good evening and welcome to the reorganization meeting of the township of pany Troy Hills Board of adjustment today is Wednesday January 10th 2024 and it is 7:32 p.m. announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and it is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 col 4-6 at SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings Act we're going to start off by the swearing of new board members who are or reappointments and appointments who are Dave klin as a regular member Chris mazarella regular member who will be swor in next week he's not able to make it tonight Loretta grani alternate number one and Santos Petty alternate number two okay Mr do I da kapan I Dave Kaplan do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the governments established in the United States and to the governments established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of The People Under The Authority of the people so help me God so help me God I do further solemnly swear I do further solemnly swear that I will impartially that I will impartially and justly perform and justly perform all the duties of the office of all the duties of the office of board of adjustment regular member Township of pany Troy Hills Board of adjustment regular member Township of pany Troy Hills according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability so help me go so help me go congratulations thank [Music] you letter swear but I will support the Constitution of the United States I will support the constition of the United States and the Constitution the state of New Jersey the constitution of the state of New Jersey and I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the governments established in the United States and to the governments established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people I the author of people so help me God so help me God I do further solemly swear I do further Solly swear that I will impartially and I will impartially and justly perform and justly perform all the duties of the offic of the duties of the office of board of adjustment alternate member number one alternate alterate Board of adjustment Board of adjustment alternate member number alterate member number one Township of P Troy Hill Township of P Troy Hill according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability so help me God so help me God congratulations [Music] came M I sure did I had my Michigan shirt on my your right hand and repeat after me see the game the constition of the state of New Jersey and that I will bear true faith and Al I do further I will impartially and justly andly perform all the duties perform all the duties of the office of kind of stuff you got my son my nephew son yes congratulations you taking your seat right my seat didn't you get a seat from Yankee Stadium I got four of them four yeah two of them are on my patio down the and the other two are robins oh all right aboard thank you congratulations all yes thank you okay so I am now going to take nominations for chairperson I nominate uh uh I'm happy to nominate Robert I Kan is Chairman second adjustment second ready nominations we close [Music] second all right and so can I have a motion for uh Mr irane to serve as board chairman motion second thank you burit yes bani yes josz Chaplan yes peddy yes ready yes willing okay okay okay um we're now going to take uh nominations for vice chair I would nominate David Kaplan for vice chair second move nominations be closed second okay uh motion for Mr Kaplan to serve as Vice chair second burkit yes brani yes josz Kaplan yes py yes ready yes yes hurricane yes okay and a motion for confirmation of plan board secretary this person here Zing board secretary second yeah I move orig second North buret yes grani yes josco Kaplan Petty ready will hurricane yes and then we're going to move on to the appointments SL reappointment of the board of adjustment professionals I nominate John CH to be our board planner second Jos SZ uh M all one uh also our engineer GPI I nominate CH Holloway second jitz and Mr Johnson Johnson and Johnson I nominate second Mr uh William Johnson second josz have roll call John burit yes grani yes Josh yes Kaplan so I just want to say one thing before I vote and this is nothing that I haven't said before but I I do want want the board to consider in the future um having the opportunity to fully vet any professional who is going to be voted on um prior to in well in advance to the night of the vote I I I recognize that uh politics is going to play a role I don't think it should on this board um I have nothing against um Mr Johnson I I think he's wonderful I look forward to working with him but I am hoping that the board reconsider the process for this specific position because it seems to happen more with this position at least in the last two years than it has with the other uh professional uh positions that we hold so um I am hoping the board consider that um with that said um because I've not had the opportunity to review uh Mr Johnson's credentials as great as he may be and again this is nothing personal I'm going to abstain um uh paty we go this Petty yes yes ready yes willing yes yes and uh motion to during the reorganization meeting okay so move start off the pledge of Alle pledge of Alle flag the United States of America the stand na go indivisible Li andice once at the beginning of okay here just a moment before the board starts I appreciate your support another year and I appreciate your support as well thank you for having me and I I appreciate I understand your comments Mr C but I I looking I look forward to working with all of you in the next year black board thank you okay at this point is there any member of the public has any business to be brought to this board that is not on the savings agenda I hear hear none see none um we have resolutions we have resolutions re resolution 2351 2352 are both A's and that's burkowitz Kaplan ready willins and irane someone want to move those two move them second and any discussion nor call the roll Burt yes Kaplan yes ready yes willing yes hurricane yes and we have application 2350 2353 2354 2356 and 2355 okay second any discussion call the roll bit jit yes Kaplan yes ready yes no correspondence l no correspondence okay we only have one application Mr O'Neal uh application 2313 uh I aat 745 R 46 C variant to construct the billboard [Music] sorry you have to Chairman Joseph this is an application for message sign at location 745 46 currently occupied by strip shopping [Music] [Music] CER just a little reminder about this this is on the group 46 down by the where the holiday is severely affected by W in the back see exhibit there buff we have approval put [Music] theill good evening good evening with this right can you raise your right hand please you Solly swear to tell the truth the whole truth and not but the truth I do state your name and spell your last name uh sure good evening it's William R vote Jr and it's V as in Victor o g like girl T like C Mr vot you have been before this board a few times already representing various Bill board developers I have you have been qualified as an expert for engineering for those applications uh I have your license is still in good standing that's correct I would submit Mr vote again as an expert for purp that that's he's acceptable is there there are new members of the board though do you want to go through a little bit of his credentials for their benefit I I can sure run through it sure um I have a bachelor's in science and civil engineering from Sunni Buffalo at New York um I am a licensed professional engineer in both uh New Jersey as well as New York and I am one of the owners and principles of l2a Land Design LLC and how many times have you testified before this particular board uh before this board um at least half a dozen on various applications they're not all Billboards uh some for uh njm I was here for a couple items for their parcion campus um I'll be back before your planning board shortly uh again for njm um uh coming up but I've testified uh going on 25 years throughout the state New Jersy thank you vot these are reproductions of the exhibits provided to the board already uh correct the the exhibit that I have up right now is the site plan set that was submitted as part of our application you walk us through we're uh sure this is uh drawing c-01 through c-05 it has a date of uh February 2nd 2023 and this is for a proposed offsite uh off premise multi message advertising sign at 745k 46 it's uh found on Lot 10 in Block 722 and it is in your B1 uh Highway development District um do you want me to mark that as an exhibit or could you please um reiterate the last revision date I just want to make sure is the same as our sure we have a I have a uh I have a date of February 2nd 2023 no I have a provision number one and is dated 112 73023 sure I have I have that set as well with me um that's the update for the reduction I was just going to go through the um process of what the original submission was versus revision one ask the chairman if he wanted to be presented that way let's go with what the application okay no problem I will just switch to those [Music] plansa just comment on what the revision sure the uh So the plan set that I have in front of you is the revised set revision one dated uh 11323 um this set shows a reduced uh sign it went from a 16 ft tall by 60t uh long uh multi sign to a 14 ft tall by 48 ft long board and it shrunk just by a foot in height we were at 55 ft and now we're at 54 ft so that that is the difference what was the purpose for that um we had time to analyze the uh the site um our DOT permit is for a 16x 60 because of the size of the site um the 16 X6 does adequately fit on the site um but through our analysis uh we found it more practical to go with a 14x 48 it's a more of a standard billboard size that you see uh throughout the state can you mark that sure [Music] yeah J done that plan is 11 what uh [Music] 11323 okay um so what I was going to do is uh just just to get you uh familiar with the site I have another exhibit which I'll label 82 it's a just an aerial image of the site we do not have that you do not have that uh A2 is just a Google Earth aerial image of the osed property uh as you can see it's a rectangular shaped uh property uh North is to the bottom of the page South is to the top um so it's along the southern side of Route 46 Route 46 traverses along the frontage of the property in an East and West Direction um West being to your right East being to your left uh the site is uh just over 4 Acres at 4.06 Acres um the site is a um it's a small uh retail strip center access uh to the site uh there are two driveways that access off of Route 46 um you have a multi- um access driveway along the uh Western portion of the frontage and then you have an egress only uh driveway along the U Eastern side of the proper just Sor just to the east of the property um there is a wetland area that's uh on partially on the property partially off the property um we have gotten uh already received permits from the d uh for the proposed construction of this billboard sign um and I'll get into that with a little more detail in a few minutes so under proposed conditions I'm going to flip back to A1 um on that easterly side of the property um just back from the ESS driveway we are going to uh locate that uh 14x 48 uh vshape double-side uh multi message billboard um it is 54 ft in height um we have a setback along uh the Route 46 um Corridor of 3015 ft I have a sidey yard setback of 27. 63 ft off the Eastern side um and then I have uh a very large uh setback to the rear and to the uh Western uh side setbacks they're 42291 ft and 295.50 ft um on your on the site plans uh we delineated the wetlands along the property basically the wetlands uh form a uh perimeter around the property um those wetlands are we put we submitted to the D for um uh letter of interpretation first to uh determine what the classification is for those uh the resource value for those Wetlands they're intermediate resource uh Wetlands so it uh requires a 50ft transition area or a buffer that 50 foot transition area we are within our foundation is within that 50 foot transition area so that prompted us to get a transition area waiver for redevelopment from the D I received that permit from them uh at the end of August of last year and that allows me to perform the disturbance for the foundation that's within that 50ft transition area or buffer so I have all that permitted already um is there any existing improvements in the transition area yes they were permitted um we opened all of that uh information that was uh permitted back when they constructed the center or did the addition to the center uh when the Harper Freight uh tenant went in so those improvements excuse me were all uh permitted uh and and verified with [Music] d so I'm just going to flip to um drawing co5 of that same exhibit A1 is just the sign elevation um so this just gives you a uh elevation of the proposed sign uh we are 54 ft in total height uh from the ground to the top of the sign it's a for again it's a 14t uh uh height sign with a three foot um apron below it um again to the property line along Route 46 I have 3015 ft uh and then to the actual uh pavement line um roughly 41 ft uh set back from the actual travelway of uh Route 46 what's the revision date I'm sorry what's the revision date on that particular page that that's the same that's the same correct could you please describe or show us on the plan how it impacts any parking spaces uh sure so I'm just I'm going to flip back to the site planine um where we're locating the the uh Foundation uh is going to be situated within an existing uh landscaped Island so it has no impact to any of the parking stalls uh if I go back to the aerial [Music] I don't know if you can if you can briefly see that but if you see this brown area at the end of the parking stall uh on the easterly side there is a uh there's a landscaped Island that I have sufficient room to uh and the existing parking is adequate ordinance it's not not Chang regarding Harbor Freight sure off the top of my head yeah I just was up for a uh plan note or something debating or indicating what the existing parking is and how it applies uh okay I could uh I could Oprah the prior approval uh and and we can add that to the plan that's not that's not an issue great but your response was there's no loss of parking spes no loss and parking spaces and we're protecting the foundation with uh four concrete ballar uh around the base so any um vehicle that's backing up or pulling into that last space uh there's a there's a a bumper basically before they uh would impact uh the the monopole foundation um what I can show you is just a couple of color [Music] elevations I'll label this as uh [Music] A3 uh A3 is um several color um elevations of the proposed uh multi message sign uh the first is I I believe it's 8 pages and I believe this was submitted uh to the board Mark okay 83 um what I'm going to do is I'm just the same picture is on the second page it just has a it has a scale to it is I think these were sub yes that's the package yes so if you switch to the second page it gives you a scale on the height um for the billboard and is that the revised 1448 that's correct that's correct the these uh these exhibits all um reference Harbor Freight lot uh Route 46 in parcion 14t by 48 ft digital Center Mount at 54 ft height uh so this is the westbound Direction um and what a driver will see from approximately 400 ft um along traveling along Route 46 so this would be the leftand read so a car traveling westbound along Route 46 and then if you switch uh if you go a couple more pages uh you'll get to the eastbound so what is that red line just to the right side of the that for the height sure it's just it's just visual so you can see the height so it's it's it's showing the ground elevation uh at the Harbor Freight site and then you're 40t to the bottom and 54t to the top and that's that's your 14 ft uh tall sign it's nothing really no it's it's just visual for your eye that's all L and then I'm just going to switch in if you go in towards the end packet it's probably page I believe it's page five five or six it's page six I believe this is the uh eastbound or right hand read so if you're traveling eastbound along Route 46 this is your read to your right hand side and again it shows uh at approximately a 400t distance along Route 46 you're backed by uh I believe you're backed by uh Kelly Kelly dinet um and again same graphic it shows the 54t uh height and 40 foot to the bottom of the sign so the signs behind that all the Harbor Freight sign and all the other building sorry sorry sorry is the existing sign going to be rised at all the existing pylon sign no that that stays in its current location there there's no impacts or changes uh proposed for that me up thank you free stand sign how much is the uh what like uh is it going to block that Harbor Freight no so the Harbor Freight sign is roughly the same height is as the actual building the Harbor Freight building they're both um pretty pretty even with each other and then we're going to be up above it so I'm I'm actually probably close to 20 ft above the top of the sign so all your exhibits show that sign that you're proposing be saying Harbor fre but but obviously it's going to have multi messages on it that's correct we the the artist just put that on there as a frame of reference since that that is what the property is but it's it's not it's not for Harbor Freight this is an off premise premise advertising sign this is not for Harbor Freight it is not for Harbor Freight I got I got corre and I I apologize if that's misleading it it's it's not a Harbor Freight sign sure looks like it I guess in theory could be could be they want to pay gu so it could be but they own this property is that correct your sign going uh the owner of the property um I say the the owner is 745 Route 46 uh investors uh r one two and three so they're the ones are going to receive the revenue from this sign if approv I'm not involved with the with the lease documents but yes if I had to make an educated guess that that would be it thank you good business are we going to have someone Joe we have someone describe the sign I mean we're all assuming it's an L LED sign with all the bells of whistles that we've heard before that's correct it's a LED sign it has a series of dodes so it's uh it's three LED dodes um in a cluster um per each panel uh it's a red green and and blue diode um that puts the message on the side detail about the design oper the brightness and Etc stuff you sent me to yes [Music] Stu have for the questions any any other questions by the board I I just have one please sure [Music] um do we know how many other companies or properties are going to be on this sign messages how many messages how many messages thank you uh sure I think we're going to get into that in uh later detail but um the message is uh allowed to stay on the sign for 8 seconds so it's a what what they'll refer to as an 8sec flip so the St will sign will remain static for 8 seconds and then under a second it will switch to the next message sign thank you welcome any questions I say do you know uh did this company or company that you're Tes for have any other signs of precipi now because we approved a couple I I just don't remember who they were for we have one other application we were before you at 100e 46 uh but there were some uh questions about the application and we had to uh regroup that's the Zone boundary dis I'm sorry it was the Zone boundary that's correct any other questions m board any members of the public have any questions of this witness on the testimony given this evening I hear none and see none thank you thank you very [Music] much you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I so swear uh for the record Brian inanda spelling up my last name INT in IND D OA I'm a principal with uh negli group and I represent the Traffic Division of uh meglia [Music] group yes um specific parcion I think the last time I was here was for a a prism property application where if you have an overage on parking over 10% you have to justify it and I that was a couple years ago uh otherwise um for myself I'm out three times a week whether representing board such as this one or testifying on behalf of applicants and I've been doing that for approximately 17 years so in terms of New Jersey municipalities I think I've been in 120 of the 500 or so that are here in New Jersey um and I'm currently licensed in state New Jersey as a professional engineer I went to NGIT for my undergrad as well as my Masters he's being offered in what area a TR thank you got okay decided to leave the sign to you oh sure so in in general context um uh an outdoor uh billboard is under the um jurisdiction of the NJ doot uh the permit has been issued part of that process is that we have to go to the local board and weigh in on that for this particular application um as I understand it this is a use that's not allowed in the zone that we are going to situate the billboard uh so we'll offer the testimony for that um basically the review that I would do for a um the safety the aspects of the new billboard would be what NJ do does in their Outdoor Advertising Bureau and um they have issued that permit uh and the things that we have to hold to is that um the sign location has to be a sufficient buffer away from the live travel Lane so you don't have to put a guard rail system around it which we don't have to uh because I think we're 30 foot step back from the live lane or the RightWay as um Mr vo had testim provideed testimony uh the sign itself um as we had intimated before uh in the state New Jersey uh you have to do an 8sec hold or flip meaning that um the sign has to have a static message for 8 seconds 8 Mississippi next message then next message um it depends on how much space or demand they have for advertising it could be that holds for a couple messages because there's not other space or they they would have like advertise here but um they have to hold to that and for me I like to time them as I go along the highway uh and count the 8 seconds to see if they're in compliance for other Billboards and for the for the most part uh they're right on uh uh if not a little bit longer especially along the rout three and uh 46 Carter um in terms of Permitting these myself um I've done studies to see um after a billboard is built um is there any uh change in the um uh distracting this or accident rate at that particular location I've done it for a route 22 and um by Kenworth as well as um just for my own edification uh we did one for the Clifton zoning board we reviewed it and uh for a new LED sign and it seems to be no correlation with uh uh introduction of a billboard um with an LED uh message panel uh to add to the accident rate and that's easily verifiable um by using uh safety Voyager which is a compilation of State uh police records and um most Municipal professionals have access to that or um uh Traffic Safety officers so we did not I don't see any correlation if you introduce a um LED uh 8sec hold uh doesn't add to um uh driver distraction there's been no correlation uh specific to this site it's well situated from a traffic perspective because it's at the um egress driveway which is a Right Turn Only CU in this section of Route 46 it's a divide Highway with a median so you can't make a left out so uh you are underneath the sign so you're not making a driver decision uh to go into the site that decision has already made at the other driveway so it's only uh right turn out only driveway and this is just at the beginning of the gore where Ro uh 46 splits for a little bit and then it comes back together so um all things being considered I think the dot process is very thorough and I don't see from a traffic uh perspective uh how this would add to driver distraction which I think is very important to relate in terms of site safety and functionality it's already being tucked in uh by a landscape Island um and as uh Bill had said there's going to be four ballards for incidental protection of the foundation um which if you can get to the foundation itself and column that column will cause more damage than you know uh it's it's belt in suspenders a safety buffer which is good to have um and you're not coming into the driveway at speed because again that is the egress driveway only so it's not you're coming off 46 to make a decision to come into the Harbor Freight uh Plaza there um yesing your analysis the visibility of the billboard itself yeah so uh basically the um the billboard will have um illumination levels that are uh it's readable uh of course but not to the point where it's overbearing or uh causes a driver glare or distraction because that would be the opposite of what we're trying to do is put in a safe billboard uh then the billboard has built into the circuitry I believe a 10% Flex versus um very bright conditions and evening conditions so it does have an auto adjust for that so that not only is it tuned uh to the specific site for illumination but there is a 10% uh pullback uh in the evening because you don't need as much illumination level uh for that does it shut off overnight no not in this instance no because that's that's that would be sold space I guess and you know and it's going to be illuminated on both sides obviously yeah so it's it's Westbound and 46 are going to have a Clear Vision my my biggest concern right now location is and the one exhibit on on the signs there's signs lower showing the shopping center and the park and ride things okay uh this is on uh this one if I may no not that one no guess wrong the East one yeah on on the eastbound one and to me bear with me yeah bear with me too the question might be let's start with start with either one of those but that one and the next one over also okay and with all the power nothing's going to be happening with all those power lines no changes and all that okay it looks like a cluttered sight to me for stick that sign in behind the other thing the road signs are below the green ones turn I think the next exhibit might illustrate my point a little more [Music] fully no it yeah it was so if I'm driving that van right below that green sign is blocking my normal Drive eye vision this is way above that so that's going to when it's flashing it has to distract me to be looking up at that I'm sorry but I I right so then with the 8sec hold that's what it's supposed to give me time to do it it gives you time to read and then if you're in this Con Vision the generally uh when we design traffic signals and signs as Traffic Engineers we take like a ° angle for a line of sight which is like a natural angle to see stuff so in this instance you're just to The Verge where you're looking at the bottom of the sign and you've already registered because you've pretty much seen what you wanted to see maybe 300 foot back and that if you strike that line um uh from from your driver height that's about a 500t read and then you were able to cycle through that was your sight line on the other side yes you you said that it was 35 ft for the road uh whatever 30 I think I said 5 46 ft from the road well Bill testified I think 30 foot offset from the RightWay line from from the vertical face from the vertical face of the sign the Clos this is roughly 30 ft it's a little over 30 if you want to know to the foundation it's much further back than that oh yeah that's what you had on versions of your site plan you had y 4 if you go back to A1 it's uh 54.91 ft from the right of way to the center line of the foundation okay so if you want to you want to call it you want to call it at least 50 ft okay so the actual face of the sign is 30 something feet correct it's [Music] 30 3015 so 30 fo2 in how far what's the distance distance between the two signs oh good question uh distance between the two signs I'm flipping back to A1 um let me just grab my scale so the current Harbor fre [Music] sign just over 100t okay and your testimony is that of course the sign is higher people see it from further away and as they get closer and they have to deal with signs of pulling into trip mall then they focus down correct because your natural eye conov vision is generally held um for design purposes at 20° uh out from your um Center of your eyeball the number of signs so I'm looking at that picture we had up before looking eastbound the beer trugs coming out of the driveway yeah that one the number of signs not including the signs on the building itself the number of signs I am counting in this one picture including the billboard is 13 do you find that to be excessive personally I I believe that's professionally no I believe that for a commercial area which 4 6 is uh maybe one of the first commercial highways in state New Jersey that that is an expected landscape so I I professionally this highway is made for commercial purposes and this is where you should encounter signs of this density is there a point where a small area can be saturated or oversaturated with signage to the point where it does become a potential distraction um well if you're a habitual driver on 46 you screen out over time what you need to see right if you're looking for one of the businesses like uh lazz or that's in the shopping plaza then you're looking for that specifically so that goes with the driver distraction uh studies that I've read about placing a billboard that it doesn't add to that because the board is not a directional sign it's there's like it's on two different uh information channels that you'll be processing one is that I need to get to this site uh of course I need to get to Harbor Freight uh and the other one is this is just a general background billboard and I believe everyone has the expectation that a billboard by and large uh we call this offsite for a reason because um with the way the uh law is written is that you're allowed to have an on-site billboard you know depending on the town you're in and what the the zone is but specific to the offsite because it's not associated with any business in the Plaza then uh it's not an unexpected um things um an unexpected uh L feature to see uh as you drive it's funny I'm sorry it's funny you say that because I noticed my colleagues are concerned about the density of the signs and I was thinking if you're ever going to put a sign like this this is where it goes right there's no residential and I guess I I drive that road every day and I'm like numb from it so I didn't even think that it was a lot of signs and I think you're right yeah but the two do not have to be mutually exclusive Yep this is a much better spot yes than other areas you also don't have cars going 80 M an hour 90 mph on 287 all of a sudden there's this big sign you're right so to me it is actually the right place for yeah I I I I am just looking at this and it's it's just a very unfortunate angle on this picture evence I mean it's already a an aesthetically poor area no fault of your own it well before that image was was con conceived I'm just wondering if that is adding or detracting from the way that area looks well um I'll defer to the board member to my left that you know it's to me it's it's where it's an expectation where you would have a billboard along a commercial Carter and um like when you go up the turnpike uh they are intermittent up the turnpike uh they're kind of unexpected at times but in this area I think it's appropriate and when I was looking at safety Voyager in this particular location the density of accidents were not more than the state average for for number of accidents in this area so it's not like it's um uh pre-loaded with accidents it seems to be adequately working it's it's a Jug Handle a little bit to the east brings you back around into the other shopping plazas there's a direct right into or a channelized right into the um um holiday in area so it seems like all the features that I want safety wise for a uh a a traffic um for a divided highway they're already here I mean I have an egress driveway only I have a Jug Handle I have a near side right uh turn lane channelized so everything like is already programmed for safety in this particular location and you you vandalized the data it's coming in as a normal stretch Road yes the density of the signs is not causing right unusual number of accidents or greater number of AC what I find is that uh State highways that have a lot going on in terms of egress drug handles uh drivers tend to be on their best behavior because they have a lot to process and uh so this was indicative of that type of um driver experience Mak sense I have a question will this sign be visible at all from Route 80 um uh maybe but I think that would be a stretch you know it's not intended for Route 80 but 287 behind it it would maybe 287 yeah I think that would be not 287 it's all you know it's it's interesting because the first sign application we ever had about 30 years ago was for behind the holiday in maybe John MC Dunder remembers that one do you John y okay and we turned it down and I couldn't understand why the what it was all W yeah but they had the right to move I don't think so oh well anyway we turn they got the approve from White L to build okay no they're in a transition area and it's already been okay compromised right I have no fur questions for this just one more from a traffic side just just for me I mostly but I go on that route a lot go over to that have water but you're not showing as further eastbound there so there's a light just past the current Harbor Fate sign that does the loop the traffic signal with the Dr handle there also left hand lane to get on 8 the right hand lane to say on 46 uh there's a lot of decisions I think drivers are making in that area okay and uh this flashing sign every 8 seconds won't distract them at all from making their decisions as they're going that is specifically right specifically to answer uh that question that's why it is 8 seconds it's an eight and hold 8 seconds if you're driving is a pretty long time all right thank you any other questions by the board any members I know I just I yeah that's okay uh you get older you think slower but speak for yourself I am speaking for myself um speaking to himself now you forgot your question the distance between the two signs you said was 100 ft yes is there any uh I guess I don't know calculation or uh study or standard as far as how the distance that should be between uh such prominent signs well I would say that when I do dot permits for commercial properties like like in the 40 fo 6 quarter I've yet to see a review comment from the NJ do which is their primary concern is safety they don't really care about what I'm putting into the plaza but um I you have to see a comment that uh sign for shopping the the pilot sign for shopping plaza a and then you go another 100 ft for shopping plaza B maybe you want to consider um toning down both sides i' I've never had that in terms from a safety perspective okay it's good to know the issue you really have here is most of the signage in this section is not conform to Township regulation that's true especially under the side of the RO it's been there for long before there really were regulations and they just redid them and redid them and redid them and that's really I think we a lot of her grandfather how I mean the the Lots don't conform uh the uses more or less new but that's about it let me ask you a question did you have any input in terms of where it was positioned on this site no I mean they did their homework for me because they did it uh no I didn't have the opportunity cuz but nor would I need to because I'm at the right hand out that's exactly where I want would want it to be if I was looking at you get involved with the zoning process you only get involved with do permitting and uh with the billboard section and right you know that's John's bwick not mine thank God any questions by members of the public I Hear n see I'm sorry maybe if the sign will move back to conform to the setback requirement which is 80 ft what would happen in terms of your analysis I think that the sign would be kind of worthless because it would be set back and I would lose the cone of vision that I was talking about through the building you would yes to a certain degree yes at 500 ft back or a 20° up how high how high I didn't I hadn't done that I don't have the benefit of that calculation but it seems you don't know how high the building is do you this building uh to me with the power pit uh there's one know I don't I don't know I didn't measure that yeah all right approximately 23 Mr it's probably not part of this obligation but the other thing all we see on this sign right now is the word Harbor Freight big and bold are we going to have some testimony as to what kind of clients are going to be messaging there what kind of messages are going to be up there was that sh Ian no it's not for it's not for you to answer yeah I mean based on my experience it has to be uh but it's not for you to answer not a traffic issue really not not really I mean it's but it has to be something that is not I did witness for the particulars of the sign right that's I'm asking a question ask talk about it's what you would expect uh a lot what we see uh for advertising you know it's your common experiences carry that question we Mo on is it Joe is there someone here that is going to say to us you have uh public uh purpose space we won't sell cigarettes no pornographic uh Mr MC's good okay thank you that's for question that's it y next witness thank you for your time thank [Music] you [Applause] compl with handouts make sure you qualify this guy okay you've never testified before never okay uh we swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but yes I do say your name as by your last name please sure hi everyone happy New Year John mc mc capital z n o g and I'm the project planner yes but even though you've been here many times because there are members of the board would you please please just give a little sure thing um Welcome to our our new members uh my name is John MCD my office is right up the road on 101 jalta Drive off of rout 10 I'm a licensed professional planner here in the state of New Jersey that license is current it's in good standing um I testify before boards just like this throughout the state of New Jersey um on a nightly basis so I get to see the full cross-section um but I've been here many times as well and that license is current it's in good standing um I also have the national aicp that's current and in good standing and um again i' I've testified before hundreds of boards throughout the state and your own Reserve parking spot in this lot here for better or worse it's what I do all the time he's got his own coffee cup are you and he's acceptable Mr M you've had an opportunity to examine the application for the board this evening yes I have you're fully familiar with local ordinances and master plan yes I am can you please summarize for the board how this application is in detecting those do here's your conclusions regarding their ability sure we're here in the B1 Zone District which is one of your permissive zones there's a long list of Commerce oriented uses that could go here I won't read them all off in fact we put together a report uh that I think was submitted with the application packet and it lists those uses in there but just some of the things that could go in here and again as you've heard is a is a nonresidential area but we're looking at retail restaurants brew pubs theaters auto repair shops auto dealerships training facilities uh packing and Fabrication facilities contractor uh businesses lumber yards storage yard storage warehouses are permitted uses in the zone District so there's a wide abundance of uses that could go here signs are allowed uh we call them on premises signs signs that will advertise for the business that's there if this was was advertising for Harbor Freight this would be a permitted use in the zone uh but this is going to adverti for what we call off- premises businesses and that's why it's before the board because that's not permitted in your B1 Zone District So to that when we talk about off premises advertising we're talking about National advertising campaigns that's correct talking about local advertising campaigns local reers local attorneys whatever there's no exclusion as to who can advertise on a on a billboard it is a message board that's the public P purpose that it serves it's a form of communication in fact some Doc documents will call it the oldest form of of mass media that's out there the way that uh businesses can get the word out the word the way that non-b businesses can get the word out as well such as churches schools Health uh facilities and the like um will advertise or put messages on on these boards so part of the message is also that this board's going to be displaying our Public Service messages this applicant is committed to work with the township and local groups no matter who they may be to provide free advertising for their businesses and they also will post for free emergency massach yes and that those are two key points we call them PSAs public service announcements really at the discretion of the community announc Public Service events your your local police organization having a function um some sort of Civic event uh certainly can go up there on the board as well and then emergencies can be preemptive last night we had um weather alerts all over the place that could be preemptive um an amber alert a fugitive alert all of those things can be posted on a billboard and become an instrument of Emergency Services in in and that's the benefit of real-time messaging which is what these digital displays will do as opposed to those older static displays that were one time paint uh then they were glue messages and then they became vinyl and this is just the latest form of displaying messages on a board when the township has to or would like to broadcast something let's say it's an emergency right police want to broadcast a message on there what's that process do they there's a number they call I assume and do they speak to a person and what's the turnaround time on getting that emergency message up on that sign I don't know that answer we can probably get that for you before we're done I haven't been asked that before but I do know that it is preemptive it there there's probably some sort of agreement with the police department where they have access to it and there's a fugitive alert that it's probably instantaneous I've got a little experience is getting formalized before was like the wild west everybody had had an idea you have a call you have a number maybe there's a person there maybe there isn't a person there and they basically get it into the police department because that's 24 hours uh because otherwise they would clerk's office well what happens itself yeah that's that's my point yeah it's a process the town has to work out because we have four now maybe EMS service well part of what we say here is as part of agree to do that we're going to agree to coordinate with the police department the OEM office here in town to set up a system that allows those enemies to get messages right on the billboard 24 hours a day yeah if something comes up like we had that storm overnight a couple nights ago they'll be able to get touch if the roads out of action or whatever message they need to get out we'll make sure that happen it's the emergency messages that needs to great coordination you know public benefit ones are you know you get them up there yeah they'll they'll coord they get that thing so you're agreeable to have a uniform or standardized process for the township yes okay part of a condition and just to go back to the earlier question that the board asked about how the I'll call it the role Works they're they're eightc displays instantaneous change to the next one generally they're on rolls of Cycles where you would get eight messages in a row and then you go back to the first one so board member a would have the first eight seconds then board member B all the way up to number eight and then goes back and that happens all day long that that role or that cycle it's different for each operator but eight is usually the number of sequential that I say okay so again I think the positives of this land use are pretty clearcut I know the board heard a number of these applications but site suitability this site is well suited for an outdoor advertising sign based on that engineering testimony that you heard that the site can accommodate this sign without any interference of the circulation or the parking that is presently there it's a spacious site we're looking at four greater than four acres on Route 46 358 ft of Frontage that's generous Frontage along that Highway it's a developed retail center it's an area that really opens up along Route 46 with commercial uses with the big shopping center across the street the hotels and and then of course the string of commercial we are remote from residential if we look to the West you've got and I put that in the report here the tow houses over at Hunter Ridge are almost 1500 feet away and then the nearest townhouse to the east over at Four Seasons is almost 1,000 ft away so we've got good horizontal separation from residential uses here it's a nice commercial Pocket um I don't know Joe if we want to show these These are actually you hand those up as we're looking at the the negative criteria I think it's important for the board to see these I call them reverse view photographs we went out there today we floated a drone up in the air from the location of where the board would be to its highest point that 54t height and basically spun it around so you're going to see the reverse of looking at the sign but basically what the sign is looking out at and I think you'll see there's not that clutter that gets a little warped when you look at it from the vantage point of the [Music] [Music] ground and as they're being handed out A5 is just going to be a series of five photographs again taken with that drone up at 54 ft and we've just basically spun it around clockwise holding it stationary doesn't look as clutter from up above you can see it elevating the sign helps loosen it up for sure and this would be from the peak of the sign this is at the top of that 14t panel may I ask what time this was taken so he was out there I can get you the exact time um but I know he was out there around 2:00 3:00 [Music] today so those tow houses up going westbound they're now going to see this well those tow houses are the nearest townhouse is 1,450 ft away okay are they going to see it uh there will be visibility I'll call it filtered visibility given the plant things that are there uh from this vantage point the windows are are minuscule the building at the sign itself will start to saturate with everything else that's around it from this vantage point so isn't there a big burm by Ridge that there they're separated lot lot of vegetation because you I don't even remember but I can see I can see the the town homes yeah so I don't care how much vegetation there is I know there is most of it's the buffer along the highway you know got buildings and everything in between and you have headlights coming at you if you're seeing the sign you're seeing the headlights yeah I'm I'm picture one so the big power power line Tower across the street there actually higher than much higher and to give you all a little Advantage as to height a couple years ago I think it was when we were doing the Whole Foods they were looking for a 50 foot high sign and I drove around I think we found a couple of 50F Footers on your older shopping centers including the Arlington Plaza uh right across the street there so you can see the Arlington Plaza sign which I think is a 50 foot or so we're about the same height I think we're slightly higher than that with our with our Peak so that gives you a little perspective there you got a 50 footer right across the street here as well one by Home Depot sign it looks like they have signs on the uh the old Kmart building already yeah Marshals Marshals and so that's uh that's the first page looking to the west and then of course frame number two we're now spinning to the north and you get a sense of the shopping center and all you see are non-residential uses and the point here is it's arranged in a V configuration so you're really looking at the the nose of the sign from from this Vantage Point not really the it won't be illuminated that way correct and then the third frame we're now spinning around to looking to the east um again the target audience here is the westbound traffic and you can see that there are some Town Homes they're almost 1,000 ft away I say the nearest one is 975 ft away similar buffering similar bming really to protect those homes from the highway the highway is there this land use is basically following the highway and trying to optimize and maximize its distance from from those homes billboard is on both sides right there's what on yes uh frame number four we're now looking to the South back towards Route 280 80 back there there and this is the back of the sign so no illumination from this end and then the last photo we just kind of gave you a top down and we put a little star a little Aster where the sign was going to go in that bullnose Island just to show and emphasize what Bill had shown you that this is not going to result in loss of parking loss of circulation um basically the two uses can coexist without either one interfering with the other and importantly the applicant doesn't only need for a use that's not permitted in the zone but also for two uses where only one use is allowed your ordinance calls a billboard of principal use it's not an accessory use so you actually will have two principal uses here the test that we always look at with two principal uses is just to make sure that those two uses don't interfere with each other and I think the positioning here proves that that's the case uh the sign is located based on respect to the wetlands to the wetlands transitioning area and also with respect to the established site as it exists now um there is D6 height relief to elevate this sign to 54 ft where 35 ft would be the maximum that's allowed in the zone we think that the basis for that is founded by the evidence that we've given you that lifting that sign a little higher lessens that clutter and again promotes clearer visibility of the sign safer V visibility and readability of the sign um without creating a substantial impact here given the heights of those other structures in the area um all said based on the testimony before me um I think the positives here would substantially outweigh the negatives in terms of the D1 use relief the D1 dual use relief uh the D6 height relief and then there also is that c relief for setback where the sign at its closest point is going to be 30 feet from the road 80 feet is the minimum that's required for a building this is not a building per se it's basically a sign on a stick if you will or on a on a pole so it doesn't have that same mass as a as a building and in that regard we think the height here and the setback will not violate any of the planning goals for adequate light air and open space um to that extent I think the applicant has met its burden based on the evidence before you um I'll rest upon what we put on the report as well and happy to elaborate on on anything [Music] any questions of Mr McDonna no I'm a little confused but um these are just C variances that we have to get no no no there's a D1 all right because it's not on here it says only C on our sheet but it's also a d that's why we're here right but on our sheet it just says ranting a c VAR that was my error you're actually moving on three d's here one is for sign type that's not permitted in the zone the second D is another D1 to have two uses on one site and then the D6 to have a height that exceeds the maximum allowed by more than 10t or more than 10% and 35 is allowed for buildings and we're at 54 ft so are these signs allowed in any Zone in our toown yes you're you do have signs that are allowed in the off the zone and that's the has be has to be a principal use though right don't you have to have a property that that would have nothing else on it no that I that I don't know I don't know if that's going to just double check that or no shaking his head yes I believe that is an issue and also the way the sizing of the Lots sizing of the Lots yeah it's got to be so many acres or something the only lots available that size those positions are H Hall waste something next to the waste yeah those are your p lw5 and your O2 zones and I agree when you apply the 12 or so criteria that knocks out pretty much every site except for the government sides when do you know when those uh do you know when that was done 2014 recent pretty recent it was a result of these of the La suit over the holiday inside it's right Joe it's 10 years now part of settl of lawsuit to how to adopt that ordinance dages so there had to be some discussion or understanding that they were avoiding those signs to be allowed on property along highways I don't know the story after the adoption of the ordinance they did otherwise they would have out too they adopted an ordinance then repealed the ordinance right then adopted this did they do it two steps or I I was involved with that mitigation John the the sign is now going to be the edge of the sign will be 30 feet and some inches off of the 46 rer one correct yes and I was just looking get the surveys here and is I haven't been out this site in a long time over year I do not remember that island that we're going to put this in but it's there the edge of the parking lot it's where the parking lot ends yes I asked a question to the traffic engineer whether or not he could push his sign a little further back from 46 and he wasn't sure of the height of the building the uh Freight building the ARA Freight building we also had to uh to answer that question more fully I would like to consult with my engineer specifically on the gra of the DP he's got relieve on a a impr improved transition area correct I do I have a transition area waiver for redevelopment and that's uh that that piggybacks on the initial permit that the Harbor Freight had gotten or the property had gotten for the uh addition correct wasn't wasn't that perit where it's already a parking line that's correct so to move it a little bit further back I doubt we going to jeopardize you permit I that would impact my parking I just switch where the pole is going to go now would become a parking space and the no I sorry I didn't mean to cut you off but I I wouldn't have enough room to swap a parking space on the end I would impact the egress driveway out this I'm going away from the road no I understand that if I push back this way I would way back I'm just talking about maybe 20 ft so I would be in a parking space and then I could not make this island into a parking space I'm too close if you look on your site plan I get it okay I highlighted a red line and that site can't lose any parking places no I don't believe so but I'll I'll prove that out I'll prove that out for you um i'' got a lot of the size of back so Prime spaces are kind of limited the size building but all you're not going to see is the pole yeah you're not you're still going to see the sign or maybe you won't see the sign as well kind of kind of addressing somewhat what Dave was talking about it's just the standard Old State Highway clutter you know a lot of signs that were there they've been there for 40 50 years how much do you add to that if setting it back changes the view scope I'm not so sure it does but uh John you what did you comment yeah um your justification the the building itself uh I believe is also non-conforming as to setb 60 some odd feet or so and if you look at that frame number one uh you can see that the building immediately to the west of that is even closer right so there are I'll say in intrusions into the front yard in terms of greater mass the the buildings themselves and also if if it helps the Board just by comparison with the other zones where the sign would be allowed the minimum setback requirement is 20 ft the maximum is 60 ft so this proposal here is at 30 ft which would conform with that minimum if it was in the zone where it's allow okay any other questions of Mr McDon no any members of the public have any questions of Mr McDon I hear none you see none I have no further witness no further Witnesses um do you want a sum or do you want to uh let me see are there any members of the public who wish speak in support of this application please come [Music] forward I'll be very quick my name is Frank kahill s that the testimony that you about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes did your name and give your address to Frank kahill 90 East Hy Road pipan I am Executive Board member of the pran area Chamber of Commerce and also the chairman of precip Economic Development and I have been working with the one sign on 287 to give PSAs to the township of pacian and they've been very Cooperative so I'm looking forward to work with this sign uh vendor to receive PSAs for the town could you explain to us how that works um because we there was a question well with the police and fire it's a little bit different because that's immediate exposure what what I have to give can go up today tomorrow next week um I have the dimension of the sign I create artwork and I submit art artwork to the company they put it up it's very simple okay thank you I I must might probably should have asked Mr McDon this question uh on messaging uh so I I think you made a comment sir that uh there's no restriction on what can be set on this sign did I hear that correctly no as to who in terms of a particular business or whatnot but I agree the board can certainly impose reasonable restrictions the word I usually see is inappropriate content it's very broad-based and can certainly drill down um obscenity um words of hate um is that our result isn't that the vendor's job to to do that on one of the other applications we have a manual of the lighting process the message process message process and what they will not do right and it was quite comprehensive so maybe your client can look at that and we will uh we sees fit to approve this application we will submit to your professionals a an outline and a guideline as to what type of messages will'll be provided we tell you right now no inappropriate uh content would be allowed on this SCH no war uh haven't seen from a business standpoint too uh the company's obviously in business to sell advertising and messaging for through advertising so the PSA part I don't know who to ask this question but is there something in the agreement we have in the other things guidelines that says that that will be so much time allocated to it or is it how does that work it's on demand it's on demand so if but if I have multiple things on demand okay uh and I have 25 advertisers paying me money how do I determine who goes first is a public service stuff Trump not who goes first because you're cycling messages to changing audience but all of those PSAs will be accommodated all of them and the uh sure any any anything municipality any Chamber of Commerce no I know it's not that crowded now but Chamber of Commerce any any local organization any Lo any local organization is that delineated in in our agreement local community organizations The Usual Suspects katus rotary Lions the BFW W those types of enemies I no local any [Music] local if there's a local chapter of the daughters of the Confederacy I think they're probably going to have a problem outside of that I don't but any 501c3 or 502 C3 would be well said right you subject to the appropriateness of the message they're not my client's not going to put up messages to antagonize groups and he gave full speech so is dispensary uh marijuana dispensary inappropriate I don't think so it's well that's why I'm asking because he said inappropriate I think might personally think it's inappropriate but it's well that's why I'm asking it is it's by L you can't advertise cannabis on a goboard I don't know if you can in a magazine either no you cannot so and yeah there are guidelines the state is done just like cigarettes cigarettes liquor I'm not sure liquor you don't about liquor I don't know about liquor I suggest you get a copy of this manual that was filed with one of your competitors and you'll comply with it we going to let Mr O'Neal Su now or you just theard for attention here this evening a Prett comprehensive application we have shown you that group 46 especially is appropriate for these types of sign uh the commercial nature of the district I think it needs to be more commercial than it is it needs to revitalized 46 parts of and things like this actually so I would hope that the board thank you uh motion to go conference so move all in favor I anyone oppos okay we have a starter sure I think uh it was summed up well I think if there's any ever a place to put a a sign up that is the place you're not near any residential it's already lit it's already you know cars are not zooming by speeding the people know where they're going if not they're paying attention to where they need to go the 8 seconds was explained well the fact that that you go from high to low as you get closer makes sense to me you're going to adhere to the uh requests of the board to for the guidelines of what you're putting up there so I will be voting yes I believe is appropriate place for the billboard location uh since it is mutual benefit for the town residents as well as the business people and I'm in FA of this I'll look of the comments uh one comment I would like to asked all the of chairman or whoever we we have these sign requests I think we we've agreed we've already approved three kinds of signs of of this nature and how many more do we have coming it's not it's not part of the decision tonight but it will be part of the decision moving forward I'm sure but the town has an obligation to allow a certain number is that correct is that is that what is what is this certain distance between it's the distance I know the distance between got to be at least a mile no it's 3,000 ft between digitals th ft between stat they still bu they have to be in a non-residential z so wherever want it wherever residential zoning is along the state of federal highways which is and isn't part of the Town isn't there restrictions at inter of oh off the ramps ramps and so ft off and 3,000 ft may not be if you go in 3,000 ft West there may not be an appropriate spot for a sign maybe there's the answer is as many as they could fit that's probably the answer by virtue of approving this one we are blocking future signs 3,000 ft each Direction 15 everyt 15 and well this is 3,000 ft in each Direction okay now they could put a static in between but I can't believe they still static do come out with the wallpaper and the ladders come on okay roll uh Mr will your answer was I'll be voting for V for it Mr burz um I'm probably going to vote for it but I have a question yeah to the whole nature of these signs yeah after hearing where they're allowed in town should we be hearing this or should we be saying to the app they need to go to the council and has to change the zoning War I mean because comes a point where I think changing the it comes a point where would wouldn't it be so such a complex rule you know a set of rules the the fact of the matter is you've got a lot of state iway and Highway Commercial Business locations and that's where these things go yeah but town is in zoning according to that yeah but if the zoning doesn't have a a footprint in reality that's why we're here it's not going to be it's not going to be a good audience I mean I mean I mean I understand you have to understand John chck wrote that ordinance 40 years ago my God and it's been buttoned up justce and that's about it something wrong with they did something in 14 that yeah I know SS which turns out turns out to be nothing I I didn't say that no I did no they added some uses they they got much more practic but the the fact the fact is just TFI to that the only place in zone for these signs now is Town property well I'm not sure that's he he gave an estimate I bet he's right I think I think I'm just looking at the I'm looking trying to at the whole picture and the whole picture screams to me change the zy ordinance I think I think you're correct why why don't you go to him with that' be happy I'll be right behind you B well way behind I know I know it probably goes de years maybe we should be making a recommendation it's good idea planning board sometimes makes recommendations for zoning change you going to do the the reports to the to the council this year what reports the report we're supposed to do every year that we haven't done for how many years a couple of years okay nothing we have nothing to report they I'm I'm voting yes t c yeah I'm voting yes I I I think this is It's Not Perfect by any means but it's one of the better spots that's come before this board for sure and if by putting it in a better spot it secures 3,000 ft each direction from another board coming before this board um then I think that it's the right thing to do so I'll be voting [Music] yes I'm sorry Mr Petty I forgot your name already Mr Petty you want to make a comment or whether you would be voting in favor uh no thank you for asking yeah m is right so yeah no I think all the experienced leaders spoke better so nothing to say and um I've learned on this process today today is my first day I'm not really sure I should be asking this but this is I'll be so happy if I'm sitting over there all these leaders approved or almost said nothing so if you can uh comment on that board pry to be in parip for monthly once that would be so nice of you guys thank you joh oh well um I think it'll be a distraction um I think the um Zoom shots or the U shots that Mr MOG has shown us I think it will be seen from the homes um I don't want Route 46 is congested with so many different signage um and I think this will just be a distraction uh to the uh to the drivers um I'm going to be voting no on this thank you my personal opinion is I don't like these signs okay but my realistic opinion or my realistic comment is they're there there's going to be a limit on how many will be we we'll be able to put in town um this looks and and I was here 30 some years ago when we turned down the holiday ins sign which would would have been a much better sign first of all they didn't have Electronics in those days and secondly it was hidden from everything you couldn't see it except if you were on Route 80 so I I will be voting in favor of it um again personal opinion they they bother me as I drive down the road it's not going to make this area look any better I'm sorry it's not going to make the look area but it's but it's the but if it's it's an okay spot okay not great it's an okay spot and it prevents anything for 6,000 right well three each Direction 3,000 each Direction um it's interesting we didn't take into account these Town Homes went on a pre different application we took it into account Town Homes across the highway that were just about equidistance to the ones to the east here but there's so there's so much light on this road with headlines age that that actually weighed into my decision motion to come out of conference second all in favor I post do we want to uh vote authorize the attorney to draw up a resolution sure would that be better Mr so we make sure we get all we made make that sounds great put you to work already huh who's going to make that motion I move I move for the attorney to draw up a second Mr ready second uh roll call brtz yes brani no joit yes Kaplan yes Petty yes ready yes yes everyone a good luck evening to no just I I want to say um I'm I'm very thankful of this my silver anniversary as uh chairman 20150 year really oh yes oh my God we should had a cake I know we should had Le least something in sterling silver too late it it it it will be my last year just in case you don't know I'm I'm the process of uh relocating to ocean county and uh I'm going to miss this I'm really really going to miss this don't move don't move's not missing it that much when you're my age and you're living a fo level house with stairs all over the place a friend of mine's on the and I and actually I I had lunch with Joe today and I was telling him that there was a time when I was actually thinking of maybe I would apply down there next year I'm not going to I'm walking away very happy with 35 years on this board and a lot of memories a lot a lot of really really good we have an appropriate oh okay good thank you all right a motion to adj thing um Chaz is last night he's retiring oh oh yes Chaz great great well done really really really good and I and I'd like to I'm really like to welcome Bill uh Bill's Dad if you didn't know George Johnson was our attorney for about a dozen years had a very good relationship with him uh and Bill substituted a few times maybe more than a few times in those years and that's why I you know we felt he was a good fit for the board and he knows most of the people on the board I appreciate the vo of confidence thank you welcome welcome motion to adjourn Some Mo all in favor picture sure everyone come in for oh you want you want us to here sit and have people stand behind stand Come Close John good ready we are nor nor you don't want to be in it come on up on the [Music] table thank you good night [Music] everybody Lor who gets I that so [Music] should I speaked to two more years [Music] go for