[Music] here Mr Kaplan here Mr ready Mr willings chairman IE our board planner Mr chadli board engineer Mr Mr L Mano sorry and our board attorney uh Mr Johnson there so tell I've read this hold on I'm sorry what sorry you've got to go into close first oh I'm sorry so you've got to read the closed session resolution okay and then someone's got to move second and pass that and then we can go and closed and then it's attorney client whereas the open public meetings act PL 1975 chapter 231 permits the exclusion of the public from a meeting in certain circumstances and whereas the township of pany Troy Hills Board of adjustment is of the opinion that such circumstances presently exist and whereas the township of Hearts Up androy Hills Board of adjustment wishes to discuss attorney client privilege regarding Danny reality versus for chipy Troy Hills PB PB oh it should say U Board of adjustment Board of adjustment boa boa okay sorry and whereas minutes will be kept and once the matter involving the confidentially confidentiality of the above no longer requires confidentiality the minut can be made public now therefore be resolved by the township of pany Troy Hills Board of adjustment that the public be excluded from this meeting do I have a motion to Second any discussion roll call or just the voice roll call please yes Rani yes yes yes will yes yes very much I appreciate that thank you open the door have a motion all in favor oppose okay journal the special session when IJ the special meeting I move toj the special session second all in favor anyone oppos on you're on record announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 calling for D SI at SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings act please call the rooll Mr bur here M bani here Mr Jos Mr Kaplan Mr Petty yes Mr Ed Mr Wills chairman irane I have board planner Mr Chadwick board engineer Mr L manowitz and board attorney Mr Johnson here at this point in this evening's meeting is there any member of the public has any business that brought to this board that is not on this evening's agenda I hear none and see none we have correspondence ohge stand ra your right hand please swear that any testimony give tonight should be the truth the whole truth nothing the truth yes swear any Tes be the truth the truth truth yes I do thank you okay uh okay we have correspondence uh regarding case 2327 wish to be Carri to July 10th without further notice and a grants extension to the board I have a motion to set second is there any discussion all in favor I anyone opposed okay we have resolutions we move on to the resolution we might want uh Mr O'Neal come up uh forine outdoor we are not hearing that this Mr O'Neal good evening Mr O'Neal evening Mr chairman members of the board I gu we're talking about Klein outdoor correct m in need of a German I apologize my client is currently out of state and fail to put an es you know Mr oral is beginning to to seem like these sign applications that we have a 50-50 chance of hearing them so I don't think we're surprised all right so when do you want to carry this to August 7th my earliest day I'm sorry August 7th we should all right so we're going to call we're going to carry client Outdoor Advertising to August 10th 7th 7th and that's without further notice and you'll give us an extension to August 31st yeah thank you very much thank you everyone do I have a motion to that effect any discussion all in favor anyone opposed good that's done okay resolutions application 2404 I think I saw have res resolution page here somewhere uh okay vote bur grani Jess K Petty uh ready and willings uh someone like to move that application move that resolution any discussion nor call the rooll bit yes grani yes JT Kaplan Eddie yes ready willings yes application 249 bur woodz grani josz kapan Petty ready and willins second any discussion nor call the roll burwitz yes bani yes Jos Kaplan paty yes ready yes willing yeah and we are not approving the third resolution this evening we're not approving the third no they owe escrow oh me okay so we're hearing 2358 correct Nora yes okay application 2358 Assad rizy 80 Hawkins Avenue C variant to construct the carport Edition two story Edition landing and stairs off Second Story Edition good evening can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay can you state your name and spell your last name please sure my name is Assad and last name is r i z v [Music] i than you can sit down if you want to okay you are in in a what zone is this R3 you're in an R3 Zone which requires a 15,000 square ft with 100t Frontage you have you have a conforming lot you 80 80 foot wide lot so you don't there 125 so you have a sub a substandard lot in this in this Zone if you had a with with with with if you had a a a conforming lot you might not even be here all you'd have to go is you know so so why don't you tell what's that still be for impious coverage with a performing lot anyway be anyway so why of you tell us why you want to do what you're going to do you know family additional bedroom rooms or Etc just sure Mr chairman the main problem with that house is uh the covered area is mainly covered by the garage and the shed and the actual living area where my family lives is like pretty less so that's why I want to expand it that's the reason for the two story addition so that I can get a living area which is you know proper living area and carport is because I need a place where I can park the car so that my mother she's elderly so she can come into the house with a shed because if it is raining it gets really hard with a kid and you know mom to get inside the house so that's why this app how about the garage in the back what do you use that for I use it like right now but the problem is when I come out of the garage and walk all the way till the house um I just get red and for more than me is for the parents and you know for the kids how many car you got sorry how many cars do you have one car there all yeah because has one car I have just one car right now I'm planning to buy one more okay now you mentioned your mother she has a car that I did not buy yet but I will buy a car for her so you're going to have two cars now I will have two that's why you want the carport you're you're if you if you had this addition here you're not going to be able to drive to to the garage anymore are you um not to the garage but I if I have this carport I will be able to enter the main door without getting wet it's it's is it going to be a drive-thru carport or not uh it's going to be a drive-thru so you could get that get to the garage if you wanted to park your car in the garage is that possible uh not all the way till garage there still open space okay how do you get to the garage now right now uh I just parked the car because the driveway is pretty long so I drive like park on the driveway and then I just walk down to the house if I have to like park my car all the way in the garage I just drive all the way so you don't park in the garage very often I I do but sometimes because for my mom it's difficult to walk that much so that if she I go go inside the garage and she has to come out it gets really difficult that's one of the reason like apart from the rain and snow another reason is like walking all the way from garage all the way to the house if I just park near the house it's very easy for convenient for her to just get out of the car and get into the house you but you're asking for a variance to for your sidey yard setback of 1.63 ft when required is I believe 10 um have you discussed this at all with your neighbor to the side have you told him what your plans are uh how how close is his house to your house like his house um I don't have the exact measurement I was not able to talk to him because he was in India I did try to reach out to him he was in India then he came back he went to Atlanta but um yeah I don't know how I sent a letter to because he's renting U that house so it's always the tenants who are living in that house so I never see him there he's the only one in the house he's not a family uh like in the neighborhood next door next door to the where you propose the carboard only one person lives in the house or family uh for my or the no next door oh next door I think it's a family because the tenants they keep changing the tenant I think every year they renew the lease so that's why sometimes I see one person some sometimes I see nor the survey shows a a measurement on it it looks like it's to a deck or a building 11.2 I don't know if that means that's this sidey yard to next to our neighbor building there's a fence here along that driveway the deck the deck that comes out towards that driveway [Music] so the addition you want to put the the addition on the back of the house right yeah that's understood okay so got one story frame out I have a real problem with the carport and and coaching and the variance you're looking for there so close to property just a thought why can't you just put a covered walkway from your garage or whatever to your back door to your door come in and not have that carport there why does a carport have to have that approval is it a hardship for you what's the deal one thing is so yes that covered walk will make sure that we don't get know the rain and the understood but with the with the car also I want to protect my car so that you know it stays in the carport rather than you know putting it in the garage why not expand the garage the garage is is already oversized the main problem in this case otherwise I wouldn't be here the main problem is the garage and the shed behind the garage it's so big if you look at the survey it's like shed where's the shed you can't even fit a shed behind theage yeah the garage it includes shed and garage that complete thing is much more than my house like not more but at least it's comparable to my house the living in area in the house is like not that much so I understand that you know two story addition will definitely but carport is also going to help me protect my car that's why I requested for you know it's going to help protect your car but it's it's a it's a very large encroachment on the guidelines that you have to fulfill as far as separation from the side yard okay the current neighbor there's a renter so he might not say too much but the owner that that would be our problem okay you're encroaching on the property line there within and you need a variance and I'm understanding and appreciate your concern but I think you could have some other Solutions other than a carport uh to come up with that solution to keep your cars protected and not get wet yes Mo move it to the back between why can't you have that carport kind of look or whatever between the garage and your house why does it have to be right on the side of the house there right outside of the house only because because it also should look you know the overall curb appeal because if I start putting bits and pieces of things on the property doesn't come together as a picture so I want to make sure the car P it also aligns with how the house looks okay it's just it's just that is only 2.8 ft from the SL line what's 2.8 the garage is 2.8 ft yeah that's yeah but that doesn't butt on but the house as far as you know your neighbor gets no water from where the house is uh sorry the water is you're not the neighbor's not having there's no water problems this survey is dated uh a 1221 survey says your house is a on story house it's not a one story my god did you add a story to it no no it was already there when I bought it okay so the twostory Edition will match what the existing home is yes it's it's it's just that um the requirement is 10 ft and you're asking for a foot and a half that's that's it's a severe encroachment on the on the neighbor's property now you know there's a neighbor there now who rents the property and what if he decides to move there and then he's got to look at your you know you're going to be right on top of him and uh you know it it it's not a solution I mean if you if it was if the requirement was 10 and you were asking for eight or asking for six it's a lot more palatable but asking for for a foot and a half it's I don't think it's going to fly I really don't then you can put it in the back yeah why can't you move that to the back seriously in the back that's the only thing in putting in the back is uh when I put car to port and the house together like in a picture the car appe goes away you know because then I I was planning to buy a car port like the I understand but it encroaches not because the curb your next door neighbor is going to get constant and immediate lap of curb appeal cuz your addition is going to go right on his property um yes but I think if the house looks good like for his neighbor if my house looks good it's also right and right now right now you're you're you come in on your asphalt driveway you drive over the area where you want to put the carport to go to your garage right all that is paved now all that is paved now okay so you just want to put a carport there and that's the encroachment thing that's the problem it ain't going to fly so you're still going to be able to put your car back there just put the carport back in the backyard further okay is it possible I can put a small carport so that know decrease the WID or something it's not how big that has to be in ter you can put like I mean you got to make it h y to get the car in there how long you want to make it is up to you yeah what I was thinking Bo told you you can't put it where you show you I agree and what I am requesting is if is it possible I can even if one part of the car like where when I come in even if one door is covered so the passenger side person can go out in a covered way so the other part of the house like the car can still be open so when I come out it is open it's fine I'm thinking is it possible I can put a narrow size carport I don't know that's that's how we're here what we're here to looking for a variance that if that variance have to come back with another plant in my opinion well he put something up that he not he put a little shed right it's not far enough from the house you get out of the car just put a shed roof from your house on the driveway right there yeah like an warning thing well he's wait he's got 14t right you can't he got so you can put something four feet cuz he only has to be 10t back yeah so he could put a a port a um an awning an awning or something like that that four feet out mhm so some you pull up the 4ot aim awning and you could do that all along the side of the house 4T okay and you don't even need a variance for that right yeah you would you wouldn't even need variance for that okay okay yeah that'll solve your problem right yeah partially okay well I I was looking for a carp approv you know because and believe me we would love to give it to you but it's just a little too much encroachment and we're willing to give it to a different place you don't want that yeah so you're understand correctly you're eliminating the carport yes we're not approving the carport okay as as sounds to me like the carports been eliminated from the application yes and it will change the um yeah it will change the building coverage yes it's already covered no it's not to would CH by much and the impervious coverage is already over so it doesn't make any so we're going to we're going to Grant you a variance for the building coverage and the impervious coverage thank you and you're withdrawing the carport addition okay um is there any other questions by the board are there any members of have a I don't why is the picture of your house show a twostory house John John that question survey is old three years old my year is when did you the house he said it February 21 that's what he said did this survey it doesn't look like after because IED for uh fence so that's why the survey was done so I got the permit for putting the F okay [Music] okay Mr chairman can I ask one question please yes because if the concern is about the neighbor um is it an option if I personally talk to him and he says okay that's not no we're not gonna no we're not in favor of a foot and a half I'm sorry I'm really sorry go okay any members of the public have any questions of this witness on a testimony given this evening go here and see see any questions do not okay is there anything you're you're you're okay we're okay at this point you have a solution to your there any members of the public who wish speak in opposition to this application in support of this application I hear none and see none do we need we don't need a conference some someone make a brief statement as to why this is a good application I think the fact that the applicant is willing to withdraw the part of the application that is concerning for the board and the uh he'll withdraw that and is cooperative on that issue uh the rest of the project makes sense and I'll be voting for it okay um motion to uh someone frame resolution please it's on a roll go okay application 23 colum 58 Assad risby 8 Hawkins Avenue block 716 lot 20 zone or 3 recommend granting a SE variant to construct uh a two story Edition landing and stairs off Second Story Edition contrary to section 43035 columns 510 and 13 do I have to say no carport or No Yes uh and without a carport included second any discussion nor call the rooll burtz yes Rani yes Jos yes Kaplan yes Teddy yes ready yes Williams Yan yes result Vari is granted for the two things we disc much enjoy good luck thank you okay let's go to the video no let's go to the next application i a a t application 23 12 you're welcome to stay but you can go if you want to you don't have to stay if you don't want I mean we would appreciate it must be something good on [Music] TV we have a [Music] multi oh yeah sure go far we are going to go to the video tape okay good MTI Jo are you going to address the issue [Music] that going to address we got your magic show here Joe got to cut somebody in half [Music] we yeah okay what you guys officially IAC to the theb I drew those webs the original yes that split Zone everybody want to keep the houses right the houses are in the residential and the commercial right but yeah that's where we're at but the says it's got to be in a commercial Zone prob not in a commercial Zone it is all have you got a letter saying your permit is good no I I got a valid you're r on the valid well the valid permit that you yeah it's a split Z it's in the commercial and what I'm saying is say commercial buy that prop resal I guess so I guess so oh my God I'm prepared to go forward be a defect it'll be I'm getting a little scared this is more props build right there you take out all that stuff going have S what some s hey nor can you send out for a big bag of popcorn oh go you got my response to yes S I don't know what happened was there I put it on the wrong just was a different number no it was your fourth payment it was exactly your fourth payment L but for some reason when I put the fourth payment in it was in two pieces oh you I don't know last end up mostly by myself 85% % by myself I enjoy it I love I really did okay and this is the my my software it's the first one first one [Music] is just when I needed more joh have some questions on this worked [Music] out no huh clst Max yeah don't tell anybody that ta turns in my house um you couldn't get a variance down here you didn't get the association no way we get the association anyway U I had a Hol when I was working the safety impact do it supplemental I had to be my own Hol I you know I had to go to postage me or [Music] anything these guys are going to be your [Music] first was pretty good here work here there some members of the board for that opportunity to set this video up which is going to be utilized by our first witness Mr voy who I will introduce in a moment uh we were before you previously and an issue came up about the split nature of the Zone here it is commercial in the front and vacant portion in the back it is residential I was brought up to our attention that there was a certain mapping tool used that showed very fine detail where the property line was and there was some confusion as to whether or not the sign was going to be placed in that commercial Zone and there was also a question of what would the effect of the Dual Zone be on the uh permit issued by NJ DP I apologize to my client is not here but he did have an opportunity to speak to people in the permitting department at NJ do and they confirmed that they knew of the split Zone condition when they approved it they had done an independent investig ation and we're satisfied that the permit was valid I will add also that the tool you guys were using in your Engineering Process was never adopted by the township as an official map and appears to be unavailable to the general public or at least I could so with those preambles what we would like to do is we would like to proceed at our own risk based upon our conversation in NJ do we are convinced that the permits are valid proceed before you the see uh did you submit the permit as part of your application I do believe we did yes okay so the next that think I saw it but if you if not could you get it to us Absolutely I'll have it to you for tomorrow morning if you don't have it already had you the microphone closer [Music] [Music] many more of these I'm going to Mark a copy of the permit for this evening is exhibit I don't know if I marior I don't have any notes that you did all right we'll go with A1 [Music] this is a copy a color copy of the permit with attachments addressing the [Music] question so with that I'd like to [Music] uh was he previously sworn uh he did swear him in last as far as remember I think so I think this issue came up pretty quickly into the presentation I believe good evening uh again William vote from l2a Land Design uh we prep had de side plans for the uh proposed billboard um what I have on the right hand side is that Mike okay if you could [Music] CL okay um on the right hand side I have the set of site plans that were submitted as part of the application it's a three-page set has revision one dated 11323 and then on the left hand side I just have a overall aerial photograph um of the subject lot uh with the property highlighted in red um let's mark that as exhibit A2 for the [Music] sure so the uh the site is is located at 100e 46 uh it's found in that's Lot 25 block 693 and it's in your uh where the billboard is being placed at the front of the property along Route 46 that's in the highway development District the B2 Zone if I go to exhibit A2 for the aerial photo you can see that the property is somewhat of a U-shaped uh property it has Frontage along Route 46 it also has Frontage along the uturn off of Route 46 onto Old Bluefield Avenue and the property is a through lot um ordering at the rear of the property on Old Bloomfield Avenue the existing property has a a small convenience store uh video store on the property um access is to and from Route 46 uh through the existing driveway along the front um our proposed billboard uh will be located just to the right or to the east of the existing parking lot within the landscape area that's where our foundation will be placed it's a monopole foundation the location of the foundation will not impact any of the um on-site circulation or reduce any of the parking that's already currently on the site so if I just flip to [Music] to the uh site plan sheet uh CO2 uh what we're proposing is a 14 ft tall by 48 ft long double-sided digital billboard it has a vshape to it so that the uh signs are facing uh as perpendicular as possible to the east westbound uh travelway of Route 46 and I have a total height from the ground to the top of the sign of 39 ft um because of the irregularity of the property um and where we're locating the billboard uh to not impact any of the parking or circulation I am a little close on the uh property line setbacks um along Route 46 um I am a 3T offset and then on the uh the back end off of the um Route 46 U-turn I am uh roughly 10 in off the back what's suppos to it should it be well there aren't any provisions for a billboard but what I can what I have described on the site plan is for your freestanding sign uh within with within the Zone uh the [Music] setback from a front lot line is 15 fet and you're proposing what three that's to the vertical sign face that's up in the air to the pole itself the foundation I don't worry about the pole okay thank you sure um okay uh so in addition to that um what are the setback standards for the principal building sure for the principal building uh the minimum front yard setback is 50 uh the existing building is at 44.6 7 ft and the sidey yard [Music] setback is 10 ft and uh the building is currently at 12.37 FT [Music] you say that the building is currently why do you say currently is there proposed change to the building I'm sorry could you please repeat the questions it's kind of difficult you made the comment that the current building is 12T or proposed so is there going to be a change of the building then the existing building the existing building is at those Dimensions I imag Mr V you were talking about the setback for a sign is that setbacks for billboard in general of town are you referring to a sign for building on premises I am referring to the freestanding sign provision and it's found in uh chapter 287 uh A3 for a freestanding sign setback I'm going to amend our application to ask for the 10- foot setback variance because I would consider this to be a second primary use on the property I don't think you can rely on an accessory setback number for them so 15 foot no would be what's the sidey set back 15 ft 15 no well you got the front yard which is the ramp that's three verse 15 didn't you say 10 I in I thought said oh I'm sorry it's 10 in 10 in so it's 10 in res correct that's on the that's on the pulloff for the turnaround the ordinance PR goes on quite a bit about Bill Bo princip I certainly agree with [Music] that um okay so then just in addition uh if I can just I know lighting has come up uh in the past on some other applications um wanted to just share with you um what we're proposing for this particular billboard itself um I have I have a couple of exhibits let's mark them [Music] individual do you want to go with the video first or you um well let me just let me just explain the technology first and then we can get into the video okay I think that will be a little bit Zer um so I guess I can I can mark this uh A3 [Music] [Music] okay so A3 which is on the left hand side uh this is the this is the eastbound Direction uh looking at the sign which would be called the leftand re so it's 25t A4 on the right hand side is the westbound direction looking at the sign and that would be called the right hand reg it's on the right side of what proposing with this billboard uh it has a technology for light mitigation so what the um what the billboard uh diodes do is they are recessed within the uh components of the screen so that it Narrows the viewing angle to only 30° in each Direction so there are there's a cone shape that comes out on both of these exhibits okay okay for 30° off center in each Direction which shows the outermost of the of the two legs in both directions what what that's opposed to is let me just show you what a a full component would look like if it was a 70° read and I I'll mark these uh five and [Music] six what bearing does this have on our approval or now the application you're proposing 30% what what do we care about 70% what would it look [Music] like I believe the comparison is in case you have seen other Billboards in operation this will give you flavor for how this may be different and I think it plays into the planning testimony uh and some of the proofs uh for the other witnesses that we have um so what I marked is a A5 which is a um A5 is the same um leftand read where we have a 70° angle in both directions so you can see the two differences of the viewing angle between a what they call a six ° viewing angle versus 140° viewing angle and then I'll do the same with that yellow is difficult to see maybe you could just Trace one I I could pass these around if it's it makes cier but you you will be able to see it on the video so but the yellow so it's showing the width let's say right the the span that's correct what about the length just how far right so is that the true length of how far the light will be seen or the effect of this and I guess I'm leading to the effect of eventually what effect it has on any residential units in the area sure that's a very good question so the billboard it's illum it's illuminated it gives off light um if you can see it um it you will be able to see it that's the point of the message mhm what it doesn't do it doesn't project light so that's like trespass like like the lights that are in this room it's Illuminating the ground and the desks and the and the areas around you the lighting on the billboard is not intended to do that and that's not what it does it's only to illuminate the sign to a certain extent so that the traveling public can see it it's very similar to your smartphone or your uh dashboard in your car where in the evening time it dims down so during the day it is at 100% output it's using all of its uh Power to compensate for the ambient light from the sun and then in the evening hours um there are control mechanisms uh time zones photometric cells that automatically dim the billboard to a 3% output just very similar to either your phone or your dashboard so in the evening hours um you have very little what I'm going to call as light trespass so that's light that is shines forward um I guess this would be [Music] A7 so A7 is these are the illumination levels um at the different angles so 0 de is straight on from the face of the billboard that's where you have the most light and then as you peel off to 15° and the maximum 30° um you'll see that the light levels drop significantly so at 100t distance so the first the first rung out from the center of the billboard you'll have a maximum light level of 68 foot C that mean yeah sure you have a maximum output of 68 foot candles so that is if the billboard is the only uh object in the sky that's illuminated that's not taking into account any ambient light this is showing you only the light from the actual billboard now you have street lights you have lights from the business Corridor that's along Route 46 you have car lights that are much higher light levels than 68 so just as a frame of reference 0 five is likely the minimum in your ordinance uh for a nighttime illumination for safety of a parking lot typically you'd want something around two foot candles um in your parking lot for nighttime so I guess I I might be premature in my questioning I don't know you'll tell me and I don't know if you're the person who's going to answer this eventually this jorgan gets complicated and I don't know if it's the best way to understand things but in the first picture A2 it looks like there's some residential units yeah are they going to see the light behind that one behind that picture behind sorry that so if you if as we're looking on the back left those look like homes are they homes no the other side top the top behind behind the signs right no I I understand that but the that's the point of of the 30° restriction is that our our light level only comes to the what I'm going to call the midpoint of the adjacent building here okay so you're telling me those houses on the top correct are not going to have an effect from that light they're not going to see it and that's the video that we're going to play for you what about when it's foggy or cloudy or there's snow I don't understand what that would um because it carries the light uh it it actually doesn't carry any light like a reflection so when it's foggy or there's low clouds or there's I'll leave it at cloudy or foggy it reflects off of the fog and clouds I know that for a fact so it does illuminate the area around there so when it's foggy will it will they still see this glow off of the board they will not okay they will not see that so there's no way that any of those houses will see that it's like it like if if they stood outside on their porch right now however dark it is and they stood out on that porch if that were built it would look exactly the same they would see a black screen because they would be Beyond 30° angle and if it's that foggy the headlights of the cars are also but not as much can tell you that from personal experience of where I live is that true that the light will carry through the fog absolutely really absolutely well okay I don't know the technical terms or why it works you have any specific knowledge of the phenomenon describe I think you're you're comparing two different light sources you're comparing lights that are perhaps uh headlights which throw light forward at a high rate versus let me let me give you my my personal experience I live behind the Whole Foods those lights are projecting straight down I know they're very different than the diod you're talking about but they were designed so that the neighborhood behind them wouldn't see on a night like tonight I don't see them in my backyard correct when it's foggy everything is lit up and I can see through the woods to the building sure that's what I'm talking about completely different light source okay so yes I I Now understand what you're talking about 100% I agree with you that's not a billboard if you had a static board with uplighting that's faced out towards the front right you would hear someone say you get a glow effect around the billboard or a Halo yeah that's and I would expect to see that if you had a foggy evening or an over you know snow or or Y okay what about the apartments across the street and I know there's a build there's like a couple buildings right in between them sure so you're you're saying in the other direction uh it's right at the bottom there you might just get a couple of the buildings barely at the bottom I don't think there's any Department in face that we talking oh maybe one's on the end yeah right there we're talking about the yeah so again because of the 30° angle we're cutting off the view from almost all over see the black that you referenced earlier correct okay so you would see the structure and a and a black picture on the front of the Sun okay so I can um I can play the video for you why don't do that can I just ask one so just directly if you're not in the cone that's described that's set forth on the exhibits you can't see the diodes is that accurate that is very accurate okay so this is A8 what is the video A8 and how did you come by sure a a so this is on so the product that they're using the manufacturer of the the screen is called watchfire on the watchfire website and we can provide the link to everyone in the public there's a link to this video which shows the differences between the 140t and the 60 foot range so we're going to play this first video uh off of their website [Music] [Music] sound so what happens is the screen on the left versus the screen on the right you can see where the screen turned turn black once you get beyond the 30° Mark so do you want to play the second okay okay we'll we'll play one more time so this is the now the screen turns black only for people viewing from that distance from any from any distance when you're when you're outside of that cone you will see a black screen only when you're within that 60° window 30 degrees on each side of Center will you actually see the [Music] message and you can see the one on the right hand side the 60° turns to black where the where the other one on the left has the full 140 de so you just said outside that sphere you will not see the message does that you don't see anything you don't see anything not just the message you don't see light correct okay so are the billboard you will see the structure of course that's I I I can't make that that would be some technology to happen well my point is we're we're building a tll structure that people are going to see from their homes correct okay so I'm just going to play the second video this video was given to us from the same company watchfire they took this video at a uh another location it's not in New Jersey you'll tell from the landscape but it's of a same technology of an existing sign and they flew a drone around the side of it to show you what this what the 30° cut off is and what you will actually see when you're beyond the 30° that's not New Jersey I wish that was New Jersey what look look at the move around outside the car is that with this 60 ft so as you can see the the sign starts to fade out and now once you get to the 30° it turns to black and then the other side is a static billboard and you you'll see the uplights that are facing the static side and now we'll come back around with the Drone and then you'll see that image start to come back once I get inside of the 30° question the static sign is not going to be seen by the neighbors Prett impressive are not St so that's that's what what that's what they call the light mitigation technology I miss the beginning is that that wasn't a computer simulation that was an actual camera that's an actual drone correct [Music] that's actual taking show us is when they want to build a v [Music] shap that they showing us and once you go outside of that 30 30 ft 30 different the back the back [Music] and you're showing us a static sign on the other side this is an example this sign's going to have this mitig techology both sides that's correct you'll have you'll have a digital screen on both sides but they both function the same man is this like a patented technology that just this firm has or is this something that other sign companies could also use um I've I've presented for one other manufacturer that has a similar technology it's not the same as this um because I'm asking because if we have and we seem to be getting more and more signs to me this is an impressive technology that is less intrusive to residential a you know people it's something to think about in the future to to request I guess I guess when we were putting this exhibit together we came across excuse me the fact that this is proprietary technology M and they were hesitant to share certain things with us till we impressed upon them how much we okay so um you know I I think that was discussed before basically in a in in very simple terms what they do is you've probably heard testimony when applicants come in for uh lighting up a parking lot and there's maybe a residential property next door and they'll say that the lights that we're going to put on the property have houseside shields or full cut off okay so the full cut off means that there's no light that reflects upwards and then the houseside shield means that the ballast is directing all the light forward so you have no light going backwards they do a very similar thing just on a smaller scale because the diodes are so tiny what they do is they recess them in into the screen and then they still have louvers on the top and the bottom for the full cut off for the top and the bottom so they're doing top bottom left and right so the further recess the diode is the narrower the con I mean that I that I'm not sure but I know this is the narrowest that they go down to is 30 degrees in each Direction otherwise I don't think there would really be a point to put the sign up because you wouldn't you wouldn't have a viewing angle um in time and you proposing the 30 degree here because of or is versus 60° right well we're we're proposing the the 60 Dee in both sides uh keeping in mind that we're on a commercial Corridor and they're but yet there still are Residential Properties behind us confus 60° on both sides or 30° on each side ping 6 de the ladder okay yeah you missed bu yeah you have an angle 120° no 60 total no it's it's 60 total oh 30 30 on each side that's as small as you can make it that's as small as the technology go and how back how far away from the sign can I see you the optimum viewing angle angle or distance um when when we look at these signs uh is anywhere from 1,000 feet to 250 ft but what's your exhibit here the road that's going to cross there so if that sign is approved there they'll be able to read that as they go across that other road new road that is new road so so if they go across new road at 46 they can look over there and see that that's correct so that that's a that's 300 feet to the to the last um angle here well how far how far can you read the message from I mean you can see the light but you can't really read the message yes I mean if you're in viewing of the sign and it's illuminated you're going to see that there's a there's a sign there um you won't be able to read it until you get to a certain distance so you see illumination but no detail you'll see that something is has luminance not that that's the difference illumination is like dress when can I read it when can you read it so if I come off a new roow I'm coming how close do I have well I can start to read it so the the reading angle is between a, and 250 degrees the the prime spot not feet is 500 ft is the is the reading Direction so are you sure that uh the traffic on New Road are not distracted by this FL he say traffic on on New Road no they they wouldn't be they wouldn't be be able to see the sign that I mean that's a signalized intersection do you know what the next closest sign is that's been approved by this board I I don't have I don't know if he's the right person isn't it Harbor the one we just did Freight we just did harbard Freight has got the billboard are you familiar with the sign that's on Route 46 East in mville that's a static sign yes you are we were just talking about it's a digital sign there is it is it a digital sign digal they replace you I hav't in Mar I mean I didn't do that at it's just over the property L do that I didn't know what the distance requirement is between Billboards there's one on thee 46 just just past Danny realy there's a digital sign oh really never notic oh in the Pine Brook yeah Pinebrook it's what myart phone so in order to get a DOT permit uh from a digital sign to a digital sign on the same side of the road has to be a minimum of 3,000 ft is there what is there a rule for opposite side what about opposite side there's no rule for the opposite because the sign is showing both directions so it's going to affect the same people the the distance requirements between Bill Billboards only applies to the side that the billboard is on that's why you commonly see Billboards on both sides of the highway because there's no restriction say the do the dot would not permit um they don't permit signs that are closer than 3,000 ft on on the same side it's on the opposite side it does not apply criteria it doesn't make any sense the TR you're seeing it from both Direction static can be 300 the Pine Brook sign very low it's probably closer it's still digital sign the yeah okay that was my next question what was your next question my next question is if that sign can be low Why Can't This one be low I I don't know that sign in particular and what the it's easy out well maybe we'll let uh Mr do take but I if that sign where that static sign used to be it's got the trees framing it from behind whereas this would have to store for right is that the is that the same I think you're right yeah I mean we have just before you get the the furniture it used to be a furniture store in Pinebrook is a kitchen supply store [Music] for kitchen supply store yeah I think that's what it is now sorry uh Mr V that's fine um yeah so the the height that we're proposing um [Music] that will give us the uh Optimum viewing uh for the sign uh in the corridor it's commercial Corridor there's large buildings there there's also large pylon signs we don't want to impede on any of the other businesses or signage that is on uh the corridor uh and that is the height that we're proposing what's the height of the building next to the sign there on the left you know uh yeah let me just switch to the back to the site plon the existing building on the site yeah I guess that's a [Music] story not next with on the site yeah actually it's not on the site it's the one next to it the building next to it not the not the convenience store whatever you want to call it okay is that the is that the boutique store yes the boutique store um that one is the existing uh building on our site it's roughly about 15t in height um this will be 20 ft above [Music] that 39 ft top we will be we will be 5T above the existing pylon sign that's on this property so just to give you in scale uh will be 5 ft to the bottom um of the existing side and that existing sign is roughly the height of the existing building it's six it's almost 17t tall the building next door um I think that's is that a SAT prep is that one of the tenants that's in there that's a slightly taller building I would put that at 24 or 25 ft tall sign still be 20 ft above those to the to the top of the sign to the 39 39 ft would be to the very top of the sign and the bottom of the sign is how um the bottom of the sign off the off the ground is 20 we're 25 ft to the bottom of the sign if you switch to CO3 there's a uh elevation so we would be to the to the physical screen it's 25 ft above ground [Music] level which is 10 ft above it the current store levels I'm sorry I could hear you which is 10 ft above the current store levels start at 10 ft above M the existing building correct balloon what fly balloon yes so let's talk a little bit about the uh Engineers reports uh sure did you have anything you wanted to add on [Music] that signage itself what are we looking at [Music] uh okay while we're looking that up I just want to confirm with you that the uh sign is remotely controlled is that true uh that's correct so um the sign is is all uh programmed uh remotely um they monitor at 247 uh 365 days a year um there are um with the digital billboard you have eight you have um 8 second reads on each of the signs um so you'll have uh eight different copies within a minute roughly a six it's basically a 64 minute 64 second minute is what they call it um so each ad will be up for 8 seconds and then it'll instantaneously change to the next ad are they working any deals with the town like every other sign seems to be doing well I had a discussion with the township attorney is the plan of the township to enter into agreements with each of these billboard companies for provisions of emergency services communication like that so it'll be we'd like is to add that as a condition should the board see fit to Grant this application at which time we will go and enter that agreement and the township will control the aspects do you know if your client has any internal protocols about that we do we can't offer uh the I would rather not in the public form offer the email of the gentleman who takes those requests we do have that information okay we do have that contact information so there's a person that accepts those requests and and deal yes and we're going to memorialize that with the gotcha so I guess the township will obviously be handling all those that's correct and then U again the the digital signs um they're monitored they have a camera that points that extends out from the sign on either side that points at the sign for two reasons it make sure that it's operating correctly that uh it can be um that it's not going into uh there's not a a a fault with any of the screens or the diodes and the second is to prove to the customers that they're is actually being run so there's like I said 247 monitoring on these Billboards they have uh encrypted software where they have uh no piracy uh people are not breaking into these um there are no ladder rungs uh installed on the digital uh monopoles up to the uh top of the screen you would have to bring a uh physical lift to the property uh to get to the C walk that is in between the two uh signs in the middle um not that really anyone ever has to go up there uh the maintenance is very minimal on the digital uh Billboards versus uh honestly if they they probably do re uh a routine quarterly uh just to check the sign out if there's any issue they would absolutely go out to the sign um if not they would be fined by do if there was an issue with the sign and they weren't maintaining it that's why you'll see on every billboard it has the company name and it has an ID number that's associated with the do permit now we're going to be talking about did we answer all the questions yeah I I think so I I didn't have any issues with um the engineer's letter I mean we're not proposing any Landscaping um you know around the base of the uh of the structure I guess that that's probably the only open item that I think I would have but we're going to be able to provide the survey where uh there's no environmental constraints on the property isn't that correct that's correct for any reason you don't some kind of landscaping around bar um I I think we're amenable to uh Landscaping um if we can work that out with the board professionals uh I do have four protective concrete ballards that protect the uh base of the structure from the parking area we going to submit a landscaping plan to the board but that's fine I I can work with the board professionals or do oh sure is that James Walsh yeah so we like that as a condition Mr Walsh's approval post just I come down I'm going what West from 46 turn out of this drug can and this sign is going to be 7 in 8 in from my side of the car uh it's going to be 10 in from the property line um from the edge of pavement you're going to be uh eight about 8 and 1 12 ft from the have look up to read the sign if I make the turn you won't be able to see it at that close distance once you get closer than roughly 250 to 200 feet it it starts to get difficult to uh look at the sign because it it gets out of your [Music] peripheral is near a 500 foot R rule from the merg point of ramps can be for the for the do requirement uh there there are uh that would I believe that's for an on ramp not an off ramp [Music] and again the dot has issued the permit uh for this particular location so they have vetted all of the requirements in their own code I think there's like 11 or 12 requirements that they go by um so it it complies with every um stipulation in their regulations otherwise we wouldn't have the permit if permit to you so what areen you in in compliance with from our Township why are you in front of us well other than the use variance that's the only reason you're here it's pretty much a use variance because all of the other zoning criteria for the most part doesn't apply to the sign because it's not permitted use than but just still requesting C variances correct as a matter of course I request variances whether or not I think they're merged and I let my planner talk about that I understand yeah I I've had other applications and other municipalities because we're a use variants none of the zoning applies and i' I've actually taking it off the site plan uh so that it does not create confusion because it's not a permitted use and you're uh seeking relief for these uh setbacks in the position of the sign height and and the like get my all okay I have no further questions for any other questions of this Witness by the board any members of the public have any questions of this witness on a testimony given this evening please come forward is there a microphone there yeah right there please identify yourself state your name address take it out uh Joseph simuka CMI L UA I'm not I'm actually not here for this case I just found something interesting in the video so this is a chance for you to ask questions of this witness not to give a statement in support of or against just ask questions um on the video that that drone flew at the same level as the sign if that drone was flying like say 10 ft off the ground would it had the same effect as or is the dimming effect uh yes rather than being up 40 ft that's correct okay it would just interesed because the the eye level that we're reading is approximately 5T off the ground that's the average eye level okay uh for either someone walking or traveling that might not be that accurate with the number of trucks on the road you do you have a question for support okay you'll have a chance to do that I have no further questions for call next witness so uh we do have a traffic report prepared for this we can't address questions I I think Mr vot covers most of it U so what I'd like to do is go right on to Mr doy my planner orless was is there any questions on the traffic report I mean it's it's not going to create any more traffic right no no it's not going to decrease the traffic no there's it's just there's a lot of duplication in that but we did have the report so we'll go right in Mr D besides that traffic reports are so boring well it's late I'm tired I mean honestly I was in court this afternoon so I'm little gr you Joe who's the guy used to come all the time with for traffic reports Joe ster Jo great really nice guy really nice guy and you did not testify the last coule pleas right hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give to be the truth the whole truth Dr the truth I do state your name St your last name I last name is d u g h r t Mr Dar you've appeared before this board a number of times and you've been accepted as a professional planning yes I have your license is in good order yes I would submit Mr Dy again as an expert for planning he's qualified thank you now Mr Dar you've had an opportunity to examine the applications is before the board this evening I have you are familiar with the master plan and local ordinances as they concern both this property and billboards yes so I wonder if you can give us your findings please regarding the application and its interaction with those standards certainly um for the for this evening um we prepared a visual exhibit packet of just two slides much um of the existing conditions as it relates to the billboard um we put them on two larger ones if we like we could set them up there and I do have a a print out I can pass it out for most okay let's mark that as 89 maybe you could pass that to Jo down there A9 [Music] so slide one um well does everybody have [Music] it [Music] [Music] not all right all right all right slide one is a drone shot reflective of the uh property in question um indicated the yellow arrow looking westbound on on 46 as we talked about that that Jug Handle loop around this is at 100 46 slide two we kind of uh take the Drone back a little bit and uh look eastbound again approximate location property in question Iden ified with the yellow arrow um for orientation purposes as far as where we're at how far off we are on that intersection um as as regards to a New Road in uh Route 46 in the in The Jug Handle um some of to some of the takeaways uh I'd like to point out is the extensive vegetation uh around that Jug Handle uh particularly you know as it relates to the spring and the the warmer months with the foliage um I know we've heard in great detail about the viewing angles of that 30% um with that being said this application does pose um some use variances here the uh two images uh we put up on the stand is approximately the exact height viewing height of where that uh billboard is um so we flew the Drone um at that uh 39 ft height um so this is this is approximately the the height if you were up there on the billboard looking out I'm so I don't know if we want to Mark those as two separate exhibits um but those yeah could you mark those please on the left is describe it [Music] again say [Music] A10 A10 is thrown shot of the approximate height of the billboard woulding West right above the property location excuse me could you please tilt that a little bit the light is shining on it okay I can bring passes [Music] around height of the Drone representing the billboard right above the location looking West down [Music] A1 and the next one coming round a11 will be of the same narrative but looking eastbound thank you this is if I was looking it up from the B right that's pretty cool did you confirm the he for us please while everyone's get certainly um so the height is uh for the billboard is uh 39 ft so it's approximately 39 ft in that uh perspective so it's that's from the top of the billboard at 39 ft not the center approximately it's a drone I think we we had it pretty close to 39 okay we don't want to deceive and bring it lower show you the height maximum height so just just to help me on my previous question I want to make sure so new road is right here and we're told that that's the ramp that's yeah New Roads in the back yeah New Roads up here right yes but the distance from there to to the ramp people on this going across here are not going to be able to read the signs that that was a testimony we had before coming off a new road yeah approaching that Jug Handle I believe that that was my interpretation of that I think at that light at as you're sitting there you should be able to see the sign can't read the sign you cannot read the sign yeah that's what I'm yeah's uh to to New Road it's yeah I think if you go back to I'm just going to put I'm going to put A4 back up um just want the distance from sign to the all right I'm getting there so it's it's definitely over 300 feet I would I would put it at um probably somewhere around 450 ft to the intersection and at 450 ft you can't read it no that that's not what I'm testifying to if if you're stopped at the light and and you want to look to the left and you're within the 30° cone you're going to see the sign and be able to read it correct so you can read it up to a th000 ft away or so correct that mean that that's new road I can read the sign is my point I read if you're stopped within the 30° if you're anywhere within the 30° grade you'll be able to see the message on that sign up to a00 sure we're clear you're going to be able to read it to read it at a th000 feet I personally can't read something at 1,000 ft the viewing angle is really around 500 to 250 ft if New Roads 3 or 400 ft way I can read the message if I'm on New Road looking West yes if you have a view of it yes you should be able to read that sign obviously okay thank got it so that now that's cleared up the purpose and the location of it would be so at this intersection which with many of us have sat at this intersection it can be long um you'll be able to see that sign from that intersection uh from the gas station as well as going eastbound um and oncoming traffic um going Westbound at that light with that site in question is uh located on block 6 uh 693 it's Lot 25 uh it's an regular shaped lot undersized lot um it's developed Reta uh uh retail store um Route 46 as many of us know is uh multi- Lanes uh Highway commercial uses um again this location we're at a Jug Handle the uh constru of the new billboard requires really no change or adjustments uh to the rest of the site um Des sign details as we talked about is a monopole two panel um the panels are 14x 48 uh feet uh viewing panels 672 Square ft sitting at a maximum height of 39 ft The Zone we're in as we discussed is the B2 Highway development District um this the Zone um as many of us know just from traversing Route 46 is a uh Commerce oriented uh Zone and the list of uses that can go there very uh extensively um permitted uses include retail restaurants uh brew pubs theaters offices medical uses auto dealerships repairs Pet Shops it's pretty extensive um when we look at this um permitted conditional uses include equipment sales repair shops gas stations Car Washers shopping centers Amusement um parlors fast food restaurants permitted accessory uses include um building mounted and freestanding signs that uh that identify on premise uses so we kind of have a a complexity here this is not a a sign that is associated with the permitted use on on on the site so we have what we um refer to as 2d1 use variances um for the the the Dual use relief as is a considered a principal uh structure secondary principal structure and then we have the D1 use relief allowed um a sign type not permitted in the zone um and for an off premise sign yeah multim message of premises sign and then coupled with that we have a D6 for the height given uh we the permitted height here is 35 again the maximum height top of the sign is 39 um so when we look at these uh variances there are a few uh inter related SE relief that se relief would be assumed within the D1 um uh use variants here we have front yard setback of three feet uh for building would be 50 um for signs uh would be 15 we have sidey yard relief setback um as we discussed the property line is about 8 in versus the 10 ft at The Jug Handle we do have um some RightWay land around that Jug Handle as we discussed just a moment ago um it's a little over 8 ft from the actual uh po post itself to the travel Lane again this is been vetted out through the dot and and it meets all their criteria as well for uh um their their regulations so jumping into the D1 use um we have what we call the medich test um four prongs to medich test which is special reasons the use um is a message board promotes the general welfare as a form of communication uh we have the courts have made it clear that this is a form of con constitutional Free Speech we also have um promoting businesses companies that we work for that uh we work with that we invest with um so when we look at special reasons um promotes inherently beneficial uses by way of hospitals education religious we just had a brief uh discussion a moment ago about working with the missal attorney for the town and and the police department for Access uh case of emergencies as well so we certainly have inherently beneficial uses um that could be utilized by this multi uh uh message board use can provide public service announcements as well as um inherently beneficial the digital technology provide added benefits of real-time alerts for the police emergency services all the above remote purpos of Landing law particularly purpose a um g h i and m we talk about the site suitability the site is particularly suited for the use by virtue of the context This Is A Highway commercial uh Corridor the site is perly suited by use of the condition to easy retrofit really requires uh no real construction here for this uh part of the property it's uh just kind of hanging out there uh by the highway the J handle um when we look at this the N do itself has determined it's a permitted location as I mentioned earlier um for this uh multi uh message board when we look at the site triangle um as we' we've discussed uh it's really tailored to pick up the traffic uh the site is on a stretch of road with clear lines of s for easy uh um readability as we just mentioned just a moment ago at those intersections at those lights you will be able to see it um the viewing lens for that I guess really my interpretation is subjective I know certain members of my family can't see three feet in front of them um so um it really is going to be I guess to that individual if they can read design but um it will be visible um you know at that intersection and and really tailored to the uh traveling lanes when we look at the neighborhood impact I believe relief can be granted without creating substantial detriment to the public functionally um there's really no traffic no noise no waste no need for water sewer no school a children no real development there's no need to bring Cherry Pickers and have these uh static signs we typically see replaced and so forth um so from a functionality standpoint I really do not see a detriment here uh we'll have small window where the sign if permitted will go up by way of the post and construction and after that it's pretty much a a hands-off operation visually the display is directed as I mentioned before towards the highways uh in the travel Lanes not not the homes uh we have the dimming apparatus as we discuss with the dashboard in the car the cell phones on on on your screens um you know they will be automatically demmed as weer to a 3% in in in the the nighttime and why during the ambient daytime 100% um so we have that adjustability from a Zone impact the relief can be granted without causing substantial detriment uh impairment to the Zone plan the project remot master plan for economic goals uh Economic Development um the use is a Commerce oriented use on a Commerce oriented Highway um this is not a residential Zone um the use is less intensive and less impactful than uses that are permitted in the zone this is like I mentioned before a hands hands off no no traffic generation there's no delivery shipments you know in that regard through what could be permitted uses in the zone when we look at the uh D6 height relief here again the application satisfies the criteria for Relief we call the Grasso test um as I mentioned all the benefits would be carried forward and the height is really necessary to effectuate the benefits of the application um as far as being seen and and the purpose of that we have um similar cases we refer to the cell phone towers uh why the cell phone towers need to be as high as they they need to be it's the functionality of of the use itself um so the relief really does relate um to the purpose of a billboard or message sign when we look the negative criteria under the gro um case law for height control we don't believe they're they're being violated at height does not create additional populations or densities which is essentially what the Grasso case law is about um there's no as I mentioned earlier traffic generation with the added height uh does not create negatively uh uh casting Shadows or effects or block Scenic views um the height relates to the structure that has um less mass than bulk than a regular building per se so when I look at height here in the context of of what we typically see in land use uh we usually deal with building massing and scale um so in that regards I don't believe the height here really is um um compatible to a building um and the height is necessary really to effectuate the intent of a message board um when we look at the other relief here the SE relief um we can look at the C relief as a C2 balancing test where the benefits of this application as a whole substantially outweigh the detriment collectively um all those benefits would carry forward as if relates to the setback relief um I believe it can be granted without impacting light air and open space uh for neighboring land uses which is typically why we have set setbacks um as far as safety measures and safety controls again uh remind the board this was out by NJ do so if there was some kind of safety concerns by way of these setbacks um it would have passed um their their threshold and test we do have um a little bit of massing as weighs the structure itself um what I like to point out on slide one of the uh believe it's a A9 exhibit A9 handout just off in the background um you'll see kind of the uh con the banners that are over the highway so you know we have um similar massing that we see day-to-day in in the public realm along the highways by way of these overpass uh flashing you know construction signs snow drive carefully ice on the road there's a a buil fairly large pole and it kind of hangs out over the road right there in 46 we also have maintenance polls and various other things telephone polls along the right of ways I don't believe this massing uh from a setback and uh perspective really is any different than what we typically see see uh on the road on the roadways today um again if there was an issue with the setbacks um that would have been flagged by NJ do our setbacks from a landy's perspective really do regulate adequate light air and open space um it's why we really have the purpos of setback and and for visual continuity um usually related to a building itself when we look at this um to conclude it is a well uh establish that Billboards benefit the public as a platform for sharing information in real time this particular um billboard is the next Generation we don't have the static we have digital um really hands off maintenance free the application has demonstrated the billboard at its location will have a minimal uh impact if any um therefore I believe the statutory criteria for Relief would be need uh is sorry is uh is met and approval would be warranted again I I'll remind the board there are two use variances here uh we have the um we have three but the D1 use variance we have two for this particular billboard is its own use has no association with the retail store currently on the site um and then we have the multi-board uh the multi messaging board uh sign here as well um and we have that height for DX um I don't believe the height is really applicable typical case law that we see um by the sheer nature of the billboard it would be a separate independent use and the the multi Message Board uh for the off- premise sign here um I think um is better efficient better use of these Billboards that we see we see quite a few of them and it's just one image for 30 days or longer um this one has the ability to to get more content and more information out again with the connectivity for Real Time alerts uh with emergency um PSAs so with that I'll conclude that though we are seeking the use variances I think this particular use U and this particular billboard um is as a pure alternative to what we've been seeing and I believe we'll see more of these in the future um with little to no detriment um that we typically associate billboards with questions do you have any more Mr you no no I have no further questions for thisness questions of this witness I have a I have a question yes you referenced the master plan and one of the benefits of this is promoting Economic Development which I think is Loosely tied to goal five um goals 1 and 11 um talk about preserving the aesthetic character of the neighborhood um H what's your interpretation of how this enhance this addresses those goals because there you there are going to be houses looking at this GI giant 40ft structure relatively close to their [Music] properties when I look at the the apartment complex behind uh 46 I think when we look at this compatibility the scale um of the structures on 46 the setbacks the way that those buildings are kind of oriented orientated and that that viewing lens I don't think it's going to be substantial detriment again we talked about in great detail um the ambient light and what we refer to commonly as the foot candles and know we call it light intrusion um that's not going to be the case with this billboard um and you know as far as that distance again we are crossing multi Lane Highway here um and I really do think when we look at this position it really is is is tailored to the uh the traveling lanes not necessarily the uh the apartment complex again behind uh massing of buildings orientated on 46 as far as reserving the character this is a a commercial Zone uh you know commercial Highway um this is not out of character I think this is a an upgrade of what we'll be seeing on our commercial corridors in the years to come so you you first of all I'm not worried about the light I was pretty convinced about that um you you addressed the the residential area to the South and just to the north of the sign there are some houses single family houses that I believe will be able to see the sign even though they can't see the lights they're going to see this giant structure so I look at that as maybe having like a a cell phone tower okay it's not going to give off light but they're going to see a giant Tower outside of their houses outside their Windows how do you what do you consider to be the impact on that neighborhood to the north I just I just Mr K I just want to clarify you're you're talking about an aesthetic element here correct go ahead not the lights I think when we look at that um it's it's it is a structure yes um the scale of the massing the size um you know at that height I would just emphasize that you know this is not a building um you know if if they're ever to be a change in Road here design we would have the the poles that hold the light the the signal lights in that regards um I know it's a little bit larger CU we actually have that 14 by 48 it's fairly high up given that uh proximity I would confidently say it would be out of your peripheral view you would have to be out there so when they're standing in their front yard or when they get out of their car in their driveway they're going to have to look up and stretch to see it I was referring like in the house okay they don't stay in their house all time right they're Property Owners they're going to walk around the yard does this contribute as the master plan would suggest that we try and do goals 1 and 11 preserving the character of that community and preserving the Aesthetics of that community so your answer before Mr D was you you thought this was commercial Z yeah that's if you consider Billboards natural elements of commercial commercial Zone yes what about the abing residential Z that's where I know you're getting at um can I just ask how tall of the building could you put up on that spot within within the we we're 4 feet over the permitted height um 35 of a building yeah so you could put a 35t tall building on that spot I believe that that's correct get a say in that get a say right but we're getting a this I'll defer to the the board planner I'm I'm that's my recollection does that sound right john 35 foot [Music] building I think the dealership's a little further off are about that certainly if the Zone was uh permitted for multi message boards the maximum height for a multi-age board under local ordinance is 45 ft we're at what we're at a 39 but so that the that's the ordinance which we can't apply which which nobody can nobody can fit is 45 ft yeah so but doesn't it so on the houses that are on the same side of the street but behind it there's a lot of greenery around those things so my guess is that they're not seeing it over or through that Greenery 6 months a year at least then even across the street there are trees that are blocking at least that one house of the three if not the two because the the the trees on there so I think that the houses do have protection from the natural forestry that's there several hundred feet away in my opinion 6 mons a year at least so the 6 months a year the other half of the year they don't that's right so glass half empty half but my my question is if someone came made an application put a 40 foot high building on this piece of property right which would need 5 ft they we have to come for a variance yeah my question to the board is would we have a problem putting a 40 foot tall building in this spot well we can't really we can't play these hypotheticals because there's so many different facts on that case but this board has in the past tried to knock down um houses or buildings that are looking down into the neighbor's yards we've had those conversations but just to [Music] not clear between bottom of the B board and the ground is what 15 I'm sorry the clearance between the bottom of the B board in the ground 19 ft yeah it's about 20 ft 25 ft yeah 25 ft yeah then plus 14 gets us up to 39t right it's yeah so it's 25 ft and 14 to the top that much Clear why do you have to have it so high is this question because there is another board that is 15 I also think the clearance plays a factor at its location Around The Jug Handle um you know for trucks and in that regards [Music] let me do [Music] this all right referring to [Music] 8 billboard is here just Mark with blue the location of the proposed billboard no it's off that site that's the retail store so it's here yep and the store is just the store to the billboard or the height of the store store is approximately 20t I believe it was what 17 it's a little less it's probably closer to 17 Okay so we've got tree covered here now how tall you say these trees mature trees 25 30 ft yeah same here same here this row yeah orientation for perspective a typical two-story house uh a Florida ceiling is about 12 ft all right so I have a person here I have a tree here there's about 15t between them or 15 there 15 ft over them it's a ways off there's visibility line it goes like this right everything's blocked behind the tree out of the distance so from here these houses these houses with these trees here this direction these houses they're all blocked by the taller trees especially these trees which are very tall correct next to the houses so everybody scream from seeing the billboard either by the building or the trees right correct and it's and and and just for I think the the board memb concern was these I think aren't necessarily all evergreen trees so there is a a small portion in in Seasons where the leaves will be off but I want to just point out that you know though AB budding zones this is several hundred feet away from those uh those those residents right and they're looking at basically black frame with a black board on correct so it doesn't matter if it's Greenery or just branches it's lost individual clutter of the gray branches whatever correct so those residents because they're more that they're about 300 ft away outside of the 200t notice they don't necessarily know about this it's published in the newspaper okay right but they didn't get anything mailed to their house till no we complied with the state I understand that the property in question is is but even if they did unless they're 30 ft tall they're not going to see over not perhaps on the summer I I might agree with you butt from all no I know that so they would some of them would gotten those okay and well I'm trying not to rely on whether or not somebody came here or not they were interested there may be a million reasons why they might be interested can't come out work obligations no I I just uh and with all I appreciate the stick figure and the scientifically measured angles there but u i i i have some concerns and and I would agree that in the spring and summer they'd probably be largely shielded that's as as we've heard that's half the year then winter time they don't come out okay perfect they'll Build a 30ft Snowman when I look when the concern though for the masing in the scale um though we are seeking a little bit of height relief on that I would I would emphasize that this is not a a building P per se and that a building um at 35 ft um I think would would would be a lot more visual um but I do think the benefits of having an immediate message out to the public um you know and and given the proximity distance I I think you know there's inherently benefici they're not going to be able to see that though right the the which I think is also a A plus if if they could see this you know message those three or four months out of the year I would certainly have more of a negative imp there are definitely some positives to this um and and again my concerns about the lighting have been laay um I I just wonder how many people in this room would want to see this outside of their house every day but I do you think there's anything that these people did buy a house next to a commercial area I would never see it so if you had that view that we've been watching in Provo Utah and someone was putting up a sign that blocked your view of mountains I get it they are living and they bought a home next to a commercial Zone I understand that but I I liken that too they got a little dirt on their clothes so then now they might as well just roll around in mud right Mr I mean this is the problem with making aesthetic decisions I I going by plan that was referenced I used to do a lot of telecommunications installations so people would come up I'd be doing these and they started asking me questions and the questions were would you Zone one of these out your window would you want something like this in your neighborhood and the answer was I had zoned seven outside my window had time and was dying for another one because my cell coverage still was terrible but you know it depends on what you're looking at I mean it's true Utah it was feeding a signal there I mean that you're it's flat to mountains and you got a billboard sticking up next to a telecommunications T that's definitely worse when but uh you're not when we talk about preserving the character of the neighborhood it is it is my belief in uh on the of that and and I'll defer to the board Planner on on his professional opinion um I believe the way I interpret that is the zone that you're in the character of that area that Corridor neighborhood being the residential are we putting uses in a residential Zone that is not aligned with the character of that that neighborhood that zone this is in a different Zone board neighborhood this neighborhood is Commercial Business um I do understand there's an impact because they're buding zones but I don't we erode the intent of preserving that Zone's character and that neighborhood's character I don't think it helps but listen you you see my point I see your point and I think we can move on let me ask you a simple question can you all I'm sorry microphone is pointed this question is can't you make it lower okay thank you can make it lower I think the critical thing is the little much uh I for what the name of it is I think you're right about 16 ft to the top of the building to the top of the existing the building that's yeah I GRE so I get you got clear CER now 45t I I'm 25 well I'm 22 ft to the 8 that's below the yeah she yeah I don't canel leave over the top of the building but the the the building is roughly the same height as the existing pylon sign that's there so in in this perspective you can see the pylon sign is at is at almost 17 feet tall and I have 5T of clearance between the top of the sign and the bottom of the structure [Music] so is that really going to matter though I think it'll change it I think gets to D's issue whatever you can do to Shield it drop it it down a couple feet is that big lower two I can have a moment to discuss this with my team sure want five minutes thank you Mr anybody need a anybody need a Part Stop I need [Music] a um Mr Wills had to go so I believe we still have [Music] seven we still have seven okay so after consultation uh with my uh Team here and my client off site we are proposing to drop the height of the billboard down to 35 making it permitted and it still works now it's just the use the it's the two uses sounds good okay any other questions by the board any members of the public have any questions of this worth this on the testimony give I just have one question to learn something goad thank you uh I just want to know on knowledge basis there is already Bo has educated you I think you know there was 3,000 ft away further west uh on the eastbound there was something same similar board that's coming up that's how is this different with that board and this board is on the other side yeah I know east and west but the subject is same well uh Mr dowy would you would say U give for instance with the shopping plaz is there you're really dealing with two audiences with the multi message sign of Home Goods mov in there so the one that was approved it would probably say something HomeGoods next Jug Handle I don't know and then this sign would say homeg Goods so many feet ahead on the right yeah I I I would say that um this is really orientated for General because of the intersection um digital Billboards at shop centers and complexes tend to orientate towards those uses that are in there maybe some more General message but this is really kind of off on its own so you can advertise for various uh commercial uses on along the corridor um and other things of that narrative but um the kind of the flip-flop and I think we were hitting it close um I know markets have changed but you'd always see kind of a McDonald's and a Burger King on the same corner or shell or an on on the same Corner they're on competing sides of the road um so you know East and West um though they are close as you mentioned the 3,000 ft um but it's it's not atypical to see um similar uses kind of uh converge close together okay um to to make sure that a targeted audience is is met okay okay so basically it's more like a complicated but you're still still on the field yeah right I would say okay okay okay then thank you any other questions you have any other Witnesses Mr I do not a further witness at this point are there any members of the public who wish to speak in opposition to the application in support of the application did you want us to please come forward and get sworn it can you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm the the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do you state your name by your last name and give us your address hi my name is Kiara Newman my last name is neew m my first name Kiara k i a r a and your address my address 130 New Road uh in [Music] pany okay what would you like to say so I'm here on behalf of Partridge Run Apartments of the ownership there I'm the property manager of that property and partage run is located on 130 new road which is perpendicular to the location the proposed location of the billboard uh we have 250 units approximately 1,000 residents and I have discussed with ownership and our our regional manager and we are all in support of the billboard and the location where it is we've uh discussed it's similar uh the lighting it's similar to what I use on my phone whereas you can't see it from a certain direction and also looking at the map you also cannot see it from our property on none of our residents would be able to see it it wouldn't interfere with any of the the units inside so we do support having the billboard there we feel that it would be helpful for the residents uh for any a community local business promotions and if there's any emergency notices new road is very busy and as I'm sure you you're aware it floods very frequently so um having some emergency notices there it we we do support it for reasons such as those thank you any questions by the board Joe you have any questions sir no questions thank you very much any other members of the public who wish speak for this application I hear none and see none you got a summation Mr on or you just want to go placed on the uh I will uh thank the board for its time and rely on the testimonies of thank you um is there a need to go into [Music] conference go into conference no okay um do I have a recommendation here uh for application why we should approve it someone give us a recommendation I'm recommending it because I think it's uh appropriate where it belongs with is ADD even added testimony by the uh property manager of the most res the biggest residential complex in the area they're not opposed to it I think they work with us and Mr kaplan's request to even lower it I think it's a great technology and I'll be voting for it thank you frame a resolution someone app i a a 100e 46 block 693 Lot number 25 Zone B-2 to Grant c/ D variance to construct a billboard sign uh 35 I think there were two conditions the landscape plan and the agreement with the town on the messaging there's the manual that they work out with down yeah apparently the township has some idea of what they want is there a second jitz thank you any discussion nor col heritz yes grani yes jitz yes kapan yes and thank you for the uh compromise pdy yes ready yesan yes thank you everyone have a nice night thank you uh quick question is there any do do you think we should make any kind of recommendation to the council about getting their arms around the flood of billboards we are likely going to see and have been seeing you know you're almost stat now oh yeah but that 3,000 ft the stat the building is St wood is almost no ceiling all the is 3,000 ft separation requirement plus you can't put them with 500 ft of a on R where tapers out so and it has to be we we we could make a recommendation to the council may or may not dos the council screwed it up when we lost the lawsuit with CVS outdoor they they thought they were going to be cute in the way they proposed where where science could be put and it ended up shot that's a reason like I'm just wondering why all the sudden we've just been hit with this no I don't think has anything to do with the pity this is much greater than right World highway I know but you know all on 287 technology forever all of a sudden 10 years ago it just I did talk to Mr L about that issue way okay and I brought it to his attention that we you guys seem to get a lot of these at the present and why you got Chris P yeah you got the you got the land you got the you know you got the the roads by the time they got you'd probably be I just I would just like to tell everybody that uh the uh May 22 meeting will be my last meeting wow really I am uh in the process of moving out of parsipany uh we had a moving truck in last week we're moving to a home that's already fully furnished so um it's a little confusing and moving it from a house where that you've been in for 53 years is not easy not easy at all we've never moved in our lives outside of when we when we first got married and moved to this house um it it I know it's going to bother me when it sinks in in a couple of weeks uh I've been doing this so long um this guy I I love him John has I I I just can't I can't even tell you all the times that he's been there and I've leaned on him and he's come through Dill hasn't been with us very long a breath of fresh air in my opinion um very like very much like I enjoyed working with his dad his dad was a great guy and uh I'm going to miss all you I'm going to miss all you and I think back to I I came across a picture of when Bob birdie left the board and and I was giving him a certificate or something and someone took a picture and I found it and you probably guys know who Bob birie was he's he goes back about 10 more was he on the board when you were yeah okay so you know uh um and you know um somebody's got to take over you need a new chairman and uh Dave moves up then you're going to need a new Vice chairman but that's something you guys are going to have to decide and I guess Loretta you'll get the uh the you're you're the first alternate right I think I am yeah I'm the first alter so you you'll move you'll move up to my you can move up to my remainder of my term then okay that's that's usually the way they do it and it it like I said it's very sad I'm going to just I don't know we'll miss you thank you what' you leave for the May 22nd speech by the way no I'm just I'm going to cry yeah b b before you leave we will get together yeah that's a good idea I I was wondering if you guys want to like meet over at the bar next next Wednesday night like about 6:00 we going to have a quick drink together or something or maybe yeah we should do that four are you okay with that I'm not asking anybody to get drunk but I I looked at the agenda it's quite a full agenda so I don't think we're to get out of here