look in here. There is a broad spectrum
on some of these. 1840 to 1870. I mean, that's a pretty big areas and that gives a lot of options. I mean, you have an um 1870 to 1890. I mean, that's broad spectrum and they really don't change much between the two, but at least this gives kind of
an idea of a starting point, I guess, is I mean I I I do like the um like I said, I like the St. Augustine. We are close to them, but they are very Spanish and their color scheme. But then
Gainesville is a little bit closer to a little bit more the inland kind of structure is what we have here. So I I do like the Could that statement be something like that we suggest you use the word suggest that you use
the Sherwin William pallet or whatever just for words? No, because that has no teeth. Yeah, I think I want to have I want teeth. Okay. I was just trying to work within the lines. Okay. All right. Shall or may use
Yeah, I was just trying loosen up a little bit. If we adopt the colors for the historic districts, somebody has a color on their house that's not in the ballot, do they get in trouble? No, grandfather.
It would be anything brought to us from this point forward. Correct. Correct. Yeah. No, we can't rewrite the rewrite history. So, just retroactive application. He done the best. Okay.
I lived in the village of Coopertown and the whole village was considered historic. And one doctor wanted to paint this house a certain color. The village gave him a hard time. He fought it in court and
won. And to really emphasize his annoyance, he painted it was a multi-sided house. Pink, purple, bright green, bright yellow. Just a, you know, you can't you
must not make suggestions to people. You know, I was going to say no one's come up with that idea yet, Mr. Hollister. So, other places though, there are loud colors. Yeah. like in ter Colorado, you know, if you're going to put a new structure, it has to be uh rusted.
Actually, has to be the color rusted. Well, let me ask this. Um might the thing to do um moving forward um because as you said, we can workshop this again is to look at two cities.
My thought would be St. and Gainesville. give them a real deep dive in the next month and then come back with a lot more information, a lot more questions, a lot more thoughts except for what page
was that? God, I lost my place again. I haven't found my post. I mean, does that make sense? Yeah. And yes, I mean we do have their information and basically if it doesn't pertain to paint,
we don't need it, right? Yeah. Don't don't looking at this like height, roof forms. I mean, yeah, just paint. I think we can eliminate a few trees. I mean, but right now, I think we need to focus on the paint colors, the paint colors to the period. And like Miss
Elizabeth said, let's keep it focused more on Gainesville and St. Augustine because though those are our closest cities with major historical areas. Well, and getting back together at the November meeting to workshop some more now that we've, you know, narrowed it
down and we really know what we're talking about to me makes a lot more sense. Yeah. And is it possible we could have the information just a little sooner because Well, I guess if it's I guess if it's going to be condensed, we're probably okay. Yeah. Well, I believe we already have the information.
Yes. I know you had said dive more into those areas, but I mean just what we have. They've printed everything, I believe. Oh, okay. Yeah. I don't believe we're missing a thing. If anything, we have too much information. Yeah. Um well, you have
sometimes you have a point. Yeah. I'm going to have question for staff. Can they keep the binders if they're workshop text? Yeah, you definitely keep those binders if you because we're going to workshop. return it when you're done with the workshop.
That would be great. I'm just sitting like Sorry. I'm just sitting here thinking like, how in the world I'm going to get this out to the hard lord to you. Please don't let it be Wendy or I'll be chasing papers down the street. What about what about this information from the meeting because the commissioners don't use them
anymore. Okay. Uh Mr. Rosa, you had something for us. Would you mind just the microphone? Thank you very much. Thank you. I wanted to follow up on something that Brianna said, which I think is critically important
about when you do this, there are certain colors that are okay for trim, but not for the whole house. And I I think you pointed out that that needs to also be done
and I don't think it'll be difficult. The only other thing I had to say is that since we're doing this, do we want to give people a choice of Sheran Williams and Benjamin Moore? Because Benjamin Moore, I don't know that we can limit to what
paint company you use. What you basically do is you take the the Sherwin Williams watch and you can take it to pretty much any paint company you want and you say match. Yeah, I know that. But I'm saying that the Benjamin Moore colors um because of what I used to do for a
living obviously I was a Benjamin Moore international account. I know how much I don't and I used to work for Shan Williams so I know them both. Um, and I'm just thinking as an option, you might want to
look at the colors from both. And then as a tossup, use both. Use some of each if you want to get that severely into what's the color going to be. I don't know. But I do know compared to Sherwin Williams, Benjamin Moore has done more
research on historic color. Um, so that's just what I know. Thanks. Thank you. I just have a statement though. If you look at the St. Augustine historic colors, they actually do Benmore and Sherwin Williams. Yes. So,
you know, they're interchangeable. They are. All right. What is the pleasure of the board? Um, do we want to have a much closer look at the St. Augustine and Gainesville information and then uh get back together at the November meeting?
Yes. As I said, we focused on Gainesville St. Augustine. Um, eliminate the other information that's given to us since it does not pertain to paint and and let's present it at the next board and that will give us all time to really
digest. Yes. And I think I think I think that is fair enough. Do we need to do anything? Motion. Okay. So, just so I have some clarity here for the clerk, you want another workshop or you want this agenda on your next board meeting so you can make a decision?
I would say the agenda. Okay. Yeah. I I want to go ahead and get this taken care of because I fear that if we prolong it any further, we may have consequences. Okay. Thank you. I concur. I do. All right. U moving on to other
business. Um, anything? No. Moving on to board member comments. Um, I just had one. I just wanted to um note that I was dropped off a um packet um by by Diane Taylor with
regard to um the Episcopal Church um St. Mary's um facility down on St. John's Avenue. They they're interested in trying to get some sort of a historical designation for it. Um, I brought the paperwork to the city and um, uh, staff again is absolutely wonderful. They're
they're looking into uh, what part we may play as a historical board in assisting in this and um, it sounds as though this is something that that we might even be addressing on next month's agenda. Yes. So, just just letting everybody know um, what's going on there. How about staff comments?
No comments. No comments. No comments. I'll I'll only share that for those of you who knew Shan Puritin, um she worked extensively over at the community garden by the waterworks facility and she got
the waterworks facility to have the designation as a national historic place. She went to Tallahassee with a lot of the other gardeners. It was actually an extremely cool experience. So, if if you are able to get to that point with this particular um St. Mary's
Church. I would strongly encourage you to go to Tallahassee to the Division of Historic Resources. It's it's just a very cool experience and immerse yourself into the history up there. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you. And you know, I felt as well that it was information that that was
worth us knowing. Um anyway, I guess I'm looking for a motion to adjurnn. I guess yeah, motion. Thank you. We are adjourned. All right. Awesome.