I can't see. All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's go ahead and bring to order the historical preservation board meeting for December 4th, 2025, which I see shouldn't commence for two hours. How'd that happen? But nonetheless, we are
here and we are ready together. Let's call to order. I believe we have the invocation brought to us by Chaplain Malbury today. Is that correct? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Excellent. So, very happy to have you
with us here today, sir. Following that, we will have the pledge of allegiance led by Miss Patty Vote. Please stand. Father, it is again we say thank you for allowing us to come together. We thank you for this meeting, this session. We
pray the you would crown uh the leadership's head with wisdom, God, and uh every dealings and every circumstance and situation. We pray God that you will uh grant them the wisdom that's necessary to move forward uh in this
business. We thank you for the board members, each of them God, for their commitment to the task and the assignment. We pray continually blessing upon them throughout this day and that is to come. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.
>> Amen. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you so much.
>> If we could the uh roll call, please. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Chair Elizabeth Van Rinsburg, >> here. >> Vice Chair Brianna Pierce, >> here. >> Megan Beville. >> Patty Vote, >> present. >> Tim Jefferson,
>> present. >> Christopher Hollister, >> present. >> Mary Jane Rosa, absent for the record. We have a quorum. >> Thank you, sir. Uh let's move on to item D which is our appeals procedure. Any person wishing to appeal any decision
made by the historic preservation board with respect to any matter considered at such meeting will need a record of the proceedings and for such purpose may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made at the appellant's expense which record includes the testimony and evidence upon
which the appeal is to be based. Florida statute 285.105 105. Moving then to exparti communications from the board. Moving then to board members who happen to have a birthday today.
>> I didn't say anything you were going to. >> Uh moving on. Miss Beville, happy birthday. Also, Miss Vote, >> it's my husband's birthday. It's awesome, >> I tell you. Thank you for for being so forthright about that.
Moving on to item E, uh, which is of course our meeting purpose disclosure. The purpose of the historic preservation board is to steward the architecture of properties in our city's historic districts by applying the guidelines of the Secretary of the Interior standards
for historic preservation. We then have the approval of minutes of the November 6, 2025 meeting. >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> Thank you, Miss Vote. >> Well, I think I misspelled my name. >> Well, you should have probably called
somebody about that. We also got minutes wrong, but that's okay. >> Then I will second. >> Thank you, Miss Pierce. All right. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> And opposed. Excellent. The minutes of the November 6, 2025 meeting are
approved. Uh, moving on to public comments. These are indeed public comments, not related to agenda items. So, let's open up for public comment and see what happens. Absolutely nothing. All right, let's go ahead and close down public comments and move straight into new business. We'll
start with new business item A under four on the agenda, which is HPB25-35, a request for after the-act certificate of appropriateness for various construction at 502 North 3rd Street. The parcel ID number begins with 42 and
ends with 0040. The owners are Eric and Michelle Cernick. Thank you. Uh, the requested action is consideration of an after- the-fact certificate of appropriateness for various construction completed on the property. Please get us
started, Miss Brown. Good afternoon, everybody. This is a request to obtain an after the-act certificate of appropriateness for the exterior improvements that have already been started on the structure and at the property. They have also added proposed
improvements. The parcel is located at 502 North Third Street in the North Historic District. The applicants, Eric and Michelle Cernick, are here. Photographs in the um staff report illustrate where the construction has already been done with the replaced
siding, fence sections, and sliding glass door with proposed steps. Requested improvements consist of exterior painting, silver coating the roof, a wood and back deck with wood rails, and a concrete slab.
In the Florida master site file, it says the home was built between 1892 and 1897. The home is on the corner lot in a well- definfined historic district, and the entire Florida master site file is included in your package.
If you have any questions for me or the applicants, we are here. Thank you very much. Uh gentlemen, do we have questions for city staff at this point? I've got one. Um
it appears to me that there's already a metal roof. Thank you, Miss Pierce. Perhaps you should be in charge. Good. >> It it appears to me that there's already a metal roof on the property. Why exactly would a silver coat on a metal roof be considered anything other than
maintenance? It was part of the um after the fact that it needed to be done. It was just included in the >> Yeah. >> Mr. Cernick, please join us at the microphone if you would, sir.
>> Um >> and if you would, I'm so sorry. But >> no, the silver coat, I mean, just cuz it's showing rust. I mean, I've been up there a bunch. Uh the integrity of it is still good. The metal on it is still good. It's just I was going about, you know, taking care of everything else on
the maintenance list. And I didn't want to not add this so that we didn't have to come a bunch of times. It's not that it was, you know, not wanting to come and see everybody here and pay our fees. Uh it was just that I figured I'd lump
it all in right now just as maintenance. The silver to be maintenance. Understood completely and that that would be my take on it as well. Y metal roof >> maintenance. Yep. >> Um could I have a buyin possibly from city staff as to whether or not this
needs to be addressed separately in the application on any level? >> I believe you don't need to include in this in this review that you're doing today. That could be reviewed just by staff. if it is just a you know uh like like you said just general normal maintenance >> that that
>> that is for you by staff >> sort of my thought and and by the same token um and and I apologize but I was a neighbor of yours for many years >> um it it also strikes me that as based on the last three or four meetings that
we've had we have no opinion on paint color I take that back possibly I am parsing my applica. No, there was a paint color involved, wasn't there? >> Yes, there is. >> Yes, there is. Yeah, there is. >> So, without having a paint palette
>> agreed to, we have no >> comment whatsoever on paint color. >> So, that is something else that is not within our purview at this time. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And and thirdly, I am so sorry,
but that particular fence, it's been there for the past 20 years that I can remember. And it seems to me that it was put there originally because wasn't there a pool on the property? >> There's a pool in there. Yes. >> Okay. So, it's an 8ft fence because you have a pool.
>> It's six, but yes. >> Okay. And and once again, you're doing maintenance to an existing fence. >> Yes. >> Okay. Am I on the wrong track with this? >> You can remove that for your consideration today as well. >> So, it seems to me that that what we are
basically after is windows, siding, um, and back steps. Is that correct? >> A sliding door. >> Sliding door. Okay. So, based on that, can can we kind of regroup and see if we
have any questions for the applicant based on those parameters? Okay. Who would like to start us out? >> Do you want to go item by item or >> uh we we typically do. Why don't we start with >> sighting? Start with the sighting.
>> Yes. >> I mean from what the packet is showing they're >> I mean it is pretty much like for like I mean they are woodsiding with wood siding it um same shape. So, I
I see no problem with that. I make a motion to >> Well, you know what? Actually, before we do that, we should probably open up to public comment. >> Yes. Yeah. >> I I was kind of looking more for questions of >> No, I have I have no questions about that. That one right there is I mean, >> okay. >> Self-explanatory. >> Uh let's go ahead and open this up to
public comment. And y'all are a chatty bunch. Let's go ahead and keep going. >> Yes, ma'am. Keep going. So, um, so the next one fences off. Let's, you know what? Do you want to go ahead and do item item? Go ahead and >> Okay. So, we'll go ahead with the, um,
the sighting. I go ahead and make a motion to accept as presented, um, with the Southern Pine sighting replacing the damaged wood that's on the house. >> Thank you, Mr. Hollister. Thank you, Miss Pierce. We have a motion in a second to approve the sighting repairs.
>> All in favor, please. Oh, any discussion? All right. If not, all in favor, please say I. >> I. >> And opposed. All right. Moving on to the next part of the application, which let's go with the um >> window
>> window replacement, which is on the rear side of the property. And again, that's kind of a sticky wicket for us, guys. Now, it is a corner property, and if the fence ever came down, it would be very apparent from Olive Street.
So, what are we thinking on this? >> You're doing You're thinking replacing all the windows in the house? >> No, sir. >> Just the one side. >> The one the as far as what's in this as per question is the sliding door between
my house and Mr. Horowitz's house >> that the there was a window there >> and it was very leaky and then it ended up getting because there was a shed there that got removed and that the sliding glass door that replaced the
window that was there. That's what I am believing is in question. >> Okay. So it's not window replacement. It's >> No, sir. It's just it's that door that replaced that particular window. There was a double double hung set of windows
there. >> Okay. So, it's removal of window installation of sliding door. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Miss vote. >> My my question is about fiberglass. Is that I think in the past when we've done that it's wood, is it not?
>> Typically. Yeah. >> That particular door was is wood framed and it's wood cased. >> Okay. And it's right now it's stained like just about the color of the trim, the wood, natural wood trim in this in
this room. >> So saying fiberglass here is incorrect then. >> Yeah, it's that that door is >> okay. It says fiberglass here. So >> Okay. Well, I mean we I think I submitted
>> I did not look at what got submitted. >> Oh, it is wood. It is. Yes, ma'am. It is wood. >> Thank you. That's okay. >> All right. Where are we leading with the um replacement of a double hung window with a drawer?
>> My personal thoughts are sliding doors are not historically correct to this period of home, especially with that being on a street side. >> Street side. >> It's not. It's in the far back to where you never see it. It's on the side. >> On the side of the house next to the
neighbor's house tucked back. It's >> It's It's probably as far as that house that house is. I mean, from front corner to back corner on that side is got to be 95t long.
No, maybe 80. It's not even 80. Let me let me go one more time. 25 probably 60 feet. And that door is located at probably 45 foot back from the corner on Third
Street between that my house and Daniel Horowitz's big great big white house. >> So it is on the side street side. >> It's on the >> If you're looking at the front of the house, it's on the right. >> On the right hand side. Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. I'm just trying to There's no
visualize it. >> Yeah. I mean it's >> well and and those windows are at the top of that house >> on the opposite side. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And just point of clarification for many many years ago we were instructed by city staff don't drive by properties who
refer to your packet. So if we're a little bit confused as to what the layout is your home >> it's because we're doing the best we can. >> I almost feel like I need like Google Maps and like get a street view or something. Go. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's hard to like I like she said, it's hard to tell where this is exactly
>> just from a photo. >> No, I got you. >> Okay. Okay. >> And just as kind of a a further point of clarification, um I doubt you spend a lot of time watching our meetings on YouTube. >> But if you did, you would know that when it comes to us as an after-the-act
>> Yes. application. It It does not give us the opportunity to guide you as to what we would like to see based on the Secretary of Interior standards. So, we're we're sort of flying blind. On the one hand, we don't want to put you under, but on the other
hand, this is >> what what we're supposed to be keeping an eye on and making sure that it stays the way it needs to stay. >> Absolutely. We also tend to set precedents that we don't want to set
>> by the decisions we make. >> Yep. >> And other property owners um are super excited to come back to us and say, "Why'd you let them do it but not us?" >> So, we have to be super sure of our our decision-making process. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you for your understanding.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Ladies, gentlemen, >> I drive past it every day and it's back it's fairly noticeable. So, you know, as the song says, the needle's in and
damage is done. Right. Other opinions? I mean, I still stand by again like what Miss Lesb said, this is an after the fact. Um, but we would like to see French doors. I mean, try to stay more
period correct to the home and its integrity. But again, this is in an area that's not seen, I guess, from the road >> unless you are peeking over the fence trying to >> see it. Um,
and we really want to keep the facade of the house period. Correct. So, and that's my only concern that it's a sliding door. Right, >> Miss Vote. >> I think my concern is
the after the facts seem to be more frequent >> and with that we're starting to continually lose more and more of the historic preservation that we're supposed to be watching
after. And um it's uh for me it's just not um it's not what I would like to see. Other board members alternately would someone like to go
ahead and move us ahead with a motion of some nature >> particularly on the window door replacement. >> I would I would like to see some torque something else out and I would like to make a motion that to deny
>> the glass door after the fact. >> Right. We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you. Do we have discussion? If not, let's go ahead and do a roll call, please. >> And just to reiterate, the motion is to
deny this particular part of the application, and that is the replacement with of a window with a door. >> What's What are we going to Okay, if we deny them, it's already in. We deny it. What are we going to do? making tear it out and put something else in.
>> Well, >> I mean, you're How about this? Um, I'm good with replacing putting a window back in there because then you save me not having to put the deck and the concrete. >> Okay.
>> So, I'm with Miss, how do you say your last name? Vault. >> Vote. >> Vote. And Miss Pierce. I'm okay with that. And then what I will do, actually I I I really would love to keep the door, but if you guys are going to say
we got to switch it back, then we have to switch it back. >> So ju just to clarify, you were all right with putting the old window back in? >> No, because the it was leaking. So and I had I mean I'm a builder. >> Okay. >> Just like the Ben Rensburgs.
And I had that door. It was a very nice door, an expensive door. And I put it in quickly because I had water coming into that portion of my house. So it was like, "All right." I mean, it was an emergency situation.
It's a beautiful door. >> Understood. And thank you. Which is why I would like >> to to clarify what it was that you were offering. So you were offering and again just to make certain that that we understand based on
>> I guess my question is is if if there's two two nos to switch it back then I guess where where am I going with the door? I guess as far as being able to keep the door or going to a next step to keep the door.
>> Miss West, you looked as though you wanted to >> So I I just wanted to clarify Miss Pierce's comments. She wanted it period specific. It sounded like, and maybe I misheard, you were okay with French doors, just not the the sliding glass door variety.
>> Well, sliding yes, sliding glass doors are >> right modern. >> So, as the applicant is looking for options um in the event that you do proceed with asking them to remove this particular door, one of the options would be to
replace it with French doors as well. Yes. I'm not sure that that was communicated correctly. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. Either >> trying to make sure you guys are talking the same talk. >> Talking the same talk. Yes. >> Okay. >> So, yes. Um, period correct doors such as French doors, but if you want to put
I mean a window. I mean, if you don't want to do the deck and concrete that is suggested in the packet. >> All right. We're doing >> there's a lot of wives in here. So, yes.
>> Yes. >> Let's we'll do the door. We'll switch the door then. >> So, so what I am hearing is a motion and a second. Any further discussion? >> Wait for the motion that I made that it's
going to go back as a window. >> Actually, you're right, >> Miss West. Do we need to remotion or do we need to what do we need to do with this motion? >> So you you have a motion and a second. So you need to vote on that particular motion and then if that fails then you
make a motion that is different from the motion that just failed. >> Okay. >> All right. So we have motion in a second to go back to having a window >> to deny this. >> I make the motion to go back as a window.
That's my original motion. >> The original That's my original motion. >> I think the >> Wasn't it that you didn't like that door? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. It was to deny it and go back to the original >> to deny on the door. >> It was Yes. Correct.
>> To deny that door, >> the sliding door. >> Yes. Yes. But go ahead. Go do what you want, but I'll answer later. >> So, we have clarified. So, we have a motion and a second. We've had board discussion. Is there any more?
If not, if you are in favor of asking the applicant to go back with a window, say I. And if >> can the clerk read back the motion? Does the clerk have the motion?
>> Motion was to uh deny the glass door. Uh motion by second by yours. >> Right. So there was no >> instruction about the window. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. So based on that, if you are in favor of
just denying the door in its entirety, please say I. >> All right. >> I am. >> Okay. >> Let's do a Let's do a roll call. >> Well, you know what I mean? Please, please, if you would clarify for the 15th time,
>> read the motion back. >> Okay. So, the motion, the motion was uh to deny the glass door. Uh and it was it was just, you know, just a glass door by by vote, second by Pierce. >> All right. So, it is as simple as we
don't want a glass door. >> So, you got to go. That was the motion. >> That was the motion to deny. Just to clarify, you can make a motion that is different from that motion. For example, I move to have the
applicant replace the glass door with a French door. That's different. >> Okay. >> But you just told us that we had to vote this down before we could start over. >> You do. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, let's try it again. >> All in favor of denying the sliding
glass door? I >> I >> and opposed. >> Thank you. All right. >> I got a hypothetical question. If you don't mind, what happens if somebody replaced all the windows in their house
with vinyl and came before the board? Would we make them take out those vinyl windows and put the old ones back? Well, at the risk of sounding like a person that that takes this board and our responsibility very very seriously,
I would say that we ought to. >> Okay. >> But I think it's patently obvious that it pains us quite frankly to ask a homeowner
to retrace their steps on a project of this nature. However, it's exactly what we're charged with doing. So, I I I think that I think that it's not always easy to do the right thing.
>> Question. >> Uh, Miss Vote, I'm sorry, she was my response to you in that if if this was not an after the fact, then this wouldn't be happening. If it was before the fact, we would have been said no
glass doors so on and so forth. There would not have been the work, there would not have been the expense and what's happening right now. So I think the the thing in question is all the after uh people coming after and that causes this type of a thing when we're
trying to preserve the historic neighborhood. And the more that we keep changing those guidelines, the less value your property will have and the neighborhood and so on and so forth. That that is my opinion.
>> Thank you, M. >> People still aren't getting a message though. Sadly, >> it's it's happening more and more. More people are coming. >> Yes, >> I don't I don't know what to do about that. I'm just doing the best I can. >> I I feel like we all are. Mr. Jefferson,
sir. >> So, this sliding um partially fiberglass door has been denied. Do we need to make a motion that it the homeowner can put in a French door? >> I I believe that is the direction that
we might be heading. >> If I am not incorrect and someone would like to move us forward. >> All right. I'll make a motion to um proceed with the French doors um as presented by the applicant.
>> Thank you. We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> I'll second it. >> Thank you, Mr. Jefferson. Uh do we have discussion? If not, we have a motion and a second. All in favor, please say I. >> I.
>> And opposed? >> I. How hard would it be to make these doors? >> Um, difficult. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, they're sliding doors. >> Slide out. Whatever. >> I'm pretty crafty. I don't think I could
do that. >> I'm okay. >> All right. Moving on to the light. The last item under consideration that is a 4x7 deck with a 38 inch railing and concrete pad. Is the deck and the railing a new point
though? >> And I I believe I might have heard you say, sir, that you have the lumber on hand for that project. >> Yeah, I mean it's it'll be pressuret treated. Uh I don't think that I submitted any pictures as far as like the railing detail, but I mean the whole
thing will be pressuret treated. Uh it'll be similar to the one that's Yeah, 4x7 deck, you know, it's 38 inch rail. Uh, all pressuret treated lumber. Uh, the pad at the bottom of the stairs
will be 3x4 concrete and, uh, step off to the ground. Um, at 3 in, I mean, it'll be ground level. That's it. Pickicket, everything. I mean the ballastrudes everything will be
everything will be wooden. >> Uh the deck in itself will be just pressuret treated deck boards you know after they're dried the whole thing will get you know painted to the same color that the house will get painted. So I mean I'm not going to be doing anything
you know out of character to what the you know the nature and the you know the look of the neighborhood is. >> Thank you for that clarification. Do we have questions for the applicant on this note? >> What are our feelings?
>> I don't I don't have a problem. I don't see anything wrong with it. >> I think it's fine. I also want you to know that I lived on the north side for about 15 years >> and owned several of the houses around
there. Um, this house has in been in need for a long time >> to be fixed up >> and I do very much appreciate that >> and I'm glad you're you're doing what you're doing. So, I want you to know that. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> It's a good contributor because it's a a
big property. >> Thank you for that. >> Yep. >> Is that a motion, Miss Vote? >> Thank you. >> Do we have a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you, Miss Pierce. We have a motion and a second. Do we have discussion?
If not, all in favor of having no issues with the deck, spheres, banisters, please say I. >> I. >> And opposed. >> Excellent. Thank you very much for your time today, sir. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am.
>> Come on up. Thank you. So, um, when we were able to replace the door with a French door, do do you want us to bring back any pictures or anything or >> I I feel like that is something that staff can determine.
>> Okay. >> So, just send everything through Miss Renee. >> Yes, sir. That's fine. >> Thank you very much. Yep. >> Thank you. All right, moving on to new business.
Item B, HPB 2536. A request for a certificate of appropriateness for exterior painting and installation of a metal fence at 211 Kirkland Street. Parcel ID ID begins with a 42, ends with 0082. The owners
are here with us. They are Keith and Tina Marie Andrews. And the requested action is a consideration of a certificate of appropriateness to paint the exterior of the property and install a metal fence. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Hello everybody. We're not going to talk
about the paint. >> Let's not talk about the paint. >> All right. >> Okay. We're good with that. Thank you very much. Um, this is a request to obtain a certificate of proviness for the addition of a black steel rod iron looking 4 foot high fence around the
front of the property that will coincide with the railing of the steps to the front door. The parcel is at 211 Kirkland Street and the applicants are Keith and Tina Marie Andrews. Um, based on the information in the Florida Master site file, the description is modern. It
was constructed after the war with no specific date given. The design of the house with a brick sealed and a brick trim around it were done with sensitivity to the historic character of the district and as a result complements
it well. The entire Florida master site file is in your agenda. The applicants are here if you have any questions. >> Thank you, Miss Brown. Do we have questions for city staff? realizing we're taking paint off of the pallet.
We're basically talking about installing a 4 foot metal fence similar to many other 4 foot metal fences in the neighborhood. >> No, no questions of Miss Brown. >> Anything that you'd like to add for us?
>> If so, come on up. No, thank you for consideration and uh we're glad to improve the property and make it a contributing uh part of the neighborhood. >> Excellent. Do we have questions for the property owner?
>> If not, let's go ahead and open up to public comment. Surprise, we'll close public comment board discussion. It strikes me as a complete no-brainer. Yeah, I personally like the fence.
>> Okay, >> I like the design. >> Are we going to allow Miss Vote, Miss Pierce, to um >> I'll go ahead and make a motion to um accept the black st um steel fence as presented by the applicant. >> I'll second it. >> Thank you. And thank you.
>> For discussion, all in favor? >> I >> and opposed. Excellent. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Miss Vote. Were you about to say that's the difference between >> Yes. >> asking and telling? Yes. >> Well,
>> it does, >> you know, into the Sorry, we're in >> it keeps the the integrities of the historic districts when we do it ahead of time. >> Well, then they don't waste their money, their time, and >> quiet in the meeting.
>> Mr. >> Mr. Jefferson, I'm sorry. >> I was going to say do sit down. Go ahead. We are going >> but she she feels like after four months of putting ourselves in a self-inflicted coma over paint colors that we might be
willing to to move somewhere with this. Um >> that's okay sir. All right. So we have had um all sorts of discussion about um asking that the city of Pala consider a
historic color palette. Um this is not something that that we can demand. We can simply request. Um we've looked at Gainesville, we've looked at St. Augustine, we've looked at Dand. Um
personally, I feel that the Dand was so centered on their downtown core. It really didn't take into account the amount of different architecture that we have here in the Palaca area. Um, Gainesville I just wasn't for me. Uh, perhaps
because I'm a St. Augustine girl. My personal recommendation, which I did drop off at the city last month, was that we take the St. Augustine color palette and we make it a little more ours by not including properties that we
don't have because we didn't have a first Spanish period. >> Um, and we move that forward as a recommendation. What are everyone's thoughts? >> I feel the same. I think it's a good good selection. Yes.
>> Four months. We all agree. >> I be I'm happy that we're going to ha hopefully have something that we can refer to >> to help people ahead of time. Maybe give it to them ahead of time. >> And if they don't and they come, then
you know, >> absolutely. >> Something to refer to. Well, our our hands are no longer tied if if indeed it it passes muster, which it's going to have to do. And and of course, we've been cautioned by our city attorney that it's getting more difficult to add layers of care to historic properties,
but again, that's our job. Um, >> was that a motion you made? >> I don't make motions. >> No, they already hate me. I don't make motions. No, we'll need to see the color palette to be able to make those determinations of what colors we want to have in our color palette. Correct.
>> Well, we have had the color palette in our possession. >> Yeah, but what I'm saying is the >> we can move for that. Which are we scratching out of this? >> Basically >> lovely pal or >> mo most everything that in my estimation
would be before the civil war because what we have is >> pretty much the finite amount of properties that were built before the civil war and that's about it. >> So the motion should say that then >> well to yes no I I I would say yes to take the
city of black pardon me the city of St. Augustine color palette and make it more to what suits us as far as timelines are concerned. >> Okay. >> And by the way, before we vote on this, I should probably open it up to uh
public >> public comment. >> I was she was here. >> Yeah, I I knew you were here for here for the initial one. So, >> illegal kitchens, Florida. I really was trying not to speak. We do have at least three buildings in the North and South
Historic District that are pre-Ivil War. One in the South 18 I think 55 and then St. Mark's Church is 1854 and the Bronson House 1854. So just FYI, we do have some buildings in both districts that are pre-Ivil War and probably more that I'm not aware of. Thank you.
And you know again as as long as we are putting a recommendation out there to what we would like to have happen to me it would make sense that if it is a pre-Ivil Warhouse via paint it white. >> Can I ask a question? Of course. Um
there has been some talk about extending the historic boundaries and lines. Do we have any of those homes that are older pre Civil War >> that would be >> gonna open up that can of worms when
we're finally getting >> we're going to do it like you know what I'm saying maybe we should have it open so that in case they do decide to do that >> it would automatically be done and we wouldn't have to go back and do it all again. >> What are is everybody thoughts about
that? Perhaps if there was a motion to be made, we could say that we would like to revisit this motion assuming that at some time other historical districts are designated. >> Okay, that's good. >> If I mean, if it's appropriate,
>> Miss Kitchens, just state just Yeah. >> Yeah. Come on. >> Haven't used my three minutes yet. To the best of my knowledge, there are no other buildings in the city of Palka that are pre-Ivil War, including my house, which I think is now 1870 instead of 1876, and it's one of the oldest houses, but I don't think there's any
outside the city limits of Placa inside the city limits that are uh older than that, older than the Civil War. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And just as a point of reference, I believe your house is painted white. Yeah, it used to be it was gray and then when we moved in it was white, yellow trimmed in white and then my mother
didn't like that so we got it white trimmed in green and that's where I've kept it. >> And the Bronson house and St. Marks are white you might know. And then the Sanchez house which has just been repainted on the corner of Fourth and uh Laurel Street >> across the street from mine >> at cross and Patty's house is white. So
yeah, and I have no problem with being painted white, but I just I don't to the best of my knowledge, there's no houses in anywhere in the city of Pac and I work deeds in the city uh that are pre-Ivil War except the three I mentioned. >> Just for your information, >> my house is 1870s and it's white.
>> Mine is post Civil War and 1885 and it's white and it's always been white. >> So thank you, Miss Kitchen. >> Previous owners painted it multiolors. >> I knew she'd have that answer. >> Oh, absolutely. And and you know it is it is sad to to note that in the years that that I've sat on the historical
board I think we've gone from >> eight preivil war structures down to >> I can tell you that >> three. >> Yeah, ladies, gentlemen, where are we leaning toward this? Remember, it is a recommendation
>> and there are not that many pretty civil war colors in this palette that you'd have to I don't know who would be have the onus of getting rid of, you know. Oh, sorry. >> No, you're you're good. >> Body classic white.
>> Yeah. 1840 and 1840 to70. >> Yeah, we're we're not all kind of looking at the same information, but by the same token, we've all looked at the same information for months. So, Miss Bavville, it's your recommendation to leave the pre-1821
>> Yes. >> in there just in case. >> No, I'm saying the exact opposite. >> You're saying the exact boy, I don't seem to get this. his voted said that and he said no. >> Okay. Well, let me put it this way.
Where are we leaning? >> Seems to me we like the idea of the St. Augustine color palette. Yes. >> As opposed to Dand or Gainesville. Can we leave the dates open to the interpretation of our planning director? >> Oh, you may if you want, but I rather
you do that. Uh let me based on the let me just remind you about the process you know that we have to go through >> to to get the ballot in our code. >> We're going to have to do the text amendment to to the code. >> Yes. >> Uh to the section and >> which is why I say that it is a recommendation. >> Yeah. That would take two public
hearings from the city commission. Uh so whatever you decide to do today, you know, we probably going to have to bring you back with some specific text amendments to the code and and I don't know what you want. You're saying uh the Sago steam pallet, do you want want to
make any changes to it or do you want us just to adapt, you know, the what they adopted, you know, to to the city of Palakans? >> I can only imagine how many years of research went on went into creating the St. Augustine pallet. Mhm.
>> Um I I have never had the I've never sat on the the St. Augustine Historical Board. Um although I believe Miss Pavil, did you >> I've been in front of it. >> Oh, okay. Um but I I I just cannot fault
the amount of investigative work St. Augustine does on anything that is historical. history. >> So I have a I have a question. So we'll make a motion to
I guess be able to present this >> recommend the adoption of historical >> that we can just give a direction to staff to bring it back to you. You know in the package as for adopting with the text amendment and obviously we're going to include the pallet.
>> We have to produce a document. >> Yeah. is going to have to go into the the code. >> Up until now, we've simply been workshopping. This is the first time that we're making a move forward. >> So, if you give us a direction that that you would work with the St. Augustine,
that that's what we'll do. >> I I mean, I would like to go ahead and move forward and let's use the St. Augustine color palettes that they have in their historical parameters for ours as well. >> Okay. Excellent. So, we have a motion.
Do we have a second? >> I'll second it. >> Thank you. We have a motion and a second. Do we have additional discussion, Mr. Jefferson? No. Okay. If not, um, all in favor, please say I. >> I.
>> And opposed. >> All right. Excellent. >> Awesome. >> Um, anything else in the the way of board member comments? >> Is this is a I know we had talked Mr. Gimma. >> Yes. I'm sorry. We had talked
before about having workshops in reference to, as Miss West put it, more teeth in our decisions. And this is the first one. Um, how do we go about choosing something
else and when do we start that? >> Well, it's up to the board, you know. You >> So, we need to make a recommendation to the board. Yes. Okay. Thank you, sir. I wasn't sure >> but just keep in mind you know that there isn't the bill that was passed last year
>> I mean past legislature that we cannot adopt any regulation that are more restrictive to what we have today. >> Yes. >> So let's just keep in mind that you know when you >> and when you say what we have today are you speaking of the city of Palaca or are you speaking of >> the state of Florida?
>> The state of Florida. Okay. So that includes >> Okay. Thank you sir. because that I I think that that some of what they have adopted in other cities we don't have any of that. So I think we would still be okay in
>> restrictive then we we subject to lawsuits and and challenges. >> Yes. Well we wouldn't be any more than the standard in other places in my mind. >> Well it's not it's not regarding other places. It's regarding what what we have today not regulations.
cannot adopt regulations that are more restrictive to what we have today. >> But but you're saying this blankets the state of Florida. So So my question to you would be what are other cities that have the history that we have? >> What are their historical
>> presing historic preservation? you know, but I'm pretty sure that and I know other jurisdiction that they're they're being very very careful about adopting regulation that are more restricted. We know that there is a a proposed bill for
this county legislature that is going to amend a little bit uh that bill that is already placed. Well, what I understand now, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, we don't really have anything other than uh the uh the attorney
um secretary of interior, excuse me. And other than that, we are always just going by city ordinances, which which blankets the entire city, which is not historic. So my hope was that we could
become, you know, in the historic areas to have more guidelines, not too restrictive, but more guidelines so that you see the separation of the historic districts from just the regular homeowners and the homes in the city. Am I
>> I'm not attorney. I'm not an attorney, but I believe it is if it is just guideline and that's all we have today anyway. >> We only have guidelines. >> Right. We all have requirement. As long as it's just guideline, I think we're going to be okay. But I'm going to defer that >> but they're very open. They're very very
gray. They're very they're very gray and they're not specific. And for me, I'm speaking for myself. The neighborhoods show that >> once I keep saying the same thing, but if you took down the signs in our historic neighborhood, you wouldn't know
they were historic because of the lack of guidelines. >> Right. >> So that's what I was hoping for. Not that we're like crazy people or, you know, like you're living in a condo association or something like that, but just so that we refined it more and made
it more obvious that, oh, look at the old homes, look at all the old the colors, look at all the beautiful lamps, just everything that you would recognize that this is a beautiful historic neighborhood in Blacka. That's right. >> That's my hope. Yep. >> Well, and maybe a workshop that needs to
happen would be with our city attorney to absolutely advise us what might potentially be coming down the pike >> um as far as a state law is concerned and also to to let us know where we do and where we don't have quote teeth in enforcing what we are attempting to do
as a historical preservation board. >> Yeah. I'm just cautioning you about that. The teeth, you know, >> I'm not buying any more teeth. >> Get some teeth. It's a dangerous, you know. So, >> do do we need to make a recommendation for I don't think it would ever hurt the city attorney to
>> No, we can the next meeting. Yeah, go ahead and put on the books to discuss this next week. >> We can discuss in more detail. >> And by the way, isn't the first Thursday and >> Yeah, that's January the 1st of the year. >> No, the meeting is scheduled for uh
January 8th. >> January 8th. Okay. I'm glad you asked. >> Well, I just had a women's club board meeting this morning and it was like, "Oh, wait. Yeah, that's on the 8th and this." Okay, great. So, um, Mr. Hollister,
>> um, we we have people do, you know, we guide people to do things. Some of the stuff I drive around, I noticed isn't getting done. One thing that really hit me was the uh iron fence around that beautiful estate over in the South Historic District where they argued that
it had never been painted. That's still not painted. >> The melon. No. >> No. And there's a couple other things I've noticed that we've we've made a decision. >> Clean that. They were supposed to clean that and not paint it to hier. >> No, it No, it was painting.
>> Was it? >> Yeah. So what happens when we make a decision we give you knowirect >> we tell people what is required and they don't do it >> then it becomes a code enforcement issue >> yes I had asked that question
>> is it is it possible that well this would probably make regulations stricter which would fly in the face of what we're potentially looking at coming down the pike but I mean if there was a section of our agenda where items that
we had previously made a decision on we could be apprised of what happened. >> Yes, we could. >> That's something I had asked before if there's something that we could >> like or just a followup. >> Yeah. Kind of checking things off the
list, so to speak. >> I mean, even just ask them, hey, in two months, can you come back and just give us the presentation of what you've done? >> Yeah, we can do that. keep it away from code enforcement because I think they're pretty >> got a lot >> and that would also give people time to
be able to do these renovations and changes that we're asking and then also keep them from like somebody walking down the street going that doesn't look right let me code enforce them even though they've been >> but if they haven't comply with the CO that you approve and you gave to them
then it's a code enforcement issue they're in violation >> okay >> but but who's going behind I I don't see any other >> checking the violations talk to them but you know >> no >> they have to comply with >> right thing it's just a lot for them and I don't know how long you know
everything is set back because they have so many cases >> I mean is there something in our um codes now that gives them a time frame like >> you have x amount of days 30 days before you're in violation >> well usually >> or
>> it's 15 days Yeah, we're going to 15 days, you know, and then before we issue the notice, you know, like a >> I'm Harold with the city of black code compliance. Yes. Um, we have uh taken a new approach as far as we uh we've came from code enforcement officers to code
compliance, meaning working with the community more so. So, yes, we do give um call a friendly reminder for your first day. So, we go out to an area and we notice issues, we'll send them what's called a friendly reminder. give him 15 days to rectify the problem or contact
us, make arrangements, you know, because some people might say, "Hey, I'm out of town. I won't be back in town till such and such date." And we'll note it and then put in there and then work with people because we want compliance is our main goal. But unfortunately, if not, then after that, a notice of violation is issued. That means basically the
process starts. So you get another 15 days and then once if they don't comply or if just don't care then it's set on the books to go in front of the judge in front of a magistrate hearing. Um and like Miss Vault said we have so many cases. So I mean we have over right now
we're over 200 cases. So if I start a case today and give them 15 days, 30 days and they're up it doesn't mean come January one that they're going to go to court because we have over 200 cases ahead of them. So we have to prioritize I guess prioritize but we do >> first come first serve.
>> Exactly. And we you know there are there are different you know things like health and safety issues and hazards and stuff like that that will bump it to a priority to put it up in front. >> Uh but >> we're talking about code enforcement here. We're not talking about tracking COAs which is I believe what we're
discussing. >> Yes. That's what we're discussing. >> Oh >> sorry. >> I'm sorry. I talking about the code how the code you were talking about the code. So that's >> I want to know if there's anything in our codes in the city's codes that says once we give them the guidelines or
approve their project is there anybody going behind them to make sure they're doing the project or then does that fall on the citizens to do a code enforce there is not >> we we I think >> and also on that >> our department doesn't have the resources to do that you know to go back and start one
>> so is there some way that we can ask them to bring it back to us after 60 days to present what they've completed. >> In a lot of cases when you issue a COA, it requires some time the building permit. So we give them a time frame
that they need to pull a building on permit. What is it? One year or six months. >> I think it's one year. >> Oh jeez. >> For compliance. >> Well, I don't we don't get that much stuff with permits here. I haven't since I >> But some of them require building
permits. So >> yes. Yes, I do. But I'm just saying I I have we've had very few that I've sat on that have permits. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Those are roofs and then what I'm my understanding is the staff is >> okaying roofs now like for like
>> if there is like to like it's just maintenance. I approve those and I issue a COA. >> Yes. So that's you COA and also the chair signs >> you know the COA and we put the reasons and >> Well, that's what I'm saying. So now that you're doing that, you're verifying
that there's a COA and because you wouldn't be you wouldn't be I mean you're doing like for like which makes it a COA when you're approving it. Correct. >> Yeah. It's still a certificate. >> Yes, the same thing. It's the same thing. So that takes those permitting things off of our us those type things
that are like for like >> and and if it requires a building permit then the applicant with the COA has to present that to the county. >> Yes. >> The county will not issue the permit without that. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Agreed. >> Or larger scale projects. But you have
to admit that you know, >> any project. >> Yeah. >> Any project. >> If it requires a building permit and it is in the historic district, they need a COA. >> Well, no, I I understand that. I guess what my mind was tracking on is some
months we don't have a meeting. Some months we have one thing on the agenda. strange stranger days. We might have three items on an agenda for a COA. It just doesn't strike me as that much additional work that we could
say, "Hey, can someone please track these because we we asked the homeowner to dot dot dot?" Did they? >> And I I have a question that has to sort of do with that too. what like people that we we have one in general that we
had turned down and now nothing is being done >> and it's just sitting there and it's been I would say over a year in that case do is that would be a code enforcement thing that we would do because nothing's happening. They didn't
work with us and and it's just sitting there. >> Is that Oak Street? >> Yeah, I'm I'm thinking Oak Street. >> Me too. >> So what what is that? That is >> well I think if they have a COA issued to them and it and it from what I've gather >> they did not and we denied it
>> in the bag. They didn't even have a building permit. >> Yes. Yeah. Had nothing and now it's been well over a year. It's just been there. >> That is a codeman issue. >> Yeah. We would go and and we would respond go there and also and start the process all over again. Basically send
them a reminder. Hey, what's going on? Whatever whatever cont try I make contact with those individuals and and find out what's going on. >> So we would I would iss I would somebody would fill in a code enforcement thing then. >> Yeah. But let me let me see if I understand. So you deny COA.
>> Mhm. >> Yes. >> And and did they get it? How did they come to to you? It was they came and then we >> it was no permits on anything and then we tried to work with the gentleman over the TV set and
>> they have a daughter is a violation. >> He he got very upset and he he just said forget it. I'm not doing nothing. >> Then we we should have the case you know and look again. >> Okay. Is there any way that you can send the minutes to them of our meeting meetings and they can say, "Oh, okay.
Well, here's this, here's that." Keep an eye on it. >> We're in the same department. You know, I mean, >> code force is part of department. >> Yeah, he's overwhelmed everything. I know >> and that's why I go back again, can we ask the applicants after they come and
present it to us and we've given them the COA if they can come back and present it after x amount of days and then when they don't then we file something. I think that would be a question for Jane. Maybe that's legal. >> I think maybe Jane because nobody has an answer. So she could lead us that we
weren't being too intrusive or >> and if if Jane is willing to talk with us next month. >> Yeah. >> On the agenda and we can ask her those questions then. I I'm kind of sensing the time. >> Some projects take longer than others.
So, how do you say this construction project is going to take this long and if you run into issues request your microphone? >> You you can put a I'm sorry, >> you can put a condition, you know, in your COA, you know, given a time frame. >> Well, and and extensions as long as work
is >> being done. Yeah. >> Because I think that would help the neighborhoods as well. >> Yeah. >> Instead of seeing something just sitting there because they got us >> right. We think we're doing something up here and then we're really not doing any big. >> Yeah. Like I said, I drive past one
house where they got permission to put in a nice gate for their driveway and it's not there. >> They came for us a year ago. >> Um >> well, like I said, it's not any if it's not a violation of our code, there's not much we can do about it.
>> But it's a violation of the COA. >> If it is a case, that's the problem. Well, and it my my >> I don't know how many cases like that we have. I haven't heard any. You know, I'm first time I'm hearing this and I've been here almost two years, believe it
or not. >> Some cities are a GLC or an LCG or something or other. Are you familiar with that? >> No. >> I was at a Main Street conference and they talked about that that some cities are a designation and therefore it has more teeth.
And I forget I can find out what that is, but >> it's something that with this you apply with the state and because it's historical areas and it can apply to business districts too. So I thought I saw that that black was but
>> and it might be who knows >> I'll look again if you would Mr. Jefferson I think that would be helpful. And meanwhile um give me one moment Mr. Hollister. >> Um, as we move toward having a sit down with Miss West at our January 8th
meeting, let's go ahead and just jot down some questions that we have for her and we'll see what we can't figure out. Mr. Hollister, >> this isn't along the same lines, but has anybody seen the signs, the pedestal signs in the historic district in North.
They're covered with mold and mildew. Can the city clean those? >> I'm sorry. The signs that are in the north historic district what that tell about the houses. Yeah. They're filthy. They're they're you know just >> that signal
sign you're talking about signs out in front of properties that that give you >> even the big ones right by the corner of the the church on the opposite corner of their property covered with multiple builders. Can somebody clean those? >> It's basically soap and water. >> Yeah.
>> And it's for Yeah. They were uh we can get together any Saturday, but I can't take third and Maine. You got to do that one. >> Yeah, it doesn't take a moment to clean up, but you're right. They have f they have fallen by the wayside. I I would say if they're anyone's property, they
they might be the the CRA's property or perhaps even the old defunct neighborhood association. They've been there forever. >> Yeah, but they're cool. >> Yeah. Oh, they're great. And there's a brochure that's associated with it that if you would like the information about how to get your hands on that, I'd be happy to furnish it.
>> Excuse me. >> I wasn't at the last meeting. What's the status of the South Historic District's lamp post, gas, solar, replace, don't replace? >> Nothing happened. >> Nothing.
>> I think it's going to be probably considered by the CRA again. All right, ladies, gentlemen, anything else? >> One more thing before we have to make >> before your turn. Um, >> just to let you know that the meeting on the on January 8th is also we need to be
leaving the room at 5:00. >> Excellent. >> We're not going to have a lot of time. >> Another meeting behind us. >> Well, yeah, the city commission and and you know, see the month >> amazingly under pressure. We're sorry. I know you've been here all
day and this is the last place you want to be. I'm sorry. >> 53. That's not bad. It's my husband's birthday. He's waiting to go out to dinner, too, and I'm talking. >> There you go. >> Okay. And uh Mr. Agamo, we don't have to make a motion to ask Miss West to >> absolutely >> answer questions at the next meeting.
Excellent. In that case, I am motion to adjourn. Thank you, Mr. Hollister. >> Thank you, everybody.