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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=Akrp3IXLWzc

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We're on record. >> Good evening and welcome to the meeting of the Township of Pipony Troy Hills Board of Adjustment. Today is Wednesday, June 3rd, 2026 and is 7:30 p.m. Announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that is being conducted in

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accordance with NJSA 104-6 of the New Jersey Open Public Meetings Act. Local Mr. Crows here. No. Uh, Mr. Joskowitz >> here. >> Mr. Mozarella >> present. >> Mr. Modi

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>> present. >> Mr. Rajapati >> here. >> Mr. Ready >> present. >> Chairwoman Graani >> here. >> We have our board planner Mr. Chadwick >> here. >> Board engineer Mr. Lammanoit >> here. >> And your board attorney Mr. Johnston >> here.

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>> Would you please stand and join our board in the pledge of >> allegiance? To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic of the United States, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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on something other than is on our agenda for this evening. I see that. Nora, resolutions, please. >> Okay, we have uh resolution 2603 12 Elm Street, block 572, lot 4.03.

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Those who can vote. Mozzarella readyani. Can I have a motion? >> So move second. Mozzarella. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Ready? >> Yes. >> Gran. >> Yes.

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>> Agenda application 2613. Rah Yanni 19 Madison Avenue block 605 lot 9 zone R4 a C variance to construct a new single family dwelling with

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attached garage roofed front porch shed deck patio and other site improvements contrary to section 430-35 columns 3 and 10 section 430 275X.

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This is an application that was carried for May 6th, 2026. Good evening. >> Can you raise your right hand, please? >> Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last name, please.

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>> My Johnny, last name is Johnny. J A N I. >> Okay. So, the last time that you were here, um there was a um an issue with respect to the fact that the plans that the board had were not necessarily the same plans that the engineer had

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reviewed and there was a difference between two engineering letters as to whether there was or was not going to be a dry well. Okay. So I I understand from looking at the file that you submitted a

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new site plan. Is that correct? So why don't you tell the board what it is that the new site plan shows in terms of what you want to do? >> I have my >> Oh, you do have somebody here. Great. Perfect. Come on. Can you raise your You

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can stay. >> Uh swear from the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Great. You can have a seat. Thank you. >> Make sure you use the microphone. >> Say your name. Spell your last name. >> Nikol Kasadala. Last name is Kasadwala.

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K A S A D W A L A. >> Okay. And what is your relationship to this application? >> So uh Mr. Rakkesh Jani is my family friend and I'm going to build the house for him. I'm a local uh builder and resident of Paripani here. So uh last time uh there was a issue with the plan

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and everything. So we would like to start with the note of the apology that the plants which we submitted everything was not uh matching the stuff and everything is corrected now and >> Okay. So you're the potential builder. So you're familiar with the plans that

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were prepared um by Mr. Sterns the engineer. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um and so why don't you walk the board through >> what the current proposal is with respect to the property. >> Sure. Uh so uh basically uh Mr. Wakkesh Jani is uh the owner of the property.

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They stayed at the property for many years and uh uh they are staying together uh with his brother and the daughter. Uh so family is expanding and uh they need a bigger place to stay as such. So they decided to rebuild the whole house. Uh this house is

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comparatively old. It's not at all a eyeshore but they want a better living space. So they decided to do the new construction there. uh by default the lot width is 50 from the frontage perspective and as per the R4 zone is needed 60 so it need a variance for the

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front lot width second uh the driveway on the left side existing is within the setback of the uh town ordinance so uh we request that uh let us retain the driveway so we don't have to cut the driveway and put the grass there because is the existing situation there and the

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third is uh when they are building the house they are exceeding the uh coverage uh which is like uh uh it's 22.31 proposed as such because that's the need of their family just now. Uh so they would like to request this variance for

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this uh from the family need perspective and uh uh that's the reason we are in the front of the board just now. It's a typical uh two family uh sorry single family home uh with garage uh build almost uh in Lake Hayata 07034. I myself

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has built almost six houses there. It is very similar houses which are built and it is coming along with that also. Uh and once this is built it will be a very nice house and uh it will uplift the area look also.

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>> Yeah. As per the current uh engineers report you don't require any ST management I believe. >> Yes. Uh so Mr. Paul Nihal from the participant engineering department was kind enough to review our plan and uh since there's a existing house and a detached garage. So what we are doing is

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uh we are making a new house and due to that the existing footprint coverage is actually reducing. >> So uh uh that's why we don't need any storm water management also. >> Yeah grandfather. Yeah. So so I don't see I don't see it up here. I don't

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think we had it in the previous package. the inside of the house, the layout of the rooms. Is Is there anything Do you have anything with that on it or could you explain to us what >> Sure. >> for a rendering of the outside of the house? I >> I I'm more concerned about what's being built inside just cuz

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>> quite honestly when the two families flipped out, I didn't uh >> No, it's a not a two family home. Two brothers staying together since long. >> I just want to see I'd just like to know what the inside layout's going to look like. >> Sure. The architecture plan has been submitted, right? So this architecture

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plan which is uh based on which the engineering plan has been made has been submitted. So on the first floor uh they have >> Wait, hold on hold on a second. I just want to confirm. So are you so >> there's an architectural plan that was submitted.

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What what is >> I don't I I might not have voted. It might be on me. >> What is the What are you looking at? Can you tell me who drew those plans? So this is what our Patel double A V A R T Patel does. That's the pump. That's the architecture plan.

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>> We don't have the last plans of the last. >> Yeah, that's what I was saying. Maybe I might be my error. >> Well, the la the architectural plans that were submitted the last time >> do not have the name of the architect on

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them. That was one of the issues. None of the plants actually had the name of the person who produced the plan. >> Are you looking? What is the date of the plan that you have there? >> It is >> 51326.

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May >> 13th 26 May 14. >> Yep. >> What is this? 3526. So that's not that those aren't the architect the architectural plans that the board had at the last meeting

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>> were not those plans. >> Yes. And I have a signed and sealed copy of that >> of the ones that were >> uh the the current uh >> what what's the date you have? So, uh, just hold on a second. We're

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just trying to show you something. >> Revised, uh, drywall removed, shed added, coverage updated by 132. >> And those are architectural plans. >> No, this is this one. >> That's site plan. >> That's site plan. >> Yeah, that's site. >> We have

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architectural. >> We just don't have the architectural. >> This small. Yeah, but you get a different date on the one and 35. >> Yeah, that's what we >> And you're saying what's the date on yours? >> What do you want yours?

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>> 35 uh on this it is 51326. >> 51326. So they don't the dates don't match. >> Do you know if they were filed? >> So I think uh two to three copies of this plan was handed over. I'm not sure but definitely we need more uh since the

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two or >> not sure. Okay. And who prepared? >> So this is this plan is prepared by Mr. Award Patil. He's an architect here. Uh he has submitted a lot of plans here in Paripony. >> Why did he put his name on his >> Those aren't the right

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>> that's the old Sure. >> The solution to this is some one of you, your team pulls the plan up and who's ever going to describe Sure. >> what it is, describe it, tell it, the date.

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>> Sure, I will do that. >> Uh, basically, I'll just hold this up. >> Somebody can hold it up and you can explain. >> Yep. So basically uh it's a basement first floor, second floor in the attic. >> Uh first up who prepared it?

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>> It's prepared by our Patel. Mr. A V A R T Patel. He's an licensed architect in New Jersey. >> Okay. And his name Dave is on that plate. >> Yeah, his name is there on the plan. >> All right. So we're going to mark that plan day one with today's date. And you're going to hand that to Norah before you leave.

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>> Sure. Nobody has seen this plan from our side of the aisle. >> Right. >> Okay. But my understanding is that it was not submitted to the board. >> Okay. My question is this the existing house plan or is this the proposed one? >> This is the proposed one and it will be brand new construction. We are not going

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to use anything existing there. Not even foundation. So we are going to demolish the whole house and everything what is there and we are going to build the new house there. >> And the plan is for this new house. >> How many kitchens are there? >> One kitchen. >> Okay. Good. >> On first floor only. >> What is on the first floor? on the

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first. >> Let's go to the basement first, please. >> Sure. Basement. Just >> do you have only one copy? >> Nora, you have a copy of this plans. No, >> I have site. You gave me site plans. >> No, I gave this copy as well.

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>> So, two copies were given as per the client, but looks like it's not here just now. >> Do you have extra copies with you? >> Unfortunately, not. So in the basement uh it's an uh open basement here which is unfinished.

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>> I can't can you step back a little? >> Sorry. >> Well, our engineer really needs to look at this. >> Yeah. >> Maybe I will submit more copies and uh we'll get a new date. >> That would have been looked at by the zoning office.

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>> And were they did they look >> Why is there so much confusion? Document submission issue on our side maybe. >> I'm sorry. >> Maybe document submission issue on our side that we handed over only two copies. >> This one this was submitted to zoning office. >> Yes.

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>> Did the review? >> No. >> That's the reason. >> So we have a variance here and uh so that's why it came here. >> Thank you. I do have >> I do have good in that case. Let's go. >> Okay. Thank you.

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>> Okay. So explain what's in the basement. >> So basement is uh unfinished here and uh uh it's total open area in a way. Uh there is uh on the back there's a garage on the left side and uh in the front right side there is a sump pump here for

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the water management. Uh in case uh there's an issue otherwise it is unfinished U-shaped stairs going up from the basement to the attic. >> Are there any bathroom facilities in the basement? >> No, there is no bathroom in the basement. >> Is there any plumbing in the basement?

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Just do it. Hold on. >> Yeah, washer. >> Okay. So, uh we are making a plumbing for washer dryer in case if you need to do it. But, uh uh we'll just put the plumbing do the roof and leave it there in case if you need because many times

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what happens is uh on the first floor or the second floor due to vibration of the machines the house shakes and it will weaken the structure of the house. So, we want to make a provision for the plumbing for just washer and dryer in the basement. Okay. Not not >> that that that isn't enough for me, you

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know. Um having plumbing rough plumbing in uh the basement can leave it wide open to do anything in the future. >> No, that is exactly for the laundry, right? >> Laundry only. That's it. >> Just >> just the laundry. >> Hot and cold water. That's it.

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>> Okay. >> And there is an it's a walk out basement. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a walk out basement in the red. It has to some place that goes into the soup sanitiz. >> Could you please go to the first B first

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floor please? >> Sure. >> Just just a quick question. Where does a sump pump discharge? >> So in general uh sump pump discharge can be at two place. One is uh in the daylight or uh if your town allows uh we

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put it uh with the calculation in the drive but there is no driver here so we will make a daylight there. >> Okay. How is that going to be controlled so it doesn't erode or flood anybody? >> So generally we put the daylight in the rear side of the property uh going back

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uh that's the way the whole pipe goes there and we put a daylight in the rare side between the middle of the property there. If the township allows we can connect. Uh generally the in the past the sump pump has always gone on the road but

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which is not allowed now. So there are two >> you can't put in the sanitary either. >> Yeah. Neither the sanitary we never did it like we never put the uh sump pump in the sanitary. It's not allowed from the beginning. So there are only three options. Either we put it on the road which has been blocked now. We do the calculation put it in the dry well but

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there is no dry well here. So third option left with us is just the daylight there. Was the was the towner aware of that? >> Did he see these plans with the sump pump on it? >> So he has seen the plan with the sump

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pump but that in the in general once the board approves it, it goes for the review again for the engineering and at that time uh they ask us what to do. That's the general practice in parallel. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> So uh I'll just move ahead with the

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first floor. >> What's on the first floor? So on the first floor uh definitely uh there is a kitchen and at the entrance uh there is uh open living space there. Uh and there is a stairs uh which is coming from the basement. Uh behind that uh there is a

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uh dining area kitchen. Uh there is a small powder room there. Uh there is a exercise room/ office there. Uh with the attached bathroom. So on the first floor there is one and a half bath, one exercise room, kitchen and the family in the living room is there. Are there any bedrooms on the first floor?

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>> So, uh as such technically no bedroom on the first floor. This exercise room only >> but the exercise room can be converted into a >> bedroom also because what happens is uh in general uh if there is any family need where the stairs cannot be used to go up and down. People like to stay

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there because of some reason. Sometimes elder people comes from family and they cannot go second floor because of the need. So this room can be used as a bedroom. And there's a front door and a rear door. >> So there's a front door here uh with the front porch and uh there is a rear door

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from the kitchen here. >> Okay. So just two ways in two two ways in and out. >> Two police in and out. >> Front door and a rear door. >> Rear door. And uh uh from the garage also there is one door other than the main garage door. So it's a side entrance from the door uh from the garage itself.

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>> Yeah. And then there's the second floor. >> Yep. >> What's on the second floor? >> So on the second floor uh Just >> is that door on the garage needed? >> So uh generally uh to go in the back uh

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if you want to go in the back from the garage we don't want to open the main garage door because there's a life uh there like how many time you can open and close it. So from the garage if you want to access the back so we use that small door to go there >> to access the back of what the house. >> Yeah to do something there. So we are

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just trying to reduce the open and close of the door. It's a common thing >> go in the front door and out the back door. No, >> no, the garage the side door opens in the garage. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Without the door. >> No, but it goes into the house from the garage. Correct. Not from not from the outside of the garage into the garage.

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>> Like from outside the house. >> Yes. >> The door that goes into the garage. >> Into the garage. And from there you can get into the house, >> right? >> Yeah. Like >> come into the garage. >> No, I use my garage door and I go into that. So they go a door and then how do

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you get out? Right there somewhere >> and then there's another door there. Okay. >> And the second floor is going to have another one too. >> What else? >> On the second floor we have a three bedrooms and a family room. And from the

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family room you can go uh to the second floor deck there. >> So the family room, the family room is on the second floor. >> Yes. To go to the deck. So it's a sitting area for them. So the whole family can sit there and it has access to the second floor deck. >> So in order to go on the deck, I have to

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go through the bedrooms or through a hallway past the bedrooms to go out on a deck. Is that what you're telling me? >> So from the uh walkway to the family room, then the deck >> below that is a patio. Correct. >> Yeah. Below that there's a patio that >> the top floor.

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>> Okay. >> Is there a way to get to the deck from the outside >> of the second floor? No. So there's no stairs down to the desk. >> No stairs on the second floor deck. >> And how many bathrooms will you have there, please? >> So here uh we have three full bath for

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three bedrooms. >> And there's a washer and dryer on the second floor. >> Yeah. >> So there's a Thank you very much. There's a washerd dryer on the second floor also. >> But you're making provisions to put the washer and dryer in the basement with

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just hot and cold water. >> Yes. No pipes for plumbing to make an additional bathroom. Is that correct? >> No, it will be just one point for the washer and dryer. Hot water, cold water, and the discharge. That's a >> Yeah, I But you could always tap off of those. Anyway, it's not like you can't

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just run whatever piping you want afterwards. >> Can I go to the exercise room? I have a question. Exercise room will have a a closet >> so that it can be made into a bedroom. >> There is uh as such in the exercise room there is no closet there. >> Okay. So behind the kitchen there's a

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pantry and behind the pantry there's an exercise room. There is no >> I think we have to remember that once someone builds a house they they have some leeway. They could always throw up a closet in that exercise room and have a bedroom. >> Yes, we know that it >> is what it is. >> But but three bedrooms upstairs

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>> on the second floor. There is only three bedrooms. >> It will be four bedroom maximum, right? >> Maximum four bedroom maximum. >> Yeah. >> How do you get to the attic? So the stairs are U-shaped uh stairs. So to go to the attic is a walk up attic. It's not pull down. And

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>> what's going to be up in the attic? >> Attic will be total unfinish area. Nothing. >> Why are you using that type of access as opposed to a pull down >> pull down with stairs? >> So the reason is like if you want to store something like the backs or something from the pull down it's not

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easy. That generally we travel outside US we have big bags. So to lift the bag from the pull down is not easy. So, if you have U-shaped stairs, it's easy to put go and put the uh backs there. Attic will be unfinished. >> Talking about a spiral type stair. >> Yeah, U-shaped spiral.

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>> You think that's easier than going straight up a >> ladder type? >> Yeah. So, it's a size of the stair. >> I disagree. >> I think the better the better way opinion >> pull downstairs >> and there's more than sufficient room to

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bring a very large suitcase. I've been doing it for over 50 years. >> So I you you would I don't >> What's the height of the attic? >> Height of the attic. >> Pull down stairs. I put more

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attic. >> I'm seeing the elevation for the height of the attic. >> The height. Yeah. >> So total clear height will be six to seven ft in between clear height. The the problem is the reason why most

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people would want the design you want is because they're going to use it a lot. >> They're going to go up there a lot. So to say that you're going to be bringing luggage down every once in a while. It doesn't make a lot of sense to us, I don't think. >> So sometimes it's a kids play area also that they no,

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>> but that's not what you just said. >> Oh yeah. It's generally we use it for the storage purpose only. That's the main intention that uh is is easy for us. Nothing else. >> Would your would Mr. Johnny agree that the attic will only be used for storage

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and not converted to any living. >> But I think you need to pull it have a pull down or you pull down the stairs. You agree to that? >> Get rid of this uh stairs and uh go for pull down. pull down will not work because uh I I prefer going uh via full

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uh stairs rather to pull down because since past two two uh maybe 15 17 years I have been experiencing pulling down the stairs and walking up myself I'm really huge to go upstairs having pull downstairs and going up there to store

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my luggage >> it is not working for me I'm sorry >> you can be as sorry as you buying a sturdy >> stair pull down stairs. So >> they have only one option they are saying that do the pull down. This is not they are not agreeing to this. >> So we have to do the pull down. That's

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what they are saying. >> You have to agree to that otherwise you have to change your choice. >> He's giving you good advice. So uh >> you want to put a restriction on it that

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it couldn't be converted to >> there is no intention to convert >> intention to no it's not about intention not even about just you living there if you ever sell the house and somebody else intends to and also too because they said that only for kids to play upstairs

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>> I didn't say that so you know the best way to handle it is, he's right, is to put it in the resolution that it's only intended to be storage >> and that can never be handled or resold and used in a different way than

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intended. >> Attic attic use for storage only, >> right? >> Not a living space >> and pull down. >> Okay. >> And pull down. >> There are a few recommendations and unfinished. >> Yeah, it's unfinished. I already mentioned it yet. So,

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>> what we're asking for, I know what you want. What we're asking for and what some of us are leaning to >> to agree to this is that it stays unfinished. >> It stays unfinished. >> Thank you. And it's a pull down. >> Pull down.

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>> That's what we would request. >> But I cannot go upstairs. >> I did. You can experience that. >> So many people other than you large, small or in the middle figure out how to get their luggage from their from their attic. >> I did not experience.

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>> Well, um that's how I'm leaning. Maybe other people were leaning a different way. >> This is the recommendation from the board. There are many ways that you can bring your your suitcase >> otherwise we have to change our plan. We don't have much choice. >> Fine. So we'll go for the attic will be unfinished and we'll do the pool down

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there. >> Right. And a location of the pull down we have to figure out with the architect because uh the it was not designed but in the hallway we'll make it pull down there and we'll take care of it that way. >> Right. >> Thank you. >> And the basement would only have

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>> hot water service >> water service strictly for your washing machine and dry >> that is alternative for the second floor whatever >> if the issue is there if vibration or something then only >> then only we'll do it but we are just making rough there and we'll be unfinished.

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Are there any other questions from the board? No. The testimony that has been given, >> excuse me, Loretta, you said um just water for the washer and dryer. >> That's all. >> But it you have to exit the water. So, you have to put the water in the sewer to get it out of the

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>> Not that no bathroom in the basement. >> That's That's it. No. >> No bathroom in the basement. No bathroom. >> Agreeing to that 100%. >> Or a kitchen. >> Yeah. Fine. Okay. >> Okay. Any other questions from the board? >> I do have a question. Could you just

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explain to the board why you want the driveway to remain where it is right on the property line because you need a variant for that. >> Sure. So, it's an existing driveway otherwise we have to move the existing driveway on the right and we have to depress the curve also to meet the width

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and everything. So, we are trying to avoid that and since it's an existing condition, we are requesting that let it be that way only. Uh so we don't have to take care of the all of the stuff from the engineering perspective. >> It looks from the site plan that the property owner immediately adjacent also

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has a driveway on the property line. Is that accurate? >> Yes. Is that way since many years? >> Okay. So both those properties have driveways that meet each other. >> Meet each other. >> What is is there anything in the middle of those two driveways? >> Nothing as such. >> It's asphalt the whole way.

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>> In a way that is many years as such. So your neighbors doing the exact same thing. They have their driveway right on the property. >> Yes. >> Excuse me. >> So the back of the house that that area there is all driveway too behind the house

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>> leading to the garage. >> How about you? Pardon sir. >> It says Macadam Drive behind the house and then there's the frame garage frame. >> So that's the existing condition you're looking at. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. >> Okay. So you're getting rid of that. Okay. >> Okay.

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>> Gotcha. and and he's putting in a 10x10 shed. >> Yeah, 10 x 10 shed. We are going to put that there for the storage of uh garden related stuff. >> That makes sense. >> Right. >> You mentioned uh the existing uh

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existing building coverage >> versus the proposed one. Proposed wall will have a lower build area. Is that correct? >> Exactly. Because just >> by how much? M 4

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>> because in the in the table it's not >> 358 ft. >> Yeah, we are reducing the coverage of the first floor by 358 square ft. >> That's from engineering report. >> Engineering report. Yes. >> So that's why you're improving the

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information. >> Exactly. >> Good. >> Any other questions from the board? >> No, I'm good. >> No, please. Is there any questions from the audience of the testimony that has been given this evening of this gentleman? >> I see.

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>> Okay. >> Would one of my board members recommend approval of this application? >> Oh, is that is that your case? Is it enough? >> You have any other witnesses? >> Nope. >> Any other witnesses? >> Are you No, you have nobody else.

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>> Nobody else speak on your behalf. >> Okay. No one else. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm going to be voting for it. I think you cleaned it up. I think it's reasonable. Uh, we're going to add the stipulations of the water issue in the basement, the stairs,

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>> unfinished attic, >> unfinished attic. Unfinished basement. >> Attic only used for storage. >> Pull down. >> Yep. >> So, >> and and the basement. Um, no sewer, >> right? Only water for laundry. >> Okay. >> No kitchen.

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>> But it should state no no. It should stay in the resolution. >> So application 26 column 13 Reshest Janney 19 Madison Avenue block 605 lot 9 zone R4 recommend granting receive errands to construct a new single family

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dwelling with detached garage roof front porch shed deck patio and other site improvements contract to section 430-35 columns 3 and 10 sections 430-275X with the stipulations that we just

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discussed. Second resolution. >> Second to >> ready made a second. Cro. >> Yes. >> Josh. >> Yes. >> Mozzarella. >> Yes. >> Modi. >> Yes. >> Presby. >> Yes. >> Ready? >> Yes. >> Gyani. >> Yes.

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>> Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. >> Application 26 col 12. 9 >> 10 California Road. >> Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize. >> Application 2609,

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>> Le Young 50 James Street, >> lot 147, lot 3, zone R3, a C variance to construct twotory additions, patio and landing with stairs contrary to section 43035,

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column 4. You raise your right hand, please. You swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing. >> Oh, okay. Have a seat. >> Okay. Have a seat. Make sure you use the microphone. >> Okay. Can you state your name and spell

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your last name? >> Lee Dong. D E O N G. >> Can you close to the microphone, please? >> Lee Dong. D O N G. >> Okay. So, can you tell the board what it

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is that you're here for? What what you want to do? >> We are going we are going to expand it because the teeth is going up big. We need more space for them. So you it looks like you need one

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variance for front yard setback. >> Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. Can you understand me? Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um and you're supposed to have um 40 foot of front yard setback and

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you're proposed there's two proposed 33.2 and 45.2. Where is the 33.2? Is that to the PA walkway? Do you know? >> Please. >> Excuse me. What was that, John? >> It's gone.

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>> Oh, okay. Oh, sorry. I apologize. I I missed that. So, the addition is going to come out too far towards Fair View Place. Correct. >> Yes. >> Why do you need it that way? >> We need because we need more space for

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the people going up. We need Okay, you're looking at a set of plans in front of you that it looks like that the board does not have. So, the only thing the board has is this. >> You see the document I'm looking at right I'm showing you right here.

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>> No, it's not about we have Right. I don't see any plans. I don't see anything that Mr. Dwong has in his hands. I just see this >> which has no name on it. >> Mr. Is that

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the last one? >> Yeah, that's the last one. >> That's the last one. >> This is it. >> That's all I got. Do >> you have it? >> Yes. No. >> We don't have that either. >> No, this one.

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>> Mr. D. This is the only one that we have, >> right? Does anybody else have anything else? >> Does anyone else have anything other than what I'm showing? Mr. Doc >> besides besides that, we don't have anything. >> What's the date of your plans?

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>> I don't have I didn't get plans for everyone. I have a set of plans for me, set of plans for zoning, set of plans for uh and these are dated 1925.

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>> Okay. So, can you explain the um the the site plan that you have in front of you? Does that does that have a name that who prepared that? >> The uh the architecture in both plan is

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the designer for our plan and then we talk with him but he's very busy. We cannot bring him here. >> We don't want to wait. Did he sign the P? Did he sign the form? Did he sign your application? Did he sign your plans?

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>> His name on the plan. >> The drawing had on the right bottom there's a table. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What's his name? >> Is his name written over there? >> Let me see. >> Right there. Right there. >> Right there.

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>> The original plan submitted to me uh Babula something like that. Babula architecture >> and these are >> John Babula >> 121925 is the date. >> So those are architectural. >> Yes.

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>> Were there any was there a site plan submitted? uh he submitted his survey uh which you should have a copy of >> it was a very large survey. So you got >> well do you have extra copies with you

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what >> of this the architect plan >> yes do you have more copies of that with you? >> Yes. If you need it, we can go to the office. He can print out for me. >> Do you have it right now? Right.

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>> He only has one. >> Is the addition a twotory edition? >> Yeah. But you know depend on the uh the plan you guys approval. If not approval, we can do not do the one more bedroom on

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the top of the kitchen. Should be okay. >> Mr. Attorney, I think we need to see a whole set of architectural plans. >> Mr. D, we will we would appreciate >> Yes. >> you giving extra copies of your plan

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>> to Nora so that the board can see what you're planning on. She only has one copy. That is not sufficient for all of us. >> I already give her everything what she needs. >> Well, we only have She only has one copy, sir. >> You gave me one for me, one for zone, and one for engineer.

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>> Yeah. >> You >> So, you'll have to come back. >> Yeah. >> You You're going to have to submit those plans. >> If you did it, I can go back to the office tomorrow. He can bring out and bring it over. But you can't. >> Yeah. Well, we don't meet the next day.

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We we only meet when we meet. We we we're appointed, but we donate our time. So, we're not here every day. >> Yeah. >> So, I everything. So, I my my my application is watch is what on last

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year. I've been waiting for one year and a half. So uh you guys please give me the answer or something you know >> the answer the we cannot give you an answer this evening because we do not have your newest plans for all of us to

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see and we can make that's only one copy sir that you gave her we need copies I apologize but >> but if I ask a naive question >> if he's just asking for the only variance he's asking for is a front

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setback. >> Yeah. >> What do we need to see everything else >> to make sure? >> To make sure what we know he wants the variance for the setback. >> You're not asking for anything else. >> Well, the issue is if you have a house that's not conforming most a lot of

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times you want to see the house >> that's not conforming, >> right? >> And the answer was not clear. One story addition or twotory addition, >> right? >> Good answer. There's there's also an issue with the setback from James Street. It's not measured to

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the to the face of the building closest to the road. Uh you can see and I I have it out a picture on my phone, but you can see that to the left the the wall to the left of the entrance is more forward than the wall to the right of the

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entrance. And the setback's measured to the right. It should be measured to the left. >> So my question to you is, is us getting another set of plans good enough? Should he have somebody here that is going to understand and explain

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uh this situation to justify getting the variance? >> Well, having a professional always makes it go better. And I'm not saying that. >> Well, I don't want the gentleman to come back for the, >> you know, to have someone who's experienced and how these things are supposed to be prepared. Maybe we need to explain that to him a little bit better.

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>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I >> So, you you're going to need other than the plants because our engineer has some questions and our board members, you might want to think about bringing in

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your who who you paid for this to be able to explain to us and answer the engineers questions. I or they bring my plan to the engineering department. >> No, it's not the engineering department. We need you

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>> to have your representative explain to us. The town engineer is not that's not his job. >> He had gone to the town engineer board and storm water management he's talking about and they did respond. Right. >> Right. But that's so the new the new

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question is about the setbacks. >> Yeah. Did you say that your architect would not come to the meeting? >> Yes. So I try to guide him here. He very busy. He say maybe I can, maybe not. So

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I spend money for him. And then he draw the plan for us. But you know the thing is we've been waiting for year and a half. So would you guys please give me the answer yes or no or something? You know, you can you can vote on it.

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based upon what you have. >> If you've been waiting for a year and a half, it's worthwhile getting your architect to this meeting. >> Well, what what happened? >> It's imperative that he got >> the year and a half waiting is you submitted an application. >> Yes, I choice.

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>> You came before the board. The board carried your application, your prior application to another date because there were some questions with respect to that prior application. on the date of that next hearing date. You did not

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appear at that hearing date. >> I did not receive the notes on the >> We told you we we told you then the first night that you were here >> and then I saw VG my you can see I walk and then take care of the kid, you know.

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Oh my goodness. >> So because you did not appear at your rescheduled hearing date, the application was dismissed and you had to refile the application. Okay. >> So, this application that the board is hearing now has not been a year and a half. It's been since it was filed,

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which I don't have the date in front of me, appears that this was filed February 26th of this year. This current application that the board is is is reviewing >> which is 3 months, >> right? >> You're lucky at least to

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>> And then what is next step going to be doing? >> So, it's making copies. of the plans that Norah has and bringing a professional, your architect or a planner or engineer to answer the questions that we're going to have about

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the setbacks which you might not have the answers for. So this instead of you just giving us the plans and then we still have more questions that you won't be able to answer, we giving you some guidance that maybe you have a professional, >> someone who's paid. You tell them like

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Mr. Chadwick said, "For me to get this, I need you to show up." >> And >> so, what day am I going to be sewing up? Well, we're going to give you that shortly. >> Dora, may we have a carry date, please? >> Uh, I'll make a motion to carry it to

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whatever date Nora has. >> No, no. Father, can you get there? You are. >> Yeah. I I try to get him here all the time, but you know, he say I'm so busy. Well, you paid him good money for this, so he should be here for you.

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>> Yeah, that why that's why I say half. I still hope it's half. >> Oh, maybe that's why we I'm not stupid. >> That's a That's a good move for sure. >> Oh, God. >> So, we've been waiting for a year and a half, you guys. So, please give me that.

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>> All right. >> All right. Hold on. Hold on. Let's go. >> Will you be able to get everything together for a July 8th date or do you need one? Let me write down my my >> Yeah, write it down. So, we don't want you to miss that one. >> My my start over again.

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>> Okay. So, you're asking the board to carry it till July 8. Hold on, Mr. Dwan. You're asking the board to carry it till July 8th so that you can submit these plans and bring your professional >> like say, so why your plan is waiting a year and a half? Nothing coming up.

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Please forget about it. I say if you want it, you got to be present. That all I can say. So, does July 8th work? >> July 8, right? >> Yes. >> Motion, please. >> So, >> motion. >> He can move it. >> July 8th. And uh what time? 7:30.

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>> 7:30. There is no >> And what do you need, Mitch? >> Again, make more copies of the plan so every member of the board has a copy. >> And yes, >> get them filed as soon as you can. >> Well, he has them filed. No, he just

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doesn't have enough copies. needs to bring the copies. >> Got everything. >> Get the copies. Get the get the copies to Nora. >> How many? >> How many of us? >> Uh they everyone watch one. Make it 12. >> 12 copies.

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>> 12 12 copies. >> 12 copies. And you need to bring your professional. >> 12 copy and talk to you guys, right? >> Yeah. Just cuz we want to say hi. >> He's going to talk to you. And understand there is there is going to be

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no new notice. >> This is your notice >> official date. >> So if you don't appear on the July 8th date, your application will be dismissed again. >> Yeah, we don't want to do that. >> Understand?

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Again, >> you understand? >> No, I now I write down I not everything. >> All right, good. >> All all in favor? >> I >> thank you. Okay. Thank you so much. >> Just bring just bring the plants to Nora as soon as you can. Don't wait till July

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8th or July 7th. >> And come back to talk. >> Bring bring the plants to her like as soon as possible and then you'll be set and >> Okay. Thank you. >> Good luck. And so >> have a good walk home. >> Yes, sir. One more. >> See you later, buddy.

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>> Thank you. Application 26 12 10 Califon Road lot 369 lot 23 >> zone R4 a sea barriers to construct the twostory rear edition second story

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edition over existing first story and landing and stairs replace relocate contrary to section 430-35 columns 8 10 13 and section 4/3

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10. Can you >> raise your right hand, please? You swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing. >> Are you both going to be testifying or just >> Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth,

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and nothing? >> Please, both of you state your name and spell your last name. Yeah, my full name is Brian and the last name is spelled s u b k r a. >> Okay, you can sit down. Make sure you use the microphone here. Okay, and

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ma'am, your first name is S. >> Okay, have a seat. Make sure you use the mic. Before you introduce yourself, have you seen the report from the township

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engineering department? >> Yes. >> Dated May 4th. >> Yes. >> May 28th. Have you had a chance to meet with them? >> Yeah. I met uh engineer Paul >> May 28th >> and then I gave the storm water document >> and I didn't read far enough.

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>> May 28th. Here you go. >> They have a whole plan here. Do you have full plan? >> Is there you know who there's no signature on the plans. Who prepared it? >> Madam Chair, Madam Chair, the a letter from the engineering department talks

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about a plan prepared by Thomas Jagger and Associates. Uh the plans we have have no title blocks on them. They're not complete. So we really >> stand to Tom. >> We really don't know where this came from. And if this is the plan that engineering looked at, >> okay, that's what I saw. Not the plan,

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but it spells it all out. Pass it down to Tom. >> Yeah, let him look at it. I'll need it back, but let him take a peek at it. >> There's no paddle block. No, like even the notes are cut. >> Can I ask a question? What What did you

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What was submitted >> to the board? Um I'm working with a architect by name JC Design. She is from the Bergen County. So we worked with her and she gave a plan on how we how the structure of the building is going to be

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on my 40x 100 plot when it is built and she also said how the existing one and what will be the difference how it is going to work out and then we submitted that plan whatever she gave and um what uh there were since it's a small lot adding a extending my home by 7 ft in

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the backyard is going to uh cause in for a variance and then it is a split home. So I'm trying to convert my attic bedroom into a full-blown room that is on the second floor. So right now I have a attic bedroom wherein I cannot walk with my heads up. So we are trying to

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raise the building. So that is what we are trying to do and uh so in uh with that said there are some variances because of uh uh the plot size being a smaller one. Anything adding right now breaks the variances whatever is

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required. So and second thing that when I got the uh response back from the city government, I was told that uh since it is a small lot, I need to prepare for the storm water drainage plan which I worked it out and then I gave it to uh

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engineer Paul and uh I'm not sure if you have a copy. I have one copy I can give to >> Exactly. So is there a set of architectural plans that were submitted for >> uh and something signed in sealed?

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>> No, I have a survey Tom Jagger which and you have a condensed version because what was submitted to zonin was larger and whoever made the copies of it, >> you know,

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>> did not copy that. dropped off the >> yeah they didn't >> I believe I met someone by name Robert I'm not sure um in the building wherein I gave the document what was given by the uh architect >> the architecture

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there's no certification >> no the plans that you have does it have the architectural signature and >> this is this is I this is the surveyor uh I don't know who did this because whoever made the cop copies uh in zoning

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did not copy that portion >> about architecture. >> Do you have a architectural plan? >> Yeah. Do you have this plan or do you have better than this? >> No, I did give something else. This is the one what I got what I did as a

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survey when I bought it. >> Yes. >> That doesn't I gave I >> what you gave? Do you have the copy of it? No, I don't have a copy of it. >> Um, >> and you gave it to zoning office

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if I'm right. >> So, I gave it I gave it to him. >> Yeah, I'm the one who gave it to him and it was a fully clothed document with all the addition along with the application. I

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>> the architectural plans never made it though to town hall. No. >> Oh, >> because we gave the one that was given by the architecture to the city government the first day. That was uh what >> again? You gave it to whom?

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>> Uh one in uh he's in the second the ground floor here in the basement. >> You talking to the assistant. Yeah. >> Robert Viza. >> Yeah. Robert Liz. Yeah. >> Gave a copy. >> Yeah. The original copy what was given to us uh by the architecture architect.

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We gave it to him and that's when we started moving all these documents and he had few questions so we had to come by. >> Obviously he didn't get out of zoning and over to uh uh nor

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you heard the application before us in terms of the difficulty in the board acting without having the plans in front of them. It's difficult for the board to make a decision on your application when you're

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asking for multiple variances when they don't really understand the full extent of your application. Okay? So, it puts them in a difficult spot in terms of trying to decide whether your application should be approved or not. So, it's much more beneficial for the

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board to have a full set of the engineering and architectural plans. Especially if, for example, you're going to put a dry well in. They want to kind of see what that's going to look like. They want to see um for example, you're looking for um building and impervious

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coverage variances. So they the board wants to be comfortable that your your plans are going to be um appropriate to resolve any drainage issues and things of that nature and you're asking for a sideyard setback. They want to just it's

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just makes them much more comfortable if they can see a full set of plans to have in their mind exactly what you're intending to do before they can act favorably on it. Do you understand? >> Yeah, I do agree. But uh I do have a question because I did it with a whole full sight and I gave everything and

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then the document docket what I got states only the storm water needs to be taken care for. that document was not there and I was not when I gave the document without that it would have not gone anywhere. So nowhere in my I would not being a citizen and being a normal

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person lay man with no um construction knowledge I'm doing it on my own. I will not know what document made to the boardroom here or not. I don't have any clue right and in fact I was planning for flying out last week and I cancelled

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my trip for June 3rd. I understand. It looks it look it looks from the most recent letter from the engineer that he did review your storm water management plan with respect to the dry well and it seems that that that is satisfactory to

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him. >> Mhm. >> Okay. But there's other variances that you're asking for >> other than just building coverage and impervious coverage that I think the board would really benefit from seeing. >> I totally agree. I'm not I'm not at all denying on that because I'm an engineer

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on the IT side. So I I go with my same architecture diagram same way here. But my only problem is that I have given every document and if it doesn't make it here, how can I make it happen? >> It's not your fault. >> It's not your fault, somebody else's

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fault. But unfortunately sitting here >> without looping all those things, we can't do anything. So you want you can go and learn them. >> Recommendation is like you know just like the prior application like could you please submit?

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>> No if you can tell me what are the documents list you need. I can make it 15 copies when I walk in that way it'll be easy in case you need to submit it to mora first like not not here in the meeting. >> Uhhuh. So if you >> architectural plans of what you're

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doing. >> Okay. Yeah. Um >> can you write down? >> Yeah. Yeah. I have it in my mind. >> And the and the survey that you held up that didn't make it here either. >> Uh survey document. I believe someone showed up >> you have a site plan that shows the dry well.

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>> A proposed site plan that shows where the dry well is going to >> the dry the CP uh one. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I gave it and >> engineering department is show right >> I can give you this >> well I I don't necessarily so this is a

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>> that's great so where does that come from there's no there's no there's no name on that where does this come from >> um >> who prepared this >> uh this one I sent it by email >> no prepared I prepared it and I work

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with uh uh it was me Okay. >> Because the architect said it is not in her scope and she was charging with all >> and that's how I ended up doing this >> engine up through that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It went in multiple times. I had been to

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engineering department at least two maybe >> but you should put on here that you prepared it so we know. >> Okay. >> Are you an engineer? >> Uh I'm not a civil engineer. >> Okay. Because there there's there is one mistake on here about the void ratio. There should be 33% not 40.

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>> Uh this one was the 40% ratio was given by uh engineering Paul when I met him. >> So >> okay well then I will talk to Paul because that's >> sure that's the reason I made that one and in fact uh the first occurrence I made it was a bigger convert and he said

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you're overgineering it. So he was >> it is it yeah that change won't >> that change will not make the system undersized because you're you're almost you're almost double what you need here. So, but so that's fine. So, it works out in the end. That's fine.

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>> So, you need one more copy where it's stated that >> I need you to show I need you to say who's who prepared it. >> Okay. >> And even if you're not an engineer, just make sure we know so we can say who prepared it. It should be it should be dated because at le identify it. >> Yeah. You you need to have the

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traceability. Yeah, sure. I'll do that. And um so the only one thing that you guys need is the architecture diagram prepared by my architect and then copies for everybody. It is given to Nura on time and then >> copies of that >> uh copies of uh the storm water drainage

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do >> 12 copies >> and the survey >> 12 copies >> and the survey also >> um the site survey I gave 15 copies already. >> No but this doesn't have any table prepared by that's all >> that is who prepared that one? Uh it was

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uh this was done very long way back. Uh >> see, >> do you see any stamps on it? >> No name. >> Something I might be wrong. If you can just check it. >> We have the same exact same. >> We have a larger copy of that that shows the block of who prepared it.

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>> Is that is that a yes or no question? Do you have the larger copy the full copy of that? >> That is exactly what I gave to Robert Gita. But the the thought our thought was since we are scheduled for a meeting our thought was it is the copies are already made and it is being distributed

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to the board members >> but we have to make sure that it's signed and sealed. >> Yeah. It has a signature. It has a belong. >> Now, now, now you got it. >> If you could, if you could shrink, instead of cutting that document, if you

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could shrink that document >> so it's a more manageable size, >> it should be readable copies of that as well. >> It says who prepared it and what date and what what. >> So, you need the survey document copy and then architecture architect document copy and then the storm water copy. All

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this >> are all signed. >> Sure. Right. >> Now the architectural plan are you familiar with enough to explain to the board why you are doing certain things? >> Yeah. >> You won't need your architecture. >> Um in fact I help her what I need and I

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was helping her instead of Yeah, I can explain it. Not a problem. >> Okay. >> You saw the applicant before us so it was difficult to follow him. >> Yeah. Uh everybody's different. >> I'm just asking the question. Do you feel comfortable?

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>> Yeah, I'm feeling comfortable. >> Okay. >> No, we have a carry date, please. >> July 8th. >> Sure. >> You have motion, please. >> Last. >> All in favor?

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>> I sir, we will see you on July 8th at 7:30 in the evening. >> Sure. Do >> another notice. >> I'm not getting a notice. I'm >> This is your only notice. >> No, no, no. Do I need to do a adisement and then send uh >> You don't need to know. >> Oh, thank God. Okay. Sure. >> Just don't forget the date.

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>> Forget the date. >> And h uh Nora, he has to have everything into your office. How many days before the meeting? >> Typically, typically 10. >> But if you have give it to within a week. >> Yeah. I'll try to get it by Friday or

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Monday. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Application 2567 flagship 1236 Route 46 block 715 >> lot 12 zone R3 preliminary and final

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site plan with CD variants to construct a car wash. This application was carried from May 20th 2026. Madam Chair, members of the board, Justice O'Neal here on behalf of the applicant. This is a continuing

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application. >> We ran out of time last time, so >> but not today. >> Not today. No bathrooms and basements. >> No sewage. >> No attics. >> Do we have your plans? >> We have your plans.

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>> Are they fine? >> Well, you were here in what, two weeks ago? >> Yeah. >> Pretty quick turnaround. >> Very nice. Thank you very much for the accommodation. We'd like to go ahead and pick up right. >> Well, he's set up. Quick question. I guess you probably have the answer. Do you guys own the flag stops as well? Is

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that part of your brand? Oh, because I saw a flagship and a flag stop two weeks ago in Virginia. Your flagship in Virginia? >> Okay. There's a flag stop right behind Zach's piece. >> Yeah. It's not It's not the same. It's a self-service one, but I saw both.

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>> Yeah. Okay. I just I just They just like your name. I guess they kind of tried to copy. >> Anyway, >> all right. He's ready. I'm done. >> You raise your right hand, please. Would you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to do should be the truth? >> I do. >> State your name. Your last name. Joseé

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Lazo L A Z O. >> And who are you associated with? >> I am BL Companies. >> Are you engineer? >> I am the professional engineer for this project. >> And you testified two weeks ago. >> Yes, I did. >> Your credentials are still the same. >> Yes, they are. >> Your fault.

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>> All right. >> Yeah. So, my recollection is that there was some questions about drainage and connecting to the pipe on Hopkins and maybe some questions about signage. >> That's the driveway from Chick-fil-A and the distance between the entrance to the

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car wash. >> That's right. And subsequent to um the last meeting we were here, we we resubmitted plans. We added um some survey information that wasn't reflected in in the original filing. uh and and

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that helped clarify that the design that we're proposing for the storm drain outfall uh through the residential property and to that back road was feasible. And so we provided that information and we're still in the process of supplementing the survey uh

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with a bit more information just so that we have more information than less. Uh but we believe that the the design now is um is reasonable and feasible and and the engineer uh has has looked at it. So uh >> that's going to cover all of the storm

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water runoff on the property is going to go out that way. >> Uh yes. Yes. the the we what we intend to do is match the existing drainage pattern that's out there right now and not modify that too much because if you start changing drainage patterns you start um adding more runoff to a an area

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and we don't want to do that. So this matches what's out there existing and um we meet all the township uh requirements in terms of flows. There will be a new pipe going from this site out to uh side >> street.

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>> Yeah. >> And you got a new easement from the property owner to do that. >> Yes. >> And there was some discussion about other pipes that you needed to cross, >> right? And that and that's >> resolve that. >> Yes. That was part of the additional

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information. We provided some utility locating information that was not reflected on the plans. We provided that information that supports the design that we have. >> So Tom, have you got involved with that or no? >> Yes, I did. Um uh I went out to the site myself, found a considerable amount of

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piping. I spoke to engineering um and uh there Mr. Lazo also provided more information to me where these pipes are and that's actually shown on the plan now most of them. Um the one thing that we did talk about um with the T that I did talk about with the town engineer is

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that right now assuming these plans are what we're looking at there's a new inlet that's going to be proposed in the lawn area in front of 153 to help get all these pipes around what's there now.

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And the easement language is to show that the inlet and all the pipes downstream are the townships. Anything upstream of the inlet is this site's responsibility for maintenance. >> The inlet will be on this property

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outlined on the exhibit. >> No. >> Well, the the not on this exhibit, but on the u on the submitted site. >> Okay. Why don't you let him do his testimony? When we get to the drainage, we'll we'll deal. >> Could I ask one question before you get started? Sorry.

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>> Um, in our questioning, I guess this is for Mr. Johnson and Mr. Chaplan. >> They're proposing to put up a car wash >> on 46. >> Mhm. >> And they're coming to us for variances.

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>> Mhm. Now, their car wash is before an existing car wash that's down the road a little bit. Am I right? >> Yes. >> Does that enter into our thought process or questioning at all in >> the fact that there's another car wash?

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>> Yes. >> No, there's nothing to do >> I don't believe there's any ordinance that would limit the number of car washes in any particular location. >> Okay. and not not just just in thinking through it. They're asking for these variances. So, they're asking for a change in what's there already, but

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something's there already. You know what I'm saying? >> Right. We're just right down the road. So, we're they're asking us to grant this and to change variances to change ordinances,

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>> right? But down the road there's something there already >> existing >> existing. Does that enter into it or not at all? >> I don't believe that that's >> that's all I want to know. >> Yeah, there's no ordinance >> there. There I have seen ordinances I'm remembering one about gas station that you can't have one gas station within

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200 ft of another. But that's a condition of a permitted use. That condition is not in your car wash orders. >> Okay, great. >> So there's nothing that restricts. It's the only two things you can live in proximity on in New Jersey. Gas stations >> and adult bookstores. >> And what? >> Adult book stores.

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>> Adult books. Okay. >> Those are the only things. >> Not dispens. >> So you can't get gas at an adult book. >> Dispensaries. >> Adult book. >> How about liquor licenses? >> No. >> No. >> No. You can't limit You can't limit their proximity. >> Limit their location.

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>> They must not really use that one to get. They're all over the place. >> Right. schools. >> All right. Sorry to digress. I just didn't know. >> I had similar questions. >> Okay. >> Glad we

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>> Sure. So, I'm going going to finalize my uh testimony from from the last meeting. Uh wanted to reflect just on the utilities for for this site. So, we'll be connecting into existing uh sanitary sewer along that runs along 46. It's the

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same situation with water and gas. will be connecting uh to to those utilities and we're in the process of pursuing those approvals uh from from the different agencies and departments there. Um site lighting on on this project it it's all going to be LED

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fixtures. Uh they are 12 ft measured from from the ground surface to the to the top of the fixture. They they all will have full cutoffs. um that helps to prevent glare and spillage onto the property and a lighting plan was

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submitted with the with the site plans. >> Is there a time that'll be shut off? >> I believe usually typically it's 1 hour after the uh the car wash closes. So it's an 8 to 8 operation. So it be shut off around 9:00. >> And your time in the evening is 8:00

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p.m. that it will be closed. >> Uh yes. Yes. So the lighting will go off what hour after that. >> Is that on your site, Glenn? >> I not certain if it is or not. Okay. Can add a note. >> Put it in the resolution.

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>> Okay. uh I believe last time um went through through the landscaping landscaping hasn't changed as a result of the uh resubmitted site plan with the uh showing the uh the the uh storm drain pipe um connection.

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>> So with respect to the landscaping, I know Mr. Lmanowitz had some questions about trees. >> Yes. Yes. So we we will propose to remove those trees. Uh there's a couple of trees on the eastern property lines that are they're they're very close to

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the extents of the proposed curb and gutter and pavement and it be best practices just to remove them because they probably will get um it will be subjected to traffic uh construction traffic. So we'll we'll pursue a tree permit um for

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>> Okay. So you're going to you're going to ask for a tree removal permit. >> Yes. Correct. How about the trees along the back property on? >> So those the there's uh there's a few trees back here that we will save them. We will preserve them by adjusting the

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grading and trying to maintain that. >> And you you mixed up the evergreens back there instead of one I think you had originally just variety on. >> Yes, there are >> and you mixed them up now. >> Yes, they're they're proposed arbor varieties and and we'll we'll work.

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>> I thought you changed it. No. >> Uh, no. No. There's They're still >> They're still uh >> green arborites, >> aren't they? >> Uh, they're black arborites, >> but we can we can adjust the specy. It's necessary working with the professionals.

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>> Yeah. Why don't you do subject to the review of the right town for >> the town? We'll do that. >> Okay. And and then signage. um uh our our planner John will go through the signage and and explain that a little

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bit better. Um in terms of what we're proposing and and type of relief that we're pursuing um seeking for >> keeping plan that I review talks about 8 foot high evergreen trees with various varieties

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and that came from a plan that was dated May 4. There there's a mix of eastern red cedars, >> black arbor varieties, American holl. >> That's different varieties, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. It's not just a bunch of

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>> No, it's not just one type of tree of evergreen. It's different varieties. The latest plan that you submitted is dated what? >> Should be dated uh May 26. >> And that got to

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>> that's one of the plans for that just came in day or two ago. >> Yeah, >> that is correct. Okay, I'll open it up to any questions. >> So, I'm sorry. >> I got the I I I got the easement. So, I

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have some questions about the easement. >> Sure. >> So, whose responsibility is it going to be to maintain that pipe from your client's property line to that inlet? debate on the the uh market. >> So I I didn't see that clearly laid out

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in the easement that was submitted. >> Look, I'll I'll double check that. I might have to change it. >> Right. So I I think that >> it should clearly make clear that the responsibility to maintain that pipe rests with your client.

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>> I'll double check. it's damaging any road. >> And uh while we're talking about it, Tom, are you saying we need to turn over a portion of that pipe to the township that's on this property? >> No. No. When you leave the back corner of this property, the pipe goes through

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153 Hawkins is for the for the car wash, >> right? >> In the plan, there's an inlet behind the curb right on the rightway line. >> Okay. That inlet will be the towns as far as maintenance goes.

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>> And anything downstream will be the towns because that's in the rightway. And there's a there's a there's a there's a collection system behind the curb there, but probably dates back to when they first installed the curb. It created a low spot behind the curb because that's where the grading was. So

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that's >> Yeah, they they had no record of this at all. It was >> completely unknown to them. So that's why we're replacing everything. >> Anything upstream of the inlet is your client and the inlet and downstream is

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>> inlet inlet and everything in the easement >> in the easement part. >> The inlet >> and downstream is the town. >> I understand. >> Upstream of the inlet is the car wash, >> right? >> Just make sure that's clearly spelled out.

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>> Well, the inlet's definitely not, >> right? Yes. So yes, make sure that >> and I have a and then make sure it's just executed by all the parties. >> The one I have is only executed by the people who own >> the fully executed. I'll have that

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tomorrow. >> Yeah. >> So I can represent you fully. There's no going to give you aation again and I would just make sure that you you tighten up that language. There any questions from the board on the testimony that has been given this

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evening? >> Are you going to have your architect? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> As far as the other engineering comments, are there any objections to there's a lot of cleanup items here. >> Any questions? >> We won't be able to comply with them.

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>> Did you Did you get Tom? Did you get an answer to that? Yeah, they just said they'll they'll comply with the res with the engineering comments. Okay. >> Any questions from the audience? >> The uh driveway like you know from is it

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like this person's testimony or should we rely on >> ask question and they'll tell you >> from uh >> Chick-fil-A >> Chick-fil-A to uh the car wash and all the >> I Yeah, that was raised that was raised at the last meeting. So,

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>> I'm sure you have testimony or Mr. Mcdana does. >> You're talking about the proximity of the Chick-fil-A driveway to the car wash driveway. Can you speak to that proximity? >> Uh, we we have our traffic engineer here. Can you speak to that?

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>> Great. >> I'm not sure if the question is for you or somebody else. Sure. >> But is there any limit like you know I can't have my like you know um this kind of SUV or whatever like is there any limit >> type of vehicle that >> type of vehicle?

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>> So so the uh the circulation uh accommodates a Ford F250. That's that's a pretty big truck and part there's a plan in the site plan set that shows the circulation of the vehicle through the site. also includes a uh circulation for

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for trash trucks and for a a fire engine. So that that is a plan that's included in the set. >> Okay. >> And and it works. We we so you can see there's there's ample space there to maneuver. >> And on the left side right there that's

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just drawn the the parking lot is drawn that way with striping. >> Yeah. So the the intent there is if you're a customer, you're you're turning into the northern portion of the building. That's that's the wet tunnel. Uh the stripe portion there is in case

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you need to bail out. >> Well, right. If the if it breaks down, then the traffic has to come out that way. >> That's right. That's right. >> To um escape. >> Exactly. And escape lane is what we usually bail out in case something happens. >> Yeah. I've had that happen with car wash horses.

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>> Any questions from the board? >> Mr. Plazo, you're you're proposing a non-standard curbing for the building. Could you go over that, please? >> Yes, we uh the curbing that we propose is a road concrete curb. Um it and the intent for that is because we want to

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avoid uh damages to to tires. As we know, customers will will go in there. There's different levels of of skill as you maneuver through the site. So this this operationally helps prevent uh rims from being scratched and so forth. So uh

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we believe that a a concrete uh road curb is an appropriate uh use for the site. >> What's at Chick-fil-A? >> You know what's at Chick-fil-A? >> I I do not. >> They've seen me drive. >> Do you have any issues with that, Tom?

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>> It's concrete. When I first saw it, I I thought it was the asphalt curb, which I I would have had an issue with because from a maintenance standpoint, that stuff just doesn't last. >> Uh but if it's a concrete curb, I I don't I really don't see an issue with it. >> Is that a variance from the town design

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standards? >> It's it's a waiver. >> It's a waiver. >> Any other questions from the board? >> There any questions from the audience at the testimony given this evening by this gentleman? >> Mr. Let's go into traffic broken down.

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>> Thank you, sir. >> Raise your right hand, please. Do you swear or refer that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth, and not the >> I do. >> State your name. Spell your last name, please. >> David Shropshshire. S R O P. S H I R E. And who are you affiliated with? >> Shire Associates.

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>> And you're a traffic engineer. >> Yes. >> Just go through your qualifications. >> A professional engineer, professional planner in the state of New Jersey. Both license are up to date and enforced. >> Uh I've testified before this board and over 200 throughout the state of New Jersey with regard to traffic

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engineering and transportation planning. Uh and our company put the traffic study together. Uh Nathan Mosley was here earlier the earlier hearing two weeks ago. His wife's birthday was today. So I I pitch in. What a guy.

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>> You're qualified. Mr. Take a seat. >> Unless you want to stand. >> I think it's if we're talking about the uh the distance I can probably >> the distance between the marked, >> right? A1 shows the Chick-fil-A

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driveway. And I think the question is what's the separation between the driveways? >> Yes. >> Uh NJ DOT has this under the jurisdiction of NJ DOT. They've got a requirement that uh is 12 ft from the property line as a minimum or 24 ft

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combined between the edge of the curb ADI on both sides. So when we get to DOT, which we're we need to process that application with them, uh that will either be 24 ft between here uh one way or another. I'm not sure what that measurement is today because we haven't

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gone to the application, but that is the minimum that NJ DOT would require without a waiver. >> And that's from what point to what point would >> end of the radi one curb but to the other. And in effect, the 12T is usually the property

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line 12 ft over, but you can get cooperation with the adjoining property owners for that 24T distance. >> Okay. to a whole DOT typically won't vary to that. Although, you know, in looking at the

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existing condition out there, we're going to be improving it because there's some substandard driveways uh with two driveways and we'll be basically eliminating movements and improving it. >> You see, >> you think you're going to have to slide

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that driveway a little west >> when we get into that detail with DOT. It may slide a little bit west >> cuz I'm trying to figure out how we >> don't have you back here for amended plans and stuff.

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>> Uh conditioned upon NJ DOT approval. I mean it it shouldn't be a substantial movement in terms of the driveway location. >> You expect a substantial movement in that drive? >> No, I I said I it should not be a substantial >> substantial couple yards. Well, I would

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say substantial would be more than 12 feet in terms of the >> criteria. >> Mr. Shaw, you said that the tangent between the two curb radi got to be 12 actually property line >> it's typically 12 ft from the property

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line over or 24 ft between the radi. >> Okay. Because unfortunately the site plan doesn't show the property line which is which was an issue. Um but right now there's a 15t radius. So that means that the rate that the that the and and the radius looks like it ends

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very close to the property line. >> Yeah. Again, when we go through this with NJ dot, it could be either uh a waiver for the 12 ft. If we've got more room on the Chick-fil-A side to get that 24T spacing between the radi

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shop, if they end up moving this, how's that going to affect the traffic flow on the side? I mean, if it's not a substantial movement, I don't think there'll be any impact to the on-site circulation, >> but it'll just be the traffic coming out

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of Chick-fil-A and your traffic going into your site and the cars being close >> bumper cars. >> Yeah. Obviously 24 ft is not a great distance, but that's a standard with NJ dot. and

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>> it's a standard but you know what's standard and you know I know that's the law but what is realistic in people driving is what is scary about it >> and again with a lot of we've done hundreds of applications with NJOT

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>> I understand >> and in effect uh the this is not a condition that's unusual whatsoever and I think the thing that really is compelling to me is cleaning up what's out there today in terms of those two driveways being substandard. Now we can have

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>> NJ do DOT permitted designed appropriately with appropriate radiating their criteria. >> Yeah. I think the only difference with what's there now and what's going to be there is the amount of traffic that's going in there now compared to what you're going to have. Correct. It's going to be a big difference. So yeah,

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but if it's a regulation is the standard is 24 foot. There's nothing changing. We're not changing that. >> Um that standard >> I'm sorry. >> Do you know how that standard is established? >> Uh NJ dot standard. They establish that they typically have safety concerns with

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regard to separation of driveways. So that's into their criteria, their design criteria in terms this is in the state access code. So >> which was implemented back in '92. >> Yes. So DOT standard is 24 ft between

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the two radi. >> Correct. So, if you get to that application and it's less than 24 ft between those two radi, the DOT is going to make you move that >> driveway entrance to the west in order to accommodate that 24 ft.

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>> That's correct. >> It seems unlikely that you're going to hit 12 ft on your side. >> Correct. Based on what's on there now, and the only thing that I don't have is what the measurement is to the Chick-fil-A radi >> in terms of that. If there's more than 12 ft there today, then there's some

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accommodation that can be made between the property owners. >> So, if the resolution reads that the site plan may be amended to accommodate the DOT requirements for separation of separation, then you wouldn't necessarily have to come back here for an amendment.

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>> And that's not an unusual standard, >> right? So then and again during the during the compliance review if if you know the DOT permit is like okay here's our permit here's the plan the permit's based upon and the driveways in the middle of the property now they'll be

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back >> right hopefully that's not going to be the case but what I'm saying is it'll be if it's two or three feet at that point but it's I'm going to be able to see it again >> yeah and and then you'll if it's if it's reasonable and not then you'll consider

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it likely to be just field change. >> Correct. >> Because we will say something in the resolution that'll remind us that this was an issue, >> right? >> It might come up. >> Yes, >> we will agree that I I guess I have one more question. So, when you're exiting there, right, exiting either of the bay,

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all three of the bays, right? So, if you're going to go into the detail bay from the wash bay, how do you get to there? >> You go back around the front of the building and then back in, >> correct? >> Okay. And then you come back out. So, you're going to have everybody's coming out the same way. >> Correct. >> Okay. I I I was just kind of thinking

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maybe if you just had everybody exit to the far to the west that would clear up one of those problems. But >> I'm just trying to figure out how they're getting to the detail bay rather than >> So, one in one out, right? >> No, they're all three come out the same end. >> No, they're the same. >> So, but you just after you get out of the car wash, you go down, you go all

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the way around to the detail bay. >> There's no way to design that that you just go right into the detail bay and come out the other side. >> Correct. Not all the cars from uh car wash. >> I know. They don't all go. No, I know. I know. >> And one other thing, obviously, you've probably all been in car washes.

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>> Car washes meter the traffic coming out. So, it's not like it's creating a congestion situation where there's a lot of cars competing for the same space. >> Right. Right. >> No, no. I'm just I'm just it just in my head I'm going through it saying, well, if you're going to go to the detail bay, why wouldn't you come out of the car wash bay and turn right into the detail

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bay and then come out the other side? But >> that's just the design of the >> Am I allowed to speak? >> Oh, I just wanted to answer that. >> Sorry. >> You understand that you're still under oath from the last time, correct? Identify yourself for the record.

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>> Judy Knwood with Spotless Brands. Last name is KOP. >> Um, I just wanted to note a couple of things from an operational perspective that hopefully gives you a better comfort level. Um, as a reminder, when cars are going, uh, first of all, so going from the wet tunnel into the dry belts, we prefer to do a loop around the

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building because it gives us the ability to stack. >> Okay. >> Um, otherwise the immediate turnaround doesn't really give us that ability. >> That's really that really answers the entire thing for me. >> Yeah. Okay, good. >> Yeah. No, that I didn't think of that. And that's makes perfect sense.

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>> We'd have cars stacked out. >> Bingo. >> Sitting in here and listening to >> Thank you. question. Come back. >> He didn't get to sit down long enough. I'm sorry. >> We knew you had the >> You could have just said, "Hey, Captain Obvious." And that would have been

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>> And it was It had to do with that stat. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you're >> Everything's metered. You said on the site. What's the capacity on the site? Again, we talked about this a little bit. >> Yeah, we did. is very concerned about people backing off Route 47 >> and DOT will be really concerned about

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that also because that's that becomes their problem. Uh 25 cars can stack until about this point. Uh and that's with the three lanes getting into the tunnel. That doesn't include actually what's in the tunnel. So uh the studies

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have shown uh of of these spotless car wash. there was more studies ever done. Uh, and 10 to 16 is the the typical during the peak times. So, 25 is more than accommodating. And I'm sure again, if you have the same experience that I

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do, when you get to 25, you're going someplace else. >> Well, I live in the area and that other car wash never has cars >> at the road. They they might back up, but there's never where it's backed up on Route 46. Ever. The last last 30

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years never see >> 31 is on route 10. >> Yeah. The new one. >> The one on the hill. >> It's closed. >> It's closed now. But somebody but another one bought it. >> Yeah. Open. I went to >> Spark. No closed. I think Sparkle bought

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it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Sir, continue. >> I have no further questions. >> Any other question? Any questions from our board? >> No. >> Answer. questions from the public of the of the testimony given by this gentleman

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this evening. >> Thank you, Mr. O'Neal. >> Next, >> raise your right hand, please. You swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth shall be the truth, the whole truth about the public. >> Please state your name, spell your last name, and tell us your affiliation. My

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name is Derek E. Can you speak up please? >> Senior project manager with DL companies >> um and um a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey along with seven

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other states have Thank you. >> Um >> sorry for that question. >> Just just a question before we start. The prior submission included sheets

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A101 and 2011. The last submission only had sheet A101. Are we still using A201 or is that now been eliminated from the application? >> We are um still using it. We only revised the elevation >> in the future. Submit them together.

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Okay. >> Because we can't be expected to pull your other plans apart and put these plans back together again. That's not what we we can do because then we're taking the position of the applicant in preparing their application documents. So when you submit, submit whole sets.

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Understood. So we can start with um the sheet ex 5A which shows the uh proposed floor plan of the car wash which um is really dominated by the wash tunnel along with the two dry detail belts that

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we've been talking about in the site circulation. And the remainder of the building program is basically support spaces for those operational needs. It's um it's a waiting area to wait while your car is getting go through the detail belts because you get out and

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staff clean your car as well as a series of laundry and equipment rooms to power the wash tunnel and a small breakroom for the staff along with um an office as well. In this plan, we have a mezzanine for additional car wash equipment,

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trying to keep the footprint as compact as possible on the site to allow for better circulation. And this design, and I'm going to go to the proposed elevations, this design, >> we need a date on that. Those maps that you described,

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>> um the proposed four plans are dated um October 10th, 2025. And what sheet number is that? >> EX-5A. >> EX5A.

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>> Yep. Exhibit 5A. That stands for >> Yeah. >> Exhibit 5. Yeah. >> Yeah. Mr. Kyle, was that colorized version that submitted with the application?

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>> This sheet A201 was submitted the application. This is the proposed um elevations of the building. Um this is dated um May 22nd, 2026.

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This shows the um the proposed four elevations of the new car wash building. This is the um this the proposed building is the latest state of the art flagship car wash um prototype design.

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The building um is consists of three different forms of and types of metal paneling that are um alternated to create to break up the massing of the car wash along with um >> Can you speak up please?

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>> Sorry. It has three different kinds of metal paneling, corrugated, reflective, and smooth that are um alternated to break up the massing of the car wash to try and bring it down to more of a pedestrian human scale. We also incorporate a lot of windows and um

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transparency in our garage doors to try and create a connection between the interior and exterior of the site and really highlight the work that's going on. Overall, the building is really has um we aim for a very clean aesthetic,

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much like you want your car when you leave. Can >> I jump you ahead a little bit? >> Yes. >> Talk a little bit about the signage today. >> Yes. Um so there are two proposed signs on the car wash. There's one that reads car wash here on the south elevation.

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And then there's a another sign that says flagship car wash that is on this feature element of the building. It's a bin that um we recently revised to meet the engineer's comment that it was right up against the height limit. So we've lowered it 6 in to stay within the 35 ft

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height limit measured from the surrounding grade. >> That's decorative. >> Yes. Will you see that coming up Route 46? >> Yes. >> Because I remember was it Chick-fil-A or somebody had to come back for signage. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because no one could see it,

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>> right? >> Mhm. >> I'm just saying. I remember that. >> Yeah. So did I. >> See these. >> Mhm. And we also have some signage on the um the red awnings around the building

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saying where which tunnels are entry and exit. And um all of the signage is really geared towards helping customers navigate the site in an efficient manner and see it an appropriate distance to enter the site and then navigate where

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they need to once they're on the site. >> I'm going to call them directional site. >> Yes. >> Direction. >> Yeah. >> How many of those do you have? Um, >> so >> um there are additional directional signs on the site I believe we are

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proposing. So I'm going to pull up um exhibit exhibit 3B which is our signage pans plan that were included in the package. Um, and we're going to start on actually

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I'm sorry. Um, exhibit 3A is where we'll start. Um, and so in the upper left of the sheet we have the um the larger proposed >> exhibit >> exhibit 3A. >> So those were all submitted. >> Yes.

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>> But not with those page numbers. >> These these page numbers are just for the exhibits. These are part of the site plan applications. >> Okay. But can you reference this? If these sheets are in the package except for the page number, why don't we use the ones that are in the package and

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those page numbers so everybody can follow along. >> There's a lot more information in the assigned package that's I need to mark these as >> well. This is page 10. This is page 10 of the 27.

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>> Page 10. So P. So let's exhibit 3A which you have on the board is how did that correspond with the package? >> That's 10 of 27. >> So that in the package is identified as C1.103.

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>> Is that have I got that right? >> Can you confirm that? >> Yeah. C11037 sheets with >> one sheet in the package. >> That's it >> with four panels on the sheet. >> C1103

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>> starts on the page uh sheet C1.1037. Yeah, we have we have >> we have it that whole thing, but it just doesn't match the number. >> Just doesn't match the number. So So exhibit >> 5 >> ex-3A is the colorized version of C1.103.

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>> That is correct. >> You need to mark you need to mark that. >> I think we're going to jump around a little bit. Um, so >> we have 3A, 3B that we're going to talk

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about >> and then um testimony. >> I can give it. >> Yeah, I can give it. >> Okay. >> John, John, you're gonna >> address.

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>> All right. >> Then I guess um >> I have no further questions. >> Great. >> Okay. >> Would you go back to the elevation where I guess had three sides of the building? I think it was more than Okay,

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it's all four sides. Okay. That that find that in the package. >> Let's find that in the package. >> Good job. >> Which one is that in the package that we have? >> Could you guide us? Which one is it in the package?

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>> Jose, do you have this? I I believe it's A201. >> It was resubmitted. >> We have se you know which one that is. elevation, >> the elevation, the latest elevation at that point.

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>> Um, and what we resubmitted, um, we we had resubmitted 2011, I believe. Originally submitted an A101. >> It might have been at the very end. Then >> what is the date on that plan? >> May 22nd. Did you provide?

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>> We did. >> Did you provide you put it in the whole packet or did you provide >> um >> do we mark that Joe or is that an exhibitor? >> So why don't you mark that? >> So it does not appear that A201 is in

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the package. So we're going to mark that >> X2. >> A1. I think >> I had A1. >> Oh, >> you did. Okay. So that's >> dated the 22nd. >> Yes. >> All right. Now let's go from top to

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bottom. The top elevation is what? It's the south elevation >> which is what does it show? >> It shows the um the side of the building that um and the the signage that'll be

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visible from Route 426. >> Route 46, I'm sorry. And um >> basically this is the side of the building that doesn't have any um vehicles entering it. It is there's

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windows that let you look into space is 46 and the material on that >> um there are three different kinds of um metal paneling. This is a corrugated metal paneling is the sort of the gray color. The sort of the lighter gray

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color is a reflective metal paneling and then the white is a smooth metal panel and they step in and out from each other in addition to just being different materials. >> Okay. And the only bright colors are the sign.

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>> There is an awning here in red that projects uh 2 feet off the face of the building. >> And then there that wing sign or how you describe >> that we call it a fin. And it is um it is made out of that smooth white metal

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paneling and then has the sign a fixed to it. >> It's on page 10 as well. >> I think this is part of the page 10. >> Yeah, it's on page 10 as well. I just wanted now the rest of the elevations as you go down that

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>> sheet are the same materials. >> Yes. >> The lighter colors reflect the whitish >> um so this is that white um metal

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paneling. This lighter gray is a reflective metallic sort of silver metal paneling >> has a door >> um that has the door the wet tunnel door in it. We use this as sort of a um a wayfinding >> finish for where the wash tunnel is.

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>> And you're not really going to see that from Iowa. >> No, it's it's fairly set. >> The bottom is the same thing. That's an exit doors. You're not really going to see that from the island. Yes, that is >> might cross your toilet, >> but it's not it's not going to be right up in front of you.

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>> And the other one is the >> Yes. >> back. Which one faces the back? >> Yeah. So, the north the north elevation faces the back. Is that all one solid type of material? Is that or is that reflective or nonreflective? It has the corrugated

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um metal paneling and then we have a couple bands of reflective metal paneling to break up the volume. >> So when you say reflective and I this might be nitpicky and I apologize for but it actually reflects the light off

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of it. Would it be like like the neighbors behind it? Will it be of any kind of nuisance to them in my question? >> It's like a metallic silver. It's not a mirror finish. >> Okay. All right. All right. Just >> when you talk about corrugated, you talk

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like an old corrugated metal roof. >> Um, it's a it's a bent panel, so it's sort of more angular. It's um >> decorative. >> It's decorative. Here, I can um So, this would be the view from um

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looking along the back lot line where the pay stations are. >> Yeah. And you can see so the the reflective the metallic metal I should say the corugated metal which is a it's really a

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it's sort of a rectal linear corrugation so it's not >> I think I excuse me I think the concern was is it going to be reflective into the window that's my question >> great Okay, >> I have no more questions.

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>> Any questions of the board? >> There's a few more. I'm I'm not sure we're going to call them, but there's two signs on the dumpster >> on the dumpster enclosure. And the way the plans are, the detail shows that there's two sizes available, but doesn't

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say which size you're using. And since there's a variance for I guess we'll call those wall signs because they're on the door of the trash enclosure, what size are you proposing? Just want to ask you, >> do we need signs? >> I was going to say signs. >> Any sign.

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>> Do you need any signs on the >> dumpster? It's >> on the dumpsters. >> Why do you need signs on the dumpster? >> That's We're going to eliminate dumpster signs. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, we can eliminate them. >> Thank you. Eliminate signs on the dumpster, please. >> Thank you.

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>> Any other questions from the board? >> Any questions from the audience of the testimony given by this gentleman this evening? I see none. Mr. O'Neal. >> Mr. McD. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you very >> Hello, Mr. McDonald.

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>> Hello, Madam Chair. >> So, I affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. >> Yes, I do. >> The qualifications changed since the last time you testified here? >> Uh, not in the last two weeks. No. >> And you're still accepted. >> Is it precise?

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>> I'm sorry. >> Is it precise? >> Is this precise? Is it precise? >> Oh, concise. Maybe. Maybe that's concise. >> You've examined the uh application is here before the board. >> Yes. >> Had an opportunity to review the local plans.

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>> Yes, I have. >> The local ordinances and the master plan, I should say. >> Yes, indeed. >> Wonder if you can give us your findings comparing this application to those documents and standards as well as neighborhood. >> Sure thing. We're we're here in front of the zoning board for somewhat of a

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technicality. Uh you have a car wash is a conditional use here um in your B2 highway development district. It's the only D relief that the applicant is seeking. Um the deviation is that we have three bays here where two are the

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maximum allowed. Um as you've heard through the testimony operationally, site, architecturally. There's actually two tunnels here. You've got the wet and the dry. The dry tunnel happens to have two lanes that go through it. So that's where we run into this technicality of three versus two.

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But I I think suffice it to say the degree of departure from the zone scheme is not uh substantial here. And we'll get into the the core proofs as as we go forward. But I think you have a good body of evidence from a practical standpoint as to any of the concerns

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with the legislative intent to restrict two bays here. traffic, queuing, overdevelopment, and the like have easily been addressed by the testimony before me. That's the only real Dvariance that the board is going to have to grapple with here. It's not a

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use variance. The use is allowed in the zone. Um I think Commissioner Joskowitz had a good question about if there's one already there, uh why not, uh have a have a second one? And um or why could you have a second one? And that's a much

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older facility. This is the new modern flex type facility, express car wash, and I think it benefits the citizens of Paripony uh with again a more modern and efficient uh facility and and I think everybody wins in that regard. There's a

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bucket of sea relief uh which we'll go through and the sign package which I think has been vetted. I can go back through that again, but the overall package here is tasteful and integrates uh very well with the overall architectural theme here. I'm going to give you just a couple of place mats

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like I usually do. Um just to show how >> footage >> this site is going to continue the nice positive transformation of the area from the the Chick-fil-A which we did a couple years ago um and and the rest of the 46 courts. >> I want you to know Mr. Mcdana. I have

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placemats that I use of your pictures. Thank you. >> Can you bring them laminated from the office? >> I was gonna say that, >> you know. Can you get them? >> Just start putting my picture on. >> We wouldn't keep those. Sorry, John. >> A5.

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>> A5. For the record, I think it's >> you have a five. >> There you go. >> That was So the the point of A5 and the the four photographs that you'll see here now these were actually taken back in

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October when we were uh first here or when we originally filed the application and by the way we've given a report as well that I know is part of the record. So this is really just a a summary of that report. But again we're on the Route 46 corridor which is undergoing a

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nice positive transformation. And you can see the Chick-fil-A right next door to the subject site. And that site was transformed with positive redevelopment. A very similar pattern that you see on the site now with these older non-residential buildings that have

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outlived their useful life and are essentially calling out for redevelopment, which is exactly what our applicator is doing here. Following the theme of what we saw over at Chick-fil-A, you could see the nice clean look and how it's able to accommodate the uh the cap the capacity

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of the demand on the site. That theme is going to carry forth here. The nice buffering that you see behind the Chick-fil-A is going to carry over onto this site as well. And that nice green belt or that green band that you see along the Chick-fil-A carries onto this

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side as well. Overall, a nice clean, wellorganized, polished, fresh new image for this site, which again will continue that positive uh transformation. We know there's transformation happening on the other side uh of the street as well. A lot more evolved since what you see in

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in these photographs here. >> Can I ask you a question? >> Yes. >> In the front of this property, there's a sidewalk like Chick-fil-A has along the highway. Uh yes. Is it is a sidewalk proposed here?

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>> Uh yeah. >> Yeah. I don't think the applicant has asked for any relief in that regard. There is sidewalk proposed along the front. >> Sure is. Okay. >> So that's another continuation that you're going to get here. So there's going to be a nice companion to the

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Chick-fil-A stand. >> Um okay. So frame number two shows show what's going on on the other side and we know how that has evolved as well. Frame number three is looking at 46 eastbound I'll say from here and then

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finally frame number four gives a sense of the buffering the homes behind that we're going to tie into with this uh with this drainage plan and we're going to enhance that buffering uh the width of the buffer doesn't comply but that's going to be made up for I'll say the

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vertical buffering that's going to come in place with this nice string of evergreens um in terms of the D3 relief Here again, it's just for that third bay where we have this double wide tunnel that triggers the relief. In terms of the sea

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relief, the buffer in the back is supposed to be 40 ft. It's proposed to be 22.7 ft, which is actually an improvement over the existing condition and also continuing that same theme that you have with the Chick-fil-A next door.

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Good. Likewise, C relief for the rear yard setback. 24.7 is what's proposed. 40 ft again is required. Same rationale there. Continuing what's already been vetted as good from the board standpoint carrying over to this site as well. Then

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on the front, the sea relief for the green space along Route 46. 25 ft of green band is required. 7.9 is proposed which again is consistent with what we saw over at the the Chick-fil-A. Um there's Ca relief for the accessory

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structure setback and many of these I think were called out in both Mr. Lmanowitz's latest report, Mr. Chadwicks as well. Um we've got those accessory structure uh canopies over the pay stations, one of which is within 4 ft of the building uh where 6 ft is the

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minimum that's required. Absolutely no interference with the flow of the site or the operation of the building. With that relief, it's a customer convenience, weather protection, shade on a hot, bright day as one works their way through the pay station.

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There's sea relief for the parking, which you just heard through Mr. Sharpshshire's testimony. 44 required here. 10 are what's provided. And again, that relates to the employee spaces off to the side, not not counting all of the

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vacuum spaces. Um, I had in my notes C relief for EV make ready, which I was just told has gone away. And then lastly, the relief for the signs. We have a freestanding sign in the front, which is shown in the lower leftand

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corner of exhibit 3A, which has already been introduced. uh 64.3 square ft is what's proposed, 60 is the maximum that's allowed. That also includes the poll. So the actual sign panel um is

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well below that, but the pole accounts for uh what gets us to that 64.3 where 60 is the maximum allowed. I think that's um dimminimous and not really perceivable as a non-conformance in the public eye. Then there's a bucket of relief related

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to the wall signs. Um we have those five wall signs as you just heard through the architectural testimony. On the fin you've got the flagship brand and then uh on the front of the building facing Route 46. You've got the word car wash with the checkered flag and then those

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three signs which are over the the tunnel entrance points which are really moreformational than anything else. >> Mr. McDonald, just interrupt you for a second. What is the dimension of the sign itself excluding the pole on the pilot? >> See if I have that for you.

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>> It's less than >> it's three. It's 34.5 square ft. 34.5 square ft, >> which would be conforming if you just counted the sign itself as opposed to the pole and the sign. >> That's correct.

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>> I told you the pole was included in the face of the sign. I don't know. >> You were around here for quite a while. I never ever >> I I believe that's in the ordinances. Any any support structure counts towards the area. >> We've had we've had it do that.

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>> I'm pretty sure >> before. >> It's just never been this traumatic. >> You never seen this. It's usually a sign >> then you don't notice in this type of a design. Suddenly now you're seeing >> it's a little bit of a ridiculous reform.

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>> That's the nature of the relief that the applicant is seeking. >> Okay. >> The wall sign height and this is for the flagship sign that's going to be on the fin uh rises up to 6.7 ft vertical where

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5t is the maximum allowed. So again there's a lot of negative space here. So, it's I don't think it's going to stand out as an excessive sign. And it really relates to that checkered flag that that carries to the top. The height of that fin is going to be

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33.5 ft above grade level where 25 ft is the maximum that's allowed. Again, it nicely integrates within the overall fin and architectural framework. I don't think it's going to stand out as uh being excessively high, especially being that the building itself does comply.

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Um, I just ran through the number of wall signs. The wall sign location, um, is not only on the front, which is where it's allowed, but on the sides as well, where you have theformational signs related to the tunnel entrances and exits. >> That's to assist people in knowing where

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to go. >> Wayfinding. Yes, >> that's important because I >> again bring up Chick-fil-A coming back to the board because no one could see him. >> All the interest of safety. >> Yes. because I would even fly right by it and say, "Oh, I passed it." You know,

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and that turn around and come back on. >> Clear and safe sight identification without way any negative detriment here. Um, lastly, we've got directional signs. You you saw them again in the interest of safety here. Four square ft is the maximum that's allowed. This panel here

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is 6 square ft. So, four square ft is relatively small. The applicant is asking for 6.7 which would be slightly larger than what you see on on that board on the easel there. So 6.7 for the directional signs where four is the

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maximum that's allowed and then the location. Some of these signs uh do go into that 40ft buffer but so does the parking so does the circulation and the same rationale following what we did over at Chick-fil-A. Um in terms of the planning justifications here, all relief

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would be justified under that uh flexible C balancing test. But for the D3, which we look at the legislative intent, and I gave that to you, uh the use per se is not an issue here. The legislative intent being to prevent overdevelopment, excessive traffic, um

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excessive queuing and the like. And I think you have a good body of evidence to support that that relief can be granted without substantial detriment to the public or impairment to the legislative intent. On the positive side here, I think the board can move on four purposes of zoning at NJSA4

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55D2 including purpose A, the project promoting the general welfare because it's going to deliver a service use that serves the motoring public. It's consistent with the zone intent. The use provides car cleaning services for improved visibility, safety, comfort,

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and prolonged car life. Purpose G, the project promotes the planning goal for variety of uses and appropriate locations. Site is located on a main roadway lined with compatible uses. Purpose I, the project will promote a desirable visual environment. It's going

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to renovate an older site that could use a nice shot in the arm. It's going to give it a fresh look. Um, it's an active use, a fresh new image, a neat, clean, attractive building, site organization, landscaping, and site improvements. And then finally here, we're looking to

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advance the planning goal uh purpose M for efficient use of land because this is going to put underutilized, unproductive land back into functional use. Counterbalancing that with the negative criteria again falling back on all the testimony all the exhibits I

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believe that the record supports that relief can be granted here without any substantially adverse impacts to the public or business. >> Thank you. >> End of testimony. >> I have no further questions from the >> board have any questions of Mr. Mcdana's testimony this evening?

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>> Anyone in the audience have any questions of Mr. Mcdana's testimony? Would one of my board members recommend approval? >> I'm sorry. >> Any comments? >> He might want to wrap up. >> Mr. O'Neal,

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>> I'll save any comments for after if the public comments. >> Any comments from the public? >> I see none. >> I'll thank the board. Just remind you from some of the testimony the first time. It's going to be a very well controlled site, so you're not going to have a lot of loud music or anything

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like that coming from here. So, we think it's going to be a good addition to the neighborhood. Certainly a big upgrade. I think the board is definitely >> Before you make a motion, I think you ought to go over what you agreed to that will involve the resolution.

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>> Well, I'm going to revise certain elements of the easement that were provided today uh to incorporate changes discussed by us here tonight. >> Okay. for professional >> submit. You're going to submit the

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architectural plan that shows the colors of the building as proposed as described by the architect. >> That's the May 22nd. Yeah, we're sticking to the colors of material.

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>> Okay. >> Colors of material. >> The out the lighting of the >> uh the property is going to be shut off one hour after business clos. >> Yes, we'll add that note to the plans. >> Okay.

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>> Does that include all the signage? >> The limits are showing. I don't think >> we typically leave the sides on overnight and some minimum level of security ways just in case somebody does happen on the property, >> but we can we can work with >> well security lighting is you know

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that's understood >> but your your poll sign what do you intend to do with that? >> We typically leave them on but if it's a requirement of the board we'll turn it off. I think

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>> I don't see a need for it to be on. >> Now, you may ask the board to can we dim it or something like that, but I I think that's like >> or even shut it off 2 hours after. So, if you shut at 8, if you close at 8 and it shuts at 10:00,

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>> you hit most of your traffic and we're done. >> Reasonable. >> Okay. 10:00 >> or the motion sensor if if there >> there's going to be motion there non-stop. Yeah. >> So 10 if they agree to 10:00, which you did, that sounds it. >> The the lights that will be out are all

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the signs and everything, but around the building itself, will that be lit up? >> Those are the security lights for >> security building. I'm sorry. Um, which >> there lights in the parking lot? >> I I'm not talking about lights in the parking

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lot. I'm talking about lights on the building for security purposes because you don't want a building and parking lot totally black when the lights go out. You want something lit there to secure the building itself. Just the building.

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>> Yeah, those can stay on. >> And those security lights, >> right? Security. >> Thank you. >> So, lights off at 10 p.m. except security. >> Yes. Yes. >> Great. Okay. And that includes the the the lights in the parking lot. >> All the lights, >> right? >> Yes. >> Great.

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>> Okay. Very good. >> What about the landscaping? >> We left that up to Mr. Township forest. >> Okay. Follow his reaction. >> There's you already changed it to BA basically address my recommendation earlier. I also put in the report dated

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May 19th the consideration of a solid fence along the rear of the property which is Chick-fil-A has a solid fence. >> Yeah, that I >> I Yeah, I believe that's already shown in the plan.

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>> I couldn't tell if it was there or not. >> Is it going to be the same an extension of theirs? The same >> I believe Mr. testified to that last meeting. >> The plans show it as a >> 6ifd. >> That's all right. All right.

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>> I have no other notes to you. >> Okay. I got it all. >> Good. >> Mr. Lmanowitz, >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Okay. Any other board members questions? >> No, we're good. >> What water are usually? >> Do we need to

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do we need to worry about that? Not right. >> Well, I think there was testimony that you asked the question the last water usage about water usage. I believe the testimony was most of the water is recirculated. I think that was maybe part of your testimony. >> It was part of my testimony. So, on average, we recycle about 40% of our

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water. And the other thing that we testified about was that all of the water that comes through the wash tunnel goes through an oil water separator before being discharged into the sanitary system. >> That was our testimony last time. Okay. Any other questions from the audience?

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Any questions from the board? Would one of my members like to recommend approval of this application, please? >> Sure. Um, I think it is was summed up very well by Mr. Mcdana. I think it is going to improve the area and if you

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continue what Chick-fil-A did aesthetically, it'll be a big improvement. So, everything else has been agreed upon. So I'll be voting for it. Application 2567

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flagship 1236 Route 46 block 715 lot 12 zone R3 uh recommend granting uh preliminary final site plan with C and D variances to construct the car

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wash. And how do you want to phrase this, Mr. Johnson? with respect to the conditions that that the applicant agreed to on the record. >> Yes. >> Exactly. >> Including the conditions that the >> including the conditions that have been discussed at the hearing and agreed

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upon. >> Wonderful. >> Second. >> Second. Um I I just want to make a little statement that I um feel that you we should be guided and you as well by the

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DOT and the importance of egress from Chick-fil-A and ingress to the car wash. That's very important to me because that's a potential problem. But we know we know the statutes are there and we but we have been guided by the DOT and

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I'm demanding that that will be done and be done properly. >> So in in view of that in view of that I will vote yes. >> So so we'll add a provision in the resolution that indicates that if there is a change required pursuant to do

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regulations that that change will be made. >> Right. Great. >> And review of that I vote. Yes. >> Joshua. Yes. >> Mella. >> Yes. >> Modi. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Ready? >> Yes. >> Yes.

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>> Thank you everyone. Have a great night. >> Thank you very much and good evening. >> I have a question. >> Oh yes sir. >> Do you have a question? >> Is it something that >> been sitting to wait for a whole other >> Can we can we help you with something or do you have a question?

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>> Two minutes. Um, I just want to make sure that I'm not doing the same mistake next time. >> So, so hold on a second. I want you to go at the microphone. >> You need to just identify yourself for the record. >> Okay. I'm Roman Suban from 10 California

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Road. >> You just So, you were an application earlier this evening and now you have a question. >> All right. >> What's your question? Um I just want to ensure this is the one of the documents that I had initially >> that was the part that was a portion of your survey.

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>> So what I suggested is that you have a large survey that has the signature block in the lower right hand corner. Correct. And um just to be u um what is it say you want by 3x4 ft or what is the uh >> is there something

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>> just so it shows up on here >> just shrink that one just so it shows >> so the whole document is on one piece of paper >> one single page so it's easy to see in one shot got it >> and then I was just reading because I gave this document if I may come by and

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see this is the document that you guys are asking for this yeah your document Sorry, it's so small. It's in my phone. >> It is like a fivepage document. >> Yeah, that that looks like an architectural plan. >> Yeah. So, this is the one organized, won't you?

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>> Well, I I can't see from that on your phone. >> The answer is if it's an architectural plan, that's what they >> That's what we gave you. >> You need enough copies for >> You need enough copies of this one. >> 15 copies. No.

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>> Where did you file me? >> This door doesn't have >> I think he mentioned Mr. >> Huh. >> He mentioned >> maybe they got up there. >> I received what I have is the survey.

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Who brought the Whole >> My Motion? >> Not yet. He's on the record. I'm >> trying to figure out where the 15 copies went around. >> You may want to You want You may want to

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come back check with uh No, you're not. >> No, no, we wasted your time tonight. That's all. >> Thank you, sir. >> I'm going to bring my document. It came in a big FedEx drawer of paper

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for me. So, I made two copies, the original copies, and then I put the copy together. >> If if you have additional questions, I'm sure Norah can answer that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We don't have to. You could call Norah. She'll tell you exactly what you need. >> Sure. Because I'm flying out tomorrow, so I need to prepare all the

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>> call. Sure. >> Motion to adjurnn, please. >> Some move. >> Second. >> Thank you, sir. Thank you. >> Thank you. I know >> I I and I and >> I

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know he's got so many >> I mean it gets it gets to be recyc So he gets to show somebody. >> God forbid somebody else is in the morning.

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>> What's that? >> Prior board.