All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's go ahead and call to order the Historic Preservation Board meeting of January 8th, 2026. All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's call to order the Historic Preservation Board meeting for January 8th, 2026.
It is 4 p.m. and we will begin by our invocation by Chaplain Malbury, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States of America, led by board member Mary Jane Rosa. Please stand. Good evening everyone. Father, we give
you thanks and praise again for this day. We thank you for how good you've been. We thank you for bringing us to a new year. God, we thank you many challenges you brought us through and we look to you again to take us further. We pray God that you will bless this uh
historic board as they uh continue to do the business of the city. God, we pray that you will give wisdom to uh those councilmans that they uh and women that they may seek you, God, for directions
in all their decisions. We thank you again for what you're doing, God. Even now, we pray, Lord, for our city that you will help us to be mindful of our civility as an adult. We might guide our young people
in such a way, God, that would turn them to you. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. >> Amen. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. And thank you so much, Chaplain Malbury. May we move on to the roll call, please, Mr. Romero. Sir, absolutely. Elizabeth Van Ransmmer
>> here. >> Rihanna Pierce >> here. >> Megan Beville >> here. >> Patty Vo >> present. >> Tim Jefferson absent for the record. Christopher Hollister absent for the record. Mary Jane Rosa
>> present. >> We have Cro. >> Thank you sir. Moving on to our meeting purpose disclosure. The purpose of the historical preservation board is to steward the architecture of properties in our city's historic districts by
applying the guidelines of the secretary of the interior standards for historic preservation. Moving then on to the appeals procedure and expartai communications. Let's begin with the appeals procedure. Any person wishing to appeal any decision made by
the Historic Preservation Board with respect to any matter considered at such meeting will need a record of the proceedings and for such purpose may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made at the applicant's expense which records
I love this. It it doesn't that sentence has just never made sense. which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based which is indeed Florida statute 286.105 105. Moving on to exparti communications.
Anything that we wish to share, ladies? All right. Then we'll move on to item two of our agenda. And by the way, uh just for the record, we have a time constraint this afternoon. We need to be wrapped up and out of here. So, um the city commission can follow us.
Approval of minutes for the December 4th, 2025 minutes. Were there any corrections that were not given prior? If not, I'm looking for a motion to approve. >> I'll make the motion. >> Thank you, Miss Pierce.
>> Second. Thank you, Miss Vote. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> And opposed. Excellent. The minutes of our December 4th, 2025 meeting are approved. Let's go ahead and open up to public comments. Well, we we don't see any, but we do see
some cute faces in the audience. So, let's go ahead and close public comments and we move on to item four on our agenda, which is new business. Item A, case [clears throat] HPB 2538, request for a certificate of appropriateness to demolish the chimney.
The address is 120 Kirkland Avenue in Palaca. The parcel ID number is long, ends in 41. The applicant is Warren Barry and let's get started with Miss Brown. Yes, ma'am. >> Good afternoon, everybody. Happy New Year on our first meeting this year.
[laughter] This is a request to obtain a certificate of appropriateness for the de demolition of an exterior chimney on the single family home of the property. The parcel is located at 120 Kirkland Street in the South Historic District.
The applicant is the owner, Mr. Warrenberry. Photographs illustrate where the chimney is located and the condition that it is in. It cannot be determined if the chimney is original or was added at a later date. The Florida
master site file says a frame vernacular residence constructed between 1892 and 1897. Style influences are Victorian with steep gables in a regular plan. Also, the house is well masked and cited to
con contribute to the historic district. The entire Florida master site file is included in your agenda packet. That is all of my presentation if you had any questions for me. And the applicant is also here if you would like to hear from him. Thank you. Ladies, do
we have questions for city staff at this point? If not, um let's meet Mr. Barry, if you could please come forward and um give us your name and city of residence for the record. >> Okay. Hi, I'm Warren Barry. I'm the
owner at 120 Kirkland Street. Currently, I'm living at 5418 Shore Drive in St. Augustine while I'm doing the renovation over there. So, I've been approved once for the whole exterior and then I realized I need to add this to it. Um, so currently the chimney is like not
attached to the house. the siding all runs behind it. So, you can tell it wasn't original. It's not how they used to build them back then. And um also I met uh Mr. Larry Beaton at the first approval meeting who was kind of giving me the whole history of the actual house. It was built in 1894 as a duplex.
So, it had two chimney chases originally that were terracotta on the roof, not the brick one on the side. So, I don't have like the year the brick one was put on. I know they did a remodel in the 60s and I believe in the '9s also. Um, but it's not attached in any way. There's no
chimney, no fireplace inside. There's no venting to the inside. It was just all, you know, frame with a chimney. I mean, the siding, the chimney is kind of floating there as you see in the picture where there's that gap running all the way up. Um, so yeah, I would like to
remove this thing before it becomes like more of a safety issue and comes down. I don't want to rebuild something on the outside of all that siding. Um, so that's what I'm looking for is permission to remove that and then fix all the wood rot that's behind it and finish the exterior up since I'm kind of
midway through it there. I don't know if you guys have been by there yet, but it's it's coming along. It's been a slow battle, but it's getting there. The inside's looking good, too. So, >> well, let me be the first one to welcome you to the city of Blackath. >> I personally and and I think Miss Bil
can also agree that anybody that moves over from St. Augustine [clears throat] probably should be trusted. >> Ladies, do we have uh questions initially for Mr. Barry or should we go ahead and open up to public comment? >> I have questions. >> Yes, ma'am. Miss V.
>> Um are you said if I understood you correctly that there's no fireplace inside or never was? >> No. >> Was the property gutted like it was all the way down where there's no drywall or plaster where you could see that? >> No. When I bought it, um they had a
little gas fireplace in the corner of the living room on the opposite side of the house. So on the left side's the chase. The right hand middle had this little gas fireplace. Um no chase or anything. It was just burning into the air. Um we took all the drywall off the walls in there and there was nothing
where the chase is at all. There's no penetration. I have a picture of it actually. >> Yes. So there's no evidence that there was a fireplace in the in the property at all. >> Not anything you could tell from. And you can tell the old work there from the 1890s from the stuff that was done in
the 60s and 90s cuz it was done at much better quality. Like that stuff was built a lot better back then. They wouldn't have built that chase along the outside of the siding the siding tuck between it would have been >> done with the >> You have no plan to putting in a chimney or I mean any kind of fireplace or nothing? No interest in that?
>> No, I don't think so. >> Okay. Thank you. >> If I if I may just want to add something to notice. Um, I'm looking at the the survey of the house. I don't know what the date of the survey is, but clearly in the survey doesn't show the chimney being on the side of the the house.
>> Uh, if it was, it would have shown in the survey, >> right? >> So, that's what we have here. You just added that, you know, to >> How old is that survey? I didn't >> is in your package. >> Okay. Are you referring to the master >> almost the last thing?
>> Okay. the original master site file or the revised master site file or the survey at the back of the pack. No, I'm >> I'm talking about the survey itself. >> Certainly just clarification. If >> you can see if you can see there if you see that that was just drew in.
>> Yeah, I drew that on here. >> So, you know, clearly you know the the chimney was not there. I don't know the date of this survey though. One of the things that um that that struck me and and I'm expecting it also
struck Miss Vote was that if it was indeed on the first master site file um and then again on the revise that would make that chimney which it was at least and I mean I gasped to say this but the 80s about 45 years ago which would
almost make it historic in its own right. >> Yeah. when he said the 60s, I was like, "Wow, it's >> 2020." >> But you know what? If we don't have any other questions just currently for the homeowner, let's go ahead and open up to I'm sorry, Miss Rosa.
>> Thank you. >> Are you certain? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I don't want to shut you down. I'll hear about it later. [laughter] >> Okay. Let's just go ahead and quickly open up to public comment. Seeing none, we move on. And yes, ma'am, please. Your
thoughts are certainly relevant. >> Um, I just wanted to make a comment about if you look at the masonry, it's very clear that a professional mason did not make this chimney. >> Yeah. There's no brick ties. Yeah. >> Which is something you would see. >> Yeah. Because a professional mason would
never have done this. I mean, this is, can I use the word Mickey Mouse? Yes. This is a Mickey Mouse chimney. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> That's all I have to say. >> Thank you, Miss Rosa. Other comments, Miss Beville. Of course.
>> So, I have a shim. My house is 1875 and it has a very similar exterior to be made. >> So, you know, I'm not sure that we can say when it was built, but I think it's much older than this even the 60s.
>> The chimney on your house, you'd believe. >> No, the honors. It's it's the similar construction. It goes through the roof line. >> Uh Mr. Beaton told me mine was built in 1894 >> as a duplex originally and then some point like we don't know all the dates of all the different remodels that have happened, but some point they turned it
to single family and some point they had a kitchen on the back of it and there was a fire at some point also. We learned that also opened up some drywall. So, >> but it it does look close to original if not a hundred years old, right?
Well, you you've also enacted the Holy Grail, which is Larry Beaten. Um, >> you made a lot of stuff. Impressive. >> And still does. Still does. Matter of fact, if anyone has time to uh go and visit him, I know he'd appreciate that. Um, what other questions do we have for
Mr. Barry? Are we ready to move forward? Would we like to uh speak with city staff again? Where are we at, ladies? Wow, everybody jump in at once. Um, I I'm I'm kind of with Miss Beville in
that it it indeed it looked to me like it was original to the structure. Um, again, I I I do feel that if it was included in the 1980s master site files, um, it is nearly historic, um, nearly
antique, which is something that I hate to say about myself, but it is a fact. Um, however, if there is nothing on the inside of the house that would warrant the fact that it was ever an acting fireplace, it it kind of along with Mr. Beaton's comments um backs up what
you're saying. So ladies, does that move us forward at all? Miss Pivl, >> a lot of times they were cold chimneys, so they would not have had a fireplace. They would have just had a flu. >> So like a wood burning type fireplace.
>> Well, back in the day, they were coal, but >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you mean. >> So I've had those in my homes. >> Thank you, ma'am. All right. Where are we at, ladies? Structurally to me it is uh
and I I I certainly cannot lend my motion, but I mean I I can always lend my opinion. I I feel like looking at the property, it's having the the fireplace there to me intrinsically makes a difference as to
the historic nature of the property. It just to me um whether or not it actually is uh makes it look older and more apparently historic. Um, however, that's, you know, just an
observation on my part. >> Come on, ladies. We don't need the guys here to move us forward. What are we thinking? Other questions for the homeowner? >> Let me ask >> now. Is where the chimney is located. Is it a single floor single or is this a
twotory right here? cuz I did see that what it was one and a half stories. >> Yeah, the chimney runs all the way up uh all the way up right there. >> Okay. So, in that top section before it gets to the roof, is there a room there or is that >> Now, was there any evidence there that
there was a chimney or even a circle where there would have been a flute going into that? >> No, I don't have anything there and I got pictures from when the drywall came down. There's not a there's nothing that you can see where it was ever active. That that room up there was actually
added at some point also because it was just an attic space before since it was conventional framed. It was you had wide open attic without trusses. So at some point they built that in and the stairs that lead up to it. I don't believe that was original either. Okay. >> The upstairs portion of the house.
>> Mr. Barry, you've mentioned photographs. Maybe we have a >> Yeah, just a little more. >> Yeah, sorry. I got um if I walk it up to and show you. >> Uh Miss West, how do you want to do
this? >> Come on up. >> That's that wall there along the fireplace. looking out to the bathroom. That's the wall there. >> So, where's the chimney located on that wall? >> Right about there. You see where the
native stud is in there? >> Sorry. >> So, where this >> Yeah, right in this area right here. Those weren't I didn't have those studs or somebody put that at some point. But
>> And do you have any other photos or is upstairs? Thank you for assisting us with this. By the way, >> our our goal here is to do the right thing with historic property. So, the more knowledge the better. >> Yeah. It's going to show you the second story
with that on that. The stairs that were in there, we tore them all out, rebuilt into code because they were >> not legal at the moment. But I believe the whole upstairs was added after the fact as you can see through that. >> Okay.
>> Once we pulled the ceiling out, we saw that that wasn't >> Do you have any pictures of where with the wall with the fireplace? >> Yeah, that's that's the wall right there. That's the whole wall. There's no >> So the fireplace. >> That's what I was trying to figure.
Right. Ladies, what do we think? >> Well, I wonder what their heat source would have been. >> These little gas heaters were around the house. Um, when I bought it back when it was built, what would have been their source of heat? Because
>> from what Larry thought this year, I left him a voicemail to see if he had any like pictures of this. There was tooth chases on the top that were terracotta that would be older style. I don't know if they maybe bended stuff up and out. I would think um like Miss Belesville said there would have a like
a wood burning or pole burning one that would just go up and out. You wouldn't have a giant chase with it. So really >> had micro sorry >> I've done several houses and the one I own now had terracotta chases but they were wood burning originally. >> Yes.
>> And I've done them back to just gas. So >> that's kind of what I understood different is the terracotta is the old wasn't a thing they were doing at this point in time. I mean the terracotta was just on the top of the chair. >> Yes. Yes. Exactly. That's what you said. Said there was two though because it was a duplex. I guess each side had their own
>> heat source. >> Okay. Um my my other question is is there anything on this chimney that is deplorable? I mean is it falling apart? Is it or is it pretty sound? >> It's No, we have a big gap where it's
pulled from the house. >> Just pulled from the house. But I'm talking about actually the chimney. I mean if there was I mean, and same thing Miss Elizabeth said, it it would take away from the character of the house because
90% of the old houses have chimneys. I mean, >> right. >> Um, but I mean, anything on the actual chimney, is it any is it sound? Is the chimney sound? Like, are there bricks falling off? Are there chunks missing? Are >> there chunks missing? You can see where it's where it's pulled back is the issue
because there was no like brick ties like an actual m that they would have a brick fiber where it can't >> pull away. It's just kind of floating that 25 ft plus there like so that gap obviously wasn't always there. It was grouted up to the siding. So that has
grown. You know how much and how soon? I don't know. I've only had it. >> It's also full of mortar >> which I'm looking at which is why I said I don't think a professional mason would do that. I mean, it looks like a
homeowner special to me. >> Yeah. And and moving forward, the brick won't disintegrate, but the mortar will. So, if you're having a problem with it coming away from the house, there's no way really to stop that given
that it's that way. >> Much appreciated. >> Thank you. >> And thank you, Miss Rosa. Right. Do we have some clarification moving forward, ladies? The only thing that I have to offer is is um for me,
um I've seen similar chimneys. There's one over here on Third Street that the chimney looks exactly the same and they're restoring the house. I understand that, you know, it it could be an expense and so on and so forth,
but this for me is a historic preservation board, which means to preserve the history of the house. And that doesn't just mean when it was built in 1897. It means all the years that it has
been existing. And if you go back, let's say like you said, 60, that's still 86 years ago if that was done. And yeah, which is a long time. It's old. So for me, I'm having difficulty. I want to say
yes, do it for you. But for me, I'm having difficulty with the fact that I want to preserve as much of the historic things on the houses as possible. So, anybody else can speak or make I'm not
making a motion. I'm just making how I feel. >> Picture showed there. You mind if I bring that up to >> please? [clears throat] Where it's actually broken completely. >> If you don't mind, can you kind of walk
around with that? >> Thanks. I assume maybe that breaking maybe the weight's pushing down but [snorts] >> I'm not general contractor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If you could thank you just kind
of continue around so we can look >> it's old >> and just >> Yeah. >> Thank you for showing. Okay. >> Thank you, Mr. Barry. >> All right, ladies. Um, yes, ma'am. >> I'm not sure if I'm overstepping my
bounds on the board. So, there are braces that you can put around chimneys to the house to secure them so that they're still visually viable. >> You are not overstepping. Um, you came
to us as part of a long-standing restoration company. Your input is always valued. Thank you, Miss Pivville. Ladies, where are we heading with this? And I'm not pushing, but we do have a bit of a time constraint.
>> Bear in mind, I don't make motions. >> Or >> technically, you can pass the gavl in order to make the motion. >> Yes, ma'am. But I would rather I'm passing the gavl to co-chairman, Miss Pierce. I would like to make a
motion to decline this COA. >> Is there a second? >> Any further discussion? >> All right. Do we need to do a roll call or
>> call the RO? All right, from the top. Elizabeth Vanber. >> Yes. >> Brianna Pierce, >> yes. >> Mega Beams, >> yes. >> Patty Vo, >> yes.
>> Mary Jane Rosa, >> no. That's four to one. >> All right. Thank you. Um, please be advised that you can appeal us and city staff will give you the all the information about how to do that. Um,
but also just so you know, we don't like to say no, but our job is historic preservation and we take it incredibly seriously because one of the things that that happens is if we sway from our job
and we make a recommendation for one homeowner, then the other homeowners pile up behind them and say, "Well, you let the berries do it. Why can't we?" and we just have to be very very cognizant of a slippery slope when it comes to our historic properties, but it
is well within your rights to appeal us. And at this point, it sounds like a terrible thing to say, but truly, truly, truly from the entire board, welcome. I mean, we'd love to have you here. Looks like you're doing an amazing job. And if you're interested, we have a Christmas tour of homes. We'd love to have you
involved. Um, would it make any difference if I were able to get some pictures from Larry with some information showing the two original terracottas and not that one? >> I I don't believe uh and this is a a staff question. I believe that the procedure is to go to the city
commission and argue that at that point what what we said was an error. >> Okay. >> All right. called. >> We always feel so bad doing that, don't we? We always do.
>> Um, okay. Um, moving on to other business. Um, of course, I believe that would bring back up our historic uh color palette and Miss, did you wish to guide us on that? >> Sure. So, uh, to move this along because
it keeps getting rolled over to next month, I took the liberty of drafting a proposed ordinance that basically would adopt the color palette that you finally decided on, which I believe was St. Augustine. So, that would be essentially
attached as an exhibit, but you need to make the the actual selection from what was provided to you by U. Renee because I believe there were examples in the St. Augustine color palette that were not applicable to Palaca because they
predate PALA's existence. So, it's on you to pick which color palette schemes you're actually going to use so we can attach that to this proposed ordinance. And then also, I don't know if you had time to review the ordinance, but we can
go through it a little bit now if you'd like. And if you have any questions or comments, um, we can proceed with those. >> Personally, I think that whoever put the ordinance together did an amazing job. Uh, to me, it covered all the Well,
you're welcome. I thought it might be. Uh, to me, it covered all the bases that needed to be covered. Um, I believe that and and please correct me if I'm wrong, ladies, but what the board said was quite simply if there were um dates that
were in the St. Augustine color palette that predated homes that are in existence. Obviously, we would not use those. The rest we felt confident in adopting. >> Am I correct? >> So, what date are we going back to then?
The establishment of the city of Palao or the first structure in Palaca. And what date would that be? >> Well, we are at a at at this stage very little is pre-ivil war. Correct. From what I understand, there's only
very few. I don't know if they're actually within our historical district that these um pre-Ivil War homes exist, but I would say at least the um the establishment of Palaca, which is 1854,
1853. I'm trying to remember exactly which one it is, but I would say from the establishment of Palaka moving forward, >> which actually makes a lot of sense, Miss Pierce, because what if someone moving forward was to do a bit of digging into a property and say, "Wait, this is a lot older than what we thought."
>> Mhm. I'm honestly I'm rattling my brain trying to think if there's any that are maybe one or two maybe that haven't been torn down, unfortunately. >> Okay. It's within the discretion of this board of when you want to establish
that. It it would make sense if it was tied to some rational >> to an actual date kind of. >> Well, I will make the motion that we establish it from the establishment of Palaka. Um >> Okay.
>> And I'll second the motion. >> Thank you. We have a motion by Miss Pierce, seconded by Miss Vote. Any discussion? If not, all in favor, please say I. >> I. >> And opposed. I'm sorry. Is that from the corporation of the city? >> Yeah. A
>> I'm sorry. I don't know the exact date off my It was April 12. >> And >> it was just like it was like just like yesterday. I mean >> 1853. >> 1853. >> That's pretty good. Brianna I was
pulling from the archives. Oh, >> well she is >> quite renowned in circles historic. >> Okay. So, um does that change anything for anyone as far as our vote is concerned? Okay. If not,
um we did say at our last meeting that we wanted to speak to Miss West regarding some code enforcement questions. However, um it appears that the board member who wanted to specifically ask questions is not here with us today. And
again, um, in order to move us down the line, um, I vote that if that board member would continue to have questions, Miss West of course would be at our disposal and it could be timed out at a subsequent meeting. Does anyone have a problem with that?
Not a problem, a challenge, an issue. Are we all okay with that? >> Okay. Um, I made a quick note and >> wait, we we do have our code enforcement officer who's in charge of the historic
districts uh here to answer any questions that you may have related to code enforcement. Is Mr. Bart sitting in the back there >> except I don't think anyone knows what the questions are that the other board members might have had. >> I did have I guess
a question or I guess a I need clarification. My only thing is I understand that they have a certain amount of time with code enforcement to get these projects completed. Are they being followed up or
>> Yes, ma'am. You're you're referring back to like a COA. >> Yeah. For the ones that are Yes, ma'am. >> coming in because of issues, >> right? So what'll happen is if there if they um have a violations for doing something prior to a COA, they come in and get authorization for COA after the
fact, we still even though you guys give them the COA, >> we still hold them to a timeline so they don't just draw it out. So example being say if you have your siding is rot is is rotten wood from an AC unit dropping water down and it's all rotted.
>> You get a COA to replace that and let's say at the same time you get a COA to do something else and something else. three different items. Well, we still check up on those items. Like we'll go back like once a month and see say, "Oh, the wood's still rotten. It's still going away." So, after a certain amount of time, we'll take them to a second
hearing. Reference those issues even though y'all issued a COA. That's on y'all. But they still didn't um complete what the code enforcement asked them to do, which was fix the rotted wood that's on the house. Even though yes, we understand the COAs doesn't have a
expiration date, that doesn't give them the reason to drag it out as long as they can. We still have to go back. We do enforce them. And if they that's the issue. If they had five different things they came to y'all for, but they only got like two of them done. We still take them to the magistrate hearing because
those ones aren't done. And maybe light a little fire saying, "Hey, yeah, you do have a COA, but there is times on getting the stuff fixed because it is still it's still getting issues. is still an eyesore and still needs to be corrected. So, >> so, so they they are they do have time frames. They have to have them completed
and they are being followed up to make sure those are being completed. Yes, ma'am. >> Yes. But those only what there is after the fact COA. >> Okay. >> It doesn't address the COAs that you you approve. >> Okay. So >> that we don't have a follow-up
>> and that one doesn't have because I know there was at one time we had a um resident come before us and they asked to do XYZ and we said okay that sounds great but could you have it done I mean don't extend it out. I mean it wasn't something that had a time frame but we didn't want it to linger on and have
this bad taste form right >> in our historic district but I don't know if they ever completed it. So those aren't being followed up if they're >> now if it is a code enforcement issue. Yes, we will follow up and they will have to comply >> that we're asking them to do. So
basically is there kind of goes out >> checking the balance on COAs? >> Yeah, we don't >> no >> we don't go and check you know all the COAs that we've been granted by this board or by staff to to inspect you know and make sure that these have been completed.
>> Okay. I'm not even sure that we have the authority to to enforce that. >> Well, if if a COA does not expire, then I can't see that that there would be authority. >> Do I mean are there COAs that do have expiration dates or are they just kind
of >> not to my knowledge? >> No. >> Is there >> Once they pull a building permit, they have >> Well, yeah, a building permit. Yeah. something. >> I mean, >> but if not,
>> so is um I guess I go back to my question previously that I've had in other meetings. Is there a way we can ask them to come back and show progress reports? >> Well, or no, >> you know, other cities, it it just depends where you are, do have a
expiration date on their COAs. like uh Jacksonville I believe is either six months or one year. >> Um so that's something that you can consider doing uh instead of having it just exist in perpetuity. >> Would that fall into an ordinance again
like doing something? >> Okay. >> And once again we have to deal with that it might become more restrictive on what we can do as opposed to less restrictive. But I don't think that that should hold us back. I don't I don't
think so either. >> Well, ladies, >> like like Miss Elizabeth said, I mean, I kind of like a check and balance. I mean, >> do we need Well, I I mean, what do I what do we need to do to >> I think the the same thing that we did with the the historic paint pallet,
>> the the only thing that an expiration date would do is require the applicant to come back before you again. You don't have a code enforcement mechanism associated with the COAs unless of course they directly violate the code.
>> But is that something we could ask? I mean to or at least have them just come back and present their completed project within x amount of months. She's not talking about code enforcement strictly COA COA before the fact
>> they want to >> I don't know they want to paint their house >> and we say okay yes you can paint it from this color palette that we've now approved but then it doesn't get painted for four years. So is there a way that we can say hey >> well that would be when code enforcement
would step back in and say not >> no >> well if the paint was flaking etc. But if it's if it's a house, okay, if it is a residence, they're bringing it before us. They want to paint their house. There's nothing wrong with the house. They just purchased it. They don't like
it yellow. They want it green, whatever. That they come before us and they're like, "We really want to paint it." Well, can we say, "Okay, well, you have 12 months to complete the project and then come back to us next year and just present your completion."
>> What about if they don't want to? It could be that an applicant, you know, get the COA but then decides not to do it. Maybe they don't have the money to do it and they're just not going to do it. >> I don't know that we contractor to do the work in the first place. >> But I'm not sure that we are in the
position to impose. Of course to say you have to because you got a COA now you have to implement the COA. >> Yeah. Well, then in that case if they don't do it in 12 months and then suddenly >> then the COA expires. >> Yeah. Okay. So then we can expire the COA in 16 months down the road. Yeah.
Hey, I don't want to paint it green anymore. I want to paint it purple. >> Well, I think they have to come back. >> They can't do purple, but >> they will have to application. Yeah. >> So, I would like to have express >> I I would like to say something. >> Go ahead. Yes. >> Miss V. Go ahead. >> Miss Pierce, Miss Vote,
>> I think that painting it is a is not a good example. I think a good example would be they come before come before us and they want to uh put on a new porch >> or something that's structural that
doesn't necessarily have a permit but you know something like that painting if you don't want to paint your house you change your mind big deal you know it's to me it's none of my business but you know if it's structural thing it might be different >> I I think we're getting into the the nitty-gritty here and I'm Not sure that
we could get into the nitty-gritty, so to speak. So, if if we're talking about limiting the amount of time for a COA, it kind of has to be limited or not limited. We can't say but it doesn't count for paint, but it does count for a portion. >> Say all of them in general give them 12
months and if nothing is done, >> I mean, it expires and they would have to come back before us. If if that's the pleasure of the board, I'll need a motion and I'll come back at your next meeting with a draft ordinance for your review. >> All right. Um
>> can we add to this ordinance? >> No. >> Like a little section at the end. >> Totally unreed. >> Miss West writes great ordinances. Let her go. >> Let's put it in there. >> All right, ladies. >> Selective as to choose because >> you know what? Let's let's everybody
into the microphone. I want to say that I feel like just because you get a certificate of appropriateness doesn't mean you necessarily have to do the work in a certain amount of time and it should be appropriate for whatever amount of time unless you have a building permit which is a year year I
guess >> six months a year is >> um so I'm not sure that that's >> well I mean come back to is is it going to be >> right now it's not appropriate >> yeah is what the COA was granted for going to be less appropriate it in a
year. >> Probably not. Not if we're doing our job, but you are on my board. Where would you like to go, ladies? >> I I wanted to make the comment that I think that there's a lot of new there's
going to be some ordinances that I'm interested in in the future. And I think that we could be really selective as to what we decide for ordinances because I know Jane >> doesn't want to spend all her time doing >> I love it.
>> Are our you know like that like the color palette is strong and certain things are like really important >> and so maybe we could consider some of that. >> What what if they were expiration dates put on ones that are non-permitted
because permits are going to have expiration dates. they have to meet those criteria. They have to meet those inspections at a certain time. So, if we had ones that were non constructional, have um put a six-month expiration date on it, and if they don't do it, then
it's expired and they have to come back before us if they want to do something else. It's just not a here you go, take 10 years. >> The only other thing you have to consider is there's a fee for this $350 every time they come before us. then
that may encourage them to get a DT expensive. >> But does that mean that our original decision wasn't? >> I'm inclined to agree with Megan because I believe that we should face the fact that a lot of people who come here don't have a whole
lot of money to maintain these houses and it's very expensive. Um I would >> yes historical homes rather see if someone comes and they intend to work on a house rather than the situation that I have across from my house with people that own the house who don't take care
of the house and it's falling down in ruin two of them. >> All right. Well, let's not get super specific about that. Um, >> I mean, >> I think it's I think >> we need to have consideration for people
who want to be here, but they don't have unlimited funds. >> Well, and and I could, but I I won't get up on my soap box and say, don't buy a historic home unless you have tons of discretionary income and then some because there's nothing cheap about it.
Um, however, I don't see that we're really moving forward with a motion here today, ladies. Am I wrong? If so, please correct me. >> All right. >> I I just would like to say I think we need to think about it and talk about it a little bit more because I'm not really
clear on all of it right now. >> Certainly. Let's all do that. And what do you say we meet back in February? >> Okay. >> All right. In the interim, a motion to adjurnn. >> We have staff. >> I'm sorry. >> Oh, I'm so sorry. staff comments. >> Yeah,
>> I thought we did that. >> Yeah, Madam Chair, I want to introduce Nicole All. She's the new uh CRA manager for the coordinator for the city. >> Hi, Nicole. >> Welcome. Welcome to Palaca or
>> Okay. >> Oh, okay. Well, welcome to the historical board. >> Yeah. And welcome to the city. >> You guys need feel free to reach out. I brought cards before I leave. Are you in the same o office as over? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. [clears throat]
>> All right. Welcome. >> All right. Welcome. >> I I would like to make a comment that I hope all of you have noticed the phase one streetscape on oak and Laurel uh with the planting of 107 Dahoon Holl and live oaks depending on whether or not
it's under a utility line. Um, >> a big thanks to Patty for continuing to stay focused on on this particular issue. Um, and also to any members of the public that may be speaking out
there. Public works is watering on a twice weekly schedule on Tuesdays and Fridays. However, um, public works ground maintenance crew is severely limited resource-wise. So to any member of the public that has um any frontage
with these newly planted trees, if you could help us out. We don't want a bunch of dead trees, please water if you can. Um this is a community effort to uh beautify our South Historic District and it would be a huge loss if if they started dying. We're trying our best,
but we are really limited on resources. >> I I've noticed them. They're very pretty. >> I wanted to say one thing. We are watering anyway ourselves. My husband is with his little golf cart. And I >> like how she said we and then went to he. >> Yeah. Well, >> yeah. Yeah. >> I told I told him we
>> I told him to do it. >> But um one other thing just an observation. I did see them out there watering, but I see them watering the leaves and not in the hole as as much. >> Yeah, I just want I was going to say
something to you about that. >> And and I will no longer be managing that particular project. That was >> okay. They need to water in the hole. [laughter] >> Thank you. We want them to live. >> Yeah.
>> All right, ladies. Anything else? If not, let's try a motion to adjurnn again. >> I will make a motion to adjurnn. Thank you. >> I'll second it. >> Thank you. All in favor? I I >> We are adjourned.