of the Township of Pipony Troy Hills Board of Adjustment. It is Wednesday, January 28, 2026, and it is 5:30 p.m. Announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted in
accordance uh with NJSA104-6 at set of the New Jersey Open Public Meetings Act. >> Roll call. Mr. Burkowitz >> here. Mr. Jositz >> here. >> Mr. Masarella >> present.
>> Mr. Modi >> present. >> Miss Neglia >> present. >> Mr. Ready >> present. >> Chairwoman Grani >> present. >> We also have our board planner Mr. Chadwick >> present. >> Our board engineer Mr. Lammanoitz >> here. >> And our board attorney Mr. Johnson
>> here. >> Would you please stand and join us saying the pledge of allegiance? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on something other than what is on our agenda for this evening? I see none.
Application 2438, Islamic Community Cultural Center, 879 South Beverick Road, block 764, lot 34, zone R1-RW,
preliminary and final site plan with CD variance to construct a three-story addition. This application has been carried from our October 22nd, 2025 meeting. Mr. Shepis, >> good evening. Thank you for having us. I
should say good afternoon. So, may I be seated? >> Please. >> Okay. Well, uh, we're here again in order to continue the presentation. Uh, we have heard various concerns or numerous concerns relative to the sufficiency of on-site parking.
In an effort to address the issue, we've explored two avenues. The first avenue would be to acquire land from an adjoining owner. So, you're going to hear testimony tonight about those efforts uh which were to no avail. We were hopeful to buy something contiguous
in order to expand the parking or otherwise create additional parking uh in order to help service this use. Uh in addition, we've looked at the possibility of providing additional parking within the spaces that we have. And uh one of the possibilities that
we've come up with that we would like to uh present this evening which would be subject to future plan modifications uh is the possibility of uh stackers. It's a mechanical means of creating additional on-site parking. The project
architect, Mr. Cardi has an exhibit with him this evening and would like to briefly talk about this and then we can move on to Mr. Kokar's testimony addressing other u factual issues. So Mr. Cardi was previously uh sworn and he previously placed his credentials on the
record as an architect. Uh there's means to uh dispense with having them sworn in again. >> Sure. You understand you're still on the road? >> I do. >> And nothing's changed with respect to your credentials? >> No. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Mr. Cardi, uh, you heard my opening comments with regard.
>> Well, let me teach that. >> Yeah, you know, why don't you do that? >> What exhibit are we up to? Do you know, Mr. Sheep, do you know what exhibit we're up to? >> Mr. Sheep, do you know what exhibit number? For the record, please note that Mr.
Croch is present. >> They have >> I have four exhibits to date. So, I believe we're up to A5. >> So, A5 Maybe better. >> Are you fine? >> Okay. Uh, Mr. Cardi, I'm going to ask you um the assignment that you were
handed with regard to endeavoring to create additional on-site parking. What uh means that you've investigated in order to effectuate that and ultimately what you've come up with as a uh a possibility in order to address uh parking concern.
>> Sure. Uh multi-level stacker systems are very common in um you see it in New York City open air parking garages. you see it out here. Multif family housing, wherever space is at a premium, uh you see them used quite often. So, what we're proposing here is a two-level
stacker system, let's call it, uh for a total of 22 units. It's 44 vehicles. Uh these units, I'm just going to go through kind of the nuts and bolts, and there'll be testimony later about the parking spaces and how that plays in with the overall uh site plan. Um, each
of these stacker units or the system for each location is custom designed for every application. They are hydraulically operated with a key switch and they all have a battery backup. Uh, these can be used indoor or outdoor locations. Uh we're proposing uh
for those on the board what I handed out the stacker spaces are indicated in red and on the board to my right the stacker spaces are indicated in a gray shade. Uh building uh there's no special
building requirements uh other than some fire suppression uh which will of course will all be done per code. The only time uh special provisions need to be made is when these stackers go to three or four high. They sometimes incorporate uh catwalks for both maintenance and
firefighting uh issues. Um I mentioned there's a full fire suppression system that'll be coming off of the building system. Uh regarding maintenance, uh they get yearly cleaning and quarterly maintenance uh from both the the manufacturer and the installer.
Uh as far as the operation of these units, uh it is um uh we will keep them in the up position at all times other than when the double stacker is needed. Then they will brought down to the lower position. A
car will be driven onto it and then lifted up into the upper position. Um when the lift is in the upper position, you don't have to drive onto a ramp of any sort. It'll just be a concrete uh driveway underneath the building. In
this case, um uh as you know, we have a sight a slight slope to the parking area under the building. That's why the uh stacker spaces start at a certain point. Um these are made to be on a slope. There
is a special kit to modify them to be on the slope. And as I mentioned, these will be uh uh valet operated or something's going to be assigned from staff to operate these. Uh residents will not have access to any of that. So during the period of time when these are
needed, uh someone will be there to operate the units. >> All right. So Mr. Cardi, is it fair to say that these stackers would not be utilized except in the uh occasions when there are um I'll say religious services being conducted on the property that
necessitates the additional parking. >> That's correct. >> Okay. And uh in the photograph that's appended or that's included on exhibit A5, it shows this particular stacker device uh in operation. Is that fair to say? >> That's correct. And some of the vehicles are noted as being uh elevated and
there's cars parked underneath. >> That's correct. >> So why don't you talk about how it is that the uh cars will be parked underneath when the stacker above is elevated. >> So in a normal circumstance, say during the week or when there's not the need for them, the stacker will be elevated
and empty. no vehicle on top and the residents or people attending uh can pull in underneath there as they would pull into a normal parking spot. >> Okay. And how wide would the spot be underneath the stacker? >> Everything is custom designed. Uh you
can go 8 ft, 8 and 1/2 ft. It goes center to center. The posts are are quite narrow to fit in a in a any parking space. So, it's custom designed per the building. >> Okay. Uh, is it fair to say that you'd be able to park the standard automobile underneath this stacker? >> Yes. >> Now, let's talk about the space that's
on the stacker. So, we have the opportunity to create uh an additional I'll say 20 or 22 parking spaces depending on the number of stackers. Uh, when the vehicle is parked on the stacker, presumably there's no car underneath. So, how does that work?
>> Say there's a vehicle parked in the space under the stacker, >> right? >> How would one effectuate having two cars parked in that space? uh the valet or who whatever staff person is assigned to this would take the car back it out from underneath the space. Then the the uh
the lift would be lowered down to lower position and then that car would be driven onto the lift and then lift it up. >> Okay. So, is it fair to say that this would occur in advance of these religious um events so that there'd be no need to jockey cars while people are endeavoring to park? Yes, it's
anticipated that residents in the building would be assigned one of these stacker units and their vehicle would be lifted up. >> Okay. So, there would have to be a coordination with the building residents in order to effectuate this plan. >> That's correct. >> Okay. So, let's talk about the height
between the uh top of the stacker and the ceiling. What kind of distance do you have? >> Uh, actually that varies. We're limited. We have a 12t ceiling height at the lowest portion and that gradually increases as we get to the rear of the property. So at that
level we have approximately uh plus or minus 6 ft for the lower level and about 5 ft about uh for a car on the upper level. >> Okay. So is it fair to say that there's nobody in the vehicle when it's being elevated to the upper level of >> that's all done at grade with a key
switch? >> Okay. So the vehicle is placed on the stacker, the button is pressed, the vehicle rises, and then you have the space below. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Now, uh is there any special fire retardant or other um infrastructure that's necessary in order to safeguard
the building as relates to these cars being placed on stackers below? >> From my research and talking to different manufacturers for a two stacker system, it's the normal building fire suppression that's used. Anytime it goes more than two high, there'll be special uh additional heads placed uh
and catwalks to to get access to those levels. >> Okay. But that doesn't pertain here. >> That's right. >> Now, as the project architect, did you design this building to have a uh spec specific fire rating as it relates to uh the lower level of the um of the
building in relationship to the parking garage? There'll be fire separation between the garage level and the first residential floor. >> And what type of fire rating is proposed? >> Uh I believe it's 2 hours. We didn't get to that level of detail yet. >> Okay. Um
with regard to the device itself, is it electric? Is it hydraulic? How does it work? >> It's hydraulic. It's key activated and it could be in all weather or it could be enclosed in a garage. >> Now you are proposing them to be located under the building in the garage. Is there a reason that you selected that
location apart from the grade as compared to putting it outside? >> Not specifically. I just think it's it's it's better to have it indoors. >> Okay. Now, do you envision that these stackers would be used at any other time than these religious ceremonies? >> If there's a need for it, but I don't
think we anticipated at this time. >> Okay. Um, have you looked at any other uh aspects associated with the stackers that would have either presented an architectural or a safety issue associated with using them under the building? >> Um, no, there are no issues.
>> Okay. So, as far as you could see as from an architectural standpoint, this is a safe alternative in order to create uh some 20 or 22 parking spaces uh on site without adding any more pavement. >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. I don't have anything further, Mr.
Cardi, at this time. Could you um first of all get us examples of other residential communities that use this because the only time I've ever seen this is in parking lots in New York City. >> Yes, I will get
>> I never heard of it residential. So then my question is first of all the the the f the lower level are they pulling on to a ramp of sorts or is that on the cement? >> That's on the cement. There's there's
nothing on the ground >> and then the second level is just elevated all the time. It's brought forward when it's needed. >> It it just it's just goes up and up and down. It doesn't come out at all. So if someone's parked in the spot >> right >> and the spot is needed
>> right >> above someone has to move the bottom spot >> that's correct >> pull it out >> put the car up and then put it back in. >> That's correct. >> Okay. So first question is because I've only seen it in New York and in you know
you're not allowed to go to that area. >> Right. >> You're talking about a a cultural center where you could have kids running around, people walking around. You really think that's a safe idea to have this kind of apparatus where it's not a
business, it's a living arrangement? You you think that's safe? >> Well, the the idea is to have a dedicated person that would only that would be his job >> when the situation is needed. So now, let's say it's a Thursday night and you
know when we do these these applications and the parking is always right where it needs to be to get the approval per se, but sometimes that's not realistic and there could be instead of 1.6 cars per unit, there's 2.1. You don't think those residents are
going to want to be able to use the apparatus when it's not a religious ceremony? I I think that's just going to have to be worked out with the the management of the building. >> But you're testifying that it's going to be used for religious services when in
reality could be used all the time. And are you telling me if it's going to be used all the time, you're going to have someone sitting there 24/7 up and down? >> They'd have to make arrangements with the building. >> Yeah. Okay.
So is the expectation then just say a resident's car is sitting there on the bottom. That resident isn't home, right? They went out with one of their friends in their car, but now that spot's needed. Are they supposed to leave a key? Is is the owner of the building going to have a key to every car that's
there? Is that the expectation? >> We'll have that addressed by Mr. Kukar. He'll address that's an operational question. >> Operational. >> I have a I have a question. When the car is a clear height for the first level car is 510. If there's a car upstairs
can somebody needs to walk in that 5' 10 in get the car out. Is that the approved standard height? >> Again these lifts can stop at any level. It's just going to have to be coordinated. What you know as we get down towards the rear of the property that dimension is going to increase greatly. I don't know the exact number
off the top of my head but uh that's just going to have to be coordinated with the with with you know vehicles will be assigned spots based on their size. And can the SUVs or vans be fit in in the spot of 5' 10 in? >> Again, that 5' 10 is is really
arbitrary. It can go higher. >> What happens if the car above it is >> it would it would have to be coordinated with the car above it. And there's there's limits on these. It's not it doesn't keep going up until the car is crushed on top. This >> Well, obviously >> there's there's limits. >> I would hope not, right? Comes in.
>> I wouldn't want to see my car up there like that. And now you said it's 5 foot 10. So just per say I'm parked in that spot, right? I can't walk under there to get my car. I'm gonna hit my head. I'm 6'4. >> If if you're 6'4, then maybe you'll have a 6'4 space or you wouldn't be allowed
uh well, you'd be allowed to drive it in there, but if somebody the valet would be in and out and working the lift. >> Mr. Cardi, you mentioned that this would be used for religious events. There are religious events several times a week
and parking presently is on the local streets. Is this operation going to be available to the people that come to the religious
services during particular hours >> or is it just for special religious events? Again, I'm only testifying to the mechanics of it. I think you'd have to talk to uh you know, the operational aspect of it with Mr. Kokar.
>> So, you're not you're not testifying to any of the safety aspects of the operational >> safe safety. Yes. But not in terms of um you know, it's just going to have to be um it's an operational thing with with kids
running around. Somebody mentioned before. I mean, that's >> Yeah. I mean, maybe this is screened off or fenced in on the outsides. Uh, >> I got to tell you, I it's it's that one was really creative. I just don't see
how it's safe or makes sense for a community to have that kind of uh operation going underneath where there's going to be people walking around at any time, espe kids, elderly, whatever you have. That just doesn't seem like that
could be safe. It's creative, but I just don't think it makes sense. >> Do we have any other questions from the board? >> Mr. Chadwick, >> how'd you arrive at 22 U spaces? >> That's what can fit given the grading
underneath the garage. We spoke with the manufacturer and they kind of limited it to a minimum of 12 ft in height. So the space that's closest to the mosque that would be coordinated with
the car lift section diagram. >> Yes, that >> plan. So they the lowest or the yeah the least separation between the floor of the garage >> and the uh ceiling above is 11 ft 9 and
3/4 in. Well, we we figured on 12 ft. Yes. >> Okay. But we the the number of spaces is limited by the design of the building. >> That's correct. >> Do we It has nothing to do with knowing
the deficit. Then >> I'm sorry. >> It has not that 22 is a simple flat number by itself. It doesn't address what the total deficit of parking is. >> Correct. This is just driven by the
building architecture. >> So, if you're adding 22 spaces, how many were we short the last time? You remember, John? >> They they've never given a number. >> Ah, that would help. Um, one other question as far as safety goes. When it's in the up position and say nobody's parked underneath it, not necessarily
kids that live in the building, but they're teenagers and I was a kid once. What keeps anybody from going in there just climbing around on them? Is there anything? >> Has anything been designed to keep that from happening? >> No, I'm talking about key. >> No. Well, there it's key switch activated, but he's talking about
>> No, I'm just talking about a key climbing up. I mean, you can climb up a hole. I climb many things, too. When I was >> Right. Right. >> Guess that wasn't the best key. >> The the operation of the You explained how it works.
When you have Friday prayer, everybody arrives at once. How do we have 22 operators to deal with this situation or >> So the I the thought is to in advance to raise everything up and have an open
parking space below so people could just come and go for for services and then the operator, the valet could uh readjust the cars after everything was finished. But how realistic is that if everybody who lives there is going to be parking underneath?
>> Does do you really think that makes any sense? >> It's an operational function. Is this the very >> I can testify to that? >> Pardon me. >> Do you testify to that? Is somebody else? >> No, somebody else. >> Oh, somebody else. Okay. >> Mr. Hari, has has any dimensional checks been done? In other words, can you get a
9 foot wide space but still fit what I'll call the curb on the um on the platform? and the mechanics and still get these all this stuff in there. >> Um, if it's straight 9 foot spacing, we'd have to make some adjustments, but
we do have those column widths where these could tuck in behind. So, I believe something can be worked out. >> Do you know if the if the platform does have a a 9 foot wide platform >> there? It's all custom made depending on the application.
falling off. >> To that point, I think one of the variances you requested is a parking with variance because you didn't have 9 ft because of the columns. Correct. >> Right. >> So would this further >> please? >> I think one of the variances that was
requested is a parking space with variance because you don't have nine because of the columns. You have eight and a half, right? >> So does this further reduce that? >> No. I believe one leg of this can tuck behind a column and we can shift the spaces around a little bit, but that
needs to be explored a little further. >> Well, you've got three spaces between each column. Correct. See, >> right. >> And you've got a mechanical apparatus on both sides of each space. Correct. >> That's correct. >> So, by its very nature, doesn't that
decrease the amount of space available for these between each of the columns? >> Yes. >> So, then it would be less than 8 and 1/2 ft. Correct. I have to look into it. But maybe >> how could it not be? >> It's all custom made. I don't I don't know to answer your question. I don't know how thick those rails are on the
side. >> But if that was part of the original variance, wouldn't you have like looked into that before coming back and presenting this? >> Well, >> oh, sorry. Was there another question? >> I I was about to ask that, too. I mean, you're proposing it, but you're not sure
it can work. This came up very recently and we're putting >> and and so it's being proposed but it's not being said that it can work. >> You can say that I guess. Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Do you know the minimum clearance height
as per code >> for >> for the parking space >> um >> under in a garage circumstance uh >> in this system? What what >> you mean? You say the vehicle parking in with the with the lift up above it.
>> Yes. >> I don't know that if there is such a code. >> Do we have any questions from the board? >> No. >> There any questions from the audience? >> So just let me I'm sorry.
>> No. No. M. So, uh, for most of you who are probably here the last time, what we've done in the past is there's an attorney here who's representing uh, some of the neighbors, and we've allowed that attorney uh, to ask his questions first in the hopes that he'll probably ask some of the same questions that you
all are thinking of. Once he's done, then the uh, Miss Chairman Woman Grini will invite members of the public to ask their questions. Okay, Mr. Mills. >> Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Is this working? Yeah. >> Yes. Uh,
>> good evening members of the board. Thank you again as always for all the time you put in on this. Mr. Shepus, welcome. Uh, I'll try not to duplicate some of the questions that have already been asked. Uh, you indicated, sir, that these lifts are custom manufactured. Is that correct?
>> That's correct. >> By whom? >> This particular one is called um the wholesaler or retail is called Auto Park. This particular one is a German product called a war parklift. >> Do you have any prior personal
experience with this product? >> I've specified them, but we have not had something constructed yet with them. >> All right. Now, you indicated that a valet would be present. >> Correct. >> For the purpose of operating this lift. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Right. How many valets in total do you
envision? >> Uh that's an operational question for Mr. Kokar. >> Right. And I suppose that uh that answer would also depend on what would happen if a number of vehicles showed up at once. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. What is the cycle time on this lift?
>> I do not know that answer. >> Do you know if it requires a separate foundation to be installed in order to support it stably? >> Uh I do not know. But we would design the the slab. There wouldn't be a separate footing for this because these would sit on the ground floor uh garage
slab. Do you know the length of the I'll call them rails, but the the trays on which the wheels will rest? >> Uh 17 foot one inch or 17t 3/4 in. >> Certainly longer than the wheelbase of the average motor vehicle. Correct. >> Yes. >> Would that then mean that the trailing
edge of these rails or or guides would be sticking out in a place where people might walk into them? Well, I think the parking spaces I don't you know, we'd have to talk to civil or or traffic, but if it's 20 feet, then it would be within the confines of the parking space.
>> Now, you indicated there's 12 ft of height beneath this building. >> Correct. At the at the low end. Yes. >> All right. How much at the high end? >> I do not have that answer. >> How much height is available where these lifts would be installed? It's well it's 12 feet right now from
concrete floor to the ceiling tile. >> All right. >> Would that not preclude for example the stacking of two minivans or two SUVs? >> Yes, >> it would preclude that. >> Yes. >> So then you have to be very choosy about the type of vehicle to rest in the upper
tier. Is that right? >> That's correct. Spots would be assigned. >> And if you had a normal vehicle in the upper tier, how much space would be available in the lower tier? Again, it depends the the where the lift stops is flexible and can be programmed. It depends on what kind of vehicle it's
going to be on the upper tier. >> So, it's possible then that if you had a compact vehicle, if you will, on the lift, you also would have to have a compact comp the applicant would have to have a compact vehicle underneath it >> possibly. I don't know that for sure.
>> And that would encourage some logistical entanglement, would it not? It it just needs to be sorted out and spaces need to be assigned. >> Do you envision any type of extended storage on the upper rack by V, for example, the residential units? You're
aware the applicant is seeking approval for 28 residential units. Correct. >> Correct. >> Would those residents be uh relegated, if you will, to the upper level storage? in the in the a few discussions we've had uh that would only happen when they
need the lower parking spaces. So for the most part that upper level is going to be remain um empty. >> And I believe you indicated you were uncertain as to how the issue of motor vehicle keys would be dealt with for these vehicles. >> An operational question.
>> I see. Okay. with the uh what describe for me if you will what the fire suppression system looks like underneath the over over top of the parking but underneath the building. What what is it? >> It's it'll be a pro most likely a dry
sprinkler system u due to the the cold unless the ceiling is heated. It be a wet sprinkler system but it' be a flush mounted uh heads at the ceiling level. >> What do you mean flush mounted? just recessed into the ceiling so that nothing's sticking down. >> It would not that it meaning the fire
suppression system would not in any way reduce the available height under the building. >> That's correct. >> And is that so incorporated in your architectural plans that feature? >> We haven't gotten that far. >> So you can't then tell me what fire suppression system you have in mind
then. >> It's it's going to be a sprinkler system. It's going to be either a wet sprinkler system if it's a heated ceiling or it's going to be a dry sprinkler system if the if the ceiling is not heated. Typically, we heat those because you get the comfort for the first floor residents. >> What is the material that will form the
ceiling above these parking areas? >> It's it'll be an acoustic ceiling like 2x2 or 2x4 with a special like a myar surface for humidity and they'll have hold down clips for any kind of wind. Wouldn't you need cement to support the weight of the uses above?
>> That's that's the finished ceiling that you're looking at. When you look up up above there, it's going to be steel and concrete structure. >> In the event there were a fire, would not the multiplicity of stacked vehicles enhance the potential for damage by fire?
>> Sure. Vehicle fire anywhere is was would be an issue. >> Okay. Thank you. Nothing further. Madam Chairman, >> could I ask a question in between? >> How long does it take? Let's say it's working perfectly. Car pulls up. How long does it take for the process to
occur to get the car up into the spot? >> Um, I did not have that conversation or ask that question. >> So, we don't know that. So, question. When if prayers are 4:00, let's just say, when do people show up? 5 to 4, 10 to 4?
>> Operational question for Mr. Kokar. So my question would be, how would you get these cards up fast enough to let everybody get to the prayer session on time if you're doing 20 cars minimum? >> I I mentioned earlier that all this
would be done in advance prior to any kind of prayer period or when they anticipate having to use these spaces. So when people come up for services, whether it's at 20 minutes before or 5 minutes before, there will be 22 open spots at the ground level.
>> Yeah. I mean, that doesn't make sense because you you the bottom has to be cleared for the top to be used, >> right? >> Okay. You want to use both sets of spots so that you theoretically make up for the spots you don't have. How does the
timing work? It sounds like to do to park 44 cars, you need would you need a minute a car to go up and down? The same guy is going up, down, up, down. It doesn't sound like it >> if if they choose to move the put the
residence cars up for example for that 3hour period whatever it is they could do that an hour before 2 hours before. So what I'm saying is um again operational but a half hour before all the cars on the garage level would need to be elevated so when people
come in and then coming down those people leave and then they bring the cars down. >> Thank you. >> Mhm. Another one question you said there are sprinklers in the for the say fire fire thing. >> Yes.
>> But uh if the sprinklers are there is this this place is heated because in the winter it may freeze right? >> Yeah. Typically, like I I already mentioned, some building owners like to heat that heel that ceiling. So, they
could put a wet sprinkler system in and it also heats the the first residential floor or some people choose to leave not heat it, leave it cold, in which case they'd put a dry sprinkler system in that's not going to freeze. >> Okay. I just have a couple couple
additional questions. um with respect to when a when a car is on the lift and the person underneath leaves cuz he's leaving for the he's done with the service. Does that upper platform satisfy ADA for vertical clearance?
Because if an an uh a visually impaired person comes, are they going to hit their head on the on the platform because their cane's not going to hit the platform that's up in the air? And I know that there's vertical requirements for that for even for street signs and whatever so that nobody's getting hit on
the head. >> I'm I'm unaware of what that dimension is. I know I don't know the horizontal dimensions, but we would of course look into that and make sure it's ADA compliant. >> Okay. The other issue is if the um if the lifts are up with cars on them and
there's a fire, don't the lifts prevent the sprinkler systems from affecting the cars underneath the lift? It'll act as an umbrella, wouldn't it? >> Yeah, I would have to look into that. I'm sure I spoke when I spoke with the manufacturer, you know, they said all the fire
suppression is coordinated with their lifts. What that means, we have to get into that. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Shepus, would you have are you planning on having the manufacturer of this lift come before us and answer some
of our questions? >> Well, I believe Mr. Cardi had indicated that he would get this information from the manufacturer. He mentioned the manufacturer is in Germany. So, we'll certainly get information uh either directly from the manufacturer or a local rep. But all of these questions uh
deserve an answer and we'll we'll get you the answers from the manufacturer or a local rep. >> Local rep. >> Okay. local. >> Is there anyone in the audience that would like to come forward and ask questions of this applicant and of the
testimony given by the architect this evening? >> So, sir, this is your chance to ask questions of this witness on the testimony that he has given. Can you state your name and spell your last name, please? >> I guess I have a question then. Are we going to hear from the operations manager? Can we ask
>> questions of him later? >> Well, this is because I have a question about operational >> my understanding is that there'll be additional witnesses tonight that may speak to operations. My question is do you have any questions from this witness on the testimony that he has given?
>> No, I'm going to hold my question. >> Okay. >> Can you state your name and spell your last name, please? >> Uh Nicholas Hamak. H O M Y A K. You have questions for this witness on the testimony that he's given?
>> Yes. Uh you mentioned uh cleaning or washing. Uh what would the frequency of the maintenance of this uh device and what types of fluids or potential
pollutants are involved? All I can tell you tell you is that the manufacturer does a yearly cleaning physical cleaning of the equipment and quarterly maintenance lubricating what needs to be lubed etc. I do not know what fluids or lubricants are used.
>> Well, would it be hydraulic fluid, oil, >> some type of cleaning? >> I'm sure they have maintenance manuals or or what they do during these quarterly visits that we could submit. Uh would it be similar to a
uh material or fluids that would be used in an automative service like a garage? >> Yeah, >> I can't answer that. I don't I don't know it. Are you aware that this property, all
2.7 acres, is in an open uh open waters protection area and in a tier one wellhead protection area and that oil and hydraulic fluid do not mix.
I'm aware it's in these areas. I don't know the specific names of those areas. All right. So, but there are uh potential hazardous fluids involved. >> Again, it's it's details for the next level. I can get that information.
>> All right. Thank you. >> Mhm. >> State your name. Let's spell your last name, please. >> Hi, Devil Sha. Last name Sha S H Ah. Uh disclosure. Um my views do not represent the board of ed. I'm here with my own
opinion as a resident of Paripony. Um, >> okay. >> Question. Um, so what would this bring the total space to? >> That'll be testified by the traffic engineer. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> So, I guess we'll be back then. Thank you. State your name and spell your last name, please. >> Sure. It's Bruce Laughlin. L O U G H L I N. I live on Preston Road in Paripony. Um I have a question about your fire
suppress suppressant system. Does that work for electric cars like a Tesla? >> That's beyond my expertise. I'd have to get that answer for you. >> Okay. So, would you have to limit your the people who own cars in the apartment
building? They couldn't own a Tesla or another electric car. >> I I can't answer that. I'm sorry. >> Thank you. >> Can you state your name and spell your last name, please? >> Yes. Good evening. Tony Fano Fo. >> Got a question. Uh,
>> you're going to say a German company can't make a scale model that you could present to the board and everybody else and we could play Hot Wheels and make sure it goes up and down because I involved in trucking maintenance. >> Nothing runs on total hydraulic anymore. It's air it's combination of electric
hydraulic or air hydraulic. It's got to be a combination of something. >> Well, this is electric hydraulic. >> So, so you're going to actually actually put electro additional >> electric into the garage. >> That's correct. Okay. So, they could make a like a mini model and you might
be able to show everybody and uh you know FedEx does it overnight. >> I can find out for you sir. >> Thank you. >> State your name. Spell your last name please. >> Yeah. My name is Samir Samir Rana. I'm a resident of Paripony. Um my question was
again an extension of the question which came up before the multiplicity incident. The sprinklers are clearly inefficient. You know I did the research. It cannot put out fires especially which are set off by electric cars. Um this is the first time you're
hearing of a level parking structure in Barcney. I've been a resident of 24 years. I don't know in the audience if anyone can site an instance of a level parking the way you're suggesting who's going to assume the risk if there is indeed a multiple multiplicity incident and it rips through the building and you
know there's loss of property cars and much worse like life >> understood I think I would have to get the representatives of the manufacturer to testify to that >> okay the second question is it doesn't sound like my my brother-in-law is um in
the same business I know uh these systems that you're proposing are easy to show on paper but they significantly raise the cost. Um has this been factored because you know all along we were thinking it's going to be a simple building with you know x number of units
but now all of a sudden the costs go up significantly. Have you done that costbenefit analysis and the affordability of those units or how is that that going to impact? >> We've had discussion with the owner but that could be testified later by him if he so chooses. I don't know how that
applies to anything here. >> Okay. Even with these proposed level parkings, and I don't remember the ma the math from the top of my head, it doesn't still sound like you may have enough spaces between the two. And going
back to what the board suggested, the cycle time also came up. I still have my reservations about you having enough time to get the cars in, get the car, you know, in time for the service and still, you know, still completely
prevent from cars spilling over to the streets in front of um the the building, right? >> It still is a question. I mean, have you done that math given >> that's an operational >> and then a growth of, you know, the the the community? >> That's an operational issue to be
discussed. >> Yeah. So I mean all the questions and all the things that you proposed are to address the code I guess but it doesn't factor or think out two years 3 years 5 years and the problems that might come
up right >> do you have a question >> yeah I mean that's the question essentially like is there like a more you know forwardlooking projection of how these problems will manifest because it's easy to propose at this time we've never had a precedent in pipney
right of a of such a structure >> everything's going to be properly designed properly engineered serviced maintained etc that's all I can say >> okay only so many questions for this specific testimony thanks a lot >> sir sir you could you please give the secretary the at your address
>> yeah my address is 143 Carlton Drive >> 143 what >> 143 Carlton Drive >> thanks >> Mr. Cardi, again, I apologize for keep jumping in and out, but again, this is the first I heard of this proposal, so I'm shooting from the hip a bit. Um, as
was mentioned prior, this >> oop, sorry. Uh, this pro this property is within a wellhead protection area and, uh, in the ordinance, which I'm looking at as we as we go here, uh, major potential pollutant sources including include
automotive service centers for repair and maintenance and such. And from what you're from what I'm gathering, this is electrically powered hydraulics. And if they're going to be servicing the hydraulic units, that would seem to be akin to maintenance and that would be prohibited in the well
protection wellhead protection maybe. Have you looked into that at all or anybody looked into that? >> I have not. Um, >> how how do you how are we moving forward when our engineer >> hasn't even had the information long enough to really
>> process it and get the right questions? I think there's even more important the fact that the wellhead protection prohibits this type of equipment >> would probably require a notice for a separate use variance.
>> Yes. If you if you want a variance from the wellhead protection ordinance, it is a devariance for use. >> So we're talking about something >> that we're talking about something that hasn't been made uh given public notice,
>> right? And again, at the last hearing, we were told we were going to get all >> You were being productive. That's >> And at the last meeting, we were told we were going to get all new documents and we really got nothing. >> Right. >> Do you have a question of this witness, sir? >> Uh yes. >> Which state your name? Spell your last name, please.
>> Uh my name is Vijay Namzushi. The last name is N A M J O S Hi. I can't filter your address, please. nine haden fit right. Uh the question is
>> these systems that you're talking about they will be installed beneath the building right >> correct >> so I have seen these systems in action so the columns that support the vehicles right they are somewhere around 8 to 10 in wide
so there will be two columns in that one parking spot doesn't that reduce the existing uh parking space >> I'm sorry what was the what was the last part of So you have to install at least two columns for parking space. >> Right.
>> Right. 8 to 10 in wide. Doesn't that reduce the existing parking space? >> That needs to be looked into further. That was brought up earlier. >> Okay. Second question is that since this is beneath the building and you have to design the system considering the maximum allowed height for a passenger
vehicle and in this country it can be F4, F-150. So how does that fit in below that building? Two Again, if something doesn't fit, every space, every car would be evaluated. If an F-150 doesn't fit, then they're going to have to park in in another space. This is an
operational issue. >> But you have to design the system with maximum allowed vehicle height, right? >> I'm sorry. I I you have to design the system with considering the maximum allowed vehicle height. Isn't that correct?
Uh again, this is all about we're just going by the data that the manufacturer gave us that a 12 ft of height can work for two vehicles. We'd have to go back further and see what two vehicles at each location could be.
>> Okay. Does this impact uh the building height in any way? >> Impact what? >> Building height. >> No. Okay. Thank you. I I just got one more question. I don't know statement maybe but with all the questions being asked we really haven't given any answers and
you know you're presenting this obviously for the first time for all of us to see I would imagine a little more work be done to know what questions would have been asked I I don't know I mean because seems every questions is you know just trying to get some information it's operational it's I
don't know it's I got to get call Germany um I I don't know if we can continue like going that way >> well We have a w our next witness will address all the operational questions. So he he's he's here this evening to address the questions which Mr. Cardi uh
deferred for operations, >> but there were some questions of him that he probably should have had the answers of. I It's not all operations. >> And is he going to be able to answer Mr. Lmanit's questions >> with regard to the type of material that would be used in
>> whatever questions he has? >> Well, Mr. Lanoitz raised the question as to whether there'd be hydraulic fuel and whether there would I'm sorry hydraulic >> uh fluid and whether that would um create an issue that necessitated a variance. Now it would seem to me that
certainly anything that uh addressed the um concern of the board as to leaks etc could be addressed either in a maintenance standpoint or perhaps uh there's an electrical lift that could be designed in order to accommodate the concern. He doesn't have the answer this evening. It's a good question. we'll get
you the answer. >> But the problem is he's probably not, and this is no disrespect, you're probably not even prepared because you didn't have the the qu the information to develop the questions for it. >> So, it's it's really it's unfair to us
and to our professionals because they don't know the right questions to ask yet. Am I am I being unreasonable? >> No, you're not. >> I had asked earlier and I stated prematurely this was brought before the board. It was premature. It shouldn't have been brought until we all had time
to digest it. Take a look at it. >> Unfortunately, that's the way it is. >> Repeat your question. >> I said it it was I mentioned before that it was premature to bring it before the board now that it should have been given to us prior to and it wasn't. So, we
cannot really form an opinion as to whether it'll work or or it won't work. that should have been thought of and we should have had all the information given to us and our professionals. Then we could have answered it with uh being informed.
>> Mr. Johnson, is it wrong to request that we delay or you know postpone that aspect of the presentation? >> I I don't think it is that. >> Are we allowed to? >> It doesn't appear as though the applicant is going to finish his
presentation this evening. Okay. >> And we know that there are a number of witnesses on the objector side that are yet to testify. So I don't know if Mr. Sheepus intends to bring this witness or other witnesses back to answer the
questions that have come up because of the fact that this has been just now brought to the board's attention. But even the next person who's coming up, he might have some of the answers to some of the questions, but our professionals might not even have all
the questions. >> I I understand your concern. Perhaps Mr. Shepus can speak to his client about how to potentially present the application in a much more comprehensive manner. >> Um, I mean, this is the third time that we've been that the board has been here
that the public has been here. The expectation was that the board was going to hear substantial testimony this evening. Um, and now the board has been given this drawing uh for the first time this evening and quite frankly didn't
get any updated site plans or traffic plans or parking plans or anything of that nature uh that quite frankly I would have expected that the board would have received in advance of this evening. Um and it's unfortunate that um
that the situation has evolved the way it has. >> Are there any other questions of the public of this witness on the testimony that he's given? >> Yes. >> Good evening. Rita Montinero, 18 Schindler Court. M O N T A N A R O.
Nobody's talked about what this sounds like. So, >> if I'm living in this apartment on the first floor, there's a parking garage under my floor. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> And now this >> hydraulic system
>> starts at any time of the day or during the service, but I'm home. Like, what does it sound like to me and the neighboring community? How much noise does this thing make? Um, I'm sure there must be a decibel level data for the product that I'd have to get and
research. I very much doubt that you'd hear it from the the ground floor with the several inches of concrete between >> I see. Okay, that that was part of my question. And the surrounding area, if I if I live right next door, >> again, a sound study can be done using
the decibel level. The nearest house is a good distance away. Again, >> how could you give testimony on that though? >> Okay. to be honest with you. >> Not not this second, but I you can do a sound study if we have the source and a decibel level. >> But you also said you don't see how it
could be heard. You don't know that. >> Just from experience. I'm talking about the apartment above. Um >> I don't know about that. >> I don't know. I don't know how you know. >> Hello, Barbara Demerest. Dem
709 South Beverwick Road. I'm trying to follow what you were saying in terms of how this would be used during services. So you were saying that the residents cars would be moved up to the second level and then it would be empty for people who are arriving for the the
services. Did I understand that correct? >> Yes, you did. That's correct. >> Can you bring a car down from the second level if the if there's a car on the first level and >> No. No, you cannot. So in other words, the residents whose cars have been moved up to the second level are more or less
stuck there for whatever length of time the services might be going on until that other car is removed. >> Right. That's an operational issue that needs to be addressed. Correct. >> Um in terms of the operation of the lift,
you were referring to a valet or a staff member. you were talking about having to in effect make judgments about which car to go or which vehicle to go where. What are the um what's the skill set needed for somebody to operate this lift
safely? >> I would assume there's some sort of training involved, but I can't. >> So, the guy who's sitting at the front desk is not necessarily going to be able to grab the key and go out and figure out how to do this. >> That's correct. >> Thank you.
What is this? >> With the permission of the board, may I ask just two questions which just propped up in mind? I >> I think you've already had your opportunity to ask questions. >> Sorry. >> You've already had your opportunity to ask questions. >> Yeah. May I just like just one quick question if you don't mind with your permission?
>> Sure. Can I identify yourself? >> Yes. My name is Samir Samir Rana. I live on 143 Carlton Drive. So in extension to the lady's question, right? like the I remember the very first meeting um the owner had testified that this facility
and the units will be available to anyone not just the ones who take part in the services of the Islamic Center but anyone from from any background knowing that let's say I'm I'm not I don't wish to be part of the services
and I have a resident in one of those units now you're you're going to have my car stuck up on the second level of the car car parking >> and I I know I have no way out. So in a way does this not become a disincentive
for people outside the community like that particular >> um you know to buy a unit. It's almost like it it blocks people from outside the community to buy units there. >> Well, it will be addressed by Mr. car.
But to address your immediate concern, if you note on the plan, there's over a 100 parking spaces on the property. 22 are proposed to be under this lift system. So, if somebody doesn't want to participate in this particular uh
mechanical lift parking space, they're certainly free to park their car somewhere else. So, there's other spaces that are available on site. So, let's assume that you rented one of the units and you were not willing or to participate in this aspect of the of the
um uh site plan. Uh you're free to either park in one of the other spaces under the building or park u on the outside of the building in the parking lot uh surrounding the premises. and we would work with those prospective tenants and perhaps even make it part of their lease agreement that for this
three-hour window on Friday afternoons when there's this parking demand uh that's uh unusual that their spaces would be so uh utilized. So it would be with the consent of the people that would be uh residing in the premises
bearing in mind that most of the people uh that would be residing here would be uh participating in these services. So it would be anticipated that they would be there all day. And also the other thing you have to bear in mind is that this facility is uh designated for
persons of ages 62 and older. So we're not expecting the high traffic uh volume andor parking demand that one would see in a non-agger restricted. You can hear testimony from the traffic engineer on uh on what he anticipates to be the parking demand. But we're we're believe
that we'll be able to address the uh concern as to the viability of these spaces both through the uh operations witness that's coming up next and likewise the traffic witness who backs him up. >> Thanks. Do you do you think it's unreasonable for you for us to request a
fivem minute break for you to speak to your client and think that we how a better way we could do this when it comes to this specific and the next person's specific testimony about this since our professionals might not be ready to ask the right questions. >> Understood. I would say this, there has
been a um myriad of questions that have been deferred to operations. Now, the next witness that's coming up is going to address all of those questions. The issue of the stackers is limited in his testimony. Now, certainly uh if you feel that it's not appropriate to ask those
questions of him at this time, we can defer that to a to a future uh meeting, but his testimony, I would anticipate, would take at least two hours uh considering the number of questions. Now, the architect has been testifying now for for just about an hour. So I
would anticipate when we get into all of the details associated with the existing use the uh operations of that building and then likewise what's proposed here that we're going to be somewhere at around uh two two to two and a half hours. Now if you care when we get to that point if somebody wants to ask him
operational questions about this which I believe he'll be able to address we could address those but certainly the questions that remain unanswered this evening must be addressed. So Mr. Cardi has a list of these questions and we certainly will address them. Not this evening because he needs to get other
information or a representative from the manufacturer. >> But that's knowing what we don't know. We don't know what we don't know. >> Understood. So when we submit the revised plans together with this additional information that was requested, we'll submit it in written format. So all of these questions will
be answered in advance of the meeting. Uh but as far as the operational questions, uh Mr. Kokar can address most of those this evening. If you care to defer those, we can defer those and have those addressed after uh further submissions. >> Mr. Shepus, you mentioned revised plans
for this lift. Are you also going to submit to this board? >> It would seem necessary. Uh there have been number of questions raised by Mr. Lmanowitz. uh he had made some suggestions like one of the suggestions was there were some parallel spaces under the building by the drop off and
he suggested that we eliminate those uh I think it was two spaces there was also a um >> let me just correct you that wasn't well that was originized but but the last meeting of testimony was that was going to be a drop off area >> yes that's right >> okay >> yeah I mean there was concerns about
those parallel spaces so the uh current site plans uh still show those as parallel spaces so the plans will have to be revised in order to address that request. And then likewise, there was one uh angled space that was proposed. I think in total uh there was a requirement to lose either three or four
parking spaces for operational reasons, traffic flow, etc. So, Mr. Walker's office um will provide those revised plans well in advance of the next meeting. And we'll also address these other issues that have been raised. I hope so because we've been waiting >> understood
>> for the new >> plans and has not come as >> understood. >> Appreciate it. >> So, so as I guess back to Mr. Jositz's statement, wouldn't we be better off hearing from the traffic before we hear about operations so we even know how many spots we're looking for?
>> Well, you know, that's interesting. Uh it would seem to me that in light of the uh amount of questions relative to operations and not just regarding this aspect of parking, but if you remember when we first started out uh the younger Kokar was here and he testified and
there was many questions that he deferred uh to his father who's here this evening in order to address those questions. And it would seem to me that as he provides his testimony, it may lend itself to other uh questions that we could address u in one revised plan set.
>> I think I think the frustration here is that um at this point we're I think it's fair to say that a a significant concern a significant amount of concerns uh center around parking. Um the documents
on file right now for public review all disagree on how many existing parking spaces there are and that has been like that since this application began. We still don't have an answer. Um in the proposed parking we found we discovered last month last meeting that
the method of calculating proposed parking was incorrect. Um so we don't know how many are existing. We don't know how many that are proposed. We don't know if this lift system is going to fit and how much that's going to do. So, I'm I'm I'm not sure how we're if we can't quantify the
parking uh the quantify the effort to deal with the parking, how are we going to have operational testimony on something that we don't know as >> how it what it needs to do? >> Well,
there's one way to find out and that's okay. I'm >> I'm just I'm just No, I appreciate that. I've been chasing this parking number since this began. So, >> I appreciate that. And there are many moving uh parts associated with this parking issue. Of course, there was suggestions made by the fire department.
You had some suggestions. Uh the DP had their own ideas and we have endeavored to try and uh service all of these inquiries coming at us from different angles. Uh I can't answer those questions for you. We do have a traffic engineer that could uh address those questions and likewise the site
engineers here this evening. Uh but as far as what's uh proposed in the way of the use uh it would seem to be most appropriate to take that information. Now I know the board uh has asked for that information. The information is available this evening. Members of the public have asked for that information.
It's available this evening. So this issue I think is something that is a continuing issue to address. I think it was helpful to get the comments and concerns this evening. even though you didn't get all your answers, uh it gave us a lot of questions uh that we can address at a future meeting and I think
it was very helpful uh more than you can imagine because you've given us a lot of uh I'll say food for thought. So that being said, um I don't have any other questions, Mr. Cardi. I do see a gentleman standing at the mic. Uh when we conclude with Mr. Card's testimony,
I'd like to move into the operational issues and then try and address as many of the questions that have been raised throughout the hearings and then those even raised this evening and then from there depending on the hour of the day or night uh we'll figure out where we are and then either continue with
additional witness or uh or conclude for the night. >> But don't we also have an issue. What was the public's right to know that this was part of the plan? Well, you know, it's interesting you say that. In the um I think it's section 10G of the
municipal land use law, it provides that the applicant has the ability to bring exhibits to a board hearing. Now, this is not the site plan. This is simply an item that we presented this evening for discussion purposes. Now, we're not asking you to approve this this evening.
What we did is we presented an opportunity to address some of the concerns that were voiced as to the sufficiency of on-site parking. The input that you gave us is very valuable and that which the public gave us. These are issues which we would have never considered. You know, issues like hydraulic fluid and what happens. Well,
that's that's a good question, especially considering the location of the property. And we have to get you an answer on that. Likewise, uh the height of the uh of the lift, how high it's going to go, what type of vehicles, how long does it take for the thing to elevate. These are valuable questions that need to be addressed that one could
not reasonably anticipate as far as how long is it going to take when you press the button for the thing to go up. But if that's true, wouldn't you really want our professionals to have enough time to really look at it? >> Absolutely. >> And to give it not present it at the meeting and say, you know, if they were given it 10 days ago,
>> then they're coming up to the meeting and they're prepared. >> Yeah. But from a practical standpoint in in a perfect world perhaps, but what would have happened is potentially we would have gotten a report today or yesterday and we would have never been able to provide you the answers that we were looking for that you you requested
and and were entitled to. But I can tell you this, with all of this um comments and questions that were presented here this evening, we have a very good idea as to what your concerns are relative to this possibility. What we hear here
tonight is this lift system is a possibility. It is not the answer uh as it is presented here this evening because you have open questions. So it's not the answer. In order to provide you the answer, Mr. Cardi is going to have to do further research. She's going to have to find out the answers to the
questions that you presented. Mr. Walker then is going to have to incorporate this system if we go with this system into his site plan and he will have to address the comments and concerns that were voiced not only by the board members but by the public and specifically the board engineer. So we have to address these issues in order to
figure out uh to be able to demonstrate that it works. Now this tonight was only for uh consideration but it's not for approval. We certainly >> So, so could we expect that at subsequent meetings you might have plan B, C, and D and they're going to just
come in front of us and it's like throwing spaghetti at the wall seeing what sticks. I mean, shouldn't you have a plan that you're confident in presenting that will give us and that we had time to examine so that we don't go through, you know, an hour of somewhat
wasted time when we really didn't get to the nuts and bolts and we don't even have the basis to ask the proper questions. You know, I'm glad I I know. I'm glad you said that. And I I want to I want to just outline a little bit of the history so that everybody can appreciate why we're here this evening
with this this proposal. Now, when we first started out with this application, we had an agreement with the Methodist church next door. It was in writing and it basically provided the opportunity to share parking. There was a foot bridge that was constructed between the two lots.
um and they were submitted as part of this application. As you all heard from the president of the board of trustees of the church, they revoked it. Now, one could certainly sue them over it, but the the applicant chose not to pursue any kind of legal remedy and let it go.
So, we had we came into the application process with the understanding that we had this additional parking contiguous, there was a foot bridge, etc., etc., etc. That's gone. So the next issue was is to try and accommodate uh the use by going from one service to two services. So you're going to hear testimony about
that as well. Now they have effectuated two services and it does help to some degree. Now when we came back at the last meeting there was still concerns after the two services that there was still parking issues. So with that we were examining other possibilities.
We've come to the conclusion that it is not feasible to create any additional pavement and any additional on-site atgrade parking due to environmental constraints in the area with the DP limitations etc etc etc. So that being said now we're left with what other
possibilities could we possibly have. So one of the alternatives we sought was to acquire adjoining land from a a joint acquire land from an adjoining property owner. So I have an exhibit here this evening that's going to explain our efforts. letters were sent to every contiguous property owner with an offer
to buy their land. So, whoever uh owned property adjacent to this, whether it was the church or the neighbors that are here this evening with their attorney, everyone was requested to sell all or part of their land for fair market value. Uh, everyone but one, there was only one resident that offered to sell
us some area that was in totally environmentally constrained, about 30,000 square feet, which really didn't do us any good if other people didn't join in. It's almost like it's one contiguous lot was necessary for another, but ultimately it came to the we came to a legitimate effort we uh to
purchase adjoining land to no avail. So now having lost the ability to park at the Methodist church, not having the ability to create additional on-site parking due to D requirements and then likewise being uh I'll say rejected by adjoining property owners to sell
adjoining to buy adjoining land. Now, we're left with the possibility of creating additional on-site parking, not at grade. And when we looked at the opportunities to do this, this is the I'll say the most viable uh suggestion. Now, I realize that you would love to have seen it on a plan uh in advance so
that everybody could get an idea as to what it is, but I would tell you this that this is um been very helpful. We have uh substantial feedback from the board, the board professionals and the public as to their concerns associated with this. This is going to require
substantial further investigation. Uh likewise, it's going to require a substantial modification to the site plan in order to address this. So, I can tell you this that there will be revised plans submitted that address Mr. Monoitz's prior concerns and comments in his report and likewise address the
concerns that were voiced this evening with regard to this lift system. Uh and then when those plans are resubmitted, you'll have the opportunity to review them in greater detail and then see if there's any further concerns and if there are, we'll endeavor to address that. But uh please don't feel as this has been a waste of time. It's been very
helpful. I mean, I've been taking detailed notes throughout. I I have I have every comment, every concern that was raised by the neighbors. Mr. Cardi was taking notes and these are issues which deserve or questions that deserve uh legitimate responses and we're going to get this information for you. I can't
promise we're going to get a mechanical lift here in front of you in a in a a miniature form, but we certainly will get information that addresses the concerns about timing and noise and and maintenance and whether there's any hydraulic fluids that leak. These are all issues that des uh or questions that
deserve responses and it would be unimpossible for us to have given you this information this evening without getting your input. And I realize Mr. Lammanoitz would have been helpful, but this is extremely helpful for us to determine whether or not this is a viable alternative in order to address the concern of on-site parking.
>> Sir, you have a question of this I'm sorry. I just have one I just have one thing to say. All due respect, and I do mean it with respect, we still don't know how many parking spaces are on the piece of property. Mr. Lman has asked
that, and we don't have that number even yet. >> You know, uh I I know people here in the audience that would have that answer for you and we could certainly get you that answer this evening before any other witnesses come forward. >> I I think that's important. >> Yeah, I think it's a good question and I think it is entitled to a rapid answer
and I do appreciate the respect. Thank you, >> sir. You have a question of this applicant on his testimony only. >> Yes, I do. >> Edward Edward Crider, 84 Preston Road. Um, where did the 5 foot 10 number come
from? Was that an arbitrary, you know, took 12 foot and divided by two and just kind of took two inches. >> Honestly, that's kind of a fault of, you know, drawing in in AutoCAD. Um we just the person who drew this just I said put the dimension there instead of putting 6
ft like we had discussed with the with the representative it came out to 5' 10 1/2 in. So that's >> so it is so it is an arbitrary thing you divided you just divided it by two it it's not based on real data >> totally arbitrary
>> okay because I think it's false >> it can go it can go up and down >> well I think it would have to I mean how tall are you? me 54 5'5. >> Okay. So, I mean, when you were cleaning the top of your car, okay, from the last snowstorm, could you really see the top
of your car? >> Well, my car's in a garage. So, >> well, I'm saying if you were cleaning it outside, but the question still when you're standing, can you see the top of the roof of your car? >> Especially >> mine, I can, but my son has a truck and I cannot.
>> Okay. So, what I'm saying is the 5 foot 10 number is totally out to lunch. >> I mean, I'm that's that's just a given. >> We're going to carefully coordinate our design with these companies that do thousands of these all over the world.
>> Okay. Um the other question is, I mean, I might have a little bit more knowledge than others. I own a hydraulic lift, okay, that's electrically driven. Um, as a safety feature, they have PS. So that maybe every 4 in or whatever it locks
in. So that if all of a sudden the hydraulics fail, it comes down and it rests on a paw so it doesn't fall further. That resolution is not an inch, just so you know. I mean, it's more like 4 in. So if you think that you're going
to be playing games with all of a sudden, hey, I'm going to go up five feet, n and a half inches, that's not realistic. Okay. A safety p has to be taken into account also for it to come back down.
>> Understood. >> Okay. Um the other question is if all of a sudden it is in the up position and there's a resident that has an emergency, how do they get their car? Are they just stuck?
>> Operational question. >> Yeah, that's what I figured. Okay. >> Time on duty. Are there any other questions of this applicant and his testimony this evening? >> I see. >> Mr. Shephis. >> Okay. Very good. Well, the question that
was pres Mr. Cardi, thank you for your testimony and you have your list of questions. So, between now and the next meeting or at least 10 days before the next meetings, if you please get us the responses, I appreciate it. >> Sure. >> All right. Our next witness is Mark G. Walker. Mr. Walker is the site engineer.
Uh there was question presented as to the number of parking spaces existing, number of proposed. So Mr. Walker, I'm going to ask you to come up. Uh you were previously sworn, you gave testimony at at least one, maybe two >> prior meetings. >> So specifically, there was question
posed with regard to the number of existing spaces and then the number of proposed spaces. So you were present throughout the questioning this evening? >> I was. Yes. >> Mr. Walker, you understand you're still on the road, correct? >> Yes, I do. changed with respect to your qualifications. Want to hear the operational? >> I think we're going to hear him first
and then the operation. >> Okay. >> Is Mr. Walker's testimony limited to one particular aspect? >> Correct. Uh as we were sitting here just moments ago, uh one of the board members uh had specifically requested information as to the number of existing
parking spaces and then likewise how many were proposed. So I'm going to ask Mr. Walker if he would please enlighten the board or share with us the information that he has on that topic. >> Sure. The um the number of existing parking spaces on the lot is 111
>> and proposed >> uh proposed is 113 but our traffic engineers got his testimony proposed for that tonight. >> So is that counting the 22 lifts >> right? Does it? >> Uh no it does not. >> Okay. >> And what's the number that we believe is
required? Uh it's actually we are actually under the ordinance we're compliant with parking. Um the required number of parking spaces 107. >> You're referring to a plan. Which plan is the date on that?
>> Excuse me. >> You're referring to a plan. What is the date on that plan? >> Uh this plan was revised uh May 13, 2025. >> Should be the plan that everybody has. >> That's the latest one.
The plan says 117 provided. >> Uh it says 100 >> 117 is provided. Correct. >> You said 113. >> Uh that's correct. 100 I did say 113. Uh
there was some testimony uh earlier about eliminating four parking spaces that had to do with the drop off area. So that gets us down to 113. But on these plans it's 17. That is correct.
>> Um just at the last hearing we we discovered or that the parking calculation method was incorrect. >> It goes by one per three seats where when there's no seats, there's a specific portion of the ordinance that says how how you calculate it by square
feet. Was that done? >> Uh it will be done in our future revised plans. >> Okay. because I I we had a plan that was submitted. Uh the ordinance requires a calculation an illustration to go along with that which we didn't get to do the
parking calculation and I scaled off best I could and I came up with 113 spaces required just for the mosque. >> Mhm. >> So that means anything beyond what you have now for the new residential
building is above and beyond what is required. And apparently it sounds like what you're providing. >> All right. We will have some uh further testimony and submission of plans for that. >> All right. Thank you. >> I think uh point of my testimony was to
straighten out the number of existing spaces on the site. >> Okay. Thank you. So the only thing we're sure of is that there is existing 111 spaces. >> We are 100% sure of that. >> Okay. >> That's the only thing we're sure of. Well,
>> we're not sure exactly how many is going to be required >> or how many is going to be provided, but we're sure there's 111 now. >> Correct. Okay. >> So, how are we expected to ask the right questions, get the right answers
on in any of this? >> Isn't it incumbent on them to at least have that basic information? Well, I I seem to be hearing that before the next meeting, there's going to be revised site plan. Is that correct? >> That is correct.
>> And that's going to indicate exactly how many spaces are going to be provided. >> That's correct. >> And it's going to calculate the number of spaces that are required based upon all the ordinance provisions that are applicable. Is that accurate? >> That is correct. And our board will get
that how many days prior to the meeting? >> Two weeks minimum. >> Okay. Suppose I have new stuff for tonight. >> Tom, do you recall seeing any of the paperwork filed by this application showing the
deficit or offsite parking that is common? >> I've asked I've asked for that. I've asked for uh uh an analysis of how many of the vehicles required to or typically arriving to deliver uh members of the
church and that have to park off site and that was never answered. >> Well, we both have asked the question. I just want to make sure I didn't couldn't find it today. Um, I could >> Are you is your traffic expert going to provide
a survey of off-site parking during the Friday prayer sessions? >> Yes, he will. >> Have we seen that yet? >> Have you seen it yet? I believe it I believe it was incorporated in his uh traffic report, but he's here this
evening and certainly he'll be able to testify to that. >> Okay. Is two weeks enough for our professionals that enough time for our professionals to have to be prepared for questioning on the next meeting >> or any meeting? >> I can I can get it, you know, if I'm if
I'm expecting it, I can I can get it put together and give give everybody at least a few days ahead of time. >> Okay. >> You know, so that people can digest the report because I don't like coming to a uh without having my report out there either because it just again slows the process. >> To you or us,
>> right? So yeah, the key to this is knowing it's coming, >> right? >> Uh yeah, if it'll help, we'll get the plans uh to Mr. Lmanowitz's office even with more time. Uh the municipal land use law requires 10 days, so you know,
three three weeks should be more than enough. >> Are there any questions from the board of this applicant's uh testimony? Mr. Mills, >> you have any questions on just the testimony he's given tonight? >> I'll reserve my questions.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mills. >> Is there anyone in the audience that is any questions of the testimony given by this? >> Just the number the number just one >> just just on the testimony he gave this evening. >> Correct. Okay.
>> Hi, my name is Double Sha 86 South Parl Road. Again, these are my views. Uh disclaimer, do not represent the >> Just ask your disclaimer. Just go. >> I have to do the disclaimer. Uh okay. So, um the 107 required spaces is that after
the apartment building calculation, I know it said the calculation was off, but >> yeah, we're we're actually the point of my testimony was to address the number of existing parking spaces. So, uh, we will be revising the plans to address Mr. Lmanowitz's questions and make a
full submission. I do appreciate your question. I think it's more appropriately asked at the next meeting. >> Okay. Cuz you did mention 107 uh in the meeting in the questioning. >> So, disregard the 107 number completely because it's wrong >> for now. It's not necessarily, but okay.
>> It needs to be reviewed. >> Okay. What about the 113 number? Do we regard that number right now? Yeah, that's the number of proposed parking spaces. Uh once we subtract parking spaces to address uh >> the four the four spaces, correct?
>> Okay. So, right now with 111, we're having parking issues and I guess that's a traffic question. Uh minus now the residents apartments parking. So, we'll have an overflow. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. You're welcome.
A question just on the testimony he gave this evening. >> How many parking spaces >> will there be would out sir >> if the lift is not approved? >> Sir, we need your name for the record. >> Uh Nicholas Hamac.
>> Thank you. >> 113. >> That's if the lift is not approved. >> Correct. And will that fit in the 125% allowed footprint?
>> I'm not sure of the question. >> Uh this project is a for a house of worship. Uh can I ask the question what exemption if there is any that was given for this
uh project for the uh Highlands Water Protection and Planning Act exemption? >> Is there such a form that this >> that that doesn't have anything to do with the testimony that he gave this evening, sir? Well, it has everything to
do with it because you depending on what exemption was given and it should be number six. >> It's for nonresidential >> sir. Sir, he testified as to number of parking spaces that are currently there on the site. Do you have any questions
about that? >> Okay. Uh >> what part of this uh space will be consumed by a by a space for trash? a dumpster and source separation. >> That has nothing to do with the
testimony that he gave this evening. Do you have any questions about the testimony that he gave this evening? >> Didn't he just answer one question? >> Didn't he just answer one one question? >> Correct. >> That's the only question he answered is how many spots? No other question other than that.
>> Well, it it will take a spot for a dumpster and source separation. and it will take a spot >> previously. >> That I believe your question was previously asked. >> Okay. >> So, and that it's not >> that has nothing to do with the testimony that he gave this evening. So,
do you have any questions about the limited testimony he gave this evening? >> None. >> Is that your word? >> All right. We're done with Mr. D. >> Walker. >> Walker. Sorry about that. >> No problem. Thank you. >> Is home tonight. >> Okay. Shall we continue or is there a
need for a break or >> can we take a two-minute break >> stretch of the legs? >> Mr. Shepher, are we going to hear from the operational? >> Yes. >> Well, but more than just operation, this is all of the questions that were deferred to the father, Mr. Kokar. He's here tonight, so he's going to cover
everything that was missed up till this point. >> Yes. But we specifically asked for the the lift information. And you said you had someone I believe you said you had someone here that would be answering the questions that was were asked of this of this uh lift operation.
>> Yeah, that's not tonight. Tonight it would be everything else. >> All right. Thank you. >> Oh, he's not here. >> No, he's not here. >> No, just just >> Yeah, we No, we wasted two hours. an hour and a half. 7 o'clock at an hour
and a half. You're correct, sir. >> Mr. Bundy, please turn your >> Yes. So, everybody knows who you are >> when they start yelling at you. >> These guys are engineers for God's sakes. >> Are they? >> I don't know. Just the guys that came up
desperately. There. That's it. >> Excuse me. Right back. I don't think he did a good job. >> And spell your last name, please. My first name is Tjamal. T A J A M M U
L. Last name is a Coker. K H O K H A R 113 Harrison Street, Boom, New Jersey. >> Thank you. >> Harrison. Harrison. >> Harrison. >> Harrison like William Henry. >> Gotcha.
>> Okay. Uh Mr. Kokar, can you please uh explain to the board your relationship to the applicant property owner entity? How are you uh affiliated with that entity? >> I am uh I'm a founder of IBSA, Islamic Burial Serve Association
2011. Uh property is uh uh belongs to IBSA and I'm the president. However, we doing a a IT C Islamic community service grow uh service association as the DBA IC. So
IBSA and DBA IC. Now, can you tell the members of the board and the public this entity that owns the property, is it a taxexempt entity or religious entity? >> Yes, IBS is a 501-3 tax exam uh
property. >> And as such, is it operated uh by a board of trustees? In other words, there's no shareholders or or owners of the entity itself. No the we have a five board of trustee and they are on the whole project
>> and what is your position in the entity? >> Like I said I'm a founder and the president and the trustee >> and as such are you authorized by the entity to be here this evening and to give testimony on behalf of the applicant entity? >> Yes I do. >> Okay very good. So let's talk about the
entity itself. You mentioned the year 2011. Is that correct? >> Yes. And what transpired with regard to the entity in 2011? >> Well, uh I have to go back 2011.
Uh I'm basically involved a lot of volunteer uh project in Bontton. I was also involved with Islamic center of Bon and mosque in B state back in 1986. Uh I was also part of planning board in
Bon 15 years. I'm also a president of a main street trustee of Main Street Boom and during co we have a situation where we see uh seeking the help for the people so I happened to get involved the
firemen host home in bon >> fireman's home >> home in bon we realized that uh they were uh needed food they need help so myself without any umbrella we went over
there. We helped them and that inspired me that we have to think about ourself. One day we going to have this situation where we sitting without our children and looking for help. So 2011 I start this project to helping a Muslim community to arrange their burial
because when person I uh especially in our community they don't know where to do what to do. I've been involved in the burial arranging the burial myself since 1990. However, 2011 I started my own project
and then I was uh uh during co it was very uh you know helpful situation. and I help a lot of families and matter of fact I'm the only Muslim uh burial services able to reach out the
people arrange their burial. After that I had opportunity u somebody told me that uh uh Bethlehem that temple Bethlehem they are in financially stress and uh they're you know they're looking
some way to to see how they can survive. So I approach over there and we sitting we talking and I ask them I say you know they say we want to rent. I said well you know I don't want to rent it but if you like to sell we buy it and they were happy. Oh we never thought about it. So
finally long story short it came in conclusion we settled some agreement. I personally under the umbrella IBSA purchased that property. That was 2020 September we have a clothing and 21st we
have a first prayer over there January 21st since >> Hey just so I could just briefly interrupt you and I don't want to interrupt your flow but I have to uh prior to taking up occupancy of the premises did you seek out and secure the
necessary zoning permit or certificate of approval from the Parcipony Troy Hill zoning official in order to authorize the use of the premises that was then Temple Betham for your facility. >> Yes sir. I didn't I have proper uh zoning permit. We operating this
institution under three different names. One name is IBSA which is DBA ICC. We have a zoning permit from the zoning department of Pipney and also running all the religious instit and permission for that to running that
uh uh services over there. >> Okay. Now let's first talk about IBSA and its u uh ownership of this property and what IBSA provides uh to your community. So, if you could describe for us as we sit here tonight, what it is
that your entity does, how the building is uh utilized in conjunction with those operations and how it is that you uh help the people in the community. >> You know, initially when I started IBS, I never thought about that it's going to
be going to that extent where uh you know, it's going to be situation where I have to get involved everybody. Uh so my sons, my wife uh mostly run by the family regardless of the trustee we have
it. Uh IBS originally became in in in in existence because of uh coordination with the family and the cemetery and the funeral director. IBS is not a cemetery nor we have a license
of funeral director. We do not have authorization to do any of those kind of work which funeral director does or cemetery does. We just coordinate when somebody call us or somebody have a this very sensitive
time they approach to us we offer them what they're looking for. So we offer them in different places but IBS owns the graves different cemetery in small section again we are not cemetery we own the certain section as a Muslim section
so they pick and choose whatever they go then we call the funeral director have arranged meeting with the family we don't partic IBS do not participate on that meeting because that is strictly between funeral director and the family and then same token when when they
agreed we IBS say authorize a grave, call the cemetery, funeral director call the cemetery and they arrange the arrival. However, IC offer the prayer for the deceased.
Now in our religion, it is very important to to whoever our loved one when they leave this world give them a full respect. Imagine any of us one day we all have to go the in this world only death is guaranteed
nothing else guarantee except death so nobody's prepared for the death however we encourage to our community they should be aware of when person come in this world in Muslim community little kid we have a call of
prayer we call adon we father call aon in the kid and any prayer we do we have to call adan. However, when person leave this world, we offer a prayer but we do not call the aan. Azan been called when he born or
she born in this world. So we hold this whole process. We bring the dead body in our center. We offer the prayer. We make announcement our community and more people participate the better it is. We give enough time. So we encourage
everybody should come and participate prayer. After prayer, funeral director takes the body to the cemetery and they bury the person. >> Now, if you could please identify the cemeteries in which IBSA owns plots and where these plots uh you know are sold
to um you know families in need. Uh if you would please just identify those cemeteries. >> IB has a web called Ibsj.org. wwsj.org. Everything listing black and white over there. IBS owned the grave in Wrestling
Memorial Park, East Hanover. Laura Grove Cemetery in Tortois. Uh Sunset Internal Sunset in Lafayette, Hamilton Township, Greenwood Cemetery, and uh one more in Butler, top of the uh
mountain. That's the five cemetery. We have grave zone there. We do not own the cemeteries. >> Okay. Now is it fair to say then these plots that your IBSA owns then you sell to these families? >> That's true. IBS invested 11 2011 all
the uh money in this graves and when income comes that's the income is running our center. We do not do any fundraising in our center. We don't ask anybody money. Nobody draw any salary from the center. All the volunteer
including myself everybody nobody takes a dollar from the center and no we do not ask people money it's only comes money revenue generated by IBSA IBSA run the center >> okay so now let's talk about the funeral
directors in which you function with can you identify some of the funeral directors with whom you work >> what IPS does time of need we have we call the local funeral director and we see who is available and who is going to give us the best price. We reach to that
person and then let family know they can talk each other. We have a uh funeral uh for those funeral home in um uh uh rington also Trenton. We have a Michigan funeral home. We have a Iman funeral home in New
York. We have uh park funeral home in New York. Bunch of those funeral home we reach. We have no direct any affiliation or any kind of uh interest in these uh funeral home. All we get their service and make sure our community gets served
properly. >> Now all of these funeral directors that you're recommending people to do they provide services in your uh faith's traditions? >> Yes, there are mo Muslims and we deal
reason we use them because they are Muslims. So we don't have to worry about you know they're not going to be our a loved one not going to be treated properly. >> All right. So without getting into great detail but I believe it's going to come up uh because there was questions raised during your son's questioning or
testimony as to the tenants of your faith as it relates to the operations at the facility associated with these burial services. So could you briefly just explain to us uh what occurs in your uh traditions uh under your
direction or under the direction of a funeral director associated with these services that you've just described? uh when some loved one somebody passed away
obviously the family reach us they call us and they tell us you know that father passed away or mom passed away so most of the time I go they go and ask him where I can help them so they ask
question and then after that we I tell them procedure procedure is this first you have to find out which cemetery you like to go. They ask pricing. I tell them pricing. Then they ask what the next step. I said then we have to call the funeral director who's going to remove the body either from hospital or
from home. They can take to the funeral home where they prepare the body and then they will bring to Islamic center where we offer the prayer and then we go to cemetery. Cemetery has their own charges which is called opening and closing.
uh they they charge and that I get paid to pay them. So funeral director and everything they write me a one check which I distribute money to everybody under the uh knowledge of that uh family. This is what we do. >> Now there was testimony during your
son's uh presentation about a mobile uh I'll say washing vehicle and then likewise Mr. Lmanowitz had asked questions about the discharge of the water and you know look I understand that it's uh maybe a little technical but I think it deserves comment on your
part as >> well I love to explain everything but uh the thing is this yes we do have mobile facility which we are not using because uh uh we have a complaint against us to the attorney general of state of New
Jersey. So I am under investigation and they have asked me that I cannot perform that uh service for time being for that reason I cannot make any comments because you know again it is under investigation uh unless it's finalized I cannot do
more than that what I just explained you. Okay. So, basically what you've described this evening as far as the operations are the operations under the guidance of a licensed funeral director and then likewise you're assisting in coordinating uh burials and then you
sell uh grave plots. >> Yes, that's true. That's true. Under no circumstances I have authority or I do anything which is I'm not allowed to do it. Now the the last question I have on this topic is if you could just briefly touch
on what these services are that's offered to people. I mean in your tradition because I think it plays into the timing from the time you get a call as to a a relative of one of your community dying to the time that you're actually at the cemetery. Can you give
us an idea how long passage of time that is and why that is? Muslim faith is very critical about the disease because we are uh we are uh advised that when it happen our first priority to take care
of the disease. So normally it's my goal IBF goal is this we can do a burial same day. So uh for example if somebody calls me 2:00 in the morning or evening today I will make sure that tomorrow
1:00 burial has been taken care of sometime I get a call early in the morning and then I still take care unless other there's some legal issue what is legal issues the process is this when I get a phone call like I said we have to get involved the funeral director funeral director's job is this
to get issue the uh death certificate. Death certificate is something only be done by the funeral director. Nobody else can do because they are licensed. Once funeral director able to get the death certificate, then he or she has to
get a permit. Cemetery will not allow to bury anybody without permit. That's two piece of paper always take longer time. Uh because state is not waiting for us. Whatever we have a need, they don't care. But my job and funeral director
job to push hard. We get involved the uh doctor who was there to order the pronounce the deceased death. We asked them they make some phone call and 90% we ma managed to able to get this thing very fast and when it happened
everything moved nice and slow nice and smooth and and and be taking care of everything. >> Okay. Now, at what point in the process do they come to the IC in order to have your I I'll use a term that everybody would understand. I'll say like funeral.
So, when would that occur? >> I was told once, you know, I can call I cannot call funeral myself because I'm not funeral directors. That's why I'm using word burial. Uh normally our uh burial uh funeral time
is around 2:00 because we have a midday prayer around 1 1:15 and we 90% we try to accommodate that funeral service around with this prayer. Two reason one it's a middle m middle of day midday so everybody can come as so mostly it's a
lunchtime so we can get more people that's the reason and plus we have enough day left a process go nicer it won't get dark so let's say if prayer is called 1:15 we encourage the funeral director bring the body not less more
than 12:00 around 12 10:15 so half an hour 1 hour is giving to the family only they can sit with the disease they can read Quran on they can view if they like and after that we bring the box in the prayer hall and we offer the prayer over
there and then we can take the body put the horse and go to the funeral uh to a cemetery >> now Taj I'm going to draw your attention to the plan that's up on the easel it was received as exhibit A3 prepared by Mr. Aari uh showing the floor plan of
the existing ICC facility. Do you recognize what's depicted there? And >> yes, that's our main floor. >> Uh it is uh it shows a two section. There's a curtain in between. Matter of fact, it's not curtain. What time being we put a curtain but it has a partition
wall. Our main prayer hall which is say 38x 47. That's the only area we use our praying. The back is our community hall. That's hall we use uh uh during pray we leave the curtain open because just a fire hazard god forbid something happen
there like 150 people over there praying sometime 175 so they want to go so they have overex all the doors open that's the reason but mostly community hall is used for uh two three occasion number one uh like I said if this burial
happened the family likes to get together sit together share the information about the disease want to have a food so we can provide the banquet hall for them very uh we have also wedding over here now our wedding is not that other
wedding and a lot of people don't like to come because the first condition anybody has to come the community hall they have to remove the shoes nobody likes to remove the shoes so that's why we don't you know use the hall quite often but some people likes to have wedding they can have a you know batting
over there, no music, no alcohol, no dancing, all those no no is not set a lot of lot of people but mostly people they like and they use our community hall they're strictly used for that reason. >> Okay. So let's talk about the I'll say the burial services you show here on
this plan a main prayer hall >> okay and it notes on the plan 38x 47 is that where these services are conducted for >> for prayer we can pray in this hall but other services like the family want to sit together have a meal
>> they have to sit in the community hall nobody allowed to eat or drink in in main prayer hall Okay. Now, um with regard to uh the facility itself, now that you've addressed this issue, are there uh are
there any other um rooms where prayer occurs other than where it's noted as main prayer hall? I do see an area off to the side. It says prayer with chairs. What is that? >> Well, we have some people handicapped. They cannot uh sit on the floor. So, for
them, we provide them chairs and that's the chairs area for them. >> Okay. Now the board engineer Mr. Lmanowitz had raised the issue before about the parking calculation and PCAN to its credit has two parking standards for places of worship such as this. uh
well one being uh something where there's chairs and there's parking spaces allocated to the number of chairs and then uh religions if you will which don't have chairs >> main >> it's yeah it's based upon a square footage and a potential um you know
overall areas dedicated to this now let's talk about how that plays into the parking now you mentioned that the prayer area with chairs has a specific number of chairs Yeah, maybe 10, 15, 10, 10 10 to 12.
>> And that's reserved for people that cannot otherwise. >> And we never fill those 12 chair any prayer. Never. Maybe maximum four person to five. Uh back then when we started, yes, we have a lot of people because we
have only one congregate, one prayer and and then that fills full up. But since we split our prayers in two prayers, two times, it never fills up. >> Okay. Now, this area where it's uh
prayer with chairs, is it reserved only for people that are sitting? In other words, you don't have people that are otherwise on the floor. It's just people in chairs. >> People who have a problem with the knees. >> Okay. Now, where you have the main prayer hall, uh are there any chairs in
there or is it all on the floor? There's no chair allowed in the main prayer hall unless otherwise there's only maybe less 15 people and one person don't feel comfortable sitting alone in that area. So he pull the chair you know again when
we pray it's more it's more respected and rewarding when we all stand in one line. We cannot have two people standing here and five here. They all have to stand one line. So some occasion when you have only 10 15 people uh he feels comfortable he pull the
chair and pray us and pull the chair back. We're very rare happen this one. >> So in order to understand the parking demand and how it plays into the uh occupancy of the premises. Could you just briefly explain to the board and
the public how these services are conducted where people are not in chairs like you would have at the Methodist church next door, but how it works in this facility? Uh are people seated? Are they laying prostrate? How how does this work? Uh and um how many people do you
anticipate would be in the facility at any given time? >> You know, it's a >> in the prayer room, I should say. You know it is a it is a sad situation because uh mostly people in the board and the audience they do not understand
what we do what is our process to pray why we pray and what it's all about. So I have to lay out the grounds to understand in our faith in our faith we are ordered by the god we have to pray five times a day
that time is not set for whole year it changes we follow lunar calendar that calendar is moon goes around the moons we don't follow the sun calendar for praying and since this time change and fight time and and for the men
the present in the mosque is mandatory. If you can, you must go to a mosque. You are not going to pray home. Unless you have a reason like snowing. Yeah. Your work your work time does not allow you to the mosque. That's okay. But under no circumstances you can say, "Oh, I cannot
go mask. I can't pray." No, pray is compulsory. There's no way out not praying it. So we pay five times a day. And our first prayer start, our date change on the sunset.
Today it was 511. That's where our day change. That's where our first prayer is. Our second prayer before go to bed is start after 7:30. But we pray at 8:00, 9:00, it depend 10:00. That's very flexible. But in in the Islamic center,
we have certain time. So everybody can join us. And then third player happened before sunrise. Today it was 5:09 in the morning. Summertime may go up to 3:40 3:30.
And then third prayer happen that's third prayer. Fourth prayer happens midnight around 1 midday 1:15 1:00. And the third happened about 4:00 is a between after 1 and between before 5:00 in the middle time is also changed. 3:30
start 4:00. Today was 3:40. So this five times we pray every day. No exception, no day off, no other way to out. However, Friday is the only prayer everybody wants to come pray because it
is mandatory. It is a uh Friday is our like a most holy day and it's only one prayer happen on that particular way gathered. However, we still have to pay other four prayers. It's not that we exempt Friday only one prayer. We don't
know Friday is the prayer and that prayer is the causing problem. We all over here because of that prayer because that prayer bring lot of people in my center. very beginning we used to have a 400 people 450 parkings all over but
when you started project you know board has a concern and I understand that but we also have a concern we don't want to give board more work so issue of the public and issue of the race from the board we address before we come over here that's the reason we started this project with 29
unit back building was very big sad we realized people don't like it we reduce it now we combined it So we address the issue we go along though this five prayer I like said is important for us and Friday is the most important. >> So let's talk about these five prayer
sessions on a daily basis and let's exempt Friday for the first round of questioning um and how it relates to the parking demand at the facility. So, as you have these various um times throughout the day, starting I guess at
sunset and then working your way to sunrise and then midday and then eventually around 3 or 4:00 in the afternoon. >> So, let's start sunset. That's prayer called 5:15 today. 511 the time for the
actually leading the prayer 10 minutes after the prayer comes. So, that was 5:21 today. There was only four people today because everybody's working. >> Four people >> who who officiates over this prayer session. >> We have imam. He comes over here and
mostly sometime he's only by himself. So today we have maybe four or five because I had to come here. So I did my prayer exactly 511. I did not wait for him because I have to run here. But that time only we had three four people. Now
if we were there counting parking uh in the lot at that time >> five cars. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Now take us through the balance of the prayer. >> I am please. >> And next prayers come 7:30. That 7:30 we have a maybe maximum maximum 20 people max. We're lucky if I
get a 20 people. 20 people do not have a 20 cars because mostly two or three people come family come like myself my son everything we have one car. So give and take we have a seven cars maybe eight cars that around 7:30 prayers then
come the next prayer which is only in the morning today it was uh uh I believe 5:19 in the morning 5:19 morning we were only three people over there myself imam and one more
person over here that's it and lately we have this pattern now comes fourth prayer which is 1:15. 1:15 is mostly a prayer where people has a lunch. So beginning prayer we were only two guys
then middle of prayer one guy came he join is three guys when we finish were four guys after four guys prayer finish and then people come and go as they have a time from the break they come and go. So give and take we have a maybe six seven car come and go come and go that's
1:00 1:15 2:00 people kind of some people sit over there they be longer lunch they finish the prayer they sit and then go the last prayer comes around 420
believe it or not sometime only I imam only the imam is there nobody there I myself is not there because I'm doing some running around and one car imam car over there given take maybe I join or somebody joins two cars. So this is our regular routine every day.
>> All right. Now before we go into Fridays, let's talk about uh the period of time that these prayer uh events I'll call them uh five days uh five times per day from start to finish. Can you estimate for the board and the public
how long these prayer sessions uh take? First prayer takes maybe 7 minutes max. Second prayer which is 7:30 at night it takes near about 15 minutes.
Third prayer which is 520 in the morning takes 10 minutes 15 minutes 10 to 15. Third prayer takes 5 to 6 minute. Fifth prayer, I'm sorry, that's fourth
prayer. Fifth prayer takes five to six minutes. >> Now, is it your goal to um make the facility available to all the people of your community for all of these prayer sessions? In other words, it's not by invitation only.
>> We in the IT C, we don't have a membership. We do not close door for anybody. Anybody welcome to join the prayer. Many time we have a non-Muslim come and join observe the prayer and we let them come
inside. We are open for everybody. There's nobody is denied for any kind of situation. >> All right. So is it fair to say that despite this open invitation and uh availability for anybody to come these
are the numbers that you would see uh on a daily basis for six of the seven days. >> Yeah. If somebody come and say hey look I was there in June 5:00 and you're telling me there's a fifth prayer only four people but that time I see 10 people. Yeah. Five six
o'clock February off people increase but not more than five six people because again you have to realize the timing of giving you only winter time which has happened this week summertime it changes but giving time is never more than 20
people one prayer except Friday now let's talk about the use of the facility and the room specifically and I draw your attention to A3 which is the uh floor plan of the existing uh ICC facility Uh there's noted on there the uh main
prayer hall and the prayer area with chairs and then the community hall. Where do these prayer meetings occur that you had just described as being the five prayers per day? >> Yeah, Molly prayer hall, main prayer hall. >> Okay. Now let's talk about Friday. Now
Friday, uh there is a window of time somewhere between I'd say 1:00 and 3:00 where there is this uh I'll say uh increased parking demand. Is that fair to say? >> Yes. >> All right. So, let's talk about the start of the day. Uh you start out with
the uh with the early morning prayer. Which prayer is it that you find that's bringing the most >> Friday? Why? >> Friday. Um I I start my day first prayer. No, I'm sorry. Third prayer. Uh
and then mostly I stay in the center because we have to prepare clean the bathroom do the vacuum cleaner vacuums make sure everything's spanky because you know it's a house of Allah so like we clean my house I can clean more than
my house that house my wife helps me she is doing her thing this particular Friday prayer is taking replace of the number four player prayer number four prayer is 1:15
and that's when but but that 1:15 is a flexible time. We can alter the time. We can do a 12:00, 12:30, 1:00, 1:30, 2:00. It depend in summer time we have more window. Winter time we have a very small window and we
try to see how we can accommodate people and main me main time we have to respect the neighbors that we don't draw too much crowd that people can upset so right now we have a Friday first prayer is 11 12:30
uh it is finished 1:00 and then second I start 1:30 and finish 2:00 I have a 1 hour gap deliberately because I don't want people sit and wait. Oh, I missed first one and I'm going to do a second
one and they occupied my parking lot. So, I make sure everybody go home and re whoever wants to come, they come back again second time. That way we control the crowd. >> Now, when we first started this submission, you did not have two services in midday. Correct. Now, there
was concern voiced by the public and and likewise some of the board members as to the availability of on-site parking and you had just testified as to these two services. So, why don't you tell us in addition to going to two services uh what other um means you have effectuated
in order to try and eliminate or at least uh reduce some of the concerns associated with the uh parking demand? Well, first of all, I I I made it very clear. I hope board understand how many time we pray and why we pray.
Friday prayer is important prayer. Uh I have to be very careful when I I announce Friday prayer because Friday prayers earliest time start after when
sun clears 12:00 line. I cannot do before 12:00. So earliest I can do 12:15. Winter time it's no window. So summer time it goes to 1:00. 1:15 start. That's why 1:15 is our standard time. We don't
change. Our fifth third uh fourth prayer is all year round is still 1:15 and that prayer draw much crowd like I said uh like you people they go keep Saturday they like to go to synagal Christian
they like to go Sunday church our time is Friday prayer and the Friday midday prayer and that's why we draw more crowd >> all right so now let's talk about who officiates over these uh midday prayers prayers on uh on Friday. Do you do this
service or do you have somebody else perform the service? >> I wish I can do it but they will kill me. Uh no, we have to get a qualified imam. Every every week we have a different imam. They coming from uh
different uh place of New Jersey. Uh we sign them ahead every every imam is signed for the week. uh we have a schedule for whole year with us. Uh they come and uh they do first prayer and
they wait and do second one and they go home. They are not our residing imam. Sometime if god forbidden imam couldn't make it like last week he got snow he said we couldn't make it so we have to use our residing imam but mostly we get
service outside. Now, for the purposes of of just explaining uh how this works as far as uh the people coming in and then likewise the imam as a result of making the change, did you have to accommodate two different
imams in order to make these services or did you have to make other arrangements in order to accommodate two services versus one? >> It depends. Sometime I have to get a two mom imam sometime to get a one imam in order to um you know
I'm a retired mechanic engineer I can answer you lot of mechanics but a religion no I'm not good I ran the institution I know how to run the institution but I'm not imam so having said that I have to be see how we can satisfy
people's need praying and meantime not worry about the complaint from the neighbors. So we decided first prayer in Arabic language second one in English language which will help me a lot to reduce the crowd because now person
knows if I go first time it's in Arabic I can speak Arabic I am no problem the guy who doesn't understand Arabic he know I go second one because in English so that's we're doing now sometime imam cannot speak both languages so I have to
get the two imams >> now By having a service that's only in Arabic and another one that's only in English, how does that impact the number of people coming in and and therefore the uh parking demand?
>> Well, I I made my book, I think I made a difference, but you know, our tax expert will tell you because he was counting the number >> and uh it helps because uh uh not everybody speaks English, not everybody
speak Arabic. So they have a choice now. >> Now before you went to two services, how many people would you anticipate or have you experience coming to a Friday midday service? >> Oh, more than 400 people.
>> Now since we've had the um concerns that were voiced, how have you ma made that number go down? >> Two reason, two big reasons. One of one we have a two services and second there's two mosque in the town lakewata
they have a they are doing the prayer Friday prayer so people go over there and there's new mosque open lint road uh Islamic center of pipney they're doing a Friday prayer so people going over there and very shortly there's one more mosque
they're going to be open next to Mars stone they under construction so I know that the Mars plane and Marsstone own people not going to come in my center. >> Okay. So, let's talk about the demographics of the people that are coming to I'll say your center. Uh where
do you find that the majority of the people are coming from as it relates to the surrounding area or out of state or somewhere else? >> But you have to realize you know Pipony have this is the very first big mosque and people attract to my mask honestly
not for imam for parking. Oh, we can park over there. We go there. So, having said that, uh mostly people now they come from Pipney and uh uh I believe they come East Hanover
and and then one more mosque open in Livingston also. So, they don't come anymore. So, before the people are coming all over, but now it's just getting only people. Matter of fact, I recognize the faces now more than previously because they come quite
often. Rockway is getting busy too. Mostly people go Rockway. Used to come people Boom because it was convenient for them to do my prayer late. So they miss Boom, they come here. But now they go to Boom because by the time I'm done,
Boom is done too. So they rather don't come here anymore. >> Okay. Okay. So, is it fair to say that you've been able to reduce the number of people that are showing up to any individual prayer meeting? >> I think I made a bit progress. I mean, I I know I did and it reduced a lot of
numbers because I see the people coming in the first prayer maybe 100 and second prayer maybe 150 125. So, where four 500 people total if I put prayer together they are not more to 250 people but in
two congregate not one. Now, questions were asked during uh testimony from prior witnesses about your ability or your desire to grow the facility and to service more people. Can you tell us just from a uh a planning standpoint how
you envision the growth of this facility or perhaps not the growth of this facility and how you can service the people that call this facility home? >> We're talking about the project. No, no, existing before we even get into the residential component.
>> Well, let me let me rephrase the question. There was questions raised about the intent to grow the community. In other words, to bring more people to the facility. And it sounds to me that you're deferring people from coming by
adding two languages so that people that don't speak Arabic don't show up at the first session and those that only >> you know this is a very sad issue situation. One hand I'm pleasing people of God and providing them a facility where they can pray for him.
Other hand I am discou encouraging to not come in the center. So what shall I do? And my faith teaches me you have to respect the neighbors and my faith also teaches me that you have to provide the god's people place
where they can worship him. So where I stand so I have to find a common ground. I don't like I said put discourage anybody to come in my center. Everybody's welcome to do that. But however, I have to find a common ground
where I can have situation where I don't cause any problem for nobody. It seems to me uh my neighbors are not happy with me. Uh you know and and there's nothing I can do about the only thing make them present
being me disappear from that institution. I cannot do that because this was a house of worship. I didn't change anything. People built this synagogue for as a house of worship
and I'm doing the same thing, a different faith. But we all belong to same faith. No matter how you look at it, start from Ibraim. There's no difference there. Yeah, we have a different opinion, but we all worship same god. >> So, let's talk about the um other
services. When I say services, I don't mean particularly prayer services that are conducted in this facility. Now, I'm going to ask Mr. Cardi if you can come and flip over to the uh second floor plan. Oh, can you I don't know which one. Maybe it's the next sheet.
>> I can do that. No, it's >> Oh, good. >> Mr. Yes. Now, there are a number of classrooms up on the second floor of the existing building. Correct. >> First floor >> of first floor, forgive me. and it is noted as exhibit A4 and it was received
on October 22nd, 2025. Now there are a number of classrooms uh listed there. Can you tell us how those classrooms work? There are I think eight classrooms down there and before I took over that
building it was rented by a u some school and it were regular school over there. when I took over they said we don't have a school but we have a saturated school we have a uh kids come from different uh
grades and we just teach them about the value of Islam it start from kindergarten way all the way up to the eight level 10 level uh we have a teacher uh have a two-hour session and we do only that after that that whole
classroom is empty seven six days only we do Saturday from 9 to 1:00 and we utilize this facility for that. However, uh we encourage our youth they come twice a month and they can
conduct their uh we call haka mean their gathering and talk about their ongoing issues. They sit on there. My uh board of dire board of director who is in charge of the statuto school he sits over there. My office is over there and
then we have a a guest entrance over there. That's all we got. And we have a outdoor bathroom which is allowed to people travelers who are traveling. It is a common practice for Muslim that
when they're traveling they they miss their prayers or they know it's time for to miss one and two. So they Google and find a closest mask is happen to be a my mask right on the my center is right on 280 route 80. So they pull over there
there's outside bathroom there's a little prayer hall so person go inside utilize the bathroom he or she pray their previous prayer they prayer their coming prayer and they keep on their journey for that I I provide a facility
that's downstairs too >> okay is that shown on this plan >> yeah it says uh 24/7 prayers >> okay so that's for people that are traveling so that's got nothing to do with your no >> uh your facility upstairs. So if somebody's traveling and they have to
come in and pray, you allow them to use that room. >> And there's a reason for that. Before making this thing, I have my mask open for the people. So I get a phone call midnight around 12:00. I need to prayer. I want you to open the mask for me. So
myself, I have to come down, open the door. They can wash themsel, prepare, pray and go home. It was you know midnight and you cannot say no because they don't accept no. So when we come this idea no my center is 100%
locked. We have a cameras we have a remote control we can open the door when person call we can see his face on the camera then we open we watch when he pray goes home and door is locked. >> Okay. So is it fair to say that all of the classrooms that we see here that are
shown on exhibit A4, they're not operating at the time when you have these Friday prayers or otherwise uh when the facility is in >> they're only functional Friday Saturdays from 9 to 1. >> Now let's just talk about the overall
goals of the institute as far as it goes in servicing the community. What is it that you're trying to effectuate apart from just these services? What's some of the goals that you're attempting to affectuate and what other kind of services and when I say services I don't mean necessarily religious services but
what else do you do for people we have a situation where we uh couple young couple comes wants to get married we provide them a counseling we don't want to rush them because we see a lot of divorce going on they are not capable
to handle the load so they get married fast they divorce fast so we have a counseling ing arrangement for them. We also have a counseling for arrangement for the married couple. If they have problem, we help them. Somebody wants to
get married, we arrange their marriage. Somebody wants to have a gathering for their kid like you know born kid they want to have a little gathering we call aka mean when son born or daughter born you know they they serve with the family
we arrange them we give them a banquet hall they can sit over there banquet hall and they can have their uh you know gathering over there and uh that's a basically thing you know we have a situation where people come homeless
Yes, we have situation where fight is going in the family. She doesn't have a rent or or she doesn't have a a food for the baby. She need a card. She need a right to the doctor. So we arrange that one. My wife and I we do that. We have a funding we call Islam allowed to have a
zaka. Zaka is a charity money is come from people and we personally take that money and we put in the site where we help those people to a need. We of course we tell them we don't have a funding. Don't make a habit in one shot
deal but we do help them. >> All right. Now uh let's talk about the uh proposal that's brings us here this evening. This is the senior residents. So let's get into that because now it plays part of what we're here for. Now there is a plan here Mr. Cardi has
provided. Maybe you can come up and just >> No, no, not that one. The one with the u the floor plan for the proposed addition. Now let's talk about what it is that you're trying to effectuate. Now one of the conditions that we have provided to the board
is the uh proposal that this facility would be occupied primarily by persons of age 62 or older. Now if somebody's married uh they have a spouse that's younger than 62 then of course they would be included. uh but nonetheless at least one of the residents would be 62
and of course there would be no schoolage children in the facility. So give us first your um >> you know >> view of what you're trying to >> in the very beginning I mentioned something about the firemen house in boom I was in this facility many time
and I see people are sitting over there they retired firemen they did service for the community at the end they only getting what they pay for it I mean in their in their service when they get paid they have a certain percent goes to
the that facility ility at the end they are sitting and waiting for dying. I I go over there and and by the way there's not a one single Muslim over there. I just want you to know that I didn't go there because there's a Muslim and I go there but we go as a you know
human to humans the people need help talk to somebody ask how you doing what's happening you know that cheer them up and I realized in my community I'm here in this country 1987 uh we have a friends which we get
together and our kid used to play their kid they're old now I'm old too but they after retirement they have nowhere to go their kids are very busy their own life they don't have a time for their parents only thing we're missing this country
family values now community is a was first priority as I tell everybody we are the community for the community our job is to look after each other we I realized that you know how we can
give a platform our community they can be more united their families and more how they can understand each other father understand the children and children respect their parents so idea
just come this facility is above 62 they are one-bedroom apartment they're not very luxury apartments has a bathroom small living room small bedroom and that's that's about it you know there's not like you know much going on in that
room and I decided that let's bring a facility where a person in their old age can easily pray without worry about driving a car paying the heavy insurance or worry about that you know how in
reach because like I said it is not easy to come five days five times one day in the masid in the prayer hall because again driving getting late getting lazy and single person have nowhere to go
somewhere. He just want to pray and and watch. So I think this the best thing is this you know you have a father living in this facility and his son bring his children to the mosque for Quranic class
which we have every day for 1 hour that's around 5:00. So his kids, his grandkid and his son's kid going while they study the the Quran son can go visit sit his dad and talk about
everything. After half an hour when cat finish the run and see grandpa. So there's a family reunion over there. We are helping we are make sure they are living with the comfort. We're providing a breakfast where they are feel comfortable not worry about what they
going to eat tomorrow. and we providing one meal a day. However, it is not compulsory for them. They this is a free meal by the way. We're not charging anything. But they have to understand that they don't have to run to a grocery anymore because you know, of course,
they have a kitchen. They can cook. I don't mind. But they don't worry about because we are intent to take care those people. So they don't have to worry about driving and missing their prey. They can simply walk because this building is has a access to the new
building. They and also we have a a lift with takes the chair wheelchair uh access and and and go even they have wheelchair they can simply go to wheelchair in the prayer hall pray and once they get together there's a kitchen in that facility they're sitting in
about 100 people they can chitchat they have a friends over there they can pass the time they can gossip they can talk and then pray go back and sleep So this is the idea have this spoils me because
I said you know uh that somebody over there 70 acre land donated for this thing for facility fireman house Mr. Lothrop you know I learned this thing from this country you know one president said uh it's not what country can do for
you what you can do for country I don't need a money I'm not doing for myself everything is name of IBS is nonprofit with under five trustee nothing is on my name nothing is my family name so why because somebody has to benefit this is
I'm a 70 year old I don't know how many year left but somebody going to benefit and appreciate that And and the most important things like I said when father gets sick, father gets sick, son has to take care. He knows where he is. He
knows he doesn't have to worry about grandchildren has to know where grandma is, grandfather is. That's the idea I have in my head and that's why I try to achieve the goal. >> All right. So let's talk about the floor plan layout and I do appreciate that. So, uh, even though I'm moving along,
uh, I note that on this plan, it shows that the one-bedroom units are approximately 722 square ft. Is that correct? Somewhere. >> Yeah, mostly like that. Yes. >> Okay. Now, there are no twobedroom units, right? They're all onebedroom units. >> Yes, they're all onebedroom. >> Okay. And uh they only have a little
kitchenet and a little living room. >> Yes. Small living room, kitchen, and the bedroom. >> Okay. Now, I do note that uh on the main floor of this addition, there is proposed a uh I'll say it looks like a dining area. There's a number of tables and chairs.
>> Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 times 8 8 people >> and a little kitchenet. >> Yeah. Kitchen commercial kitchen. >> So, let's talk about what type of meals would be offered. You had mentioned breakfast and then another meal. So, what what are you offering? You know
my mom lived with me and I'm blessed and I'm happy that able to take care of my mom but there was situation she has to live in nursing home for one month. She felt she has a problem so she would
admitt nursing home. So when I go there we strictly told them what diet she has you know she doesn't we don't eat pork she doesn't eat this this this. Okay. So every time I go there they have big piece of ham sitting
in her plate. So mom doesn't know. My mom had no idea what she eating. So I go ask oh I'm sorry we made a mistake. That's why you knowing that's a very disturbing because we are not recognize what we eat what we can't eat. There's a
people in this world their faith allowed to do lot of things. In India people eat lot of stuff I don't want to mention. They drink a lot of stuff which is not heard but that's the religion I respect that but same program I would like to be respected my religion as well you know
having said that I've been more than 25 countries this is the only country face of earth have a freedom religion and I thank you for that and this is a great country and I'm proud to live here and proud to be a part of citizen of this
country anyhow my mom when I realized this things happening. I said this. So I took my mom. I never brought her to nursing home after that. She died home with me. I want to provide a meal which is comfortable for our community which is
our religion allowed to do that. And that's going to be happen. We have a volunteer families. They're willing to do that one. Uh they're going to make the meal. Uh we going to desire again if they don't like my meal, they don't want to eat, they have a kitchen. They can
cook whatever want to cook. I have no problem with that but we are trying to accommodate them as much we can that's idea I have >> so how does IC play a role in the meals to be provided to the senior residents
in this facility >> well you know this is getting a little tricky because uh we have a three entity running this institution one is IBSA one is IC one is a pick right now we are all under one umbrella
We made it very clear this particular units are tax not tax exempt. We're going to pay tax. There are no children. So nobody has to worry about children have to go to school and and and and you have a uh conversation with the tax
assessor. How you going to come the tax? So that's going to go in other umbrella and whoever going to be running that institution that's going to take care of the meals. >> Okay. Now, how is it that these meals will be um let's just say made free of
charge to the people? Who's who's going to pay for the food? >> Well, IBS is running so far this institution very successful and we have enough uh resource that we can accommodate that meals. That's no case.
>> And who will be the persons that would prepare and serve the food? >> Like I mentioned, you have a lot of volunteer families. They're going to come and they're going to take their turns. Like for example the father is father is living with us and daughter
decided that this day or or Sunday or maybe Monday I'm free dad I'm going to make a key so I get another lady with so both ladies can cook Monday you going to cook the meal Tuesday we can nomin somebody else so whole idea to to
community bring the community has together we our job to make sure bring that platform they will be together to got to know each other and helping each other you know
this is what is going to bring everyone together when somebody ask them don't worry about the money just get and be a volunteer I was volunteer in a main street boom as a trustee we go over there we take our time we sit we do what
we can and and feel good go to home that we did something becoming historical uh committee I wasn't sure I was sitting on the museum of boom nobody comes it's boring but it felt good okay I'm doing something
>> now let's talk about how the ministry I'll call ministry is incorporated into this senior residence now you had mentioned that IBSA which is the taxexempt entity would provide the food and that volunteers from the entity
would be cooking and serving the food >> right >> now. How does that work into the over overall I'll say religious goals of the ICC? In other words, why are you providing that and how does that tie into the operations of ICC?
>> Listen, when I started IBSA, I never knew I'm going to go that far and I'm blessed. Alhamdulillah, I'm getting a one step further more moving ahead moving forward. uh you have to realize you know our revenue whatever revenue
come from the IBSA we are very careful to utilize the revenue so we are uh we have enough funding to do this one uh basically you know everything goes to the IBSA only we cannot use this apartment building IBSA
because that's not tax exempt and that's why they have to stay independent however charity play major role in our faith It is going to be people's will make
people happy to do something for for somebody and I am the example from my family is the example. My son you know I bless my sons they have their own children but yet they gave enough time to the center to take the load from me. My wife she is also taking care. We have
a every month once family night just just come on maybe 150 people come here with the kid so bring the free food we don't charge anything we have a woman knife only mother comes they said today you can have it with free food we come
near about 50 ladies come they have a food good brother nice we have near about 50 60 brother comes over here they once a week youth comes over here we have near 50 kids come at night we feed them We let them sit them instead of going right and left rather like to come
in the center and sit yourself learn about the religion learn about the values that's what we provide. >> Now unlike other senior facilities I see no uh swimming pool or pitching putt or
pickle ball. There's no sports activities to speak of. There's you know nothing other than the institution and the religious use. So, can you tell us how it is that the uh seniors could benefit from the physical connection and
support from ICC as it relates to their uh living accommodations? >> You know, I always tell my kids unfortunately, you know, Islam is the religion where a lot of things
are not so pleasant. For example, we have to be very care when we call swimming pool, who's going to swim, men or women. We don't go to the country where we worry about what food we're going to eat. We cannot party because we
cannot drink, we cannot dance. So we have to see what is our religion allowed to do us on that parameter in that circle. We can do what we can. So, how can the senior residents benefit
from the physical connection uh ADA access from the residents into the community center? What are they going to use the community center for? And how does it benefit them in order to have the two buildings? >> Like I said, once a month we have a
brother nights, once a month we have a family night. So those people are definitely going to come in the community hall where they can be joining us in the brother nights and the family
nights. That's two weeks. Now moving forward if it is need we can extend our program. I don't know in what capacity but it depend what kind of need we had and what what kind of requirement those people have.
So is it fair to say that the goal that you have here in creating this senior uh residence is to enable people in the Muslim community presumably uh to be able to further access and participate
in the services religious etc community oriented in the existing ICC building. >> See that's true but I am open for all the community. I'm living this country. I cannot say nobody can come along they follow our rules. If I go for example if
somebody say I want to leave your facility and I would like to serve me a pork that's not going to happen because we have to made it clear what kind of facility we're running but having said that our we are welcome our doors open for everybody like I said before you
know our community or anybody believing they can be a benefit as long they follow the rules. Now let's talk about any kind of interest that you've had in this u facility. Now I assume that before you took the step to pursue this
uh development approval that you have investigated the viability of occupants for this facility. Is that fair to say? >> That's what encouraged me two things. One like I said my friend they are Pakistan they come and go. They stay for two months and they go back because they
can afford to live over here. So they ask me if you can do something like that and my beginning all things from me the fireman house from Bon. >> Okay. >> Excuse me. So does that mean the leases aren't going to be year leases? >> Excuse me.
>> The leases will not be one-year leases. People will get to have a two-month lease or whatever >> it I don't know. It depend who is going to manage the facility. I mean I cannot tell you today we're going to have a two month lease or one year lease or two month lease. If
somebody wants to live we see what we can accommodate. We already have a list near about 52 people. They sign up with us. We don't have 52 apartments. >> All right. So now let's talk about the age group that you've been uh that have
expressed interest in this. uh what type of age group have you experienced or have you investigated for interest in this facility? Mostly people who are retired you know they are um above 62 many of they don't have a study job so they are retired
early uh many are you know they they they simply has a business sold a business no interest so I figure you know uh 62 people at least I don't worry about the kids now if somebody lucky get a marry somebody have a kid that's up to
him but you know my my you know investigation told me uh you know that 62 is is mostly single people or husband and wife. >> Now let's talk about the use of any portion of this building or this addition by ICC. We know that there's
going to be an addition to the actual ICC building by having this vestibule in the back a drop off area and then likewise the um elevator. So >> you're talking about existing building. >> Existing building, but the addition of course. So if you could just put up on
the easel, the exhibit that Mr. Accardi brought with him tonight, the one on the floor. >> This one. >> Yes. Now on this exhibit that came in tonight is A5, there is proposed in addition to the rear of the ICC building. Correct. >> Oh, yeah. That's on there.
>> Yeah. So there's a vestibule for a drop off area and then there's an elevator. >> Yep. >> So Mr. Just for the record, just identify the document. Uh it's A5 that came in tonight. It was uh listed as um it was the car section, but it shows the
parking lot on there. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, it's the one that Mr. Aario was referring to. >> Correct. Yeah. It has the colored photos on there. >> So, let's talk about uh the access to the building presently. How do people access the building? Say like in a
clement weather. How how do you get in? >> Well, we have a three different way to get in the building. In we have a very beginning we enter in the building that's called door A. We have a a ramp over there so anybody can access in the building and once that building let's
say the heavy rain and we have a drop off from the entrance door they don't have to come all the way back they can drop over there and in the building they can desort to their apartment without any getting wet. As it relates to the building as it exists today, is there any covered uh entrance way in order to
keep people out of the elements as they're endeavoring to get into the building? >> No, we we have a ramp, but it's not covered. >> Okay. So, is it fair to say then you don't have any covered drop off area into >> No, except that new one were proposed on the drawing. >> Okay. That's proposed. >> Yeah. >> Now, let's talk about access uh to the
um main section of the building. Now, the first floor of the building is the uh is the classrooms. Is that fair to say? >> Yes. >> Okay. And then the second floor is where you have the prayer room, >> right? >> So is there an elevator between the two
floors as it exists today? >> No. >> So how would you be able to access um say like the prayer room if somebody was limited in their ability to to walk upstairs? If somebody came to the prayer hall and he decided to go to the
classroom, he has to come out, go around the building and enter in the right side of the building. >> Okay? So there's no interconnection between the first and second floor except for stairs. >> Now this proposed addition will add an elevator to the existing building.
>> Give them access. Everybody go anywhere in the both building they can go. >> Okay? And that's the whole idea when they can people can get from new building to the existing building then we have a more use of our banquet hall
because now we know we have big facility where they can sit and you know enjoy it. >> Okay. So is it fair to say that the addition that you're proposing to the existing building will give you covered drop off and then likewise uh elevator access to both floors? >> Yes, that's correct. Now, how does that
incorporate into the addition as far as access for the people to get from the addition into the IC? >> Well, I I'm just the this this this gave them access to even existing building which they don't
have it right now. >> Okay. Now, one of the biggest issues of course that we're attempting to address is the concern about sufficiency of parking. Now, uh can you tell us what other measures you have implemented in addition to going to two services to try
and address concerns of people parking on the public street or otherwise uh parking in places where they shouldn't park? >> You know, when I start this project, I did what my relig allow me to do it. I
spoke to my neighbor. My first conversation, my right-hand neighbor, Mr. occurred. I spoke to him. I told him that this is why I planning to do it. He didn't like my idea. He just told me that uh you think that time
I were proposing 29 unit. He said you think 29 unit make help your community. I said well it's not much but one drop makes a river. I have somebody have to start. And he has a complaint about me that you know kids play basketball on
11:00 during Ramadan. I said I'm glad you told me. Never happened after that. Then he has a concern that lady which is M Miss M uh Trolley what's her name? Yeah.
Mr. Aadi uh she complained to him that uh her our when we make a U-turn the traffic headlights hits uh her windows in bedroom and she get light. I said well uh I would love to sit with her and talk to her. Maybe we can build a fence
so make sure nobody can disturb. So I say I I will I like you to if you arrange a meeting with me with them we see what is the common concern how we can resolve the issue. That never happened. Other side I went to church and I got two people from the church and
I I told them I this is my plan to do this is my idea. You have any objection? And they said no not that they gave me in writing saying I can park anytime anywhere I want. I have an agreement over here with me
and this agreement allow me to park everything because of this parking they gave me hope and gave me an idea that I able to do it. It says in parliament number nine that both party agreed about this agreement and no amendment no
alternation can happen before without written both parties. However, first meeting the president of uh uh uh church came and they denounced they revoke our our agreement and they
said we have nothing to do. I was not ready for that. And by that time I was too far not come back. And since that I tried to address the issue to change
their timing, discourage my people which is not right thing to do. But I did because I don't want to see neighbors uh uh you know angry. Princeton they complain about parking. This illegal parking it's not illegal parking. Even
my people get mad at me. He said, "Why are you stopping? It's il not illegal to park. We have my son and myself over there going and help to people not block the driveway." And people complain that you don't have a authority to do so.
Okay. So now we have a guard, licensed person who take care of traffic, >> a guard, >> a guard. We pay them every week and he's a licensed and he take care of that one. We hire that guard to take care of that security guard. >> What does this person do? What what did you engage in?
>> He he do nothing. He just help few people cross the road. That's the border. But there's only six, seven cars. It just satisfy the neighbors that you know person is there. And since he's there, there is no more than maybe six, seven cars. Text my my traffic guy will
testify he was there. Uh and mostly we have a room in our parking lot. It's not that our parking lot is full, but you have to understand a person he has to go to work. He took his break. No matter how what parking I can ex I provide him,
he's still going to park over there because it's easy for him to get out and reach his destiny. I cannot make him come parking no matter even the park is empty. But that's the reality. We're doing it. I
try to bring people who are coming regularly. I request them and they come two three people in one car car pool. We're doing that very busy event. If it happen, we have a van, we had the bus, people can park in
the parking lot and we bring the people. We did twice. Our two major days Eid after Ramadan and and then we have a Raman 2 and a half month. That's our biggest day. We we expect more crowd. We have more crowd. We can't help it. But
in order to come into the parking, we tell the people you park in the parking lot. They park somewhere. We have a bus. Go bring the people and bring them back. I think I did what I can. >> Now, during my uh opening comments this
evening, I advised the board that you endeavored to purchase every property that was contiguous to ICC. Is that fair to say? >> Yes, fair. You have we we approached to everybody. Uh one person were interested. Uh the land we calculate comes only 3,000 scale. 30,000
>> 30,000 square feet and it it was nothing nothing doing for us. >> I had previously submitted to the board's consideration. I likewise sent a copy to Mr. Mills for his review an exhibit which I pre-marked as exhibit A6 dated it today which is my certification
together with the letters which I sent to all the adjoining property owners. Uh Mr. Mills was gracious enough to send me a letter back on behalf of his clients re, you know, basically politely rejecting the request. Uh, and then likewise, I noted in there that there was uh no response from the Methodist
church as to purchasing their premises. And then likewise, there was interest of uh only one party uh of selling basically 30,000 square feet of what is uh all wetlands and transition areas. So, it really didn't do us any good. And
uh I have a map pended to the exhibit that shows where that would be located. It would be rather unusually configurated. So I sent it to the board secretary. I have extra copies this evening. So I'd like to hand those up to the board just so you have uh you know some record I
>> does what is the relevance other than making a good faith effort to buy the land. Does that the fact that he could not buy it >> sway our decision in >> and that's up Mr. step is to argue to you, but >> Okay.
>> Yeah. I could tell you the the purpose of of attempting it one is the practical benefit. I mean, if we could have convinced the Methodist church to sell us their property, that would have helped. If we could have uh convinced the neighbor immediately to the north to
sell us his property would have done two things. One, it would have eliminated him potentially as being an objector because he would no longer uh be sitting next door. And in addition, we would have been able to use at least a portion of his property for some parking or
other uh accessory use. And the further you go down the line, if we would have been able to assemble multiple parcels um at least two, then we would have been able to provide some additional parking. So I believe it's important to demonstrate first that the applicant has
endeavored to acquire adjoining lands in order to provide for this additional parking. Also, there are variances with regard to the bulk standards uh as it relates to coverages and I believe that it's helpful that an applicant demonstrate that they attempted to purchase adjoining land in order to help
diminish the extent of the variance. Um and then likewise uh you know if we could have purchased this land I believe it would have been helpful uh to effectuate and satisfy one of the concerns of course that everybody's voiced and that's sufficiency of parking. But is there anything that
you're going to argue legally that says that because you tried that we now have to agree to, >> you know, variances because your neighbors said they don't want to sell. >> You know, it's funny. I I'll share this with you. Many towns, like today, I was
just reviewing the development application for Freeden Township. In Freeden Township, they actually have a form letter that you have to send to the neighbors that says, "I hereby offer to buy part of your property or all of your property or sell you my property uh in
extent uh to alleviate variances." And then uh it says at the end of the notice, if you refuse, then I'll let the board know that you're not interested. And why is that? Uh the purpose of submitting that uh inquiry to the neighbors is to demonstrate that the
applicant has endeavored to try and address the concern about the variance by expanding the land and that because they were unable to acquire adjoining land that that represents a practical difficulty justifying it as a C1 uh hardship as relates to the bulk standard. So
>> does Paripony have that? >> You know, it's interesting. Parcipony does not. Uh Lincoln Park does. Um, Jeff, uh, Jefferson Township I believe does, not every town. It kind of like flows from the case law associated with hardship variances and some towns have have made it easy for homeowners
presumably to send these requests out. We thought it was helpful. >> Asked the buy sell question. >> Oh, does it? >> I'm sorry. >> We generally have asked the buyell question when it's appropriate. >> Okay. >> I can't hear. I couldn't hear. We generally ask the buy sell question is
what they were just talking about is when it's appropriate in an application in front of the board. >> Okay. M could I ask you a question? What when was the start date of your second prayer service? >> What was the start?
>> Second is 7:30 evening. >> No, no, no. What was the date of your second? >> When did you start that? >> Friday, right? >> Yes. Uh, I believe we did uh >> time change. What the time changing? >> I thought it was in the summer like August.
>> No, we just did time change. >> November. >> November. >> Oh, in November. >> This past November. >> Yes. >> One more question. I want to just get back to the to when he said that, you know, some people could come over a month or two >> and stay. Is there anything in the
ordinance that says that different differentiates between an apartment complex to a long-term uh extended say residency like a hotel that says we'll rent you month by month or two month by two month
>> as opposed to a residential that normally >> it's more uh lengthy >> I don't know the answer to that >> state of energy allowed to have a one monthto-month lease >> I don't think so shortm term rental provision of the ordinance. Gary, you have to look at that one.
>> Okay. >> You signed that. >> Can I just I just want to clarify something. You said you went from one Friday service to two Friday services this past November. >> No, timing changed. My my service was
changed almost uh la last year maybe in before summer. >> Yeah. Summer time. So you're saying >> I changed the timing on the time change. Remember I changed the slot? >> No, I'm we're asking about when you went
from one service to two services. When was that? >> Last summer. >> 2025 summer. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> 2025. Is that >> any Can you get a little closer than summer? >> Beginning of summer, end of summer. >> Well, the reason we summer because
summer have a longer days. >> No, no, What I'm saying is did you make the change in the beginning of the summer or the end of the summer? >> July. >> July. Here's my secretary. >> Okay. Because testimony on July 30th said there were two meetings on Fridays.
So you couldn't have changed in July. If in on July 30th we had testimony that there were two meetings. >> Two meetings. >> Two sorry two services on Friday. >> Yeah. So it been changing before July then. >> Right. Right. It was changed before
July. >> Okay. Now, just a couple other questions on the worship. You you indicated that the um the worship hall is 38 by 47. >> Prayer hall. >> Prayer hall. Sorry. Which is about half
of that room that's separated by the accordion. >> Less than that. >> Sorry. >> Less than that. >> Well, okay. Okay. >> I'm not going to argue. >> Okay. >> Um >> I have a square footage written over there. >> Okay. I have I was on your website last year and I
have some screenshots during services where that accordion door is open and the room is full of worshippers. Can you tell me how often that happens? >> That twice a year. >> It's just like you know Eid we call Eid it is celebration of Ramadan. It is very
very holy and very big day in our religion. >> And when is that? >> It's going to happen after Ramadan right now. What month is that? >> It changes every year 10 days different like you follow. This is going to be I believe uh this year is going to be a
March 18 or 17 something like that. >> Okay. So that was Ramadan when you needed the full >> Raman is finishing on that day. >> Okay. >> And we're going to celebrate the Ramadan and that day will be that's called Eid Eid. Now you said that the chairs for
the people who are physically unable you've got 10 to 12 chairs. >> Yeah, something like that. >> Okay. Because prior testimony was 20. >> We have 20 but we don't use it is a storage space for us. We keep them over there but we never use more than four four chair to five chair prior.
>> Okay. >> Having a 20 chair doesn't mean 20 people go over there. >> Okay. Um >> you know we have a youth comes over here and the counseling happened on those chairs as well. It's a privacy nobody here what's going on and that's why keep
that's the chairs are >> okay the agreement that you had with United Methodist Church. >> Yes sir. >> Did you get a zoning permit for that? That's which is required by the or by the town. You need a zoning permit to make that arrangement. Um I don't know.
I just understand two two parties agree what they want to do and they sign off. I think sufficient for me. >> Well, the issue is if United Methodist didn't have the spare parking spaces to give you, then zoning would get involved. >> It's not spare part uh spare parking.
You have to understand what agreement says. Agreement says when your service which is specially Friday and we have nothing going on Friday. So you >> I understand the practicality of it. What I'm asking is did you get the did you get a zoning permit that's required
by the ordinance to do that? >> No. >> Okay. >> I I would point out Mr. Lmanowitz that originally when the application was filed the Methodist church was included in this application. So we had expanded the application to include the Methodist church their parking. So it would have
been considered by this board in conjunction with this site plan. But as you may recall, the president of the board of trustees for the church stood up at the mic and basically rescended that. >> Right. What I'm trying to what I'm trying to is what I'm trying to understand is was the agreement
zone compliant in the first place? >> Well, it would have been determined by this board. So the fact that the president of the board of trustees came here and rescended it, it never got that far. So to answer your question is it was submitted here for the consideration of this board and but eventually the entire thing was withdrawn when they re
rescended their agreement. >> Okay. Uh you said there's a guard on Preston. Is the guard just to cross people the street or to >> No, he watches he he his job is to make sure nobody's uh mailbox, nobody's uh
driveway block, nobody park wrong places and people don't walk in the middle of the road. And when was that arrangement made? >> Uh I think a month and a half. >> Month and a half ago. >> All right, that that's all the questions I have right now. Thank you.
>> I have a question. >> So do I. During the prayer service, the women are not in the same room as the men. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Where do the women pray? >> We don't have a many women. Maybe four,
five, they they put a rug wherever they feel comfortable. Whereas the men is watching, sometime they pray in the kitchen, some in the hallway, some downstairs. >> So there isn't a separate room. No. No. For the women to pray. No women as well. >> They can go they can go anywhere.
>> Excuse me. >> They can go anywhere in the >> where they are two three together where they're comfortable to play. Sometime they do in the classrooms. >> And what is the total number of women that you have found to be at your prayer services especially on Friday?
>> Friday maybe not more than >> I don't know first prayer maybe 2 three and six seven. I don't really count women. I don't go that area. I I I've got a couple questions too, I guess, if we're going to go that route. Um, so the concept is very admirable
with the fireman's home especially, but if you look at the fireman's home, we could talk about that. The size of the property there is conducive to doing what they're doing. >> That's why I'm not making that big. >> What's that? >> That's why I'm not m property. >> Oh, no. Even regardless of that, it's still it's still big for the property
you have now. So, you said um there's 111 spots we figured out earlier. The first prayer on Friday, there's 100 people. So even if they took their own car, it should be enough spots. And then the second one is 115 125. So that two would be close if even if everybody had
one car. So now we're going to go and we're going to put or try to put this big building onto that. And you made the point of you want to be good to your faith, which is admirable, but your neighbors as well. So, making it more of
an issue by adding all that extra residents um seems to me that it's just going to worsen the problem, which we've all discussed before. And then one other thing you mentioned, you said you had 52 people on the list already for for to
live there. So, previously we were told that it would be open to everyone um and anybody could live in there. But now if you you know it was open to somebody if there's 52 people on a list. >> First of all first of all first question is this that you asking I'm adding
another 28 apartments. What going to happen those people? My understanding people I spoke they rather like to live here and have no car. >> So I know I cannot guarantee you that but I'm encouraging people who have no car. Like I said you know it's
expensive. They don't have to go nowhere. And >> I am not participate that everybody going to have a car. That's me. Second answer your question is this. You know that uh what was the second question? >> 52 people.
>> There's 52 people on the list and you have 28. >> 50 people out of 50 people that was three years ago. So they are waiting for me anymore. So when times come we have a open list for everybody. Whoever comes sign it and then we have to a merit
basis. >> Okay. Well, >> not mentioning not not mentioning the six apartment are or go for low income automatically. This is not I have a control on it. >> All right. Well, the way you presented it was you had 52 people on a list currently. That's the way I took it. So,
I guess I misheard. Are are you are you >> no my point was when I mentioned 52 I just demand the people was looking to have that kind of facility when I ran this idea to the
center not that 52 people particle going to get the apartment I don't know they around because I delay the project three years now >> okay >> I'm just going based on what you stated >> so who's going to be answering questions
about if and how the co-units is that going to be somebody do you have co-units? >> Well, we have a planner that will address that specifically, but Mr. um Kokar can address this now. He was not finished with his testimony. It started out with with the board engineer asking
questions and then it kind of kept going. I didn't want to interrupt, but we do have a few more questions for him. So, uh Mr. Kokar, before we get into the COA issues, there is a couple more questions I had with regard to the senior component. Now, you had mentioned
just now in your testimony that at least from what you've examined, many of the people that you're proposing or that are interested, I should say, in leasing these units uh don't drive. Now, what accommodations will you make on behalf
of ICC or ICC make in order to provide uh services for transportation for residents? What do you have in mind? >> You know, uh issue comes over here that you know, people going to stuck in the uh in the apartment. You know,
there is always substitute how you address the problem and there's not every question have answer but of of course on your best ability you can address the
issue before it get too late. We are provide we have a we have a van which is carry 16 passenger 18 passenger which we intend to utilize which we still using it and uh crowd area when get too many
people we we bring the people to the center we are offering to take those people for the shopping for the sight scene if they're willing to go somewhere and in case of situation where we have Friday prayer going on and everything
has a car up in there and person has to go somewhere. We have a responsibility to provide accommodation that person he or she may be not able to drive their own car but there's no way they can sit over here can go anywhere even
somebody's praying and somebody's not praying that time that's why we are too congrent if I am praying my first prayer that two three people from my volunteer they are wandering around and walking around make sure to address the issue when their turns come then we add three
four people also sitting and address the issue if something happen. So that's the solution we have find those people who are living with us. >> Now who would provide the van? Who would pay for the van? And how
>> van is a property of IBSA and we have a CDL driver who's going to drive this car. >> All right. And and would there be any charge to the residents for this service? >> No. That's only strictly for the people who live in this and not public transportation. Okay. So, you would make
that available for all of the residents in conjunction with their occupancy. Now, let's talk about the occupancy because then we're going to go into the COA aspect of these units. Could you put the uh plan back, the one that had the um the units? >> The residents. The residents.
>> Hey, do you want to come lend us a hand on the architectural for the units? Yeah, that'll produce >> the residential units. >> That's great. There you go. >> All right. Now, in total, you're
providing for 28 of these one-bedroom apartments, >> right? of which uh you're required to provide six of those to be deed restricted for uh persons of low moderate income status so that the township can get credit for that. Now
the regulations will require that you engage the services of an entity that would market these on the open market and then presumably there would be a lottery after persons were qualified. Do you understand that as part of that requirement there may be people that I'll say quote unquote win the lottery
that uh would not be of your faith but that would want to take up occupancy here and how can you address the concern as far as people being able to uh rent those units? >> Well, I understand that like I said, you know, my door is open for everybody. Uh
we have a rule and regulation describe very clearly our lease as are willing to you know respect our lease. So I have no problem. They can live with us. >> Okay. >> But you understand you wouldn't be able to handpick those people. That would be done by lottery. >> By lottery. >> And perhaps somewhere along the line,
the township would then on on releasing would have their own list and then be able to designate it potential tenants. >> That's right. >> Now, this is all for rental, correct? It's there's no for sale units. >> Nothing for sale. >> So, let's talk about the uh the market that you're looking to uh attract for
these units. Now noting that the units are some uh 722 square ft. Can you tell us while it may not be binding but what type of rents are you anticipating charging for these units? >> Ongoing rent I I have a rental unit in
Boom and Boom and Pipney is two different entities. They can compare each other. So looking my existing rental uh rent ro from Bon I think average rent will be a $2,000 providing meal and everything that's average but
again don't hold me responsible that somebody that this date you said 2,000 now you're charging $2100 you asked me question I'm giving them my best guess >> okay so is it fair to say then that one could anticipate these are not going to be rented for $4,000 a piece considering they're
>> nobody going to live 4,000 I think the community I'm focusing the list I have I'm lucky they gave me $2,000. >> Okay. Now, is that something that you believe would be a number that somebody in your community or just generally in Paripony would be able to afford based
upon uh you know what people earn in retirement? >> My service shows people I ask you know they are comfortable with this rent. Now, is it fair to say that the rental that you just described and the people that you would anticipate uh to rent
these units was a motivating factor for the size of the unit and the accommodations that you're providing? >> I guess so. They're aware of what I'm doing. >> So, in other words, you designed these units to be quote unquote affordable despite the fact that they're not all designated as affordable units.
>> That's true. >> Okay. Now, let's uh take a look at that uh the u parking exhibit if you don't mind. If you can just bring that up. >> Now, we have a certain number of spaces that are located under the building that
will be reserved uh presumably for people that live in the building. Is that your understanding? Or do you have other plans in mind? >> Well, given the nature of this uh circumstances I'm living, that's the only option I have. >> Okay. So is it fair to say then that the
residents whoever has a car would have I would say first option to park under the building to have covered parking? >> That's true. It's going to be designated parking and they be pretty much aware of what what we expecting from them and
what they expecting from us. >> Now you were here this evening during the testimony Mr. Cardi regarding the lifts and uh the ability to provide for another 22 on-site parking spaces. And I realize there's some technical uh information that's requested, but just
generally speaking, generally speaking, of these 22 spaces, would you be agreeable to require that these spaces be reserved for the unit uh residents? In other words, for people that are renting these units? Well, first of all, these units, these these uh stackers
will be all the time opposition empty no read no need to be store the car over there because there's enough parking downstairs even the resident in the guys who going to come for prayer. I just told you that give and take not more
than 10 15 people's come and that's not more than 10 car one given times come. Now before you go any further, I want to ask on that because that's very important. >> Now you had indicated previously regarding your prayer services during the week that you would have anywhere
between 10 maybe 15 people at any given time. >> Now apart from these Friday afternoon services, can you tell us the availability of on-site parking at your facility as it exists today? >> This is alltime availability. We can accommodate today at this time near
about 150 people, 120 people. >> Okay. So is it fair to say that apart from Friday afternoons this parking lot is say 90% empty. >> It's only we have the parking lot full
3hour every week Friday that's it. >> So let's talk about that window of 3 hours. When does that 3 hours start and when does the 3 hours end? We start first prayer 12 12:30 and 12:15 people start coming
and then it's finish 1:00 and 1:10 everybody's gone the next prayer >> so before you go so it's a half hour yeah >> for the first prayer and by 10 minutes later everybody's gone now what do you do as far as being the administrator of
this facility to help let's just say expedite these people to leave the facility. Are they asked to leave or is it what do you do in order to make sure that the >> We don't do they leave voluntarily. They nobody has a reason. Nobody has the time to stay over here. Matter of fact, you
know, it's amazing. Uh our service start 12 uh30 and reality realistically nobody mostly people only 25% people
come 75% people comes quarter to 1 12:45 12:50 that's people start coming 10 minutes they spend time with imam and 5 minutes for the prayers, 50 minutes and they run
and Quran said very clearly in our it describes when Friday prayer call run to the mosque and minute prayer finish I Allah God order us go and find
your risk mean go to work run for the work it is described clear and people follow the same rule. So they are gone. I don't have to tell them to leave. They leave. The only delay it takes when they exit on the south. If somebody's coming, they have
to wait in order to get out. But that's about it. >> So let's talk about the second prayer service in the afternoon on Fridays. When does that start? >> Second start uh 1:30. And 1:30 you can have a 10% people because no these people coming from
lunch. So they come 140 or 1:30 start 140 1:45 and then prayer finish 2:00. So and then again 10 minutes everybody's
gone. >> Okay. Okay. So, is it fair to say then by say 2:15 in the afternoon >> and I realize the time fluctuates depending on the time of year that >> primarily the facility is empty? >> That's the real thing.
>> Okay. So now we have this window of time when you have this demand. Now you had mentioned that you engage the services of a I'll say a security guard and yet even though you may have parking on site people are still parking on Preston. I think president people go before than
the people come from the sparking because they have to go to run they have to go to work and they run faster than everybody. All right. So now let's talk about your anticipated uh use of this uh lift parking and how would you anticipate
that the residents would be able to use these spaces and then be able to uh uh let's just say enable that vehicle to be elevated and then likewise make that space available. So why don't you tell us what you have in mind? See, I I own the rental property long before I start
this project and there are certain rules or regulation you have to tell your tenants and they obey it. Like bundai I said it's your responsibility to clean the sidewalk and they do because it said in the lease they can't say oh cannot do that no matter what that responsibility
there certain rule you cannot leave the recycling over there if you do you pay charges so they take care the recycling same same scenario same principle apply on this method because you tell your tenant look you're going to rent this apartment this rent there's our
condition you cannot do this you cannot be drinking drinking in this institution. You cannot be smoking this this area. You cannot do party over here and same token in every Friday 2 hour
your car will be up on the air. However, if you want to go somewhere you you can park on the site. If not be up there any emergency you call me. I have a guy in the car. He take you where I want to go. So only half an hour uh sorry 3 hours
every Friday you have to understand and then 12 let's say the prayer start 12:30 12:00 our job is to make all those car we agreed upon signed parking lot has up in the air while they are up in the air
anybody can go downstairs park underneath park and and pray and go home when the prayer is done we can go lower it down and everybody it doesn't matter it takes half an are coming down and up because we have enough time and enough understanding that they understanding what to get into it.
>> All right. So, is it fair to say then it would be somebody that's in uh authority or somebody that's associated with ICC in conjunction with the operator of the uh rental facility that would >> assure that these vehicles were elevated
prior to the start of this Friday prayer? >> Absolutely. We have a right now we have a security guard he take care the president road but who take care the parking our volunteer their job they come early they make sure everybody park
right everybody they have to fill certain spot before they start parking everywhere so we have a discipline we have a rule the regulation which you implements and it works >> now one of the board members had raised the concern that you would it would necessitate you having a key for these
automobiles would that be something that you would implement as well to make sure that you had access >> if the person been taking care his need that he has emergency has to go visit hospital or whatever we are providing why he needed why why we have to give him key why we have to his key he had
key because his he knows half and 3 hours he cannot bring his car down it been told it's no surprise there's no no like un un without telling him doing something he's pretty much aware of Now there was also concern voiced that there
would be children running around the parking lot or climbing on top of these devices and it potentially could cause trouble. >> Well, you know, it's funny people have a lot of concern. You know, we have a lot of trees and I see children on the tree.
I can't cut the tree because DPA don't let me touch the tree and kids are up there. So, who responsible with those kids up on the air? It's my job to chase them. Same token over here we have a security guys walking and say guys come down you're not supposed to climb the
tree and same scenario goes over the guy don't touch it go inside why you doing outside like I said my neighbor has a complaint hey 11:00 you're playing a basketball happen once happen never because make sure nobody in the parking lot playing with a basketball no neighbor going disturbed same thing I
have a person on the parking lot at night time especially Ramadan is the time when kids go outside we Make sure they don't fool anything. They don't go anywhere. They stay in the masjid or go home. They cannot allow to move around. It's not playground. Parking lot is not
playground. Everybody's aware of even today. No kid go play over there. >> Okay. I don't have anything further Mr. Kakar at this time. So we can open them to questions to the board and the public. >> Board members. >> Yeah. I have some questions about the
color. So, and I don't know the answer, but >> So, they're all onebedroom units. >> It's 20% for COA. >> Sorry. >> Yes. >> Why don't they need to have two and threebedroom units available, too? Is that because they have none in the building?
>> Isn't there silos? >> The the rule is when you have age restricted h restricted housing, I believe you have to have some two bedrooms, but they don't have to have three. >> Is your planner going to deal with that? Yes, our planner is >> So, he'll have an answer to that. >> She'll answer the question.
>> Okay. So, then my next question is I thought the gentleman said something about in his facility in Bhutin that he could have something in the lease that says no alcohol. Is did you say that? I'm sorry. >> No, I saying this facility we can put in the lease certain rules and regulation
they have to follow. >> No. No. And my my lease says in Bon no smoking. >> Okay. >> And nobody smokes. >> Okay. But what about what about like things like um especially for a um the
COA units? Are people allowed to bring pork into the into a an apartment? >> Excuse me. >> Is somebody who's living in one of the units, are they allowed to bring pork or alcohol? >> You want to rent this apartment? >> Yes. >> When you p I give you a lease, then you
see what is the rules or regulation? >> The state allows that. >> I'm sorry. >> The state law. So CO you could answer me that. >> No, I answer your question because what Kova allow what state of New Jersey allow me to do I put on the lease.
>> I I don't I don't actually know the answer to that. If the religion overshadows the COA, I don't know the answer. >> Well, neither do I. I don't have a COA units. >> But >> you haven't approved me yet and I have no COA units. >> I know, but you're applying. So I'm just curious. >> I'm applying. Like I said, there's a
rural regulation state of New Jersey we have to follow. Yes, >> like I said, Mr. Shepher has made very clear there's a lottery system is not my control, >> right? >> It comes from the state or the town, right? >> And same who's going to do a lottery system then giving me a rules or
regulation what I can't or can I do not you know, I don't know. You don't know and I don't know. >> No, no. I just want to know the I would like to know the answer. >> You want to know answer because we both don't know the answer. >> Well, that's why I'm asking that. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I think you're asking me question. No, no, general. I don't
know the answer. You might >> I'm going to rephrase your question. >> Sure. >> Is it your intent to limit the lease? >> Is it your desire to have provisions in the lease that would be consistent with the Muslim?
>> I have to consult to a legal opinion before I answer your question. I am not aware what I can't but I can do it. So, is it your testimony that you do not intend to have any provisions in your
lease that would be inconsistent with what's required by New Jersey law? >> I have to follow New Jersey law. That's correct. >> So, if New Jersey law would prohibit you from having any provisions in your lease restricting, >> I have to follow it. >> Okay.
>> New Jersey law is asking me to provide a low incomes. Correct. >> Okay. So, >> I have to follow it. So your testimony is that none of your lease provisions are going to violate any New Jersey statuto I can't >> or any federal housing regulations. >> Correct. I can't.
>> Okay. >> So So you understand the core rule primarily designed around uh rent costs verse or in relationship to income levels. It doesn't really get into the
philos philosophy or religion of those tenants. I know. >> So, you're going to have age restricted small units. Your planner will testify in terms of what the requirements are and you have to live by it. Simple as
that. >> That's a reality. >> I just have a question. And first, I apologize for jumping in earlier when I was wasn't quite my turn. >> All right. >> Um I just want to verify um going back to the Friday the two Friday services. What is your what is
your typical and I'm not talking during holiday. What is your typical um count of people for the first Friday and second Friday service? >> I just mentioned Friday >> and I I didn't I didn't I was writing I didn't >> almost f Friday is 100 plus minus 10.
>> Uh Friday first one >> so Friday's 100 plus and again I know it's plus or minus >> and the second one's 150 plus minus 10. >> Okay. And you're aware that prior testimony said that the first was between 150 and 180 and the second was
between 80 and 100. >> It depends the time of the day you're talking about in these days. >> I'm talking about I'm talking about the two Friday service. >> I it changes every every time of the year. I mean right now we have this count. >> Okay. I'm just I'm just going by testimony because we're going to get
into parking and I'm trying to understand how many people are involved. Sir there's no way I can give you exact number that's what you're looking for because like I said before we have a 200 people 250 people since I change the
time now we have a 100 to 150 people the question is this this going to change as times goes by but having said that I also mentioned I am expecting less crowd because there's two new mosques open one is the Livingston and one is going to be
close to milestone town once have these two pe those two towns are not going to come in my masid. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And that helped me also reduce the because you have two mosque in Pipney beside me.
>> All right. Thank you. >> We have any other questions from the board? >> Just hold on a second, sir. Um we're going to do the same thing we did the last time. We're going to let Mr. Mills go first. >> Thank you, Mr. Johnson and members of
the board. Mr. Kokar, you mentioned that uh the Islamic Burial Service has a a trading as known as the Islamic Community Cultural Center. >> Yes. DBA,
>> pardon me, DBA. >> Yes. Doing business as IC. Islamic community. >> IC then is not a separate entity. >> No, >> it's an alter ego for the burial service. >> Yes, sir. >> And the
IC then actually operates the mosque. Is that correct? >> Uh sort of not 100%. >> What is the governance of the mosque? How does it how does it function? In what capacity?
>> Practically speaking, I mean >> practically speaking, >> are there staff? >> No, >> there's no staff. There's no get paid person. There's no there's a volunteer including myself. We have a imam. He
doesn't charge anything regular prayer. He will come pray in time which is listed our web and everybody knows certain prayer going to be certain time whoever come pray and go home. >> It is not the mosque is not staffed 24
hours a day. >> Mosque is not open 24 hours a day. Is there a director of sorts? I mean, anyone in charge? >> I am the in charge over there. >> Are you also in do you have a similar facility in Bhutin?
>> Uh, no. I live in Bhuton. I belongs to Islamic center in Bhuton, but not anymore. >> I'm sorry. Say that. >> I used to run the I used to be part of Islamic Center of Bontton. Not anymore.
>> Why is that? because I'm busy here. >> Then your sole occupation is the operation of the ICC. I >> Yes, sir. >> The Islamic Burial Service you indicated as a 501c3. >> That's true.
>> Which makes it charitable, >> right, sir? >> And it is operated by a board of trustees. >> Yes. >> You said five. >> Yes. >> You are one. >> I'm the president. I'm the one. Who are the others? >> Other is to my son. Two other guys.
>> Two your two of your sons. >> Two my son and two other guys. Four of the other people. >> Is the burial service a New Jersey corporation? >> Yes. The IBS, the Islamic Burial Service
needs, like any organization, funding to operate. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> What is the source of the funding for the burial service? >> We own the graves. Islamic Barrier Service Association owns the grave. When they sell the grave,
their revenue helps to run the ICC. Where did the money come from for the IBS to purchase the graves? >> I paid my personal money 2011 $1.2 million. >> And where did that come from? I'm sorry. >> I am the one resource to bought those
pray on my personal money. >> You basically advanced $2 million to the IBS. >> $1.2 million. >> 1.2 I'm sorry. Okay. And with that, the IBS purchased graves in >> almost 1,000 2,000 graves.
>> Three or four different cemeteries, I think. >> Right. >> In your religion, are the bodies buried uh in human form or are they cremated? >> Buried. No cremation.
In the administration of the burial rights, what if any role does the IBS perform? >> IBS is just a coordinator between the family of deceased and the cemetery and
the funeral director. >> You indicated that a Yes, you did. You indicated a funeral director was involved. Is it the same funeral? >> We just coordinate. We just arrange all the process to the person the family do
not have to call three different people they call only me IBSA and IPSA make all arrangement >> yes you need a declaration of death as well correct >> I don't need it family need it and funeral director have to produce
>> and who performs that aspect of it >> funeral director license of state of New Jersey >> that has to be performed by a medical doctor does it Huh? >> Medical doctor just signed the death certificate. He does not do anything. Matter of fact, it we have to chase
them. >> Does the uh IBF derive any income in the performance of these services that you talked about? >> No. Except selling the grave. Right. Now, there was some testimony earlier
from your son when questions came up regarding the body washing and I I know you indicated some sensitivity in that regard, but when the body washing was occurring, was there a
charge preferred for that service? >> No. It was performed gratuitously by the >> This is all done everything Islamic standard voluntary free of charge. Even offering a prayer is no charge for that.
>> So the body washing is gratuitous. >> Was we don't do anymore. >> Is that service taken over by another entity? >> Funeral director does that. >> So the funeral director must be someone schooled in the religion of Islam. Is
that correct? >> They are mostly all the Muslims. >> All of them are >> all the funeral director which use our uh services. They're all Muslim. They're pretty much aware what we need. >> How is the and I know this is not
central to the issue before this board, but how is the pricing for the graves structured? >> It's written on our web. You can go look at it. wwsenj.org. >> I could do that but I don't have a laptop. >> Well, I don't have a remember all the prices.
>> You don't recall? >> I have million things to do. I don't want to say tomorrow you can say you said this but it's that recently that you did. How much did you sell? Is it your testimony then that the
burial washing is permanent? Body washing, excuse me, is permanently terminated. >> Like I said, Mary made it very clear. I'm under investigative attorney general of state of New Jersey. I cannot make any comments on that one.
>> All right. Well, let's say the the reason I ask is because I believe that that use of the property would constitute an entirely new and separate, in other words, a third use. You've got the mosque use, the proposed residential use, and I believe the body washing
constituted a third use requiring yet another variance. My opinion, if you are cleared on this investigation, would it be your intention to reinstitute the body washing? I have to follow the pipney town ordinance before I do that.
>> I'm not sure I understand what that answer means. >> Anything I do, I have to go through this prop proper procedure and the procedure I have to go to a town of procia see what they let me do or not. >> Well, in a perfect world would you re would it be your intention to reinitiate
the body washing? My perfect word is I I I like to do every son take care of their own father and every daughter take care of their mother. >> You have to understand you know we are the Muslim and you not wear much you are
not very much aware what we allow to do what we should do. So it is very hard for to understand what is our religion ask us to do it >> at the time you the service was being performed I take it you did not have you
meaning the IBF did not have a zoning approval for that did they >> don't precip doesn't have any zoning restriction on that The prop the >> the real property on South Beverwick Road is owned by the IBF. >> Correct. >> Okay.
>> Does IBF own any other real property? >> Yes. where >> is a it is a part of application. You have to know those things. >> Well, I asked because I would like to know why you couldn't site this residential proposal on other property
owned by the IBF. >> But I think that right now we talking about certain particular uh uh property. Let's stick to this property. >> Tell them why you want this property. >> Why you want the residences here on this property?
asking why this property >> this property if you asking why I building the building on this property this has more room and like I said very made it clear that's the only property provide people while they living and worship together they have access each
other without worry about driving and worry about rain or snow >> if you would be so kind as to enlight me as to where the other property is then we could judge the proximity of the two >> well other property at 920 South Bay Road which across the street.
>> And what is what is situated if anything on that property? >> A house single family house >> rented? >> No. >> Empty. >> Yes. We we leave that that house because
during Ramadan we have a lot of scholars come over here for giving a lecture at night. We need to provide them accommodation. So providing them accommodation the hotel paying the hotel and then car and driving back and forth providing a food
that's a very practical uh place we have for them they can live we can provide food they can just walk no excuse I got stuck in the traffic I can make it >> under questioning by Mr. Sheepus, you attempted to describe how the
residential facility would relate to the operation of the mosque. And really what I'm hearing is it that it it doesn't relate to the operation of the mosque, but if it were if it were to be permitted by the board, the mosque would
service those residents. Is that correct? It's really the reverse. mass res >> if you are try to uh understand that that residence
uh buildings what role they going to play in the mosque if that's your question and I made it very clear that uh these this facility have a chance people can come in the
banquet hall and mosque and participate in the prayers and and also sitting with the people in the banquet hall and have a gathering because I don't have a big room in the new building. >> It's not really the form of a question, but I'll say it anyway. It seems to me
that what you've described is a relationship where the mosque would support these 28 residential units and not >> mark let me finish and those and those units are not in fact supportive of the mosque
>> where you understand I asked told you that mosque is going to support the building >> right the mosque would be supportive of these 28 residences No, not that sense which you're saying economically or just
physically. I don't understand your question. >> All right. Well, we'll move on. I'll go over it with your planner. You are a aware obviously of the overflow parking problems caused on the
neighborhood streets on the Friday occasions of the Friday services. That's right. Is that correct? neighborhood, >> pardon me, >> neighborhood street has illegal parking. We're not doing anything illegal. >> I didn't say you were. I just simply said you're aware of the problem with
the overhead parking on the neighborhood. >> Well, we addressed the issue. We have only seven cars over there this Friday. Now you told us a moment ago that the second Friday service based on the division between the Arabic service and
the English service, the second service, the more populous one, only generates 150 people. Is that correct? >> 150 people. That's correct. >> Yes. But you also said in that same breath that the parking lot was full. >> Yeah.
>> So how does it come to be that 100 >> What make you think 150 people driving 150 cars? I also said that many people do a car pool. >> So each each parishioner if you will each >> I think 100 people if fair to say 100
car 110 cars >> but enough to fill the lot and cause other other members of the congregation to seek parking. >> Even the lot is not full. People still park the prison because they're convenient and that's illegal parking. I cannot tell them to not park.
>> I understand that. Well, then you shouldn't be asking me this question. >> It has been related to you, has it not? That there the parking has caused problems for the res. >> With all due respect, we're talking about half an hour uh 1 hour, maybe half an hour on the prison street
>> every Friday. >> But nevertheless, issues >> and we provide a security guard. He take care. No. >> Have you been made aware of any of these parishioners cars being ticketed for obstructing fire hydrants or things of that nature? >> Well, ask Tone. They're the one who give
the ticket. I don't. >> Uh-huh. >> If you drive If you drive more than over speed, you get a ticket, right? If you do wrong parking, you should get a ticket. >> Right. But at what in >> But you don't blame me. Somebody parked.
>> What level of inconvenience to the people that are visited with this? Correct. >> In 1986, I drove this south road. There was hardly any car. Today 5:00, you can't cross a car because cars coming. Population increase. How you address
that issue? >> Are you aware of any other mosques that have residential facilities? >> No sir, I don't. >> Coexistent with them. Excuse me. >> Are you aware of any other mosques that have residential facilities coexistent
with them? >> I said I don't. >> Okay. You also said earlier that uh this mo this residential facility would be supportive because it would have a vestibule where people could get out of their cars and go into the mosque. Is
that correct? >> People don't get from the car and go to the mosque. That's what I said. >> I don't know. I'm asking you forgot. So I just said the residents don't have to drive in order to prayer. They can just go from this building have access to go
to a prayer hall and pray. >> Meaning from the classroom in the prayer hall. >> No no no no no no no. Classroom has nothing to do. The prayer hall is connecting to the first floor of the new building. >> Correct. So they can go from first floor
to walk to the prayer hall not going to the classrooms >> by elevator. Correct. >> Elevator coming from third floor to second floor. Once the second floor they can walk or they can use a wheelchair one way or another. Therefore, we can conclude that the
residential facility is not critical to the operation of the mosque, particularly since your first version of the plans showed the residential facility as entirely detached from the mosque. Correct. >> Your interpretation is it's attached.
>> The current plan shows it attached. The prior plan did not. >> Well, like I said, you know, as we go go along, we try to address the issue of the people and the neighbor. That's why we came in this idea that reduce the one
apartment 29 to 28 reduce one complete floor instead of four three stories two story now I'm sorry I just need a minute here the 722 foot apartments will be rented at
$2,000 a month. Is that right? >> You indicate the rent will be $2,000 a month. >> 2,000 approximately of the rental. >> Is that sort of a blended rate including the affordable the six affordable units?
I am no control on the six for uh apartments because that's a low income. That's dictated by the town and the state. >> So at least 22 apartments will be at $2,000 a month and the affordables may be at something less.
>> Yes. Right. Since the IBF had no income prior to this other than from the sale of the grave sites, what plans do you have, >> speaking in from your position as trustee of the IBF to do with this this income?
>> What I'm going to do with this income? >> Yes. >> I'm going to pay my loan borrow to build this building. >> Pay your loan back. >> Yeah. to borrow this borrow money to which I borrow money to build this big bill this building to pay back.
>> I see. Okay. >> Do any of the trustees draw a salary? >> Nobody draw a salary. >> Okay. And the operational expenses such as legal, accountant, uh and that sort of thing are >> all the utilities everything paid by
IBS. Yes, but it it is those expenses are covered by the sale of the grave sites. >> Yes. >> How many grave sites do you own IBF? >> Maybe I still have a thousand.
>> I'm not sure but you know you asked me question I was not ready for that answer. >> Right. In addition to the religious services, I think we heard previous testimony, this being the fourth hearing, that events
are held at the facility, did we not? >> Yes. >> Those would be, for example, weddings, >> right? >> Birthdays, >> right? >> That sort of thing. On the occasion of those events, is the uh parking lot overfilled also? We never have more than
100 people this event because we cannot accommodate the in in in our uh backward hall. >> Right. And I understand that you anecdotally believe that of these 28 apartments not everyone will have a car. But
>> they do have the right to have a car. And if they did have a car and you had either the second Friday services or the uh a large event, would that not put increased pressure for neighborhood parking offsite?
>> No, because we do not schedule our event on the Friday prayer or Fridays. I'm simply asking you sir that if you had let's say the second Friday service and now added the burden my word of the
28 units and those owners or a good portion of them had automobiles would that not worsen what I characterize as the parking problem >> like I said that it's if if the people living residents know that that half an
hour or 1 hour what we agreed upon the cars in the And we have a second prayer. After prayer, they are they don't have to park upstairs. They come down on the floor on the ground. >> You stated that and I I think you stated rather that you have a crossing guard.
>> Yes. >> Right. And what function does that person perform? >> He makes sure nobody's blocked, nobody's mailboxed, nobody's driver is blocked, people parking properly, and when they like to cross, he is make sure he's
there. How many days a week is that person performing this service? >> He only comes Fridays. >> Excuse me again. You have no personal experience with these uh elevated parking spots, do you?
>> No. >> The only thing you know about them or how they are? >> I know that I my my background as a mechanical engineer. I know how they works. >> You know how they work? >> Yeah. >> But your experience with them regarding your application here is only based upon what the architect told you. Is that correct?
>> Yes. Correct. And you are aware that your property is situated in one of the most sensitive zones in the township of >> I do. I think that's all I have. Thank you. If I can just sneak in a clarification
on the birthday wedding thing. What was the the size >> of the gatherings for the >> first of all those event you ask? We not schedule on the Fridays. They're mostly evening and we give them a window where
we know no prayer is be interrupted and the gathering we don't not go more than maximum maximum 100 people. >> Okay. You're aware that your website said 250 seats in the bank. >> We say 250 people but we realize we cannot accommodate. We don't do that.
>> That's experience. >> All right. Thank you. >> There's something is written over there then reality which I'm telling you because 200 people is a is a hazard for you realize and we don't do that. Web is not fixed. That's a different story.
>> Okay. Because again that's just what was advertised on the website. >> That's fine. update your website. >> Yes, we'll do that. You see a web guy, you're listening me. You know, my son does that anymore. >> There you go.
>> Doesn't matter. Any more questions? >> I'm done. Thank you, >> sir. You have a question of this witness on the testimony that he's given this evening? >> Good evening. My name is Joseo. I live at 10 Trueville Drive. It's c a r o. I've lived in the same neighborhood my
whole life which is adjacent to uh the property in question tonight. Thank you zoning board for your time and thank you Mr. uh Kokahar for your testimony. My question is a very practical one um operational in nature and probably very
timely and apologies if it's been asked already. Um my question is about snow removal. Considering your site's constraints, do you have any plans for how you handle snow removal? If we were to get a 15-inch storm, uh where would you put all that snow? What would you do with the cars that are on site? How
would you move them? And then what would you do if the next weekend another storm came with more snow? Where would you put that snow? >> This is a mother nature act. We can't predict how we address the issue. We go as we along. Previously snow we have I
personally myself clean everything. I have a truck which I do myself and we push all the snow on the back and if it happen again if we have room we can do that. If not we pile it up that like everybody does that
>> and you'll be adding more space to the lot. So you're even constrained more just >> believe it or not snow not lot people have want to come for pray. Another question came to mind um based on something I heard by Mr. Taj uh tonight.
I heard testimony where you mentioned that anyone is able to live in your facility regardless of faith and then you said as long as they follow the rules presuming you were referring to the conversation earlier about eating pork. Then you said I'll follow whatever
the state demands to the board in response to one of their questions. This seems conflicted. How do you resolve that? >> The resolving I give you an example. I don't eat pork. People do eat pork. We have a problem, right? But there's also
rules. I cannot discriminate anybody. We live together. >> You stated you wanted to discriminate against people though. You said as long as they follow the rules, they can live in my units. >> Same thing. >> Then you changed your tune. So you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. >> Well, you can understand the way you
like to understand, sir. Could you just please identify yourself again, sir? Uh Nicholas uh Hamac uh you you made a statement uh you said New
Jersey is asking me in reference to uh the affordable housing what what law are you referring to? >> Go what?
Is it a nonprofit house of warships job to provide affordable housing in under the law in the state of New Jersey? >> I was told I don't know. >> It's not.
>> Maybe not. >> When did you apply? When did you this permit or your application for this development proposal? What date is is on that uh
proposal? >> I believe it's 22 >> 22 in April 2021. >> Maybe you're right. Piponyany adopted
the Highlands uh exemption ordinance. It's in chapter 205. As a nonprofit, you are in entitled to
uh an exemption but for nonresidential that means dwellings for that don't include residents. Is there a question for this witness? >> How does he get the uh there's no law of
New Jersey. What exemption gave him the right to ask for residential housing? First, >> do you understand that question, sir? Can you answer that question? Is this is your time to ask questions of this witness? >> That's what I'm
>> Can you repeat your question one more time, sir? What if your date uh is after when Pipony adopted the Highlands exemption ordinance?
You are a nonprofit house of warship. The exemption specifically for for your designation is exemption number six. Exemption number six specifies
for nonresidential. So, how can you justify yourself in in a recreation, conservation, wildlife zone to apply for affordable
housing as a religious house of worship? >> You finish your question? >> Yes. >> Answer is this that the unit I'm building, they are not nonprofit. I'm going to pay a tax on it. >> You are a nonprofit.
>> I am a nonprofit. The project is non not profit. >> It's not if you're a nonprofit, you have to apply. Your exemption is for nonresidential. >> Sir, you asked me question and answer
you. No, I'm sorry if you can't like my answer, but I gave you answer very clearly. >> Uh, this is from your website. IC vision is to be a model of the American Muslim community in which Allah
is pleased. Does your community include nature, soil, water, and the planet's remaining biodiversity and respect for local neighborhood
character? >> Whatever you told, that's why state of New Jersey has a department DPA. They are the one who dictate what you can't what you can't do it. So they're the very first we went over there and asked their permission. So apparently if they
don't have a concern I'm okay with that. I'm sorry but they this answer not going to satisfy. My question to you was, does your community respect
include respect for nature, soil, water, and remaining biodiversity, the resource, the very resource that your property borders upon. >> You have a house, sir? You live in the
house? >> Yeah. Yeah, I live in a house. >> Do you read the wood they have used their house? How many trees they have to cut to give you provide you the the wood you using it? >> And what does that have to do with >> that has to do environment? The nature
is there for us to serve us. >> Oh, and we have to follow the rules what the land permit to do that. >> Um, >> okay.
Um, did it ever there was mention made here about the the Methodists and how they pulled the carpet out from under you and was even mentioned that you could have performed the lawsuit.
Did you ever consider the fact that the Methodist church retracted because of their respect for the neighborhood and the natural resource that borders their property?
>> Maybe you were right. >> They Okay. All right. And in the beginning when you were talking, you're talking about old people. You want to make it easy for old people and then you tied that in to your
housing project which only has 20% affordable housing. So as a nonprofit you're not 100% affordable which you could be. Your market will bear bare minimum affordable
but you also insinuated that that 20% would be old Islamic people who can pray in your space at at their convenience.
That's the way it sounded. So, do you have a way that you're going to work this out that we don't know about? That that 20% will be occupied by only people of your particular sect of
Islam. I have no control on the 20%. >> It's the way you made it sound. >> I'm just saying loud and clear that 20% I have no control. >> All right. So my final question one one more time is your sense of community
does not include respect for nature and and the resource that your property bors upon. >> If you think so, maybe you're right. >> Well, that's what you said. >> I said nothing. I said whatever it did I follow the law of state of New Jersey.
>> You said nature was for us to do what we want. >> Well, you eat the vegetables. >> I I think this is >> you kill the chicken lifeative. >> It's becoming argumentative. >> I I would point this out that we did secure a permit from the Department of
Environmental Protection. Uh with regard to this proposal uh so it was vetted by the D and they did issue a permit. The permit was recorded with the county clerk and it's included with the application package. >> You have a question, ma'am? >> 17. >> Step forward and state your name. Spell
your last name, please. >> Sandy Losavski. L I S O F S K I. >> What's your address? >> 680 South Pepper. >> You can move that down if >> Thank you. >> So, I do have a question. Just bear with me. I want to put it into context.
I know we've talked a lot about parking, which is obviously very important as we've had issues. Putting that aside a moment, the overall issue is thinking an apartment complex belongs in this neighborhood. >> Not a question.
>> I've been here years. >> You have you have a question. >> It's coming. You have to understand it. Been here 60 years. Okay. I respect change. I respect diversity. And as you mentioned, 1986, since we've had a lot of traffic, a lot more trucks, all kinds
of things. That being said, adding an apartment complex is not something else we want to embrace in this particular neighborhood. Why do you think you can come here
asking for all of these different changes, variances, different conforming conformities we have to change to and think that's okay to be part of this community that we love and cherish for all this time? Tell me what in your
opinion, how is this benefiting me and my neighborhood? >> I'm sorry if you feel that way. >> There's nothing to be sorry about asking you. >> Here's the thing. Being a neighbor, we have to respect each other. Absolutely. As long we don't >> let him answer your question.
>> Yeah. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead. Answer the question. >> So I was saying as a neighbor we respect each other. >> So I'm the neighbor. So if you decide to put addition your home, that's your home, right? I can object or I can't
object, right? That's my right and you're using your right and I respect that. That's the answer I have for you. >> But but you're saying how you respect people and you want to do things for the community. How is this doing anything? >> Sister, you might not like my answer,
but I answer you. I respect where you stand, but I don't have to be agree with you. >> Okay. I think I got that. >> Okay. >> Okay. Another question. >> Okay. Um double shot uh 86 South
Parlament Road. Um disclosure all the questions are from me as a personal >> understand about >> um uh you mentioned there were two mosques that were uh came after uh your mosques. one came after.
>> One came after and um I think that's a testament right we have three mosques, tons of temples, tons of synagogues and churches that Paripony as a whole accepts everyone as long as we all follow the rule of law. Um there's no bias here.
>> Is there a question? >> He related to a question to a bias. Do you foresee that this is a bias this u town hall that we're going through? I don't I don't see how that question >> because at the beginning it was related. >> What is your question about his
testimony? >> So that was part of the testimony where it came out to feel like hey this is a biased decision. Do you feel after t three mosques tons of temples that and churches parts of welcome that this is
forum is a bias forum. Do you feel this is a biased forum against the decision and zoning? >> Do you have an opinion? I I don't think that's an appropriate question. >> Okay, fine. Next question. Um, so
>> Paripony is very large. Um, did you check any other options where uh retirement building with the associated mosque? we had another mox created uh but within let's say hollyy road or by liquid church liquid church did a
fabulous job uh by creating the model uh way of going about >> bringing in the community. So did you investigate any other options apart from this property? >> Is there an future plan to
>> No. >> Okay. I think that answers the questions for the neighborhood. Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay. All right, Mr. Shephus. Oh, is there somebody else coming? Okay, >> we will we will take >> the hour the hour is getting late, folks.
>> Yes. And we will take >> I'll just ask one more question. >> Your question and then >> uh so my name is Vijay. >> Yeah. What's your name, sir? >> Vijay Amzoshi. >> How do you spell your last name? >> N A M J O S H I. >> And where do you live? >> Nine Harden Drive.
>> What what question do you have? So uh Mr. Koker you uh said that uh your organization IBS is registered under 501c3 correct >> and the current property is completely owned by IBSA. Is that correct?
>> Is it called DBA doing business as I C it is IBSA tax ID. It fells under IBS umbrella. >> Right. But >> does that mean IBSA is the legal owner of the property or something someone? >> Yes.
>> Sorry. >> What are your questions sir? You have to speak loud so I can hear you. >> Is IBSA the legal owner of the property? Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. So in that case uh
as per my understanding the assets owned by the taxexempt organization should be only used for tax exempt purposes. >> Yes. >> Owning a commercial residential property is is it a tax?
>> It's not tax is not 509. The new project is not fells under tax exempt status. >> That's correct. But then it is on the property which is bought for the tax exempt purposes. >> Yeah, I know. But that they're going to
pay fair share money to the IBS whatever is cost to lease the property from them. IBS need to be survive and sustain. So we have to reason to produce some income to sustain the IBSA. So the new project
is going to pay fair share leasing pro land from from IB asset to paying back to them. Yes. Money overflow they're going to pay tax. >> Okay. I mean uh as per my understanding it doesn't look like that it can.
>> Well I'm speaking the paper in front of you. You understand what you like my friend. I answer you the best ability. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. So Mr. Shephus, it's we're done for the evening. Correct. >> I >> I don't see anybody else in the audience
that's coming up and I don't have any other questions of Mr. Kar. >> So I I I think you've you've probably understand the board's position with respect to preparation in advance of the next meeting. >> Understood. >> In terms of additional drawings,
additional reports and things of that nature. >> Yes, sir. >> We we don't have a March date anymore. Correct. >> We do not. >> So, um, >> you want a date to carry it to for purposes of noticing a new date. Correct. >> I would appreciate that.
>> But I I would ask that you you uh appear at that next date and advise the board at that time how much time you need to get all of the reports and plans done to make a full complete presentation at the
next hearing. I do know that these plans are already well underway. Uh and I don't anticipate that it will take as much time as you would imagine. I would imagine uh probably a month or so we'd be able to have everything ready. But that being said, if we can get a date
sometime that's we can be carried to and then I'll have a date certain for you from there. >> We're talking about the same thing we've done before. Just give a date for the purpose of giving a the next date. Right. >> March 4th. >> All right. Terrific. Uh well, here's the problem. March 4th, I have another
meeting uh that I'm already engaged at. We're actually have two presentations at. Is there any other uh >> that's just a date? >> Yeah, I know, but I can't physically be there because I'm going to be presenting two cases in >> I think it would be helpful that you appear at >> I'm sorry,
>> March 18th. >> That works. So, the anticipation is that at the March 18th date, you'll be able to tell the board exactly when you expect to have all the additional documentation completed >> and perhaps they'll even be filed by that date.
>> Great. >> I think the board would very much appreciate that. >> Understood. >> May we have a uh a motion, please, to have Mr. Sheepers come on March 18th. We may give him the date. >> So moved.
Second. >> All in favor? >> All in favor? >> I >> Okay. And just to be clear, I ask that notice be preserved and carried to the board's regular meeting of March 18, 2026 at 7:30 p.m. at the municipal building, 1001 Parcipony Boulevard,
Paripony, New Jersey. Without further notice, I consent to an extension of time for the board to act through April 30th, 2026. >> Great. Thank you, Mr. Shephus. Do we want to just tell the audience that that is not going to be a full-blown hearing? That is just to determine the date of
the next full-blown hearing. >> I think they understand that. I see a lot of nodding heads in the audience. So, it sounds like they got the message. >> March 18th, just for the purpose of giving notice of the new date when there
will actually be testimony. >> You need a motion to adjourn. >> We have a motion to adjurnn, please. >> Motion to second. All in favor? >> I I came. >> Thank you.