you're on record announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 col 4-6 SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings act Nora please call the rooll Mr burit here M grani pres Mr josco here Mr Kaplan here Mr mozarella here Mr Petty Here Mr ready pres chairman Iran pres we also have our board planner Mr Chadwick engineer Mr Lono and her board attorney Mr Johnson here Mr you raise your leg hand please you swear or affirm that any testimony that you give tonight should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes Mr Man you swear or affirm that any testimony the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do okay uh let's start off with the Pledge of Allegiance United States of America and to the rep for it stands one nation indivisible lice at this point in this evening's meeting is there any member of the public that has any business to be brought to this board that is not on this evening's agenda I hear none and see none we have one resolution uh 2205 outfront media do I have a uh motion to move second Jos okay burtz grani josht Kaplan Petty ready can vote someone want to move that Mr ready made a motion okay I'm sorry I'm sorry yes gani yes yes yes Tedy yes ready yes okay uh um that's it on resolutions uh we can go right into the agenda there's no correspondence or anything tonight no correspondent okay let's go to uh application 2359 Lydia and Lanna Bender good evening good good evening excuse [Music] me Michael Rubin members of the board my name is Michael Rubin I'm the attorney for the uh appellants um congratulations Mr chairman thank you so much [Music] um this is an appeal of a determination by the zoning officer that adding a second kitchen to a single family duing automatically converts it to a two family dwelling although no other changes are being proposed to the physical layout of the home the subject property is located at for Parkside Drive as in designated is block 763 Lot 2 on the parci tax B the owners of the property are Lydia binder who lives at the on the on the lower level with her partner and Lydia's daughter yolina biner who lives on the second level with her partner and their two children an existing kitchen is on the second floor but there are bedrooms and living areas on both floors the floor plan were submitted with the application and uh one of the applicants is here to testify there is unimpeded access between the two floors through a central internal staircase applicants sought approval to install a kitchen on the ground floor to accommodate the religious beliefs of Lydia which differ from those of yolina the township denied their request for a permit asserting that installing a second kitchen would convert the dwelling into a two family dwelling although the two levels would made integrated and the owners would continue to live as a single extended family unit the zoning ordinance defines a two family dwelling as a building designed for or occupied exclusively by two families living independently of each other applicant filed an appeal of the administrator's office decision because the additional kitchen will not result in two independent livings um I have here as so witness ulina biner one of the owners um and ask that she be sworn in or from you're about to give show me the truth truth nothing about the truth I do um please state your name and address yena binder for Parkside Drive PRP New Jersey 07054 all and you resign at that address correct yes correct and is the property improved of the single family dwelling it is who else resides in the home um so it's myself my partner who's the father of my two children My Two children 8 and 6 and A2 respectively my mom uh Lydia binder and her partner Edward shman and who were the owners of the property myself and my mom when did you buy it uh about a year ago April 2023 where did you live before moving to parcion so myself my partner and my kids we lived in Brooklyn New York um we lived in a one-bedroom apartment which was my apartment um the four of us and my mom lived in Fairfield New Jersey with her partner um in a ranch style house which was a three-bedroom house the apartment you lived in in Brooklyn was too small for your family absolutely we I gr my children are um to opposite Texas a boy and a girl so they're growing naturally and yeah and your mother's house was too small for you to move into it was when we would sleep over we would all be in one bedroom um why did you decide to buy a house together so um about a year and a half ago my mom got diagnosed with uh lung cancer she had a surgery she had a lung ectomy so one entire lung got removed um she had a very very rough um recovery and then chemo and then immunotherapy and then had um um side effects from immunotherapy and so she it was understood that she needed more help more taken care of and so um and I needed the support with my kids so we looked for something where we can move in together and we can you know it would be mutually beneficial and she can help me with the kids and her and her husband can help me with the kids and you know naturally I help her um why the parcion area um well my husband opened up a business um a auto repair shop on rout 46 um in um Pinebrook right before the road splits into 46 in Bloomfield there's a Getty Gas Station and inside that gas station he rents the um what is it called like a garage whatever the space yeah for his order repair shop so he did that about 2 years ago and so we were looking in the area so we would be closer to his uh to his work and also um the schools are really good in pipan and uh we looked in other towns in the area but we were looking for somewhere where we can have a B level with two kitchen sorry with two kitchens uh we looked in East Hanover for example um and there was a house that we liked that you know that that had the space sort of for what we wanted um but we called uh the township and it was a hard no that they don't allow two kitchens in that in East ano at all so when we found this house and we called ppines Township we were told that um in certain cases that yes they do allow it so we put it um did why didn't you uh purchase or look at two families as opposed to a buy B so we did we looked at a two family um in I think it was either Codwell or west Codwell some off of Bloomfield and um the stair the stairs was just not doable for my mom um to climb up and down plus both so was two apartments in you know one sort of one above the other In One Construction but it was a very long and steep stairway up and there were two separate doors and considering that uh the kids stay a lot you know with the grandparents when both my husband and I working um it wouldn't be you know they can't just go hey come down it was like a two closed off spaces we needed something that was a one family house where all the spaces are open there's no doors or it's not covered or restricted in any way and it's easy for the kids to get down you know to call my mom if something is wrong also for me if got forbid something is wrong with my mom for me to hear and be able to come down Mr Ruben I think this would all be great testimony with respect to a variant appliation exactly see we're here to decide whether the decision of the of the zoning officer was correct right but the definition is two families living independently of each other so I think some of the proofs have to show that these families do not live independently of each first question is whether what is contemplated on the ground floor qualifies as a dwelling unit and if it qualifies as a dwelling unit and is another dwelling unit and then converts it from a dwelling single family to a dwelling two family I think that's where the rub is right but it says forming a single habitable unit and all of this is to demonstrate that this is not a single habitable unit this is a your problem with that argument is the physical makeup of the building will be two dwelling units how they function socially within it is your and my speculation but it's not towelling let me finish to to argue that they are not they are connected that they do do not live independent of one another you don't know how the family's going to operate maybe they getting a big fight don't talk to each other for a year but that's what the testimonies for is to say they don't live in that's your definition did you hear what the attorney said yeah what information was given to the zoning officer at the time the application for the permit was made same information I'm giving here tonight so Mr chairman we do have this zoning officer here and maybe she can Testify the precedent set on this type of situation that's what so the the the issue before the board tonight is whether that decision by the zoning officer based upon the information that she had at the time she made that decision was correct or not correct and and she had all the information that these are this is an extended family living as a single family unit in a bi Lev home that was constructed as a bi Lev home with bedrooms on both floors and the only thing that's missing is a kitchen on the second floor the zoning officer said to put a a kitchen on the first floor to put a second Kitchen in constitutes a second a second dwelling un and my my question is why what in your ordinance says that putting a second kitchen makes it a separate dwelling unit nothing nothing I don't I don't think it necessarily means that that then becomes a a two family house we have approved second kitchens okay and one one night I got myself into trouble because I said it was an Italian family and every Italian family has a kitchen I am Italian so I can say that in the basement right all right that when you mention two family I get a little scared okay I don't care if you put a second Kitchen in if it's only a one family house that people all live together there's no there's no locked door there's no wall built that's what we describing yeah you're not asking for a two family house you're asking for a second kitchen correct that's all again I still think you should be a variance application the problem the problem you have the Township's ordinance hasn't come to grips with multigenerational occup most towns don't and the issue the testimony you've given is right on point for use VAR but how do you say functionally the physically of the building is what you have to look at correct and there's nothing in that have two dwelling units and there's nothing in the building that separates those dwelling units so you can't live independently of one another which is your definition there's nothing in your ordinance that says two kitchens automatically make two dwelling unit what's to stop them from just putting a door up at some point they would the layout of the building prevents that it's not it's not separable and moreover they would need permits to do that that you have to trust people unfortunately people do stuff all the time you can't assume that people are going to act illegally you can't deny this on the basis that you're going to assume that people are going to act illegally that's that that's not the way boards work boards have to assume that people just like we're here in good faith that people are going to act in good faith and they're here to tell you that that they can't separate this building because they that the mother takes care of the kids and the daughter takes care of the mother and they can't separate time time passes and the occupancy changes and you can't tell me what it's going to be but you're going to have to get an inspector when it changes if they sell the house an inspector's going to come in if someone in Paran I apologize but that does not happen in Paran you have a fire inspection period fire inspection if he sees separation that's illegal you're speculating no but you're speculating that they're going to cut off the the the two Lev and you can't speculate that they're going to act illegally that's not fair to them I I think you you understand what the issue is that this board is grappling with so if you could limit your evidence to that particular issue how why this particular situation that you that your client brought to the attention of the zoning officer does not qualify as a separate dwelling unit then the board will make that decision can you describe the house please that was where we were going the next question I was going to ask was please describe the house sure um when you come in the main entrance the main door uh from the outside there's a few steps up and then the main door and then there's a little um I don't know what is it called warer a landing and there's a few steps up and a few steps down it's not a long or a steep staircase it's a pretty it's a manageable staircase small um when you come in um there's to the left there's a living room this is on the Upper Floor right on the second on the higher floor um there's a kitchen and and a dining room kind of connected from the living room to the dining room and the dining room is also connected to the kitchen it's kind of an open sort of space then when you go to the right there's one full bathroom there's one kids bedroom then there's another kids bedroom there a master bedroom so the left and uh master bathroom from the master bedroom and then downstairs um it's okay I know it I I picture it in my um so then when you take the few steps downstairs to the left there's my mom's room and then there's like a family room situation um then there's that exit to the backyard to the patio and backyard straight like from the living from the family room then to the right before you get to that like glass door there's a one full bathroom and then um if when you come down the stairs you make a right right away um there's a space where we're trying to make that kitchen um there's to the left there's a laundry room and um a halfbath a very small half bathroom um if you keep going straight it's awfully big house but before you keep going straight in the kitchen area to the right there's another small bedroom uh which is like a office space used you know to keep like papers and I put a computer in um if you go straight to the left there's um my mom's husband's room and then the exit to the garage is there a shower down is there only one laundry room in the house only one laundry room in the house and no no unfortunately no space um on the second floor can I ask you question to put any other one why didn't you just come in front of us for a c variance a d variance and say to us this is our our story right a multigenerational family we're looking to take care of elderly parents and we need the second kitchen and then in the past on occasions we have granted those variances with a deed restriction and that's the end of it why didn't we go through that path because because because you because you're doing I'm sorry goad can I answer that cuz that was my decision not hers this was my decision okay to be a Dev variance it says in particular cases for special region Grant a variance to our departure from regulations enacted pursuant to this act zoning regulations I have been asking since day one point to me a regulation that says a second kitchen makes a two family house and and the only thing I got was a denial letter saying this is a two family they didn't site to any provision of the ordinance that says this makes it a two family and I need a departure from a regul a zoning regulation and no one has been able to point to me a zoning regulation that adding a kitchen violates that creates a two family dwelling no one but so so I'm not going to tell you how to be a lawyer for sure but your client wants that kitchen needs that kitchen and if the best way for her to get the kitchen is to go in front of us for a variance and not argue the legal ease of an ornament that is open to interpretation why wouldn't you just go with the way that gets her what she wants because how do I know you're going to Grant it I mean I need five votes I need I I need five votes to get a Dev variance it's it's going to have to be I mean it's a Dev variance I mean no one wants to have it no one wants to come before a zoning board for a Dev variance if they don't have to if your ordinance told me that this is a two family dwelling I would have filed for a d variance if if someone Cano to a regulation in the ordinance that says a second kitchen means that this is a two family why take a time out on this I would I would I would have filed for a variance why don't we take a time out on this and find it within the ordinance or the basis for this ordinance the two family definition or the single family definition there has to be language with I have it right here I can meet it to you no I don't want you read it's in the definitions DW there's a definition of a dwelling unit and a definition of dwelling to family with two dwelling units a dwelling unit is any room or group of rooms or any part thereof located within a building and forming a single habitable unit with fil facilities which are used or designed to be used for living sleeping cooking or eating that is a dwelling unit so the question is is what your client wants to do on first floor does that constitute a second dwelling unit within that building therefore converting it from dwelling comma single family to dwelling comma two family to be a two family they would have to be living independently of each other and they're not so and that and and and it doesn't form a single habitable unit because they are connected by an internal stairway that they use all day long every day to travel between the second floor and the first floor just like I do in my house where my bedrooms are on my second floor or and my bathrooms are on my second floor and whatever I travel between floors they all travel between floors indiscriminately the first floor if I understand it correctly has sleeping cooking and living spaces corre for for its own family unit correct no it has well does it not have sleeping in the first place yes but not for own family unit does it not cooking on the first not now but will it though if it's permitted if it and does it not have a living room space on yes it does but it's not it has all of those three things but it doesn't form a single habitable unit by its physical nature no by its physical nature would have to be independent because that's the definition of a two family dwelling but you but you you have to look at the two definitions and Par material with one another I agree with you and in order to be a two family dwelling those two that single habit unit has to be independent of the other single habitable unit and it's not in this case because it was built as a by level that's how it was built with with with bedrooms on both floors and living areas on both floors but not kitens is there there on the bottom floor there's utility room in a laundry room correct is there a utility room in laundry room what does utility room mean like like you have your your furnace and your downstairs laundry room laundry room is on the bottom floor is there one on the top floor and there's no space to who's parking in the garage right now in the garage yeah both I mean we all park in the driveway and the garage is full of stuff so if the the garage is full stop well lots of people do that not a problem so if the people upstairs are going to do laundry they have to come downstairs I mean that's the only way and that's what you're doing now I mean I have two kids that are in sports I do laundry every single day several times several all the day and there's a shower downstairs correct there is and your if I understand correctly one of you keeps coer correct yes my mom your mom does right so your mom cooks independently of you and your family it's been very difficult yeah okay and then so you so you PR the intent is for you to prepare meals separately and each of these separate kitchens correct and also wash the dishes separately and yes requires two of everything to keep one it's been very difficult that's the reason why you want to accomplish that's why went through so that one family can keep kosher correct and one family doesn't have to well a part of the family not two separate families where all is going to keep a kosher house and the other family is not correct and the grandparents keep kosher and but it's not two families it's one family I understand they're related no no no they're integrated that's the problem that that you don't understand the kitchens don't make them integrated there's nothing in your ordinance that says that the kitchens make that's a two family dwelling if there was something in your ordinance that says you put a second Kitchen in here and you become a two family ding I would have done a de variance and I wouldn't be here right now but what happens the fact that they are cooking separate meals they're cooking separate meals now indicate that they're living independently from but they're not going listen to you they're not living independently of one another because they cook separate meals I cook separate meals from my wife in the same kitchen now right Mr Johnson what happens if the zoning officer comes up and says this is how she treats every case in front of her does that matter it's the issue is is this application creat a violation of the zoning ordinance and the zoning officer indicated that it did and and that therefore you need a variance from the very section that we've been discussing but they never explained why all they said is a two family dwelling they didn't go through this analysis they did nothing all of this denial said by putting a second Kitchen in this is a two family dwelling with no analysis no citation to the ordinance nothing I had nothing to go on am here a question does this come down to meals and what I mean by that is if the entire family were keeping koser or the entire family were not keeping kosher would you be requesting a second kitchen I mean if the entire family were not was either it was one or the other would you be requesting a second kitchen I mean I suppose not but what the fact of the matter is that one part of I understand that I'm trying to what I'm trying to get at is what you know just come down are we boiling this down to dinner time that's what that's what that's what motivated so yes that also with how difficult it's been to to keep that sort of culture and not coming down to but but wait but it's not only that it's also consider the fact that you know my mom's health condition and to constantly come up quick a second time go down come back up several times a day cuz you don't just eat one once a day right it's been extremely difficult more so on my mom than anyone else considering that she is you know post cancer and with one lung and her breathing I mean you know at an older age most people tend to get shortness of breath going up the stairs now consider with one lung so it's it's been very difficult J can we I'm can we request the zoning officer uh the zoning officer is here would you like her to come up and that's you prerogative I I'd be happy to hear from her are you are you done with your presentation yes okay you have any more questions of your wi can I just ask one question sure do you have any intention of separating the lower level of the dwelling from the upper level and creating two distinct living areas no of course not the whole reason why we wanted a by level is because we want the opposite of a two distinct living areas we want one living area you know open I mean I already explained it it's I don't know how expl do you have any other Witnesses no another question you wait let's see are there any members of the public that have any questions of this witness on the testimony given this evening I hear none and see none why don't we let Jennifer come ask one more quick question oh yeah sure you stated that when you called parsipany you were told in certain cases they're allowable the second did you follow up and ask in what circumstances are they allowable no I didn't I just took it for and you have no written correspondence of this it was just you're saying you spoke to someone and that was we spoke someone in Township same way as we did with other towns another town that said that yes they allow it is D for example and we actually saw houses we looked at houses that had two kitchens we we tried to purchase them but we were out B any other questions any other questions Jennifer can you come up [Music] please [Music] yeah he's going to he's going to swear you in can you raise your right hand please just swear or affirm of the testimony that you're about to give to be the truth the whole truth I do good evening congratulations chairman irane you will be greatly missed thank you um I'd like to say uh for starters that we do not deny applications for second kitchens we review the plans we review the application so it is true if you call our office we do not immediately deny second kitchens we've allowed them what we do deny is when that second kitchen creates a separate living unit and by separate living unit it has all the components to be independent from the other bedrooms bathrooms kitchens a living area I have seen over my 32 years with the town many many times that structures exactly like her house exactly that we go in to do an inspection because a neighbor complains about cars and lots of people and we walk into the foyer and they've created two separate doors and the upstairs is the exact layout that she's describing and the downstairs is another unit and the person who bought the house had a single family dwelling never came to the zoning department to add the second kitchen or the doors they do the work without permits and the next thing you know you have a a a resident who unfortunately purchased what they thought was illegal to family that was not and you have two separate families living in them it happens all the time every month we find another and another illegal to family so my suggestion to them was it wasn't about the second kitchen it was about the two separate independent living she wins the lottery tomorrow and she sells that house and it's going to go on the market as a two family and then I have to go in and evict poor people that are living and those two SE units because they thought it was illegal to family so over the years we have tried very much to to tell people if they call we don't immediately deny second kitchen it's not about the second kitchen I just approved last month two kitchens in the basement no way out no full bathroom only a kitchen kosher family wanted to be able to cook separately but there was no full bathroom there was no way out of the basement there was no possible way I even had an inspector visit the site and walk through it there was no way that it would have been made a two family this it's not to me about the people I'm on the planning board every single time an applicant comes to the board and tells us we're going to do this they sell the property two months later and a completely different family moves in so I know I've been doing this a long time that I have to go by the structure and not about the people because the people will tell you I'm sure she's 100% honest in everything she's doing but I truly believe that the correct way to do it is to apply for the use variants apply for the deed that states that when she no longer needs the second kitchen that she will return it to a single family dwelling and the next buyer will buy a legal single family dwelling and that's what we explain when they submitted that's what we explained each time I'll be honest we never spoke so we never had we never spoke so I was never able to explain that um but we did speak several times my office staff did and and I want her to have the correct approvement as a use variance of a two family because heaven forbid down down the road that she wants to sell it she doesn't have to rip any everything out or she can ask for the de restriction but I don't believe that an appeal is the correct method so what was it about the this particular application that led you to conclude that it it was a separate independent dwelling it was at the first application I think you probably talked to someone in my office then I think someone came in with a floor plan and we looked at a floor plan and the first thing I look for is um I don't know if that's the first floor plan that we saw it um what are you referring to I look for this was probably in your packet this is the floor plan for Parkside dve it's several Pages I'm pretty sure it was in the application so it's probably in your packet so it each level had its own separate living and that's what I look for if you can live independent from one another with a full bathroom a kitchen bedrooms and some type of family room living room that can be separate units then uh so we didn't deny it for the kitchen when they first came it wasn't until we had the floor plan that we denied because it could be two separate living and I've seen this specific house turned into a two family many many times of course um so when we were looking for houses what we were looking for in addition to a B level that would permit a second kitchen we're looking for mother daughter houses which are sold as a single family house but they have spaces for you know the grandparents I mean that's the problem is mother daughter is not a zoning term you don't see that in Municipal land use law you don't see it in the zoning ordinance mother daughter is a realtor term that Realtors created many many years ago to get people to purchase a property that in essence is a true family so if you had said I'm looking for and to us as soon as someone says mother daughter I know I've got a two family because it has all the components to live separate if you closed off one floor the other floor could live completely independent of the other not the second floor because we don't have a laundry room have to go through I have two people who just installed bottom and top washer dryers in their bedroom like that and uh when my inspector first went out we looked at the floor plans when the house was sold and we looked at the the uh the plans and then and the pictures and then I sent an inspect out and they added the two doorways after the property sold and they added top and bottom washer dryers unfortunately and one was added in a bedroom so they immediately made it into a two family so now that poor person bought this property thinking it's a two family and now they have to uh they're probably going to be a future appliation any questions by the board of uh our uh zoning officer well do appear to me Mr Ruben you have questions of this one no um oh yeah one question the people who put in the laundry and the beding did they get a plumbing permit for that no do you have any rebuttal um you know you're you're basically assuming that people act illegally and I don't really think that's right but let me let me let me do this if what you're talking about is you want a deed restriction I'll voluntarily AG to put a deed restriction on this property that makes it a single family dwelling that's not the issue here that's not what this is about this isn't about that they want to convert this to two family dwelling if you want a deed restriction I'll clly a deed restriction on the house I think that would be appropriate with respect to a variance application I'm volunteering it it doesn't change the definitions in your ordinance you know the zoning officer said there's no definition of mother daughter in the ordinance but there's no definition that says a second kitchen makes it a two family either but she just testified that she relied not just on but there aren't two Independent Living units here no matter how you look at this house you have to assume that they're going to do something El legal to assume that this is two separate living units you have to make that assumption because it isn't it isn't today and it wouldn't be after a kitchen comes in because you're going to get inspections on the kitchen and they the inspector on the kitchen's going to know whether or not they put in a doorway between the two levels and he's going to see that they didn't and so they're going to get a c of over for two kitchens without a two family dwelling and then you're going to have to assume that they're going to act illegally Mr Johnson how does this end well you got to vote I mean I I agree you got got do a motion to vote no I just he's arguing a point you have a Counterpoint or offering just to expedite this yes but you've been asked and and this board has said several members apply for a d variance but other members have said maybe not you know I haven't heard from everybody yet well you may end up getting a no this way why not just apply for the dev variant because you could deny it this is like clear as can be you don't have an ordinance that says this is a two family you don't listen to what the board is say no I am listening to I if you vote me down got to apply for a d Varian I understand that but I'm asking for a vote that's all vote me down that's okay I mean if that's what you going to do that's I'm here anyway I'm not going to just withdraw vote me down and apply for a devarian if that's what you're going to do but at least I have a record that I could proceed on if I choose to take a different path do you have anything else no are there any members of the public who wish to speak in opposition to this application in support of this application I hear none and see none left motion with the conference so move there second please second all in favor I everyone opposed okay Mr jco what you seem like you want to start okay uh I think clearly with the testimony from the zoning officer what she is saying makes total sense and we've had many cases in the past where unfortunately people do not behave in the appropriate Manner and they create and with the expert witness who does this that they're doing the wrong thing we've had cases constantly and there is a out for the for the applicant where she can come in front of this board ask for a use variance and be granted her wish just taking a path that makes more sense to us this does not seem right to me I believe our zoning officer I think she presented it well it's there are egresses down there you know you can get in and out of the house all you really have to do is slap a door in there you could eat sleep drink bathe and leave except wash oh but that's not a prerequisite and I got to tell you I know a person who has a million dollar house at mcir and their washer dry is a stackable in the kitchen so it could be done and I have to in my judgment I believe that's possible and it might not be her doing but it certainly could be the next person so if there's an out for this person to get what they need I would rather them take that and I would be voting no on your can I just what am I asking for if I come in for a variant it doesn't matter you're I need direction you've been given Direction I'm not asking for Vance for a two family dwelling because we're not asking for a two family dwelling so what am I asking for you're you're asking is there deep barri to add a second kitchen and still be a one family dwelling did with the de restriction you you you're asking for a two family because you're I'm not asking I don't want a two family I don't want a two family I'm not asking for a two family sir I I don't I don't no I want to know what I'm asking what am I asking for it's not our job to tell you asking for a two family with the deed restriction that if they sell this property he'll be returned to a but I don't want a two family well then you don't want to be here then see that's the problem telling you how to do it no but but but I I they run restriction ones with the I mean time out we're in the conference okay I don't want it you're you're over how you speak so let the Board finish the comments they're going to they're going to they're going to vote on your appeal and then you can take that and do with it what you will so ready I I just want if I can I just want to say we talk about not having a laundry room I grew up in an apartment which we didn't have a laundry room and it was considered a dwelling we had to take our laundry either a laundry mat or the laundry room that is part of the apartment complex so just because there's not a washer and dryer in my mind doesn't mean you can't live there that's how and and the zoning board zoning officer explained everything what is considered a dwelling multiple times and everybody up here has basically giving you the out to get what you need I don't want to two family dwell nobody's saying that I'm not I'm not even going to talk to you because we're in conference like he said I'm just stating what I feel about this and that's why I will be voting now thank you Mr yeah I agree with the same same concerns with other board members is uh I like mother and family mother and daughters to be together however two family there two kitchens that's not in one vals uh M grani I have no further comment thank you um I I believe the well I will I didn't but now I do um you've been given sir you've been given some direction from this board and I think it's in your best interest not only in your best interest but in your client's interest to follow through you're not asking for a two family we're not giving you a two family you possibly need not possibly you will need a deed restriction and a d variance apply for that and have her have come come before this board again who's next oh I want to you go ahead me no I think I agree I agree to what our zoning officer said it was so nice actually she gave the answer and I do felt that was very fair what you are asking you're getting the only condition was to just to be fair for the next families in case if it's sold so I agree with this boot but you have the answers I do not think that the applicant met their burden um that the uh zoning officer interpretation was uh incorrect uh I also feel that the board has been overly generous in guidance and therefore I will be voting no Mr bur um basically I agree pretty much with everybody else has said thank you uh I think it's two dwelling units regardless of whether doors or Not O okay we are going to vote on on a um an a appeal of the administrative officer she has explained why she did what she did and we are obligated to either support her or not support support her I don't see any reason not to support her but let me just give you a little other information when people come to us with health needs with elderly parents' needs I have never ever ever seen this board turn down a variance application whether it was a d or C or whatever okay I won't be here but I can tell you that the rest of this board is very compassionate with regard to Family Health Etc so just comforted variants and we can let we can let Jennifer continue to do what she does very well and I can almost guarantee you it'll get your IR I don't think it's I don't think it's a big thing with a deed restriction and Etc or if the family ever moved out kitchen goes something to that effect have motion to come out of conference so move second are we voting yes or we're voting yes on a denial somebody want you are voting yes to affirm the decision of the hearing thank you who made that motion Jos thank you second Mr ready yes any discussion Nora call the rooll burtz yes Excuse me yes grani yes josht yes Kaplan yes mozarella yes py yes ready yes hurricane yes so the uh the uh Zing officer's uh opinion has been withheld uph upheld upheld thank you thank you board members Mr chairman again I wish you the best of luck and enjoy your retirement thank you thank you we hope to see I'm sure the board will miss you uh don't don't manage don't manage nobody's Irreplaceable I've found that out oh boy okay 2402 yeah Hendra P 511 leore Drive see variant to construct a balcony in the shed good evening okay can you please raise your right hands do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay please State your names spell your last names starting over here on the my name is Hendra I'm here for 511 leg should Drive parip New Jersey would you speak up please hold M my name is kajal p uh we are here for 511 leak sh drive for and you ow that property correct yes yes like to do we like to add a balcony on the second floor and then over the what you're looking for a front yard setback of 20.6 Ft where 25 is allowed you're looking for yards and courts shed side yard 6 ft allow you're going 3 ft yards and courts re shed rear yard allowed six you're requesting three yards and Courts open back uh 31.85 is allowed you're proposing 31.0 building coverage allowed 23.8 you're proposing 25.95 you're in an R4 Zone R4 Zone with it's a big lot so you don't have a you you don't have any uh constraints because of the size of your lot it's a corner lot it's a corner lot so you got two front yards the inFAMOUS two front yards um what is the this nature of this balcony is it just an open yeah is the open PL or is it got poles underneath it to hold it up no there is no pole underneath is open stick yes 5 ft yes railing around it no roof no no no roof no roof how's it why don't you explain why you want to do what you want to do the balcony uh because uh when we uh start building this house uh we realize we have a very beautiful view the lake so that is the reason uh we wanted to add uh the balcony or the garage have you discussed this a all with your neighbors is there any issue with encroaching on neighbors no nobody has no nobody nobody said anything no what's the hard ship with um the 6 foot um setback for the shed the head is that an existing shed no uh it's it was the old house they have the shed over there but when we constucted we remove everything here and you can't move it another 3 ft yeah we can move what's the fence consist of what is that what type of fence is that fences what what's there now uh nothing is there there's no nothing yeah the survey shows a fence metal fence offline oh yeah yeah that's the metal fence yeah the old one yeah whose fence is that yours or the neighbors uh I think that's ours yeah and what does it consist of oh what when you say a metal fence is it sheet metal or uh a seat metal yeah seat metal yeah it's a wire yeah it's a wire chain link is a chain link fence you know where chain link fence is you can see through it chain oh yeah you can see through yeah chains are like this yes yes how tall yeah see through how tall it is it uh it a 6 ft yeah is there anything growing on it or it's just open no it's just open yeah no slats no anything any Shrubbery over there no nothing no you're willing to uh forego this the three-foot requirement three foot uh to make it six foot and that'll take number two and number three out of the mix tonight so we're only dealing with a front yard uh and is is that on the side street or is that the the balcony is it going to be on the side street or the street where your house is addressed uh it's on the Atlantic yeah the side it's on the Atlantic so it's so it's on the side yard okay and the uh yards and courts and the building coverage are not really out of whack only a couple of points M any uh any other questions by the board no I just want to make sure you understand so you've agreed to move the shed yes 6 ft from the property line yes on each corner you understand y okay great any questions on the board over here no any members of the public have any questions of these Witnesses on testimony given this evening I hear none and see none there's nothing else youd like to add right anything nothing else you'd like to add no no this is it yeah any members of the public who wish speak in opposition to the application and support of the application I hear none and see none uh we don't need to go into conference somebody say why it's a good application is a reasonable application the resident want to make some view observation things and all so and also he agreed to move the shed 6 ft away from the sidey yard and two y thank you uh someone frame a quick resolution so we can move on I can do it uh application number 242 Kendra pandia 511 Lake Shore Drive block 329 lot 5 in the R4 Zone I recommend we Grant the sea variant to construct the balcony and shed provided the shed is 6 ft is there a second second any discussion nor please pull the roll berit yes brani yes Jos Kap Mill yes EDD yes Fredy yes yes results of Varian is granted we will memorialize this at our next meeting which is two weeks from tonight and uh you can contact Nora you your payer you're ready to roll enjoy your additions thank you Mr and congratulations okay application 24:12 Temple betham I understand that Mr O'Neal has a very brief application here good evening everyone Joseph O'Neal for temple betham believe it or not I used to be known from my brevity yeah we're well I'm going to show you theight so Temple Beth this is a application for what is basically a second sign on the site identical to the sign of the existing Temple because the two temples are in fact using the same building so the conditions of the that the existing Temple put on temple betham is can't have a bigger sign than we have and you can't be any closer to the road so that is what is before the board today there are no dimensional variant is related to the side the only variance is that it's two sides on what prop but there if you look at the application you'll see they're identical in nature so we think uh this one would be a good approval certainly want to support the with respect to the did you um did you read Mr the's Report with respect to the location of the existing sign it's about 27 F off the 27 can you get bear with me because I think that was one of his concerns as to the exact location of the existing s yes the issue is because the the setback is from the property line and the dimension that's shown on the plan is from the edge of pavement and there's no way to guarantee where the road is side to side within the right way and I think the concern was probably whether there needed to be another variance for that which we don't want to necessarily deal with because you're not asking for that yes just one second instead back if you put no less than 15 ft you probably cover [Music] it if there's some way to to make sure that the proper setback is there yeah well looking at where the curve is on the driveway I mean if there's an old site plan that may Happ set back is 10t that's all so the church di 10 F 15 my I believe at 16 ft that we're setback and we've got the same setback okay so we're going to go ahead and say no less l no less than 15 ft yes okay what else is there Mr arneal anything else that's really the whole story I want to square Mr buron to make sure he has nothing else to add do you have anything can you raise your right hand you swear from that any testimony that you happen to give show be the truth the whole truth and nothing yes Mr bir you drew the Short Straw in the congregation you get yeah name an address please name and address please uh my name Mark bir 20 Winding Way Paran 20 Winding Way for okay VG p r g p r g e any and you have nothing there's nothing okay everything I said he's saying he's saying he has nothing he event would you concur with what Mr O'Neal just whatever he says yes okay careful any me any members of the public have any questions of Mr bir I just have one question we have to talk about the lighting all right the lighting is uh is the existing sign lit I believe it's lit from the uh from the grass that true yes it we'll have the same type of that all indirect indirect lighting Spotlight now it says that lighting is not permitted so how do we address that I'd like to amend the application for lighting for both temples I want to come out of here with a violation for temple so with the board's permission I'd like to add the uh Lighting on the signage that is existing for the existing Temple will be duplicated and since that is not conforming lighting we'll go ahead and ask for a variance for both sides yeah silly question but do you are you authorized to represent the other Temple yes they have signed the they signed the application for this we are okay any othered to have keep their mind any other questions by the board that I ask there any members of the public I think I did I cut you off you didn't any members of the public have any questions of the Witnesses on this T would give please come forward my name is Larry who whoa whoa got to use a microphone please question my name is Larry LOM rant l r ntz I represent adash Shalom the other synagogue in the building we're signed we have signed the application um I just want to clarify one thing lighting is not permitted on the sign and there is no intention for lighting to be permitted on on the sign for temple betham that's in our agreement with them all right so weend accordingly okay so we're not going to worry about lighting at all no lighting no lighting at all what it okay thank thanks thank you that question all right and uh any other members of the public have any questions okay you through Joe on any members of the public who wish speak in opposition to this applicant in support of this application I hear none and see none do we need do we need a conference ladies and gentlemen no somebody make a recommendation for this the Minimus request I recommend it's a the Minimus request thank you somebody frame a resolution take care of it 2412 Temple betham 8841 Mountain Way block 15 lot 6 in the r1m zone I recommend the board Grant the C variant to construct a freestanding sign second ready any discussion nor rollz yes grani yes JZ yes chap yes Mella yes peddy yes ready yes hurricane yes thank you results of variance is granted as soon as you get your approval in two weeks you sign up okay thank you keep up the good work Mr O'Neal Bernie good seeing you Ronnie B I thought I recognized today okay I guess Mr uh O'Neal's hanging in for another one am I correct you are correct 2360 knns real estate my old property 9 beverick Road C variant for parking yeah I just would like to say um that I've had no relationship to this property since 2018 and I see no conflict in sitting on this application with that is this is this the application with the resolution that is potentially needed to be amended is that yes this is the property the uh the original approval in the resolution which was dated uh February 27th 2019 uh due to a miscommunication between my office and Mr King's office paragraph 7 of The Facts is wrong it reads the applicant also agreed to reduce the original request for 30 parking spaces to 25 parking spaces what it's supposed to read is the applicant also agreed to reduce the original requested variance from third for the 30 parking spaces down to 25 parking spaces because only 22 spaces fit on the property if you look at the plan it was provided you'll notice the property is completely full there was never going to be 23 24 or 25 spaces there's just simply no room so as part of this we would ask that that be modified in the original application how many spaces are there there are 22 spaces there's 23 spaces [Music] 22es so the the the resolution that was adopted in 2019 should have read it needed the L requested variance for 30 spaces where only 22 are the site plan that shows 21 I screw that up already there's two andic G 10 standard spaces on the North side nine next to the building 29 and 10 comes out 211 oh I'm being corrected that we have SP I we might as well get it right well why not at least once with two applications we should try to get this originally had three commercial components right it still has three commercial components but two of the spaces have been rented by a restaurant okay so there'll two users there's going to be two users now and uh what we're proposing is Flawless by Chris which exists already on North beverick Road is going to move down and uh this is Chris who I'm going to introduce she's going to I'm sorry what was it what type of business is it it's called Flawless by Chris it's is 118 North borck Road yes and we're going to get you scor just can you raise your right hand please sure just swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the treaties I do please state your name spite your last name and give us your address sure my name is Christina lesses l e m p s i s and I'm a resident of pony at 15 Hill Court so why don't you describe what it is we're talking about here sure so I currently have space at 118 North beverick Road and it's just me I offer aesthetic services and it's a one-on-one appointment only basis and I'm looking to expand and open something a little bit larger still working on a one-on-one basis but to provide something more beautiful for the community and for can you tell us some of the services you provide sure I do facials I customize Cosmetics I work a little bit with wellness and helping um clients for with Beauty from the inside out but no hair no hair don't let me touch hair I'm not a hair person I'm not a hair salon I know that my industry could fall under um a salon service title but that is not what I am I am customized wellness and Aesthetics and I offer more of a concierge Boutique kind of service for women servicing them I'm not a factory like a lot of other places out there are we just here because of the parking we're just here because of parking she her business is a permitted use yes yes okay so parking it goes from what we got approved up to 29 now so the 29 was required we need the variance for 10 that you're not going to have which we can't you the parking re re increased because of her use yes because it's classified as a spot but in fact it's just going to be her parking and possibly one maybe an overlap of two most likely correct and if I just may add I've been at 118 North beverick for 6 years and myself and my client uh Park on North beverick we don't have a parking lot you don't anticipate any additional parking Beyond what's going on right now no it's going to be one treatment room so I don't think I can fit more than one person in one treatment room there's plenty there's plenty of street parking on that stretch of also you've got a lot of places have their own lot so because you're going to you're your clients are going to park right in front of your door on the street they're not even going to park in the parking lot I trust me I've watched they actually all do they park right behind me in front of the building right now so now there is one other thing we would like to event for I understand you don't the approved sign is right in front of your window you would prefer that be moved and where that is is that is the corner near the that is the southern corner of the lot Southeastern corner of the lot closer to the other uh strip shopping center so what we would propose doing is flipping it to the other side of the building right on the corner off the corner but 2.3 feet back from the uh from the proper it's going to be in the side of the building no it will be between the sidewalk and the handicap parking spaces lined up with the corner of the building it actually we feel it's a better is this a free standing it's the free standing that was a pro yeah so there's a freestanding sign we would like to move that out of the Clutter of the tree the wire coming down from the pole everything else have it stand by itself actually near the parking lot so people can identify the parking lot a little easier but what we would need is a setback 2.3 ft what that does is the way the bricks are laid it keeps it off of what is kind of lines up as the sidewalk and still leaves enough room between the handicapped parking uh stalls between the sign and the building to have easy access for wheelchairs or whatever might come by plenty of you know I heard today I heard I heard today that they're doing some regentrification on North bever Road this has already been approved a along those sles okay is the existing sign right here yes no it's it's right here that box there okay you're going to move you're going to move it over to and Camp side yes Mr candel is in the back and he has an exhibit the board like to see that that's basically where we call it not a not a significant yeah it's a variance but it's not and who did you coordinate this with you said I seem to mention you coordinated with some improvements out there well we're trying to stay away from uh well we it was originally the tenant's request to get the sign out from in front of that window where she's at right and it's in and amongst the clo there's a tree there there's a I thought you said the movement was coordinated with some other Improvement the oh yes they're I'm sorry they're doing uh streetcape improvements of the sidewalks they're improving the sidewalks which is why this sidewalk was brick and my understanding is it's going to be something similar to that up and down the street okay so they're not going to change in front of the store this well we're we're leave the pack all right it's already done yeah okay so you need a variance for the sign 2.3 ft back back from the front side yard from the front yard side yard there's plenty of room no problems any any other questions by the board no any members of the public have any questions of this witness on a testimony she's given this even I Hear n see none want to add anything uh nothing for are any members of the public who wish speak in opposition to the application winess no oh sorry in support of this application I hear none and see none um Bernie is it a the Minimus request certainly is thank you um frame a resolution somebody so we can move on application 23 col 60 KS real estate 9 North l Road box 611 lot 8.01 zone b-5 recommend granting a c variance parking sign and the sign and the sign you have the right parking number inquir 19 and 29 is what's required 29 is required and you have 21 19 19 19 two handicap also there right 21 19 do we have to put that in there too so you want variance relief from the requirement of 29 spaces to permit you to have 21 non asking for okay asking for variance yes thank you and for the variance for the 19 second ready any discussion Mr bur yes uh grani yes yes yes Mella yes yes ready yes yes yes I'm sorry result as the Varian is granted uh you'll you'll be getting a you're um two two weeks yes in two weeks thank you for helping my dream come true congratulations Mr Eric Joe do you want the bill to shoot you a copy could she just make sure we're all on the same well we're going to copy okay I actually got a draft with the wrong number on it in my office so we'll straighten that up okay thanks thank you again good luck okay take care congrats thank [Music] you okayy all right and we come up to the final case of the evening 2411 HCR Holdings a Wonder restaurant uh in the old um Capital uh Bank building yes once again Joseph O'Neal for the applicant this is a reworking of the Capital One building there are only very minor changes to the building actually as you're going to see uh it's a freely adaptable for use as a Wonder restaurant which is a great new uh Concept in these restaurants it's they basically took over the Blue Apron let's mark what's being handed out is [Music] exhibit go ahead get you all led up [Applause] [Music] out who is so I have with me this evening Jason berer of Wonder you raise your right hand please the testimony that you're to give be the truth truth and nothing but the truth can you state your name and spell your last name Jason botra b t t c h e r I'm sorry we just fell again pull the mic closer b o TT c h e r thank you Mr Bacher what is your position with W I'm an associate director of governance four Wonder I've been with the company for just about 3 years now you're fully familiar with the operations correct intimately why don't you walk us through what the Wonder concept is sure sure uh so what I did have passed out is a PowerPoint I put together unfortunately I couldn't procure a projector in time uh wonder is a food technology startup uh and if you could just follow with me with a with the PowerPoint and I'll let you know when you should change slides right now you should be on page one I apologize but can you pull the mic close our speaking sure thank you so wond is a food technology startup uh founded uh several years back before covid uh the model was quite different it was originally a mobile restaurants or food delivery uh you would order uh via a mobile uh a phone mobile application and a food truck would show up to your house and we would uh complete the cooking process for your order in front of your house deliver your meal uh hot uh about 12 months ago call it months ago we shifted Direction entirely and we are now opening brick-and Water restaurants and parpan is what we hope uh to be one of our next locations in northern New Jersey uh what differentiates us and what makes Wonder different is our approach to restaurants and to the business to the food industry what separ separates us is really our partnership and our strategy we partner with best-in-class restaurants from across the country and across numerous different Cuisines along with celebrity chefs uh that are well known throughout the United States um and and reproduce their Cuisines their menus using our uh proprietary technology and te and cooking techniques um we have production facilities in northern New Jersey including our primary production facility in Cranford uh which is a 39,000 ft Central Kitchen we have a pizza production facility in Newark and we have a uh barbecue production facility in West Orange uh so with that we work closely with the Partners to reproduce those Cuisines like I had mentioned within within those facilities from there everything is distributed essentially to the restaurants uh where preparation is completed uh on site made to order so to run through some of on on page two uh some of the chefs that and restaurants that we work with uh Bobby fle for example uh was one of our first Partners uh We've partnered with Marcus Samson Michael Simon uh Mark Murphy uh along with uh Jose Andreas more recently uh who are some of our partners and and in some cases sit on our board uh We've also like I said partnered with best-in-class restaurants across the country chai pane comes to mind which is award-winning uh Indian Street food out of North Carolina Tas barbecue which is one of our best sellers uh they're located just outside of Dallas uh and then we also have an incredible uh slate of chefs that work for Wonder and with that we will we work with those chefs and create our own white label we call them restaurants but men using Cuisines uh that are are then made available in our locations so as you describe it the uh cooking is really done offsite the original cooking but it is the final prep and product done on site all electric cooking correct yeah so all of the equipment located in the back of house is electric uh I won't go into too much detail on to our into our preparation techniques but it will include ventless fryers uh impingement ovens um water baths uh and then obviously everything else that comes with back of house whether it be heat lamps and shelding and so you're not actually you don't actually have a barbecue in the back correct there's no open flame in the back and there's no no rotisserie an fire suppression system uh so by code we actually don't need a hood but we do in install a type two Hood over the hotline for uh heat and condensation management not for smoke not for smoke there's no no smoke no correct and and uh I believe our our architect will go into that for uh more detailed okay are you mostly takeout and delivering uh so the split in the suburbs what we're seeing is about it's between 60 and 7030 uh 6040 7030 uh depending on location that's generally what we're seeing with it more delivery and pickup uh as opposed to dining but we do offer D in as well uh so there will be a front of house here for seating of I believe it's eight patrons uh it's it's a eight uh it's a limited seating front of house uh all of our locations vary in size based on what the market projections look like and what the demand and and um the uh the split in that demand is going to be uh and in in this case it is a smaller front of house I delber I excuse me many delivery vehicles you have there uh so in terms of deliveries all deliveries are made uh via passenger vehicles uh and so we in terms of delivery vehicles being on site there's none on site um they're only on site to pick up and we work with uh thirdparty applications whether it be door Dash Uber Eats um uh seamless any of the other typical apps where delivery drivers show up the delivery drivers are not your employees we also do have uh employees as well um and and with that they're still not onsite they're they're out making deliveries we will Flex as necessary uh based on what projections are for a given week um or based on on just an increase in demand on a given day so all deliver there's I mean that that eight which is really just a suggestion SE correct the model is for delivery be it third party apps or you're limited so just to understand the business again you have a brick and water that you get food brought to your facility in some state of Readiness that from multiple kinds of ethnicity or product you bring it in and then people call in in order and you finish the cooking process in your facility and 90% of your food is going to get delivered if not higher uh it's it's that 6070 split is really pickup delivery no one's eating there for the most part uh no you you do get some people eating in but here uh you know the split will probably be in that 70 room so I understand the business correct okay what are your hours uh hours are going to be at this location opening 11: for lunch uh through 9:30 uh for for dinner service right now we don't offer breakfast but there is a possibility that uh that will be a uh become a part of our offering in the future one other the comments that um the board's engineer had was the space of your cooking facility relative to the space is that a product of how your business operates correct that's a product of of just our preparation techniques so our general split in most locations is very heavy on the back of house side and and just to explain the comment uh the parking calculations is based upon the seating area in a restaurant so this building the proportions are are backwards normally you have more d room area than kitchen here it's more kitchen than dining room area so I just wanted to point out that the parking calculations are a little off would are a little off if you had a a a standard restaurant of this size the proportions would be different so the parking would be greater that's and and again we're discussing how this works and as far as trying to assess the parking so if let me ask a question if I can um so just say people decided they want to eat there so you would have like a waiting line would does that ever has it ever come up so there's numerous different ways to order uh you can either order on the website our uh Wonder app or you can order from a third party service typically what we see when people are eating in usually they're ordering by an app as opposed to on site we also do have two self-served kiosks okay uh at the location where you'll be able to place your order uh and then at that point our front of house uh employee or brand ambassador would provide you with your order so there's no real weight staff or anything like that no there's no traditional weight staff any other questions yeah I do have one more so you have of all the restaurants that I guess are listed on the back here that'll be participants in this particular restaurant you have components of the entire menus from each of those restaurants correct in inhouse it doesn't have to get made somewhere else then brought to you then finished I how should I put it if I ordered something right now you'd have it there correct just finish off and then I come yeah and stock on site is all based on on whatever got okay that's any members of the public have any questions of this witness I hear none and see none thank you Mr berer thank you we'll go on to our engineering [Music] [Music] okay can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name and last name provide Joseph hle with bowler engineering h o l z as in zebra a p as in Peter f as in Frank E L as in Larry address thir Garber Square Ridgewood New Jersey 07450 Mr would you give the board please the benefit of your experience yes I've been a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey since 2021 have my Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering from NJIT um and I've been with bowler for over eight years specializing in sight civil design licenses are in order yes i' submit him as an expert for civil engineering purposes thatle who heard me describe that we're only making minor changes to the Capital One site please do not make a liar out of me and explain the S application yes so as one of the um exhibits as part of the slide deck that Mr botcher had handed out um on the aerial exhibit you'll see that a lot of that site will remain the same in our proposed conditions which I will get into the site is known as block 729 lot one it's within the 03 or the Office Professional District um it's about 1.06 Acres and it is generally surrounded by similar uses of office retail and restaurant on all four sides um to the north you have Route 46 and to the West you have gra Road the existing site today has the old capital 1 Bank which is approximately 2500 sare ft there are two access points one right in right out on Route 46 and one full movement driveway on gra Road those two are remaining as is circulation around the site will also remain you have two way drive ises on the North and East sides of the building and you have a one-way counterclockwise oriented uh Drive aisle maneuver on the west and the South sides of the building I will now refer to an exhibit that we have its site and grading plan um it was actually part of the submission package that went to the board for a review it was prepared by my office and is dated January 22nd 2024 uh for the benefit of the record I can mark that as exhibit A2 yes so that was not submitted it was it was submitted so if we don't have to it was submitted in color this is how it was submitted yes oh we don't need to then we don't have to Market okay great so for orientation North is to the top of the page so for this you can see a lot of the improvements are very similar the purpose of tonight's meeting is the retrofit of the existing Bank building with the restaurant use that our architect will get into a little more detail we are proposing a a walk-in cooler on the south side of the building which is approximately 200 squ ft we are proposing very minor Ada improvements and adding some additional signage and reworking some of the facade signage for this which again our architect and our planner will discuss in a little more detail as I mentioned the access points remain the same the circulation generally Remains the Same for both vehicles and for pedestrians from a variance perspective this is a non-permitted use due to the restaurant being the entirety of the building whereas the codee only allows for about 20% um or less of the building to be a restaurant use we're also proposing a variance um as indicated in the engineers's letter for the um loading space size due to the truck that we are anticipating using and as per the code you do require a double the length in terms of um what is able to fit on the site and we also have a few signage variances related to the wall signs which our architect will get into last in terms of the variance for the loading area can you explain that exactly what you're asking for yes sure so we are anticipating a box truck um in se40 it's approximately 39.5 ft long uh the code does require double the length of the truck that you are anticipating for the site to be available for maneuvering um based on how the site is located uh we don't see an issue with the su4 traversing the site but that is what the variance is for we don't quite have the double of the the length Okay so really minor modifications that I mentioned from a lighting and Landscaping perspective we are not really changing the outer limits of the property therefore no changes to lighting and Landscaping are anticipated and the one other part of the application we are here for is a minor soil movement application um the code requires anything 100 cubic yards or less um and we are anticipating less than 100 cubic yards of movement we're actually amending for that because you caught that late in the process we'll get the materials to the board is a minor in connection with installation of the sign is that correct correct installation of the sign and the pad for the walking cooler so installation of the freestanding sign was the freestanding sign part of the original application believe so yes as part of yes the design may have changed um slightly but the location and the dimensions CU I remember a reference to signs on the front facade of the building and two sides of the building correct there's also a freestanding sign correct yes a free standing sign along 46 but there was a sign uh the principal sign on on the the front uh on the Frontage but two circular uh wall mounted signs on the Western and Eastern facades we're only going with one circular on the western facade so I noticed for the number of signs variant but we've removed that by removing that sign which was part of the original application so there are only really two mounted signs on the building because it's on a corn it's of course pered but when it was three that was one two because you have two front that's right two front so you don't need any variances for the signs that are physically located on the building no we do not do you need a variance for the free standing sign no we do not no we are being that concludes my direct test any questions by the board any members of the public have any questions Mr chairman if I might oh sure sorry just H when we spoke on the phone we talked about the easements that are shown on the plan on the plans uh first off there were sight triangle easements within the right of way of route 46 which obviously we don't need uh so would you be is is is it agreeable that the site easements would be adjusted to be basically on the property those pieces that are required uh correct so as part of this uh resolution clients if you were the board of s to approve it we will have a um a title search done to see what is the status of those eement and go ahead and do what we need to and remove it from the RightWay um prior to the C okay because the other issue also similar to with the easements was that the plan show a proposed variable utility easement which when we spoke you didn't we're sure what that was correct so none of these easements are for this application what had happened was the survey had had the surveyor had documents of proposals that have gone through the boards at this Township for the old bank so in their eyes it has not been complete yet because there was not a title search so we are working with the landlord to get the title search for the property and we will either perfect those easements or remove them if they're no longer required as part of previous approvals okay um with respect to the um the storm water this project appears to have been approved after the um the new storm the current storm water RS came in um so that the maintenance manual have to be amended to show that this is the current owner and who's responsible so on and so forth and also uh the det the storm water system includes a contact device which is a filter sorts um that's going to have to be serviced you know as part of the as part of the I would think the certificate of occupancy to make sure that that thing is still working the ba the Basin has to be maintained it needs some work um so I would be I would be recommending that the Basin be brought up to uh up to the original approval and that all the uh storm water management uh operations and maintenance manual be adjust be amended to show the current responsible party sure I can if you have any further a second left Mr Boer come back up but we have again spoken to the landlord they are still responsible for maintaining that Basin um so they will do that as part of c and make sure that the town has the proper operation maintenance manuals I've already been authorized to say we will we will take care of that and then there the issue on the the sidewalk along um along Range Road there needs to be some some soil put in there in that area fixed up a little bit correct so we the out been L will that as well prior do your clients okay with that as well yes okay that's all I have Mr chairman thank you any members of the public have any questions I hear none see n next [Music] witness Jason am I [Music] back okay Raise Your Right k do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you can you state your name spell your last name Prov us with your business this please sure my name is Jason daffner D is and David a f is and Frank n e r business address is 50 Hudson Street New York 100013 Mr daffner could you give the board please the benefit of your experience sure um I have a masters in architecture I've been practicing ing full-time for more than 27 years I am licensed in the state of New Jersey Massachusetts Ohio Illinois Texas and California I would submit Mr daffer is a expert for architectural purposes good Mr D could you walk us through what we're talking about here you heard a question about uh basically the internal operations why don't we just get you the question for Mr Jos about the fire suppression so great question it's totally on point typically um the suppression system that you're talking about is triggered by Grease Laden smoke which comes from an open flame and or a fire I'm sorry a a fryer with grease but as discussed by our client that fryer that's being used on this site is has a ventilation system that's included otherwise there's no Open Flame all of the cooking equipment is otherwise it's electric so there will be a deferred mle for a sprinkler system in the building but the specific Anil system you're describing isn't required okay thank you now we do have an exhibit up I believe with the uh showing of the front house Jason's [Music] bring so while we're getting the exhibit um I think the question came from this side of the board uh we are showing seating for uh 8 members of the public but there's also a standing table so there's a banat so two sides on the banat two freestanding seats that also provides for accessible seating as needed and then there are four seats uh facing north towards 46 uh along the counter how much of the business is actually just a pure walk-in that they're driving they see a sign and they come in I'm going to ask Mr botcher that question here so in the suburbs uh that's less so the case there's no way to really track that uh in our New York City locations obviously walk-in uh customers are are a big driver y okay this is a rendering of the front of house um if you were to come in from the front door this answers the question operationally if a guest was not ordering from their personal device there are some walk up kiosks here where they could order there's comfortable standing area if needed you can see the seats in the background and then the pickup here's a merchandiser in case you wanted to pick up a cold drink or beverage something like that and then there's a pickup area here to the right and just for the record what you have up on there is page 10 of A1 yeah just great thank [Music] you thank [Music] you uh so this is the same space but this is the view essentially if you walk in through the front door so again you'll see the ordering kiosks here in front of you to your right as a merchandiser and then there's a pickup window so as a guest coming through here uh the circulation flow is intuitive it's smooth and then you've got seating as you come around the corner uh access to a restroom fully accessible restroom for the guest only there's a uh Team Member restroom that's backup house and the materials the look and feel the style it's contemporary generally speaking but the materials the coloring the textures are relatively warm and Humane so it's an inviting space are there two kiosks like as pictured there yes there are two two places to order I have more it's just two correct yeah in in the S just out of curiosity in the city where it's mostly walk up do you have more kiosks no okay what do you do if more people show up to eat there than you anticipate does that occur Cate the sales they sent an A so in terms of to dine in to eat in in the restaurant uh to dine in I mean you know essentially in a situation like that our Upper West Side location which is one of our busiest my assumption would be they're they're going to walk out and and take it as as a takeout order essentially a pickup order well you have you have Westfield and Springfield right correct uh so Westfield is a larger front of house uh can't remember the seat count there but we haven't any had any issues with overcrowding in the Westfield location uh our New Providence location as well uh which was approved last month that's going to have a larger front of house but this being located on the the 46 Corridor it's it's less of a let's call it a traditional downtown F uh so the need for a larger front of house uh wasn't justified in this particular situation questions about this rendering D I'd like to go ahead continue with the Rend and so this is the view as you are picking up your food looking back out you're looking north towards for 6 here's the front entrance and you can see uh the seating choices are arranged in front of you let's talk a little bit about the uh cooler that's being put in the back the refrigeration unit that's being added to the back it's about 200 square ft it's 205 ft um of usable area it's 9 ft tall but there is a section that's 105 tall there's a piece of mechanical equipment so in terms of form and how it affects your uh your townscape it's not really seen first of all it's on the south side of the building it's off the street you could never see it from the street and it's covered by the existing Bank drive-thru uh drive-thru canopy so it's shown here there will be an existing or a new opening to the back of house space but you never see that because it's uh has to do with the door from the walk-in box so the uh you're going to be rolling things out of that cooler employees are the only ones that have access to that they're going to be rolling that on uh what type of thing well operationally there'll Beed yeah a speed Rack or a doll and it just depends on the scale of the scale of the uh the goods so there's going to be a little ramp there at the door to facilitate they getting them in through that door M yes there'll be a so two openings on this South Wall one opening you won't see because it's accessible or it gives you access to the cooler from inside the building there'll be a second opening a person door right here but again it wouldn't be visible from the Street and there's no access from the cooler out right you'd have to go into the building physically then come out the other door that's correct now the uh trucks that do the delivery uh overnight really I understand they leave at about 1:00 a.m. start their deliveries at about 1:00 a.m. they're coming through and they're wielding those speed racks right into the kitchen with the day supplies correct and they'll be utilizing that same yes they use that back door yes I have no further questions for this we do all do your other freestanding restaurants have this arched look or you just retrofit whatever we're taking the existing structure and making the best use of it I have a stupid question Mr on page seven why is there a car in the building cross my mind too it's a question on the reflection I know exactly what you're talking about there's a reflection in the glass could we transfer the stupidity to our shop for putting the reflection on there I'm GL you sit just to drive in drive through good catch is there any other question any other questions no is is M the only uh member of the public here everybody else is with you I can't turn around okay well anyway M if you have a question raise your hand otherwise I'm going to just pass through that okay you got it man well we do have a traffic report if anyone's interested but the bottom line there is uh these excess parking they anticipate Uber drivers and Uber Eats I mean and GrubHub these people will be utilizing it they got plenty of room for that no really added traffic problems if you want to hear it he is here otherwise I would go right to plan uh just a quicky on that it's funny because we had a lot of discussion about Chick-fil-A and the traffic it would cause a mess it is astonishing there's nothing yeah there's nothing there's not even a line there no it's crazy I'm I'm sure they must be disappointed in how it's doing but we were worried that they would be backing up on this side that side there's nothing there so this is going to do less than nothing no offense one one other thing though you might want to put a net up there cuz top golf's going over there so you get a couple couple golfs roof the roof is 30 don't feel bad for Chick-fil-A because it's operating exactly the way they explained it would to me and they didn't because the other one when it first opened the traffic was crazy they're moving them out of there have you been through that driveway it's much less they move you no they move you out but and they're happy with the the opening yeah the parking lots are awful the restaurant restant the resturants people with the apps I see no car backed up it's crazy it's also the third one in the area got Morris Plains Willowbrook and this one so it kind of alleviates on the side but anyway they'll be fine yeah what are we talking about that seriously Ranger games our Mr do Mo most of your customers are order on the app for delivery it's that so either delivery or pickup accounts for about 70 70% of our business in the suburbs good nice sounds good another witness we have our planner Mr seckler who's going to explain to you that restaurants are not permitted in this Z and he's going to give us the uh can you raise your right hand please give you the short version short version that you're about to give the truth the whole truth about the truth yes I do please state your name SP last name give your business after my name is Matt seckler that's SEC KL I'm at Stonefield engineering design address is 92 Park Avenue in Rutherford New Jersey you were here for taco I was I were here for top off so I would submit him again as an expert in planning take no pressure Mr CER but my medication ran out seven minutes ago I want I want to watch that Ranger game so I'll go quick we're in the 03 Zone here uh which is an office Zone in fact the minimum lot size for this Zone uh is about over two and a half times the size of this lot this is actually the smallest lot that's not publicly owned in this 03 Zone here which makes it unique in this location uh opposite on the other side of the street we got the B1 and the B2 further to the East and the other side of top golf so we do have business zones that have similar uses as what we're proposing here uh but again we are on a very small lot it's already developed with basically the L of building that works well for this type of use so I do believe this site this particular Ally suited for this type of application again um this is a a a corridor here where you do have a really be difficult to find office use especially in this environment try to come in on a site like this uh that's that's that's so undersized plus it's a Gateway kind of area to 46 as you enter this business Zone uh there'll be no negative impact by creating a a uh a drive-through restaurant or a delivery uh first restaurant in this specific location uh because the traffic can be handled uh the site is again has been designed with the previous drive-through use on it so I don't believe there's any substantial negative impact in terms of sorry so restaurants are permitted in this Zone as long as they don't occupy more than 20% correct likely because as like an accessory to an office building you would have a downstairs restaurant which again this can still serve especially this type of model the existing offices that are in the other office zones I mean there's office zones that have offices elsewhere in parcion just very tough to put one here development overlay excuse me theou 10 Redevelopment over 46 4 46 I think that's to the west to the East Place uh so again with top golf coming into the East and then you have the business uh Zone located a little bit further east of there this is a good transition for that area again the adjoining properties you've got you know public properties um uh nearby with all the courts from Smithfield Park you have office on the other side of the highway that this could serve this could be that kind of you know restaurant downstairs just it delivers to you instead of being in your in your office below so I do think it works well in the 03 Zone again I don't see any substantial negative impact I do believe the site is uniquely suited for this use because of how it's been previously developed as a drive-through use uh uh initially I do believe it meets purpose J which is um providing development um uh with good planning again be able to reuse of building is always uh better it's also better for the environment than tearing everything down and building everything brand new in terms of disposal I do believe that we also uh uh uh advanc purpose I which is visual environment eliminating a vacancy that's been out here for about two years banks are not really expanding anymore be able to find something that uses that same footprint is unique here and does a v purpose eye so I do believe this application does advance the necessary purpos of the mpal an use law be granted the use variance on this application thank you I have no further questions for this witness I do want to point out though I chased the engineer off so fast we forgot to acknowledge that we have no problems at all with the conditions requested by Mr lwi in his reports any questions of the planer no that is a next door is the Empire Diner right yes yeah right across you from the old Empire right across that side Ro no further no no summation you I'll rely on the application you need c variances as well we do need c variances but I'm sure you're going to agree with me that they're merging with the D variant because of the particular nature of those variances and the restaurant use yes it's related to the signage that this restaurant because it's not an office use or restaurant use requires do you need a sear for the for the footprint of the of the restaurant less than 2500 ft or something like that and I read that somewhere I believe that's correct is that correct yes okay let me just double check that apparently not the master of numbers any members of the public speaking opposition to this application support application sorry I just want to get an answer my question do you need a variance for that yeah looking it up Sor I thought you already got the answer I think you might was the size of the building size of the building I think is less than 2500 ft right yes still a circular yes because we've because we've added the C box to the building we're still underneath so that's why we I also think that kind of carries over with where where drive-through restaurants are conditionally permitted that is one of the conditions right so again this is not a where it's conditionally permitted so again I think the overall use variants would kind of carry that with it as well make sure we haven't missed anything this thing isn't taking on to become a drive-thru restaurant no way it's a different operation all correct I have a question please um I'm sorry okay um your signage will it'll be uh lit in any way yes because we didn't discuss that yes the signage will be internally illuminated okay thank you on the side are going to beit uh the pendant sign yeah and and the frontage uh the primary sign on the Frontage R track it's behind correct yeah and will they turn off it when the restaurant closes they go off or timer anything else we good any members of the public wish you speak in opposition in support there's no no members of the public to speak sorry what nobody here nobody here except M on back um no summation right I'll just rely on the application do we do we need a conference guys or someone make a statement why food is good food is good because you're taking a building that's empty that you're doing not much to it and you're putting it to use and it sounds like an interesting business and I'll be voting for it okay frame a resolution somebody or we want to instruct the uh the attorney to draft a resolution for the approval of us and the uh and the uh attorney yeah so mve second jtz with the conditions um from your engineer yes yes second toight J okay any discussion nor call R Bitz yes yes Jella yes Ted yes ready yes arane yes Sal is grander welcome to town thank you very much wish I was going to be here longer D chair congratulations we got to open up one down in Ocean County all right say I do believe um the uh you got a tremendous amount of senior citizens down there I I do believe we are starting to look and and Source locations down in bul Mom give me your exit Bobbi yeah that's you know route n it's got ites and minus 72 is yeah and you get a good seasonal business too in the summer time in the summer you got a great a great kick yeah we're we're uh expanding at a rate that I [Music] know listen if if anybody wants to go and have a drink I'm buying that's good it's up I'm not you're not buying I'm no I'm going to buy I'm buying a pleasure we just we want to go to Buffalo wings or you want to go next door to the are we on record still like I move weour Mo to ajour anybody okay John I understand John I love you man