Understandable. Completely understandable. >> I'm trying to find I'm just trying to find the list here again. What was asked for >> here? Um I actually just you know um 10 minutes ago set uh the agenda. Well,
actually what we can do we can do our um >> can you unpack what you're trying to get to based on the last data that was shared? >> Yeah, let's take a look at Can we look at the Google sheet that Dr. Robinson had created and we could kind of get an
idea from there? >> Um, does anybody know what it was titled? >> That's a good question. >> I don't know if it was shared or if it was within the meeting. It it was just sent out re um
>> sent out this morning. She updated the minutes and sent sent it out this morning. >> So I have the minutes when I can share that. Um >> that was just emailed to everybody at about 10 till 9 the the updated minutes
that had all the data requests. So um what we had done because I think Keith you you weren't here for the last meeting if I recall correctly >> meant like right at the end >> right. So basically what we're trying to
do is we realized looking at the data um that it was just way you know way too much. So he said rather than trying to look at all the data, let's just drill down into fourth grade ELA
um because that's you know I think a pretty significant grade level and where we could get some interesting information. So then then what we're looking at is for the students that um
made progress like going up more than one level. We're looking at the teacher data which would be um you know like their years of experience whether they're nationally board certified whether they have a reading endorsement
and then how did they this was a big discussion last time about how they arrived we showed it how they arrived at the school um >> I don't know if we're going to have that kind of um yeah that's gonna teach you all this kind of data That's very teacher
specific. That is going to take some time. See, Miss Sim is not here where she left off of this because that's going to be an HR function, not a research,
>> right? >> I'm not sure. I mean, there's been plenty of studies also done on as far as endorsement and n national board certification. and that having an impact that it's going to be mixed. It's going to follow all other
data points that you'll have some that do well, some that don't, and that it's not like a difference maker, >> right? >> I think that it's also important to get the the to add the total number of
students, too. Um, that was a data point that was missing. Total number of students meaning >> like so that we could compare those that make progress that move from level one to let's say level two or three overall
the entire population of the fourth grade. Right. >> Okay. >> Um >> Dr. Mr. Robinson, what's what >> rearch? >> So what I was you made reference to
research that shows that the board certification is not you know I don't know what words you use not that significant in terms of improving outcomes. I mean I think we I would like to see that research. I I mean I intuitively believe that, but
everybody else acts like the board certification is like the thing that will improve lives forever or something. Yep. >> Okay.
Um, >> yeah, that's that would really be that that would be good because if it's something that's been shown to not be that significant, then we can just take it out of the the equation because unless we have any reason to think that
uh Palm Beach County would be different than what other data has shown. the IE looked at it. I'll put this one in the chat. Is this a raising hands meeting? >> No, there's only four of us.
>> Okay, >> just stop. >> So, I think that the whether or not the teacher is board certified should be relatively e easy data to pull. So, I wouldn't say remove it. Um, because there's some people who will be
like, you know, basically they're not going to believe like so we can show if it's not hard to to get the data, maybe it's worth getting. I don't know. I I need more coffee. I'll make more sense shortly. >> It may be it may be a question that
people other people that look at the data will ask. Hey, were all these teachers cert, you know, all these uh teacher examples certified? For whatever reason, they want to ask the question. If it's a strong coincidence, then yes, you we should definitely use the data.
Um whatever is going to help us uh reach our um uh the the information target that we need, >> right? >> It's just going to take my opinion. In my opinion, the quality of the certification while it is important, um
it's what you do with the certification. >> Yeah. >> What I'm saying is it's going to take a lot of staff time to pull all this for >> all the different schools. So that's a lot of work to drill in. So I need
everybody to understand that. >> Well, yeah. No, I understand because we don't want to, you know, we all know that everybody has more work than they can ever do on a given day. So, I do want to make sure that that um what we
will do with the data will be worth the amount of work. Um because I don't want to, you know, just ask for a bunch of data and that sits there and it's not really leading to anything. It was a a big waste of time. >> Exactly. But um
I do one of the things like with you know this is a pretty big data request and probably one of the things we can say going forward is that um the people looking at it
take take the the easier quicker parts and get it to us uh sooner rather than later. And if there's parts that are going to be a lot of work or need a lot of time, then let us know and we can analyze to make sure that that is truly
going to be a a worthwhile piece of data. But I think I'd rather h have um part of what we asked for, you know, instead of waiting for everything, some parts of which might take a long time.
Mhm. >> Like that student data by school and teacher. I'm guessing that's a fairly easy one. Um I'm thinking that's probably all in database, but you know, I don't know. I'm not the data person
here or anything, but um and you know, maybe like whether or not they're board certified or have a reading endorsement might be easier than how the teacher arrived at the school. this kind of data here that I have highlighted is stuff that's going to take more time.
>> Okay. So, so I think what um what we probably want going forward >> and this some of this data here, student data by school and teacher, some of that
may be um student identifiable when we get less than 10 students and therefore not necessarily being able to be shared, >> right?
Right. >> By school. Okay. But by teacher, right? Although if the because we're not asking for identification of the teacher. So
>> you're not asking for identification of the teacher >> like not by name. I'm saying um >> Oh wow. And >> be >> because I think that remember that was a issue originally which I can understand you know that having individual teachers
names um I think we're looking at like uh I'm I'm not quite sure how that would be done if it's like fourth grade teacher one teacher one. Um,
so but but my point being that if we're not identifying the teacher by name, then does it matter if it's fewer than 10 students? Because >> yeah, if you're not identifying the name, then that changes it. >> Okay.
Um the other and something that just occurred to me now looking at this >> but let's say something positive comes up or that you want to know who the teacher is right and then you have this data and
then >> well I think though we don't really need to know an individual teacher what we're really looking for is trends you know like like let's just say it turned out that, hey, when they have a reading endorsement, they're actually
their kids are doing better or, you know, if we actually got this of, hey, the people who applied to the school or are their students are doing better than the ones who had an involuntary transfer, whatever. Um it um
but something else a little complicating factor just just occurred to me that um you know we have all kinds of interventions as well mandated you know by state law. So when like for example
reading endorsement well the teacher may not be reading endorsed but the person doing the tier two or three interventions might be reading endorsed and so but they're not listed as the teacher of record um
and then to make it even more complicated. >> Yeah I'm thinking Dr. Robinson you remember the old uh PYG scatter pot. Wouldn't that show some of what you're trying to get to? The PY scatter plots? >> No. What's PY?
>> Percent yearly growth. Um >> the ones that show each quartile and teachers by school. >> Would that be a better >> way to illustrate? >> Okay. So, let's go back to what we challenged oursel with. So according to
my notes, we said, "What are the barriers to getting the quote best teachers with the neediest schools or students?" Right? So I think that the PYG scatter plots would
tell us where they are to some extent, but we still not getting into the factors that led them led them to be there. most of what we're talking about is
where are they on the scale of the best scale like you know like on the great teacher scale right >> um and then and I think part of that was trying to figure out if there's any I'm going
call them proxies um that would predict that this person will we, you know, fit into this category, right? Um, so I think we, we just need to sort out
what we're trying to do. Now, the other thing is like, so we could go to back to the how they pulled the data for those $10,000 teachers way back when. um and maybe pull that kind of data
and then look at those teachers. So, as I recall, these were teachers who whose students um basically gain more than a year's
progress in a year as I recall. >> Yeah, they would be up in this upper right hand quartile. So this is this is FY25 >> by school. >> So the schools in the blue had high
growth and high performance being level three or above. >> The green had high growth but not necessarily at level three. The yellow had high performance. They were above a
level three, but they didn't have growth. And then the red was low growth and no performance, >> right? But we would need to look at it as by teachers. You got a scatter plot for teachers.
>> Yeah, I think there is. Just got to >> So before you look, can you put the link for that um PowerBI in the chat? Yeah. I'm not sure if you'll be able to open it, but maybe
this is a >> Yeah, this is uh this is >> I was going to say the the other thing I mean I guess maybe this is useful in the like I'm thinking of the other thing we talked about which is the um the ones who had higher than expected
uh growth the and I forget what that uh there was a term that you all have for that Uh that um that >> I guess >> say it again. >> The VAM scores.
>> Yes. Yeah. That the value added. Yeah. That the ones whose whose students scored higher than was predicted or expected um because that kind of levels the playing field.
um like for >> this is a this is similar to a VAM but it's one of created and much easier to understand than a VAM formula. >> So it has the same type >> it and correct me if I'm wrong the thing
that I would think a VAM would capture that this wouldn't is um well well actually let me ask a question about the VAM. Does VAM always expect a year's growth?
Like like is that the minimum of what is expected for VAM? Um because I would think that if you have a you know if you have a sixth grader who's reading at um who's been making say six months uh growth
every year that having expected growth of a year would not be um really realistic necessarily. Um although I guess it could go the other way. You say it should be more than a year because they have to catch
up. But um I guess I don't know how how VA the question is how VAM determines what is the expected growth and if it's always a minimum of a year. >> Yeah. And since the
the I'd have to get schooled on it since we've changed our testing to three times a year and how it works versus when it was yeartoear. Um I don't know how that formula has changed. So I'd have to bring
somebody from research and val to unpack what's evolved. >> And VAM span stands for value added what? >> Model. >> Model. Okay. Um, I'm trying to see if I can find a
scatter plot plot by >> teacher. >> So, I want to I want to go back and clarify. So this um this scatter plot for on the schools. >> Um so this
this is just straight um yeah percent level three and then the bottom is the PYG percent yearly growth. It's a I mean on the what is that the Y axis is the percent yearly growth. So
the so the percent yearly growth is a calculation that takes into account um expectations like VAM does >> correct. >> Am I correct?
>> Correct. >> Well, no. Well, yes and no. Because if you look at that that like let's say that lower right where they're they have a higher growth that axis there that's showing that basically anybody who grew
more than a year is considered higher growth and anybody who grew less than a year is considered lower growth. But I don't know that that has that's not necessarily tied at all to expected growth. And that's kind of back to the
question I just asked is how in the VAM model in VAM, how is >> expected growth? >> Expected growth determined? >> Expected growth would be the lower right that you're making at least a year's gain in a year's time,
>> right? >> But that doesn't necessarily get to you, and Dr. Robin talked about this for years, that doesn't get you necessary to grade level. You could go through every year making a year's game but never make
>> grade level. >> Right. >> Right. I mean, and this is interesting. I I think we could all probably without seeing any schools take a wild guess that our wealthier schools are in
the upper right and our lower socioeconomic schools are in the lower left. Now, some of the wealthier schools are going to be in the upper left. >> Upper left. That Yeah, >> they're not growing. They're just the kids do well, but they're not growing,
>> right? Well, and it does make sense if let's say you're a third grader and you're reading a fifth grade level, it's how much growth can you make? >> Exactly. So, um, so I should say the ones that are on the top half are probably your,
um, wealthier, uh, >> and that's what this whole conversation is about, right? So, if we believe in the value of teachers, right? If we think that teachers are critically important to education,
then then what are the predictors of a teacher who's going to move, you know, this needle? But I think that back to the PY though, I think the PY is is based on predicted values. So we just
need to for the sake of understanding data when we're looking at it, just have um maybe uh Mr. Aswins to to answer that and just send it out to us later.
But they get to answer which uh >> is PYG based on predict expected growth or predicted growth? >> I think it is. I don't think it's straight a year's growth in a year's time. I think it is what you expect a
student with these particular characteristics what you expect them to do in a year. >> So in other words, Deborah, you're saying that down there at the bottom where it says 1.0 O that that may not represent a year but it might re
represent the expected >> expected year's growth. >> Okay. >> What what the I could be wrong. >> I think it's act No, it's actual growth. >> Okay. Put as >> answer writing.
>> It's fine. >> Yeah. I I just clear it up in my little my little head. Um and I think you know like actually some of the more interesting schools might be the green um
with you know because we chances are they're not a high socioeconomic because um they're not where they're supposed to be at the level three and yet they're making good growth.
Um, you know, one of the things that I think makes this difficult, like we look at some of those, um, basically the schools above the line, right? Um, well, I know, you know, just from my own kids experience and from talking to plenty of people that there's a large percentage
of of students in those high performing schools that have private tutors and two English-speaking parents and stuff. a lot of factors that that have nothing to do with how good the teacher is.
Um but you're but like what we're trying to do here is figure out what in those you know beyond those factors who are the those teachers. So, you know, really what we're looking at is those schools below the line, right? And
maybe what we should be looking is what's the difference between the green schools and the red schools. >> And are we able to see like which schools are in which area or like which specific school it's indicating? >> Yeah. If you hover Can you open it? Did
it open for you? >> Where' you Where'd you put the link? >> I think it's in the chat. The >> chat if you hover over you'll see the school name come up. Oh, okay. >> Let's say I want to just go to I can zero in like this is just elementary.
Um I want to go to just middle school. Um right now I'm in ELA. I could switch over to math. Um I can switch to algebra. That's interesting.
>> That is interesting. Um, >> back to ELA. I could go by principal supervisor portfolio or I can drill into an individual school. Let's say
Addison Mech. I can go one by one. Atlantic High School, Drifus, Bach Banyan, Barton, Beacon Cove,
Bear Lakes. >> Okay. >> Belg Glade, Belvadier, Benoy, Burkshshire, Binks, Forests, Blue Lake.
So, uh, Ke Keith, can I ask you a question here on this, uh, scatter plot? So, um, a school, the entire school gets gets one dot. Um, >> I'm trying to find out if there's one of these for there. I think there's one by
teachers, too. >> So, >> that would be great. >> So, you drill. So, I would have this for my teachers at my school. Mhm. >> Um, at least we used to. I just I I sent
him a a chat. I I sent him a message to see if see if he gets back to me. Um, but yeah, you would have it by uh by actual teachers within the school, >> right? >> Which I think is more powerful than some
of the data you're asking for. >> Right. Right. Exactly. And and so then the question is um on for a school's dot is do you know this is based on
the their their little score here the average. So I could look in just like for example I just clicked on Lincoln Elementary which is the the furthest one on the right of the green. Um it said a max of 1.4 41, which looks
like >> So the 1.41 means the kids average one year and four months gain. >> Okay. So that's the average. That's what you're saying because it says max, but that's max of the average. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. Great. That's what I want to know. >> Um, so the top upper right, Coral Sunset 1.37. So their kids almost one year, four months versus a school down here,
Roosevelt Elementary, kids average just slightly over half a year's growth, >> right? >> So, is it possible to get this by teacher? >> I'm trying to find out. I sent a a chat
to Paul. >> I mean because I know the the um I I know there's cons privacy concerns obviously about teacher names. So, um, >> yeah, I just want to like let's fast
forward here and pretend we have everything we need and we're back to knowing who moves kids, who doesn't move kids. My speculation, it will be a mix, right? You have some teachers at some schools that do it, some that don't, some that
maybe have endorsements, some that don't or national board. So um I think it has more to do with teacher efficacy and building student efficacy but um as well as their content knowledge a combination of the two um
let's say we have that trying to get certain teachers that are high performing working with lower performing kids that move kids you're still down to kind of the age-old challenge at least in the 30 plus years I've been in education of how do we recruit and get
them to go to and work at another school um and stay there. Some will do it because they feel it's a moral responsibility and they do it and then you get the others who you know
for whatever reasons working conditions I could tell you at the high school level pay for pay for uh per performance and accelerate coursework is going to be a big distractor at the high school level. Um
that was a big challenge for me at Boon before it was even bigger money now. >> Right. Although bottom line is I mean that that is money right and I think you know I mean I think you raised a really good
point here Keith in that fast forward and imagine that we have all this data. Are we addressing the problem that that you know uh Dr. Robinson just restated what our purpose is is what are the barriers to the good teachers being at the
schools where they needed more. >> And I know that the data is difficult to get and we and we've discussed it but some of the data that um Dr. Robinson had mentioned last time about like how the teachers are getting to each school.
This is the point where like that data would be valuable so that we could see you know like what is the process? how did that teacher get to that school? Um, it it's not necessarily that the teacher is choosing that school. >> So, Paul just got back to me. So, we do
have something by teachers, but it's limited access to individuals, even to principles. >> Yeah, that makes sense actually >> because uh it's identifiable at the teacher level, >> right?
>> So, I'm have to have a conversation with him. I was going to say maybe, you know, that might be the, you know, it I I was just going to say that, you know, with all this discussion that
we've been having, maybe really that's not what we need. Um I mean like a a good question would be again looking at these schools on the scatter plot comparing um say how the teachers got to
the school from the lower left to the lower right or um you know things like that like like the because again we're you know I think we'd kind of gone down a little bit of a
rabbit hole of trying to determine exactly what certifications or years or whatever made a teacher a good teacher, but that doesn't answer our question. And maybe
when we're looking at the school level um of looking at which schools have have more involuntary transfers and which which schools have just you know percentage- wise teachers
who are reading endorsed or teachers with years of how many years of experience. Um, I think that, you know, maybe that that would lead us maybe I'm thinking perhaps closer to the question that we're really trying to
answer, which is what are the barriers or, you know, or maybe it's not maybe, you know, we've been looking at this all wrong and should kind of go back to what we were looking at originally, which kind of what you're talking about, Keith, like it's the things like the
extra pay for the high level courses and and you know I know we talked a lot about culture in our first meetings and how the culture affects people's willingness or unwillingness to work at a school. um you know data is kind of tempting I
think because it's it's numbers that we can really glom on to something like culture is much harder but we do have that school culture data I believe that was presented to us and I think that there is some benefit and like you know cross referencing it
possibly seeing like which schools fall on like the the lowest left and like see what the school culture is looking at like in those specific schools. I think that there's value in that. Um,
>> right. >> I mean, yeah, like it would I I totally agree. I think that it'd be really interesting, I think, to look at um the school culture data from, you said from the lower left and compared overall to the school culture data on the lower
right. Um, I I do understand it's a little bit of a chicken in the egg. you know, if you're uh perhaps maybe not. Um but but I think, you know, um
I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Um it was interesting though as we go through the schools and like if you go click one by one, what Dr. Dr. Robinson's I guess like um you know, thought was is kind of true. So if you
go look at like those in better areas, they tend to fall on the top half of the graph, >> right? >> I mean, and and I think no matter what we do, there there are factors that are
that's always going to be true because there's going to be factors that are beyond the school uh environment, right? um no matter what if you have if you're sending a kid home to um parents working three jobs and not being
able to read English, it's very different than sending a kid home to, you know, a stay-at-home mom who who reads for an hour to her kids. I mean, that's just, you know, a fact of life. I think what we try to do with our our schools that are on the lower half is
say what can we do you know at the school level to to make up for some of the inequities. >> Yeah. >> Um you know which >> and see falls on to the teachers.
>> Right. Right. Exactly. Um and even how much you know like like it is really important to to think about how how we can improve the school culture um
in spite of the fact that it it doesn't you know that that the teachers don't have a a whole classroom full of supportive parents that are volunteering for everything and you know donating for everything and all of that. Right. So um
>> and I mean how do we increase that parent school you know collaboration participation? >> Yeah I mean it's you know I do think there's things that certainly things that can increase um parental
involvement. Um, the bottom line is neighborhoods with a lot of stay-at-home parents are going to be more involved than neighborhoods where everybody's working two or three jobs. >> Gloria, >> hi Miss Branch. >> Hi. Um, I will have to say you're right,
Sue, with the, you know, you have parents at home and you have ones that work three and four jobs, but I will say there are a lot of nonprofits, including the Junior League of Booker Raton, that got in contact with me and asked for all the title one schools in Delray and
Bokeh, and then they're going to do keep going further north. Um, and they all the teacher had to do was do a page application, and they got they donated a hundred books. Obviously, they had to be approved and all that to each classroom. So, there are a lot of charities that
maybe we need to look at to help those schools and those students that, you know, whatever they're lacking or need or the classroom needs or the teacher needs that we have, we're very lucky in Palm Beach County. We have a lot of charities that help our school district
and I don't think we'd be able to do it without them just because we're so big. So maybe that's one thing we need to look at, but there are a lot of charities that help title one schools, low-income schools. I know um the Bokeh schools donate and help Bokeh elementary
schools because that's a lower income population. So there are a lot of things out there happening and a lot of people helping, but maybe we need to identify more. You know, have the schools let the principal know and then let us know. But there are a lot of people out there that donate and give a lot of help to lower
income families. Thank you. Isn't that lovely, Miss Branch? So, the purpose of our conversation is to try to determine what barriers exist inside the school system and its policies and processes that prevent the
best teachers from being with the neediest students. And so, we're not talking about whether or not charity is a solution for injustice. We know it's not.
Okay. So, it's all lovely that people want to put their charitable resources at play um to try to help them get in heaven because of the centuries of lack of access for certain groups. But that's not what we're talking about here, right? And so I want to go back and say,
so I think if we can figure out maybe we'll do a sampling from the scatter plot, right? But at the end of the day, we still try to get to
the systemic stuff, the institutional things, right? um the um that we've talked about before in terms of like burnout and and the need for additional uh supports whether they're BHPS
or social workers whatever like you know that that's added bonus but just you know because we're we're going everywhere and yes I I I always go down these data rabbit holes so I'm sorry for taking y'all there um if we and maybe
look at the scatter plot and see which schools and then but we still have to answer the question in terms of how did the teacher get there. Did they apply? Were they you add it? Were they placed? And so maybe
to maybe we sample from both ends of the spectrum, right? Those with lowest performance, lowest growth. >> Yeah. And then and maybe then if but we still have to get it to the teacher. So if we maybe if we choose a school and
then maybe we could get the um principal supervisor to look at the teachers in those schools to answer our questions. I don't know. I'm trying to figure out how to simplify it, >> you know, but stay focused on the
questions we're trying to answer. I think that that's makes sense, right? Maybe picking one or I would think three schools. Maybe one in the lowest, one in the top, and one in the middle. Or we could even do two and then comparing. >> Maybe four. How about one in each
quadrant? >> I think that that's a that's a great one. So it'll give us a good picture. >> Yeah, I think that's a really good place to start. And then in just a moment, Gloria, the um I I think yeah, if we
could pick one, maybe two in each quadrant and especially um I'm especially interested in the red and the green um >> because I think we that's probably not true. I shouldn't make assumptions about what what the schools are in the above
the line. But um and I think the the first you know if we could first get the school level data um for just a handful of schools um just the like for each of for what percentage of teachers at that school
you know applied what percentage were placed blah blah blah. Um, and actually we could even do it down to just like certain grade levels if we want or certain um, you know, subjects, whatever to make it a little bit more
>> Yeah, I think we should stick to the fourth grade. fourth grade in fourth grade ELA maybe, you know, and and um so then that would be hopefully then a piece of data that you know we could actually get
>> and then you know I think and then we go from there because if we see real differences in those numbers between the schools then we know that's a place to drill down to the teacher level. If we don't see many differences uh percentage-wise between those schools,
then then correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that means that uh we need to look at something else. >> And I think uh Miss Branch has re-raised her hand. >> Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> That's all right. Yes. Um Dr. Robinson's been talking about this for how long, Dr. Robinson? >> A long time. and uh she she with data just like my dad is big on data but every child does learn differently and I would say over the years since Dr.
Robinson's been talking about this. I think um the the test scores are up, the graduation rates up. So, we're obviously doing something right, but obviously there always is always always always room for improvement and help and to figure out. And when you take one
school, like you said, what may work for one school and one teacher may not work for someone else. But so far, I think the school district's done a great job of we're raising the graduation rate and the test scores. Doesn't mean everybody can read, write, and count, but I think
we've done a great job. I think Dr. Robinson, you even said, I don't remember what maybe it was the last call when when um Mr. Alol gave some data on test scores. >> Yeah. And that's lovely. And so then, but as you know, Miss Branch, when the
Coalition for Black Student Achievement presented its report card on the Palm Beach County School District, there are still some stark disparities. And so, what I'm talking about now is trying to get to the the structural and systemic
things involving the teacher. We say that the teacher is the most important single person that gets paid, right, in terms of the child's education. And so that's what we're trying to look at. There's a lot of things I think and I think one of the things and I'mma just
I'mma just throw it out there since I'm rambling that happened and it actually happened under my watch. I didn't understand the significance of it. We there was a point in time when teachers would be hired by the school district and the district would tell them what school you're going to.
Okay, that changed and so now they're hired by the school. So tell me Mr. Oswald if I'm wrong because you know my recollection could be flawed. But so there's a there's things inside
the way business is conducted that I think either contributes to or does not alleviate the disparities. And I still believe that it's important to address these disparities because at the end of the day, we should be quote developing all
human capital so that everybody can be a productive citizen so that they can pay it to social security so I can be really >> Exactly. Somebody else just said the same thing you just said about paying social security. >> Right. Right. But we don't but but we're
happy with the A-rated school system. And so that's why I want to look at this particular issue and it is complex. So So we're trying to simplify it. We got 10 minutes left. So we said we're going to choose one or two in each
quadrant. >> Yeah, I think so. And then so let yeah let's see if we can get this done in the next 10 minutes so that um hopefully that data would be something that is manageable and then we can you have
going forward um and then and then I say and then let's let's make it clear what we want the data we want on each of those schools. Um, I I would think in a way what the
schools we'd want to choose would be the outliers, like the ones to the far right of the green, the ones to the um far left. >> Just name them, please. Let's let's say so. Okay. So, how about like Lincoln
Elementary is the far right. Um, >> in the green >> in the green. Lincoln and Rosenwald. Um and then the far left on the red um is Roosevelt Elementary.
>> You know, and some of these I do want to have a conversation with Mr. Hchens because your data set's going to be pretty small. A Rosing Wald and a Roosevelt. So, one kid can count like two points, three
points. So, it's going to be skewed >> by the number. >> Say that again. What? What? Um, I'm sorry. Why? >> So, I'd rather explain that more. >> I'd rather have a conversation with Mr. Houchins because what you're talking about because the denominator and some of the schools that you're mentioning
are so small that a single kid if I got a 100 kids in fourth grade right each kid is uh essentially one counts as one right versus if I've got you know 25 kids in fourth grade or 50 kids are
going to count as two if it's >> okay and those are just smaller schools is that what you're saying Yeah. So versus on the other side, if it's if you've got a very large kid, I mean a large population, >> the numbers are going to each kid's
going to be a lower percentage. So I think we got to try to control to compare apples to apples. >> Okay. So would the committee be fine? Would would the committee be okay with um Mr. Charles will uh choosing the
schools under the you know after looking at the the size and all that and um with the clarification that basically we want kind of the outliers >> remember in choosing I got to see what we can pull too because Paul gave me some information where I don't know what
I can pull by teacher because it could be teacher identifiable which could cause other issues especially like out of Roosevelt Rosenwell you're going to be able identify a teacher immediately. So, which is >> we can't do that. So, I got to have a
conversation to try to get to what we discussed and >> what can be pulled? And um so quick question for the committee. It or and for Keith I guess it does it make it easier if we just say the school as a
whole as opposed to just fourth grade when we're when we're looking at these you know that >> depends on the denominator. Depends on the denominator. >> I'm sorry what >> depends on the denominator. >> Well I think that could help us go into
like picking each school. Right. We want one school in each quadrant. So I would suggest we pick schools with similar population sizes so that we could avoid some of that skew. >> Based on what you're saying, you want more around each quadrant that are title
one, >> right? Because that's what you're trying to find outliers. >> No. No, not necessarily because that's you're not you're not getting the comparative data that you need, >> right? If you get if you if you pick all title one schools, that's that's just >> we're basically repeating the obvious in
my opinion. >> Yeah. >> Um we're going to find stats that going to that's going to echo things that we probably already know. >> Um but if we if we target >> uh if we if we select a sample of a
different or schools that are not title one. So essentially you want so to that point essentially you want each quadrant but that but the data set should be only for originally scored like level one or level two kids
and where do they end up in a year? >> Well, you know I think I don't think necessarily at this point. I I think at this point I would just really be be interested to know on a school level, you know, because well on a school level
some of that data about how the teachers got there and how many years of experience all that on a school level for the schools in the different quadrants. I think that will tell us a lot of where to go from here. um because I don't want to drill down that deep on
something that we're not sure is really going to be a relevant data point and I'd like to have data that we could actually that's doable. So I mean I would suggest we choose I'd prefer two from each quadrant or at least two from
the bottom half and uh you know but two from each quadrant and just get that school level data of um teachers years of experience national board certification you know reimbursement that that stuff that we were asking
about for teachers basically at a school level and um and I think that's a good first step and then I I'm hoping that that will then show us things that seem to have an effect on which quadrant that
school ended up in. >> So just so that I understand. And so what I'm thinking our next step would be to pick those four schools right in similar population size one in each quadrant or two in each quadrant however many but we have to make sure that the
population sizes are similar within the schools so that the data isn't skewed um and then I guess u Mr. Oswald could ask to see if that like data by school is able to be presented to us.
>> Yeah. All that. Yeah. I'm not making any promises. I'm going to see what I can get just so that I follow. I just wanted to make sure. Is that correct, Sue? >> Yes. Yes. Um, and I guess only questions since we have three minutes.
>> Actually, like one because I got to sign off, sign back in, and just switch over here. >> Okay. The only question is do we want to to let Mr. Wall um choose the schools um after speaking with uh Miss Dr. Hchins,
whatever his name is, I'm sorry. And uh or do we want to figure uh do this by email? Dr. Robinson. >> Well, thank you. So, I'm I'm trying to
simplify this. So, so what I want to find out, Mr. is ask them if they still can pull easily pull the data like they did with the $10,000 teachers so that they can actually rank teachers by PYG.
And I think we're looking at I so we said fourth grade. I don't know how we landed on fourth grade, but now with the um with the PM 1, 2, and three, I would propose that we look at third grade ELA between PM1 and PM3. But I'm I might
have all my data messed up. But the question, Mr. Oswald is to find out how hard it is for them to without giving us identifying information, but can they do they still pull PY
by teacher because they did for multiple years and then have the ability to sort that by the students demographic data. So we can see which teachers have the highest PY for third grade reading for
ESC students. for example, and then when we see those high performers, we look at them as opposed to starting by the school. >> All right, I will find out. I got to switch over. >> That's the way. I don't know how hard that is.
>> Okay, Taiisha, Miss Hick and I need to switch over and let other students in. So, I will look into that. >> So, I need to exit in the >> to be continued. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. Take care everybody.
>> See you in a little bit.