Good evening and welcome to the special meeting of the township of Corpony Troy Hills Board of Adjustment. Today is Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025 and it is 7:30 p.m. Announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted in
accordance with >> with NJSA 10 col4-6 at set of the New Jersey Open Public Meetings Act. Roll call. Mr. Mr. Burkowitz >> here. >> Miss Dross >> here.
>> Mr. Jobs >> here. >> Mr. Maserella >> here. >> Mr. Petty >> here. >> Mr. Quinn >> here. >> Mr. Ready is not here. Mr. Willings >> here. >> Chairwoman Grani >> present. >> We also have our board planner, Mr. Chadwick, >> present.
>> Our board engineer, Mr. Lmanowitz, >> here. >> And our board attorney, Mr. Johnson, >> here. >> Would you please stand and join us in the pledge of allegiance? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Mr. Chadwood, can you raise your right hand, please? Do you swear or affirm that any testimony that you give tonight should be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> Mr. Manowitz, do you swear or affirm
that any testimony that you give tonight should be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> Thank you. >> Would any member of the public like to speak about something not on our agenda this evening? I see none.
Application 24 col 38 Islamic Community Cultural Center 879 South Bewick Road block 764 lot 64 zone R1-RW preliminary and final site plan with CD
variance to construct a fourstory 29 unit housing facility. >> We're down to three stories. Okay. >> Nice to see everyone this evening. May I be seated? >> You may. >> Yeah. For the record's purpose, my name
is Steven Shepus. I'm the applicant's attorney. Where we last left off, uh, we were completing the testimony of Wakar Kokar. He's seated here to my right. I believe the board had asked some questions and then from there there were some questions that people were lined up
to ask some questions. So, he's here this evening. I remind him he's still under oath. >> Sure. Just for the record, raise your right hand, please. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we're going to follow the same
procedure that we have followed with respect to other witnesses. There is an attorney here who represents uh some neighbors of the application. We're going to allow that attorney to ask his questions first because it may be more
efficient that way as his questions may be the same questions that some members of the public have. Once that attorney um asks his questions, then we'll open up the witness to questions from the audience. Okay. So, Mr. Mills, if you
could, if you have any questions, I'm sure you do, but if you do have any questions, if you could just state your appearance uh for the record and then ask >> just Oh, well. Good evening, Madam Chairman, members of the board. My name is John Mills from Morristown, New Jersey. I
continue to represent the Trabetti and Cred families with respect to this application. My technical assistant is uh endeavoring. Okay, maybe that's the the best. >> Anyway, uh good evening. Also, Mr. Chupus, >> take the mic out of the stand so we can
>> Yeah, it'll be a little better. It'll be better for you to speak loud. >> Oh, sure. >> You can take it out of the stand, please. >> No. >> No. At the top. >> Okay. All right. He got it. Oh, great. >> Oh, he's got it. There you go. >> He's used that before. >> Okay. >> There we go.
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Yes. >> I have a couple of questions for Mr. Kokar, if I may. Uh, Mr. Coker, you are affiliated with the Islamic Burial Services Association. >> Sorry. Officially, um, I'm primarily
associated with Islamic Community Cultural Center. Um, IBSA is more my dad's uh, wheelhouse. >> What position do you hold with the Islamic uh, cultural community cultural center? >> Executive director. >> Okay. And what is the relationship
between the Islamic Services Burial Center or Islamic Burial Services Association rather and the Islamic Community Cultural Center? >> Um so like I mentioned last time uh as part of my testimony um ICC Islamic Community Cultural Center is a DBA of
Islamic Burial Service Association. Um IBSA was the original purchaser of the property at 879 South Berwick Road. Um, after the property was purchased, the DBA was created to go and run the Islamic Center. >> For purposes of streamlining my
questioning, Mr. Sheepus, do you plan to call uh Mr. Coker's father? >> Yes. >> Okay. Then we'll take a look at some of the other questions that I had. U as I understand as I understand it, Mr.
Kokar, the application now speaks to 28 residential apartment units. Is that correct? >> I believe so. Yes, >> you're not certain. >> Well, it's also like I mentioned, right? Predominantly my role is in ICC. Uh a
lot of the questions that are related to the construction of the new uh expansion um my dad would probably be able to answer. All right. Well, the the applicant is the Islam Islamic Community Cultural Center, is it not?
>> Believe it's IBSA. >> When I read the application, it stated that the cultural center was the applicant. I >> mean, it's effectively the same, but my role here as far as giving my testimony is the operations of ICC. >> All right. Can you tell us how many total new
residents are proposed for the uh residential component? >> By new residents, are are you asking how many have stepped forward to express interest? >> Let me back up. You're seeking approval
from this board to construct on property owned by the Islamic uh burial Services Association, yet property operated by the Islamic Community Cultural Center, 28 residential apartment units. Is that correct?
>> Yes. >> How many residents do you anticipate to take occupancy in those residential units? >> I'm going to defer that question to my dad. He'd probably know better. How about the following? Will apartments be used uh by mosque staff or open to
the general public or will there sorry that's a compound question. Who do you anticipate to occupy these apartments? >> I'm going to defer that to my dad. He'd be able to answer it way better than I could. Are you familiar with the parking arrangements
>> currently or what they expect to be in the future? How many parking spaces are proposed if this application is approved? >> I'm not sure offh hand. My dad probably will answer that. >> Just any anything really related to the ongo upcoming construction or how it
would look after the construction is done or during the course of construction. My dad can can probably handle that. >> I'm trying to understand >> right right over there. John, >> may we have this witness answer the
questions first and then I'm sure they have other witnesses to come forward. >> It's not Please be patient. >> So everything we everything that's being said today is being picked up by the recording that will later on be turned
into a transcript for use if someone objects to the decision of this board. Okay. If the transcript is unreadable because there's comments from the audience that make the transcript unable to be
produced in a legible format that creates a lot of issues with respect to whatever decision this board makes. So, your comments, as well intended as they may be from the audience, are not helpful to to this board to to have a
clean record and make a decision based upon the evidence that's before them. So, I would urge you not to make comments from the audience. Thank you. >> Plus, the attorney said the father will be called. >> Excuse me. >> The attorney said the father will be called.
>> He will be called sitting right there. ready to go. >> Just they might not have heard that. >> Maybe if respectfully it may help sharpen my questioning if I could have a profer as to what the purpose of Mr. Coker's testimony was at the last meeting.
>> Uh >> Mr. Kart gave testimony about the operations of the facility as it exists today. >> All right, we can focus on that then. How many uh I'll call them what what do you participants how many uh religious
affiliates does the mosque have? >> So um religious affiliates is a bit of a loose term. Um in essence uh anyone can really go to any mosque. Generally speaking, uh, as far as our major services, which are on Fridays, um, we
net about between 150 to 180 individuals in the first service and the second service an hour later, uh, it's a little bit lower than that, maybe around 80 to 100. >> What is the, uh, parking situation that pertain as it pertains to the current
attendance? So right now we on average uh typically fill up the lot and we have volunteers uh myself included that stand in the uh in the lot to uh assist if there was you
know double parking that can be arranged very quickly or uh you know facilitating people coming in and out. Uh in addition to that uh Preston Road across the street is uh available for use. I take it from that that you are then
aware that current mosque operations already result in overflow parking onto residential streets. >> Yes. >> Okay. How often do attendees park on neighboring streets during the Friday prayers or events?
>> Typically for Friday prayers, usually uh there's almost always parking on Preston. Uh beyond that, uh I don't really have visibility into. Have you been made aware of any complaints or notices from residents regarding the parking situation?
>> We have spoken to uh pre Precipany Police Department uh as they relayed uh you know issues and complaints from residents that are in the area. Uh we've dealt with uh them in the most efficient and productive ways possible. Uh and we
have a pretty open door policy. All right. We're we're more than welcome to uh listen to any grievances or issues otherwise that might be presented by residents that live on Preston or any of the surrounding streets. >> But you do acknowledge that the current parking is already insufficient to meet
the existing needs. Do you not? >> In regards to our congregation, we can accommodate our our uh congregation with the combination of our parking lot and Preston Street. >> Yes. So the congregation and thank you
for giving me the correct word is accommodated only by use of overflow parking in the on the local residential street. Is that correct? >> Generally yes. >> And then perhaps you can explain to us how reducing the parking will alleviate
rather than worsen this problem. So uh like I mentioned in the testimony last last time um the sort of nature of our you know arrangement that we have and you know the transient nature of you know our specific congregants right and
their ability to really go pray anywhere else kind of creates an organic cap uh as far as you know total number of attendees. You know, if you put yourself in a position of someone who wants to come and pray on Friday, you come in and the parking lot is full and the nearest spot is like a quarter mile down
Preston, you are in more than more than likely probably just going to go pray somewhere else, right? And there's, you know, three or four other places of worship that uh can accommodate those individuals. Uh and I would anticipate uh you know if construction started and
parking was diminished by a certain amount um that natural organic cap would just get lowered and uh you know whatever arrangement exists now would essentially continue in uh a similar fashion. >> Perhaps you could refresh me. How many parking spaces are being provided
specifically for the new residential apartments? >> My dad can answer that. How would the center plan on preventing apartment tenants from competing with spaces used by worshippers?
>> My dad can answer that. >> Will the residents be prohibited from parking on nearby residential streets? Look, >> anything related to the actual residence of the building, uh, you know, the new proposed building, I think you can probably just punt that to the next
witness. Do you have any specific plans to mitigate the parking situation once the number of parking spaces if this is approved are reduced? Again, I think my my dad can probably handle the logistics of, you know, what
happens after it's approved. Or >> when you speak about the number of congregants, uh, let me back up. I'll withdraw that. How many services are typically on a Friday? >> We have two services. >> Thank you. And the attendance at each is
about equal or not? Not not equal? >> No, the first one generally gets more. The second one gets less. >> What are the times of those services? uh these days 2 pm and 3 pm >> and and do both services result in the
need to have overflow parking on the residential streets. >> So uh the first service generally uh we see Preston Road being used. Um the second uh I know there's open spots in our parking spot by the time the the
service finishes. Now whether or not uh the congregants come and you know opt to just park on Preston regardless of the situation in the parking lot um that's something that uh you know it's kind of out of our control. >> What specific complaints have been communicated to you about the
residential situation meaning the residents of Peripany not the new residents? >> Uh mostly mostly uh blocking of driveways. >> How about blocking mailboxes? Yeah, I think it's it's in that scene. Yeah.
>> How about concerns for emergency vehicle access on the local streets? >> Uh the police department has mentioned that and we've uh you know worked with them and uh you know I believe we've we've uh closed down parallel parking on
one side of Preston Road specifically for that reason. Uh would you agree with me that the project that's proposed actually increases the the intensity of the use of the site while reducing parking capacity?
>> You're asking for the during the duration of cris construction or after the construction would be complete >> after if approved. Do you agree that the project as proposed would increase the burden on the local residents? >> I'm going to defer that to my dad. You spoke about uh to some degree about
the uh religious practice of body washing, did you not? >> Yes. >> I had some questions in that regard. What I understood or took from the discussion was that the body washing
took place in a in a box truck. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> And that truck currently is no longer stored on the premises. Also correct? >> I don't believe so. >> And is it not true that that truck when used is not connected to municipal
sewer? >> Again, my dad handles most of the IBSA burial related stuff, so he'd be able to answer that. um along with any other line of questioning around the truck. >> I need to make a record here. So, I'm going to continue. Are you aware of any biohazard materials disposed of directly
from the truck onto onto the property? >> I'm not aware of anything pertaining to the truck. >> Well, when are you familiar with the body washing practice itself? >> Yes. >> Maybe you could describe that for us in some detail. Well, on a high level, uh it's essentially just uh you know, water
that's been, you know, washed over the body and uh you know, wiped down, right? >> So, it contains skin particles. Is that fair? >> I would imagine a body would have skin.
>> Does it contain Does the waste water contain bodily fluids? >> I would imagine. Yes. Has the health department ever inspected the inside of the box truck? >> I don't know. >> Did you obtain clearance from the health
department before embarking on this practice? >> I don't have those details. >> Can you tell us what measures are in place to ensure that bodily fluids from deceased individuals do not contaminate the surrounding area?
>> I don't have those details. Do you know if the facility, meaning the cultural center property, is zoned to permit a mortuary type practice? >> I don't have those details. >> Do you know if there's a funeral director's license employed during the
process of this body washing and burial? >> I don't have those details. Do you know if the truck is is licensed as a or registered as a mobile mortterary unit? >> I don't have those details.
>> You would agree with me, however, that while religious practices are protected, they must still comply with public health laws. Correct. >> Yeah, I think that's fair. Are you aware that other mosques perform body washing in properly licensed mortuary facilities?
>> I am not super aware of the practices of other mosques. >> There's nothing that would prevent the process from occurring in a properly licensed facility, is there? >> By property license, exactly what do you mean? a facility that meets uh health
code standards for the preparation of a body for burial. >> Okay. So, what was your question? >> There's nothing in Islamic law that prohibits the use of such a facility for body preparation. >> No, you can any anywhere that you can
wash a body, you can wash a body. It's all all good. >> Just some questions about the truck. Uh, how old is it? >> I don't have those details. >> Is it repurposed from a prior use? >> I don't have those details.
>> Does it have refrigeration or temperature controls in the box? >> I don't have those details. >> How is the truck cleaned following use? >> I don't have those details. >> Are the piece persons performing the washing certified in the handling of
human remains? I don't have those details. >> Have they been trained in infectious disease control? >> I don't have those details. >> Have any of them received OSHA or biohazard training? >> I don't have those details. >> I think that covers everything. Thank you. Board members,
>> uh before we get to members of the public, I just want to follow up on some of your testimony. I just want to make sure I'm clear on it. >> Did you testify that in the past you have eliminated parallel parking on Preston? Was that your testimony? >> I believe I did. Yeah.
>> Okay. Can you explain what what exactly you mean by that? >> So, I know the police came and spoke to us in regards to the parking issue and this was a while ago, right? Um and I think one of the agreements that we came up with was that all the parking would
be on one side >> and and how have you gone about attempting to enforce that? >> So, uh like I mentioned last time, you know, we have volunteers. Uh I know my brother stand on Preston and specifically keep an eye on all the traffic coming in ensuring that
everything is uh you know on one side as much as possible. >> Okay. And do you do that at every on every Friday? >> I believe so. Yes. >> Okay. So on every f your testimony is that on every Friday? >> Yeah. >> Some member of ICCC
either you or your brother >> typically your brother >> a a member associated with a mosque. Right. >> Okay. Yeah. associated with the mosque is out on Preston. >> Yes. >> Directing congregants to only park on one side of Preston. >> Yes. >> Is that your testimony? >> Yes.
>> Thank you. All right. Now, we're going to You have one. Okay. >> Yeah. So, uh I believe going along those same lines, you said you have somebody out there making sure they're parking on one side or the other, but then you made the comment before that if there's space is open in the parking lot for the
second service and people are still parking on Preston. I believe you said it was out of your control to stop them from that. But if you're have somebody stationed out there from the mosque, they should be able to say, "Hey, there's a parking in the parking lot." So, it's it is in your control at that point is I guess my point, right?
>> I suppose in some sense, right? But, um, you know, typically, like I said, with the first service, um, we can say almost with almost full certainty that the lot is going to fill up, right? So the question really is, do you want, you know, person, you know, congregate number, you know, 12 parking on Preston
or congregate number 86 parking on Preston. Uh, and because of that, uh, you know, with, you know, the extra logistical headache of, you know, stopping someone, having them turn around and go into the lot cuz, you know, it's it's a U-turn on a oneway. Um, you know, we've essentially just
accepted like, okay, yeah, you can park on one side of Preston and anyone who wants to go into the lot can go into the lot and at the end it's all sort of a wash. So, I guess my opinion on that is you can see the people that have an issue with the parking, right? >> Um, I think that would probably maybe inconveniencing somebody by having to
make a U-turn would probably save you a lot of headaches with the neighborhood. >> Yeah. I mean, if the lot filled up and or the lot didn't fill up all the way and we didn't have any issues in Preston. Um, you know, but I think uh either way you're going to have people parking on Preston.
My my understanding uh you had an agreement with the Methodist church for a certain number of parking places. Is that still in place? >> No, it's not. >> So, with that not being there, that exacerbates the street parking. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you,
>> Madam Chair. Just a couple questions for >> um we we established that the Friday that the Friday services are two and three. How long are the services? >> Typically, we'll start at two and We'll wrap up around 2:35, maybe 2:40. It it
does vary. It's not a hard stop. And then the same with with the 3:00 one, about 30 35 minutes. >> Okay. If people are coming to the second service, >> being aware that there might be some stragglers from the first service, do you think they'd go directly to Preston, not even try the lot? >> Uh, it's certainly possible, but usually
at that point, Preston is also kind of a a log jam as cars are exiting out. Uh and and again it's not 100% right but generally because of that uh people tend to gravitate more towards a lot for the second second one just not having to deal with oncoming traffic.
>> Okay. And you had said in your prior testimony that there was an area of seating in the worship hall for there was there's an area for chairs for I'll say physically challenged people whether it be aged or how many chairs are there?
U maybe 20, but we can always pull out more. Right. So >> that's all I have, Min. Thank you. >> I have one more question. Uh I'm not my my fault for not knowing the answer to this, but I'll ask you. The current lot
size you have and the current facility, if you were not building these units, 29 units, what is what is that space right now where the where the apartments are planned to be built? What is is that open space now? >> It's it's the parking lot. >> It's all parking lot.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions from the board? >> I have a question. Uh you mentioned that during the service your congregates only park on one side of Preston.
>> As far as I know, yes. Are they when your lot is full, are they also parking in the street on South Beverwick or are they going to Quimby also? >> So I am typically stationed in the parking lot and usually when the lot
fills up, right, we close it off in the front and we tell people to not park on South Bever because that's illegal, right? Um we tell them to go on the street on Preston. Sometimes they drive over to Quimby and make the walk back over down South Beverwick. I've seen
that before. Um but you know, we we typically don't give that granularity of of direction other than just don't park on South Beverwick because it's >> illegal. Yeah. >> Any other questions from the board? >> The
number of people that attend the Friday services, that's estimate currently. >> Yes. >> What was the number of people attending three years ago?
>> Were you there? >> I was there. Yeah. I mean, we've gradually been, you know, increasing our numbers and I I think we've plateaued around these numbers that I gave. Um I couldn't tell you really exactly where we were three years ago. I mean, it was on the he heels of COVID. People were
still kind of iffy. people were still kind of figuring out that we existed. Uh I'd imagine it was less but uh you know I couldn't give you a solid number. >> How about going forward? Do you have a plan for that >> in terms of parking or
>> in time in terms of numbers? >> I mean you know like I mentioned uh you know there is kind of an organic ceiling uh you know when it comes to just being able to logistically get into and out of the building to your car. Um, I would
imagine we'd have more churn. You know, some folks move away, some people come in. But, um, you know, I I it's hard for me to go and decisively say we're going to get more people just cuz I already have seen specific cases where people that used to come to our mosque
regularly no longer come. Uh, they sort of just go somewhere else because, you know, we close a lot. We tell them to, you know, park on one side and then, you know, it's like a 10-minute walk then and they're just like, "Yeah, we're going to go put somewhere else." So, Pardon? >> It's too >> essentially. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on the testimony given by this gentleman this evening? >> This is your time to ask questions of this witness on the testimony that he has given either tonight or the last time he testified there. If you have
questions not related to the testimony of this witness, there's probably going to be a different witness that you would ask those questions to. So, if you could line up at the microphone, identify yourself, spell your last name, and just tell us where you live.
>> Hello, my name is Bertton Eisenberg, and I live in Paripony on Parrot Drive. Uh, I remember three months ago when you last met, you seemed to have a little bit more information about the uh
preparation for burial service. At that time you stated to someone's question that the waste water or the used water
uh generated during the washing is is put down or is transferred to the sanitary sewer. Now you stated you didn't know. So the question is which
one is it? If you're uh taking or if the service is taking the waste water and dumping it down the sanitary sore without treating at all,
you don't know how many different bacteria is contained in the wastewater. And you don't it sounds like there is no >> question. What's your question? >> Okay, the question then. Well, I'm
repeating first what he said. Do you know what the what the waste water contains as an effluent of the body washing process? Is that >> Yes. >> Yeah. Uh, >> I have a pretty good idea myself.
>> Well, what's the question is, do you know what the wastewater contains? >> I'd imagine, you know, products that were on the body, but I can't decisively say on a scientific level. I mean, you know, as far as the the previous testimony, you know, I'm generally aware
of the practice, right, from a religious perspective on how it works and uh, you know, aware enough to understand that, yeah, the truck itself connects to electricity. it, you know, connects to the municipal sewage line. But beyond that, right, you know, beyond those high
level details, um, that, you know, you pick up just from being in the area. Um, a lot of those questions, I'll just tell you right now, my dad would probably give you way better answers. >> So, >> so the answer is not to a scientific level, but I am generally aware that
there are, you know, byproducts of, you know, human remains that are part of that effin. Well, let me enlighten you. There are thousands of different This is your chance to ask questions. If you have a statement,
there'll be a different night. Okay. >> When you can make statements either in support of or in opposition to the application. >> Okay. Uh, regarding the parking situation, you stated that the apartments that are proposed
will be um constructed on existing parking spaces. I believe last time you also stated that there would be 28 or 29 parking spaces, one for each apartment.
So the problem is that it seems to me and please please uh enlighten me that after the proposed apartments are built there is now
me many less parking spaces for congregants. Is that correct? >> I would imagine yes. there would be fewer parking spaces after the construction. >> Okay. So in that case you have a bigger
problem of congregants parking outside of the your area on the public. In other words in the surrounding areas you now have you can you now create a
bigger problem than you have now. How are you supposed to accommodate all the vehicles? >> So like I mentioned um you know there is that organic cap that you know I'm going
to trademark now right where uh you know as the number of parking spaces diminishes the you know number of congregants that come and use those parking spaces also naturally gets depressed. So uh you know we will continue doing what we uh continue what
we do now and uh you know deal with it as we deal with it. Okay. So in other words you don't know how you're going to accommodate these people. You're assuming you're making assumptions. They're guesses. You don't
know. Am I correct? I I don't know how to answer that question. Maybe I don't know. I like hearing you speak, but it's just I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, right? I answered it to the best.
>> Are you going to accommodate the vehicles? Let's assume it's the same number of vehicles as now. How would you accommodate these vehicles in your parking lot if
you have so many less spaces for for outside congregants without directing them to the surrounding areas? Well, like I said, we already direct them to street parking,
>> but you're going to have many more because you have less parking spaces. Instead of more parking spaces, you have less parking spaces. So, how will you accommodate these people who come with their cars?
>> Like I said, the same way we do it now, right? Only worse. As people come in, we will place them in a parking spot. Once the lot is full, we will direct people elsewhere. >> Only worse. You creating you're taking a bad situation and you're making it worse
by taking away some of the existing partners. >> You've asked you've asked your question and he's given the answer. >> Thank you. C >> could I just ask one thing? So you you keep saying that it will organically correct itself because of
the people will come there'll be traffic whatever but this room has a capacity number on it right you could use the same logic you don't need a capacity number because people will come it'll be crowded it'll be full and people will just organically go away
>> right >> well I think a little bit different people would it is I agree. But it's kind of the same logic. You think it might, but if someone feels they need to pray >> and this is close, >> they might find a way to keep coming.
>> Yeah. But, you know, if you look at it logistically, right? You know, at that point, let's say the lot is closed, right? Your nearest spot is a 10-minute walk, right? If they're just coming to pray, generally speaking, people don't invest 10 minutes of walking time to just come and pray, right? Usually,
again, this is based on my what I've seen, right? They will just drive five minutes to the other precipit by the firehouse and just pray there or they'll drive 10 minutes to, you know, Rockaway or Bonen or Lake Haywa, um, and they'll just pray there. So, I mean, yeah,
theoretically, you know, what you're saying, you know, could end up happening. Uh, but in practice, I, you know, uh, I have essentially seen the contrary. >> Okay. Ma'am, you have a question. >> Yes. >> Could you just state your name? >> Yes. My name is Joanne Fischer. I live
at 872 South Beverick Road, right across the street. You're my neighbors. Um, I want to know, do you have activities in the middle of the night? I see cars going in and out of the driveway all night long. >> Define define middle of the night.
>> Well, all night. 2 in 2 am, 3:00 a.m. >> Generally, >> there's there's cars and I there's traffic. Not traffic. It's the wrong word. There are cars going in and out of the driveway and I was wondering if the mosque is open 24 hours. >> Uh, so it's not really open. We lock the
doors after a half hour after our last prayer. Um, except >> What time is that? >> So these days it's at 7:35. So usually around 8:05 we these days. Uh, in the winter time yeah it's about 8. Uh, in the summertime the last prayer is around
10:15 10:20. So usually by 11:00 everybody's out. uh in Ramadan, which is maybe, you know, once or twice uh a year in the last 10 days of Ramadan, we'll have an all night program. Um that's really the only time you'll see like an actual mosque activity. Um but I think I
know what you're referring to, right? I have at some times seen just random cars come in and they just park there. And you know, I went there once, it was a a teenage couple, asked them what they were doing, they kind of just drove off. Uh just kind of the reality of having a big lot that's in the woods. uh you kind
of attract folks that just want a place of privacy. So, uh I wish I could do something about it, but uh you know, it's out out of budget right now and you know, maybe we'll >> Well, I'd like to graciously disagree with you. There's a lot of activity at night. Thank you. >> Yep.
>> Okay, sir. Do you have a question? >> Yes. >> State your name. >> My name is Davos Sha at 86 South Part. Thank you. >> Um how long have you been operations manager for? Um, ICCCC opened uh December of 2020, January 2021 early. It
was around that new year time. >> Cool. Uh, and when was the first time you heard the complaints about the parking, the excessiveness, the blocking of the driveways? >> I want to say we noticed it uh maybe a little over a year into operations once
a lot of the CO restrictions were up and and the congregation started to uh surge, you know, >> so about 2021. Um, if anything, it'd probably be, you know, at the end of 2021, uh, at the end of, um, uh, probably middle of 2022, if I had to say, right?
>> So, technically, you've heard residents complain over and over from 2021 to now. Is that a correct fact? >> Well, you know, complaining, right, can can be a lot of things, right? U, you know, somebody complained that somebody parked in front of their driveway while
having everything open. So I mean yeah in a sense >> people people we've had an open dialogue with our uh neighbors since 2022 and earlier even >> my concern here is and I'm in operations I manage operations as well but it appears that over the course of four
years the pain has gotten worse for the residents do you see the same >> I think our numbers have gone up and uh as part of that right generally these instances of people uh you know parking in a uh inconsiderate way will will
naturally go up and as a result yeah complaints will go up. >> So how is this friendly to the community? I know you were speaking in the last time around community building the trust >> but it's gone worse for the residents. So how are you planning to build that
trust back because apparently that's why most of the members are here because it's been broken. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I've said time and time before, right? You know, we we are, you know, very open to, you know, any of our neighbors who want to come in, speak to us, right? Even last time, uh spoke to uh one or two individuals that um you
know, I believe spoke to the last witness. Um you know, it's it's uh uh it starts with, you know, open dialogue, open conversation. Anytime uh you know, we catch wind of you know, a neighbor uh you know, having their driveway blocked or mailboxed, we immediately either call
the police, tell them to call the police, tell them to tow the car, right? We we have uh you know very low tolerance for members of uh associated with our mosque going and and behaving that way, right? And you know these things as you know these instances happen more and more often and more and
more visibly um you know we hope that uh it creates you know uh a a reverberating effect where you know the next congregant will maybe think twice about doing that. >> But it hasn't happened to date. Is that correct? Well, you know, I can imagine there's been people that, you know, uh
are no longer doing that because of those things, right? >> So, it's hard to go and measure what hasn't happened. That's the thing, right? >> As an operations manager over the course of four year and four year trend, my hope you would be. So, do you have any
measurements that you follow, data that you follow, complaints that you get to see what the reaction is from the communities and how it doesn't seem like you have a plan to address it yet? And with uh the new buildings coming in, I
understand your dad uh will answer those questions, but I I'm assuming will you be still handling the operations? >> Yeah, I'll be handling operations. Yeah. >> Okay. So now even more cars may come. Is that correct? That's anticipated. Right.
On the streets there will be more cars. >> On what basis? >> Less parking spaces. >> I mean it's about the same, right? Yeah. Parking spaces go down, the street parking goes up. >> Okay. How will you address that? >> So like I mentioned to the the previous
questioner, right? Um it's it's sort of the same trajectory that we're doing now, right? continue to uh you know f cars and and you know enforce being you know respectful when it comes to parking and mindful um and working with the police, working with the neighbors. >> Okay, great idea with working the police
and the residents. Let's say in the future and I've seen this in other townships. If only residents can park and I'm hoping the residents can proceed with that. If only residents can park around the area, how will you address that? and resident permits within the
resident areas. >> If the township decides to go that route, then you know, I don't see why we wouldn't cooperate with them, right? >> Okay. Excellent. Thank you. I appreciate it. >> I have a couple of questions. >> Can you state your name? It's
>> Sorry. My name is Samir. Samir Ranab. >> And where do you live? >> I live in Parupi, uh, 143 Carlton Drive. >> Thank you. What's your question? >> Uh, my question is, um, I have a couple of questions. So you mentioned like you and it supposedly there's a team of
people who almost it sounded like it I perceived it to be like a managing of traffic which is coming in as a gluts formed as more cars come in. Don't you think that's a kind of managing or
controlling of traffic which is traversing NJSA 39480 which prevents private citizens from managing or controlling traffic? It's only the police officers or the police department which is supposed to
manage if there is like an overcrowded situation. >> It's private property, right? So I think >> no but you just now mentioned that your congregation spark as of now in Preston and just you know a few moments ago according to your testimony it sounds
like from everything that you mentioned with the project getting approved supposedly it'll start spilling over into not just Quinnby but I'm almost anticipating Leonard and all the other streets right so it sounds like you're going to have
to put more more boots on the ground to manage manage the traffic and firstly that is illegal right as private citizens to be doing so. So how do you how do you supposed to manage the traffic or the congregations or the affiliates coming in with the project on
and your congregations and let's say a day like Ramadan. >> Well some uh few points um one uh you know we have a good relationship with the you know precipany police and they're aware of what we do right we haven't had any issues with them saying
you know us telling people to park on one side or telling people not to block driveways is illegal. Um so as uh you know far as their interpretation of that law goes it seems like we're in the clear and if not then uh we're more than welcome to have the discussion and you know when it comes down to it right if
we need to get more volunteers and more boots on the ground we >> No that's that's my question that's precisely my question that these boots on the ground and private citizens managing the parking and the traffic situation is against the law. It's really the police officers who should be doing that and maybe now it's manageable
and now the police is okay but what if you know as you just mentioned and it clearly is anticipated that the number of you know attend attendees as well as the residents all put together they continue to increase this becomes a bigger problem as Dul also mentioned
before me so how do you manage to mitigate that >> like I said will increase >> my question is around like just just so I'm clear my question is around private private citizens managing traffic on Saul Berwick and the by streets by lanes
>> Samir brother I said we have a relationship with police already and they haven't indicated anything that we're doing is illegal >> no no I'm talking about like the future I mean right now the entire >> more boots on the ground right because we have thankfully no shortage of volunteers that are more than welcome
>> my question is exactly pertaining to the volunteers trying to manage the traffic situation that's that's my question that they should not be doing it. I mean, I have been in social functions where I have been told by the local police department that sir, you cannot I
actually had dawned the um the florison shirt and I've been told that you're not supposed to do that. So are you saying that you're going to have to have you're going to have an arrangement with parsip please that they'll somehow nominate you guys as you know the ones who can who
can control but I mean you we'll have to amend we'll have to amend NJSA 39480 for that okay let's move on to my next question I clearly see like I have been a resident of 24 years and thankfully I've been a cyclist all around the town and I
can vouch that the amount of honks and the amount of risk I have perceived while cycling on that stretch of South Bearwick road >> is the highest. >> What's your question? >> Yeah, I'm I mean I'm just preparing a background for it. >> Okay.
>> Um >> what and I'm telling you so basically it's a it's a treacherous stretch of road where I have seen the Europe of village actually walking and I feel bad for them. who assumes the liability if anything were to happen to the
affiliates while coming into the center and getting out of it and I've seen an awful lot of affiliates you know walking on that that stretch of road who assumes the liability if there's you know god forbid some incident some accident >> are you asking what happens if somebody gets hurt while crossing south bywick
road >> that is correct >> I imagine that the driver that hit that person would assume liability >> but what if it's a hit and run >> what if anybody gets hit anywhere and it's hit and No, but this is specifically the incre the risk is being increased, right? And we know that you
know it's within our control and we if we still allow then it becomes like for instance Troy road and um the you know Bwick road that intersection is very vulnerable. I've seen like accidents happening virtually
every 3 months. So I'm just talking about these pain points when we know these pain points exist why do we why are we adding one more without any kind of oversight. So basically who assumes is ICCC going to assume the liability from such incidents occurring?
>> No. If somebody uses their car to hit somebody ICC is not going to assume liability. >> Oh cool. That's the only question. The last question, have you assessed what the impact on the property prices of all the other residents is going to be with
this project coming in? Do you think it'll have a positive impact or a negative impact? >> Personally, I have not done that analysis. No. >> All right, cool. Those are the only questions. Thanks. >> Thanks, Samir. Hello, my name is Bin Nasha and I live
in Persipani on Queenby Court. Now according to them they are saying that the prayer starts on Friday afternoon but it seems like from the morning they are blocking our driveway. You have a
question >> and it comes the question is that that what time actually the prayer starts and before that the parking our street is being blocked number one. Number two >> wait hold on ask one question at a time.
What's your first question? First question is that what why do we see the activities in the morning Friday morning and our area our street is being blocked by at least two three four cars.
>> So like I mentioned at the testimony last time right uh the Friday service is really the major service. We have prayers five times a day. um you know we have early morning prayers at around 6:15 6:20 these days uh as well as afternoon and evening prayers uh generally the afternoon
evening prayers anything other than our major Friday service uh we'll get about 2 to 10 congregants so uh you know it is maybe you know at most four six seven cars in our parking lot uh what you're seeing Friday morning I would imagine is probably not related to anything that
we're doing >> okay so actually your prayers are five times not two times. You are saying every Friday you meet only in the afternoon but we see the traffic building up from the morning and
right on my street. >> That might be a coincidence cuz I don't believe >> you see the your uh the people coming out from the car walking uh on towards your uh Islamic center.
>> They could be walking somewhere else. I don't know. I just, you know, we I there's no reason for anybody to go and park on Quimby Road and then walk 10 minutes to our mosque at 6:00 a.m. on a Friday. Uh, and if they are talking, that's something that you can maybe 8:00
a.m. and onwards. >> Pardon? >> 8 a.m. and onwards. >> We don't have any programs at our mosque at 8 a.m. on Fridays. >> Do you have another question? Another question is that that uh same time what the question is the concern
more than question can we discuss the concern or it's just the question question >> this is your time to ask questions of this witness on the >> question my our concern is associated with the >> there will be a time when you can
testify to this board about your concerns with respect to this application that will come after this applicant has finished his presentation, not this evening, but after the applicant is done with all of its evidence and witnesses, then there'll be
a chance for members of the public to speak either in support of or in opposition to the application. >> Okay. So, the my Okay. So, I'll take a seat because my second note question is more of a concern. >> Then there'll be there'll be a time for you to voice that concern.
>> Okay. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. Thank you. Hi, my my name is Esther Camineski. I'm at 28 Skyler Street, which is sort of connected to Quimby, um but thankfully not. >> So, what is your question?
>> My question is um is the mosque tax uh tax exempt? >> Does do you know the answer to that? >> Yes, I do. And yes, we are. >> Okay. Will the connected apartments also be taxexempt? Normally I would ask ask my dad to to
take care of this but actually no this one uh it's not it's going to be independent. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And because that is going to be independent will you now lose your tax exemption? >> No.
>> Okay. >> Thank you. >> That's my question. >> Hi. Um I'm Serena Joe. I live on Bordeaux Drive in Pipony. Um, in the beginning, can you just clarify? I got lost a little in the You're the
executive director of the Islamic Center. >> Yes. Islamic Community Cultural Center. >> And what is the you mentioned uh doing DBA and an IBSA? Can you run through that again? >> Yeah. Um on a high level, uh the the primary entity is IBSA, Islamic Burial
Service Association. It's a nonprofit was established in 2011. uh primary purpose was to assist families uh throughout uh you know the burial process upon the loss of a you know family member or loved one. Um in uh 2020 uh IBSA purchased uh 879 South
Beverwick Road uh with the intent of creating an Islamic center uh just you know partially to assist with the burial processes but also to you know create an Islamic center and at that time uh a DBA was created uh of IBSA doing business as
ICCC. That's when ICC was created and ICC uh essentially runs the operations uh at that Islamic center. Anything uh that's not strictly burial related >> is what your >> is my perview. Yeah.
>> Okay. And so it's the burial services that you have to defer to your father. >> Yes. >> On all of that. >> Yeah. >> So the first gentleman and this you know maybe something we come the first speaker did an excellent job. Um and just to make sure that we keep this for
the record. Um, I wasn't here three months ago, but you mentioned that three months ago you said waste water was transferred into the sewer. Did you say that three months ago? >> Uh, yeah, I mentioned the municipal sewer was uh where uh the the the waste
products would be were going. Yes. >> Oh, so that's very clear. So, we have that on the record, but today you said you didn't know. I said I wasn't sure exactly the manner of the connection and you know some of the more finer details around that process >> but you do know now you're saying
exactly to his point it was an excellent point of which one was it it's three months ago so it does go into the sewer is that >> it goes to the municipal sewer. Yes >> into the municipal sewer. Okay so that's that's good. I'm glad we clarified that.
And then um how many burial washings and you may or may not know this. Do we do a week, month, year? >> Dad can probably answer that a little bit more better. >> Your dad. Okay. We look forward to hearing that. >> Me too. >> Um the with regard to the um parking,
you mentioned that it's only inconsiderate parking. You tried to make sure that the parking is not inconsiderate to the neighbors. uh consider it an illegal. >> Okay. What would be an example of considerate overflow parking?
>> Not parking in front of somebody's driveway or mailbox, >> but still parking on the street, you know, taking up all of Preston. >> Consider it considerate. It's still taking up all of Preston, right? >> I suppose. Yeah. >> Okay. Would you want to live on Preston?
>> I would love to live on Preston. You would? >> Yeah. I could just walk right right across the street. Oh, well that's that's a good point on if I don't get hit on the way >> in terms of residence permits. Somebody did mention this. This was an excellent point. I assume we're talking like Hoboken residential parking. So, just to
drill that down if these neighbors are able to get residential parking permits, which I do hope they do, what would be the solution when the parking lot is full? >> It's the same way we would do it now, right? If parking if Preston Road is off
limits the same way South Beverwick Road is off limits uh you know either tell people to actually park on Quimby and walk over which they're probably not going to do because who wants to do that or you know they can uh essentially go somewhere else. >> Well to drill it down what if every
single private residential street has residential parking permits like Hoboken does. >> In that case once the lot is full the lot is full. You know take your business elsewhere. >> Okay. I do hope that's pursued. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Uh Nicholas Hamac from Lake Hayawa. >> Do you have a question? >> Yes. Um you said um you mentioned a distance of a quarter mile. You said when the cars
get to be about a quarter mile back, uh people may uh leave to go to another mosque. And you also said about a 10-minute walk, which corresponds to the quarter
uh mile. So, um, is this common to see cars a quarter of a mile up the street parked? I've seen cars, uh, well, I mean, I didn't get my, you know, measuring tape
out, but yeah, it was probably what could amount to be a 7 to 8, maybe 10 minute walk. I've seen it before. It's not, I don't know how regular occurrence it is, cuz generally speaking, I'm not the one that's stationed on Preston. I'm in the parking lot. Um but I have seen it.
>> Uh and then you also said that they they may or may not decide to leave when it gets to that stage of a 10-minute or a quarter mile uh cars
parked. So my my question is why would someone drive all the way to the mosque for a time uh ritual and then leave
and go to another mosque to arrive there on time for that same um come back uh ritual if I'm using the right term. uh prayer, >> sacrament or whatever. I'm sorry. >> Prayer, that's the word, right?
>> Uh prayers. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh listen, you know, uh uh it's hard to, you know, decisively say what one person may or may not do, right? Um you know, sometimes I've gone to get coffee and the line was too long and I decided I didn't want coffee
anymore, right? So, >> all right. Yeah. Um would you say your uh constituents or congregation are more of a consistent or a random number?
>> It's it goes up and down. It's not >> all right. You mentioned two figures. You said the first was 150 to 180. So that's a difference of 30 more cars. You
also said this the second was 80 to 100 that's 20 cars. So these are are your figures. So what what is what is the usual? Is it 150 180?
>> It can be from 180 to 150 depending on the week. That's what a range is, you know, >> and that's averages, right? >> And not knowing the the length of a car, but would you 150 cars is a quarter
mile? >> Well, sometimes more than quarter mile a car, right? >> What are we doing? >> All right. But your organic solution that you spoke of, what it doesn't seem to be working. Would you agree with that? Would you
agree that your organ your organic solution if it gets up to a quarter mile in a 10-minute walk is obviously not working because you would want to drive there,
get there and be there for the prayers. 180 cars, 180 vehicles. >> What was Can you repeat the question? to question. I'm questioning your
magical organic solution to this problem. If between 150 and 180 cars show up regularly for your first prayer session,
well, uh it's 150 people, not cars, number one, right? uh and uh it's you know I want to just be clear it's not a solution in the sense we've implemented it specifically it's just sort of a natural occurrence that it happened um
and in that regard you know we have seen it working there are people that uh you know I know very well that used to come and you know now go somewhere else right uh I imagine you know there's a lot of people I don't know that used to come and and you know go somewhere else because of that right and you know what
ends up happening is your uh you know regulars that consistently come are the folks that you know live closest right they're not driving 10 minutes away right in those cases you know they drive 10 minutes the other direction and go to another mosque right um and uh you know by and large uh you know the numbers
seem to support that I just want to point out right that um this capacity issue that you know we continue to talk about right it's only specific to our Friday prayer on Friday afternoons right from you know 2 p.m. to about 3:40. Um,
so just just to be clear, right, it's not a daily occurrence, right? You know, 2 hours out of the week. Can you tell me of any special attraction that your mosque may have
compared to the other mosques that uh that would bring 150 to 180 people? I >> mean, we're organized. were clean, right? People come and see me, you know, that's that's a plus.
Okay, thanks. Play, do you have a lot of friends? I'd hope so. >> You have a question, sir? >> Yes. >> Identify yourself, please. >> Yeah. Hi, I'm Bruce Lachland. L O U G H L I N. Uh, I live on 95 Preston. So, I I
did see your brother out directing traffic to park on one side for a few week ago or so. A few times. The last few times. which I wasn't here last week, but the week before that and I think the week before that, he was not out there. So, if he's not out there directing traffic now, when you're
trying to get this thing approved, what guarantee do you have that someone's going to be there after this gets approved that he's going to be out there directing traffic? >> Your word? >> Well, you know, there's no guarantees in life, right? But, uh, you know, it's it's certainly possible that, you know,
there was a shortage of volunteers. You know, something slipped by, right? he might have stepped away to take care of another issue back. >> So, you know, these things are are are complex machines, right? And you know, we would hope that these hiccups are are minimized, especially once once the the construction, you know, commences. Um,
but you know, at the end of the day, we're we're all human, right? We're waiting for an AI robot to stand there and take care of it. But until then, right, we kind of have to deal with uh deal with the >> need to take your word for this then, that someone's going to be out there doing this parking on one side. >> You can take my word for it.
I'm not sure how good that word is to be honest with you. >> Just you have another question, sir. >> Yes, I do have another question. Do you realize how dangerous it is to even walk on South Beverwick and Preston Road? Even Preston Road has no sidewalks when you park on both sides of the road
besides emergency vehicles coming down and or can't get down. There's people walking in between cars out in the street and it's dangerous to your congregants. So, I mean, I don't understand how you could put your congregants, even if you're going slow,
at risk. Um, you have a answer to that. >> What was the question? >> You you put your congregants at risk just by walking down Preston Road when both sides of the street are blocked. They're walking in between cars. They walk obliviously down the street without
looking. I have a Prius, so it's hard to hear. It doesn't make much noise. and people will be walking right without looking and I could be going five miles an hour. I could still hit someone. So I I think it's dangerous for your congregation to walk up down and down Preston Street when you have both sides.
>> Do you have a question? Is there a question? >> Well, that's the that's the question. Yeah. What are you again? You got to do something about that or >> Yeah, I guess. Um we'll keep an eye on it, right? >> No, I mean I just I I have a hard time understanding what the question is, right? It's yeah, it's dangerous to go
and walk there. It's dangerous to walk anywhere, right? Like I said, we try to go and minimize it as much as we can. I've explained it uh in pretty strong detail. Um you know, I don't mind sit down and and you know, grab a cup of coffee and and go through it one more time, but uh you know, at the end of the
day, we we're we're doing uh our best and uh working with uh you know, with what we can have to work with. >> That's great. Thank you. >> Do you have a question, sir? >> Yes. Uh, my name is Norman Caner. I live on Faren Drive in Paripony. Uh,
question. Um, do your congregants pay a membership fee to your mosque? >> No, >> they do not. Okay. How are you supported then? >> Donations. >> Okay. But there is no membership fee. >> Nope.
>> Okay. Thank you. U we have we have not generally allowed second second bites at the apple. Okay. Well, the next person is coming up. Is there a plan for dealing with this? >> Good evening.
>> My name is >> Hold on. So, there's another there's a question coming from the planner. >> Is there a plan for dealing with the parking issue while this building was being constructed? >> My dad will probably go into those details.
>> You haven't seen it? >> Haven't seen the plans. >> I I think there's a plan. I I imagine there would be a plan but again my dad will will talk about that. >> Okay. All right >> sir you have a question. >> Hi uh >> just identify yourself please.
>> Yes my name is Vijay Namzoshi. I live in nine Hadenfield tribe. Uh my question is who owns the current lot and the existing structure on that lot? >> The current lot where >> where ICC is located? IB IBSA owns the
the lot in the building. Yes. >> Okay. And when the uh struct if the structure is created for residential units, who will own >> will will it be still IBSA or will >> I'm sorry sir. Could could you speak up
please? We we're having a difficult time hearing your question. >> Uh my apologies. Is it clear now? >> That's better. Just just continue to speak up please. >> Yeah. So who will own the structure? I mean who will own the lot and the structure once the residential units are created? >> From my understanding there's going to
be no sale. IBSA will continue to own everything. >> Okay. Uh second question and this is a very basic one. Probably it was answered earlier but I let me ask it anyway. So clearly I if I understand correctly clearly your organization has quite good
financial backing. So instead of creating asking for variances and clearly a lot of residents have problems with that, why not buy a properly zoned property and do this business over there?
[Applause] That feels good. But uh I actually reject your premise that we have good financial backing. We're pretty handtomouth right now. Um so >> okay, let's keep that aside. But even if you don't uh in that case this new
residential units will be a commercial enterprise. Isn't that correct? You'll have to pay taxes. You'll have to rent out the unit. >> My dad can can answer those details. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh all right. I'll reserve my question to you. >> Yep. Thank you.
>> Hi, Ellen Carter, 84 Preston Road. My question to you is that you said that there's only going to be parking issues on Friday, but once the apartment buildings are built and there isn't enough of parking spots for the people
who live there, what's going to happen to their cars? >> I'm going to defer those details to my dad, but you know, we're not getting rid of the parking altogether. There's still going to be spots, >> 29 spots, I believe you said. And on
Preston Road, there is parking on both sides of the road, not just on one. For a little while, there was, but for the most part, it's on both sides. >> Okay. That's not a question. So, you you'll have a chance to make statements either in support of or in opposition to
this application at a later date. >> Thank you. >> Sir, you have a question? >> Yes, I do. Uh, Gonzalez, 24 Barber Street. I have a very simple question. You're the executive director for the Islamic Center, correct? Correct. >> Uh your testimony today has been really focused on dismantling your
congregation. If you're a leader of your examic center, you want to grow your parish. Why are you saying you're going to put a building out there that's going to diminish that? Help me understand that logic >> in your role. >> Dismantling, I think, is a strong word, right? And and I think it paints a very negative picture. Uh you know,
ultimately the the goal, right, is to obviously, you know, increase our congregation to have a broader reach. if it comes at the uh you know uh the the damage or or you know uh the impact on
you know our neighbors and creates you know a lot of these uh you know legal hurdles and and these hardships you know that's something that uh actually supersedes the the Islamic goal of going and and creating a broader reach right um ultimately you know the the goal for anybody in any sort of position is
trying to balance you know competing interests right and uh you know we we try to do that right we continue to, you know, provide uh, you know, a weekend school, you know, an afternoon program where, you know, kids can get dropped off, you know, Friday night stuff with with some of the, you know, the kids and stuff, right? In in their teenage years.
Um, and, you know, that's ultimately going to be uh, you know, the the direction of focus that we take going forward, right? Where instead of uh, you know, building vertically on Friday afternoons to try to go and jam people in, uh, there's there's ways to build horizontally. So, um, you know, I I don't think anybody's dismantling
anything. >> Clearly from your testimony, you are because you're saying you're going to naturally contract because you're not going to have the space for people. People are going to want to go to other parishes. If I was an executive director of anything, my goal would be to grow and have greater impact on that
community. >> So, I'm not done. Go ahead. So, my question to you is my question to my question to you is what is your plan for the Islamic Center going forward? Is it to shrink it or or are you partnering with your father to have two side business and get kickbacks across the
two? Help me understand that. >> So, a lot of the testimony was specifically around our Friday service, right? Um and you know, that's a good applause. Um you know, there's there's different ways to go and grow a community. It doesn't necessarily, you know, need to need to
you don't have to squeeze it into a you know, Friday congregation. uh and this is I think ultimately uh you know it's worth pointing out the the differentiation between um sort of the common perception of what a congregation is maybe in uh you know the context of you know Catholicism or Christianity
right where you know each individual is kind of tied to a specific uh house of worship right and that's kind of where you go all the time right um whereas in in Islam uh you know you don't necessarily have that you know tight association where you're married to you
know the ICC C mosque on South Beverwick Road, right? You know, you can go pray your Friday prayers in Rockaway and then have your kids come to weekend school in ICC and, you know, have your your your teenage or 14-year-old go someplace else in Bhutin, right? Uh and that's totally
fine, right? And and you know, because of that, right, it gives us thankfully a lot of flexibility on how we want to go and uh you know, enhance uh you know, the the offerings that we have in order to go and and uh you know, fulfill our vision. So I I still haven't heard the
answer to my question is what is your plan to grow your outreach and impact. All you told me is you're going to send people to other congregations. I'm not hearing >> we're going to continue to build programs like we have been. >> Okay. >> Tell me about programs. I want to hear about what programs you're going to continue to offer or grow to help that
congregation grow and more impact to the community. >> So like I mentioned last time, right? And again >> I wasn't here last time. So it it you know that's fair. Um, look, you know, without really getting too deep into it, cuz I know it's it's it's kind of getting up there. Um, you know, we have
programs for, like I said, young young kids, right? Ages five to to eight, right? We have a weekend school going from, uh, you know, ages five to to, you know, 18, right? Um, you know, the plan is is, you know, to have, you know, additional programming for, you know,
ages beyond that, right? Going into, you know, your your early late teens, early 20s, right? We have, you know, family nights that happen whatever once a month, right? Increasing that to twice a month, right? Is is certainly within scope, right? Um, you know, creating more, you know, regular classes for
adults in the evenings, right? Which again, we've done those in the past, right? We will continue to do them. You get maybe, you know, 10 to 15 people, right? No impact on parking. Um, but the point is, right, you you know, there's there's a lot of ways to go and and do that, right? And you know, I don't mind
sitting down and going through our entire five-year plan with you. Uh I just don't think this is the best place to do it. >> Yeah. And so, but once again, don't you don't you think it's harder to actually grow a congregation if you're limiting
it, limiting the >> I'm about to get sniped right now. >> So, but don't you think it's going to limit your ability to actually implement those programs? Because like, oh, a the ICC, if I said that correctly, it it's always hard to park. it's always hard to get there. You know, I don't want to even go there. Why why would you be able
to grow? So, to me, I'm to me, my view is once again as an executive director, you should plan a little bit more around that. So, that's why I'm asking you to really tell us what that is. But I'm good. No more questions. That was a question. >> So, so I just want to get something clear because when the last questioner
asked about the congregation and its growth, I believe your answer was our goal is naturally to expand a congregation, which is I would totally agree with you. I think that's what organizations try to
do. So when I hear that is I hear you have a problem with the size of your congregation as it is now by growing it. It would just naturally make that problem worse. Your intentions could be totally admirable. Even some of your
answers, you know, make total sense. Let's try to get them to come another time. Let's try to do these things. But that doesn't make it make it work in that spot. It could still make a problem that's a problem a worse problem. What was a question?
>> Really wasn't a question. I just wanted to get on the record that you said your goal is is naturally to expand the congregation. >> So if you're naturally you want to expand it, >> to me that just makes the problem that is bad now worse later. So, so you know,
I think there's a conflation going on between the people that come on Fridays between 2 o'clock and 3:40 and anybody who comes and takes part in any program that we have, right? And you know, being in one group doesn't necessarily imply that you're in the other. Uh, and vice
versa, right? Um, you know, I I don't see why we can't, you know, continue to build our programming and, you know, have people come, you know, through throughout the week, right? Uh, and then just them simply deciding, hey, you know, it's a mad house on Fridays. I'm going to go somewhere else. Um, and
that's that's totally fine. And there are lots of people that I know that do just that, right? Um, so, you know, I I've seen it work. I uh you know, can't imagine uh you know, it it not continuing in that direction. >> Okay. Sir, do you have a question?
>> Yeah, I have a question. Uh, yes. >> Can you identify yourself, please? >> Yeah, my name is Yash, 15 Ulysis Street, Pipeni. Uh the question that I have is that there's a I I heard that there's a church near to your uh Islamic center, right?
>> Yes. >> Uh have you done any case studies around how they are managing the traffic, how they are doing it and how why can't you do it on your in your Slavic center? No, we haven't done any case studies, but from what I've been able to tell on
cursory glances, uh their congregation or the people that frequent their uh you know organization uh are a fraction of the people that fra uh you know frequent ours. >> So that means that your Islamic center anyways is not is not uh is is not
capable of handling that much people. Correct? >> I didn't say that. No, >> exactly. That is what because if you see that there are other religious places around this in in Pipani right we never had those issues in in those areas but
why do we have only issues in this area >> you asking that's your question why we're having the issues in other areas you have to ask >> why don't you why didn't you study how they are managing the traffic how they are managing the people >> I mean this is this has been coming every time whenever we have this these
conversations but If you have not done any work on that, how can you expect things working for you? >> Yashbite, it's not necessarily case studies, right? But, you know, it's a not a problem that anybody has if they don't have the numbers to fill up their lot, right? That's I think the bottom
line, right? And I can only speak for, you know, uh uh uh next door, right? Just cuz they're in proximity, right? Um but, you know, generally speaking, you know, they they're good on parking because, you know, they're good on numbers, right? So you are not good on parking and you are not good on numbers then
>> I think I've explained it pretty extensively. You know our numbers are uh you know >> are where they are right and our parking is where it is. >> Yeah. So then okay that that that's the question. >> Okay. Ma'am do you have a question? >> Yes sir. >> Can you identify yourself please?
>> Uh my name is Mie Ericson. I'm at 906 South Neighbors. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Uh so I just had a question. One thing that you had said, one thing that you had said was, you know, the fight the Friday growth isn't necessarily your
focus. Um because people can go elsewhere and it's organic. Um you had said there were other programs, some of them which you had said was the weekend school and the family nights and the classes for adults and then I I think
previously you had said like weddings and celebrations, right? So my question is, we talk a lot about Friday, but with these other events that come about um and getting the new apartment, do you
foresee any problems with tra with traffic or parking or over congestion um with those events since you're growing horizontally as opposed to just on Fridays? I I don't I don't anticipate those being uh impacted just simply
because they're so far off from being a problem right now um that you know I can't imagine they'd you know quadruple in size um you know even with whatever reduced parking uh that would come from the development.
>> And uh my other question was uh I know a lot of people were saying can you think of it other way? Have you ever thought of um trying to find a a parking lot or a location elsewhere and busing the or having like a van, you know, driving the
people in so that there's not so much congestion. It's just a it's it's a thought. >> Yeah. No, no, we we've considered it, right? Uh we have employed it for uh one of our Eid holidays this past year. Uh it went pretty well. Um, you know, generally that that sort of setup is
less ideal for uh, you know, what could potentially be a 5-minute prayer uh, versus, you know, a more protracted uh, service like on Eid mornings, right, where you're there for like an hour. Um, but yeah, you know, it's it's a good suggestion and, you know, if there's a good fit for it, we'll definitely uh,
explore it further. >> And I I would imagine that would be something you might look into for like when you have Ramadan or like a big celebration >> or where there's uh, uh where say my church uh and Ramadan
and end up meeting at have the same time. So you're going to have a lot of traffic and a lot of stuff. I would think >> the busing in or van might be better, >> right? Yep. No, definitely. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Shephus, do you have any further
questions of your witness? >> No, I think he's said enough. >> Okay. I mean that in a good way. >> Understood. talked for over an hour and a half. >> Okay. >> I'm going to fall asleep on the way home. >> All right. You have another witness. >> Yes, we do. >> So, uh the last time we were here, a
question was raised as to existing conditions in the facility as it exists today. So, since the uh last presentation, the project architect prepared a plan. It was submitted to the board about a month or so ago. And uh he's here this evening to talk about
just the existing facility and the square footages and the rooms. So, uh, joining us right now is Mr. Eccardi. He is the project architect. He was previously sworn, placed his credentials on the record. We could certainly reiterate that or we can just remind him
of his oath. >> You understand that you're still under oath, correct? >> And nothing's changed with respect to your licenses. Correct. >> Mr. Carter, you heard my opening comment relative to your presentation here this evening. You were present at the meeting when questions were raised as to the
existing facility. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> And your office has submitted a plan entitled uh I guess existing conditions or an existing conditions plan as to the existing facility. Correct. >> That's correct. >> So why don't you tell us about what this is, what it represents. Maybe you could briefly walk us through the square
footages and tell us about the building as it exists today and uh where the addition is proposed. So I'm looking at drawing uh A7B which is the existing uh first floor.
Sorry for the purposes of this meeting I put larger plans on two boards. I think what you're looking at is both plans on on one uh one sheet. >> Okay. So, the date on the what we're looking at, just to make sure it's the same, is I've got a a date on the
drawing of September 10th, 2025, and a date stamp received September 11th, 2025. It looks like we're looking at the top, >> right? So, we'll start with the the top plan there, which is the upper level. It's a two-level building. Uh the upper
level is approximately 8,500 uh gross square feet. Uh South Fewick Road is to the left hand side of the drawing. Okay. On that uh we have the main entrance uh into a lobby. Uh we have an ablution
room which is a ritual uh cleansing area. Uh we have restrooms and we have a kitchen. Uh going towards the right on the plan we have a community hall, a social hall that is uh approximately 38 feet by 71
ft. In 20 700 square f feet roughly. We have a store room off of that. And then further to the right, we have the main prayer hall, 38 feet by 47 ft. And that's separated from the community hall with a curtain. Off of the main prayer hall, we have the
prayer area. Uh this is one with chairs for people needing uh seats. Uh along the uh other side of the building, there's a hallway that's connecting these rooms uh and leads to a stairway which goes down to the lower level.
>> Mr. Cardi, just for purposes of maintaining a clear record, uh since this is slightly different than the plan set because you broke it up onto separate sheets so that it' be a larger exhibit, would you please mark this? I believe is exhibit A3. I have a up to A2
presently. >> That sounds right to me. and just put today's date on it, please. And then just have to leave that with Nora. >> And just tell us exactly which level A3 represents. >> A3 is the upper level of the existing
building. >> That's correct. >> So I'll go onto the second board here. Uh that as well. >> Wait, before you get to the second board, >> I'm sorry. Is is before we get to the second floor, is the proposed addition
connected through the second floor or the first floor? >> It's connected uh both. >> Okay. Where would it connect on A3? >> On A3, it's on the right hand side of the plan uh on the lower right hand where it says down the stairs to door B.
That's where it's going to connect into the first residential level in the addition. >> Okay. Thank you. Yep. >> U moving to the lower plan on the sheet you have. That's the lower level.
>> Why don't you mark that as A48? >> Uh this lower level. Um I'm going to start with the the right hand side of the plan. Now this is where it connects with the uh the existing building. Um, >> is that ground level? >> That's ground level. That there's a sloping site from South Beverwick Road
down to the parking lot at the rear. >> Okay. So, this is where, if I recall the testimony, maybe your previous testimony, this is where that drop off area is going to be. >> That's correct. That's correct. >> Okay. Where those parking spaces are going to be removed. >> That's correct. >> Okay.
So, on the lower level, you'll be coming through where it says door B into a lower level lobby, and there'll be a stairway up to the uh to the upper level. Um, again, this is existing conditions now, so it's not shown here.
Uh, there will be elevator access in the new addition, so it's fully uh ADA accessible. The majority of the rooms on the lower level are classrooms. There's some utility rooms, there's restrooms, and there's offices. Mr. Cardi, the elevator that's proposed.
Can you show us on exhibit uh A4 where approximately that would be located? >> So where you see on the upper right hand corner of this plan the IBS IBSA office? It's outside of that area. >> Would that elevator be able to be
utilized to provide access to both floors of the existing building? >> Yes, that's correct. >> Is there presently the elevator that serves this building that would enable people to get from one level to another without having to take stairs. >> No, they're not. >> So, in essence, the elevator then would
make this building >> completely completely ADA accessible. Yes. >> Yeah. The building will be uh there will be new elevator in the new addition which will make the building uh ADA accessible. Okay. I don't have anything else for Mr. Party this evening.
>> Um on the A4 there's a notation upper right hand corner outside restroom. Do you know what the purpose of that is? >> Um I know know it's a kind of a recent addition. Maybe the uh the owner of the property can uh testify to that.
>> I have a question. The elevator will be outside of the IBSA office. >> U Yes. Yes. >> Thank you. >> And was there some >> space in the existing building being
kind of repurposed? Is it the two buildings now are joined? >> Uh no. Everything you other than the connection, the lower level lobby on the right hand side of A4 is going to get modified slightly with a new addition is
going to um hook into it. But no, every other room as you see here is going to remain as is. >> Do you know the use of the classrooms when >> uh I do not. No, >> that would be the father. I guess >> that's right. Wasn't there some conversation last time
about elevators and the size of elevators or something? >> There was. >> And whether or not >> it was big enough to fit >> I guess a stretcher. >> Wheelchair. >> Yes, it's it'll be ADA compliant. Wheelchair and stretcher
>> uh sized. >> Okay. >> And Mr. party. I believe there was an intimation from one of the board members as to the location of the elevator and its ability to be accessed from say common areas in the existing building.
Will the elevator be accessible to common areas in the existing building? >> Uh yes, it will be. >> And how's that going to happen? at the the first residential level will be connected to the direct connection uh to the upper level of the existing
building. >> So you said that it's outside of the IBSA office. Could you show us where because it's not on the plan the No, I know the office is there but the elevator. >> Yeah, because this this is existing, right, Mr. Carter? You didn't show that.
>> This is this is existing, right? That just a separate existing. >> Can you point to it where it's going to be? I guess on the non-existent one >> right next to the bathroom. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> So, where's it going to where's it going to end up on A3? The second story.
Where's the elevator going to >> on A3? >> On A3, where's it going to be? >> The elevator is over here and then there's a hallway that connects >> Oh, okay. There's another hallway on the outside of the prayer hall. So that's part of the expansion. >> Right. Gotcha. Okay.
>> What's the total size of the community hall and the main prayer hall put together? >> Well, let's see. The community hall is just to round it up a couple of square feet is 2700 square ft and the the main
prayer hall is say 1790. >> So that's 4,00 a little under 4,500 square ft >> total. Yes. >> And is it your understanding that when that partition is removed, sometimes that entire area is occupied by
worshippers? Correct. >> Um I cannot testify to that. I don't know. My understanding is everything takes place to the right hand side of that curtain in the main prayer hall. >> Well, my understanding of the prior testimony was that the women generally stay on the community hall side and the
men are on the main pray hall side. Is that >> that'll have to be testified. >> Okay. >> To >> just a question. And part of the reason for the floor plan um request was that the app the documents to date which include the site plans, the traffic report and the planners report all
calculate the existing parking requirement based upon uh one space for every three seats. Uh we found out at the last meeting that there are no seats and the ordinance specifically calls for a different calculation to calculate the
required parking. Are we going to see revised documents to calculate it properly? >> That will be testified to uh in another witness. >> Are we going to receive re revised documents? >> I would anticipate I would say yes. Okay.
Any questions from the board? >> Okay, we're going to we're going to do the same. Go. >> Will we have testimony as to the exterior of the proposed building, it look? Are we going to do that later? >> Oh, I did that in my last uh
>> Yeah. I mean, >> okay. Did you have you testified about that since the plans were revised? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Good. >> Yeah. >> Anybody else? >> He could touch on that now. Mr.
Chadwick, there was a color rendering attached to the plan set. So, >> might as well show everybody again. >> It's been a while. [Applause] Oh, yeah. All right. And as that
>> this just to make sure the record's clear, what are we looking at here? >> This is a uh a rendering looking from the uh one second. looking from the uh the south end. Uh
this is the uh excuse me, this is the existing building at the far left of the rendering. Everything from here out is the new construction. >> And that was something that was previously submitted. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And nothing's changed on this. >> Nothing's changed.
>> The only time this changed is when we went from uh three four stories down to three stories. >> Okay. >> And this is a three story that we're looking at. >> That's correct. Two stories. residential over open parking. >> So, the exterior of the proposed
building will be consistent with what the mosque exterior siding. >> Yes, it'll be um stucco and then some um metal panels like the
composite wood panels just for detail. And the existing building is stuckco. and refresh my memory because I can't count that. But how many parking places are there in this drawing underneath the building in your plan?
>> I I don't see a number listed here any place. >> 37 >> approximately 37 >> 37 >> if I miscounted. How do you come up with that number? I'm looking at 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
stalls. >> What sheet are you looking at? >> I'm looking at the same sheet he's got up here. >> Yeah. Look at a the next page. A1, >> right? Is that what you're referring to? A1. >> There's 40. Uh I'm looking at A1. 40
spots underneath the building. 45 >> 40 >> 40 Okay. >> Well, does that include the three at the drop off or you take those off? >> Took those off. >> Okay. I I I'm I'm a little thick tonight. So, this I see there's 40 spots
on this one chart. When I'm looking at this picture though that you're testifying to tonight and I'm looking at the number of stalls bound down there, there are nowhere near 40 stalls. >> That's just an image of a general look at the building. The >> it's an image of a general look of a building without a complete parking picture. The other one
>> the site plan the site plan has the parking. Mr. Walker's site plan has the details on the parking. >> I got that. But why doesn't the picker picture picture show what it will look like? >> Because it's on the site plan. >> Okay.
>> I don't mean to be facitious, but it's a rendering of a building. It's it's supposed to >> the rendering of the building which houses the parking below it is not accurate. >> Yeah. You can't see the parking because it's on the building. >> Right. >> Looking at all the >> on the site plan.
>> Any other any other questions? >> Yeah, I would just ask Mr. Cardi. Now, Mr. Cardi, we know that based on your presentation this evening, exhibits A3 and A4, that the existing building is two levels. Correct. >> That's correct. And the building addition that you're showing here this
evening is three levels. Parking with two residential levels above. Correct. >> Correct. >> Now, how do the roof lines match up as relates to the existing building and the proposed addition? >> The roof lines of the two the addition and the existing building match.
>> Now, how can it be if one's two levels and the other's three levels? >> The um the uh upper level is a double height space in the existing building. So, as it relates to the architectural edifice, when seen from the street, will
the addition protrude above the existing building? >> The only thing that's going to protrude above is the elevator shaft by about 4T. As far as the parking goes, if we have any questions, is this the person who's going to testify?
>> I don't think so. So, I think you're best left to the site engineer who was >> cuz didn't we have a whole thing about that last time >> and then we'll have the traffic engineer as well. >> Okay. >> Um I had a question in my letter of August 7th. Um Mr. Cardi was here last.
He indicated that the uh when questioned about the uh seating in the gathering room which is in the addition the new gathering room had um 88 seats. Um he indicated that um part of the intent of
the gathering room was to provide an area to socialize after the prayer services. Um but on the website it and I believe in our the last witness testified the last meeting uh said that um congregants are urged to leave after
the after the meeting after the service. And I was wondering if that ever got straightened out to which is which here. Do we have 88 seats for people to come in after the meeting or after the services or are we sending people home after the services? >> The next witness will be able to answer that question.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions from our board members? >> Okay. Now is the time again for questions uh from the from the public uh on this witness. Again, we're going to start with uh with Mr. Mills who represents one of uh the uh neighbors.
Go ahead. >> Thank you. And I did forget to thank the board members for their time as always in this very nettlesome case. Uh for the architect, I'm sorry I didn't have an opportunity to really preview the plan that you've
put up there. Starting with the elevation to your right. Is that is that document the same document that's been consistent throughout your presentation? >> Uh yes it has. It's not the one we started with, but I did we didn't get to testify that the meeting was cancelled
and the intern between that meeting and the next, we changed the building from fourstory U-shaped building to three stories. >> All right, that that was my question. So, you've reduced you physically reduced the height and that reduction generated the new elevation? >> That's correct.
>> On which two levels is the residence con connected to the mosque? it. Well, technically all the levels are because you have the elevator, but the the the lower the first residential level is the one that connects directly into the mosque. >> All right. And how are the other two
levels connected? >> Elevator. >> So, the elevator opens to the mosque. >> That's No, the elevator is independent outside of the existing building. It's connected via an outside hallway, a new hallway in the addition. All >> right. Do you have an understanding that
you can pass on to us of what the relationship will be between the residence portion and the mosque portion? And by that I mean is the resident portion going to be sequestered from the mosque or will it be open at all times for residents to
pass back and forth? >> That'll be testified by the owner to by the owner. >> So the doors that you've proposed will be lockable doors. Uh, probably not, unless it's a policy that they need to lock down at a certain point.
>> What changes, if any, and again, forgive my lack of knowledge, occur, are you proposing to the actual mosque itself? >> We are just going to be modifying the existing hallway. The new addition
is to the right of the or to behind the existing building and there's going to be new hallway which connects to the existing hallway. That's the only uh connection. And >> what is why are those modifications proposed >> to permit ADA access between
uh between the addition in the rear and the mosque itself? Does the resident component have sufficient fire egress on a on a standalone basis? >> Yes. >> You've described some amenities in the
resident component. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> And just for my information and edification, those amenities include, did I hear you say a prayer room in the residence? >> Um, there's a a gathering room to have meals
>> or to socialize. um with with you know congregants and and the residents. >> What other amenities would be present in the residential piece? >> Let me just refresh my memory. Uh we have u
laundry on the uh second residential floor. >> Common laundry. >> Are there other common areas proposed in the residence? >> No. Uh there's a trash utility room. There's some uh utility rooms, but a common area for the residents. No, >> just that one. You're talking correct.
>> Would that common area, do you think provide sufficient reason for residents to invite friends over to meet with them and be present, socialize? >> Sure. >> Yeah. So, it might have a propensity to increase the number of visitors to the residential portion. Is that correct?
>> At times, yes. Yeah. And I know that's going to be testified to by the owner, the interaction between the mosque congregants and the residents. >> Would you have an understanding as to why you were directed in your plan to include the common gathering area? >> Uh again, you know, I really would defer
to him for his his testimony. Are there any changes, I'm sorry, the changes that you've described to the mosque as being for purposes of ADA compliance, uh, are they in any way likely to increase attendance at the mosque?
>> Um, no. I would say no. It's going to make attendance easier for those in maybe in a wheelchair, but I don't think it's going to bring people in. >> The elevator structure, it's not does not show on your exterior elevation then, does it? >> That's correct. Is there a reason you chose not to show it?
>> No, it's just, you know, when we do renderings, this one tells the story of the materials and finishes. We typically don't do renderings on all sides of buildings. >> Under local ordinance, would I count the uh additional height of the elevator enclosure in terms of calculating overall height of the structure?
>> No, that's not counted. >> And that's pursuant to local ordinance. >> Yes. Stair bulkheads and and and such are not counted. >> Right. with the uh if I were to count the strike that you indicated that the uh addition what is the let me just
phrase it this way what is the current projected height for the residents in feet existing and proposed top of coping is 32t 7 and 1/4 inch elevation 216.77 and that's taken from the existing
uh lower level of the building of the existing mosque. >> The elevator projection would be an additional 4T. Did you say >> pro? Actually here it's uh I'm sorry 2 foot 8 and 1/4 in. >> I'm sorry >> 2 foot8 and 1/4 in
>> above the 32 feet. >> That's correct. Is the height of the residential piece uh AGL or I saw you use the phraseiology MSL meaning mean sea level? >> I I you know this these spot elevations
and things will have to be uh testified by the civil engineer site engineer. Does the residential component take advantage of a lower elevation of the terrain to the rear of the mosque? >> No, it does not. The the underside of
the building gradually gets larger. The parking area gets taller as you go to the back. >> And you indicated and under questioning from the board that the parking calculations will be gone through by the site engineer. >> Uh yes, site and traffic. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you.
Okay. Are there are there any members of the public that have questions of this witness on the testimony that he has given this evening? Come forward. >> Again, we he he previously testified about the new set of plans. So, please
limit your questions to the testimony that he's provided this evening. And just identify yourself, please. >> Barton Eisenberg, Parrot Drive in Pacity. Um, if I recall the last time
uh three months ago, you had stated that there was an addition of 29 parking spaces and now are you stating 40. Maybe I misunderstood something. >> I didn't real I don't believe I testified to anything with parking last
time. The 40 spaces is just what's under the building. It's not limited to residents in the building. That's just what uh the underside of the open parking can bear in terms of parking spaces. >> Okay. And how many parking spaces will disappear
because it was stated that the building occupies uh parking spaces now? How many parking spaces will disappear? >> I don't have that information because the existing has some 45 degree angled spaces. These are all perpendicular. So I would have to compare the civil
drawings with mine. The only part of the building that is touching and taking away potentially any parking is the is the required stair that needs to come down from the building and and the utility no utility roofs are elsewhere. It's just the stair that
comes down from the upper floors. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Mhm. >> Please identify Lake Hayawata. Uh can you tell me where the uh dumpsters for waste and the
source separation will be uh located in your >> That's all on the civil engineering drawings. >> Civil engineering. >> That's correct. >> Um all right. Okay. Jalpesh Tucker 91 Longport Road Pipe.
So I have a few questions. What studies did you conduct uh before finalizing this design? Any studies? >> We went through a number of options. We had the four stories. We changed the shape a few times. We went to this building. We changed the shape a couple times. So that I mean that's our just
our normal practice in in architecture is to >> and what prompted the changes that you have made? Well, >> versus the prior design that was >> there was a perception that four stories was just not it was just too much for
the property. So, we went down to three. Then we decided, you know, if if this again, this will be testified to later um to bring the residents closer and actually connect them to the building so if there's elderly residents there or people with disabilities that they can
more easily uh go and pray with the buildings connected. So that was kind of the evolution of of the shape of the building to where we are now. >> So you have reduced the height that means the horizontal spread has increased. >> Um I couldn't say that for sure but I do
not think so >> because your apartment count more or less remains the same. >> Yeah. Yes. We never really since we abandoned that first fourstory scheme very early on without even presenting to the public here. Um so I don't I don't
recall the the the comparison. >> So that means your number of parking that were proposed earlier have reduced further. >> I don't have that answer. >> Okay. How many fire trucks can go around the
building? Was that put in mind? >> Probably going to be the site engineer. And and again the testimony that this witness has given has been tonight has been limited to certain things. So if you could limit your question to the testimony that he
>> because the the design is put in place by the architect, right? So I'm sure uh those things were kept in mind. >> Yes, they were very very carefully by the civil engineer >> and we still don't see the parking spots
or how many parking spots. You have not confirmed that count what it's going to be the final count. >> I don't have that. That's not on my plans. My strictly about the building. >> Okay. >> Have you done analysis of yearon-year growth of prayer attendees since it is
opened? >> I'm Can you repeat that question? >> Yearon-year growth on prayer attendees? >> No. Because if you keep fiveyear plan in place with apartment and then the growth that is going to be
anticipated your number of cars how you even plan to >> he didn't testify to any of this and we keep >> I don't understand that. I'm I'm trying to be respectful of the of the members of the public that want to ask questions but as I said his testimony tonight was
very limited. So please keep your questions to the testimony that he gave tonight which was essentially about a drawing that he did with respect to the existing mosque. >> Okay. >> Do you have any questions about that? >> The design
what the design uh purpose for? I mean is it only designed for the prayer meets or the weddings also birthday parties? What all has gone behind this design as a thought?
>> These are pure >> to accommodate this design. >> These are purely residential units. No. Uh because it is going to be attached with the hall. So this design I'm assuming it's going to attached with
your apartment is going to be attached with the hall. >> Correct. >> Right. So if the prayers and the weddings and the birthday parties and everything is going in the hall and with these 28 29
new apartments, has that study been done that what the how this building is going to keep up with everything that you have thought through? This building is 28 residential apartments period. There's no
correlation between the two other than possible socialization after prayer if there's a family member that lives in the residence with a congregant. That's that's what this whole project is about. >> Okay. Thank you. >> 13 and 15.
>> Okay. Again, please limit your question to the testimony that he gave this evening. >> Sure. >> Okay. And just identify yourself. >> Uh Vijay Namoshi narr. >> Okay. So you testified last time as well. Is that correct?
>> I'm sorry. >> You testified last last uh in the last. >> So you're starting your question with you testified last time that. >> So do you understand >> I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but he gave very limited testimony tonight
on two drawings he did with respect to the mosque. Do you have any questions about that? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay, go ahead and ask that question. Okay. So pro uh between your last testimony and current today's testimony uh is there any
excuse me >> what's your question about tonight's testimony? >> I'm asking trying to ask the question. >> I haven't heard it. >> Okay. So between your last testimony and today's testimony exactly what has changed? Uh I'm a leave man. So could you elaborate on that please?
>> Nothing has changed. this building, the existing building that I testified to last time has not changed at all. All I did was go in and measure the existing building because some of these square footage is have impacts on the amount of parking spaces which will be testified
to at a later date. >> So in in that keeping that in mind, what is the purpose of uh your testimony today? >> Can can I can I hop in? So last time he was here, we asked him what the current
state of the inside of the Islamic Center was. He came with the plans of the existing building to show us because that was asked of him last time. So that's what his testimony tonight has been. That's his purpose for being here tonight. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. Ma'am, do you have a question about his testimony this evening? >> I do. Okay. Joanne Fisher, please identify yourself. >> Joanne Fischer, 872 South Beverick Road. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, how long do you think it will take to evacuate 28 people that could possibly be
handicapped if there's one elevator? >> That's I I have no idea. I'm sorry. We We are code compant We are code compliant with all of our egresses, our two stairs, our fire ratings, fire separations, and elevator and total
compliance with all >> for one per for one trip down one person. Okay, that's it. Thank you. >> You have you have can you identify yourself, please? >> Yes. My name is Hank Heler and I live in
Porony and I was I heard the gentleman that that um that testified earlier saying that the mosque was was a was non- taxed and the this this these doiciles will be a taxed entity. And I'm
just wondering if by connecting the two buildings, will that cause that to lose that that um that tax ability is is that is that something that that has to be thought about? >> Is that is that within your area of expertise? Not my expert.
>> No, I'm thinking maybe the attorney that's sitting next to him might be >> I could address it because it was contained in a letter from Daniel Cassiss, the tax assessor, and I spoke to him about his memo was submitted to the board. And in essence, what he anticipates doing is leaving the tax
exemption on the mosque section and imposing a taxable uh ratio or assessment on this residential component. He will utilize uh rents in the area uh for the uh basis upon which
those uh taxes will be based. So the residential component will be taxed and this other section will not be taxed. >> Thank you for your help. Appreciate Okay, Mr. Sheepus, do you have another witness you want to start tonight? >> Seeing nobody else, uh, Mr. Co Carr is
here this evening to provide his testimony and, uh, perhaps we can get started with him or >> is I I would just note that it's 9:30. We have a hard stop at 10:00. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> We have a hard stop at 10. I'll leave it
up to you. He clearly is going to have to come back. I doubt we're going to get it through with him in a half an hour. So, I'll leave it up to you as to whether you want to start them and bring them back or whether you want to just bring them fresh at the next time. >> Could I take a twominut recess? >> You can take a two-minute recess.
>> Thank you. I'm trying to explain to you. We have one meeting. >> Okay, Mr. Sheff is back. >> Yes, thank you. >> Well, and considering the fact that the presentation this evening will have to be continued and rather than starting a
witness and then having to have him come back, my suspicion is if even if we did that, he'd probably have to start his testimony all over again. So it would seem to make practical sense to start fresh at the next available meeting rather than starting stopping and having to start again.
>> I think that's uh I think that's appreciated Mr. Choice rather than have it disjointed. >> Understood. >> So I guess the next question is when would be the next time that we could come back. >> We're probably going to have to do the same thing we've done previously which is a regular meeting to announce
>> call the board and see what's available what dates are available. So December 3rd uh would be the announcement of the new date and new location at 7:30. >> December 3rd. >> Yes. >> And that would be at the municipal
building 1001 for Sipony Boulevard. >> Correct. >> So I'd ask that this uh notice be preserved and carried to the board's next regular meeting of December 3rd, 2025, 7:30 p.m. at the Precipany Municipal Building, 101 Precipany
Boulevard. And you're going to grant all extensions, correct? >> Yes. I grant an extension of time for the board to act until December 31st, 2025. >> And you need a we need a motion for that. >> May we have a motion, please? >> Move. >> Second.
>> Vote, please. >> Please. >> Oh, I apologize. >> We don't need a roll call. You just do an all favor. >> All in favor? >> All in favor? >> I >> against I want to thank everybody for their time and consideration. And I know this is a special meeting, so thank you. Your time is precious and we appreciate
it. >> So if if you didn't understand what's happening, the December 3rd date is just to announce the next date. Okay? Not to hear the case, just to announce the next date. >> This many people
>> motion to adjurnn. >> Motion need a second on that. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> I That's not