Right. Very good. Terry, could we ask you to give us our invocation, please? Our heavenly father, we thank you for this day you've given us. We thank you for the time to come together with fellow citizens that look into what the how what the development for our special
town should be. We pray for Kyle and his family and the loss of his grandfather. These things we ask in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thank you, sir. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Terry. Thank you, Rich. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your interest in what goes on in the city uh and for being here at the
September 9th planning commission meeting. We have one uh man down, but we have a quorum. So, this is a legal meeting. Uh, today we have uh five things on the agenda and uh but before we get to the agenda, uh what we'll do is we'll ask our our um Madame Clerk to
do a roll call, please. Mr. Hall here, Mr. Merritt's absent. Miss Ping present. Mr. Striker here. And Chairman Ra here. Thank you. Did everybody get a chance to review the minutes from our last meeting? No. All right. Very good. And I'll either
ask for a motion to adopt or changes. Make a motion we adopt. Okay. Can I get a second, please? Second. Very good. Can I get a vote, please? Brilliant. Mr. Hall, yes. Miss Powering, yes. Mr. Sharker, yes. Chair, yes. And thank you. I I really do like the new summary uh that you've been
putting together. Ladies and gentlemen, as I'd mentioned, we have five things on the agenda today. Uh however, we also give our audience member an opportunity uh to come to the podium and speak about anything that's not on the agenda. Is
there anybody in the audience today that would like to address the the commissioners about some other item that is not on the agenda? Pat, how are you? I'm good. Thank you. Oh, good. That's okay. Hey, hey, hey, you all had
Hey, listen. We got married yesterday. No, just a joke. Just a joke. Patick, 1544 Stratford. Um, just a question. I I was unable to attend the last meeting, but I did watch the video and then I also read the minutes. Um, I
recall, let me put my glasses on. Oh, the development for the U-Haul company on uh Highway 98 on Tindle Parkway in the CRA area. Yes, sir. And the commission said that, you know, because of that there's there's all these other requirements that have to be met. Parking
requirements, building l roof lines, all of that stuff out in the CRA. Yes, ma'am. And yet the commission approved the plan and I saw the drawings um having seen the changes. Can I make a slight can I make a slight
uh because we didn't approve it because we have three options. we approved with those conditions that those conditions be met and that the council members be made aware of the specific requirements for the CRA area number two three number
for area three. Okay. And you're correct. Forgive me. I worry myself. No worries. I guess my question is because the planning commission really seems to spend time working and looking at the the rules the CRA again your have you
have a very finite focus versus the council is dealing with everything. And I know the council gets the final say, but I think that's the first time it's ever happened where there's such a ma in my opinion what appears to be a major change that it's not going to come forth
back before the planning commission. Is that what what's happened? Here's here's why we made those moves. Uh first of all, it was a major development because it's in commercial and they're expanding beyond the the current building that's there. The only thing that they did not meet
was the CRA requirements. So the nuts and bolts of what we do has more to do with is are they violating any impervious areas? Is it in the right district? Um anything relating to when they do build a building. The only thing
we saw was that it was in violation of the CRA area number two. Did you say or three? So, uh, and our council members are very aware because they adopted those those concepts in terms of how
they want that area one, area two, and then area three to look. It's our council members that said in area one, that's going to be the the jewel of Parker. Those have to have downward lighting. It's got to have fantail driveways. So we, you know, it's got to,
it's got to be a certain material of the building, brick or other common materials, uh, colors, roof lines, things of that nature. So because they're familiar with what those requirements are and because there weren't any egregious violations to what
they're doing, we essentially said as long as you fix the what we've identified, roof lines, colors, fan tail driveways, downward lighting, uh don't violate the vision triangle. Uh because if you looked at their plans that they
did show us, it was pretty extensive already. Yes. and everything else they were doing in terms of the foliage, the trees, the the the uh the sidewalks, everything. And they said they did want to be a good neighbor. So,
we tend to want to believe that. And but before they come to the council members, they have to show the council members what they're going to do. And the council members will get our opinions based on everything looked good except
for just a few things. I didn't want as you know because when we rewrote the land development rules, one of the issues had been things take too long and we didn't want to be a cog in the wheel. We saw that they were trying to do everything right, but they're probably
unaware of that section. So, we made a a decision to uh conditionally approve it and as long as the council members were made aware of what we said needed to be altered. Okay. You're welcome. Thank you, Pat. Anybody
else? Okay, let's get to um so I don't know if Mr. Griffin is here today. Uh I had heard that he may not show up for this. Uh okay, we're going to go ahead and and go on to item number two then. Um so is
Mr. Abu in the audience here? Mr. Abu, how are you, sir? Hello, Mr. Boo. Would you do us a favor? Go ahead and state your name so that we can capture it on the camera as well as our clerk can capture it. And then if you don't mind, I know it's been some time since the last time you were here.
So, if you'll take a a few moments and give us a brief summary of what you're doing, that would be much appreciated. Okay. My name is Omra. I'm the owner for IA property LC and I've been working on development
in 493 South Drive uh two four plot expired we renew it again did a permit again and then we got stopped because front of the board again because the
city is us extension. Okay. And for some reason they wasn't able to do that. Uh pay the fee went to EPCI. EPCI approved that again. This where I'm at and right now I need
to I want to go ahead and get the approval so I can start the work. 493 and this is for a variance. Is that right? Uh because are you still looking
to uh build multiple dwellings in a the single family area? So the approving that I got last time from you guys was for two buildings, four units, but I will not be able to separate out or sell
it out as a separate And I mentioned that I'm not trying to sell it. I'm trying to keep it and do more development in the area. I think the last was it 2021 that you came before us. The first one time.
Okay. And there were still structures there at that time part those buildings were still partially there. Is that right? Correct. I I I look back at uh what happened back then and um we because you know that the
district doesn't agree with that style building right there that's in a low density residential area. The reason it was allowed to go through the first time is because it was close enough to Hurricane Michael. There's a rule that we have within the land development rules which identifies if it's a legal
non-conforming structure and as long as 50% of the property value hadn't been destroyed by the storm, then you have the right to to rebuild it. But I'm looking at the satellite photos now and I'm seeing there's nothing there. It's gone.
Okay. So So it was two approval. Yes. The approval while the building still was there. Yes. This was one of the approval. Yes. Which after assessing the damage and we decided we're clearing it all out and then to go
back to the city do the approval again. We had some requirement for fire marshals to provide plants for fire. And when did that happen Mr. Abu? I want to say 22. 2021. Probably. Okay. Very good. March. Okay.
And we I was ting in a project that I did on Panama City Beach and Springfield and money was tight in different projects and I was going to start I have all the
team the contractor everything and get got to a point where I wasn't in the state came back from overseas and wanted to start a project and all of a sudden I call from EPCI understanding
that I have to renew my permits. Yeah. Went through the process because they had all expired. Is that right? Being expired. Yes, sir. Correct. And went through the process again. They told me that I have to go to the city of Arer, redo the development order, the development order extension. Came over
here, read the application, pay the fee to get to EPCI. I spoke with the parker office over here. Uh they issue me the permits again. I called my engineer which he
been with me the entire process uh to stay the ground that we ready. Everything is ready to move. We did that. I'm getting a call from the call enforcement a week later. Are you guys not supposed to do that? Um like why are we not supposed to do that? We went
through all the channels that you know we had to do and they mentioned they wasn't supposed to giving us the development order again. I had to go through the I have to come through this process again.
Yeah. And that's because everything had expired and so much time had elapsed and then we have to look at the project again today based on today's uh credentials based on what's going on today. And the the land development rules have actually um uh were rewritten
in 2022. So they were probably a little bit more lax uh back then. But one of the things that was peppered throughout the land development rule is the concept that we don't want to do any harm to your neighbors. So being in a and and now we
also have a situation there was even a special session by the state in late 2024 and early 2025 that ultimately spec specifically identifies that municipalities must be true to their districts or figure out ways to
eventually get to the point where through attrition those districts become pure. Um so in other words, if we have identified an area to be four lowdensity residential homes, one one dwelling per per building um with whatever those
density rules are, I think they're five dwellings per acre, things of that nature, uh then we have to stick to those things. um unless it's within the land development rules and we can specifically point to verbiage that
allows for those things to something to uh be rebuilt back in that that area uh because of something like a legal non-conforming structure. Um what we relied on the first time was because that structure was still there
and an engineer had our engineering company had said uh the building was not damaged more than 50% we could then refer to the verbiage and the land development rules and specifically say you can use the council we we gave advice to the council members that they
could use the legal non-conforming structures rules in order to rebuild this property and then I think they they gave you the green light to to do that. But again, that was about four years ago. And uh so there's now we have the added pressure by the state and they do
harm municipalities. Um and then we also have the issues relating to um the same thing that applied four years ago doesn't apply anymore because now we've got nothing but dirt. Before we had a structure that
we could ultimately rely on. So we're we're in a we're in kind of a tough situation at this time. Okay. After Yes, sir. And it was after the structures were gone. Yes.
I just want to add to the to the conversation couple things. He did mention the projects that he had going on during that time. they had already commenced prior to receiving this.
So from a financial hardship standpoint, he had to focus on those. I see. And it was on me that I allow them to collapse. I should have been more engaged in helping him to know when it
was time to extension. I didn't do that. But one thing that I know that municipalities are able to rely on is compatibility and I believe many variances are issued based on compatibility with the
surroundings. That's right. And as y'all are well familiar with that area that in general that area may have there may be a lot of properties that are non performance but there from a use standpoint
there's a lot of mixed use adjacent to single family multif family and single family and next door everything next door to this is all mult to the the rest of his multies. So
from a compatibility standpoint, this would be just as compatible as a single family. And that would be where I would request that this bearings be issued based on more so than the structure itself.
Yeah. because by the time the bill was issued the structure and I believe the city just had show but like I say a couple of things have changed there special session 2024 2025
municipalities are being pressured by the state in order to uh comply to whatever their districts are uh with penalties now uh unless we could specifically point to verbiage within our LDRs that allow us to do that. We were able to do that the first time.
We're in a a quandry right now because at this point we can't do that. There's nothing about that development where it's at right now that allows us to point to the LDR and and go back and say it's a legal non-conforming structure because there's nothing there.
So I guarantee you what Um's office would tell us uh you know and we're regularly in communication with them because we have to be careful not uh to violate uh you know what our rules are for fear of retribution in some kind. Um
they would probably say is there a reason that you couldn't you couldn't build single family homes where you were going to put those those duplexes? Is that a possibility? What would be required of him to what process would he have to go through to
to build single family homes there? Would it just be two two single family homes or how many uh how many is it one parcel of land? Okay. You would have to divide the two parcels. Okay.
If you wanted to build um a home on each parcel, you could. Uh the density rule right there is uh you need to start with at least 02 acres. Um, and the minimum lot size would be 7,500 square ft. Um, you know, that would be if you started
with 04 acres and you wanted one to be a little bit bigger, then the other one could be just a little bit smaller. You can't go smaller than 7,500 square ft. But right now, that would be the recommendation from the planning board. um because of where we're at today in
protection protecting the city for the future against retribution from the state and they they do things like pull cra they do all kinds of weird stuff. So, and they're telling us uh specifically in the new legislation that
that has to occur and that even those homes that that are in existence right now through attrition they want you to develop proactive steps that through attrition those go away and that district becomes pure. So, and there's
good reasons for that too. It's more about feelings than anything else. If if I've got a guy that is looking at building a large single family home in that area, uh quite frankly, he could be harmed by having a multiple family dwelling right next to it. Um that's
just the facts of real estate today. This what this what basically you telling me to do is to do a single family homes. Yes. In an area that there is apartments. Well, well, there there are there are other multiple dwellings there and those
are right now grandfathered in and if they were uh knocked down by a storm uh more than 51% damage, they went would then be forced uh to only put back single family dwellings in those areas. Our neighbor our neighbor over there
that worked without no permits and did whatever he wanted to and still construction going on on that side. Now, that's that that's for code enforcement. Uh we're we're the planning guys. Um so, um you know, you you ask the question, would he be
able to look into doing? Yeah. And and and the other the other thing, too, is if you do that, uh it it it's not a a major development. It's a minor development. And right now, the way things are, our city clerk approves that at her desk. So, um, it's and it's
cheaper, um, you know, from a from a permit standpoint, a thousand versus 350 bucks, you know, for the single family home. It depends on the style of home you build. Now, if you build a nice big home, you could, it's whatever it's
going to be. I mean, uh, just a few blocks in this direction, we've got $450,000 homes being built, uh, in in areas that aren't on the water or, you know, as nice as the property you're considering.
So, all I'm telling you is right now, if we're advisory only, but I'm giving you the what the rules are. And I know four years ago I remember your case because you're a heck of a nice guy and I remember we had something to stand on.
So we looked at it pragmatically and said we can look at this and we can do it because of this. But since then we've had four years pass and then we've also had a situation where the state is saying you got to be true to your district guys otherwise you're going to get hurt. And I can't I can't at this
point if I had to go to any of our council members and say it's okay to say yes to this, I'd also have to tell them. But you could also harm the city from the state standpoint. I'd have to give him that advice. Is there a way to know that ahead of
time is there specifically on this side? No. Only then what they they're telling us. I will tell you this. You could specifically go it's section 163. You can go read it for yourself. Section 163, special session in early January of
2025 where essentially was a warning to municipalities to be true to your districts. So there's no contact in that department. I would contact Uthmire's office. But um
what I'm what I'm essentially saying is there's probably four or five things today that may not have existed three four years ago that do exist today. So, if you want us to take a vote, I will tell you that we'll take a vote, but at the end of the day, um, our council
members will hear what how that vote came about and and why we voted it either one way or another and they'll they'll probably be dealing with the same information we we are. You suggest it was three or four years ago.
Well, 2021 is when Mr. Bu came before this committee in front of me and we discussed it and we had all the options back then and I even looked at the uh at the first time the gentleman came before us because I wanted to see exactly why we voted the way we did because I think
we gave you unanimous vote but it was based on legal non-conforming structure law that doesn't exist today but the development order got expired only in December 2024. Yes sir. And I thought he said two 2023
24 24 correct. Yeah. And we was back at the EPCI office already at the February of 2025. Yes, sir. Got extension from the city over here. Yeah. Went back with EPCI and got
and generally you've got six months after that development order is given before you have to start construction. And it sounds like even that's expired. So, gentlemen, I I I mean, I hate to say it, we're we're the nuts and bolts, guys. The council members rely on us to
know what the rules are. I'm telling you what the rules are. And I'm telling you that four years ago, we had a leg to stand on. Today, I couldn't I couldn't at all consciousness say it's okay to build a a you know, based on that original concept of legal non-conforming
structures because that doesn't exist. There's nothing there anymore. It's gone. compatibility, sir. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, this is John. He is He's just got the wrong name tag. Yeah. Yeah.
But I would I would think that the compatibility is is a is a viable reason for no because the concept is that those buildings are already there and the concept and the state is telling us that through attrition we have to get to the
point where we literally create triggers and the council members did that recently in the um in the recent land development rules rewritten in 2022. too. And what they said is that uh there are certain triggers. For example, one
of them would be if you got a multifamily dwelling and at any time you convert it to a single family dwelling, then it it can't go back. Another one is something uh for example, if there's any process that's in place where you're
converting it to a single family dwelling or if you ask for a variance in order to do something to that property and it's granted based on information you've given us about it being converted, then it can't go back. So, and now there's a trigger in place that
says if you have a non-conforming property before you can sell it, it has to then be that it has to then go back to uh being a single family dwelling. So, you you couldn't even you couldn't build today right now. You could not
build a multiple family dwelling in a low density residential area and then sell it as such. you'd have to sell it as a single family dwelling because the tri the state is pressuring municipalities to put triggers in place
so that those districts can become pure. But you keep mentioning that the structure was there when they g the second time which it wasn't it was development order but it was no structure. But Mr. We're here today and what's
happened right now today is there's nothing there. It's a it's a it's a it's a it's a flat piece of dirt. And the and the reason I mentioned that is because we relied on low density residential uh areas uh to give you that variance the
first time based on a concept that uh it was partially destroyed. Okay. Uh and and not more than 50% destroyed. So only then could we then tell our council members you can use this to allow them to move forward with that project. But
things changed and now we have the state telling us we have to be true to the district and we also have circumstance where you've got an empty field there. There's no structure at all today. I'm talking about right now. So gentlemen, I wish I could help you. I
could recommend only that we have to be honest with our council members because they expect 100% of that from us and at this point uh that lowdensity residential area is was designed and created by them. It's on that map right
there and they expect us to stick to those rules. So that's that's essentially what we're doing here today. You can build single family dwellings on those properties though. All right, sir. Mark. Yes, sir.
Might I suggest that we go through the seven points of the various test variance test before we Well, I proceeded any further. I went through it and and I I noticed that he uh see that that's another thing what John is getting at is you you failed the
variance test because each of those in order for it to be uh moved to the next step would ultimately have to be answered to the affirmative and and you didn't do that. So I thought I'd save a little bit of time. We can do that, John, if you'd like to, but there were
two of them that were answered to the no. And um if we're going to take a vote, I think we should at least discuss them. That's fine. That's fine. We'll do that. Okay. Okay. So, what John is recommending is that we read through the variance test.
Okay. And uh give the other council members. These various points are in the LDRs. section I think 6.3. Yes. Uh pertaining to variances. Uh there's seven points. They mirror the application that you submitted
for the variance. Uh the first one is there's a specific hardship affecting the development of the property resulting from the strict application of the provisions of these regulations. And your application marked. Yes. C exhibit B and it referred
to application your uh variance application that was included in our agenda today. John, do you have an exhibit B my packet? I I don't have anything marked. That was one of my questions.
So I guess can you tell the commission how uh or I guess identify what specific hardship affects the development that uh would result or what specific hardship
on the development would result from the strict application of the provisions of the LDR that designate this as a load isn't load low density residential uh land use district.
One I can tell you is just investment at this point with the area that neighboring structures are
not nearly quality structures. So in order to get a financial return in that he was told he was passed this
by a simple error extensions. Okay. Okay. Um, moving on to number two. The hardship is not a result of actions of the owner and is not based solely on a
desire to reduce development cost. Yeah. times that is the only reason why and if we're not trying to lower the development cost and simply build something that's that can go there that
he can actually get a return on his investment But discuss I think one issue that Mark uh previously identified is that your applica on your application you mark no
and generally you would expect a successful application to be marked yes through all questions. But I I could see potentially how that could be uh I think that was a misreading maybe.
Sure. So just to clarify, you would say that the hardship in this case that you're claiming is not a result of the uh of the result of the fault of the owner. No. Yes, you're I would say that. Yes. Okay.
Uh the proposed variance is necessary to preserve a substantial property right where such property right is generally available to other property owners of adjacent or nearby properties or other properties in the land use category. Yes.
Uh number four, the proposed variance will not materially increase congestion on the surrounding streets, increase the danger of fire or other hazard or otherwise be detrimental to the health, safety or general welfare of the public. And I think you can tell there was an
explanation that should havece One of the requirement that that we had before the first time after verbal approval was
uh to prepare additional set of plans with BNC fire marshal BNC fire. So obviously it's going to be mean more expense on our side to be able
to get it proceed. Okay. Yeah. Um sorry take just to round it out I guess. Number five, the proposed variance will be compatible with adjacent nearby development and will not alter the essential character of the land use
district. Okay. Uh you marked yes. Uh you stated there is a multif family dwelling adjacent on the east side of the site and six multif family dwellings adjacent on the west side of the subject property.
Okay. Uh number six, the effect of the proposed variance is consistent with purposes of the regulations. Regulations referring to the land development regulations. Uh you marked yes and you stated the variance is simple to
allow the developer to do what the commission already said they could do. Okay. I didn't know if you wanted to expound on that or or if any of the I mean it's multiple multiple things that been mentioned to me that from
financial standpoint and investment standpoint that I require to do which one of them was to maintain the trees for three to five years in the property and the second thing is that I would not
be able to separate out which would require me to go back to my my my team and have them uh create a new set of plans and change some of the things that supposed to be done. So I did it on my
end and pay all the fees that for all the team that before we got here and agreed to it and commit to it that I will do whatever they require me to do. So it was a lot to the process. I've
been here for the past over five years now and been going back and forth uh meeting different people, people that wasn't here today, people that was here in the past. I just, you know, want to be able to
proceed with my project and just wanted to I didn't know if you had any questions or anything. Okay. Well, well, I don't think it's I don't think it's consistent with the the regulations. So, um because the regulations completely that's a
different district. It would have been consistent with the regulations if uh we could still stand on something within the regulations, but like I say, the time has changed. So, I'm not sure if that's that's accurate, but just my
my thoughts. It's not like something new that we approaching you in the first time. been through the process before and went through every channel that was
supposed on our end and your guys end. We went through all the above that been asked from us from the city of Parker, EPCI, engineer, architect, fire people that on our side that we had to commit to be
able to get from them set of plans etc. It's something to stand on. It's not something that you know we showing for the first time and showing you set of plans that never saw before.
Understood. And this why I think as far as the regulation that you talking about that the state came up with it's not something that we didn't have the set of plans
and development order before that and the extension just never been made at the proper time was supposed to be made. But when we find out that it's been expired you can see the date timing where approach the city of Parker
numerous time and not always the people was in the office so that we show up boots on ground to be able to to get the the proper paperwork to be able to proceed and we did that and we got push
back and push back and push back and and we here today. Yep. Mr. Mr. Abu, like I say, I things change over time though and the rules change since the first time and then the other things that happen is all that time has elapsed and then then there's
the new uh rules by the state. So we have to operate in today's environment. Um so anyway, did you want to go through that last one, John? Uh yes. The effect of the proposed variance is consistent with the comprehensive plan and you marked. Yes,
the comprehensive plan allows for medium density attached dwelling units. It doesn't comprehensive plan's very specific about you know low density residential areas. Okay. Um
so anything else, gentlemen? I'm going to uh I'll ask for a motion. Your motion is you have three options uh to either um uh approve this uh and move it along to council members to approve with conditions or to deny. Um so I'll
ask for a motion. The chair cannot put a motion on. I'll make a motion we deny the request. I'll I'll based on based on the comprehensive plan. Yep. I'll look for a second, please. Second. Okay. Um Madame Clerk, will you take a vote?
Mr. Hall, Miss Powering. that we motion to deny. Yes. Um, Mr. Striker. Yes. And chairman. Yes. Gentlemen, I'm I'm sorry for that, but like I say, we're kind of the nuts and bolts of the rules and our council
members ask us for specificity and that's what we have to give them on a regular basis. So, thank you for your time. Now, there's one good thing and that is that we're advisory only. You can still bring this before the council members, but they will hear uh they'll
see this video and they'll see what what transpired. So, they are the governing body. They have the option to overturn that uh and and move forward. So, however you want to play it, entirely up to you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Boo.
Very good. All right. Uh Mr. Bifford, application for a development order. Um yes, sir. Mr. Stevens. Oh, Mr. Stevens, would you mind giving us your name and your address? Mr. Stevens. And John Stevenson, 208 Williamsburg Circle
in Brentwood, Tennessee. Very good. Very good. And if you don't mind giving us sort of a uh summary what you what you want to do with this project. Yes, sir. We're proposing a
12 unit food truck at 5708, 5710, and the other parcel. next door approximately 2 and a half acres we have there and we my family and I are in the real
estate development business in Nashville and also we got a lot of interest here in Panama City also redoing the Lizy hospital very nice five people or five parcels in the bay
you there several years trying to get through the army core permits and all, but basically trying to create a community center and just introduce some community infrastructure that's much needed in Parker
on this. You have the food trucks, bathrooms, commissary area for the trucks and a venue area for performances and just something that the community could come together around. I've got a poster in
front of me here. We specialize in buying old buildings in Nashville. And can you see that, Rich? Bring it around. But these were buildings built from the 50s on up to
some stuff I built in high school. But just mom and pop operations, barista parlors, clothing shops, guitar jobs and some of my tenants have been with me for
20 years or more and very nice. It just becomes the center of the community and I also own the piece turn drive in 98 that we're working on
getting a permit to put up a similar building without multiple small tenants. But say we're just basically trying to clean up the area and just create a center for me and my family and the community to enjoy
and something we'll own forever. Very good. Commissioners, anybody have any questions for John? I was trying to figure out what this is. So each one of them is going to have food trucks. Well, we're gonna could
have up to 12 food trucks on the property. A horseshoe and similar to the chill that you that's up there in 38 up there. It's $30 for a drink and $25 for sandwich. People are tripping over
themselves to get there. This is going to be a horseshoe area. Have your place to have live music and just a place everyone can get together and congregate. And we also have access to the water. We will be forthcoming
with docks next to Mr. Dikes as well. So people from the neighborhood surrounding by water can come in. And as soon as I get my Army Corps stuff together, we'll be coming before you for that. As well as where the old fish camp is next to
Wayne Doll's old property. I've been trying I've already rebuilt my dock. It's just painful getting through the armor. But it's just a community center and I'm even looking at the Korean church possibly some more redevelopment
as I've shown you on this. I'm in talks with them on that as well. Very good. Well, really the good news is that um in 2020 and uh reinforced in 2024 and 25 through
New Florida statutes, it's 509.102. They um the state has ultimately said that municipalities cannot impose more stringent laws than the state on food trucks. Uh in fact, the only thing uh that u that they're telling
municipalities they can do is they can tell you um you know when they can operate, where they can operate and uh talk about the parking resources. So the good news is for this project there's nothing in the land development rules that prevents you from doing exactly
this. Um the uh the one thing that I might uh have you take a look at uh might actually help you is in Oh, is that me? Okay, let me get that real fast there. Thanks. Uh go over to parking.
You got a fair number of parking spaces in there. And I don't I'm just don't know if you need them all, John. Uh because this is primarily cash and carry like food truck. walk up to the truck, buy your food, and then and then walk away or sit down at a picnic bench or something. Yeah, we're gonna have the the areas
with the sales. Another one of my very good friends is Nashville Tenting, which he does all the sales for Florida, but having the Astro Turf area, the place that you can sit and listen to music, have your food, and even go sit down by the water. So,
I'm also going to have parking for my docks that are going to be down at the bottom. So, I like to plan ahead and just I can show you by what I've done in Nashville forward thinking. I'd rather spend more up front, make it make it right. Just to let you know though, uh because
we're in Florida, it floods here. So, our concept here is that uh the less paved area sometimes the better. This could help you. uh you pro you may have looked under drive-in restaurants what the number of uh so they're looking at 10 spaces per thousand square feet but
if 50% of your business or more is cash and carry uh then you can cut that number in half so as an option to you that's that's an option too yes sir I think we're still about 37% impervious oh yeah you'reowed
this is mu1 you're allowed up to 80% yes sir yeah so you're fine very Good. Do we have any questions for John? The only concern I had when I saw the the lot on 98, the lower lot,
was it's real skinny and real long. And is that going to cause any problems getting in and out of traffic because it's on the curb? No. So, all of the traffic is going to be queued on Fleming Street where we have a turn lane. Okay. And I'm not going to have I'm going to have all that blocked off.
Okay. This doesn't have the all the detail that I wanted it to. Yeah. But I want to I want to I was confused by that same thing because it looked like a tiny little lot. But they're actually But they're actually expanding into two. It's it's two of those. That
little that black square right or rectangle right there. That's what we saw. But then they provided this picture and it's actually going to be each of these. Yeah. I just looked up that house number on on the on the appraisers website. Yeah. And it was like When you turn in street
at the Korean church, that makes a difference. That's a long ways down from where I was looking the entrance way. Very good. So, um, John, any questions for uh, if I could just see this. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Rich, any questions for Mr. John here? We'll wait until he looks something up before we can You can take that in if you like. You talked about some of it being like retail your illustration. You said the little clothing store, guitar,
no commissary. What I was showing you on my other one are some of my other developments. I haven't done any other food truck stuff. We actually a few food trucks because I've got some tenants that have art and guitar shows. Okay.
This would just have more commissary and maybe some refrigeration and some other things to be ancillary to food service operations. Just make it easier for them. Okay. Thank you. To be successful. It's mixed use one. There's no
prohibitions uh in that area for things like food trucks. And uh quite frankly, um if you look at uh if you look at the parking requirements, they have more spaces than uh would be otherwise necessary based on I think the type of
business that they have. Uh so and then these little triangles, those are actually sun shades that you'd put up for, you know, the different diners that want to sit in the shade. Very good. John, anything that you want? Any questions for Very good. I'll ask for a
motion then. Uh we can either approve approve with conditions or deny. So I ask for a motion for one of those, please. I make a motion to approve it. Very good. Can I get a second, please? Second. Okay. Can I get a vote? Uh, Madam Clerk. Absolutely. Mr. Hall, yes. Miss Bing, yes. Mr. Striker, yes.
And Chairman Rian, yes. And thanks for improving Parker. We appreciate it, John. Looks like a nice project. Very good. Very good. All right. What do we got going on here? All right, Mr. Dykes, can we have you
come to the podium, please? Good afternoon. Thank you all very much. on behalf of Smugglers Group LLC, 5612 East Highway 98. Um, we're here today.
I'm not sure I'm going to let the commission help me. Um, the development order first is to be able to pave uh the RV park, which we
think be a grand improvement. Um, To be honest with you, I was just reading the land development regulations. I thought we had to do that and maybe there we still do because there's a section I don't see, but it looks like that was
more geared toward mobile homes. Yeah. No, it it's for you as well, Mr. Dyes. Yeah. Let me let me see if I can find that section. I remember writing that in there. I believe you. Um y so everything was submitted uh with the
application for the development order. You had the drainage report. You had the geotech survey. Uh you had um there was like four or five attachments with the development order and
included everything that was in. So the first request is that if we can be allowed to do that so that we can stay in compliance with land development regulations uh because otherwise we're going to get a nasty at some point saying
well and the reason we've asked people to do that both in mobile home parks as well as RV parks is a couple of different things. Um, one is so that when firet trucks, if firet trucks do have to go in there, oftent times if it's any kind of a a gravel, um,
sometimes you'll get big old bellies and some of those some of those pumps hang down pretty low, uh, in the, uh, in the fire trucks. So, uh, we asked it for actually it's mandated for mobile homes by the end of this year, December, last day of December of of 2025. But for RV
parks, it is a requirement now for any new parks and any of those that uh are existing. I don't remember if there's a a trigger date for that though, but it is it is in here that we wrote it in there. So, that is an upgrade. Do you remember what the impervious area was
for that? We just got th this uh report minutes before we started. We had the rest of your stuff, but do you remember what the total impervious was after the was it somewhere in that engineering report? I'm looking and it just so happens
my business partner here is about to be worth his weight underrad degree in engineering. So, good deal. Think you can find that? Well, I'll tell you what. I don't need to know the exact. Do you remember um Mr. Ciphford? If it was below 80%.
Okay. If it's below 80% then that clearly meets the requirement. Oh, here it is. Here it is. Right here. I'm so sorry. It's right at the end. 30.1%. So, you're you're fine. Yeah, that's well below what the requirement is. Okay. Very good.
So, Oh, yeah. And I know earlier you had talked about dolomite. Uh you told me about that. I did a little research because you spurred my interest. And you're exactly right. That's a That's a The one thing that the council members had said though
is they wish that everything would go to a hard surface to eliminate some of the dust and probably for the RVers that are in there probably want you are going to be doing better with it. Of course, Derry's laugh because he's a big old RVER and we've been to some real nice RV parks, but uh that's going to help.
Yeah. Ashvault and concrete, right? You guys have a a pearl back there. That's beautiful. I mean, spec on the water. I've been to some some RV parks that have been that are the jewel of the Nile. They're amazing.
And uh I mean, your plans uh to improve are are terrific. Clean it all up. Beautiful. It's certainly protected for sure. Yeah. Protected area. Uh very nice. Uh,
I wanted to well, whenever we get I don't know if you want to stop, but the doc was one of the questions that we had and I wanted to follow up. I I guess I'm a little bit confused. I didn't realize sometimes there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, but I didn't realize
that we had submitted our request for development order for our doc. I guess Ingred could confirm that for you. Uh, she looked at a document that led her to believe it had already been submitted. So if not, it it does have to be done really. The the what it it is
not Mr. Ria, that's my question. The agenda states that this is a development order for a dock. Yes. And that's what the itinerary summary says, but I I see nothing to do with the dock. So what is what are we discussing?
Here's the really good here's the really good thing is um uh there was this did was Ann given this? Okay. It was late, Ann. This this packet here was given to us kind of late. It's for the RV park. You're gonna we're gonna talk about both. Is that right, Mr. Dikes? Yeah,
we're going to talk about both, but right now we have as our we the council members chose in the 2022 land development rules to ask that mobile home parks and RV parks eventually all their roadways are owned
by them, maintained by them, have to be 22 feet wide, and ultimately are a hard surface. So, he's essentially saying, "I'm complying with what your rules are." Okay. So, he he's doing that right now and that's fine. Uh and but I understand
where you're coming from an it's uh the information you had was about the dock. Yeah. So, for the agenda really should be corrected to say that this is a development order for the RV park and a discussion about a dock. Well, the council the the the the
council member quite frankly the the paving um didn't necessarily have to come before us. That can be something here. But the dock because that's a major development did have to come before us. So I think Mr. Dykes is simply telling us about it. But it is a requirement in the land
development rules that RV parks and mobile homes eventually have all um hard surfaces. Thank you. Particularly for fire prevention and all other things. So that that's fine. Uh and we we don't
need to vote on that because quite frankly that's a requirement in the LDRs. Uh I think what an is is saying Mr. Dykes is that uh we reviewed the information regarding the the the docks. So would you mind telling us a little bit about that project?
The docks have been in in work uh since 2022 and Mr. Cypress been involved with it and Miss Bethany from Cypress Environmental has been involved with it. What I thought was once we finally got our core of engineers permit, we could
come down and apply for a city uh building permit and we could go. We already have our FD permit and it's going to be a 40 space dock um to complement hopefully the RV park in a
very very nice way. The request is once we get our core permit again pending since 2022 and we've already provided with you with the permit approval from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection
that you would conditionally approve that pending the COR's approval such that once our core approval does come in, we can simply walk in and and pay whatever additional fees and start
building which is going to be a dream come true and we can do that Mr. Dykes because this this is similar to the last project where there's nothing in an MU1 district which would prevent you from building a 40 uh slip dock. Uh the only uh thing
that we had to make sure of is that and I'm sure you would too knowing your what you do for a living and and and your partners and everything that if it's a navigable water it becomes federal. So ultimately, uh, US Army Corps of Engineers have to approve it. You've already got your Florida Department of
Environmental Protection permit, you say. So that's good. You know, by the way, uh, they've kind of helped with that a little bit. Uh, in waters such as yours, you may not have had to go to the the Army Corps of Engineers. You could have gone through the state programmic
generic permit because they work together. the the uh Florida Department of Envir Environmental Protection and Army Corps of Engineers, they work together. Now, when a fed when it becomes federal because it's navigable waters so that that one permit would would solve both. Something to look
into, but it sounds like you're already on the track to go to Army Corps of Engineers and then the D because that's they oversee the ecosystem when you're putting the pylons in and everything. They're the ones that are going to look at the turbidity of the water and make sure if they see a manatee, you have to wait 30 minutes before you keep pounding
them into the ground. And they're concerned about turbidity because that's shellfish live out there. And beyond a certain level, they tell you to stop for a little while until it kind of calms down a little bit. And are you guys are using a marine contractor for the whole project?
Most likely going to be Shores Marine Construction. They're they're local and they do a good job. Good deal. And um are you guys going to be part of that clean marine program by any chance? It's voluntary.
Yes, ma'am. There are benefits for a marina of this size. Yes, ma'am. Part of that program. Yeah. you will look at that but under 50 it's not necessary because uh the trigger is over 50 or boats
for any any size marina um but but it is something you can discount fees um for so it is something that they're going to want to look at not the yeah maybe I miss the clean marine program is voluntary but the the
the pumpout requirement is part of the clean marine that becomes necessary over 50 or over 26 boats and over 26 ft of length. It's not necessarily um a requirement um based on the size of a marina
live aboards um but it is required but for this particular marina it is a requirement. Okay, that's really just based on um the type of marina and the um water quality testing. Okay, very good.
So we will have we will have a pump out at this facility. Oh, you will? Yes. Outstanding. Um, that's that's actually going to help your neighbor down the way because I think the feds say if you've got one within two miles, then uh you don't need one. Uh they could you could
still be Pier 98 doesn't have one. So, that's what I mean. You're going to help them by having a pumpout. You're going to help those guys. Um, very good. Ann, please question for you. Will other boers that may not have a a vessel that's seaorthy
to go 12 miles offshore as required, can they do a pay paid use of that same sewage facility? Wonderful. Thank you. That's what I'm talking about. And obviously the folks that are tied up to your dock would be using it, but
thankful Bob. Thank you very much. We'll have that discussion. And the only final thing I have, um, you may have seen there was a new concept that hasn't made its way completely to Panama City and Parker
yet, but it's coming. So, and that is the RVs we have brought in. We have two of them there now. And in order for us to to accomplish our dream of selling those to the general public, we must be a licensed uh RV dealership through the
state of Florida. Um so in addition to D permitting, we've also been trying to go through the uh Florida DHSMV per. And the long story short is they have told me that we need a letter in essence
saying that within our RV park we can have a little office there in one of the RVs that will be our sales office. And um I've read through the land development regulations pretty tight. We
are MU1. We are a licensed RV park. We are doing within our zoning. I do not see any prohibition to that. Assuming I've read it correctly, we need something from uh planning commission or perhaps Kevin, I'm not sure who it need
to come from exactly, but that basically says that we own and operate the RV park at 5612 and uh you're aware of our intent to sell these and that we're in compliance with the LDRs and our zoning. Um
Mr. I think there is a prohibition against uh in MU1 and MU2. We just dealt with that in that CRA and in the CRA. In that CRA, I think it might be mobile home sales and manufactured housing. Not
RVs. Not RVs. I would I would like to check though. Okay. Can't have auto sales either. Yeah. Yeah. motor vehicle, the prohibition, which is at um
go to the MU1 and MU2 districts. And when you go to prohibitions, it specifically prohibits, mobile home sales, and manufactured home sales, but it is silent as to RV sales.
And that is at four. Yes. Uh 4-6 where it deals with prohibited uses. The argument I or the position I was going to take is that
under your definition section um at 2-1 they define mobile homes one way, manufactured homes one way and then they define recreational vehicles yet another way. We are clearly recreational vehicles.
That would be like Yeah, that's Tell you what, um I didn't see that on today's agenda. Can we get back to you on that because there's some weird language in here that could be interpreted a couple of different ways and we have to make sure that we
understand the intent. Um yeah, I think we also need to look at where it says is permitted too. Yeah. Yeah. So, um let's go ahead and we'll do you want me to come back just tell me
on that? Let let us do that. Uh only because uh there's some weird language around around motor vehicle sales and RVs with a with a motor vehic. considered a motor vehicle sale under prohibited use. Yeah, ours have no motors. Okay. They're
hauled in with Oh, trailers, right? Like RV trailers. Yes. Okay, very good. All right, let us get back in that because that wasn't part of what we were given packet. I wanted to just while I was here, but I can come back and then just to conclude,
do I need to do anything else after we get our floor permit to start running our dock? to go before the you do have you have to have a building permit from Ingred uh and uh the council members will have to go ahead and because it's a major
development so they'll have to approve it and then you'll get a building permit from Ingrid in order to uh proceed. Okay. Do I need to come back not to not to planning meeting or not necessary? Uh I think
they usually like somebody to represent um you know what it is they're gonna say. We will have someone here. Yeah. Because that's a major development. Our council members will have to go ahead and and review that.
But there so what I'd like to do is u again let me give a summary here. Um 40 40 slip marina there's nothing in the land development rules which preclude Mr. Dykes and Mr. decipher from building that. Uh and uh you know in terms of the
paving, we don't even have to vote on that because it's it's not part of this project, the major project uh especially since we required it. So what I'll ask for is a motion uh to approve approve with conditions or deny uh the Marina
project. And I believe that was you were asking for that to be contingent upon the issuance of the Army Corps. What's the core license? Well, they they can't he they can't they couldn't move forward with that project without uh an
Army Corps of Engineer uh uh or uh and Florida Department of Environmental Protection and the D waterway. And also be a be aware uh our fire department does have to go ahead and and and inspect as well. That's part of what
Parker requires. You going to have you know just just because you going to have electricity out on the docks? Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah. fire department will have to inspect it as well. That's just part of our requirements and the and the land
development rules. Um, you going to have gas out there? You going to be fueling any of the Okay, that makes things a whole lot easier. Okay, very good. So, I'll ask for a motion, please. So, we don't have to say the conditions.
What I'm essentially saying is that they they can't move forward without these. So, I don't know why we would say it's conditional. Um, if you want to, you certainly can, but they can't they're not going to Ingred's not going to issue a building permit unless she sees those things.
Okay. I make a motion to to send to the council. Okay. Very good. Can I get a second, please? Second. Okay. Can I get a vote, please? Sure. Or Mr. Hall? Yes. Miss Powering? Yes. M. Mr. Striker? Yes. and chairman Rio. Yes. And Mr. Dykes, thanks for improving
the neighborhood. We sure do appreciate you. We're trying. Thank you, sir. Thank you all for your time. It's our pleasure. Thank you. All right. Very good. And uh last on the menu here is uh do we have a a Nazar uh
in the room? Yes. Are you Mr. Nazar? Yes, Mr. Nazar. Could you uh go ahead and and uh state your full name? And Michael, I live at 743,
Florida. Very good. Thank you, sir. And uh could you give uh the council or the commissioners sort of a summary of the project? Yes. Uh project is at right
and it's right next to the donut hall asking for permission to open a mobile home dealer. Very good. Okay. Do we have any uh and I don't want to blister your name. Say it for me again. Michael Nasar. Nasar. Nasar. Okay. Anybody have any
questions for Mr. Nasar? is I thought we just said in the last one that we can't have mobile home dealerships in that CRA. No, he he is in a um he's in a
commercial district. Okay. And um let me let me ask you that is in the C in the CRA 449 East. Yes. And uh are you actually going to have mobile homes on site as
four models? Four models on site. Yes. Okay. It's a large lot. Okay. There's already an office building there. Okay. Very good. Um and that was area three. Terry,
someone down south which is a three or two. This is one. I can't see that. Well, it's right next to It's It's two road. It's going to be right right about where
your finger is in that commercial area. Zone commercial. I don't I think that was under the CRA, but I don't I'm not 100% sure. is, but I don't think the CRA precludes
mobile home sales. Terry, let me confirm it real fast. Okay, John, do you remember what section was that? It was at uh four and a four. The CRA specific to
uh specific to the CRA district number. Do we say two or three? Two. I think it's three. I don't know. I I'll let me let me confirm. Okay. So, that that is um uh
commercial sub. It's it's two. It's actually two, Terry. Okay. Yep. Mr. Nar, give us a second here. Terry threw us a curve by reminding us it was part of the CRA. I do that a lot.
Okay. Okay. Here it is. Right here, John. I don't think there's any. Let's see. Retail, restaurant, personnel, office, and residential uses.
Okay. I don't see any any prohibitions there. No. Um there there are no prohibitions. Now the CRA was more about what his buildings have to look like, right? Uh for example, uh but the building is
already there. Is that right, Mr. Nisar? Uh so um so he's got a building on site. It doesn't. And he's in a commercial area. And commercial areas do allow I just remember we had an incident where somebody wanted to sell cars
at the where the noodle shops at. Yeah. And we told no. Well, that was that was about motor vehicle sales or service. Right. Right. And he's selling mobile. I thought it was in the same paragraph as the motor.
No, they're two different two different Oh, that's right. that it was right by beyond the green. That's right. That's good memory, Kim. Yeah, that green spot right next to the red. That's Yeah, that's where he's in. He's in a commercial area. He's in a commercial.
And he's in in my opinion, uh there's nothing in the CRA that John and I just read through that would prevent him from doing that. That's the area area two. Okay. Um it's more about the building that's there uh and his office. And there's nothing and and in commercial
when you go to commercial um there's nothing in there's no prohibitions in commercial other than man uh high-end man you know like extensive manufacturing. Um so uh when you get to commercial
it's really just about um lowintensity commercial development allowable uses are there all low inensity commercial activities uh where he can get an occupational license for shopping centers public and private office buildings complexes
public institutional uses educational uses things of that nature. And if you continue on there's no prohibitions there. Um, so any questions for Mr. Nisar? No. Okay. Very good.
Mr. Nisar, so you're gonna Where are you going to put those those uh four models that two? There's two in the back. You can put behind the building. Yes, sir. Two in the back, three in the front. Okay, very good.
Let me see if I got any notes written down here. Yeah, he's definitely commercial area there. Yeah, this is all commercial. Yeah. Yeah. This it was just the intent of that area to be a mixed use and not intensively commercial.
Yeah. So, will you a little bit about that? So, will people come and buy those models that are on that site and then hook a truck to them and and take them off of there? So, you'll have that kind of operation going in and out of there. You got plenty of room to We won't be doing
Tindle's getting out. Yeah. Yeah. And you're the murderers going over and coming. I take my kid to I gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. And then uh so
you can clearly see, you know, they're just on on the uh south side of East Bay Flats or west side of East Bay Flats. Thanks for all the pictures. And that building, the brick building
with sort of the metal roof, that's where you're going to be in your office. Yes. Okay. Very good. Very good. Okay. We have no more questions for Mr. Assar, then uh I'll ask for a motion to
move it along. So once again, um just as a summary, uh I don't think there's anything uh in the land development rules that would preclude Mr. Nasar from having that type of a business in a commercial area. And
the uh CRA area district 2 is more about the building that he's going to occupy, not uh and there there are no use restrictions for that CRA. There are also no use restrictions uh for in the commercial area. no prohibitions that
have been listed. So, what I'll ask for is a motion to either uh approve approve with conditions or deny. I'll make a motion to approve. Very good. Can I get a second, please? Second. Can I get a vote, Madam Clerk?
Yes. Mr. Hall? Yes. Ming? Yes. Mr. Striker? Yes. Mr. Chairman? Yes. Make us a nice uh business over there, Mr. Nisar. Appreciate you. We appreciate you. a letter from uh well uh I mean you do have to get a
business license now from this young lady right here before you can proceed. Uh and uh and letter for the state that says that you guys approved. That's why well it's got it's still got to go. We are the commissioners, the council members. Um young lady back there is one
of our council members. We had one up here. It still has to go through them. Uh but they will watch this video and they will hear what we had to say and uh and then uh they you have to get an affirmative from them as well. Um but uh
they they listen to what we have to say, you know, in terms of the research we've done and uh they'll vote accordingly. Okay. Or whatever their their their belief is. So I'll just keep in touch with Yes. Okay. Very good. Thank you very much. Thank you.
All right. Um Terry Yeah. I'm sorry. What time is it? 6:30. Sorry. Um just just general inquiry. That's okay. Please, Mr. Santoro's place, what is the status of
I I have heard uh that uh that project is either delayed uh because he may have um pure pure hearsay, no fact that uh he he may have just delayed due to uh perhaps, you know, the conditions of the
environment right now, funding, things of that nature. I've heard only heard that. Don't even know couldn't even tell you who heard. No, I just Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else, Terry? No. Very good. Ann, good. Thank you. Ingred, do you have anything you want to tell us?
I'm good. Very good. John, do you have anything you want to Thanks for keeping us out of jail. Appreciate that. Rich, anything from your part? Okay, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, ma'am. Please. Thanks.
We appreciate you. Following on to Mr. Striker's comment when when does the development order for Mr. Santo expire? Do we know? Isn't it like six months he has to begin? I it I believe after the council members uh went ahead and approved it. You know,
it went through a series of cases, court cases there and then I think uh he was given an acceptance to move forward with it. Um ultimately I don't know when the development order was issued but it is he has six months
from the time that it's it's developed. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Very good. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for once again being interested in what we do here. Appreciate it. We're going to call the meeting.
Oh goodness.