e e
all right uh good morning everybody Welcome to uh session four collective bargaining between district and PBA uh thank you all for being here this morning I think we'll get started with introduction so we all know know who's here um M Williams if you could get us started we'll just work around the table V Danielle William senior Attorney office of general counsel Mark
Mitchell director in HR Jean Mary Middleton assistant general counsel office of general counsel Ramos Cruz manager Labor Relations Diane Wyatt director of HR compliance and processes Tim kubri chief of Human Resources Sarah Mooney chief of police Vanessa snow deputy chief M ass Chief next Copus major officer laa PBA Katie Mendoza PBA Jody no
officer cash katami officer it's on Mike Lynch officer PBA all right well thank you again all for being here today uh so today's agenda with this is session four so we we have we do we've had trade you know traded some proposals uh at least the districts uh with the Reps between the chief and the Reps um we're going to do a real quick year and review we'll go through those District uh proposals see if
the union has any uh to discuss and then um get into when our next sessions are so real quick just uh reviewing last year despite go having to go through impass I do think we made some real positive uh progress with a 5% pay increase we did have the 3% onetime bonus um we did something that the chief has been looking to do for since she's come in which is establishing uh a sergeant position its own position rather than assignment pay uh new pay grades and a 10% increase for that
um we had other assignment pay increases and then we also had increases to our outside detail and non-contract rates um our minimum hourly rate last year established uh at 33 68 and our Max at 5757 minimum for Sergeants 3705 and 6333 so our um 12-month officer pay range is there um I think that over the past few years we have uh made some great strides to be more competitive and similar to other agencies so I think it's important to review that getting into this we
do have some proposals uh I know that they were shared with you yesterday so you've probably had a chance to see them but we'll work through them there's not a lot um but if we have you know any questions we want to get through while while we're doing this uh we can we can start now so one the chief uh had mentioned that the Reps have expressed an interest in increasing the the outside uh detail rate to $55 so the district is fine with that U we're we're in agreement with
that and and you know remaining competitive with other agencies so there's there's minimal change there just the rate and the year um that would go in effect on July 1 because that's when our leases uh are renewed there are we we provide lease rates to the board every F beginning of every fiscal year so that's when we we would be able to start that and Bill it to the the people you know leasing the our our properties okay any questions on that um no I just think that the Reps maybe wanted to talk about the holiday rates as well um and I think I have updated rates on that
that I could pull and send to you afterwards so I don't if you're still negotiating or working on the leases maybe we can talk about that too yeah we we I think we do have some time still um you know I in years past when we we start getting into like April late April or May I think that's when you know those rates have been established and board approved so the sooner that we get through that the better because then I could you know if we even reach a tentative agreement on it I can share that hey here are the rates that they need to advertise in their in their board agenda
items okay all right uh this joint study committee has been in the contract for quite a while it's my understanding that the the chief and Reps have been discussing this they have regular meetings on it and um we're we're really not having a a joint study so it's just a request to remove it so okay I I think that we just need to make sure we're on the same page that the calendar is bargainable that that is in the contract um so yeah we and we have the past few years uhhuh
um I think the biggest uh hiccup with the the calendar has been the ab Squad right and um so that that's something that I believe Chief's working to eliminate the B Squad and just to have one something that you guys have expressed an interest in in having um but the one thing about the calendar that we have to just remember is that it's it it's to make sure that we're covering our sites and our program so you know the the days will be uh with the with the amount of 12 month
officers we have now it's I think it's a little bit easier um but the days are the days that that we're in operation over the summer so well maybe we can put language in there that they can have a certain time or month we have that in some of our contracts to meet with you and to just discuss the calendar instead of a whole joint committee yeah I'm I'm fine with that if you want to propose something we can we could take a look at that okay and I did bring these um policies to discuss and I think that some of them I don't know if they necessarily relate to the calendar and
stuff like that but I wanted to talk about that but I'll wait till you get through all of this okay on the attendance supplement so um this is a a proposal to replace the attendance supplement with a uh 0.20% salary base salary increase for all officers um we we'd like to eliminate it we think it's helps in you know creating more uh simplified more transparent pay structure um
adding to the base salary uh makes it recurring compounding increases your overtime rates increases pension um so it it's something that we we would rather just not have it we've done this with some other of our other groups over the years and and you know by eliminating it added a a b a larger base salary increase and you'll see that that is if really when you look at it it's combined with also a request to eliminate this the performance-based pay plan um so this would
result in a 3% uh increase to the base salary so combined if we do both of them it's another half perc that would be added to the base salary I think that you know our efforts on our side have always been to put everything we can towards base salary not towards these supplements and hidden pay and that sometimes people don't realize they're getting uh I think it it it does better for the officers when it's in the base pay so that that's what this request is about okay we're open
to talking about all this and I don't think we're closed off to getting rid of these but with that being said I think we just need to talk about the experience based pay plan that you guys proposed yesterday and I didn't even get to read the whole thing until this morning because I was in Boon but um I think we have concerns with that and I'm and I'm glad that that was a proposal like a progressive plan like that because I think it took us five years to get to something like that so we're excited about that but I think that it needs to include everyone and we'd like it see
to the amounts obviously to be higher and in in line with maybe like more what the CTA gets and for experience inside and outside so we're open to talking about these things but obviously it's in line with the other fiscal items so okay salary plan uh this has been shared with the chief so we have spending Authority up to 4% um for officers and um so that that's that's just a modification of that from last year's rate uh rate increase um okay any other requests on this would uh if
there were other requests to say we want to spend more money somewhere else um are we would have to decrease this well I think that our at least mine I was surprised to read at the end of the the pay plan for the experience pay that it was inclusive of this because basically that means they're only getting like three and a half percent well all right when we we we'll get to that but let's just let's just like kind of step back and try to think about what this really means we're we're we we
do think we've talked over the years that um you know recruitment is an issue right trying to get officers in so we tried this is our proposal this is something we've talked about internally for a while and it's you know not all that easy to get you know this kind of spending Authority I'll say right it will help us recruit from other agencies I think it's a great start and even for those officers who have been here for very long time or have maybe spent their whole career here we we've looked at their salaries to see where they are and they've been receiving pay increases for us
um the if you have external experience though and we've looked at it we we've did a survey a couple years ago that's where this came from and the majority of the officers have external experience that they' be that that they'd be um bringing for that they would be used for credit for salary how many and it was it was well over a hundred um it was very large number of officers have external experience we'd have to do we'd have to do an updated one obviously and we'd have a process
to review that but I think the officers know what they have and they know what years they've worked somewhere else so if you have let's say 16 years of experience and you take the attendance and performance pay plan we're talking about an 8% increase this year that's there's no no other way that we see us going getting to that that's fine when you say it like that but then they look at the referendum monies which are put out to the public for school police school safety and
the teachers get up to $10,000 a year so I would be curious to see what that is in a percentage so that's fine when you say it like that but I would like to do my own survey on what the years are but for plus just three and a half and then when you compare it to the CTA referendum plan it just doesn't seem right honestly so three and a half% you know at least three and a half% you could say you know was the raise that was the year of 7% um you know that year we were giving out three and a
half% raises to everyone else so 3 and a half% extra was paid for at least I know she paid for the whole 7% out of it uh the referendum but that is refer referendum money that went to your base salary rather than a supplement needed because you were 75 or 80 short and now you're still 50 short well you know I know that keeps coming up but every single one of our campuses are covered on on a daily basis am I am I correct but because they have to be the cont there's a difference but there's a difference between uh fully you know what we we have allocated a number of positions
do you really need 50 more officers maybe maybe not but you know there our our responsibility is to make sure that every single campus is covered with an off officer so I guess that's what do you guys prefer the contract officers is that no no uh and obviously our actions say that we don't we've we've increased the number of officers we're I think we're closing in on 250 officers now which is the highest that we've ever had so no we don't we don't prefer that I'm just saying that we do we we have been we have been better able to staff our our our police department
and um you know and that's through some of the efforts that we've done over the past few years with pretty competitive pay increases and and a competitive uh starting salary I think we we have a few questions that we're going to follow up with so we want to know I guess how much was spent on the attendance supplement last year how much um went out for the per performance-based pay plan um I know you have so the performance-based pay plan is $100,000 right okay um so that's a the and how we got here that's uh the an 1% increase is 200 65 $270,000 that's including all the taxes and the F
FRS I'm not sure i' Heather's not here today I'd have to ask her but um I work through this with her and basically it's 3.3% is about that it's it's probably a little more than it but it's about that right and on the attendance supplement we annually spend about $60,000 so we wrote that out as 02 so we that that's where that's how we made sense of it um who else got rid of their attendance supplement it was it was before my time but I I believe it was the asop group um
Mark you might remember to the extent possible at the time okay yeah so the sto um I believe the only ones that have it are bus drivers yeah this time okay I think we're going to do some requests on the numbers but that's just what I would say say that I mean we're open to the four I would like to even try to do a 2-year deal but we want to improve the experience-based pay plan I don't think it's right Carol's not here today but like she has 22 years here and I don't think she has
much experience outside of here but she's a great sergeant and she's not included on that plan well it it is something that our our our goal on it is to um increase our ability to recruit from other agencies right and H coming in at at your base salary isn't isn't as enticing as it is when you could come in at a higher base salary um when we do that we do recognize that we would never want uh and part of our review is to make sure that anybody coming in would not be above one
of our current officers who have like experience right so if you if people with like experience will should not like if you come in with with 10 years you're not coming in at a higher rate than somebody within the department already who has 10 years of experience so right but I'm talking about including the people in the department yeah well I'm I'm and and I think that would attract younger officers too if we include inside experience I don't think the inside
experience would help us they're they're the ones encouraging them to stay to stay right um I I I'm I'm open to hearing a proposal um on that I think that we would like it to look like the CTA plan and then it can Sunset if the referendum sunsets the referendum supplement you mean yeah like how the teach the the teachers they get the referendum supplements and I'm not even saying necessarily the same number plan like how they get up to $10,000 a year I'm just saying that something
more along the lines of that including everyone across the board and if you're worried about the funding it can Sunset if that ever sunsets because it is put out to the public as for school police school safety and I do think there's a need for it because you're still 50 short so well I I understand that request I know you guys have been requesting it for years now I I do recognize that um and then I think that if there's no there's no plan to to change how the referendum money is spent well last time it was kind of said before the board that it just was already allocated
but even if we you guys could plan for it for the future so it's just like you don't want to because you do the budget you can plan the budget around it mean for the next referendum no I'm saying for the next year for the next year and we can try to do a two-year deal I don't want to drag these things out but I think that it is a necessity when you're 50 short and you're excluding people who don't know necessarily have experience outside of there and then you're saying 7.5 but the three
it's really three and a half so right yeah it's um you know it was a stretch to get to this for us we're we're we're trying we we really are uh we think that the uh current officers and and the many officers who have 16 years of experience from outside agencies who have come to us um I I think it's a pretty attractive deal to be honest with you I really do well I think I'm going to do my own survey to the members to see actually what the experience numbers are we're probably going to have a member meeting and then I'm going to request some numbers um just I I think we might
get better participation if we did that together rather than one side doing it than the other I think like really what we'd want to do is get a the best estimate possible right well I I will share that information with you but that's our role as the union to do that I understand that I'm just I'm I'm saying we're willing to cooperate on it to just see see what exactly that means because I think the better picture we have of how many what people will be getting makes it a lot easier to understand like is this a really great deal and I think people when they see that will
realize it is it's kind of I don't even think you can even accurately run the numbers if you don't have an updated survey so but that's something we can do and share with you um because I'm it sounds like you're working off a old survey yeah it is um so even back then you know but external experience for those existing officers likely didn't change it's you know it's they have right but you've been losing 10 to 15 at least a year so you have a high turnover but I think we have we don't have high turnover uh we really don't um but I know you keep saying that but we really
don't um you know well we did a records request and you you have about 16% vacancy rate and at the other departments where we see around 5 to 10% they're trying to work to to lower that so you still do have a higher vacancy rate and I know you say you don't prefer contract officers but it seems like maybe you just you you say your schools are filled which I get but I don't you prefer to have your department staffed CH how many officers are we using from other agencies at this time roughly uh for full coverage we just use them as supplement so all of the schools are
covered by our own officers uh sometimes they have to switch from one school to the other because we have some schools that have more than one District officer assigned but we have contracts in place to just have the locals on the campuses to supplement what we have the day-to-day coverage so there's no there's no agency that we are relying on to cover a school including like the supervisors covering and things like that what I don't understand like what are you saying are you saying one off every school has an officer assigned from the school district okay full like that that's their
school so over and Beyond some of them have more than one um but we do have contracts in place so that we can supplement our staff on the campuses we want the locals in our in our schools um and and the more we could have the better but not to replace our guys it's just to supplement our guys and goals right because some do need more than one like Mike do you have a second officer permanent now I do he gets moved on occasion but I do have a second officer okay okay well
those were our thoughts and I do appreciate The Experience pay offer but those are our responses to it and I do want to do some requests as far as the finances and Survey our members so um I I do want to talk about these policies though um just real quick on that too though on on the uh half a percent that is basically we're going to be paying our members that we that you're saving I'm not sure I understand so if we're saving 0 2% on the attendance supplement3 on
165 that's now no longer going to those officers that would have received those supplements so in in reality we're paying for that out of our taking away you're taking a half a percent yes we're reallocating reallocating it to another area so the first two years on on the the this the plan here wouldn't cost you anything for anybody that's coming in because it's point .5% after two years and then each one of these he's saying it's a wash it's a
wash if they're only getting 05% I think he's saying for like what they receive now for those benefits versus the0 five Al together yeah that's what yeah exactly you're talking about the supplement the performance pay plan and the attendance supplement correct so eliminating that it's a half a percent that's that
goes to your base salary that future increases will be larger because it's compounding it will go impact your overtime rate it will impact your pension you know positively because raise increases will be larger over time sobody and it includes everybody on on the force at that time so everybody gets that and again I think we're flexible but we just want to see the referendum money being used yeah that 100,000 is is closer to three4 of a percent by itself not including the
sick portion and and that's also right now we get it reoccurring you're talking about a ones shot deal it's well it's not really a one-hot deal it goes to your base salary which you keep right you get it you get it every year compound then you're you're so you went up half a percent larger raise this would be and then your next raise is larger because it's on a larger rate right your next percentage raise is based on a higher amount talking about compounded yeah corre but we
get that right now we get that 100 grand every single year some do some don't right some some some get benefit from it still be financed every single year our interest is really just trying to simplify what I would say and what Chief has expressed to me is a very complex pay system that we have here by you know and this is kind of common throughout the district and something that we'd love to do throughout many of our employee groups is eliminating all so many of these hidden monies right and put everything towards your base salary we think that as a a better long-term
result for our employees so that's that's a way to get our our base salary higher and and you know an incre a higher raise is something that we know we're going to talk about is that is that 3% and comp uh with the other two is that reoccurring then yeah it it'd be compounded if I may just give an example just mean your base so you're going to have it one time though it's it's not like you're going to get 3.33 okay we do get the 100 it's still there it's there every single year because
once you put it in there it's always there right we know if I made your example $100,000 $100,000 has been the $100,000 for going back for a few years right so let's say we did this last year you know the year before last year instead of it being 100,000 the next year you guys got what 7 and a half percent it'd be 17,500 because it's going to compound every year so in our proposal it's going to increase that 100,000 now that it's rolled in your base it's going to increase by whatever the base salary is so that 100,000 becomes 175 the becomes 114 spend is more on our side year after
year the spend is more for us than 100,000 so we truly do believe it's a a better benefit for the employees than than leaving at the $100,000 and it's something that you know Chief has looked at and has expressed that she'd just rather not have that just doesn't feel that it's um a great design or or something like that so and I think we're open to that if we can restructure the experience pay plan so okay um evals I wanted to bring up EV vals because I know you may be proposing some
changes so is that like still eval change is just um I can like I mean the actual form the actual evaluation sheet um Talk a bit so basically right now the evaluation was built in order to address this 165 Point evaluation system to me there 's way too much um room for error so to speak if you get a different if you get it it's so subjective that it kind of cuts the legs out from under
people if they get a new supervisor who decides to rate a little harder people have the opportunity to lose their their supplement so it kind of goes hand inand if if your performance pay gets wrapped up to everybody gets it the evaluations will not carry as much weight I'm looking to valuate are you doing the job appropriately or not if you're doing it appropriately it should be pretty easy to go down a checklist that's a lot less convoluted than the current tool that they're using um and
and I'm looking to see acceptable not acceptable as opposed to having five different levels of acceptable so you're going to get rid of the number scale to to a degree like it's going to be more based like the um like the fto Dos are so I do want to be able to recognize people that have been doing exceptional work I don't I don't want to lower the bar for them I want to have the ability to be able to to recognize them and I kind of brought it up that there's potential to to maybe we can do an award or something like that that that is is not necessarily going to put money
in your pocket but it's going to it's going to Showcase that you're doing a little bit more work than than the average Joe that's just acceptable so I don't want to I don't want to eliminate evaluations but I want to make it cleaner so that it's it's truly evaluating our day in and day out work and have the ability to recognize somebody that's that's going over and Beyond but I I want to work together we already we have already discussed through the policy part itself trying to rework the whole tool I talked to the the Reps about this during our couple meetings that I would like to sit in with them go through it so they see exactly what it is but but the reality of
it is the only thing that that it will impact is if you're not if you're not carrying your weight and you're not acceptable that the only negative thing would would be that potentially like the language is now that you may not be eligible for your raise the following year if you don't meet standards okay so that's but it doesn't make or break you on getting a piece of the 100,000 that's in in place right now okay so you're still working on exactly yeah definitely is it that it affect your U promotional if you hit a not acceptable that's the only way you have two people
that are acceptable like of just one category because that's we that's up for discussion I mean this is not this is this is more in in line with um this is more in line with trying to to eliminate the performance pay piece this kind of goes hand inand with it I still want to redo the evaluation tool whether whether the performance pay stays or not the way it is because to have 185 points or 195 points that are just arbitrarily thrown together on on an evaluation tool to me
is ridiculous I don't know who created the form sorry if somebody's listening that did but it's the the way it's set up right now it's just it's not it's not a good evaluation of what these guys are doing day in and day out it's probably old right it's really yes it's very old okay all right it's it's arbitrary I I I want to have something that actually evaluates what what everybody's doing okay so we'll just wait to see that all right um and then I wanted to bring up the sergeants because there's language in there we'll have to add the unit number that's simple and then
um I know I emailed you guys we're probably going to appoint one more Sergeant rep so I guess we'll have two Sergeant rep reps and the four officers so um but that's something I'll have to talk about with my board yeah okay and um the calendar I guess I'll propose some counter language to that and then I'll propose probably a counter to the experience pay plan based on the numbers that we request and oh we wanted to to clear up the r like if we're going to get retro that actual date
and how it's paid out because it was confusing before and there were three different dates involved I think so we wanted to make sure that's in the contract and laid out so everyone knows usually it's not very difficult last year was a an unusual one because it was like the whole year right it was the year before there were issues too I think I I I I think that yeah I'm not sure I I recall something um I can tell you that you know depending on when we get uh an agreement you
know there are certain times that are are blacked out for um you know other payroll processes that have to run our yearend processes our our summer pay period processes things like that um system upgrades so those are usually timed all around the same time and and this year I think there is a if I'm recalling correctly Mark you correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was April 11th is when a a agreement has to be ratified and and approved by the board in order to get it in prior to our
June uh June is when it would open back up what do you mean what do you mean like it the the the the systems closed out for a period of time because we run a massive amount of yeah massive amount of Summer paychecks for for employees and and end of fiscal year processes so I think it's good that this came up because then we know up front that hey these are this is the time frame when you know I think we have a bunch of um sessions scheduled here so I think we're I think we if we stick to it
I think maybe we could work to get a deal before then but but April anything after April 11th would have to pause until June like would would start coming out in June okay well Mark did I do that right yeah okay all right and that's not a that's that's something controlled by our payroll process I mean we have 28,000 employees who who you know get paychecks it's and the last year's one going through over what were the three dates just so that that that we did last year you mean that
we just yeah it was to deal with it was um pay rate increases right then your retro pay and then overtime overtime increases so there's like a ton of records that you we have a full year of it to go through and adjust and and you know make sure that there's a you know QA you know on it to make sure that hey we're doing this right because I think that's what happened the year before is that some mistakes or something yeah there there were some mistakes and people were over or
underpaid something like that um okay I feel like if everyone's in the no at least it'll not be such a big de um okay so I know you've had a chance to kind of review this I don't know if you have any other questions on it though quick question on the the salary schedule to those numbers that you have up there are based on just the 4% correct nothing else correct right there yes yes so in and if the extra half percent is if you guys go for that right the
performance and the attendance supplement then it would um it wouldn't be applied to this because that would only be for this because this is for new officers so um new employees right that would just go to the existing officers okay I'm gonna write a counter so um I know we talked about this before here is it is it costing more to would it um increas in the starting salary versus increasing the
topout say that again Mike what do you mean so is is anybody impacted by the max correct I don't believe so the max isn't impacted it's just a we we we've kept increasing it but nobody is at the point where they'd be redlined and and not you know getting their raise like when you when you reach the maximum hourly rate um in in most agreements you're redlined and you just get a check for the the pay rate increase but ours we've we've increased them both and nobody
we've increased them by our raises so really it's keeping Pace with the people so you're not people are uh employees have not reached the max you know does what does it cost the district to increase the starting pay four 4% so it's just a 4% the 4% increase over over the last rate okay so so a new officer would cost 4% more he said that he thought that 1% was 265,000 but they that's what
I'm dollar dollarwise it's that's what I'm I'm talking but they include the cost of taxes and stuff like that in their number so but it won't cost on the high end it'll cost on the employee you know some some of the well the employees towards the higher end cost more obviously their percentage pay raise is is more expensive for a a veteran officer than it is for a brand new one yeah I I I'm I'm not putting it in words right but I'll next time we'll I'll have that for you
all right okay so um I think we understand the offer so we're going to digest it and talk to the membership and come back with a counter um and then I think we meet in like two weeks but I wanted to talk about these today um there's a quick question about that Max yeah that Max you had up for the 12-month officer 11974 I get this question a lot what's the process of getting that nobody's at it right um I don't believe so so what's the ma what's the process for getting
is is thate care the way we've been increasing it nobody's going to reach it necessarily but it allows for us someone to be you know if you're working it allows for you to keep you know getting salary increases which are you know are in your pen your your highest years so uh we've just kept increasing our min max by the same amounts every year where a lot of times you don't you try to shrink it together a little bit so it's so you don't have a Max we're if you look at across other agencies we're one of the highest if not the highest Max most
people's Max are are in are way below ours but other agencies are are getting maxed out though that's where the difference is and we had this discussion not a good thing to be maxed out yes and no I mean everybody would always like to be Max everybody would always like to be maxed out if if Max is lower and and you've maxed out it's not as good as not being maxed out well you shouldn't be $20,000 less than max out steps even sh making more money is good yes so we've just
yeah yes so so that's a basically a hypothetical end so for for some crazy reason we had 20% a year for the next bunch of years we'd max out at that 119 we we have some people who are close to it okay um so that's why we've kept increasing our Max to make sure that they're not redlined is there's not out of all our offices what I think ballpark is about 250 no one's collecting that but you're saying a couple are close as a couple are close but you know and that's remember your
base not not your total like there's and you would typically have to be here from day one and work here 20 30 years to get to that as opposed to an experienced officer who comes here with 20 years and works here for 10 you're not getting any wi okay thank you well unless that's a good that's a good statement because this is people can flate you know mo most people you seem to have a better grasp on it than most people I've ever talked to but they can flate a pay range structure with their actual pay you and they're really two different animals you know so pay range structure is designed just like he said to be a career path for a normal 20-year person so many
jobs your job's unique because of the competition in the industry many jobs in the industry the pay range will stay the same for years they won't you won't raise them men you won't raise the max so pay range structure is a whole different animal than your individual pay right go thank you and the insurance rates when are you guys planning on putting those into to effect the increases um they're in effect the the the 2025 increases yeah okay good yeah yeah they're in they're
in um the only you know as you I think you know we did not settle with seciu and we're going through impass with but I wasn't sure if you actually yeah well we we would rather do that than to have to hit a retro that's why I was asking yeah no everybody's caught up every it's it's already been did an email go out or something that they did open enrollment okay a new open enrollment where they acknowledge the new rights and and stuff like that okay so that's taken care of okay good okay um I just wanted to talk about these policies so um the leave
policy and I gave you some copies but we just had a few questions and the leave this is something I think we voiced these all the same oh oh okay I'm holding them all I thought they I thought they were all different ones there's two separate ones so this was proposed I think the last time and and we said we wanted to keep it with the first line supervisor and talking to the Reps I think it kind of everyone does it differently in their chain but we still wanted to keep it with the first line supervisor um The Proposal was to
change it to the captain to approve or deny leave requests um so and talking to them it sounds like everyone does it a little bit differently but I just always think you should follow the chain I know uh we've talked about that before I remember probably my first year here that that that was when this came up right um but I mean there there there might be reasons for management to adjust how that's done um I don't think that really adjust the you
know is is something that that is I think it I think they have the right to do that to adjust Who who how you submit your absence request well it's definitely bargainable so I think we want to keep it with the first l supervisor talking to the Reps they still do email the supervisors at least a few of them so I don't know why you would Skip and go to the captain Chief do you have any input on yeah it has to do with the TeleStaff system and and the accountability for who's making the final approval they can still talk to their
their first line supervisors and they can help get it through the system but this is more or less to put the captains on notice that they're the ones responsible for making sure everything is approved or not so like because responsible ultimately for the coverage so if somebody in the South End puts in for a day and their Sergeant is not aware of of the North End having having a need where that would put them over the max we want the captain's communicating as opposed to to 30 you know sergeants trying to communicate okay so this is strictly for test staff pretty much yeah
just for the approval process they can still talk to their supervisors it's not like we're trying to take them completely out of the loop but I want the captains to be the ones checking it off because if there's a failure to cover something it's going to come back on the captain's so is that fine with you guys then has there been an issue with that cuz I think that it's been done a little bit differently for every it definitely has that's why we're trying to tighten it up so that you have somebody that's ultimately responsible for saying yes or no um and then when somebody goes well so and so told me I could and then that person said no that we want we want a this is the end of the road this is a person responsible for for checking the Box yes or no
they can still work through their chain it's it's and they probably will still work through that but the captains we just don't want the captains to come back and say Hey you emailed your your sergeant or lieutenant and this and that we can talk through that I mean it's not it's not to try to get people in trouble it's trying to make sure that we have coverage okay okay so maybe we can put email this and I think Joe had mentioned that before there's got to be some kind of a time limit we don't want to give send a request in three months in advance and it doesn't get approved until 24 hours before the date of that I'm going on vacation so you see there's a a time for um
when the request could be made a certain time of the day 1630 hours there's a time where sergeants can make adjustments on it but there's no time when it needs to be approved so we have a lot of folks and I get a lot of feedback on this they plan travel Daytona 500 travel is and they put in three months four months in advance two months in advance in order to get better rates on hotels and travel and so forth so to get approved in a certain to wait for months and then constantly
follow up on top of it that's that's what we're trying to correct so in in a on page two we can add a timeline that the captain's ultimately responsible for doing it they're supposed to check at the beginning of the shift and the end of the shift so within 24 hours there should be an approval or a denial on it and what is the 1630 hours is that already happening no that's what we're trying to get to so that the so that the supervisors are checking at the beginning of the shift and the end of the shift so if somebody puts in like oh my God I need emergency day off
tomorrow put it in before the end of your shift so we have somebody that looks at it and knows that you need the time off just continuity is what we need I have it in my zone it's not a problem other zones correct well maybe we can reword that to can we add a time to that I mean even if it's 24 48 72 someone's putting in 3 months in advance 3 days is not unreasonable to get back with an approval that even take it longer that's what I said I put it in no the the supervisor should be checking them daily so the the approval or denial should come almost immediately okay I may put 72 hours but I
don't want to give them that big a window got okay I think I'm gonna add if I'm gon to propose to add um something about just notifying the sergeant and then maybe clarifying the time limit um but okay I think that was that's the main thing for that one and then extra Duty see um the extended time we wanted to talk about that on page two it says officers
whose duty hours are extended contiguous with regular duty hours shall be paid for time work not a three-hour minimum so I guess speaking of them this sounds like it's really just referencing morning and after care is that accurate or what you yeah pretty much pretty much so if you're coming in before if you're coming in 45 minutes ahead of school to help with metal detectors um you don't get a three-hour minimum for that okay then I if you stay for an hour after because they need extra help at the Bus Loop then you get paid for that extra hour okay then I'm gonna um propose something to make that a little clearer and then
they said they've been having issues with I guess the principles not knowing about the three-hour minimum that we just did put into effect and that that has to do with this I I I talked to officer n yesterday and we'll we'll clarify that with the principes so that they understand it they and and if it worst case scenario if we got to put some more money in their budgets to make sure that they're meeting the contract we'll do that okay but I I do know that you have the extended time is a key piece to that though I don't need the guy oh we had a 15minute break so now I'm going to this next thing and I get three hours because I got to work for an hour right so I if if we're going to
if we're going to wiggle on the extended time if it's a homeschool officer that that is going to work right after I'd rather pay you the extra 15 minutes between when when you got off and when you start the next thing then say you automatically get a three-hour minimum for that okay if you're not working 3 hours we we agree with most of that too so we just need to put it on paper because we're getting 17 different that's fine um and and the the teacher the the principes are familiar with some of the contract but maybe not all of it so so when we tell them hey you got to pay them
three hours some of them may rethink what kind of coverage they want to have so I just want to make sure that we're not cutting our nose off despite our face and and make sure that it's clear for them to understand what they're paying for um and then I just had a question about Page Three G and H um like what really that means is that what's happening now yes okay because there's there's some people who may work
in the South End um and they live in the North End and they want to work some of those extra shifts they they get the opportunity to work those based on seniority not necessarily where you're assigned and that's been going on for a long time as no no because we haven't had the we well the Bravo shift you'll have to speak on the Bravo shift I think that's kind of just been to bid on seniority anyway looking looking at this now is with the addition of the Charlie shift to try to
the last time we had the meeting we talked about the seniority the last work session where was on a rolling senority base it's like the chief said if I live in bokeh and I want to work something but work Central it gives me a chance to apply so it's just a rolling rotation on the seniority and it's the way it's built out in t staff to try to just keep it equally dispersed amongst the officers it's trying to define the difference between a homeschool officer staying at home school and then going out to their Zone sector whatever to to Branch out to to fill uh an overtime that
they're coordinating these are countywide details so we open it up by seniority as opposed to where you're assigned during the day I just I guess I was had a question about per detail duration is that like it's categorized by it's that just means it's it's out so like a spring break so spring break coverage is going to be different so it'll be rolling during that week of sign up okay until it's full are you guys fine with so it's not like we have we're not going to start if if we're we're only going to we're going to use the seniority piece for that one week worth of details
so the other ones the the they're doing a 30-day calendar roll so the seniority continues through that and then resets but it goes It goes as long as that detail continues if it's if it's got a start and an end we want have everybody to have the opportunity to sign up for it so if it's only a week long I don't want the same guy getting the opportunity to work five details and somebody else gets none so there the senority would be just for that week okay so that's rotes through that's fine okay okay so I'm just going to propose for these to I guess clarify both of those for
each and then that should be fine okay all right well you're probably going to get an email from me I'll just send it to you I guess with the number Stuff um I don't know if we if you had a chance to review this The Joint study and a career ladder path program I did um it it didn't sound like it was it was going anywhere fast at this particular time and and from our discussions with the chief so we kind of weren't pushing on it right now either
um we'd rather get it done sooner than later of course but I think it's in a stand still at this particular moment and that's why we wanted to put this in there so it gets the ball rolling so that we have a resolution to this particular benefit by October 31st so we want to get the committee together we just wanted to add this so that we will work together look at it kind of rebuild what this program looks like because right now it's just all over the place so I want to get it to where it makes sense where there's clear clear things that you have to do in order to get through
that career path and what does that career path really look like because it's it's very very vague in the contract and it's and it's very convoluted in the policy so I want to merge those so that we have something that that works for both sides yeah I'm fine I'm always for you guys talking about it as long as I review the final proposal I'm fine with you guys can meet as much as you want so um but it that's what it requires that it would come to us yeah yeah so I'm fine yeah it's good um okay all right so we meet soon so I'll get you those I'm going to try to get you
those in advance um but I guess I'll have to get the numbers back first um I'll email you yeah the the more in advance I mean we we've kind of you know since this is session four since Chief and the Reps have already met a few times um I feel like we're at an advanced stage of of negotiations here we're not we're not right at the beginning so um anything from this point forward if there you have proposals the earlier we have it the better chance we'll have to fully I did just get these yesterday though no no I know I'm saying going forward though um if there's something you want
to counter or something like that that earlier we get it I can get it you know priced out so we know exactly what it is well I think you're going to know it's going to look like the CTA plan so okay we're talking referendum all right okay all right okay all right thanks everybody have a great day