That would be fine, too. >> It was just sent. I just got it. >> I sent the email um with the agenda. Did everyone receive it? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Would you like me to share it? I have it
up. >> There's actually actually I'm glad you sent it because there's a lot of links in there in case so that we have them all readily available. Um, so over the months we've we've asked for
lots of pieces of data that's from uh last year, November of last year, >> which wow, we've been doing this uh for over a year. Hold on. I'm sorry. I'm new at Google
Meets. Technology is fun. Give me one second. We have the infinity screen. >> There we go. You should be able to see it now. >> We cannot.
>> You had it. The way you're doing it before was correct. It was just the wrong years. Um but well actually let me let me just say this. So um
Deborah and and um Marcus, do you guys have the agenda that was emailed this morning? >> I do have it. Let me u one more time. I didn't have a chance to
but I do have it. Yes. >> Okay. Um >> this should be it. >> No, this says 2024, but this is the one that I got this morning. Oh, well, so let me make sure that what
I maybe when I said it to Taisha at the end of the day yesterday, I clicked on the maybe I clicked on the wrong file. >> Um, >> entirely possible at the end of the day. >> Yes, I I've just forward what you was what you gave to me last night and
that's what it was. >> Oh, yeah. Look at that. 2024. All right, let me uh let me do this again. Sorry about that. Oh, >> don't worry. So, I will stop sharing and then when I get the new All
right, this should be the right one. Do you want to email directly to me? I could put my email in the chat. Well, actually, I could. Well, I uh I mean I can, but basically I wanted everyone to have it because it has a
link to all the datas, all the various data sets that we've requested. >> I was going to share it unless you want to just pop it on your screen. >> I Yeah, I mean I can certainly share it, but uh if I share my screen, people can't click on the links. That's why I
wanted them to actually have it. Uh is Tisha, are you there? >> Yes, I'm here. I'm waiting for you to send me the email. >> You did. >> I didn't get it yet. >> Okay. >> So, as soon as I receive it, I will
share with the team. >> Thank you. All right. So, I'll just share until until everybody actually has it. I will just share my screen. And if there's a specific link, maybe we one of us could share our screen on the link or you could share your screen
after. Okay. Uh so can everybody see that now? >> Yes. >> The agenda. Okay. Great. So, you know, over the over the last few months, um, we've asked for a number of
pieces of data from the district and have gotten a lot of data. And I think part of part of what we've struggled with is there's so much data that, you know, trying to hone in on a manageable piece of data. Um, actually, you know
what? We should approve the minutes from I don't believe we uh approve September or and and on the agenda is to approve October. Um does
does everybody have Oh, we have a echo. I don't know if somebody needs to mute. Oh, there we go. Um okay. Do does everybody have the minutes or
should I uh square um share my screen? >> I just emailed it to the team. >> Okay, thank you. And uh so she just she's emailing the October minutes and everyone should previously have had the September minutes.
Um, do you all have that or should I share my screen with those? I haven't got it yet. I'm just waiting a second. I'm going to share the minutes from September so that you all don't have to
look around and try and find them. Um so if we could approve um first read and approve the September minutes and then uh do the October um and let I'm going to move it down a
little bit to where you can see everything. Motion to approve September's meeting uh minutes. >> I second that motion. >> Uh all in favor? Okay, I will stop sharing that
and see it was September. Here is the October minutes. Oops. Motion to approve October minutes. >> Second.
>> All in favor? All right. >> Okay. Great. Um, and Ta, did you get the um November agenda? >> We got it now. >> Yes, I emailed it out. >> Okay, great. Okay, so back to back to
real business. So, um, over the past few months, you know, we've asked for quite a bit of data. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. Did you say something? Um, Marcus, no.
>> No, I did not. >> Okay. I'm sorry. That must have been some background noise. Um, yeah. Go ahead, Dr. Robinson. Yes, thank you. Can we um restate the question we're trying to answer?
>> You know, that's a good Let's I'm going to bring up our minutes from our first meetings. Um let me see. That was from just about a year ago.
Here, um, I'm going to share the minutes from our first meeting, which was a year ago last month. >> I believe we kind of restated it a few meetings ago and kind of put it in
simple terms, right? And I apologize because I don't have better terms right now, but why do the be or do the best teachers get placed or tend to get placed in the more like high income
schools or in schools in high income areas, >> right? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. That's that is the it in in plain old language. Um this is the part I highlighted here is
kind of is kind of that. Um actually let me bring up the minutes from the next one. I think that would be a better the I think we fully explore that in the next one which actually is very funny. That was
Oh, no. That was the agenda. Okay. So, whatever it ends up being after you find whatever we agreed to, can we I think we just like need to put that at the top of the minutes and state it at the top of the agenda cuz I think that
what I think may not be what everybody else thinks. And if and I just need to like let it go if that's the case. so we can move forward. That's a great idea, Dr. Robinson. Okay, right there is the goal.
Can you all see that or should I make it bigger? So what we defined as our goal is to present school district leadership with strategies to ensure that students have teachers with the skills to address their students academic and emotional needs at hard to staff schools. The
recommendations will include the obstacles along with the corresponding recommended solutions. So, Dr. Robinson, is is that summary a good summary of what you think uh we are
doing or what are your thoughts? Um I think well looking at that I understand why we have some of the conversations we have. my um I was I was really focused on
policies, procedures, and practices that um allow or encourage I don't know the right verb there, but um and I would say
less prepared. I I I I don't have all my words together this morning, but teachers to be with the highest need students and or in the highest need schools. So mine are kind of was kind of along the last sentence.
>> Yes. And so but then when we look at the first sentence then I understand why we start talking about professional development and pedigogy and all those kind of things because then that can lead to the the view of let's take who's
ever there and build their skill set which was not my starting point. And that's fine. I I just that's I just need us to have what we're focusing on each time. I I think I think you're correct in that
our our goal that what we've been talking about all along is I think what we started with what you're saying is that what are the policies that that have us ending up with with less prepared teachers uh with the neediest
students. Um, you're right really that last sentence that obstacles and maybe that obstacles really should be policies and procedures. Um, >> should we switch the goal around then
and then just kind of restate it based on >> I think we can readress the goal. I mean because I think you're right because I do I I feel kind of like we've been all over the place with we want this data then we want this data then we want this data and we you know here I it was kind
of shocking to me when to realize we've been doing this for a year and and I don't feel like we've made uh any progress really. I mean obviously nothing concrete yet. We've had a lot I think a lot of really good discussions
and I and I do I agree Dr. and like it's very different if our goal is to take the teachers out of school and make them better prepared. But I don't think that was the the purpose of this committee. I think the committee the purpose of this committee is to say how is it that we're
ending up what what what policies and what procedures and what practices um or you know not even things that are in policy like obviously it's not in policy to to talk about the leadership culture or whatever but what what is it that is
systemic that makes those teachers end up at those schools and some of the better prepared student uh teachers ending up at other schools. Um so I am very immuneable to um taking this goal
and reworking it just to make that more clear and maybe and I agree Dr. Robinson that'd be a great thing to put it at the top of every agenda um to to kind of you know so that we don't
get stuck on those little um side issues. Go ahead Dr. Robson. >> So, I mean, honestly, I don't want to spend much time reworking this goal. Okay? Cuz um I mean, if you want to, I
think you can just bring it forward next month and say, "How's this for clarification?" But I don't want us to spend time now because it's just another rabbit hole to go down. But, um but this this is my thought. Um
I think that the presentation in the um main DDEC meeting today is HR is Miss Simmons is am I correct? >> Yes, you are correct. >> Okay, thank you. Um, and so maybe
right now we can try to formulate some clarifying questions that we would want to ask in in that meeting and then um and then like kind I don't know. I just
had a feeling we've been we've been circling around this for a year and um I don't and and several times people have gravitated towards
pedigogy and PD which I think is much easier than what I've been trying to figure out. And so I I just want us to move I I want us to stop talking. And so so my suggestion is
right now we talk about some clarifying questions we might want to ask whoever's presenting for HR in the 10:00 meeting so we can get those answers. Um and then maybe that'll lead us to recommendations
or something. I just want to land the plane. >> I think that's a great idea, Dr. Robinson. um because we'll have we'll have the opportunity here the Asia person right here and um so yeah so
let's um >> okay so let's start with how are teachers placed >> yes question >> yeah and I think that we've had several questions for HR kind of come up
throughout the past few months and conversation >> agreed I think Marcus said something. I didn't hear him though. >> I was agreeing with you. I was thinking the same thing, asking the same question. How are these uh how are the
teachers placed in the different schools? And maybe a follow-up question, what are the factors that lead to the placement? Um, how about this? What are the variables
that HR looks at when determining the best placement or the best match for a teacher in a school? Is that a clarification of what you were saying, Marcus? >> Um,
or fix it. I would I I would say what just just what are the um not necessarily what are the variables but what what are the well I'll just say what
what factors determine placement um because if the way I'm thinking is we want to find the consistencies versus the inconsistencies Um, >> yeah. When
it I seem to remember at one of our meetings somebody saying that uh maybe this was you, Dr. Robinson, that it used to be that um teachers would apply to the district and be placed by the district, but now teachers apply to a
certain school or something. Is that >> Yes. That's my recollection. Yes. >> And wasn't there like when we had asked this question in the past and I could be totally wrong, but please correct me.
Didn't something come up about like involuntary versus voluntary placement and like the different ways that a teacher could end up at a school versus whether it's their their decision or the district.
>> Yeah. volunteer and involuntary transfer. >> So, I'm just going to clarify just a little bit of that. So, you have to first of all be cleared by the district in order to interview at schools. And then once you're you're put
into like a pool basically a pool of teachers, instructional staff, then you put into schools to, you know, you go and you interview with um principles to be picked up at certain schools or whatever. Um then involuntary transfers
versus voluntary transfers. So say at the end of the 11-day count, right? um you're working at you were the last teacher hired on the totem pole and you might be in the district maybe two to three years, right? And they have to make cuts
because they don't have enough students, but then you might be moved to another school because they need teachers at this particular school. So that's kind of like a it's a involuntary transfer, but it's a transfer. You
understand what I mean? Voluntary transfer is at the end of the year you decide that you don't you no longer want to work. I'm I'm a teacher at Boon Beach High School. I no longer want to be at Boon Beach High School. So they open up the voluntary transfer period.
And so I put in my sheet. It's because it's just really a form. I let my principal know, hey, I'm going to be trying to volunteer transfer. Um, and then they put me on I I'm not I've never volunteer transferred, but I believe it's a list. And you start applying to
schools. You submit your form, you start applying to schools, and then you start interviewing at schools that have openings. You start attaching to jobs, and then that's voluntary. That's a voluntary transfer period. Now, as far
as teachers being placed at particular schools, that's a whole another realm of I'm not sure. Dr. Robinson and subcommittee and Sue and Marcus, I'm not sure how exactly teachers are placed,
teachers, assistant principles, cuz sometimes those things happen. And I'm not sure how that happens. I'm not sure if you get in trouble somewhere and then you're placed elsewhere. I'm not sure if you're not if you're you and maybe somebody's not getting along and they
have to move you. I'm not sure exactly how that happens. So that is a question. >> What's the term for those teach the teachers in that situation? So we can use the district language when we're talking. >> Um just I guess how how is the teacher
placed? I mean, I've known people to that have been placed, but that's because they've had issues to happen at the school. They they they've been placed because they've had something happen at the school. They've been sent to transportation until the investigation was done and
then they were placed at a different school. >> Right. So, so tell what's you at? >> You at? So those are your units of um so those are the units that you have for so you
for a certain amount of students you have your teacher your teaching units. >> Okay. So that's what you described at first. If you're the last one hired and there's not enough students you might get >> you might get moved. Right. So it's the so for the committee that it's this it's
the teachers that she described who got in trouble or whatever th that's those are the one I'm sorry >> those are the ones you're concerned about they're being placed into our lower our >> that's right >> our title one schools >> yes she that's what she's concerned
>> leftover teachers and that's not appropriate >> right but um and and I understand how I think it happens because it's the high need schools that tend to have vacancies. >> Exactly. >> So, >> so it's a it's a catch 22 cuz those are
the schools that will have openings. So, what happens is those teachers those are the schools that will have an opening. So, they'll they'll get placed in those positions. And it's not saying that those teachers aren't good teachers or
they it and sometimes they are good teachers but and then you also have a situation where am I supposed to be talking? You have a situation where the teachers are placed there and that might not be where they want to be. So they don't give their all. Right? Because now
I feel jaded. I'm I'm jaded twice. You know, I've been taken out of my where I was supposed to be. I already don't feel like I should have been taken where I'm supposed to be. And now I'm being placed somewhere where I don't want to be. And now I'm being placed where some where I don't want to be. And I could have been I might have been at Jupiter Middle
School or Doners Middle School and now I'm placed at um Howa Watkins or John F. Kennedy or you you see what I'm saying? or Palm Beach Gardens High School and these are high need schools and now I feel like I'm being punished,
>> right? >> Yeah. So, I want to just throw one more thing in and then I'll be quiet. >> But that's not a question I need y'all to ask it to me. Don't say that. Don't say Miss L said. >> Don't say what? >> I will say the committee had a question. >> I appreciate that explanation, but thank
you. So, there was a former superintendent said to me, and I don't remember the context. I we might have been talking about a teacher who had gotten in trouble. I I I really just don't remember the context, but
um he said he talked about a situations that seem to happen, I'mma call it too frequently, where there's a teacher at, you know, a typical um high-end school
or a fluent school um where there's tends to be more parental engagement and more parental eyes and observation and and he said, "Yeah, because they would not put up
with the teacher like that." Okay. And so they get pushed out and end up going to where the vacancies are. And so and so I okay so let me just I I'll
throw this as consideration to ask in a teacher in that situation what is done in terms of professional development or anything else that makes them be a better prepared teacher
at the school they're going to weren't good enough for school A now they're going to school B. What is the district doing to help them be better for the students at school B than they were for the students at school A? And that
that's too long. Please condense it. But yeah, and and it happens too much. You know, >> I was going to say that's kind of where my I wonder how often this happened. >> So I I think that that should be the first question, right? The first I think
that Dr. Robinson that that should be the first question. How often is that happening? Um because I worked at one of those schools and it didn't happen often. Like the teachers were not moved. Like it was just it fell on leadership
to try to um figure, you know, to get to to create this um happy medium between um these parents who were very involved in the school and
these teachers who just refused to um get it together. So, um, it it so, so that's the first question. How often does that happen now on in in this
in this day and age? Right. >> So, Miss Simmons, would you give us the phrase to use to describe this scenario because my my terminology is not polite. So,
>> so you >> go ahead. Um Marcus, >> I was just going to interject. Um I think it's important to note how the parents are communicating with leadership. Is it through a sack meeting? Is it through a PTSA meeting?
What what body organization are they communicating through? Or is it just a bunch of uh is it a a series of calls directly to leadership? um >> because it's definitely want to make sure that the parents have a voice, but
there are checks and balances and and I'm thinking if there's there's some kind of organized approach to how how this is being handled. Um, I guess I guess speaking speaking from a PTA perspective, um, you want to make
sure that, um, obviously you want to make sure that parents can can talk to, um, faculty and and and leadership. Um, but you don't want to be so heavy-handed that that educators can't do what do what they what they are trained and love
to do. Um, y just because just because a just because a group of parents have a certain preference on how they want to see their child educated, >> right? And so I'm I'm just going by based on my
experience as in a school that had a heavy heavy PT PTA at the time, heavy sack hand and that there were teachers that were in that school that had been in there since the
first brick was laid. Um and it it w they they it caused a lot of contention between sack the children and um these teachers and really they were all they were vetted teachers so they weren't on
those annual contracts. Um and they they stood 10 toes down about how things were going to be run in their classroom and 10 toes down about their CTA and it was heavy CTA. So a lot of those teachers
use CTA also to support their decision making. Um so when it comes to things like that, leadership plays as the liaison between PT um SAC and um the teachers. Um
leadership plays as the liaison between um individual parents and the teachers. Um there are schedule changes. Uh you you know we're not allowed leadership is not allowed to tell teachers to change
grades because of CTA contract. So there's a lot of things that you have to put into play because of that there. And now truth be told, when you leadership does things to make teachers feel uncomfortable when they feel like
their campus is um not is is at risk. you know, you they do things like they will give them the maximum amount of preps or they will, you know, things that that will make them try to make make them
want to leave. But sometimes you can't force a teacher out because of their contract. You just can't do it. You can't force them out because of their contract. But I mean, I I I went to that same school the other day and there's a man still there doing the same thing,
writing notes on the board. kids write the notes and he give them A's. Yeah. So, he's still there in the same classroom and it says I had a principal, two principles while I was there. There's a principal after me and there's a principal there now. Four principles
and then he and the and the two principles prior to that were three principles prior to he has lasted since the first brick was laid in that school and he is still there doing the same thing writing notes on the wall on the on the whiteboard. Kids sit. They're quiet. They write the notes and they get
a A and that's it. That's all he does. No one has forced him out. You can't because you can't really force him out. He's a vetted teacher. >> Understood. That's that that piece is very important to understand as far as the >> So, it's all like the CTA contract you
got. Like those are all things that go into like that HR thing. Like right now, I know a principal who has a teacher that is out on medical leave. She keeps extending it saying she can't stand and she can't walk. She can't stand or sit for long hours. She keeps putting in her
medical leave. But every time I turn around or he turns around, she is at a she's she's at football games. She posting on the internet. She outside. >> Wow. >> Like, right. >> And that's
>> holding up a a l an English position at his school. That's that's but >> um that's important to know just to have that you know under to to to appreciate all sides of of the situation.
>> Um not just not just from the uh the end user if you will as far as the student and and the family of the student but also the teachers as well as leadership. And it it obviously there's a disconnect um between the three groups and and
that's why we're um chasing out this task and using this task to get in there and find out, hey, listen, how can how can we leverage this to make it uh better for everybody, particularly especially those who who
already are starting off two, three steps behind. How can we get how can we get those students up to speed? How can we help those students excel? And and you know, just from my perspective, how can we create an environment that
supports excellence, that supports a a hardworking student that's already there, but just doesn't have the support or the network or the things that that other students have. So great. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
>> So I think that the question should be about I I don't know the professional development question I think is a great question if we um Dr. Robinson um and committee um if we know if we know exactly what we're asking. I I was kind
of trying to write down what you were saying like what professional development is provided for teachers that are moved or placed prior to movement or placement. >> That's a great question.
>> And then maybe a question about contractual I don't know what do you guys think about Hi. What do you think about I don't know because the the way that the CTA contract is set up if you are a vetted teacher and
you've been here for 30 something years teaching is the is the ironclad way to go. I'm just going to say to you like if you are a teacher and you've been here forever, it's it's stay in your teaching job. If you are a new teacher or an
administrator, like your your your contracts are annual and and it it it's written kind of it's written in such a wonky way that they can say, "Hey, you we um you're being um
fired or demoted because you're not doing your job." But they don't really have to say what you're not doing. They you're not doing your job. And it's supposed to be like paperwork behind it or whatever. But basically, you're not doing your job.
So if you are a vetted teacher, you've been in that job for 30 years, stay in that job for 30 years. It's so hard to get rid of a teacher that's been there forever. >> Hi. >> Hi, >> Dr. Robinson and then Marcus.
>> Yeah. So what I wrote down um and I open it up for tweaking is so and again I still don't have good words. So describe >> uh what h how these leftover teachers occur right and
then how often does this happen and then what is done to prepare that teacher to educate children at their new school. >> Okay. And then the second thing that I wrote was what's in the CTA contract that facilitates
um lower performing teachers going to and remaining at lower performing schools. So y'all do what you want to with them. >> A a qu a clarification. So what we've been talking about, you know, all these
teachers, the leftover, whatever you want to call, is that what we're calling involuntary transfers, or does involuntary transfers include other things? >> Why don't we just start there and just call it involuntary transfer? >> No, because you have to use their
language or they're going to give you the wrong answer. >> But I thought that was their I thought that was their language. But I Okay. I think it's two kinds of involuntary transfer. And so, Miss Sim, but what I'm >> is it's the one which is the unit
adjustment transfer when you don't have enough kids and you're the last one hired. So, you get involuntarily transferred someplace else, right? And then the second one is when you're just not a good match for the school
and however it happens, you get removed from the school without getting terminated, without all that. Um, and you end up going someplace else. That and and that's the one. And again, I'm not saying it happens all the time,
but but the it's just to me all the the focus has been on the focus on educating children has been lost. So, okay, I'm going just say this and I shut up and listen, but for example, if you have a high need school
um that has something to be desired with their math scores and you have somebody who's applied to be a teacher and their degree is in math, that's where they need to go, right? Like that's that's my magical world.
Okay. So do so, uh, quite a clarification question. Um, if you know this, Miss Simmons, um, the term involuntary transfer. Yes. >> Do you know it's you never know. >> You guys are asking like I can only go
from experience. I can't really go from like the HR, >> okay, >> part of it. I can only go from what my experience has been >> with >> with those actually then I think that should be our first question to HR to
make sure that we're all on the same page is good >> to clarify the difference between the two. >> Right. We we we think it includes these two situations. Is that correct? And does it include anything else? >> Yes. >> So I'll put that for our first um question.
>> Right. >> Okay. And then the question about what Dr. Robinson was saying about um that that second scenario, but I'm because I'm just saying in my experience, I was at a school and that it just there
was nothing we could do. It just it was and he's still there. >> You were at this receiving school. Oh, you're talking about Okay. You're talking about that teacher who's there since the first brick was laid. That's who you're talking about. Okay. Well, I mean, and that's
okay. And so, based on what I've heard over time, that exists everywhere, like across the board, but more so in some schools and others, it appears. I don't know. Let's ask them that, too.
>> Okay. >> Okay. So, I think that there should be a question along the lines about like maybe like contractual >> I don't know. I think um Dr. Robinson mentioned something about that >> to ask about the data since we're asking
>> there's four minutes left to log in for the next meeting. So, I think you should solidify your >> three to four questions. >> Okay. Um, >> we are an official ANDOC subcommittee. You cannot limit us to three or four questions. Okay. >> No, no, I'm not limiting you to three or
four questions. I think you should I think you should solidify the next four minutes your three to four questions because we we have four minutes and we have to Yeah. >> Sue Davis's been writing it down. >> I Yeah, I've been writing them down. What I'm going to do is email them to uh
Taisha and have her um if she's still there um email them out to to the subcommittee and then we can all kind of um ask various aspects of the questions. I've been kind of writing down the notes as we as everyone talks. So, um I think
um yeah, we should probably uh do that. So, I will do that. Um, obviously anybody can ask anything, but feel free to if I missed anything. I'm just going to add now the the one about the cont, you know, the teacher contract
and um then I'll see you all in the DDC meeting in a few minutes. All right. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thanks everybody. Bye.