##VIDEO ID:6ecyGaImsDg## you're on record we're on record we're on record okay my apologies everybody good [Music] evening Joseph O'Neal for the applicant I think we got to go through our oh you didn't you want me to do it please sure uh so good evening uh tonight we have a special meeting of the township of Paran Troy Hills Board of adjustment it's Wednesday January 15 2025 and at 700 p.m. announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 col 4- of the New Jersey open public meetings act roll call please burkowitz here D cros here paty here Quinn here ready presid grani here we also have our board planner Mr Chadwick our board engineer Mr Lano and our board attorney Mr Johnson pres pres here please stand and join us in the Pledge of [Music] Allegiance States one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for thank Mr CH can you raise your right hand please you testimony that you ra right hand that ttim did tonight be the truth the whole truth yes thank you is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak about anything other than what is on our agenda this evening C none agenda application 22 colon 04 C saala 130 Troy Road Block 726 lot 15 Zone R3 site with a d variance to construct three town homes this me this application is carried from October 23rd 2024 Mr O'Neal yes thank you good evening everybody Joseph O'Neal here for the applicant I'll just a quick reminder first off thank you for accommodating us with the special meeting after we were having so many problems with our plans in the last meeting we straighten that all out now everyone's got the same plan current plan and what this is is a site plan in connection with d variances and other variances that have been previously granted so was bifurcated this is the site plan now site plan only and because it was back in October we did this I've got Mr Matarazzo here with me again he'd like to just start from the top it only take about five minutes to run through the plane again so everyone's familiar with it so if you didn't do your homework it doesn't matter with that Mr M can you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but yes please state your name spell your last name tell us to company your Franko can you please speak into the microphone just have the FL closer [Music] okay so um site is located 130 Road 15 726 loated approximately 500 F west of located in AR Zone you talk a little louder FR I'm sorry stop yeah don't turn the thing you'll mute yourself don't touch it yeah it's it's wireless so just you have to speak up pull it closer uh the property currently contains a on story single family uh dwelling with a Mason re garage and a circular driveway total lot area is 1.24 acres is measured for the Cent line is irregular shape the northern portion of the can BR the fres water wet area and the existing Cru area is the front part of [Music] the the Topography is M downhill e right the proposed site layout is uh the to demolish the existing dwelling and construct a new building contain three townhouse there's going to be a parking area in front of the building there are two driveway to for parking lot an entrance only driveway located on the easterly side of the parking and an exit [Music] only down we have a garage dri right parking there will be three additional parking spaces in the parking lot for toal [Music] minimum we're proposing some lighting there's a total of five light fixtures proposed three will be building mounted along the face of the building and two will be po mounted one light fixure is located driveway one loated we're proposing Landscaping along the front of the proposed parking area which will consist of some small fishes and and there be some more Landscaping between the individual residential Drive we're proposing the storm water management system which consists of an underground detension underground tension system uh which will be located beneath the two most East parking spaces located to the right of the entrance Tri the U storm water system consists of a CCH chamber system which is to be placed within gravel under ground storm water will flow over the parking area collected [Music] [Music] by located EAS side of the two parking spaces which will collect any R off [Music] overflow will be propos discharge to the rear of the undeveloped area each unit will be served by individual water connection [Music] B I don't mean to interrupt it's the light on on your microphone you there it it lights up in that little window if it's not lit up you shut it off so if you could flip it down and back up to turn it on that little no no you're should [Music] well he had shut it off though whereing hello is the light [Music] on okay and you didn't mut it did you no there you go you have muted it okay that's okay you don't want it to repeat everything do you no okay did the record pick up his testimony it it did okay matter people in the back may not have heard of that thank you Mr Mizer I have no further questions for this we does anyone on the board have questions Mr maizer T testimony only Madam chair I've got a um um as you as you may know weall the last meeting we had I did not have the latest set of plans um the latest set of plans were confirmed pretty much over the last day or two so I did not get to redo a report for submission so I've got a list of comments I'd like to read in just we get them on the record um you know once we get any of the comments in uh taken care of please do so okay um first off there's a van uh there's a there's a parking space marked as van accessible but it's not uh it doesn't have the proper width of of access aisle um the m a maintenance manual has to be submitted for the storm water and the there's no calculations for the storm water storage there's a spreadsheet looks like it came off the the manufacturer's website I just need to verify that the void ratio is 33 CU typically they use 04 and the 33 is in the ordinance in the ordinance um there is a trench strain behind the curb on the east side and the top of that Tren strain is a foot and a half below the curb so I'm just not sure what it's doing there and how well that's going to work so we'll need a cross-section or something through there to explain how that's going to how that's going to work um the plans show that the water service is PVC it's probably got to be copper correct so replace PVC with copper um is there going to be an on-site transformer for electric because the the power is on the other side of the street um that I'm not sure of the the other comment I agree with we we can uh we can adjust the plan with the parking space handicap access aisle we might just have to widen the pavement a few feet uh and all the other details we agree with Okay um trashing well this there just there's some inconsistencies that I'll leave for later that we won't bother it um the lighting manufacturers data on sheet three is illegible I can't read it agre um based on the curb elevations on the plan the curb is 4 in high the construction detail says it's 5 in high and it's supposed to be 6 in high agreed um all the traffic control shage should be revised to and no compliance with the manual and uniform traffic control devices um we need a trench detail for in uh and I I'll put this all in the writing I'm just because it wasn't on the record for the hearing um the trench detail has to be provided showing uh dot uh dense created aggregate with no recycled uh content to the surface the truck detail the truck detail has a turning template that shows the steer wheel steer wheels of the truck at about 90 degrees to the truck which can't happen so we're going to need new truck turning rate templates to make sure that that actually works uh standard Road repair detail has to be added to the plans we need infiltration uh I'm sorry elevations and dimensions so we can understand how the infiltration system works uh the architectural engineering plan should be made consistent with respect to average grade floor elevation and Building height uh the resolution for the D variant said there were supposed to be a fence and plantings and there's no fence shown on the property um there wasn't a lot of detail in the resolution so we have to go back to the minutes and figure out where that fence is supposed to be and your d uh letter of interpretation expires in a month so you're not going to be able I doubt if you're going to be able to start building before that expires so that's going to have to be extended um and that's all I we're already working on that extension yeah that's well but that's all I have okay thank you mam chair are you going to be able tonight to agree to all of those comments yes we can we did have a little bit of an advanced warning about this and we will be able to agree to all of those comments I also think I know where the fence was supposed to be in the back there so we'll be able to take care of that with the plannings and again I'll put that in I'll put this into a letter I'll Direct to the applicant because obviously with after the meeting but that way you know we have a list to go by the one question I have is I see this note about the uh curb detail being not up to the town standards what is the town standard curve can you please pull the microphone closer Mr O can you please pull the microphone closer oh it is yeah the issue with the detail is that it's just it's just not right just the dimensions okay Dimensions it we'll comply with are any of Mr L manu's comments something that physically on the property could not be done no okay everything's fine I just don't want to get into a situation where he's made a comment and it can't actually definitely not we don't want to come back either so it can all be complied with there's no problem I know the truck I don't know why the detail was drawn like that the truck detail I saw did work so we'll take care of that please pull the microphone closer okay any other board member would have questions of this witness just too quick yes we're going to have a uh Owners Association fing on this yeah we are straight condos yes should that be subject [Music] toor I think the town attorney reviews the I remember and [Music] oh we never stated the date of the map that we're approving I think it's 12 no it's not 12 out so I don't make a mistake so the condo association is going to be responsible for the maintenance of the storm water system that's correct okay and I'm sorry madam chair one more thing the plan say final site plan this is preliminary and final yes any other questions from the board Mr O'Neal the date February 1 2024 is that the plan you T that's correct okay thank you FR is there anyone in the public who would like to um speak in support or opposition to this application see none but the board one of the board members frame a resolution [Music] please application 22 col 4 nakul KAS kadala 130 Tri Road Block 726 Lot Number 15 Zone R-3 to Grant a site plan with uh D variance to construct three town homes of contrary to all the agreements he is uh accepting so on the condition that all of Mr lano's comments be satisfied Mr lano's comments and also Mr Chad's comments right second second second burkowitz yes CR yes Ted yes T yes ready yes brani yes thank you everybody have a ni thank you um if there are people in the audience um if you are here for the um sing application that has been withdrawn the application has been withdrawn the application is withdrawn the longer moving forward on their application they have the applicant has withdrawn the [Music] application the I need an adjournment for the motion for need a second please hi whatever you know whatever we're on record seen them before good evening and welcome to the meeting of the township of forany Troy Hills Board of adjustment it is Wednesday January 15th 2025 and it is 7:30 p.m. announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has has been given and that is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 col 4- of the New Jersey open public meetings act roll call please Mr burkowitz here Mr Crow here Mr Petty Here Mr Quinn here Mr ready pres chairwoman grani pres we also have our board planner Mr Chadwick our board engineer Mr L manowitz and our board attorney Mr Johnson here is there anyone in the public who would like to speak of anything other than what is on our agenda this evening C none resolutions Nora please yes apologize uh so we have um application 2457 Zachary uh Sone block 63 law two and application 29 I'm sorry 2469 LLC block 596 lot 5 those who can vote are burkowitz Petty Quinn ready and grani can I have a motion please motion and there a second burtz yes Petty yes Quinn yes ready yes grani yes application 24 colon 6 Singh has been withdrawn withdrawn um Nora if you make a notation of that please yes you got correspondence to that effect correct yes thank you uh so call application 2455 yeah application 24 colon 55 Lydia and yolinda Ender four Parkside Drive block 763 Lot 2 Zone R3 a d variance for a two family home this application is carried from our October 23rd 2024 meeting is Miss Bender here I see none I do not see them and for the record they were advised at the meeting on October 23rd 2024 that the matter would be rescheduled to tonight's date yes and to um have a uh planner present yeah it was it was strongly suggested to them that they retain the services of a professional plan and nor just for the record have you heard from either of the vendors I have not heard from them at all and you have not received any indication that they retained a professional planers is that I have not and they didn't ask you for further adjournment of tonight's hearing correct they did not I would suggest to the board that they have um voluntarily not appeared tonight and the application should be dismissed do we want to hear the other application first and then maybe they'll show up sure if you want to do that yeah you want to do ISO first and then give them a chance to show up sure the board can do that at the most yes all right application number 24 colon 65 asso 1699 Route 46 block 725 Lot 8 9 10 Zone 03 a minor site plan with the D variance to construct an outdoor playground area area ex [Music] me sure that would be great my name is RO I'm from German Ro LLC and I'm here on behalf of the applicant by the way uh I will have two witnesses tonight uh one sitting behind me is uh Rie Amin who's here an authorized representative of the temple and sitting over here Patel who is our engineer okay and then and that will be our appliation okay great let me just put my face together and then we can start [Music] sure pleas of course I'll just make if I may some very brief introductory remarks which is uh you've already very very generally described the application This concerns an existing Temple facility on Route 46 the idea is to enhance the temple and the usability of the of the temple by having a facility that can be used by children uh of parents attending services and there will be a combination of a playground and the latest had a a pickle ball court uh let me just say in terms of background that this is in an 03 Zone it's a uh non-permitted use in 2006 a use variance was granted for this Temple and the first instance in 2010 there was a a second resolution because the 2006 plan got modified uh and then in 2012 there was yet another resolution uh because an accessory structure on the site that was originally plann to be demolished instead they found the use for it uh I don't think that there have been any significant changes since then uh but now here we are again as I said for this particular uh application uh one thing I I would i' like to thank uh uh Mr Chadwick because in his comments uh he agreed that we did not need a planner uh in order to uh uh make the arguments for our use variance the expansion of a non-conforming use or already of course an inherently beneficial use and the thought and that is that by the time you you get to the conclusion of our presentation it'll be very clear that we will have no negative impact on the neighborhood or the Zone plan so we will have met both positive criteria and the negative criteria uh what I would like to do now is is call my first witness if I may certainly all right can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but yeah thank you please state your name spell your last name please ra uh r a v i last name I'm in a m i n great thanks you can sit down just make sure you use the microphone that you to the microphone good evening okay um Mr amain you are a member of the temple am I correct yes and you are here as the Temple's authorized representative for this application right yes right so in the first instance uh could you just dis just remind everybody what this Temple is and by the way just for the record you may as well give it its real name we call it ISO but what what is the actual name of the temple uh isso standing for international Ser organization it's a Hindu Community Center um we have services and benefits public of Paran and uh if I show if I think I'll use this Photograph how do we Mark exhibits A1 all right and uh do I Mark you can mark it yourself that's fine with today's date as well and is that your only copy no I brought copies great okay I got plenty just leave the marked copy with the board secretary okay I'm going to leave one for [Music] [Music] you if you don't have enough I don't have I separ I can yes [Music] [Music] please okay Mr is is this be uh a photograph uh from from an elevated view showing the temple site correct yes and without going into a lot of detail because our engineer is going to have to do that as part of his testimony can you generally describe what the temple grounds consist of sure so right off of Route 46 we have uh caretaker's house all right and and and and so I mean there there I just want to stop you because there are many things on this photograph that are not part of the temple site right I mean that the whole right side of the picture is not the temple site correct this this building is right so when you say that the the caretaker and I actually think it's an assistant priest uh is that is that the in the lower the lower left lower left correct all right the lower left and then and then you have a driveway we have a driveway and then the main Temple uh back left uh of residents for the priests behind the main Temple and Community Hall towards right side of the driveway all right with the like the white line as it were going right up into the community center correct yes all right and if I if I focus you on the the house in the lower left and the words the words Shri swam Hindu temple if I focus on those two points where is the proposed playground and pickleball court it's going to be in between the lower left house and text um right up here in that open field open field yeah right here all right and and just to just do a little bit more of the picture to the left side of the picture uh that would be East along Route 46 uh is is that that dark mass is that a bunch of trees that's correct those are tree lining all right so so there's a line of trees between you and the next property correct and the next property is the Presbyterian Church am I right about that yes all right so so to just make it really clear then what will be on that side of the proposed playground in court is a tree line and then and then the church correct and and the church is not right up against the line either it's set back all right uh what I'd like you to do now then is is first of all could you describe uh why you want to have this new playground facility it's to have the the children that attend the church on service days something to do um we feel like we have a young generation of children coming so rather than playing the parking lot where there's a potential for them to get hurt why not give them an area where you know be fenced off and there slides swing set pickle ball basketball so they can enjoy it and be in a safe Zone as well is it the case that right now uh the kids are outside anyway but they just have no place to be that's correct yep now um can you describe the um the expected hours of the use of this facility on service days um anywhere from 4 to 8 4 to 8 I would say expect the kids to you utilize the park playground I'm sorry what do you mean by 4: to 8: 4:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. every day no not every day on the weekends on service days right so that would be uh roughly one one day per week one day per week correct right and is it the case that um every child who comes there uh will have come with a parent that's correct parents will uh supervise and um watch their kids playing the area all right so there will be no additional traffic is that right right that's correct and no need for any additional parking is that right that's correct uh and uh will there be any need for any types of deliveries uh or any uh will there be any environmental issues that you're aware of that might be caused by by this playground through the use of the playground none to my knowledge NOP all right um uh will will there be a supervision yes that would be part of the requirement that there would be a supervision adults to supervise the area while there's children in that playground is it only going to be used on service days yes the pickle ball court as well yes and is the pickleball court strictly pickle ball or is it more of a multisport court multisport we have one basketball um who is the pickable net permanently fixed or is it it'll be retractable so it' be you know if we want to retract it it'd be we can take it out so um so your anticipation is not that other members of your organization will use the pickle ball board on non service stes that's correct just I don't know you know the answer to this but do you ask are the dimensions for adult pick a ball quite different than the child children's pickle ball or they same [Music] dimensions we have spreadsheets I don't know off top of my head dimensions it's just one size one size right uh but Mr Johnson you you asked a good question uh which is that so this is not a a stealth attempt I'll use that word to create an adult facility uh that will be used uh other than as we've described no it's mainly for the children so won't yeah it won't be adults utilizing it primarily it would be the kids and the children attend the church the temple are you willing to stipulate that as a condition of approval sure yes I don't I I think it would be a Cas word it does pickleball court a pickle ball court I agree and so regulate do you want I think the more important thing is is adult management for the children then you already testified there would be something to that right and also uh is non permitted days how you protect that well have a there's going to be a fence fence and lock we installing a fence and we'll lock locked yeah we'll have a gate so we can lock the gate yeah it's been quite a it's been quite a while the lights on this that's what I was going to ask I was going to ask about the lights and I was going to ask if there's a timer on the lights or who would be regulating the time of the lights um we have a lighting plan and in fact when we were sitting back there earlier uh we had already said we're going to have timers on the lights okay that's important because you don't want on all night long and you only want on when the kids are out there sure yeah um and and going back to one point I mean I could certainly imagine that like one parent or another is going to get on the court with kids so I'm not going to say like it's an under 15 court and no one else can can go on it but again it's not if we're not trying to create an adult health club uh at the site that that's that's not what we're trying to do okay uh uh Mr mean I want to ask you one a question that is not specifically related to to the facility but has come up in comments uh from the from the town engineer okay and so I'm going to Mark as A2 a photograph of the garbage area on the site all right and I'm going to give you [Music] one h [Music] I am sir you're marking this is A2 I did yes and the date uh I Mark the [Music] DAT thank you [Music] Mr I've shown you what I've marked as a and this is in a in a response to a comment uh that that questions the condition of the disposal area on the facility so first of all by the way if we go back to A1 the picture of the site uh can you describe where the disposal area is it's on the right hand side as they coming up the driveway right behind the Community Hall so it'd be right here so so it's just shy of the words the words are in the middle that's correct yeah and and on the right hand side right hand side correct all right so can can you actually see it or is it shielded by the building by the shrubs you you it's right by the shrubs uh behind the building yes all right so so now let's talk about A2 what what is A2 a picture of it's where we uh the dumpster for the temple all right and and am I correct that A2 has a top part which shows the gates open and a bottom part which shows them closed yes but they don't quite close do they they close all yeah due to the garbage truck backing up over time the fence has been damaged so that's why you see why some of the coverings have been you know damaged or siding off but um we can replace that right we're we're willing to to do what whatever the board reasonably wants us to do to to make sure that it's sanitary and and safe but that's what happens the what the witness says is the garbage truck backs into it and and damages it um if somebody has a great suggestion uh we would love to hear it otherwise we'll just replace just replace you replace the slats on the gates yeah okay okay right I'm Sor I didn't hear that what what are we going to go with replace they're going to replace the slacks on the gates or the gates themselves we can replace the gate I mean that's that's more economical yeah probably is and you might use a a heavier gate cuz that looks like a residential gauge sure we can put the uh a commercial gate on it and ensure it closes yeah yeah okay um uh given that uh the engineers going going to be providing much more detailed testimony about the proposed Improvement I have no further questions of this witness the board have any questions this applicant on his testimony anyone in the audience have questions of this gentleman's testimony this evening I see one sorry you this okay thank you on this board can you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth can you state your name spare your last name please and give us the company your my name is uh R Patel and I my company name is RP engineering could you please SP your name r u c h i t and last name p a TM thank you okay please sit down uh before we give any substantive testimony I have to qualify you as as an expert uh engineer so uh Mr Patel are are you a graduate of an engineering school yes and you have a degree in engineering yes I hold master in civil engineering and are you licensed as an engineer in the state of New Jersey yes I am licensed in state of New Jersey for how long have you been a New Jersey licensed engineer so actually I started my first license in New York uh in New York I have been since 2012 and New Jersey since 2019 and have you appeared before Municipal boards on land use applications yes roughly how many times so this is my third time all right um and uh have you since have have you ever had your license suspended for any reason no uh are you the person who prepared the plans that the board has yes and have you personally visited the site in order to be able to present your testimony yes I've been there I I've been there many times I belongs to this uh Community as welli thank you very much thank you okay then then Mr Patel what I would like to do is have you go through your plans and what we are also going to do as we're doing that uh maybe not quite as systematically as I would like is to go through Mr for mano's comments uh in the letter that we just received two days ago all right yes so so let's start with the plans and uh and let's just make sure for the record uh what's what's the date on the plans that you are so my plan dated November 17 2024 consisting of eight sheets yes okay great okay so I think we can sort of blow by SE sheet 1.0 but at least just mention it and and and what it is so see 1.0 is giving you location map and the zoning table and also we have provided the 200 ft uh property list yes and the list of drawings all right and if I then turn to sheet 2.0 uh could you describe what you have on sheet [Music] 2.0 so C 2.0 is uh providing the uh playground plan and schematic lay layout of the playground so on on the largest of the drawings we have roote 46 on the right hand side correct yes and then we have the matching the photograph that was already shown we have the driveway coming in we have a building to the right we have uh a a temple to the back uh and again there was a general description of where this proposed Improvement is where on on this drawing on 2.0 uh Does it show the proposed Improvement yes I'm asking that where where where does it show oh no so actually I want to go the enlarge view next you know can we because here is G the you know the yeah batter whe uh sure yeah all right all right but um all right before you do that though because there are two other drawings on here okay are you going to make use of these drawings or or are you going to use that do do this in a different way so for the uh playground plan I will go to the enlarge view on c2.1 okay yeah and have so it's better you know for the and and likewise for the schematic layout of the playground you're going to use 2.1 yes all right then let's turn to [Music] that all right can I have 2.1 in front of you yes yes okay so so based on 2.1 again let me ask as my first question where is the proposed playground going to be on the site so uh as you see on the plan the playground are sewn 82 ft by 60 6 ft that's roughly around 5 5,000 square ft and and and where on where where on on the site is it on this combined uh Lots 8 n and 10 where do we intend to put it so that will be on lot n and it's it's behind the the the residential dwelling toward the front of the property is the left side of the existing one story building and again fa facing facing the church as it were facing the church or anyway facing the church maybe is more accur all right and you've already described the dimensions uh could you also then otherwise describe generally um how this intended playground in court uh is expected to lay out so okay can you yeah I'm asking I mean we know you give the give the general size what what's going to be on here so here we going to okay so let's go back to see 2.0 so we are showing here uh the proposed picket ball card and this slide and bumblebees you know and all this playground area is surrounded you know we have a fence all parameter with one gug okay now if I stay on 2.0 the schematic lay out of the playground I think you just mentioned something called a a bumbling Betsy right I see that and I see something called an after white crocodile and I see something called a Lexington right now what what are those things so one uh no that's a slide uh I'm asking I'm asking what they are tell the board ask tell the board what they are I I'm sure they must aware right no don't don't sure I don't know what you're putting there I'd like okay yeah so it's a SL slide for the kids you know on the North side if I see the you know uh plan with north side and the South Side I have Pi pied pickle ball cart right and and these three facilities this what are called The bumbling Betsy and the after wild crocodile and the Lexington uh are those as it were off the shelf from a manufacturer yeah this is from the manufacturer you know and and they are designed to be used for children yes now one of the uh questions raised uh is whether there are safety zones uh is that something you you can address yeah so normally the the manufacturer is provide you know with each uh play equipment with the fall protection so that uh they will follow when they manufact when they build the playground right are are are these fac are these facilities geared toward any particular age group this is uh no actually this is for kids not for the adult no I understand but but for I mean is it 3 to 5 5 to 12 or does it not matter uh yeah it doesn't matter yeah okay so the idea is to have those those things uh and then I I didn't ask about one area of this which in the schematic lay out of the playground there is the rectangle uh uh beneath uh or let's say to the side of Lexington what what's going in this rectangle over [Music] here I mean I know I know the record won't know where I'm pointing but for you I'm pointing and then you can identify what I'm pointing at it's it's this rectangle here what what's going here so that's a area [Music] area is is it just empty space for now uh right right now we have not planned you know that all right so so so it's so it's just it's just a mulch the all right I know it says mulch uh uh but right now it's just a play area with without any sort of facility right and and in terms of our application to the board uh and I don't know whether the board will or will not let us put something later but for now now it's just an empty area yes excuse me um on C20 that is labeled number four on c21 number four is planters for low impact development and green infrastructure recommendations njde is that what we're referring to on number on the right side all right of where the Lexington is located uh or am I looking at something else by the way it's partially my fault because I haven't really described very well what I'm pointing at because I thought the witness would do that but what I am pointing at is the on 2.0 yes where there's the schematic layout of the playground correct and that is divided into four rectangles yes all right and three of them are labeled and one just has an arrow that says Mulch and it's an oddly shaped thing with a horizontal line going across it and and I and and so it's to the left of the elction that that's what I've been planting at or or below the other two ones up at the top so it's just on the side of this point yes yeah right but you may want to put play equipment lat dates yeah but at least for today in terms of what we're we're presenting to you it it's basically empty space um all right then could you go back now to I think you wanted to be on 2.1 or or are you done with 2.1 as well so 2.1 you the don't talk to me don't talk to them okay uh all right then then can you continue with your sheets to show what work you've [Music] done so on SE 2.1 you will see all you know elements what we are planning so playground is uh 82 ft long by 66 ft wide and we have all this Le I have given on the bottom so number two not retaining wall right so what are the element we require to build because this playground area is little rais then actually yes something is affecting the recording we have a record that's all and then it goes away yeah I think this one is doing look he volume on [Music] the cuz the guy the person before was messing with it if need be we could turn that mic often we can share a mic I'll just move over maybe move the mic to this side farther apart there's also a wall that side I think I just turned it did yeah whoops all right so now we're going to share the One mic I don't think that solved the problem oh did you get different tracks no I I just heard the humming again I just want to make sure the we don't a problem with the record all now so far it's good okay okay [Music] [Music] on no you said it has been recording it is recording good okay as long as the record's good okay all right so so before we got interrupted you were testifying as to your plan and please continue yes so as you can everyone have this plan yes okay so you uh on the North side you will see the driveway which enter to the uh property and kids will enter where we are showing you know the staircase on like South Side you know is that is that where the number seven is number seven yeah with the fans gate you know it was commented by U engineer to provide you know the gate so that you know with uh kids you know like have a safety me you know and um all element like North retaining so all Legend we have provided at the bottom what's number uh number two is uh North retaining wall number three South retaining wall number four planter for the low impact development uh number five proposed playground fans and the lighting pole we are showing number six number seven is a swing door number eight is retractable ning fans and number nine mulch right now do you have a separate lighting plan on this yes can we just turn we're out of quar the lighting plan so lighting L 1.1 second last number 78 all right so did you Des the lighting plan and and we've already noted and agreed that the light will be on CL and we be going off what did we say at 8:00 p.m. is that what we said right 8m all right and one of the comments so so I want you to describe the plan but I want you to address one of the comments uh in the engineering review which is a concern of of light spilling over onto the uh Church property on the side and I'd like you to be able to address that please as you're discussing the lighting no I'm talking to myself so right now initially we you know we have shown more lights you know and based on the comment we have change the orientation so you can see the Contour on the church property is now very low and also we have to keep in mind there is a tree line along the between the church and this uh playground area so we don't I don't see any you know flooding of the light of the next property and you can see the lighting uh ratio intensity shown with number almost Zer or1 you know by the church area on the right side is there any reason you put them 20 feet in the [Music] air sorry can I mean the the facility is going to be very well lit is there any reason that you have these poles 20 ft on oh yes that's so these are the standard you know for the playground area we use 20 ft height light pole what standard is that sorry I see it seems it it's Overkill 20 ft High 20 ft High yeah [Music] right I have seen 30 ft High you know like full yeah but for this size the parking lots we have around town the big office areas okay they're all 16 okay we can we can change right we have no problem because I think the building in the front will help Shield them from the highway 20 ft High they're going to be above no problem yeah that's 16 is is is a better number for the board just another question on the lighting um according to the lighting plan there's a there's a there the actual lighting values are presented in a grid pattern and we don't know where the property line is to the church next to you because we don't have a survey we don't have a property line here and there's a fence there that appears to belong to the neighboring church and there's a measurement of 2.4t candles right by that fence that's not one0 that's 2.4 that's basically a a parking lot lighting intensity that you are now putting on the neighboring property which requires a variance but right now on this uh we didn't consider the trees right there are three line along the neighboring property so I well but the trees are the neighbors they're not yours blocking the lights the trees it appears that way again I don't have a survey um you can't depend on your neighbor's trees to protect your neighbor from you and I don't mean you person um you know that's that's something that you that that the the applican has to address because that lighting value is a basic lighting level for a parking lot it's not just a little bit of light right and it and the lighting looks like I mean this is an in well this isn't a scale but that lighting from that light fixture goes back probably 20 30 fet into the property number one and other issue is where you have those lights as you're playing pickle ball you're going to be looking into the light so one Mr are you referring old plan or because right now I see the intensity on neighboring block is4 no this is dark the old plan has more lights you know and then we corrected [Music] [Music] on the plan I'm reading let me come again the small ones are tough to read they're a little washed out but right here approximately centered on the pickle ball court at the neighbor's fence is a lighting level of 2 of 2.7 right and usually ref flag it when it's 0.1 so you're sitting setting a significant amount of light onto the neighboring property so right now what I was talking to Phil that we have tree lines right that will u in this lighting calculation we didn't consider tree line so they might uh make a block because I seen there you know like lot of GRE well again if you're going to offer proofs to the variants and that's something you're going to have to go to is why you need that light and again those light fixtures are are not going to be friendly to people playing on that court at night because when you go to hit the ball you're going to be looking into light fixture right let me ask because I I I wasn't aware that this was an issue what is the the threshold for the variance on that it's not supposed to provide it's not supposed to have glare across the property line zero zero is the threshold um all right make good go ahead now if you position the light fixture properly if you put the light fixture at the neck yeah yeah Tom we can I second maybe you two guys can work it out this is not like we can change the orientation of light change the illum lighting intensity suggestion I have is they bring them down to 16 ft so they don't shine out the well that we've agreed to yeah and and I think that Mr Chad if you're making a good suggestion because my anticipation is there going to be several other engineering type ISS issues and what I'm hoping uh is that presuming that the board is inclined to approve this that we could get an approval subject to the engineer signing off on the necessary changes the necessary changes that would not require a variance yes okay uh yes exactly right certainly on that point and and I don't think any variances are triggered by the other issues uh the only other issue which which our engineer will address is uh the 1500 cubic yards of Earth M that was we could talk about that but but before we get to that in terms of so the condition of the this suggestion you're making is that if the board would Grant favorably on the application it would be subject to an agreement with the board engineer as to a lighting plan that would not require a various correct yes and what I've said is I believe there are going to be other engineering type of issues that also what I'm willing to do and I and I hope the what is going to do is say any approval be subject to the engineer getting full satisfaction on those issues without us having to come back to the board yeah all right then then why don't we table the lighting issue what is very clear is that by the time we are done yeah uh light can't go spilling onto the church property and we cannot be relying on the trees to block the light okay but but you'll deal with that yeah yeah we can uh you'll deal with and the light you know all right yeah so why don't we continue then s with with with your technical description of the application mostly now [Music] okay um could you discuss the the height of the various uh walls or fences that are being constructed course one of the problem is that there's a 6 foot limitation uh I don't think we are going to limit ourselves to 6 ft so that will be a ground so could you please explain to the board why we need or why we are seeking approval for fences or walls of a certain kind Al one of the comment uh we were talking about the height of the fence with relative to where you are looking so if I'm driving to the temple property driveway is below and the Park area is like roughly around average you know 4 ft higher so when I look the proposed fans from the driveway area I will be 4 ft plus whatever the fans you know so from driveway the fence looks taller but if I'm standing on the Park area it is a standard 6ot fence well the way we treat fence height is the wall if there's a if there's a fence on top of the wall it's the the whole thing right so a 4ft wall with a 4ft fence is eight that's a variance so cuz you're only l so so explain from an engineering perspective why it is that we are seeking that height so as I explained uh if I'm play like say my kids is playing inside the park area I have to protect the kids you know not you need to speak up please oh sorry yeah um so if I my kids are playing in the play area I how to make make sure he doesn't jump off the fence so that's why I'm considering the fan size from the play area around 6 ft you know you want it to be too high for them to climb on no so they will not climb you know [Music] yeah is it a see through yeah is a be CL fans yeah you can see through here effectively you SC the ball because you have to flatten out the playground as soon as you flatten out the playground you got a wall there now you put a fence on which is 6' eyes appropriate for this kind of use so that's that's the issue if it was a flat piece of ground you wouldn't have wouldn't have that uh condition is that correct yes the answer is [Laughter] yes so on the area opposite the driveway there is just a 4ot fence correct the F goes top in other words you've got you've got the retaining wall on the driveway side right okay and because the draw because the lot is sloped by the time you get to the property line side there's no retaining wall it's just the 4ot fence yes is that accurate yes no that's not correct that's not correct the the fence [Music] the there's also a retaining there so there's a retaining around the entire thing so yeah we have raining wall around you know the playground area playground is elevated right now compared to the drive area it's also elevated compared to the property line compared to property line yes yeah so there retaining wall on all four sides of the playground has a retaining wall right right does it vary in height so yeah it's very you know so maximum is going 4 ft and that's on the driveway side right right and how high is the retaining wall on the property line side so is roughly around 4T you know the height of the wall is falling around 4T so the retaining wall is 4T on all four sides right that's your your plan shows the wall is 8 ft High along the church property line along the CH yeah sorry I'm missing so the minimum is 4T and vary and maximum is going 8 ft along the driveway and then you got a 4ft fence on top of that or right you have the 20ft netting on top of that so for a maximum of 28 ft high right explain how the netting works right how how does the netting work we used track what actually happens so netting we propose so that you know any ball will not come out from the play area so that's a purpose we are putting the but it's the perent does it come up and down no a retractable yeah all right exp yeah so is a retractable netting whenever they are not playing it will be uh dismantled and and if it is retracted then how I mean if it's 20 ft High when it's being used how high is it when it's not being used it will be 8 ft so it'll it'll be you mean 8T as already calculated or an additional 8T no has already calculated yeah so so so be four wall four wall four fence that theing will be zero right by itself okay and if it's not being used it add no height at all right and if it is being used it add 20 ft but only on a temporary basis yes and I assume uh please uh I expect you to testify along this way that people will in fact be careful to make sure that that the netting is retracted nobody's going to want to keep it up yeah when it's not being used right right so whenever they not play you know they have to retract The netting do does that answer your question Mr yeah I said I'm concerned this is a for regardless of how much the total height is is a four foot fence going to be enough kids playing in the playground either from like trying to climb over or walls being batted away you got basketballs you got uh which are obviously smaller but uh so is is a for fence enough with with which with retractable fence yes so 4 ft is a standard and we have retable fence in the front of that 4 you know all right and what we going to need I guess is pickable the only thing that's going to be going on there that's going to require equipment [Music] basketb yeah ready the the fence where it's located can be 6 feet high if they want to change their mind from a 4ot to a 6 foot they could does that make create any variances doesn't make it 10 foot with the wall no well the the issue of the def fence on the top of the wall That's conf pointed out yes that that's the variance yeah so oh boy it has a wall away it get this is get to be a bag of bubbles they need a variance yeah for all so you're certain you want a 4 foot ey fence and if it turns out you going to have to come back here and get a six foot eye fence but let's let's not beat that up we don't have to and and the the thing about it is it proposed behind a building and to the west of the trees at this juncture to me it's not going to have an impact on anyone yeah what I'd like to do is is to turn to Mr all letter January 13 already covered that letter uh but I but I want to address a series of setback issues um because let me I justess I didn't say as part of this presentation that we are merging Lots 8 n and 10 now I will tell you that in 2006 the applicant said it was merging Lots 8 n and 10 and it never happened uh so you will it'll happen now uh and there are pre-existing non-conformities in Lots 8 n and 10 for instance one of Mr L's comments uh is that um the front yard setback is supposed to be 80 ft whereas it's only 25.8 but that 25.8 ft is to the existing structure uh uh facing Route 46 it has nothing to do with anything that that we're doing here so uh and so uh so I and unless the board wants us to address those I I I think we can we we can disregard them you've been here three times getting approvals prior I don't think there's a need to go over that issue again in terms of the existing conditions that are going to remain right okay but what about in Mr lano's comments I would point to B and C which are variances that you need for what you've asked for yes well well if you're talking about three B and C yeah that's what I'm talking right I I thought we had already just addressed those at length um if you want I I I can put the I just want to make sure that you you a is we're dealing with yes three B and C are bulk variances that you need in order to construct the proposed you development correct yes um d e f and g are all existing conditions that you're not changing correct correct yes okay and then do you want to address H sure I you've already addressed we've already taken care of I but H I think need all right let's address H yeah you have the letter in front of you okay so um H refers to an ordinance section it says we are to provide storm water management facilities and a maintenance plan uh so uh what do we have to say about that is are we requesting from your engineering perspective are we in a position to request a waiver of this given the the size and location of this facility looking at [Music] H January 13 what is the surface of this facility going to be is or [Music] not so rain that's coming down now will be the same percolation Tom does that trigger for water or no the plan shows that the pickle ball court is concrete so that will be impervious and that's 60 by 30 which is larger than most Footprints of houses that we see and the Border recall that every house in addition and such has to meet this ordinance um the other areas and we're going to go to C 2.0 under schematic you can see that's where it lists the pickle ball as concrete it then shows mulch in the irregular area around the equipment but then the area between that irregular well the irregular area is labeled as mulch the area outside the irregular area but still inside the rectangle is not labeled and that was the question so that will be supposed grass so that's grass yeah okay so all we have is the 18 um 1,00 Square well the 60 by 30 area of the pickle ball cord as impervious that has to be dealt with this little area here so so the so the question is given that 30 by 60 area of of coverage uh do we have uh a storm water management plan or maintenance plan or is it your testimony that we don't need one for some reason not the total area sorry toal total area here we are like 116,000 speak to the microphone so are you expecting any runoff to go either onto 46 or on any neighboring property no that area is not that big that will generate the runoff that will go to the because we have uh house property in front you know and then the Route 46 come like we have 30 ft before that area and this area is not that big that will gener generate de on off well as I said this this area just for the boards information is bigger than most houses and every house that's built in percipi needs dry Wells for storm water I I've never seen it waved so Mr L manowitz your review of this application with respect to the ordinance requirements would indicate that the pickle ball area the concrete area under the ordinance would require storm water management and maintenance plan that's correct okay can you agree to that we we we we can do a dry yeah we can can you agree to that yes we and and we would make sure that we work with the engineer in terms of exactly what the specifications that's why have so you're not asking for a variance from that requirement you're going to comply with that requirement comply with yes exactly right [Music] great all right so have so Mr Johnson as far as you're concerned have we now covered paragraph three in its entirety I believe you have but I would defer to Mr Lano as to whether all his concerns have been addressed fair enough yeah I believe so I mean the only issue we we really haven't addressed is is the wall specifically its location because we don't have a survey we can't say that this wall is a certain distance across the property line right so uh we may have a solution to that however also which is uh if I'm correct we don't you're talking about the W that says it's going to be demolished that W no no the wall that you're proposing to you to variant for and the wall that you say is going to be demolished we can't know is yours all right well well we're quite confident but but I I think we don't have to demolish that wall if I'm correct and we we can modify our plan so that we do not demolish that wall at least we can take care of that one back to us but that doesn't resolve the issue that by State Statute you're supposed to have a sign and sealed servant yeah um we we we will provide a survey that that that'll be part of the uh followup with you you're talking about the wall on thej to the property line the wall that they need a variance for we don't know how close it is to the property line because we don't have a survey if that's okay with the board Tom this a combination wall fence is that what we talking about or the wall or just on the on The View on the on the plan it's the wall at the bottom of the playground the bottom of the sheet the closest to 46 closest to Presbyterian Church okay okay but but we are going to provide a survey that'll that'll be part of the followup okay and going back to Mr John's comments that you have made many times and I appreciate them um we do not expect that we were requesting any additional variances for that wall uh no I was going to be more General I don't think that our survey is going to show a need for any additional variances okay all right right understood um okay could so if we just go through this letter then uh I've talked about the lot merger which we are going to make happen we've just talked about in paragraph six about the survey which we're going to have uh paragraph 7 there's a reference to a gravel surface that that'll be corrected on on the plans yeah all right there was a question about the position of the North Arrow that's paragraph 8 can you clarify how we're using the north Arrow so notth on the cover we always try to keep KN vertical but as you go where you provide the uh detail you Orient your PL such that is legible for the reader so you Orient Arrow according you provide same rotation you know that's a way we follow but but we're not rotating what is north north is always staying to yeah so on the cover SE always you try to keep you know we'll deal with that on the when we talk about it cuz the north Arrow did not rotate at the same level as you planned it I will verify about 30° I will verify that correct we will fix that uh we've talked about the surface treatments and we will clarify that on the plans [Music] um setback Dimensions will be determined by the survey not by the fence well that'll happen well let's you're on 10 now right yes the issue I have there is you're you're you're close to that line that we're going to establish with the Presbyterian Church the issue I have is how is all that going to fit because when you have an 8ot high modular block retaining wall you've got the walls about a foot thick the structure of the wall is about a foot thick and it's battered back so from the bottom face of the wall to the top that whole thickness turns out be about 2T yes where the plan shows it at about 3 in so we've got some some spatial things we have to deal with once we get the survey we have to make sure that how all that's going to fit yeah so if needed I will change the type of wall you know I can design the can deliv wall so we concern about the like I said I'm just looking at is this is it going to fit the way you think it's going to fit yeah yeah we will fit that you know we we will make sure that um that that is addressed in a way that is satisfactory to the board uh number 11 uh We've address the lighting unless there are any other issues on that uh number 12 has to do with calculation now you you were asked in number 12 to submit site specific stability calculations for the retaining wall uh have you had a chance in the last few days uh to to prepare those stability calculations no I will prepare those calcul all right and is it your belief uh and and we're going to be relying on on your belief in this regard that those calculations will be satisfactory yes let's hope so okay um number 13 the playground plan should be drawn to scale of so mentioned you will take care of that yes all right uh number 14 um we talked about the removal of the stone wall will that will address by the Yeah that so even we can keep if we found that you know the stone wall belongs to the Temple we'll keep it you know the stone wall because the condition is also good okay number 15 we've already addressed the trash enclosure area and what we're going to do with that and then in number 16 which talks about a major soil permit uh and it says that there are certain approvals required um and have you done a calculation of how much soil is going to be moved or have to be moved for this application so based on our calculation the soil disturbance was around 390 cubic a 390 right all right that still requires a s movement permit that's taken care of through the township Engineers okay but you can trigger a separate approval by this board so if you do trigger that you may have to come back for that permit but yeah got it thank you understood uh and we've already discussed the fall zones in paragraph 17 well I didn't really hear the answer on that one I'm sorry I missed what the answer was on that so for yeah yeah so all right Mr why don't you come up this will be Mr Sor testifying again why don't you come to the mic okay so I we do have a data sheet to show the fall zones around the uh playground resubmit I can em send that over to attorney Hill for that over to you that again that's not something that that I would that we would need to approve at this point I'm just explaining that mulch is not easy to keep its its uh its softness and there's a specific test it's called the gmax test where they drop and they and they basically measure the softness and I just want to make sure you're aware that that is a that is a a requirement I'm not sure if the building inspector is going to be looking for it or or whatever but um it is there is a there is a measurement of softness uh for depending on the fall height from the equipment so there's full height dimensions on the drawing so it will meet the necessary requirements so the impact will be absorbed by The Mulch right I understand that's the intent but again I just want to make sure that that was because if you just put if you just put four inches of mulch on it's not going to work it'll be relative to the height of the the structure and are is that something then that we're going to have to work with the building inspector um I was just making you aware of it even even if you're for you know for your for your the safety of of the kids you know it's not something that we would get into um but I just wanted to make sure that they you're [Music] aware okay uh that took care then of 17 18 is recommended conditions uh on the Highland Council uh my understanding my my my office spent quite a bit of time trying to get some information from the Highland Council and didn't really get any I hate to say it uh and we were told to just approach this board that that's my understanding to be honest it's a boilerplate comment that that last batch um we don't get involved with the I don't get involved with the highlands they do their own thing um if if you get a letter of no interest or exemption or whatever um they usually pick up the phone I mean they picked up the phone that they did okay uh but that's as much as they did did you send them the application to see whether they give you a letter of no interest uh did not but you try that the town did join the island for many many years that would not enjoy all right we I will take care of that that's that's on me uh and then uh any issue of bonds I assume that comes from the engineering department uh we we will do an asil survey we've already discussed a whole bunch of conditions I do want to raise one one remaining issue um which is this um I'm raising it because of of our representation which is sincerely made that we do not impend on needing any additional variances once we leave tonight and uh but it should be pretty obvious that our proposed facility uh is within the setback facing the church that's not a pre-existing condition that is a condition that we are creating and uh I I would ask the board to approve the setback from rout 46 no from from the church side oh from oh right okay from from the East the East property line gotcha and we're certainly we're certainly within that setback and based on the configuration of the property the location of our own driveway uh the tree line uh the where the church is the fact that it's Church property uh I'm asking the board to approve that c variance uh because we've shown uh the positive criteria why why we request it and again I I don't think there's going to be any negative impact on the Zone plan or anything else from that baring but that is a variance that no one on the board has uh has noted and I'm bringing it to your attention this proposal is notified to the church people I'm sorry this proposal has been submitted to church uh I I don't know had to be one of your notice parties no no that's that's no discussion okay but but but by the way um I mean what we're talking about is a flat surface we're not building uh you know a house uh or anything else okay that's the only both experience to requesting I think that's the only one we need once we do the merger okay uh all right I think I can say I have no further questions of this witness any questions from the board of this Witness any people in the anyone in the audience that has a question either opposed or for this application say none may I make a suggestion with respect to this potential resolution that that you authorize me to prepare this resolution in draft to share with the applicants Council just to make sure we've captured all of the right conditions of approval of potential approval because you have an um that that were discussed by Mr L Mano and Mr cha yes agree agree still need discussion and a resolution well may I just say unless you tell me it's unnecessary I did promise in my brief opening remarks that when we were done I would explain why the negative criteria over at I address that very briefly in terms of I think you've done a satisfa if I if I if I don't have to do it then then I won't yes [Music] iect the board members like to brame the resolution please I'll try Okay in application number 2465 isso 1699 R 46 block 725 lot 8910 Zone 03 um I we uh move move to Grant a is it minor major or minor would it minor minor yeah okay A minor site plan with a d variance did we talk about a c variance and a c variance to construct an outdoor playground subject to the board's engineer approving any changes in the plans the bulk variances on the survey um also any uh instruction CS by the planner of attorney and the board and the letter of January 13th 2025 second seconded burit yes oh yes yes Petty yes yes ready yes grani yes been approved Mr will give you a draft thank you very much a pleasure for us [Music] to May Nora Johnson the Bender application 2455 sure so it's now4 to 9 and the vendors have still not [Music] arrived are we dismissing this or we so this missing without prent so I think someone needs to make a motion I'll make a motion to dismiss this without without PR without prees second all fav I I we close the session motion to close session please so M second all in favor all in favor [Music]