open up the meeting. Welcome everybody to this February 10th planning meeting of uh the city of Parker. Uh Terry, would you mind uh giving the invocation, please? Thank you. >> Our heavenly father, we thank you for this day you've given us, for this life you've given us. We thank you for your
son. We praise these things in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. >> You might lead the pledge. >> Absolutely. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you, man. Thank you, Terry. Good. Madame clerk, will you do our roll call, please? >> Mr. Hall, Mr. Merritt, Mrs. Paul Rank here. Mr.
Striker >> here. >> Chairman Reagan >> here. Thank you. And we have a quorum. So, we are a legal meeting. So, uh we'll figure out what's going on with these other fellas here at a different time. >> Uh let's see. First of all, Terry, thank you very much for driving the gavl uh
last month. I really appreciate that. >> We had a nice vacation. It was nice knowing that somebody was actually sitting in for us here. So, thank you for that. and and ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being interested in what we do here in in the city of Parker. Uh today we really only we have a light
agenda. So that's uh very nice for all of us. But um we are uh Tony um is uh has asked us to look into a couple of things namely uh in regards to uh food trucks as well as Oh, very good. Very good. Thank you.
>> Do I >> Let's go ahead and uh do you want to say that he's a president? Absolutely. Say what now? >> Just for the record, Mr. Hall is present. >> Mr. Mr. Hall is present. Thank you very much. And we'll participate in the rest of this meeting. Thank you. >> Uh so uh anyway, so we had two items
that uh planning was asked to look into. One of them had to do with the regulation of mobile uh food trucks and then the other one had to do with rules for things that are currently dimminimous. But we'll have that discussion uh after we uh get to that'll be the last two things that we handle on
the agenda. Uh at this time, what we're going to do is we're going to go ahead and ask anybody in the audience that might want to come and address the planning commissioners about anything that may not that's currently not on the agenda. All right. Very good. So, we'll get
right to the agenda. All right. So, the first thing we have here is an application for a partial split. I think the corporation is called Amber Radar, Inc. Sir, if you don't mind coming to the podium, Mr. Kenishi, >> am I pronouncing that right? >> Khichi. >> Khichi.
>> Kichi. >> Thanks, Khichi. Kichi. All right, sir. Do you mind just giving us sort of a summary about what it is that you'd like to do? >> Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, thank you for the opportunity. We we we have a property
that you know total u the lot the square foot is 1.36 acres. >> Um it has um one property sitting on it. uh one one side of it that's just maybe about approximately 1,900 square foot
and then we have the rest of the lot the the better part of the lot that doesn't have a pond or water or something just um pretty much vacant and uh so we wanted to do a lot split uh
to you know the new lot would be about over 1,500 square foot Uh 15,000 square foot. Probably about 15,300 square foot. >> It's going to be about a third of an acre. Yes, sir. >> Yes. Yeah. >> About that, you know, and that's the
better part of the lot. Um and it's a corner lot uh at the corner of Hickory and 11th Street. Um so that's what we wanted to do. And if we if we had that new lot, then the address will be on the 11th Street. We wanted to now make the
the existing property to now be on Hickory Street instead. Um, very good. Uh, do any of the commissioners have any discussions for Mr. Kichi? >> I've driven by it. Um, so it looks like
you want to create 1507 facing 11th, >> but the actual dwelling that is there that you currently access from 11th, you want to make accessible from Hickory >> and that's the irony that the property there although the address is 11 Street
507 but the act the access >> yes >> is actually on Hickory >> yes and my home is situated similarly but where is the mailbox where does the house face it it's on that's on 11 >> I think if if there's one probably around
there if you know if if there's one yeah but there's no driveway there so Okay. >> There's no driveway on 11 Street. Um, so if the mailbox is there, then you probably will have to walk probably two two minutes, a minute or two.
>> Do you not receive any mail there? >> No. >> No, not at all. >> There's no mailbox. Okay. I thought I remembered seeing one on. >> If there's one, there's no there's we're not receiving anything because it's not active. >> Okay. So you're you're splitting what you're
splitting off would now be a vacant third acre lot on 11, >> right? >> Okay. >> For possibly new construction. Yes. >> And Mr. Khichi, it does look like you've got a circular drive already that faces Hickory Street, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Very good. >> So we now wanted that place to be the
front of that property since the driveway is there. >> And then so the the address of that lot, we are hoping we change it to Hickory. >> So you're you're going to end up with two lots. uh one of them just shy of an acre, the other one about a third of an acre. Uh one of them would be serviced
off of 11th Street and then one of them would be serviced off of Hickory Street and the homes directly to the east uh yeah to the east of you. Th those all access Hickory Street as well. >> So there's utilities coming off of that street and everything.
>> Okay, very good. And uh does Amber Radar Inc. do they own the property outright? >> Yes, >> they do. So there's no mortgage on it. And the reason the reason for the question is the state requires that uh all it's not that if you did have a mortgage on it, you couldn't split it,
but the mortgage holder it needs to be alerted and approves of it. So you own it outright. >> Yes. >> Any outstanding taxes uh on the property? >> Absolutely not. >> Because the state also the county actually requires that all current taxes be paid up to date. Um
so it looks like um you know there's there all the minimums are met. Uh we're going to end up with a third acre lot and a 1acre lot um well above uh the you know the standard. This is um this is low density residential area. Uh if he
wanted to he could actually put more properties on it as uh if he if he wanted to but it looks like it's just going to be divided into two. So pretty healthy decent size healthy lots. >> There is a question about a pond or something on the >> It's in the back. It's back here.
>> Uh but believe it or not, it's uh in terms of um in terms of your your overall property. um ponds and even wetlands are still considered as part of the total land mass for uh you know now
it may not be buildable but he's already got a property on it >> and it looks to me like he's got he's going to have >> the what will be uh the property line he's going to be 13 feet and 11 feet off and if it's a side property line we only
require seven u so he's well beyond that >> now this question for ification. >> Sure, please. >> How does he get the address switched from 11th Street to Her Street? >> Well, what'll happen is when he goes to when he actually goes to Bill Kinsel's
uh clerk of courts, what'll happen is they will end up with two different paral inform that this paral number, and it may not be the one that's currently there. Sometimes when you split them, they give you two separate partial, two different parcel numbers, not just the
one you're splitting off. So he'll get a new parcel number and then what'll happen is he'll tell them that this one is being accessed up >> and they they change the address >> and they'll change the address. Yeah. And then the other one is going to be accessed off of up of 11th Street. >> Yes, sir. >> Please.
>> So the investigation we've done at also you'll notice that the first partial number will stay the same. They'll change the next three. >> Very nice. >> Very good. Yeah, you can. And and if you go to that, you'll actually see five digits and then three zeros and then
usually another three zeros. that means it's not not been split. And uh good call out, Tony. You know, I'd read that sometime in my past and forgotten about it. So, yeah. Excellent. Good to good to know. So, um Mr. Kichi, any any other
questions you have for planning group? >> Not really. I I understand I'm supposed to also do this with you next week. >> Yes. What'll happen is um these commissioners anytime a property is split or combined or major project
occurs, it goes through planning first. These are the nuts and bolts people that that adhere to the rules and know the rules uh for our our municipality. And then we recommend to the council members who are the actual lawmakers one way or another. We have three options. We can
either deny it, approve it with conditions, or approve it outright. They'll get that information. they'll see that we went through the nuts and bolts of it and then they'll make their own decision and then if they agree to it then ultimately you'll get a letter uh from our our clerk uh and uh and then
you'll take that to Bill Kinsel's office uh when you actually do the when you apply for the different partial numbers. Okay. Okay. So, um I'm asking for a motion. >> I make a motion that we approve this. >> Very good. I have a motion on the floor. Do I have a second?
>> Second. I got a I got a first and a second. Madam clerk, can you take a vote, please? >> Mr. Hall? >> Yes. >> Mr. Paul Ring? >> Yes. >> Mr. Striker? >> Yes. >> Chairman Rigo? >> Yes. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you approving the city. >> Yes, sir. >> So, one thing I just address I was asked
to give this to you by the code officer. They've been trying to get you. >> Okay. Well, you want to call him again because he's been this has been returned to us. So, you want to call him and address this because I can't take you to the council until that's addressed.
>> Unless he sends >> Very good. Thank you, Mr. Gly. Appreciate it. >> All right. Very good. >> Is that on that property, Tony? >> The the the code violation on that property. Okay. Very good.
>> Cutting the grass. >> Cutting the grass. >> I didn't want to go that area because of all that stuff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We stopped mess up
that area. >> Well, certain grasses can be tall. Those are going to be uh like your decorative grasses, like your your you know your your different sand grasses and different things. But if it's normal grass that's just out of control, then
you got to help your neighbors out. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you'd attend to that, we'd sure appreciate it. And as Tony said, before they can take it to the lawmakers, apparently that's got to be addressed. So, if you'll get on that, that would be great. Thank you, sir. But you got an approval for this from this group. So,
thank you. All right. Uh, so Tony, uh, any chance you can come to the podium here? So, one of the things that Tony had asked us to look into, what do you want to what do you want to discuss first? Um go ahead minimus or food trucks.
>> Food trucks is going to be easy. >> Okay. >> You want to go there first? Okay. So um in 2024 uh Florida had a special meeting and then they uh updated that in 2025. It's
in uh section 509102. That's that paperwork that I had given you. And um the commissioners all Oh, Rich, I'm sorry. All right. So, what the state has essentially said is
um this I'll just read it so that there's no improper interpretation of it. So, the regulation of mobile food dispensing vehicles, which is what they call them, and temporary commercial kitchens involving licenses, registrations, permits, and fees is
preempted to the state. Okay, that's 2A. By the way, guys, in case a municipality, county, or other local government entity may not require a separate license, registration, or permit other than the license required under 509241,
which you have copies of 509241. uh or 509251. Okay. So essentially what 509241 is is um that is about getting the operating
license, how to maintain it, how to display it, and conditions for keeping it. I'll just break it down. That's when you when you look into it, that's really what it is. Those those four or five things. getting the getting it in the first place, how to maintain it, how to display it, and then the conditions for
keeping it. In other words, the penalties if if you lose it. Okay? And then 509251, what that is is just about licensing fees and that's how the fees are established, how to renew them, reasons that the state may may resend the the
license. Okay, that's really all that that is. So ultimately what they tell us is that a municipality, county, or other local government entity may not prohibit mobile food dispensing vehicles or temporary commercial kitchens from
operating with the entirety of the entity's jurisdiction. Now, when you read a little bit deeper into it, what you find out is that you do that you you can do that, but you have to do it through uh your comprehensive plan, through your zoning laws. So, for
example, uh let's say that in residential areas you don't want food trucks to operate. That's where you put that information. Okay? So um however um in every other area whether it's commercial mu1 mu2 or municipalities
any of those things essentially what you can do is you can um limit time that they're operating proximity but you have to do it through the comprehensive plan otherwise the state it's the state's baby under this 509
um and ultimately Uh Tony, I know you were looking for specific things because we have that big food truck. >> Well, it's not just that. We're we're dealing with one that is in residential. >> Yes. >> That we're trying to address. >> Okay. >> We're dealing with I mean, I think Mr. Merritt mentioned that we're also
dealing with the storage of food trucks. >> Yes. >> Where they're putting in when they bring them home and they're front, you know, where they need to be >> behind the yard or disclosed at. Also, we need to look at um kind of like either either times or the amounts of on one partial.
>> Well, that that you can't um because it's already uh that's under 3A. So, ultimately, uh under 3A, they essentially say that they can be there for 30 days and then they can get uh they can get extensions for that. >> I understand that, but I'm talking about
how many >> you saying when does it when does it comes per, you know, like we do, you know, lot size got to be 5,000 square foot, you know, how many can we allow or do we regulate allow on a partial? >> Essentially, what they're telling us is
that we we we can't do that. >> Residential partial. >> Well, you do that through your districts. In your district, you can go in and say that we do not allow food trucks in residential >> prohibited use. Yeah, they're they're telling us that they actually they they
make this one statement uh by saying from the operating within the entirety of the entity's jurisdiction, but then they they come to another paragraph where they specifically say that municipalities can regulate but through your comprehensive plan through your
through your your district. Okay. Um, >> so kind of what I'm asking is is like so by nothing that we have regulated, we wanted 20 food trucks all the way downtown the Parkway. There's nothing that prevents the city from allowing that.
>> Yeah. And there's nothing that regulates the condition or unless we go back to the eyesore. >> You're talking about operating or just being parked? >> Well, I'm just talking about well operating and being looked at. You know, we don't want to have a bunch of just >> run down the corridor of all this to
come. I mean, you can drive through Pamela City and some of the areas that have all these is not, you know, some of them are nice, but some of them are, you know, so the regulations are real. >> No, they have to pass a health inspection. >> When does a health inspection come along and >> Well, and that's the other question is
is, you know, we don't do the licensing check or the anything. So, that would be the health department and you know, you're here today, gone tomorrow, >> gone in a couple hours >> because it is the state that regulates that. That's going to be under 509241.
Uh that's um you know it it talks about you know the state ultimately can refuse to issue a license or renew a license um you know if within the preceding five years has been adjucated guilty of or is forfeited a bond when charged with any
crime reflecting unprofessional character including solicitation of different things. I mean, they're they're ultimately they lay out the reasons where you why you would essentially lose your license there. Essentially, what the state though is
saying is that we we can't we can't say in the city of Parker, we're only going to allow 20 food trucks. They're they they've been pretty clear about that. What we can say is where they can operate. For example, let's say um a
restaurant is uh you know they're they they come to Donna every year and they they re-up their annual business license. We can say um we don't want a food truck interfering with that business. So, uh you can't ultimately be
within so many feet of that particular uh fixed restaurant. We can we can make those rules. Okay. But we just written here where it says they can be though. But >> well well they can make a rule. >> They can if they have like a commissary agreement because food trucks are kind
of unique. I mean >> it's a whole different thing. I said I'm not against them. I like them. I wish we had more of them here. But I just want to know what we're going to before it off. >> Oh yeah. I get it. and and uh and probably one of the most the the prominent reasons why food trucks burned
up all over the place is like incident like new like Mex like uh you know Mexico beach where all the restaurants got wiped away and then they were thankful to have food trucks move in in order to kind of feed the workers and the builders and all those guys and I
just Kim and I just drove through Mexico Beach last weekend and they don't they don't have a problem. I mean, >> well, they I think they don't quote me on this, but I think they're working on something >> similar >> in their city, too. >> Really? Because we we drove through and
you might see in in all that entire strip, you might see five, six food trucks, and believe me, they're probably appreciated. >> Yeah. Um, but anyway, the the key message is that the state pretty much holds most of the regulation. And what
they're essentially saying is that if you want to regulate it, you can, but you have to do it through your district and and saying that they're either they're not allowed in this, but you know, like your lowdensity residential areas, or you can specifically say uh I
don't want them operating near a uh you know, near a a fixed restaurant. And likely they probably wouldn't anyway because you know, they can't just pull into your driveway and open up their doors. I mean, you're going to own the driveway right there. Um, so they do
have to get permission to uh come to like different parks or different events. And in fact, a city and municipality can say, "Okay, we're going to hold an event uh and Fourth of July event or something like that. We'd like to employ five or six food trucks and
and and uh what you what you can do is have them provide uh like an entrance fee in order to operate on that day. And then you can direct uh how how long they can be there. And you can say things like you have to close down at 10 o'clock. And you can say things like, "I
want my fire department to go ahead and inspect you because I see those big propane tanks on there." You do have that flexibility >> because you're the property. >> Well, well, bec Well, the city Yeah. Well, the city would be doing city, right? >> Yeah. But even if if they're going to
operate in Parker, you can set up a rule that says, I want the Parker uh um department, you know, the fire department to inspect that particular uh food truck to make sure that it doesn't represent any kind of a liability or
safety issue for them. Anyway, so that's just for your reading. uh and uh I didn't intend for this to be uh for us to come up with the solutions for how we're going to regulate them, but just be aware of of what the restrictions are and then and then we can actually put
together some recommendations to Tony that we don't have a whole lot of recourse. Well, I think what happened was uh if if you go into other material, I think municipalities got crazy and they
started regulating uh industries >> charge fees and licensing and all that. That's when the state pulled it away. >> And you know, my heart is more uh in a conservative. I I think the less government intrusion >> perhaps the better. Uh and then when
somebody gets out of line and you have a problem, then you fix the problem. But like I say, you know, lawmakers get to Washington DC and and they double the size of the Federal Register. There are laws in the book. I guarantee you when you drive out of this driveway and drive home, you'll probably commit three or
four infractions that you don't even know about because when they get there, they think their job is to make new laws and that's silly. We shouldn't be doing. So anyway, so uh just read through that and then what we'll do is um so Tony, is
there anything you want us to focus on uh in terms of what you'd like us to >> Well, the biggest one was making sure we probably need to see about in the comp doing the prohibited and residential. >> Okay. >> And then I know Mr. Merritt brought up about storage of those. So we might want
to address where our food trucks put up at. And then storage of it. >> Now is the same. Can they store in their personal lot much like you would a RV or a boat? >> Well, I think what he was more thing is is these people that are independent
food trucks, they just drive them home and you got to come home every day and look at it in the driveway. I think that's what he was that, you know, it needs to be in the backyard or it needs to be, >> you know, left on the partial where you're vending at or something. And I don't think that's an issue because quite frankly um
>> you know for sheds for example right now we say you can't put a shed in your front yard, put it in your sidey yard, your backyard >> and and that's you know to kind of help the beautifification of the neighborhood. >> And I don't see any restrictions here in that 509102 that would prevent us from
saying something like that >> because it's not in operation usually >> but residential restrictions and then where they're stored. Anything else we should focus on. >> So I don't think we can address you know setbacks or spacing or you know
>> Yeah. See the language is pretty specific. It's operation within the entirety of the entity's jurisdiction. Operation is not parking it. >> Operation is while it's in while it's actually conducting business. >> So um we do have some flexibility there.
>> They must have a strong lobby though. knows any. >> Well, yeah. And sometimes the state goes the opposite direction. >> All right. Very good. >> Okay. >> So, uh we'll we'll focus on those two things. Residential restrictions and
where to store them when they're when they're parked, right? >> Okay. Very good. Very good. Okay. And then the next thing on the agenda was um we currently have some items uh that are
within the land development rules uh that are considered dimminimous. They are they are structures that are less than 120 square foot in size. They're they're actually not dimminimous. However, they still have to be 5 foot off the off the property line. Um they
still have to uh meet a certain setback. They still have to be 120 square feet or smaller. Um they're the wear of it is controlled. For example, you can't put them in your front yard. You have to has to be in the sidey yard or or rear yard.
Um and Tony had asked us to look into um see if I can remember this. So, um, when a structure of 120 square feet or smaller is being constructed, um, not a license that you would pay
for, but sort of an inspection protocol to make sure that it's appropriate. Is that right? >> Yeah. Just like a site plan approval, just come out, fill out a site plan, and you want to, you know, then we just basically let you know if you're overimperous or, you know, inform you of your setbacks, stuff like that, just to
make sure that someone don't slide in their fifth shed. >> Okay. So, we wouldn't send anybody to their house. >> Most of it would be just a desktop review. >> Okay. So, really, so we would ask them to essentially draw a picture of where you want to put this thing and then uh
and then just have the city take a look at it. >> Yeah. Like I said, we've had one or two come in through since then. Like I said, it's been no fee. It's just been look at it, you're good to go. >> Yeah, that's cool. And I'd be okay with that entirely. Uh but mission creeps sometimes happen. And we may say, "Hey,
that that sounds good." But then three years from now, somebody says, "Okay, we're actually looking this. Why don't we charge 50 bucks for this and then a hundred bucks?" So maybe we could put that in that this is currently a dimminimus. So really a site plan approval. So what would we require of
the of the of the applicant that they draw? >> Yeah. normally will just you just come in and fill out like an accessory structure application with no fee. >> If it's under and it'll basically say on the application um the accessory structures right now have a fee. But the
accessory structure application would say if it's under 100 square feet then no fee applies >> and then then it's just their name, their address, how much square foot they already have on the property. And then when they flip it over there's just for them to draw where it's at, what they got. >> Okay. When do we inquire about the
safety of the structure, i.e. a couple of skids and some sheet metal that in a hurricane is going to decapitate someone? I mean, are we ever involved in anything like that? >> Normally, the only time we can get involved that way is if it's a code issue. >> Most people that are coming in doing
this are new structures. It's not something that they're building, >> right? >> I do. >> Yeah. A portable building company or somebody's just coming to slide it in. But if it is just a Home Depot shed kit, we're not we're not gonna not worry. >> Well, if it's a Home Depot shed kit, it
has to uh it's going to come with certain wind resistance requirements. Uh because they they can't literally sell them at this Home Depot in Florida unless it meets the Florida building codes for sheds. >> It's got it'll generally what what there will be there's a couple of different
styles out there now. There's ones with a foundation and ones without. >> You can order them on Teeu. I don't know. Worry about the tie down. That was what they >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Wonder how long that would take to get here from off of a freighter
wind. >> Yeah. So, the ones you buy at Lowe's, Home Depot, any of the building shops, they're going to have a wind resistance requirement. Uh they're going to they're going to probably have ties and everything, and they're also going to um and and that that's going to be
required. they can't sell them unless they they meet that requirement. Then there's another one and that is one that they are pre-built that actually go onto a foundation and then those are bolted down to the concrete. Um that's Florida building code requirements.
So u really it would just be we're asking them to draw a picture. >> We're asking them to what their name and address is. We're telling them that if it's under 120 square feet there's no there's no fee. Would it go through uh through your group then in planning? So
wouldn't >> we're just going to look at it like a driveway. >> Wouldn't have to go to wouldn't have to go to council for their approval. Okay. >> So like I said, normally it should we should be able to approve them the same day almost. All we do is a desktop review, pull it up on GIS, look at it, do the calculations, and then we're good to go. Then we'll send them an approval.
>> All right. Very good. Okay. >> I think there's a couple of properties that have about there's one that has 12. Are they are they violating the the impervious laws? >> Absolutely they are. >> But the problem the problem you have is is that >> some of these that have done this
already you can't see it. So you can't >> is it is it extensive? Is that issue I mean do we see a lot of those? >> I think there's two or three properties that way. >> Yeah. >> Two or three properties. >> Two or three. Now is there a difference if it's on concrete versus blocks? I was told that if it's on blocks it doesn't
violate the improvement. >> No. So we were we're having a back and forth with a gentleman right now with impervious and basically if it's shedding the water no matter if it's off the ground if it's a carport pole barn whatever it's considered impervious in calculations. >> I gota
>> um carports now now on the on the carports so you've got a roof over uh like grass. >> Well that's that's the most people have who have those have gravel. >> Yeah. And then per what we've looked in the thing now, if the gravel is for
vehicle storage, yeah, it's classified as impertous. >> Okay. >> If you put a boat or vehicle on that gravel, it's now considered pert. >> Okay. >> As per the LDR, it says that it's ve for vehicle ratio, whatever, if it's not landscaped with grass or dirt back that
way, then it's a purchase. >> It even for gravel because I thought you get a different R value. So even in the past, we I always assume that 40% impervious said if you have one acre of land 40% of it um has to be uh if it's
if it's or less of it has to be impervious but then the R values came up our values are your your your values associated with the water seeping into the ground and uh the engineer the engineering studies I've read shows that
as long as you could have a roof over it uh and If it's gravel, gravel takes on a different R value than like concrete. Concrete is going to be 100%. It's going to be 100. Gravel is like uh is going to end up being like something like 0.5 or
6. So what you do is if you've got a if you even if you've got a roof over it, if it's a 10 by 10, you take up let's say it's 0.5 and you cut that in half and then you come up with your impervious. >> So we've been going back and forth with the attorney and the engineer on this
because we have property owner that has 90% of his property covered gravel. Um and so per the LDR in the thing it says that if you've built or done something haven't turned it back into the landscaping condition >> and you have used gravel for vehicle
parking or storing is considered a purchase >> really because I know that when we um were approving some years ago this storage facility over here uh we were looking at a portion of it being gravel and we had to
look at our values in order to come up with the appropriate imperous nature of their land. So maybe that some of that >> I said I've challenged both of them, the attorney and the engineer to find out what an order value is of gravel. >> Yeah. >> And they basically just kept directing me to the
>> I've got it on my desk actually the statute in the LDR that says that it's for vehicle parking is calculated as impervious. >> Interesting. Okay. Very good. So it is. So we're essentially going to interpret 40% impervious as if it's gravel, it's impervious. Okay. All right. Very good.
Okay. So >> if it's for vehicle storage, now if it's for flower beds around the house or decoration or whatever, it's a little different, but they're if you're driving vehicles over and compacting it and storing and parking under it, then you're they're consider. >> Very good. So um site plan. So draw a
picture, name and address. Anything under 120 square feet uh will ask for it to essentially come to planning for their review, right? >> No, it doesn't come to you either. >> No, you you you because you're in charge of plan. You're in charge of the
planning guy, right? >> So So what would you call yourself then? >> Well, it it'll just have what it'll be the same. All of it's going to be the same thing. It's just going to be a plan planning department review. >> Okay. A review. We'll just call it a review.
>> There you go. But but non no lawmakers. >> It's just like an accessory structure would all be done local. >> Let me ask for a volunteer then uh to go ahead and come up with some loose language that might meet this requirement that could be fit into the I
think it'd be section six six of the dimminimous right section six article article six. So probably it would go in right after um item one, two or three where it talks about what is dimminimus.
Um can I ask for a volunteer to come up with the things? So uh so these these would be the requirement of the applicant to draw a picture of what they intend to do. Um that we want their name and address and other contact
information. uh if it's less than 120 square feet and we're talking about anything 120 square feet. So, we're talking about a you know a con we're talking about a concrete deck, we're talking about uh you know an area that you want to gravel uh a shed,
anything like that that it would come to Tony's group for review um and that there would be no fee associated with it. >> Can I ask my volunteer to put together? Can it be a group thing? Can be a joint absolutely effort. >> Yeah, absolutely. Normally, I'd be glad
to do it. I'm going to be kind of out of pocket medically for the next with my estate assistant. >> You'll take it. Yay. Cool. >> And Rich um right down the street. >> Thank you, Rich. We can actually send you over excess rest application so you
can just see what only thing really is going to change on that is no fee under 120 ft. >> And Rich, I honestly think less is better because this is dimminimous already. uh and u so uh I I think it might be simple sentences that identify
that even though this is dimminimous uh the city is requiring the following uh that we receive uh you know if a structure uh 120 square feet or smaller is to be put on the property uh that uh
it is able to receive review Tony what's your actual title >> public works director >> what is it >> director works director Public works, >> public works, public that it be review through the public works director office
uh for proper setback um impervious nature um and uh and appropriate um you know in terms of in terms of uh I think that
would be it right. Draw a picture. Oh, and draw a picture. Draw a picture. >> Oh, sure. They're they're pretty simple. >> Thank you for volunteering that. Okay. >> All right, Tony. Anything else? >> So, the two items I was going to bring you
because we still we still we still need to talk about the uh possibly setting a minimum structure requirement for residential the square footage of the home because tiny home we couldn't find anything that's you can't have a tiny home, but
there's nothing that says your house has to be state law, state law, Florida state law dictates a tiny house that's 400 ft and smaller, >> right? >> But what I'm saying is, do we want to set anything that your house must be 600
ft or are you okay with 500 foot homes being a resident lot? you know, because we have some lots that have 2,000 foot homes and if someone buys that lot and they come in and put a 500 foot home on there, what's that going to do to
you know, I don't know if you want to regulate it by residential or you want to address it at all. We just had one house come which is going to be house reference
somewhere around00 years ago. >> And the reason I asked is because we're getting this So, I can't tell them and they're specifically asking what's the smallest home to build >> really >> because it's a very
lot. >> Well, we know if it's residential, it's no no more than five per acre. And we know if it's MU1, we regulate that through district. And if it's any one, it's no more than 15 dwellings per
acre. And that's usually going to be like an apartment complex or duplex or something. >> I am finding that while May has a loan number, most lenders have what's called an overlay. So depending on whe you handicap yourself
Yeah, I'm just >> Yeah, I'm just looking at y'all to give me some, you know, try to guidance in that book just so it's easier to see a little bit as your default >> number. That's a really good pathway. Um,
>> there's one under there. >> I think it might be. Yeah, >> so we want to we want to think about the Would we do this in every in every area of the city or just low density residential? >> Residential.
>> Yeah, low density resial. >> Yeah. You don't want them to go where you got big lots like Donaldson Point build a 600 foot house. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, they handicap themselves because here's another thing you may not realize.
>> You can have a very small home on a very pricey lot. Fanny May, Freddy Mack, mortgage entities also have a land to value. There must be 65% of the value in the dwelling, not the dirt. You can have a shack that's got a great waterfront view. Freddy won't touch it.
>> So 65% of the value has to be in the building. That's where square footage comes in. >> Correct. But long as you don't ever intend to sell it at least to somebody that might need financing >> is the is the concern that um first of
all what's your comment please? >> I know my experience with homeowners associations where they mandate you have to minimum square footage built to keep uph that that realm but if there's a
subdivision and currently the average square footage of the existing houses can you subdivision maintain a
for that area. Maybe this area is an 800 square foot area. >> I don't know. Putting it out there. I know the city's not in the neighborhood association business. But
if I've got a house that's 2,000 square feet, I'd be pretty upset if somebody want to keep my property value as much as possible. >> Yeah. Yeah. Appraisers will make adjustments to
value. If a if a 2500 foot house next door to an 18,800 foot house sells and they have near identical amenities, but there's just everything's smaller. Appraisers will make adjustments to value for that. If that particular property is a comparable for a sale,
there's usually a timeline. So, it's not forever a comparable. It's usually within six months of the one being appraised. You mentioned two considerably larger houses. Both those homeowners have an 800 foot
house built next door to them. >> Why don't why don't we do this? Um the state of Florida has come up with uh they had special session both in 2025 and early 2026 on uh personal property rights. So let's
say you go buy a piece of property, okay, and you buy a halfacre of land. Um they the state has seen what they call promiserary stoppple lawsuits, >> which if you don't know what that is, essentially if I buy a parcel of land
and I anticipate that it would be appropriate for me to build a 650 foot home, but then a municipality says, "No, no, you you have to build an 800 foot home." They're being sued and the municipalities are losing those lawsuits because of promisary est. What it
essentially is is um if if if you think that it's an appropriate thing to do, uh you know, to be able to build a home on an open lot and then you've invested the money and then all of a sudden you're told no because of some law that that is put out there, you could and and and
there perhaps other homes that are nearby uh that are of of the same size you wanted to build, then they have a pretty good suit on their hand. So, why don't we do this? Why don't we >> why don't we explore the rules around personal property rights first to make
sure we're not violating any state laws. Okay. Um and then what we'll do is come back with a recommendation because it might be like a percentage of the neighborhood rather than an actual size. Rather than come back and say Tony make it 700 or
800 or whatever it might be 20% small. It can't be any smaller than 20% of the small of the smallest home in a given subdivision. So if you've got one that's already a thousand square feet, can't be any smaller than 800 square feet. I think that might be more reasonable and
it might be a little bit more what we're trying to do because I hear the concern. The concern is I got a 2,000 foot home. I don't want a 500 foot home being built next to me. But if you had a 2,000 foot home, somebody built a 1600 foot home, probably you wouldn't have an issue,
right? So maybe it would be a percentage based on surrounding homes rather than an actual number. >> But let's explore the the the laws first because that would be we don't want to put something in the LDRs that's illegal, you know. Okay. So just based
on a percentage possibly of of other of other properties that are nearby within, you know, a given radius, right? What I'm seeing is if you wanted to try to default to use Fanny, Freddy, Jenny as guidelines, you'd be disappointed
with the 400 number I'm seeing. >> Oh, yeah. Well, the 400 is just >> that's minimum square footage to get approved for a loan through those entities. But if we wanted to use that argument >> Oh, did you say 700 earlier or 400? >> Because some lenders Yeah. >> for example, the mortgage company I used
to work for, we we originated loans for all those entities, but we didn't want to anything less than 700. >> I see. >> So, we had what's called a lender overlay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Find a way to get to Fanny, Freddy, Jenny direct, but you're not going to do it through me. >> And that was And you run into that. Some
of the big entities, say Wells, Bank of America, I don't know what their policies are, but and again, that only matters if any future buyers are going to seek leans if they want to be able to buy a property with a mortgage on it. Cash buyer doesn't matter.
>> Very, very good. >> I'm not really for telling what they can do on their own land that you don't want them hurting >> harming their neighbor. Yeah. >> And in fact, the LDRs when we rewrote those a couple years ago, that was sort of the doctrine. The doctrine was don't hurt your neighbor, whether it's
flooding your neighbor because you just built a hill in your yard that you know or whatever. Um, okay. Very good. So, let's do that. So, we'll explore the personal property rights first to make sure we're not stepping in any laws that the state has already established for us. And, uh, and then we'll come back
with recommendations for next month. >> If anyone knows an appraiser that we can have in this powell, yeah, >> they'll be able to tell us if they can make adjustments to value to then it's not our problem. We don't have to police it more or less because it's all going to happen in math when a property
appraises where it doesn't appraise. So, it may all happen in those adjustments to value because it does now. Um, and contrarily, if my little 2200 square feet, if someone wants to build 3,000 next to me, hallelujah,
>> and and that the old mantra, never buy the best house in a neighborhood. Always buy the the worst or the cheapest. >> Concerned with five houses, >> that's the luck of the draw. I've been next to some of those neighbors before that just didn't take care of their
homes. Mr. >> Please. >> RV temporary RV mobile >> temporary. Okay. >> Possibly removing mobile home office.
>> Temporary RV and mobile home. Okay. >> Permit actually states that it's allowable in the LDR for mobile >> while while building is is going on >> building or to have a family relative
>> we've had that next door too >> want to poss. >> I think the um I think the concept of that was that those mobile homes would be like construction offices. >> Yeah.
>> RV is we've had some contractors ask 5 footage and they're wanting you to look at the engineers also that there's nothing
in the square that addresses towns. So developers homes would like to cities. Well, the 5,000 was the minimum size uh for an and the whole concept there was
you've got 43,560 square feet in an acre. And uh your smallest lot actually in a residential area is probably going to be closer to a 20th of an acre, which is going to be about 8,500 8,800 square feet. And then
>> m and then mus was dropped to 5,000 because we didn't want to into a situation like they've got out in, you know, Panama City Beach where you had multiple, you know, >> what we have here is like we have one development that's already here, that's already established and he can't build
exactly what's already there because of our restrictions. >> Yeah. And so he's just asking these structures. It's just something I just bring it to the anchor would like to have it home
specifically called out. So that is what it is. Well, what it does say in ME1 though is um well, the the the minimum lot size has got to be 5,000 square feet, but it does say that you cannot put no more
than 15 dwellings uh into an acre of of land in that MU1 area. That was designed intentionally in order to prevent overcrowding. I thought I might bring it to you and
have a conversation because like I said, we have a complex and they're trying to copy what's already there. >> Yeah. But you know, our city only became
what's there, right? >> Yeah. And at the end of the day, town didn't become a town until 1967. And and there's a lot of homes that were built before any rules got into place. And the rules were designed in order to protect your neighbor and to prevent flooding
and in order to created a, you know, a vision of what the city could eventually look like. Okay, we'll do it though. So, uh, let's I'll just ask everybody to review take a look at the MU1 is specifically. He wanted MU1, right? >> I think it's I think MU1 and two are both 5,000.
>> Okay. So MU1 and two MU1 and and just kind of think about um you know is that outdated does it need to be updated for certain reasons. So that would be the five that's the minimum lot size in order to build a dwelling start
with a dwelling park as soon as this water line comes down that side's going to develop. So that's what a lot of these developers are called houses >> driving
that's off the callway side or I guess >> it turns to us right there all the way down all the woods and everything down. >> Okay, very good. Thank you Tony. Appreciate it. Terry, thank you again for driving to Gavl last month. Really
do appreciate it. any anything you want to share with the the group >> if we need to approve last week's minutes apostrophe on my side. >> All right. >> Anything? Yeah, we what we'll do is uh we're a little short-handed at the city
right now. So, we'll we'll probably review the minutes for both meetings perhaps next month. Uh and anything for the group? Thank you very much for that information on banking and uh Fanny and Freddy stuff. That was very interesting. This is very interesting. It's small
though. So I was disappointed to see the number is only 400. So FHA, VA, and conventional 400. >> It's got to be a minimum 400. >> Minimum 400. Interesting. >> And again, the only reason that some lenders that that originate those loans
want something larger because occasionally we have to buy back >> from those entities if if something underperforms. So a lender can have what's called an overlay to protect themselves. And so the consumer knows that I want that, but they can't get to it because they've got to go through
someone. They can't go straight to those entities. But anyway, just a guideline. >> Very good. Anything else you want to share with the group Ann or >> Donna? Anything you want to tell us that we need to know? Okay, Rich, thank you for volunteering. So, essentially what
we're going to do is uh Rich is going to come up with some loose language around um you know, this issue regarding current dimminimous property. I I'll share my notes with you and then uh we're going to think about um uh the language that's currently utilized in
the temporary RV and mobile home parks uh which allow them to be in place for up to year. What's the what's the term we use for blood relatives? Sanguinity. Sanguinity. They have to be the same sanguinity which means direct blood relative. So we'll look at that. And
then also uh we'll look at the MU1 and MU2 5,000 foot minimum lot size. Uh see if that needs to be updated in some way. Okay. >> We think that on the RV issue, the one concern we had about a neighbor that was doing that, where was the sewage going?
And if they're tied in straight to Parker, they're not being charged. >> They are. >> So they do. >> Okay. and the one I've seen it that was in my neighborhood that is now gone wasn't hooked up to anything but a garden hose.
So >> there we go. So that might address some of it but if they've gone through the motions to put everything else in place >> code issue only during emergency emergencies is something like that allowed. >> Got it. >> Very good. Everybody, thank you again.
Rich, I'll share my notes with you. We'll close the meeting. Appreciate it.