##VIDEO ID:NhPwIDl-q-s## but you're on record all right good evening everybody announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conduct conducted in accordance with njsa 10 colon 4-6 at SEC of the New Jersey open public meeting Z Nora please call the rooll Mr bur here mrani here Mr jowi here Mr Kaplan here Mr ready pres Mr willing here we also have our board planner Mr Chadwick our board engineer Mr L man mant and our board attorney Mr Johnson here all right please stand for the FL I pledge allegiance to flag of the United States of America na indivisible liy Justice for All okay Mr attorney would you be so kind as to swear in their Mr Chad can you raise your right hand please s that any testimony that you give tonight yes right hand please you stim give tonight should be the truth the whole truth yes I do you okay all that's taken care of uh we have some resolutions to approve I'm not quite sure how we're doing this we have the first two the first first second and last one they're all the same people but the last one we might want to do separate because resolution to dismiss the so we'll do the first two 2405 and 2410 can someone please uh make a motion second J all right nor burit yes Jos yes ready yes willing yes that's it right that's it that's it okay uh application 2346 somee second burway yes Rani yes Josh yes ready yes yes okay and last application 2315 this would be the approval to dismiss Josh squits second burtz yes JT yes ready yes willing yes all right um at this uh point in the meeting is there anyone who wishes to address the board on an uh item that is not currently on tonight's agenda so we will uh move right into the applications on tonight's agenda application 244 Bon shakla and Raj tiari [Music] good evening okay can you raise your right hand please are who's going to testify just you or both of you okay great three all three okay uh you swear or affirm that any testimony that you give tonight should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes okay starting over here on my left state your name spell your last name you could put your hands down and what's your first name and you're great thank you you can be seated all okay so we are here to legalize a 6115 ft square foot patio a 35 in high retaining oall uh 12.37 squ ft stairs and then we have a little issue on impervious coverage so if you could just tell us a little bit about your application please so um when we bought this house this is a corner lot with the driveway is so back in the house so that um all the area has been taken like a driveway and then but this house has a lot of green space and for the family time we would like to build a patio so that we can enjoy the family time uh so mean apart and also to like I do understand uh so we also planted 40 privacy trees to make more Greener this house is cover with all the greenery I have some pictures I can share if you would like to uh okay are they all the same pictures on the same pict same pictures on the all right so we'll mark that A1 same thank you so you built it before knowing you needed a permit just bought his last year and we talk to our contractor he talks to the town we have our contractor as well and as for him we don't need the permit so we started building but the moment we came to know we stopped everything and uh we immediately started looking for the permission so you started the work somebody called you didn't have a permit so you stopped the work so then you went to get a permit now you're here for us to approve what you've already done so what happened since uh we have a contractor when we started we uh check with our contractor and he checked with the town that we we for the Pao we don't need the permit so we started the work but then one of the inspector came first time I believe he said that it is fine you can keep carry on and then we submitted the application then we find out okay we need to mean uh we called a inspector called and we submit the application to get this approved now we are here sir but it's completed it's uh I would say it's a patio is completed but grass and other area the where the work was there we stopped the work after that we did not do any work so you can see the pictures like it's still the unfinished area of the grass and other areas are there that your your survey shows a concrete porch next to your property line is that yours no that is not our it just shows up in my property line I don't have a space in backyard and no space for the like I would say my previous owner he do not have anything to set so we just wanted to build a small patio and the stairs so enjoy that time yeah what what is the construction of the patio is it dry L is it concrete uh it's uh uh SP P yeah are they are they growed together is just sand sand will the water go through him I have a contor he can answer but sand hold s yeah the water will see through John let me swear raise your right hand you swear the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth could you state your name spell your last name please my name is Christian my last name is Tim t i m b e you built the ctio yes and the water I put always on it see through no we do fire know like the base the B QP and the SP do and we put the P what's in between the papers between the papers is first we we di 6 in down we put the QP and the St dust leling and put the in between the pap the one who need a permit excuse me were you the one who told him he did not need a permit yeah because H you know when I have some experience of the job when the L 500 ft we need the family so and the retaining W is over the 4T I don't know if May I'm wrong but over the 4T we need a heav so the the wall is 25 in so I think the per the 4 feet is right but it's the coverage issue excuse me the the 4T high wall under 4T no permit that's correct yeah it's the coverage issue you didn't get right imperious coverage for the for the for the coverage so I know you did not calculate do do your neighbors ever get any water problems as far as you know no our house is like in the slope nobody has a water problem it's on the hill like it's a powder mill Heights Hill so nobody has a water problem and your neighbors know what's going on of course yeah yeah neighbors all know we also sent all the letters to all our neighbors even talk to our neighbors and right just behind my neighbor he said that once like it is complete they will come to have tee so yeah all neighbors like we sent it out all 37 certified letters whatever we get it the whole list we send it to everyone and we also personally yeah okay so just so you know it doesn't matter how big it is the patio it depends on well might matter but it's also the coverage so it's the amount of area that is now covered by something other than grass right yes so we're worried that the water is not going to your neighbors okay his neighbors okay any other questions anyone in the public have any questions for the applicant okay uh anyone in the public wish to speak against this application or for this application nobody's come up anyone want to make a statement yeah this is a reasonable request for the family yes get together or something like that and it's not bothering any neighbors properties and all so I'm in favor of this application 240 for Shukla and rajnish toari 40 dundale road block 15.6 L 14 Zone R-1 M recommend granting a sear to legalize a patio retaining wall and rear stairs contrary to se 43-35 column 13 second ready Mr per yes mrani yes Mr yes Kap yes Mr Patty is he here for enough of this application yeah he's here okay I know he's here here for most of it s will you hear for most of it she wants to know yeah I I heard I heard yes I'm ped yes Mr ready yes Mr willing yes okay uh the application is uh granted after the next meeting once we approve the resolution uh you're technically free to build it which you've already done so enjoy after you get your zoning permit all right did you move into prip a year ago and buy this house or were you in pcii before that so we were renting the apartment in pipen so like we are in pipen from almost 7 years but we were renting the apartment so now you're property owner we have rules on our town yes got it sure next time I will have make sure thank you all right have a good night good night all right Next Up application 2409 Mary Je Wallace 46 Berlin Road good evening welcome hi can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole great state your name SP last namey Wallace w l l c thank you all right so you are looking to construct a driveway 425 square feet retaining wall 1.5 ft uh front walk you're going to replace that with 108 Square ft and what's that going to be made out of Bri brick brick now and it'll just just New Brick okay and then a 56 square foot front Landing in stairs um you're here because of your uh I guess the fence the expansion of the there there's it's not the fence it's the expansion ofri the driveway set back the retaining wall this this one's the retaining wall I believe that's the retaining wall on the right hand side I think the zoning report talks do you put a new fence in um yes replacement fence but I went to to um the um zoning board and they gave me permission there was a a straight replacement there was no variation but uh they got a hold over here saying it was right on the property line it's still on the property line yes I I I brought that to the zoning board's attention yeah and they gave me permission and they didn't they they even said I didn't need a permit so you replace an existing pets yes sir completely same same square footage same same footprint elevation and everything else the same yep get rid of that one so it's only driveway yeah so now it's a driveway okay you want to put a retaining wall on the right hand side of your driveway right there is currently a retaining wall there made out of um railroad ties and it's um it's decaying and so the driveway it all started because the driveway needed replacing because it's it's there was Roots going under it and was cracking and I and the I also needed new front step so I said well I'm doing it just make this one project so basically I'm I'm replacing the railroad tie retaining wall with with stone I'm if you face my property the there's a garden to the right of my driveway I'm eliminating that and that's where I want the expansion I have um we have an SUV so with I I park as far to the right but if I have company or somebody's going to get in my car with me it's a little narrow to get in and out of the car plus I have I have a bad back of it diagnosed with stenosis so so removing the snow is a challenge to lift it up and over that wall by expanding it I can just push it to the side and that will help my back so the curb cut is is a curb cut on the street going to be expanded as well there was no plan to I was just going to leave the curb cut as is and then okay just use it to just wanted to make sure you didn't potentially need another variant so you're not going to widen the driveway I am I am expanding yes sir no as you go up to the street oh the curb cut no not the plan was not SP that the curb cut no we're talking couple feet appears to be a couple yeah any other questions from the board good on both sides all right uh any questions of the applicant from the public okay no come forward anyone in the public wish to speak for or against this application nobody all right statement from the board the Minimus in nature sounds like you just repair replacing some ties that need to be uh moved and cleaning up make a little easy on you uh I'll be Ved for it anyone want to make a motion application 24 col 09 Mary Gan Wes 46 bin road block 283 Lot number 13 Zone r-4 to issue or Grant C variance to construct driveway includes four food driveway expansion retaining walls front walk contrary to section 430 d11 D and section 4302 27510 second J SCH purple yes bani yes yes Tedy yes ready yes yep all right congratulations enjoy thanks for making your property look [Music] good all right and for the main event 2205 outfront media [Music] the whole company out I did uh I did Ione [Music] one your [Music] [Music] Chinese food restant Chinese food [Music] restaurant okay thanks for your patience uh Matthew Weiss price me shman and armeno on behalf of the applicant so um outfront is here today to uh propose to construct and operate a single pole double faed off premise Outdoor Advertising sign you all know it as a billboard um within the Township's B1 District um it is intended to show to interstate route 80 which is of course A well-traveled Highway um the property is leased by outfront um they currently hold a state permit issued by njp for a multi message billboard um you will see that later on and the proposed sign will be as I said constructed and operated by outfront um Billboards are not permitted in the B1 District so the applicant will make its case in favor of a D1 use variance for a non-conforming use in that District as well as a D1 use variance for a second principal use in that District um we've seen all the review letters we have one for Mr Chadwick uh dated I believe yesterday is the most recent one and we have one for Mr Lano which I think was dated April 9th which we received today um it is at block 722 Lot 2 that's 959 us46 in the township um it will be a generally what we call is a 14x 48 billboard the actual um measurements are 13 ft and 7 and 3/4 in by 47 ft and 3 in on each side um it will be 60 ft tall so I have three witnesses that I would like to present to the board um the first is John anol who is the outfront media NJ general manager um he'll provide some factual testimony for the board the second is t dwart uh of dynamic engineering who will be our engineer and then finally we will have George Williams of nishing group who is our planner um if there are no questions from the board I'd like to call Mr anel go ahead thank you do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you about to give should be the truth the whole truth that nothing about the truth I do please state your name and spell your last name please name is John antol last name a n t l okay Mr anall can you give the board the benefit of your personal background and experience please yes so again my name is John anol uh general manager for outfront media New Jersey um I have a degree in marketing from the University of South Florida I have been in the outdoor advertising business for 21 years all of with all those years with out front or its predecessor for companies um I've been the general manager in this role since 2012 here in the state of New Jersey um as my responsibilities are for my position I oversee the entire Market including all of its operations including sales and all the things that go along with that and under the application here tonight I am in charge of directing the Market's efforts for new billboard locations um if you're not familiar with out front media we are a national outdoor advertising company we are traded on the New York Stock Exchange under a symbol UT um to be a little bit more specific toward New Jersey um we've been doing business in the state of New Jersey um either as outfront or a predecessor company since the 1940s and we currently operate over 3,500 displays um 99 of which are digital similar to the application that is here before you tonight um we have been operating digital Billboards in the state of New Jersey since 2009 okay um so uh before we move on Mr Johnson we submitted um what I'm going to show the board as the first exhibit with the site plan 10 days ago would you like being a market or would you if it's submitted you don't need to Market great okay so um Mr Anal I'm going to show you an area I'm going to hand out some copies to the board as well while you look at that um we don't have them do you have them if you have I have cop for you make sure is that this yeah yes it is we have it okay we have it I have one anyone else one [Music] standing the same this yeah I just have a bigger version if anyone has trouble seeing what's on the paper good everybody good good great okay so John um what is this dep uh this aiel that you see before you is uh is the property in that we're speaking about tonight um located along 959 US Highway 46 um but obviously the uh the application before you tonight is for uh the piece of property which is adjacent to Interstate 80 which is where the sign will be located and visible too can you just reiterate for the board what out front's relationship to the site is sure uh we are a lessy of the property um as you can see from the aerial and from just being in town in general understand that that property is commercial in nature um there's currently an operating office building with multiple tenants um in in it um great okay um and what is the area and Zone like from your experience from the aial yeah it's it's business in nature it's it's commercial it's kind of industrial is in nature um as I stated it's you know it's an office complex um with multiple parking spots and uh this is kind of tucked away at the uh the edge of the property adjacent to I80 and so it is intended to show to I8 it will be showing to I8 yes okay thank you um so I mentioned earlier uh that we have or rather that out front has a permit from ngj to operate this sign is that correct that is correct so I'm going to mark that A1 this is not in the packet um so I'm going to show this to you I'm going to hand it out to everybody else do you recognize that Mr an I do recognize this yes sure there's a little more for you in this packet I think would be beneficial like what little more uh it's the that permit is old we have to renew it every year so we have proof in there that we renew it for this in in the packet being passed around the uh it consists of four pages the first two pages are the original letter that we received from the Department of Transportation in 2020 um notifying us of the approval of the permit and each year subsequent to that we have renewed that permit um with the state typically the renewals take place I believe it's in May or June they turn over in May um sorry I'm not they they they turn over in May um so the the two pages um that are following the letter are the most active or the most recent Pages indicating that that permit is still active and in the next 30 45 days we will renew this permit again so it has remained in good standing with the dot Sensi original issuance um on July 9th of 2020 okay great um having this permit what does that mean for for out from do yeah essentially um the NJ do has uh given us this permit signifying that we've met all conditions of approval from their standpoint um whether it be for Traffic Safety um or spacing or any of the other multiple criteria that they require um for placement of a billboard along an interstate highway um so we've met all those criteria 100% and we've been granted this permit accordingly okay great um and what I think you might have said this but let's just reiterate again to make sure um what are you know with with respect to safety concerns issuing of permits what do they do well they when an application is submitted they go out they do a field survey they physically not just view the property but also they ride the highway to make sure that everything that we've applied for meets all the safety concerns Andor uh various spacings from from different uh things along the highway including that of other Billboards or or unbuilt billboards with permits um and once we've met all those at 100% we're issued the permit okay um you mentioned spacing requirements let's use this as an example um you're aware that one of the requirements is that multi message Billboards need to be at least 300 sorry 3,000 linear feet apart on the same side of the highway correct that is correct if theoretically out were to attempt to apply for a billboard that is 2,99 9 ft and 6 in away from the next closest billboard would approve that no it would be denied because it doesn't meet the 3,000 it is black or white there's no gray area with the dot on an issue such as that or any issue yeah es especially with the the spacing and uh traffic safety and that's the same Highway along the same the same side of the roadway along the highway yes and it has to be showing to the same Highway correct okay so like if there were one right behind it on 46 that would be allowable as long as you can't see it on 8 as long as you can't see it on okay Route 53 in the township is not divided I'm sorry say that again Route 53 in the township is not divided okay would that 3,000 ft from a digital billboard the 3,000 ft would would be consistent however the spacing from a static billboard would differ right I know that if it's a divided highway is 3,000 ft measured on either side I'm not sure divided is part of the do criteria I believe they use limited access Highway well you don't have any there there's no issue with correct no there is no issue right it's um are you aware of the most can I can I ask a question of course is that with respect to just permanent Billboards or constructed Billboards in other words what do they take into consideration does it have to be constructed no the do reviews unbuilt permits okay as well as built so if there's a if there's a unbuilt permanent billboard within 3 3,000 ft you're out of luck for a digital billboard yes for a digital billboard okay we we just approved on 146 pretty close by that's why I'm asking yeah correct but it's not on the same highway it's not will be able to see this from 46 you'll hear testimony to that effect and that that is correct okay and just to clarify if I may do would not allow we'd have to get a separate permit to be seen from 46 there this is intended to be SE from 80 and that's what the 80 only correct correct um okay so I think we kind of hit on this but are you aware of of any nearby cboard permits along Route 80 I am not okay thank um now we also have our appone also has gone to the site to kind of map out where the Billboard's going to be and take you know simulations from the roadway Etc correct yes we have we we've been to the location uh multiple times most recently in March um and in order to really complete um the visuals for our application we brought a crane to the site um we used a panel attach that crane um at the appropriate height that's in the application before you tonight which is what excuse me which is what 60 ft 60 ft to the top um so from there we were able to use that panel to scale um out the billboard simulation which is going to be shown to you um which gives you the specific uh visibility from 80 for that billboard from both the Express and the local Lanes so we brought the crane on site we took our professionals took photos from both directions in both the express and local lanes and we're able to uh render an accurate simulation of what the billboard will look like once it is constructed at the height and at the size proposed to you before before you tonight so I'm handing you what I've marked A2 pre-marked A2 um is is this what you were just referring to yes what has been marked as A2 is the packet that I was briefly describing okay so um one of you're being handed out the the simulations now um let's wait till everyone has it before we review it but if you get call them how many pages it is thank the packet being handed out to you consists of seven pages okay so um Mr Anon why don't we walk the board through what they're going to see on each page absolutely so obviously the cover page details everybody who is involved in the the making of this packet um when the crane was on the site as well as when the photos were taken as well as the sign height and dimensions that are viewed in the uh in the each photo um the second page the first photo that you see in the uh packet um shows the crane clearly along with the panel that's been hung to indicate at the uh at the appropriate height of 60 ft and that crane was used to size and scale uh the image of the billboard um this again this is taken 750 ft traveling eastbound and if you know the road you know it's from the express lanes um heading in the East Direction okay and what's what is on the next page uh the the next page is again the same visual but from the uh what I'll refer to as the local Lanes traveling eastbound again at 750 ft away and the page after that is where we start to view the sign from the westbound Lanes um obviously there's a couple of very varations here um for for westbound both the Express and the local Lanes um because as it is currently it is what I would refer to as buried behind trees or completely blocked by trees um we have begun the process of discussing a plan to uh trim and or remove those trees with the Department of Transportation but we didn't go too far down the road because we wanted to uh be before the board first before anything was done or money was spent with the do regarding a plan for that I'm sure we're going to want to know how many trees are going to come down okay that's fair you you are up next to the wetlands are you able to get a permit to get in there our engineer will address that so what's on this next page speaking of just so you're aware there's another billboard company that can you speak to the I'm sorry there's another company that is doing business in the township and had a similar condition and the contractor mistakenly cleed out all the trees mistly cleared all the trees so can you confirm just is it a situation that happened we certainly don't want it to happen again okay it's sorry it's it's understandable I mean we would we would work with the Department of Transportation and only cut what they would allow us to cut or remove what they allow us to remove we anticipate this um this site falling under what is called a vcm or a vegetation canopy management agreement with the dot and there are very specific uh rules to what can be open for a view shed that's in there right away correct I I believe our engineer will be a to go a little bit more in depth about that because as you mentioned obviously the area is wet um and there are some things that have to be taken into consideration and and agencies that we would have to work with um obviously if the trees can't be touched at all we don't really have a viable sign for that side it just doesn't you can't see it even with leaves off you can tell how how pushed back it is so if you a onesided corre correct but if but if the if we were able to work with the dot and whoever else is involved in it and eventually have them Tre cut or come to an agreement or what that would be then you know we could obviously come back in front of the board looking to you know change the approval if that was a condition of the approval that we'd have to submit the plan that gets approved by the do and DP we'd be more than happy to to make that a condition or or come back before the board and just kind of clarify the scope of the project that would be undertaken and make sure everybody's on the same page are the trees that are potentially affected only located within the right of way no or some located outside of the RightWay I think again it might be better if an addresses this I don't want to make Mr anol Walk too far out of his exper pce well he's not even an expert witness so but John how do we approach the approval well they it would be the same way we did before you have to get a permit from in the prior case only dot but in your case it's going to be Dot and ND D but what about the the the fact that the sign might be either one sided or two well if he can't get his permit his one side is fine he doesn't really have to do anything I mean from from a construction standpoint or from just an operational standpoint in my point of view I would essentially build it for the two but only make the one side operational should I get permission so it's the same structure it would it would potenti be the same structure again if it's a condition of approval for the board that you determine if I can't get the one side cut I have to come back and change the structure reconfigure it so it is only for the one side I we're happy to deal with with that as it comes I think and initially when you presented and the reason we table this till now is there's no information on how much you would have to top the trees I think G initially Talking Top some of the trees we got to hung up with with a D right exactly that two things okay anyway the trees that you have to cut are not on your property are they they're on somebody else's property I think again sorry I think again it would be best it I I just don't want you know the engineer can address all this I I don't want to I I apologize but it would just be better if we let Mr dard address this um I also sorry before we move on very quickly unfortunately everyone has pretty soft voices if you could all it's a little tough to hear everyone when they speak if if the board members would in mind just leaning forward I think the report I can see her straining a little bit too um okay so um let's just finish up the simulation real quick please yeah so obviously the um the third to last page or the yeah is 750 ft traveling Westbound from the express lanes with uh potential tree removal and then the next page is 750 ft from the local Lanes westbound um with the existing condition of the trees has taken in March and then a simulation of what it could potentially look like with um trees removed and or cut now this these simulations with the trees cut this isn't out front out front's not committing to it looking exactly like this this is just to demonstrate what it might look like correct so this was not where we think the view shed will be it was really to show that you can still see the crane and you can see the panel and then it's scaled appropriately and that this is an accurate depiction of what it would look like if it was built if those trees did not exist obviously the viewshed and the way it would look when it is done if trees are removed is dependent on the agreement we come to with the dot and any other government agencies involved in that process and of course again the board will absolutely be able to see and review all of this before there's any final approval or billboard built um okay so let's let's talk a little bit about the idea of multim message signs um what what are some of the the flexibilities of multi sign what are some of the benefits of a multi message sign that you can explain to the board sure so um traditional billboard that's not digital there's people who have to go out there on site to do all of the installations of the advertising every time that you have to change an ad you physically have to go to the structure you have to climb the structure you have to hook up all your safety cables you got to be securely uh fixed to the structure before you do anything you got to deal with the wind the rain and every all the other elements um the biggest operational difference here is that all of the creative the copy the ad copy that's displayed on the sign is all changed and monitored remotely um so there's no need to physically be at the structure um for what is really the most common use of the billboard which is to display ad copy um from an Advertiser standpoint it's really something that allows them to be more timely and relevant with their advertising messages um they don't have to wait for material to be printed from a printer they don't have to wait for it to be shipped they don't have to wait for it to be brought out on a truck and hung on the the sign itself um it can easily be uploaded directly to the sign through a secure internet connection um and it could be displayed instantaneous they have the ability to have different ads throughout different times of the debt they can you know a restaurant can promote a breakfast lunch and dinner special at the time of day that makes sense for them they don't have to just have one consistent ad up all the time kind of letting people know where they're located um so really having that flexibility has been uh a real tremendous help for our local as well as Regional and National advertisers um in our business how how often do the messages change on the board um the proposed message the sign would change in accordance with DOT regulations of uh every eight seconds um and as this board has had other billboard applications I'm sure you've heard um that is strictly adhered to the dot does not allow scrolling flashing movement appearance of movement um they don't um allow any type of Animation um and you know it's it's something that if you violate you run the risk of losing your business license not just a permit for a location but they can they can take you out of business okay and how often um do do multim message signs like this one require maintenance by the operating company we would have scheduled maintenance approximately four times a year typically once a quarter um just for kind of your standard cleaning and things like that um there's usually nothing else that would bring us out to the site preventatively um there if there's ever an issue with the location it is monitored both by computer and by camera um remotely so if there were an issue with something that needed to be addressed or we saw that some part or piece was beginning to fail um we could proactively send our group out um to uh to you know address the issue and change out any parts that need to be changed okay great um what about uh benefits the the public the general public the public par sifting Etc um yeah so with digital Billboards another great ability for us is that we're able to provide um both Public Service messaging um to government entities to nonprofit organizations um we're we're able to um do these things without any additional cost for the organizations because there's no printing or installation the hard cost is M um so we're able to use time on the signs um to promote public goods uh for you know whether it's uh raising money for cancer research or um you know a Town Event that's coming up that um that wants to be promoted to bring people um to food trucks or something like that and so you'd be willing to enter into an agreement with the town to provide those Services Yes actually we we have uh designated protocols that we're going to be talking about so that's that's a that's a great Segway um we'll get there in about 3 seconds just want to stay on track here but thank you Mr Johnson um so I'm handing you what I pre-marked A3 Mr an and what is that um A3 is a packet that contains um examples of uh both emergency messaging um Public Service messaging and Municipal messaging uh consists of it is 14 pages including the cover and what are the sizes of these signs and this presentation sorry what are the sizes of the signs you're showing us here are they the same size as your sign great question as we go through I'll I'll confirm that for you all right everybody's got it excellent uh first section um some samples of emergency messaging obviously Amber Alerts missing persons two two of the the biggest things that uh you know Billboards would be used for get get the word out about people who have gone missing um both of the signs pictured are the same size as what is for you tonight the second section is labeled as public service advertising there are some of our uh nonprofit partners that we have throughout the state of New Jersey um Valerie fund Community Food Bank of New Jersey Boys and Girls Clubs in New Jersey and all of the pictures in that section are also the same size as the sign proposed here tonight and then the final section of the packet is Municipal announcements um as I mentioned some municipalities do events some of them just kind of welcome people to the town it's really all over the place uh the first picture is a campaign that downtown Denville runs to kind of use the the billboard a little bit more um as as almost they an Advertiser right they're they're enticing people they want people to come to downtown spend their money they want them to DME they want them to explore um and then know the the next one is from is from Stafford Township just of letting people know that there's help for them if they need um things with shopping or Pharmacy or socialization and then we had um our creative team put together just some some sample um examples of what Paran Troy Hills could use the sign for uh the first example just kind of a a welcome to type of sign letting people know where they are as they're traveling along 80 um things like volleyball registration um booking a tea time at the null Country Club and you know congratulating the the graduating class um are just some examples and these are the types of examples that other townships have used um along our digital Network as well okay all very good examples what percentage of the time that sign is on we run things like this versus advertisers so what what percentage of time that is assigned promoting these local benefits and Charities versus the businesses that you're advertising with typically it's 10 to 15% um however with with the protocols um we are going to be and I I'll just jump ahead a little bit here we are going to be setting aside time to ensure that the town has the ability to use it this is not going to be something um where we'll put it up if it's available we are going to designate time so the town has it now the town may not have something to promote and that's fine um but we work with towns to have what we call Evergreen message so if they don't have a particular event coming up um that they do have something in place um to to utilize the time the way we will be providing it to the town is they will have one 8sec display every advertising Loop so in this case it would equate to 125% of the time so of the eight advertisers running in rotation the town will be one of them what about other the the town is defined as any charitable organization within the town Town itself in this case the town getting 12 and half% of the time is strictly for the municipality of pany troit Hills okay so then the other charities in the town do they have an allocated time too they do not have an allocated time they would be allowed to use it however if the town would like us to work with them and make that part of the town's time we are happy to it depends on how the town wants to use the time that's been set aside for them as long as to be clear the town does not monetize the opportunity correct it's it's not something to be resold for a sponsorship or or something like that but obviously the town has Partnerships um good example I can give is like a food bank a local food bank maybe it's not run by the town but it's an organization that is supported by the town for the town that would be a relationship that we could take into consideration and know that we can use this on the town's time if the town would like it to be so every one of the emergency messaging the public service and the municipality those are all examples of one so if there's um if the town is running welcome to parsipany and there's an amber alert welcome to parcion comes down Amber Alert goes up in that spot no and that's what we'll talk about with protocol a yeah why don't we I appreciate all these questions you guys are anticipating what we're going to talk about but let's hand out the protocol so that they can you can kind of go through it with them before we um I think that'll make it easier for everyone to understand what's does the industry have a basic Bible that they follow all the different companies in terms of agreement with the township or is this unique to your company because it sounds familiar right John because we have two we have two or three at this point all have submitted you know documents of how they structure how how do you get contact how do we contact you that kind of thing the mechanics of it it's not an industry standard um nobody's got together and said hey here's our here's our book this is what no it's um it's still a competitive industry so I don't think we're sharing those types of things but obviously in a public setting such as this that's being you know recorded for YouTube obviously companies can see what other companies do um this is something that we've been doing like I said we've been operating Billboards in this state there's no un for so you'll have to work it out with the administration however they do correct but you believe out front probably has a competitive advantage over your competition and the signed business because of your service to the to the community I don't know if I would see it as a competitive Advantage um I think that us being as large of a company as we are being the dominant player um in our industry in this area we have a responsibility um whether it's a competitive Advantage I think doesn't matter um we have a responsibility we've been here long we've been operating in the state since the 1940s um we have no plans of going anywhere we're not we're not that type of company that's going to come in and go out so I think we have we have a responsibility it's an approval pitch well to be clear so outron does this as a public service correct that is correct and can you explain a little bit more about the intention that yeah I mean it's you know it's something we offer to our Municipal Partners this isn't um you know some some towns use it some towns don't I mean honestly it's not something that everyone either sees the benefit in or wants to utilize some towns put us to the test and good for them because that's what we want we want it to be utilized by the townships um you know we want them to have the benefit of this modern technology because it's not something that was available to in the past so the more communication you can have with your residents the better in my opinion and I just want we we'll get to the prols in two seconds I just want to be clear for Mr Johnson from a legal perspective of course this is not you know intended for leverage at all of course that is not appropriate or legal so I want to be clear that outfront does this no matter whether a town wants it or not it is a public service out front offering it's not intended to entice approval because we cannot do that and we are not understood um okay so I'm handing you um something they're all going expect because we talked a lot about it already but this is A4 a and what is that I think you can start talking so exhibit a4a which is being handed out um is titled protocol a um protocol a is our protocol involving emergent messaging so this is messaging um that is for the Township in a case of of um some type of emergency as seen by the local PD or the OEM um you know this isn't something that's like you know a traffic issue or a backup on 0 or something like that this is like you know hurricane evacuation routes this is something of a critical nature um that has to be addressed immediately um protocol a um in its Essence because there's a lot of words on the page we establish a town design along with a backup and we assign them a unique verification code um when the use is needed the town's designate reaches out um to our digital operations 24-hour hotline um and they specifically use that code to identify themselves um so they say you know where they're from they use the code and they can then request a specific message uh be shown on the displays that are in town um the team that we have under the the other end will create that message all that's being made is a phone call there's nothing they have to do have to sit in front of a computer for 20 minutes to come up with something they tell them here's what needs to be on the sign put it on the sign the team creates it and displays it on the sign now that emergency message will override any and all advertising on the sign including the town's own time it it becomes the only message on the sign it stops rotating there's no other ads going and it is there for at least one hour depending on the level of the emergency and the nature of it we would work with the town to understand how long it needs to remain there it may not be something that needs to stay the whole time it could move into rotation with other things but obviously if this is a severe emergency we're going to work with the town to make sure that it is displayed for the amount of time the town needs um so that that is protocol a okay and so now I'm handing you I'm did did that answer your question because we kind of C you off before so yeah I I apologize I just thought better at it um I'm handing what I premark as A4 B and we're going to hand this out as well um what is this I I do have a question I don't know yes sir how do you how do you coordinate if it's like a countywide or Statewide emergency with all the municipalities unfortunately unfortunately there is no apparatus for for a coordination on that level so this is this is really localized to parpan Troy Hills so you don't have a relationship with the state police or the state like office of emergency management or sorry well the state's put a lot of signs up wanting things the state does use their own messaging signs for for things of their nature but there's there's nothing Concrete in place that would provide it for the state or on a larger level beyond the municipality itself but you have these agreements with everyone with every town you have a sign in right with multiple townships yes but there's no way of coordinating all these signs to work together there's no way to coordinate we don't have an apparatus to coordinate for the towns to work together if we were approached by the state OEM and they said whatever you've got on 46 from uh from tooa all the way out to um Hackettstown if you've got the ability to put up a message about local flooding stay off the roads or something like that we would absolutely help them but there's no apparatus in place that allows them to do that in an automated way they would have to call us they would have to reach out to us but of course the state knows how to contact out front yeah this they know how to contact us absolutely yes they do okay um is so I before we move on to protocol B is there any more questions from the board on a or are there any more questions that was terrible grammar um Okay so A4 B what is this uh so a4b is protocol B which follows a bit of protocol a in that the town assigns a design um this is typically somebody either in the administration or the rec department um it really depends on the township on who they have they have a Communications professional or what have you um but somebody who can coordinate um different messaging non-emergent messaging that the town may want to use be it a townwide garage sale or some type of registration or something happening at the library or whatever that would be um the township reaches out to out front approximately two weeks before they would want a message displayed um the reason we ask for that much notice is that if we need to help design the ad we are more than welcome more than happy to um however we need a little bit of time to do that we can't always do it within you know 24 or 48 hours we might need a little lead time on that um and again that that's a service that we provide to our Municipal Partners um where they have uh access to our creative department for reasonable Design Services at 0 so I don't mean to interrupt yes sir maybe it's because I've heard this in other presentations I am not sure how this helps me decide whether or not you get your approval I for me and I could be totally wrong maybe I'm overstepping but the fact that you're doing it that's the testimony I need I could be wrong I don't want to speak for anybody else but to go through the steps of who you have to call when you have to call I'm not sure it's pertinent yes that's a good point I I understand we this is you know we're aware that parsipany is pretty aware of how this works most towns are are not to be honest with you and so you know we don't want to assume anything you might want to hear it if if you want us to move on we are happy to move on move on yeah is there is there anyone who wants to go through this or can we move forward no no move on and at I was just point out at the bottom of the page you'll see in writing what I mentioned before where the town has 12 and a half% I just have one question about this practice in general you had mentioned some towns do not take advantage they choose not to do this yes what reasons might there be to not do this I honestly don't know um so so I live in Montville um there are three digital Billboards in my town and it took two and a half years for the township to put a message on the time that they have given I don't know why um I know the administrator I knew the administrator when like it just was something that they didn't see as a tool they could use I think there was something that maybe triggered just wondering if there's something the board should consider for whether we put this in or not so I just have one followup for purposes of a potential resolution is the protocol a replacement to an actual agreement with the town or does it um is it consistent with an agreement in other words do you have written agreements with towns or you just operate under the protocol I I believe the way that we've done this in the past is the protocol is an exhibit that's um taken in as part of the application and should there be an approval then that protocol has to be adhered to if the town would prefer a separate written agreement we're more than happy to do that as well um but the way we've done it with other towns is the protocol has been accepted during the application process and so the approval the in those situations the approval the the um approval is subject to you acting within the protocol correct if if we didn't have if we came back and said no you don't get 12 a half% we're in violation of our approval understood and you know Mr Johnson of course we would we would be happy to have you specifically in a theoretical approval situation call that out if you want to make that a condition and say we have to abide by the protocols that we submitted As a3a and a3b we're working through this issue with respect to other billboard applications in terms of agreements Etc so that's why I asked the question of course yeah you know the the thing is because most towns are not used to us we don't get these are actually very good questions that we don't normally get so I appreciate it um just for that aspect because you're right it's a totally reasonable question um okay so do you have any other comments to wrap up for the board um no the only other thing I would say is our our office is in Fairfield we're right down the road um we're easily accessible to the township at any time um you know we're excited about this technology our our our clients enjoy the opportunity to be timely and relevant with their messaging and uh happy to answer any other questions if you have them thank you that's all for me yeah yeah just one quick question uh and maybe this isn't for him but I'm looking at uh that exhibit displayed there and there's that dotted line around the curv dotted line that surrounds everything what is that that is the 200t notice area that's the 200t okay thank you to use my laser pointer so I'm good the headquarters in Fairfield my office yes that is that where all the programming takes place for all the different Billboards no there's there's two levels of programming there's the local scheduling and then the physical programming is handled out of a network Operation Center in Spokane Washington so you're a national firm we are a national firm yes you're International firm we are currently International we will not be International when we divest our Canadian business in the next coming six months or so and your total inventory you said was 3500 there are 3500 displays under my management here in the state of New Jersey 99 of which are digital we we operate over 300,000 displays throughout um throughout the country including like the MTA subway system buses all that stuff that's all amazing how many are we suggesting a celebration with Pary for number 100 can't do that of course that was a joke that was not intended to be talk the person who's going to answer the questions on reducing the size and the height of the billboard as your engineer engineer and planner certainly can can address any questions you have with respect to that yes I think those would be the appropriate businesses Mr chadway were you present when you decide to reduce size yes and height I was okay the height went from 90 ft to 60 that is correct looking at your I don't know exhibit A1 a A2 the simulations yes yes you got a real good view coming east B yes there doesn't appear to be any tree cutting necessary there correct the other way is up in the air that is correct even even if you lose with d I don't think Dot's going to be an issue but I think D is could be substantial can you hear me if you lose with d okay if if DP is a Cooperative let's put it that way yes is there any reason for it to be 60 ft High when you're traveling from from a sales from a sales Point not not engineer plan there are a number of very tall vehicles coming across your view your view shed right you've got Whata four lanes two lanes plus shoulders so those 14 15t tall tractor trailers um be 15t again not a professional tractor trailer driver either um not you know those can play into the visibility of the sign the lower you go at the 60 ft we're confident in being able to clear all of those potential obstructions and have a sign that is clearly visible and sellable for our advertisers so I I believe that 60 foot in is appropriate height in this situation considering everything that we've done with the simulations that's of course from an advertising perspective you can't speak to engineering or planning no just from a visibility standpoint if I was selling it to an Advertiser 60 ft is a good thing for this for us just on the exhibits too that to my view from the local Lanes westbound the sign has good visibility without any tree removal from my this one picture I'm looking at okay local L local L West yeah but I mean the express so the local Lanes here I can see you can't see anything right that's okay so you're actually referring to the express Lan I express lanes okay that's where most of the traffic is in but that the express lane they look like that's what the trees cut cut go back that's the intention if we cut the trees go back one page yeah okay so this this is with trees cut yes if you yeah if you go toward the front one more page that'll show you the current existing conditions okay all right thank you that's what I missed any other question I assume he's finished he is yes any other questions I have I think I have a couple and and looking at at A2 both Eastbound and Westbound they're both the same distance sits from the sign they're 750 ft from the sign yes oh okay just seems like the East B will be so much further away just cuz it's you know way over on the other side of the highway I guess it's cuz it's the angle I guess I think it's an angular thing yes yeah but you know if you want to talk more about that I'm sure the engineer can address it okay and then the other question I had do you have any other do you have any other signs in precipi we do okay yes which one is yours just we handle several actually have any other digital signs in no we do not have any other digital signs in parp we we do have some traditional static Billboards in parpan yes and what would you say is the closest digital sign to parcion for us to along so the closest digital sign to Paran is going to be I believe Denville on on Route 46 in downtown right behind the and how is the size of that sign compared to what you proposed it is the same size as what is before you today I believe from the roadway it's 45 from the base it's 55 because it's a sunk down parking lot but again it's only visible to Route 46 are you talking only your signs I'm yes that was the question was the closest digital sign that I operate yes I I thought we just asking no you wouldn't know it I don't think you would know in general well depends his per his permit is tied to all the others all right but the one the one in Denver is same size but not as high and correct and not on the same road the nature of the road work me okay correct it's I believe that stretch of 46 is a two-lane each way roadway approximately 45 miles an hour maybe 50 yes just to clarify one brief point you made Mr Chadwick um regarding the do permit if there were another digital sign permitted built or not 4 500 ft away way do wouldn't tell us they just would only tell us if there's one within 3,000 ft right don't they ever a uh just a chart of where they are sorry they they have a permit run yeah they have a permit you look it up yeah you could go through that and look it up yeah it's available sure I just Mr an doesn't have that on top of his head but it is available okay any other questions no I'm good okay any questions from the public of this Witness actually no I do have I I just thought of something else I I'm I'm looking through the list of signs that are on A1 on A1 okay okay and there's there's I I no there one other sign on Route 80 that's not the full list to be clear so again the um the list provided is just a page from the total list and whether or not I mean the one that's listed on Route 80 is in towa okay then and that's and that's a per TOA I'm not I don't even know if signs you have on rude what difference does it make I want to know what the height and size are oh okay of the signs compared to this are are you saying along the entire stretch of Route 80 or are you asking for a specific Township no just in New Jersey just in the state of New Jersey put you to the test I I believe I believe we have a total of 15 structures in the state of New Jersey on I 80 1 two three four five six of which are digital okay on 80 the rest would be static so six so approximately 15 structures 30 displays six of which would be digital I believe the average the average height well the six digital ones I guess are all they all different Heights or they are it depends it depends on the location it depends on you know Topography of the roadway it depends on the the distance for visibility this is a very wide stretch of 80 if you go further to the West we have uh a backtack digital in Rock Away um which I believe is 70 ft to the top and if you go from ground level it's closer to like 90 or 100 because it's the property is sunk down so really the the the heights of the signs do vary if you go um to the east from this location you go to Wayne you'll see signs that are closer to 75 80 ft tall as you get toward Route 23 all right thank you all right there were no questions from the public so yes we are finished I believe thank you okay so um I'd like to call next uh [Music] [Music] work you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth please state your name by your last name Thiago dwart d a r t e [Music] okay so um Mr rart we first need to get you qualified as an expert witness um can you for that purpose provide the board with the benefit of your professional background and experience yes uh I graduated ruers University um uh Ruckers University with the Bachelor's of Science in civil engineering in 2011 I've been practicing in the field of uh Land Development civil engineering uh since then so just over 12 years of experience erience uh in those 12 years I've worked on residential industrial commercial projects uh and approximately 50 billboard projects similar to to what's before the board tonight uh my license is current in state of New Jersey and I have testified before numerous boards in the past including uh this board uh once uh previously and and you obviously testified before other boards you said yes uh about can you ballpark how many times uh I'm not at 100 but I think I'm 75 plus okay and you were accepted of course as an expert engineer by those boards yes were you accepted as an expert engineer by this board yes okay so I'd like to present Mr dard as an expert engineer he's qualified thank you um all right so let's get into the meat of this Thiago um what did you well did out hire you to to work on this application yes correct so my firm Dynamic engineering we prepared the survey the site plan worked with um Matt's office for the application and also assisted in developing the the exhibits that were uh provided to the board tonight and did you review the um board planner letter from Mr Chadwick as well as the board Engineers letter yes I have okay great um so let's let's go back to the aerial for a sec which is was marked uh not marked actually I apologize but it's up there behind you um can you just again for the board I the location of the property as well as where the board will be on the property sure so again the property address is 959 US Route 46 the block is uh 722 and the lot is slot two um site is outlined in white uh at the center of the sheet the site itself is approximately 7.8 Acres fully developed or the majority of the site's fully developed with a existing office building uh and off street parking area for that um office building uh the site's located in the B1 Zone and the billboard that we're proposing is also shown on that um aerial it's located on the south end of the property nearest to the right away of Interstate I80 uh the site again is unique because it's sandwiched between two two highways basically so 46 is on the North side and Interstate 80 is on the on the South Side okay great um now you said you prepared a site plan correct yes um you have that with you today yes that is part of the package I think I would just ask the board to make sure that everyone has uh the one with their revision date of 328 so we're all looking at the same thing if you look at revision number two it should say 328 on the first page on the bottom or on the on the top top right corner is ready okay so with this page site plan depicts is it zooms in on the corner of the site where the billboard is proposed uh again it is a very large overall parcel so we just really focusing on the the rear corner where the signs proposed uh the billboard is depicted uh south of the existing curve line so there's a parking area at the rear of the site we are proposing to install the column for the billboard uh approximately 9 ft from that curb line um it's a flag structure what that means is the pole is at the far end either end of the the structure typically be in the center uh but we also can move pole wherever we need it for certain conditions and what that allows us to do is drop the foundation close to the existing Disturbed area in the parking lot uh and overhang the open space um undeveloped area that is south of the curve line and also get sign closer to the the route 80 uh RightWay which is our intended target audience for the the billboard all right so um let's SK over page two that's the aerial I think we've talked about that enough and move on to page three excuse me and let's talk a little bit about the actual sign uh how it was designed and how it will operate um so can you please walk the board through on page stre recite plan the the sign detail sure so as I mentioned it's a a flag structure the sign whole column will be at the um of the picture itself the right side of the sign so it's an overhang into the open space area the proposed sign is 13 ft 7 and 3/4 in by 47 ft and 3 in um that is as you heard earlier just typically referred to as the um 14x 48 industry sign uh dimensional lead it's a little smaller why the um why the difference for the LED um sign faces they tend to be a little smaller to allow for the cabinet uh and also there's certain portional elements that have to be maintained for the sign pH okay and what is the square footage of each sign pH so each sign pH will be 6448 square ft great and the the support pole how how is that made so that'll be a steel column um and then there'll be a foundation where it get gets anchored uh in the ground the column is not designed yet that' be accounted for in final building plans that would be submitted to the building department typically uh for this size and height it could be anywhere from you know 4T diameter Pole to to 6 ft it's not usually much larger than that okay and you mentioned the um there would be a slight flag um what what does that mean and what what is the spread of the the P apart from each other so flag simply means instead of being a Center Mount uh structure the column that supports the sign face is at you know one of the extreme ends in this case the back of the sign where the sign faces are furthest apart uh uh we it's it's called The V structure the structure is 20 ft wide so 20 ft between sign faces at the rear and it's narrow down at the front of the sign and the purpose of doing that is to pitch the the sign slightly skew it from directly perpendicular to the road and that really helps to directionalize it better to the traffic East and Westbound uh versus a perpendicular sign which would not be as as directional as to to the roadway okay um so A2 the simulations I assume you heard Mr anel's testimony regarding that sure yes um those the pictures in the simulations who took those I took those okay and um so you also measure the distances that are depicted on each of these pictures I did yes uh and just to give the board some more reference on on how that all works uh as you heard we bring a crane to well out front brings a crane to the site we locate it in the correct location on site so where the sign pH will be located uh measure off the existing features in this case there's a lot of features the curve lines and everything that we can measure off of to to get it oriented in the right spot then the CR crane is raised it raises a panel of a known Dimension um and then we ride the roadways to to take the pictures at the set distances um the reason we raised the a panel of a known Dimension is that we can then have the creative arts team St the proposed sign accurately to generate you know a very accurate depiction of what the sign's going to look like uh from these various distances uh along the road and your team reviewed this and was able to confirm that the uh the graphic artist did it correctly yes correct okay um so you you already mentioned that you reviewed the uh April 9th report from Mr Lovich correct correct in that report he makes a mention of the access to the site um are you aware of um the the frontage on rout 80 yes I am can in your experience outfront or the property owner have access from Route 80 no not from Route 80 and and why is that uh as a major Interstate there's a lot of requirements and regulations where you can and can't have interchanges and access points uh in this case you can not have a driveway to a property off of off of 80 okay and does the property have access to another roadway it does which roadway is that uh so on the north side of the property on the Route 46 side there is access to Route 46 there's a existing driveway there uh and we understand it it connects to the property connects to 246 but the property does not front on rout 46 correct it does not correct okay and so how does that work so we we understand from review in the dot parcel Maps there's an additional lot between the property and the right of way uh and that property as we understand it is owned by the dot including well it it is owned by the do and so the access to the property from 46 crosses over that do crosses over do property to 46 which is dot right away okay um are we changing that access from 46 by our proposed use no no change to to access to the site okay and you're aware that the engineering report mentioned the possibility of a variance requirement regarding the lack of access from Route ad yes okay um so if sorry give me one second so um I'm just going to read you something quickly from the ml so we can clarify this for everybody um so I'm reading you uh the statute in the NL section 36 45 D 45 sorry 40 colon 55 d-36 um the board of adjustment May upon application or appeal VAR the application of section 35 and direct the issuance of a permit subject to conditions that will provide adequate access for firefighting safety and that will protect any future Street layout shown on the official map or on a general circulation plan element of the municipal master plan um do you believe that the existing access complies with that requirement as as you heard it yes I do and does out front application affect that access at all no in no way so you don't think there will be any issues regarding changing access for firefighting safety um other health and safety issues emergency vehicles Etc no no issues okay thank you um what are the uh what are the setbacks of the proposed sign so setbacks to Route um to Interstate 80 it's 31 ft and that's the Leading Edge of the sign to to the property line to the nearest sidey yard uh it's 108 uh 10 19.8 ft and then 5319 ft to the Route 46 right away okay um Mr you've heard Mr anel talk a little bit briefly about um the do requirements of the sign um and he said um the sign will not move rotate use flashing lights or appear to be animated um the way you've designed it is that the intention as you understand it that is the intention correct that it will comply with that requirement comply with the do requir I apologize I asked that an odd way I set you up to be confused um okay so um let's get into the lighting a little bit um how does the lighting of this sign work so as I'm sure the word is familiar um as a LED sign unlike a traditional static sign there's no vinyl copy there's no paper there's no anything the the messages that are displayed on the billboard are from a screen which is created by various LED modules a fix to the steel structure which is the Billboard structure um the the LED modules they contain various hundreds thousands of red green and blue diodes uh LED diodes they illuminate and in various combinations create any color necessary to achieve whatever image is being displayed uh very similar in a way to cell phones TV screens computer screens um that it's you know there's no limits what can be displayed um the light levels for the LED they are I I'd say they just limited impact um to any of the surrounding areas um and the reason for that is it's a constant constantly monitored um light level so on a cloudy day there's ambient light meter on the structure that adjusts the the light levels or brightness of the screen uh on a sunny day you need the screen to be at its maximum power so that you can overcome the daytime condition of ambient light uh to see the message at night time you don't need that full power um setting so it automatically dims down to a industry standard level that is acceptable um won't be too bright there won't be any glare associated with it the and again it's a constantly monitored so on an overcast day you also don't need that same power level so it throttles the the power down um and there's fail safes as far as the as far as the ambient light levels and the time day so it's it's not going to uh be tricked if for whatever reason the the light meter gets blocked or if there's any sort of uh fail safe in that regard so if somebody were to I don't know how they do this right but like let's pretend someone can fly and they and they show they shown a light right on the sensor it would be aware you're saying that it's not the appropriate time of day for that amount of light correct so yeah at night say it's it's reading its daytime but it's actually nighttime uh the sign would adjust knowing that it's you know call it midnight we're not going to go full power right now there's there's fail saves built into the system to to prevent that um okay um now let's move on to I think the the question of the night um you heard all the testimony from Mr antel about possible tree cut tree cutting sure um and what is the intention there so quickly before we even touch on that on the site plan uh around the area uh well adjacent to the area where the the sign column is being proposed uh you'll note there's lines there that are uh depicting limits of a a ditch a drainage ditch that was flagged by a Wetlands consultant they went out and flagged it with the intention of identifying if it is a wetlands area if it is regulated by the DP um and then we have submitted a plan to the DP for a letter of interpretation to verify or to to confirm if that is in fact the wetlands area and what the associated buffers would be with that so the areas flaged as wa so everything shown on the sheet is in fact confirmed by the DP de to be a drainage ditch and a drainage ditch in the dp's ter regulations does not have a buffer uh it's an ordinary resource value water body water force uh so there is no buffer so the design putter that is proposed to be between the that that line the wetlands line which in this cases of drain dis line and the curb is not a regulated buffer area so you don't need a d permit to build the base of the sun correct good not do you have the youri in hand we could provide correspondence on that we ended up um who did I talk to that was in charge it was it with you right I'm notw the the environmentalist who did the what the The Firm who did the the flagging for yeah it was the bo [Music] right and she wasn't sure whether or not you had your Loi yeah we do we do not have an Loi you don't have it yet we do but you have a classification we have written correspondence from the DP confirming that this is a drain gave that and we can of course provide that if the board wants to see it and the whole idea of cutting trees down in that so open State what do they call ditch S I guess they call S correct yeah um you don't know so it's not a regulated I can say that to the east of the site so that's where we're focused with the right so as you heard the the East westbound Facing East sign which is the one on on the east side so that's facing the westbound traffic that's the one Bas that is blocked by the existing trees that area of the site there is pockets of wetlands in this area so yes any tree cutting tree clearing uh would be subject not only to the do's review but also to D's review um and that basically is where this call it uh projection of the the lot line um so basically if you were to just draw a line there from the north South line connect that to the RightWay anything on the west side of that is the drainage ditch which is not a regulated buffer area or wetlands area in the DP eyes but everything to the east of that is flagged as as Wetlands it does have buffers and the DP is protective of those areas right and you don't know at this point uh the outcome right what they would not allow or not allow uh in my experience the DP has allowed tree topping uh cutting the trees for specified Heights uh in Wetlands areas and wetlands transition areas uh because the topping of those trees doesn't affect the the overall health of the tree it's your tree will continue to grow uh and then you'll just have to you know every so often you'll have to go back out and cut it again so ju just uh I haven't asked this question before but why that location for the sign Mo versus moving it farther west on the property as you just heard the do's requirements in the spacing between permits kind of sets the site sets the sign where it has to be to to pull that permit from the do because there's so if I move it digital up the street I I believe there are unbuilt permits right on the border on each side so it has to be in that spot to be valid under the DOT requirements and thank you yes and there's also an onramp nearby yeah a what there is an on-ramp nearby which which perm has to be you know 500 away from the roadway widening are you also the person to testify that there will be no uh no light bothering any Residential Properties yes yes I am and are you going to say that um based on the sign location what's being proposed the 14x 48 industry sign yes there will be no impacts of flighting on residential proper only residential that's shown on the top of that is that residential right there to to the north of the property yes that is and they will not be affected at all correct they will not be the rear of the sign faces to the north so anybody looking at the sign from the north will just see the back of the sign and due to the LED again it's it's a very directional technology so it cuts off there's no that go behind the sign to me that's the real question that's on on Wick so the bottom left corner there's an R2 Zone it looks like there's a house there yes there is they're not going to be able to see that sign they won't have any impacts due to the lighting will they be able to see the sign I think that's a question for the planner heat okay yeah yeah I just don't know about this [Music] uh so regarding the tree cutting of course aside from all the D stuff would work on the vcm with B correct yes correct and And to clarify beyond the the property limits the the Alfred will not be allowed to to cut trees on anyone else's property so it would either be approval from D just in general for anything in the wetlands area or buffer area uh approval from the dot to do any trimming or or removals within the Dos right away and then again uh only within the property limits would they be able to remove any trees subject to everyone else's approval and that's what you're depicting on your clearing picture would only be trees removed on your property yes correct and the intent of any tree removal or tree clearing is not to just clearcut it's really just to open up enough envelope so that the sign is visible versus what you see in the other um simulations which is is totally blocked by the the [Music] trees all um I just want to make sure before I move on everyone has asked their questions about that topic of course come back and got more but um okay so are there are there any Cy plank concerts regarding this uh application no no concerns again there's no changes to the site access no changes to the parking configuration we're not removing any parking spaces we're not uh really proposing any any changes on site at all other than dropping the column in that grass area and then uh bringing power to it to to illuminate the sign um does it require I mean you heard this from Mr anel but just to reiterate does it require a lot of site visits no in our experience again you you heard the testimony quarterly uh visits just for regular maintenance uh very much less uh traffic anticipated compared to a typical static uh sign that you have to have someone out there physically changing the message uh any drainage issues no no drainage issues storm water no no impact um impervious coverage there'll be a small increase it's really just the base of the sign so less than 25t square square foot difference really is anticipated what about sewer concerns no no impacts or changes to the Sewer Demand on the site and any other traditional site plan concerns that you could think of no I think I think I hit them all okay um any other comments you have for the board no happy to answer any any other questions okay no further questions for me any other questions from the board um question uh you heard the board was concerned about the the removal of trees uh we also have some the plans show these Wetland lines where the sign is supposed to be and all that do you have a survey to support any of this information we can we can provide that to you okay well that's required by State Statute you're not supposed to submit a site plan application without the signed and sealed survey yeah I'm pretty sure I believe the survey was submitted with our we don't have it I I apologize but if either that was an oversight or I don't know what happened but I'm very sorry we Does it show the trees that the board has been asking about it shows trees yes and it shows all the wet lines liit that we like all right than we will we will definitely make sure to re if there was an oversight on our part I apologize and we'll make sure you have that okay thank you any other questions questions from the public for this witness all right you can bring your next witness okay Mr [Music] Williams okay do you swear that the testimony that you're about to give show be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I most certainly do uh state your name SP last good evening Commissioners my name is George we Williams Williams with an s w l l i a Ms uh principal of the planning consultency Monclair located at 105 grow Street Suite number 3 and4 se you can thank you okay Mr Williams I think you know the spiel let's get you uh let's get you qualified as an expert so can you please provide for the board for that purpose the benefit of your professional background and experience certainly again good evening Commissioners my um licensed by the State Board of Professional planners in New Jersey nationally certified by the American Institute of certified planners I completed my Graduate Studies in U City and Regional planning at Rucker's graduate school now known as the blousing school just to date myself a little bit um my primary practic is in land use community and economic development but my firm and I also prepare Master plans zoning ordinances a lot of Redevelopment plans and Civic engagement I have been practicing for a little over 30 years now with a primary focus in those areas and I've appeared before numerous lus boards throughout the state of New Jersey but this will be my first time before this August board I have appeared uh as an expert witness on behalf of Outdoor Advertising Signs for ofm on many an occasion uh and last but not least I have served as a board planner currently in Hoboken in Bloomfield in West Orange my firm and other municipalities and I have volunteered on my hometown Z zoning board with Justice Mon oh if I miss outro media correct yes thank you um I have no F questions I'd like to submit Mr Williams as an expert in plan he's qualified thank you yeah good thank you okay uh Mr Williams did front hire you to work on this application yes they did and what did they hire you for uh to serve as an expert planner in support of the application before this board de evening okay and what what did you review um and what work did you do in connection with that um that work certainly we approach this application the way we approach just about every land use application because no matter the land use the process is the same we begin with a review of the local land use documents in this case your master plan the Land Development ordinance all that in the context of the municipal land use law uh we reviewed the site plan site plan application before you this evening and I and my team have visited visited visited the site on several occasions uh most of those occasions with the entire outfront media team for site visits and crane tests additionally I did review the case law and planning literature and support of this application and of course I had an opportunity to review your board professionals uh reports uh Mr Chadwick as mentioned earlier has submitted a several uh versions of his report the most recent I believe dated April 16th of this year there was also a water review memo dated February 15th of last year and we received your board Engineers uh application the review dated uh the 9th and we got that today great okay um so please uh walk the board through your planning overview for the subject land use certainly I I'll I'll preface my planning analysis by just giving a very brief introduction you've already heard a fair amount of testimony from Mr antel uh our uh civil engineer I'll try not to be redundant but just for the record this is an application for an outdoor advertising sign uh and a D1 use varen is requested required for that use because it's not uh expressly permitted in uh this Zone district and we need a one for second principal use as well that is correct uh the property commonly referred as to as 959k 46 and identified in your Municipal tax records is block 722 Lot number two again it's in the Township's Highway commercial District uh or B1 Zone District it's a relatively large and irregularly shaped lot as you heard from our civil engineer uh there is a uh development on the site in the form of an office building A multi-story office building that is uh tenanted and has an expansive parking lot we will be citing the pole if approved uh in the location mentioned by our um the civil engineer um as mentioned the height is proposed at 60 uh feet and the um we think submit to the board that's an appropriate height for this sign at this location and what is the size of the proposed sign just reiterate uh as mentioned earlier um thir 14 by 48 with an actual size being more like 13. uh 7 and 47 by3 in thank you okay what are the um General let's say General planning issues involved in this application uh beginning with the Advent or benefits of a Led Led formatted uh outdoor advertising as opposed to static I won't repeat everything because Mr anall went through those benefits generally speaking uh fewer trips to the site for maintenance as opposed to the more traditional static board but from a planning perspective and I know you hear this from uh your experience with applications there is a benefit of the ability to uh offer multi messages for the clients but also the public benefit of PSAs Mr Anto went through the protocols for that I would also add from a planning perspective that it has been supported by the literature that this format makes for a more controlled lighting for the sign and also makes the sign typically more legible conspicuous and readable in terms of the impact generally on a community from a planning perspective and I will go through the crane test results with you in a moment I would submit that the sign is very appropriate for the site will have no negative impact on the surrounding Community but is appropriately cited to uh effectuate the purpose of the sign which is to convey information about Commerce to the uh motoring uh population okay um now my understanding is that you prepared an exhibit which if you don't mind hand me one that I can Mark um will be A5 and we could just hand those [Music] out while the board is I mean while the board while Paul is handing these out can you please uh explain to the board what they're going to be looking at certainly uh Commissioners this is a low Tech exhibit it is basically a capture of images from uh your land use documents with some overlays from my team and the remainder of the images are uh photos that were captured by my team myself during uh the most recent um crane test okay um and how many pages is it 12 why don't we um run through it for the board so they understand what they're looking at certainly uh the first several images are just foundational they just kind of establish where the sign is located in the context of uh precipitate so slide number two exhibit one is an aerial map of 959 uh Route 46 it is identifying our site both with a label Mark site and it is highlighted in the yellow uh highlighting color again you can see the site is very irregularly shaped lot uh with the largest or widest portion along Route 80 and a narrowest portion uh close to Route 46 slide three is a similar aerial this time our site is uh indicated with the bold black border uh just indicating that we are in the B1 Zone District as captured in your board professional memos slide number four is perhaps the best place for me to pause PA for a second and take the description of the crane test methodology a bit further so you heard testimony from both of our prior witnesses that outfront media uh traditionally uh conducts a crane test for a variety of reasons Mr anall spoke about the uh benefit of a crane test to create the simulations that are before you so that it is uh possible to speak to the clients about um how this would work for for the um their promotion of services from a planning perspective a bit different from Mr dart's perspective we use it and we appreciate outfront media's tradition to identify um areas that may be considered sensitive and to ask answer I believe is uh one of the commissioner questions about will the sign impact perhaps residential uh areas so on slide four with that being said and you heard the methodology crane lists a uh um pre uh conceived panel that can be seen from a distance and that panel is used to do the simulations and you were there on the day of the crane test I was okay thanks you go slide four identifies with the yellow uh bullets a number of locations that we visited based on a couple of uh reasons first and foremost before we begin our site visit we identify um areas that are zone for residential or obviously have residential structures we also received input about other areas that would be advisable for us to visit and so we visited each of those sites the site engineer in addition to visiting these sites with my team actually drives the highway as well and takes videos um site engine you mean Mr Dart I do yes Mr Dart um and all the photos that you're about to show the board did you take these pictures yourself I did I Andor my team member great but they people who work for you are used correct okay um so why don't we start with this next the picture on the next page all right so slide four again the yellow dots are um the specific areas we targeted but we drove from a much larger area and a proposed sign is labeled uh on that slide slide number five um just shows what that panel or a portion of that panel that is uh suspended from the crane looks like and then a picture from that panel using drone uh imagery looking back towards Route [Music] 46 We Begin and again those yellow bullets uh correspond with the images I'm about to show you now uh slide number six is taken from uh seven Gordon Circle uh and we walked between these units to get a clear view of where the sign is located uh and that red box is just to draw your attention to where the billboard or that sign is actually located uh this site is let me just read this carefully 900 ft away from the proposed sign uh which would tell you a little bit about why it's so hard to see slide number seven and this is the sorry sorry with six what's the angle of you know the V here so the V from here from each of these uh locations you'll be looking at the back of the V to the extent you can see it you would only see the uh back of the V which Mr dwarte testified is not illuminated I believe it's black so no impact from lighting that's like the open part of that's correct y the LED faces are not facing in this that is correct nor is there any spill so what's on slide number seven slide number seven was just again our attempt to be as transparent as possible uh when you look at six you I could not find the billboard even even though I knew exactly where it was slide number seven uh magnifies that um view significantly and there you can barely make out the panel uh and I would just note that this was taken in March where uh the foliage was almost non-existent but the tree line and the distance uh really oisc the view of the back of the V slide number eight uh now we've dispensed with the close-up we're only using the magnified version again this taken from Albert Court uh and again you can't see the panel the tree line in this case both Evergreen and deciduous uh really obis scates the view of the P before we move on um just to reiterate if let's say the treade disappear this is behind the sign that's correct great thank you yep and again that's worth repeating so thank you for that um because the back of the V is of course not illuminated Mr chairperson uh and there's no spillage from the LED panels uh slide number sign slide number nine very similar this is taken from 86 Crown Point uh and this is further away a different tree line but these deciduous trees still block the view of the sign panel uh and even with it being magnified uh you cannot discern the sign getting to the end commissioner thank you for your patience this is taken from 169 crown Point Road and again a considerable distance away from uh the sign and even when magnified it's almost impossible to identify the crane and panel last but not least slides number 11 and 12 uh 11 is 140 South brevick Road sorry uh th 1700 ft away from the sign uh and when magnified again uh almost impossible to see the sign same with 129 South bwick also 1,700 feet away and last but not least 13 slide 13 at Cameron dog park uh which is also 1500 ft away there is no uh visibility of the sign thank you okay so given all of that set up um please walk the board through the general framework for we mentioned two D1 variants that we would need one for the prohibitive use because billboards are not prohib sorry the are prohibited in this Zone and one for the second principali on the property right um so let's let's walk through the D1 requirements and and I apologize up front to the board I understand that not only are you familiar with D1 variances but you're familiar with your Advertising Signs that require the D1 but for the record as this board knows for the granting of a D1 use ference uh the applicant is required to show two things first the affirmative criteria often known as the special reasons those special reasons are typically um the use is inherently beneficial uh that the purposes of zoning would be Advanced if you approve our application that the site is particularly suitable for the proposed use in this case an outdoor advertising sign and last but not least if you were to deny our application that would constitute an undue hardship for the applicant as this board knows that's all balanced with a negative criteria the negative criteria consists of a two prong test the first prong is that if you were to Grant a relief there would be no substantial detriment to the public good the second prong is if you were to grant our relief there would be no substantial impairment to the Zone plan or zoning ordinance uh in my professional opinion based on my analysis of this application uh all the uh documents are made part of it I I'm comfortable that there are sufficient proofs for this D1 use variance I'll begin with the purposes of zoning according to 40 col 55 d-2 the first purpose of zoning is to encourage Municipal action to guide the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner which will promote the health safety morals and general welfare uh that may sound in congruous but from my experience working with Outdoor Advertising Signs particularly those with uh the LED capacity in my opinion you would be uh advancing that purpose because of the LED format's ability to do PSAs and promote other uh public purpose messages subsection G to provide sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of agricultural residential recreational commercial and Industrial uses and open space both public and private according to their respective environmental requirements in order to meet the need of all New Jersey citizens you heard testimony from Mr Duarte our civil engineer that um if you were to Grant this relief it would be an appropriate environment for this use and it's buildout from a planning perspective uh I often submit to boards that it is an appropriate environment for Outdoor Advertising Signs when they are in Highway zones or Highway commercial zones and or whenever they are approximate to a major highway like I 80 finally subsection I to promote a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangement Commissioners uh it's my testimony that if you were approve this application you would Advance subsection ey primarily because of the modern build out or build quality of the monopo sign with the to uh the V shaped LED sign uh configuration but more importantly the testimony offered by our civil engineer in terms of his sensitivity to the environment and site layout or site location for the proposed sign so that's good Civic design in my opinion that would Advance subsection I of the purposes of zoning finally Commissioners it's been held that a special reason may include the advancement of a state policy uh and there's a court case and fuzo vely that discusses this in my opinion if you were to Grant relief you would also Advance the state policy for roadside sign control and Outdoor Advertising act which suggests a need for a balanced uh control to regulate roadside signs and Outdoor Advertising to address technological advancements like this one of the outdoor advertising industry promote the scenic beauty of the state provide the safety and convenience of the public and the need to stimulate economic commercial activity within the state of New Jersey uh you heard from two of our prior Witnesses this sign is intended to do each of those things certainly to uh Advance the technology that's part of the LED signage um to promote uh Commerce which is the uh intent and purpose of Outdoor Advertising Signs uh and to provide for safety and convenience again limiting the number of trips to the site and making signs through technology more readable legible and conspicuous in terms of particular suitability there are are a number of cases that discuss this uh I'll focus on a himy case and it speaks to why this site is particularly suitable for this use and you've heard testimony from both of our prior Witnesses it's parly suitable for this use because of its proximity to uh Route 80 and the visibility to the motoring uh population on Route 80 more importantly the state permit for which there is a rigorous review suggests that this site is appropriate for the proposed use and I think that Advance or I submit that advances um the himage um uh guidelines for uh site suitability in terms of the negative criteria the first prong there is no substantial detriment to the public good I base that opinion on our a number of factors but most certainly on the crane test uh practice that we conducted which showed that there'd be no negative imp impact of the proposed LED signage on the surrounding neighborhood uh focus of the LED panels is really targeted specifically to the route 80 motorist and the back of the sign is not illuminated and more importantly we looked at all the sensitive quote unquote areas and none of those areas would be negatively impacted by uh the proposed sign if you were to approve our application the second prong is for no substantial imperative Zone plan we looked at your your master plan uh and found no impairment to your plan in fact in our opinion there may be uh several there would be several goals and objectives that would be Advanced if you were to approve our application goal number five is to preserve and enhance the Township's retail commercial corporate research and professional office areas again the purpose of the billboard outo advertising sign is to do exactly that it is to Spur Commerce and by sharing information about your local businesses that would be achieved uh there are a couple of other uh goals and objectives uh proposed future land uses business Regional commercial um it speaks to the need to um support and Advance those uses and not being redundant but the billboard would certainly AFF effectuate those goals in terms of the other D1 use variant the arguments would be be exactly the same the only thing I would offer in addition is that it has been my experience and the industry standard that uh typically land use codes speak to multiple principal users on a single lot thinking about structures and intensity and my experience having a uh outdoor advertising sign on a lot that contains a principal use like this one does another office building rather the two uh do not conflict there's no uh over um intensification of the site you heard testimony already from our site engineer that in point of fact the LED format reduces the number of trips to the site and again it's not a structure or a building rather it's a sign and so while technically another principle use it doesn't function like another principle use okay one other thing um you said you reviewed the uh board planner and Engineers letters I did uh and you heard Mr dart's testimony of course yes um so you heard Mr Dart and I speak a little bit about um the board Engineers comment regarding the possibility of a variance from section 35 of theal lands law yes um and you also heard Mr dwart testify that under section 36 which which follows section 35 and talks about uh the possible granting of variance from section 35 requirements um that he does not believe it would you know it it would meet the requirements under section 36 correct I did um Do You Believe well sorry let me back up all the um all those requirments are already present on the site in the current condition correct correct so in your opinion as a professional planner do you believe that that variance would be necessary given that situation no and why is that so under the sections of the statute mentioned by uh Council and our site engineer I I referred to the same Desk Reference uh that Mr Weiss did the Cox book um there is a bit of discussion about why it's not necessary and I'll preface my comments by saying it's not a typical variant it's not the typical C1 or C2 variant it's called a planning variance and if you indulge me a bit I'll just refer to my notes from uh my review of planning variances under 35 entailing practical difficulty or unnecessary hardship or where the circumstances of the case do not require the structure to be related to the street the board of adjustment May upon application or appeal vary the application so if this board agrees with uh what you see every day at the site what you've heard via testimony from our um site engineer then you may uh off you may use your authority to Grant the planning variance uh the court went on to say and I quote D direct the issuance of a permit subject to the conditions that will provide adequate access for firefighting equipment ambulances and other emergency V Vehicles necessary for the protection of health and safety and will protect any future Street layout shown on the official map or on a general circulation plan element of the municipal master plan I believe that's the section that uh Council mentioned earlier I would just take one last uh make one last comment in terms of the uh case law available for this subject and the first one that I think is perhaps most uh appropriate is klingman the uh lman and the court pointed out in that court case that the purpose of this kind of Regulation is to assure adequate access to every structure for emergency vehicles necessary to protect again health safety and Welfare and they continued and I quote this is accomplished by requiring a budding Lots in front of the specified kinds of streets suitably improved or their Improvement guaranteed before permit May issue the court went on to say that the street Frontage requirements could be dispending with when provided the adequate access for emergency vehicles is destroyed by some lesser means of access which will also protect any future Street layout shown on the official map and that's why Mr D's comment about the uh historic usage of this site and historic access to these vehicles was so important in my opinion we meet that burden okay and so let's look at this two ways just to wrap up one is again all of this is already present on the site correct correct and what we're doing is not affecting any of that at all so would would you agree that we wouldn't even need that variance it must already exist correct um but let's say the board is asking for proof on that anyway you also believe that that we can meet that burden based on everything I just said yes that is correct okay thank you is there anything else you would like to add on this on this application uh I don't think so I think uh in my opinion the proofs are met for both uh the D1 use variant the D1 for two principal uses on a single lot and for the planning variant thank you I have no further questions for is there an easement to 46 from this law uh so we I apologize um since we just receed the engineering letter we weren't aware this was an issue um we imagine there there has to be how else could they you know have this it's a DOT do owns lot one so we will get that for you and provide it that could be a condition of approval I can't imagine that there isn't I mean how would they have built it you know it has to be there so I have not seen it but we will get it and we will and again if the board wants to make that a condition we can certainly Prov that I'm sure there is I think has to beog what would be this would be a very odd situation I think if they were not legal access there do you consider Billboards inherently been beneficial I'm glad you brought that up um my professional answer will be they are not under the municipal land use law deemed inherently beneficial but there is a running conversation in the industry about um that consideration only because of their ability to provide all those public benefit uh services and if this Township like other townships as someone testified earlier decided not to um accept you know this the emergency messages whatever would it be inherently beneficial no and that's why that conversation is ongoing as technology improves um my testimony would be that the special reasons would be um the promotion of purposes of zoning particular suitability um would be my my suggest well plus even if a town chose not to take advantage of it it would still be the ability for nonprofits to correct right and uh you heard Mr an testimony that sorry that was way too fast by apologize you heard Mr anel's testimony that out does work with those types of organizations all the time yes I did okay in A5 uh number 11 page 11 I just want to confirm that the house right there that has the blue recycling bin out will not see the sign in winter at night Mr chairman which slide are you looking at 11 11 yeah that is correct Mr jman so at night with no leaves they will not see that sign that is angled towards that house correct and there's a couple of reasons right first of all the distance is at 1,700 uh feet there are some changes in elevation you've got the tree line uh so in my opinion they would not see the sign even in these uh foliage conditions is that house a little bit below the grade it is that's that's any other questions from the board okay any questions from the public of this witness okay no one's come forward okay so um thank you commission thanks Mr Williams yes just sum up I'll make it quick the board has heard a bunch of these I think you know what I'm going to say but you know um so uh I sincerely do appreciate like I said earlier uh we got a lot of questions that we don't normally get because this board is so experienced with Billboards and I very much appreciate that because you know these were great questions that I hadn't considered and that's always good to get to be able to open up new avenues of consideration for this kind of thing I thought your presentation and the handouts are excellent thank you I really appreciate that um out works very hard at making sure you know you heard Mr Anal that they are the especially in this market they are the leader and you know they want to present us such so um I think we're very appreciative to hear that from you Mr um again just to wrap up outfront proposes to construct a uh what we're going to call a 14x 48 um outra advertising sign of course it's actually slightly smaller due to the size of the LED panels um at a height of 60 fet from the grade of the property at block 7.2 blot 2 um it's going to show only to Route 80 that's what the DOT permit requires um if again as I mentioned if it were going to show to 46 we would have to go through a whole another process that we did not do and that is not the intention um it cannot and will not show to Route 46 only Route 80 um of course you know we talked a lot about the tree cutting that will be sorted out at a later date again we will make sure the board sees every final you know every final consideration from do and de on that front um where there's a condition whether we need to come back to amend the approval etc etc if if the board is so kind as a grant one etc etc we will make sure the board is with us every step of the way on that um and how do you propose to accomplish that yeah I think what makes the most sense um Mr Johnson is would be that the condition be that we get um the vcm approvals and whatever approvals from DP are required and that way if we can't get them of course we would have to come back to the board to amend the approval and if we do get them we would submit them to yourself in the board everyone could review and and make sure that we meet the conditions of the approval so you're asking then for permission to to for the for the variance yes subject to you getting the approvals that you are seeking from both the D and the dot and then coming back again for further final approval by this board before you actually construct well what I'm saying is you know if we meet the conditions then conditions being D and do approval right for sorry yeah you got it yeah um for the tree cutting right then I think if we meet the conditions um unless I'm mistaken we you know we can just go forward correct as long as we submitted all that to the board Mr Johnson their their requirements on the tree cutting and that might be different than ours so could that be possible that that's my concern that you heard concern from this board about tree cutting and they and they haven't been presented with a tree cutting plan we have not right and uh we you know you mentioned at the beginning you were concerned about another uh billboard oh operator cutting trees without approval certainly we will we would not do that um and so you know if the board is concerned that the do town for approval if if the board is concerned that the dot approval does not comply with the type of tree cutting the township would require then certainly like I said we can you know we can come back and we can discuss that we we haven't seen a tree cutting plan I I cannot uh in conscious what what we saying Mr Thomson is that would be one of the uh uh qualifiers of approval in my opinion that we have to see that before we give final approval of yes I I think that makes the most sense we just didn't want to hold things up waiting for that approval I understand that you made the decision to come here first rather than go to the do and the D first but you then put this board in a position with potentially approving this without having that information well that's why I would say I think a condition makes most sense because we don't want to put you in a position where you're concerned that were you know kind of going around you um the board should get final say this is in your town so we D dot with bcms does like to have you know some kind of local approval before they move forward it's not required under the statute but it is I would say heavily preferred um I worked for a number of years for DOT as an assist sorry as a deputy attorney general so I'm you know I can I can tell you from my experience that they heavily prefer that we do it in this order um but again however the board would prefer this billboard will be in your town on your street on your on property in in the town and so you like I said if you want us to come back and show you it talk about it make sure that you agree with the plan or you want to amend it as long as of course it wouldn't violate what to is requiring um we are happy to do that we want to make you would be okay with that type of condition which would require you to come back here to discuss the tree removal I just got a nod from Mr Anal to confirm that yes so do we vote on it as a condition as a condition yeah they have to come back and then if we didn't like the tree cutting plan we could deny it you could amend the plan as long as it doesn't violate you just you can't obviously violate something do is required understood yeah but do we have an out is what my question is you do you could either amend it or you could say this isn't going to work so theoretically your options are we we'll do we talked about this earlier the one face you go to the one side yeah do isn't going to have require you guys are going there and asking to cut some trees down I I'm just you know you're right but I don't want you made an argument it doesn't exist I I don't want to you know I don't want to put I don't want to say something and then something you never know Mr Chadwick something insane Could Happen be that one up this from my perspective too on the I the 60 foot thing so right now our concern here is for pipany not looking like the Las Vegas Strip okay and and we're getting up I mean out front this a wonderful presentation you guys did a great job a great company okay thank you uh but okay the 60 ft okay we haven't discussed a lot but that's that's the professional testimony right now is that the minimum requirement that they would have to meet their viability of that sign in that location my I I don't want to speak for the witnesses um my understanding and they can tell me if they disagree from professional perspective Thiago George John that that is correct 60 ft is the minimum that that initially it was at 90 it could come down to 30 I mean to 60 now slow as it can go we heard board comments and essentially our decision was let's lower it as much as we feasibly can while still effectuating the use of course as you know we have to effectuate the use of the w obious we understand so yes 60 is the minimum okay I'll just you know finish wrapping up um so anyway um yeah we talked about this but the location was selected after you know Al did a lot of testing and review and analyses of course again we got the do permit it will conform with all those very strict regulations um and we uh and we'll make sure that it meets all those safety requirements we you know we talked a lot about the protocols I know you know I think we beat those to death so I'm not going to go through them again but um you also heard from Mr antel that the billboard does not require much maintenance you heard that from Mr Gart and Mr William as well just four times a year for routine maintenance um there's really no way to interfere with the sign otherwise um and uh there you know the benefits are the the crispy CLE Imaging as well as a directed light um it operates through you know these internal lubers that direct the lighting to the roadway prect prevent Sky glow prevent glare Etc um and uh this is you know youve heard from Mr Dart and Mr Williams that this is essentially a passive use that doesn't really require any of the typical site plan concerns that you would see um on something like you know in a big application like this um the copy has changed remotely from you know as Mr anall testified the actual programing is done all the way in Washington but you know it it gets instantaneously to the board of course um there's no traffic there's no storm water issues there's no there's no extra noise generated there's no se or concerns Etc um the you heard the proof say the D1 variants you just heard them so I don't think I need to repeat them too much but um you know Mr Williams did testify as to the particular suitability as to the negative criteria etc etc and you know I see the board nodding we we can you know we can leave it there you just heard it um so just to finalize here um I think this is a good use for this site I think it does not uh it meets the requirements of the two D1 variances and if the board is going to require that that planning variance for the the section 35 the missal aning slau I think we need that as well that's not really concern thank you all right thank you very much um at this time I would ask if there are any members of the public who wish to give comment on this application uh to please come forward okay no one's come forward are you coming forward sir my is on can you come all the way up grab a mic I think you got to get sworn yep you're got to make a comment either for or against this application please raise your right hand to swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do state your name spell your last name and provide us with your address please uh Thomas torto t r TL 419 Park Avenue South New York um good evening I'm the attorney for the property owner I just want to tell the board that uh uh the the owners uh fully join in the application by outfront media and U we asked that the the board approve the application and I think that Mr we team uh fantastic job of making a substantial presentation uh for the board I think they covered all the issues they just the legal issues the social issues all the other issues and the owners uh look look forward to the board approval thank you thank you sir so all the guys in the building are happy with this right is there a need to go into conference on this one no need no need only question I have is should we bring the township Forest be aware of tre cutting does he have any Authority in this parcel of land well you're you're you're saying you want you want to be able to you what you can refer to excuse me you can't change it but you may want his advice yeah because what do we know about trees I know a lot about I don't know anything about okay I would I wouldn't object to that I think that's other than that I think it's simp request good good application I would be for is that your statement sounds like it okay um all right Norah I guess where we're at well I I don't think we call it Ro yet we got to call R on what we're going forward here so are you asking me to draft the resolution to work with Mr that we would vote for a pool on I got to I got to blow the dust off my zoning shoulders here very okay um so we're going to ask Mr Johnson to draft a uh a resolution of approval of approval right that approval that incorporates the uh conditions I just want to be clear about one thing Mr chairman um do do we make a determination as to the the planning variance I just want to know if we should expect you know that may approval or not um I don't I don't see it being an issue uh it was kind of a check the box kind of thing because we're not dealing with a a flag lot through the woods or something but it was just something that you know the the reg the statute does require um and the I believe that the section 35 starts with something to the effect that uh the you cannot get a construction permit for a structure actually any permit right so so and again it was just a matter of again check in the box no I I appreciate that you called it out I just want to make sure yeah it's not it's not a typical one yeah definitely not thank you okay and if you could get me the EAS bet probably exists we I have to imagine perhaps the gentleman in the back can help going to talk as soon as we're done um look if it's the thing is it's the property there is for sure some memorialization of the access and we will get that to you okay all right so we had a a motion to have Mr Johnson draft uh a motion of approval inclusive of the conditions with the D D and do um and the Forester do I have a second second no I I and and a further review of the tree removal plan okay that was part of the conditions yeah yeah all right seconded by Jos second Jos Burt yes grani yes Jos yes Kaplan yes pedy yes ready yes yes okay than J be in I'll send you motion to adjourn move now you're dusted off glad you're here thank you glad to do that